#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 24 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:41 AM IchGucksLive: good morning
01:20 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ME-8108-Momentary-AC-Limit-Switch-Roller-Lever-CNC-Mill-Plasma-Waterproof-Useful/152797987775?
01:20 AM gloops: any good?
01:20 AM IchGucksLive: i use the 8111
01:21 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TZ-8111-Plunger-Type-Momentary-2NO-2NC-Limit-Switch-for-CNC-Mill-Plasma/191754200967?
01:22 AM IchGucksLive: never got a problem with them
01:22 AM archivist: choose your poison https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Actuator-Micro-Limit-Switch-ME-8108-8104-8107-8111-8112-8122-8166-8169-9101/222614860841
01:23 AM IchGucksLive: this ones are inductivhttps://www.ebay.de/itm/Induktiver-Naherungsschalter-Naherungssensor-LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Three-Wire-Schlieser-/252314884820?hash=item3abf239ad4:g:2TQAAOSwxvxW7Gq4
01:24 AM gloops: into january with delivery now though
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Endschalter-Rollenschalter-Grenztaster-Limit-Switch-Positionstaster-Endtaster-ME/162316373867?hash=item25cacf4f6b:m:mfZ7hHjXPNhTn75duYuWRmA
01:24 AM archivist: look for local stock
01:25 AM archivist: I got some chinesium in 3 days last week
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: search LJ12A3-4-Z-BX
01:25 AM gloops: well have got some of the roller type, so wont be stuck for them
01:26 AM gloops: they seem to have a lot of travel to activate the switch though
01:26 AM gloops: dont suppose it matters
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: all the small mills got cherry DB3 switches
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: they are bleow 0,05mm position
01:27 AM gloops: the LJs come up locally Ichs
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: you need to saearch yourself as i got only local deals presented
01:28 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Detection-Switch-NPN-DC6-36V-4mm/122206045078?
01:28 AM IchGucksLive: realy good deal
01:28 AM IchGucksLive: you can bring all top one relay
01:29 AM gloops: some cheaper ones
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: 12V Relay A1 - Relay A2 to all Switches Black
01:30 AM monkeyisl: non contact Proximity Sensor ?
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: inductriv
01:31 AM gloops: optical yeah, dont know about those
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: about 6-8mm switch distance
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: they also detect AL
01:31 AM gloops: have heard some issues with them, but good accuracy i think
01:31 AM monkeyisl: hmm those are .. all not so accurate as far as in experencied.
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: accurecy depends on day humanity and EM
01:32 AM monkeyisl: on contact switch is legit.
01:32 AM monkeyisl: *only
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: best accuracy is cherry DB3
01:32 AM monkeyisl: non contact --- super expesive for accuracy
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: with below 0,03
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: bever got more
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: never
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: the LJ12 stay within 0,1
01:34 AM monkeyisl: i ended up with contact type zprobe while building 3d trash.
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: as my expirences over 5 jears
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: y
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: im off 2 school
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: later ;-)
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: how does this sound from a 70+ im off 2 school
01:35 AM monkeyisl: gloops : btw also feedrate has to be very slow to get high accuracy... as u know.
01:37 AM monkeyisl: gloops : are you adding endstops anyway..
01:37 AM monkeyisl: ?>
01:38 AM gloops: monkey yes must have switches of some kind to home 2 motors
01:38 AM gloops: it searches at a set speed, bumps the switch, backs off and then crawls back for it much slower
01:39 AM monkeyisl: you 'll see some random number if you use non contact. like a few hundred steps according to your microsteps per rev.
01:39 AM gloops: so not to over run
01:39 AM monkeyisl: ahh ok right
01:40 AM monkeyisl: btw even it's slow it will be kinda random. a 1xx steps so what i had to do is like 5 test and sum drops too high too low and average rest. etc..
01:41 AM gloops: i see
01:41 AM monkeyisl: in 3d printer, the use raft for 0 layers to make it flat. but in cnc.. well. i don't know.. it has to very accurate i guess.
01:41 AM gloops: probably be a few weeks before i start with them anyway
01:42 AM monkeyisl: that's why i'm not bother with endstops for homing in cnc.. my setup won't have it.
01:42 AM monkeyisl: cuz i will fail to make it useful.
01:42 AM gloops: im not too concerned with accuracy in general, but the twin motors need to be in synch - only way is to use switches for positioning
01:43 AM monkeyisl: yup
01:45 AM gloops: also going to have to bite the bullet and order 2 aluminium plates, as i really want 8 inch wide not the 6 inch i made
01:46 AM monkeyisl: inch!. are you in america?
01:46 AM gloops: nah UK
01:47 AM monkeyisl: ahh UK uses inch too?.
01:47 AM gloops: 2@ 200x400x15mm = £90
01:47 AM monkeyisl: what
01:47 AM monkeyisl: ripoff
01:48 AM gloops: we used to, its still common to use inches for convenience
01:48 AM gloops: i wouldnt work in inches
01:49 AM gloops: its a lot of cash for what it is, but they are necessary
01:50 AM monkeyisl: it's free in china!
01:50 AM monkeyisl: j/k
01:51 AM gloops: ally is virtually free here, but casting and machining isnt
01:52 AM monkeyisl: oh u mean they are going to route it and tapping so 90 includs extra work?
01:53 AM gloops: no, i mean scrap ally is cheap, but turning it into plates isnt cheap
01:53 AM gloops: ill do the drilling
01:53 AM gloops: steel plate - too heavy
01:53 AM gloops: steel sections like box section - too many problems affecting design and construction
01:54 AM monkeyisl: ahh. k 1.5T 600 x 1200 alu plate is like 28 usd for me.
01:55 AM monkeyisl: er? i meant 15T
01:55 AM gloops: i made some 6 inch plates which is the limit of what i can cast, but i set out with a design for 8 inch footprint for liner bearings, stupid to compromise now
01:58 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Plate-6082T6-10mm-12mm-16mm-20mm-25mm-30mm-40mm-50mm-60mm-1-2-Thick/281757264594?
02:02 AM archivist: you can get ground ally plate for accurate
02:04 AM Deejay: moin
02:05 AM monkeyisl: archivist : what's ground ally plate
02:05 AM gloops: no accuracy specs with these standard plates, on ebay or elsewhere
02:05 AM gloops: assuming theyre near enough - i can true true them up if need be
02:06 AM gloops: i dont need 0.0001
02:07 AM archivist: monkeyisl, they grind it flat not plain rolled
02:09 AM archivist: local machine builder uses it and scraps end up at a particular yard
02:10 AM gloops: they should be flat, thickness is not an issue, if theyre flat within .05 thats good enough, .1 probably think of doing somwthing with them
02:12 AM gloops: have made gantry to suit 8 inch space between rails - this is for 8 inch z travel, logic dictates 8 inch between z rails too
02:13 AM gloops: 6 inch plate only gives 5 inch between centre of bearings - probably good enough but may as well stick to the plan and the principles
02:13 AM archivist: my mk1 base was sawn, had to file it flat
02:14 AM Valen: that sounds like a plesant experience archivist
02:14 AM archivist: not as bad as you think
02:15 AM archivist: left a pattern http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_02_03_cnc/P2030017.JPG
02:16 AM gloops: ally sands up well
02:20 AM monkeyisl: i've seen some epoxy bed @ hackaday
02:23 AM monkeyisl: https://hackaday.io/project/18955-epoxy-concrete-cnc-milling-machine anyone tried? LOL
02:23 AM monkeyisl: oh they are frames. ok.
