#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 01 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: hi
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: Elmoo40: still online
01:48 AM Deejay: moin
02:01 AM arekmx is now known as arekm
04:49 AM jthornton: morning
04:55 AM XXCoder: heys
04:55 AM XXCoder: jthornton: bah finally had a scrap
04:55 AM XXCoder: been a while. :(
04:55 AM XXCoder: it was stupid reason even, which just makes it worse
04:59 AM jthornton: our riding buddy used to work for boeing in st louis and ran a drilling machine, once he put an extra hole in a part and kept making them without getting an inspection almost lost his job
05:01 AM XXCoder: wow pretty bad
05:01 AM XXCoder: anyway in my case, I didn't get part against pin on one end
05:02 AM XXCoder: so it was 0.0135 short
05:02 AM XXCoder: just .0035 over tol dammit
05:02 AM jthornton: chip or something held it off the pin?
05:02 AM XXCoder: nah I just failed to do it
05:02 AM XXCoder: thats why its stupid
05:07 AM jthornton: yea I hate when I make a dumb mistake
05:09 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: I meant to ask, what sort of controller and transmission is your pcb milling machine equipped with?
05:09 AM XXCoder: in least it didnt kill $1000 cat50 taper
05:09 AM XXCoder: like my worse mistake ever while working with cnc machine
05:10 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: and by transmission I mean ballscrews or belts etc in case I'm not using that word correctly
05:11 AM Loetmichel: <- is true to his name atm... soldering for a day now... and no end in sight... maaan i am getting to old for 0,6mm pitch chips without a magnifying glass.. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16900&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:13 AM MarcelineVQ: did you say what these were for? can't recall.
05:13 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ : its a chinese controller that came with the CNC6040. 4* TB6560 IIRC. The machine has ballscrews on all axis, supported 20mm rails on x (gantry) and unsupported 20mm rails on y and z
05:14 AM MarcelineVQ: thank you, ballscrews really are quite fast then
05:18 AM Loetmichel: these boards are amplifiers for 1W speakers in the frame of a 24" military TFT+ thin client.
05:19 AM MarcelineVQ: ah are those the same frames you've been showing images of recently?
05:21 AM Loetmichel: yes
05:22 AM Loetmichel: our pick and place guy has let us down. he should have delivered 130 of these on monday... we SHOULD have delivered the first 20 of these clients today...
05:22 AM MarcelineVQ: and that's why you're solding it yourself or is that something you'd be doing anyway?
05:25 AM MarcelineVQ: does your machine have positional feedback to account for ballscrew slip or is it not a thing that's been an issue so far?
05:26 AM Deejay: re
05:28 AM Elmoo40: Loetmichel, you have a chinese 6040 machine? i was looking into getting something small like that.
05:29 AM Elmoo40: they are mainly a router table, right? tiny ballscrews on them. nema34 motors?
05:30 AM XXCoder: typically nema24
05:30 AM XXCoder: *23
05:30 AM XXCoder: or whatever close that size lol cant recall this moment for some reason
05:31 AM MarcelineVQ: 17 23 34
05:31 AM MarcelineVQ: are the commons, afaik :>
05:31 AM Elmoo40: oh, little guys.
05:31 AM Loetmichel: Elmoo40: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:31 AM XXCoder: my 3d printer uses nema17. tiny steppers.
05:32 AM XXCoder: my cnc router uses nema23s
05:32 AM Loetmichel: nema23, 16*5 ballscrews
05:38 AM XXCoder: wow cuecat on sale to $5 lol
05:38 AM XXCoder: anyone want real cheap barcode scanner/aka hardcore password generator?
05:38 AM XXCoder: https://www.librarything.com/more/store/cuecat
06:02 AM Contract_Pilot: I had one of them when they were free at radio shack back in the 90's hahaha
06:02 AM Contract_Pilot: cuecat
06:10 AM XXCoder: Contract_Pilot: ps2 connector one?
06:11 AM Contract_Pilot: I think it was between the key board back then
06:11 AM XXCoder: theres only 2 types, ps2 type and then-rare usb one
06:12 AM Contract_Pilot: I may still have it in a box in the attic have not got to tyhat section yet in the clean out.
06:14 AM Contract_Pilot: Ok, got the 2 small windows replaced and trimmed on the inside.
06:15 AM Contract_Pilot: Not a Carptenter
06:17 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/EF340FBC-A5E6-4243-B680-7E3B6E4496F7-1024x768.jpeg
06:18 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/B3BB4F9D-5ACD-43DF-91D8-4A5BF824EA35-1024x768.jpeg
06:19 AM Contract_Pilot: Moulding could have went to the right 1/16"
06:20 AM Contract_Pilot: Even with a decent miter saw i need to learn the trick to it!!
