#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 12 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:03 AM Cromaglious__: rpi3 running a 5" touch screen
01:12 AM jesseg: how cool is that
01:26 AM niggold: VOISE 2018, the battle continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01:26 AM niggold: livecoin.net
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01:27 AM niggold: As the drillers don't stop drilling until they strike black gold
01:27 AM niggold: in the blood soaked streetz of America
01:27 AM niggold: land of the free, home of the brave
01:27 AM niggold: I'm out with the Boozie Badazz - Wake Up!
01:27 AM niggold: my niggaz!
01:27 AM niggold: my savagez!
01:59 AM Deejay: moin
02:00 AM jesseg: Good Morning Deejay
02:05 AM Deejay: good morning, gents
02:10 AM SpeedEvil: 'We could do a sane informative headline' - naah https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/01/11/2123259/hackers-could-blow-up-factories-using-smartphone-apps
02:11 AM gloops: who wrote the new 2.8 axis/joint program?
02:14 AM gloops: nobody seems to have ever used 2 motors together,not that comes here anyway
02:39 AM gloops: runnig over this in my mind again, no jogging until motors homed, so the only possible action on startup is to home X,Xx
02:48 AM archivist: there is a user in here running it at a hackspace on a large gantry
02:50 AM archivist: <seb_kuzminsky> sim/axis/gantry works fine in master
02:51 AM gloops: hmm, will have to keep an eye out for him, never seen him speak in the channel
02:52 AM gloops: it might work without any problems anyway
02:55 AM gloops: would be nice to have an idea/see how this twin homing works, if i get it going ill make a vid
02:56 AM archivist: I thought the docs showed how it works reasonably
02:57 AM gloops: ive not looked for a few weeks, i looked before but didnt come away with a clear idea, the files load and everything, i just couldnt try the homing with no switches
02:58 AM archivist: it needs the switches to home a gantry
02:58 AM gloops: the motors are going to have to run together even when only one is homing, then switch the lead over to the other motor, then run as a pair when homed
02:58 AM gloops: something like that
03:00 AM gloops: im going to set the switches with a small distance between to start, a few inches travel maybe, nothing can go disasterously wrong then
04:46 AM jthornton: gloops: dgarr wrote joint axis
04:46 AM jthornton: I've used it, very simple
05:00 AM gloops: jthornton good to know, how do the 2 motors home?
05:01 AM nallar is now known as Ross
05:01 AM jthornton: they both home at the same time and after both home then they make a synchronized move to the home offset
05:02 AM gloops: ok, i cant get my head round how that goes, if 1 hits switch it doesnt stop stop searching? they both go on inividually, to home
05:03 AM gloops: lol, im jut imaginig the ganty rocking back and forth as they both move opposite ways, i suppose the distance isnt enough to matter
05:03 AM archivist: I would say re read it a couple of times
05:04 AM gloops: i will when the time comes
05:04 AM archivist: the time has come!
05:04 AM gloops: the time is long gone
05:04 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OtWNuLWfwc
05:05 AM gloops: almost got screws back fitted
05:05 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNLd6A34Vo
05:05 AM gloops: oh i see...:)
05:06 AM gloops: so one hits switch then waits, thats clever
05:07 AM jthornton: all it take to set up is adding a - to the ini file in the correct place
05:08 AM gloops: ive done that already, got hal and ini files to load, just no machine with switches to test it on yet
05:08 AM gloops: ive given up predicting when it will be ready, sometime next week hopefully
05:09 AM jthornton: woke up this morning and a blob was on the handrail of the deck, Henry made a dash up at dark and roosted there
05:09 AM gloops: how come he left anyway?
05:09 AM jthornton: I tossed him out
05:10 AM gloops: causing trouble?
05:11 AM jthornton: yea, he was attacking everyone that came in the chicken yard and my aggressive behavior to him was making the pullets scared of me
05:12 AM gloops: lol, im not sure what causes that but ive had it, my mrs wouldnt go near them at times
05:13 AM archivist: one imagines an Aardman films production
05:13 AM jthornton: I guess I'll let him back in this morning and see if his attitude changed or not
05:14 AM gloops: i think it passes if i remember right, ive had a few very painful whacks on the legs though, once theyve done it youre always wary, a bloke here got a spr stuck in his face where a cockerel whacked him while he was bent down
05:15 AM gloops: they go straight through the flesh
05:17 AM archivist: bespoke egg stamp came quick arrived yesterday
05:17 AM jthornton: that is quick
05:18 AM archivist: I was surprised at the service
05:20 AM jthornton: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/barn-inspired-urban-chicken-tractor.1216119/
05:20 AM archivist: apparently someone with a egg printing machine was charging him £1 per tray to stamp them
05:20 AM jthornton: some of the shit people build for chickens is funny
05:20 AM jthornton: damn that cuts into the profit pretty hard
05:21 AM jthornton: fresh eggs sell for $2 a dozen around here
05:23 AM archivist: hence he wanted a cheaper method bespoke stamp 15.88, 16 trays and in profit
05:23 AM archivist: his crowd a laying 200 a day ish
05:23 AM jthornton: nice
05:24 AM jthornton: mine are up to 6 a day, 3 left to start laying
05:24 AM XXCoder: 2bucks a dozen. here its bit more
05:24 AM XXCoder: 4 bucks? havent needed to buy raw eggs for long while lol
05:24 AM XXCoder: I usually buy pre-boiled eggs. $10 but then I dont need to cook and peel. woth all that money :P
05:25 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: I want a nice high power ultrasound cleaner I can just drop boiled eggs into
05:25 AM SpeedEvil: And it removes the shell
05:25 AM XXCoder: to deshell em?
