#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 02 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:24 AM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: dunno I suppose it would work but structure would be so full of air bubbles it would not be structurally strong for pringint ice
12:29 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: insulation
12:30 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: need more thicker to make strongerer
01:19 AM IchGucksLive: morning from DE
01:20 AM XXCoder: late afternoon from US
01:24 AM CaptHindsight: -23C fun
01:29 AM Loetmichel: Morning. I just wrote my retroactive paid day off request for the holidays... MAAN, still 16 paid holidays left from 2017... no idea how i can spend them until march 2018 when they will expire. So much work, so few time. :-(
01:29 AM XXCoder: have 2 hours vacation everyday
01:30 AM Loetmichel: not possible
01:31 AM XXCoder: cant have partial holiday eh
01:31 AM Loetmichel: correct
01:32 AM XXCoder: ALL of your vacation expires?
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: i got one year i had all 32days and 270 hr holiday left in Nov
01:33 AM XXCoder: 117 hours vacation for me
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: the Company has been forced me off
01:33 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: nope, only the off days from last year are forfeit at 01 march
01:33 AM XXCoder: doesnt expire
01:34 AM XXCoder: though there is hard limit of 350 hours, it wont increase past that
01:34 AM CaptHindsight: what good are paid vacation days if you can't take them?
01:34 AM CaptHindsight: at least get the pay from them
01:34 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: by law (in germany) the employer is forced to give me off before they expire
01:34 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: some company allow you to get cash payment for vacation hours
01:35 AM XXCoder: dunno germany laws
01:35 AM Loetmichel: but its of no use if there is noone that can do my job at the company and there are that much orders in que
01:35 AM XXCoder: 3 more months before my vacation hours start growing at twice the rate
01:35 AM CaptHindsight: it's not your fault if your employer doesn't have enough people to get the jobs done
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: im off
01:36 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: thats "officially" not possible in germany IIRC. but many companies do it here, too.
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: sounds like manipulation to me
01:36 AM Loetmichel: dont know if i want to go that road though
01:36 AM Loetmichel: the paid holidays are there for a reason... and actually i would really like to have a month off or so
01:37 AM CaptHindsight: you're the only one that can do it so you can't take vacation
01:37 AM CaptHindsight: haha
01:37 AM Loetmichel: just noone left here that could do my work.
01:37 AM CaptHindsight: sorry but thats just manipulation
01:37 AM Loetmichel: i can take vacation. its just unwise. no idea if i come back to a company then.
01:37 AM CaptHindsight: you're a talented guy but they need to find another talented guy
01:38 AM Loetmichel: especially if its a month
01:38 AM XXCoder: capt theres guy like that at shop I work at also. hes only one who knows how to setup a61
01:38 AM CaptHindsight: if you put up with it then your employer will take advantage of you
01:38 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, it's common
01:39 AM XXCoder: so if he was ever quit or fired a61 would stop running
01:39 AM XXCoder: I can run a61 but I cant do setup there
01:39 AM CaptHindsight: I hear this quite often
01:39 AM Loetmichel: i am not that particulary talentet. problem is i am "pretty good" at so many fields that they would have to hire half a dozen other specialists to replace me. even temporaily. thats simply unrealistic
01:39 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: so it falls on you
01:39 AM XXCoder: there was 4 who knew how.
01:40 AM CaptHindsight: then they ought to be paying you for 4 guys pay
01:41 AM Loetmichel: that would be fun ;)
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: I hear about a lot of employers that take advantage of open source types of people
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: they figure that if you write open source then you really aren't interested in getting paid
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: and they feel that they should take advantage of you
01:45 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: you earned your paid vacation
01:45 AM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: I remember one lady who worked for decades at goverment agency, but never had sick days
01:45 AM XXCoder: so she had so many hours she was "sick" for a year
01:46 AM XXCoder: then for last 2 months she used her vacation hours
01:46 AM CaptHindsight: Chicago scool teachers can save them up, they never expire. Some bragged that they could take off an entire paid school year
01:46 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: I dont think my boss is willingly taking advantage. The problem is more that i tend to make myself irreplaceable pretty quick at any company i work for, and as this company is pretty small it takes a bit of "deadline juggling" to get my holidays in.
01:46 AM XXCoder: you need to be a little bit more replacable
01:47 AM XXCoder: go to higher paying job with more people your level
01:47 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: then you should be compensated vs be taken advantage of
01:47 AM CaptHindsight: at least some profit sharing
01:48 AM XXCoder: my coworker had 375 hours in violation of 350 hours limit, so he went on a week vacation, returned a week, then had month long vacation
01:48 AM XXCoder: still have tons hours
01:50 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: if you boss had clients that needed more of something would he do it for free?
01:51 AM CaptHindsight: say a project was for 10 of something and then they need 20 in the same time
01:51 AM CaptHindsight: does he ship them 20 for the price of 10?
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: "oh we didn't plan well, can you make more for free?"
01:54 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: Its a small company, like i like it. Couldnt do the same three things for the rest of my life in a big corp. I just tend to take my responsibilities serious. So while i COULD say: "you are ordered by law to give me my holidays" i tend to think "can the company survive that?"
01:54 AM Loetmichel: so its not the boss who forces that on me, its me.
01:55 AM gloops: thats what i like to see - a company man lol
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: I bet that your boss sees that
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: and know that he can just ignore your vacations and schedule work for you
01:57 AM CaptHindsight: lead time should just be extended by your vacation time
01:58 AM CaptHindsight: so the company can only survive if you get taken advantage of?
01:59 AM CaptHindsight: just an outsiders perspective, what do I know?
02:00 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: partially right.
02:01 AM fragalot: mornin'
02:02 AM gloops: some people dont want days off, they get a day off and its like - what do i do?
02:02 AM gloops: personally ive never loved work that much
02:02 AM Loetmichel: gloops: i have no problems with that. more than enough hobbies ;)
02:03 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: is there such a thing?
02:03 AM fragalot: one of my hobbies appears to be starting new hobbies
02:04 AM Deejay: moin
02:04 AM gloops: im just thinking of someone i know Loetmichel, he is a foreman, i think he is nowhere happier than at work
02:04 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: in between building CNC machines, making and flying multicopters, electronics, 3dgaming, car improvements... i am pretty good with wasting time ;)
02:05 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: but you aren't rock climbing or shooting airguns yet
02:05 AM Loetmichel: gloops: my official title is "production manager".. about the only thing i dont do here ;)
02:06 AM gloops: well managers are expected to go the extra mile
02:06 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: 128kg at 180cm height... no rock climbing for me. no riding either, (poor horse)... airguns... may be. i once was in a "schützenverein" and have shot a colt.45 replica for quite some time
02:07 AM fragalot: similar situation here, used to go rock climbing but stopped ~5yrs ago.. Don't think i'd still make it to the top (damn office jobs)
02:08 AM fragalot: at least, that's my excuse
02:09 AM fragalot: as for the multicopters, that ground to a halt when a cow ate my tricopter after a blade came loose mid-flight
02:10 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: wrong blades then. the copter is supposed to eat the cow ;9
02:10 AM fragalot: found it in a field where it still looked fully intact, so I walked to the gate to go and get it where I was greeted with a herd of happy cows.. Little did I know that they were distracting me while one of their buddies ate one of the motors
02:10 AM gloops: hobbies are great so long as you dont start building machines
02:11 AM fragalot: that's why I tell people to build machines at work instead, gloops :D
02:15 AM Loetmichel: gloops: you are only a real "handyman" when you catch yourself building a jig to make a part thats needed to hold a workpiece that will be a machine to make a part which has a use you have forgotten by now.
02:15 AM gloops: it always takes 3 times longer, costs 3 times as much, becomes less enjoyable by the day and often doesnt work
02:15 AM Loetmichel: :-)
02:15 AM gloops: yes that kind of thing Loet heh
02:18 AM gloops: but as Winston Churchill said 'Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm'
02:20 AM fragalot: so as long as I continue to be enthousiastic making mistakes, they can't fire me because i'm one of the most successful employees?
02:26 AM gloops: yes so long as you dont give up
02:29 AM Skullworks: must be a .gov job
02:29 AM fragalot: lol
02:30 AM fragalot: well we do have a minister of finance that thought our budget for next year was fine because 3+3=9 and we should all learn math.
02:32 AM Skullworks: When I mess up on the job the boss takes it very personnally.
02:33 AM gloops: Skullworks most bosses are narcissistic psychopaths
02:33 AM Skullworks: but being basically self employed I somehow get throught it.
02:34 AM * Skullworks denies any narcissism...
02:35 AM fragalot: gloops: most, but not all. I think of myself as a benevolent god.
