#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 16 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:05 AM dave__ is now known as gloops
12:23 AM gloops: my next 2 days is mainly about drilling
12:26 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Frame_Weld1.jpg
12:26 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Column_Supports1.jpg
12:29 AM gloops: done well there Tom, i can see from the pics the base hasnt twisted
12:30 AM Tom_L: it's pretty flat
12:30 AM Tom_L: i tried to be careful with it
12:47 AM IchGucksLive: hi
12:48 AM gloops: wonder how these pump coolant https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300-L-H-Mini-Submersible-Water-Pump-for-Aquarium-Small-Water-Feature-UK-Stock/222657241524?
12:48 AM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: heavy mashine build
12:48 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: there are 240V
12:48 AM IchGucksLive: i got them on the concrete saw
12:49 AM IchGucksLive: it takes a massive load of dirt warer
12:49 AM IchGucksLive: water
12:50 AM gloops: those little pond pumps Ichs?
12:50 AM gloops: might get one of those then
12:50 AM IchGucksLive: not that little i got
12:51 AM Tom_L: hopefully it will cut good
12:52 AM gloops: i guess with milling a lot is down to the bearings
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: Aquaristik got alot
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: filters
12:53 AM IchGucksLive: boxes for the chips
12:53 AM IchGucksLive: all around 10 uros
12:53 AM gloops: yeah pond pumps take some dirt, not so much dust though
12:53 AM gloops: like stone dust
12:53 AM IchGucksLive: chipfilter https://www.hornbach.de/shop/Filtereinsatz-fuer-Aussenfilter-2226-2228/5019695/artikel.html
12:54 AM gloops: do you do any stone engraving Ichs?
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: indeed i did with the glas/keramic bid
12:55 AM gloops: advisable on a wood router - or build a machine just for stone - i think the dust would kill ballscrews pretty quick
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: This is the Pump i use https://www.hornbach.de/shop/Pumpenkopf-JBL-ProCristal-i30/6122606/artikel.html
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: the wood doest does near the same
12:57 AM gloops: ill get one of those rigged up
12:57 AM gloops: not for stone, just want to try it with aluminium
12:58 AM gloops: small pond pump, chip filter, some aquarium air pipe - coolant systen
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: alu is best to use sharp dry up to 6mm
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: and todorial milling of cause
01:02 AM gloops: wont it get hot?
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: bo
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: no
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: my fingers wont press the keys this morning
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: getting to old for the keyboard
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: did you see my HArdwood mill on the crap cnc
01:04 AM gloops: no dont think so Ichs
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: i grap the bit after the real hard path
01:04 AM gloops: hmm interesting
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdvROAlCMMQ
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: get to theend
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: where i grab the bit with finger
01:07 AM gloops: oh yeah, i did watch that
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: under that hard condicion i can only cut 700mm/min
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: but this is ok
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: as we got time
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: the bit stays alive that is the main part
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: or must
01:10 AM gloops: well a bit of coolant on ally wouldnt hurt
01:10 AM Tom_L: IchGucksLive did you make that plate or buy it?
01:11 AM Tom_L: in the video
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: Plate?
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: the table
01:13 AM Tom_L: yeah the table
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: made self
01:13 AM Tom_L: what size holes?
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: Raw material from polen 10Euros
01:14 AM Tom_L: and bolts
01:14 AM Tom_L: 8mm?
01:14 AM Tom_L: 6mm?
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: its M6/M8 25mm square
01:14 AM Tom_L: ok that's about what i'm gonna do i think
01:14 AM Tom_L: mine is about 9 x 30" though
01:18 AM IchGucksLive: Did one see a er11 clamp with a 8mm shaft
01:18 AM IchGucksLive: they most got it the other way D16 with 8mm hole
01:19 AM IchGucksLive: this looses 20mm on workspace
01:36 AM IchGucksLive: ok c8 er11a is the only option i got
01:43 AM IchGucksLive: off ;-)
02:05 AM Deejay: moin
02:09 AM gloops: well off to collect some ally, another 50lbs going on the gantry
02:11 AM gloops: all he ever does is talk about this machine, they say, but where is it? where is the machine?
02:11 AM gloops: rest assured, it is coming, it is coming!!!
03:45 AM Stelios: Hello there. I would really need your help once more. I am a new LCNC user with this setup:
03:45 AM Stelios: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-MACH3-CNC-Breakout-Board-Interface-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver/121924104910?epid=1544221702&hash=item1c633e32ce:g:jXsAAOSwDNdVjj88
03:45 AM Stelios: https://s18.postimg.org/ya1kf5wo9/20160827_213305.jpg
03:46 AM Stelios: i am trying to config LCNC but when i finish something isnt right.The sound of the motors and the speed isn correct
03:46 AM Stelios: Does any1 beed familier with this setup?
04:10 AM gloops: yes popular board
04:10 AM gloops: speed isnt correct?
04:10 AM archivist: have you wired the motors correctly
04:17 AM gloops: cant see the dipswitch settings - maybe amps low
04:18 AM gloops: psu setting - volts low?
04:23 AM Wolf__: step setting?
04:23 AM archivist: without some reply and sensible feedback.....
04:24 AM archivist: more important will it rain here today, will I get wet if I change the kitchen window
04:24 AM gloops: probably working on it
04:24 AM gloops: archivist get it ripped out
04:24 AM archivist: hehe
04:24 AM gloops: theres no such thing as bad weather - only bad clothing
04:25 AM archivist: I dont have good clothing
04:25 AM archivist: I did one yesterday
04:25 AM gloops: you picked the right time of year lol
04:26 AM archivist: I used a certain leverage to get them when I could
04:28 AM gloops: if its a wooden frame i usually strip the middle framework out, then cut into the sides near the bottom, at an upward angle, that allows the top of the side to be released - chisel in between the brickwork, then a crow bar, boooshter
04:29 AM gloops: or if i want to take extra care, cut a complete noggin out with saw and chisel, then crow bar
04:29 AM archivist: I have to cut all 5 bars, as all built into brickwork
04:29 AM gloops: ahh lugged in
04:30 AM archivist: and the worst lintels you can imagine for 1960
04:30 AM gloops: probably better cutting a noggin out in the middle to allow the frames to be drawn to the centre, some of those heavy lugged frames take some work to get out
04:31 AM gloops: reciprocating saw
04:32 AM archivist: I have a couple of those saws, the battery one did wonders yesterday
04:32 AM archivist: the aldi/lidl one for gardening
04:34 AM gloops: have had some of the old frames where they were lugged in 8 inch, and also 5 inch nails knocked into the brick joints to pin them in, sawing and chiselling away for ages
04:37 AM archivist: got the glass out ready, was about to get tools and it is raining
04:37 AM archivist: forecast is only light stuff though
04:38 AM gloops: nothing here yet
04:40 AM archivist: watching the chart this morning there is a lump of cloud south of you right over here
04:41 AM archivist: as much as you can tell with the crappy BBC weather chart these days
04:42 AM jthornton: morning
04:55 AM XXCoder: hey all
04:55 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
04:57 AM jthornton: what's up this morning?
04:57 AM XXCoder: not much just got home from work
04:58 AM XXCoder: so much overtime heh
04:58 AM jthornton: Friday night is overtime?
04:58 AM XXCoder: yeah 40/4
04:59 AM jthornton: ah 10 hour shifts
04:59 AM XXCoder: yeah
04:59 AM XXCoder: normally biz goes slow on nov-jan
04:59 AM XXCoder: but its really hopping now...
05:00 AM XXCoder: aand people tend to take 2 week vacations lol
05:15 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/nestbox/
05:16 AM jthornton: gotta get the roll out nest box installed today, going to rain tomorrow
05:16 AM XXCoder: ah feeder
05:16 AM XXCoder: or nest
05:17 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/feeder/feeder-05.jpg
05:17 AM XXCoder: ya
05:17 AM jthornton: I have to move the feeder over to the left to make room for the nest box
05:37 AM XXCoder: check this out jthornton https://youtu.be/oUE3zWnZbTo
05:43 AM MarcelineVQ: had an idea for a wall-lightswitch replacement that makes the light come on when you open the door, and off when you shut the door, unless the switch is toggled in which case it's just on as usual. Or maybe a 3 position switch, off, auto, on.
05:44 AM jthornton: I have a few lights that have motion detectors in them and when you open the door to the laundry room the light comes on
05:44 AM MarcelineVQ: I'm in and out of my little work area so often that such a thing would be useful, though less useful than just fun to have because led lamps don't cost all that much to leave on for the day
05:45 AM MarcelineVQ: motion detectors? interesting option. I was thinking of a magnet on the door hehe
05:46 AM XXCoder: is room cnc room?
05:46 AM MarcelineVQ: distance sensor is an option if it's mounted right at the frametop too I guess, trying to avoid false toggles from walking in and out though
05:46 AM jthornton: you see motion detection switches a lot in public bathrooms in C stores
05:46 AM XXCoder: motion based light isnt good idea for cnc room, reach for tool and darkness
05:47 AM MarcelineVQ: It'll have a machine in it, but it's not a dedicated machine area. if a person is spending time in the room they'll turn the switch to on, it's more for when I want to duck in a grab a tool
05:47 AM XXCoder: motion sensor type with switch bypass to stay on
05:48 AM jthornton: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-switch-2-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-OPS2H-WH/203202128
05:48 AM MarcelineVQ: Which is why I'm leaning towards maghent and reed at the frame-top where metal is unlikely to linger
05:48 AM XXCoder: not bad idea though might develop habit to just leave on lol
05:57 AM MarcelineVQ: oop lost this window for a bit. XXCoder: yes realistically it makes most sense just to leave it on, but it'd be fun to experiment :> jthornton: thanks for the link, I'll have to find a review about reliability with those
05:58 AM MarcelineVQ: hoho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxJc57T_dwU
05:58 AM jthornton: that was just the first example I found
05:58 AM XXCoder: new obession motorsport
06:00 AM stelios: Hello any1 here that can help me with a tb6560 config?
