#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 11 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:04 AM IchGucksLive: hi
12:15 AM gloops: morning
02:12 AM Deejay: moin
02:38 AM Wolf__: morning Deejay
03:38 AM XXCoder: boo
04:41 AM XXCoder: https://futurism.com/uk-woman-extra-cone-cell-her-eyes-can-see-more-colors/
04:41 AM XXCoder: referring to earlier chat about colors
05:22 AM jthornton: morning
05:23 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:24 AM XXCoder: check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJlttIL2PSs man its been a while but that still pisses me off
06:01 AM rebecca: thinking of getting this set of rails/slides/screws: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6-sets-linear-rail-HBH20-L400-1000-1400mm-SFU1605-400-1000-1400-1400mm-ball-screw-4/32843557105.html
06:03 AM XXCoder: not bad
06:03 AM XXCoder: 400 1000 and 14000
06:03 AM XXCoder: zero too many at last one but yeah
06:03 AM rebecca: 1400*
06:03 AM rebecca: yeah :)
06:04 AM rebecca: it will be a big machine for my little workshop. but it should fit
06:04 AM Tom_L: i just got a 400 700 1000 off ebay recently
06:05 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Square-Linear-Rail-400-700-1000mm-Ballscrew-SFU1605-400-700-1000mm-BK-BF12/162777934309?hash=item25e65229e5:g:UnAAAOSwFiJZ5B~H
06:06 AM rebecca: i think i will construct the body with CNC cut and generously layered 17mm formply
06:06 AM rebecca: how did it work out for you Tom_L ?
06:06 AM Tom_L: still in the box
06:07 AM rebecca: oh, Rattm! they make one of the ATC spindles i have been eyeing off
06:07 AM rebecca: ahh
06:08 AM Tom_L: they look ok for china
06:08 AM rebecca: cool
06:08 AM archivist: I would not use proper slides like those on ply
06:10 AM rebecca: because of tolerances causing mechanical problems?
06:12 AM archivist: ply is not really suitable for machine tools, sbr16 is a similar quality to ply
06:13 AM archivist: those better rails are meant to be mounted on steel/cast iron
06:15 AM rebecca: hmmm, even if it's all CNC cut resin sealed ply with lots of lamination / gusseting / tabbed construction?
06:16 AM rebecca: i have seen some of those SBR16 have a lot of play
06:17 AM archivist: sbr has adjustment
06:17 AM rebecca: hmmm ok
06:18 AM archivist: just seems a bit odd to me to use and expensive rail on wood
06:19 AM rebecca: just want to eliminate play/slop where possible
06:19 AM rebecca: don't want to mill steel, but alu would be nice
06:20 AM XXCoder: I wondered if SBR can do alum milling
06:20 AM XXCoder: I still have useless kit here lol
06:21 AM rebecca: archivist: do you envision the lack of tolerance causing problems or just want to spare me spending more than needed?
06:27 AM rebecca: i'm trying to put together a CNC for commercial sign making and small cabinetry duty.
06:28 AM XXCoder: nice
06:28 AM XXCoder: im in cnc hobby for shit and giggles
06:28 AM rebecca: cool :)
06:28 AM XXCoder: unfortunately with no room im stuck in hatius
06:28 AM rebecca: awww
06:28 AM XXCoder: yeah. big problems have to be fixed first.
06:30 AM rebecca: i used to operate large CNC routers. got injured and been out of work. really loved that kind of work, so i'm starting my own business.
06:30 AM XXCoder: nice
06:31 AM XXCoder: I work at shop, I usually run cell
06:31 AM rebecca: oooh, with fancy enclosed CNC mills?
06:32 AM XXCoder: 2 of em, with pallet transport system and centeral computer
06:32 AM rebecca: neat
06:32 AM XXCoder: theres bunch cheaper and non-pallet system cnc machines there also lol
06:32 AM XXCoder: I guess theres umm 30 machines?
06:33 AM XXCoder: 40 if lathes is included
06:33 AM XXCoder: having that many lathes is pretty rare for cnc shops apparently
06:33 AM rebecca: okay
06:34 AM XXCoder: they are still working on really fancy lathe machine that can do both sides on single run
06:34 AM XXCoder: have tool arrays, on both sides as well as more typical tools type system
06:34 AM rebecca: oh, flip the part in the work holder?
06:34 AM XXCoder: it does that itself
06:35 AM rebecca: niiiice
06:35 AM XXCoder: just grip with other end while it cuts it off
06:35 AM XXCoder: then finish other side
06:35 AM rebecca: what kind of things do you manufacture?
06:35 AM XXCoder: I wonder how expensive it is. lol it also has over 10 feet long rod handler
06:35 AM XXCoder: many stuff really I dont know most stuff I make is for
06:36 AM rebecca: metal comes in, mystery parts go out?
06:37 AM XXCoder: yep lol
06:38 AM rebecca: i should head to bed
06:39 AM rebecca: hope your hiatus ends soon XXCoder
06:39 AM XXCoder: it probably wont for over a year
06:39 AM XXCoder: no money to build shop when fixing house
06:40 AM rebecca: ok
06:40 AM rebecca: ahhhh
06:40 AM rebecca: sounds like a worthwhile diversion though
06:40 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:42 AM rebecca: catch you later. i'll be around. i'm on a mission to build my machine and this seems to me the most lively forum for cnc chats
06:42 AM XXCoder: later
06:45 AM archivist: I was in another room filling gaps around a window
06:45 AM XXCoder: rebecca:
06:46 AM XXCoder: I need to seal my room windows
06:47 AM XXCoder: maybe plastic sheets something dunno
06:47 AM XXCoder: weatherizing windows
07:51 AM nallar is now known as Ross
08:09 AM Contract_Pilot: Morning
09:11 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: i have seen snow in NY
09:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi herbert__
09:41 AM herbert__: Hey there! I want to drive a 18000RPM spindle with the 0-10V signal and my scale is thus 0.0005V/RPM. How do I figure if my BOB can do that resolution or is it necessary to ensure that the BOB can be that precise?
