#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 08 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:29 AM dave__ is now known as gloops
12:39 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parkson-3N-Universal-Vertical-and-Horizontal-Milling-Machine/202136920246?
12:46 AM archivist: not far for you to fetch
12:48 AM gloops: lot of travel on that machine
12:49 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beaver-mill-Milling-Machine-like-Bridgeport/232589782302?
12:50 AM archivist: I have a copy of the Beaver closure auction brochure
12:53 AM gloops: probably wont bid on any, too much else to do atm, better off not fighting on too many fronts
01:54 AM archivist: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232589240674 odd attachment on its rear, I have one now I know what it fits
01:56 AM Wolf__: looks like a quick attach thinger
01:56 AM archivist: kinematic mount with the v cuts
01:57 AM archivist: I already have a MIH probe head
01:58 AM Deejay: moin
01:59 AM Wolf__: I’ll probably be playin with my MP1 soon
01:59 AM archivist: Wolf__, have you dragged all the toys home yet
01:59 AM Wolf__: probably in the next two weeks (or less)
02:00 AM Wolf__: moved a few walls around at my mom’s house in the basement so I wont have to worry about everything rusting away =)
02:02 AM Wolf__: plus for now that means only a mile trip to move everything
02:02 AM archivist: keeping dry is a problem, fixing windows here to make it warmer
02:04 AM Wolf__: my garage at my house isnt climate controlled and its also partly below ground level on 2 sides so summer time the inside temp is alway below dew point, to add to the problem I have a pond and a creek right outside of the shop
02:06 AM archivist: the roof on my garage is asbestos and has incorrect slope so drips and leaks
02:06 AM Wolf__: thats not helpful
02:07 AM archivist: I need long enough in a dry spell to rip it off and replace
02:10 AM Wolf__: I might have found a lead screw for the lathe as well, except that I’ve noticed that the asian 12-36 from grizzly for instance show 0.866” 0.870” and 0.875” diameters all with 8 tpi pitch, my manual lists 22mm/ 7/8”…
02:11 AM archivist: you could fit a ballscrew if going to cnc eventually
02:11 AM Wolf__: not planning on that w/ this one
02:12 AM archivist: hmm fleabay item in calif postage more than the item
02:12 AM Wolf__: kinda wondering if the 0.009” possible size difference would hurt anything
02:16 AM archivist: why would a grzzly have 3 different diameters? is that 3 examples?
02:16 AM Wolf__: yeah
02:17 AM Wolf__: I was looking at possibles to replace the missing part
02:17 AM Wolf__: the fact that my lathe manual says 22mm and 7/8” baffles me though
02:18 AM archivist: metric v inch
02:18 AM archivist: .866 is 22mm
02:19 AM Wolf__: yeah I know =)
02:19 AM Wolf__: I’m guessing long as its close and the right pitch half nut would take up the difference?
02:19 AM archivist: .870 is a sensible clearance for an english 7/8 nominal
02:21 AM archivist: as long as the pitch is right should work
02:22 AM Wolf__: cool, just need to check length and go from there
02:23 AM archivist: it would not surprise me if the .866 one was actually a metric pitch as well
02:26 AM Wolf__: I forget the make of the machine the used one is in, but its the same as the grizzly 4003 and lists it as 0.870” 8tpi
02:27 AM Wolf__: is/was in…
02:29 AM archivist: better check if acme or square thread if off random machine
02:31 AM archivist: my southbend cam with worn out nut and slightly bent screw, a local made new nut inserts, fitted very well, a lever sorted the slight bend
02:33 AM Wolf__: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/6D4CDF47-9A9C-4075-A15F-D76F9419C075.jpeg
02:33 AM Wolf__: looks acme
04:48 AM anonnumberanon: What does C7 mean for the specs of a ball screw?
04:49 AM anonnumberanon: ah, nvm accuracy grade
04:51 AM archivist: c7 a "rattling fit" one
04:52 AM jthornton: morning
04:54 AM anonnumberanon: archivist, so far it's the best i see except for maybe "ground", but I haven't seen "ground" for sale
04:55 AM archivist: ground will cost a lot more
04:57 AM archivist: people expect 0 backlash from ballscrews but then buy c7 grade :)
04:58 AM anonnumberanon: is rolled better than c7 and worse than ground?
04:59 AM archivist: c7 is almost guaranteed to be rolled, its cheaper to make
05:00 AM archivist: rolled is method c7 is resulting accuracy
05:01 AM anonnumberanon: i see!
05:08 AM archivist: c7 is off the chart here http://www.designworldonline.com/what-to-look-for-when-choosing-a-precision-ball-screw/
05:08 AM XXCoder: ao c0 sucks hard and c7 is fancypants
05:09 AM XXCoder: *so
05:09 AM XXCoder: hmm looks like opposite?
05:09 AM archivist: inverse
05:09 AM XXCoder: yea noticed numbers is smaller on c0
05:10 AM anonnumberanon: ah lol
05:10 AM anonnumberanon: i was also wondering cause saw a chart from c0 to c10
05:10 AM XXCoder: does c10 have precision of +- .01"?
05:10 AM anonnumberanon: also off the chart means extraordinary
05:11 AM archivist: too crap to mention
05:11 AM XXCoder: extraprdinarly bad apparently
05:11 AM anonnumberanon: who would need better than c7 for aluminum?
05:12 AM archivist: anyone who demands higher accuracy
05:13 AM XXCoder: I make +- .0005" precision parts pretty often
05:13 AM archivist: I fitted a used screw to my machine and did some measurements http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
05:13 AM XXCoder: I somehow doubt c7 can do that
05:15 AM archivist: the stepper inaccuracy swamps the ballscrew errors often probably like it does on mine
05:17 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:17 AM XXCoder: mill I use have 2 inch diameter ballscrews
05:18 AM XXCoder: biggest I ever was othet machine there at 3 in diameter
05:19 AM archivist: I got a 30mm dia one off ebay, not used it yet
05:19 AM XXCoder: nice. any plans?
05:19 AM archivist: no, just the price was right so got it
05:21 AM XXCoder: nice
05:21 AM XXCoder: I want to evenually make farmbot because why not lol
05:28 AM jthornton: 20F burrrrr
05:28 AM XXCoder: free freezer
05:31 AM anonnumberanon: what is farmbot?
05:31 AM XXCoder: its farm cnc
05:31 AM XXCoder: it weeds, waters and plants seeds
05:32 AM _methods: that would be fun, i could really up my plant killing game
05:32 AM anonnumberanon: omg i keep asking before googling
05:32 AM anonnumberanon: sorry i just woke up
05:32 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqYrAWssrrY
05:32 AM XXCoder: one of few non-company videos
05:37 AM Tom_L: 17F
05:37 AM XXCoder: its freezing cold here. not too sure what temp is
05:37 AM XXCoder: ice fog too. very heavy fog
05:38 AM XXCoder: probably 30f as at work it wasnt freezing, but home (only few miles away) are.
05:38 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7aHhy8tyU
05:39 AM XXCoder: put it in greenhouse and PID heater and have fresh veggies year around
05:39 AM malcom2073: So, how does it weed?
05:40 AM malcom2073: Built in roto tiller? :-D
05:40 AM XXCoder: it have spikes head and it pushes it in soil
05:40 AM XXCoder: there was few variants to find whats best for that
05:41 AM malcom2073: I guess if you catch the weeds early enough they're easy to kill, and since it's automated it catches them as soon as they sprout?
05:41 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:41 AM XXCoder: it even have "unauthorized" plants detection by camera
05:41 AM malcom2073: Ah it just got to that part of the video
05:42 AM malcom2073: I could see that being useful on like, a larger scale, dunno if scaling the machine is practical
05:43 AM XXCoder: honestly that size is perfect for sometimes having fresh veggies
05:43 AM XXCoder: kale, carrots, etc
05:43 AM malcom2073: Yeah but at that scale is it worth the effort vs normal raised bed gardening?
