#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 01 2018

01:28 AM Crom: happy almost a new year
01:44 AM gloops: still in 2017 Crom?
01:45 AM Tom_L: let it go
01:45 AM Tom_L: it's over
01:48 AM gloops: misplaced a couple of ballscrew bearing blocks - the chinese supplier actually threw in 4 sets free, thats nice of them i thought - now realising 1 set is £25 to replace..so will be having a good look later
01:51 AM gloops: i thought they were like £5 a set things
01:53 AM jesseg: gloops, I have 7 more minutes here then the year is gone
01:55 AM gloops: wow i thought it would be global by now
01:55 AM gloops: where are you jesseg?
01:56 AM jesseg: gloops, Washington, USA
01:57 AM gloops: almost 8 am here in the UK
02:13 AM Deejay: moin
02:13 AM Deejay: happy new year
02:14 AM jesseg: Good morning and happy new year, Deejay !
02:14 AM XXCoder: happy new year all
02:41 AM IchGucksLive: Happy New Year to all of you
02:42 AM XXCoder: happy new year
02:43 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: did yoiu make it or 15min to go
02:43 AM XXCoder: it was 43 min ago
02:43 AM IchGucksLive: i di see lasvegas firer work
02:43 AM XXCoder: only 2 states left to go, that iceball state then hot state island
02:47 AM IchGucksLive: best firershow has been HK this year
02:47 AM XXCoder: seattle space needle show was nice
02:48 AM IchGucksLive: did not see that they showed lasvegas on tV
02:48 AM XXCoder: nah
02:49 AM XXCoder: seattle is in my state :)
02:50 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhBnBLvhsk
02:51 AM XXCoder: yep.
02:51 AM XXCoder: needle is being worked on thats why you see construction coverings on it
02:51 AM IchGucksLive: what emp do you got
02:51 AM IchGucksLive: temp
02:52 AM XXCoder: 33f
02:52 AM IchGucksLive: not bad we got 10C
02:53 AM IchGucksLive: im off
02:59 AM gloops: well, a bit of ally to melt and some reducer bushes to make
03:05 AM gloops: funny i had this feeling with the last machine, there seems like a million things to do, hundreds of holes to drill and tap, loads of cutting, endless assembling dismantling, frustration, and then suddenly you look round and theres hardly anything left to do on it
03:06 AM XXCoder: dang
03:07 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/6c0wTtq4xDM dang
03:07 AM XXCoder: while I have seen such pattern, never saw it that strong
03:07 AM XXCoder: sundogs
03:07 AM archivist: gloops, just getting to the stage of finding a crucial cock up :)
03:08 AM gloops: XXCoder that is lens flare though? not in the sky
03:08 AM XXCoder: it is in sky
03:08 AM XXCoder: notice it dont follow lens movement
03:08 AM XXCoder: because its in sky not by lens
03:08 AM gloops: archivist no...i set out with 2 simple premises, a) i can make absolutely anything b) absolutely nothing can go wrong
03:09 AM XXCoder: sundogs is somewhat rare in most areas in world. that area however have tons of ice crystals in air
03:09 AM XXCoder: so sundogs and ring is really strong
03:11 AM XXCoder: this is closer to what I saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHXz7annOKM
03:12 AM gloops: some relation used to go climbing a lot, she told me about this strang halo effect they saw a couple of times on the hills when it was misty with the sun behind, cant remember the name of it
03:12 AM gloops: must be quite rare? in non arctic regions anyway
03:12 AM XXCoder: there is severial effects caused by same thing, refraction on stuff in sky
03:13 AM XXCoder: water mist is rainbows
03:13 AM XXCoder: the halo thingyou menioned is similiar
03:13 AM XXCoder: sundogs and halo needs quite a lot stronger reflection, so it needs ice clouds or fog
03:14 AM gloops: see quit a few single horn type things, once you start taking notice theyre pretty common
03:14 AM gloops: quite
03:15 AM gloops: like a small shard of rainbow
03:16 AM XXCoder: did you know ww1 pilots used to take advange of sundogs to fly to enemy planes unnoticed?
03:17 AM gloops: i didnt know that no, it was pretty standard training to come out of the sun for fighter pilots, i suppose anything that gave some obscurity was used
03:18 AM XXCoder: I do wonder one thing though
03:18 AM XXCoder: how the hell do they know if lined up in sundog to enemy plane? or sun itself for that matter
03:18 AM gloops: a lot of the planes were painted white, some of the german planes had cloudy white grey working up from the undercarriage - cloud camo
03:19 AM gloops: rear view mirror?
03:19 AM XXCoder: yeah but then how know id aligned
03:19 AM gloops: if the target is ahead and the sun is behind, youre not far out
03:21 AM gloops: must have been good to watch the fighters as they did from the south of england, imagine going outside and an air battle is taking place overhead
03:24 AM gloops: i worked at an old fighter pilots place for a few days when i was younger, had VC in a glass case in the hall, by his account the pilots didnt know their position half the time
03:30 AM gloops: when you watch the films and a ww2 fighter is flying round endlessly machining gunning, having about 10 lengthy shots at targets - that is bull, they had a few very short bursts before the magazines were empty, and when the gun was firing it stalled the plane - instant drop
03:31 AM XXCoder: not surpised. you see it in movies all time, someone using say auto gun for whole minutes
03:31 AM XXCoder: when really all bullet brust would last say 15 seconds
03:33 AM gloops: yeah thats what the old bloke told me anyway, not even 15 seconds a few seconds, they went up all orderly and when it kicked off it was just a few minutes of rollercoaster and then it was all over
03:35 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/mchVNcme9Os
03:36 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/7cl9wE8JBgM adult one using miliary gun. see how fast it runs out
03:36 AM XXCoder: 4 packs in less than minute
03:42 AM gloops: crazy to think a 20 year old kid was sent up in a wood and canvas plane with an 800 bhp engine bolted to it, with machine canons to kill other planes
03:42 AM XXCoder: and after a week training or so
03:42 AM XXCoder: yeah it was insane
03:43 AM XXCoder: oh apple should open source Lisa OS this year apparently
05:14 AM rebecca: anyone use a normally closed type inductive proximity sensor for their limit switches?
05:15 AM XXCoder: I saw some machine use em yeah
05:16 AM XXCoder: but safety proper NC is good yeah since wire get short it refuse to run rather than smash past limit :)
05:16 AM rebecca: normally open seems more common
05:16 AM rebecca: yeah exactly
05:16 AM XXCoder: induction is okay on repeatability
05:16 AM XXCoder: .003" or so if I recall?
05:17 AM XXCoder: chineseium ones anyway. unknown on good ones
05:17 AM rebecca: cool. yeah, people seem impressed with their repeatability
05:19 AM XXCoder: maybe better when it is done twice
05:19 AM XXCoder: move till detect, back off and move in, much slower till detect again
05:19 AM rebecca: my fav cheap china variety site has cheap NO inductive sensors.. tempting..
05:20 AM rebecca: but given i'm designing this machine from scratch, i might as well choose NC
05:20 AM XXCoder: nice, what type of machine?
05:22 AM rebecca: prob going to be based on 1500x1000x600 linear rails
05:22 AM XXCoder: cnc router?
05:22 AM gloops: good size
05:22 AM rebecca: going to see if i can get away with building the frame from formply
05:22 AM gloops: mine is about the same size
05:23 AM rebecca: yeah, cnc router that should be able to mill soft metals
05:23 AM XXCoder: I have bunch of sbr and ballscrews
05:23 AM XXCoder: dunno what to do with em
05:23 AM rebecca: cool
05:23 AM rebecca: gloops: how is your machine going?
05:24 AM rebecca: so you already have a CNC of some variety XXCoder
05:24 AM rebecca: ?
05:24 AM XXCoder: yeah chinese cnc router
05:25 AM rebecca: oh, what kind?