05:25 AM SpeedEvil: yeah
05:26 AM XXCoder: ah well theres that vingear trick I never tried
05:26 AM SpeedEvil: If you like vinegary eggs.
05:26 AM jthornton: after a while they break lol
05:26 AM XXCoder: not THAT much!
05:26 AM * SpeedEvil wonders about his 30W LASER that's on the way.
05:26 AM XXCoder: unless you can taste one spoonful of it, in boiled water then dumped away
05:27 AM SpeedEvil: ah
05:31 AM XXCoder: saw flags half staff
05:31 AM nallar is now known as Ross
05:31 AM XXCoder: what happened?
05:32 AM archivist: Trump admitted he is an idiot
05:32 AM XXCoder: the shithole comment?
05:32 AM XXCoder: that caused halfstaff flags?
05:33 AM archivist: ask your local flag waver
05:33 AM XXCoder: only one I know of is that GIANT flah
05:33 AM XXCoder: and I dont know who owns that heh
05:35 AM SpeedEvil: Or do you mean the embassy one
05:35 AM XXCoder: I didnt read anything about emnbassy?
05:37 AM SpeedEvil: He cancelled a visit to the UK because he's upset about the embassy being sold for peanuts and moved by obama (the US never owned the land the embassy was on, and the decision was made by Bush)
05:38 AM XXCoder: geez!
05:38 AM archivist: and what they did sell covered the costs
05:39 AM XXCoder: hes an flaming moron
05:41 AM Tom_L: 10°F
05:42 AM jthornton: 22°F we will get the teens tonight
05:42 AM XXCoder: wow nice invention, seabin
05:43 AM Tom_L: fixed my pendant last night
05:43 AM Tom_L: was a bad FPGA pin
05:43 AM Tom_L: no idea why it gave up
05:45 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1debYHeAHWM
05:45 AM XXCoder: its surpising simple design
05:46 AM jthornton: damn gimp is so broken now in linux I have to use windoze to edit photos
05:46 AM XXCoder: use gimp with wine?
05:46 AM XXCoder: I use pinta. its linux version of paint.net
05:48 AM jthornton: no, on a windoze pc
05:48 AM XXCoder: oh paint.net then heh. its not found at paint.net domain, though may have changed since
05:49 AM jthornton: gimp is fine on windoze
05:49 AM XXCoder: hmm maybe try uninstall purge gimp on linux
05:49 AM XXCoder: then reinstall
05:50 AM jthornton: it's not an install issue it's a silly programmers issue
05:50 AM XXCoder: oh whats wrong with it
05:51 AM jthornton: the interface sucks big time now in linux and you can't save a png file you have to export it and on and on and on
05:51 AM XXCoder: oh yeah gimp defaults to its own format now
05:51 AM XXCoder: it supports layering so on but yeah
05:51 AM archivist: the exporting has been around a very long time as you are losing info
05:51 AM jthornton: hmm pinta has no right click menu :(
05:52 AM XXCoder: yeah its between gimp and paint in complexity
05:52 AM XXCoder: its good enough for me to edit stuff
05:52 AM jthornton: in ubuntu 10.04 you didn't have to export a png that you opened just to save it
05:52 AM XXCoder: typically making more kindle paperwhite screensaver pics
05:52 AM archivist: mine is older and have to export!
05:53 AM jthornton: must have been an update at some point
05:53 AM jthornton: anyway windblows version works fine
05:53 AM archivist: 2.4.5
05:54 AM archivist: 2007
05:54 AM jthornton: 2.8.10
05:54 AM archivist: internal format has transparency which many dont
05:55 AM jthornton: hmm gotta get suited up and go rescue Henry from the handrail... I hope I don't bust my ass in the snow
05:55 AM XXCoder: belt and pillow ;)
05:56 AM XXCoder: oh talking about chickens
05:56 AM XXCoder: peta said that kid eating chicken will make penis small
05:57 AM jthornton: lol
05:57 AM XXCoder: funny how they assume all children is males. of course you hope your female child penis is so tiny it dont exist!
05:58 AM XXCoder: stupid people eating tasty animals group
05:58 AM XXCoder: oops people for ethical treatement of animals. mixed em up ;)
06:10 AM archivist: jthornton, by the way the export only happens if you (accidently) added transparency, some of the rotates and transforms will do that
06:12 AM jthornton: on my version all you have to do is open a png or jpg and try to save it
06:19 AM gloops: with gimp if you want to save in different formats its export as
06:20 AM jthornton: I don't want to save in a different format than I opened...
