#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 14 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM Contract_Pilot: Right now i think i will just put it with flying leads.
12:16 AM IchGucksLive: hi
12:16 AM IchGucksLive: storm around all night long
12:17 AM IchGucksLive: Contract_Pilot: what are you building
12:25 AM Contract_Pilot: Version 3 of my lathe
12:26 AM IchGucksLive: with spindle sync moves
12:40 AM Contract_Pilot: I have a 2000PPR Spindle Encoder
12:40 AM IchGucksLive: very high
12:41 AM IchGucksLive: what max rpm is this
12:41 AM IchGucksLive: the necoder rated for
12:58 AM Contract_Pilot: not sure but lathe max is about 2,200 rpm
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: im off later
01:10 AM gloops: if anyone installs 2 motors on one joint/axis on 2.8 id be interested to see how it works
01:10 AM gloops: ill know anyway in a week or 2...i hope
01:29 AM MarcelineVQ: yes
01:30 AM MarcelineVQ: oh, it's late,I rea that backwards
01:30 AM MarcelineVQ: I'd like to know how it goes and the details of it once you've got it figured
01:31 AM gloops: the hal and ini file is on the forums, someone put a good explanation up, i can get the files to load but cant test it yet
01:32 AM gloops: you have to be homed to moved 2 motors- cant do it in sim
01:33 AM archivist: I thought some hal logic can pretend to be switches so homing can be tested
01:34 AM gloops: well maybe - i didnt get that far anyway
01:35 AM gloops: im interested to know how the motors home seperately, there is only so much distance they can be apart before causing mechanical problems
01:35 AM gloops: on a very tight bearing gantry - not much at all
01:37 AM archivist: the pair move and when it hits a switch the one side parks and the other joggles/catches up,
01:38 AM gloops: so they will both run together for the switch - first one to hit goes through homing procedure - other may follow, then second one homes
01:39 AM archivist: some manual manipulation needed with switch/encoder positions needed to set the initial state
01:39 AM gloops: i had this idea that they could end up pulling opposite ways backing off and homing etc
01:40 AM archivist: well some twist/untwist is going to happen, need to set amounts to move as well
01:41 AM gloops: yes, it probably wont need a lot, not quite sure how tight my gantry will be still some bolts to go in
01:45 AM gloops: these cheapo switches need 10mm push to click anyway
01:45 AM archivist: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/gantry.9.html
01:48 AM gloops: well we know it can be done, so just have to try it and see
01:49 AM gloops: not sure how mach 3 works this, it uses slaving, i think you have to home with physical stops
01:49 AM gloops: not good with screws
01:50 AM archivist: mach is a mess for less common stuff
01:50 AM gloops: or you have to synch the motors with physical stops, like push the gantry to the end both sides by hand with the machine off
01:53 AM archivist: not enough devs in the mach world
02:11 AM Deejay: moin
02:20 AM CaptHindsight: I've used LCNC with two linear servos side by side with a very rigid platform connecting them
04:26 AM Contract_Pilot: Ughhh getting to testing the motors the nema 34 perfect humms along the nema 42 keeps stalling out.
04:28 AM archivist: slow the acceleration rate
04:29 AM enleth_ is now known as enleth
04:29 AM Contract_Pilot: done that then get joint2 error
04:30 AM Contract_Pilot: or puts it in to e-stop
04:30 AM Contract_Pilot: this motor may just not be right.
04:31 AM archivist: you have another setting wrong as well, one rate has to be above the other
04:31 AM Contract_Pilot: odd that the nema34 works great just this nema42
04:32 AM archivist: max speed or something and acceleration rate
04:32 AM Contract_Pilot: I will play a bit with the settings.
04:32 AM archivist: each motor has its own settings
04:32 AM Contract_Pilot: Yep...
04:33 AM Contract_Pilot: Tried for an hour or so...
04:35 AM Contract_Pilot: BB In a bit...
04:36 AM jthornton: morning
05:34 AM Tom_L: morning
05:34 AM Tom_L: 36°F
05:36 AM jthornton: 35f here
05:36 AM XXCoder: hey
05:37 AM XXCoder: wheres good name domain provider?
05:37 AM XXCoder: godaddy and namecheap seems ok but dunno
05:37 AM jthornton: I hate godaddy
05:37 AM jthornton: I use webhost4life
05:37 AM XXCoder: me too
05:37 AM Tom_L: jthornton, you see last night's progress?
05:38 AM jthornton: no
05:38 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Base1.jpg
05:38 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Base_Column2.jpg
05:39 AM malcom2073: Contract_Pilot: Check your max speed. My nema42's at least have a pretty low max speed due to the high inductance, I switched to 80VDC up from 36VDC in an attempt to get them to spin a bit faster, would stall out at pretty slow speeds otherwise
05:39 AM XXCoder: jthornton: seems no way to just get domain not hosting
05:40 AM archivist: XXCoder, I get names separate ok
05:40 AM malcom2073: XXCoder: I use https://www.bulkregister.com/
05:40 AM XXCoder: I want to move domain off godaddy
05:40 AM XXCoder: we have the domain since 2000
05:42 AM malcom2073: Tom_L: Building your own mill?