06:24 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:24 AM IchGucksLive: Elmoo40: still online
06:43 AM IchGucksLive: hi Weiler810
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: Weiler810: legt schnee bei euch
06:44 AM Weiler810: jo,ca 10cm
06:47 AM Weiler810: Jch geh mir jetzt ein Schnitzel braten ;) , grias di
08:18 AM Elmoo40: IchGucksLive hi
09:04 AM roycroft: hey folks
09:04 AM roycroft: i am not in a position to test this right now, so hopefully someone will know the answer
09:05 AM roycroft: if i have a huanyang vfd in run mode, i.e. output switched on, and there is a power failure, when the mains is restored will it resume operation or will it default to off?
09:06 AM roycroft: i need to know whether i need a safety interlock circuit in my router table
09:06 AM MarcelineVQ: depends what setting it was left on from the factory, the default is off in the manual
09:06 AM roycroft: oh, i didn't see a setting for that
09:07 AM roycroft: but there are ~150 settings, so i could have missed it
09:07 AM MarcelineVQ: ye, lemme see if I can find it
09:07 AM roycroft: thanks
09:07 AM roycroft: no need
09:07 AM roycroft: if it can be handled on the vfd i don't need that extra circuitry
09:07 AM roycroft: and my life is simplified - space is really tight in my control panel for such things
09:14 AM MarcelineVQ: looks like pd153 and possibly 155
09:14 AM roycroft: awesome - thanks
09:14 AM roycroft: i'll experiment over the weekend
09:14 AM roycroft: but i can move on with my design documents in the meantime
09:15 AM MarcelineVQ: I'd go and test it for you but I've only got the one, rather not upset it without a good reason hehe
09:20 AM JT-Shop: geeze this guys calls me almost everyday with questions...
09:22 AM MarcelineVQ: charge a consultation fee :X
09:23 AM FinboySlick: JT-Shop: Curse of the competent.
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: Elmoo40: still here
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: its a on off relation
09:25 AM IchGucksLive: JT-Shop: use a callservice
09:26 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off till later
09:33 AM JT-Shop: I assume a callservice costs money...
11:49 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:49 AM gloops: explaining why the backlash on a leadscrew driven cnc lathe DOES matter is a bit awkward
11:58 AM rene-dev: hazzy I made some progress with the mode switching buf
11:58 AM rene-dev: bug
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: do you know where Elmoo40 is from
12:08 PM gloops: no never heard of them Ichs
12:11 PM CaptHindsight: from the internet?
12:12 PM gloops: [Elmoo40] (~GRAE@198-48-238-16.cpe.pppoe.ca): fakename
12:13 PM stjohn: gloops: explaining why it didn´t matter would be more awkward? no... lol
12:13 PM gloops: well i have explained now - a cnc driven leadscrew is different to a live leadscrew on a manual lathe Mark, a live leadscrew is mechanically synchronised with the rotation of the spindle, providing the gearing between screw and spindle are not disturbed, and the cutter cuts in the same direction, on the same leading edge of the screw, it can only ever follow one spiral path along the workpiece, the relationship between spindle
12:13 PM gloops: rotation and screw rotation on a cnc lathe is maintained solely by the control software, if there is any backlash the synchronisation is lost as the motor is making steps which do not rotate the leadscrew, as they unwind the backlash - but the spindle keeps turning
12:15 PM gloops: am i right?
12:15 PM roycroft: cnc controllers can generally compensate for backlash, but that's kind of an ugly hack
12:16 PM pcw_mesa_: I dont think so a geared Z can have backlash (probably more) than a CNC ball screw
12:17 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: no
12:17 PM gloops: yes certainly backlash can be compensated for, but assuming the cnc controller doesnt know there is any backlash
12:17 PM gloops: SpeedEvil, could you tell me why?
12:17 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: you are assuming that the CNC controller does not choose to only operate in one direction, which it's quite free to
12:18 PM SpeedEvil: Maybe 'no' was strong, but it's not the whole answer
12:18 PM gloops: i assuming the cnc is going to cut in exactly the same direction as the manual
12:18 PM gloops: one direction only
12:18 PM pcw_mesa_: unidirections electronic gearing should be equivalent to mechanical gears
12:18 PM SpeedEvil: Backlash only matters if you cut both directions
12:18 PM pcw_mesa_: likely better
12:18 PM gloops: no it doesnt
12:19 PM gloops: pcw im not familair with that
12:19 PM Jymmm: pcw_mesa_: What about omni-directional electronic gearing?
12:19 PM SpeedEvil: If you don't, then as long as you are moving the cutter >backlash, the cut ends up in the same place.
12:20 PM gloops: well lets sat i start a thread at x0 and end it at x10, the screw has 1 mm backlash
12:20 PM gloops: cut ends, tool backs off, returns to...x1
12:20 PM roycroft: it should return to x-1
12:20 PM roycroft: just as on a manual lathe
12:20 PM gloops: but it wont
12:21 PM roycroft: ok
12:21 PM roycroft: because of backlash
12:21 PM roycroft: it returns to x-random
12:21 PM roycroft: which it thinks is x-1
12:21 PM roycroft: just as on a manual lathe
12:21 PM gloops: the steps required to move the cutter that distance - some are used to unwind the 1mm
12:21 PM SpeedEvil: Backlash can be perfectly compensated for.
