#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 21 2017

12:16 AM trentster: Ok, I am trying to get jthornton center hole finding routine to work: https://pastebin.com/w2egGcry — I have added a button to ngcgui and can get it to fire the routine when clicked, just not sure what I need to change within the file to get it to work, as I get errors.
12:18 AM trentster: Namely: if I leave the #1 and #2 etc it says can not probe at zero feedrate, if I change #3 to a number it gives another error, probe start too close to probe end. I am just not sure I understand what is going on in that file. Some help pls.
12:20 AM trentster: I assume all the fields have to be edited right?
12:45 AM anonnumberanon: archivist, are you there?
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: anonnumberanon: ask if yoiu got a problem there are more people her to help you
01:07 AM anonnumberanon: why are these gears made of brass, they are in a servomotor gearbox
01:07 AM anonnumberanon: http://blog-imgs-121.fc2.com/n/a/k/nakayanhobby/NS15.jpg
01:07 AM anonnumberanon: i think it is brass
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: youde be sinterd
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: or even coded
01:12 AM archivist: anonnumberanon, I am now
01:12 AM anonnumberanon: archivist, so this guy is making his own gears and I'm looking at it
01:12 AM anonnumberanon: trying to understand his design
01:13 AM anonnumberanon: why he has yellow gears that are very thin and much thicker ones that are grey
01:13 AM archivist: he has probably lightened them a bit too much
01:13 AM anonnumberanon: maybe the yellow ones are supposed to break to protect the rest
01:14 AM archivist: there are a few points, ease of making use brass
01:14 AM anonnumberanon: the completed gearbox without the top lid on (i think) http://blog-imgs-121.fc2.com/n/a/k/nakayanhobby/NS17.jpg
01:14 AM archivist: brass to steel contact will wear a bit better
01:16 AM archivist: if you work out the torque on all stages then it probably needed another steel gear
01:16 AM archivist: brass is weaker than steel
01:17 AM anonnumberanon: broken: http://blog-imgs-121.fc2.com/n/a/k/nakayanhobby/NS10.jpg
01:19 AM archivist: too much metal removal, leaving it weak
01:20 AM gloops: more spokes
01:20 AM archivist: same reason I did this for someone http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_cnc_Racing_gears/p1010081.jpg
01:20 AM archivist: while lighter I only took circles out
01:21 AM archivist: with original plastic http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_cnc_Racing_gears/p1010080.jpg
01:23 AM xunil: wow, very nice work
01:24 AM xunil: have any shots of the workholding?
01:24 AM xunil: i have a project coming up where i have cause to cut some gears, hoping i can do it on a 3-axis CNC mill with simple end mills
01:25 AM archivist: pics did not turn out so well blurred http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=racing+cnc
01:26 AM archivist: end mills cannot produce the correct form unless you generate
01:29 AM xunil: "unless you generate"?
01:29 AM xunil: fwiw the gears i want to mill would be much larger
01:30 AM archivist: hobbing is one generation method
01:30 AM xunil: i want to build an azimuth/elevation antenna rotator, where each axis would be a servo motor driving a worm gear driving a regular gear
01:31 AM archivist: radio telescope or terrestial
01:31 AM xunil: terrestrial
01:32 AM xunil: for amateur radio satellites
01:32 AM xunil: all low earth orbit
01:33 AM archivist: dont need the same accuracy so it is doable
01:33 AM xunil: yeah accuracy within 5 degrees is probably fine :)
01:34 AM archivist: I did a worm and wheel in http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=webb+clock
01:34 AM xunil: i figure i will use a very coarse thread worm gear and a correspondingly coarse wheel
01:34 AM xunil: wow
01:34 AM xunil: archivist, you did all the machining in this? that's a hell of a project
01:35 AM archivist: that was the clockmaking day job
01:36 AM xunil: you have a cool day job :)
01:36 AM archivist: inside the drum is an epicyclic gearbox
01:36 AM archivist: was, no longer there
01:37 AM archivist: we were not making enough money
01:37 AM xunil: aw, too bad
01:37 AM xunil: still cool
01:37 AM xunil: i am but a humble novice, stuff like this is well beyond my skills
01:38 AM xunil: probably my rotator project is too, but i figure it will be a learning experience if nothing else
01:39 AM gloops: heres a cutter for your collection https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CERATIZET-HIGH-QUALITY-MILLING-PART-SD1205-7822114-50Nm-t20-engineering-CNC-TOOL/152832233229?
01:39 AM archivist: I did a program many years ago to follow a satelite using XY servos
01:40 AM archivist: on the BBC computer
01:40 AM xunil: archivist, the software is another component i haven't figured out yet, but fortunately i have more skills there than in working with metal
01:40 AM xunil: archivist, BBC micro?