05:42 AM Tom_L: trying
05:42 AM malcom2073: Nice
05:43 AM Tom_L: i needed a project :)
05:44 AM malcom2073: Heh, that's quite a project indeed
05:44 AM Tom_L: to distract me from all the others
05:45 AM malcom2073: I knowthat feeling
05:47 AM XXCoder: webhost4life hmm some domain is very cheap but it does not say if it is special price or not
05:47 AM XXCoder: no *
05:48 AM XXCoder: I was playing and tested funat.work
05:48 AM XXCoder: its $1.99
05:48 AM XXCoder: err funat.website I meant
05:49 AM malcom2073: Yeah most places give you super cheap the first year, then jack up the price to normal
05:49 AM archivist: XXCoder, the clever thing is run the dns yourself, then you can have infinite subdomains
05:49 AM XXCoder: webhost4life seems to do that BUT it dont say it anywhere
05:50 AM XXCoder: I tried to look in cart
05:51 AM XXCoder: register first before I can even look
05:53 AM XXCoder: wow, I had to go into checkout before I could even see year price regular price
07:46 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, the max speed is about 15 IPM way to slow
07:46 AM Contract_Pilot: I am running 80V PSU's
07:47 AM archivist: as steppers get larger they are generally slower
07:47 AM archivist: time to use servos
07:55 AM Contract_Pilot: Just drop it down to nema34 from a 42 ughhh
07:56 AM Contract_Pilot: went with the 3phase for the speed/.
07:59 AM gregcnc: 15 IPM is pretty slow
07:59 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea,
08:00 AM Contract_Pilot: pit it to 16-17 ipm = stall
08:00 AM gregcnc: what is the recommended voltage? for those motors
08:05 AM Contract_Pilot: 12.6V
08:07 AM Contract_Pilot: 110BYG350-162 http://cy00motor.com/en/about/?96.html
08:14 AM gregcnc: seems like 250-115 would have been a better choice for 80V
08:17 AM Contract_Pilot: i have a 80Vdc Liniear PSU
08:20 AM gregcnc: what is the application? 13Nm is pretty big
08:21 AM Contract_Pilot: z axis on my lathe
08:21 AM gregcnc: how big is you lathe?
08:21 AM Contract_Pilot: but may now have to make a new mount and go with a diffrent motor again.
08:22 AM Contract_Pilot: 12X36
08:22 AM gregcnc: spindle power?
08:22 AM Contract_Pilot: Was trying to utilize the original mounts
08:23 AM gregcnc: 12x36 manula conversion or tunring center retrofit?
08:24 AM Contract_Pilot: 12X Retro
08:24 AM gregcnc: You have to start somewhere. The limiting factor on your lathe will be drilling.
08:25 AM Contract_Pilot: i have a tormach 1100 for that
08:25 AM gregcnc: then calculate how much axis force is required
08:25 AM gregcnc: to size the axis motor
08:26 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/A56EFF0F-5E23-4AB7-8F82-B593AEFD0856-1024x768.jpeg
08:27 AM gregcnc: redcution ratio? screw pitch?
08:27 AM Contract_Pilot: 2:1 5 i belive
08:28 AM Contract_Pilot: I could flip the pulleys and give me 30IPM
08:29 AM gregcnc: half step?
08:29 AM Contract_Pilot: But number on the nema 34 not looking good either about 60ipm should be able to get 90 atleast
08:29 AM Contract_Pilot: 2000 Microstep
08:30 AM Contract_Pilot: 3ND883 Drives
08:31 AM Contract_Pilot: I got better speed with the old round steppers.
08:38 AM gregcnc: that setup in theory would give 7000Lb axis thrust. Might be terrifying in a crash
08:39 AM gregcnc: Realistically there is no reason to have more thrust than the spindle bearings can handle. Or the maximum force required to drill at max spindle torque.
08:40 AM gregcnc: 1/2 step would give ~4um resolution which isn't great, but not bad, 4 or 8 ustep would be plenty.
08:44 AM Contract_Pilot: I was going for fit and function but 15ipm is way to slow.
08:45 AM gregcnc: with steppers you have to make sure they stall before the machine explodes
08:45 AM archivist: why do you think you need that speed
08:45 AM archivist: hobby use?
08:46 AM gregcnc: 15IPM is snails pace even on a lathe
08:46 AM gregcnc: even for hobby use
08:46 AM archivist: fine finish :)
08:46 AM gregcnc: inserts rubbing material away vs cutting
09:14 AM gregcnc: archivist threading also comes into consideration
09:16 AM archivist: I know, 15 inches of thread is a lot of turns
09:17 AM gregcnc: unless spindle speed is very low, you can't get much pitch
09:18 AM archivist: just think how coarse that is at 1000 rpm
09:19 AM gregcnc: 66.7tpi
09:45 AM Contract_Pilot: https://youtu.be/b7Y6ZuFJY8o
09:46 AM Contract_Pilot: the nema 34 hums along
09:50 AM gregcnc: contract_pilot, I think the system is OK except for the motors. With 80V, to get max power from the motor/drive you want a motor with less than 1 ohm resistance.
09:51 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, i think that nema 42 is just junk.
09:51 AM Contract_Pilot: 75rpm before it stalls out.
09:51 AM Contract_Pilot: Unless i have a setting wrong?
09:52 AM gregcnc: They are fine if you have ~230V supply
09:52 AM Contract_Pilot: So Prob a Diffrent Drive?