02:37 AM * gloops notes only the bosses feel the need to justify their actions
02:37 AM fragalot: they also expect you to justify yours.
02:38 AM Skullworks: I just need to find someone to look over my shoulder ready to yell STOP as I finish trying to wire up my LCNC retrofit.
02:40 AM gloops: yes, ive setting myself a target of 2 days to get this thing ready for painting, then its reassemble and all systems go
02:40 AM fragalot: haha
02:40 AM gloops: just one more cup of tea first
02:40 AM fragalot: I too have found that I wouldn't mind having someone tell me to stop fiddling with it before I make it worse and having to start over again
02:41 AM fragalot: "just a wee bit more.....*plink*"
02:43 AM Skullworks: me - I have too many different control voltages that don't match up. 5VDC outputs on the limit switches, 24VDC on many others, and 120VAC on the ice cube relays.
02:54 AM gloops: if a timing pulley is running slightly off centre, does that affect the position?
02:55 AM gloops: yes
02:55 AM Loetmichel: gloops: yes, slightly ad repeatedly
02:55 AM gloops: yes it would
02:55 AM Loetmichel: every turn you get a "sine wave"
02:55 AM Loetmichel: with increasing/decreasing position error
02:55 AM fragalot: yup.
02:56 AM gloops: i think one ballscrew is machined off centre, can see it
02:57 AM gloops: may also affect vibration
02:59 AM gloops: or will it affect position? cant get my head round this
02:59 AM gloops: one pulley cannot lost position with the other
02:59 AM gloops: it will affect tension
03:00 AM fragalot: it pulls the belt on one side only
03:00 AM fragalot: so if it's off-center, it will "cam" further, and therefore pull the belt slightly further
03:00 AM fragalot: depending on the diameter and how far off-center it is, the effect on positional accuracy will vary
03:00 AM gloops: hmm
03:03 AM archivist: probably less than it matters for wood
03:04 AM gloops: true but it mounts up, 0.05 here, 0.05 there = half a mm
03:05 AM fragalot: gloops: are you the belgian minister of finance?
03:05 AM fragalot: :D
03:06 AM gloops: just saying, its probably better to try and eliminate what you can find, there will be other small errors as well that seem nothing - but all add up to something
03:07 AM fragalot: very true.
03:08 AM fragalot: is the other end of the ballscrew true? or could you machine it down?
03:12 AM gloops: i cant machine the screws too long, ill have a look at tightening the pulley against the wobble, its not much but you can just see something isnt running true
03:13 AM Loetmichel: how about making/drilling a pulley ever so much "off center" that it canceles out?
03:14 AM gloops: yeah thats what im thinking Loet something like that
03:14 AM fragalot: don't forget to break a tap off-center too to balance it. :)
03:15 AM gloops: or file the motor shaft so it wobbles in tandem
03:15 AM gloops: lol
03:16 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: that reminds me of my first apprenticeship... had a fellow apprentice... ordered to tap a 10mm thick steel plate... with a hand tap... he turns and turns and turns... i was like "hey, dont you want to turn back once to breap the chi*KNACK* ah, forget it!"
03:16 AM XXCoder: guy broke tap?
03:16 AM Loetmichel: it was an M12 tap...
03:16 AM Loetmichel: yes
03:17 AM Loetmichel: he one-handedly broke off an M12 tap.
03:17 AM Loetmichel: there was a reason we called him "balu" ;)
03:18 AM XXCoder: geez!
03:18 AM MarcelineVQ: probably broke it from the 1-hand more than the not-breaking when it comes to 10mm
03:18 AM MarcelineVQ: *not-chip-breaking
03:18 AM XXCoder: we have machine taps that have ran for thousands of parts
03:18 AM XXCoder: and he broke it by hand?
03:19 AM XXCoder: we do replace certain tap often but then its 4-40
03:19 AM XXCoder: very fine thread
03:19 AM Loetmichel: additionally to his "slight overpowerdness" ha also was a bit slow..
03:19 AM Loetmichel: he just didnt notice that something blocked inside the hole
03:20 AM XXCoder: so was it cleaned out and properly tapped?
03:21 AM Loetmichel: same guy needed one hammer hit to "center punch" thru a 4mm thick hot rolled sheet.
03:21 AM XXCoder: pre-drilled lol
03:21 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: he made a new plate from scratch
03:21 AM Loetmichel: it was an apprentice workpiece
03:21 AM Loetmichel: not productions
03:21 AM XXCoder: doh
03:23 AM fragalot: lol
03:24 AM fragalot: the best way to learn is to make little mistakes like that though
03:24 AM fragalot: otherwise you end up always reversing the tap, never knowing why, and wasting time on a "self-clearing" machine tap
03:25 AM XXCoder: experence is directly proprual with ruined projects
03:25 AM fragalot: :D
03:41 AM * Skullworks has to bail - have to teach people how to boot from USB in the morning.
03:57 AM fragalot: Just got off the phone with the Syil distributor.. VAT is killing me once again :<
04:06 AM * fragalot thinks he'll simply DIY an epoxy- granite build
04:26 AM gloops: everybody devises ways of making a mill bed and column with various materials, i wonder how much it would cost to have the block cast - just one lump column and bed, only needs machining - hiwin rails on youre away
04:27 AM XXCoder: expoxy grinite may well be cheapest way to do so
04:28 AM archivist: usually made from a few castings
04:28 AM XXCoder: expecially if you buy rotten grinite from say lowes and clean and sort em into sizes and add some sizes like sand or glass powder
04:29 AM archivist: but... you need a bigger machine to machine it on
04:29 AM XXCoder: well could cast with mount surfaces in it, then use file flattening and parallel setup
04:29 AM XXCoder: dunno how hard it'd be
04:30 AM gloops: and there are plenty of old machines on the market already
04:31 AM * fragalot is from europe - no "lowes" here
04:32 AM XXCoder: yeah I meant some sort of home improvement stores
04:33 AM fragalot: I'd love to simply start from old iron, but alas my resources don't allow for that due to space & weight restrictions
04:33 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alpine-PDM-25-240v-Drilling-Milling-Machine-Plus-150-cutters-and-accessories/122877376223?
04:33 AM fragalot: so casting the base in a granite epoxy solves both those problems.. easy to transport, and I can make it whatever size I have available
04:33 AM XXCoder: gloops: looks very convertable I would think. could be wrong
04:33 AM gloops: would guess so
04:33 AM fragalot: I might as well start with the RF45 then
04:34 AM jthornton: 2°F
04:34 AM XXCoder: experts may say otherwise. archivist ?
04:34 AM fragalot: jthornton: bless you
04:35 AM XXCoder: jthornton: mine is at whole 30 degrees higher lol
04:35 AM XXCoder: barely frosting
04:38 AM fragalot: quite warm here, been running in & out the shed to put some window trim on in my tshirt today
04:40 AM archivist: that alpine is a bag-o-shite
04:40 AM archivist: I had one
04:41 AM archivist: they were less money new!
04:42 AM XXCoder: that drill press with addons?
04:42 AM XXCoder: ah yes it is
04:42 AM archivist: round column means no sensible Z
04:46 AM archivist: the spindle was not perpendicular to the table either
04:47 AM XXCoder: no way to tune spin alignment of spindle?
04:49 AM archivist: waste of time with a round column
05:51 AM Tom_L: 9F
05:59 AM jthornton: 1°F
06:00 AM skunkworks: -11
06:04 AM jthornton: skunkworks: does the lowpass just smooth out the signal from the THCAD?
06:04 AM enleth: miss0rs VFD
06:04 AM enleth: gah
06:04 AM gloops: yesterday some pop cans and bicycle bits, today precision pulley bore reducers http://picpaste.com/insert_008-a4jWaKmS.JPG
06:04 AM enleth: miss0r's VFD arrived and he's nowhere to be found to thank him
06:05 AM gloops: his vfd blew up enleth lol
06:05 AM enleth: wat
06:05 AM gloops: http://picpaste.com/insert_009-RevpxAGG.JPG
06:06 AM gloops: i should be working on jet fighters
06:14 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/waterer/vert-nipple01.jpg
06:14 AM jthornton: I worked on a plastic bucket
06:14 AM skunkworks: jthornton, yes
06:14 AM gloops: drinker?
06:14 AM jthornton: yea
06:15 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/waterer/vert-nipple02.jpg
06:15 AM jthornton: had to insulate the nipples so they won't freeze
06:15 AM jthornton: well see if it worked in a bit
06:15 AM gloops: should work
06:18 AM gloops: i wonder how good those solar pond heater things are
06:19 AM gloops: supposed to keep pond from freezing over
06:19 AM jthornton: I've not seen one, got a link?
