#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 30 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: hi
02:03 AM Deejay: moin
03:14 AM Loetmichel: Hmmmmpf... Somehow Insulation milling isnt THAT good for series work... Toolk me 1.5 days now to mill that 22 pcbs. And i still have to populate the boards. (Our pick&place guy has set us up. should have delivered 130 of these on last monday)... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16897&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:28 AM MarcelineVQ: nice and fine at least. you can move pretty fast doing cuts that shallow, is the machine travel speed the limitation?
04:51 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: not at all. the machine is doing 1600mm/s insulation milling.
04:52 AM Loetmichel: the fact thats it meters and meters of insulation channel per PCB and that it was 22 pcbs is the problem...
04:52 AM Loetmichel: ... changing and zeroing 6 differend drills before the insulation milling doesent make it faster though
04:52 AM Loetmichel: :)
04:58 AM malcom2073: You need a tool changer :P
04:59 AM XXCoder: or repeatable method to set tools
05:04 AM archivist: a tool changer is the repeatable way
05:05 AM archivist: some tools are too small to be contact measured
05:07 AM XXCoder: well could say add plastic disks to tools so can set it at same location
05:08 AM XXCoder: less work than setting length repeatively
05:08 AM jthornton: morning
05:09 AM XXCoder: yo
05:17 AM Hawku-fr is now known as Hawku
05:46 AM Tom_L: hello
05:47 AM jthornton: morning
05:48 AM XXCoder: heys
05:51 AM Tom_L: jt, get your auto feeder working?
05:59 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/feeder/
06:01 AM XXCoder: wow pic loads on same day as I click it
06:01 AM XXCoder: ;)
06:01 AM XXCoder: nice
06:01 AM XXCoder: pretty simple. I assume whole things under roof>
06:07 AM XXCoder: jthornton: check this out http://picpaste.com/pics/23915574_10214059468023580_266485235170526649_n-pIuHFxVi.1512042024.jpg
06:08 AM XXCoder: funny thing is person who posted about it thinks that is some tabby cat lost outside. said fed 3 cans of tuna and looked muddy so got it in to bathe cat
06:13 AM MarcelineVQ: don't believe everything you read :>
06:15 AM XXCoder: it dont seem to be lie or anything like that
06:15 AM XXCoder: people was commenting aww lost tubby cat and so onb
06:17 AM SpeedEvil: :)
06:18 AM SpeedEvil: Imagine if a bear fed you and gave you a pedicure by force.
06:19 AM XXCoder: puma is quite strong
06:21 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRt5a_5VQr0
06:21 AM SpeedEvil: this is a series I want to see.
06:21 AM SpeedEvil: 'today, we try to give a wild animal a bath, without protective equipment'
07:28 AM gregcnc_: I got my Mechanical and Metal Trades Handbook https://www.ebay.com/itm/9783808519141/332312642633
07:28 AM gregcnc_: it's full of useful metrical stuffs
07:32 AM archivist: its books like that, that started my book habit!
07:33 AM gregcnc_: machinery's handbook could learn something
07:34 AM sync: I have that one
07:34 AM sync: never use it
07:35 AM gregcnc_: which?
07:41 AM archivist: 8th 14th and 15th versions of machinery's :)
07:44 AM gregcnc_: I have a 25th large print. I do use it, but some information just needs to be transferred to something more handy.
07:44 AM archivist: seems to be a name change of publisher the industrial press and machinery publishing co
07:44 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=machinery%27s
07:45 AM archivist: or US v English editions
07:45 AM JT-Shop: dumb a guy just paid me $640 but didn't place an order in the store...
07:46 AM archivist: did he sneak the info in the message section on paypal
07:46 AM SpeedEvil: JT-Shop: he just likes you?
07:47 AM JT-Shop: no, he is from india and asked for a quote for some cards, I just refunded it lol
08:19 AM skunkworks: easy money! that is like a reverse Nigerian scam ;)
08:30 AM JT-Shop: lol
10:46 AM archivist: effin flat belt joints grrrrr
11:03 AM monkeyisl: https://imgur.com/a/o0q9l anyone knows how do i make those red finish on the wires?
11:04 AM Jymmm: Those are wire ferruls and are crimped on
11:05 AM Jymmm: They essencially prevent frey wires from shorting out on stuff and allow a stronger screw terminal connection.
11:06 AM monkeyisl: http://www.molex.com/molex/products/family?key=wire_pins something like this?
11:06 AM Jymmm: monkeyisl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os66cID30Ek
11:07 AM roycroft: monkeyisl: https://www.ebay.com/itm/351901748397
11:07 AM roycroft: or google "bootlace ferrules"
11:09 AM monkeyisl: cooo thanks
11:13 AM jdh: I like weidmuller ferrules and crimpers
11:16 AM monkeyisl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidewfpKxu8 buying this
11:19 AM roycroft: mine is side loading, and much less expensive
11:19 AM roycroft: that knipex tool looks really nice
11:19 AM DaViruz: the chinese 4 jaws are pretty cheap, and works great
11:20 AM DaViruz: pretty much identical to a knipex model
11:20 AM roycroft: front loading would be really useful at times
11:20 AM roycroft: otoh, side loading is really useful at times
11:20 AM roycroft: having both types would be good
11:21 AM DaViruz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Profi-0-25-10mm-Crimp-Zange-Selbsteinstellend-Crimpzange-Ratsche-Aderendhulsen/192122977832?hash=item2cbb6bfe28:g:GrkAAOSw5cNYmdi9
11:21 AM DaViruz: can recommend.
11:21 AM DaViruz: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6W-b15-iWCs/maxresdefault.jpg
11:22 AM DaViruz: i have one of those as well, and they produce pretty much identical results
11:23 AM roycroft: when i started buying oetiker stepless clamps i got a crimp tool that can crimp from the end and from the side, and i find i use both methods frequently
11:23 AM Connor: I love using ferrule's.. so much better than tinning the wire..
11:23 AM roycroft: you should never EVER tin wires that are going to be mechanically fastened
11:24 AM roycroft: see almost all nasa and airline documentation for reference :)
11:24 AM DaViruz: and my personal experience
11:24 AM DaViruz: (and a lot of others as well)
11:25 AM Jymmm: roycroft: It kills me when they crimp AND tin wire
11:25 AM Jymmm: I just kinda cringe when I see that
11:26 AM DaViruz: my granddad taught me to tin wire ends, and i did for quite a while
11:26 AM roycroft: you should also avoid solder connections when the device si subject to vibration/regular movement
11:26 AM DaViruz: somewhere along the line i discovered that poor connections that were giving me a hard time was almost always tinned
11:27 AM roycroft: a good mechanical crimp is every bit as strong (if not stronger) than a soldered connection
11:27 AM roycroft: and less prone to failure
11:29 AM roycroft: there's a guy who did a series of very detailed videos of a cnc conversion of his grizzly g0602 10x22 lathe
11:29 AM roycroft: for the most part it was a decent series of videos
11:29 AM roycroft: but he tinned every single wire he used before connecting it in his control panel
11:29 AM roycroft: when he was working on the panel i was going *cringe* *cringe* *cringe* non-stop
11:30 AM roycroft: in fairness, he was honest about it and said at some point something along the lines of "i'm not sure if this is waht i'm supposed to do or not, but it's easier for me to tin the wires before connecting them"
11:32 AM roycroft: he should have taken the time to find out though - when publishing instructional videos, i think it's incumbent upon the instructor to do things correctly, even in cases where it's being done for free
11:33 AM roycroft: </rant> :)
11:33 AM DaViruz: i saw a video with some czech guy building a electric heat treat furnace, and it was a really nice job. but he also tinned every connection
11:34 AM jdh: if there is no vibration, it would be fine.