01:42 AM archivist: yes
01:42 AM archivist: shows how long ago :)
01:43 AM xunil: that was a great computer :)
01:43 AM archivist: although I did the code and had the servos moving, the feedback was faulty in one servo so never got finished
01:43 AM xunil: my intro to computers was more on the Apple ][ side
01:46 AM xunil: i could also laser cut the worm wheel, but my material choices are limited there
01:46 AM xunil: i don't think i want an acrylic gear, no matter how light the load
01:48 AM archivist: you do need the right gear form else http://www.archivist.info/cnc/wormtest/
01:50 AM archivist: also you can use linuxcnc http://emcar.sourceforge.net/
01:50 AM anonnumberanon: actually no, not gnite
01:51 AM anonnumberanon: not yet
01:56 AM gloops: 2 x 1350 screws, must be parallel with one another and the gantry
01:58 AM gloops: there is no precise measuring with this, im learning, just trial and error and making everything adjustable
01:58 AM archivist: shims under the mounts or filing
01:59 AM gloops: slots, shims, a bit of tippety tapping etc
01:59 AM archivist: bolt at one end and traverse to the end bolt it return and unbolt start adjust
02:00 AM archivist: rinse repeat
02:00 AM gloops: yes thats how ive done the bearings, working on the assumption if the bearings are running free its got to be close
02:01 AM gloops: taking ages longer than expected
02:01 AM Deejay: moin
02:03 AM archivist: more accurate stuff does take longer
02:04 AM gloops: well, ive seen this stage of it will work so at least i know the tedium isnt for nothing, all will be coming to bits again soon lol
02:04 AM gloops: last doubt now is whether 10mm wide belts will be good enough
02:06 AM archivist: some doubts will only show up as failures in the middle of a job :)
02:06 AM archivist: dont ask how I know this
02:07 AM gloops: they will drive it, 20mm would have been better for backlash
02:07 AM gloops: but then 50mm would be better than 20mm, who knows
02:09 AM archivist: I had coupling failures, and stalling due to slide stiffness
02:09 AM gloops: with the square rails?
02:10 AM gloops: it is a bit infuriating, i have had the whole lot rolling like a dream, virtually weightless, - tighten one bolt - back to fairly free
02:11 AM archivist: I had V slides for XY and unbalanced weight on top due to rotaries
02:13 AM gloops: its not as easy as it looks, you buy a kit and think youve just got to throw it on a frame
02:14 AM archivist: we had a user in here with a kit, he failed
02:14 AM archivist: did not have the gumption "to adjust"
02:14 AM gloops: lol, not hard to believe
02:16 AM gloops: would be so bad if you were working on a 2 metre square precise surface
02:16 AM gloops: wouldnt
02:17 AM gloops: the average person hasnt got anything like that, or the instruments to measure these distances or level them
02:17 AM archivist: a machinists level can find the flat without an actual surface
02:18 AM archivist: or even a inclinometer (a damned good one)
02:18 AM gloops: not got one, i have got a couple of good small levels
02:19 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0589.JPG
02:19 AM archivist: sometimes on ebay, avoid if they have the round bubble
02:20 AM archivist: naff https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hilger-Watts-90-Degree-Clinometer-TB103-1/372170609940
02:20 AM gloops: that is a nice level
02:21 AM archivist: the better one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hilger-and-Watts-Clinometer-90-degree-sub-harpoon/282778327110
02:22 AM archivist: not looks like the base may need restoring on the good one, some anteeeeek dealers clean them up badly
02:22 AM archivist: note
02:24 AM archivist: fk ebay has the crap js on again can only see thumbs of 10 items
02:25 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W-STANLEY-PRECISION-LEVEL-BRASS-CRACKLE-GREY-PAINT-CASED/332410201631?
02:26 AM archivist: hmmmm sexeh https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Microptic-Clinometer-Hilger-and-Watts/282777036690
02:27 AM gloops: the finder might be useful for longer runs
02:27 AM archivist: 50 ft maybe
02:27 AM archivist: often they dont focus that close
02:28 AM archivist: I have some surveying levels and a theodolite
02:29 AM archivist: often on ebay cheaper too
02:29 AM gloops: could use a laser to get near
02:29 AM gloops: maybe with a drilled hole
02:31 AM archivist: laser with a mirror
02:31 AM gloops: how does that work?
02:32 AM archivist: similar to autocollimator
02:32 AM archivist: compare outgoing beam with return
02:33 AM gloops: how do you know the mirror is set perfectly true though?