12:21 PM pcw_mesa_: I dont really see an distinction between a gear driven Z and electronic gearing (both have backlash)
12:21 PM roycroft: and then it starts cutting at x0 again
12:21 PM roycroft: by the time it gets from x-random back to x0 it's synchronzed again
12:21 PM SpeedEvil: In that you always tell the machine to move 2mm in x before a cut
12:22 PM roycroft: just as on a manual lathe
12:22 PM SpeedEvil: (where 2mm is maximum possible backlash, for example)
12:22 PM gloops: roy it wont make it back the beginning the first time, its 1mm behind
12:22 PM roycroft: which is why you overshoot
12:22 PM gloops: yes but for the purposes of this we are ignoring the backlash
12:22 PM roycroft: your motor is not moving the cutter
12:22 PM roycroft: it's turning the lead screw
12:22 PM gloops: like we dont even know it exists, and the cnc doesnt
12:22 PM roycroft: right
12:23 PM gloops: the screw moves the cutter
12:23 PM roycroft: right
12:23 PM roycroft: so you have 0.012" backlash
12:24 PM roycroft: when you're done with your pass you back off to x-0.020" (for example)
12:24 PM roycroft: and then go forward 0.020" to get back to x0
12:24 PM roycroft: you're spot on now
12:24 PM gloops: yes right
12:24 PM gloops: if you compensate for it
12:24 PM roycroft: that's not compensating for it
12:25 PM roycroft: compensating for it means you know there's 0.012" backlash, so if you want to cut in the other direction you know you have to first move 0.012" before you start cutting
12:25 PM roycroft: backing off to more than the backlash amount and then going forward again is just indexing the cutter at x0
12:25 PM roycroft: i wouldn't call that compensating
12:26 PM roycroft: because you don't necessarily know how much backlash there is, and don't care
12:26 PM gloops: ok, let me get this in my mind, we have 1mm backlash, we start at x0 and move to x10 (in 10 steps, and travel 10mm) we make our first pass, stop, now we go back 10 steps to the beginning
12:26 PM roycroft: you would not do that manually
12:26 PM roycroft: why would you do it with cnc?
12:27 PM gloops: but 1 step is lost as the 1mm backlash is unwound, so the return - we end up at x1
12:27 PM roycroft: that's why you don't do that
12:27 PM gloops: there arent any steps in manual
12:27 PM roycroft: you start at x0 and move to x10
12:27 PM roycroft: then you move back 12 steps, then forward 2 steps
12:27 PM roycroft: then start again
12:27 PM gloops: the leadscrew is live, no matter what we do we cannot get out of sinc with the spindle
12:28 PM roycroft: how do you operate a lathe manually
12:28 PM roycroft: ?
12:28 PM gloops: with a lever
12:28 PM roycroft: you zero the cutter
12:28 PM roycroft: you set x
12:28 PM roycroft: you move z (usually towards the headstock)
12:28 PM roycroft: you back off x
12:28 PM roycroft: you move z back past your index point
12:29 PM roycroft: then move it forward to the index point
12:29 PM roycroft: then you set x to the second path depth
12:29 PM pcw_mesa_: you always retract Z beyond the start of the thread (because it takes a finite time for the x move)
12:29 PM roycroft: then move z
12:29 PM gloops: im calling x the direction of thread cut
12:29 PM gloops: so we are on z
12:29 PM roycroft: on a lathe z is usually parallel to the spindle axis
12:30 PM roycroft: anyway
12:30 PM gloops: ok, we start at z0 and move to z10 in 10 steps, 10 steps back - 1 step lost to backlash, we're at z1
12:30 PM roycroft: i think you're overcomplicating things
12:30 PM roycroft: this is the question:
12:30 PM gloops: im just explaining why the backlash matters
12:30 PM roycroft: when you finish a path
12:30 PM pcw_mesa_: nope it does not
12:30 PM roycroft: do you back off the cutter or do you want it to remain in contact with the part?
12:30 PM pcw_mesa_: (unless cutting forces reverse)
12:31 PM roycroft: if you back it off then you can overshoot to reindex without any issues at all
12:31 PM gloops: direction is reversed
12:31 PM roycroft: only if you keep the cutter in contact with the part does backlash matter
12:31 PM pcw_mesa_: right
12:31 PM gloops: roy on a manual lathe the screw is physically indexed to the spindle, you cannot get off the right path
12:31 PM pcw_mesa_: same with CNC
12:31 PM roycroft: yes
12:32 PM roycroft: as i said before
12:32 PM gloops: not at all
12:32 PM roycroft: your motor does not move the cutter
12:32 PM roycroft: it moves the screw
12:32 PM pcw_mesa_: yes it does
12:32 PM gloops: and the screw moves the cutter
12:32 PM roycroft: yes
12:32 PM roycroft: which means the screw is indexed to the spindle
12:32 PM gloops: yes by steps
12:32 PM pcw_mesa_: and they are electronically geared and indexed
12:33 PM roycroft: no, it's physically indexed to the spindle
12:33 PM gloops: whats physically indexed?