05:25 AM XXCoder: I was buying parts to make shitty cnc router, then make parts with it to make better one
05:25 AM XXCoder: but then I got job and bypassed that stage
05:25 AM rebecca: cool
05:25 AM rebecca: ahhhh haha
05:26 AM gloops: rebecca the basic build is done, quite a few bits and bobs to sort still though
05:27 AM XXCoder: gloops: make video of it cutting okay? also not handheld!
05:27 AM rebecca: gloops: neat. is it cutting yet?
05:28 AM gloops: oh no not cutting, no electrics on it yet
05:28 AM rebecca: ahhhhh
05:28 AM gloops: just the frame and screws all in place
05:28 AM rebecca: so you're using linear slides?
05:28 AM gloops: everything working ok by hand turning so far
05:28 AM gloops: yeah sbr 16
05:28 AM rebecca: ahhh, cool
05:29 AM XXCoder: sbr thought you was using linear rails
05:29 AM gloops: 6yeah they are linear rails - the round ones
05:30 AM XXCoder: oh linear rail to me is those flat ones with block
05:31 AM XXCoder: hm I may have confused your project with someone else
05:31 AM XXCoder: yours have welded steel strcuture mill?
05:31 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SBR16-300-1350-1350MM3-SETS-LINEAR-RAILS-3-SETS-BALL-SCREWS-BALLSCREW-RM1605/311367687009?
05:31 AM gloops: thats the stuff i bought
05:31 AM rebecca: gloops: what is the frame/gantry of your machine constructed from?
05:31 AM XXCoder: yah same as my currently useless set
05:31 AM gloops: box section steel, 60x40 and 40x40
05:32 AM gloops: they seem ok at this point XXCoder, i cant find much movement in them
05:32 AM XXCoder: if its chineseium you have real shitty bearings
05:32 AM XXCoder: I recommand buy replacement bearings, american made (or whatever your country is) and throw chinese bearings away
05:33 AM XXCoder: like capt hindsight always says, crunchy bearings heh
05:33 AM gloops: lol, nah im not spending that kind of cash, these will do
05:34 AM gloops: theyre fine, 100lb more gantry is weightless - and no play
05:34 AM XXCoder: yeah then its bunch of cleaning :)
05:34 AM gloops: or no play that will affect woodworking anyway
05:34 AM XXCoder: it would evenuallu eat into rails which isnt good thing
05:34 AM gloops: well i mounted the rails well about the bed they should avoid the full blast of the dust
05:34 AM rebecca: gloops: cool. i'm interested to see your machine in action :D
05:34 AM XXCoder: im saying bearing already have alum chips
05:35 AM XXCoder: mine come with em
05:35 AM XXCoder: I had to clean em a lot before there was no more alum chips
05:35 AM gloops: i cant get a decent photo of it where it is atm, plus its still very much in the rough
05:35 AM XXCoder: moved much more smoothluy afterwards too. still unoiled since I havent used em in actual machine
05:35 AM rebecca: gloops: did you bolt or weld the steel beams?
05:36 AM gloops: rebecca welded main frame, bolted key sections in slots to allow adjustment
05:36 AM rebecca: nice :)
05:37 AM gloops: turning 1 sbr mounting block bolt 1/4 turn is the difference between smooth and tight, you need some movement
05:37 AM rebecca: i am tempted to build mine from steel but i'm not terribly familiar with welding.. i don't trust my ability to build it accurate enough
05:37 AM XXCoder: gloops: yep. mine was umm crunchy lol
05:37 AM XXCoder: hard to discribe how it was
05:37 AM gloops: XXCoder it will wear the ally chips away when its running
05:38 AM XXCoder: sure but I rather get rid of it before I even ran it. its all clean now but also useless lol
05:38 AM gloops: must be a bad set you got XXCoder, honestly i was very wary of these when i bought them, but im pretty impressed - and relieved, they seem fine, no crunch no sticking
05:39 AM XXCoder: nice
05:39 AM XXCoder: yeah mine was pretty bad lol
05:39 AM gloops: maybe all change with some use lol
05:39 AM gloops: rebecca i half wished id built mine with wood when i was trying to weld it true
05:40 AM rebecca: hehe
05:40 AM XXCoder: how flat is SBR mount surfaces?
05:40 AM XXCoder: because surface affects SBR a lot.
05:40 AM archivist: rebecca, a wooden one http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_3414.html
05:41 AM gloops: at the moment just rusty box section - i will start doing some tests when its working, scrape as required, with a straight edge theyre ok atm
05:42 AM XXCoder: arch nice pic
05:42 AM XXCoder: cool gloop :)
05:42 AM rebecca: i'm outsourcing the construction accuracy problem by getting a bigger CNC router cut my formply components. And designing them in a way that bolting the components together should result in cancelling out most of the dimensional variation in the formply
05:43 AM gloops: rebecca are you making a plywood gantry?
05:43 AM rebecca: yeah
05:44 AM XXCoder: reb you can always do step-up accuracy like I orginially planned to
05:44 AM gloops: probably the best wood, solid wood sections will bend
05:44 AM rebecca: formply is quite a high density rigid ply.
05:44 AM XXCoder: build a crappy router, tune it till you get decent result, make good parts with it, once done and built frame, move electrics rails so on to it
05:45 AM gloops: the gatton plan seems popular
05:47 AM rebecca: i'm working on my own design. going to reinforce the bejebus out of it
05:49 AM gloops: weight shouldnt be a problem anyway
05:49 AM rebecca: using some similar techniques to a bench i made a while back: https://imgur.com/a/2xEOY
05:49 AM miss0r: chair repair complete. I will make sure to take a photo once i've put it back in place in one piece. (forgot to take a photo when i tested it)
05:49 AM XXCoder: boxed router design I see
05:50 AM XXCoder: quite strong.
05:50 AM miss0r: that doesn't look like mdf to me :]
05:50 AM gloops: thats one dave gatton design https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/8a/88/ce8a88aa61d9f338be2004a4ea5c059d.jpg
05:51 AM miss0r: I guess a pretty good machine can be made from MDF...
05:51 AM miss0r: It is pretty dense. some might even call it mediam density
05:51 AM miss0r: medium* heh
05:51 AM XXCoder: medium well done
05:52 AM rebecca: i mostly despise MDF
05:52 AM gloops: problem with mdf - its got a stability of about 2 weeks in an unheated shed
05:52 AM XXCoder: isnt there sea mdf or something
05:52 AM XXCoder: with thick protection against water
05:52 AM rebecca: a large part probably due to having to CNC route it for work
05:52 AM rebecca: the dust is evil
05:52 AM gloops: probably is XXCoder
05:53 AM gloops: once you make your wooden router you can make replacement aluminium components for it - on it
05:53 AM XXCoder: rebecca: ever machine fiberglass?
05:53 AM XXCoder: mdf dust is notjing compared to that.
05:53 AM rebecca: XXCoder: nope! haha
05:53 AM XXCoder: if you let it get dusty it eats tools
05:54 AM rebecca: eeek
05:54 AM XXCoder: .0002" or so each part in my case lol but sure gets dull fast, 100 times faster if it runs dry and makes dust
05:54 AM rebecca: dust management is where so many hobby CNCs go wrong IMHO.
05:54 AM rebecca: it's so important
05:55 AM archivist: that and the cable chains
05:55 AM rebecca: archivist: as in, not having them?
05:55 AM archivist: yup
05:56 AM XXCoder: thankfully mine has em
05:56 AM archivist: or radius too small
05:56 AM rebecca: they aren't terribly expensive
05:56 AM rebecca: and they look so pretty :D
05:56 AM XXCoder: heh very cheap
05:56 AM XXCoder: both cable chains on my machine together was under 10 bucks'
05:57 AM XXCoder: both was one meter
05:58 AM * rebecca nods
05:59 AM gloops: drag chain - yes ill get round to that later heh
05:59 AM XXCoder: when I saw... 3d models of chain so it could be printed I went "HUH???"