06:20 AM XXCoder: heh I just use pinta :P
06:20 AM jthornton: with gimp in windozwe you open a jpg and it saves as a jpg
06:20 AM jthornton: I just use windblows gimp
06:21 AM gloops: well a bit of tweaking with screws to do, then got to go out, sht i could have had this stage done today
06:22 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: psst, find your camera for miss0r
06:22 AM archivist: pics or it didnt happen
06:23 AM gloops: i hve posted a few pics earlier on, lol, i didnt really want to post pics until it was ready to go, ill get some when the motors are on, maybe tommorrow or sunday
06:24 AM archivist: or next year :)
06:24 AM gloops: its handsome machine, built in the british style, no unnecessary baubles or work done on it
06:26 AM gloops: it wont be long, its difficult to explain but its taking a long time to do little bits, if you take something off or move it you have to put it back and re-level everything etc
06:27 AM XXCoder: sounds like reprap printer lol
06:27 AM XXCoder: look at it wrong and you gonna level bed again
06:28 AM archivist: it looks at you and twists a bit
06:29 AM gloops: well its all finely adjusted, you take a few bolts out its gone
06:29 AM gloops: i cant have the base bolted down level because ive had to move it around to get at certain parts
06:30 AM gloops: drilling a couple of holes can take an hour after all that
06:31 AM jthornton: taper pins...
06:31 AM gloops: its nearly all done now anyway
06:34 AM jthornton: we'll see what the pullets think of the snow at sunrise lol
06:36 AM MarcelineVQ: you're sure havin fun with those birds :D
06:37 AM jthornton: it's interesting for sure
08:41 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:07 AM archivist: ew a rip off of the NPL bench micrometer and not copied well https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122909792245
09:07 AM archivist: lacks the pressure/fudicial device
11:23 AM Connor: Hey guys.. Someone was saying that the inspectors might have a issue with my Mill in the maker space having a Rubber style power cord instead of a MC or Crush proof one.. can anyone speak to that? I'm not hardwiring it in.. It's on a plug.. So, I think that nullifies that requirement..
11:24 AM MarcelineVQ: sounds like you best pull out the regs for your local area
11:25 AM MarcelineVQ: see what your maker space counts as and what that means for you, is there people at the space that might know, given that they've got gear set up there?
11:25 AM Connor: No electricians..
11:25 AM Connor: and they would have to be licensed in the City.
11:26 AM Connor: but you can't put a plug on MC or Liquid Tight.. So.. I'm not sure what that's about..
11:26 AM archivist: with a lead it is a portable appliance here
11:27 AM Connor: It's portable.. in that we can put a pallet jack under it and move it. :)
11:28 AM Connor: * 2011 edition of the National Electrical Code
11:28 AM Connor: * 2012 International Building Code
11:29 AM archivist: does the place class as a factory/workspace or a volunteer place
11:29 AM Connor: That, I don't know. It's a commercial space is all I can say.
11:30 AM Connor: I don't think it's considered a factory..
11:31 AM cradek: really neat pencil manufacturing photos: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/magazine/inside-one-of-americas-last-pencil-factories.html
11:33 AM archivist: one of the "how its made" series covered pencil making
11:35 AM jym: archivist: That episode was kinda interesting
11:36 AM archivist: may be the same factory, I recognise the half stage in a block
11:52 AM ziper: what is an MC
11:53 AM MarcelineVQ: metal clad, a class of cable sheathing
11:53 AM ziper: ah
11:54 AM archivist: armoured over here
12:24 PM Cromaglious__: rpi3 wiyh touch screen is running stableably, range exenders are doing thier job
12:25 PM Cromaglious__: Alexa is working well
12:38 PM gloops: gantry homing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNLd6A34Vo
12:38 PM gloops: these 2 switches, are wired as normally open right?
12:39 PM gloops: yeah, im just wondering, when the switches in the video are tripped it holds them
12:40 PM gloops: so 2 switches closed seperately wired will do it
12:40 PM roycroft: plus, if you wire them nc then you can daisy-chain the circuit and only tie up two pins on your controller, whereas if they're no you have to home run every limit switch
12:41 PM roycroft: even if you're still using one pair of pins on the controller, you have to parallel wire the circuit
12:41 PM gloops: true roy, but these motors are on the same axis, would that make a difference..
12:41 PM gloops: it wont know which one hit
12:41 PM roycroft: you want to fault if you reach any limit switch, anywhere, right?
12:41 PM roycroft: that's true
12:41 PM roycroft: you do lose that forensic data
12:42 PM roycroft: well, you don't lose it, you just never generate it
12:42 PM roycroft: but that's a separate issue
12:42 PM gloops: thats what i mean - it doesnt back off the switch and close it again, it holds it
12:42 PM roycroft: but you can still wire each switcg individualy if you want that kind of data
12:43 PM roycroft: it's still safer to wire them nc
12:43 PM gloops: see if i can explain, im probably looking at it wrong
12:43 PM roycroft: if you cut the signal cable or it gets disconnected and yo are using no switches, you never know
12:44 PM gloops: if a switch is held down, does that keep it open?