09:53 AM Contract_Pilot: the smaller Nema 34 https://youtu.be/Z6KpOcKtupQ
09:56 AM gregcnc: looking at Berger Lahr docs they spec ~20x coil resistance*current for supply voltage. my machine has 5A, 1.3Ohm steppers and recommend 130V supply
09:58 AM Contract_Pilot: I know lower voltage is proformance loss but wow... 75RPM before stalling
09:58 AM gregcnc: simply has to do with BEMF
10:00 AM Contract_Pilot: So will prob just order another nema 34 but that one i am only getting 60ipm should be able to do 90 or 110
10:01 AM gregcnc: spec sheets and torque vs step Hz plots
10:01 AM gregcnc: if they don't have them, don't bother
10:02 AM archivist: move to servos
10:17 AM SpeedEvil: https://imgur.com/gallery/HT1BT
10:17 AM SpeedEvil: :)
10:24 AM MarcelineVQ: hmm, no range for the hat angle, jaunty must be a standardized term
10:27 AM Contract_Pilot: This is the crap that makes me want to take this lathe to the scrap yard.
10:28 AM archivist: not the lathes fault
10:29 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, mine i giess trying to take the simple route....
10:29 AM Contract_Pilot: but 75rpm with a 80V PSU
10:30 AM Contract_Pilot: maybe the motor has a fault?
10:30 AM MarcelineVQ: what a cutie https://images.craigslist.org/00q0q_i7ZM9ZNM4P1_1200x900.jpg
10:31 AM archivist: inductance rises with size, it is the way steppers work
10:33 AM archivist: Contract_Pilot, reduce acceleration, you might get to higher speeds
10:34 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, but should be faster then 75rpm...
10:34 AM Contract_Pilot: Tried that archivist nada
10:35 AM archivist: the only way to inject more current with high inductance is higher voltage
10:37 AM Contract_Pilot: that means a diffrent drive
10:39 AM archivist: do you still have it set for silly number of microsteps
10:43 AM gregcnc: 2000steps per rev is OK
10:43 AM gregcnc: I don't know how they do microsteping in that drive for a 1.2°/step motor
10:47 AM gregcnc: http://www.hybridservos.com/stepper-motor-nema-42-series
10:47 AM gregcnc: plot is on 220VAC
10:49 AM gregcnc: machine controls aren't like walking into dunkin donuts
11:01 AM jthornton: a nema 43 stepper with 80v and a decent drive should to over 1,000 rpm with no problem
11:02 AM jthornton: https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/surestepmotors.pdf
11:02 AM jthornton: well one of them can only go 900
11:09 AM archivist: Contract_Pilot, is it 8 wire or 4
11:17 AM gregcnc: both have very low resistance 0.3 or 0. 5 ohm vs 4.2 ohm for the motor CP has
11:19 AM archivist: 4.2 is very high for a beefy motor
11:20 AM gregcnc: which is why it needs 200-325V
11:20 AM archivist: yup, incorrect driver
11:29 AM gregcnc: Dear Santa? https://www.instagram.com/p/BcKudu_HcMe/
11:31 AM jym: gregcnc: Lil greedy, aren't we? lol
11:32 AM * jym tells Santa to put coal in gregcnc's stocking because he made him turn off adblocker to see that pic!
11:33 AM gregcnc: my adblocker doesn't block instagram?
11:33 AM MarcelineVQ: loads fine with blocker, you might need a new block :X
11:34 AM gregcnc: even one Robodrill would be OK
11:39 AM jym: Nope, I have custom blocking, and I like it that way.
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:36 PM gloops: Width (A): 8" (203.2mm)
12:36 PM gloops: Length (C): 1000mm (39.4")
12:36 PM gloops: Thickness (B): 1/2" (12.7mm)
12:36 PM gloops: ITEM PRICE:
12:36 PM gloops: £53.21
12:39 PM MarcelineVQ: do they tell you what it is?
12:39 PM gloops: yeah
12:39 PM MarcelineVQ: that's good then
12:39 PM gloops: its down 30%
12:39 PM MarcelineVQ: what is?
12:40 PM gloops: Grade: 6082 T6 - a general engineering alloy, strong and resistant to corrosion
12:40 PM gloops: the price has dropped 30% in 2 weeks
12:41 PM gloops: its basically melted down pop cans and tin foil old bike wheels that kind of stuff
12:41 PM MarcelineVQ: 82? that's less common here
12:42 PM gloops: im not really up on varying alloy footprints
12:42 PM gloops: theres little difference in stiffness
12:43 PM roycroft: aluminium can be recycled, as opposed to downcycled, more easily an economically than any other common metal
12:43 PM MarcelineVQ: that's a good price for a 60xx anyway, compared to buying it from a shop
12:43 PM MarcelineVQ: well, here, haha. I shouldn't say in general, others should know better
12:44 PM gloops: yeah i was watching it for a while it was £80+, anyway its in the post - 3 free cuts too, if you want them
12:45 PM MarcelineVQ: got a plan for the peice?
12:45 PM gloops: yeah its my z axis - cut in half
12:47 PM MarcelineVQ: nice and thick for that hehe
12:47 PM MarcelineVQ: actually I forget were you making a router or a plasma
12:47 PM gloops: i tried making some - at 20mm, half inch will be ok - for a router
12:48 PM MarcelineVQ: what's your maximum planned tool dia?