02:24 AM archivist: valen was going to, I seem to remember some pics
02:25 AM monkeyisl: valen : beep
02:38 AM Valen: monkeyisl: ?
02:38 AM Valen: oh epoxy granite stuff we made a head for our mill out of the stuff
03:12 AM absynth is now known as dan2wik
04:02 AM XXCoder: dang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-vfPDHVxQc
04:04 AM XXCoder: looks amazing
06:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi folks its rianing in germany ;-)
06:40 AM IchGucksLive: i did a test on the chees last 4hr as running only on G0
06:40 AM IchGucksLive: it is a Dirty pice of mashine as it did mill lots of stuff last week
06:41 AM XXCoder: cnc cutting cheese?
06:41 AM IchGucksLive: PCB all on G0 at 900mm7min
06:41 AM IchGucksLive: and i did not lost a single step at the dial
06:42 AM XXCoder: ah
06:42 AM IchGucksLive: WHY this test
06:42 AM IchGucksLive: i did a new calibration last friday
06:43 AM IchGucksLive: and as i do this every month i looked if there is somthing to the nuts
06:43 AM IchGucksLive: its a real cheep stuff setup
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: only the steper are 1graded
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: a dream
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: at 0,26backlash
06:46 AM IchGucksLive: as i am nearly"forced" to change the system next year
06:46 AM IchGucksLive: forced by price drop
07:09 AM IchGucksLive: TetzlaffTobias: online
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: till later
07:49 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPshhkYpCBY
08:02 AM gloops: the old dean smith and grace went for very little
08:03 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172985484264?_trksid=p2471758.m4704
08:04 AM archivist: did you win is the important bit
08:06 AM gloops: no, wasnt in, i forgot it ended at that time
08:06 AM gloops: less than i thought though i might have gone to that at a stretch
08:07 AM archivist: larger stuff is cheap due to modellers not liking too big
08:07 AM gloops: yeah its a big item, only 22 inch between though, tonne and half there i think
08:07 AM archivist: pricer per ton in our favour
08:11 AM gloops: well its gone, dont see them that often
08:15 AM archivist: need a bigger shed
08:16 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Small-Adcock-Shipley-milling-machine/302536128109?
08:17 AM archivist: I already have that one in my watch list
08:17 AM archivist: should clean up
08:18 AM gloops: looks ok
08:18 AM archivist: looks like some/most of the horizontal bits are missing
08:20 AM archivist: shame they did not put the model number, the vertical head might fit mine
08:20 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cincinnati-no-3-Milling-machine/302538229719? thats back on, same place
08:22 AM archivist: heavy lump
08:23 AM gloops: well better cut some steel
08:23 AM archivist: I am making space for double glazing delivery
10:35 AM archivist: gloops, b&q was getting rid of some treated wood bundles today
10:36 AM gloops: black friday?
10:36 AM archivist: yes £3 bundle
10:36 AM archivist: fence type
10:37 AM archivist: and some white
10:37 AM gloops: not been in a B&Q recently they closed the one nearest here
10:38 AM archivist: were 3 in derby now one
10:39 AM gloops: were they fence board - 4 foot something like that?
10:40 AM archivist: first went to wickes, shorter 1.8 I think
10:41 AM archivist: pile of twisted junk in wickes, oooooh clearance in b&q
10:42 AM gloops: oh thats what you went for - thought youd just spotted them looking round
10:42 AM gloops: you have to watch the timber in diy barns, everyone sorts through it and leaves the warped stuff
10:43 AM SpeedEvil: Builders merchant deliveries are better. There they carefully select the timber, so you don't accidentally get any that are unwarped.
10:48 AM archivist: gloops, I went for 47*70*2400 got them almost straight in bq, the 6ft stuff was oooooh shiny
10:49 AM archivist: have to select your own wood in these places :)
10:50 AM archivist: got to make a new frame bellow the dining room window
10:50 AM gloops: wickes have those cheap studding lengths, white pine, its about 40x65 i think
10:50 AM gloops: often bent to hell
10:51 AM gloops: changing the window archivist - sitting it on a new base?
10:53 AM archivist: all the windows are rotten 1961 vintage
10:55 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/house/page0073.jpeg
10:55 AM archivist: 1961 image
10:55 AM archivist: might be about 1963 as the garage is there
10:57 AM gloops: ready for doing then heh
10:58 AM archivist: was ready 20 years ago
10:58 AM gloops: fixing with concrete screws? or foam
10:59 AM archivist: yes....screws and foam :)
11:00 AM archivist: the dining room window frame had a 1/4 gap along the top where it has dropped due to rot at the bottom
11:01 AM gloops: the self tapping concrete screws spax type are good - bit easier than plug type, dont know if youve used them
11:01 AM archivist: had/has
11:01 AM archivist: yes have some of those and used them for window fitting
11:02 AM archivist: into brick or anything
11:03 AM gloops: good things, i didnt trust them when i first saw them but rarely use the plug type for anything now
11:06 AM archivist: I used to go out on service calls with the window company, seen some crap :)
11:16 AM gloops: when the big drive to change from wood to upvc was on a lot of lads were set on to fit windows who didnt have much idea - or consideration lol
11:18 AM gloops: the big private companies were sales orientated, sales directed everything - it wasnt as if it was a building company or anything
11:18 AM gloops: throw the windows in, collect the cheque, that will do
11:22 AM archivist: yup, not changed too much
11:23 AM archivist: although the local company is 25 years old now
11:24 AM archivist: and now fitters have some training and exam in the last few years
11:27 AM gloops: some not so near relation of mine did ok with it in lincoln, got rich pretty quick after coming out of the army, still going
11:29 AM gloops: not hard to make either - you could easy make the machines to produce upvc windows
11:31 AM archivist: I used to repair the welders and corner milling machine, but he sold the machines in 2008 and started buying in, cheaper
11:31 AM gloops: yeah a lot did that - cant compete with the big manufacturers - well not once they got going
11:32 AM gloops: well, saying that, you could make them a bit cheaper, but hardly worth it
11:32 AM archivist: mark up from the national companies is huge
11:33 AM roycroft: hello, people in the metric part of the world
11:34 AM archivist: I still use thou!
11:34 AM gloops: was a bloke nearby with a unit - some cheap machines he got from auction, making his own frames, could only do external beaded with single head welder, surprising - you could make 8 windows in a day, i helped him out for a bit
11:34 AM roycroft: i have a water-cooled spindle, and want to replace the coolant connectors
11:34 AM roycroft: the ones that came with it are rather odd - they appear similar to flare fittings, but not exactly
11:34 AM roycroft: at any rate, i'd prefer hose barbs or something else
11:35 AM monkeyisl: how linuxcnc handles gpio tiggering? is that something like IRQ? or polling in while loop?