09:42 AM IchGucksLive: i think the VFD needds to be more precice then the PWM
09:42 AM IchGucksLive: if its a Hyanyang it starts at 8k rpm to get in
09:42 AM herbert__: IchGucksLive: hitachi wj200 5.5kw
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: and the fakes you may get somthing within 15%
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: this might have a modebus to control
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: better then 0-10
09:43 AM herbert__: IchGucksLive: sure, but it is a lot of work to get started with modbus if you have never even touched that chapter :D
09:43 AM IchGucksLive: you can e shure the port will take that HZ pricice
09:44 AM IchGucksLive: so then it is a easy 4wirer RUN
09:45 AM IchGucksLive: herbert__: german https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km3kIVpDLmc
09:45 AM herbert__: IchGucksLive: merci
09:46 AM IchGucksLive: en https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpb9JUaWl7M
09:47 AM nallar is now known as Ross
09:56 AM anonnumberanon: Tom_L, nice kit
09:59 AM herbert__: what configuration would I use for a 3 axis XZA (no Y!) machine in stepconf?
09:59 AM herbert__: can I just use the XYZA defaults and remove everything connected to the Y axis?
10:00 AM archivist: edit afterwards
10:01 AM gregcnc: out of curiosity, what kind of machine is XZA?
10:01 AM archivist: fishing rod etc
10:02 AM archivist: round carving
10:02 AM herbert__: milling lasts for shoemaking ;)
10:03 AM herbert__: for example: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/bzt-maschinenbau-gmbh/product-100873-1390781.html
10:04 AM gregcnc: ah ok
10:09 AM archivist: is that a dremel I spy in that expensive box
10:11 AM archivist: I have seen a far more rigid wooden float making machine, it pushed square rod through a rotating collet then had the cutter just outside the collet
10:11 AM archivist: well grinder it was working on balsa
10:12 AM gregcnc: sliding headstock
10:12 AM herbert__: the expensive box is so expensive that we decided to build one ourselfs, hence the dealing with linuxcnc ;)
10:12 AM archivist: more pusher, it could not retract
10:12 AM herbert__: I have no clue what is inside there.
10:14 AM archivist: those bars look too long in that expensive box
10:19 AM herbert__: I am slowly overwhelmed with the ~1500pages of manuals that I am going through. Is there amore compact howto for wiring and driving linuxcnc+BOB+VFD+spindle? it seems such a standard application but I can not find a simple manual for that :D
10:19 AM archivist: so many variations available :)
10:20 AM herbert__: :)
10:20 AM Loetmichel: archivist: unless dremel now has ER11 collets: nope, no dremel ;)
10:21 AM herbert__: actually, to have an active irc channel is actually the best support one can get.
10:21 AM herbert__: It's cool to have you all here :)
10:21 AM archivist: I am wondering for show lasts is that way round is wrong
10:22 AM archivist: I might use a saw blade to get more cutting edges
10:22 AM archivist: turn the spindle 90 deg
10:27 AM McBride36 is now known as Guest4668
10:29 AM Guest4668 is now known as McBride36
11:02 AM roycroft: i have a foredom flex shaft tool
11:02 AM roycroft: it costs a lot of money
11:02 AM roycroft: but dremels burn up in seconds
11:03 AM roycroft: i am sure i've invested more in dremels over the years than the foredom tool cost me
11:03 AM roycroft: and i've had the foredom tool for at least 6-7 years now, and use it frequently
11:03 AM roycroft: a dremel is a nice thing for a homeowner to have in box in the garage
11:04 AM roycroft: as long as it stays in the box and never gets used
11:04 AM archivist: I used a dremel daily at the clockworks, not all bad
11:05 AM archivist: killed a couple in about 10 years
11:05 AM roycroft: i suppose it depends on how you use them
11:05 AM roycroft: if you're doing a lot of pecking operations, i.e. inline wit the axis of rotation, they are probably fine
11:05 AM roycroft: but put any side load on the things and they get hot and die
11:05 AM archivist: one a segment fell off the commutator at full speed, the other was a speed controller fault
11:06 AM * roycroft has had horrible luck with them
11:06 AM roycroft: the foredom handpieces are also a lot more comfortable to use than a dremel
11:06 AM roycroft: so there's that
11:18 AM dave__ is now known as gloops
11:26 AM roycroft: i need some drill guides for not heavy use, and there's no local vendor who carries proper drill guides, but i can get sleeve bearings
11:26 AM roycroft: i'm thinking that high load bronze bearings would be more durable than cast iron when used for drill guides
11:26 AM roycroft: is that correct?
11:35 AM archivist: had to rack brains to remember where I last used a guide http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010224.JPG
11:35 AM archivist: was a bit of brass by the look of it
11:37 AM roycroft: i need to bore a number of fairly precisely located holes in some mdf, and the parts are too big to practically put on a drill press
11:37 AM roycroft: so i thought i'd make a little jig
11:39 AM roycroft: the holes need to be metric (12mm), and that presents another problem, but i figure i can get some 7/16" id bushings, bore to 15/32", and then ream to 12mm
11:39 AM * roycroft decides not to go on another why the hell are we the only major country in the world who aren't metric rant today :)
11:41 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Engineers-Bench-Belt-Driven-Lathe/263367467960? these were reputedly decent little lathes
11:41 AM gloops: shame half of it is missing
11:48 AM hazzy: I think the stock condition description is a bit misleading here :D
11:48 AM hazzy: "An item that has been previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended ...."