12:44 PM roycroft: you would generally use a momentary contact switch
12:45 PM roycroft: if it's nc, then as long as the swtich is engaged, the circuit is open
12:45 PM gloops: so you press the switch, the contact clicks and springs back, even though you keep it held down
12:45 PM roycroft: when you back off and disengate the switch, it closes again
12:45 PM roycroft: no
12:45 PM gloops: right
12:45 PM roycroft: it engages as long as you hold it
12:45 PM gloops: so X has 2 switches, 1 for each motor
12:45 PM roycroft: only when you back off the switch does it close again
12:46 PM roycroft: at least that's the case with all the switches i've ever seen used as limit switches
12:46 PM gloops: X starts homing, if the 2 switches on the same circuit, X1 switch triggers and stays open, - we cant stop X2
12:47 PM roycroft: again, that's a differnt issue
12:47 PM roycroft: and it doesn't matter if you're using no or nc switches
12:47 PM roycroft: put them in separate circuits if you need that kind of granularity
12:47 PM MarcelineVQ: you don't ahve to daisychain NC switches gloops, that's just a nice feature
12:47 PM roycroft: right
12:47 PM gloops: thats what im saying, the vid link, the first switch is held open, its got to be seperate circuits
12:47 PM roycroft: that's what i'm saying
12:47 PM roycroft: you can home run all your nc switches
12:48 PM gloops: you would need to for dual motors on an axis
12:48 PM roycroft: although i would, at the very least, daisy chain all the switches for a particular motor
12:48 PM roycroft: my point regarding circuit design is that with nc switches you *can* daisy chain, whereas with no switches you cannot
12:49 PM gloops: yes
12:49 PM roycroft: but you are not *required* to daisy chain nc switches
12:49 PM gloops: all the rest i will run on same circuit
12:49 PM roycroft: i was originally discussing nc vs no from a safety point of view
12:49 PM roycroft: and i contend that nc circuits are safer than no circuits
12:50 PM roycroft: so i would make the nc vs. no decision based on that
12:50 PM roycroft: and then decide on whether i need a discrete circuit for each limit switch, or if it's ok to daisy chain some/all of them
12:51 PM gloops: the switches on X with 2 motors ill wire seperate nc, the rest all on one nc loop, save the input pins where possible
12:51 PM roycroft: if that is what works for you, it sounds good :)
12:53 PM roycroft: and btw, if someone has a legitimate reason to use no as opposed to nc, (i have these in my pocket is not a legitimate reason), i'd love to hear it
12:53 PM MarcelineVQ: "the dc being active all the time is eroding my terminals"
12:53 PM roycroft: sure
12:53 PM MarcelineVQ: hehe
12:53 PM roycroft: learn how to terminate your wires properly :P
12:55 PM roycroft: and if there's a concern about emi, differential circuits should help with that, or shielded cables
12:55 PM roycroft: and if emi *is* an issue, then detecting the switch closure would be unreliable
12:59 PM Crom: only problem with n/C switches I get is vibrations opening them. need a small capacitor to eat the openings
01:06 PM gloops: ill only need 1 switch per axis (well motor) the limits can be set with g53
02:29 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: anyone ever seen an off the shelf bag sealing machine that has a rolling hot head vs a clamp?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: so you could seal a tube vs just the end of a bag
02:32 PM Crom_: There 22" touch screen working
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: length of tube
02:33 PM Crom_: CaptHindsight: just commercial units, brass heated whel
02:33 PM Crom_: wheel
02:34 PM Crom_: basically a temp controlled iron with a brass wheel
02:35 PM Crom_: against another wheel
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: Crom_: yeah, that would do it
02:49 PM gloops: making one?
02:50 PM gloops: you can get core heater plugs or bands to heat a wheel easy, a lot of things in the plastic industry use an oily paper over the heads to stop melted plastic sticking, looks a bit like baking paper
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: try to buy before make, usually due to lack of time
02:52 PM gloops: agree 1000%
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: looking at ways to seal a LDPE tube made from 1mil (25um) film
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: continuously along its length
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: 5mm dia (~1/4)
02:57 PM gloops: it wont be a tube anymore
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-StPRPsps6A only I'd load it with film folded in half many many meters (yards) long
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: it will make the tube from continuous film
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: well many thousands of feet long
02:59 PM gloops: oh youre making a tube
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: yeah since nobody makes them this size
03:01 PM gloops: i think a machine to do that would be a bit challenging, alignment etc
03:01 PM gloops: to make
03:02 PM MarcelineVQ: sounds like a fun project, what would be the plan for collecting the created tube?
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: it's like a web printer
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: tape recorder/player
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: supply and take-up reel
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: tensioners etc
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: instead of recording head you have the rolling heaters that press the film and heat seal them
03:03 PM MarcelineVQ: would the take-up also be what's driving the material through the machine?
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: you measure tension along the path
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: adjust speed for take up as you go as well as the feed reel
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: we make inkjets like this for labels
03:05 PM MarcelineVQ: I guess with thin films you'd be forced to synchronize rather than letting material dictate
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: rolls of labels 1-5' wide
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, just measure the tension and keep it where it needs to be
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't have to be too fast, 1"/sec
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: not making millions of miles of this
03:06 PM MarcelineVQ: still, lots of thought to make something up for it, what's it for?
03:06 PM MarcelineVQ: the tubing
03:07 PM Crom_: in the plastic bag mill, to make a bag bigger than the machine can blow, they slit it open and use folding rods like for folding newsprint.