06:19 AM archivist: you need a heater to melt the snow off the solar cell
06:21 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solar-Panel-Powered-Water-Feature-Pump-Garden-Pool-Pond-Aquarium-Fountain-200L-H/263021178755?
06:21 AM gloops: ahh theyre floating ones, they do do corded ones though
06:22 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BERMUDA-150w-FLOATING-POND-HEATER-5mt-CABLE-BRASS-ELEMENT-1-year-guarantee/131762055344?
06:23 AM jthornton: that would make a really cool ice mountain lol
06:23 AM gloops: i suppose if you have power available a normal fish tank heater would do
06:23 AM jthornton: floating stock tank de-icer
06:24 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/waterer/vert-nipple03.jpg
06:24 AM jthornton: cut a bucket to go over the nipples
06:26 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/waterer/vert-nipple04.jpg
06:26 AM jthornton: then used a submerged 250 watt heater
06:27 AM gloops: yeah that should be ok
06:27 AM jthornton: dawn in 20 minutes, I'll collect some eggs and check it
06:53 AM jthornton: gloops: yep the nipples are not frozen :)
07:29 AM fragalot: Well this is mildly annoying
07:29 AM fragalot: cellar's flooded
07:41 AM fragalot: brilliant watching vids about people making their own granite CNC.. "so first I cast the bed, and then i milled all the reference surfaces on my Haas CNC mill"
07:46 AM gloops: Toms probably got the right idea - box section
07:48 AM fragalot: probably yeah
07:49 AM gloops: or some H section
07:50 AM fragalot: I think box is better
07:50 AM fragalot: but I'm still partial to the granite idea
07:50 AM fragalot: seems like a much more rigid starting point to make something capable of cutting steel
07:50 AM gloops: i think miss0r made one, or made the bed and column anyway, he has got a fair sized mill though
07:51 AM fragalot: and it's easier for me to get than box section (unless I get it pre-cut, I have no way of transporting it, plus working a fulltime job is not quite compatible with the opening hours of the local steel suppliers)
07:52 AM gloops: someone in here tried casting the rails into a surface, that didnt work too well i dont think
07:53 AM fragalot: that's why you cast steel into the base so you can scrape it in afterwards
07:53 AM fragalot: if you can't make it accurately, make it adjustable :D
07:53 AM gloops: its easy enough to cast crude objects, get some resin and practise, empty margarine tub is a good practise mold
07:54 AM fragalot: baby steps seem like a good plan.
07:54 AM gloops: got some draft on it
07:54 AM gloops: you have to be a bit careful with the amount of catalyst, it can get hot and crack, moreso with bigger mass things
07:55 AM fragalot: given the size of the casting, I want something super slow anyway
07:58 AM gloops: probably some videos on youtube, fireplace makers
07:58 AM gloops: tombstones
08:12 AM JT-Shopp: gotta love those emails "why has my package not been delivered?" dunno it's been in your country for 2 weeks, how would I know?
08:14 AM cradek: sometimes if a package gets stuck in customs, only the sender has the power to figure out why and fix it
08:15 AM cradek: but yeah if it's on the road or in a sorting center somewhere, whatever
08:16 AM fragalot: hm. UHPC concrete might be a good epoxy alternative that's a bit easier to work with
08:17 AM fragalot: JT-Shopp: it's more fun if you then get a letter from customs stating you owe them storage money
08:17 AM cradek: ha
08:20 AM fragalot: haha.. looking ofr inspiration, I noticed this thing, which looked huge and a great start.
08:20 AM fragalot: http://gallery.svitterzon.nl/thumb.php?src=cache%2Falbums%2Fvmc%2F2017-09-17+18.01.15.jpg&size=550&ratio=OAR&save=1
08:21 AM fragalot: until I saw it being machined at which point it put things into perspective
08:21 AM fragalot: http://gallery.svitterzon.nl/thumb.php?src=cache%2Falbums%2Fvmc%2FIMG-20170916-WA0014.jpg&size=550&ratio=OAR&save=1
08:22 AM archivist: put that in an FEA package see where it bends and resonates
08:22 AM JT-Shopp: I've went to the usps before and once it lands in another country it's out of their hands
08:23 AM fragalot: I have very poor experiences with USPS shipping things to me, especially if it's "insured" yet arrives damaged
08:25 AM fragalot: I got a free 19" server from someone in the states, which took 8 months to arrive, 7 months of which it spent collecting storage fees @ customs, after which it arrived at my doorstep in pieces.. USPS declined responsibility as it must have happened after they released it to customs, and customs .. well they do what they do.
08:25 AM JT-Shopp: I've had a package take 3 months to travel from one end of Argentina to the other lol
08:25 AM fragalot: I wound up spending €600 to get something that was free, and was now worth less than it's scrap value.
08:26 AM JT-Shopp: fragalot: where are you located at
08:26 AM fragalot: Belgium.
08:26 AM fragalot: the longest I ever had to wait for a package was just under a year
08:26 AM JT-Shopp: some places it's best to pay UPS prices to get it on time
08:26 AM fragalot: for a stack of magnets
08:27 AM fragalot: according to the driver they noticed it when the light bulb in the back was replaced as it was stuck to the roof
08:27 AM fragalot: lol
08:27 AM JT-Shopp: lol
08:29 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: hurrhurr
08:31 AM fragalot: Right. I'm going shopping for servo's, guides, leadscrews & a good breakout board. Any suggestions?
08:34 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: http://www.lachschon.de/item/75820-YourMagnetsarehere/
08:34 AM fragalot: haha
09:20 AM gloops: ballscrews
09:22 AM skunkworks: servo drive
09:23 AM fragalot: currently shopping on damenCNC, went for Nema34 closed-loop steppers for the time being with 25x5 ballscrews and 35mm rails
09:23 AM fragalot: some may think it's overkill for a smaller size machine, but I say there is no such thing.. except if you're the one paying for it >.<
09:24 AM gloops: probably doesnt need big diameter screws for those lengths, but you cant be too strong i suppose - might be an idea to check the space for fitting them, a few mm clearance might be the be all and end all
09:25 AM fragalot: clearance will be determined mostly by the frame, and the frame will be determined by the parts.
09:26 AM gloops: well somehow ive managed to marry over bored pulleys with questionably machined chinese screws, thats saved me about 60-80 quid i reckon
09:27 AM gloops: ahh thought you were fitting to existing mill
09:29 AM fragalot: no
09:29 AM fragalot: decided to go for an ultra-high density concrete build
09:30 AM fragalot: the existing RF45 I have now isn't really rigid enough to be worth using the castings
09:31 AM gloops: excellent
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
09:31 AM gloops: Ichs will know about concrete machines
09:32 AM fragalot: Hi IchGucksLive
09:32 AM IchGucksLive: yes the new stile
09:32 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: hi im in germany
09:33 AM fragalot: belgium here
09:33 AM IchGucksLive: Q why not a full rebuild of a old mashine like Maho600
09:34 AM IchGucksLive: or even BT are below 2k
09:34 AM IchGucksLive: is itr the space
09:34 AM IchGucksLive: servus boddenkreuzer
09:34 AM boddenkreuzer: tach
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: wind da oben schon BF
09:35 AM fragalot: Don't have the space to put "old iron"
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: ok then lets tak a bout Work
09:35 AM fragalot: and I can't get to the location it should go to with a forklift, so i'm going to build in place
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: rmain work is
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: AL or light steel
09:36 AM fragalot: material I wish to be able to cut is steel
09:36 AM boddenkreuzer: @IchGucksLive tomorrow we will get wind, a lot of wind
09:36 AM fragalot: yeah, 120km/h wind predicted for this evening here
09:37 AM boddenkreuzer: its too col
09:37 AM IchGucksLive: boddenkreuzer: we expect lots of fallen trees here as we hit Bf11
09:37 AM boddenkreuzer: have you got trees around you?
09:38 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: size of cut area
09:38 AM IchGucksLive: boddenkreuzer: 20.000 sq KM
09:39 AM IchGucksLive: im in the middle of nowhere
09:39 AM boddenkreuzer: "Angeber"
09:39 AM IchGucksLive: Pfälzerwald
09:39 AM IchGucksLive: gröstes zusammenhängendes waldgebit
09:40 AM boddenkreuzer: ok, thats actually close to the end of nowhere
09:40 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: so i read the logs and you anoiunce a rf45
09:40 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: actual cut area should be _at least_ X300 Y150 Z150 (cutting size, so need clearnace for tool & vise)
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: ypoui are near to paulimot so did you consider to go to there showroom
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: they got the Sieg series
09:41 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: https://imgur.com/a/qPStL this is where it needs to go.