06:00 AM XXCoder: stelios: yeah start by throwing away tb6560 and buy BOB and tb6600s
06:00 AM archivist: he has the right bb
06:00 AM stelios: haha
06:01 AM archivist: stelios, you need to ask better questions we dont know the problem
06:02 AM stelios: I have these drivers https://s18.postimg.org/ya1kf5wo9/20160827_213305.jpg
06:02 AM stelios: and this BB https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/image/cache/catalog/stepper-driver/5-axis-cnc-breakout-board-interface-mach3-cnc-router-kit-408-1000x1000.JPG
06:02 AM MarcelineVQ: 10x better than my drivers :>
06:03 AM stelios: and i cant find the right config in LCNC to make them run correctly
06:03 AM stelios: i get vibrations, and the machin stops at speeds that it didnt stop with mach3
06:04 AM jthornton: your step timing could be too low
06:04 AM archivist: or acceleration too fast
06:04 AM MarcelineVQ: if you can't find a right config then you should try sharing your config, possibly also including screnshots of the stepconf
06:05 AM stelios: the accelatation is the same that i used on Mach3 and it was working without problems
06:07 AM stelios: As for the step timings i used what LCNC users recommended for the tb6560 drivers
06:07 AM stelios: 5000,5000,20000,20000
06:08 AM jthornton: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TB6560
06:09 AM jthornton: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/27-driver-boards/25875-problem-driving-steppers-problem-with-tb6560
06:09 AM XXCoder: yeah thats why I said to throw away tb6560
06:09 AM jthornton: google tb6560 site:linuxcnc.org gives 207 results
06:10 AM XXCoder: I suggled with it bunch times, threw it away got tb6600 boom great
06:10 AM stelios: i know the result of the google search i am trying to fix it for 2 weeks now.
06:11 AM stelios: thats why i came here coz i have tryed almost everythin i see
06:16 AM MarcelineVQ: sooo, what's your config?
06:24 AM stelios: do you want me to upload my ini file?
06:28 AM MarcelineVQ: sure and hal. I can't read them well myself, I tend to use stepconf currently, but your ini and hal files are the least of what people would need to see to know if your setup is the issue
06:28 AM jthornton: use a pastebin
06:28 AM MarcelineVQ: So if you're asking for help about configs, that's the route
06:28 AM jthornton: http://paste.ubuntu.com/
06:32 AM stelios: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26194118 ini file
06:33 AM stelios: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26194123 hal file
06:44 AM jthornton: they look normal to me
06:45 AM stelios: yea but everything works far away from normal..
06:46 AM jthornton: what is the result of your latency test
06:47 AM stelios: 29416
06:47 AM jthornton: hmm that is good enough for software step generation
06:48 AM stelios: main problem is that the motors sound somehow weird
06:48 AM XXCoder: jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_90ffOoTY
06:48 AM stelios: they vibrate
06:50 AM stelios: is this vibration a result of step timing or maybe a problem of tb6560 hardware?
06:50 AM stelios: except of all these in mach3 everything was working smoothly
06:53 AM * jthornton wanders off to start his day
06:56 AM MarcelineVQ: whats your microstepping set to? this is all I can think of that would effect vibration. Unless rising or falling edge settings can affect that, I don't know how to set that sort of thing but it's something else to search on.
06:57 AM MarcelineVQ: Are the motors moving the correct distance despite the vibration?
06:58 AM MarcelineVQ: some info here, dunno how helpful to your problem http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
07:39 AM slipalong: Hi can someone help with an error In getting with the G code from F360
07:39 AM slipalong: tool cage T10 M6
07:39 AM slipalong: tool change
07:40 AM slipalong: T10 M6 then T13
07:40 AM slipalong: LinucCNC is moaning that TOOL 6 doesn't exist, but its too 13 Im loading??
07:45 AM _methods: why don't you pastebin the full code so people can see what you have in your gcode
07:45 AM _methods: that's always helpful
07:45 AM _methods: might be something else going on we can't see
07:48 AM slipalong: If I edit the files and simply do a M6 T13 to change to tool 13 its happy
07:49 AM slipalong: so its the T10 M6 that is confusing things
08:11 AM Tom_L: always glad to help :)
08:11 AM Tom_L: come back when you can stay a while
08:12 AM stelios: MarcelineVQ microstepping is set to 1/2 and yes the motors travel the correct distance
08:18 AM IchGucksLive: hi
08:20 AM Tom_L: hello Germany
08:20 AM IchGucksLive: stelios: i use tb6560 alot what is your problem
08:22 AM IchGucksLive: slipaong still on ?
08:23 AM Tom_L: he left
08:23 AM IchGucksLive: _methods: Lcnc loads no tool trhat is not in tooltable
08:23 AM IchGucksLive: and as there are only 6 inside it wont load T10
08:23 AM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: you shoudt have known this also
08:24 AM Tom_L: i do
08:24 AM IchGucksLive: WE need to get this inside the WIKI
08:24 AM Tom_L: he left before anyone could answer
08:24 AM Tom_L: you can't stab someone with a fork you don't have
08:24 AM _methods: yep
08:24 AM _methods: and he still didn't paste his code
08:25 AM IchGucksLive: at stelios BASE_PERIOD = 50000
08:25 AM Tom_L: he'll either fight it forever, give up or come back and ask nicely
08:25 AM IchGucksLive: get this up to 100000
08:25 AM Tom_L: IchGucksLive see my frame?
08:26 AM IchGucksLive: yes nice ser
08:26 AM IchGucksLive: sir
08:26 AM _methods: welding going better with some gas flow?
08:26 AM _methods: :)
08:26 AM Tom_L: hah
08:26 AM IchGucksLive: what are you going to drill
08:26 AM IchGucksLive: tank steel
08:26 AM Tom_L: if i need to
08:26 AM IchGucksLive: this frame will take a 2inch drill
08:27 AM MarcelineVQ: Let's hope so, that means there's enough tolerance built in to take a 1/2"
08:27 AM IchGucksLive: stelios: 400steps/mm loses alot of speed about 4 times
08:27 AM IchGucksLive: as 100Steps per mm fits the best Speed Torque precision
08:28 AM IchGucksLive: MarcelineVQ: he got a good grinder
08:30 AM MarcelineVQ: By tolerance in this case I mean you should double what you think a machine needs, then double that because humans are mostly bad at estimation, so if it can do 2" it's good for 1/2" by that loose reasoning
08:51 AM stelios: Hi InGucks if I change in the .ini file at SCALE=400 and make it 100 the travel is not the actual
08:54 AM stelios: now Im on Half step so the the right number in the .ini file at SCALE is 400,so to have the actual travel
08:55 AM stelios: You mean to set it on whole step?
09:01 AM IchGucksLive: stello did you increse the microsteping
09:01 AM IchGucksLive: what spoindle you got
09:01 AM IchGucksLive: stelios: the tread pitch
09:02 AM IchGucksLive: 1Rev
09:02 AM IchGucksLive: ballscrews normaly got 5mm
09:02 AM stelios: mine is 1204 means that 4mm per rev
09:02 AM IchGucksLive: SO why not Halfstepping
09:03 AM IchGucksLive: this gets you to 200*2 = 400
09:03 AM stelios: im a little confused....
09:03 AM IchGucksLive: #YOU got the best and make it worse
09:03 AM archivist: ich never reads every thing
09:03 AM IchGucksLive: then you see the double speed
09:03 AM stelios: in reality i dont know if my drivers sre set in microstepping
09:03 AM IchGucksLive: it seams set to 4
09:04 AM stelios: i just put 200 steps in stepconfig
09:04 AM IchGucksLive: so lets start over
09:04 AM stelios: 1/2 microstepping
09:04 AM IchGucksLive: YES this is what you want
09:04 AM stelios: and 4mm pitch per rev
09:05 AM IchGucksLive: this brings you to 100Stepsper mm
09:05 AM stelios: after that my .iini has SCALE=100
09:05 AM stelios: yes but the actual reading is not right
09:05 AM stelios: i mean 1mm travel in lcnc its not 1mm in reality
09:05 AM IchGucksLive: thats why you need to set the DIP
09:05 AM stelios: so i set SCALE=400
09:06 AM stelios: to have actual travel
09:06 AM IchGucksLive: the TB6560 is set to 4 not to 1/2
09:06 AM stelios: oooo
09:06 AM IchGucksLive: do you got the Blue or the red board
09:06 AM stelios: I feel It starts to make a little sense now
09:07 AM stelios: the other problem is that i cant find anywhere how to set DIP.... for this certain DRiver
09:07 AM IchGucksLive: what Steppers you got
09:07 AM IchGucksLive: I got the DIP setting for YOU
09:07 AM stelios: I have no manual
09:08 AM IchGucksLive: its on the CD
09:08 AM stelios: they have only one red line of 7microswitches
09:08 AM stelios: I have no cd....
09:08 AM IchGucksLive: can you do a image of your driver i got the thing to set
09:08 AM stelios: i think so just a moment
09:09 AM IchGucksLive: FIRST ALL power off also the PARPORT unplug
09:09 AM stelios: https://s18.postimg.org/ya1kf5wo9/20160827_213305.jpg
09:09 AM IchGucksLive: FIRST ALL power off also the PARPORT unplug
09:09 AM IchGucksLive: FIRST ALL power off also the PARPORT unplug
09:09 AM stelios: stepper motors are nema 23 i think the smallest
09:10 AM stelios: about 5cm height....2Amps?
09:10 AM IchGucksLive: there are 2A and 3A stpperes
09:10 AM IchGucksLive: ok
09:10 AM IchGucksLive: so its a 2015 main tb card
09:12 AM stelios: Bboard is this https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/image/cache/catalog/stepper-driver/5-axis-cnc-breakout-board-interface-mach3-cnc-router-kit-408-1000x1000.JPG
09:15 AM stelios: I unplugged everything and Im just wait ... :P
09:18 AM IchGucksLive: got it let me check more
09:18 AM stelios: thnx ok
09:18 AM IchGucksLive: NP the 7th is the hint
09:18 AM IchGucksLive: but it is on that board for the GAL use you dont have
09:21 AM IchGucksLive: stelios: S1 -S6
09:22 AM stelios: ?