11:34 AM DaViruz: or thermal cycling
11:34 AM DaViruz: vibration/movement is probably the big killer though
11:35 AM roycroft: solder will oxidize over time
11:35 AM DaViruz: speaking of furnaces, it bugs me to no end that insulating fire brick pretty much doesn't exist here
11:35 AM DaViruz: while in the us it seems you can pick some up at any convenience store
11:35 AM roycroft: if you're connecting two wires together with solder that's not a big deal, as the wires will be in physical contact with each other, and the oxidation will occur on the outer (air-facing) surfaces
11:36 AM roycroft: but if you tin a wire and then clamp it in a terminal, it will oxidize on the surface over time, creating an insulating layer between the wire and the terminal
11:37 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:37 AM roycroft: granted, modern electrical solder products are much less prone to oxidation than other forms of solder, and the problem is minimized
11:37 AM roycroft: but it's still a real thing
11:37 AM roycroft: and does cause occasional failures
11:37 AM roycroft: and is completely unnecessary
11:38 AM roycroft: solder or mechanically connect, but not both
11:38 AM DaViruz: well it can make it a lot easier to insert a wire end, so there is SOME merit to it
11:38 AM DaViruz: though still a bad idea
11:39 AM roycroft: using bootlace crimp connectors makes wires just as easy to insert, and are almost free
11:39 AM DaViruz: yep
11:40 AM roycroft: in space-confined applications they can be problematic
11:40 AM DaViruz: nah, just get the ones without the shroud
11:40 AM roycroft: yes, uninsulated ones can be bent to work around most obsturctions
11:41 AM archivist: hard to put more than on in a connection
11:41 AM archivist: one
11:41 AM * roycroft is having a particularly bad typing day :(
11:41 AM roycroft: that's a design issue, not a construction issue, archivist :)
11:41 AM archivist: not really
11:42 AM DaViruz: you can put more than one wire in a ferrule. though that comes with a set of new problems
11:43 AM DaViruz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v3iIYP2juQ
11:43 AM roycroft: if the terminal is the type with the screw that pushes down on a square pad, for spade connectors, it's often quite possible to insert a shoelace connector on each side
11:43 AM DaViruz: i wonder if i can convince my boss that we need one
11:44 AM roycroft: i tend to use spade connectors with such terminals, though
11:48 AM JT-Shop: Hello, my name is HariPriya. I'm here to help you...
11:51 AM archivist: is that a sentient chicken?
11:52 AM JT-Shop: no, trying to secure my amazon account someone placed an order against it
12:03 PM Jymmm: Lovely... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2PSaGKPCag
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: hi ferdna
12:24 PM gloops: ok, say i have 2 motors on X axis, X travel is 0-1000 current position 500, i have homing switches on both screws at say +5, how do i get both motors to home together, when they have individual homing?
12:25 PM JT-Shop: nice, I have a gift card and an amazon cc that I didn't create
12:26 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Did you change your password yet?
12:26 PM roycroft: so you need to freeze your credit
12:28 PM JT-Shop: twice
12:28 PM JT-Shop: and wrote a password generator in python!
12:28 PM JT-Shop: creates something like this g#0A2k%E2f5I2+rV
12:29 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Have you changed your email password lately?
12:29 PM JT-Shop: no, that is next
12:30 PM JT-Shop: I need to remember how to run python on windows
12:32 PM Loetmichel: gloops: linuxcnc has a mode for that. you have to make one side the "slave" of the other, x and x', not individual axis. i have no idea how to do that in detail though, because i use a sync belt on my Mills with 2 y motors and ballscrews
12:34 PM gloops: in v2.8 ( i have not done it in other versions) the motors (joints) are placed under an AXIS in the hal and ini, with individual references like X and Xi
12:35 PM gloops: ill read some more about the homing, they home in sequence, thought cross my mind if they are going for a switch that is a long way away - one cant go without the other
12:35 PM gloops: maybe they find the switch then do seperate final homing
12:36 PM gloops: find the switches together
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: ist der befehlston zu vulgär für die studenten ? https://youtu.be/keUdeU5PG7w
12:41 PM Loetmichel: sounds more like a drill sergenant than a teacher, but who knows, maybe your students need that?
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: better that way then sounding pink
12:43 PM * Loetmichel wouldnt watch it to the end, i am no student though.
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: NP
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: i will make a EN one for gloops tomorrow
12:44 PM gloops: EN Ichs?
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: denglish
12:44 PM gloops: ahh yes
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: with a G
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: German <> english Vs pälzich
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: Folks as i updated today to freeCad 0.17
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: all systems using opencascade went realy boosting
12:46 PM gloops: how you finding it it - path section has been upgraded a lot
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: even recordmydesktop is now able to fulle encode on the fly
12:46 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: even my boss knows better than to have that tone in his voice when approaching me. (after i told him what he can do with his job if he EVER tries that agan)... :-)
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: as long as NO CRC it is unusable
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: new unemployment numberd out today
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: 4.4 best since WW2
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: 97k searching and 112k wants
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: with a 50% not wnat it is a full
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: want
12:49 PM Loetmichel: 4.4%?
12:49 PM Loetmichel: really?
12:49 PM Loetmichel: thats LOW!
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: i got only the RLP
12:50 PM Loetmichel: i think i remember close to 10%
12:50 PM Loetmichel: not THAT long agao
12:50 PM Loetmichel: ago
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: the number for K-town is 14572 open Jobsas oftoday
12:51 PM gloops: i see old merkel is in trouble
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: i think tey calculate as they hope to be
12:51 PM Loetmichel: gloops: why?
12:51 PM gloops: no majority
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: we got no GOV and the econemy boosts
12:52 PM Loetmichel: she is better off forcing the SPD into another "grand coalition" anyways
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: if so in the UK the country woudt go grasy
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: c
12:52 PM Loetmichel: than with "jamaika"
12:52 PM gloops: Ichs i hope youre right, this economic news is a flash in the pan though
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: right
12:52 PM gloops: more jobs yes, lower wages though
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: but Germans think different as you may know
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: as your expirience here
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: today i gave boost to the led
12:54 PM gloops: the UK is set to rebuild an economic powerhouse
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: as of 7219 i now run the 2V on 14V with 800hz
12:54 PM gloops: manufacturing, engineering
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: and it is still nt at full
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: but the max out of the USB is 14V
12:55 PM JT-Shop: the new browser copy feature is crap
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: JT-Shop: freecad
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: i found more weard that the good users here are boosting the path without lcnc post
12:56 PM gloops: freecaed now appears to make good g-code, i generated some code, not tried any yet though
12:57 PM gloops: code looks ok
12:57 PM Loetmichel: gloops: what i read (and saw) of GB its more like "the moment you are out of the EU the unemployment rates will skyrocket and there will be deficit in foreign trade
12:57 PM Loetmichel: "
12:57 PM gloops: heh heh Loet i think you underestimate the British willpower
12:57 PM roycroft: all you need to do that is a competent government to shape policy, gloops
12:58 PM gloops: yes indeed roy, we live in hope
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: its not in our hands
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: only 45 mails today 1 on lcnc
12:58 PM roycroft: believe it or not, we live in hope of the same thing here
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: my Yt goes down
12:58 PM Loetmichel: i've seee way to many videos of "this industry is dead in GB, That industry is dying, the thirt industry is on the brink of extintion"...
12:59 PM gloops: british ingenuity and fighting spirit will do the rest
12:59 PM Loetmichel: seen
12:59 PM roycroft: our situation is more dire than yours though
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: oh we got X-mas tree opening i hear trumpets and drumms
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: OFF for Glühweiin
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: beer
12:59 PM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
12:59 PM gloops: Loet thats the EUs fault
01:00 PM * roycroft made some glühwein a couple days ago
01:01 PM gloops: germany using the euro - is working with currency 20% under the value of the deutschemark
01:01 PM gloops: no wonder they can export
01:01 PM Loetmichel: ahem.
01:02 PM Loetmichel: when the deutsche mark ceased to exist it was changed 1.995DM to 1.000 eur.