09:42 AM IchGucksLive: its the mashine beond rf
09:42 AM * fragalot looks up paulimot
09:42 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: then concrede is out as it needs mounting space
09:43 AM fragalot: I have a 1x1m area free to the right of the picture if I throw out my bicycles
09:45 AM archivist: fragalot, service the rf45
09:46 AM fragalot: archivist: if I had a surface plate large enough i'd scrape it in
09:46 AM archivist: fragalot, there are some tools you can make so you done need a surface plate
09:46 AM fragalot: i'm listening?
09:47 AM archivist: I need to scan some pages
09:48 AM archivist: or find a copy of machine tool reconditioning
09:49 AM archivist: basically make jigs you can slide and put levels on to measure the V's
09:50 AM fragalot: an alternative could also be to replace the dovetails with linaer slides, which seems to be a very popular mod for this machine
09:50 AM IchGucksLive: Hiwin sets are alredy out
09:51 AM IchGucksLive: also a full hybrid mod
09:51 AM archivist: my home brew mill is a lathe bed set vertical with added slides
09:51 AM fragalot: Right, care to say why?
09:51 AM fragalot: archivist: clever :D
09:51 AM IchGucksLive: im off
09:52 AM fragalot: ok, thank you IchGucksLive you have been very helpful. :)
09:52 AM IchGucksLive: double klick my nick
09:52 AM archivist: the column looks quite solid on the rf45
09:52 AM fragalot: it does LOOK solid, yes
09:53 AM fragalot: but the casting is paper thin and quite off-set
09:53 AM archivist: I was thinking the fault is elsewhere :)
09:54 AM fragalot: like 50% of the column is plaster on mine, lol
09:54 AM fragalot: in a lot of places a layer about 3mm thick is peeling off
09:54 AM archivist: a friend has a mill where it needed a rebuild of the spindle to cure the vibration
09:55 AM fragalot: I'm fairly confident that the spindle in mine doesn't have any balls in the bearings
09:55 AM archivist: and we did it more than once!
09:55 AM archivist: you think it is tapers?
09:57 AM fragalot: the spindle?
09:57 AM archivist: local seller of the sieg recommends customers all rework the spindles :)
09:57 AM fragalot: haha
09:58 AM archivist: having done it I now know why :)
09:58 AM archivist: it did vibrate before, it cuts well after
09:59 AM archivist: check for play with a dti
09:59 AM fragalot: have done - with 2 fingers I can move the spindle about 0.05mm
09:59 AM fragalot: fully retracted
10:00 AM gloops: on a mill?
10:02 AM fragalot: Yarp.
10:02 AM fragalot: it's not that bad though because the column flexed more when I first got it
10:09 AM gloops: well i suppose it depends what youre doing and how it affects cutting, cant be doing with chattering and endlessly messing about tightening stuff up in the middle of a job
10:10 AM gloops: if theres vibration from the cutter it shakes everything loose
10:10 AM fragalot: motors ordered.. I'll get there eventually.
10:12 AM archivist: fragalot, some of the jigs are in Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy by Wayne R Moore - 1970.pdf
10:13 AM archivist: freely available on the internet
10:14 AM fragalot: gloops: i've managed to tighten up the column quite a bit, as well as the spindle.. It's still more of a glorified drill press, but it's usable now
10:14 AM fragalot: Thanks archivist !
10:15 AM archivist: gloops, that alpine mill only ever rates as a drill press :)
10:28 AM fragalot: archivist: any wild suggestions for linear rail dimensions? :P
10:30 AM Jymmm: 1.2 MILES
10:30 AM fragalot: imperial.. That is indeed pretty wild
10:31 AM fragalot: I'm wondering whether to go for 35mm, or if 20mm would already suffice
10:38 AM archivist: your travels are a bit small for 35mm
10:39 AM archivist: also think how many carriages, use more than usual to up the max load
10:41 AM fragalot: I'm wondering if those "sets" you find on ebay are worth anything or if they should be avoided at all costs
10:44 AM archivist: one of my axes has 5 carriages a side, only because there was an ebay set like that with rails
10:45 AM fragalot: lol
10:46 AM archivist: actually came with 6 per rail but the balls fell out of one
10:46 AM fragalot: the one i'm looking at is a 20mm rail set, 2 carriages per rail (I can always order more), including a cheapie ballscrew that i'm not sure if it's worth the risk
10:47 AM fragalot: 400/700/1000mm lengths - which is acceptable for me
10:47 AM Connor: Who is the ebay seller?
10:47 AM Connor: Linermotion2008 (LM2008) is a good seller of rails and screws.
10:47 AM fragalot: "powace08" on ebay.be seems to be a chinese seller with german warehouse, also sells under rottmmotor88
10:48 AM fragalot: or rattmmotor or something like that
10:48 AM Connor: Round rails or THK style?
10:48 AM fragalot: THK
10:50 AM Connor: FYI, I would check these guys and get pricing.. https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/mech/M0100000000/
10:51 AM Loetmichel: re @ home... maaan, that CD that my wife burned for me a few years ago still works... "Autobahn(songs)"... like yello "the race" and so on. nothing under 150bpm... not good if you want to drive with good fuel economy... but fun. but i should check the turbocharger of the diesel. One can hear it over the car stereo volume on "11" :-)
10:51 AM fragalot: yea we use misumi & igus a lot at work.. I should still have a business card of their local rep lying about somewhere
10:52 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: sounds like you need a better stereo :P
10:52 AM Loetmichel: its not bad. cant hear any other sound from outside... just the turbocharger.
10:56 AM fragalot: hilarious sometimes how a single misumi rail can cost more than the full chinese set; yet still be cheaper in the long run.
11:21 AM fragalot: Are there any suggestions for control boards?
11:23 AM Connor: Mesa :)
11:24 AM fragalot: Mesa it is.
11:24 AM fragalot: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=290 that one?
11:28 AM skunkworks: yes.. Mesa
11:29 AM jdh: have you considered Mesa?
11:29 AM JT-Shopp: fragalot: where are you located at?
11:29 AM fragalot: JT-Shopp: Belgium
11:32 AM JT-Shopp: use mesaus.com and you can save money on shipping
11:32 AM JT-Shopp: I'm a Mesa Dealer
11:35 AM fragalot: JT-Shopp: where are you located?
11:36 AM JT-Shopp: Missouri
11:36 AM fragalot: k, just to verify, would you recommend the 7i76E or a different model?
11:40 AM JT-Shopp: 7i76E or 5i25/7i76 PNG kit just what ever works for you
11:42 AM enleth: JT-Shopp: why exactly would shipping to Belgium from Missouri be cheaper than from California?
11:42 AM JT-Shopp: IIRC mesa has a surcharge for international shipments
11:42 AM archivist: which shipper
11:43 AM fragalot: shipping will pale compared to the import duties that await me anyway tbh.
11:43 AM JT-Shopp: and first class rides on the same plane as other shipments :)
11:43 AM fragalot: i can't seem to find the mesa boards in europe anyhow
11:43 AM enleth: JT-Shopp: ah, makes sense. Couldn't have been big though, I don't remember paying it and I'd probably remember if it were unreasonable
11:44 AM JT-Shopp: and you help a starving red neck stay warm when you buy from me :)
11:44 AM gloops: dont forget the chickens
11:45 AM enleth: fragalot: I have a 7i76E running in a lathe, no complaints. Just make sure you have/can add a dedicated network card in the linuxcnc box, and preferably make sure it's an Intel card, not a Realtek
11:45 AM fragalot: enleth: thanks for the tip
11:46 AM JT-Shopp: I thought you had to use the onboard lan port...
11:46 AM enleth: JT-Shopp: why would the physical location of the port make any difference? It's the same PCIe as the slots
11:47 AM JT-Shopp: dunno, just what I've been told
11:47 AM enleth: if anything, you can probably get better results with a decent Intel NIC that has excellent Linux support, than with the Realtek shite that came soldered into the motherboard
11:49 AM fragalot: food now; order later. :P
11:49 AM fragalot: I hope JT-Shopp's shop is more reliable than his internet connection. ;)
11:49 AM enleth: JT-Shopp: the only thing I can think of is that there might be a completely different factor that correlates well with the NIC being built-in or not but is more difficult to explain/check, so whoever said that simplified the problem assuming that in most cases, this information would be useful or at least wouldn't do any damange
11:49 AM enleth: *damage
11:51 AM pcw_home: In general Realtek or intel are fine for Mesa FPGA cards/realtime Avoid Broadcom or Atheros
11:53 AM fragalot: Seems that UPS wants to use air force one to send the mesa board over
11:54 AM JT-Shopp is now known as JT-Shop
11:55 AM fragalot: JT-Shop: order placed. Enjoy staying warm :)
11:55 AM JT-Shop: dang thunderbird was stomping on me in the IRC
11:55 AM JT-Shop: I'll take care of you
11:56 AM pcw_home: Yeah for intl JT will almost always be cheaper
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:06 PM Tom_L: hi
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: archivist
12:33 PM miss0r: enleth: i see you have recieved the package. Have you tested it yet?