12:48 PM MarcelineVQ: *shank
12:48 PM gloops: hmm not big, 1/4 inch
12:48 PM MarcelineVQ: about the same here, that's plenty of plate for something like that I wold hope
12:49 PM gloops: i think it should be, i am pretty inclined to err on the heavy side after my first attempt at a router
12:49 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm only asking in case it was something more substantial you'd want 7075 or similar for to handle the stressing
12:51 PM gloops: well its an 8 inch drop, surprising how a bit of cutting force is magnified
12:51 PM MarcelineVQ: it sure is
12:52 PM MarcelineVQ: what materials are you going to be cutting?
12:53 PM gloops: you only need 12lbs to push a router with a 1/4 inch cutter, but enter that into a leverage calculator it ends up pretty substantial very quickly
12:54 PM gloops: mixed from mdf to pine, hopefully aluminium as well, but aluminium is not a priority
12:54 PM MarcelineVQ: we may have similar projects going in the future then hoho
12:55 PM gloops: im hoping to be done in a couple of weeks, you might be able to learn from my mistakes heh
12:55 PM MarcelineVQ: not mdf though, that stuff is a horror to work around
12:56 PM gloops: you mean dust wise?
12:56 PM MarcelineVQ: Yes it's quite fine
12:56 PM roycroft: it is nasty stuff
12:56 PM MarcelineVQ: luckily that makes it very vacuumable, when it's not clumping in the tubes
12:56 PM roycroft: and i have a project coming up where i'll be using a lot of it
12:56 PM gloops: yeah not good to inhaling day in day out
12:56 PM gloops: be
12:57 PM roycroft: but i have dust collection!
12:58 PM gloops: the worst stuff is what they use for expansion joints in concrete, i gave someone a hand to cut a load once its terrible
12:58 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm I've not seen that stuff
12:59 PM roycroft: that stuff that's sawdust embedded in asphalt?
12:59 PM MarcelineVQ: afaik they're contraction joints though, concrete shrinks over time. though I suppose it can expand in the heat, everything else does
12:59 PM roycroft: it expands significantly in heat
12:59 PM gloops: not sure what its called, table saw turns it into clouds of dust
01:00 PM roycroft: i've had contractors pour large sidewalk slabs without expansion joints and they crack as soon as it gets hot
01:00 PM gloops: contraction wont crack it, expansion will
01:03 PM gregcnc: it finally happened i downloaded an SW model from McMaster and ti was future version :(
01:04 PM gloops: portland cement doesnt finish curing for about 100 years
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: ChRiS_: buning around you
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: ChRiS_: mor.... ?
01:21 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Very-old-lathe-Sits-on-a-tray-stand-and-is-extremely-heavy/132431593080? this needs a control system
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: ChRiS_: 7i92 PLEASE ? pncconf !
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: im off
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: somebody building a cabin?
02:01 PM gloops: thought about it, my mrs keeps getting pay rises though
02:02 PM Wolfmetalfab is now known as Wolf__
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: lotsa logs in the channel today
02:03 PM gloops: bonus point for knowing what these are for - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-ACE-Router-Cutters/112673920136?
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: can you date them by the phone number?
02:05 PM gloops: maybe an old exchange operator could
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: NORTH = 60 ?
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: or 66
02:07 PM gloops: no idea at all
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: archivist: will know
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: 607 NORth 607 Barnsbury [northern part of central London]
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.dcom.telecom/wAnVke6Roq0
02:10 PM gloops: im from the north of england, we tend to ignore London affairs
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: too silly for you?
02:11 PM gloops: maybe whats called the north/south divide
02:14 PM gloops: there are a few patents registered to sidney r littlejohn, for camera technology
02:15 PM gloops: A constant focus drive apparatus for controlling the positioning of an object and a lens arrangement in a camera system relative to a desired plane so as to keep an image of the object focused in such plane, comprising means e.g. potentiometers for measuring the object and image distances and for producing distance signals representative thereof, drive means e.g. one or more servo systems and/or a manually controlled motor connected
02:15 PM gloops: to the camera system for varying both the object and image distances,
02:15 PM gloops: still going in 1973
02:38 PM roycroft: that's ok, gloops - london ignores the rest of england
02:38 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight went by the fastener place today
02:38 PM Tom_L: sign on the door said closed til new year
02:38 PM Tom_L: go figure
02:39 PM roycroft: it's the slowest time of year for a lot of industrial suppliers
02:39 PM roycroft: closing for a couple or three weeks in december is not all that unusual
02:39 PM Tom_L: it's a one man shop
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: no problem, thanks for checking
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: Thanksgiving til New Years is always a difficult period to get anything done, shorter hours, vacation days, etc
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: shipping delays
02:43 PM Tom_L: doesn't help you any but i'm glad i got the screws i needed
03:04 PM Contract_Pilot: Expensive lesson learnd on the 3phase setup.
03:06 PM gloops: dont switch it off?
03:07 PM Contract_Pilot: So keep drive and change motors or keep motors and change drives.
03:07 PM Contract_Pilot: Maybe the 3DM2283
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20171205-irnas-researchers-3d-print-ear-shaped-vasculature-using-open-source-vitaprint-3d-bioprinter.html hey that looks similar to a ChinaCo $500 cnc router!