12:33 PM roycroft: turning it with a handcrank or turning it with a motor makes no difference
12:33 PM roycroft: the screw and the spindle are indexed
12:33 PM roycroft: via the gearing at the headstock
12:33 PM gloops: the spindle is not physically indexed to the screw on a cnc lathe
12:34 PM pcw_mesa_: it better than physically indexed
12:34 PM pcw_mesa_: its indexed with software gear ratios
12:34 PM roycroft: i'm sorry, but i'm not comprehending what you think makes it different when manually operated vs. motor operated
12:34 PM gloops: how can it be better than physical?
12:34 PM gloops: roycroft, verify or refute this statement
12:34 PM roycroft: look
12:35 PM gloops: no answer this
12:35 PM roycroft: if you're doing a manual operation on the lathe
12:35 PM roycroft: you turn a hand crank a given number of turns
12:35 PM roycroft: how is that different than telling a motor to turn a given number of steps?
12:36 PM roycroft: to get off on a tangent
12:36 PM gloops: ok, as you crank the spindle, on manual lathe, the leadscrew is physically indexed with the spindle, wherever the spindle sits radially, and the leadscrew - that relationship is maintained perfectly
12:36 PM gloops: it cannot change
12:36 PM roycroft: right
12:36 PM roycroft: and that is no different with cnc
12:37 PM pcw_mesa_: Same with CNC
12:37 PM gloops: totally different
12:37 PM roycroft: UNLESS
12:37 PM gloops: there is backlash
12:37 PM roycroft: you decouple the spindle from the lead screw when you cnc
12:37 PM gloops: what?
12:37 PM roycroft: perhaps that's what you're getting at
12:37 PM pcw_mesa_: there is backlash in both systems = no difference
12:38 PM gloops: im assuming we have 1 motor turning the leadscrew, and a different motor turning the spindle
12:38 PM roycroft: ok
12:38 PM gloops: i dont know of cnc lathes that used a gearbox to achieve spindle/screw sync
12:39 PM roycroft: actually, even if you do that then it's not an issue
12:39 PM roycroft: if you turn the leadscrew "forward" 12 steps to accomplish a pass
12:39 PM gloops: now come back to my example
12:39 PM roycroft: and then you reverse it 15 steps
12:39 PM gloops: yes?
12:39 PM roycroft: and then forward 3 steps
12:39 PM roycroft: you've reindexed it
12:39 PM roycroft: and do not have to have any concept of backlash
12:40 PM roycroft: you're just turning the screw
12:40 PM roycroft: the cutter goes where it goes
12:40 PM roycroft: when you're turning it in reverse you have no idea where the cutter is
12:40 PM gloops: im afraid that doesnt work
12:40 PM roycroft: but once you start turning it forward again you can reindex it
12:40 PM gloops: you havent re-indexed the screw at all
12:41 PM gloops: you got the lead back, but the spindle has moved
12:41 PM roycroft: but you know where the spindle is
12:41 PM roycroft: because your cnc software controls the spindle
12:42 PM roycroft: so you reindex the leadscrew, and then stop it until the spindle comes around to the correct position
12:42 PM roycroft: and then you get going again
12:42 PM gloops: ok, lets try that
12:42 PM roycroft: just as you would when engaging the half nut when cutting a thread manually
12:42 PM roycroft: you engage the half nut when the spindle is in the correct position
12:43 PM roycroft: that's what the marks on the half nut indicator tell you
12:47 PM gloops: yes, well i was just checking to see how many people in here actually knew about this
12:50 PM gloops: for me to demonstrate this properly we would have to include the degrees of spindle rotation relative to screw activity
12:50 PM gloops: which gets slightly messy for a chat setting
12:51 PM * roycroft is still not understanding the problem
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: spindel syncron movement
12:54 PM gloops: yes the controller attempts to synchronise spindle and screw
12:55 PM FinboySlick: gloops: I've only gone over the conversation quickly, but I think roycroft's approach to think of things as with a manual lathe is valid. When you back off to make another thread pass on a manual lathe, do you return the cutter exactly to x0 (the point on your x dial where you started the thread on the first pass)?
12:55 PM roycroft: and having said all of that
12:56 PM gloops: Finboy i might have confused things as i was initially using X to describe typical Z movement on a lathe
12:56 PM roycroft: acme lead screws are generally not as accurate as ball screws, backlash notwithstanding
12:58 PM djdelorie: why?
01:00 PM gloops: why? i generally think of that as the x axis
01:01 PM FinboySlick: gloops: The point he is making is that backlash won't matter if you're cutting in the same direction. What synchronizes your spindle to your cutter (electronic gearing vs real gearing) makes no difference. When it's geared, you essentially go back slightly before the start of your thread and you wait for the split nut to grab the leadscrew and make up for the backlash. With electronic gearing, you go back before the start of the thr
01:01 PM FinboySlick: ead, then forward to make up for backlash before you plunge the tool in.