09:22 AM IchGucksLive: on off on on on off S7 off
09:22 AM IchGucksLive: 1011100
09:22 AM stelios: 1 means the white up?
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: is there is a Arrow that gives the 1
09:23 AM stelios: nope
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: OK then tell me what setting is on set
09:24 AM IchGucksLive: 5-6 off on ?
09:24 AM stelios: mine is 0011101
09:25 AM stelios: there is an arrow down on ...ok
09:25 AM stelios: so put it 1011100?
09:26 AM IchGucksLive: wait it is not what i see in my setting list to get you to the scale
09:27 AM IchGucksLive: ok i got it invers isent there 1
09:27 AM IchGucksLive: DIP 1
09:28 AM IchGucksLive: M1 M2 Dc1 Dc2 TQ1 Tq2
09:28 AM IchGucksLive: is my reading
09:29 AM stelios: these are 6
09:30 AM IchGucksLive: we are only on the 6 the 7this always of
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: M2 M1 Mode
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: (Excitation)
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: M2 M1
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: L L 2-phase
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: L H 1-2-phase
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: H L W1-2-phase
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: H H 2W1-2-phase
09:31 AM stelios: i have four wires
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: M1 H M2 l
09:31 AM IchGucksLive: 10
09:32 AM MarcelineVQ: Ichs are you getting this info from a document you could give to stelios?
09:32 AM stelios: on off the first two
09:34 AM IchGucksLive: yes
09:34 AM stelios: mine are off already....maybe that means are already in 2phase
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: no it means HH
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: so 1/16
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: i hope the arrow is H
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: it seams to be L
09:35 AM stelios: yes the arrow is h
09:36 AM IchGucksLive: so go for it
09:36 AM IchGucksLive: 10
09:36 AM stelios: ok first 2 =1-0
09:36 AM stelios: these are for steps?
09:37 AM IchGucksLive: yes
09:37 AM IchGucksLive: next 2 are DECLAY mode
09:37 AM IchGucksLive: this is the Mode of reducing and giving pwm
09:38 AM IchGucksLive: it shoudt be HH
09:38 AM stelios: they are HH
09:38 AM IchGucksLive: and LH for the 1.75A
09:39 AM stelios: so you say... HL HH LH and 7th L
09:40 AM IchGucksLive: yes
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: its all in the TB6560HQ sheet by the way as it isbuild out of this PCB
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: fire up the system
09:41 AM stelios: with this setup....in step config put half step and then SCALE=100 ?
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: open in i
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: ini
09:42 AM IchGucksLive: OR use Stepconf
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: give it that 100 scale
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: and start your config
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: then power the TB board
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: and go on ruler
09:50 AM IchGucksLive: stelios: still here ?
09:52 AM IchGucksLive: hi rick
09:52 AM rick_joc: hello
09:52 AM stelios: yeah
09:52 AM IchGucksLive: and stelios
09:53 AM IchGucksLive: rick just ask
09:53 AM rick_joc: nothing to ask ;)
09:54 AM IchGucksLive: best to be
09:56 AM stelios: with that config and SCALE=100 I take an actual reading of 0.1mm for 1mm in AXis
09:57 AM IchGucksLive: stelios: is there a gear between
09:58 AM stelios: no nothing
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: whow so this is whear
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: but good to go for as we see it is the right dip
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: did the noice change
10:00 AM IchGucksLive: the power setting
10:00 AM stelios: yeap
10:00 AM stelios: and i set first two LH
10:00 AM stelios: and i get the right reading
10:00 AM stelios: that means we are in half step
10:01 AM stelios: SCALE=100
10:01 AM IchGucksLive: YES
10:01 AM IchGucksLive: you are the man
10:01 AM stelios: hahaha
10:01 AM IchGucksLive: now you are up
10:01 AM IchGucksLive: in ini
10:01 AM stelios: so I just had it foe 1/16
10:01 AM stelios: for 1/16
10:01 AM IchGucksLive: GET the BASE to 100000
10:01 AM IchGucksLive: in the in i
10:02 AM IchGucksLive: edit it by hand
10:02 AM stelios: yeah
10:02 AM IchGucksLive: after al is working
10:02 AM IchGucksLive: then you will see a rewal good speed at 3m/min
10:02 AM IchGucksLive: dont go higher then 225 in ACC
10:03 AM IchGucksLive: i use 120 for most but this is up to you
10:04 AM stelios: I can see a very smooth travel without vibrations.....
10:04 AM stelios: but as I played back and fwd
10:05 AM stelios: I had a stall with 2400mm/m
10:05 AM archivist: never run too close to max, you need headroom for cutting forces
10:05 AM stelios: so maybe 3m/min is too much for these motors
10:06 AM IchGucksLive: as you only need 1200 go that low
10:06 AM IchGucksLive: so 20 vel and 120acc is a real good work
10:07 AM stelios: you mean to work with a speed at half of stall speed?
10:07 AM MarcelineVQ: stelios: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/stepconf.html#sub:finding-maximum-velocity if you've not seen it
10:07 AM IchGucksLive: on this boards
10:07 AM IchGucksLive: but it will go the 3m
10:07 AM stelios: ok got it
10:07 AM IchGucksLive: you see its all inside ;-)
10:07 AM stelios: seems everything is ok
10:08 AM stelios: thanks a lot ingucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:08 AM IchGucksLive: if the stepers get hot the 56 DIP is to high
10:08 AM MarcelineVQ: stelios: I had trouble following along, what was the issue in the end?
10:08 AM IchGucksLive: microstepping
10:08 AM the_wench: http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities
10:09 AM IchGucksLive: MarcelineVQ: set to 1/16 if only 1/2 needed
10:09 AM stelios: yeah I had it for 1/16 and I thought it was for 1/2
10:09 AM MarcelineVQ: had what, your software settings or your hardware?
10:09 AM stelios: so all the configurations were for 1/2.....everything wrong
10:11 AM IchGucksLive: no its just as i always tell get the SYSTEM to MAX speed at MAX torye at BEST Precision
10:11 AM IchGucksLive: FROM Hardware the start config
10:12 AM IchGucksLive: 4mm pitch needs Halfstepping at 1.8 Steppers
10:17 AM stelios: InGucks you say I will need no more than 1200mm/min...that seems too low to me....
10:18 AM stelios: As I calculate my speeds n feeds with this equation spindle rpm x flutes x chipload....
10:19 AM gloops: what are you cutting stelios?
10:19 AM stelios: chiploads from here http://prntscr.com/hobwbl
10:20 AM stelios: most wood but trying to figure speeds n feeds for aluminium
10:21 AM gloops: ahh right, did you build the machine yourself?
10:21 AM stelios: no its a chinnese 3040
10:21 AM gloops: ok
10:21 AM IchGucksLive: the tb will make 3m
10:21 AM IchGucksLive: so go for 40 160
10:21 AM malcom2073: Ugh, buddy of mine at a machine auction, calls to tell me a mazak jsut went for $170
10:22 AM malcom2073: Auction is 20 minutes from me
10:22 AM IchGucksLive: yes mashines now are very vheep
10:22 AM malcom2073: Yeah, goign for less than scrap price
10:22 AM malcom2073: I don't have the money to move it, or the space atm heh
10:22 AM IchGucksLive: that is the wearest to me
10:22 AM malcom2073: Otherwise I would've gone and tried to pick up a VMC
10:23 AM IchGucksLive: the 1T is at 460USD
10:23 AM IchGucksLive: and a 3T mashine woudt get you more to the chunk guys then selling it
10:23 AM IchGucksLive: i go AFTER this and tell them to get this to Schools
10:24 AM malcom2073: yeah heh
10:24 AM IchGucksLive: llike the 400MH serius used there
10:24 AM IchGucksLive: i seen a Alzmetall 1050 at 00USD going
10:24 AM IchGucksLive: 700
10:25 AM IchGucksLive: every school i know woudt take it but time is on GOV an issue
10:25 AM IchGucksLive: i pray and bargle
10:25 AM IchGucksLive: to schools get a foundation service
10:26 AM rick_joc: stelios: what spindle do you have?
10:26 AM IchGucksLive: that holds the money to get intime pric
10:26 AM IchGucksLive: 1204
10:26 AM IchGucksLive: rick_joc:
10:26 AM gloops: they are obsolete thats why
10:26 AM IchGucksLive: or the tool
10:27 AM malcom2073: Man, it was a VQC-15/40 too
10:27 AM malcom2073: Obsolete, and nobody wants to move them
10:27 AM malcom2073: Pretty much only useful to the hobbiests, and few hobbiests can deal with machines that big
10:27 AM malcom2073: Benchtop machines? Sell for $2-4k
10:27 AM IchGucksLive: mashines like that dont be sold by 1 week
10:27 AM IchGucksLive: its a timespan
10:28 AM archivist: it is silly that the hobbyists avoid big toys
10:28 AM IchGucksLive: and they do not ask local shopews
10:28 AM gloops: mazak VQC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEBIuSkaDro
10:28 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: your dream
10:29 AM malcom2073: gloops: yeah
10:29 AM gloops: malcom i wish i had a unit full of bendy taeg benchtop milling machines
10:29 AM malcom2073: I would've loved one of those, I have a knee mill right now
10:29 AM gloops: they bid £600 for them here, Bridgeports go for £250
10:30 AM IchGucksLive: im off
10:40 AM malcom2073: bwahaha, the guy that bought that mazak, doesn't even want it
10:40 AM malcom2073: Idiot heh
10:40 AM archivist: offer 50 dolla
10:40 AM gloops: he'll make something on it though
10:41 AM malcom2073: He has 30 days to move it, My buddy told him to craigslist it for $500 as it sits
10:41 AM malcom2073: The guy has never had a CNC, he doesn't even know how to move a machine that big
10:41 AM gregcnc: oops
10:41 AM gloops: why did it go for that though if there were machine people about?