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: 2030 cnc
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: http://irnas.eu/vitaprint oh wait, did they use LCNC for control??
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: runs G-code
03:12 PM gregcnc: have tehy been in your lab?
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/symbiolab/Vitaprint_methods/blob/master/Scaffold_building/gelalgi_nose_demo.gcode
03:13 PM gregcnc: wait can I print a few extra arms with this>
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh nnooooooooooooes https://planet-cnc.com/
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: WTF?
03:14 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Looks like USBCNC
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: why why why?
03:15 PM andypugh: Not as Open SOurce as they seem to be claiming.
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: Software is free to use with controllers that have valid license.
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: I'm going to put up a new site soon with all of that with LCNC
03:15 PM gloops: the latest physics unification theory is that there is only one electron in the entire cosmos, but because this electron (or quark) can occupy multiple locations simultaneously, and move back and forth through time, it is in fact, everything there is
03:16 PM gloops: and ever was and ever will be
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: what does these upstarts always have against LCNC?
03:16 PM gregcnc: they want to be separate
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder if the G-code is compatible?
03:17 PM _methods: if they followed rs274ngc............
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/symbiolab/Vitaprint_methods/tree/master/Scaffold_building
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/symbiolab/Vitaprint_methods/blob/master/Scaffold_building/gelalgi_square_demo.gcode
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: M83
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: XYZ might be rs274ngc but the extruder is probably based on repcraps
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code
03:23 PM anonnumberanon: can't find this anywhere: 30mm x 30mm cnc table aluminum
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: small table
03:24 PM gloops: a cat couldnt sleep on that anonn
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: anonnumberanon: I'll sell you an open source one, what thickness?
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: small for a microscope slide
03:24 PM anonnumberanon: I don't know about the thickness yet.
03:25 PM anonnumberanon: fuck I meant 300 x 300
03:25 PM gloops: oh, i thought you did say that
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: yuk, they use E commands for the syringe
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: 30cm x 30cm
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: anonnumberanon: depending on your requirements you can look for some t-slot in alu or steel
03:29 PM gloops: also, dont move the gantry at that scale - move the table
03:29 PM anonnumberanon: my requirements so far is that i want its edges to be machined very precise, the top surface too. That way I can use the table itself to align the rest of the machine.
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Machinist-Surface-Plate-CEK-12-2-35/372158282838
03:32 PM gloops: something you will notice in the cnc builders forums, theyre all eager to claim accuracy of .00 this and that
03:32 PM gloops: but nobody ever states how square their machine is
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: you sound like an elitist :)
03:34 PM anonnumberanon: yeah it seems like a big waste of money if you don't level and square it and end up getting poor results
03:34 PM gloops: how do you measure square over 1 metre x 1 metre?
03:34 PM Tom_L: with a big ruler
03:34 PM gloops: i dont mean to half a mm, i mean to 0.05 or less
03:35 PM Tom_L: put a last word indicator in the spindle and run the axis over the edges
03:35 PM XXCoder: another rock and good height indictor
03:35 PM Tom_L: there are many ways to do it
03:35 PM anonnumberanon: there are many ways to do many things indeed ...
03:36 PM archivist: ask someone with a CMM to measure it
03:36 PM gloops: i dont know anyone with a CMM
03:37 PM XXCoder: if your machine is quite good you can make it into cmm
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: hehe people are selling DXF files on ebay for the tops of welding tables
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: are welders really that dumb?
03:38 PM anonnumberanon: hmm
03:38 PM XXCoder: information that's free is sold on ebay since forever
03:38 PM Wolf__: some maybe
03:40 PM gloops: every crowd has a slver lining
03:44 PM anonnumberanon: gloops, I'm not making parts with a large area, you got a problem with 30cm by 30cm?
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: what did you people do to make projects like Vitaprint use closed source?
03:45 PM gloops: i wouldnt build a 30cm x 30cm
03:45 PM anonnumberanon: yeah but you are you, I am me
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: I wanna know!
03:45 PM Contract_Pilot: So looks like the drives they said yes compatiable are not.
03:46 PM gloops: youve got to make it bigger anonn
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: does my fake outrage come across as sincere?
03:46 PM Contract_Pilot: 3MA2280 or 3DM2283 240V AC Input
03:46 PM gregcnc: I have 30x30 on my frankenmill big enough for the stuff I do
03:47 PM gregcnc: though 30x60cm would be better
03:47 PM anonnumberanon: all i need it for is small robot parts
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: I have a 30x30 and a 30x45
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: once you build the first robot it can build more bigger ones
03:48 PM gloops: well 30x30 is fine if thats what you want
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: I find that you have to start somewhere. Motivation and funding are the bigger hurdles
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: when you don't know what you don't know, it's best just to start
03:49 PM anonnumberanon: also, i don't know what people are doing with these long routers as far as final product goes, and the gantries must flex a lot in the center
03:50 PM gregcnc: right
03:50 PM gloops: what are you going to make anonn?
03:50 PM gregcnc: gantry is the shorter axis
03:51 PM gloops: Capt its an investment, the return per $ invested on a larger machine is more than a smaller machine
03:51 PM anonnumberanon: gloops, small parts
03:51 PM anonnumberanon: with aluminum and carbon fiber
03:51 PM gloops: what parts?