01:02 PM gloops: im talking about the distance between centres travelled
01:03 PM roycroft: gloops: if you think about it, on a milling machine the z axis is parallel to the spindle
01:03 PM roycroft: it's the same thing on a lathe
01:03 PM roycroft: except the spindle is horizontal on a lathe, while it's vertical on a router or vertical milling machine
01:04 PM roycroft: i think you're mapping axes spatially relative to the operator, not the machine
01:04 PM FinboySlick: Well, I'm talking about whatever axis is synchronized to the spindle rotation. What I'm talking about is true if you're cutting a scroll chuck spiral or a conventional thread.
01:04 PM gloops: yes, i should have stated which direction i was calling X, i naturally think of it that way
01:05 PM roycroft: the point i was starting to make about acme leadscrews generally not being as accurate as ball screws is that if your cnc motor has a feedback mechanism you can actually map the inaccuracies of the lead screw and compensate for them
01:05 PM roycroft: which means that you can actually cut more accurately using cnc than manually if you do that
01:06 PM roycroft: but other than that, cnc vs manual is the same
01:06 PM roycroft: if you want to cut bidirectionally then use ball screws
01:07 PM roycroft: or be able to overshoot and reindex whenever you switch direction
01:10 PM gloops: so lets try that
01:10 PM roycroft: the latter requiring backlash compensation
01:10 PM roycroft: as it would when cutting manually
01:10 PM roycroft: if you cut manually from right to left, and want to do a pass from left to right, you need to know how much backlash there is and move that amount to the right before you start your second pass
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: does someone knoe if i can force the tooledit to only do mill
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: gn8
01:16 PM archivist: wee, just been to lathes.co.uk :)
01:17 PM archivist: flat belt snapped on the southbend was the reason
01:17 PM gloops: the CUT starts at z0 (on the spindle at a point at 167 degrees) we go to z10, (10 steps) we pull out, reverse direction to z0 + 3 steps that takes us to z -2, we then make 3 steps back which takes us to z0 at which point the spindle should be at 167 degrees
01:18 PM gloops: been in person archivist?
01:18 PM archivist: yes
01:19 PM archivist: I had met him some years ago when he cam to the clockworks trying to buy machine tools
01:19 PM archivist: was time to be cheeky can I come collect some flat belt today....
01:20 PM gloops: does he have a large collection of lathes lol?
01:20 PM archivist: no
01:22 PM archivist: he used to deal in machine tools
01:24 PM gloops: well ive looked at the website occassionally over the years, the list of lathes has grown quite a bit if im not mistaken
01:25 PM gloops: but dont know who runs it or anything
01:25 PM gregcnc_: What was all that about? cnc threading?
01:26 PM gloops: yes gregcnc, i am willing to concede half the point
01:26 PM archivist: gloops, his name is on the site
01:26 PM gregcnc_: If you haven't made good parts on a clapped out CNC you can learn how
01:26 PM roycroft: nobody is saying that backlash is not an issue
01:27 PM roycroft: only that it's not a different issue for cnc vs manual - it's exactly the same
01:27 PM gregcnc_: I've heard all the tricks from my father
01:27 PM gregcnc_: they keep shit machines on the floor and want ±.0002"
01:27 PM gloops: no your explanation is fair roy, i suppose it boils down to whether pulling and out and overshooting the return qualifies as baclash compensation or not
01:27 PM gregcnc_: threading is the least of your worries
01:28 PM roycroft: yeah
01:28 PM roycroft: my thinking is that "compensation" means measuring it and programming the controller to deal with it
01:28 PM gloops: you would have to code the overshoot in though
01:28 PM roycroft: overshooting and automatically reindexing by moving forward again in my mind is ignoring it, not compensating for it
01:29 PM roycroft: true
01:29 PM roycroft: but still not substantively different than manual operation
01:29 PM gregcnc_: yeah machine problems are corrected by hand coding
01:29 PM roycroft: you still have to turn the crank that extra turn :)
01:30 PM gloops: well whats new at lathes.co archivist
01:30 PM gregcnc_: imagine the ways are so worn that you have to program 3-4 different diameters to get an in tolerance cylinder
01:30 PM gloops: 3-4 gregcnc id be lucky on my lathe lol
01:31 PM gregcnc_: how many hours does it have?
01:31 PM gregcnc_: 100k?
01:32 PM gloops: its into centuries
01:32 PM roycroft: time to get your buzz box out and build up those worn ways :P
01:32 PM gregcnc_: cnc even
01:32 PM archivist: gloops, he keeps updating the site
01:33 PM chetanpm: hello,
01:33 PM gloops: exactly the same as this but blue - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZemlqUr0Z8
01:34 PM chetanpm: I need help connecting parallel port BOB to servo drive
01:35 PM archivist: step dir "servo" ?
01:35 PM chetanpm: yes
01:35 PM chetanpm: its a fuji alpha 5 smart
01:36 PM chetanpm: the terminologies are a little confusing. So I need help.
01:36 PM archivist: you choose pins ask about what you dont know
01:38 PM chetanpm: On the breakout I got +5v clk cw EN
01:38 PM chetanpm: EN goes to pin 1(Servo ON)
01:40 PM chetanpm: Are the remaining 3 on breakout board clk=step, cw=dir?