05:43 AM XXCoder: dunno really, depends on how much time you have I'd say
05:43 AM anonnumberanon: the machine is very small
05:44 AM malcom2073: C'mon, you've set up a machine before, you know how much time setting that sort of thing up takes :P
05:44 AM anonnumberanon: it should just be able to transport itself to multiple patches, since it seems it doesn't need to be affixed to the patch
05:44 AM malcom2073: anonnumberanon: That'd be useful, have it on wheels with the ability to pick itself up and move
05:45 AM anonnumberanon: with a grid of cables or something of the sort, i don't think rocket engines or quadcopters will be needed for this
05:45 AM XXCoder: malcom2073: it probably precision of 1" lol
05:45 AM anonnumberanon: malcom2073, of course, but problem with wheels is limited range and motion
05:45 AM malcom2073: Plenty enough heh
05:45 AM anonnumberanon: XXCoder, lol
05:45 AM XXCoder: it dont really matter as long as it hits approx where it wants to.
05:45 AM malcom2073: anonnumberanon: True, but if you have a bunch of beds in a grid, wheels would do fine
05:46 AM anonnumberanon: oh sure, i was assuming the field where the patches are was uneven and stuff like that
05:46 AM anonnumberanon: if it's nice and clean, why not
05:46 AM malcom2073: I'll send that to my gardening geek buddy, see what he thinks. I'm sure he's seen it but I'm keen to get his input. He's got an internet connected and monitored greenhouse set up heh
05:46 AM XXCoder: its $4k kit, but honestly we can build it for far less
05:46 AM malcom2073: anonnumberanon: But at that rate, why have the linear motion, why not just have the thing on wheels, and drive down between plants?
05:47 AM XXCoder: I think length is using wheels while Y and Z uses screws
05:49 AM anonnumberanon: yeah
05:49 AM anonnumberanon: you'd need a semi-accurate way of alighing the machine with the current patch
05:50 AM malcom2073: Yeah, could use vision maybe? Some sort of patten on the ground (how to keep it clean enough to read?)
05:50 AM anonnumberanon: well that's why i was think of a grid above
05:50 AM malcom2073: Oops, gotta go
05:53 AM anonnumberanon: what i don't understand is i thought most plants were seasonal, can you trick them?
05:54 AM archivist: they can be tricked by lighting, also supermarkets transport from where they are in season
05:55 AM XXCoder: and some veg or fruits take a while to mature
05:55 AM XXCoder: apples for example is seasonal. but they kill oxygen and stuff around it so it lasts long time
05:57 AM XXCoder: In CA storage, apples are sealed in an environment that is around 2 percent oxygen where temperature, humidity, nitrogen and carbon dioxide are all carefully regulated. “Apples breathe,” as Allen puts it—and the deeper they breathe, the longer they’ll live. Controlled-atmosphere storage slows their breathing, which consequently slows their ripening. Controlled atmosphere storage artificially makes the room perfect
05:57 AM XXCoder: for the apples’ long winter nap. Regular refrigerated storage is good, but CA storage is better.
05:58 AM anonnumberanon: "what we really tried to do with this project is, build a platform"
05:58 AM anonnumberanon: I beg to differ, you're just trying to make money while having fun. And I'm jealous if it works.
05:59 AM XXCoder: farmbot?
05:59 AM XXCoder: I dont know how many they sell
05:59 AM XXCoder: or even if it took off or not.
06:00 AM XXCoder: ROI pparently https://farmbot.io/2016/06/24/what-is-the-return-on-investment-of-a-farmbot/
06:00 AM XXCoder: last software update on oct 2017
06:01 AM XXCoder: so pretty recent
06:01 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60htrqei_U0 more recent videp
06:03 AM XXCoder: wow new app is interesting. it even reserves region for larger plants. like pumpkin
06:05 AM XXCoder: on sale, $800 off this month apparently. too bad still expensive./
06:07 AM anonnumberanon: oh
06:07 AM anonnumberanon: i thought that it was $4000
06:07 AM XXCoder: 800 off that yes
06:07 AM anonnumberanon: but yeah if you had a system that can move this machine to other patches, it would be good for larger operations
06:08 AM XXCoder: preorder price
06:08 AM anonnumberanon: oh lol okay
06:08 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:08 AM anonnumberanon: what are the expensive parts though? nothing i think
06:09 AM XXCoder: alum parts
06:09 AM XXCoder: very long 1010 beams, 1020 beams
06:09 AM XXCoder: I guess if you mnake yourself it would cost $1500 or so
06:09 AM XXCoder: maybe $2k
06:12 AM anonnumberanon: yeah
06:14 AM jthornton: farmbot looks like a used car salesman dream car
06:14 AM XXCoder: uh
06:14 AM XXCoder: er huh
06:16 AM jthornton: watching the videos and it'a all about selling the thing and nothing about how it works or doesn't work... looks like an expensive toy
06:17 AM XXCoder: I found a few user videos its not too bad really
06:17 AM XXCoder: honestly I want it to play around a little though I plan to recycle most of it from my cheap 3d printer
06:17 AM XXCoder: honesly dunno if I will do it at all lol
06:18 AM jthornton: the one clip I saw of it planting a seed it picked up one seed from a cup and planted it
06:18 AM jthornton: if you could program it to water and weed the garden it would be cool
06:19 AM XXCoder: it waters and it weeds
06:19 AM XXCoder: didnt you watch video?
06:20 AM jthornton: yes but the video does not show everything only carefully choreographed scenes
06:21 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:22 AM XXCoder: thats why I checked out user videos
06:22 AM XXCoder: it does seem to work well.
06:22 AM XXCoder: and they are still updating and selling after few years
06:22 AM XXCoder: so I guess it is successful enough
06:27 AM anonnumberanon: i would make a module that looks at seeds and grabs them one at a time with force-compliant grabber then puts it in the planter so it's one at a time only
06:38 AM jthornton: https://www.uaa.alaska.edu/academics/honors-college/achievements/competitive-grants/parasca/_documents/parasca_wunderle_proposal_web.pdf
06:40 AM XXCoder: jthornton: what ya think of concerete leveling foam
06:40 AM anonnumberanon: :)
06:40 AM jthornton: for my shop?
06:40 AM XXCoder: nah my home
06:40 AM XXCoder: stairs is leaning a little (external concerete steps)
06:40 AM jthornton: that's only for things like sidewalks not foundations
06:41 AM XXCoder: driveway is not stright either
06:41 AM XXCoder: steps isnt part of foundation
06:41 AM jthornton: ah that works for driveways
06:45 AM jthornton: I need to jack up the corner of my shop, it's down several inches due to a stupid mistake I made
06:46 AM XXCoder: doh
06:46 AM XXCoder: what happened?
06:46 AM jthornton: I dug out a tree stump and did not use the right filler
06:46 AM jthornton: so as the dirt compacted it sank
06:47 AM XXCoder: doh
06:48 AM jthornton: I have two 50 ton low profile jacks I plan on using to jack it back up then fill the hole with some concrete
06:48 AM jthornton: we will see how that plan works out lol
06:50 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:53 AM dave__ is now known as gloops
06:57 AM jthornton: someone needs to go outside in the now 19F cold and let the chickens out
06:58 AM XXCoder: hire me
06:58 AM XXCoder: cheap, just airplane ride and hourly wage. though time delay may not worth it
07:02 AM XXCoder: time to sleep layer
07:07 AM * anonnumberanon needs to professional expenses all these parts
07:45 AM IchGucksLive: hi
07:45 AM IchGucksLive: !seen Heinz_
07:45 AM the_wench: last seen in 2017-12-08 12:22:19GMT 01:19:56 ago, saying Ping timeout: 260 seconds
07:46 AM IchGucksLive: anonnumberanon: how is it
07:46 AM anonnumberanon: hi IchGucksLive
07:46 AM IchGucksLive: yoiu can make a good mashine wiithout mashining only with a drill
07:47 AM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/holzcnc.jpg
07:47 AM anonnumberanon: i like where this is going
07:47 AM IchGucksLive: anonnumberanon: what budged do you decide
07:48 AM IchGucksLive: anonnumberanon: this is my Youtube on CNC https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
07:48 AM anonnumberanon: IchGucksLive, honestly? i have spreadsheet with all the components except the actual frame, any and all brackets, and the guide rods, the total comes out to $450 so far
07:48 AM anonnumberanon: no budget decided yet
07:49 AM IchGucksLive: the litle mashines for educatio ncomes in totel at 280USD
07:49 AM IchGucksLive: 180x180x60 movement
07:49 AM IchGucksLive: totel mashine size 300Qube
07:52 AM anonnumberanon: wow that's cheap
07:57 AM IchGucksLive: this is the electronics http://www.ebay.de/itm/EU-ship-3Axis-Nema23-Stepper-Motor-270oz-in-4Leads-3-0A-Board-CNC-Kit-23HS8430/192110161617?hash=item2cbaa86ed1:g:hNoAAOSw9r1V-8km
08:00 AM IchGucksLive: till later
08:10 AM miss0r: archivist: you around?