03:51 PM gregcnc: it would suck to build a big machine and have to rebuild it
03:51 PM gregcnc: because you didn't know stuff
03:52 PM anonnumberanon: legs, arms, servo cases
03:52 PM gloops: greg building a small machine doesnt teach you how to build a big one
03:52 PM gregcnc: it will get you 90% there
03:53 PM gloops: and no build is a failure, the machine is an ongoing process of development
03:53 PM gregcnc: doing a good build of anyhting takes either education or iteration
03:53 PM Rab: I built an 18x24" router, and I end up using the same small corner of the table for most work. Now I'm working on a 12x12" (approx. 30x30cm) for both economy and rigidity.
03:53 PM anonnumberanon: and while im making those I'll make parts just to sell to get my money back
03:54 PM anonnumberanon: Rab, what stuff do you make?
03:54 PM gloops: you can cut 20 of those parts on a bogger machine
03:54 PM gloops: bigger
03:54 PM anonnumberanon: that's true i thought of that
03:54 PM Rab: anonnumberanon, mostly milling die cast and plastic enclosures.
03:55 PM anonnumberanon: like this kinda stuff? http://www.budind.com/images/product/large/die-cast-aluminum-enclosure-n4.jpg
03:55 PM Rab: Yep, exactly.
03:56 PM anonnumberanon: that's actually what I would be making since servo cases
03:56 PM gloops: my first router did not work in some ways, however, i was not perturbed
03:56 PM gloops: i designed a bigger stronger machine
03:56 PM gloops: stooping with broken tools and scant resources, i built again!
03:56 PM anonnumberanon: :)
03:58 PM Rab: For that sort of workpiece, you need to add a fixture for each additional piece per run. For small jobs, it's more cost-effective to fixture once and change parts.
04:00 PM archivist: for gears make many on a bar and part off
04:00 PM Rab: If you're e.g. routing parts from flat stock, of course a larger table is desirable.
04:01 PM anonnumberanon: i don't know archivist gears seems like i would buy them instead, I haven't researched it yet, i have absolutely no pointers
04:01 PM anonnumberanon: i did design what the redution would be though
04:02 PM XXCoder: Kiss Net Neutrality goodbye
04:02 PM archivist: anonnumberanon, http://gears.archivist.info/gears/P9190302_500.JPG
04:02 PM anonnumberanon: archivist, The connection was reset
04:02 PM archivist: http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010064_500.jpg
04:03 PM archivist: anonnumberanon, been seeing connection reset here too, dont know what it is yet
04:03 PM anonnumberanon: actually none of your pictures work it's really weird
04:03 PM anonnumberanon: i mean none of your pics work on my browser sigh
04:03 PM archivist: I see some not others
04:03 PM XXCoder: connection was reset
04:04 PM Rab: I can see the gallery: http://gears.archivist.info/gears/
04:04 PM Rab: But the pictures themselves won't load.
04:04 PM archivist: happened a couple of days now
04:04 PM anonnumberanon: same
04:04 PM gloops: they are slow to load
04:04 PM XXCoder: archivist pictures always are slow to load, but this time it isnt loading period.
04:04 PM archivist: slow is adsl from own computer
04:04 PM anonnumberanon: are you running out of bandwidth on your ISP
04:04 PM anonnumberanon: ?
04:05 PM gloops: ahh no, im getting connection reset too
04:05 PM archivist: unlimited package
04:05 PM anonnumberanon: are you getting ddosed?
04:05 PM anonnumberanon: this is a home server?
04:05 PM archivist: but effin BT could be messing me about
04:05 PM XXCoder: or isp caught on to his server and are now blocking
04:05 PM anonnumberanon: XXCoder, that would be illegal but eh
04:06 PM XXCoder: anonnumberanon: not in usa
04:06 PM XXCoder: isps usually have no servers allowed rule
04:06 PM archivist: you can see the html though?
04:06 PM anonnumberanon: what?
04:06 PM archivist: http://gears.archivist.info/gears/index.html
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: getting resets as well here from http://gears.archivist.info/gears/
04:06 PM gloops: thats fine
04:06 PM XXCoder: page is fine for me. pictures all resets
04:07 PM anonnumberanon: what about a wget, does that work?
04:07 PM XXCoder: wget reset
04:07 PM archivist: this connection reset varies per site I browse
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: well if he wasn't ddosed before :)
04:08 PM archivist: load average .42 not a lot going on
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: all your fault for mentioning the neutrality thing :)
04:09 PM XXCoder: yep
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: don't give them ideas
04:09 PM anonnumberanon: have you tried switching it off and on ?
04:09 PM archivist: googling around today, came up with a proxy server error but I dont know where
04:09 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: its already gone they voted it out 2 days ago
04:09 PM archivist: anonnumberanon, er yes
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: shshss
04:10 PM anonnumberanon: archivist, oh well, I've already seen a few of your pics the other day, are they expensive for you to make?