11:49 AM archivist: found in the shed rest went in the skip
11:51 AM gloops: archivist just what you want - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GHA-Model-S0-Tool-Milling-Cutter-Grinding-Radius-Grinding-Machine/202136528220?
11:51 AM archivist: I want my 450 too
11:51 AM gloops: the little john would be ok for someone for spares, if you did find someone breaking one theyd want stupid money for the missing parts
11:53 AM gloops: cheap - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Believed-to-be-a-machine-index-workhead-approx-80mm-chuck-and-indexing-plates/322932690571?
11:53 AM archivist: quorn cutter grinder maybe one day
11:57 AM archivist: best quorn I have seen http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_10_18_Model_Engineer_Radford/IMG_1372.JPG
11:58 AM gloops: looks new, make one
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:05 PM archivist: gloops, thinking of that divider thing reminds me of http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchv4page=1&searchstr=pd+chaser
12:18 PM JT-Shop: Yippee! brought a quote to a customer and came home with a check in my pocket
12:19 PM * Jymmm prefers cash in hand, but... ;)
12:28 PM JT-Shop: now quickbooks is forcing me to setup sensitive data protection :(
12:28 PM gloops: not seen one of those before archivist
12:29 PM gloops: well a cheque is good, they can be a pain in the ass here nowadays - but money is money
12:32 PM JT-Shop: why a pain in the ass?
12:35 PM Tom_L: depends if it's made out of rubber or backed with gold
12:36 PM gloops: JT-Shop there no bank branch in my village anymore
12:36 PM gloops: so 8 mile drive, park - pay to park, walk accross town, deposit cheque etc
12:37 PM gloops: few shops take them anymore
12:37 PM gregcnc: can't deposit from phone?
12:37 PM Tom_L: i've started doing that some
12:37 PM gloops: not tried by phone, didnt know you could
12:37 PM gloops: you can post them of course
12:37 PM Tom_L: but everybody wants a free cut of my profit
12:38 PM Tom_L: yeah there are quite a few of those around nowdays
12:39 PM Tom_L: the one i use will swipe, chip or phone
12:39 PM gloops: what about the signature?
12:40 PM gregcnc: sign, take pic through their app
12:40 PM Tom_L: just like any place that takes credit, sign on the phone touchpad
12:40 PM Tom_L: signatures are a joke nowdays anyway
12:40 PM Tom_L: nobody checks to make sure it's really you
12:41 PM gregcnc: yeah, maybe they'd check if you ended up in court
12:42 PM gloops: credit transfer, paypal etc
12:44 PM gloops: cheques to be phased out in UK 2018 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8414341.stm
12:54 PM Tom_L: 62°F
12:56 PM JT-Shop: yea my bank I can deposit with my phone but I don't do that, I rather go in person and get a purple sucker
12:56 PM Tom_L: i like the white mints better
01:00 PM JT-Shop: I hate being on hold with loud scratchy music that gives me a headache
01:14 PM gloops: well, i got enough steel left over to build a wood lathe, and 2 ballscrews, be stupid not to
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
02:20 PM anonnumberanon: gloops this is a bad thing they they want to remove checks
02:22 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: yeah
02:22 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: note the date on that story
02:23 PM gloops: yes well spotted SpeedEvil, i was wondering if anyone would see that
02:25 PM gloops: anonn cheques are obsolete really
02:26 PM gloops: paper money will soon be obsolete
02:26 PM Deejay: bitcoin ftw!
02:26 PM anonnumberanon: cheque is slower cash and can't be robbed
02:26 PM anonnumberanon: remove the above 2 and you are force to use a machine to pay someone (transfers)
02:27 PM gloops: the days when people used to settle bills at the end of the month are over
02:27 PM anonnumberanon: :) i want them to come back
02:28 PM anonnumberanon: that smiley was supposed to be a sad face
02:28 PM gloops: im afraid we were born at the wrong time anonn
02:28 PM gloops: life moves at a faster pace now
02:29 PM anonnumberanon: oh! don't say that!
02:29 PM anonnumberanon: living in 2017 is fun
02:29 PM anonnumberanon: you can make so much fun with accessible distribution chains for any parts you may want
02:29 PM anonnumberanon: it's great for an engineer
02:30 PM anonnumberanon: Internet that holds your hand no matter what your enterprise is
02:31 PM gloops: yes a lot of hustle and bustle
02:35 PM anonnumberanon: amazon that tells you what other items you need with the one you are getting
02:35 PM anonnumberanon: it's literally dad's advice
02:35 PM gloops: before people could get all these things - they didnt need them
02:35 PM anonnumberanon: that has changed
02:36 PM gloops: what do you need, really?
02:37 PM anonnumberanon: To live long and prosper.
02:38 PM anonnumberanon: \.|\./|
02:39 PM anonnumberanon: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Leonard_Nimoy_by_Gage_Skidmore_2.jpg/1200px-Leonard_Nimoy_by_Gage_Skidmore_2.jpg
02:44 PM gloops: logic is handy, but not applicable to certain problems
02:45 PM anonnumberanon: for those other problems, fall back onto Vulcan martial arts and psychic abilities
02:51 PM anonnumberanon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dusN8HcwGWg
02:51 PM anonnumberanon: should I just use my angle grinder?