10:42 AM malcom2073: gloops: It's not an online auction
10:42 AM malcom2073: and it's in the middle of nowhere
10:42 AM gregcnc: machine shop or someone had it in their barn?
10:42 AM malcom2073: Nah, big screw factory
10:42 AM malcom2073: They have a ton of machines
10:42 AM malcom2073: But didn't advertize the auction well, and didn't offer online bidding
10:43 AM gregcnc: did everythign sell cheap or just he junk?
10:43 AM gloops: bet the scrap men knew about it
10:43 AM malcom2073: A hardinge chunker went for $100, other stuff is going for <$500
10:43 AM malcom2073: Nah, this Mazak was worth more than $170 in scrap, the scrappers aren't there
10:43 AM malcom2073: it's 10klbs
10:44 AM gloops: 5 tonne?
10:44 AM malcom2073: Yeah
10:44 AM gloops: thats a lot of journeys with a trailer
10:44 AM malcom2073: I'm so psised I don't have the money atm, I'd go up and buy it off the guy that doesn't want it
10:45 AM malcom2073: One?
10:45 AM gloops: borrow , beg
10:45 AM malcom2073: My trailer is only 7k, my buddy has a 10k trailer, but that's pushing the towing capacity of my truck heh
10:45 AM gloops: go and see the neighbours tell em your grandma needs medicine
10:45 AM malcom2073: And i'd have to pay a rigger to load/unload anyway
10:45 AM malcom2073: Lol
10:45 AM Rab: >10K trailer might require a CDL anyway.
10:45 AM gregcnc: rigger will cost maore than machine
10:46 AM gloops: it would split
10:46 AM malcom2073: Rab: 26k
10:46 AM malcom2073: needs a CDL
10:46 AM malcom2073: Well, 26k combined
10:46 AM Rab: malcom2073, 26K *combo*.
10:46 AM malcom2073: 10k trailer is easily pulled by a 10k truck
10:47 AM slipalong: Trying to cut a part and I have touched off the 4 tools I want to uses for the gob to the top of the stock
10:47 AM Rab: But I believe there is a separate restriction on absolute trailer weight. That is, the only trailer rated for 10K is also capable of combined GVW greater than 26K, and that's what some troopers look for.
10:47 AM slipalong: When I run the job the 3 mm drill is 50 mm above the part I trying to machine
10:48 AM Rab: malcom2073, which state is this? (Assuming USA)
10:48 AM malcom2073: Rab: It depends on the state, and the trooper. The laws are pretty vauge
10:48 AM malcom2073: PA
10:48 AM gloops: slipalong youve had this problem before?
10:48 AM malcom2073: My truck is registered at 9k GVW, and as a tow vehicle, which means I can tow up to the towing capacity (which is 10k trailer weight)
10:48 AM slipalong: The the 1st 3d part with multiple tools I have tried
10:49 AM malcom2073: But a 10k part on a 2k trailer would put me over anyway
10:49 AM malcom2073: Plus the truck is 20 years old, so probably not that many horses left :P
10:49 AM slipalong: do I need to put the real z axis tool offsets into F360?
10:49 AM gregcnc: slipalong check that the code is pulling the proper offset and check the tool table
10:49 AM gloops: for a one off trip you have to run the risk
10:50 AM gloops: get someone to drive behind you like a stopper
10:50 AM slipalong: The Linux cnc tool offset are spot on
10:50 AM Tom_L: slipalong are those tools listed in the tool table?
10:50 AM slipalong: but when I run the F360 code
10:50 AM malcom2073: I've never been pulled over and weighed anyway
10:50 AM malcom2073: Still can't afford to bring a rigger out to load it though :P
10:50 AM slipalong: Yes in Linux cnc I have all the tools listed and have touched them all off to the top off the stock
10:51 AM Tom_L: _methods you should be the proud owner of a mazak now
10:51 AM gregcnc: then check the code, either it's calling the wrong Hxx or the path is incorrect
10:51 AM _methods: Why mazak?
10:51 AM Tom_L: running G54? make sure it's zero'd too
10:52 AM Tom_L: err not you malcom2073
10:52 AM Tom_L: ^^ above
10:52 AM _methods: Hahah
10:52 AM malcom2073: Tom_L: Nope
10:52 AM slipalong: yes running G54
10:52 AM slipalong: the face mill and the spot drills cycles where ok
10:53 AM malcom2073: If I had the money I would've done it in a heartbeat, supposidly the machines worked too when the plant shutdown
10:53 AM slipalong: but drilling the holes was like 50 mm too high and the adaptive clearing cycle also was 50 mm too haigh
10:53 AM slipalong: Im missing something
10:54 AM slipalong: I assumed when we do a too change the z offset is loaded
10:54 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZAK-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-Model-VQC-15-40/222751250381?
10:55 AM gregcnc: check the G43 Hxx for those tools
10:56 AM slipalong: Got G43 Z15. H6 after I load tool 9
10:57 AM gregcnc: Check the offset on tool description in F360
10:57 AM malcom2073: 0 bids heh
10:57 AM slipalong: which is s 3mm endmill
10:57 AM slipalong: so I need the real tool offsets from Linuc cnc in F360?
10:58 AM gloops: too big for diy/hobby, larger machining companies wont invest in that
10:58 AM malcom2073: Yeah
10:58 AM malcom2073: Great for my style of diy/hobby, but I'm rare
10:59 AM malcom2073: Maybe in a month, when he hasn't managed to sell it, I can offer him like $200 to deliver it to me haha
10:59 AM gregcnc: slipalong open the tool editors for the tools with problems and the issue will be clear as day
11:00 AM slipalong: I think whats I didn't understand was that F360 needs to know all the z offests
11:00 AM slipalong: I assumed Linuxcnc recalculated when I do a tool change
11:00 AM gregcnc: it does not
11:01 AM slipalong: so why opening the tool editor in F360 going to help?
11:01 AM gregcnc: look
11:01 AM slipalong: sorry if Im being thick
11:01 AM gregcnc: stop guessing, there is a method to my madness
11:02 AM archivist: I would have thought it needs the same knowledge as linuxcnc about the tools
11:03 AM slipalong: Ok I have the tool editor open for a 3mm twist drill;
11:03 AM gregcnc: a random tool or the one used in your tool path?
11:04 AM slipalong: In the post processor I have high and diameter offsets set to 1mm
11:04 AM slipalong: ]is that the problem
11:05 AM slipalong: Its tool 13 and used in the 3rd operation on my part
11:05 AM slipalong: its way high above when I try to drill
11:05 AM slipalong: 40 or 50 mm high
11:06 AM gregcnc: lenght offset is not a distance value
11:06 AM gregcnc: diameter offset is not a distance value
11:07 AM gregcnc: these are the offset register values
11:07 AM gregcnc: in your case they must match tool number, unless you intend otherwise
11:08 AM slipalong: ah ok didn't know that
11:08 AM slipalong: so In using tool 13 with tool 1's ofsets
11:08 AM gregcnc: yes, this was clear when you call T9 and H6 was posted, which is why i said check the code
11:09 AM slipalong: Thanks Greg makes sense
11:09 AM slipalong: Im lucky I didn't break something
11:10 AM gregcnc: dry run low feed/rapid overides and no material is part of the game
11:12 AM slipalong: yes I learnt that the hard way (expensive)
11:12 AM slipalong: Thanks again
11:25 AM slipalong: Greg still something odd if Im reading this correctly https://pastebin.com/TTknVCsD
11:26 AM slipalong: so I have a M6 to load T13
11:26 AM slipalong: T13 is a 3mm twist drill
11:26 AM slipalong: but then the G43 is using H10??
11:51 AM gloops: infinite axis snake arm robots are the future
11:52 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gU6TWGynkU&feature=youtu.be
11:56 AM asdfasd2: gloops: wow is that alien?
11:57 AM gloops: no its a machine, pretty scary
11:57 AM gloops: has had some application as water jet cutter i think
11:59 AM asdfasd2: it look like one movie
11:59 AM asdfasd2: the abyss
11:59 AM asdfasd2: https://youtu.be/xNLtPLFECNw?t=48
12:01 PM gloops: yeah i thought of that when i saw it
12:02 PM gloops: and those probe things in matrix
12:03 PM gloops: soft robots are also interesting
12:04 PM gloops: robocop was sci fi when i was younger,could be reality in 5 years, or next year even
12:04 PM gloops: you could have a virtually indestructible soft robot that was a devastating killing machine for combat
12:27 PM gregcnc: slipalong?
12:33 PM gregcnc: slipalong T10 M6 is the tool call. H10 is correct. T13 is the next tool(preload). If your machine doesn't preload tools you don't need this.
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:36 PM gloops: evening
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:48 PM gloops: warm for xmas
12:48 PM gloops: tropical air
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: real Bug on the screen uge
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: came from sealing
12:49 PM gloops: beetle?
12:51 PM XXCoder: butter bug
12:54 PM andypugh: Although the type has been made in other countries, it appears that the UK is home to more than its fair share of small, hand-operated surface grinders. ,,,, All, even today, are useful machines: easy to set up and use they provide both the advantage of exercise and disadvantage of lungfuls of metallic dust.
12:54 PM andypugh: `(A quote from lathes.co.uk)
12:56 PM gloops: keep a pipe in your mouth at all times while operating
12:57 PM XXCoder: gather the dust up while its running
12:57 PM XXCoder: line em up and snort em
12:57 PM SpeedEvil: I am at the moment pondering making a surface grinder from four drawer slides, on which the grinder hangs. With a loose box round the drawer slides which is the exhaust of a shopvac, and flood coolant - for leveling some stone
12:58 PM gloops: yes, you didnt see my home made overhead grinder
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: no
01:00 PM gloops: if you go to the kelham isle living history place at sheffield theres an early steel works, old grinders shop - lots of info on grinders lung, from which most of them died
01:01 PM andypugh: Well, they had to did from something
01:01 PM gloops: big stone wheels say 2 foot accross, no guards nothing, with a bench to sit on, the wheel was like between your legs, grinding cutlery all day
01:02 PM andypugh: I think that scythe grinders still work like that
01:02 PM gloops: true theyd only had died from plague or consumption or rickets anyway
01:03 PM andypugh: Indeed. So you might as well get sime useful work out of them first.