02:33 AM archivist: when you traverse it becomes apparent
02:35 AM archivist: there are some special optics available, but can bodge a bit with cheap bits
02:36 AM archivist: this has two optical squares in it https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Optical-square-Double-Prism-Optical-Square-Builders-square/162774907206
02:38 AM archivist: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-ZEISS-Optical-Square-Cube-1sec-Gage-block-Laser-CMM-Calibration-CERT/332481405000
02:38 AM archivist: effin expensive
02:38 AM archivist: not a square at all https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hilger-Watts-Optical-Square-30-Degree-Polygon-TP221/282771718057
02:39 AM archivist: need the 8 sided to do square
02:40 AM gloops: interesting ill have a closer look at those later
02:40 AM archivist: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hilger-Watts-45-Degree-Optical-Polygon/282771718063
02:40 AM gloops: 1cm in 30m thats 1 in 3000
02:41 AM archivist: I got a 45 degree ex army surplus
02:41 AM gloops: 1mm in 3 metres is good really for wood
02:42 AM archivist: near as dammit until you find that 1mm step at a join
02:43 AM gloops: i was thinking of using g code to do a 3/4/5
02:45 AM gloops: would need scale to be spot on though
02:45 AM archivist: there is a test item square diamond circle stacked, that proves a machine
02:46 AM gloops: first - finish the machine heh
02:46 AM archivist: https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Calibration_and_Squaring_the_Machine
02:47 AM archivist: having the info can help you on the way :)... before you weld yourself into a corner
02:50 AM trentster: I am trying to get a hole center finding routine to work, I literally want something simple where I use the endmill as the probe, the same way as I probe for auto z height. I am using the p.hole.ngc file supplied by jthornton and was wondering if I need to supply it with variables before I probe.
02:51 AM gloops: im working mainly on a square frame, what ive found with sbr bearings - you can pull the gantry square, as i could with the skate bearings
02:51 AM gloops: CANNOT pull the gantry
02:52 AM gloops: only a few mm each way till the bearings bind, so the gantry must be sitting square from the start - cost some time
02:53 AM gloops: which is a good sign, gantry must be stiff, bearings must be accurate
02:54 AM archivist: trentster, you will snap an endmill doing that
02:56 AM trentster: archivist: I thought if I went slowly it would work, I have a whole lot of waterjet alu plates for a new CNC build that I just got back and I need to cut countersinks for certain bolt holes in order to use them. Maybe there is another way to locate the hole, but I saw some dude on youtube doing center finding with an endmill and linuxcnc.
02:59 AM archivist: many ways of hole location, camera, there are wiggler things, or optical hole finders or contact probes
03:00 AM archivist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Centre-Finder-or-Wiggler-Set-Work-Edge-Centre-Finding-Machine-lsthe-ML7-427707/322664426554
03:00 AM trentster: none of which I own on my current DIY CNC…
03:00 AM archivist: that item is very cheap
03:00 AM trentster: except the wiggler which I have but it does not work on high speed spindels only on mill spindles.
03:01 AM archivist: I use a point in the collet and eye it up
03:03 AM trentster: good lord, you must have some eyes on you sir.
03:04 AM archivist: depends how accurate you want to be too
03:05 AM archivist: for best I use this sort of idea https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-CO-AX-INDICATOR-CENTRE-FINDER-INDICATOR-METRIC-MEASURING-ENGINEERING/351766084748
03:06 AM archivist: this is what I mean by point http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1632.JPG
03:06 AM trentster: aaah, yeah thats a lovely piece of kit(which I wish I owned)
03:06 AM archivist: needed to get the cutter on centreline
03:10 AM trentster: I was hoping on getting the probing working, even if I have to use a broken endmill to do it to get the center, then swap it out for another endmill once its located.
03:11 AM archivist: probing uses a contact
03:11 AM trentster: I am so close I just need a tiny bit of help on the last mile, getting the routine to work. The Gcode is a bit beyond me and I am not sure if I need to pass it variables or something and create a custom GUI tab for it…?
03:12 AM trentster: what do you think?
03:12 AM trentster: https://pastebin.com/w2egGcry
03:12 AM archivist: it uses a contact probe not an endmill
03:18 AM archivist: so I think you have misunderstood how that is used
03:18 AM Contract_Pilot: Sup trying this from iPad
03:21 AM archivist: I bet you cannot keep the connection live :)
03:24 AM trentster: archivist: what is the diff, they both just send a open or close signal on a pin…right?
03:24 AM trentster: so in essence they are identical
03:25 AM archivist: not really an endmill snaps when it hits
03:26 AM archivist: the contact probe has a spring
03:32 AM trentster: correct, but not if you go slow enough.
03:33 AM trentster: and you can use an already broken endmill..no? - just in case.
03:34 AM archivist: you also have to isolate the endmill or work from the machine
03:39 AM trentster: I'm not with you…work from the machine?
03:40 AM trentster: do you mean I could damage the spindle?
03:41 AM archivist: the electrical connection
03:42 AM archivist: yes spindle bearings can be damaged by putting electrical currents through them
03:46 AM trentster: really? 6-12V can damage them…I didnt know that.