11:35 AM archivist: monkeyisl, it polls
11:35 AM roycroft: the issue is that the threads to the spindle itself are m8-1.0 straight thread, and i'm not finding any pipe/tubing fittings with that thread size
11:35 AM monkeyisl: archivist : too bad.
11:36 AM roycroft: the closest i've found are m8 grease fittings, but most of those do not specify thread pitch, and them that do all say it's 1.25
11:36 AM archivist: monkeyisl, why do you say that, it is within base/servo period
11:36 AM roycroft: do i just have some really bizarre size?
11:37 AM gloops: https://www.advancedfluidsolutions.co.uk/m8-by-1mm-metric-male-x-18-bspp-male-60-coned-straight-hydraulic-adaptor-3212-p.asp
11:37 AM monkeyisl: i found some MCU on 7i76 board. so is that send some uart string to send there is gpio H/L ?
11:38 AM monkeyisl: to fpga*
11:38 AM roycroft: my hours of searching last night came up with nothign
11:38 AM archivist: roycroft, that is SI M8 × 1,0 pipe
11:38 AM roycroft: bsp is still a little problematic for me, but i'm sure i can adapt to that a lot easier than to the m8-1 threads
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:39 AM archivist: you can probably get npt to SI
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: why do you need tis snedings
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: there are realy good pendants that make sings easy
11:39 AM roycroft: i can probably stuff a piece of hose over the 1/8" bsp threads and crimp it down water tight
11:40 AM monkeyisl: IchGucksLive : to use 7i76 GPIOs?
11:40 AM roycroft: this is a very low pressure application
11:40 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: look at xhc-hb-04
11:40 AM roycroft: and that outfit dispatch globally
11:40 AM monkeyisl: IchGucksLive : i have such and?
11:40 AM monkeyisl: MPG stuff
11:41 AM monkeyisl: it generates pulse and.. what's it with gpIO?
11:41 AM roycroft: thanks, gloops
11:41 AM roycroft: that gets me down the road
11:41 AM archivist: monkeyisl, http://wapl.es/cnc/2015/12/04/huanyang-linuxcnc-2.7-speed-control.html
11:43 AM monkeyisl: i don't know exactly thouhg, it looks it's using USB. i expacted to do this trhough anyio.
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: TetzlaffTobias: online ?
11:43 AM monkeyisl: "The VFD takes some time to respond to speed commands. This can be an issue with emergency stops because the spindle won’t stop until about 2 seconds after the button is pressed. I’ve ruined a few tools because of this."
11:44 AM gloops: surprised you arent getting anything local or on ebay roy, quite a few solutions
11:44 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: the hanyang got a output that alrms you at spinlde stop
11:44 AM archivist: spindles always take time to stop unless designed with dc injection or braking resistors
11:44 AM Loetmichel: isnt that the reason why VFDs generally have an Estop input?
11:46 AM Loetmichel: archivist: i understood it the way that it takes an additional few seconds to REACT to a speed command
11:46 AM roycroft: isn't it worse if the spindle stops instantly but the table keeps moving for a couple seconds?
11:46 AM Loetmichel: not to execute it
11:46 AM roycroft: if you're pushing the e-stop button your part is probably ruined already
11:46 AM gregcnc: estaop is worst case scenario it's not intended to save parts, but lives
11:46 AM Loetmichel: indeed
11:47 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: or at least limbs
11:47 AM gregcnc: whatever the case you want everything to stop asap, and that takes careful design
11:48 AM Loetmichel: i had an vfd explode on me when i "estopped" it once
11:48 AM Loetmichel: "working as intended"
11:48 AM gregcnc: dead short across motoro terminals?
11:49 AM Loetmichel: it dc braked with disregard to the DC rail overvoltage
11:49 AM monkeyisl: that's not my point though, my point i'm not sure why there should be delay sending just a few bytes. "he said it takes time" that's because VFD takes time to respond or.. usbuart in lcnc takes time to process ?.. if vfd takes time to process, then i'll be quiet and just use what he has done.
11:49 AM roycroft: i'm sorting out how i'm going to set up the e-stop on my router table right now
11:49 AM roycroft: for that application i think just killing the mains is probably the best way to go
11:50 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: killing the mains is the worst way to implement Estop for brushless ac motors
11:50 AM Loetmichel: they take ages to "trundle out"
11:51 AM roycroft: well, i'll use the stop button on the vfd for routing stopping
11:51 AM roycroft: i need a mains cutoff switch anyway
11:51 AM gregcnc: some can be programmed to brake and will keep the bus up to allow that with mains failure
11:52 AM roycroft: i gues one of the first things i should do is see if this new vfd supports a braking resistor
11:52 AM roycroft: the ones i already have don't
11:52 AM roycroft: but even with a braking resistor it takes time to stop
11:52 AM roycroft: the vfd doesn't dump to the resistor until it has slowed down almost to a stop
11:53 AM gregcnc: yes, you can only do so much
11:53 AM roycroft: it's still a several second process, at best
11:53 AM Loetmichel: if speed is of essence (as in estop generally is): put a big resistor or even just a 2000W halogen lamp on the braking resistor terminals of the VFD and set it to shortest possible stop without overvoltage... normally thats the difference between 15 to 30 seconds "trundle out" and less than 0,5 sec to full stop from 24kRPM
11:53 AM roycroft: the huanyang ones won't dump to the resistor until the frequency is 10Hz or less
11:54 AM roycroft: which takes a while
11:54 AM roycroft: i'm not too concerned about instant stops on a router table
11:55 AM roycroft: where i could really use instant stop is on the belt grinder i'm working on
11:55 AM archivist: with some you play with the deceleration rate
11:55 AM Loetmichel: my spindle set at home begs to differ. with a 2kw halogen lamp as a resistor i can stop the spindle in less than 0,5 seconds from 400Hz.
11:55 AM roycroft: yes, archivist, but that still takes time with the huanyang units
11:55 AM Loetmichel: without overvoltage
11:55 AM Loetmichel: its only an 800W watercooled spindle though
11:55 AM roycroft: i'll test with this new vfd, if it has the dumping circuitry
11:56 AM roycroft: the documentation for the huanyang vfds is less than ideal, but i'm starting to figure the things out
11:56 AM archivist: fasted estop I ever saw was a 3000 presses per minute press going full speed at a show, within a rev iirc
11:57 AM Loetmichel: its actually a bit frightening to see the spindle jerk at its z-axis mount and the "resistor" light up for a split second
11:57 AM * roycroft forgets what resistor he has, but he got it for a 2hp motor, and will test with a 3hp motor
11:57 AM roycroft: hopefully it won't "light up" :)
11:58 AM archivist: I have exploded some resistors, but that was vfd failure on switch on
11:58 AM roycroft: i'll put the resistor in a sturdy box before i test
11:58 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: as i use a halogen lamp (the work light quarz glass "bar" type things) its perfectly allowed to "light up"
11:58 AM roycroft: yes, i get that yours was intended to light up
11:58 AM roycroft: mine is not
11:59 AM roycroft: which is why i hope it doesn't
11:59 AM Loetmichel: i've seen that happen. too
11:59 AM roycroft: if it's not supposed to light up, it's likely to blow up shortly after lighting up
12:00 PM Loetmichel: NOT funny when you see a 4 pack of 20W "concrete" resistors turn bright organge instead of within seconds ;)
12:00 PM Loetmichel: ... 20 cm from your face
12:00 PM Loetmichel: (failed soft start circuit for a big stage audio amplifier)
12:01 PM Loetmichel: s/of/of white
12:01 PM monkeyisl: what homing switch will give me 0.0001 accuracy?..