02:52 PM anonnumberanon: 1/4 " steel, 1/2 " aluminum plate, some of it curved
02:52 PM anonnumberanon: angle grinder is all i have
02:52 PM anonnumberanon: oh and sawzall but i hate how it doesn't make straight cuts
02:56 PM gloops: 9 inch grinder?
02:59 PM anonnumberanon: thats what you need? mine must be 4 inch or 5. It's a dewalt
02:59 PM gloops: ahh
03:00 PM gloops: much steel is there?
03:01 PM anonnumberanon: enough for a small cnc machine frame
03:02 PM gloops: 1/4 inch wall steel?
03:03 PM anonnumberanon: probably, still researching what people are doing atm
03:04 PM gloops: well you want some slitting discs, or cutting discs, the thin ones, they cut better, dont bother with a grinding disc
03:04 PM gloops: some people reccomend the diamond discs for cutting but ive never used them
03:07 PM anonnumberanon: actually that video i put turns out to be pretty informative
03:11 PM gloops: yes the bandsaw is the tool of choice, i dont cut enough steel to warrant owning one though
03:13 PM gloops: you will get it with 4.5 inch grinder, steady job, 9 inch grinder is a dangerous tool anyway
03:49 PM MarcelineVQ: I really liked my 4.5 until it melted, I've got a 7 but it's just way too much machine
03:56 PM PanicSkittle_ is now known as PanicSkittle
03:58 PM jason_ is now known as Guest82335
04:02 PM Deejay: gn8
05:38 PM JT-Shop: damn browsers are just f--king broke and a pia
05:39 PM JT-Shop: all this hover over select and copy shit makes them unusable
05:47 PM rebecca: wut?
05:48 PM MarcelineVQ: and that's when websites aren't injecting their own text into what you copied :(
05:49 PM JT-Shop: yea so much crap these days to deal with
05:50 PM rebecca: fight back. protest. cancel your internet connection!
05:50 PM rebecca: ;)
05:52 PM JT-Shop: damn that light I have on the 870 riot gun is bright, just had an intruder alarm and it must have been a leaf
05:52 PM MarcelineVQ: well you can shut off JS which nukes half the garbage you have to deal with, it also makes plenty of websites not work though
05:53 PM SpeedEvil: JT-Shop: Did you kill it?
05:53 PM JT-Shop: didn't want to waste good buck shot on a leaf
05:54 PM JT-Shop: MarcelineVQ: I think it is the browser "features"
05:55 PM MarcelineVQ: if you can speak js/css then browsers liek vivaldi let you customize away such features, but js isn't quite my cup of tea, and css is the most arcane thing (that people actually use) I've yet seen in my lifetime
05:56 PM JT-Shop: I speak css but not js
05:56 PM JT-Shop: https://www.streamlight.com/products/detail/index/tlr-1
05:56 PM JT-Shop: that's the light I'm impressed with how bright it is at night
05:58 PM MarcelineVQ: it's speakable, but did the paragraph you spoke actually mean what you wanted to say? that's the issue I tend to have with it, hehe
05:58 PM MarcelineVQ: super bright and just 6v too?
05:59 PM JT-Shop: dunno language being such a difficult thing to use to transmit thoughts
06:01 PM JT-Shop: time to cook up some chow
06:32 PM anonnumberanon: when you tap a hole with a "decent" tapping tool, does it sometimes get tapped wrong or is it somewhat foolproof?
06:34 PM gregcnc: things can still go wrong, but less likely with a proper tap
06:35 PM cradek: what do you mean wrong?
06:36 PM cradek: (what do you mean tapping tool?)
06:36 PM MarcelineVQ: what do you mean foolproof? :> a good enough fool can get around the best proof
06:36 PM rebecca: hehe
06:37 PM cradek: the most frequent wrongly-tapped hole is one with half a tap stuck permanently in it
06:37 PM gregcnc: the question should be: how do i tap xx thread, in to xx material, with xx equipment, xx number of times
06:37 PM roycroft: tapping a hole properly is more a function of the tap operator than the tap
06:40 PM gregcnc: most Z travel in a Taig ever? https://www.instagram.com/p/BckGHP2n3ph/
06:41 PM anonnumberanon: haha
06:41 PM cradek: what one arth
06:41 PM anonnumberanon: by "going wrong" i mean anything that will make a new bolt enter with noticeable difficulty, as well as not straight
06:42 PM gregcnc: hand tapping?
06:42 PM anonnumberanon: which is best? i feel like i would suck more with a hand tap
06:42 PM anonnumberanon: i have human hands unfortunately
06:43 PM roycroft: use a tap guide if you don't think you can line it up straight
06:43 PM cradek: it's also very useful to use your milling machine or drill press to line up the tap, even if hand tapping
06:43 PM roycroft: the two problems you'll encounter when hand tapping is having the tap not concentric to the hole you're tapping, and chips clogging up the hole
06:44 PM cradek: hand tap wrenches have a dent in the back center for that purpose
06:44 PM anonnumberanon: cradek, uhm, what?
06:44 PM anonnumberanon: use the press but hand tap?