08:10 AM archivist: hoooomeeee
08:12 AM * archivist pokes miss0r for a response
08:26 AM JT-Shop: crap it's colder than at 5am
08:29 AM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Flip the switch to turn on the wood stove... TOASTY!!!!
08:31 AM Jymmm: archivist: Do you ever cut the binding on a 600 page book to scan it in?
08:33 AM JT-Shop: Jymmm: I have all 3 wood stoves lit
08:33 AM SpeedEvil: I have my 'industrial' heater for the bedroom which has been refitted with a chinese PID
08:33 AM SpeedEvil: ^fitted
08:37 AM roycroft: we're having an inversion that will last through wednesday next at least, yet several of my neighbors who have alternate heat sources are burning their wood stoves
08:38 AM roycroft: and it's pretty smokey outside
08:38 AM roycroft: wood burning isn't banned where i live, but it is nearby, and probably will be here by day's end
08:40 AM gregcnc_: they ban outirght, not force catalytic stoves?
08:41 AM roycroft: when the air quality gets really bad wood burning is banned unless wood heat is the only heat source for a home
08:41 AM roycroft: almost everyone in the city has an alternative heat source
08:41 AM JT-Shop: chickens are wandering around in the 18F like it is nothing
08:42 AM miss0r: archivist: Sorry about that. I had a client come in the door the sec I wrote you. You still around?
08:43 AM roycroft: i don't mind that it's cold, except for the morons who go around driving on icy roads as they do on dry roads
08:43 AM roycroft: driving too fast, tailgaiting, slamming on brakes, etc.
08:43 AM roycroft: and then there's the folks who head off without scraping their windows
08:43 AM gregcnc_: normal
08:43 AM roycroft: yesterday a motorist ran over a pedestrian here because her windows were frosted over and she couldn't see
08:43 AM miss0r: archivist: And I have to leave in just a few minuts now :) I was just wondering if you could help me find out what the correct pinout is of a DB9 for a nec multisync screen is.
08:44 AM miss0r: archivist: Anywho. I realy do have to run now :/ I'll see if you are around later when I get back
08:44 AM archivist: Jymmm, no
08:44 AM roycroft: it doesn't help that it's dark during both the morning and afternoon commutes these days, and a lot of pedestrians walk around with dark clothing
08:45 AM archivist: miss0r, sounds like ega vintage
08:45 AM miss0r: I have no idea what is actualy is :) I just bought a converter that'll do it all :]
08:46 AM archivist: miss0r, I have the user manual for "Multisync PLUS monitor"
08:47 AM miss0r: This is a multisync II
08:47 AM roycroft: a nec multisync monitor?
08:47 AM roycroft: are we going back to the '80s?
08:47 AM miss0r: roycroft: Yeah, something like that
08:48 AM roycroft: i used to sell those to my high end customers back then
08:48 AM archivist: must visit here on my map http://www.collection.archivist.info/shelfview.php?src=artitle&locid=18
08:48 AM roycroft: they were really expensive
08:48 AM miss0r: archivist: Realy am sorry to run out like this. I'll catch you later ;)
08:53 AM archivist: looks like they were ttl and analogue
08:58 AM archivist: miss0r, when you get back http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/manuals/IM74_NEC_multisync/page_a_0001.jpg
09:09 AM C_P-Away: Sup
09:10 AM C_P-Away is now known as Contract_Pilot
09:11 AM archivist: Jymmm, I dont scan large books generally either
09:20 AM hazzy: We have been having some slushy snow falling all morning here in North Atlanta.
09:20 AM hazzy: Its only 36F, but it is supposed to get colder thru the day, so we'll see that happens.
09:20 AM hazzy: Problem is most folks here have no clue how to drive safe in the rain, much less in snow and ice.
09:26 AM Loetmichel: hazzy: i have the reverse problem
09:27 AM Loetmichel: driving a 2 ton RWD car with pretty much stone rubber tires...
09:27 AM Loetmichel: every corner i take when its wet out i look out the side window to look ahead ;)
09:31 AM archivist: you are supposed to be more sensible at your age :)
09:45 AM Contract_Pilot: today i should be finishung up installing windows
09:45 AM Contract_Pilot: in the hosue
09:45 AM Contract_Pilot: the glass type
09:46 AM archivist: I was making space to get at a windows ready to replace today
09:47 AM gregcnc_: contract_pilot this will be me soon https://thd.co/2k9QSsV
09:47 AM Contract_Pilot: cover them up...
09:48 AM archivist: ew that takes extra time
09:48 AM archivist: bash em out and in
09:49 AM Contract_Pilot: i have wooden doors on the garage
09:50 AM gregcnc_: so do I, the ~2" thick MDF variety, forking cold in there. it's drywalled so i have no idea what is insulated
09:51 AM Contract_Pilot: i insulated my garage with rockwool
09:52 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/image-7-1024x768.jpeg
09:52 AM gregcnc_: was going to check this summer, but was planning on moving
09:53 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/image-24-1024x768.jpeg
09:55 AM Contract_Pilot: ok, on the hunt to see if i can get a copy of PP 2.0 befor my flash drive arrives haahaha...
10:02 AM Jymmm: archivist: Ah, ok. I wish my scanner did legal size (8.5 x 14) would make it SO much easier! lol
10:03 AM archivist: I have three active scanners now
10:04 AM Jymmm: archivist: I really don't scan THAT often enough to justify getting another, already have an all-in-one printer, plus a seperate scanner
10:04 AM archivist: A3, A4 with transparency and A4 with sheet feeder for bulk but only if it is loose bound
10:05 AM Jymmm: archivist: If I could get this book re-bound decently, I might consider cutting it
10:06 AM archivist: best is get a real book scanner
10:07 AM Jymmm: It changes the pages for you?
10:07 AM archivist: yes they do
10:07 AM archivist: $$$$$
10:07 AM archivist: find a service that has one
10:07 AM Jymmm: Oh, forget that, lol
10:08 AM archivist: some libraries have them
10:08 AM roycroft: my mopier scans very nicely
10:08 AM roycroft: it handles up to 12"x18"
10:08 AM roycroft: 11"x17" is the biggest the duplexer can take though
10:08 AM roycroft: up to 600dpi
10:09 AM roycroft: and it will save as tiff, jpeg, or pdf
10:09 AM gregcnc_: jymmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne-h7FTMZBk
10:09 AM roycroft: but it cannot scan bound books automatically
10:11 AM gregcnc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdMtOvKqw4Q
10:15 AM Contract_Pilot: cool what people think up...
10:15 AM gregcnc_: there's a lot of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmhIJOqepVU
10:17 AM Contract_Pilot: got to bundle up and fire up the heat gun to get this flashing off...
10:18 AM Contract_Pilot: fricken window mfg defect = remove and replace....
10:21 AM Contract_Pilot: so much stuff to do befor the 18th
10:21 AM Contract_Pilot: they are going to cut my baccon on the 18th
10:26 AM Jymmm: Someone say BACOOOOOOOOOON?!?!?!?!?!