12:44 PM enleth: miss0r: not tested yet, but it's there
12:47 PM enleth: miss0r: I think you just made the first ever international donation to the Warsaw Hackerspace
12:48 PM miss0r: Do I get a plaque or something ? :P
12:48 PM Connor: I just found that 2 of my 4" chucks, and a machinist square have developed surface rust in a few places. The room is kept cool in summer and heated in the winter.. That's the only tooling I saw that had any on it..
12:48 PM enleth: I can arrange that
12:48 PM miss0r: lol. Don't need it. I'm just glad I was not forced to throw out good AND pricy equipment
12:49 PM enleth: it will definitely become a mobile VFD box, I just don't know when
12:49 PM miss0r: Well, that is a better destination than where it was going to go if noone wanted it ;)
12:51 PM miss0r: It is light, and it doesn't care about what size motor you attach - so I'll bet its very well suited for the job
12:56 PM gloops: wonder why magnets arent used to secure wood sheets for machining
12:56 PM miss0r: They'd have a hard time with thick materials?
12:57 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: wood isn't very magnetic.
12:57 PM gloops: yeah with thicker stuff, probably need some whopping magnets to stick through half inch ply
12:57 PM gloops: SpeedEvil i mean if you have an iron base, put the wood on it, magnets on top
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: yes, I know. :) Sorry.
12:58 PM gloops: or just weights
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: As a first cut, if the magnet is ~5cm or so wide, it'll have reasonable pull.
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: There are also composite nails that aren't too bad for carbide tooling
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: designed for this
12:59 PM gloops: how does that work?
12:59 PM gloops: cut through the nails?
12:59 PM SpeedEvil: yes
12:59 PM gloops: hmm not seen that
12:59 PM SpeedEvil: https://raptornails.com/
01:00 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raptor-S-05-37-Composite-Plastic-Staples-NIB-10-boxes-half-a-case-1-2-C-3-8-L/253149725314
01:00 PM SpeedEvil: The nails/staples aren't _too_ expensive - the guns are very expensive.
01:01 PM Jymmm: PLASTIC steples?! Interesting
01:01 PM gloops: ill have a look for those here, they look like standard staple sizes
01:01 PM Jymmm: gloops: There is also vacuum clamping too
01:01 PM gloops: Jymm you gotta buy the plastic hammer as well though
01:02 PM Jymmm: gloops: toys r us has crap loads of em
01:02 PM gloops: a vacuum bed is probably some way off for me, you can make the table from mdf though i think?
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: you can make a mdf or ply vacuum bed
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: closing off the unused holes is fun
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: the easy approach is just to use a big enough pump and high resistance holes.
01:04 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: Or just cover with plastic/rubber sheet
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: adds an annoying step.
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: Though not really an issue
01:04 PM Jymmm: or could chamber and have valves to section it out
01:05 PM SpeedEvil: A valve per hole would be awesome but probably impractical
01:05 PM Jymmm: haha
01:05 PM gloops: what about the dust?
01:06 PM Jymmm: I think strips of rubber sheet just placed over the unused holes woule be fine
01:06 PM Connor: They have commercially available ones with ball valves in each hole.. When you put your material on top.. it depresses the valve..
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: Connor: hmm - that's simple I guess
01:06 PM Jymmm: Connor: nice
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: not too hard to DIY either
01:06 PM Jymmm: Cost per plunge valve... $42 trillion
01:06 PM gloops: or a bag of marbles - just roll them round the unused bed
01:08 PM Connor: http://www.m-powertools.com/products/vacuum/ball-valves-02.html
01:08 PM gloops: Each piece is individually hand carved by some of the world's most respected craftsmen. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hand-Carved-Solid-Oak-Wooden-Acanthus-Leaf-Corbel-Bracket-Support-12-High-x-5/262396507541?
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: solid oak is my faforite
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: tourdorial milling ;-)
01:09 PM gloops: £50 each, hes sold 50
01:09 PM Connor: http://www.bigtoolstore.com/0-52259/Accessories,-wood/BIG-MACH-VACUUM-TABLE-KIT.aspx
01:09 PM gloops: im looking at some way of jigging for 3 sides
01:10 PM gloops: thats surprisingly cheap Connor
01:10 PM enleth: miss0r: it *can* be programmed, though, and there's quite a lot of parameters
01:10 PM Connor: Yup. get yourself a kit.. and make your own. :)
01:10 PM enleth: miss0r: it just doesn't program through the panel
01:10 PM Connor: https://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Mach-Ball-Valve-For-Vacuum-Clamping.html or $2.88 per valve.
01:11 PM gloops: i probably will soon enough, but got enough to do atm
01:11 PM Jymmm: Ok, $2/ea http://www.m-powertools.com/products/vacuum/ball-valves.htm
01:11 PM gloops: could have a valve for every square foot or something
01:12 PM Connor: Sorry. Missed that page. :)
01:12 PM Jymmm: Connor: No, their website sucked. I fund that by google images search
01:12 PM Jymmm: found*
01:12 PM gloops: oh thats a valve for every hole, how many holes per sq ft?
01:12 PM Jymmm: Connor: Not on you at all =)
01:13 PM Connor: :)
01:13 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: yeah - or three sheets of ply on the CNC, cut into appropriate shapes, and a bag of marbles.
01:13 PM SpeedEvil: and some glue
01:14 PM gloops: taps on every pipe
01:14 PM gloops: all in a line, one sweep of the hand you can turn half the table off
01:14 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: delrin or HDPE sheet, ball bearing and a spring?
01:15 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: something like that, though I'd use ply for most of it as there is no reason for hdpe
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:15 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: At $2/ea I'd just buy those ball vlaves and use a sacraficial sheets of anything as needed
01:16 PM SpeedEvil: $2 adds up, as you're gonna want lots a square foot
01:16 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: HDPE to have a better sealing properties is all
01:16 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: OH, kids rubber balls like out of those gumball machines
01:16 PM SpeedEvil: ping pong balls may also work
01:17 PM SpeedEvil: Or similar
01:17 PM fragalot: seems I got disconnected without being notified. annoying
01:18 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: 20K for $8 ??? https://www.amazon.com/Ounces-Marble-JellyBeadZ-Stress-Rainbow/dp/B00A811T74/
01:18 PM Deejay: 1 hour 18 minutes ago, fragalot
01:19 PM fragalot: did I miss anything important? :P
01:19 PM Deejay: dont know, didnt follow ;)
01:19 PM fragalot: me neither
01:19 PM Jymmm: fragalot: Free CNC Center for filling out a 10 question survey
01:20 PM fragalot: urgh. I hate surveys
01:20 PM Jymmm: lmao
01:20 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: golf tees?
01:23 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-MOTORCYCLE-Scooter-ATV-IN-LINE-6MM-ON-OFF-PETROL-FUEL-TAP-Shut-Off/162031785008?
01:23 PM SpeedEvil: I've had similar thoughts about controllable pnuematic beds.
01:23 PM SpeedEvil: (for sleeping on)
01:23 PM SpeedEvil: It's a fun problem.
01:24 PM gloops: just need 40 scrap mopeds
01:27 PM * SpeedEvil looks at his pile of 12 hoverboards.
01:27 PM fragalot: what are you trying to do?
01:28 PM SpeedEvil: The hoverboards are for a RC lawnmower project, amongst other things
01:28 PM SpeedEvil: Cosmetically broken ones - mostly plastics
01:29 PM SpeedEvil: lawnmower/garden-bot. geared down 5:1, they have a _lot_ of torque
01:29 PM SpeedEvil: and not geared down, they're usable on flattish terrain
01:33 PM fragalot: there are too many neighbourhood cats leaving presents here to use a robotic lawnmower
01:33 PM fragalot: unless if you could equip them with a little scoop
01:33 PM fragalot: and a miniature motion activated catapult
01:34 PM Wolf__: hover board? rc mower? weak
01:35 PM methods_: nuclear powered hoverboard rc mower
01:35 PM Wolf__: 13hp hydraulic https://i.imgur.com/zMysgUb.jpg
01:35 PM methods_: that'll do
01:36 PM SpeedEvil: My proper hoverboard design is a barely luggable platform that can do free flight for ~5 minutes on a ~1m*0.5m*0.3m or so platform.