05:59 AM XXCoder: I still wonder what the heck what its for.
06:00 AM XXCoder: typical print would have layers so its weak there, and SLA well the goo is very expensive
06:00 AM XXCoder: SLS maybe worth it but..
06:00 AM XXCoder: franjly its FAR cheaper to buy em
06:02 AM gloops: have you thought of using ally extrusions for the main sections rebecca?
06:03 AM gloops: like wood frame with extrusions for the linear bearings to fit on
06:03 AM gloops: lot easier to connect bits together with the systems with ready made t channel for bolts and so on
06:04 AM XXCoder: also bit more pricy
06:04 AM XXCoder: extrusions get up in price way faster past 550mm
06:04 AM rebecca: gloops: considered that. if the rigidity isn't sufficient i will explore alternatives.. but going to see how it works first
06:04 AM gloops: it is a bit more cost, but balance that against the time of marking and drilling and so on
06:04 AM XXCoder: can always add fins for rigidity
06:05 AM gloops: you look at ichs he builds a machine in a day, ive been faffing about for weeks
06:05 AM XXCoder: get angle alum and stick on sides for example
06:05 AM XXCoder: makes it way more resistant to bending
06:05 AM XXCoder: gloops: ich builds hundreds of machines a year
06:05 AM XXCoder: so yeah
06:05 AM rebecca: hehe, have been considering a variety of hacks for increasing rigidity
06:06 AM rebecca: bolt in steel beams being one
06:06 AM gloops: not so much for rigidity but for ease of assembly, the slots are pretty much bang where you need them, just bolt rails on - 10 minutes
06:06 AM XXCoder: gloop think we are talking about different things :)
06:06 AM gloops: if you have solid wooden frame you would only need a small ally section to bear the rails
06:07 AM XXCoder: yep we wasnt talking about rail bases
06:07 AM * rebecca nods
06:08 AM gloops: wood isnt so hard to screw to anyway
06:08 AM XXCoder: it is when its mdf but yeah
06:09 AM gloops: 10mm plate is a bit more labour intensive lol
06:10 AM gloops: anyway bbl
06:55 AM miss0r: Here is the picture of the chair after i did the repair: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20180101_132520-8k8Ay0IS.jpg
06:55 AM miss0r: gloops ^^
06:56 AM archivist: old 4 leg
06:57 AM miss0r: yep. happy to bring it back. You can hardly tell its been repaired
06:57 AM archivist: add a ring to strengthen
06:57 AM archivist: wooden legs?
06:58 AM miss0r: yeah
06:58 AM miss0r: some sort of shaped plywood
06:59 AM miss0r: It was broken in that bend there: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20180101_1325201-OAOaGe8H.jpg
07:01 AM miss0r: its hard to tell, but all the legs are bolted to a square tube in the middle
07:03 AM archivist: that chair I showed had the tube in the middle split a couple of times so I added a ring to spread the stress to the other legs
07:04 AM miss0r: Indeed. I hope this will last a long time. I'm never gonna sit in it again. I'll leave breaking it to someone else
07:18 AM miss0r: ... excess flood?
07:18 AM archivist: spammer that has been in other channels too
07:18 AM miss0r: too bad he was k-lined before I could get his IP...
07:18 AM archivist: asfdangbier526 (~fiefgosr@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::b9d:d001) has joined #linuxcnc
07:18 AM miss0r: ahh... :]
07:19 AM archivist: there is one from a different ip in #linuxcnc-devel
07:20 AM archivist: hehe got bored because did not get banned
07:20 AM miss0r: aussie
07:20 AM archivist: likely from somewhere else using anothers ip
07:20 AM miss0r: yep
07:21 AM miss0r: something is off. australia is not big on IPv6
07:21 AM archivist: ip used in other chan SsJVasto826 (~fzcqj@119.156.124.178) has joined #linuxcnc-devel
07:23 AM miss0r: pakistan... I wonder what is on the other end of that IP....
07:23 AM * miss0r starts to poke around
07:29 AM miss0r: not ketting much...
07:29 AM miss0r: getting*
07:31 AM miss0r: I had a guy probing my firewall once. So I started probing the other way :] found out the host in question was running a small 'private' irc server with only one channel in it. I connected to it, finding the password was a joke. Then I started asking question in there on what they were doing. and acting like the super hacker :] The server was shut down within a minut haha
07:32 AM miss0r: damn. Getting nothing from that IP :-/ Would've been fun thou
07:33 AM archivist: I had some spam on a wiki from a windows box, it was wide open wrote something in his root dir informing him :)
07:34 AM miss0r: hehe. I did something simular once. I was living in an apartment complex with a shared fiber connection. This guy was doing what he could to get into my PC. Turns out his PC was completely open. So I poked around, and found a quite nasty picture of his seriously overweight goth girlfriend, wrote a note on the picture to 'STOP TRYING TO GET INTO MY PC' and placed it as his background picture :D
07:35 AM miss0r: oh... by nasty I mean stark naked
07:37 AM miss0r: i still operate a few servers for a small company. The most I do about this stuff now, is report the IP to the provider & block it
07:37 AM miss0r: but the reporting part is absolutly symbolic. nothing ever comes of it
07:48 AM gloops: miss0r nobody would ever know - re the chair
07:48 AM miss0r: gloops: indeed. I was very pleased
07:48 AM miss0r: Repairing antique furniture is not exactly my strong suite
07:54 AM gloops: skilled job really, you need to know how to make antique furniture to repair it i suppose
07:55 AM miss0r: I think that is a fair assumption
07:56 AM archivist: there is a problem with anteeeeek repair, use old glues that will fall apart again or new glue
07:57 AM miss0r: To me theres only one answer to that
07:57 AM miss0r: unless it somehow effects the old stuff in a bad way
07:59 AM archivist: you can take old glued joints apart in the future, but new glue you wont need to
07:59 AM archivist: a conservation type would use old glue
07:59 AM gloops: a lot of it doesnt need glue, they had that worked out, it is glued but not necessary for many joints
08:00 AM archivist: I had to fix a longcase where it had fallen on the owner
08:01 AM gloops: wedged tenons, dovetails, a dovetailed drawer doesnt need glue if its properly made, i doubt it would ever come apart
08:01 AM archivist: it was a kit
08:01 AM archivist: clocks are not made that well
08:02 AM gloops: a lot of thinner rails with clocks, small scribed tenons and such
08:02 AM archivist: tenons!
08:02 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=vernon+pd
08:03 AM gloops: very nice, the frames must be tenoned?