03:52 AM Contract_Pilot: Ended up total ok and on the floor evening of surg
03:54 AM Contract_Pilot: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/dnvzNflP/1513850025.JPG
03:54 AM Contract_Pilot: Picked up part of the bathroom cab on the way down
03:58 AM Contract_Pilot: If cloud is not to stable no links etc
03:58 AM Contract_Pilot: Old I pad 2
04:00 AM archivist: trentster, http://www.skf.com/cn/en/products/bearings-units-housings/roller-bearings/principles/troubleshooting/bearing-failures-and-their-causes/bearing-damage/passage-of-electric-current/index.html
04:04 AM trentster: you are a smart man, I always learn something new when I chat to you…..very interesting.
04:05 AM archivist: http://www.linearmotiontips.com/how-bearings-fail-a-closer-look-at-electric-current-damage/
04:11 AM Contract_Pilot: My message working
04:12 AM archivist: tap tap one two one two
04:17 AM Contract_Pilot: I hurt
04:18 AM Contract_Pilot: Foot kinda hurts bit more than the hernia surg site
04:34 AM gloops: you can guarantee just when youre finally getting somewhere some irritation from the world outside the garage interferes
04:35 AM archivist: yup, warmish day cannot start replacing a window, miss daisy wants moving about again
04:38 AM jthornton: morning
04:38 AM gloops: see theres been a vehicle terror attack in aus
04:38 AM gloops: 15 mowed down
04:46 AM gloops: The Sun‏Verified account @TheSun
04:46 AM gloops: 6m6 minutes ago
04:46 AM gloops: Frankfurt Christmas market evacuated as hundreds of shoppers told to get out over suspicious package
04:51 AM archivist: impossible to weed out all the bad people
04:53 AM XXCoder: coldest night so far
04:53 AM XXCoder: not surpising as tomorrow is longest night!
04:54 AM archivist: 9.5 deg c outside this morning
04:55 AM XXCoder: archivist: interesting article
04:55 AM archivist: which one
04:55 AM XXCoder: -2c here or 28f
04:55 AM XXCoder: bearing
04:55 AM XXCoder: and current
04:55 AM archivist: bodgers do abuse their bearings
04:56 AM archivist: then will moan, it has worn out!
04:56 AM jthornton: 40F here but saturday night down to 27F
05:51 AM Tom_L: 46�F
06:40 AM archivist: a bit more than the 20 quid I paid for one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162796237279
06:40 AM XXCoder: lol
06:50 AM jthornton: I can't even figure out what it does lol
06:51 AM jthornton: Tom_L: hows the build coming along?
06:51 AM archivist: just a micrometer that floats so more accurate
06:53 AM archivist: they can measure down to a few microns
06:54 AM jthornton: nice
06:55 AM archivist: like http://www.archivist.info/cnc/bench_micrometer/
06:55 AM archivist: I need to take pics and update with the latest I got
06:56 AM archivist: often incomplete, missing balls or the fudicial indicator
07:00 AM jthornton: so the tube shaped part is an indicator of some sort?
07:01 AM archivist: you can see a pointer you align with the static, it then has the right pressure
07:01 AM jthornton: ah understand now
07:19 AM gloops: getting there! this router is gonna float like a butterfly and sting like a charging rhino!
07:20 AM gloops: acute force on the z plate now only bends the main frame
09:44 AM djdelorie_ is now known as djdelorie
10:22 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3kNf5JMds
10:25 AM _methods: jthornton: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/a-ufo-chicken-spaceship-coop-that-is-out-of-this-world.73235/
10:31 AM roycroft: happy solstice!
10:32 AM gloops: yes 4 minutes ago
10:33 AM * roycroft will be enjoying the additional daylight
10:33 AM * jym HIGH FIVE'S _methods... nice find!
10:33 AM gloops: couple of thousand years ago a lot of sacrificial blood would be flowing right now
10:33 AM _methods: space chickens
10:33 AM roycroft: we have survived longest night once again!
10:34 AM jym: gloops: What makes you think it's not?
10:34 AM gloops: well yeah, maybe it still is
10:34 AM roycroft: it will still be another month before i'm no longer leaving for work in the dark and getting home in the dark
10:37 AM jym: _methods: Comfy Space Chickens =)
10:38 AM _methods: always
10:38 AM _methods: they have space weapons so yeah
10:38 AM _methods: no eat the space chickens
10:39 AM jym: _methods: hahaha, true enough!
10:39 AM MarcelineVQ: skunkworks: very cool
10:39 AM JT-Shop: _methods: yea I saw that before, doesn't look practical at all
10:41 AM _methods: yeah cleaning looks like it might get uncomfortable
10:41 AM _methods: i guess if you like crawling around in chickeshit
10:41 AM JT-Shop: gloops: got my first egg yesterday
10:42 AM _methods: maybe they just lift the top off and clean it that way
10:42 AM gloops: thats good going JT - 18 weeks
10:42 AM JT-Shop: to the day :)
10:42 AM JT-Shop: just need 3 more by Saturday...