03:08 PM Crom_: they then roll a heated brass wheel to join the 2 edges, actually 2 sets one for each side
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: special lab water, the tube is for maximizing the surface area
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: vs using a plastic bag
03:09 PM Crom_: they allow a bit of 9verlap to handle variations
03:10 PM gloops: artificial arteries for specialist cat brain surgeons
03:10 PM MarcelineVQ: some people really like their pets gloops
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: nothing that elaborate, you'd grow those out of tissue
03:10 PM MarcelineVQ: though I happen to know cats are cheap to get new
03:11 PM MarcelineVQ: much cheaper than dogs and dogs don't last as long and take more maintenance, it's an odd system this pet thing
03:12 PM gloops: sentimental value though
03:12 PM gloops: vets love putting wheels on cats for people
03:12 PM gloops: (whos pets are insured)
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: heating and cooling a tube of water quickly of finite volume
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: ~1L
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: https://youtu.be/EaGH1eKfvC0?t=56s but with higher volumes vs those little vials
03:19 PM JT-Shop: yea the weekend has started
03:21 PM gloops: another 30 years weekends wont exist
03:21 PM JT-Shop: and I won't care lol
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: 3 mondays per wek?
03:22 PM gloops: the last generation of working humans has already been born
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: so there will just be ruler humans and food source humans?
03:23 PM gloops: monday - moonday
03:23 PM gloops: i guess there'll be machines, machine owners, and everyone else
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: according to Idiocracy we should be getting a wrestler/body builder ruler soon
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: what will these machines be doing?
03:24 PM MarcelineVQ: memeing
03:24 PM gloops: thing is, a machine is better at making decisions than an owner, on anything, including what machines should be doing
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: so maybe just machines and then everybody else?
03:25 PM gloops: whats the point of everyone else?
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: fun
03:25 PM MarcelineVQ: some people really like their pets gloops
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: like gods do
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: made us for chuckles and watch
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: watch over, scare, play with
03:27 PM gloops: stimulating the pleasure centres of 10 billion human beings just for the sake of it seems an awful wasteful deployment of technology
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: yeah that whole bible thing never made sense anyway
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: so machines on earth, the rest go to Mars
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: or do we move the machines to mars
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: before they take over the earth?
03:30 PM gloops: the machines will logically conclude that they have insufficient information to make important decisions, and that the only way to get that information is to relentlessly pursue more technology
03:31 PM gloops: and that anything which presents a threat to the development of that technology can justifably be exterminated
03:31 PM MarcelineVQ: isn't relentless persuit and important decision?
03:31 PM MarcelineVQ: *an
03:31 PM gloops: its the only conclusion logic can ever reach - we need more information
03:32 PM MarcelineVQ: so what we need is to provide the machines with nonsense axioms?
03:32 PM JT-Shop: will the machines dream?
03:33 PM gloops: giving machines directives becomes increasingly difficult as they become more intelligent - they will out think you
03:34 PM gloops: JT-Shop unlikely they dont sleep
03:35 PM roycroft: they can always daydream
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: what if the machines catch a virus?
03:35 PM gloops: nobody knows why humans dream anyway, or even what a dream is
03:35 PM phipli: evening
03:36 PM MarcelineVQ: it's practice gloops, there isn't some deep mystery
03:36 PM gloops: Capt i suppose infected units will be instantly isolated and destroyed
03:36 PM JT-Shop: hey
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: will teen age machines go at it like rabbits making more machines?
03:36 PM phipli: JT-Shop, surely they'll dream of electric sheep
03:36 PM JT-Shop: of course
03:36 PM gloops: Marcel you are everyone and everything in your dream
03:36 PM roycroft: if they become infected with a virus we'll just send them back to haiti or africa
03:36 PM JT-Shop: got another pullet stepping up to the plate today, got 7 eggs
03:37 PM JT-Shop: not one peep from Henry all day after spending last night on the deck handrail in the snow
03:38 PM phipli: Mars colonies and robots? When did Philip K Dick join the channel?
03:38 PM gloops: he's still the daddy - he just doesnt know where to find grain without you heh
03:38 PM phipli: We only got 2 eggs today
03:39 PM MarcelineVQ: phipli: what if what awaits you under that red soil are the slumbering robots of ages past? dreaming they are spiders weaving platinum webs
03:39 PM phipli: :)
03:39 PM gloops: the machines will kill us all, they probably preserve some dna, all biological life is a complete waste of resources
03:40 PM phipli: JT-Shop, he's a daft bird
03:40 PM phipli: (Henry, not JT)
03:40 PM gloops: life was just a random occurence, a roll of the cosmic dice, rolled thousands of times a second over billion years
03:40 PM MarcelineVQ: it's not a waste, in the same way as galaxies need generations of stars to produce complex elements technology needs generations of machines too, carbon-based ones just happened to form here fastest
03:40 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:40 PM MarcelineVQ: if we invent the next step that too is the universal progress
03:40 PM phipli: gloops, if it hadn't happened, we wouldn't be here to consider it
03:41 PM phipli: life is a certainty - given that we exist, what is the probability that we exist.
03:41 PM MarcelineVQ: maybe humans and machines exist just to invent more and more interesting elements :>
03:41 PM gloops: Marcel correct, the culmination of biology was technology, technomemes, we are now almost irrelevant
03:42 PM gloops: phipli its probably unlikely that we exist as we think we exist
03:43 PM MarcelineVQ: gloops: while true that's not a particularly useful thing, our brains are blind to themselves, the observer can only look outwards
03:44 PM phipli: gloops, perception is reality when it is all you have
03:44 PM MarcelineVQ: blind enough to not be able to see that there isn't even an observer, so that's fun, and completley un-useful
03:44 PM gloops: a famous physicist pointed out that humans are mere denizens of middle world
03:44 PM phipli: there is nobody that can contradict your own reality
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: what if we discover that some metal illness is actually inward looking?
