#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 05 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:29 AM Crom: My Mesa 7i92M's showed up today with my 36v 10a PS's
12:32 AM Crom: Tuesday I order Celeron 1900 mini ITX boards and RAM
12:32 AM Crom: unless some knows a faster fanless mini ITX board
12:38 AM Crom: J1900 is the fastest fanless I'm seeing
01:33 AM MrHindsight: slap this puppy on http://www.niagarathermal.com/images/extruded-fin-heat-sinks-img1-large.jpg and you won't need a fan
01:34 AM Longbow: morning!
01:34 AM MrHindsight: evenin
01:34 AM Longbow: :)
01:35 AM MrHindsight: really really early morning here
01:35 AM Longbow: Anyone using a J1900 motherboard? - The onBoard Intel graphics have no drivers in wheezy linux?
01:35 AM Longbow: Ia 8:30AM here
01:37 AM MrHindsight: do you need RTAI or preempt-rt?
01:39 AM Longbow: rtai
01:39 AM Longbow: I installed the .ISO image that is on the linux page
01:39 AM Longbow: problem is I have to rotate the screen by 90
01:40 AM Longbow: and I get the following message: xrandr: output default cannot use rotation left reflection none
01:41 AM MrHindsight: fbdev might be able to do it
01:42 AM MrHindsight: Longbow: can you build kernels? (in your range of abilities)
01:43 AM Longbow: I dont think so :-/
01:43 AM MrHindsight: the RTAI dev just said that FBDEV should do it
01:44 AM MrHindsight: https://linux.die.net/man/4/fbdev
01:45 AM MrHindsight: "Option Rotate string
01:45 AM MrHindsight: Enable rotation of the display. The supported values are "CW" (clockwise, 90 degrees), "UD" (upside down, 180 degrees) and "CCW" (counter clockwise, 270 degrees). Implies use of the shadow framebuffer layer. Default: off."
01:45 AM Longbow: I see
01:48 AM Longbow: This is not as easy as sudo apt-get install fbdev? :D
01:49 AM MrHindsight: unless the LCNC devs have another solution for you (ask in ~7+ hours)
01:50 AM MrHindsight: you need to get another motherboard with a GPU driver in Wheezy
01:50 AM Longbow: ok, man. Thank your fro the help!
01:50 AM Longbow: btw where are u from?
01:50 AM MrHindsight: midwest USA
01:50 AM Longbow: pretty far:) Salutes:D
01:50 AM MrHindsight: hasta
02:15 AM Deejay: moin
02:16 AM Longbow: I solved the issue with an pcie graphic card.... an older ati FireGL :)
02:20 AM Longbow: morning:)
02:31 AM MrHindsight: another satisfied user!
02:36 AM Longbow: yeah. Now I just have to modify the gmoccapy UI to fit the vertical screen :)
03:27 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: dont you code on freecad
05:09 AM jthornton: morning
05:10 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:34 AM Tom_L: 21F
05:37 AM jthornton: 16°F
05:44 AM XXCoder: 500F
06:07 AM Jymmm: 52F (for a change it's actually warm)
06:07 AM Jymmm: XXCoder: I would have thought hell would be warmer than that ;)
06:08 AM XXCoder: nah its just lukewarm hell. I wasnt THAT evil after all
06:08 AM Jymmm: jthornton: 16F?! Really??????
06:08 AM Jymmm: XXCoder: Eh
06:08 AM jthornton: yea a warm morning
06:09 AM XXCoder: heh it very rarely gets that cold here
06:09 AM XXCoder: in fact, its pretty rare to go below 30f here
06:11 AM jthornton: we had 1°F the other morning
06:13 AM Jymmm: jthornton: Eeeeesh, you poor bastard :(
06:14 AM XXCoder: not really that bad, theres worse places
06:15 AM XXCoder: polar votex is coming for most of east usa though
06:26 AM Longbow: anyone recently installed nativeCAM? I got the repository setup. Then It says: Installing NativeCAM....
06:26 AM Longbow: for hours
06:26 AM Longbow: and nothing
06:30 AM gloops: Ichs uses it
06:30 AM gloops: i think he also had some issues he calls it from linuxcnc i think, he did sort the problem out
06:36 AM Longbow: Ichs?
06:43 AM gloops: Ichsguckslive - he isnt here atm
06:43 AM gloops: hes got a youtube channel it might be on there ill have a quick look
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:44 AM XXCoder: hey'
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: how is it u there
06:45 AM IchGucksLive: freezing toilets
06:45 AM XXCoder: I am just user of freecad, I dont help programming it
06:45 AM IchGucksLive: lucky you are
06:46 AM IchGucksLive: im fighting with the Cpp-> python and python-> cpp conversions
06:46 AM XXCoder: much fun. heh
06:46 AM IchGucksLive: but it looks nice
06:47 AM IchGucksLive: did you see the tracker on drill siom i posted
06:47 AM IchGucksLive: SIM
06:47 AM IchGucksLive: i Hacked G81-G83 to G1
06:47 AM IchGucksLive: as sim
06:48 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NJmoLY4vYk
06:49 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: ?
06:49 AM XXCoder: saw that link
06:50 AM XXCoder: is it part of new CAM for freecad?
06:50 AM IchGucksLive: i hope it will be
06:50 AM IchGucksLive: noone knows
06:52 AM XXCoder: I hope it will be nice cam. there is so few decent cams for linux.
06:52 AM Longbow: hi
06:53 AM Longbow: nativeCAM installing... for hours? why that. Im using a fresth install of the wheezy
06:54 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: just update to 2.7.11 and synaptic install naticvam
06:54 AM IchGucksLive: then put the 3 lines inside the mashine ini
06:54 AM IchGucksLive: or simply run the modification script
06:54 AM Longbow: I updated to master branch
06:54 AM Longbow: 2.8
06:54 AM Longbow: will it also work?
06:56 AM IchGucksLive: let me check
06:57 AM jthornton: https://memphis.craigslist.org/bfd/d/owner-financing60000-sf/6445785688.html
06:58 AM XXCoder: 20 bucks per sqft so cheao lol
06:59 AM XXCoder: 60,000 sqft
06:59 AM Longbow: if not I can reload the 2.7.11 and install nativeCAM and then instal 2.8 to get the gmoccapy new version
07:42 AM Longbow: SOLVED: nativeCAM can be installed under te latest master branch 2.8 BUT it will not acknowledge for completing installation. Just close it and then in synaptic installation manager Mark for reinstallation of Linuxcnc. Then it ALL wokrs:D
10:15 AM roycroft: tgif, that's all i can say
10:15 AM MarcelineVQ: what do you do to relax?
10:17 AM roycroft: work in my shop :)
10:18 AM Deejay: watch the cnc machine ;)
10:18 AM roycroft: actually, i like to go to concerts and garden and ride my bike for relaxation
10:18 AM roycroft: camping and hiking when the weather permits
10:19 AM roycroft: dealing with plastic laminate is not on the list of things i do to relax, and even though i'm glad it's friday, i still have to do that after work
10:37 AM gloops: this 'marketplace' site on facebook is worth watching
10:39 AM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1991258411143110
10:40 AM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/321351375033236
10:40 AM roycroft: nothing on facebook is worth watching :)
10:40 AM gloops: 15 quid for a bench grinder, not bad
10:40 AM miss0r: roycroft: you speak truth :)
10:40 AM * roycroft is one of the 17 people in the known universe with no facebook account, no twitter account, and no intention of every having either
10:40 AM archivist: facefook also fails to display for many
10:40 AM roycroft: ever
10:41 AM archivist: twatter
10:41 AM miss0r: roycroft: I was wondering if I ever got to meet another one like me :D
10:41 AM archivist: 3 of us!
10:41 AM roycroft: i thought twitter was a horrible thing even before our insulter-in-chief started abusing it
10:41 AM miss0r: o_0
10:42 AM roycroft: so 3 out of 17 are on this very channel
10:42 AM roycroft: fancy that
10:42 AM DaViruz: 4!
10:42 AM roycroft: wow
10:42 AM miss0r: come join me at ##wewithoutfacebook (We without facebook) :P
10:42 AM roycroft: the anti-social media force is strong on #linuxcnc
10:42 AM roycroft: i don't look at it as we without facebook
10:42 AM DaViruz: that can have a bit of a double meaning
10:43 AM miss0r: no, we are the enlightened ones
10:43 AM roycroft: i look at it as them encumbered with facebook
10:43 AM miss0r: DaViruz ?