06:44 PM roycroft: the former can be handled by leaving the part in the drill press/mill after drilling the hole and then chucking the tap up in the drill press/mill and turning it by hand to start the tap
06:44 PM cradek: after you drill the hole, leave the work in place, put a springy center in the drill chuck, use it to line up the tap
06:44 PM roycroft: or use a drill guide and a tap guide if you're doing it freehand
06:45 PM roycroft: the second problem can be handled by backing the tap out periodically to break up and remove the chips
06:45 PM anonnumberanon: ah okay i see
06:45 PM cradek: you still haven't told us what you're tapping or with what
06:45 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/V-Tap-Guide-Standard-sizes-0-80/dp/B000ZN30U4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1513039513&sr=8-4&keywords=tap+guide
06:45 PM roycroft: something like that is useful for hand tapping
06:45 PM roycroft: s/is/can be/
06:46 PM roycroft: i'm not tapping anything at the moment
06:46 PM roycroft: it's anonnumberanon who is asking about tapping
06:46 PM gregcnc: right we know
06:46 PM cradek: yeah :-)
06:46 PM roycroft: oh, sorry, i misread a line
06:47 PM roycroft: your comment ended at the end of a line
06:47 PM roycroft: and the next line was my pasting a long url
06:47 PM roycroft: which displayed as my nick on one line, and the url on the next
06:47 PM roycroft: i thought you were ending your statement by addressing me
06:47 PM cradek: that guide looks nice to have
06:48 PM cradek: although I've always just drilled a hole in something
06:48 PM roycroft: yeah, i don't have one, but it could be useful
06:48 PM cradek: some I even got fancy and stamped the tap size on them and kept them
06:48 PM roycroft: there are a couple other issues that can come up with hand tapping
06:48 PM roycroft: you have to apply even rotational pressure on the tap
06:48 PM anonnumberanon: i mean for alignment of steel and aluminum i figured i wanted to increase my chances of getting it right without having to make adjustments so that's why i want to drill and tap right
06:49 PM roycroft: don't push down on it or you'll tend to push to one side
06:49 PM roycroft: and when you do that you will suddenly hear an ominous crackling sound
06:49 PM roycroft: you'll think you can get the tap out, but it's game over at that point
06:50 PM MarcelineVQ: I wonder if there's an advantage, or glaring disadvantage, to a threaded tap guide
06:50 PM anonnumberanon: just weld up the hole and grind the top to a smooth polish, and don't tell anyone what happened
06:50 PM roycroft: also make sure you use the proper type of tap
06:50 PM cradek: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?s=8869e40d02a6d14c22473a60d4f67e13&p=3491929&postcount=6
06:50 PM cradek: if this link works, that's the device I was talking about
06:51 PM cradek: if you look at that thread there are lots of similar schemes
06:51 PM roycroft: there are starter taps, plug taps, and bottom taps
06:51 PM roycroft: you will only ever use a bottom tap to finish tapping a blind hole, and you cannot start threading with a bottom tap
06:51 PM cradek: whenever possible, drill all the way through and use a spiral point
06:51 PM roycroft: a starter tap is best to use for beginners
06:51 PM cradek: it is 10x better than the next best thing
06:52 PM roycroft: it has a very long taper and starts cutting threads very gently
06:52 PM cradek: if you're designing the part, think in the design stage about making it easy to tap
06:52 PM roycroft: a plug tap is the most common, and has less of a taper than a starter tap, but enough of a taper to start fresh threads
06:52 PM anonnumberanon: im asking a lot of questions because my ego took a big dip that day i tried to drill through a 3/8 " exhaust flange (through a bolt that went through it actually)
06:52 PM anonnumberanon: i used a big dewalt wired drill too
06:52 PM cradek: also tap as early as possible so if you break a tap in the work you can toss it and start over and not feel bad at all
06:53 PM roycroft: yes, it's good practise when machining to try to do the scariest bits first
06:53 PM cradek: and BUY NAME BRAND TAPS
06:53 PM cradek: don't buy sears or harbor freight garbage
06:53 PM MarcelineVQ: china taps will cause divorces
06:53 PM roycroft: where the brand is printed in english :)
06:54 PM anonnumberanon: (the flange here in the middle) http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/2004_p71/media/cGF0aDpleGhhdXN0IHN5c3RlbS9EU0MwOTkxNl96cHNhY2NmNDgyYi5qcGc=/?ref=
06:54 PM roycroft: perhaps the biggest thing you can learn to tap holes successfully is to have patience
06:54 PM roycroft: do not rush tapping
06:54 PM roycroft: go very slowly
06:54 PM roycroft: use plent of the appropriate lubrication
06:54 PM roycroft: and go slowly
06:58 PM cradek: you tried to drill out a rusted-in-place-and-broken-off bolt?
06:58 PM cradek: that can be hard
07:00 PM MarcelineVQ: someone pressed a bunch of 9/16 hex nuts onto the shanks of this old tap set, wonder what he was using to drive them, some tiny die holder?
07:00 PM anonnumberanon: yes, and i ended up putting the angle grinder to the side of the hole ear and it came right off, the slit created by the angle grinder did not preclude me from using new bolts through the hole so i was happy
07:01 PM anonnumberanon: bolt was not broken off, the head was just gone
07:01 PM cradek: lucky it didn't have an ez-out stuck in it
07:01 PM cradek: that's usually what happens :-)
07:01 PM MarcelineVQ: I had to do exactly this just recently anonnumberanon, ended up putting a stainless bolt/nut in there with some liquid gasket, didn't ever want to deal with it again
07:01 PM anonnumberanon: so i cut it in the middle where the two flanges meet, basically through the gasket (which is thick for a flange like this)
07:01 PM cradek: oh this broke off because it's rusted in place? I'll try again with something brittle and half the diameter!