10:26 AM The_Ball: I want to turn a hex and I've seen others gang the spindle angle through hal to a X offset to do this, but I can't remember what this is called so google is coming up blank
10:27 AM Jymmm: A $500 LED... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-hQXaxO-cc
10:27 AM gregcnc_: I'ts not commonly done, unless milling or polygon turning
10:28 AM Jymmm: gregcnc_: I liked that scaner that moved and used air to turn the pages, still not sure how they did that =(
10:28 AM gregcnc_: though andypugh has done some wild things https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
10:29 AM gregcnc_: that's brutal as far as tooling goes
10:30 AM gregcnc_: vacuum sucks the pages together, maybe another puff of air blows the aside?
10:30 AM hazzy: gregcnc_: You beat me finding that vid :)
10:33 AM gregcnc_: i think he had one on OD too
10:39 AM The_Ball: gregcnc_, yes that's what I was looking for
10:40 AM gregcnc_: someone did it on mach listen to those steppers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DajrTlI8IWA
10:41 AM archivist: The_Ball, andy pugh did it with lcnc
10:43 AM archivist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
10:44 AM gregcnc_: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NonCircularTurning
10:46 AM archivist: I do my hex and other shapes on the mill after turning on the lathe
11:18 AM Loetmichel: *MAAAN* why me? had a weak contact on one of the plugs of the y axis.. ONLY surfaces at a certain speed -> step loss. Result: 1 hour machine time and quite some sheet aluminium for the bin. :-( -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16906&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:21 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: I see the issue, you were using al with green protective sheet. Had it been purple, then no problem!
11:21 AM Loetmichel: ... well, thats what you get for letting the router run unsupervised... another try monday morning... the finished notebook PSU is only meant to be delivered monday evening, so plenty time... ;)
11:22 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: thats "painters tape" for powder paint. its only there to close the vacuum table holes where no aluminium is.
11:23 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: You just need more COWBELL!!!
11:23 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: Had it been purple, you would have never had any issues, just sayin ;)
11:24 AM Loetmichel: issues are already remedied: one of the stepper plugs wasnt screwed in properly.
11:46 AM MarcelineVQ: shoulda gone with purple
11:52 AM JT-Shop: every now and then you get a customer that has to call you about every detail... what a PIA when they won't use the resources we have for help
11:55 AM MarcelineVQ: :( customer service is the hardest job out there
11:56 AM MarcelineVQ: because people are just the worst, unless you're in the wonderful position where you can choose your customers
11:58 AM JT-Shop: well I can choose my industrial customers but not the online customers
12:03 PM roycroft: i don't think i've been a bad online customer of yours, jt-shop
12:03 PM roycroft: but if i were you would be able to badmouth me here
12:03 PM roycroft: so i have incentive to behave :)
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:04 PM roycroft: good evening
12:04 PM MarcelineVQ: hello
12:04 PM sync: MarcelineVQ: well, you can always choose your customers
12:04 PM roycroft: if they order something from you on a website it's kind of hard to be choosey
12:05 PM roycroft: because there's no way to ascertain what kind of customer they'll be until after they get the stuff
12:05 PM roycroft: unless they bug you a lot before ordering
12:07 PM dave__ is now known as gloops
12:07 PM JT-Shop: lol
12:08 PM JT-Shop: yep, they are rare thank goodness
12:08 PM JT-Shop: I bet Peter gets more than me but he can answer their questions off the top of his head where I have RFM
12:09 PM MarcelineVQ: sync: I'd like that to be true hehe, when you're starting out though that's hard on a small business
12:11 PM roycroft: still, even when you're small and just starting out, some customers can cost you a lot of money, and you have to be able to turn them away
12:12 PM roycroft: the key being your ability to figure out which will be "high maintenance" customers up front
12:12 PM gloops: lol
12:12 PM roycroft: and you can do it without causing ill will
12:13 PM roycroft: just find out what their timeframe is and conveniently be too busy to meet their schedule
12:13 PM gloops: true, not worth the hassle and some are a real threat to the existence of your business
12:14 PM roycroft: back in the '80s i spent a couple years selling computers for tandy corp, in a retail store
12:14 PM roycroft: my boss was very customer service oriented, and a real jerk to the employees
12:14 PM roycroft: but he understood that some customers are just too high maintenance
12:15 PM roycroft: i had a handful of them during my tenure there
12:15 PM roycroft: they would come in every day asking questions and wanting instruction
12:15 PM roycroft: my boss would patiently let them do that to a point
12:15 PM roycroft: but when he saw how much it was impacting my ability to sell new product, he would get with the customer and try to figure out a way to let them return the product for a full refund
12:16 PM roycroft: and he would not take my commission away from me
12:16 PM roycroft: it was the one thing he did well
12:18 PM gloops: i worked for a nationwide company years ago, very expensive, they took allcomers on, but they had the people who knew how to deal with them, in our depot they used to bring this bloke out called 'the claw' due to his ability to recover any sales/contract dilemna even with the most awkward clients
12:21 PM FinboySlick: Real men do it like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOFIFY4bz5o ;)
12:21 PM FinboySlick: Oh darn, I'm late to the discussion again.
12:22 PM MarcelineVQ: real men hold it with their teeth and if it rattles too much you just twist your ear with your free hand
01:02 PM gloops: pondering, not seen a horizontal wood mill/router
01:03 PM gloops: that could be a very useful machine
01:05 PM gloops: but not really cncable
01:05 PM miss0r: archivist, i'm back. I've looked at your link, and am left wondering if that manual of yours has the configuration for the small switches on the back of the monitor - I think thoes determin what kind of signal is incomming, and can help me narrow down the correct pin assignment
01:15 PM * gloops has a good idea
01:16 PM gregcnc_: gloops there have been but they call them vertical?
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:17 PM gregcnc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVRSca5lkS8
01:18 PM gloops: ahh, didnt mean like that gregcnc
01:18 PM gloops: i mean a horizontal spindle
01:20 PM gloops: in that link the material is vertical - basically a vertical router on its side
01:21 PM gloops: thinking about this, you cannot just mount a standard spindle horizantally, the diameter of the spindle would exceed the diameter of the cutter, therefore cannot travel over the workpiece
01:22 PM gloops: what you would need is a cutter block with blades, with overhead motor
01:23 PM gloops: imagine a 10 inch wide cutter block, that has the ability to plane a 30 inch slab in 3 passes
01:24 PM gloops: the width of the y axis determines the maximum job size, 4ft planer thicknesser is a potent machine
01:31 PM gloops: basically a cnc spindle moulder
01:32 PM gregcnc_: it doesn't make sense typing up a router to plane
01:33 PM gloops: well planing is only one potential, you could add moulding cutters, but a 4 ft or 5 ft or 8ft planer?
01:42 PM hazzy: gloops: At IWF I saw something that I think is like you are describing. It was a head for a vertical router that had a ~6" long 1" dia horizontal arbor for mounting surfacing and shaping cutters on.
01:42 PM hazzy: Kinda like this: https://us.bigkaiser.com/images/anglehead_ag90.jpg
01:42 PM hazzy: But with an arbor supported at each end
01:42 PM hazzy: and low profile gears box
01:43 PM gloops: well that is ok hazzy, but as i said, that head cannot travel over the workpiece
01:43 PM roycroft: speaking of spindles, and not to hijack the conversation
01:43 PM hazzy: It can if the gearbox is smaller than the cutter dia, right?
01:43 PM roycroft: i did a bit more testing of my new spindle last night, and i could detect a faint high-pitched whine when running it
01:43 PM gregcnc_: Just make the tool larger in Ø
01:44 PM roycroft: it seemed to me to be around 18-20kHz
01:44 PM roycroft: it was not very loud
01:44 PM roycroft: is that normal for those spindles?
01:44 PM roycroft: or is it a sign that i have a dry bearing or something like that?