12:01 PM roycroft: my plan is for nothing to glow or explode
12:01 PM monkeyisl: could I have origin on my platform and use it always after homing?
12:02 PM archivist: monkeyisl, encoder edge
12:02 PM Loetmichel: monkeyisl: depends. do you mean inch or mm? and which switch/configuration?
12:02 PM roycroft: since today is blackout friday (where i refuse to spend any money anywhere for any reason), it would be a good day to test the spindle/vfd
12:02 PM monkeyisl: mm.
12:02 PM archivist: monkeyisl, see home to index in the docs
12:02 PM monkeyisl: if possible 10 micro meters range.
12:02 PM roycroft: i can probably rig up a temporary coolant setup for the spindle, and run it for a while
12:02 PM roycroft: that coolant system i got is really nice, btw
12:02 PM archivist: yes that is possible
12:03 PM Loetmichel: monkeyisl: 0.0001mm accuarcy is VERY unlikely
12:03 PM roycroft: compact and quiet
12:03 PM roycroft: probably 10x the flow i need for the spindle though
12:03 PM monkeyisl: easy u mean? heh
12:03 PM monkeyisl: archivist : o ki'l read up
12:04 PM Wolf__: but also why 0.0001 accuracy, most everything cnc is going to have more run out then that
12:04 PM Loetmichel: even if the switch (in combination with the encoder index) could do that... your machine isnt likely rigid enough to have ANY use of that kind of homing accuracy
12:04 PM Loetmichel: most likely it will have more than 0.01mm "repeatability error"
12:04 PM monkeyisl: so i don't need home endtops fianlly? right?
12:04 PM archivist: could be building a cmm
12:05 PM Loetmichel: monkeyisl: you dont "need" them. they are convenient in most cases
12:05 PM Wolf__: does one re-home a CMM mid job?
12:05 PM Loetmichel: especially if you tend to move by hand a lot
12:05 PM Loetmichel: and dont trust the software endstops
12:06 PM monkeyisl: what's the best solution to align ?
12:06 PM Wolf__: trust but verify, my start up steps are home, then touch off work piece
12:06 PM archivist: align what
12:07 PM Loetmichel: Wolf__: good thing linuxCNC doesent let you touch off before all axis are homed ;)
12:07 PM monkeyisl: for example, i turn on the machine, and put alu, and i'm going to start run gcode, .. but machine needs to be aligned according to my block.
12:08 PM Loetmichel: monkeyisl: usually you start your machine, home all axis, then touch off on your alu block and THEN run the Gcode
12:08 PM Wolf__: probe or edge finder = touch off
12:08 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: there you can use the XHC
12:08 PM monkeyisl: why i home axis ? LOL
12:08 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: or a sidepanel button
12:09 PM Wolf__: home is so the software knows where the end of the machine travel is
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: there is a Mashine Zero G53 and 9 Workpicezeros G54....
12:09 PM Loetmichel: so the machine "knows where it is" and can actually USE software endstops and tell you when a move you intend would result in a crash int the ends of the axis
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: also the mashine positions for the next day to the G53
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: all Workpicecoordinates are stored on mashine off
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: so if somthing fails you move on Switch position exact to old workpice
12:11 PM monkeyisl: homing is to just set to limit? because it won't be accurate.
12:11 PM Wolf__: IchGucksLive: thx for that comment yesterday about the cherry DB, I now have 20 of them ordered…
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: i got 4 plasmas that move intirer on xhc no need to see the pc
12:11 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: i have had many times that i stopped the machine mid work at the company, wrote the gcode line in the swarf on the bed. came to work next day, started the machine up, rehomed and continued where i left the day before
12:11 PM Wolf__: *DB3
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: NP
12:12 PM monkeyisl: Loetmichel : what about in cnc? lol
12:12 PM monkeyisl: could i expect such?
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: did you see my toolchange toutchoff video
12:12 PM Loetmichel: i dont understand a single word you are saying. please rephrase that into a whole sentence.
12:13 PM monkeyisl: if homing to set limit, i think that's useless , i can see with my eyes.
12:13 PM monkeyisl: IchGucksLive : some probe +, - stuff?
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: but the Gcode needs to be inside mashine
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: take a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M2yqr3lKfo
12:15 PM monkeyisl: IchGucksLive ; right i've seen kinda thing 123121124 times on the internet.
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: you are a beginner if you ask on G53/G54 knolige
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: as this is epic
12:16 PM Loetmichel: monkeyisl: in case you meant: "is that precise enough?" i can only say that you dont see even the slightest ridge or edge when i stop the machine for the night and continue next day. In Aluminium
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: we build mashines that can destroy themself on power move
12:16 PM Wolf__: if homing was super accurate for cheap, the high end high tolerance VMCs wouldn’t use $$$$$$$ probe systems before running batch work
12:16 PM monkeyisl: i'm talking aobut homing to save myself from aids.
12:16 PM Loetmichel: and thats with simple microswitches on a CNC 604, not the pinacle of precision...
12:17 PM Loetmichel: ah so we are just feeding a troll. good to know.
12:17 PM monkeyisl: Loetmichel : that sounds i can make use of homing.!
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: you will soon feel the effects if your gcode will get you gray hair on not beeing inside
12:18 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: useless.
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: monkeyisl: as we all do benefit from this switches
12:19 PM monkeyisl: IchGucksLive : i'm not taling about if it's useful or not, i'm talking about you're out of point on my Question.
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: as always
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: <- im the one how wars never in Q
12:20 PM monkeyisl: thahk you for your input always as usual.
12:20 PM Wolf__: homing accuracy is only going to be as good as the mechanical setup and repeatability of the switches
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: Wolf__: you will be impressed on cherry
12:21 PM Wolf__: I hope so =) for the price especially
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: you dident took the rolerones i hope
12:22 PM Wolf__: https://www.ebay.com/itm/311596096835 cost me 12 euro for them lol
12:23 PM Loetmichel: Wolf__: thats what i meant with my impression that a cheap chinese CNC 6040 with even cheaper microswitches as homing switches will continue a part without ANY visible indication that it had a 12 hours break in between.
12:23 PM Loetmichel: the first time i was totally surprised about that
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: on pcb 15deg you will not see somthing
12:25 PM monkeyisl: Wolf__ : i don't think they have used REAL expensive, they have used what really works at cheap and ripoff.