08:03 AM gloops: you can keep any tenon tight with an offset dowel, no glue
08:05 AM archivist: they just glued 45 deg wedges between corners
08:06 AM archivist: plus a few square nails
08:06 AM gloops: no screws? lol
08:06 AM gloops: cant see it being a very old clock
08:06 AM archivist: 1700's
08:06 AM gloops: wow
08:06 AM archivist: maybe 1800
08:07 AM archivist: owner of that clock did not last that long after getting it back home
08:07 AM gloops: with most plinths and pelmets some kind of block is screwed internal of the mitre,
08:08 AM archivist: you can see wedges on the first image
08:09 AM gloops: interesting
08:10 AM gloops: primitive joinery for an exquisite facade
08:11 AM archivist: iirc I did some touch up painting on the dial too
08:13 AM gloops: cut with a router jig ? http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=279&subject=9567
08:14 AM archivist: those are offcuts from something spreading the load when gluing the case below
08:16 AM gloops: ah right, wondered if some later work had been done on it
08:17 AM archivist: I did scrounge some oak for that case to fill in the gaps
08:18 AM gloops: http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=128&subject=9416
08:19 AM gloops: mitre doesnt seem to work at the bottom but might be made to fit something - but a couple of old nails or screws in that block maybe
08:19 AM archivist: you can see the old square nails in that image
08:21 AM archivist: and the pot of modern glue :)
08:21 AM gloops: yeah one on the other side
08:21 AM gloops: id love to mess about with stuff like that for a living
08:22 AM archivist: I was getting moaned at because of the time it took, have a case here I am in the middle of
08:23 AM archivist: did get a request for dont in time for xmas..... oops
08:23 AM archivist: done
08:24 AM archivist: hard to get the polish right
08:26 AM gloops: lol
08:27 AM gloops: cant put the patina on new wood
08:27 AM gloops: but can make it look similar, so only arthur negus would know
08:28 AM archivist: he dead, so dont have to worry
08:30 AM gloops: david dickenson then, i think he used his tanning lotion
08:31 AM archivist: I think the vienna clock used the same tanning lotion
08:32 AM archivist: takes ages to mix stains and experiment to get a match
08:33 AM archivist: then you cannot remember what the last mix was
08:33 AM gloops: ive tried in the past probably every way i can devise to match a finish or copy one anyway, not easy, not possible anyway
08:33 AM gloops: usually resorted to spray colouring to get a base
08:36 AM gloops: lightly tinted laquer, you can build the colour up and vary it, darker where the original is darker and so on, then polish
08:39 AM archivist: I have a bunch of waxes too for filling and bodging
08:45 AM gloops: there was a family up here somewhere who made a lot of money from art forgery, not just paintings, antiques and other stuff, when they told their methods it was laughable, coffee and teas stains, bit of old wood they picked up off a fence lol, cant remember their names they fooled the experts
08:46 AM archivist: speaking to someone at one place the new is supposed to stand out so you know it is a repair
08:46 AM gloops: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/family-of-forgers-fooled-art-world-with-array-of-finely-crafted-fakes-400718.html
08:47 AM gloops: i suppose yeah, i dont buy antiques but maybe a good honest repair is preferable to a hidden one
08:49 AM gloops: not quite the same story that was on calendar - says there they went to great lengths to source materials, on calendar it said they used household items and rubbish
08:50 AM archivist: while I coloured the outside to match on that case, left the inside as new
08:51 AM archivist: it is a compromise between looks and "history"
08:51 AM gloops: suppose its like a car - if you spot one bit of work thats been done, you start wondering what else isnt right
08:51 AM gloops: if it isnt hidden then its more honest
08:52 AM archivist: but cars and everything get repaired through time
08:52 AM gloops: true
08:52 AM archivist: one is supposed to save parts replaced , keep them as history
08:53 AM Tom_L: -2�F
08:53 AM archivist: we have wooden bearings at Leawood that we show the punters
08:53 AM miss0r: I'm here working on getting the spindle for the EDM done. I'm wondering: What would be the best material to have the carbon brushes rub on? (not going very fast ~10rpm)
08:54 AM archivist: copper seems the metal of choice for carbon brushes
08:54 AM gloops: brass or copper at a guess?
08:55 AM miss0r: yeah. I'll need to go get some copper. (I don't have that size at hand)
08:55 AM miss0r: most the copper I have is square stock, too small to turn what I need out of
08:56 AM gloops: what kind of diameter?
08:56 AM archivist: sheet and bend/roll it
08:56 AM miss0r: I'll just need a round shape of 18.3mm
08:56 AM miss0r: diameter
08:56 AM gloops: copper pipe, soldered on maybe
08:56 AM miss0r: hmm... thats a thought
08:56 AM gloops: and faced up
08:57 AM gloops: probably work on steel anyway 10 rpm isnt much
08:57 AM miss0r: but the current is worth mentioning
08:58 AM miss0r: As you can see in there: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20180101_155652-IkicphWv.jpg
08:58 AM miss0r: not the current, but where I need to put in the round copper
08:59 AM gloops: is that a diesel injector?
08:59 AM miss0r: its my take on a rotating EDM spindle with coolant through the electrode
09:00 AM gloops: ahh right, looks well made anyway
09:00 AM miss0r: Thanks. Its one of thoes projects with no real drawrings. Just working it out as I go on
09:01 AM Tom_L: best kind sometimes
09:02 AM miss0r: Tom_L: When you have no real idea of what you want/how to do it, you just have to go along tometimes ;)
09:04 AM miss0r: The real challange with this, for me anyway, was to get coolant & electricity flowing to the electrode, without having the same potential on the aluminium block.
09:05 AM miss0r: So the spindle part with the brushes touching, is completely isolated from the rest. The only current that will be able to flow to the block is what any impurities in the demineralized water will conduct
09:05 AM miss0r: and I'm trying to filter that as good as I can
09:07 AM miss0r: How do you guys think stainless steel will fare as the brush surface?
09:09 AM miss0r: wow. forgot the time. I will be back later
10:42 AM gloops: nothing done today, should have known xmas was a bad time to do anything
10:43 AM jthornton: I thought it was much warmer out now it's 9°F (-13c)
10:44 AM gloops: global warming jthornton
10:46 AM Tom_L: jthornton, you still have some of those 5A breakers?
10:47 AM jthornton: I think so
10:50 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: over here its 9.7°C outside. PLUS
10:51 AM Loetmichel: so much for snow this year. ;)
10:51 AM jthornton: nice spring weather
10:51 AM Tom_L: 2�F currently, was -2�F when i took the dogs out
10:51 AM Tom_L: sudden warming trend
10:52 AM Loetmichel: a few years ago we had 1' snow about now... ;)
10:56 AM Loetmichel: (ok, mre like 6")
11:01 AM gloops: more likely to get snow at easter than xmas here
11:02 AM gloops: contrary to what most people think
11:02 AM archivist: went camping one year at easter...effin snow
11:03 AM gloops: it snowed day daughter was born - april 20th
11:03 AM jthornton: same here usually January is the start of snow possibilities
11:04 AM jthornton: got a third hen on the nest atm
11:04 AM jdh: January is usually fairly warm here.
11:04 AM jdh: but, not today.
11:04 AM gloops: australia jdh?
11:04 AM jesseg: That's nice, the new year started out with a partly sunny day here.
11:05 AM jdh: gloops: coastal NC.us
11:05 AM jdh: 70f is pretty common
11:05 AM gloops: very nice
11:05 AM jdh: 25f today :(
11:08 AM archivist: you lot moaning about the weather like a bunch of brits
11:08 AM Rab: 27F here...this conversation is making me think I should do some yardwork, and maybe have a nice picnic.
11:09 AM jdh: I also have the flu or something at the moment so I'm whingier than usual
11:16 AM jthornton: Linux the software you love to hate...
11:17 AM Tom_L: Windows the software you hate to love
11:17 AM jesseg: Windows is software? I thought it was malware.
11:17 AM jesseg: ok sorry I couldn't resist :P
11:18 AM jthornton: yup, brand new debian 9 install and the synaptic package manager fails to start from the applications menu
11:18 AM jesseg: ahhh how annoying is that
11:18 AM jthornton: I give up for today trying to build a damn debian uspace
11:18 AM Tom_L: the chickens miss you anyway
11:21 AM jthornton: gloops: got a third pullet kicked in paying rent today
11:23 AM gloops: jthornton you need a sign now - free range eggs $ per dozen
11:23 AM gloops: not sure how much eggs are in the usa
11:24 AM archivist: probably busy eating the profits for breakfast :)
11:24 AM gloops: or bake a lot, nothing compares to sponge cake made with real eggs
11:25 AM gloops: 6 eggs is a good way to start the day
11:39 AM holzjunkie: guten abend allerseits
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: noch da
11:45 AM gloops: hi Ichs
11:46 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: happy new year cris
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: Chris_Morley: 7i92 ?