01:44 PM gloops: http://www.jmjwood.co.uk/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_1941_750x750.jpg < planer block
01:45 PM roycroft: the spindle being one of the ubiquitous 80mm water-cooled spindles from china, with a german bearing pack
01:45 PM gregcnc_: probably not a bearing
01:45 PM gloops: you have a block like that at the lowest point of your z, a motor overhead driving it, on a pulley of cog smaller than the block diameter
01:46 PM gloops: you can plane anything that fits in your table
01:46 PM gloops: quickly
01:46 PM roycroft: if it's probably not a bearing then i'm probably not worried :)
01:47 PM gloops: hazzy yes it can, but how will you do that?
01:48 PM gloops: im going to try this on a spare z plate - any router can do it
01:48 PM gloops: cnc router
01:57 PM gloops: roy mine makes some noise, 24k you cant hear it outside the garage, air cooled
02:17 PM roycroft: it's not very loud
02:17 PM roycroft: i've not cut anything with the spindle yet
02:18 PM gloops: thats when the noise starts heh
02:18 PM roycroft: but when it's spinning at 24k rpm under no load it's probbly 20dB quieter than my porter-cable 3hp router under no load spinning at the same speed
02:18 PM gloops: slow feed light cut still barely noisy
02:19 PM gloops: hogging fast and deep - same old router howl returns
02:19 PM roycroft: almost anything is going to be quieter than a universal motor
02:19 PM gloops: no comparison to a router really
02:19 PM roycroft: but yeah, i expect the cutter to make a lot of noise when it's doing its thing
02:20 PM roycroft: this is one of the main reasons i decided to use a spindle instead of a router motor in my new router stand
02:21 PM roycroft: perhaps the biggest reason
02:21 PM gloops: i cant run a router - even not cutting, for 8 hours a day, a spindle i can
02:22 PM roycroft: the spindle will be enclosed in a box as well
02:22 PM roycroft: and i can put insulation around the box if i want to
02:22 PM roycroft: but most of the noise will be the cutterhead anyway
02:22 PM roycroft: and that part won't be in a box
02:22 PM gloops: kingspan insulation - noise gone
02:23 PM roycroft: some high quality active noise-cancelling headphones would help
02:24 PM gloops: yeah but my neighbours just wont wear them all day
02:25 PM roycroft: good ones are expensive though
02:25 PM roycroft: and yes, neighbors
02:25 PM roycroft: working on the source of the noise is always best
02:27 PM gloops: yeah i am still at home with this, have made some kind of effort to get the noise down, got my eye on some small units though for if and when i can start making some cash from it
02:28 PM gloops: (where noise wouldnt be an issue)
02:29 PM roycroft: it would still be an issue for you
02:29 PM roycroft: but neighbors would not be an issue
02:30 PM gloops: boxing the entire machine in is the best option, like industrial cnc machines, obviously not an option with hand operated machines
02:34 PM miss0r: feck. I'm not so sure the converter board i've bought does even handle the video signal from my mill :-/
02:35 PM Todd_Z: hazzy: I think you were looking for a moulding head for a wood router like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-vzZzfmH4Q
02:36 PM gloops: Todd you have just ruined my day!
02:36 PM Tom_L: gloops i think i've finalized the design i'm going with
02:36 PM gloops: its been done already...sht
02:36 PM Tom_L: based on available materials etc
02:36 PM Todd_Z: They used to make dedicated C-axis moulding heads for some of the big industrial wood machines like Heian, Shoda, Northwood...
02:37 PM gloops: Tom you drawn it up?
02:37 PM Tom_L: of course
02:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
02:37 PM hazzy: Todd_Z: That is exactly what I was looking for!
02:37 PM gloops: lol
02:38 PM Tom_L: so i should have about 9" in Z, about 12" in Y and about 19" in X absolute maximums
02:39 PM gloops: that is looking pretty 'real mill' Tom, cant see why that wont work
02:39 PM Tom_L: it'll look even more 'real mill' once i start welding on it
02:40 PM Tom_L: may add a couple braces along the way but that's what i'm going with
02:40 PM Todd_Z: hazzy: if that is what you were looking for, it is just a C-axis aggreate moulding tool, they are avalible from most makers of aggreate tooling like Benz.
02:40 PM gloops: any strategy for welding?
02:40 PM Tom_L: no
02:40 PM Tom_L: well, yeah
02:40 PM Tom_L: don't burn myself
02:40 PM gloops: good start
02:41 PM Tom_L: my welding skilz is rusty
02:41 PM andypugh: You need to remove the rust afore welding
02:41 PM gloops: mainly concerned with welding warping things etc
02:41 PM Tom_L: i'll get my bud to flatten the surfaces
02:42 PM Tom_L: andypugh, i've tried that on a few practice pieces
02:43 PM Tom_L: i had to switch wire, for some reason it didn't want to feed .025" wire but .030 seems fine
02:44 PM Tom_L: not sure why really
02:44 PM gloops: Todd_Z for the record, i had that idea completely independent of any other company or engineer, iot was a stroke of genius on the scale of the hydrogen filled airship
02:46 PM Todd_Z: How long ago did you have it? Because I've seen machines built in the 80s with C-axis aggregate heads.
02:46 PM gloops: 20 minutes ago
02:47 PM gloops: i will make my prototype with a cutter block from a hand electric planer, about 3 inch wide
02:48 PM Todd_Z: If you can find a way to ecconomically build and sell aggregate heads for high speed spindles now that would be something.
02:48 PM Todd_Z: If you have ever priced them, they aren't cheep.
02:50 PM gloops: ive already made one for a planer thicknesser, its a cinch
03:12 PM gloops: vertical v horizontal spindle is an interesting thing to ponder
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.techniksusa.com/images2008/router_tooling/specials_group_webres.jpg aggregate head featuring horizontal chain saw
03:51 PM XXCoder: perfect for wood I guess
03:52 PM XXCoder: wood you get it?
03:52 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, i tried to see if that guy had your cap screws but he closes at 12 on fridays
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: thanks, no rush
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: finding ones close enough for 1/2 the prices yesterday @ MSC was a good start
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: wood eye, would I, know the joke?
03:55 PM XXCoder: hmm I cant figure what eye would sound like. I guess you?
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: that's what you said didn't I?
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: are Bridgeport heads swappable without having to machine anything?
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: between series say from an old step pulley J-head to a variable speed head?
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/bridgeport-and-hardinge-mills-and-lathes/bridgeport-head-swap-169861/
03:59 PM roycroft: i think they are, to some degree at least
03:59 PM roycroft: but it might be cheaper and easier to install a vfd and use the old head with that
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: does anyone sell higher speed spindle bearings for them? say up to 7k rpm
04:06 PM Deejay: gn8
04:06 PM roycroft: that i don't know
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: i saw that they made some with the 5440 rpm option
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: uses a 2x speed 3ph motor
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.theequipmenthub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jg-151424-11.jpg
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/bridgeport-and-hardinge-mills-and-lathes/bridgeport-high-speed-m-head-117478/ says they offered speeds up to 12/750 rpm
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: 12,750 rpm
05:13 PM archivist: miss0r, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/manuals/IM74_NEC_multisync/
05:35 PM Tom_L: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/bridgeport-and-hardinge-mills-and-lathes/best-bearings-bridgeport-m-head-292175/
05:37 PM Elmoo40: gloops, I am a fan of horizontal spindle. Chips clear away better ;-)
05:38 PM Elmoo40: Plus, when you make it a 4-axis machine you use a tombstone with 4-sides. it is basically 4x machines!
05:45 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
05:45 PM archivist: but they dont make the arm long enough so you have to extend on a horizontal http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1249.JPG
05:46 PM malcom2073: Wolf__ ping
05:48 PM hazzy: CaptHindsight: Have you looked at what speeds the standard issue BP bearings are rated to? IIRC they are rated for something like 12,000 with grease and 15,000 with oil. They are light preload bearings
06:54 PM roycroft: i need a disconnect for my cooling pump so that i can service it
06:55 PM roycroft: it's 250vac, 3a max (probably more like 1.5a)
06:55 PM roycroft: i would use an l6 plug and inline receptacle, but those things are huge and overkill for this
06:55 PM roycroft: any suggestions for a smallish inline connector for that?