10:43 AM gloops: should get 1 a day now from RIR - or 2 if you split the lighting
10:43 AM JT-Shop: split the lighting?
10:44 AM gloops: yeah, i dont think you would do that, with the battery hens they do so many hours light on, so many off, fools the chickens into thinking 2 days have passed
10:45 AM JT-Shop: ah, no I'm just adding extra light in the wee morning hours so their day is longer than 12 hours
10:47 AM gloops: ive got a pic somewhere of what a rhode island cock did to my leg
10:47 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4veh19p239U
11:03 AM archivist: solid lump https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292378165536
11:07 AM Connor: jdh: Ordered that VFD that supports modbus.. Not because it supports it.. but because it's 1p/3p input.. :)
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:25 AM gloops: rhode island red cockerel strike heh - http://picpaste.com/leg_crop-8gZ1ziU7.jpg
11:27 AM JT-Shop: double tapped your leg ouch
11:30 AM gloops: only one hit
11:30 AM skunkworks: claws
11:31 AM gloops: that makes your eyes water
11:31 AM gregcnc: was he soup at lunch?
11:31 AM gloops: no, but if he'd been in range of my boot he'd have been in orbit lol
12:38 PM andypugh: Any suggestions where I should look for a QC30 blank arbor?
12:51 PM Loetmichel is now known as Caustic_soda
12:51 PM Caustic_soda is now known as Loetmichel
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
12:53 PM Tom_L: andypugh, http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Blank-End-Arbors
12:54 PM andypugh: They don’t seem to do QC (or, for that matter, BT, INT or ISO)
12:54 PM Tom_L: oh
12:56 PM Tom_L: comin up pretty empty on that one
12:56 PM andypugh: Yes, me too.
12:57 PM andypugh: I need thae 1/2 UNC thread that QC uses. I have found a few things that would almost do, but with M12 thread.
01:11 PM Simonious: I'm finding linuxCNC is off a fraction of an inch in both axis, I'd like to do a simple ratio calculation and enter a new value. This is the right way, right?
01:17 PM cradek: it could work, but ideally you'd understand the source of the problem
01:17 PM cradek: andypugh: I've cut off/turned down QC30->JT arbors before
01:18 PM cradek: andypugh: I did that for a renishaw
01:21 PM cradek: andypugh: or maybe it was for a shell mill: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kennametal-NMTB30-QC30-1-2-Shell-Mill-Arbor-Quick-Change-30-Bridgeport/372156915046
01:23 PM cradek: wait a sec - QC doesn't actually use the drawbar thread - so I don't understand what you've got
01:36 PM cradek: what on earth: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Erickson-QC-30-NMTB-Sensitive-Boring-Facing-Head-Milling-Machine-Tool-Machinist/282764416067
01:36 PM cradek: that seems a little ... big
01:38 PM pcw_mesa: the part with the dials must not spin
01:39 PM cradek: yeah it must hang from the quill and be kept from turning somehow
01:39 PM cradek: like a huge mutant tapping head
01:39 PM pcw_mesa: maybe that rod on the left holds it
01:40 PM pcw_mesa: that is very weird
02:01 PM andypugh: D’Andrea make similar things
02:03 PM andypugh: There is one here with a servo in place of the handle: http://www.dandrea.com/en/contents.asp?c=10&s=32
02:09 PM andypugh: As for QC etc, I really need NMTB30, but nobody is using that designation on eBay
02:10 PM andypugh: It is possible that my problem is solved by the eBay purchase that just arrived. (I only bought it this afternoon, but the vendor was local) A pair of DA collet chucks.
02:11 PM gloops: Simonious are you editing the INI file?
02:16 PM cradek: andypugh: I think QC might not always have any drawbar/knob thread at all
02:17 PM cradek: I see a zillion hits for NMTB30 (that clearly aren't QC compatible)
02:20 PM jesseg: Hrm, just got my first real lathe... What sort of level should I use? Do I need to get one of those super accurate long-bubble level units?
02:21 PM cradek: shars makes a lot of varieties you could cut
02:22 PM _methods: what kind of lathe?
02:22 PM _methods: normally you'd use a machinists level but they are pretty spendy
02:25 PM gloops: how come we arent levelling with gps yet
02:26 PM jesseg: _methods, it's a 1960's 15x42 Hydroshift. I was looking at machinists levels on ebay, and the non-chinese ones are quite expensive :P
02:27 PM _methods: yeah i'm sure you can get away with using a normal level though
02:27 PM _methods: i've set plenty of manual lathes that size and never even leveled them lol
02:28 PM _methods: unless you're trying to hold tenths or something on it i doubt you'll have an issue
02:28 PM gloops: big bubble you want
02:28 PM jesseg: _methods, LOL yeah... and I thought about just putting it on wooden blocks so the tailstock end is on a center block so it's self leveling :P
02:28 PM jesseg: there's hardly any weight on the tailstock end compared to the headstock end
02:29 PM andypugh: I bought a level to level my lathe. One day I will.