11:55 AM Chris_Morley: Happy new year. What about the 7i92?
11:55 AM IchGucksLive: can you put this inside the pnconf
11:56 AM Chris_Morley: ahh, yes pncconf is falling behind...
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: there is no firmware for almost all low cost bob
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: and this gives the best to go for ETH update to almost all mashines
11:57 AM Chris_Morley: I was working on a version that probed the hardware - long time ago, got stuck on a detail and git interested in other things
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: its now about 0,5% and lower on lcnc
11:58 AM Chris_Morley: I'll see if I can look again probable the 7i76e would be good too....
11:58 AM IchGucksLive: yes freecad is now also a big deal
11:58 AM IchGucksLive: Thanks
11:59 AM Chris_Morley: I wasn'r sure anybody really used it much anymore actually
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: my YT channel tels different
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: espaciol on the ETH interst to the 10000mashines week gone made or sold
12:01 PM Chris_Morley: Anyways i'll try to find some time
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: thanks again
12:01 PM gloops: needs 4th axis toolpathing, then it will get some interest, and 3d/relief
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: already in 0,17
12:02 PM gloops: not seen any indexing
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: best to go deskproto
12:03 PM gloops: ive got something to do it, but i think freecad would get a lot of interest if it added 4 axis, lot of people ask about 4 axis cam on facebook
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: i got 2 20GB xp partitions
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: the fusion can also do 4th
12:05 PM gloops: deskproto is not a bad price
12:05 PM gloops: compared to some
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: il leve it free as i need only 3-4times a year
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: noch da ?
12:25 PM holzjunkie: jupp
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: ich bin der typ hier https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: und sitze n ZW
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: was für teile machst du ais holz
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: freisculpten oder
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/fit_we.jpg sowas
12:29 PM holzjunkie: noch garnicht's :-D
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: eigene maschiine geplant
12:29 PM miss0r: mleh ! When you know you have a box of assorted o-rings, but you can't find it!
12:29 PM holzjunkie: bin noch beim einrichten meiner Gildemeister nef480 Bj `81
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: fanuc11
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: klick mal doppet auf meine nick
12:33 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: umrüstung auf 12nm Stepper und anschluss ist erfolgt übersetzung stimmt auch microstepping ist 25 Home switches sind auch dran achsendschalter muß ich nochmal be sind momentan als öffner nicht nachgedacht und dann auch noch parallel werd sie umklemmen auf schließer
12:34 PM holzjunkie: grundsätzlich mache ich maschinenbau
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: warumm keine 8Nm hybride
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: und mit nur Halbschritt
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: ohne microstepping
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: das bringt dann kraft und speed
12:35 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: mein größtes problem im Moment ist aber der viel zu hohe jitter und meine englisch glatze
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: was für ein rechner haste denn
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: nimm den fujitsu siemens 5915
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: 50 euro
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: oder gleich eine Netzwerk platine
12:37 PM holzjunkie: 8nm fand ich etwas dünn halbschritt ist zu ungenau brauche eine Auflösung von um die 0.001mm
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: das realisiert man mit einem AT5
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: bei 8fachm microschritt hast du nur noch 1/32 kraft
12:39 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: von diesen netzwerkplatinen habe ich auch schon gelesen wie funktioniert das praktisch ???
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: statt parport kabel ist dann ien netzwerkkabel verlegt
12:40 PM holzjunkie: auch richtig meinst du at5 Zahnriemen ???
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: jas
12:40 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: und das ist dann auch realtime ???
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: ja
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: 8Mhz
12:41 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: cool
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: 7i92
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: oder gleich eine 7i76e
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: die kann dann auhc die drehzahl und die spindle sync
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: damit fällt dann die latency weg
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: denn die karte hat ihr eigens clocking
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC:::84.html?MODsid=8366e6582286af2a5bedd83b95a5d07b
12:46 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: ja ok das wäre der Königsweg
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: das wäre eigentlich echte servos
12:47 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: neulich hatte ich die Netwerkkarten noch gesehen
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: mit schritmotoren fehlt die rückmeldung
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: die einfachen gehen nicht
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/FPGA-Karten/Ethernet:::84_94_125.html
12:48 PM holzjunkie: das stimmt es sei den man nimmt einen Inkrementalgeber
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: die für 130 ist das minimum
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: damit ist dann 24 out und 10 in
12:52 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: oder die hier https://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-200KHz-Ethernet-MACH3-Card-Breakout-Board-Spindle-Motor-Motion-Controller/252363083424?hash=item3ac2030ea0:m:mG135-WNyKvtBhU856CZjKA
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: das ist dann nur für mach3 und auch nur für den treiber
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: den unterstützt auch nur die vollversion
12:55 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: das doch .......
01:00 PM holzjunkie: andersrum heisßt das die mesa macht dann bei einem rechnerausfall auch weiter ???
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: nein natürlich nicht
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: die puffert aber
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: 8-100mBit
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: ich bin meistens täglich ab 19uhr hier Bis morgen Gn8
01:12 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: schönen feierabend ich hab das grad mal eben überschlagen das würde bedeuten ich brauche eine übersetzung von 25:1 reichlich schwierig bei einem 25er microstepping kann ich schlitten nciht halten. werde im laufe der Woche mal die Spindel anklemmen und dann mal sehen was geht
01:52 PM gloops: supermoon on new years day, this would be a sign in the old days
02:09 PM fragalot: Hi all
02:09 PM gloops: evening
02:12 PM fragalot: Finally got to break out my mill again today for the first time in ~6 years or so
02:13 PM fragalot: I had forgotten just how utterly unusable it was :-)
02:13 PM dioz: milling is bad for your health
02:15 PM gloops: what kind of mill?
02:15 PM dioz: causes it causes temporal dysplasia
02:15 PM dioz: then your wife gets mad and hits you
02:15 PM fragalot: it's fine i'm wearing protection
02:15 PM dioz: k
02:15 PM dioz: just letting you know
02:16 PM dioz: it's not quite like welding galv iron
02:16 PM dioz: but damn near close enough
02:16 PM fragalot: gloops: "sable 2015" -- it's making me consider throwing this one out, and either converting my RF45 to CNC, or tossing that out as well and buying a "purpose built" cnc mill
02:16 PM gloops: build a new one, in the spirit of the great tank builders
02:17 PM fragalot: so far i'm looking at Syil as the most likely candidate -- limitations would be budget given it's just for hobby use, and being able to actually get it in the shed
02:19 PM fragalot: either that, or a prototrak 2-OP if they are willing to shift the decimal point to the left
02:20 PM gloops: what is the sable doing wrong?
02:21 PM fragalot: the bed has a .5mm warp, and there is too much play on the Z-carriage in the Y direction that I can't really seem to get rid of without rebuilding the X-carriage
02:22 PM fragalot: when drilling PCB's (which is why I originally bought it for) I can see the Z-assembly flexing before it pierces the copper
02:23 PM dioz: take pics
02:23 PM dioz: show us
02:23 PM gloops: some well placed bracing would cure most of that - mill the bed flat
02:23 PM fragalot: gloops: that's what I've done to get around the bed part
02:23 PM dioz: like gloops i assume there's some way to brace it
02:24 PM fragalot: and that's working out OK so far, but really i'm looking to upgrade to a mill, rather than a glorified router
02:25 PM dioz: fragalot: you ever welded galv iron?
02:25 PM fragalot: dioz: http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/portaal.jpg i'm suspecting the X rails flexing ; so to brace it i'd either have to add or space out a different rail, upgrade to 16mm rails, or..
02:26 PM dioz: fill in the box
02:26 PM gloops: zinc vapour wont kill you, it just knocks you out
02:26 PM fragalot: dioz: who hasn't?
02:26 PM dioz: make the bottom plate and the top plate bigger
02:26 PM dioz: then fill in the entire box
02:27 PM gloops: unspported rails?