01:36 PM SpeedEvil: (1m*1m*15cm unfolded)
01:37 PM SpeedEvil: But, ~250kW of fans may make it somewhat loud.
01:37 PM Wolf__: I have a 2nd mower waiting to be build, 18hp hydro wheel motor drive
01:38 PM Wolf__: 52” cut
01:38 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: if you need 250kW to lift something that size, YDIW.
01:38 PM fragalot: you'd need about 249, TOPS.
01:39 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: It's a 1m^2 platform that has to hover on reaction and lift 150kg, there really isn't much getting away from insane power use.
01:39 PM JT-Shop: I make a panel for a company for a specific job and they use it on a different one so the input logic is backwards... I give them a relay and tell them how to connect it up and they are lost
01:39 PM fragalot: insane, sure. but not a quarter of a megawatt.. there are hovercraft that run on 10x less
01:39 PM JT-Shop: guy calls me and says he don't know how to hook up a relay...
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: yes - free flight.
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: as in out of ground effect
01:40 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: I've talked to many "electricians" in industry wiring our machinery, and yes, these people exist.
01:40 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: have you seen colin furze's take on this?
01:40 PM Wolf__: lol sounds like we went from talking ground “hover boards” to manned multi rotors
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: sounds like they are good at sucking you into their madness
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: yes, it was in ground effect.
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: IIRC
01:40 PM fragalot: it was
01:41 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: with a considerably larger area, which makes it easier. I was wondering what a practical hoverboard as in the movie might be
01:41 PM SpeedEvil: and it's sort of doable, just much, much louder, somewhat larger folded, and much, much heavier
01:41 PM SpeedEvil: And only works for 4 min
01:41 PM JT-Shop: I make them wait a few days lol or I go out and charge by the hour... I did sell them an expensive machine I'm making
01:42 PM fragalot: :P
01:42 PM SpeedEvil: The movie had it well out of ground effect.
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: yeah you have to do that way or they just keep doing things upsdie down and expect you to fix it for free
01:43 PM fragalot: or you get a bad reputation because your equiptment sucks
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: why you have to be clear with them and remind them that they made a problem
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: or yes they will assume that you did it
01:43 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: that only works if they tell you.
01:43 PM TechWombat: Hi everyone I am looking for some advice
01:43 PM TechWombat:
01:43 PM TechWombat: Hi, I am looking for some advice on what hardware would be best to complete a project, I am
01:43 PM TechWombat: looking for 2 axies system and one monitor needs to be a endless stepper
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: wow how much whitepace can you have in a single comment?
01:44 PM Wolf__: ^ that much
01:44 PM TechWombat: I know I didn't see I started typing first
01:44 PM fragalot: what I have had happen a few times is talking to a maintenance tech at a different customer, stating our equiptment is bad because it never worked in a different plant that never even contacted us as they purchased it 2nd hand.
01:44 PM TechWombat: Its kind of a crazy day
01:44 PM fragalot: TechWombat: endless stepper?
01:45 PM TechWombat: A motor that is free spinning
01:45 PM TechWombat: But can still be sent G-Code
01:45 PM fragalot: all steppers can spin continuously
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: free spinning as compared to a stationary non-rotating motor shaft?
01:46 PM Daywalker198454: Happy new year!
01:46 PM Wolf__: sounds more like you just need something to make a step/dir signal
01:46 PM TechWombat: I am looking for something that can just endless spin but, still be told you need to spin 100 times before telling the other motor to move forward
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: you want the motor to rotate when not under power?
01:47 PM fragalot: I'm not sure if there is a Gcode command to "keep going X- forever"
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: rotate using an external force?
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: like a spindle?
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: a spindle with position feedback as well as just rotate forever
01:48 PM TechWombat: Ok, give you a background the place I work at is making a drill cutter a device that cuts drill bits, and they want a motor to spin the drill bit 100 times then another motor to move the drill bit closer to the cutting tool so they can get the thickness they want
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: trying to use your definitions
01:49 PM cradek: are you sure you don't want coordinated motion that turns the drill 100 times while moving it slowly toward the grinder?
01:49 PM Wolf__: TechWombat: really you could probably do that with a arduino a button and standard stepper driver
01:49 PM fragalot: TechWombat: so a grinding lathe with C-axis?
01:50 PM TechWombat: yes that is it cradek
01:50 PM cradek: well it's not what you said at all
01:50 PM TechWombat: Yeah this isn't my field
01:50 PM fragalot: lol
01:50 PM TechWombat: I am a Linux sys admin that got tasked with this
01:50 PM Wolf__: lol
01:50 PM TechWombat: It was like give the egg head a project
01:50 PM TechWombat: He is smart with computers
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: how fast does the bit need to spin?
01:51 PM TechWombat: 3200 RPM
01:51 PM TechWombat: So really fast
01:52 PM cradek: ok that sounds like a spindle
01:52 PM Daywalker198454: Can somebody help with the pinout of a 5i20 mesa card?
01:52 PM * fragalot is more wondering which drill bit he owns has 100 full rotations on the flutes
01:52 PM Wolf__: guess you could go overkill and use linux cnc set up as a lathe control
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: and now for the other 100+ questions, drill but size range, what chuck are you going to use, etc etc
01:52 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: their manuals are all online in pdf
01:52 PM TechWombat: They are not that big less than 1 inch
01:53 PM TechWombat: They just tasked me with finding the hardware
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: are you starting from scratch or is this some machine you are retrofitting or do you already have some components?
01:53 PM cradek: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/5i20man.pdf
01:53 PM TechWombat: We have a the equitment but its all hand based
01:53 PM Daywalker198454: thx for that information... but why is the encoder input a output in hal and always 5V high?
01:53 PM fragalot: TechWombat: so "all you need to do" is replace the hand wheels with motors?
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: Wolf__: sshhhh, I have some extra heidenhain controllers I need to sell :)
01:54 PM TechWombat: Yeah but they want a system that the can network a computer to so they can remote watch it
01:54 PM Wolf__: haha
01:54 PM methods_: http://pythonsweetness.tumblr.com/post/169166980422/the-mysterious-case-of-the-linux-page-table
01:55 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: I don't understand your question
01:55 PM fragalot: TechWombat: so a 7i76e Mesa step/dir card, plus the proper size servo or closed-loop stepper motors with drivers, and power supply etc
01:57 PM Daywalker198454: i want to connect a 5V TTL glass scale to the encoder input of the 5i20.
01:57 PM fragalot: which motors you need depend on how fast the handwheels need to move, how accurately they need to be positioned, and how hard they are to turn
01:57 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: ok cool
01:57 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: do you have a 7i33 or other similar daughter card with encoder inputs?
01:58 PM * Wolf__ thinks we need to see a picture of this machine TechWombat is working on
01:58 PM TechWombat: Thanks guys, I will hang around because in the next few weeks and I am sure to bother you all with my endless questions, and I am going to make sure my employer send a donation to the Linux CNC project
01:58 PM cradek: send us a good developer
01:58 PM fragalot: xD
01:58 PM Daywalker198454: no, dont have one
01:59 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: I'm not sure how you do it without one of those cards meant for encoders etc
01:59 PM Daywalker198454: on parallel it works fine.
01:59 PM Daywalker198454: parport sorry
01:59 PM cradek: with (for example) 7i33 you'd jumper it for ttl encoder input levels, and just wire it up to the screw terminals
02:01 PM Daywalker198454: when i wire the a phase to a normal input pin, the signal works fine.
02:02 PM Daywalker198454: dont know how to tell what i mean my english is not the best at all :-P
02:04 PM Daywalker198454: when i look in the hal the encoder phase a ist configured at output but shouldnt it be an input
02:04 PM Daywalker198454: ???
02:05 PM cradek: encoder position in hal is an output [from the mesa hardware/driver] that you can hook to an input [linuxcnc's position inputs]
02:08 PM Daywalker198454: ok... i think the problem is, that the i/o pin an the 5i20 is always high, an the glass scale in 0V or 5V i think linuxcnc can not count, because the signal is alwasy on.
02:08 PM cradek: then you are using the wrong pins, or you have the pins configured incorrectly
02:09 PM Daywalker198454: looked at the hm2 pinout in the terminal
02:09 PM cradek: what is your loadrt hm2_pci command line?
02:09 PM Daywalker198454: one moment
02:09 PM TechWombat: Do you get a good deal buying parts from eBay?
02:09 PM cradek: TechWombat: how long is a stick?
02:10 PM fragalot: TechWombat: depends entirely on the parts & vendor.