12:25 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14688&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- neither the machine nor the switches are especially "high quality" ;)
12:25 PM Loetmichel: ( the switches are the little black rectangles on the side and on the z axis)
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: and its getting bettr and better on low cost
12:26 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: you neither see something when hacking trhu am 8mm plate 0,15mm at a time and stop that half way thru
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: i only drill 28mm holes
12:27 PM Loetmichel: like in the remote control vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY
12:28 PM Wolf__: my stupid cheap cnc diode laser table has good repeatability with dirt cheap snap switches
12:32 PM jelly-home is now known as jelly
12:33 PM roycroft: ebay.co.uk have several hydraulic adapters that would work for me
12:33 PM roycroft: i'm going to try to source something from the us, though, so i don't have to wait weeks to get the parts
12:34 PM Wolf__: what are you looking for/
12:34 PM roycroft: that thread size appears to be a fairly standard hydraulic fitting size
12:34 PM roycroft: my spindle coolant connectors are m8-1.0 female
12:35 PM roycroft: so i need m8-1.0 male to hose barb
12:35 PM Wolf__: lol, hydraulic stuff is almost srandard…
12:35 PM roycroft: which i can't find at all
12:35 PM roycroft: but i do find m8-1.0 to 1/8" bsp male, and 1/8" bsp femail to various hose barb sizes
12:35 PM roycroft: s/standard/common/
12:39 PM monkeyisl: archivist : what encoder edge will be, meant signal or some hw endstop type?
12:40 PM archivist: monkeyisl, on an encoder system linuxcnc can use the index pulse
12:40 PM Wolf__: I think he was talking about glass or mag strip linear, or servo type encoder
12:40 PM archivist: still uses a switch to find the basic position but then moves to the encoder index
12:41 PM roycroft: there's a hydraulic shop near me that have a pretty large line card, but not much metric stuff
12:41 PM roycroft: i'll check with them early next week to see if they might have what i need
12:41 PM monkeyisl: archivist : ahh mine is open loop.
12:42 PM archivist: monkeyisl, you can add encoders even to a stepper system
12:43 PM archivist: or even use absolute encoders so you know exactly where it is, no need for homing then
12:43 PM monkeyisl: right but should i? for what open loop is still fine. it doens't fail at normal condition. but homing accuracy is still problem to me.
12:44 PM archivist: microswitches work for may users
12:44 PM archivist: many
12:44 PM monkeyisl: archivist : once i homed, i will just trust where i am even if i'm open loop.
12:45 PM archivist: usually homing is not an issue because you will touch off on the work
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
12:45 PM monkeyisl: archivist : yup microsiwtch will be most accuarte.
12:46 PM monkeyisl: archivist : if i have ATC, or something point to check tools.
12:46 PM monkeyisl: or i have some mounts @ platform.
12:46 PM monkeyisl: i have to home to move there.
12:47 PM monkeyisl: anyway .. microswitch will be just fine for above case.
12:47 PM monkeyisl: but i'm looking for if there is any advanced way to do it
12:48 PM archivist: encoder index is the advanced method
12:48 PM monkeyisl: well that's not about home accuracy
12:48 PM monkeyisl: my motor doesn't stall.
12:49 PM archivist: yes it is when you home to index
12:50 PM monkeyisl: i just trust my step driver and motor
12:50 PM monkeyisl: i can exchange all axis to servo motors too. but that doens't fix my homing accuaracy yet.
12:56 PM monkeyisl: 6i25 board's P2 IO is the fastest way to check gpio logic change?
12:57 PM monkeyisl: pcw_home you there?
12:59 PM archivist: monkeyisl, I think you are over thinking the "speed" inputs are read every ms
01:02 PM monkeyisl: archivist that's kinda one of, but u know i've expereinced this on MCU, i generate steps, and polling GPIO change, and compare steps, it was a few hundreds. but.. yea lcnc is on superfast clockspeed. so.. i don't konw , but when i have a lot of io pollings. still could be a problem? who knows? ..
01:03 PM archivist: each loop all inputs are read
01:04 PM monkeyisl: yes, i generate steps and stops when there is gpio change,do it 10 times and comapre
01:04 PM archivist: and any counters in the fpga are read/updated etc all in the one period
01:04 PM monkeyisl: archivist : are you sure? ... DB25 dones't have enough pins
01:04 PM archivist: read fpga, do stuff, write results
01:05 PM monkeyisl: read fpga but , fpga to 7i76 gpio,
01:05 PM archivist: it is a series of messages
01:05 PM monkeyisl: uart?
01:05 PM archivist: no
01:05 PM monkeyisl: or one wire?
01:05 PM monkeyisl: ahh
01:06 PM archivist: depends which interface you have
01:06 PM monkeyisl: ok it's kinda 1 wire with period reading?
01:06 PM pcw_home: with 5i25/7I76 all I/O is updated at the servo thread rate
01:06 PM monkeyisl: every us it repesent each pins' state or somethign like this?
01:06 PM archivist: not 1 wire
01:06 PM archivist: he is not getting the update per servo period :)
01:07 PM pcw_home: Yes all I/O is updated at the servo thread rate
01:08 PM pcw_home: so for home switches etc there is minimal delay so positional accuracy is good at slow (homing) speeds
01:08 PM monkeyisl: yup so i'll do it very very show.
01:08 PM monkeyisl: hit once and retrait a few mm back and change feedrate, and do it very slow.
01:10 PM archivist: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini-homing.html
01:10 PM pcw_home: so at 10mm/sec thats only 10 microns of home offset uncertainly
01:10 PM archivist: read that a few times :)
01:10 PM pcw_home: not a big deal
01:10 PM monkeyisl: archivist : microstepping frequency is still very high
01:10 PM archivist: forget microstepping here
01:11 PM monkeyisl: right k.
01:11 PM pcw_home: much better that typical switch accuracy so not really an issue
01:12 PM pcw_home: if you want micron homing accuracy, use a encoder with index
01:12 PM jym: Whats kinda funny, is my laser uses a light beam and reflector for the auto focus
01:13 PM monkeyisl: i don't get it, you mean encoder motor for x y axis i'm on mill. ?
01:14 PM archivist: yes
01:14 PM stelios: hello guys can you plz tell me what is the name of this controller??
01:14 PM gloops: home latch and search velocity
01:14 PM jym: If my laser can use litch switch for focusing, I'm sure it can be used fomr homing/limit switch too
01:14 PM jym: light*
01:14 PM archivist: encoder on stepper is possible
01:14 PM stelios: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIm0QXCynVVYOKJEGfmbrOECWz-8uZ4gMGgHqRm6Uj7GGlH3PbPQ
01:15 PM archivist: stelios, that is a breakout board not a controller
01:15 PM gloops: stelios chinese mach 3 breakout board
01:15 PM gloops: 'mach 3' used loosely as a reference
01:15 PM archivist: it does work well with linuxcnc
01:15 PM gloops: (works better with linuxcnc)
01:16 PM archivist: many people sell it under more than one name
01:16 PM stelios: yea sorry breakout board. so it doesnt have a name? archivist i dont know if you remember we spoke 2 days ago you helped me to choose this board
01:17 PM archivist: I have 3 of those
01:18 PM stelios: i installed it and installed LCNC too but i have problem with LCNC . my computer freezes at random times . the mouse mooves but i cant click anything and keyboard doesn do anything
01:18 PM archivist: they put every word in the title https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-Interface-Adapter-For-Stepper-Motor-Driver-USB-Cable/192286272369
01:18 PM stelios: i can only force restart to fix it
01:19 PM archivist: stelios, use the latency test make sure the pc is ok
01:20 PM pcw_home: stelios: also does it only crash when running LinuxCNC?