10:44 AM DaViruz: a media force for the anti-social
10:44 AM gloops: sign up, get your data in the master control app
10:44 AM miss0r: basically we are just stuck with the 'old fashion' social media; IRC
10:45 AM roycroft: where we don't have to give away all our personal information to participate
10:45 AM gloops: irc is the refuge of rapidly ageing hackers and sys admins
10:45 AM roycroft: and where we aren't limited to 140 characters at a go
10:45 AM miss0r: I bet I could get alot more shot attention here, if I were on facebook. Usualy I just don't think of professionalism when I think of facebook
10:45 AM miss0r: shot=shop
10:45 AM gloops: roycroft all your data is already owned, there is no escape
10:46 AM roycroft: i think we've lost an entire generation to social media
10:46 AM miss0r: no, we are limited to 512bytes :]
10:46 AM roycroft: but as every generation revolts against the previous generation, there is hope that we'll overcome it in the next generation
10:46 AM roycroft: if there is a next generation
10:47 AM archivist: must use the "latest thing"
10:47 AM roycroft: the problem is that people are so busy tweeting these days that they don't have time to breed
10:47 AM roycroft: also
10:47 AM roycroft: and this probably sets me even further apart
10:47 AM roycroft: i do have an iphone
10:47 AM miss0r: Which is a good thing imo. Lots'n lots of people using twitter shouldn't breed at all
10:47 AM gloops: its doesnt set you apart, it sets you behind
10:47 AM roycroft: however, my cellular carrier has disabled sms on my account
10:48 AM * miss0r stares at roycroft in revolt !
10:48 AM roycroft: it took three months of kicking and screaming and threatening to get them to do it
10:48 AM roycroft: but they did it
10:48 AM miss0r: I have a CAT s60 with thermal camera in it :D
10:48 AM roycroft: you can send me text messages 'til the cows come home, and i'll never receive them
10:49 AM miss0r: I'm somewhat with'ya. I would much rather have a phone conversation than do texts - but they do some in handy once in a while
10:49 AM gregcnc_: did you get an iphone without delete and ignore functions?
10:49 AM roycroft: i don't mind the concept of sms per se
10:49 AM roycroft: however, there is an expectation that a text message will be responded to in real time 24/7, no matter what the circumstances
10:49 AM Rab: I don't have any of that crap. No interest in selling out my personal relationships for somebody's ad revenue.
10:49 AM roycroft: an expectation that does not hold for email or telephony
10:50 AM roycroft: and i have a boss who does not respect boundaries
10:50 AM roycroft: i *know* he would abuse it
10:50 AM gregcnc_: that's not true at all
10:50 AM roycroft: in fact, i carry a pager because i'm on-call 24/7
10:50 AM roycroft: the only way i agreed to carry it was to get my boss to commit to giving me money every time my pager makes noise outside of work hours
10:51 AM gregcnc_: email and calls these days are expected to be answered just as quickly, after all they are in your pocket at all times
10:51 AM roycroft: he knows that if he pages me for some bullshit reason in the middle of the night it costs him $62.50 just to get my attention
10:51 AM gregcnc_: good for you, most people just submit
10:51 AM archivist: I dont carry a smart phone either :)
10:51 AM gloops: luddites
10:51 AM archivist: no need
10:51 AM roycroft: i have blocked my boss' email from my personal account
10:51 AM roycroft: he tried that abuse before
10:52 AM roycroft: he knows i won't look at work emails outside working hours
10:52 AM roycroft: so he emails me with his crap on the weekends
10:52 AM roycroft: well
10:52 AM roycroft: email-attempts
10:52 AM roycroft: he still does it sometimes - i see the rejections in my mail logs
10:52 AM roycroft: archivist: i use my iphone more as an ipod than anything else
10:53 AM roycroft: although i do like the data service on it - i can listen to streaming audio from radio stations around the world on it
10:53 AM roycroft: i do not do email or web browsing on it - the screen is entirely too small for that
10:53 AM roycroft: i have an ipad that i can use for that stuff
10:54 AM roycroft: since i'm on-call 24/7, and some of our slas stipulate a 15 minute response time, carrying an ipad wherever i go instead of a laptop makes sense
10:54 AM gloops: in the USSR the central planners had to estimate the supply and demand of anything like 30000 individual products - with no computers, primitive feedback systems and so on, it failed
10:55 AM gloops: with the new market aware social media and consumer apps, masses of useful data is fed back to allow corps to tailor production to meet demand
10:55 AM roycroft: gloops: i am not against the concept of social media, per se
10:56 AM gloops: and this also applies to designs, health care, traffic, you name it
10:56 AM roycroft: but technology has far outpaced social evolution
10:56 AM roycroft: and it's causing more harm than it's doing good at the moment
10:56 AM roycroft: i have confidence that we'll get through this difficult phase eventually
10:56 AM roycroft: but for now i will not participate
10:57 AM archivist: mega companies ruining life for little people/companies
10:57 AM gloops: this is a kind of fascism, ever detail of your personal activities is logged and micro managed by big brother
10:58 AM gregcnc_: but that's what people want
10:58 AM archivist: we have to fight that
10:58 AM roycroft: my boss, coworkers and most of the people they deals with are vehemently anti-government
10:58 AM gloops: i think most people are happier like that gregcnc
10:58 AM roycroft: they fancy themselves libertarians, but they don't know what the word really means
10:58 AM gregcnc_: that's what I mean
10:59 AM gregcnc_: think less, fuck around more
10:59 AM roycroft: anyway, what i find amusing (not in a funny haha way) is that they are so paranoid about government monitoring them, yet they gladly give big corporations all their personal data without a thought
10:59 AM roycroft: they think that because i don't 'hate' government like they do that i'm some kind of communist
10:59 AM roycroft: they don't get that i have the same healthy mistrust of government as i do of the private sector
11:00 AM gregcnc_: Wall-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU
11:00 AM roycroft: people compromise their principles so easily for convenience that they often aren't aware that they're doing so
11:01 AM roycroft: my ex gf is a serious "prepper"
11:01 AM roycroft: she is absolutely convinced that society is going to break down completely
11:01 AM roycroft: one reason i'm not with her any more - i believe in being prepared for disasters, but i can't be around someone so pessimistic, but that's another story
11:02 AM roycroft: a few years ago i was helping her restructure her business
11:02 AM roycroft: and she wanted to move her accounting to quickbooks online
11:02 AM roycroft: i tried and tried to convince her to keep local quickbooks
11:02 AM roycroft: but she found it more convenient to move it all to the cloud
11:02 AM roycroft: i questioned how she could do that and still maintain her prepper beliefs
11:03 AM roycroft: how relying on a big corporation for a critical part of her business could be reconciled with her belief in complete self-reliance
11:03 AM roycroft: that caused a huge fight, which was not my intent
11:03 AM roycroft: but sometimes when you get to questioning a person's core values big fights happen, i guess
11:04 AM roycroft: that whole thing was stupid anyway
11:04 AM gregcnc_: sometimes?
11:04 AM roycroft: her justification for this cloud-based thing was that she had a bookkeeper who needed to work remotely at times
11:04 AM roycroft: she already had comcast business internet service, with a static ip
11:04 AM roycroft: a simple vpn would have taken care of the remote access problem
11:05 AM roycroft: and i was more than willing to set it all up for her and the bookkeeper
11:06 AM roycroft: she also is one who claims to be mistrustful of everyone, but focuses her mistrust on government, and blindly acceeds to any and all demands of private sector entities
11:07 AM * roycroft gives the government as little information as possible, and gives corporations as little information as possible, and is smug in his consistency :)
11:07 AM gloops: corporate socialism
11:08 AM roycroft: anyway
11:09 AM roycroft: do any of you have or have any of you worked with certiflat welding tables?
11:09 AM fragalot: 'allo
11:09 AM roycroft: my main welding table is a bit awkward in size and is not as flat as it should be
11:09 AM roycroft: i've been wanting to replace it for a long time
11:10 AM Rab: My business partner insists on using Google Docs for everything. He was stuck on a Chromebook for a while, so I think his horizon is rather narrow. I work and back up locally, keeping interaction with Docs to a minimum.
11:10 AM roycroft: i'd like getting something like a buildpro, but those are qicked expensive, and i don't weld enough to justify the cost
11:10 AM roycroft: i shun google as well
11:11 AM roycroft: google, facebook and twitter are the triumverate of internet evil
11:11 AM Rab: We haven't given them any money, they don't owe us anything...I can't make my business continuance plan dependant on Google.
11:11 AM roycroft: certiflat look pretty nice, and are much more affordable
11:11 AM roycroft: and they take stronghands fixtures
11:12 AM Rab: As of mid-2017 they claim to have stopped mining GMail for ad keywords, so that sure is comforting.