01:02 PM Loetmichel: no idea where you got the "20% under" value from
01:02 PM roycroft: http://www.roycroft.us/hazard-fraught.jpeg
01:03 PM roycroft: the poorly-constructed eurozone is europe's biggest problem, not the schengen area
01:04 PM gloops: while Greece uses currency 60% overvalued - impossible to manufacture
01:04 PM sync: it's not so poor for those who are in it roycroft
01:04 PM roycroft: and you can't blame muslims for the institutional problems with the euro
01:05 PM Loetmichel: to be honest: there IS no "problem"
01:05 PM gloops: the mistake the EU made was allowing in nations that didnt have economic parity
01:05 PM gloops: it was ok while it was UK Germany France and Italy
01:05 PM roycroft: the problem is that you have a common currency but no common economic policy
01:06 PM roycroft: any country's poor decisions can affect the entire eurozone economically
01:06 PM roycroft: any member country's
01:06 PM Loetmichel: the germans have supported greece, italy, spain (to name a few) with billions... and are STILL the economic powerhouse of europe... seems we do SOMETHING right ;)
01:06 PM roycroft: yet you should not have had to do so
01:06 PM roycroft: and the greeks knew that you would
01:06 PM sync: why not?
01:07 PM sync: it is a union
01:07 PM roycroft: which is why they made politically expedient choices for them that harmed the rest of the eurozone
01:07 PM gloops: Loet that is the entire idea of the eurozone, to keep germany strong the likes of greece weak
01:07 PM sync: no
01:07 PM gloops: however, we have seen where german greed leads in the past
01:08 PM sync: the idea of the eu was to make germany a farmer and worker state
01:08 PM Loetmichel: the "idea" of the eurozone is to create one big economy that can compete with the US and chinese markets.
01:08 PM sync: which did not work out so well
01:08 PM roycroft: DON'T TALK ABOUT THE WAR!
01:08 PM Loetmichel: which worked great for US so far, and will take a while to go up to chinese numbers
01:08 PM Loetmichel: NOT to subdue other countries.
01:08 PM roycroft: i have no problem with the idea of the eurozone
01:08 PM roycroft: but it wasn't structured properly
01:09 PM gloops: the other nations are subdued though, they are not competing with china or usa, they are competing with germany
01:09 PM DaViruz: well you started it. you invaded poland!
01:09 PM roycroft: and i don't know enough about the politics of the time to be able to make a valid criticism of the process of creating it
01:10 PM DaViruz: i like a lot of things with the EU. and i dislike a lot of things as well
01:10 PM gloops: the UK has contributed in good faith, in the spirit of the post war era we have made an effort to reconcile our differences
01:11 PM gloops: that cannot go on forever though
01:11 PM roycroft: i agree that the uk has contributed in good faith
01:11 PM roycroft: brexis is not the answer to britain's problems though
01:11 PM Loetmichel: MUHAHAHA... really? thats your opinion?... ok, lets change the subject before i say something i regret later.
01:11 PM roycroft: brexit
01:12 PM roycroft: you have some internal housecleaning to do
01:12 PM Loetmichel: @ gloops
01:12 PM roycroft: it's not fair to blame your problems on the eu
01:12 PM gloops: we cannot agree to everything germany wants, simply to keep the peace
01:13 PM roycroft: s/your/all your/
01:13 PM Loetmichel: gloops: IF your country would exit like it promised to years ago that would be nice.
01:13 PM roycroft: but it doesn't matter at this point
01:13 PM roycroft: brexit is in process, and it's not going to be stopped
01:13 PM sync: well, I do hope that the uk gets fucked over properly
01:14 PM Loetmichel: sync: ahem, thats a bit hard to say it that way
01:14 PM roycroft: i fear it's too late to get rid of may and get a government who will be willing and able to negotiate the brexit fairly and reasonably
01:14 PM Loetmichel: they will notice what they have voted for soon enough.
01:14 PM roycroft: i don't hope the uk gets screwed over by brexit
01:14 PM roycroft: but the tories are doing everthing in their power to ensure that it will
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: follow the money
01:15 PM roycroft: i swear, may is about as competent as donald trump
01:15 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: thats also a bit hard on may.
01:15 PM roycroft: she's getting steamrolled by brussels
01:15 PM Loetmichel: NOBODY is as incompetent as him
01:16 PM gloops: we'll be going dont worry about that
01:16 PM roycroft: and sha has no idea why
01:16 PM sync: huh
01:16 PM roycroft: you can't stop brexit at this point
01:16 PM sync: it is pretty obvious why the eu is rubbing it in
01:16 PM roycroft: sure
01:16 PM gloops: sync the EU is broke
01:17 PM sync: is it?
01:17 PM gloops: yes
01:17 PM Loetmichel: sync: only in his beliefs
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: LinuxCNC with Rapid Rotary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ffiCekhpE
01:17 PM roycroft: because may and her ilk are acting like it's 1870 and the empire is still extant
01:17 PM gloops: but the cash cow is leaving
01:17 PM Loetmichel: HAHA
01:18 PM sync: > uk
01:18 PM sync: > cashcow
01:18 PM sync: wtf
01:18 PM Loetmichel: cash cow,
01:18 PM Loetmichel: HAHAHA
01:18 PM sync: lad
01:18 PM sync: what is wrong with you
01:18 PM miss0r: o_O
01:18 PM roycroft: she thinks the uk inherently have the upper hand in brexit negotiations
01:18 PM sync: yes roycroft
01:18 PM SpeedEvil: I'm not sure she does. It's just the political consequences for her of backing out are terrible.
01:18 PM miss0r: archivist: It ended up claiming 1.5 hours of my time to manually defrost the aircon unit
01:18 PM SpeedEvil: The political consequences for her are less terrible if we all fall off a cliff
01:19 PM sync: gloops: please provide the numbers to prove that your country is actually a cashcow
01:19 PM roycroft: backing out is not the alternative to bullying
01:19 PM sync: and that the eu is broke as the second strongest economy in the world
01:19 PM gloops: sync we didnt want to do this you know
01:19 PM sync: right
01:19 PM Loetmichel: thats was to be expected
01:19 PM roycroft: honest negotiation and acceptance of reality are what is needed
01:20 PM gloops: sync the EU is declining rapidly, others are growing
01:20 PM Loetmichel: what was that slightly ruffled yelow hair looking guy called again that made you all chose your own (moentary) demise?
01:20 PM gloops: the opportunities are not in europe these days
01:20 PM roycroft: look at how this has come about
01:21 PM roycroft: on day one may demanded a trade deal
01:21 PM Loetmichel: because i want to notice him that some "gloops" on the IRC has stolen all his "arguments"
01:21 PM sync: so you are gonna whip out 55% of your export volume after you left with other countries?
01:21 PM roycroft: on day one the eu said "we have to sort out the borders, migration, and how much you owe us before we can talk abou ttrade"
01:21 PM roycroft: on day two may demaned a trade deal
01:21 PM sync: and 61% of your import volume?
01:21 PM sync: riiiiight
01:21 PM roycroft: on day two the eu said "see above"
01:21 PM roycroft: it's been going on that way for the better part of a year
01:21 PM gloops: Loet youre talking about boris johnson
01:22 PM roycroft: now they're running out of time to work out a trade deal
01:22 PM roycroft: or any deal
01:22 PM SpeedEvil: Also, there was no real detailed planning beyond 'it'll be fine' before brexit vote
01:22 PM roycroft: may hasn't even considered ireland
01:22 PM roycroft: which is a whole lot of mess
01:22 PM Loetmichel: gloops: yes, thats him
01:22 PM roycroft: thank goodness ireland is not in the schengen area
01:22 PM roycroft: or things would be 10x worse
01:22 PM roycroft: the irish will not put up with a hard border
01:23 PM roycroft: period
01:23 PM sync: I would love it if north ireland and scotland get out of the uk to stay in the eu
01:23 PM roycroft: yeah, speaking of which
01:23 PM roycroft: the brits are tossing around the idea now of allowing northern ireland to stay in the european market
01:23 PM roycroft: while the rest of the uk brexits
01:23 PM Loetmichel: sync: isnt there a movement in scotland for a second vote on that agenda?
01:23 PM gloops: unfortunately scotland has a large budget deficit
01:23 PM roycroft: so that there won't have to be a customs border in ireland
01:23 PM gloops: the oil fields are dismantled
01:24 PM roycroft: how do you think the scots will react if that happens?