02:27 PM fragalot: Yarp.
02:29 PM fragalot: it's an alright engraver, but it just doesn't do, and never will do, what I'd like it to do
02:29 PM fragalot: not without replacing so many parts that I might as well have started over anyway
02:30 PM gloops: that will never mill metals
02:30 PM fragalot: Nope.
02:32 PM fragalot: hence me looking at either converting my RF45 and putting in months of effort to get it to provide barely acceptable results; or buying a purpose built machine that will give barely acceptable results with only several days of effort.
02:32 PM fragalot: :)
02:33 PM fragalot: what do you guys run?
02:33 PM gloops: not finished mine yet
02:39 PM gloops: a machine of great expectations
02:40 PM fragalot: any pics?
02:40 PM Wolf__: I have my some day it might be done X2(ish) conversion
02:43 PM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/OYrul3t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZCsPPNP.jpg
02:46 PM gloops: not got any pics at mo
02:48 PM fragalot: looks good so far Wolf__, is that a pneumatic rattler to speed up tool changes?
02:49 PM Wolf__: straight piston that is a 4”, going to change it over to cam lever to get more force
02:49 PM gloops: looks sturdy
02:50 PM Wolf__: going to be running TTS on both of my mills
02:50 PM fragalot: Neat
02:50 PM Wolf__: just got a 6” cylinder off ebay last week, that one is going on my 840 jet mill
02:50 PM Wolf__: will give over 2500lbs of push =)
02:51 PM fragalot: shame though with the TTS that they tend to pull out with high helix cutters pushing over 3hp.. Which is obviously a concern on othe X2 :D
02:52 PM Wolf__: yeah, neither machine is even close to 3hp lol
02:52 PM fragalot: on a more serious note though; what if you run out of air halfway through the job?
02:53 PM Wolf__: i’m having a bad day then, one shop has 80gallon compressor, other has a 2hp 40 gallon
02:53 PM gloops: a bit of mine but not bolted up here just resting in place http://picpaste.com/machine_abbey_011-C0Z9xV0m.JPG
02:55 PM Wolf__: need air for the mess maker anyways https://i.imgur.com/fIhz3fa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6h18AtY.jpg
02:56 PM fragalot: Wolf__: only reason I mentioned that is because I didn't take power failure into account when I made my first mill ~12yrs ago & crashed it hard then.. Granted, it did involve the Z-axis careening down from machine Z0 to the bed, rather than just releasing a cutter
02:56 PM gloops: whats that cutting Wolf?
02:57 PM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/IKemF8k.png?1
02:57 PM fragalot: you have to love those mess-makers though
02:58 PM Wolf__: mist setup works great
03:00 PM Wolf__: pic with all the chips was milling the stepper mount in this pic https://i.imgur.com/cbTjU5A.jpg
03:00 PM Wolf__: though it was a partial design fail lol
03:02 PM Wolf__: missed a measurement during design https://i.imgur.com/GgJEngr.png?1 lol
03:02 PM fragalot: nice organized workbench :D
03:03 PM Wolf__: its worse right now… https://i.imgur.com/0r177E3.jpg
03:03 PM fragalot: I have about the same amount of equiptment in half the space atm
03:03 PM Wolf__: still trying to figure out where I’m putting the 2 rolling toolboxes full of tooling
03:03 PM fragalot: I can't AFFORD to leave a tool out when it's not in use, lol
03:04 PM enleth: Wolf__: SAMLA boxes back in the corner?
03:04 PM fragalot: (which is one of the challenges in finding a decent metal-cutting cnc mill)
03:05 PM Wolf__: enleth: which corner lol
03:05 PM enleth: Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/0r177E3.jpg far corner
03:06 PM Wolf__: the plastic totes? just generic rubber made I think
03:06 PM enleth: the transparent stacking boxes with black lids
03:06 PM enleth: they looked like SAMLA boxes from IKEA
03:08 PM Wolf__: my lathe now has a lead screw again, yay for almost being able to thread stuff lol
03:08 PM enleth: FYI probably the best shop storage boxes available anywhere, dirt cheap, transparent and different sizes stack properly
03:11 PM fragalot: I don't really like 'm
03:11 PM fragalot: it seems that every time I look at one of those transparent totes funny they just crack
03:21 PM gloops: bullet boxes
03:23 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-50-Cal-Army-Ammo-Metal-Storage-Box-Ammunition-Surplus-Tin-Tool-Box/301820817483?
03:25 PM fragalot: i've been looking in more detail into what people do to conver the RF45 clones
03:26 PM skunkworks: probably lots of info on cnczone
03:26 PM fragalot: and.. Other than using the base castings as filler material there doesn't seem to be anything left most of the time, haha
03:27 PM fragalot: great results, though.
03:27 PM Roguish: tons of conversion stories on cnczone.
03:28 PM fragalot: Aye - i'm reading 'm
03:29 PM fragalot: all of the best ones seem to do away with the dovetails entirely & replacing it all with linear slides - which seems fair given how wavy mine are
03:29 PM Roguish: that's what i've read also. so why start with a machine at all? how about a new, original machine
03:31 PM fragalot: I'm beginning to think I simply don't have the patience (nor lifting equiptment) to do this to my RF45
03:32 PM Roguish: depends on what you're after. what's the goal? speed? accuracy? prettiness?
03:33 PM fragalot: rigid accuracy in a low footprint package
03:34 PM fragalot: speed has to be high enough to cut rather than rub; but i'm not that concerned about rapid moves shifting from one end of the machine to the other faster than I can blink
03:34 PM Roguish: what accuracy ? cm? mm? micron?
03:35 PM fragalot: I'd be happy with a repeatable .02mm
03:36 PM gloops: c5 screws then
03:36 PM Roguish: probably requires good ball screws, and tight gibs.
03:36 PM Roguish: and modest speed.
03:38 PM Roguish: forget the stepper motors, get real servos. any kind with good feedback control. all around, don't get cheap.
03:39 PM fragalot: Yup - still part of me is thinking about simply selling off the RF45 and getting a purpose built pre-made machine instead
03:40 PM gloops: a double ballnut for a 2005 c5 is £175
03:40 PM Roguish: may be quicker/less expensive in the long run.
03:40 PM fragalot: the dovetails on mine aren't great as the previous owner ran them dry for about 8 years, and i'm fairly sure they forgot to put the bearings in the spindle in the factory
03:40 PM gloops: although that is chicken feed for milling machines
03:41 PM fragalot: gloops: shim stock, really.. Especially since the £ bills are now a nice sturdy plastic
03:43 PM fragalot: Roguish: have you got any suggestions?
03:44 PM Roguish: not really... been pondering the same thing. I have a bidgeport series II (5000 lbs) with LCNC on it. runs pretty good, but doesn't belong to me. and not quite as accurate as I would like.
03:45 PM fragalot: bridgeports are out of the question as I have no room for a machine of that size
03:45 PM Roguish: I would like something smaller, and more accurate.
03:45 PM fragalot: the RF45 is about the largest I can fit; so i'm leaning towards Syil as there seems to be a dutch reseller of those
03:46 PM Roguish: are you in the UK?
03:46 PM fragalot: .be
03:49 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Syil-X2-CNC-Milling-Machine/360545592989?
03:49 PM gloops: no specs for accuracy or anything though
03:50 PM gloops: a mere 220mm X
03:50 PM fragalot: i'm more concerned with the 80Y
03:51 PM gloops: small
03:51 PM fragalot: Indeed.
03:52 PM fragalot: I've currently asked for more information about the X5 & x7 series, as I think those would be more "my size"
03:53 PM gloops: X7 weighs in at £18000
03:53 PM fragalot: for the base model, or the servo model?
03:54 PM gloops: this one is 4 axis https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Syil-X7-plus-CNC-Milling-Machine/360196219950?