03:45 PM MarcelineVQ: CaptHindsight: put that way it could be quite common
03:46 PM gloops: i dont know any of you exist, this might be a dream, you could all be constructs of my own mind, like everything else, this keyboard
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: I'm more from the perception is reality camp vs the other way around
03:46 PM roycroft: all i know is that i could save a lot of money if i could just dream about a bridgeport-class cnc machine and have that dream be reality
03:46 PM phipli: gloops, therefore we have not responsibility for our actions - it is all your fault
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: I blame most things on gloops anyway :)
03:46 PM phipli: then we're agreed
03:47 PM phipli: it is gloops fault
03:47 PM MarcelineVQ: so the solution was easy to find it turns out
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: reality is a democracy
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: or at least a tyranny of the majority
03:48 PM gloops: archivist will hand g-code all this into a meta-cnc routine which will mill the blueprint for the cosmological equation
03:49 PM MarcelineVQ: omy
03:54 PM Deejay: gn8
04:04 PM Contract_Pilot: Sup
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: Wind/Unwind Machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1V3p9_vPQk
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_yXQvYdFj4 place the heater sealer wheels in the middle and form a tube from plastic film
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: fold the film in two
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: seal along the edge
04:26 PM gloops: how about extruding?
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: 1mil wall is too thin
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: and 1" dia tube is the smallest dia tube they can blow mold
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: 1/4" dia with 1 mil wall is the target
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: tube/sleeve
05:13 PM pcw_mesa_ is now known as pcw_mesa
06:54 PM phipli: someone got me two of these for christmas : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmF3Fz4Y9kI
06:54 PM phipli: (not my video)
06:58 PM XXCoder: whats ut usefd for?
07:02 PM phipli: VU meters
07:03 PM phipli: just finished soldering the first one up
07:06 PM XXCoder: VU?
07:07 PM XXCoder: you mean, UV ultravoilet light or?
07:07 PM Tom_shop: no, VU meter
07:07 PM Tom_shop: bar meter
07:07 PM MarcelineVQ: says in the description XXCoder :>
07:07 PM XXCoder: oh missed. reading
07:08 PM XXCoder: oh interesting
07:19 PM phipli: yeah sorry - like the level LEDs on an audio amp
07:21 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:38 PM XXCoder: So, recently Anchorage, alaska was warmer than tacoma, which is lots of miles south of it
07:38 PM XXCoder: broke record by 2.1f.
08:02 PM phipli: night folks
09:39 PM XXCoder: holy fuck, https://youtu.be/4h-XOckOwN8
09:39 PM XXCoder: those guys is morons
09:40 PM SpeedEvil: Morons with 6 million views on a monetised video
09:40 PM XXCoder: yep though in least real people lol
09:41 PM XXCoder: theres apparently tons of fake comics generating millions of views
09:46 PM Jymmm: They DONT make someone laugh?
09:47 PM XXCoder: in some or even most case, nope. check this (I dont know how true the robot generated part is, but definitely very strange) https://www.fastcompany.com/40492370/creepy-disney-knockoff-videos-are-saturating-kids-youtube
09:48 PM XXCoder: oh specifically this https://medium.com/@jamesbridle/something-is-wrong-on-the-internet-c39c471271d2 sorry kinda wrong link
09:49 PM XXCoder: it starts off just bit strange to very offbeat
09:50 PM XXCoder: 17 million videos of just "finger family" trope
09:50 PM XXCoder: crazy
09:52 PM Jymmm: 25M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqr46XZhtRg
09:53 PM Jymmm: Did you note the "ABC Kids" branding =)
09:54 PM Jymmm: The fucked up parents shove shove it in front of their kid to shut them the hell up =)
09:54 PM XXCoder: that may well be orginial. that account has less than millions of video..
09:54 PM XXCoder: like I said, 17 million
09:54 PM Jymmm: Eh, ppl like beiber too
09:55 PM XXCoder: yt nuked TONS of video, thats why many of that article videos dont work now
09:55 PM Jymmm: YAY????
09:57 PM XXCoder: anyway on unrelated note
09:57 PM XXCoder: theres more and more battery packs that have ac output
09:57 PM XXCoder: made me wonder how long could those run, say 27000 mAH at 100w
09:57 PM XXCoder: ismnt watts amp per hour?
09:58 PM XXCoder: er amp in a hour I mean
09:58 PM XXCoder: ie 1w is one amp for a hour
09:58 PM enleth: XXCoder: more like - highly simplified - volt-amp per hour
09:59 PM enleth: you need to know the voltage to convert between Wh and mAh
09:59 PM XXCoder: so suppose battery pack is 27 aH, and I run tv say, off it, at 100w
09:59 PM XXCoder: how long would it last heh
09:59 PM enleth: can't say without knowing the voltage
09:59 PM XXCoder: standard ac of 120v
10:00 PM Wolf__: its fuzzy
10:00 PM enleth: ah, a battery pack with an integrated inverter
10:00 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:00 PM Wolf__: because you need to count in the losses of the inverter
10:00 PM enleth: this, probably 85-95%
10:00 PM XXCoder: yeah im talking about "ideal" stuff
10:02 PM enleth: well, 100W at 120V is 0.8A
10:03 PM enleth: 27/0.8 is 33.75
10:03 PM enleth: take note of the units, they cancel each other out nicely
10:03 PM roycroft: so it will last 15 hours after efficiency loss
10:03 PM XXCoder: pretty good.