07:02 PM anonnumberanon: but then i was left with 4 flanges with pieces of bolts in them to remove
07:02 PM cradek: then ... oh ... now I can't drill it
07:02 PM anonnumberanon: i spent at least 15 dollars in bits on that single operation
07:03 PM MarcelineVQ: that's when the gas lines come out and you show it who's the apex species
07:03 PM anonnumberanon: MarcelineVQ, yeah I also put a bolt that was quite heavy duty in there
07:04 PM anonnumberanon: looks like brass color on the outside
07:04 PM anonnumberanon: not sure what material it is
07:05 PM MarcelineVQ: slightly yellowy? more than likely stainless, fairly yellowy? probably not. hehe
07:05 PM anonnumberanon: like this http://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F4832429-01.jpg
07:05 PM anonnumberanon: but here this says this one is brass
07:06 PM rebecca: not a coating?
07:06 PM anonnumberanon: no
07:07 PM anonnumberanon: well, not sure
07:07 PM anonnumberanon: if i type heavy duty bolt in google one of the answers is this and this is the same color: https://racetech-usa.com/shop/image/cache/data/accessories/3inchEyeBolt(sml)-800x800.jpg
07:08 PM archivist: passivated zinc plating
07:10 PM anonnumberanon: with a spring washer on each side
07:10 PM anonnumberanon: don't know if that was useful
07:11 PM anonnumberanon: seemed like a good idea at the time
07:11 PM anonnumberanon: or "split lock" man why do they have different names for the same thing
07:12 PM roycroft: grade 8 steel fasteners often have a yellow zinc coating
07:14 PM anonnumberanon: torqued them to like 50 lbs
08:08 PM Guest82335 is now known as jason___
08:12 PM malcom2073: Wolf__: it's a Frejoth apparently, not a grizzly clone, I was wrong
08:12 PM `Wolf: well, is it 12-36 ?
08:14 PM malcom2073: Yep, it is, what did you sayyou needed, and I can get pictures from him anyway and see if you think they'll fit
08:14 PM `Wolf: would just need some mesurements actually
08:15 PM malcom2073: You wanna come up and look at it?
08:15 PM malcom2073: Otherwise I can get over there this weekend and measure a bunch of parts
08:15 PM `Wolf: 7/8-8tpi lead screw around 47” long, 1.25mm pitch gears 40 tooth(2) and 32 tooth
08:16 PM `Wolf: and a damn thread dial
08:16 PM malcom2073: I'll shoot that to him and see if he has that stuff
08:17 PM `Wolf: yeah, seems quick change gears are a crap shoot with the asian lathes having different gear boxes on each one
08:17 PM `Wolf: least on the tooth count
08:17 PM malcom2073: K I texted him, let you know what he says
08:18 PM malcom2073: bit late though, he may or may not respond
08:21 PM `Wolf: moar shit https://i.imgur.com/ROXfjK9.jpg
08:22 PM jdh: all too neat and clean
08:22 PM `Wolf: =) https://i.imgur.com/hx0vvs6.jpg … good start on measurement stuffs? https://i.imgur.com/PSApHXY.jpg
08:23 PM jdh: nice
08:26 PM `Wolf: I wish that face mill was on a arbor….
08:28 PM `Wolf: and I seem to have too many boring heads https://i.imgur.com/ZbRVp1x.jpg and odd things https://i.imgur.com/mTisDJP.jpg
08:29 PM `Wolf: and everything is neat and clean because its all on the living room floor lmao
08:30 PM anonnumberanon: #linuxcnc where everything is boring
08:30 PM `Wolf: I’m thinking I made out pretty well on this deal
08:33 PM anonnumberanon: are you making a lathe?
08:34 PM `Wolf: bought out a retired machinists home shop
08:35 PM `Wolf: he never did any threading on the lathe so he took the lead screw off of it…
09:01 PM MarcelineVQ: `Wolf: :()
09:01 PM MarcelineVQ: er
09:01 PM MarcelineVQ: :(
09:01 PM MarcelineVQ: :O
09:20 PM * evilroot yawns
09:26 PM trentster: Hi all, I noticed today that I am getting about 1mm short travel on my one Y axis over about 300mm of travel. 1) Could a cheap Chinese ballscrew likely be responsible for this kind of error 2)if that is the culprit do you reccommend compensating for it in Linuxcnc or replacing the ballscrew entirely?
09:27 PM jdh: have you measured commanded distance vs. actual distance?
09:28 PM trentster: jdh: yes, if I command 300mm movement it actually has moved 299mm when I measure it.
09:30 PM MarcelineVQ: where does it end up when you command it to come 300mm back the other way after?
09:30 PM jdh: change your pitch or pulses to be 0.33% higher?
09:31 PM trentster: I first noticed this problem when I cut a 140mm square and the 2 sides were 139.80mm while the other X is spot on. Ironically I recently changed the Y axis to linear rail and carriages and used a thinner diameter ballscrew. this must somehow be causing the error.
09:31 PM trentster: MarcelineVQ: good, question, let me check quickly
09:36 PM trentster: MarcelineVQ: I just checked coming back the other way it comes back to 0 position without losing anything. 0-300 moves 299 but 300-0 goes back to 0
09:37 PM jdh: move one way 5mm, zero your measuring device, go 20mm the other way
09:37 PM MarcelineVQ: check a few times, like 20 repeditions, and if it's consistent I'd be inclined to make the change in software
09:38 PM MarcelineVQ: Take someone else's advise over mine though if they have any, I'm new to this
09:38 PM trentster: MarcelineVQ: do you think its the ballscrew that is the culprit?