03:55 PM gloops: repeatability .01mm
03:55 PM gloops: that is servos 8nm
03:55 PM fragalot: let me rephrase
03:55 PM fragalot: I'm currently eying up the x5 series.
03:55 PM fragalot: :D
03:56 PM gloops: 18k - only a months work if you get the orders, a month or 2 anyway
03:57 PM fragalot: thing is - this is for hobby use only ; contractually not allowed to have a side business
03:57 PM gloops: ahh
03:57 PM fragalot: if I had orders coming in I wouldn't be looking at the hobby class machines
03:59 PM gloops: well i imagine that would be suitable for commercial use, but yeah
04:01 PM fragalot: yeah the x7plus would be an OK bootstrap machine
04:02 PM gloops: some substantial used cnc machines for not a lot of money really, but most are outmoded control boards, probably need electronics refit anyway
04:02 PM fragalot: need to carry it into the shed though
04:03 PM fragalot: there's a narrow gravel road of ~140m that's barely wide enough for a small car leading up to it, but then i'd still need to get it through an 80cm wide alleyway, and then lift it up over a small step into the shed
04:04 PM fragalot: used machine needing overhaul? great.
04:04 PM fragalot: used machine needing a forklift?... nope
04:05 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Milling-Machine-Complete-with-Loads-of-Extras/253335551599?
04:05 PM gloops: 3. Accuracy - 0.005mm << realy?
04:06 PM gloops: really
04:06 PM fragalot: if I had the space I know of a good Quick-Tech VMC that went not to long ago
04:06 PM fragalot: haha
04:06 PM fragalot: that's more of a router though, whilst i'm looking for a mill
04:06 PM gloops: yeah was just looking through the list out of curiousity
04:07 PM fragalot: clean build though
04:08 PM gloops: smart looking machine yes
04:13 PM ehrmantraut: Hallo, wie kann ich das Interface wechseln?
04:14 PM Deejay: gn8
04:15 PM gloops: Loetmichel
04:18 PM fragalot: Anyway - i'm off. been nice talking to you
04:19 PM gloops: have a nice day
04:27 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Conect-CNC-mill-milling-machine-mini-desktop-desk-top-like-denford-boxford/272997750302?
04:28 PM Tom_L: put a kurt vise on that and see if you can mill something :)
04:29 PM gloops: lol
04:30 PM gloops: no ill keep working on my humble design
04:30 PM gloops: for 18k id be looking at houses not hobby machines
04:30 PM JT-Shopp: Tom_L: we have 2°F for tonight
04:32 PM Tom_L: i was kinda surprised i could cut with at 3/8" cutter on the sherline last night
04:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Shims/X_Axis_ballnut_shim2.jpg
04:32 PM Tom_L: it bitched and moaned but did it
04:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Shims/X_Axis_ballnut_shim1.jpg
04:33 PM Tom_L: the 2 holes on the right is where the 'table' is supoosed to stop :)
04:34 PM Tom_L: says 8 for the low here
04:36 PM Tom_L: JT-Shopp, you got ice or something?
04:36 PM Tom_L: your connection hasn't been the best
05:17 PM gloops: https://www.engineeringforchange.org/the-concrete-lathe-world-war-i-technology-meets-21st-century-design/
05:17 PM gloops: this must be worth trying
05:22 PM dioz: a concrete frame/body ?
05:22 PM SpeedEvil: I'e been thinking of similar things to that
05:22 PM dioz: is that what it's suggesting?
05:22 PM dioz: i'm much too lazy to click the link and read it all
05:22 PM gloops: yeah, ideal material
05:22 PM gloops: these were used in ww1 for mass production
05:25 PM dioz: i could see that
05:25 PM gloops: rigid, absorbs vibes, unlimited scope for shape and dimension almost, just got to get your fitting attached to it, or in it
05:25 PM gloops: cheap
05:26 PM dioz: do you think they used rebar or some form of metal enforcement?
05:26 PM gloops: quick to make
05:26 PM dioz: reinforcement
05:26 PM gloops: probably yeah
05:33 PM dioz: it would be a permanent fixture
05:33 PM dioz: i don't think you'd be moving it after you made it
05:33 PM gloops: well it wont get stolen
05:33 PM dioz: true
05:34 PM gloops: you can move it around on rollers - some scaffolding poles, and a lever
05:36 PM dioz: i'd think you'd have to take it all apart
05:36 PM dioz: to move the base pieces
05:37 PM dioz: i guess it depends how you made the frame
05:37 PM dioz: i'd probably make it in two pieces
05:37 PM dioz: anything is possible if you have enough beer i guess
05:39 PM gloops: im doing my wood lathe like this i think
05:51 PM Cromaglious_: hmmm, I should put my scaffolds together
05:56 PM ziper1: how do you make a high tolerance machine using a low tolerance one
05:57 PM gloops: operator skill
06:00 PM Tom_L: and patience
06:01 PM XXCoder: gloops: yep they had maybe 10 lathes pre-war. they needed thousands.
06:01 PM XXCoder: so they also needed tons of metal. so they come up with it
06:11 PM gloops: cast iron was too precious - needed that for guns
06:12 PM gloops: i dont know though, concrete does some shifting while its drying, and its drying for a long time
06:13 PM XXCoder: better word is cure
06:13 PM XXCoder: cure time grows exponentally with how large volume is. hoover dam is not cured yet
06:13 PM XXCoder: and wont for thousand years
06:15 PM ziper1: i had to break myself of ever saying "drying" after doing fiberglass work
06:17 PM SpeedEvil: Err - concrete cures through - it does not set from the edge. Hoover dam was also cured in small bits.
06:18 PM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: yeah otherwise it would fall apart.
06:18 PM SpeedEvil: You may be thinking of carbonation of the concrete from carbon dioxide on the outside skin. This is not setting.
06:18 PM XXCoder: not thinking of that
06:20 PM gloops: theres 2 cures
06:20 PM XXCoder: I remember old test on environmental living, everything stays inside and recycled. They couldnt figure why co2 was so low. then they figured that concerete was grabbing em
06:20 PM gloops: the first is over in days, the slower one can take hundreds of years
06:20 PM XXCoder: then it went off on co2 ouch. ultimately a failure but its nice place on testing some science now
06:21 PM SpeedEvil: Biosphere II
06:22 PM XXCoder: was trying to find it, thanks heh
06:22 PM XXCoder: they discovered that trees cant take in co2 forever there
06:22 PM XXCoder: so it's not best solution for co2
06:23 PM XXCoder: I wonder if could cut down some trees and grow new ones so it would grab even more co2
06:28 PM SpeedEvil: It continues to strengthen after initial cure - I have real doubts about hundreds of years being meaningful. 'cure time grows exponentially with large volume' is flat wrong.
06:28 PM XXCoder: then why is hoover still curing?
06:28 PM SpeedEvil: The dam was cured in small parts, as if it was poured in one the heat released by curing would be utterly unmanagable
06:30 PM SpeedEvil: I'm not sure what you mean unless you mean 'asymptotically approaching a final state.
06:31 PM SpeedEvil: This is not volume related - in a similar thermal environment 'far' from the edge, (>>10cm) so carbonation is not an issue, homogenous concrete will set similarly whatever the size.
06:32 PM SpeedEvil: I think it's a misunderstanding of quotes like 'The Hoover Dam concrete would cure in 125 years by conventional or natural methods. Crews, however, used some innovative engineering methods to hasten the process.'
06:32 PM SpeedEvil: What this means is that if you poured the concrete in small enough batches to not overheat it due to curing heat, it would take 125 years to make the dam.
06:33 PM SpeedEvil: This doesn't say anythng about how long it'd take to cure the concrete.
06:33 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:33 PM SpeedEvil: It's purely a 'you can't put it down very fast if you don't remove the heat'
06:34 PM XXCoder: "The Hoover Dam concrete would cure in 125 years by conventional or natural methods. Crews, however, used some innovative engineering methods to hasten the process."