01:20 PM pcw_home: that can happen with too fast of a base thread for the PC
01:20 PM stelios: i used the latency test i run it for 12+ hours. 11920ns
01:20 PM monkeyisl: ahhh....
01:21 PM stelios: wes this pc had windows xp be4 and had no problems
01:21 PM monkeyisl: i think i understand.
01:21 PM pcw_home: what is you base thread rate?
01:21 PM stelios: the freezes happens randomly not when i have the cnc program open
01:21 PM stelios: it freezes even on the desktop without doing anything
01:22 PM pcw_home: what PC hardware?
01:22 PM stelios: its old.. pentium 4 but with win xp had no problem
01:23 PM pcw_home: could still be a hardware issue with a 15 YO computer
01:24 PM stelios: i see... so i have no sollution to use LCNC? i liked it more tha mach3 that i use it for a year now
01:25 PM pcw_home: There are some video bugs with newer hardware that may need workarounds
01:25 PM pcw_home: but Pentium 4 vintage stuff should be stable so I would suspect hardware issues
01:26 PM stelios: :-(
01:26 PM archivist: does it have enough memory
01:26 PM stelios: 1gb
01:26 PM stelios: 80gb hdd
01:26 PM archivist: on board graphics can be a problem
01:27 PM stelios: yea the graphics is on board
01:27 PM stelios: but the freeze is very odd. the mouse moves but cant click anything
01:29 PM archivist: google for that error see if you can find a cause
01:29 PM monkeyisl: how could i add encoder on my step motor?....
01:30 PM stelios: yea i will try to find a solution tnx for the help again guys
01:30 PM monkeyisl: i've seen some, but it's specific to motor right?
01:36 PM gloops: anyone in uk need a cheap 600mm ballscrew?
01:36 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600mm-SFU1605-Ball-Screw-with-Ballnut-for-CNC/332329809478?
01:36 PM Tom_L: i could use a 500mm one but not in UK either
01:36 PM gloops: 26 notes - next day delivery
01:37 PM Tom_L: what happens if you take the ballnut off the screw?
01:37 PM Tom_L: do all the balls fall out?
01:37 PM gloops: you dont want to know lol
01:38 PM Tom_L: well, i was gonna cut one screw and turn the end but didn't know if i could take the nut off it
01:38 PM Tom_L: i'll tape it up real good and leave it on
01:38 PM jym: Tom_L: There is a "tube" on the ballnut.
01:38 PM Tom_L: jym what do you mean?
01:38 PM Tom_L: for shipping?
01:38 PM jym: Tom_L: If you remove that tube, you can unload/reload the 60-80 balls in the ballnut.
01:39 PM jym: No
01:39 PM jym: http://www.barnesballscrew.com/images/1.jpg
01:39 PM MarcelineVQ: the recurculation tube?
01:40 PM jym: Tom_L: If you are going to muck with the balls, make sure you have a giant SUPER FLUFFY towel under it all. those lil suckers LOVE to bonuce
01:40 PM Tom_L: i think it best to move it to the opposite end and tape it good when i cut the other end
01:41 PM Tom_L: i have a local source for ball bearings
01:41 PM Tom_L: but i don't think i'll remove it
01:42 PM gloops: the old sturmey archer bicycle back wheel was the same, every curious mind who tried to remove the hub - dozens of balls fell out and bounced everywhere - 2 different sizes
01:42 PM gloops: most went back together with several balls missing
01:43 PM Tom_L: how come none of the ballscrew images you see show the return tubes?
01:43 PM Tom_L: just like the one gloops posted
01:47 PM Tom_L: http://www.barnesballscrew.com/images/2b-internal-return-3d.jpg
01:47 PM Tom_L: i see now
01:47 PM Tom_L: probably even less fun to reload those
01:52 PM gloops: theres none of that with chinese c7 screws, grease to stick the balls in - like the old bike wheels, or anything with loose ball bearings
01:52 PM gloops: theres 3 plastic bungs on mine i dont know tbh if they are supposed to be for reloading
02:04 PM monkeyisl: pcw_home , archivist : mine does 0.00008 mm per step.. LOL.
02:06 PM monkeyisl: i have like 100steps to 8us.. i probabaly ok with current setup to get 0.001 accuarcy... am i right??.
02:06 PM monkeyisl: i heard servo motor PID setting is aids..
02:06 PM pcw_home: right but the accuracy will be ~100 times worse
02:07 PM pcw_home: limit switch repeatability will likely dominate
02:08 PM pcw_home: maybe .01/.02 mm for a decent switch ( when the phase of the moon is right )
02:08 PM monkeyisl: pcw_home : could i do some special homing procedure? like stop all, step x, check x endstop and step more and check
02:09 PM pcw_home: better to touch off against your work
02:09 PM pcw_home: ( as that takes thermal expansion of you machine into account )
02:12 PM monkeyisl: i could do this routine at linuxcnc anyway right?.. i just wanna try ...
02:13 PM gloops: linuxcnc is in g54 by default? just move to position you want, enter home value, that is treated as absolute offset from whatever position global home *should* be
02:13 PM Tom_L: yes
02:13 PM gloops: then touch off, cant go wrong
02:14 PM Tom_L: you can call it if you're not sure
02:14 PM Tom_L: it's good to include all the preamble code anyway
02:15 PM gloops: yes
02:15 PM monkeyisl: that's probabaly coodinate move.
02:37 PM miss0r: I'm here making a gimmic present for a friend of mines 30 year birthday tomorrow. Who would have thought a hammer head would be SO TOUGH to drill in. This is just one of thoes cheap hammers from the local el-cheapo store. My HSS drills would not evne touch it. I had to go with a carbide drill to make headway :S
02:41 PM gloops: not a used hammer then?
02:42 PM miss0r: nope. a 7$ hammer. brand spanking new
02:43 PM jym: miss0r: You should have gotten a hammer head SHARK and a drill for his bday =)
02:44 PM miss0r: I know this joke is pretty exhausted. But I like the idea of giving him a chainsaw and a drillhammer is a good one: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171124_214139-GBmGGON7.jpg
02:44 PM gloops: some old tools can be very hard due to the metal undergoing work hardening
02:44 PM miss0r: gloops: Indeed. that would account for the hardness. But this is straight out'a the box
02:46 PM miss0r: I wonder if the forged head 'din 6475' specifies anything about hardness
02:47 PM gloops: c45 steel
02:47 PM gloops: leadscrew steel
02:48 PM miss0r: Hmm.. Hardened to shit apparently
02:50 PM gloops: quenched, brittle - never hit two hammers together as the teachers told us
02:50 PM miss0r: thats the truth
02:55 PM miss0r: Thats it for tonight. See you around
03:12 PM monkeyisl: pcw_home : you know any optical switch for real machine that can do 0.00x mm level? i tried google .. i see all 3dprinter home trashes.