02:10 PM Daywalker198454: loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/5i20/SVST2_4_7I47.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=2 num_stepgens=4"
02:10 PM TechWombat: Yeah I guess that is true cradek
02:10 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: do you have a 7i47?
02:10 PM Daywalker198454: no i dont have... :-(
02:11 PM cradek: that's a serial device so I bet that is the wrong firmware
02:12 PM Daywalker198454: what FW to use then...
02:12 PM cradek: maybe a 7i33 firmware
02:13 PM Daywalker198454: the 7i33 is a normal optocard right?
02:13 PM cradek: then look at the 7i33->5i20 pinout in the 7i33 manual and match that
02:13 PM cradek: it has basic dac output and encoder input
02:14 PM Daywalker198454: hmm could work.. maybe the 7i47 is a sinking input device ?
02:14 PM cradek: in ttl mode the encoder input circuit is RC filter then schmitt trigger
02:14 PM cradek: 7i47 manual says the 7i47 talks rs422 to the 5i20
02:15 PM Daywalker198454: ah ok... i will make a config and try....
02:19 PM fragalot: That was quick, JT-Shop :)
02:20 PM JT-Shop: you got it already?
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: good scotch, C developer, comedy writer as other options :)
02:21 PM fragalot: well, I got a tracking number.. Which is typically a good sign.
02:21 PM TechWombat: Do you know if CNC will be dropping 32 bit support?
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: sends up pics and/or part numbers of the machine you have
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: it will not be
02:22 PM fragalot: TechWombat: there aren't many reasons for CNC to need more than 32bit
02:22 PM fragalot: the main reason a lot of embedded industrial controls are moving from 8 or 16bit to 32bit is that the ARM chips are cheaper than their 8bit counterparts
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: show us what you are starting with
02:22 PM TechWombat: Yeah its just I am here in Mexico and we can only get old hardware for computer unless we want to give over a arm and a leg
02:23 PM TechWombat: Like last time I looked a second gen i5 still selling for $400 USD in some places
02:23 PM fragalot: latency is more important than clock speed for CNC, TechWombat
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: the PC will be the easy part
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: send pics
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: we have 10+ year old PC's running LCNC
02:25 PM fragalot: my previous one is coming up to 15 years old
02:25 PM fragalot: still works fine
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: some new PC's are more work to get running properly
02:25 PM TechWombat: Oh ok, I will try and get pic at some point but
02:25 PM fragalot: the new build will use a 12yr old one
02:26 PM TechWombat: I don't know why computer hardware is so pricey here
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: drivers vs kernel versions with real time
02:26 PM TechWombat: I am from Australia but been living in Mexico and in Australia we pay a lot but here is crazy
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: old motherboard, cpu and ram is fine, usually it just gets a new power supply and all new fans
02:27 PM fragalot: and maybe a new harddisk
02:27 PM fragalot: nobody likes clickers
02:28 PM TechWombat: Yeah I want to move to SSD myself but they are super rare and when you find them you pay so much more it is cheaper to import but if you are doing for a enterprise you can't
02:28 PM fragalot: SSD is not required for this
02:28 PM TechWombat: I like SSD rather than a spinning disk, they make my life easier
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: not really an issue either way
02:29 PM Daywalker198454: tryed, but it is the same...
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: do you have a machine shop to modify or fabricate parts?
02:30 PM TechWombat: They are here because we get so many dead spinning disk here, the SSD we installed are running better
02:30 PM Daywalker198454: the a-phase input is still 5V
02:30 PM TechWombat: I would call it a fitter and turner, that is what we would call them in Australia
02:31 PM TechWombat: Gears, custom bolts anything metal we can do it
02:31 PM fragalot: Daywalker198454: is the output of the encoder maybe PNP, and the input of the card needs an NPN signal?
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: TechWombat: was concerned this is how the shop looks http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BHFBFG/a-donkey-moving-the-water-wheel-of-a-historical-well-pajara-fuerteventura-BHFBFG.jpg
02:31 PM pcw_mesa: Daywalker198454: what daughterboards do you have and what 5I20 connectors are the attached to?
02:31 PM cradek: Daywalker198454: tell us what you tried exactly
02:32 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: is the donkey moving the water wheel, or is the water wheel moving the donkey?
02:32 PM Daywalker198454: i have no daughterboard connected.
02:32 PM fragalot: I know what the picture title says, but you can't trust everything you read on the internet...
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: I think it's for failover
02:32 PM fragalot: ah right
02:32 PM Daywalker198454: ok. again.
02:33 PM Daywalker198454: i have a 5i20 and a glass scale with 5V TTL signals.
02:34 PM Daywalker198454: i connected a 50 pin ribbon cable to the mesa and at the other end a WEIDMÜLLER 50 pin screw terminal
02:35 PM Daywalker198454: i get 5V and 0V from pin 49 and 50
02:35 PM Daywalker198454: connected the power of the glass scale to them
02:35 PM pcw_mesa: which 5I20 connector?
02:35 PM Daywalker198454: p2
02:36 PM Daywalker198454: so the scale is powered
02:36 PM Daywalker198454: and works
02:37 PM Daywalker198454: a and b changes from 5 to 0 V like it should
02:37 PM fragalot: can anyone recommend a good pulse wheel thingymajigger?
02:39 PM fragalot: control pendant, or whatever they're called
02:39 PM Daywalker198454: but the pin on the mesa is already 5V and will stay at high. so i cannot connect the signal from the glassscale to the mesa pin.
02:39 PM Daywalker198454: i think it will not count
02:40 PM cradek: which 5i20 pins did you connect A,B to?
02:41 PM Daywalker198454: hm2/hm2_5i20.0: IO Pin 000 (P2-01): Encoder #1, pin B (Input)
02:41 PM pcw_mesa: all 5I20 inputs have a pullup resistor (to 5V in the default setup) so will all measure 5V if set as inputs
02:41 PM ehrmantraut: Hi folks
02:42 PM miss0r: archivist you around?
02:42 PM Daywalker198454: hmm is there a way to set the to 0V
02:42 PM Daywalker198454: ??
02:42 PM miss0r: archivist: I added the copper surface for the carbon brushes: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20180102_214032-UBD1aFh6.jpg The spindle is realy taking shape :]
02:43 PM pcw_mesa: no
02:44 PM Daywalker198454: then it cant work, right?
02:45 PM Daywalker198454: but how does the card handle normal inputs like buttons
02:45 PM fragalot: the buttons pull to ground, eg. NPN
02:47 PM Daywalker198454: so everything is inverted... then a pwm output ist normal 0V?
02:50 PM pcw_mesa: if you are driving the input with a low impedance source (like a TTL encoder) there is no problem
02:51 PM pcw_mesa: The encoder simply overdrives the pullup resistor
02:51 PM pcw_mesa: if you are using a switch you connect the switch common to ground
02:52 PM cradek: which 5i20 pins did you connect A,B to?
02:52 PM Daywalker198454: hm2/hm2_5i20.0: IO Pin 000 (P2-01): Encoder #1, pin B (Input)
02:53 PM Daywalker198454: hm2/hm2_5i20.0: IO Pin 001 (P2-03): Encoder #1, pin A (Input)
02:54 PM cradek: ... ok now I'd like to know if you're interpreting that correctly
02:54 PM Daywalker198454: p2 is the first connector on the mesa
02:55 PM cradek: ok right
02:55 PM cradek: which pins on p2?
02:55 PM Daywalker198454: and 1 is the first pin of the 50 pins an 2 is the grd to pin 1
02:56 PM pcw_mesa: so if you ground pin 1 can you read it change with halmeter?
02:56 PM Daywalker198454: yes
02:57 PM pcw_mesa: but if you connect your encoder it never changes?
02:57 PM Daywalker198454: right
02:58 PM cradek: then the encoder is sure not ttl
02:58 PM Daywalker198454: tryed it with a mpg and with the glass scale
02:58 PM Daywalker198454: on the parport it counts fine...
02:58 PM pcw_mesa: so fragalot may be right (PNP outputs not TTL)
02:59 PM pcw_mesa: which is a bit odd but possible I guess
02:59 PM Daywalker198454: it is a sino scale
03:00 PM Daywalker198454: ka500
03:01 PM fragalot: inductive or hall effect homing & limit sensors?
03:03 PM Daywalker198454: no sensors at this moment just trying everthing on my workbench to understand how linux and hall works
03:03 PM fragalot: no I meant for me :D
03:04 PM Daywalker198454: :-P
03:27 PM Daywalker198454: ok.. got it to work...
03:28 PM Daywalker198454: there is a jumper on the 5i20 to deaktivate the pullups!