01:24 PM gloops: i.e scotland cannot leave the UK
01:24 PM roycroft: the second referendum vote has been effectively postponed indefinitely
01:24 PM roycroft: bah
01:24 PM SpeedEvil: Added to the fun, the labour party are doing nothing.
01:24 PM roycroft: scotland is in financial trouble because westminster are screwing scotland over, as they've done since the 14th century
01:25 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: how much deficit?
01:25 PM roycroft: the scots would be fine if they left the uk
01:25 PM sync: gloops: if they did the eu would just subsidize them to keep them in
01:25 PM roycroft: they would be hurting for a while
01:25 PM sync: it would be a nice middle finger to the uk
01:25 PM Loetmichel: looking on how much we paid for greece... another few billions to help out the scots... why not?
01:25 PM roycroft: but they send more money to westminster now than they get back
01:25 PM roycroft: loetmichel: the scots would pay their way
01:25 PM roycroft: they might need some help at first
01:25 PM roycroft: but they are not the greeks
01:26 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: greece got loans mostly as well
01:26 PM roycroft: yes
01:26 PM roycroft: the difference being, scotland would pay them back :)
01:26 PM gloops: sync you have 8 billion a year for scotland - massive unemployment no prospects
01:26 PM Loetmichel: i meant: its not that big of a deal: if they ask i would be surprised if your government would deny them some help
01:27 PM gloops: greece got 'bailed' (bought) by the bundesbank
01:27 PM Loetmichel: s/your/our
01:27 PM Loetmichel: sorry
01:28 PM SpeedEvil: I have so much faith in the UK prospects that I'm putting all my money in watercooled servos.
01:28 PM roycroft: if this deal to keep ni in the european market goes though (and that's a really big *if* - the eu would have to approve as well as westminster), i could see indyref 2 happening very quickly in scotland
01:28 PM sync: probably a better investment
01:28 PM roycroft: and passing by a wide margin this time
01:28 PM * Jymmm lol @ SpeedEvil
01:28 PM gloops: scotland is in trouble because they have huge welfare committments and no revenues
01:28 PM sync: all the miners
01:28 PM roycroft: that's because westminster takes all their money and doesn't give much back
01:29 PM sync: but that's not too bad tho
01:29 PM gloops: how can we take scotlands money?
01:29 PM roycroft: taxes
01:29 PM gloops: they cant pay their bills as it is
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: Scotland has scotch, what do they Greeks have to show after 2500 years, Ouzo?
01:29 PM roycroft: scotland does not have full control over taxation
01:29 PM gloops: feta cheese
01:29 PM * miss0r is left wondering where the european based chinese import warehouses will be located after the brexit
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: yeah you have to give them feta
01:30 PM Loetmichel: miss0r: already shifting to netherlands
01:30 PM miss0r: Loetmichel: Good to know for.... reasons
01:30 PM gloops: the warehouses can pack their bags today
01:30 PM Loetmichel: :-)
01:30 PM gloops: we dont want them
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: you can tell a lot about a country by the alcohol it consumes and produces
01:30 PM roycroft: ireland was abused and oppressed by the english even more than the scots were
01:30 PM roycroft: and we know what happened there
01:31 PM sync: miss0r: germany
01:31 PM sync: they already are here
01:31 PM miss0r: Denmark was hardly ever opressed and we drink like pigs :)
01:31 PM gloops: this is unfortunate terminology roycroft
01:31 PM miss0r: sync: I just need to know what prefered country to use for my deliveries from now on
01:31 PM roycroft: it is accurate terminology for the times
01:31 PM gloops: the irish consistently vote to remain in the UK
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: leprechauns, the scourge of the earth
01:31 PM roycroft: northern ireland does
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: I know I've seen the movies
01:32 PM gloops: therefore we cannot speak of oppression
01:32 PM roycroft: but most of the country waged war against their oppressors a century ago
01:32 PM roycroft: and finally won their freedom
01:32 PM Loetmichel: sync: german customs are not really good for european warehouses
01:32 PM gloops: theyll be back when their bellies start rumbling
01:32 PM Loetmichel: unless you count the free trade zones in hamburg and co as "germany"
01:33 PM roycroft: the royalists all fled to ulster
01:33 PM roycroft: which was itself divided
01:33 PM roycroft: the majority of which became part of the uk
01:33 PM roycroft: s/became/remained/
01:34 PM roycroft: english-irish relations have generally improved since then
01:34 PM gloops: https://i0.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/eu-v-row.jpg?resize=472%2C480
01:34 PM gloops: here we see the EU is falling badly behind
01:34 PM Loetmichel: I actually like the scots. even the lower class workers i met in dundee a few decades back
01:34 PM roycroft: but at the time of independence, abuse and oppression are accurate terms to use for how the irish were treated
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: if Texas were to leave the USA, would we call it a Texit?
01:35 PM Loetmichel: MAN that was a nice pub brawl... we in german navvy uniforms and them in worker clothes ;)
01:35 PM roycroft: we'd just say "thank goodness" :)
01:35 PM miss0r: Does any of you know of a reliable size table to help me get the appropriate multifix toolpost? I have some strange sizes from the local pusher size A and B and AA AB ect...
01:35 PM sync: Loetmichel: nah, the chinese tax evasion scheme works pretty well currently
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: have example pics of what you want?
01:36 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Looking at this particular one: https://www.globaltools.dk/maskiner/tilbehoer-til-maskiner/hurtigskifteholdere/system-multifix-str-a
01:36 PM miss0r: I just have no idea what size 'a' translates to
01:37 PM * roycroft notes as well that at the time of irish independence, ireland was much more poor and dependent on england than thescots are now, and it turned out to be a successful, thriving country
01:37 PM roycroft: and has not suffered genocide at the hand of the english since
01:37 PM gloops: ireland has a thriving economy?
01:37 PM roycroft: which it did under english rule
01:37 PM sync: gloops: primary sources.
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: http://www.industrydepot.com/images/dsupertp.jpg
01:38 PM sync: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2017/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=43&pr.y=19&sy=2017&ey=2017&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C672%2C914%2C946%2C612%2C137%2C614%2C546%2C311%2C962%2C213%2C674%2C911%2C676%2C193%2C548%2C122%2C556%2C912%2C678%2C313%2C181%2C419%2C867%2C513%2C682%2C316%2C684%2C913%2C273%2C124%2C868%2C339%2C921%2C638%2C948%2C514%2C943%2C218%2C686%2C963%2C688%2C616%2C518%2C223%2C
01:38 PM sync: 728%2C516%2C558%2C918%2C138%2C748%2C196%2C618%2C278%2C624%2C692%2C522%2C694%2C622%2C142%2C156%2C449%2C626%2C564%2C628%2C565%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C359%2C960%2C453%2C423%2C968%2C935%2C922%2C128%2C714%2C611%2C862%2C321%2C135%2C243%2C716%2C248%2C456%2C469%2C722%2C253%2C942%2C642%2C718%2C643%2C724%2C939%2C576%2C644%2C936%2C819%2C961%2C172%2C81
01:39 PM sync: 3%2C132%2C199%2C646%2C733%2C648%2C184%2C915%2C524%2C134%2C361%2C652%2C362%2C174%2C364%2C328%2C732%2C258%2C366%2C656%2C734%2C654%2C144%2C336%2C146%2C263%2C463%2C268%2C528%2C532%2C923%2C944%2C738%2C176%2C578%2C534%2C537%2C536%2C742%2C429%2C866%2C433%2C369%2C178%2C744%2C436%2C186%2C136%2C925%2C343%2C869%2C158%2C746%2C439%2C926%2C916%2C466%2C664%2C112%2C826%2C111%2C542%2C298%2C967%2C927%2C443%2C846%2C917%2C299%
01:39 PM sync: 2C544%2C582%2C941%2C474%2C446%2C754%2C666%2C698%2C668&s=PPPGDP&grp=0&a=
01:39 PM sync: 10/10 link
01:39 PM sync: would paste again
01:39 PM Tom_L: holy crap
01:39 PM miss0r: LOL!
01:39 PM gloops: nice paste sync
01:39 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: That does not realy look like the toolpost in question. Are thoes letters the same all across the different products?