04:11 PM anonnumberanon: im asking in terms of time and nb 2: money
04:11 PM XXCoder: this is from country that never had any https://i.huffpost.com/gen/1567010/original.jpg
04:11 PM archivist: it takes a while to setup
04:11 PM gloops: ill make stuff like this with my router https://i.pinimg.com/736x/94/4b/a4/944ba4ca5852b0f66c2b4e704a53bcb2.jpg
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: see greed is good
04:12 PM anonnumberanon: gloops, ah okay then it becomes worth doing
04:12 PM archivist: I could see both those images, but not others...wtf
04:13 PM archivist: damned annoying
04:13 PM XXCoder: archivist: I wonder if youre getting hit with reset ddos
04:13 PM XXCoder: well im out laters
04:13 PM anonnumberanon: would be nice to check log of the connections coming at it
04:13 PM archivist: how to detect that
04:14 PM XXCoder: theres network analyst freewares but need to go now cant remember name
04:14 PM anonnumberanon: if it's linux machine there is a command to see ssh attempt with IPs and other things
04:15 PM anonnumberanon: I'm very sure that for any other ports such as the one for http for your server, you have a similar command
04:15 PM anonnumberanon: actually for the ssh one it's not a command it's just the connection history file
04:16 PM anonnumberanon: access.log
04:16 PM anonnumberanon: for Apache
04:16 PM anonnumberanon: /var/log/apach2/access.log
04:21 PM Deejay: gn8
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: " ultrafast cooling rate—1000°C per second to 100 million °C per second" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369702117304625
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: trying to find an open version of the doc
04:28 PM andypugh: I was at a little show at work where a chap was saying that metal parts made by SLM were mechanically superior to conventional castings.
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20171211-new-slm-3d-printing-technique-can-produce-strong-ductile-stainless-steel-parts.html
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: like your idea about varying the alloys composition this also introduces extremely fast cooling
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: to vary the ductility
05:24 PM JT-Shop: nice I got the final payment on a job... nice to get the profit from a job
05:30 PM Tom_L: cash in hand is always good
05:31 PM JT-Shop: it's cash in hand tomorrow lol
05:31 PM JT-Shop: it was a very good job :)
05:32 PM JT-Shop: got a much bigger job at hand now that will be very profitable :) things are looking up
05:35 PM * JT-Shop wanders inside to relax
06:02 PM Contract_Pilot: Insanity is trying all these diffrent configs over and over...
06:03 PM Contract_Pilot: Sometimes it will spin some times just stalls
06:05 PM CaptHindsight: do you fully understand how the configs work?
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: can you break down the problems you are having into smaller pieces and debug them step by step?
06:07 PM Tom_L: ok since i've never used slides before how loose should they be? if set on end will they slide by themselves?
06:07 PM Contract_Pilot: https://youtu.be/wlBR0koQE68
06:07 PM Contract_Pilot: Just the Z axis motor
06:08 PM Tom_L: just trying to get an idea how much force it should normally take to move one
06:08 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: what type of slide?
06:08 PM Tom_L: those square linear slides 20mm wide
06:08 PM malcom2073: Contract_Pilot: That's moving awfully fast for a nema42
06:08 PM malcom2073: You've verified your voltage is high enough to run that fast?
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: TYPE = LINEAR
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: MAX_VELOCITY = 1.0
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: MAX_JOG_VELOCITY_UPS = 1.0
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: MIN_JOG_VELOCITY_UPS = 0.008333
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: STEPGEN_MAX_VEL = 1.0
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 15.0
06:09 PM Contract_Pilot: STEP_SCALE = -16933.333
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: have a link or pic?
06:09 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Square-Linear-Rail-400-700-1000mm-Ballscrew-SFU1605-400-700-1000mm-BK-BF12/162777934309?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49451%26meid%3D9f51c8a17a0949a09937438dc6a8ebd0%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D192126115373&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%253A2d0655e6-e12c-11e7-a602-74dbd180aa15%257Cparentrq%253A5780db831600aa47cd8d9eafffec8192%257Ciid%253A1
06:10 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: ball bearings? polymer bearings?
06:10 PM Tom_L: ball
06:10 PM CaptHindsight: they should easily move with just gravity
06:10 PM CaptHindsight: cold grease will slow them a bit
06:11 PM Tom_L: right
06:11 PM CaptHindsight: and good ones will sound smooth, unlike there is sand in them
06:12 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:12 PM CaptHindsight: woosh vs crunchy
06:12 PM Tom_L: i'll clean em up and put some light oil on them before i start to align em
06:12 PM Tom_L: are they hard to get back together?
06:13 PM CaptHindsight: just don't loose any balls
06:13 PM Tom_L: right
06:13 PM Tom_L: i have a source here for ball bearings depending on the size
06:13 PM Tom_L: in fact i have a drawer full of assorted sizes
06:14 PM Tom_L: would you recomend taking them apart to clean before use?
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: the Chinese are well adept at making bearings with flats
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: are they dirty or just with flats or out of round?
06:15 PM Tom_L: i don't know that anything is wrong yet
06:15 PM Tom_L: just looking ahead and planning
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: from China all bets are off
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: if they are from US or Japan then use as is
06:15 PM Tom_L: i can always mic the balls and get new ones
06:16 PM Tom_L: i'll see how free they are
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: Chinaco often feel and sound like the bearings on compound slide miter saws
06:17 PM Tom_L: i know what quality sounds like so i'll be aware or beware :)
06:18 PM Tom_L: it'll be a while before i need them anyway
06:27 PM Contract_Pilot: This lathe is running the thompson they seem to work good
06:27 PM CaptHindsight: heh lose makes loose
06:41 PM Contract_Pilot: 72V
07:09 PM Wolf__: malcom2073: ping
07:09 PM malcom2073: Wolf__: Sup?