03:28 PM fragalot: Hooray! :-)
03:29 PM Daywalker198454: now it works fine... the jumper of the devil was the problem :-P
03:30 PM pcw_mesa: If your encoder cannot overdrive a 3.3K pullup its not TTL (or theres a missing ground somewhere)
03:33 PM pcw_mesa: If it cannot overdrive thepullups I would not trust it to count properly (if its PNP it will need stiff pulldowns)
03:40 PM Daywalker198454: i think i will buy the right daughtercards for the 5i20. but now i can test a little and i hope to learn how hal works.
03:41 PM Daywalker198454: but today i learned that on irc erverybody wants to help. thank you for the great support !
03:41 PM fragalot: :-)
03:42 PM fragalot: That's what communities are about, really
03:42 PM Daywalker198454: just perfect! thx a lot
03:43 PM Daywalker198454: GN8 folks and thx u for your support! till the next time
03:44 PM fragalot: does anyone have any good spindle recommendations? (target material = steel, so unless I go for HSM style milling only, I don't think that's a good option :P)
04:05 PM Deejay: gn8
05:25 PM gloops: fragalot one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlNDQ2PVPpI
06:08 PM skullworks: trying to decide which is more dead - this list or the support form I'm supposed to be working.
06:09 PM MarcelineVQ: which list is that?
06:15 PM skullworks: I'm doing a support gig for training classes. The Warez is installed by booting to a USB3 thumb drive and letting the warez digitally sign the users system. Then they can connect via VPN and get the full install.
06:16 PM skullworks: have not had a new request for assistance since noon.
06:18 PM skullworks: Good thing I'm being paid by the clock and not per incident.
06:24 PM Shania: hallo
06:25 PM skullworks: that was short...
07:17 PM Contract_Pilot: so far windows 10 has been rather painless just time consuming need to make this duel boot and play with linux on this puter
07:18 PM Contract_Pilot: 6.250TB HDD Space 250 is SSD
07:20 PM Contract_Pilot: but should be back on...
07:21 PM Contract_Pilot: that logitech 24.00 track ball sucks
07:22 PM Contract_Pilot: Can almost do better with my mouse anyone have a recomendation on a good trackball
07:50 PM roycroft: wtf!
07:50 PM roycroft: do any of you folks use aliexpress/alibaba to order stuff?
07:50 PM roycroft: i have a shipment that is overdue
07:50 PM roycroft: i initiated a dispute because the seller would not respond to me
07:51 PM roycroft: the seller responded to the dispute by extending the due date by 20 days
07:51 PM roycroft: so i have to wait another 20 days in order to get any action on the dispute
07:51 PM roycroft: that does not sound right
07:51 PM methods_: yeah
07:51 PM methods_: that's how it works
07:51 PM roycroft: so what happens in 20 days if it doesn't show up?
07:51 PM methods_: you money is in escrow though so you can get your money back
07:51 PM roycroft: does the seller get to extend the deadline again?
07:52 PM roycroft: it's not much money
07:52 PM methods_: i think you can actually just cancel at this point though
07:52 PM roycroft: only about $20
07:52 PM roycroft: i just want the product
07:52 PM methods_: you don't have to accept their extension
07:52 PM roycroft: and i don't want to have to wait until next summer to reorder it
07:52 PM methods_: i think you can dispute it
07:52 PM methods_: but not sure
07:52 PM roycroft: i've been looking for a way to refuse the extension but i can't find one
07:52 PM roycroft: this whole business is screwey
07:52 PM roycroft: it makes no sense to me
07:52 PM roycroft: probably because of cultural differences
07:53 PM roycroft: i can't understand how they structured things, and how i am supposed to react to them
07:53 PM methods_: well in my experience they have been very responsive to emails
07:53 PM methods_: with a time zone delay obviously
07:53 PM roycroft: the seller seems more concerned that if i dispute this shipment it will harm the reputation of the shipper than that i haven't received a product by the guaranteed delivery date
07:54 PM roycroft: and the seller is blaming it all on the fires in california
07:54 PM roycroft: which is interesting, because the shipping status shows it still in china waiting to disptach
07:54 PM roycroft: i ordered this in mid november
07:55 PM roycroft: so it's not like i'm being impatient
07:55 PM roycroft: i might just order from another vendor
07:55 PM methods_: yeah i don't know what to tell you on that one
07:55 PM roycroft: and if this finally shows up, i have a spare
07:55 PM methods_: i never order anything from china that i "need"
07:56 PM roycroft: i could be ok with it taking a while longer
07:56 PM roycroft: but if it hasn't left china
07:56 PM roycroft: and isn't going to leave china
07:56 PM roycroft: and the seller keeps getting to push out the deadline
07:56 PM roycroft: then i'll never get it
07:56 PM roycroft: late can be acceptable; never is unacceptable
07:57 PM roycroft: this is my first experience with aliexpress
07:57 PM roycroft: so far it's gone less than swimmingly
08:02 PM methods_: i call it chinese christmas
08:02 PM methods_: i get stuff i ordered from aliexpress that i forgot i even ordered
08:03 PM methods_: so it's like a christmas present from myself
08:03 PM methods_: really sux when it's some pcb with no paperwork and i have to try and figure out what the hell it even is
08:04 PM roycroft: yeah, i bet
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: Chinese way is more, fool me once I deserve it, fool me twice I deserve it, etc etc
08:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/X_Motormount1.jpg
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: solid coupling?
08:15 PM Tom_L: for alignment :)
08:15 PM Tom_L: i've got the regular split coupler
08:15 PM dioz: any of you boys ever take lunch to work?
08:15 PM dioz: what do you take your lunch to work in?
08:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Couplers.jpg
08:16 PM dioz: nice couplers
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: the ones on the right break pretty easily
08:16 PM Tom_L: i'm using the one on the left
08:16 PM Cromaglious_: wheee, just got my 16x9 aspect 21" asus touch screen. Just loaded Matchbox onscreen keyboard
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: ding ding ding
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: you win!
08:19 PM Cromaglious_: Ordered Mesa 7i??M ethernet dual LPT port adapter boards, I have 3 more BOB's on the way, already have one BOB.
08:20 PM Cromaglious_: CNCfusion cnc kit on the way, iHSS60-36-30 (NEMA 24 36v 3Nm 485ozin) integrated steepers on thier way, 2 36v PS's on thier way.
08:20 PM dioz: steeepers
08:21 PM Cromaglious_: steeeeeeeeeppers
08:21 PM Cromaglious_: forgot the 3rd thru 9th e and 2nd p
08:32 PM Cromaglious_: going to be able to have alm estop off motors, relay powering 36v PS
08:32 PM Cromaglious_: so I can power cycle steppers from linuxcnc
08:33 PM Cromaglious_: so home cycle will be power cycle steppers, then home
09:09 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Digital_Readout_Scale.htm
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: anbody every try these ^^^ looks like direct from China via Vacaville, CA
09:24 PM roycroft: i haven't used their stuff, but dropros are pretty well knwn, and folks don't seem to complain about them too much
10:01 PM Cromaglious_ is now known as robi
11:16 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
11:24 PM L29Ah_: can linuxcnc by any chance use a pin to switch the microstepping multiplier to utilize the limited stepgen frequency more efficiently?
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: in the step gen? or at the drive?
11:25 PM L29Ah_: as stepper resonance is more of an issue at lower speeds when we can actually afford to reliably produce the step singal
11:26 PM L29Ah_: w/ microstepping
11:27 PM L29Ah_: CaptHindsight: i guess this would be an option for the step gen to utilize some additional output pin(s) for microstepping control
11:28 PM L29Ah_: i don't really know what part of linuxcnc is suited for such a decision
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: the step gen makes the steps that get sent out to hardware pins on the LPT port or fpga card
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: stepper drives also have microstepping settings
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: do you want LCNC to make more steps or LCNC to control the stepper drives dip switches that control microstepping?
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: have to run
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: post the info for someone to reply
11:31 PM L29Ah_: i want lcnc to disable microstepping to be able to generate less step pulses at higher motor speeds
11:31 PM L29Ah_: the "dip switches" can be wired to lpt/fpga/any other hal component for this
11:33 PM L29Ah_: as now i can either be bound to low speeds w/ enabled microstepping or be able to utilize higher speeds and enjoy horrible noise and vibrations at low speeds w/o microstepping, while theoretically software is perfectly capable to switch the microstepping mode on the fly
11:36 PM * L29Ah_ have succeeded to reach only 25KHz on Allwinner A20 reliably w/o overclocking
11:37 PM L29Ah_: the rt thread period of 40µs, that is