01:39 PM Tom_L: sync use tinyurl and try again
01:40 PM sync: goo.gl/t4PKN7content_copyCopy short URL
01:40 PM sync: wow
01:40 PM sync: my paste fu is bad today
01:40 PM sync: anyway
01:40 PM JT-Shop: now that's a link
01:41 PM sync: that is the primary source to the data
01:41 PM sync: and you can clearly see that paul staines talks out his ass
01:41 PM * roycroft wishes to point out that he does not hate sassenachs, but will not sugar coat their dealings with their conquests/colonies in the past
01:41 PM sync: but what can you expect from someone who has a column in the sun
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: yes and no, not exactly the same from what I've found
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: relatively the same
01:42 PM * miss0r feels none the wiser
01:42 PM Tom_L: i need a flat plate to weld this frame on now
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: your link has no drawings that I can find
01:43 PM Tom_L: may have to clear off my steel table
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: the dovetail sizes should be the same across the common series AXA, BXA, CXA etc
01:44 PM miss0r: Only, this one does not use a dovetail, but alot of grooves
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: ah ok, then I have no idea, might be unique to that brand
01:45 PM * nos has
01:45 PM nos: URL envy
01:46 PM Tom_L: that was almost long enough for kline to kick in
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: looks similar https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/01454842
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: Brand: Value Collection sounds like China
01:47 PM Tom_L: haha that was my thought exactly
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Tool-Holding/Lathe-Tool-Posts-Tool-Holders/Tool-Posts-Tool-Post-Holders/Tool-Post-Holders?navid=12108553#navid=12108553+4287447199
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: MeanWell, TryHard, AlmostGood, ItsCheap, Works4While, etc
02:00 PM gloops: my chinese milling cutters do actually cut
02:00 PM gloops: slotted some 10mm plate with them
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: I bought a few things from Shars since they are so close ...
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: I don't bother with their cutting or measuring tools anymore
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: angles, parallels, squares are close but nothing like Starrett
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: surface plates are cheap and good enough since I pick up
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: not far https://cnc-specialty-store.com/
02:17 PM gregcnc_: interesting
02:21 PM nos: !:O
02:21 PM nos: We don't have GOTO?
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: was searching for servo cable sources https://cnc-specialty-store.com/servo-motor-cables/general-motor-cables
02:21 PM gloops: box section is awkward to weld accurately
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: hard to find in stock that will cut to length
02:23 PM gloops: clamp, tack in some kind of sequence
02:24 PM gloops: leave a gap, it will prise itself out of place if its touching and gets hot
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: tack them in like you would follow a bolt sequence to avoid warping
02:28 PM nos: If anyone replied, I missed it due to disconnect.
02:29 PM gloops: im sure we have goto nos
02:29 PM gloops: its just not called goto
02:32 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC was written by programmers, they consider GOTO to be sacrelige
02:33 PM Jymmm: GOSUB FTW!!!!
02:33 PM andypugh: But typically you get the same results with the things that do exist IF/ELSE DO/WHILE WHILE/WEND
02:33 PM sync: tell that the linux kernel devs andypugh
02:34 PM gloops: nos do you mean goto line ---
02:34 PM gloops: like the gcode line
02:34 PM andypugh: They only use GOTO as a “Get me out of this function to the clean-up code, it’s all gone horribly wrong"
02:35 PM gloops: run from line etc
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: JT gets hacked and I get someones facebook account from pakistan that used one of my email accounts
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: what a day
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: well used the address from an account
02:39 PM gloops: pakistan alter ego could be useful Capt, keep the facebook a/c
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: nah already deleted it
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: useful/fun until somebody gets hurt
02:40 PM gloops: true, unlikely these are harmless pranksters
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: I keep getting his emails since he makes soo many typos with his accounts
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: I did make some nice posts for product reviews
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: he seems like the kind that would play with the button on his going to heaven vest
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: he whats this do if you twist it rather than press?
02:49 PM Connor: Hey, so I was wondering if I'm going to have issues with the RPM settings on my bridgeport... My J head has the following RPMS..
02:49 PM Connor: Back Gear: 160 270 420 650, Normal: 1320 2230 3500 5440
02:49 PM Connor: normal bridgeport has..
02:50 PM Connor: Back Gear: 80 135 210 325, Normal: 660 1115 1750 2720
02:50 PM SpeedEvil: Well, that extra half speed could be great for small drilling
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: did you swap something?
02:50 PM SpeedEvil: but sucks for low speed.
02:51 PM Connor: Nope. That's what the name plate on the head has..
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: and a higher high speed
02:51 PM SpeedEvil: VFD may get you some of it back
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: 2x
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: use it for aluminum and call it a day
02:52 PM Connor: Yea, it's twice the speed across the board.. but, it will be used for steel.. I'm just wondering how often you need those lower ranges?
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: mostly for steel
02:53 PM gloops: remember the old adage
02:53 PM gloops: 'slow for steel fast for wood'
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: mine is stuck in High since I have to fix the Low clutch
02:53 PM Connor: I still have the slower speeds.. just not the same ones...
02:54 PM Connor: can't do 80RPM's but.. 160 isn't bad..
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: did you swap heads?
02:55 PM Connor: No. This is what it had when I bought it.. I didn't realize that most J heads where the other way.. Like I said.. I think this Head was used on a duplicator.. so it was probably running at a faster speed for wood or alum work..
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f20/56191d1343943787-bridgeport-mill-spindle-bearing-max-speed-2012-06-18_05-53-46_842.jpg
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: interesting
02:56 PM Connor: The quill had never been used.. and swarf on the BACK of the head indicates it was side by side with another one..
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: I'll trade you mills :)
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: I'd rather have the higher speeds
02:57 PM Connor: It's in the Maker Space.. so, I have no idea what someone will be cutting on it.. so, the larger range is probably a good thing..
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: have a pic of the head?
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: I didn't know that they made a version like yours
02:57 PM Connor: let me look.
02:58 PM rk__ is now known as ramkam2017
02:58 PM ramkam2017: hello!
02:58 PM Contract_Pilot: Just told by a Path Pilot non beta tester Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa
02:58 PM ramkam2017: just bought a cnc ... and i need some hints :-)
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133346&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1389525098
02:58 PM Contract_Pilot: is what Distro 2.0 is on
02:59 PM ramkam2017: any1 kind enough to steer my google searches in the right direction?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: what EXACTLY are you looking for?
03:01 PM ramkam2017: the machine i got is a 3020 with a planet cnc USB + a box with power & probably drivers. I'm using a mac. Makes things complicated to run their software. I'm looking for ways to workit around. Ideally, with a open source softs
03:01 PM andypugh: Or, even, approximately?
03:01 PM Contract_Pilot: ramkam go down to where the red mail box used ot be take a right continue strait to where the church that burnt down in 1980 used to be take a left.
03:01 PM ramkam2017: Contract_Pilot: yeah ok
03:01 PM Connor: CaptHindsight: Getting the picture.. one minute
03:02 PM andypugh: ramkam2017: USB means that LinuxCNC is not an option. (And LinuxCNC doesn’t currently run on a Mac either)
03:02 PM ramkam2017: i'm trying to understand what data goes past the USBCNC box, ie, on the serial
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: found a couple online
03:02 PM andypugh: You can probably use VMware Fusion and whatever software was supplied with the machine to drive it.
03:02 PM ramkam2017: andypugh: (but runs in a VM, or runs on my raspi)
03:03 PM ramkam2017: andypugh: tried virtualbox, the driver is installed but not seing the controller
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: USB can be fun on virtualbox at times
03:03 PM andypugh: And you can use Autodesk Fusion 360 natively on the Mac to a) design parts and make G-code and b) get confused about having two software packages called “Fusion”
03:03 PM Simonious: now I just apparently do have bad signal from the Y-axis quadrature
03:03 PM Simonious: ok.. DRO is fine now.. fixed voltage setting on it's internal power supply and it was still bad, but had recovered by morning.. odd
03:04 PM ramkam2017: i have a serial to USB adapter in a drawer. i wonder if i can get past the USB CNC and drive the steppers directly via linuxcnc for ex
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: have you opend the controller yet to see if the drives are separate?