03:14 PM monkeyisl: https://www.metrol.co.jp/en/products/tool-sette_td1/ lol japan
03:15 PM monkeyisl: ts27R clone?
03:37 PM Deejay: gn8
03:40 PM gloops: nice - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Drummond-Round-Bed-Treadle-Metal-Lathe/182920751297?
03:40 PM gloops: i wonder what that has done in its lifetime - probably very little i guess
03:46 PM pcw_home: monkeyisl: not that I know of for a direct limit switch though a normal limit switch + a ball screw mounted flag/opto would get you close
03:51 PM andypugh: That Drummond is really cute, but I don’t need another lathe lying around the house as a bizarre sort of ornament.
03:51 PM andypugh: gloops: Have I shown you what lives next to my TV?
03:54 PM gloops: andypugh no dont think so
03:54 PM andypugh: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/33625-catastrophic-failure#102295
03:54 PM andypugh: No, wait
03:54 PM andypugh: Sorry
03:54 PM andypugh: Copied something else in the meantime
03:54 PM gloops: ok, didnt click lol
03:54 PM andypugh: I meant this https://photos.app.goo.gl/ByfysnPQspXcyzSG3
03:54 PM andypugh: The first link is blameless enough, it’s the LinuxCNC forum
03:55 PM gloops: charming, dont recognise the lathe though
03:55 PM andypugh: Really?
03:56 PM andypugh: http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html
03:57 PM gloops: yes, didnt ring a bell, looking at the feet - unusual
03:58 PM gloops: lots of distinct features - i should know haha
04:03 PM andypugh: Mine is one of the less-shiny examples.
04:06 PM monkeyisl: i found 0.002+- https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/omron-automation-and-safety/EE-SX870A/Z7937-ND/368651
04:19 PM gloops: a well preserved machine might attain real antique value some day, all the other old machines will have been converted to cnc - or junked in some shed, they sometimes go for so little people dont care how they treat them, most were better off remaining undiscovered
04:23 PM andypugh: There are folk on the Holbrook list who are shocked and dismayed that I converted a Holbrook Minor to CNC.
04:24 PM andypugh: Now, the minor is quite a pretty lathe, but I don’t think my conversion has harmed the aesthetics. I was quite careful about that.
04:24 PM monkeyisl: time to sleep g'nite!
04:25 PM monkeyisl: i ordered 2 i'll see and report
04:26 PM gloops: yes bed for me too
06:38 PM XXCoder: warning: scary. https://youtu.be/QJ8ls5oN3ps
06:40 PM MarcelineVQ: impressive creatures aren't they
06:40 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:41 PM XXCoder: is the hum that loud?
06:41 PM MarcelineVQ: much louder
06:41 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:41 PM XXCoder: woodgears guy had wasp problem couple times. what he did was make vacuum system
06:42 PM XXCoder: nest is evenually empty and he destroy it
06:42 PM MarcelineVQ: I just spray them at night when they're sleeping
06:42 PM MarcelineVQ: for a nest like this that's not going to cut it ehe
06:42 PM XXCoder: theres no limit on tank size
06:43 PM MarcelineVQ: my method I meant
06:43 PM pfred1: you should see a roof vacuum
06:43 PM pfred1: to vacuum the stones off a roof
06:43 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk52XA4rFpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM4Nku2qAiI
06:45 PM XXCoder: oh lol ok
06:47 PM pfred1: here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-tv2DW6m8Q
06:47 PM XXCoder: why is there that many rocks on roof
06:47 PM pfred1: suck them bees right up
06:48 PM pfred1: XXCoder stops the sun from tearing up the membrane
06:48 PM XXCoder: ballast apparently interesting
06:49 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:49 PM pfred1: stuff sitting out in the sun tends ot take a beating but rocks can deal with sunlight prety good
06:49 PM pfred1: and rocks tend to be cheap
06:50 PM pfred1: but before you do a roof you have to take the stones off of it so you hire a sucker truck
06:51 PM XXCoder: i wonder if they wash the rocks
06:51 PM XXCoder: bird shit and all that
06:51 PM pfred1: the vacuum they're using is on the back of a truck
06:51 PM pfred1: I don't know what they do with the crap they suck off a roof they probably just sell it to someone else
06:53 PM pfred1: I've seen dead birds on roofs
06:53 PM pfred1: we roofed a place that made pet food and it really atracted animals
06:54 PM pfred1: let me tell you the bouquet that comes off roasting hampster food is rather heady
06:55 PM XXCoder: lol ok
06:56 PM pfred1: we had an extension cord come unplugged in a room where they were processing hampster food and only one guy was able to get throug hthat stench
06:56 PM pfred1: it wasn't me either
06:57 PM pfred1: there was this big fat guy running that machine and he hate his lunch right there
06:57 PM pfred1: ate his lunch didn'r look like he was hating it at all
06:57 PM pfred1: I guess you get used to anything
07:01 PM gregcnc: this guy is printing a mini Kuka https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb5Aw71HPu8/
07:07 PM XXCoder: robot arm eh
07:17 PM * SpeedEvil wonders if he was actually sneaking hampster food.
07:19 PM pfred1: not that i saw
07:19 PM pfred1: he sat at the raw end
07:19 PM pfred1: before they got toasted
07:20 PM pfred1: he watched the arm that spread the pellets onto the wire belt that went through the broiler
07:20 PM XXCoder: 2 hours ago last video
07:20 PM pfred1: I never actually saw him do anything besides eating lunch he just sat there and watched those little breen balls hit the belt
07:21 PM pfred1: little green balls even
07:21 PM pfred1: I guess if somehting happened he'd have to spring into action?
07:22 PM XXCoder: sometimes job is just being there and be aware of whats going on
07:27 PM andypugh: pfred1: Yes, if he were to delay even an hour or less in springing in to action literally several dollars worth of production would be lost.
07:28 PM pfred1: they were banging out the hampster food let me tell you
07:28 PM pfred1: the arm went side to side over that belt dropping them pellets
07:29 PM XXCoder: lol thisoldtony is funny. "the metric system, since 1795, trusted by 15/16"
07:30 PM andypugh: There was a question in New Scientist magazine several years ago about switching to Hamster wheels as a source of energy. The first paragraph here has one of my faourite phrases ever from that magazine:
07:30 PM andypugh: There was a question in New Scientist magazine several years ago about switching to Hamster wheels as a source of energy. The first paragraph here has one of my faourite phrases ever from that magazine:
07:30 PM XXCoder: ohh andybot glitched ;)
07:31 PM andypugh: There was a question in New Scientist magazine several years ago about switching to Hamster wheels as a source of energy. The first paragraph here has one of my faourite phrases ever from that magazine: https://tinyurl.com/y87xzzrp
07:31 PM Tom_L: 3rd time is a charm
07:32 PM XXCoder: "do bears get lonely"
07:32 PM pfred1: go hamster! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHOIYsfBTs
07:32 PM Tom_L: hello jtmobile
07:33 PM JT-Mobile: hi tom
07:33 PM XXCoder: yo
07:33 PM JT-Mobile: finally figured out where I hid hexchat on this laptop lol
07:33 PM pfred1: find / -name hexchat
07:34 PM Tom_L: anyone have experience with rattmmotor on ebay?