07:09 PM Wolf__: find anything out on the lathe parts?
07:10 PM malcom2073: Oh, yeah he already got rid of the screw, and it was all metric anyway
07:10 PM malcom2073: So no, not really any spare parts, he's gotten rid of most everything except what he needs for the cnc conversion
07:10 PM Wolf__: damn
07:11 PM Wolf__: Contract_Pilot: guess I need that screw ya have lol
08:38 PM Crom_: when it rains it pours. I have 3 cars down right now. 2 for headgaskets -- radiators, 1 for Transmission
08:39 PM Crom_: So I have the Honda Odyssey in the Shop, I'm working on the S10 pulling the head, and the Cadillac is sitting in the driveway until the Honda comes out of the shop
08:40 PM * jym hands Crom_ some roller skates and a jet engine
08:40 PM Crom_: My Buddy got his HF RungFu 31 clone in. Now We're tooling it up. Once all the cars are fixed, if I have enough money left, I'll get the CNCfusion XYZ kit
08:41 PM Crom_: for my X2, and then I can make parts to CNC his RF-31
08:42 PM Crom_: One of my miniITX boxes will be his Linuxcnc machine.
08:44 PM Crom_: Heh.. We just went shopping online for groceries. They delivered...
08:45 PM Crom_: Tuesday My wife has a doctors appointment 2 hours away, so she'll be renting a Enterprise car.
08:45 PM Crom_: Though I may have the Honda Back Monday night... Fingers Crossed!
09:29 PM jdh: you need an already converted G0704
10:50 PM Contract_Pilot: Wolf check PM
10:50 PM Contract_Pilot: I am excited... found the issue...think somthing is loose in the motor.
10:56 PM MarcelineVQ: that's rough
10:56 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, would turn some then stall..
10:56 PM Contract_Pilot: would work at low speed.
10:59 PM anonnumberanon: too ghetto to level the cnc table or not? https://www.amazon.com/Aluminium-Inclinometers-Surveying-Instruments-%C3%9860mm/dp/B00X2EI1IE/ref=sr_1_63?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1513284230&sr=1-63&keywords=level
11:00 PM MarcelineVQ: anonnumberanon: it'll level the spot it's sitting on
11:00 PM anonnumberanon: oh heh that's right
11:01 PM MarcelineVQ: for myself it's going to have to be enough to flycut the table with the router, whether that's appropriate for you depends on what you have in mind for tolerances
11:03 PM anonnumberanon: what do you mean by flycutting?
11:03 PM MarcelineVQ: I can pretend my table is level by leveling it with the machine's actual cutting. though that's not really level, it's just on a particular plane.
11:03 PM anonnumberanon: after you level and square everything you scrap a bit of the top off your table?
11:03 PM MarcelineVQ: and it's only as precise as your machine is hehe
11:04 PM MarcelineVQ: that's the plan for now
11:04 PM MarcelineVQ: will have to re-evalute this on later designs after trying it
11:04 PM anonnumberanon: this will be your first cnc?
11:05 PM MarcelineVQ: Yep
11:05 PM anonnumberanon: I'm still trying to evaluate the tolerances I need.
11:05 PM anonnumberanon: Can yyou help with that?
11:05 PM anonnumberanon: I have a project in mind.
11:06 PM MarcelineVQ: dunno, give it a try
11:07 PM anonnumberanon: I want to make this, and the length of the part is about 50mm, width is about 20mm.
11:07 PM anonnumberanon: https://imgur.com/a/YbXKX
11:07 PM Contract_Pilot: On Long Lathe's How do you all do your homing?
11:09 PM anonnumberanon: this picture is actually to scale on a 15.6" screen with 1080p :)
11:12 PM MarcelineVQ: it's a little big on mine then :> about 65mm long
11:16 PM anonnumberanon: Your part is?
11:16 PM MarcelineVQ: your part is
11:17 PM anonnumberanon: Oh haha
11:17 PM anonnumberanon: So what do u think?
11:17 PM anonnumberanon: Its a gearbos it will have tiny metal gears in it
11:18 PM anonnumberanon: And bearings
11:18 PM MarcelineVQ: looks neat, I'm not sure what you're asking me though
11:18 PM anonnumberanon: I suppose the bearing od tolerance from the factory is what i need to know?
11:19 PM anonnumberanon: What tolerance i need my cnc to achieve is the question.
11:28 PM anonnumberanon: Nothing?
11:32 PM MarcelineVQ: Not really sure how to approach that for someone else. A text like Machinery's Handbook can help quite a bit since you can find out about material flex which is important for knowing how you want your machine to go together. The trouble, on a first home-made machine, is probably going to be getting preise enough to make that smooth curves on the part, which at this point I don't know much about
11:38 PM MarcelineVQ: the smooth curves I mean are the ones that rise, since there's only a small part of a ball-end mill that does the cutting so you need a smooth and precise step down each pass
11:50 PM anonnumberanon: Oh i only need the holes inside to be good, the outside curves are functional
11:51 PM anonnumberanon: Are NOT functional.