03:04 PM Connor: CaptHindsight: http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/BridgePort/IMG_3488.JPG
03:04 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: was about to
03:04 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: give me a sec
03:05 PM andypugh: Yes, in theory you could drive the stepper drivers direcltly and bypass the USBCNC controller. But the USB to Serial adaptor would play absolutely no part in that plan
03:05 PM Contract_Pilot: Need a linux basedc cad cam
03:05 PM andypugh: FreeCAD?
03:05 PM andypugh: I have been plating with it a bit recently and it is definitely gettting there
03:06 PM Contract_Pilot: Fusion 360 Crawls on my laptop
03:06 PM Connor: CaptHindsight: more in there.. http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/BridgePort
03:06 PM andypugh: Fusion 360 is rather nice on my iMac
03:06 PM andypugh: (ramkam2017 You are not the only Mac user here)
03:06 PM Connor: Some pictures of it mounted on my bars..
03:07 PM gloops: agree freecad has many new/improved features, path workbench looking useable finally
03:07 PM Connor: FreeCAD kept crashing on my every time I turned around...
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: looks like they offered a 3600 RPM motor vs 1800
03:07 PM Connor: CaptHindsight: So, it's not a gearing change.. it's the motor.. interesting..
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:08 PM gloops: not had problems with freecad crashing, i dont like that yellowed out sketch thing that happens though
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: looks like you could order a mill with speeds up to 12k rpm
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: with the M heads
03:08 PM Connor: M head would have been a bit dangerous in a community workshop.. people play with the speed dials without the motor running..
03:09 PM gloops: what do you want to design - metal parts or wood/artistic?
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/bridgeport-and-hardinge-mills-and-lathes/bridgeport-high-speed-m-head-117478/
03:11 PM Connor: Maybe Not the M head.. the one with variable speed... is the one I'm talking about.
03:11 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: here we go: https://imgur.com/a/v7k44
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: worst case you could swap in new stepper drivers and a break out board and use LCNC
03:12 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yep, that's an option too
03:12 PM ramkam2017: and that's what will happen in some weeks, but for now i need to make it work
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: I don't see a USB connector on the stepper board
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: looks like LPT
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: 26 pin connector near top right of pic
03:14 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: just added it: https://imgur.com/a/v7k44
03:15 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yes, there's a controller in serial, and another one that bridges the serial to the usb
03:15 PM ramkam2017: seems the real "controller" is in that bridge element
03:15 PM ramkam2017: so wondered if i could bypass it
03:15 PM Contract_Pilot: looks like one of them china TB based BOB/Driver combos
03:15 PM ramkam2017: could reuse a ramps board :-)
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: take a look at the LPT signals with a scope
03:16 PM gloops: im also going to be using blender, when i do have a working machine again https://postimg.org/image/bwt6uqfw5/
03:16 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: to see if they're just triggering TTL signals for step and dir?
03:16 PM ramkam2017: (got no scope here)
03:17 PM ramkam2017: (but if any of you recognise the board, i can read a datasheet)
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: ok then see if there is a DIR signal with a meter
03:17 PM Contract_Pilot: Next Time rent a drop deck trailer
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: and DIR will most likely be switched at the same level as STEP
03:18 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: hum, it would work even if the USBCNC box isn't connecting to the software?
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: there might be some Enable signals to sort out
03:18 PM Contract_Pilot: + must have been a union move and rigging 1 guy working 3 standing arround
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: stepper drivers are cheap anyway and a BOB is ~$10
03:19 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: ok, goign to try. Is there a link that describes the architecture of those cheapo 3020's ?
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: too many and in Chinglish
03:20 PM ramkam2017: i mean, when Serial is used, it's usually to just receive ttl ?
03:20 PM ramkam2017: BOB?
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: BOB = break out board
03:20 PM ramkam2017: :-)
03:20 PM ramkam2017: k
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: serial won't help you
03:21 PM ramkam2017: so no controller in there
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: might be USB to LPT converter in that box
03:21 PM ramkam2017: if so i can wire it a ramps from a 3DP and get going
03:22 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: can't see a controller chip on the board
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: never played with ramps much or the *duino stuff
03:22 PM ramkam2017: i guess it's in the box (haven't opened this one yet)
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: things nightmares are made of
03:23 PM Contract_Pilot: when the rain kills your plans
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: Marlin = firmware written by confused minds
03:23 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yeah it's hell to trace the thought, scattered everywhere
03:24 PM ramkam2017: What's a "standard" controller setup when using linuxcnc?
03:25 PM ramkam2017: on hobby machines
03:25 PM ramkam2017: ...
03:25 PM JT-Shop: define the question a bit more
03:25 PM gloops: ten bob BOB
03:26 PM ramkam2017: say i want to diy a cnc and use linux cnc, what electronics should i buy (apart from the stepper drivers)
03:28 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-Interface-Adapter-For-Stepper-Motor-Driver-USB-Cable/192286272369?
03:28 PM gloops: unless you want mesa
03:29 PM ramkam2017: mesa?
03:29 PM ramkam2017: i know a lot about 3DP, but i'm a newbie in CNC electronics
03:29 PM gloops: ethernet - i cant help you with that, but many here can
03:29 PM JT-Shop: mesa
03:30 PM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=78
03:30 PM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66&product_id=66
03:30 PM JT-Shop: first link is the easiest to set up
03:30 PM gloops: thats cheap
03:30 PM JT-Shop: no, that's cost effective
03:31 PM gloops: i mean cheap compared to what we can get it for here
03:31 PM JT-Shop: same price there but the exchange rate might be an issue
03:31 PM gloops: not cheap as in tacky
03:31 PM ramkam2017: ok, i tried looking for names on the board, can't and i don't want to unglue it (!...) in case i want to give it back.
03:31 PM JT-Shop: gloops: where is here?
03:31 PM ramkam2017: i expected some issues, so got another board with the pack. https://imgur.com/a/euPqf
03:32 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: about that india guy, he or she was trying to force you to deal since you already got money. I had couple like that
03:32 PM ramkam2017: supposed to work with mach3 ... i guess that's more "open" to other softwares?
03:32 PM gloops: JT - UK
03:32 PM XXCoder: someone paid me for couple of items in my old store and told me "I think this is enough for those items" and it was $100 short
03:33 PM XXCoder: and other one paid $10 more, but shipping was $40 (very big order)
03:33 PM JT-Shop: shipping to UK is about $25 so weigh that in with your exchange rate to get an actual comparison in prices
03:33 PM XXCoder: in both cases I refunded
03:33 PM XXCoder: and also blocked those buyers
03:33 PM ramkam2017: Got it. I have a spare MK1 board.
03:34 PM JT-Shop: gloops: I PM'd you
03:34 PM gloops: yes youre right JT, tbh i never considered that, ive only seen 1 or 2 examples on ebay uk and they were pricey - i suppose thats sellers markup
03:35 PM JT-Shop: probably by the time they get the cards they have a lot more invested in them than I do
03:36 PM ramkam2017: damn. Seems i'm screwed to install windows
03:37 PM MarcelineVQ: ramkam2017: why is that?
03:37 PM ramkam2017: MarcelineVQ: bought the cnc off the shelf to win time and avoid buying one. Needed it to make some parts immediately
03:38 PM ramkam2017: s/avoid buying/building
03:38 PM MarcelineVQ: I mean why do you need windows?
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: I got a request from a "buyer" in Brazil to mark the customs value of the shipments to %50 less
03:38 PM Contract_Pilot: My Motors been tracking them, Shipment arrive at 【Shenzhen Distribution Center】
03:39 PM ramkam2017: i'm not finding much infos on the board that is in the power box, and i'm a bit wary of how much time it will take to guess it
03:39 PM ramkam2017: and the usb driver provided with the software is refusing to work on a VM.
03:39 PM ramkam2017: ...
03:40 PM ramkam2017: maybe i skipped infos. let me check
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: I had a USB device that would change USB id's on the fly and in doing so would not work with VB
03:40 PM ramkam2017: i did
03:40 PM ramkam2017: :-)
03:41 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: got the pins - https://imgur.com/a/Fqhtz
03:42 PM ramkam2017: got two options, wire a arduino+ramps or use the mk1 i have lying around.