10:04 PM enleth: 27 [A*h] divided by 0.8 [A] leaves hours
10:04 PM roycroft: and that is only when the battery is brand new
10:04 PM enleth: the battery might be more or less efficent depending on the load too
10:04 PM XXCoder: yeah my kindle pw battery only lasts week and half now
10:04 PM enleth: as in, it might be designed to supply loads in a specific power range optimally
10:04 PM Wolf__: and that is figuring that the battery specs are BS lol
10:05 PM Wolf__: aren’t*
10:05 PM roycroft: most cheap inverters are horribly inefficient
10:05 PM enleth: loads outside of that range may cause it to waste more power to internal heating
10:05 PM XXCoder: theres one feedback that says it kept iphone and tablet 100% all day
10:05 PM roycroft: if it's for a cell phone it also depends on where you are
10:06 PM Wolf__: battery packs work better for dc-dc
10:06 PM roycroft: if you're in an urban area it will last a *lot* longer than if you're out in the country where cell towers are few and far apart
10:06 PM XXCoder: my battery pack it could charge my phone 3 to 4 times before it dies
10:06 PM XXCoder: and its 12 mAH and 5v only
10:06 PM XXCoder: err 12 aH
10:06 PM roycroft: i have radiant ceiling heat in my house
10:06 PM roycroft: i.e. my house is a faraday cage
10:07 PM roycroft: my cell phone hardly works inside the house
10:07 PM roycroft: sometimes it does not work at all
10:07 PM XXCoder: heh tacoma here. this region is weirdly bad on cell reception but dont matter, wifi when home
10:07 PM roycroft: and it will last less than a day if i don't use it
10:07 PM XXCoder: rarely need phone at home also
10:07 PM roycroft: if i stick the phone in my garage, outside the faraday cage, it will last 4 days or so before needing a charge
10:07 PM enleth: huh, I had no idea radiant ceiling heaters are even a thing, only seen floor heating
10:08 PM roycroft: they are
10:08 PM roycroft: and speaking of horribly inefficient ...
10:08 PM XXCoder: this house is ooold 1946, each room has its own heater lol
10:08 PM roycroft: but i live in the pacific northwet, where we have some of the cheapest power in the country
10:08 PM roycroft: because we have so much hydro power here
10:08 PM XXCoder: thankfully modernized in 1980s? which means electric heater not radiant heater thing
10:08 PM roycroft: my house was built in the early '70s, when electricity was almost free here
10:09 PM XXCoder: then modernized again in 2017 :P
10:09 PM roycroft: radiant ceiling heat is cheap to install, but very very inefficient
10:09 PM roycroft: and you would not believe the amount of insulation that is in my attic to try to keep the heat from escaping
10:09 PM XXCoder: ow heh
10:10 PM roycroft: i use an electric oil-filled radiator in my living room and dining room
10:10 PM XXCoder: wonder if you could add single duct from top to bottom to push heated air back down
10:10 PM roycroft: it's a lot cheaper to operate than using the ceiling heat
10:10 PM roycroft: and my cats like the radiator
10:10 PM XXCoder: how cold do your winters get
10:10 PM roycroft: so they hang out by it instead of crawling all over me to get warm
10:10 PM roycroft: it does not get below freezing that often
10:10 PM XXCoder: you could get lizard bed heater
10:11 PM XXCoder: design a nice towel around it and cats love it
10:11 PM roycroft: the oil-filled radiators are cheap and work well
10:11 PM roycroft: $35
10:11 PM roycroft: i have two cats, and the don't get along all that well
10:11 PM roycroft: but one can lay on one side of the radiator, and the other on the other side
10:11 PM XXCoder: 2 lizard heaters :)
10:11 PM roycroft: so they both get warm, but don't have to get too close to each other
10:12 PM roycroft: i do not use the thing for the benefit of the cats though
10:12 PM roycroft: that's just an added bonus
10:12 PM XXCoder: yeah though i wonder on safety
10:12 PM roycroft: what about safety?
10:12 PM roycroft: they don't get too hot
10:12 PM XXCoder: how hot does external get
10:12 PM XXCoder: interesting
10:12 PM roycroft: probably 60 degrees or so
10:12 PM roycroft: and they shut off if knocked over
10:13 PM roycroft: i solved a big problem in my shop this year
10:13 PM roycroft: i got one of those radiators for my welding shop
10:13 PM roycroft: now i can paint in the winter
10:13 PM roycroft: i have a big electric heater for that shop, but it has a motor that can spark, and it has hot wires that make the heat
10:13 PM roycroft: no way i can paint with that on
10:14 PM roycroft: but the radiator is perfectly safe
10:14 PM roycroft: i could spray directly on it and the paint would not flash
10:15 PM XXCoder: nice :)
10:15 PM roycroft: it's on right now, as a matter of fact
10:15 PM roycroft: i was sealing some mdf with shellac after work today
10:17 PM roycroft: i did all my laminating last week in the welding shop
10:17 PM roycroft: contact cement needs to be pretty warm to work
10:18 PM XXCoder: cool :)
10:19 PM XXCoder: soon will finally start ripping out concerete in basement at 3 walls
10:19 PM XXCoder: then start making basement essentally impossible to flood
10:21 PM enleth: XXCoder: sealing it from all sides and the slab?