09:39 PM MarcelineVQ: I don't know enough to say
09:41 PM trentster: jdh: ok going to check
09:45 PM evilroot: Sounds like your steps/mm setting is slightly off
09:47 PM evilroot: Its not uncommon for cheap leadscrews to be off a tad from the stated geometry
09:47 PM evilroot: 0.33% in that case
09:48 PM evilroot: Ought to be easily correctable in the software
09:50 PM jdh: or a little lash and a little off on pitch
09:52 PM Tom_L: any welders here?
09:53 PM MarcelineVQ: I did a course, it'd be a lie to say I'm a welder though, what do you need? :>
09:53 PM Tom_L: trying to get my mig dialed in right
09:54 PM Tom_L: i don't do enough to be real proficient at it
09:54 PM MarcelineVQ: tough thing to troubleshoot remotely, got my book pulled out here though. what's the trouble?
09:58 PM trentster: jdh: evilroot I just checked it is only seems to be losing in 1 direction. I will try and change it in software and retest. Where do I change it?
09:59 PM jdh: that sounds more like a backlash issue, but 1mm of lash would be a lot.
09:59 PM jdh: try the above test in the opposite directions
09:59 PM jdh: what are you measuring 300mm with?
10:00 PM trentster: digital calipers
10:00 PM evilroot: Only in one direction?
10:01 PM evilroot: That's . . . weird
10:01 PM jdh: check ballnut mounts, bearing blocks, etc for something loose?
10:02 PM jdh: is 150mm off by 0.5mm?
10:02 PM evilroot: So if you start at +300mm and move to zero it is accurate, but 0 to +300 isn't?
10:02 PM hazzy: What is the spec on the ballscrew? My brother got some multi start that supposedly had 1in pitch, but it was actually something odd like 25.5 mm
10:10 PM trentster: evilroot: yeah it seems that way but its very hard measuring accurately with digital calipers and a dial indicator has limited range.
10:12 PM trentster: Hazzy, it is a chinese thing I got off bangood, not sure of the make. I may just put the other ballscrew back if I can figure out how to fit it back in as it was much longer and this new machine(moving table) instead of moving gantry has been designed around the shorter one. sigh…
10:18 PM hazzy: trentster: Well I hope you will find that it is a simple linear error so you can compensate for it by changing the steps/encoder pulses per mm
10:19 PM trentster: yeah me too. I am trying to find the documentation for compensation. Any pointers?
10:21 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-config.html
10:21 PM Tom_L: 2.11
10:21 PM trentster: Thanks
10:21 PM Tom_L: [AXIS_num]
10:21 PM Tom_L: BACKLASH =
10:22 PM Tom_L: take note of the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL note there too
10:24 PM trentster: Tom_L: Thanks, so for 0.33% do I put in BACKLASH = 0.3300 ?
10:25 PM Tom_L: i think it's a measurement not a percent
10:27 PM trentster: hmmm, it does not make sense to me, hitting google to see if there is any additional info on this.
10:28 PM Tom_L: when i did it, i used a last word indicator to see how much slop there was
10:28 PM Tom_L: and put that number in my file
10:34 PM trentster: it says that the number is in machine units, so could you elaborate on how you measured slop, over what distance and what number you got and how you entered it into the file?
10:35 PM Tom_L: [AXIS_0]
10:35 PM Tom_L: BACKLASH = 0.0037
10:36 PM Tom_L: i told it to go a distance and measured just how far it went there and back
10:37 PM Tom_L: then cut a circle and see what the quadrant crossovers look like
10:42 PM trentster: Thanks Tom_L for being patient with me. This 0.0037 value how did you determine it by measuring what distance e.g. 100mm movement and you got?
10:43 PM `Wolf: Tom_L: for the welding question, I usually use the chart on my mig (or in the manual) to get the rough ball park of amps/wire feed rate and then dial it in by sound and what the bead looks like
10:47 PM gloops: nut mounting, shaft couplers etc all tight trentster?
10:48 PM gloops: screw not sliding?
10:50 PM trentster: gloops: all seems good, I will check them all again. I did notice a squeeking noise coming from the Y coupler. I will check it
10:50 PM Tom_L: `Wolf, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Z_Column_tack2.jpg
10:51 PM Tom_L: what am i doing wrong there?
10:51 PM `Wolf: shield gas?
10:51 PM Tom_L: 75 25
10:51 PM `Wolf: what type/flow rate
10:51 PM Tom_L: argon co2
10:51 PM Tom_L: i'd have to check
10:52 PM `Wolf: I run about 15cfm in the shop/outside iirc
10:52 PM Tom_L: ok
10:52 PM Tom_L: google said around 20
10:52 PM Tom_L: i'll check tomorrow
10:52 PM `Wolf: more doesn’t hurt
10:53 PM `Wolf: might just need to grind the oil soaked mill scale off as well
10:53 PM Tom_L: that could be it however i did sand all the paint off
10:53 PM `Wolf: which it looks like you did lol
10:54 PM Tom_L: like 30 grit on a DA
10:54 PM `Wolf: maybe turn the heat up some
10:55 PM `Wolf: and make sure the shield gas is flowing out the front and not leaking or getting diffused by slag in the tip
10:56 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm, that kind of porosity def. suggests a gas issue. I've only seen it like that when welding aluminum with sharpe on it before, that's a bad combo
10:57 PM MarcelineVQ: surprsingly little spatter though :/
10:57 PM `Wolf: welding aluminum is weird
11:01 PM MarcelineVQ: I mean I'd expect porous weld due to lacking gas to also have spatter ehe, moisture in CO2 can cause porosity, that's not too common though in a modern mix afaik :(
11:02 PM `Wolf: yup, I see it when its windy out, dirty metal (oil/grease), tip is clogged w/ spatter
11:03 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm, my book lists 25-35 cfm for an argon/co2 mix, and up to 45 in spray transfer
11:03 PM `Wolf: I can’t remember what my mig is set at lol
11:03 PM `Wolf: 15 cfm is for my TIG
11:03 PM `Wolf: 30-35 sounds right
11:03 PM MarcelineVQ: chances are you're on short-circuit transfer unless you tried to dial up to spray on purpose
11:04 PM `Wolf: yeah I’m not running spray
11:04 PM MarcelineVQ: lemme find procedure for a flat T like that
11:13 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm, too high or too low gas flow cause issues, too high because it pulls in nearby air, too low for obvious reasons. Too high voltage is an issue since it causes the arc to become erratic, but is unlikely here because you don't have excess spatter. you clearly don't have contaminants on the base metal. your stickout may be too long. try a different nozzle angle as well, travel speed cab be too fast, unlikely here given the welds.