01:41 PM chetanpm: or is +5v (VCC) the step?
01:41 PM archivist: should be
01:41 PM archivist: +5 is not the step
01:42 PM chetanpm: Where does +5v normally go in stepper drives?
01:42 PM archivist: the common for the LED current probably
01:43 PM archivist: most of the BOBs are setup to drive optos in the drive
01:43 PM archivist: you need to get the polarity right
01:43 PM gloops: which breakout board? any pics online
01:44 PM chetanpm: https://www.tanotis.com/products/tanotis-5-axis-cnc-breakout-board-with-optical-coupler-for-stepper-motor-driver-mach3-1?variant=42167889488
01:46 PM archivist: looks like a copy of http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/cnc/bob/$_57.JPG
01:47 PM chetanpm: yep
01:47 PM gloops: yeah looks like mine, it seems like ages ago i wired that up
01:48 PM chetanpm: What is +5v wired into?
01:48 PM gloops: you shouldnt need that i dont think with the usb
01:49 PM gloops: +5v from where?
01:50 PM archivist: you need some common to make a circuit
01:50 PM archivist: usually the opt led in the drive is between the pin and plus5
01:52 PM gloops: well just had a quick look, on my old board i needed a 5v supply, the new one like this - the 5v is supplied from the usb
01:52 PM archivist: looking at the fuji manual, not sure it is compatible
01:53 PM chetanpm: huh
01:53 PM archivist: it is expecting, differential or 24v or 12v page 2-12
01:54 PM chetanpm: yes,
01:55 PM chetanpm: with differential input it has 4 pins CA CA* CB CB* for Pul+ Pul- Dir+ Dir-
01:55 PM gregcnc_: archivist, wot? a manual
01:56 PM archivist: the differential will probably work, connecting to +5 and driving it single ended
01:57 PM gloops: obviously not talking about chinese hardware then
01:57 PM archivist: google fuji alpha 5 smart first hit is the manual download
01:57 PM gregcnc_: it's a nice drive and is intended for use in industrial apps
01:58 PM archivist: toy bob is not really the right thing for that
01:58 PM gregcnc_: archivist 1st thing I did was find the manual otherwise it'swasted time
01:59 PM chetanpm: I was testing it out first
01:59 PM chetanpm: may be I need more dedicated hardware
02:00 PM archivist: may work single ended, or use an inverter to create differential
02:00 PM gloops: have you wired a bob up before chetanpm?
02:00 PM chetanpm: no
02:01 PM gloops: ahh
02:01 PM FinboySlick: http://www.lathes.co.uk/advertphoto/170904-schaublin/ <-- Such a cute little thing.
02:01 PM archivist: looks like the drive has enough protection to allow a noob to use it
02:02 PM chetanpm: :)
02:02 PM gregcnc_: finboyslick https://www.ebay.com/itm/272963687894
02:02 PM chetanpm: Is there a mesa card suggestion suitable for my scenario??
02:02 PM archivist: FinboySlick, hehe just been to see lathes.co.uk
02:03 PM gloops: it is not uncommon to have infuriating difficulties at first - doesnt necessarily mean the hardware is incompatible just yet
02:03 PM gregcnc_: chetanpm what sort of machine are you building
02:04 PM gloops: the schaublin lathe is nice
02:04 PM chetanpm: Its a desktop scale mill (gantry style)
02:04 PM archivist: now in my garage http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008b/P1010232.JPG
02:04 PM archivist: a 120 VM
02:05 PM gloops: well ive got the same board but ive never used servos so cant help with that, only use steppers
02:05 PM archivist: quite solid machines
02:05 PM archivist: it is stepper to the outside world
02:06 PM chetanpm: :)
02:06 PM gloops: very nice archivist
02:06 PM gloops: so what is problem ?
02:07 PM chetanpm: Thanks anyways guys, I shall try connecting as archivist said and see if it works :)
02:07 PM archivist: chetanpm, common the A and connect the B to the bob pins, if that does not work reverse A/B
02:07 PM FinboySlick: archivist: Yeah, that's sort of what had me browsing his stuff.
02:08 PM archivist: people are feeding him more info all the time, and as he collects brochures and manuals he has more to add
02:08 PM gregcnc_: you have the matching fuji motors? 17,18, or 20 bit encoders way overkill, but nice
02:09 PM gloops: its a very useful resource archivist
02:09 PM gloops: not just for machine porn, there are details like thread sizes and so on
02:10 PM chetanpm: gregcnc_: GYB 401 20 bit :)
02:10 PM archivist: funny cartoon on his wall, new famous last words No 22 Look after the website
02:10 PM gregcnc_: what did those cost?
02:11 PM chetanpm: gregcnc_: 32000 INR
02:13 PM archivist: chetanpm, the chips on the BOB are limited in drive current, cannot remember the exact value
02:14 PM gloops: my own lathe is not documented however
02:15 PM archivist: tell him, send him pictures
02:15 PM FinboySlick: archivist: Is it a variable belt speed control (on the 120)?