02:29 PM gregcnc: all you really need to do is adjust the feet so it turns without a taper
02:29 PM _methods: yeah i wouldn't even sweat it unless i was having problems holding tolerance
02:29 PM gregcnc: or minimal taper
02:29 PM andypugh: Well, my eBay purchase was not what I wanted at all. Pity.
02:30 PM andypugh: See if you can guess what these really are: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192396961124
02:30 PM gloops: there is a good tutorial on levelling a lathe without a level on the net
02:31 PM jesseg: _methods, I was under the impression that having the lathe not leveled could, over time, twist the ways badly and permanently
02:31 PM _methods: it can
02:31 PM gregcnc: tap holders?
02:31 PM gloops: like which way to move it according to the taper
02:31 PM andypugh: gregcnc: Indeed, floating tap holders.
02:32 PM andypugh: Once given a bit of a knock they float rather nicely. And came with a set of collets too.
02:32 PM andypugh: A bargain for £18, and no good to me at all.
02:34 PM gloops: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/leveling-without-precision-level-130345/
02:34 PM jesseg: Hmm, here's a new Shars 8" machinists level for about $80 delivered. Is shars OK?
02:40 PM andypugh: The manual for my lathe specifically recmmends one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253318539445
02:41 PM jesseg: Oh, another question.. I'm 6' tall and the lathe just felt a little low sitting on the floor, so when we took it off the 3" pipe rollers used for moving it in, we set it on 4x6" blocks of wood... Is there any reason I shouldn't just put 1/4" metal plates on top of the wood and leave it on the wood blocks?
02:41 PM jesseg: andypugh, that is a nice level :D
02:42 PM andypugh: jesseg: I would think that wood would move as the climate changed
02:42 PM andypugh: Is this the level you were looking at? http://www.shars.com/8-master-precisions-level
02:42 PM jesseg: andypugh, yeah that looks likeit
02:43 PM jesseg: yeah same price too
02:43 PM andypugh: It has an adjuster. So it can’t really not work.
02:43 PM jesseg: I wonder if it comes adjusted or if I'll have to be constantly adjusting it :P
02:43 PM andypugh: (You calibrate a spirit level on any vaguely flat surface. If it reads the same pointing in each direction, then it’s true.
02:44 PM jesseg: yeah, I'm just worried a cheaply constructed unit would always be drifting calibration on me
02:44 PM jym: What andypugh said
02:45 PM andypugh: it only needs to hold calibration for 10 minutes while you level the lathe.
02:45 PM jesseg: well is shars a decent outfit?
02:45 PM _methods: kinda like harbor freight for machinists
02:46 PM _methods: the stuff works, but not necessarily the best quality
02:46 PM andypugh: I live in the UK, so I have no idea.
02:46 PM _methods: meaning i have a bunch of shars stuff
02:46 PM _methods: lol
02:46 PM gloops: probably not but you arent going to buy a quality one lol
02:46 PM andypugh: I can’t really see how it can fail to do the job.
02:47 PM jesseg: yeah as long as the adjuster is spring tensioned so it doesn't walk every time I pick it up or it clicks against a surface when I set it down.
02:48 PM andypugh: You could buy this one instead, but I don’t think it would make the lathe any more accurate : https://www.ebay.com/itm/E-D-A-IBLM-292-8-Precision-Inspection-Block-Level-w-Micrometer/322131284820?hash=item4b00855354:g:B0YAAOSwyjJZwWvK
02:48 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-12-INCH-ENGINEERS-LEVEL-J-RABONE-SONS/253014419721?
02:49 PM gloops: 30 quid, but is the old decent one any more accurate than the new budget one?
02:49 PM andypugh: I doubt it
02:49 PM gloops: plus the glass is foggy
02:49 PM andypugh: it needs a new buble as the one in it is cracked
02:50 PM andypugh: (quote)
02:51 PM gloops: theyre cheap enough though
02:51 PM andypugh: Anyway, if he is looking at Shars then he is probably in the US, so UK eBay is no help.
02:52 PM jesseg: andypugh, lol
02:52 PM jesseg: that's a cute level with a large price :P
02:53 PM andypugh: I think you are falling into my trap. Deciding that you want a really nice level just because they are really nice.
02:53 PM jesseg: the vintage one looks rather thrashed.. and I'm in USA
02:53 PM jym: DIY CNC Laser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi57H_X-AcY
02:53 PM gloops: only been used for snooker tables
02:53 PM cradek: I think mine is a shars (but years old) and it's somewhere on the fine-nice continuum
02:54 PM gloops: i doubt levelling snooker tables ever reaches a high degree of precision
02:54 PM gloops: couple of beer mats under the legs here and there
02:54 PM cradek: ha
02:55 PM cradek: bunched up sugar packets
02:56 PM andypugh: gloops: You are thinking of pool tables
02:56 PM andypugh: Nooker tables are made of three separate pieces of slate, they need some rather careful setup.