06:56 PM jdh: bare wires held in with wooden skewers
06:56 PM roycroft: i'll probably use 14ga wire for it, because water and stuff and it has a 14-3 sj cable on it already with a watertight seal where it enters the pump
06:56 PM roycroft: i want something locking, because of vibration
06:57 PM jdh: normal vac loking plugs are pretty bulky
06:57 PM jdh: but for 3 amps, you could use pretty much anything
06:57 PM roycroft: aircraft connectors are probably ok
06:57 PM roycroft: the mains coming in will be 20a, but i'm going to fuse the pump leg at whatever it needs
06:57 PM roycroft: i think the pump is 1/8hp
06:58 PM roycroft: so maybe it's more like 1a
06:59 PM roycroft: my spindle has a 4 pin aircraft connector, and it's 2.2kw
06:59 PM roycroft: so i'm sure a tiny pump will be ok with that kind of connector
07:00 PM jdh: my chinese spindle pump has about the same connector
07:00 PM roycroft: yeah, the ones i'm finding are rated at 400v
07:00 PM roycroft: and i have some 2 pin ones in stock
07:00 PM roycroft: i'll see if the connector fits around the power cable to the pump
07:01 PM roycroft: 3 pin connectors are not as common as i'd have guessed
07:01 PM roycroft: but 2 pin and 4 pin are very common
07:01 PM roycroft: and 4 pin would work
07:01 PM jdh: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz5kbenmrw4VdzJqbGhha0d5aDFWLWxiRXEycVA4aTUxV19B/view
07:01 PM roycroft: that's probably why the spindle has a 4 pin connector, when it only uses 3 pins
07:01 PM jdh: guess which ones I had to painfully track down
07:01 PM jdh: in theory, the 4th should be shield/ground. Just unconnected on mine.
07:02 PM roycroft: yes, same with mine
07:02 PM roycroft: hmm, i might have some 3 pin connectors in stock
07:02 PM roycroft: something in the back of my mind tells me i used some for my brew system control panel
07:03 PM roycroft: and it's almost always cheaper to buy a dozen from china than to buy one chinese import shipped from the us
07:03 PM roycroft: so i probably ordered a dozen and used 3 or 4
07:03 PM roycroft: ooh
07:04 PM roycroft: i have a bunch of inline 3 pin xlr connectors
07:04 PM roycroft: i forgot i had those
07:04 PM roycroft: i need to check the voltage rating on them
07:04 PM roycroft: microphones usually don't push anywhere near 250v :)
07:08 PM roycroft: yeah, i have a bunch, but they have no specs printed on the connectors or the packages
07:09 PM roycroft: teh digikey will probably help me with that
07:09 PM roycroft: i don't think i can easily solder 14ga wires to them either
07:09 PM roycroft: but i can probaby drop down to 18ga or so
07:10 PM roycroft: as is usualy with my projects, this one was doing fine on budget until all the bells and whistles started creeping in
07:10 PM roycroft: so now the budget is blown
07:10 PM roycroft: and using stuff i have in stock is helpful
07:12 PM roycroft: and the ones i find there are rated at 133v for the male plugs, and 125v for the female inline connectors
07:12 PM roycroft: so no xlr for me
07:47 PM Contract_Pilot: Evening
07:51 PM roycroft: looks like 4 pin aviation connector is going to be the thign, which i was trying to avoid, since the spindle already uses a 4 pin aviation connector
07:52 PM roycroft: i have this thing about idiotproofing connectors, even though i label them clearly
07:52 PM roycroft: the spindle is 3 phase, and the pump single phase, so i'd rather not use the same type of connector for both
07:53 PM roycroft: but the alternatives seem to be either big and bulky or werid, proprietary, and expensive
07:53 PM MarcelineVQ: what about a barrel jack for 1ph?
07:53 PM MarcelineVQ: ah nah I guess pump would want a ground
07:54 PM roycroft: yes, it wants a ground
07:54 PM roycroft: and it has water
07:54 PM roycroft: so i want a ground :)
07:54 PM MarcelineVQ: ye
07:54 PM roycroft: oh
07:54 PM roycroft: i can physically isolate the connectors
07:55 PM roycroft: i can put the disconnect for the spindle inside the box taht contains it for dust collection purposes
07:55 PM roycroft: and put the disconnect outside that box
07:55 PM roycroft: it would be impossible to connect them incorrectly by accident
07:56 PM roycroft: that's not so bad then
07:56 PM roycroft: disconnect for the pump outside the box, rather
07:57 PM MarcelineVQ: are you gonna have pump on gfi?
08:10 PM andypugh: roycroft: I like: https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/neutrik-nl4fx-4-pole-speakon-connector-n22aj for 3-phase motors.
08:11 PM andypugh: Technically they are speaker connectors (hence the name) But if you look at the spec, it’s 250V and 40A rating.
08:12 PM andypugh: Chassis sockets (https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/neutrik-nlt4mp-4-pole-male-chassis-speakon-connector-n50gb) are also airtight, which is a nice bonus.
08:19 PM roycroft: you know, i wasn't planning on that, marcelinevq
08:20 PM roycroft: and i'm not sure how i would do it, since it's a 250vac circuit without a neutral tap
08:20 PM MarcelineVQ: submersible pumps are a bit scary :X
08:20 PM roycroft: the pump itself is not submersible
08:21 PM MarcelineVQ: that's good news ehe, is it peristaltic?
08:21 PM roycroft: i'm using this:
08:21 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232383121796
08:21 PM roycroft: not peristaltic
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy: have a link? Everyone claims to have compatible bearings?
08:22 PM roycroft: it's way more pump than that spindle needs, i'm sure
08:22 PM roycroft: but the electrical part of the pump sits above the tank
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: somebody somewhere has the ID OD and height for them, thats all I need to find something suitable
08:23 PM roycroft: ooh, i just remembered that i have a whole spool of 18-3 sj
08:23 PM roycroft: so i can rewire that pump with 18ga wire easily
08:23 PM MarcelineVQ: That's an advantage for sure. Would be scary for the pump to send power into your spindle. You can put in a gfi breaker, possibly, between the pump and the wall if you did want gfi. Not sure if you need to have those at the breaker panel for them to work
08:23 PM roycroft: and i *know* i can fit the 18ga cable to the aviation connectors
08:23 PM roycroft: yes, i'm thinking that right now
08:24 PM roycroft: i have an inline fuse for the pump
08:24 PM roycroft: but i might be able to find a 250v gfi breaker to use instead
08:25 PM roycroft: i haven't done the wiring diagram yet, but i'm going to bring 250vac@20a into the cabinet
08:25 PM roycroft: split it out to the pump with a fused link, and to the vfd, which will convert to 3 phase, of course
08:25 PM roycroft: the vfd can handle the full 20a, so i don't need to fuse that
08:25 PM MarcelineVQ: Do you use any particular software for wiring dia. or just write it out?
08:25 PM roycroft: i use autocad
08:26 PM roycroft: which is a very tedious way of doing it
08:26 PM roycroft: but it works
08:26 PM MarcelineVQ: ehe
08:26 PM MarcelineVQ: makes some sense actually, could probably do the same in fusion sketches if a person was patient
08:27 PM MarcelineVQ: not sure if you can color things there though, which would be somewhat desirable
08:28 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanelWiring/ChassisWiringDiagram.pdf
08:28 PM roycroft: that's one of the wiring diagrams for my brew system control panel, for example
08:28 PM roycroft: i spent a lot of time on that
08:28 PM roycroft: and it's not the final version
08:28 PM roycroft: but it gives one an idea of what can be done with autocad
08:29 PM roycroft: and i don't have autocad electrical
08:29 PM roycroft: which is not great for wiring diagrams/schematics, but it's better than generic autocad
08:30 PM MarcelineVQ: neato
08:30 PM roycroft: it made wiring the thing really easy when it came time to do that, though
08:31 PM MarcelineVQ: I tried doing similar in eagle but it's kind of a pain in the ass to make each component in it, that could just be inexperience talking though
08:32 PM roycroft: a little of both
08:32 PM roycroft: experience teaches you that it's still a pain in the arse, but worth it :)
08:32 PM MarcelineVQ: hoh
08:34 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanel/ControlPanelChassis.jpeg
08:34 PM roycroft: that's the control panel that that diagram was made for
08:35 PM MarcelineVQ: so tidy :> where do your source your components?