03:43 PM ramkam2017: any open tools you know of that allows me talk to a MK1? it uses serial over usb (could program a gcode sender)
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: if you have a LPT in then all you need is LCNC PC with LPT
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC PC, LPT OUT ----> LPT IN
03:45 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: k, so if i got it right, LCNC just programs the LPT controller to send the signals with a nice timing
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: the PC is the LPT controller and yes
03:45 PM ramkam2017: i wonder if a usb to LPT dongle would work
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: no
03:46 PM ramkam2017: thought so :-)
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: USB is not real time
03:46 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: even Serial over USB ? i mean, all the reprap stuff is based on that
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: the desv could have decided to support USB but it would become almost 2 separate projects
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: desv/devs
03:47 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: the only thing that is done is checksum control and resend
03:47 PM ramkam2017: (i wrote a sender)
03:48 PM ramkam2017: but yes ok you're right, wont work
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/code/LinuxCNC-block-diagram-small.png
03:48 PM ramkam2017: damn.
03:48 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: super helpfull, let me see if i understand it all
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/common/images/whatstep1.png
03:49 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yes, the controller is the serial comms chip
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: where is the block diagram for how Marlin/*duino/Ramps does it?
03:51 PM ramkam2017: could i use an arduino as a controller (serial is 5V right?) or is it only made to work with the serial board controller?
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: what is this serial you mention?
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: where is it from? where does it go?
03:52 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: if i avoid the serial of the board that contain the drivers, i loose the drivers.
03:53 PM ramkam2017: and with the pc's i have, i got no possibility to use a serial PCI card
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: LPT PCI/e card?
03:54 PM ramkam2017: so, if there's a way (like somebody did it) to use an arduino to convert instructions from LCNC to TTL signals to the LPT of the drivers board ...
03:54 PM ramkam2017: Serial card for PC's
03:54 PM ramkam2017: sorry, i'm old
03:54 PM ramkam2017: it was PCI last time i used a pc :-)
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC doesn't run on a *duino
03:55 PM ramkam2017: yes it wont ^^
03:56 PM ramkam2017: forget it i'm overcomplicating it
03:56 PM ramkam2017: Got that thing lying around. http://blog.pennybuying.com/down/a/A504A.pdf
03:56 PM ramkam2017: any use with LCNC ?
03:57 PM ramkam2017: (just started reading it, sorry if i'm asking a stupid question)
03:57 PM Contract_Pilot: Custom Nema 42 Dual Shaft for my z Azis http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/B5EA6A3E-B386-4E00-9D13-B9EDF1EAFB28.jpeg
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC can connect to stepper drivers with LPT, Ethernet (PCIe FPGA card) or PCI/e FPGA
03:58 PM Contract_Pilot: 3 phase yes, 4 wire the 4th is chassis ground
03:59 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: ok got it. Thanks for the hints. Will probably get back here once i get the propper boards :-)
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: thats another USB controller, so no
04:00 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: indeed. was wondering it i could use it with open source things. Just fishing for hints to get the thing working now
04:00 PM Contract_Pilot: So got the LPT Cable to plug in to this LPT headder to check and see if this LPT work on this Mobo..
04:00 PM ramkam2017: not necessarely LCNC, sorry about that (i'd love too but i dont have the electronics now)
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: check over at #reprap and similar
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: or GRBL
04:01 PM Contract_Pilot: Nothing in the bios on LPT port setting will assume it is default lpt1 address
04:01 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: grbl still active?
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: they are the masochists :)
04:01 PM ramkam2017: actually i have enough to get going. Thanks for helping me put ideas straight
04:01 PM Contract_Pilot: Was an option with the PC but should be able to enable disable in the bios?
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: don't really follow it
04:02 PM ramkam2017: only one person in grbl, me.
04:02 PM ramkam2017: :D
04:03 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/47AA836D-49F2-4557-82AF-799AB75BE11E-1024x768.jpeg
04:04 PM ramkam2017: btw, clearpath servos are good stuff or it's overrated?
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: I found the block diagram for marlin http://www.silly-string.com/images/bg_body.png
04:04 PM ramkam2017: hahahaha
04:05 PM ramkam2017: want to see the dependancies of a VoIP / SIP stack?
04:05 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/0F83B78C-587E-4C1E-82FF-45A4D22B763D-e1511996871981-1024x768.jpeg
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: good stuff
04:06 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: it's actually quite trivial. 1/ Receive text & check if it's gcode, 2/ plan pulses on XYZE 3/ drop the pulses
04:06 PM Contract_Pilot: Mesa Card Looks Good In the PC http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/F31995C2-DE4D-4627-B582-F55769A34C16-1024x768.jpeg
04:07 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: head so (clearpath). tempted to use these to build a robot arm
04:07 PM ramkam2017: weight to power much better than steppers
04:08 PM Contract_Pilot: I want to do a Microcell.
04:08 PM Contract_Pilot: or Fem2cell
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: yes but LCNC has features for much more
04:08 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: tell me, i'd love to have starting points
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: closed loop and real time sync to external events
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: it's not just open loop stepping
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: like you find with the toy cnc routers
04:09 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yes, that's definitively a plus. The gcode sender i made was to make probing. It's awefully slow
04:10 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: so how does it work, you program routines to exec when an event occurs?
04:10 PM ramkam2017: for ex, could i hookup opencv to detect an object and use that to steer the motors?
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: yes
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: edge detect (sobel or similar filter) and Zero there
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/2u5W3RNmUMtN.jpg 50um gap, sobel
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/2u5XXEUdLjMj.jpg 50um gap
04:12 PM ramkam2017: nice!
04:13 PM ramkam2017: tried doing 3D probing using the focus of a camera
04:13 PM ramkam2017: was a bit more complicated than i thought, especially because it was not realtime
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: we sync inkjet printheads and lasers to motion
04:14 PM Deejay: gn8
04:15 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yay
04:15 PM ramkam2017: now i'm interested. if want to tinker with inket, any hardware i should look into / not too steep to start with?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: Epson is low cost and piezo
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: you can get a used one for <$100 and RE the driving pulses
04:19 PM ramkam2017: RE is the hard part :-)
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: well it's all closed source NDA kinda things
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: I recently signed an NDA with an inkjet head manufacturer and all they sent were the marketing sheets
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's like pulling teeth to get real docs
04:20 PM ramkam2017: there was a talk some time ago at CCC but he never released the infos :-)
04:21 PM ramkam2017: 27C3
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: the HP gen1 tij heads have been RE'd
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: there used to be some kits
04:21 PM ramkam2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfCatc1HieE
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: ~96 nozzles
04:22 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: i think the interest started with bio inkjetting e-coli cells. Smaller than 96 dpi is too small for the cells to go through them
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8542
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: Escherichia coli is a rod-shaped bacterium. Each bacterium measures approximately 0.5 μm in width by 2 μm in length.
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: no problem for just about any inkjet head
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: some heads can't handle aqueous since they are shared wall tech and the fluids can't be conductive
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: the nozzles on the old Gen1 HP heads are probably >100um dia
04:26 PM ramkam2017: yep, i think i need to rampup my electronics skills before RE though
04:26 PM ramkam2017: dream is to inkjet wax ...
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.esma-archive.com/downloads2017/day1-track1/04%20HP%20-%20C.%20Olbrich%20-%20TheIJC2017.pdf
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: for wax you can hack a Xerox that used the textronix heads
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: they are the solid wax inkjets
04:28 PM ramkam2017: thanks for the tip!
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: think it's the ColorQube series
04:29 PM ramkam2017: Piezzo?
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CDgDpPD7AU
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: yes with an integrated heater in the heads
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: they go up to 125C or so
04:31 PM ramkam2017: interesting. Tried using fdm like processes some time ago, was really hard to control the temperature because wax likes to change from solid to liquid in large chunks
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: depends on the wax
04:32 PM ramkam2017: used parrafine ... so probably not optimal :-)
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: like hot melts, lots of formulations
04:32 PM ramkam2017: discovered later jeweler wax - more progressive
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: there are other printheads for wax but they aren't low budget
04:32 PM ramkam2017: it's petrol basically
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: few $k
04:33 PM ramkam2017: yikes
04:33 PM ramkam2017: rule for my diy, stay below 2k
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: most heads are $1k-6K
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: depends on nozzle count, speed, drop volume, binary vs grey scale etc etc
04:34 PM ramkam2017: any hooks on those?