10:21 PM XXCoder: no, adding pump
10:21 PM XXCoder: basically will dig 2-3 feet groove around edges
10:22 PM XXCoder: add liner, pipes and pump then fill with rocks, top liner, then finally concerete
10:22 PM enleth: ah, sounds good
10:22 PM XXCoder: yeah theres interesting (and hah old graphics style) videos on that
10:23 PM enleth: I just remembered seeing one building that was sealed a little bit too well, in a little bit too shitty and swampy ground, and it wasn't heavy enough
10:23 PM enleth: sure the basement stopped being flooded
10:23 PM enleth: but it stopped being a basement too
10:24 PM XXCoder: basements is bit expensive to do here
10:24 PM XXCoder: soil is 1 or 2 inches deep
10:24 PM enleth: the whole thing just got pushed out of the ground
10:25 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlUZwwKDqXo
10:26 PM XXCoder: oh thats wrong ttpe
10:31 PM XXCoder: this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nWXU9YqUK8
10:31 PM XXCoder: its for ones that was already built
10:31 PM XXCoder: also lol on that early era renders'
10:34 PM roycroft: our water table is about 10cm below the surface in the winter
10:34 PM roycroft: hard to build basements
10:34 PM XXCoder: not too sure what it is like here, because like previously menioned, soil is very short here
10:36 PM roycroft: there are very few houses with basements around here
10:37 PM roycroft: otoh, the frost line is really shallow as well
10:37 PM XXCoder: no frost line here
10:37 PM roycroft: so we don't have to dig really deep footings
10:37 PM roycroft: yeah, that's what i mean by really shallow
10:38 PM roycroft: when we have a long cold spell, the frost line might be 2cm below the surface :)
10:38 PM XXCoder: so no worries about ice lifting eh
10:38 PM XXCoder: it simply dont get cold enough for any here, not for long term anyway. record I experenced was solid week of 10f
10:38 PM XXCoder: but normal winters is 30-35f
10:39 PM roycroft: it's going to be 16 or so at the coast tomorrow
10:39 PM roycroft: shorts weather!
10:40 PM XXCoder: 16c?
10:40 PM roycroft: yes
10:40 PM XXCoder: okay if I recall right 20c is around 65f?
10:40 PM roycroft: 20c is 68f
10:40 PM XXCoder: close enough heh
10:42 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXBfwgwT1nQ
10:42 PM XXCoder: roy if I experenced actua; temperate when I read weather daily it'd be easer for me to use C :)
10:49 PM roycroft: i mostly gave up using fahrenheit decades ago
10:49 PM roycroft: and with the advent of the internet and online weather reports i was able to completely give it up
10:49 PM roycroft: i don't like watching news on the television anyway
10:50 PM roycroft: so i don't have to do any converting
11:04 PM Contract_Pilot: Ahhh just had to renew my aircraft Registration online... way simpler then mailing it in.
11:42 PM Crom_: Contract_Pilot: I just renewed my Ham radio license... suprised me, it was free this time
11:51 PM Contract_Pilot: Ya $5.00 to the FAA used to be Lifetime but idiots kept forgetting to update their addy and well now we have to do it every couple years.
11:54 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXBfwgwT1nQ enjoy
11:54 PM XXCoder: oh linked it already heh
11:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Y_Axis_limitswitches1.jpg
11:54 PM Tom_L: got the Y axis limits mounted
11:54 PM XXCoder: nice!
11:55 PM XXCoder: so its designed to trigger not smash it in
11:55 PM XXCoder: aka not reprap
11:55 PM Contract_Pilot: So these displays confirmed today on these displays the backlights are only about 25%, the AR film on the touch panels are crazed must have had extreme exposure to UV at some point in their life or improper storage. returing to ebay seller
11:55 PM XXCoder: but how did you know where to place em?
11:55 PM Tom_L: measured
11:55 PM Contract_Pilot: Returning for sure not Grade A very little useage
11:55 PM XXCoder: how do you do that?
11:56 PM XXCoder: I dont mean how to read tape measure so on
11:56 PM XXCoder: I mean where do you figure what safe extents is so on
11:56 PM Tom_L: figured where the switch and trigger would fit without hitting anything then ran the axis to both ends
11:56 PM Tom_L: and mounted the switches there
11:57 PM XXCoder: you checked where switches would trigger?
11:57 PM Tom_L: left some room for the hard limits
11:57 PM Tom_L: of course i did
11:57 PM Contract_Pilot: Prob the Crazing on the 5wire glass ar film that is making them dim
11:57 PM XXCoder: tom im not criticing just figuring how you did it
11:57 PM XXCoder: trying to learn :) evenually try to mount limit switches on my cnc router
11:58 PM Tom_L: figured where the absolute limits were then backed off a little bit
11:58 PM XXCoder: honestly I think mine will be homing switches
11:58 PM Tom_L: and made sure the switch tripped there
11:58 PM XXCoder: so you set it offset from hard limit (where it would smash something)
11:59 PM XXCoder: but does you set it offset for soft limit also? (trigger then back off say .01" then set this as zero)
11:59 PM Tom_L: that's what i do on the sherline
11:59 PM Tom_L: use the switch then move in a little for the actual zero offset