01:05 PM sync: the probably died from silicosis, if they had used different stones that would not have happened
01:06 PM gloops: its abbeydale industrial hamlet - not kelham im thinking of http://www.historyanorak.co.uk/history/TheNewHistoryanorak/archaeological/pix/abbeydale_grinder.JPG
01:09 PM gloops: it was a hard life back in't day
01:17 PM gloops: SpeedEvil is the concrete for a machine base?
01:18 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: no, tiles and stuff
01:20 PM gloops: better to cast the concrete in a machine mold?
01:20 PM gloops: machined
01:22 PM SpeedEvil: yes, these are already set
01:23 PM gloops: throw them away
01:30 PM gloops: It
01:30 PM gloops: will
01:30 PM gloops: be
01:30 PM gloops: noticed
01:30 PM gloops: that
01:30 PM gloops: the
01:30 PM gloops: death-rate
01:30 PM gloops: among
01:30 PM gloops: grinders
01:30 PM gloops: is
01:30 PM gloops: enormously
01:30 PM gloops: high,
01:30 PM gloops: and
01:30 PM gloops: affects
01:30 PM gloops: both
01:30 PM gloops: wet
01:30 PM gloops: and
01:30 PM gloops: dry
01:30 PM gloops: grinders
01:30 PM XXCoder: geez
01:30 PM gloops: ~
01:30 PM gloops: oh sorry bad paste
01:30 PM gloops: https://www.sciencedirect.com/sdfe/pdf/download/eid/1-s2.0-S0033350609800565/first-page-pdf
01:32 PM gloops: 7.1 deaths per annum out of 3880 cutlery grinders doesnt seem enormously high
01:34 PM gloops: 0.2%
01:38 PM SpeedEvil: That is approximately twice the rate, for all causes
01:38 PM gloops: what are todays figures for deaths from obesity?
01:42 PM SpeedEvil: You would need to dig down and find the set of what those numbers applied to - was it current workers, was it workers who had not been dismissed, was it people who had ever worked at that occupation, ...
01:43 PM SpeedEvil: As a comparison, lumberjacks die at the rate of 0.1% or so per year.
01:43 PM SpeedEvil: (which is the most dangerous job in the USA)
01:44 PM gloops: a lot less than die from heroin
01:46 PM SpeedEvil: Actually, on a whole population basis, heroin is about 50 per 100K, vs 110 per 100K of lumberjacks.
01:46 PM SpeedEvil: If you do it on the population of people that take heroin, then yes, it's higher.
01:46 PM SpeedEvil: But a moderate-large slice of that is due to policy decisions.
01:47 PM Loetmichel: hmmm
01:48 PM Loetmichel: i heard about "the one idiot that falls from the rig every year" in the stage rigging business... no idea how many people do that in germany, i would guess less than 2000 though
01:48 PM Loetmichel: so thats pretty high, too ;)
01:49 PM gloops: i think farming is the most dangerous occupation here now
01:49 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: where?
01:49 PM gloops: mainly because most other hands on occupations have gone
01:49 PM gloops: UK
02:13 PM nallar is now known as Ross
02:22 PM Loetmichel: gloops: THAT bad in the UK?
02:22 PM Loetmichel: only white collar jobs left?
02:22 PM gloops: Loet well we do still have some manufacturing, there is a big push to revive manufacturing in the pipeline
02:23 PM nallar is now known as Ross
02:23 PM gloops: we're so sick an tired of inferior quality imports, we're going to make stuff ourselves again
02:26 PM Loetmichel: gloops: hopefully you will find some people over there that still know how to make stuff...
02:26 PM gloops: Loet its in our blood, plus we always have archivist
02:27 PM gloops: after all, who was it that made the best cars in the world?
02:27 PM Wolf__: japan
02:27 PM Loetmichel: Wolf__: germany ;)
02:27 PM Wolf__: =P
02:28 PM gloops: UK
02:28 PM Loetmichel: gloops: prettiest i would agree
02:28 PM Loetmichel: technical best: nope.
02:28 PM gloops: rolls royce is still #1 for aero engines
02:29 PM Loetmichel: only by volume and onyl because airplanes have turn around times of 50 years
02:29 PM sync: it has nothing to do with cars tho
02:30 PM gloops: nothing to do with cars?
02:31 PM gloops: you know rolls royce cars were supplied with a cover and instructions - if the unlikely event the car broke down, you had to cover it up - because of course, rolls royces dont break down
02:35 PM Tom_L: they just wanted to hide it to avoid bad press
02:35 PM gloops: yes, they couldnt be seen to be broke down
02:35 PM Loetmichel: btw: you are aware who owns RR these days?
02:35 PM gloops: it isnt RR Loet
02:35 PM Tom_L: i did but i forgot
02:35 PM gloops: its a mere pastiche of the british company
02:36 PM gregcnc: VW or BMW
02:36 PM Tom_L: just like alot of other products of late
02:37 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: rr motors is now bentley which is owned by VW, and RR cars is owned by BMW
02:37 PM Wolf__: oh Loetmichel https://i.imgur.com/dfUOl7J.jpg =D
02:37 PM Loetmichel: only RR aircraft engines is still british ;)
02:38 PM gloops: Loet youll never make a rolls royce
02:38 PM Loetmichel: Wolf__: nice cars
02:38 PM gloops: german cars are not very good
02:38 PM Tom_L: not the ones i've seen anyway
02:38 PM Loetmichel: gloops: i wont even try. I am not in the luxury car business
02:39 PM Loetmichel: if anything i would make a pickup
02:39 PM gregcnc: cars are all the same made to last the first owner
02:39 PM Wolf__: no issues with my VW, but I did love me some Mercedes when I drove a tow truck lol
02:39 PM sync: the market disagrees
02:39 PM sync: vw and toyota battling for the largest amount of sales
02:40 PM Tom_L: then they're gathered up and ported to 3rd world countries like used washers and driers
02:40 PM gloops: the old ford transit i never had any complaints in 20 years - mercedes sprinter - what a bag of crap
02:40 PM gloops: it runs, it doesnt run, it runs, it doesnt run
02:41 PM sync: a sprinter is not made to last past 5 years
02:41 PM sync: because why would it
02:41 PM gloops: theyre crap brand new
02:42 PM sync: they are better than anything else in the bracket
02:43 PM Wolf__: my ford F550 (2012) has been a POS though… replaced almost the whole steering system and the front end still gets a nasty death wobble time to time with only 30k miles on it
02:43 PM Wolf__: and had to replace the rear brakes (rotors/calipers) once as well
02:44 PM gloops: ive not had any recent fords but all the old ones i had were ok
02:45 PM sync: that can happen with the touareg as well
02:45 PM sync: the engine is too heavy for the front axle assembly
02:45 PM sync: and you replace everything every 50Mm
02:47 PM gloops: i think american cars fell into the same trap the UK car industry did
02:48 PM Loetmichel: thatscher was in america?
02:48 PM Loetmichel: thatcher
02:48 PM gloops: depended heavily on a loyal home and allied market
02:49 PM gloops: happy to put out inferior products because they knew people would buy them because they were british/american
02:49 PM gloops: america had reagan
02:49 PM gloops: ray-gun
02:51 PM treid: Stepping through PCNConf for the first time. Using a 5i25 and 7i77. I'm confused what "I/O Connector 2" and "I/O Connector 3" tabs would correspond to in the "Mesa Card 0" page. Are these daughterboards connected to the 5i25?
02:51 PM roycroft: and at this point i think we'd be glad to have him back, compared to what we have :)
02:52 PM roycroft: but i think it can also be said that brits would almost prefer thatcher to what they have
02:52 PM gloops: theres nothing wrong with old Trump roy
02:53 PM roycroft: so i found a neat old book at the goodwill today
02:53 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: on that thought: would you elect obama for a third term after trump is gone (if that would be possible by the constitution)
02:53 PM roycroft: "american machinist's handbook and dictionary of shop terms"
02:53 PM roycroft: from 1914
02:53 PM roycroft: loetmichel: obama was a decent president
02:54 PM roycroft: i was not unhappy with him, generally
02:54 PM roycroft: i'd like to see someone a little more progressive and a lot less corporate and warmongering than obama
02:54 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: problem is: WHO?
02:55 PM roycroft: there's the rub
02:55 PM roycroft: we'll find out what our options are over the course of the next year or so
02:55 PM Loetmichel: i dont see any candidate that fits that description from over here...
02:55 PM Wolf__: i’d like to see a house and senate not full of career politicians
02:55 PM roycroft: yes
02:55 PM roycroft: but i'd take a house and senate not full of faux republicans for now :)
02:56 PM Loetmichel: thats a problem ALL democracys have
02:56 PM roycroft: i might be in favor of a religious test for holding public office - if you're religious you fail the test :)
02:57 PM Loetmichel: even the germans would like to see less career politicans in the bundestag.
02:57 PM Wolf__: problem we have in the usa is most people dont know what a republic is
02:57 PM roycroft: the centers for disease control were ordered today to not use 7 words/phrases in any official communications
02:57 PM roycroft: they cannot use the word "fetus" at all
02:57 PM roycroft: not "scientific" or "evidence based"
02:58 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: OUCH. that far?