11:13 PM MarcelineVQ: be sure to check if you have the right filler wire. visually it seems like a gas problem though, unless you've sprayed this thing with degreaser or something
11:16 PM `Wolf: this is what almost all of my mig work looks like http://www.wolfmetalfab.com/pics/'93%20Ford%20Explorer%20Solid%20Axle%20Swap/slides/IMG_0154.JPG
11:17 PM MarcelineVQ: hot puddle :>
11:17 PM `Wolf: almost all ways, full penetration
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: looks like it needs way more cleaning
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJDv7Y6dUi0 Mig Weld Trouble-Shooting: Common Problems & Solutions
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: https://youtu.be/PJDv7Y6dUi0?t=12m58s maybe too much stick out and not good coverage of shielding gas
11:36 PM MarcelineVQ: yeah the most common cause for sure of mig porosity is too much or too little gas flow, and then travel speed too fast, and then sitckout too far, both of those last two being gas issues too hehe, then contamination
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: I always do way more cleaning
11:39 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm a little spoiled when it comes to cleanlyness, most of my welds start with 6010 stick which just blows the bad things away
11:40 PM `Wolf: red rods? =)
11:40 PM MarcelineVQ: less spoiled when it comes to new material :<
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: that guys videos cover just about every mistakes ^^
11:41 PM `Wolf: I keep a box of that rod just for that reason, for those jobs that just aren’t worth bothering to clean first
11:41 PM MarcelineVQ: haven't heard that term for it, looking it up though seems likely hehe
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: if you can get past him talking through his node
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: node/nose
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: the only rods I have are for TIG, I haven't stick welded in quite a while
11:43 PM `Wolf: yeah, I don’t touch the stick stuff very often, 90% of the time everything gets hit with the metal glue gun
11:43 PM MarcelineVQ: gas suppliers are real dbags around here, using stick practically just to avoid having to deal with them
11:43 PM CaptHindsight: How To Weld With 6010 and 6011 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gICDVeh7jJE
11:44 PM MarcelineVQ: Well that and I weld infrequently enough that paying rental for a bottle isn't productive
11:44 PM MarcelineVQ: I'd just use flux core if it wasn't so messy
11:44 PM `Wolf: mine cost me $160/year for 2 tanks IIRC
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: I found a place that refills my 330cf tanks
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: I bought a bunch off CraigsList
11:45 PM `Wolf: $65 + $15 delivery fee for mine
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: paid ~$100 for each tank
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: so keep a few of each gas around
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: oxygen, 75/25, argon, nitrogen etc
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: I have a supplier I could walk to but they want more than you pay for rentals
11:47 PM `Wolf: yup
11:48 PM `Wolf: my refills delivered are cheaper then the shop that is 10 mins from my house lol
11:48 PM `Wolf: oops and the tank rental, that was every 2 yrs
11:48 PM CaptHindsight: `Wolf how big a tank will they refill without it being a rental?
11:49 PM `Wolf: none of the places here will touch 330’s unless you lease them
11:49 PM `Wolf: they do 75cu walk in swap tho on customer owned
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: what part of the country are you in?
11:50 PM `Wolf: least on argon/mix/nitrogen if I’m remembering right, I’m just north of DC
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: they are similar with rentals near the city
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: but 50+ miles out 330 are no problem to refill
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: did you get snow recently?
11:51 PM `Wolf: yup over th weekend
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: only 1" here (Chicago) but the radar for the coast looked like quite a storm
11:52 PM MarcelineVQ: biggest you can own and get filled around here is like... 42 :< it could be 80 but I don't think the one I was show was an 80
11:52 PM MarcelineVQ: what can you even get done on an 80 let alone a 40
11:53 PM `Wolf: I forget which sizes are what lol
11:53 PM `Wolf: I have little tanks for them oh shit we are out of gas when its 4pm on friday and need to get a job done for monday delivery
11:54 PM `Wolf: big tanks just call and go I need tank swapped out…
11:54 PM CaptHindsight: for me it's a beer run to Milwaukee
11:55 PM `Wolf: funny part the place I rent my tanks from in inside Baltimore city, I’m 40miles out lol
11:55 PM `Wolf: other shop is in Frederick and costs more
11:56 PM CaptHindsight: Matheson swapped all my random CL takes to theirs as well
11:57 PM CaptHindsight: so I pull up and they don't ask any questions
11:57 PM `Wolf: hmm I can’t find any info on this 3 jaw chuck I have here
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.mathesongas.com/ they have the lab gases as well
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: where did you get the chuck?
11:58 PM `Wolf: with the basement shop I bought out lol
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: mystery tooling
11:59 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/n0oIuey.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ROXfjK9.jpg