08:35 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanel/ControlPanelFrontPanel.jpeg
08:35 PM roycroft: and the panel itself
08:35 PM roycroft: i source from ebay, amazon, mouser, digi-key
08:35 PM roycroft: and other places, but those are my main sources
08:37 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanelWiring/FirstPowerUp/FrontPanelPowered.jpeg
08:37 PM roycroft: and that's my user interface
08:37 PM roycroft: only partially powered
08:38 PM MarcelineVQ: 4 more switches and you could fly a small plane with that
08:38 PM roycroft: yeah
08:38 PM roycroft: but it makes beer
08:38 PM roycroft: which is better than flying a plane :)
08:38 PM MarcelineVQ: that does sound likely
08:42 PM MarcelineVQ: I ​really like how creative everyone here is :> beer is an important problem to solve
08:45 PM roycroft: i am getting old
08:45 PM roycroft: the brew system i built lets me move large amounts of boiling hot liquids from one vessel to another via pumps and valves
08:46 PM roycroft: whereas my old systems required me to lift and climb and pour stuff
08:46 PM roycroft: i no longer want to do that
08:46 PM roycroft: i am no longer capable of comfortably doing that
08:47 PM roycroft: thus the fancy brew system
08:50 PM MarcelineVQ: Are you mostly classic, wheat and barley with hops sort of thing?
09:34 PM roycroft: i do all sorts of things
09:34 PM evilroot: o.O
09:34 PM evilroot: That rivals the controls I've seen at full scale breweries
09:34 PM roycroft: my house beers are an english bitter, styled after timothy taylor landlord, and 80/ scottish ale
09:34 PM roycroft: i have won awards for the 80/
09:35 PM roycroft: but i make wheat beers, fruit beers, pilsners, stouts, porters, and quite a few gruits (non-hopped)
09:35 PM roycroft: another beer that i brew fairly often is a 6000-year-old pictish beer - fraoch leann
09:36 PM evilroot: Nice. Too many brewers are all about IPAs
09:36 PM evilroot: Give me a malty beer any day :-D
09:36 PM roycroft: it's a scottish ale, lighter than the 80/, with bog myrtle, marsh rosemary, and heather tips for the bittering
09:36 PM roycroft: you would like my 80/, evilroot
09:36 PM roycroft: it is very malt forward
09:37 PM evilroot: Yeah, 80 schilling is usually great
09:37 PM roycroft: i'm from the pacific northwet, evilroot
09:37 PM hazzy: Oh, no. Trees are falling because they are covered in ice and heavy, and they have taken the power lines down with them. At least I have a generator, but the other neighbors aren't so well off.
09:37 PM roycroft: i got burned out on over the top ipas in the '80s :)
09:37 PM evilroot: Haha
09:37 PM evilroot: They're all the damned rage now
09:37 PM MarcelineVQ: hazzy: now's your chance to ration them some power for fistfulls of dollars
09:37 PM roycroft: yes
09:37 PM evilroot: Pisses me off
09:37 PM evilroot: hazzy: same here, getting ugly out
09:38 PM * evilroot is in NC
09:38 PM roycroft: we have a big high pressure ridge parked just off the coast
09:38 PM evilroot: We're not used to snow and ice, heh
09:38 PM roycroft: it means clear skies and cold temperatures for the forseeable future
09:38 PM roycroft: december is traditionally our wettest month
09:38 PM roycroft: we've had only a tiny bit of rain so far this month
09:38 PM roycroft: and no rain in the forecast until at least christmas
09:38 PM evilroot: Its rare for it to snow here, ever
09:39 PM evilroot: But today was plain ugly. First sleet, then snow, now freezing rain
09:39 PM roycroft: it may end up being our driest december ever
09:39 PM roycroft: yeah, it usually snows here once/year or so
09:40 PM roycroft: and it melts the next day almost every time it does snow
09:40 PM evilroot: roycroft: I've gotten to try the "best beer in the world"
09:40 PM evilroot: :D
09:40 PM roycroft: westvlateren 12?
09:40 PM evilroot: Yep!
09:40 PM roycroft: i have three bottles left :)
09:40 PM evilroot: Haha nice
09:40 PM roycroft: i drink one bottle/year
09:40 PM evilroot: There was a huge run on it here
09:41 PM evilroot: Was really tough to get
09:41 PM roycroft: but i have also brewed a westy 12 "clone" that is very close to the real thing
09:41 PM roycroft: i still have some of that on tap
09:41 PM roycroft: and if i get down to it, i can make that even better
09:42 PM roycroft: a couple brewing friends of mine spent literally years researching, testing, and tweaking their clone recipe
09:42 PM roycroft: it's the only clone recipe that i have ever used
09:42 PM evilroot: Two bottles I cracked with a few friends and made a meal to go with it: spiced lamb meatballs with apricot reduction sauce, a cheese and fruit plate, and various nuts
09:42 PM roycroft: i like to develop my own recipes
09:42 PM roycroft: but i really like westy12
09:42 PM roycroft: and those guys are really good brewers
09:42 PM evilroot: Two I had on Christmas with my brother and Father
09:42 PM roycroft: my first go was very very good using their recipe, in spite of a couple major process flaws
09:42 PM evilroot: (Who's German and knows his beer, and was damned impressed)
09:43 PM roycroft: germans do not know beer, generally speaking, as the world at large think they do :)
09:43 PM evilroot: One I gave to my best friend as a gift, and one to the brewmaster at my favorite local brewery
09:43 PM evilroot: Well my Dad does, heh
09:43 PM evilroot: And wine, spirits, etc. Likes his alcohol
09:44 PM roycroft: back in the late '70s (1978, i think, but i'm not certain), before homebrewing was legal here, and before americans had ever heard of belgian ale, i was on a trip to germany
09:44 PM roycroft: we flew icelandic airlines to get there and back
09:44 PM roycroft: our continental connection was luxembourg
09:44 PM * evilroot was born in 82, heh
09:44 PM roycroft: on the day of our return flight, we drove to the airport in luxembourg
09:45 PM roycroft: and found out that there was a general labor strike that had just started in iceland, and we could not land and refuel in keflavik
09:45 PM evilroot: Haven't been to Germany myself, despite the family being from there
09:45 PM roycroft: we had to sit in the airport for several hours while the airline was sorting out the logistics of landing in newfoundland for refueling
09:45 PM roycroft: and they offered all the passengers free food and beer
09:45 PM evilroot: Have been to Austria though, which was awesome
09:45 PM roycroft: the beer was belgian ale
09:45 PM evilroot: Haha nice
09:46 PM roycroft: which, as i said, americans had never heard of
09:46 PM roycroft: i was impressed
09:46 PM roycroft: and very drunk by the time we finally boarded our flight :)
09:46 PM evilroot: Best way to fly
09:46 PM roycroft: but i've been seeking out belgian brews ever since
09:46 PM roycroft: and brew a lot of belgian styles
09:46 PM evilroot: My personal favorite was one a local brewery used to make
09:46 PM roycroft: i make a pretty good dubbel and tripel
09:46 PM evilroot: "Foehammer"
09:47 PM roycroft: but the strong dark ale - the westy 12 "clone" - is the best i've made
09:47 PM roycroft: the problem with it is that it's 11.5% abv
09:47 PM roycroft: so one drinks small amounts at a time
09:47 PM evilroot: Foehammer was 10.5%
09:47 PM roycroft: makes it hard to brew it repeatedly to dial in the recipe and process
09:47 PM evilroot: Technically a barleywine
09:48 PM roycroft: also, a good belgian strong dark ale needs to age for at least a year before it starts tasting decent
09:48 PM evilroot: True of a lot of really good dark beers
09:48 PM roycroft: whereas a bavarian hefeweizen goes from grain to glass in 9 days
09:48 PM evilroot: With high ABC
09:48 PM roycroft: and doesn't keep well
09:48 PM roycroft: so it needs to be drunk very young
09:49 PM roycroft: which is why my bavarian hefeweizen is better than most bavarian hefeweizens that are imported from germany
09:49 PM evilroot: Here in Durham there's a really strong beer culture
09:49 PM roycroft: it just takes to bloody long to get them here
09:49 PM evilroot: Lot of independent breweries
09:49 PM roycroft: and they fade continuously on the boat
09:50 PM evilroot: Yeah
09:50 PM evilroot: Fullsteam Brewery near me makes a really good seasonal hefeweizen
09:51 PM roycroft: yeah, i can imagine that durham has a lot of microbreweries