02:58 PM roycroft: for the latter they are required to substitute "based on science and community standards"
02:59 PM roycroft: "climate change" has been banned throughout the federal government for almost a year
02:59 PM Loetmichel: sounds like a recipe for disaster if any outbreak should hit
02:59 PM gloops: yes thats a good thing
02:59 PM gloops: man made climate change isnt real
02:59 PM roycroft: so yeah, we need to get religion out of politics
02:59 PM roycroft: it's a stupid argument to have, whether climate change is human caused or human affected
03:00 PM roycroft: the evidence overwhelimingly points to human causes
03:00 PM roycroft: but i would be ok with continuing that argument
03:00 PM roycroft: to deny that climate change even exists, however, is beyond comprehension
03:00 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: its an easy way out for all corporations that cause it directyl or indireclty by saying its not man made at all
03:00 PM roycroft: yet that's where we are
03:00 PM roycroft: this country alone in the entire world
03:01 PM roycroft: just because invisible sky guy tells you that climate change is not happening does not make it so
03:02 PM roycroft: this machinist's handbook is pretty neat
03:02 PM roycroft: and it's not 90% trig tables, like most of the old ones are
03:02 PM Loetmichel: there was/is a joke in germany since the election/poll. "the only good thing about the election of trum is that it makes the world forget the blunder the brits did with the brexit" ;)
03:02 PM gloops: in the meantime china opens a new coal plant every week and continues to flood our markets with cheap iron
03:02 PM roycroft: except we didn't forget
03:03 PM roycroft: because may and her government's ineptness throw it in our faces every day
03:03 PM gloops: we unable to compete because we are 'green'
03:03 PM Loetmichel: gloops: green has nothing to do with it.
03:03 PM roycroft: we cannot compete because we don't want to compete
03:04 PM gloops: its the NWO
03:04 PM Loetmichel: you cant compete with a country where the standards of living and wage are about a thenth of yours.
03:04 PM gloops: Loet you can tariff them
03:04 PM Loetmichel: gloops: why dont you then?
03:05 PM gloops: we would if i were PM
03:05 PM Loetmichel: every time i order something from china it comes from a "GB warehouse"
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: Every time you order something not from china too
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: (pretty much)
03:05 PM Loetmichel: ... and NL and poland are already building infrastructure to overtake once the brexit is complete ;)
03:05 PM roycroft: because we have a "populist" president who screams that china is being unfair, and that he's going to fix that, while he and his daughter still rely on chinese materials and labor to make their products
03:05 PM gloops: they can have the warehouses
03:06 PM gloops: and you can have the banks
03:06 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: i meant: directly from a chinese seller
03:06 PM Loetmichel: not with a german or european middleman
03:06 PM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: yeah, I know. I was just commenting about the crashing of industry.
03:06 PM SpeedEvil: Of course, any return of manufacturing in bulk ain't gonna bring back jobs.
03:07 PM roycroft: we still do a lot of manufacturing in the us
03:07 PM roycroft: and obama brought a lot of it back
03:07 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: yes, it was a slight simplification.
03:07 PM gloops: UK has hundreds of trillions of tons of coal
03:07 PM gloops: we can compete, make no mistake
03:07 PM roycroft: the problem is that manufacturing plants are becoming increasingly automated, so bringing back manufacturing does not bring back manufacturing jobs
03:08 PM gloops: automation requires designers, coders, technicians
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: computing 50 production line jobs doing the same thing per worker, and lasting for 5 years doing the same task, even with reasonable minimum wage depressed a lot, ...
03:08 PM Loetmichel: not as much as workers beforehand
03:08 PM roycroft: even what we do here on #linuxcnc is antithetical to job creation
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: no, it really doesn't.
03:08 PM gloops: an entire network of support industry
03:08 PM roycroft: cnc machining decreases jobs
03:08 PM roycroft: yes, it does shift some jobs to more highly skilled ones
03:09 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: The problem is leverage. Amazon can for example have ~100 people coding warehouse bots.
03:09 PM SpeedEvil: And deploy them globally.
03:09 PM roycroft: but overall it decreases the total number of workers required to produce the same amount of product that was manually machined
03:09 PM Loetmichel: and bring 100000 out of job with that
03:09 PM Loetmichel: exaclty
03:09 PM gloops: Speedevil there is one seam of coal here with 23 trillion tonnes
03:09 PM gloops: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/newly-discovered-north-sea-coal-could-power-britain-centuries-1442551
03:10 PM roycroft: but that's not even our main problem
03:10 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: power isn't the problem though.
03:10 PM roycroft: our main problem is that we eliminate jobs with no concern for the displaced workers
03:10 PM Loetmichel: gloops: so what?
03:10 PM gloops: we will gasify the coal in situ
03:10 PM Loetmichel: doesent hep you if its more expensive than improting from china.
03:10 PM gloops: Loet you will be buying our gas
03:10 PM roycroft: i did not support hillary clinton's presidential run
03:10 PM roycroft: i absolutely did not want her to be president
03:11 PM roycroft: until the choice was between her and trump
03:11 PM roycroft: which to me meant crappy vs. horrible
03:11 PM roycroft: however she did know what needed to be done about the coal jobs
03:11 PM Loetmichel: gloops: russia is providing most of our gas now. and the rest is coming from the north sea. JUUUUST outside your jurisdiction i might add ;)
03:11 PM roycroft: unfortunately she's such a horrible politician that she made things much worse when she tried to explain it
03:12 PM roycroft: the coal jobs are gone, forever
03:12 PM roycroft: that has nothing to do with being "green" or anything
03:12 PM roycroft: it has to do with the increased cost of mining coal
03:12 PM roycroft: and the cheap natural gas that is a byproduct of fracking
03:12 PM roycroft: the displaced coal miners need to be retrained
03:12 PM gloops: Loet we can still drill sideways into it
03:13 PM SpeedEvil: Crashing price of solar and battery isn't helping.
03:13 PM roycroft: and new industry brought to the coal mining regions
03:13 PM SpeedEvil: Though not yet competitive
03:13 PM roycroft: poorly educated old timer coal miners cannot be practially retrained for 21st century high tech jobs
03:13 PM roycroft: they just don't have the skills to be trainable
03:13 PM gloops: roycroft youve bought into the liberal lie
03:13 PM Loetmichel: gloops: wouldnt help. point is that your country has no consumers for all that low quality cassified coal gas.
03:13 PM roycroft: but the coal mines are a mess
03:14 PM roycroft: the old timers can be hired as part of a public works program to clean up the mess
03:14 PM roycroft: and they can spend the rest of their working days doing that
03:14 PM gloops: miners cant be retrained for modern jobs because they dont want those jobs
03:14 PM roycroft: while the youngsters can be properly educated and trained for the modern economy
03:14 PM gloops: those jobs are low paid crap
03:14 PM roycroft: that's another big part of the problem
03:15 PM Loetmichel: from what i have seen in TV the american coal miners are not that badly paid
03:15 PM Loetmichel: it IS however a pretty dangerous and drity job.
03:15 PM roycroft: income inequality in this country is the greatest of any industrialized country
03:15 PM roycroft: and upward mobility is all but naught now
03:15 PM gloops: Loet why dont you admit that an independent UK is your worst nightmare
03:16 PM roycroft: an independend uk under may is the uk's worst nightmare :)
03:16 PM roycroft: independent
03:16 PM gloops: May will soon be gone
03:16 PM roycroft: yes
03:16 PM roycroft: not soon enough
03:16 PM roycroft: but soon
03:16 PM Loetmichel: gloops: why should i lie? i pity the citizens of the uk once the brexit is complete. there is simply no reason to fear them.
03:16 PM roycroft: there's no way she's going to be able to run a minority government until the next election
03:17 PM gloops: what we need is an English lion to take control, he will come soon enough
03:17 PM roycroft: but i also have no reason to believe that brits won't stupidly elect a tory government again
03:17 PM * skunkworks looks at the irc subject...
03:17 PM Loetmichel: gloops: to do what? negate the decision of your citizens to exit the EU?
03:18 PM gloops: Loet no to tear up article 50 and tell germany to stick its 40 billion
03:18 PM roycroft: the uk has bent over and spread its cheeks, and nobody is going to be able to change that posture before brexit is complete
03:18 PM gloops: germany owes us money
03:19 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: nicely said. a bit drastic, but to the point
03:19 PM Loetmichel: gloops: says who?
03:19 PM gregcnc: skunkworks they are planning to cnc or 3d print politics into correctness for all
03:19 PM roycroft: loetmichel: the sad thing is that any sentient being knew this going in
03:20 PM skunkworks: if it were only so easy
03:20 PM gloops: Loet the EU has been robbing us blind for 25 years, we never had any of that stuff they said we had
03:20 PM roycroft: jingoism does tend to cloud rational thought, though
03:21 PM gloops: the EU accounts have nit been signed off for 20 years
03:21 PM roycroft: we unfortunately were a victim of this november of last year
03:21 PM Loetmichel: gloops: even if that were true: how do you think it will be better without any ressources outside your isle, neither buyers nor suppliers?
03:22 PM gloops: i think you should consider that yourself Loet, we buy a tenth of your cars
03:22 PM roycroft: blow up the chunnel!
03:22 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: jingoism? thats a word? what does it mean=
03:22 PM roycroft: build a wall around the channel!
03:23 PM roycroft: it's a term meaning aggressive, overzealous patriotism
03:23 PM roycroft: considering one's own country superior to all others
03:23 PM gloops: our new carries and 26 patrol boats will take care of that
03:23 PM gloops: carriers
03:23 PM Loetmichel: gloops: exactly. a thenth. we will barely feel that. unlike your people, who will with one swift strike have 90% less ressources and out of country sales.
03:24 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i see
03:24 PM gloops: Loet the single biggest market for your cars?
03:24 PM roycroft: it originally was coined in the 1870s regarding the uk's belligerent attitude towards russia
03:24 PM Loetmichel: still only 10% of our car sales. so what?
03:24 PM Rab: The crown will simply tighten its iron fist around the squalid colonies. BC, AUS, NZ have vast resources.
03:24 PM gloops: 10% of sales is life or death and you know it
03:25 PM roycroft: the "colonies" that are close to declaring themselves republics?
03:25 PM Loetmichel: Rab: you think that'll work in this century?
03:25 PM gloops: true Rab, the new world is where all the action is now
03:25 PM gloops: the commonwealth is a bigger market than the EU, and its growing, the EU is declining
03:26 PM roycroft: there is a very good chance that elizabeth will be the last monarch of australia
03:26 PM roycroft: it all depends on whether or not she's stubborn enough to outlive charles
03:26 PM roycroft: if she outlives him the monarachy may survive much intact
03:27 PM gloops: the german birthrate is 1.4
03:27 PM roycroft: but if he ascends to the crown the commonwealth nations will likely start ditching the monarchy
03:27 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i adore the queen... for her stamina. charles on the other hand is a bit "colourless".