11:12 AM roycroft: remind your business partner that googled rolled out some social media platform a few years ago
11:12 AM roycroft: i forget which one
11:12 AM roycroft: anyway, it was in beta and they convinced a whole lot of people to move all their crap to that new platform
11:12 AM roycroft: and then google turned it off one day without warning
11:12 AM roycroft: and everyone lost all their content
11:13 AM roycroft: i'e always been leery of anything cloud-based
11:13 AM roycroft: that google move was a textbook example of why the cloud is a problem
11:13 AM fragalot: Rab: the only reason they stopped is because they no longer need to.
11:14 AM gloops: thats the dilemna of living off the grid these days, you cant live off the grid without being on the net
11:14 AM Rab: Yep. If he'd tried to incorporate Hangouts, Code, Wave, Reader, etc into his workflow, the lesson might be a little clearer.
11:14 AM Rab: fragalot, that is my supposition.
11:14 AM roycroft: i had a little tiff with the manager at hf a couple weeks ago
11:14 AM gloops: how can you build a bunker without chinese parts
11:15 AM roycroft: he insisted that i give him my phone number before making a purchase
11:15 AM gregcnc_: 867-5309
11:15 AM roycroft: and when he became aware that i know there is heavy corporate pressure to collect phone numbers, he got even more agitated
11:15 AM miss0r: Whats the proper everyday term for the sugary drinks with carbondioxide in'em?
11:15 AM miss0r: soft drinks?
11:15 AM Rab: Also why I can't bother investing time in Fusion360. ;)
11:15 AM gregcnc_: pop
11:15 AM miss0r: just 'pop' ?
11:15 AM roycroft: when i tried to explain to him that i would prefer to remain a customer and not the product, he got this totally blank look on his face
11:16 AM gloops: fizzy drinks?
11:16 AM roycroft: he is a millennial :)
11:16 AM miss0r: I don't know :) Thats why I am asking
11:16 AM roycroft: i call them sodas
11:16 AM miss0r: indeed. that sounds like a word I would use
11:16 AM roycroft: some call them soda pop
11:16 AM cradek: miss0r: if you're asking about the US, it depends where you are
11:16 AM roycroft: sne some just pop
11:16 AM roycroft: yes, it's regional, for the most part
11:17 AM miss0r: how do I say it without sounding like i'm from the deep south?
11:17 AM Rab: roycroft, I just blurt "Iprefertowithholdthat", seems to be the magic keyphrase.
11:17 AM gloops: sparkling soft drinks
11:17 AM roycroft: say "pepsi" :)
11:17 AM miss0r: lol
11:17 AM roycroft: if you're from the south they're called "cokes"
11:17 AM miss0r: 'ere in denmark we call them 'sadavand' which translates to soda water
11:17 AM gregcnc_: if you want to sound like a robot instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonated_drink
11:17 AM miss0r: sodavand*
11:17 AM jdh: or RC
11:17 AM gloops: its pop in the UK usually
11:18 AM roycroft: rab: i always say "sorry, i don't give out personal information"
11:18 AM gregcnc_: no thankyou is effective here
11:18 AM roycroft: which is what i said that caused the manager to go berzerk
11:18 AM Connor: roycroft: Radio Shack did that crap.. I NEVER give out my phone or email to anyone.
11:18 AM roycroft: yes, i worked for radio shack back in the '80s
11:18 AM roycroft: and i hated having to try to collect that information
11:19 AM roycroft: they finally abandoned it
11:19 AM roycroft: but then they went out of business
11:19 AM fragalot: they abandoned radioshack here.
11:19 AM fragalot: :P
11:19 AM miss0r: isn't that closed now'a'days ?
11:19 AM miss0r: I still have a few bags of breakout boards I bought at a radioshack in new york
11:19 AM miss0r: Now that is vacation shopping :]
11:20 AM miss0r: Then I had to follow my wife for 2 hours through victorias secret .....
11:20 AM Connor: They're a few that's opened up as Franchises or something..
11:22 AM miss0r: We have an issue here in Denmark with getting electronics NOW. I mean, I can order it online and have it within 1-2 days. BUT, if I need a [insert standard component name here] right here right now, theres only one place to go, and it is some 60 kilometers from, in the center of copenhagen. and it closed 20 mins ago
11:22 AM Connor: miss0r: What's wrong with that? Should have been some nice viewing...
11:22 AM Connor: :)
11:23 AM miss0r: Connor: Like every other city, if you've lived there, it doesn't feel like sightseeing anymore
11:23 AM miss0r: also; getting a parking space is a pain in the buttom!
11:24 AM miss0r: and you can be damn sure you are being watched by a traffic warden the second you enter the parking zone. If you are just 1/10 of a mm too close to an intersection, they will fine you the second you turn off your car... Also, they smell bad and have bad teeth
11:25 AM roycroft: i remember when i was a kid going to allied radio
11:25 AM roycroft: then radios shack bought allied, and it became allied radio shack
11:25 AM roycroft: it was *all* discrete components and pcb material and the like back then
11:25 AM roycroft: no shiny appliances
11:25 AM roycroft: they had electronics kits
11:26 AM roycroft: but you couldn't buy a radio there
11:26 AM roycroft: then it became radio shack and things started going downhill
11:26 AM Crom: I still go through my radio shack resistor cards looking for components
11:26 AM miss0r: I've always loved electronics kits :) I made a vellmann K8000 PC interface when I was 8 years old :] Damn that was good times
11:27 AM Crom: getting closer to having my X2 CNC'd YAY!
11:27 AM miss0r: wow, you can still get it: https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=9383
11:27 AM gloops: no closer to my router being done, 2 days off working on it..
11:28 AM miss0r: pictures need to be shares here
11:28 AM miss0r: shared* damnit, I can't hit the right keys today
11:28 AM gloops: i am settled on the german grey colour though
11:29 AM fragalot: There are still 2 electronic component shops here, and the only reason they still exist is because of the 2 universities nearby that teach electronics
11:29 AM miss0r: I'll be back a bit later...
11:30 AM fragalot: but i'm afraid both are nearing their retirement age
11:30 AM roycroft: the only electronics store in eugene closed about 4 years ago
11:31 AM roycroft: i have to either go on a 2 hour drive to portand to buy components or order from mouser/digi-key
11:31 AM roycroft: i do the latter about 100% of the time
11:35 AM Rab: Mouser's main warehouse is 200mi away, they deliver overnight here with UPS Ground as long as your order goes in by 8:00pm.
11:36 AM Rab: The sad downside is that our half-dozen great local electronics places couldn't compete with that, and folded one by one.
11:37 AM roycroft: yeah, i hate ordering from non-local vendors
11:37 AM roycroft: but sadly i don't have the choice any more
11:38 AM Rab: We still have a Fry's.
11:38 AM roycroft: that's the 2 hour drive for me
11:38 AM roycroft: fry's in wilsonville oregon - just south of portland
11:39 AM Rab: Can't be worth it unless you're seriously desperate.
11:39 AM roycroft: which is why i almost always order from digi-key(preferred) or mouser
11:39 AM roycroft: if i need something *right now* (which means in 5 hours) i'll drive to fry's
11:39 AM roycroft: if i am going to pdx anyway i'll stop at fry's
12:15 PM gloops: cannot believe the first guy didnt switch the lathe off! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EdQq5iAGYs
12:22 PM * roycroft is too squeamish to watch industrial accident videos
12:23 PM miss0r: For you machinist in here: I'm going to need to drill a pretty deep hole in a shaft. The hole diameter is 3.5mm, and will be done all the way through a 100mm shaft. I will do this on the lathe. Here is the real question: The shaft is some sort of steel(I have no idea what exactly) hardened to 40-45HRC. Can this be done with a HSS + cobalt drill? or do I need to use a tungsten carbide drill here?
12:24 PM miss0r: What are your thoughts?
12:24 PM Connor: gloops: That's why you don't wear gloves or long selves when running mills and lathes..
12:24 PM methods_: miss0r: that would be a tough drill
12:24 PM methods_: 30xd
12:25 PM miss0r: yeah. it'll take the time it needs
12:25 PM methods_: it will be an expensive hole
12:25 PM miss0r: its gonna include alot of long extractions :)
12:25 PM Connor: miss0r: Holly crap.. what's it for?
12:26 PM miss0r: if I go for the tungsten carbide, yes. the HSS+co drillbit isn't that expensive
12:26 PM miss0r: Connor: New spindle for my EDM
12:26 PM methods_: really i figured even the hss drill would be expensive
12:26 PM miss0r: I was quoted 23eur for the HSS drill
12:27 PM miss0r: HSS cobalt drill even
12:27 PM methods_: well at that price i guess i'd just try and go for it then
12:27 PM miss0r: yeah, cause the TC drill was around 160eur
12:28 PM miss0r: alot for a drill that is lost if you drop it on the floor :]
12:28 PM methods_: yeah
12:28 PM methods_: that's actually not bad
12:28 PM miss0r: I'm unsure if the HSS drill can even handle the material hardness
12:28 PM methods_: i was thinking it would be more like 400eur
12:28 PM MrHindsight: vs shipping the part to someone setup to do it
12:28 PM miss0r: methods_: its a 3.5mm drill, mind you.