06:34 PM XXCoder: https://delzottoproducts.com/2017/03/15/long-will-take-concrete-hoover-dam-cure/
06:35 PM SpeedEvil: yes, that's what I was referring to.
06:35 PM SpeedEvil: ^copying from
06:35 PM SpeedEvil: If you let the concrete get too hot, it will cure in an uncontrolled manner in large volume, perhaps cracking it and weakening it.
06:36 PM SpeedEvil: I made a small concrete lantern in a polystyrene mold, and it hit ~80C or so.
06:36 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.mauve.plus.com/Chinese-Lantern.jpg - the base - wirecut polystyrene mold
06:37 PM XXCoder: it would be funny if we delberately did it so it heated a whole lot, put it in isulation
06:37 PM XXCoder: and used it as heat source and power source
06:38 PM SpeedEvil: It's not actually a whole lot of heat - just ~maybe 60kWh/m^3 or so.
06:38 PM SpeedEvil: Concrete is unreasonably expensive to make
06:38 PM XXCoder: yeah doubted it would be worth it
06:38 PM SpeedEvil: Because of all this embodied energy
06:41 PM XXCoder: can do something similiar with alum, could get power from it as reaction, but it takes more energy to metalize alum
06:52 PM XXCoder: I wonder how millable concerete is
06:52 PM Tom_L: diamond cutters
06:52 PM MarcelineVQ: it's fine if you like dust
06:52 PM Tom_L: construction does it all the time
06:53 PM Tom_L: use water to keep the dust down
06:54 PM XXCoder: I doubt I will ever mill any concerete but pretty cool
07:07 PM SpeedEvil: Also, you can 'machine' concrete while it is partially set, with care.
07:07 PM SpeedEvil: In some cases.
07:08 PM SpeedEvil: Once it's set, it's basically as machinable as any other rock
07:08 PM XXCoder: I do want to play with casting stuff but dunno what to make
07:09 PM tiwake: candles
07:10 PM SpeedEvil: You can also do fun decorative casting very rapidly if you start with hot sand and cement and water and silicone molds.
07:11 PM jesseg: I've played around a bit with pouring molten aluminum into styrofoam forms buried in damp sand.
07:11 PM jesseg: getting the aluminum bloody hot is the hard part without a forge or something
07:12 PM jesseg: but what I really want to try is 3D printing wax and do lost wax casting
07:12 PM XXCoder: jess isnt there microwave trick to that heh
07:12 PM XXCoder: theres also lost pla casting
07:12 PM SpeedEvil: acetoxy cure Silicone sealant mixed with damp alkali is a nice cheap alternative.
07:12 PM jesseg: XXCoder, I never heard of it but that would be fun!
07:12 PM Rab: I have read warnings against polishing concrete floors, since it exposes a cross-section of the aggregate (which I suppose wears unevenly and deteriorates). I wonder if machining causes similar issues if the aggregate isn't consistent: some stone being less suitable as a boundary material.
07:12 PM SpeedEvil: Rab: yes
07:13 PM tiwake: Rab: its fine if you coat it with a clear coat like you are supposed to
07:13 PM Rab: tiwake, ahh, hadn't heard about that.
07:13 PM XXCoder: clear coat of what?
07:13 PM tiwake: epoxy
07:13 PM SpeedEvil: If the aggregate is cosmetically and mechanically ok with just a clearcoat
07:14 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/220V-1-2-kg-gold-melting-furnace-electric-smelter-with-1-crucible-and-tong-Digital-Display/32788025321.html Or you could be really lazy about your melting
07:14 PM tiwake: there is special epoxy you are supposed to use for floors to keep it sealed, less wear on the concrete its self, UV protection for the floor colors fading (if any color or acid staining is done...)
07:14 PM tiwake: for concrete
07:15 PM SpeedEvil: (2kg gold of course means only a couple hundred grams of aluminium.
07:15 PM XXCoder: alum have lower melt temp than gold?
07:15 PM SpeedEvil: (but a small aluminium melting furnace from electricity is very much easier.)
07:15 PM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: yes.
07:15 PM XXCoder: interesting
07:15 PM SpeedEvil: ~1200F versus 1200C or something
07:16 PM XXCoder: I really need to setup gthx here heh
07:16 PM XXCoder: I have scripts but never ran it
07:16 PM jesseg: XXCoder, Al melts at 1,221�F, Gold melts at 1,948�F
07:16 PM XXCoder: aliexpress having problems loading. weird
07:17 PM SpeedEvil: Difficulties of furnaces is the square (or maybe cube) of temperature.
07:17 PM SpeedEvil: 600C is pretty easy
07:18 PM XXCoder: alum melts at 600c?
07:18 PM SpeedEvil: 660
07:18 PM XXCoder: interesting
07:18 PM jesseg: Actually a carbon rod arc furnace might be able to do that
07:18 PM Tom_L: http://www.jewelryartistsnetwork.com/index/metals-melting-temperatures/
07:18 PM Tom_L: if you care
07:18 PM XXCoder: I always planned to do pewler also for fun
07:18 PM jesseg: I know a carbon rod arc can melt a firebrick no problem right into liquid glass
07:19 PM SpeedEvil: Stainless is really really annoying.
07:19 PM jesseg: SpeedEvil, I'll second that.
07:19 PM XXCoder: I think pewler is actually low enough for 3d printer to melt lol
07:19 PM XXCoder: but it cant turn into "goo" so it cant really be printed with.
07:19 PM SpeedEvil: jesseg: yeah - but melting in a arc process has major issues as you're trying to control heat loss from the small pot.
07:19 PM SpeedEvil: you can print with wax.
07:19 PM SpeedEvil: So presumably you could print of a sort with liquified metal
07:19 PM XXCoder: wax has temperate where it turns into goo and can be pushed out
07:20 PM XXCoder: metals tend not to
07:20 PM jesseg: SpeedEvil, I imagined the small pot would be inside a firebrick "oven"
07:20 PM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: Many metal alloys also have a range
07:20 PM jesseg: actually some alloys of solder have a sludgy temperature region
07:20 PM XXCoder: heh would be interesting to try to design a printer. but definitely no engineer here :)
07:21 PM jesseg: what I really want to make is an ice printer... for really cold countries.. It could print ice houses and igloos and stuff and mother nature could freeze them
07:22 PM XXCoder: theres no water "goo" stage but I guess its still very doable with very cold nitrogen part cooler
07:23 PM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: there somewhat is - slush
07:23 PM jesseg: the water would be sprayed on liquid and frozen. Like how icecicles are made
07:23 PM jesseg: The nozzle would not even need to touch the object being printed.
07:23 PM XXCoder: speed that dont hold like goo would, it acts more liquidy but yeah
07:23 PM Rab: Vapor deposition?
07:24 PM XXCoder: could cheat with stuff that thickens water
07:24 PM XXCoder: like that powder older people use to prevent choking on liquids
07:24 PM XXCoder: it could still be frozen
07:30 PM XXCoder: oh new christian kull video
07:30 PM XXCoder: he rarely uploads
07:32 PM XXCoder: not very interesting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE86ogmF0Vs also safety
07:33 PM jesseg: I think it's in German
07:33 PM jesseg: he's got an awfully brave finger
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: https://youtu.be/Mn5QjYGko_c?t=34s dis would be dah goo stage
10:50 PM Crom: If you have older folks or are just looking for the best ever can opener. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Commercial-Swing-A-Way-Easy-Crank-Can-Opener-Heavy-Duty/122881449337?hash=item1c9c4e1d79:g:g0AAAOSwqMFZoC8X
10:50 PM Crom: I've had 3 year olds open big cans for me.
10:51 PM Crom: and they're rebuildable as well, kitsd are pretty cheap