09:51 PM roycroft: i'm in eugene
09:51 PM roycroft: we have heaps of them
09:51 PM evilroot: Durham has really changed in the last few years
09:51 PM roycroft: we have two cideries, a meadery, and a braggotry
09:51 PM evilroot: They completely rebuilt Downtown
09:51 PM evilroot: Its actually . . . . nice
09:51 PM roycroft: durham is a nice, modern, progressive city surrounded by the 19th century
09:52 PM evilroot: Not really, Durham was a cesspool and nasty until just recently
09:52 PM roycroft: yes, i'm talking about now
09:52 PM evilroot: Whereas Chapel Hill, Cary, and Raleigh were so much better
09:52 PM roycroft: i know the transformation is very recent
09:53 PM evilroot: The place I'm living in right now was a crackhouse a year ago, heh
09:53 PM evilroot: This used to be a REALLY bad neighborhood
09:54 PM evilroot: My father's studio is on the same block, as a teenager I knew not to go here after dark
09:54 PM evilroot: Now its all young families
09:55 PM evilroot: And a few elderly who think its the coolest thing ever to have neighbors that actually talk to and help them
10:00 PM roycroft: that, sadly, is something that's going by the wayside
10:00 PM roycroft: generally
10:01 PM roycroft: in this age of texting and tweeting, people form social groups online instead of in person
10:01 PM roycroft: and my belief is that is the major cause of the political schism we have in the us these days
10:02 PM roycroft: people don't have to interact with other people who aren't like them and share their beliefs
10:02 PM roycroft: and so they become more and more distanced from folks who have differing ideas
11:13 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by verne.freenode.net
11:16 PM Tom_itx is now known as Guest54160
11:16 PM Tom_L is now known as Guest43982
11:26 PM homicidlbrainiac: I am trying to learn more about LinuxCNC and writing my own machine controller in the process. Can LinuxCNC generate step pulses directly? I think it can, but what is the maximum frequency it can generate?
11:28 PM homicidlbrainiac: I am trying to understand how to set the tick period for an RTOS. A lot seem to discourage anything more than 1000 ticks per second
11:28 PM homicidlbrainiac: but I can imagine some machines needing higher pulse rates.
11:31 PM evilroot: It can
11:32 PM hazzy: homicidlbrainiac: I am not very knowledgeable about these things, but I think the main limitation on step rate is system latency. Using the parport a machine with good latency of 6000 nS you could step once every 10 uS
11:32 PM evilroot: Yeah, depends heavily on the machine
11:33 PM evilroot: There are built-in tests to find out exactly what you can do
11:33 PM evilroot: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
11:34 PM evilroot: That lays it out pretty well
11:34 PM hazzy: Keep in mind that a lot of people use FPGA cards to off load the step generation, so the PC latency is not nearly as important
11:35 PM homicidlbrainiac: Yeah that's what I'm seeing
11:35 PM homicidlbrainiac: velocity control going to stepper generator
11:35 PM homicidlbrainiac: which I absolutely like
11:35 PM homicidlbrainiac: I was wondering about doing a hybrid approach
11:36 PM homicidlbrainiac: with a single thread run on a high speed interrupt (but not really part of the RTOS) that runs interpolators and step generators, etc.
11:36 PM homicidlbrainiac: and then other threads hooked into the RTOS
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: this used to come up about every day or so at the peak of reprap
11:36 PM homicidlbrainiac: to kind of avoid the overhead of the RTOS
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: now it's about once a week
11:38 PM homicidlbrainiac: What were people trying to do with their reprap- have LinuxCNC generate step pulses directly?
11:38 PM hazzy: Ok, I am running off a noisy generator, and its late, so a better shut is down so the neighbors can sleep
11:38 PM hazzy: gn8
11:40 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by verne.freenode.net
11:40 PM Tom_garage is now known as Tom_shop
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC_Components
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: Detailed Control Diagrams ^^
11:41 PM Tom_shop: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Y_Axis_Plate3.jpg
11:41 PM Tom_shop: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Axis_Plate2.jpg
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/emcmot03.svg
11:41 PM homicidlbrainiac: Yeah I have a very similar approach in the machine controller I'm writing
11:43 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC has been in development for ~20 years
11:43 PM homicidlbrainiac: yup
11:43 PM homicidlbrainiac: it's basically machine control done right
11:43 PM homicidlbrainiac: I haven't seen anything better actually
11:44 PM Tom_shop is now known as Tom_sbc
11:44 PM Tom_sbc is now known as Tom_Shop
11:44 PM homicidlbrainiac: I'm mainly trying to write my own controller to really grok machine controllers.
11:44 PM Tom_Shop: stupid irc servers
11:44 PM homicidlbrainiac: It's really the only way I learn
11:44 PM CaptHindsight: feel free to fork it :)
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: high speed interrupt with an RTOS?
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: or without an RTOS?
11:46 PM homicidlbrainiac: Well that's just it. I'm defacto chinese walling LinuxCNC for midrange microcontrollers. What I might do when I finish my project is then do a deep read of LinuxCNC source and try to port it to midrange microcontrollers, like PIC32MX/MZ series
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: it wouldn't be a port
11:46 PM homicidlbrainiac: well I was thinking of doing both, one super high speed interrupt just to run interpolators and stepper drivers, and then an RTOS on top of that for slower tasks.
11:47 PM homicidlbrainiac: I don't want to do a timer tick on the RTOS at 32KHz due to the enormous overhead
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: what CPU?
11:48 PM homicidlbrainiac: Right now I am doing it for two processors- PIC32MX460F512L and the PIC32MZ2048ECG144
11:48 PM CaptHindsight: take a look at the block diagrams
11:48 PM homicidlbrainiac: but I wouldn't mind picking up all sorts of other microcontrollers
11:48 PM homicidlbrainiac: OK, which one specifically? I have seen the block diagrams before
11:49 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/EMC_Control_LG.gif
11:49 PM homicidlbrainiac: oh, where it breaks off into realtime hardware?
11:50 PM homicidlbrainiac: sorry for being obtuse, been awake too long
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: software stepping is done on the PC's CPU
11:51 PM homicidlbrainiac: I assumed as much
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: hardware stepping is done with a FPGA
11:51 PM homicidlbrainiac: Yes, I get that too
11:52 PM homicidlbrainiac: I think in this case, I am having the controller I am writing do both
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: open loop stepping ignores all the closed loop features
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: of LCNC
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: the devs could support two projects but they only wish to support one
11:53 PM homicidlbrainiac: the machine controller I'm writing treats everything as a servo. So you have interpolators->servo->step vel generator. of course the step generator takes in velocity input, gives back a virtual encoder reading back to the servo.
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: the PC runs the GUI, non-real time and the real time
11:54 PM homicidlbrainiac: in the case of generating stepper pulses in software
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: I thought that this was a comedy sketch making fun of the wall http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-42288681/trump-s-border-wall-climbing-tests-begin-on-prototypes
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: but it's serious :)
11:59 PM homicidlbrainiac: we talk politics here? oh goody!
11:59 PM evilroot: Dammit
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: nah, I want a job testing walls