12:28 PM methods_: i know
12:28 PM methods_: drills of that length get very expensive
12:29 PM methods_: no matter what their diameter is
12:29 PM miss0r: That is true. But usualy i get some pretty good prices dealing with my local tool pusher
12:29 PM methods_: esp carbide
12:31 PM miss0r: I know. Fleabay hasn't been particular helpfull on this matter either
12:31 PM roycroft: how are you going to keep a 3.5mm drill tracking straight over that long of a bore?
12:31 PM miss0r: prayers
12:31 PM methods_: well i normally don't peck on holes that deep but i use thru coolant and carbide
12:32 PM methods_: if you peck you'll end up tracking off usually
12:32 PM Rab: This is a coolant channel, correct? So it doesn't need to be perfectly concentric?
12:32 PM miss0r: methods_: The carbide drill has coolant channels in it, but I don't have any way to feed coolant to it on the lathe
12:32 PM roycroft: you could just edm the bore :)
12:32 PM methods_: yeah then you have to peck
12:32 PM methods_: good luck
12:33 PM miss0r: roycroft: Indeed :] but the EDM won't be good to do a hole that deep, without this part being done...
12:33 PM miss0r: rab: that is correct
12:33 PM miss0r: I don't mind it move off a bit, as it is only for coolant
12:34 PM miss0r: but I would mind having it dip out of one side of the shaft :) the shaft outer diameter is only 7mm
12:34 PM miss0r: well, it will be once I grind it to size
12:34 PM Rab: In that case, a hole from each end to 50mm might be easier. ;)
12:35 PM miss0r: it might be. BUT if I do that with a carbide drill, and the holes does not line up perfectly, i'll have to use an EDM to remove the drillbit
12:36 PM miss0r: I might do a test cut with a dirt cheap masonry drillbit, ground to a cutting edge. That might even work
12:36 PM roycroft: no matter how you do it i don't think i'ts going to be fun
12:37 PM roycroft: satisfying if you succeed though
12:37 PM roycroft: and there is something to be said about that
12:37 PM miss0r: what do you mean? for me fun is agonizingly slow progress with looming danger of complete and utter faliure
12:37 PM roycroft: oh
12:38 PM roycroft: then you should go into politics :)
12:38 PM miss0r: I think i'll have a blast :)
12:39 PM MrHindsight: time to DIY an EDM :)
12:39 PM roycroft: i've been looking at that jeremy schmidt belt grinder some more
12:39 PM miss0r: MrHindsight: Its a pretty fun process actualy. I can tell you alot about what not do do, atleast :)
12:40 PM roycroft: and i still disagree that it's "overbuilt"
12:40 PM roycroft: well
12:40 PM roycroft: it is, but it is overbuilt for a reason
12:40 PM miss0r: roycroft: do you have a picture?
12:40 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RlL1O-bK4
12:40 PM roycroft: the goal is to make it run as smoothly as possible, eliminating vibration
12:41 PM roycroft: as with a milling machine or lathe, mass is a vibration dampter
12:41 PM roycroft: damper
12:41 PM miss0r: ahh, that design
12:42 PM roycroft: and especially given that the machine is hinged, the "overbuilding" is his mechanism to keep it running smoothly
12:42 PM miss0r: whoever said it was overbuilt?
12:42 PM roycroft: everyone on this channel who looked at it the other night :)
12:42 PM roycroft: except me
12:42 PM roycroft: structually, 1/8" steel would work
12:42 PM roycroft: structurally
12:43 PM roycroft: but his use of 3/8" is about right, i think
12:44 PM miss0r: Looking at it(without going too much into detail) I would have to agree with you. It seems reasonable
12:44 PM roycroft: i'm not sure about his fabricating his own receiver tubes out of flat bar though
12:44 PM roycroft: i think some weldless tubing should be able to be had
12:45 PM roycroft: it would look better and be a heck of a lot less work
12:45 PM miss0r: I would definetly use some nylon liners
12:46 PM miss0r: Steel on steel is not my cup'o'tea. Unless we are talking scraped, well oiled surfaces - you get the idea
12:47 PM roycroft: yeah, but the parts aren't moved that much
12:48 PM roycroft: and with 3/8" thick recievers and 1-1/2" square tubing, it's going to take a very very long time to wear them out
12:49 PM miss0r: True...
12:49 PM MrHindsight: turn a home gym into a belt grinder! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n03JraRgD2k
12:50 PM miss0r: I just found a damn ER11 collect with a 100mm straight shank on it WITH a hole bored through the length of the shank. The problem is: This shank is 10mm diameter, and theres no information on the size of the through hole. I am not sure I can grind it down to 7mm diameter and still have a shadow of structual integrity...
12:53 PM MrHindsight: Please watch entire playlist before asking question: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_tws4AXg7asrBv1MMAq4AO68ONUcvty2
12:53 PM miss0r: I'm not a patient man, and I want it NOW :D
12:53 PM MrHindsight: miss0r: not directed at you
12:54 PM MrHindsight: too bad it wasn't on the front page at reprap
12:54 PM miss0r: My message wasn't to you inparticular either. It was in refrence to my ER11 c10 purchase
12:55 PM MrHindsight: I took it personally anyway and smite you! :)
12:56 PM miss0r: :]
12:57 PM miss0r: LOL! THIS is a picture used for selling the product :D https://erpimgs.idealhere.com/ImageFormal/a7/20/6d/a7206d3a-9f80-4c44-bdfa-cbe54cd03591/descriptions/f4ee1137-eb5e-425b-836b-a31c7ac95c21.JPG
12:57 PM miss0r: Usualy the pictures look better than the product. hahaha what a pile of steaming
12:57 PM MrHindsight: miss0r: is there any sunlight in your day this time of year?
12:57 PM miss0r: Its dark when i drive off to work, and its dark when I get home. But in between theres some sunlight, yes. I'm 'that' far to the north ;)
12:58 PM roycroft: we have a minute and 5 seconds more daylight today than yesterday!
12:58 PM MrHindsight: did you spend it wisely?
12:58 PM roycroft: and tomorrow we'll have a minute and 9 seconds more than today!
12:58 PM fragalot: miss0r: I haven't got the best of luck with ground masonry bits
12:58 PM roycroft: i'm saving it up for after work
12:59 PM fragalot: miss0r: the carbide in most of the ones i've tried is utterly useless if sharp
12:59 PM roycroft: i should cut the grass or something
12:59 PM MrHindsight: way up to 9f right now
12:59 PM miss0r: hahaha. and the article, ofc, says 'allow for 1-5mm of inacuracy due to manual measuering'... So the estimated runout of 0.01mm is not to be trusted ?! :O
01:00 PM miss0r: fragalot: Yeah, I figured that idea was too cheap to work
01:00 PM Rab: miss0r, do you have an URL to the product listing?
01:00 PM miss0r: Rab. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C8-ER11A-100L-Collet-Metal-Straight-Shank-Chuck-Holder-Extension-Rod-Tools-Kit/253089832766?epid=1794450735&hash=item3aed545f3e:g:jS4AAOSwvfZaJ7hN
01:00 PM fragalot: miss0r: that being said, I have some high quality carbide tipped drill bits for "emergency use" and those are pretty much single use too :P
01:00 PM miss0r: yeah, its only 4.5 ish eur, but still
01:01 PM miss0r: fragalot: how do you determin the lesser quality masonry drills from the higher quality ones?
01:01 PM fragalot: that thing looks miserable!
01:01 PM miss0r: yeah :D
01:01 PM fragalot: miss0r: brand, price & looks typically tell you everything you need to know
01:02 PM Rab: miss0r, where do you see that there's a hole down the middle?
01:02 PM miss0r: Rab: on another article
01:02 PM fragalot: the high quality ones I mentioned were purpose-built carbide tipped metal bits from phantom
01:02 PM fragalot: they're great to get out HSS taps
01:02 PM miss0r: rab: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C10-ER11A-100L-COLLET-CHUCK-HOLDER-EXTENSION-STRAIGHT-SHANK-FOR-CNC-MILLING/292229949677?hash=item440a4328ed:g:djIAAOSwAyBZo-ts
01:02 PM Rab: Those collet tool holders are apparently surprisingly good, for the price.
01:02 PM fragalot: Rab: the ones from banggood.com are good yeah, but that ebay image makes me cringe
01:03 PM miss0r: Rab: they cost next to nothing, so that is not a real telling statement
01:03 PM fragalot: I'm using some modified banggood ones on my deckel grinder
01:03 PM miss0r: I want one now. That is the problem with me, usualy :]
01:03 PM fragalot: cheap, under 0.005mm runout (with the cheap collets too!), and the shank size was SPOT ON.