04:34 PM ramkam2017: certainly out of budget, but my curiosity wins :-)
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: well without specs for driving them you're stuck
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: or you need to buy a working printer and RE
04:35 PM ramkam2017: yep
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.allprintheads.com/collections/printheads
04:36 PM ramkam2017: hahaha, the land of the printhead
04:36 PM ramkam2017: was looking for that thing
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: no specs
04:36 PM ramkam2017: indeed
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: all NDA and with real control freaks
04:36 PM ramkam2017: there's a guy that had a different approach
04:37 PM ramkam2017: instead of metling the wax to jet it, he deposited a layer of solid wax (powder) then used the thermal array of faxes to melt where he needed it
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: what do you want the wax to adhere to?
04:38 PM ramkam2017: to wax...
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: 3d print?
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: or just a layer over a wax substrate
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: so multi vs 1
04:38 PM ramkam2017: indeed. it allows creating cavities with complex shapes. parrafin is liquid enough to be ejected afterwards
04:38 PM ramkam2017: there's plenty of use cases
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: SLS is the another option
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: -the
04:39 PM ramkam2017: SLS has its share of madness too. It's about shaping the powder so that it is super uniform
04:39 PM ramkam2017: and heating the container uniformly
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/w800/3i0LDN2s3TZ7.jpg LCNC controlled SLS
04:41 PM ramkam2017: this is interesting / make a good use case for LCNC - https://3dprint.com/195619/mit-fastfff/
04:41 PM ramkam2017: actually, the whole 3DP approach lacks a feedback loop. There's so many problem that could be solved. Hence my interest in LCNC
04:42 PM ramkam2017: (the video in the link is self speaking)
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: http://sci-hub.bz/downloads/3266/go2017.pdf
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: somebody was mentioning that the other day
04:43 PM ramkam2017: yes, got it :-)
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: not sure what the hubub is all about
04:43 PM ramkam2017: hubub?
04:43 PM ramkam2017: the buzz?
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: laser assisted extruder
04:44 PM ramkam2017: what limits the speed of fdm 3dp is the ability to spit material fast
04:44 PM ramkam2017: fiber laser packs a lot of power without making the head heavy
04:45 PM ramkam2017: cqfd
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: I though it was too many idiot con men peddling their crap and clouding the market
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: though/thought
04:46 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: the missing thing in fdm is to detect how the extrusion is going, and adjust. Or, have a super homogen material and super controlled temperature environment
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: hhmmm like a gear pump used in extruders
04:48 PM ramkam2017: and fdm has some advantages vs other processes, it's altogether much simpler to use, and, if you want to, you can dump crazy amounts of material quickly (then CNC for the tolerances)
04:48 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: yes
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: like I've been saying for years
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: oh well
04:49 PM ramkam2017: and having the ability to adjust the process while printing opens to other extrusion techniques. Been trying stuff like that. Impossible without a realtime feedback
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: is anyone making large orifice extruders? say 2-4mm dia for FFF?
04:49 PM ramkam2017: yes
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: I've only seen toys
04:50 PM ramkam2017: lockheed martin
04:50 PM ramkam2017: extruding PEEK in 3mm
04:51 PM ramkam2017: and for completely crazy stuff:
04:52 PM ramkam2017: https://vimeo.com/158804653
04:52 PM ramkam2017: they invited me to visit the lab, but i think i might be a bit overwhelmed :-D
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: just looking for off the shelf extruders
04:53 PM ramkam2017: Ah
04:53 PM ramkam2017: E3D volcano
04:53 PM ramkam2017: 1.6mm i guess
04:53 PM BeachBumPete: https://imgur.com/a/Akbtx :)
04:53 PM ramkam2017: if you do good lapping you can do the thing yourself
04:54 PM BeachBumPete: feels almost like Christmas LOL
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: bender arrived?
04:54 PM BeachBumPete: yeah FINALLY
04:54 PM BeachBumPete: it looks pretty nice in person actually so far but I just opened the box
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: I can build almost anything but I don't have the time
04:55 PM ramkam2017: same here :-)
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: why I asked about off the shelf
04:55 PM ramkam2017: the E3D guys are doing a good job in extruders
04:56 PM ramkam2017: beep me if you need infos on 3DP :-)
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64XESsTfv_4
04:57 PM ramkam2017: the trickiest part is to understand that the material will shrink, and that the layers below need time to cool
04:57 PM ramkam2017: (versus being impatient and speed it up to the max)
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: too small an extruder
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: we make the thermoplastics and resins
04:58 PM ramkam2017: some guys have made their own large nozzle extruders
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: just looking for parts vs having to build
04:58 PM ramkam2017: not very continuous though, but works
04:59 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpl6EPlCF2E
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: the problem with working with FDM/FFF is all the noise from maker types and the junk they peddle
05:00 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: depends, it has a good side. 3 years ago i bareley knew anything about all this
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: I still want an industrial extruder and nozzle up to 5mm ID
05:01 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: that's showoff, but interesting inventory of challenges - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_1zu6ZhmDk
05:01 PM ramkam2017: CaptHindsight: use pistons
05:01 PM ramkam2017: like in injection molding
05:02 PM ramkam2017: fill the chamber and expulse the material. Then you can have a sharp stop of extrusion (that's the hard part)
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: our local Kuka salesperson was too wacky to deal with
05:03 PM ramkam2017: hahaha
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: might have come from used auto sales
05:03 PM ramkam2017: i'm trying to make them lend me an arm to tinker with
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: there were some used on ebay for <$1k and pretty good sized
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: maybe 1-2m envelope
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: x-welding bots
05:04 PM ramkam2017: it's new for me, but if you can help me clearing our the completely damaged ones, i'd be game
05:05 PM ramkam2017: s/our/out
05:11 PM ramkam2017: was looking again at the block diagram of LCNC
05:11 PM ramkam2017: are there things available in the IK for a hexapod like delta? or a stewart platform?
05:12 PM ramkam2017: or tools that help calculating the ik ?
05:12 PM ramkam2017: (lost my maths some time ago)
05:13 PM ramkam2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_UmhUjZhNo
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: ramkam2017: yes, lcnc has different kinematics models
05:14 PM ramkam2017: i'm a bit new on that, no idea where to start
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/motion_kinematics.html
05:15 PM ramkam2017: :)
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: there are several models to choose from and modify
05:17 PM ramkam2017: yay. i could stay hours here
05:17 PM ramkam2017: :-)
05:17 PM ramkam2017: but i'll probably bore everyone, and skip sleeping
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: heh days weeks
05:17 PM ramkam2017: been a pleasure
07:00 PM Crom: ugh, now the cadiallac has a tread whine noise from the front left, could be tire, could be bearings...
08:01 PM Elmoo40: hello room. Anyone seen these 'hybrid servo drives' before?
08:01 PM Elmoo40: http://www.astrosurf.com/jd85/ESA/HBS-90-8.2.PDF
08:04 PM Elmoo40: '2-phase stepper motor... with internal encoder...' Sounds odd to me. I'd like to see it in action. It is only 8.2A, though. Not for hogging out armour plate ;-)
08:05 PM gregcnc_: stepper with encoder feedback. gaining popularity
08:06 PM skunkworks: they work ok I assume. rather have servos :)
08:09 PM Elmoo40: only 8N.m of holding torque. Sounds small to me.
08:09 PM Elmoo40: Maybe only good for a plasma/laser table, or a light weight router table.
08:10 PM gregcnc_: 8Nm isn't exactly small.
08:12 PM Elmoo40: i guess not. but nothing what the motors in the Mazaks that I used to run ;-)
08:12 PM Elmoo40: CAT50 spindle... nuff said!
08:22 PM _nexxus__ is now known as _nexxus_