02:15 PM archivist: that will make you polish it :)
02:15 PM gloops: yes i might, when i clean it one day lol
02:15 PM archivist: FinboySlick, yes
02:16 PM FinboySlick: Wow.
02:16 PM FinboySlick: Can I inherit it? ;)
02:16 PM archivist: hehe
02:17 PM archivist: I aint dead yet
02:17 PM archivist: the flat belt on it is sick as well
02:18 PM gloops: i got some flat belts and connectors, but was ages ago, dont know if i got the link still
02:19 PM chetanpm: archivist: /Users/chetanpm/Desktop/Screen Shot 2017-12-02 at 1.48.27 AM.png
02:19 PM gloops: mine came off a ship had overhead flat belt drive, i got all the shafts and wheels, some pretty big, but didnt use them all
02:20 PM FinboySlick: archivist: If you had said yes, I might have sent you a box of cookies... to speed up the inheritance!
02:20 PM gloops: rigged up a myford motor - the original was huge, with stepped pulleys, so i can reduce the speed even more than the flat belt allows
02:20 PM FinboySlick: You're safe though, I can't afford to go get it (or have it shipped.
02:20 PM * archivist hides
02:21 PM chetanpm: archivist: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ydxpmu5ObVP-3NGY8S_xvAFlfXK05P80
02:21 PM nallar is now known as Ross
02:21 PM archivist: I cannot see google drive
02:22 PM chetanpm: oh
02:23 PM archivist: I just get a blank white screen
02:23 PM chetanpm: archivist: fuji alpha smart manual 2-94
02:23 PM archivist: and a few meg of broken js
02:24 PM gregcnc_: still using FireFox 3.0?
02:24 PM Jymmm: gregcnc_: Netscape 4.79
02:25 PM FinboySlick: Netscape Gold, I hope.
02:25 PM archivist: netscrape
02:25 PM gregcnc_: I powered up a W98 box that had Netscape on it this summer
02:26 PM archivist: using an old firefox so I know websites work in real html
02:26 PM nallar is now known as Ross
02:28 PM archivist: chetanpm, no idea why they call both input pairs pulse
02:28 PM Jymmm: FinboySlick: gregcnc_ http://ftp.sunet.se/mirror/archive/ftp.sunet.se/pub/www/browsers/Netscape/communicator/english/4.79/windows/windows95_or_nt/base_install/
02:30 PM archivist: chetanpm, but you can wee two + pins and 2- for each pair, the + to 5V and - to the bob step and dir
02:30 PM archivist: see
02:32 PM chetanpm: archivist: wee F+ step and R+ DIR together??
02:33 PM archivist: these drive have a lot more smarts though and a simple bob is probably not enough
02:33 PM archivist: yes
02:34 PM chetanpm: I will try it out.
02:34 PM archivist: you need to program the drive though I have no idea what the defaults are
02:34 PM chetanpm: meanwhile is there a mesa hardware suggestion for my drive??
02:36 PM gloops: pcw-mesa
02:37 PM gloops: JT-Shop
02:37 PM gloops: as you can see, hes shopping
02:39 PM chetanpm: on it :)
02:40 PM gloops: JT-Shop uses mesa to open his chicken shed doors
02:40 PM gloops: and cnc as well
02:41 PM chetanpm: where is JT-shop?
02:41 PM gloops: at the shop i think
02:44 PM gloops: here - https://mesaus.com/
02:45 PM archivist: I did hold one lathe in my hands today http://www.lathes.co.uk/manson/index.html
02:46 PM gloops: novel
02:46 PM gloops: you can take that to work and do some turning during your break
02:49 PM gloops: http://opensourcemachinetools.org/wordpress/concrete-lathe/
03:06 PM stjohn: archivist: your schaublin, you like it?
03:50 PM miss0r: Added a dial indicator to the Z of the surface grinder. That is a satisfying amount of work for a friday night :)
03:53 PM gloops: well, im a seven days wonder, its against our religion to work on friday nights
03:55 PM miss0r: lol
03:57 PM miss0r: I just sent an order for some generic chinesium; a two axis DRO for the lathe, a multifix QCTP with 10 tool holders & a metric shitton of new inserts for my lathe tooling
03:57 PM gloops: is the surface grinder a recent addition miss0r?
03:57 PM miss0r: no. well, its been here for a year'n a half. Just haven't gotten around to that upgrade until now
03:59 PM gloops: its strange, out of all the vintage machines here, you never see a surface grinder go for nothing on ebay
03:59 PM miss0r: its because nothing much has happened to surface grinders
03:59 PM miss0r: THAT and the 'olden' stuff is the good stuff
03:59 PM gloops: lathes, drills yes, mills occasionally, surface grinders - no
04:01 PM miss0r: This particular surface grinder was actualy found by DaViruz, who is also in here. I was in love on first sight. When he didn't want to buy it, I made the deal instantly. I had it 'imported' from sweeden to denmark
04:02 PM SpeedEvil: Do you now have a lot of very flat things that don't need to be very flat things?