01:03 PM fragalot: except for the 6mm collet
01:04 PM fragalot: that was atrocious
01:04 PM fragalot: and also sad bcause that's the size I needed lol
01:04 PM miss0r: I managed to wreck a perfectly good stainless spindle shank by heating and pressing on a ER11 collect... damn damn damn, now I figured i'll go out and buy one with a shank already on it, and then modify that
01:04 PM miss0r: lol
01:05 PM miss0r: OR I could just turn a new stainless shank, and start over again
01:05 PM fragalot: depends on how much your time is worth?
01:05 PM miss0r: what I am building: https://imgur.com/a/QVDBJ
01:05 PM fragalot: I've wrecked my fair share of spindles in my press too
01:06 PM miss0r: At the moment, not alot. buisness is slow
01:06 PM Rab: I made a spindle from one of those tool holders (ER11, 150mm). I never measured runout, but I'm able to run 1mm carbide end mills.
01:06 PM miss0r: Rab: and any slots you mare are magically 1.5mm in width ? :P
01:06 PM miss0r: mare=make
01:06 PM fragalot: haha
01:07 PM miss0r: I've long thought about making a highspeed spindle with one of thoes shanks and a brushless dc motor.
01:07 PM fragalot: that being said, if you're slotting a 1mm slot with a 1mm endmill, you may want to reconsider some life decisions
01:07 PM miss0r: hahah yeah
01:07 PM Rab: However I can say that while mine had a center drill hole in the end, it did not go through.
01:08 PM miss0r: but the last article I posted to you did seem like it went thought, right?
01:09 PM Rab: I didn't see anything indicating that in the text, but the one head-on pic does seem that way (or else it's a very weird reflection).
01:10 PM miss0r: I was planning to do a highspeed spindle I could mount in my mill with the SK40 collect. But like so many other projects, I ended up cancelling it when I figured out the price of stuff :) I'd need some pretty good bearings for this to make any sense
01:10 PM miss0r: Rab: I guess I should still be planning on drilling it myself
01:10 PM Rab: So I would be super careful. There are often cosmetic differences in generic eBay items. If you order from that exact listing with the pic, you might get lucky.
01:11 PM miss0r: True, but as long as I can't determin the ID of that bore, I won't go for it. Chances are theres nothing but a paper thin wall left once i've ground it down to 7mm OD
01:11 PM fragalot: miss0r: and warp it in the process as you relieve some of the off-center hardening stresses :D
01:11 PM miss0r: ... that too
01:12 PM fragalot: but if you're grinding the OD anyway.....
01:12 PM miss0r: I'll start with the drilling process, and then grind it down to size
01:12 PM fragalot: can you not drill, grind OD, and then grind the ER11 taper in-place?
01:12 PM Rab: I'd go for it. If it doesn't have a hole, it's a good blank for your hold-drilling project.
01:12 PM Rab: s/hold/hole
01:13 PM miss0r: I have thought about that too. I was thinking about making it out of a single rod of stainless and just doing it all from scratch
01:13 PM miss0r: reusing the retainer nut from one of my scavenged ER11 collects
01:13 PM miss0r: I think I'll do that while I wait for the ordered shank :]
01:14 PM fragalot: :-)
01:14 PM Nick-Shop_ is now known as Nick-Shop
01:14 PM roycroft: oh my god
01:14 PM roycroft: the world is coming to an end
01:14 PM miss0r: its not that hard. I made a ER25 collect for my lathe out of CI
01:14 PM fragalot: CI?
01:14 PM miss0r: cast iron
01:14 PM roycroft: irn-bru have announced that they're altering their recipe (for the first time in 117 years)
01:14 PM miss0r: :o
01:15 PM fragalot: roycroft: has some ingredient become expensive or something,
01:15 PM miss0r: There are only two places in the world where coca cola is not the most sold soda.. Scotland and Denmark. Scotland has irn-bru and denmark has faxe kondi
01:15 PM miss0r: This is the end....
01:15 PM roycroft: they are reducing the sugar content
01:15 PM fragalot: so yes
01:16 PM roycroft: it's in part about the sugar tax
01:16 PM roycroft: and in part about wanting the product to be perceived as more healthful
01:16 PM roycroft: or less unhealthful?
01:16 PM miss0r: screw that lol
01:16 PM fragalot: http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/sugar.aspx
01:16 PM fragalot: :D
01:16 PM miss0r: I don't drink soda to stay healthy, I do it to ward off wrinkles, keeping my skin nice and stretched
01:17 PM roycroft: 'hello, i want some of that sickly sweet sugary beverage you make - but give me the "healthy" version'
01:17 PM fragalot: keeps the rust away
01:17 PM fragalot: I think the sugar taxes are an incredible concept
01:17 PM fragalot: they have saved me so much money now that I hop the border to sthop
01:17 PM fragalot: shop*
01:18 PM roycroft: people are hoarding irn-bru classic now
01:18 PM fragalot: lol
01:18 PM miss0r: YES, I still have a few meters of 16mm A4 stainless roundstock. Here I go ;)
01:18 PM fragalot: I was actually recently surprised at how short the expiration date is for cola
01:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: Good luck :) let us know how it went
01:19 PM fragalot: or set up a live youtube feed for us bored types
01:19 PM MarcelineVQ: the date is just for the bubbles
01:19 PM miss0r: hehehe. I will consider the youtube feed :P
01:19 PM MarcelineVQ: Which will last longer than is written anyway
01:20 PM fragalot: you can always put 'm back in anyway if you're creative enough
01:20 PM roycroft: indeed, the date is just for the bubbles
01:20 PM roycroft: and you'll find sodas in aluminium cans have a longer expire date than those in plastic bottles
01:21 PM fragalot: does anyone here have a parametric inventor drawing of a nice solid granite mill?
01:21 PM fragalot: (figure I'd ask before I start on one)
01:24 PM MrHindsight: mill to cut granite or mill made from granite? either way I don't have one, just wondering
01:25 PM MrHindsight: most designs here are: find bargain on bearings, ballscrews etc, make drawing to suit
01:25 PM MrHindsight: the design is driven by deals found or items discovered
01:29 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: made from E/G
01:29 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: I know they are - hence the "parametric" aspect
01:30 PM fragalot: draw once, build millions
01:30 PM fragalot: customizable standardisation ftw.
01:33 PM fragalot: parametric 3D model based drawings are the best thing to come to CAD design since the invention of coffee.
01:33 PM Nick-Shop_ is now known as Nick-Shop
01:35 PM MrHindsight: I think I've been using that CAD stuff on and off for a while
01:35 PM MrHindsight: it's like drafting only on the computer
01:38 PM fragalot: I used to be a power user at my previous position at work
01:38 PM fragalot: if you spend a few hours extra on a drawing you end up saving weeks of time down the road if it's something reusable
01:39 PM roycroft: i really like parametric cad, but i still struggle with it
01:39 PM roycroft: i end up not using the parametric features and going back to traditional drafting
01:39 PM fragalot: there's one part that we make dozens of variations of per week, custom ordered.. takes 5 minutes of effort to put out the full drawing set for sign-off, production & QC
01:39 PM MrHindsight: http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/ ever find anything of use here?
01:40 PM roycroft: the biggest issue when sketching is that i'll sketch something that's the approximate shape i need
01:40 PM roycroft: and then start dimensioning
01:40 PM fragalot: roycroft: how is that an issue?
01:40 PM fragalot: that's how I work too, except the dimensions i enter are based on parameters
01:40 PM roycroft: but almost invariably, one dimension will move a line too var, and when i dimension the line that was adjacent to it that dimension goes in the opposite direction
01:40 PM roycroft: if that makes any sense
01:40 PM fragalot: those parameters could be X_rail, which combined with X_carriage_size would give you X_max_travel, etc
01:41 PM fragalot: haha,.. yeah that can happen
01:41 PM roycroft: and it's mostly a scaling thing
01:41 PM roycroft: i draw something that fits on the screen
01:41 PM roycroft: but when dimensioned it's much larger than the screen
01:41 PM roycroft: i don't know how to recover from it
01:42 PM roycroft: i end up redrawing much of it at that point
01:42 PM fragalot: ctrl-z, increase the other dimension first
01:42 PM MrHindsight: https://grabcad.com/library
01:42 PM roycroft: so my normal way is to draw a line, constrain it, draw the next line, constrain it, etc.