03:27 PM gloops: no civilisation has ever reversed a birthrate lower than 1.9
03:27 PM roycroft: i think she's been one of the best monarchs in the history of the world
03:28 PM Loetmichel: gloops: so what?
03:28 PM gloops: Loet so german markets are not the future
03:28 PM Loetmichel: for the forseeable time: irrelevant.
03:28 PM roycroft: this book has a huge section on gears and gearing
03:29 PM roycroft: something that modern machinery handbooks often minimse
03:29 PM gloops: this happens very quickly, in the next generation you will have far fewer producers
03:29 PM gloops: in the one after - less than half what you have now
03:29 PM Loetmichel: distant future we may have a half moon in our flag some day, but for all intents and pourposes if a middle aged man today germany is still the bigges market in europe and will stay that way for at least the next few decades
03:29 PM roycroft: are you counting robots in that 1.4 birthrate? :)
03:30 PM gloops: the massive drive for immigration has even failed, causing political unrest
03:31 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: dont forget imigrants which are integrating here really nicely (bar the few % of troublemakers)
03:31 PM Loetmichel: gloops: you seem to read only rassist media if you really belive that
03:31 PM gloops: yes germans are integrating nicely with the new culture
03:31 PM MarcelineVQ: which race is that?
03:31 PM roycroft: oh, here is the full list of banned words:
03:32 PM roycroft: "diversity", "fetus", "transgender", "vulnerable", "entitlement", "science-based", and "evidence-based"
03:33 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: oh. so the entitled brats had their day, too?
03:33 PM Loetmichel: :)
03:33 PM Rab: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html
03:34 PM roycroft: a member of the american association for the advancement of science pointed out that the word "ridiculous" was not banned ;)
03:34 PM gloops: well, lets take science
03:35 PM gloops: science isnt proof of anything you know
03:35 PM roycroft: some science is proof
03:35 PM gloops: which?
03:35 PM roycroft: but there are very few proofs in science
03:35 PM Loetmichel: gloops: I pity your blindness to anything thats not in line with your deluded sight on your country. You are the pinacle of a boris johnson follower with no connection to reality left.
03:35 PM Loetmichel: Discussion end from my side because hopeless case on your end
03:35 PM gloops: Loet we will make our own reality
03:35 PM MarcelineVQ: geeze, that's a pretty firm summary judgement of a person
03:36 PM roycroft: boyle's law, for example, has been formally proven
03:36 PM roycroft: all "laws" of science have been proven
03:37 PM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: nontheness its based on evidence
03:37 PM roycroft: that is why most of established science consists of "theories"
03:37 PM roycroft: it's not a law until it's been proven
03:37 PM gloops: how is it proven?
03:37 PM Loetmichel: and franky am at a point where i dont care if he is trolling or belives all that crap for real
03:37 PM roycroft: mathematically
03:38 PM gloops: maths proofs only apply inside maths
03:38 PM roycroft: math being the language of science
03:38 PM gloops: you cannot apply them to observations
03:39 PM roycroft: if you say so
03:39 PM gloops: mathematical theorems
03:39 PM roycroft: i'll reject centuries of scientific reasoning and accept your definitions
03:40 PM gloops: i can see you arent a student of wittgenstein
03:41 PM roycroft: he was merely a beery swine who is just as sloshed as schlegel
03:42 PM roycroft: also one of the more misunderstood philosophers
03:42 PM gloops: study this roycroft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems
03:42 PM gloops: also Popper
03:44 PM gloops: Popper built on Humes notes on induction
03:44 PM roycroft: i think mayhap it would be best at this point for me to head out to the shop and try to get something done
03:45 PM roycroft: i fear the channel have grown weary of all the off-topic banter
03:45 PM roycroft: and i'm certainly guilty of contributing to that
03:48 PM Contract_Pilot: The ne wBOB for the lathe... http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Tormach-Breakout-Board-Lathe-Top.jpg
03:54 PM skunkworks: neat - why did you go with tormach board? how much is it?
03:55 PM rene-dev: what does it do?
03:58 PM skunkworks: I think it is just a BOB
03:58 PM skunkworks: that hooks to a 5i25 or the like
03:58 PM rene-dev: yes, but what IOs does it handle?
04:03 PM skunkworks: not 100% sure...
04:16 PM Deejay: gn8
04:16 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, its a going to make running and updating path pilot much simpler on this lathe
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: servo servo, angular contact bearing, PID
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: I'm countering the off topic banter
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.uilabs.org/what-is-ui-labs/how-we-work/ "innovation accelerator "
04:35 PM MarcelineVQ: at least they're not a think tank
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: this one got me http://www.uilabs.org/what-is-ui-labs/impact/?case=omative-systems-is-making-standard-machines-smarter
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: What if a machine could respond to its environment and adjust production accordingly, without the need for manual intervention?
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.omative.com/ WTF?
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: The Condition Monitoring for Predictive Maintenance (CMPM) solution provides predictive maintenance for factories
04:38 PM MarcelineVQ: and condition monitoring I​ bet
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: hey I bet that drill bit is going to wear out soon, maybe you should think about changing it"
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: With well-maintained machines, your tools will last longer, work better, cut with higher precision, and produce higher quality parts. really!? Who would of ever think of this?
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: jesus christ where do I invest in this magic?
04:40 PM MarcelineVQ: You could get in on the ground floor if you act now
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/592fb5f929687ffb1f82276d/t/59705f4b44024361ac0aecfa/1500536655405/Stamping+Die+2.pdf
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: case study ^^
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: first you get rid of all the actual machinists ...
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: then you add vibration and force monitoring to the machines
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: sell them software that monitors wear
04:48 PM Tom_L: conspiracy
04:49 PM DaViruz: IoT, Industry 4.0, Smart Factory, they manage to combine the latest marketing wank in a single line
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: no, pressure and vibration monitoring :)
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: DaViruz: yeah, amazing
04:50 PM sync: condition monitoring is not as much bullshit as you might think
04:50 PM DaViruz: i know, i work with it
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: to address problems too big for any one organization to solve on its own.
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: a company with 1000 monkeys or a few experienced and skilled people?
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: condition monitoring isn't BS
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: it's the way they market it
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: listen for chatter (condition monitoring)
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: feel vibration (condition monitoring)
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: notice that at this rate of speed and feed the cutter tends to break after XXX many passes
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: now do the same with pressure and vibration sensors
04:54 PM sync: no, large automotive OEMs use it to optimize their tool usage
04:54 PM sync: and notice broken tools that way
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: anyone with half a brain involved with machining gets this
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: do they really hire such morons now to run these plants that they need a service to come in a have this provided?
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: from the case study it appears so
04:56 PM sync: no, but there is no one around to notice
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: in other news Canadians were noticing that snow and ice form in winter
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: how do we solve this problem?
04:57 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Remove ALL warning labels
04:57 PM sync: how is babby formed
04:57 PM jym: sync: cell by cell
04:58 PM jym: sync: oh boose, yur choice
04:58 PM jym: or*
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: jym: bingo, it's all because of too many regulations
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: and not enough tax cuts
04:58 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Isn't that what pressure washers are for? To wash off the blood
04:59 PM jym: ...and guts and stuff
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: if they get in the way, otherwise you just push the body off to the side and continue working
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: why we need AI
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: and bots
05:00 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Blood is sticky, could just get into the mechanics and foul things up
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.bigo.tv/s even worse than twitter
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: in 10 years will everyone just be streaming their existence?
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: jym: any new fun projects for the winter?
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: I need to finish my AI software project that identifies broken objects
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: it allows the user to compare their object to broken ones to help decide if the object should be saved or replaced
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: the "intelligence" may be tuned for the benefit of the sellers or owners of things
05:44 PM Tom_L: comparitor
05:44 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: I think that is beyond the realm of AI
05:45 PM andypugh: I make that decision on purely irrational grounds.
05:54 PM enleth: andypugh: one of the interesting properties of AI is that, if fed with enough matched input-output sets created by "irrational" means by humans, it tends to catch on and start producing similar results because there *was* a logical pattern, the humans just weren't able to pinpoint where exactly it comes from
05:55 PM andypugh: I doubt that an AI could find a pattern in how bored I was at the point I noticed that the thing was broken.
06:00 PM enleth: it would probably find *a* pattern nevertheless, it just might not seem to be correlated to anything obvious at all
06:04 PM CaptHindsight: I'd go to a coffee shop named "Irrational Grounds"
06:09 PM pcw_home: I heard a story of a military AI system that was meant to detect tanks in noisy image backgrounds
06:09 PM pcw_home: but the neural network figured out the week random number generator for the noise instead
06:10 PM pcw_home: weak
06:11 PM enleth: I've heard of a similar case that was taught on real images instead of generated ones
06:11 PM enleth: but it failed miserably on a second camera
06:12 PM enleth: because it tuned itself to the specific thermal noise pattern of the one it was trained on
06:14 PM enleth: the situation improved rapidly when they fed it with images from a couple dozen different cameras of the same type
06:14 PM pcw_home: apparently its also possible to fool siri and alexa into real commands with sounds that are unintelligible to humans
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: that must be fun
06:15 PM pcw_home: yeah watch out for websites that make weird noises
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: did you see the South Park episode about Alexa, Siri etc ?