02:57 PM gloops: i once helped move some snooker tables when i was about 20, the slates are HEAVY
02:58 PM gloops: i think these had 4 slates, 4 men to a slate wasnt enough really
03:00 PM roycroft: kind of like moving a big surface plate
03:01 PM gloops: club closed down and a local builder bought the tables thinking he was going to make a killing on them
03:03 PM jesseg: Thanks guys!
03:05 PM roycroft: as in killing his movers?
03:07 PM jesseg: LOL
03:09 PM Connor: So, question guys.. Purchased the VFD for my Bridgeport. Also purchased the Remote Panel Keyboard. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074T8LTBS
03:10 PM Connor: Trying to figure out if I want to use *IT* on the mill for Run/Stop and speed.. or build one with better push buttons, a fwd/rev switch and a pots and maybe a add-on RPM module...
03:10 PM gloops: selling them for a profit roy
03:11 PM jesseg: Connor, you absolutely want to build your own panel with nice buttons. Then just wire your high quality switches into the PCB or whatever.
03:12 PM Connor: I really don't like the membrane buttons.. and pushing a button for fwd/rev just isn't the same.
03:12 PM jesseg: Connor, I got one of those Chinese VFDs and it works fine, but trying to press and hold those little membrane buttons while I'm in machining mode is really annoying. A nice big button for start and stop would be so much nicer :D
03:14 PM jesseg: Frankly I'd like to just use my mill's forward/reverse switch... Since the cost of the VFD is only $118 delivered, I'm considering actually trying just that.. Turn on the VFD then use the mill's switch, see if it a) works, b) faults, c) blows up
03:14 PM Connor: Your not suppose to do that..
03:14 PM jesseg: but ultimately, Lord willing I'll just set up a small 3 phase diesel generator LOL..
03:15 PM roycroft: it might blow up
03:15 PM roycroft: it well could blow up, actually
03:15 PM roycroft: there should be no interruption of power between the vfd output and the load
03:15 PM jesseg: Connor, I know you're not supposed to. But. It's a $118 experiment.
03:15 PM Connor: Yea. I'm NOT going to do that. :)
03:15 PM Connor: Don't have the $118 to blow..
03:16 PM jesseg: well I don't either... but I really don't see why it would hurt anything :P
03:16 PM roycroft: however, you should be able to easily wire the forward/reverse switch on the mill into the vfd
03:16 PM Connor: What about speed indication? My BP has a 3600 RPM motor, which is 2X faster than standard..
03:16 PM jesseg: but I realize it might, and won't blame anyone else
03:16 PM jesseg: Connor, what specifically about speed indication?
03:17 PM Connor: Are you using anything to output RPM?
03:17 PM Connor: The remote panel is nice, but, it'll show the motor RPM or the Freq, which isn't very helpful for spindle RPM.
03:17 PM jesseg: Connor, oh, I think my FVD displays RPM on its red LED readout. But I just have it set to 60hz and use my mill's variator belt head to set the speed so I don't even look at the RPM reading.
03:17 PM roycroft: i'm building a router table and am using an 80mm spindle for it
03:18 PM roycroft: i'm running it off a huanyang vfd
03:18 PM roycroft: i'll use a remote panel for it, and i think that's fine for the application
03:18 PM roycroft: the vfd can display spindle rpm if you program the number of poles and max frequency properly
03:19 PM roycroft: but it's a direct drive spindle, so motor speed = spindle speed
03:19 PM Connor: Only if your doing direct drive.. still planned on using pulleys and backgear..
03:20 PM Connor: with the speed control to allow for 1/2 speed to get the original range back.. I.E. limit it between 30 and 60hz. which would be between .5 and 1x speed.
03:20 PM roycroft: it might be possible to compensate the configuration parameters on the vfd to compensate for the pully ratio
03:21 PM roycroft: a completely separate tachometer would be a better idea though
03:21 PM Connor: Maybe I'll just add something like this.. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075HD2872
03:21 PM roycroft: like that :)
03:21 PM gloops: no encoder on the spindle?
03:22 PM Connor: No on a manual bridgeport...
03:22 PM roycroft: and if your spindle is belt driven it would have the added benefit of telling you when the belt has broken
03:22 PM Connor: ROFL, as if the spindle not turning and the motor making noise wasn't enough indication? :)
03:23 PM roycroft: because standing in front of the mill and staring at the not moving spindle might not be enough clue
03:23 PM gloops: that should give you a basic readout Connor
03:26 PM gloops: i dallied with the idea with the idea of using an abs sensor off a car, the ones that read the ridges on the hub
03:26 PM gloops: but i havent got a halfshaft laying around, or a sensor, and i dont know anything about electronics
03:31 PM Connor: I'll have to figure out how to add the magnet to the spindle somewhere for it to pickup the RPM
03:44 PM Connor: Hmm.. looks like easiest approach might be to drill a hole in the very top of the spindle pulley and epoxy the magnet in it.. and mount the sensor in the top of the housing..