01:42 PM roycroft: which defeats much of the purpose of parametric sketching
01:42 PM fragalot: only constrain what must be constrained
01:42 PM roycroft: it's again an experience thing
01:43 PM roycroft: i constrain with a dimension when i do that
01:43 PM roycroft: that's what i mean
01:43 PM fragalot: then put a variable in instead of a real dimension
01:43 PM roycroft: draw first line
01:43 PM fragalot: saves you time if that dimension has other children
01:43 PM fragalot: or parents
01:43 PM roycroft: constrain to be coincident with origin
01:43 PM roycroft: dimension
01:43 PM roycroft: draw second line
01:43 PM roycroft: dimension
01:43 PM roycroft: draw third line
01:43 PM roycroft: dimension
01:43 PM roycroft: etc.
01:44 PM roycroft: i did start my solidworks reeducation program last night
01:44 PM roycroft: i.e. i took out my textbook and started working through chapter one again :)
01:44 PM fragalot: haha
01:45 PM roycroft: we paid a lot of money for that software, and i know it will do things that i need to do that are unwieldy with 2d cad
01:45 PM roycroft: so i want to make it work for me
01:45 PM fragalot: I just like how in today's world, customizing things that are made-to-order has become so easy
01:45 PM roycroft: yes, and i need to be able to do that
01:46 PM roycroft: not necessarily exactly that
01:46 PM roycroft: but design a product and add a bunch of options to it
01:46 PM roycroft: that can easily be generated by changing some variables
01:46 PM fragalot: open excel sheet, enter the required sizes or variations, Inventor automatically builds the BOM, gives you a 3D dimensioned model for the customer to sign off, and 2D production drawings to check if the STL that got exported has been fed to the laser cutter & automatic sheet metal bender robot thingymajigger
01:47 PM fragalot: plus you get nice statistical data of how heavy it'd be
01:47 PM fragalot: or where the center of gravity is for shipping
01:47 PM roycroft: yup - sw can do all that
01:48 PM fragalot: Aye, I just use Inventor because that's what I know, and that's what I have a license for :P
01:48 PM roycroft: i'm at a point where there are things that sw can do that will be 10x faster than how i do it now, but it would take me 20x longer to do it in sw because i don't know the softwrare well enough
01:48 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm not trying to make any claim that sw is better or worse than inventor
01:48 PM fragalot: don't get me wrong, it can be a frustrating steamy pile of ..
01:48 PM roycroft: we're talking about parametric cad in general
01:48 PM fragalot: exactly
01:49 PM fragalot: use what you have, and what you know
01:49 PM roycroft: i just happen to have a sw license
01:49 PM roycroft: and you just happen to have an inventor license
01:49 PM fragalot: at home i'm currently dabbling a bit in fusion360
01:49 PM roycroft: that's the end of the comparison conversation :)
01:49 PM roycroft: i'm offline too much for that to work for me
01:49 PM fragalot: it's.... frustrating because none of the buttons are in the right place
01:49 PM roycroft: plus, i don't like the idea of storing *my* data in someone else's cloud
01:49 PM fragalot: same
01:50 PM roycroft: i do most of my work in autocad now
01:50 PM fragalot: i'm just using it for home use though with one-off parts
01:50 PM fragalot: so I don't care if I lose anything
01:50 PM fragalot: nor do I care if it gets "stolen"
01:50 PM roycroft: and i thought fusion360 might be an easier migration path than sw for the autocad drawings
01:50 PM fragalot: haha. no.
01:50 PM roycroft: i can tell you, when i import a dwg into sw it's butt-ugly and mostly useless
01:50 PM fragalot: it's frustratingly simplified
01:50 PM roycroft: dimensions are totally wrong
01:50 PM fragalot: that sounds like a setting issue
01:51 PM roycroft: i've been looking for a scaling setting in the import wizard but i haven't found one
01:51 PM fragalot: dwg's by themselves have no real concept of "dimension" if I recall correclty
01:51 PM roycroft: yes
01:51 PM roycroft: they are unit-based
01:51 PM roycroft: my dimensions are not off by a factor of 25.4 though
01:51 PM fragalot: 2.54?
01:51 PM roycroft: they're off by some random factor
01:51 PM fragalot: oh that's useful
01:51 PM roycroft: no multiple of 25.4
01:52 PM roycroft: something that's 11.5 inches in autocad imports as 0.001974264 or something in sw
01:52 PM MarcelineVQ: what a silly measurement, who would invent such a thing :>
01:52 PM roycroft: THE FRENCH!
01:52 PM fragalot: hahaha
01:53 PM roycroft: lineweights are all screwed up on the import
01:53 PM roycroft: layers don't import properly
01:53 PM roycroft: it's really pretty bad
01:53 PM fragalot: lol
01:53 PM fragalot: serves you right for importing a proprietary autodesk format
01:53 PM roycroft: it's easier to just redraw in sw than to try to "fix up" the dwg
01:53 PM fragalot: can you export to DXF instead?
01:54 PM roycroft: i can, and i don't recall if i've tried importing dfx into sw
01:54 PM roycroft: dfx is fairly portable, but usually fairly lossy, in my experience
01:54 PM roycroft: i.e. what it imports is accurate, but some things get left behind
01:54 PM fragalot: to be honest, I find myself drawing a lot of parts in Inventor because the downloaded versions are incorrect
01:54 PM fragalot: yeah
01:55 PM roycroft: i should try importing a dfx into sw to see if at least the scaling issue is resolved
01:55 PM roycroft: i doubt it will be though, since as you said earlier, autocad is unitless
01:55 PM fragalot: autocad isn't
01:55 PM roycroft: something that is 1 unit in autocad is 1 unit
01:55 PM roycroft: it's not 1 inch or 1 mm
01:55 PM roycroft: it's 1 unit
01:55 PM roycroft: it could be 1 furlong if that's what you fancy
01:56 PM fragalot: dwg, dxf and stl and the likes are units
01:56 PM MarcelineVQ: cubits or bust
01:56 PM fragalot: which is great when you 3D print something
01:56 PM fragalot: "oh that part looks fine, *print*"
01:56 PM fragalot: well that finished quick..
01:56 PM fragalot: oh.
01:56 PM roycroft: that's in the layout though, isn't it?
01:56 PM roycroft: the model is still unitless, is it not?
01:56 PM fragalot: or vice versa.. "good god why is it taking so long, also why is my print spool empty?"
01:56 PM fragalot: yes
01:57 PM roycroft: i don't import layouts into sw - i import models
01:57 PM roycroft: well, i really don't import anything
01:57 PM roycroft: but in the past i've attempted to import models
02:01 PM fragalot: I really hope fusion360 doesn't have a parameter or parameter expression limit
02:02 PM fragalot: because the expressions are stacking up quick, lol
02:04 PM gregcnc_: being good at anything isn't easy if you don't spend 20+hr a week at it
02:04 PM fragalot: I'm not "good"
02:04 PM fragalot: I know enough to be dangerous with most things
02:08 PM roycroft: that's a big part of my problem, gregcnc_
02:08 PM roycroft: i don't work with sw enough to be really "good" at it
02:08 PM roycroft: and it's been 7-8 years since i had my sw training
02:08 PM gregcnc_: avoiding it doesn't help the situation though
02:09 PM roycroft: well i got out the textbook last night and started working through it
02:09 PM gregcnc_: I find SW extremely intuitive tough.
02:09 PM roycroft: and i'm going to try to spend at least an hour, and hopefully 2 hours, every night on it
02:09 PM roycroft: autocad is more intuitive to me
02:10 PM roycroft: but that could be because i've been using it for so long
02:10 PM gregcnc_: I walked into a shop not having touched SW since version 2000 back in 2007 and drove their SW and got the job on the spot.
02:12 PM djdelorie: I recall interviewing a guy that way... "here's a desktop, prove you can use it."
02:15 PM fragalot: roycroft: if it's been 8 years, throw out your textbook and get a new one
02:15 PM gregcnc_: if the text is the same vintage as his SW it should be fine
02:15 PM fragalot: true.
02:15 PM gregcnc_: otherwise get something to match
02:17 PM gregcnc_: i occasionally look up a tutorial or a similar part on grabcad, but some of them are poor or not what you expect
02:17 PM fragalot: a lot*
02:17 PM gregcnc_: probably, it's rare that I do that
02:18 PM fragalot: I prefer partcommunity as it's more of the actual manufacturer's drawings on there
02:19 PM gregcnc_: I usually only look when I'm stumped on how to get a complex shape.
02:19 PM MrHindsight: https://b2b.partcommunity.com/community/
02:19 PM fragalot: same, if it's a simple square block.. draw it
02:20 PM fragalot: if it's got a lot of ports,.. download but verify
02:20 PM fragalot: then draw anyway
02:20 PM MrHindsight: and the most humorous by far! https://www.thingiverse.com/
02:20 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: that's the one
02:20 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: don't you mean dongiverse?