06:15 PM pcw_home: no
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: if you play it in a room with one the fun really begins
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: South Park: Causes chaos by activating thousands of Amazon Echo and Google Home speakers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7AY0JLZjRA
06:25 PM andypugh: pcw_home: This might onterest you. I heard a story about someone who used a genetic algorithm to develop FPGA “patterns” (I am not sue what you would call it, as there was no actual code). He ended up with a very good result. But noticed a section of the pattern with no connections to the rest of the network. Bit when he deleted that, it stopped working. The genetic algorithm was using some sort of second-order
06:25 PM andypugh: interaction. (And, I would speculate, might not work on any other example of that chip)
06:27 PM andypugh: enleth: Not quite the same problem, but interesting. Apparently the folks doing analysis of the Cosmic Background Radiation results are only using half of the data in their models. This is because there can never, ever, be any more data (only one universe)
06:36 PM rene-dev: andypugh pcw_home I have a similar story, but they tried to detect a clock signal. but the logic was not using the clock, only some delay inside the fpga. even moving the design inside the fpga and it stopped working :D
06:39 PM CaptHindsight: clocks are for meat
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: it took the asynchronous route
06:59 PM pcw_home: Weird, one of those "flip this house" videos is being filmed down the street
07:04 PM skunkworks: you are in that area
07:05 PM XXCoder: pcw I heard bad stories on flipped houses
07:05 PM XXCoder: same for "WOW free house improvement" shows
07:08 PM CaptHindsight: didn't know flipping was back
07:08 PM XXCoder: one thing I hate about flipping is that some people do shit job, and it rises house prices for everyone.
07:09 PM XXCoder: way too many houses is empty as is./
07:09 PM XXCoder: im kinda worried about housing bubble II
07:13 PM roycroft: hey folks
07:14 PM roycroft: have any of you experienced or heard of blue loc-tite causing acrylic to crack?
07:14 PM roycroft: i just made a little collet rack out of some 1/4" acrylic and some brass standoff posts
07:14 PM roycroft: i used loc-tite intentionally so that i would not have to torque down on the screws at all beyond just snugging them up
07:15 PM roycroft: about a half hour later the acrylic cracked in two places, right below two of the standoffs
07:15 PM roycroft: the holes are countersunk so that i could use flat head screws
07:15 PM roycroft: but i've never had acrylic crack before that long after a machining operation
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: cast acrylic is a thermoset
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: extruded acrylic is a thermoplastic
07:17 PM roycroft: i'll remake the part in the morning, but i don't want the new part cracking
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: formulations vary for either
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: try a different type or go thicker
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: blue loctite is a polyglycol dimethacrylate, so in the same polymer family
07:25 PM roycroft: sorry, router rebooted
07:25 PM roycroft: i'm aware of the differences between cast and extruded acrylic
07:25 PM roycroft: i'm not certain which i have, though - this was a remnant piece
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: how thick is the part?
07:26 PM roycroft: more likely extruded than cast, i should think
07:26 PM roycroft: 1/4"
07:26 PM roycroft: fortunately the part that broke was the one with minimal machining
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: extruded may be easily bent at elevated temps
07:26 PM roycroft: but it's also the one that sits below the standoffs
07:27 PM roycroft: and a bit of loc-tite leaked down onto it
07:27 PM CaptHindsight: cast might not bend much until it just starts to decompose
07:27 PM roycroft: if i were bending it i'd use lexan
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: did it crack or melt?
07:28 PM roycroft: it cracked
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: extruded has more natural internal stress
07:28 PM roycroft: had it melted i'd blame the loc-tite for sure
07:28 PM roycroft: yes
07:29 PM roycroft: and it might be that it just took a while to crack after i countersunk the holes
07:29 PM roycroft: i considerered that, but as i said, i've never had acrylic crack that long after a machining operation
07:29 PM roycroft: usually it happens right away or within a couple minutes if it's going to happen
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: just lucky
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: loctite to some brass inserts?
07:30 PM roycroft: yes
07:30 PM roycroft: as i said, i did not want to torque down on the fasteners at all
07:30 PM roycroft: i just wanted to snug them up
07:30 PM roycroft: but i didn't want them coming loose over time, so i figured a little loc-tite would do the job
07:31 PM roycroft: i've done a fair amount of work with acrylic and polycarbonate
07:31 PM roycroft: i know better than to torque fasteners down like i would on wood or metals
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: just theorizing, no data sheets on the material
07:32 PM roycroft: since the holder is made, i can leave it upside down tomrorow when i make the new part, so that the acrylic is above the standoffs, and the loc-tite will be unlikely to contact the acrylic
07:32 PM enleth: roycroft: does it have to be transparent? I avoid using acrylic for anything unless absolutely necessary, preferring to use softer polymers that are less prone to cracking
07:33 PM roycroft: this part doesn't necessarily have to be
07:33 PM enleth: something off-white could look just as good
07:33 PM roycroft: but i have the acrylic
07:33 PM roycroft: it would actually look nice if the base were wood and the top acrylic
07:33 PM enleth: delrin sheet cutoffs make excellent holders
07:33 PM roycroft: and since it's the base that cracked, that might be an option
07:33 PM roycroft: i'd like to figure out why it cracked though
07:34 PM roycroft: when i drill acrylic i do really light pecks at it at medium speed
07:34 PM roycroft: i've always had good luck with that
07:34 PM enleth: heck, even cutting board grade HDPE works and is extremely hard to screw up
07:34 PM roycroft: heavy pressure will crack it
07:34 PM roycroft: and steady pressure will melt i
07:34 PM roycroft: t
07:34 PM XXCoder: roycroft: lock washers?
07:35 PM roycroft: the bottom needs to be flush
07:35 PM XXCoder: old style, I know
07:35 PM roycroft: hence the countersunk holes and flat head screws
07:35 PM roycroft: i used button head cap screws on the top, as they don't need to be flush
07:36 PM roycroft: i'm actually liking the thought of using wood for the base though
07:36 PM roycroft: which doesn't answer my question about why it cracked
07:36 PM roycroft: but it would actually look better than an acrylic base
07:36 PM roycroft: i think i have some 1/4" oak laying around that would do a nice job
07:37 PM roycroft: it's a good thing i used loc-tite blue and not loc-tite red
07:38 PM roycroft: my experience is that polycarbonate bends better and machines better than acrylic, but scratches a lot more easily than acrylic
07:38 PM roycroft: which is why i went with acrylic - the machining was minimal, but it's going to be in a drawer in a machinery cabinet, and likely to get jostled around
07:41 PM roycroft: wow
07:41 PM roycroft: is anyone up for a road trip to the oregon coast?
07:41 PM roycroft: this looks like a pretty good deal:
07:41 PM roycroft: https://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/d/machine-tools/6428063781.html
07:43 PM XXCoder: roycroft: from where? lol
07:43 PM roycroft: that bridgeport would go for $4k around here by itself
07:43 PM roycroft: and the leblond lathe for $4k or more
07:44 PM XXCoder: and horzional mill
07:44 PM XXCoder: so 3
07:45 PM roycroft: and there's a logan lathe and a 10" rotary table in the bundle
07:45 PM roycroft: which is why i said it looks like a good deal
07:45 PM roycroft: probably 1/2 what it would cost to buy all that stuff in pieces
07:53 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:53 PM XXCoder: I dont have money, room, and skill. lol
07:55 PM jesseg: Does look like a nice deal.. really..
08:09 PM roycroft: were that i had the space
08:09 PM roycroft: i'd find the money
08:10 PM roycroft: i would just need to sell some of my bitcoin :)
08:10 PM XXCoder: heh if I had time machine I'd get 1000 bitcoins
08:11 PM roycroft: i don't have that much
08:12 PM roycroft: but it would take less than 1/2 bitcoin to buy all that gear
08:12 PM roycroft: i have way more than that
08:12 PM XXCoder: nice
08:12 PM roycroft: i mined bitcoin for about a year a few years ago
08:13 PM roycroft: i didn't expect it to ever amount to much
08:13 PM roycroft: but i was wrong
08:13 PM roycroft: this is one of those circumstances where i like being wrong :)
08:14 PM XXCoder: I bet! I wish I tried it out
08:17 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Keep warm primarily =)
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/d/leblond-lathe-15/6427991840.html they practically give them away around here
08:25 PM Contract_Pilot: when you though you had an old 2X8 headder cable arround and then ya find out it not kills an entire evening of playing.
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: Friday evening till Saturday is when you generally run out of things
09:26 PM malcom2073: Hey sync, any work done on BiSS encoders in stmbl?
10:43 PM roycroft: a third corner of the acrylic has cracked
10:44 PM roycroft: the upper piece has not cracked at all
11:10 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: have pics?
11:14 PM roycroft: no, i didn't take any pictures
11:14 PM roycroft: and i just took the broken part off
11:15 PM roycroft: i'm wondering if my countersink had a burr on it or something
11:16 PM roycroft: i've decided to remake the part out of wood, but i still want to try to figure out why the original part cracked like it did
11:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Axis_Mount_Plates.jpg
11:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Column_Standoff1.jpg
11:16 PM Tom_L: enough for one evening
11:17 PM XXCoder: fancy
11:17 PM XXCoder: roycroft: it may be chemical reaction
11:17 PM XXCoder: or maybe lockete expands
11:17 PM roycroft: holy holes!
11:17 PM XXCoder: try put lockete on flat surface
11:17 PM XXCoder: see if it reacts
11:18 PM XXCoder: flat and CLEAN surface
11:18 PM roycroft: yeah, i'll try that
11:18 PM roycroft: the wooden base will actually look better and work out better
11:18 PM roycroft: but i want to know why the acrylic cracked, so i can try to avoid it in future
11:18 PM XXCoder: no glossy reprap surfaces, only cheaper wood reprap look ;)
11:21 PM MrHindsight: XXCoder: it shrinks slightly
11:23 PM MrHindsight: came across an XYZ table under some things from an EDM ~12^3in. travel
11:25 PM MrHindsight: also ~1.2m ballscrew
11:44 PM XXCoder: roycroft: whats result so far?
11:54 PM roycroft: i'm done for the night
11:54 PM roycroft: the heaters have been turned off in the shop for some time, and it's getting cold out there
11:54 PM roycroft: i'll pick up the project again in the morning
11:54 PM XXCoder: later
11:55 PM XXCoder: I want to know the scienfic lab test result! lol
11:55 PM XXCoder: other test maybe just drill small holes coat with lockete
11:55 PM XXCoder: like hind says it strunks so yeah