03:45 PM roycroft: that's commonly done
03:48 PM jesseg: actually guys just file a notch
03:48 PM andypugh: Connor: Useful info here: https://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
03:49 PM jesseg: if you slightly magnetize the core of your pickup coil, it will happily detect any passing anomaly in a nearby iron surface
03:49 PM jesseg: it's called variable reluctance
03:49 PM jesseg: or if you have a gear or a hex nut that is rotating, just put your sensor by that
03:50 PM jesseg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor
03:50 PM jesseg: that kind of sensor is used all the time on cars to detect engine rotation to time the injection and spark
03:50 PM Connor: The module is stupid.. it's expecting 1 signal per RPM. So, using it on a gear would require it to divide by teeth count.
03:50 PM jesseg: Connor, LOL oh roger that.
03:50 PM gloops: yes thats the ones jesseg
03:51 PM jesseg: Connor, so you're just trying to come up with a simple RPM readout?
03:51 PM Connor: Yea.
03:51 PM jesseg: you temp me sorely.. that would be a really fun simple project for me to build.
03:52 PM Connor: I think drill a hole in top flange of the spindle pulley maybe 3/4" deep and epoxy magnet might work.
03:52 PM Connor: no 3/4" deep.. 3/4 the way down.. just so the magnet does get slung out at high speed.
03:52 PM andypugh: As always, the answer is probably an Arduino and some sort of off-the-shelf add-on
03:52 PM jesseg: I'm surprised there isn't a really cheap product available that you can program for tooth count
03:53 PM Connor: Does the Bull Gear not move up and down depending on if your in back gear or not ?
03:53 PM Connor: heck, the pulley may too.. I don't know..
03:53 PM Connor: I'll have to go and look at it.
03:53 PM andypugh: I am surprised how expensive these are! https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12923
03:54 PM andypugh: I have two, from the kickstarter.
03:55 PM XXCoder: andypugh: eink ones is quite expensive also
03:55 PM XXCoder: and tiny
03:55 PM Connor: I guess I could also make some sort of attachment that slips over the draw bar...
03:55 PM gloops: running machine
03:56 PM gloops: scrap running machine off ebay
03:56 PM gloops: got digital readout, sensors etc
03:59 PM andypugh: Arduino and then use PWM into an analogue voltmeter. Probabaly a more useful display than digital.
04:06 PM andypugh: There is even one here that says “RPM” http://www.electro-meters.com/gossen/vpq_240_series/
04:19 PM Deejay: gn8
04:57 PM jesseg: oh lol
04:58 PM jesseg: Connor, gloops which one of you was trying to find an RPM gauge? Just get an automotive RPM gauge like for a 6 cylinder truck or car and connect it to a pickup that you put near a hex nut LOL
04:59 PM gloops: it was Connor
04:59 PM jesseg: oh ok
04:59 PM jesseg: as a matter of fact, I think many tachs can be set for the number of cylinders, and the ones for diesels are set to run off of the starter gear teeth because diesels don't have ignition systems
05:01 PM jesseg: Hrm, they are like $150 range, kind of expensive..
05:02 PM jesseg: Connor, what kind of display is suitable? Is a backlit LCD alphanumeric display acceptable?
05:02 PM Connor: Just using a Red LED one.
05:02 PM Connor: Already ordered it..
05:03 PM jesseg: oh ok got it all solved, great :D
05:03 PM Connor: Well. 1/2 solved.. the other part is finding a place to mount the sensor and magnet..
05:04 PM jesseg: Ahhhh
05:06 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Digital-LED-Tachometer-RPM-Speed-Meter-Hall-Proximity-Switch-Sensor-NPN-Kit/322520636264?
05:06 PM gloops: only £6 for the kit
05:08 PM gloops: i think ill put one on my lawnmower
05:08 PM Connor: Yea.. That's basically what I got..
05:09 PM jesseg: that's awful cute :P
05:16 PM gloops: i wonder if they do similar linear travel readouts
05:18 PM gloops: no..https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOP-3AXIS-DIGITAL-READOUT-DRO-DISPLAY-CONSOLE-3-LINEAR-SCALE-TRAVEL-MILL-LATHE/311413967135?
05:20 PM Loetmichel: re to home... MAAAN that was due.. working 8AM to midnight without a break... i can feel that i'm not 20 any more. :-(
05:27 PM _methods is now known as methods_
05:29 PM methods_ is now known as ogzizgay
05:30 PM ogzizgay is now known as methods_
11:03 PM Connor: What's the point of Spindle Jog on a manual Mill? I've seen a few VFD conversions and some have a FWD and REV jog...