02:21 PM fragalot: http://www.dongiverse.com/
02:21 PM MrHindsight: you don't see this anywhere else https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:199786
02:21 PM fragalot: hahaha
02:22 PM gregcnc_: oh capt by kid got a "3D" pen kit for christmas. UV cure resin in rubber bladder pens, with a UV LED that slips over teh tip. What a riot
02:22 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: brilliant
02:23 PM fragalot: how long 'till the kid squeezes out the resin when the battery's dead?
02:23 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: let me know if you need more resin
02:24 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: how well does it work?
02:24 PM gregcnc_: we haven't tried yet
02:25 PM gregcnc_: probably this weekend
02:25 PM gregcnc_: reviews indicate it may be disaster
02:25 PM MrHindsight: just avoid touching it until it's cured
02:25 PM gregcnc_: that's the main gripe: kids and touching
02:26 PM MrHindsight: have them wear gloves
02:26 PM fragalot: xD
02:26 PM MrHindsight: cheapo at HF
02:26 PM gregcnc_: yeah i have a case of glvoes
02:26 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: I'll repeat my advice I said before to miss0r
02:26 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: livestream it on youtube for us bored folk
02:26 PM gregcnc_: lol
02:27 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: I'll give you a gallon of the resin to play with
02:27 PM fragalot: make sure to use it all at once
02:28 PM gregcnc_: warnings say things do not get ink on skin in direct sunlight or burns may occur
02:31 PM MrHindsight: it's exothermic when it cures
02:31 PM gregcnc_: http://www.ido3dart.com/products/
02:31 PM MrHindsight: before curing it can cause rashes
02:33 PM MrHindsight: they most likely use monomers and oligomers that are approved for denta/med applications but they can still cause an allergic reaction
02:34 PM MrHindsight: when I was a kid my brother and I basically had beds in a chem lab, and look how I turned out :)
02:36 PM gregcnc_: were you working a DLP printer a while back? it's still something that I think about for small castings
02:37 PM MrHindsight: I have a bunch of those
02:37 PM fragalot_: I hate how closign the laptop lid INSTANTLY puts it to sleep
02:38 PM fragalot_: yet I don't want to disable it as I do want it to go to sleep eventually
02:38 PM MrHindsight: DLP, LCD and laser galvo SLA and SLS
02:38 PM fragalot_: >.>
02:38 PM fragalot_: I had a DLP but couldn't stand the mess
02:38 PM MrHindsight: fragalot_: no power management settings to stop that?
02:38 PM fragalot_: MrHindsight: stop it? yes. make it do what I want? no.
02:39 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
02:39 PM fragalot: away I go :D
02:50 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ivFpsmEVQ
03:17 PM roycroft: so over lunch i did some reading on sw vs inventor
03:17 PM roycroft: inventor seems to handle dwg better than sw, from what i've read
03:17 PM roycroft: but is generally behind sw by quite a bit when it comes to features
03:18 PM roycroft: plus, i don't have an inventor license, and that's expensive
03:20 PM roycroft: so i think i'll not consider the inventor route
03:32 PM gloops: the first english made carbon composite McLaren sports car chassis will come off the production line next year
03:32 PM gloops: this is leaps and bounds ahead of the game
03:33 PM gloops: carbonfibre chassis compensates for the battery mass in a fully electrified vehicle
03:33 PM sync: is it leaps ahead?
03:34 PM roycroft: leaps ahead of stonware vehicles :)
03:34 PM gloops: im not saying its unique
03:34 PM roycroft: stoneware
03:34 PM gloops: you can lift this up over your head
03:38 PM gloops: also for british machine makers - poundland has a nut and bolt selection box, various lengths m3-m5 150 pieces £1
03:41 PM gloops: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d2/06/c1/d206c10910d332c87b360c8292d906b4--sportcars-carbon-fiber.jpg
03:52 PM roycroft: this looks like a nice little lathe
03:52 PM roycroft: https://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/d/hardinge-dv-59-dsm-59-lathe/6448113567.html
03:54 PM gregcnc_: for production or 2nd op
03:55 PM gloops: http://www.lathes.co.uk/hardinge3/
03:56 PM gloops: ive got something that would fit that
03:57 PM Deejay: gn8
04:02 PM Crom: final 2 Steppers arrived NEMA 24 iHSS60-36-30's 485oz in
04:03 PM gloops: what are these for again Crom?
04:04 PM Crom: Sieg X2 cnc conversion
04:04 PM gloops: ahh yes
04:04 PM gloops: 2mm pitch screws?
04:04 PM Crom: Wednesday ordering 3 more for the RongFu RF-31 conversion
04:05 PM Crom: I think cncfusion uses 0.200" pitch ball screws
04:06 PM gloops: well those motors should be well strong enough
04:06 PM Crom: integrated closed loop steppers.
04:07 PM gloops: thats what you want
04:09 PM gregcnc_: what is the encoder resolution if they do 51,200 usteps?
04:11 PM Crom: so the NEMA 23 285oz in motors iHSS57-36-20 motors I have on the cnc 3040, are amazing! I've gotten 140in/min out of them. I can almost treat them as 425oz in motors, since they have position feed back. The 3Nm motors can basically be treated as NEMA34 700oz in motors
04:13 PM Crom: jeeze... guy arrested for using a drone to deliver drugs from his house to a nearby parking lot.
04:14 PM gloops: very common now
04:15 PM gloops: they use them to fly drugs into gaol
04:22 PM gloops: Crom are the closed loop motors 3000rpm?
04:26 PM phipli: Evening folks
04:50 PM MrHindsight: Crom: he probably didn't want to get fined for flying a drove beyond his range of site :)
04:52 PM gregcnc_: i'm sure if he registered the drone this wouldn't have happened, or maybe it's why he got caught, was his ID on it?
04:53 PM MrHindsight: I now wonder how often they are used this way in cities
04:53 PM MrHindsight: remember when they got rid of all the pay phones in cities "drug" areas?
04:55 PM gloops: Julian Assange Cleared Of All Charges, Trump Set To Pardon
04:56 PM MrHindsight: have a link?
04:56 PM gloops: only infowars lol
04:57 PM gloops: https://www.infowars.com/julian-assange-cleared-of-all-charges-trump-set-to-pardon/
04:57 PM gregcnc_: meltdown and spectre are curious
04:58 PM roycroft: gloops: it's not 1 april yet :)
04:58 PM gloops: for services against the hillary campaign maybe?
05:00 PM * gloops wanders off to read
05:03 PM MrHindsight: you can't pardon someone that hasn't been tried and found guilty
05:05 PM MrHindsight: one of the reasons Obama mentioned for not acting on Snowden
05:09 PM jdh: you have to know your target audience
05:42 PM jym: JT-Shop: I have an older version of it, ut for $13 and no labor, it's not half bad. Could always return it too... https://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html
05:43 PM jym: JT-Shop: Just hang an empty coffee can above it for waterproofing
05:44 PM jym: JT-Shop: That's what the barber I goto has to tell him someone drives into the parking lot
05:49 PM jym: I cna nenver remeber the mask ratings, https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/resources/dust-masks-whats-the-difference.html
05:50 PM jym: N<P
05:50 PM jym: N=NOT, P=PROOF, easy enough to remember =)
06:36 PM skunkworks_: jthornton, fusion 360 runs pretty good in virtualbox - but virtualbox doesn't seem to play well with my laptop and rt_preempt
06:37 PM skunkworks_: so - I am using kvm - it is usable - but the video emulation isn't as good - or I cannot figure out how to make it better
06:38 PM skunkworks_: no matter what i have tried - fusion doesn't seem more than 128mb video memory. Google has failed me so far.
06:38 PM skunkworks_: *see more
06:38 PM XXCoder: skunkworks_: you can edit file to use 256 mb
06:39 PM XXCoder: but no more than 256 mb because they hardcoded that in
06:39 PM skunkworks_: windows sees 256 - fusion only sees 128
06:39 PM XXCoder: oh thats weird
06:39 PM XXCoder: too bad we cant use more than 256!
06:46 PM roycroft: you can! just buy some real 3d cad software! :)
06:47 PM XXCoder: fusion 360 is real cad.
06:47 PM skunkworks_: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/kvm.png
06:47 PM skunkworks_: Like I say - it runs pretty good in virtualbox.
06:47 PM XXCoder: may be driver issue
06:48 PM XXCoder: it doesnt for me. wonder why
08:06 PM MrHindsight: anyone work with the newer home automation controls besides the Apple or Google devices?
08:06 PM MrHindsight: AC switches and receptacles etc
08:08 PM MrHindsight: updated X10 devices that don't use any Cloud
08:08 PM skunkworks_: I use linuxcnc..
08:09 PM skunkworks_: (just kidding..)