04:02 PM DaViruz: speaking of me, i saw a strange lathe today
04:02 PM gloops: very good, they are nice machines, well the ones ive come in contact with were
04:02 PM DaViruz: it was mirrored
04:02 PM gregcnc_: do you have good luck with chinaco inserts?
04:02 PM DaViruz: spindle on the right side, pointing left
04:03 PM gregcnc_: screw machine?
04:03 PM SpeedEvil: DaViruz: 'I will turn eternal, shiny and chrome'
04:03 PM miss0r: SpeedEvil: hehehe yeah. but also, on occasion, flat parts that realy need to be flat
04:03 PM miss0r: gregcnc_: I've been luckt so far actualy
04:04 PM gregcnc_: i've seen iscar type cutoff inserts for 10USD per box, they are at least 10 times that usually
04:04 PM gloops: there is a bit of one-upmanship involved surely, someone says hes going to mill his plate, you say im going to put mine on the surface grinder
04:04 PM miss0r: yeah, I'm making a point of avoiding stuff that is 1/10 of normal price. i usualy go for something that costs about half
04:05 PM toastydeath: i love surface grinders to make mill tooling, it helps so much
04:05 PM toastydeath: for actual parts not really, but making inspection and fixture tooling for other machines... hell yeeee
04:05 PM miss0r: toastydeath: I usualy use a tool grinder for that, but sure, you can use a surface grinder as well
04:06 PM toastydeath: i meant more for general fixture parts like parallels, tooling plates, vice jaws, angle blocks, etc
04:06 PM toastydeath: not the tool holders
04:06 PM miss0r: Indeed. You can't beat a surface grinder for thoes tasks
04:07 PM miss0r: like with most tools, you don't know how much you need a surface grinder until you have one :)
04:08 PM toastydeath: definitely
04:08 PM miss0r: I just can't wait until I get my DRO for the lathe. THAT and the qctp - I've been needing that for a long time!
04:08 PM gloops: wow, actually i might be proven wrong - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Surface-Grinder-single-phase/332466292957?
04:09 PM miss0r: gloops: Looks like it could use a little touch-up
04:09 PM toastydeath: man, for that price i'd expect a few weeks of rescraping and reconditioning
04:09 PM miss0r: hehe, with my limited scraping skills, make that a few months
04:09 PM gloops: obviously you have to take the rough with the smooth with these auctions
04:10 PM miss0r: But sure. if the price stays in that general area, you could sell it as scrap for a profit
04:10 PM toastydeath: tbh around here i'd save up for a grinder and get the largest one I could, the price flatlines once you're into a few grand
04:11 PM toastydeath: so whether you get a 6x10 grinder or a 20x60 grinder, same condition same price
04:12 PM miss0r: I used to have a Jacobsen SJ-16, fully automated'n everything. The thing was; I didn't have the room for it. So I got a small manual one
04:12 PM toastydeath: yeah space tends to be the limiting factor
04:12 PM miss0r: It took up 3,5 meters of space across (including table movement)
04:12 PM miss0r: I just couldn't fit that in here
04:13 PM miss0r: This small one; I have to keep one side of the workbench in here clear when using it, as it overlaps the table a bit :]
04:13 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elliott-921-Surface-Grinder-3-phase-complete-with-coolant-tank-and-Pump/132419134145? thats more serviceable by the look of it
04:14 PM miss0r: elliott; notorious for leaky hydraulics. But that can be fixed
04:14 PM Deejay: gn8
04:14 PM miss0r: Yeah, i'll check out as well. goodnight
04:14 PM gloops: and me
05:28 PM nallar is now known as Ross
05:32 PM TurBoss: Hello
05:32 PM TurBoss: I have a python component
05:33 PM TurBoss: that is loaded with -W argument
05:33 PM TurBoss: h = hal.component("mpg-dro")
05:33 PM TurBoss: h.ready()
05:34 PM TurBoss: but i get this when running LCNC:
05:34 PM TurBoss: pyComp READY
05:34 PM TurBoss: Waiting for component 'turbodro' to become ready.........................................................................^C
05:36 PM andypugh: TurBoss: If the hal component name and the file name don’t match exactly II imagine that the file is “mpg_dro”? then you need to use -Wn mpg-dro to tell the loadusr line which component to wait for.
05:38 PM TurBoss: Checking
05:46 PM TurBoss: thats it
05:46 PM TurBoss: Thank you andypugh
06:30 PM Contract_Pilot: Afternoon.
06:31 PM Contract_Pilot: Someone needs to share pathpilot 2.0
06:32 PM roycroft: if you're suggesting piracy please do not suggest it here
07:04 PM hazzy: roycroft: Is it possible to pirate GPL software?
07:10 PM malcom2073: Contract_Pilot: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot/29983-notes-on-path-pilot-1-8-2-source-code
07:10 PM malcom2073: Oh 2.0
07:10 PM malcom2073: heh
07:10 PM malcom2073: Missed that
07:26 PM varesa is now known as varesa|
11:56 PM Contract_Pilot: My motors made it to hong kong.
11:56 PM Contract_Pilot: maybe next week they may make it state side.