08:09 PM MrHindsight: :)
08:10 PM XXCoder: cloud sucks
08:10 PM roycroft: i think part of my non-enchantment with solidworks is due to my running it on my laptop most of the time, which has a trackpad
08:10 PM roycroft: the trackpad is fine for autocad, but probably more unwieldy for sw than a proper mouse
08:12 PM MrHindsight: https://home-assistant.io/ https://www.openhab.org/ have all the front end
08:12 PM MrHindsight: but I'm looking for simple AC power switching devices
08:13 PM * roycroft would like to start getting x10 modulesfor some of his stuff
08:13 PM roycroft: NOT cloud-based
08:13 PM roycroft: NOT apple
08:13 PM roycroft: or any other proprietary vendor
08:13 PM MrHindsight: yeah, just linux
08:13 PM roycroft: i don't care if it runs on mac os or not
08:13 PM roycroft: as long as apple don't get their fingers in it
08:14 PM MrHindsight: but are there any devices that drop into standard 4" boxes that network over the AC lines and switch loads on and off?
08:14 PM MrHindsight: like X10
08:14 PM * roycroft remembers that years ago (mid-1990s) there was a person on #unix on efnet who had a home automation system
08:14 PM roycroft: he had a public website with an interface he wrote to it
08:14 PM roycroft: we used to turn his lights of all the time :)
08:15 PM MrHindsight: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Main_Page is another
08:15 PM roycroft: that is something i will not do
08:15 PM roycroft: an iphone app to interface with the home automation system would be nice though
08:16 PM roycroft: i can put the controller in private address space and vpn in with the phone to run the app
08:27 PM MrHindsight: malcom2073: yeah, those prices look right
08:27 PM malcom2073: Dunno about getting them from aliexpress
08:28 PM malcom2073: But that device should be in the $15-$20 range
08:28 PM malcom2073: if you get it from the company who makes them
08:28 PM malcom2073: USD
08:28 PM XXCoder: cheap but dunno also
08:28 PM XXCoder: what if they use some sort added in stuff in it
08:28 PM MrHindsight: I want AC switches that fit into 4" boxes
08:28 PM MrHindsight: not really concerned about fire
08:29 PM malcom2073: Some redditers have done reviews on them, breaking them down and pushing them to failure
08:29 PM malcom2073: they're fairly robust
08:29 PM malcom2073: MrHindsight: They have outlet versions I think?
08:29 PM malcom2073: https://www.itead.cc/smart-home.html
08:29 PM MrHindsight: I'd rather have in box/inline
08:29 PM malcom2073: Ignore their cloud shit, I don't use their firmware heh
08:29 PM malcom2073: They default to connecting to their "service" that you can log into and use apps etc etc
08:29 PM XXCoder: oh replace firmware is possible
08:30 PM malcom2073: XXCoder: Yes! and encouraged by them
08:30 PM MrHindsight: looks small enough to fit inside light fixtures
08:30 PM XXCoder: MrHindsight: yep! considering some options
08:30 PM malcom2073: They even have light fixture versions
08:30 PM malcom2073: I have a small server running on a pi at my house, I send HTTP post requests to turn devices on and off
08:30 PM malcom2073: So it's all local
08:31 PM XXCoder: how secure is that firmware, because I cringe on how badky secured some internet stuff is
08:31 PM MrHindsight: I want to zone highbay lights without having to run switch legs everywhere
08:31 PM malcom2073: XXCoder: Theirs? Totally not secure
08:31 PM malcom2073: Hence why I replaced it
08:32 PM malcom2073: Actually I don't know
08:32 PM malcom2073: it may be very secure, I didn't even try it
08:32 PM XXCoder: 7 pictures of essently barely rotating it lol
08:32 PM malcom2073: My internet isn't reliable enough to use their services anyway
08:32 PM MrHindsight: https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-rf.html <$10
08:32 PM XXCoder: weird thing is it never shows other side LOL
08:32 PM malcom2073: MrHindsight: There ya go
08:33 PM malcom2073: Research the aftermarket firmware options, make sure it's within your skill set to load/use it
08:33 PM XXCoder: theres RF remote nice
08:33 PM MrHindsight: I'd think Google would just about give these away in exchange for spying on you
08:33 PM XXCoder: malcom what did you do to flash it? just connect to usb and load or what
08:35 PM malcom2073: XXCoder: There is an over-the-air updater someone wrote, so you can write new firmware (using the ESP development environment) then load it using that
08:35 PM Tom_L: is the uploader separate from the firmware?
08:35 PM MrHindsight: they have non-wifi versions as well
08:36 PM Tom_L: you could botch your firmware if you try to mod it...
08:36 PM malcom2073: Tom_L: It was written by someone else, wait one
08:36 PM malcom2073: Of course you could botch your firmware
08:36 PM MrHindsight: 433MHz is pretty busy
08:36 PM malcom2073: But you can open it up and hook up a serial terminal, ESP9266's are fairly unbrickable
08:36 PM Tom_L: that's what i wondered
08:36 PM malcom2073: ESP8266*
08:37 PM MrHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESP8266
08:37 PM XXCoder: sonoff temp/humidity sensor nice
08:37 PM malcom2073: https://github.com/mirko/SonOTA
08:37 PM XXCoder: I guess its so it can be used to automate stuff
08:37 PM malcom2073: XXCoder: Yeah I wanna get one of the temp sensors soon
08:37 PM MrHindsight: we are the thermostat since someone is around near 24/7
08:38 PM MrHindsight: but lighting control is handy, when you only need one high bay on vs all
08:38 PM Tom_L: i had i2c temp sensors all over hooked to my server for a while
08:39 PM MrHindsight: I'm surprised that there isn't a microchip version of these products
08:39 PM MrHindsight: I guess they missed the boat
08:41 PM MrHindsight: https://www.microchip.com/design-centers/ethernet/ethernet-devices/applications/automation-access-security/home-automation
08:41 PM MrHindsight: they went with wired networking
08:42 PM malcom2073: Ew
08:42 PM malcom2073: Though new houses often come with ethernet wire
08:42 PM malcom2073: wired*
08:43 PM MrHindsight: when zigbee started up that was supposed to be the end all of this
08:44 PM malcom2073: I remember that
08:44 PM malcom2073: ESP kinda threw that out of the window, with their super low price point
08:46 PM MrHindsight: X10 switches/receptacles are >$30
08:46 PM MrHindsight: thats been around since the late 80's
08:46 PM malcom2073: And then you need a *really* expensive interface to use a computer to talk to them
08:46 PM MrHindsight: and is over power line
08:47 PM malcom2073: Sonoff also has a 433mhz lineup
08:47 PM malcom2073: Instead of wifi
08:49 PM MrHindsight: the Chinese got fed up with paying $20 or more for ARM chips so they just started making their own
08:50 PM MrHindsight: ESP8266 was based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensilica
08:51 PM MrHindsight: ESP8266 WiFi Module (It’s $5)
08:51 PM malcom2073: Yeah, stupid cheap
08:52 PM malcom2073: I got a couple of the single modules, they're nifty
08:52 PM MrHindsight: https://www.seeedstudio.com/WiFi-Serial-Transceiver-Module-w%26amp%3B-ESP8266-1MB-Flash-p-2485.html
08:53 PM malcom2073: Tell me that isn't crazy
09:07 PM XXCoder: wifi to serial commucation heh
09:07 PM XXCoder: use those to control cnc machines without wires ;)
09:13 PM MrHindsight: https://www.seeedstudio.com/WiFi-Serial-Transceiver-Module-w%26-ESP8266-Small-p-2082.html $2.00 @ 1pcs
09:13 PM MrHindsight: sorry $2.99
09:17 PM MrHindsight: and these lost popularity https://www.seeedstudio.com/EMW3165-Cortex-M4-based-WiFi-SoC-Module%E2%80%82%28External-IPEX-antenna%29-p-2497.html
09:19 PM MrHindsight: oh faster version now for $4.50 https://www.seeedstudio.com/EMW3165-p-2488.html?cPath=19_20
09:23 PM roycroft: x10 was a lot more popular and available in the '90s than it is now
09:23 PM roycroft: which is odd
09:35 PM MrHindsight: before X10 we wired all the control lines to SSR's for power control
09:36 PM MrHindsight: all came back to ISA cards in a ~100MHz PC
11:48 PM Crom: interesting find. $120 https://www.amazon.com/Mitac-PD14RI-D-Braswell-Mini-ITX-Motherboard/dp/B01D27AGJ2/ref=sr_1_31?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1515217303&sr=1-31&keywords=mini-itx+fanless+motherboard
11:48 PM Crom: quad core
11:48 PM Crom: supports 8GB
11:49 PM XXCoder: can install something that can do rt on it?