07:35 PM JT-Mobile: I was trying to run the linux thing on this but is broken then remembered I had installed hexchat on the windows part
07:36 PM JT-Mobile: I've not used ebay for a long time
07:38 PM pfred1: ebay is dead to me
07:38 PM XXCoder: why
07:38 PM Tom_L: is amazon that much better?
07:38 PM pfred1: well for starters it is all paypal now
07:38 PM pfred1: at least amazon still takes visa
07:39 PM XXCoder: amazon has fill time workers thats okay on pay
07:39 PM XXCoder: and almost-slaves for temps
07:40 PM pfred1: if I'm going to deal with sketchy sellers I just hit up aliexpress
07:40 PM JT-Mobile: lol
07:40 PM Tom_L: i don't really wanna wait a month for parts
07:41 PM XXCoder: china stuff will evenually rise on cost
07:41 PM XXCoder: china goverment is starting to crack down hard on high pollutators
07:42 PM pfred1: Tom_L patience is a virtue
07:42 PM Tom_L: i presume square linear rails are better than round?
07:42 PM Tom_L: pfred1 i have a life expectancy
07:43 PM pfred1: unsupported round rail is a lot more flexible than one might think
07:44 PM pfred1: I've seen people use it, and I've seen people have a lot of bending issues with it at times too
07:48 PM Vitran: Good news! I got new servos today!
07:49 PM Vitran: Bad news, I am now finding out how hard it is to get timing belts
07:49 PM Tom_L: yeah i ended up looking at XL
07:50 PM Tom_L: sdp-si carries a larger selection than mcmaster
07:51 PM Tom_L: depends on your locale though
07:54 PM andypugh: Vitran: Where are you?
07:54 PM JT-Mobile: Tom_L, hows the mill coming along?
07:55 PM Tom_L: looking to order rails atm
07:55 PM Tom_L: was gone for a week
07:55 PM Vitran: I am in Ontario
07:56 PM Tom_L: oh, you're screwed
07:56 PM JT-Mobile: lol
07:56 PM Tom_L: acording to another canadian friend
07:56 PM Vitran: Also, the setup has a maximum belt height of 1"
07:56 PM Vitran: It is a Hardinge Superslant, just like Rob
07:56 PM andypugh: I have at least 3 mail order suppliers who can do next-day. But none are in Ontario
07:57 PM Vitran: Ah, well time isn't an issue
07:57 PM andypugh: Ask the Canadian Servo COmpany where they recommend?
07:57 PM Vitran: We have ultra-critical level projects going on for the next few weeks
07:57 PM andypugh: (DMM Servos are in Richmond BC)
07:57 PM Vitran: As in, I have been doing 14h days for the last week, and this weekend
07:58 PM Vitran: I know who to talk to though. There is a place called Applied Industrial Technologies near me that will have them
07:58 PM Vitran: The old Hardinge had a weird belt. It was 1" tall, 5mm spacing of domed teeth
07:59 PM JT-Mobile: hardinge chnc?
07:59 PM Vitran: hardinge superslant
08:00 PM Vitran: Wait, uh, what is chnc?
08:00 PM JT-Mobile: my chnc uses the same belts IIRC for the servo to ball screw
08:00 PM JT-Mobile: a chucker
08:00 PM JT-Mobile: with front tools
08:00 PM Vitran: no, it is a superslant. 3 axis with a turret and tailstock
08:00 PM JT-Mobile: http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
08:01 PM JT-Mobile: 3rd axis is a cut off?
08:01 PM Tom_L: ali is higher for the same thing on ebay
08:01 PM Vitran: 3rd axis moves a tailstock
08:01 PM JT-Mobile: ah ok that makes more sense
08:01 PM JT-Mobile: I wish I had a tailstock on the chnc
08:01 PM Tom_L: amazon just laughed at me
08:02 PM Vitran: http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/used-cnc-lathes/Twin-turrets-on-Hardinge.jpg
08:02 PM JT-Mobile: Tom_L, did they call you names too?
08:03 PM Tom_L: heh
08:03 PM JT-Mobile: Vitran, yea the superslant is much bigger than the chnc
08:03 PM Tom_L: JT-Mobile, how much pulley is absolutely necessary on a shaft before wobble sets in?
08:03 PM Vitran: I've been doing a lot of back and forth with Rob_h. He has rebuilt 3 of the same machines
08:04 PM Tom_L: acording to the numbers, the pulley will be just over halfway on at 1" wide
08:04 PM Tom_L: so more than .500 on the shaft
08:04 PM Tom_L: otherwise i gotta go with a plastic pulley
08:04 PM Tom_L: and a camlock
08:05 PM JT-Mobile: yea Rob helped me a lot
08:05 PM JT-Mobile: Tom_L, not sure what your asking
08:05 PM Tom_L: the shaft comes short on the pulley ID
08:05 PM Tom_L: the pulley is 1" wide at the hub
08:05 PM Tom_L: it covers just over .500"
08:06 PM Tom_L: otherwise i'll have to get a hubless pulley and camlock
08:06 PM Tom_L: (plastic)
08:06 PM Tom_L: which i don't really want
08:07 PM Tom_L: the shaft is 15mm long which is just over half inch
08:07 PM Tom_L: the pulley hub is 1"
08:07 PM Tom_L: setscrew on the side
08:07 PM JT-Mobile: ah I understand now
08:07 PM JT-Mobile: two setscrews at 90 degrees?
08:08 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure
08:08 PM Tom_L: probably
08:08 PM Tom_L: or i can add one
08:09 PM Tom_itx: http://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/product/?id=A%206A%203-60NF03712
08:09 PM JT-Mobile: might be ok if the set screws are on the right side :)
08:09 PM Tom_L: shows a single setscrew
08:10 PM JT-Mobile: strongest connection is two at 90 degrees so they work together
08:10 PM Tom_L: either way i gotta bore it out
08:10 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:10 PM JT-Mobile: worst is two at 180 degrees
08:11 PM Tom_L: no, their cad model has 2 at 90 apart
08:12 PM JT-Mobile: that's good, is the shaft hard?
08:12 PM Tom_L: ballscrew
08:16 PM XXCoder: primitive tech he started over at new location. wonder why
08:16 PM XXCoder: same time he managed iron age las toime so probably why
08:26 PM XXCoder: dang
08:26 PM Tom_itx: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spindle-with-synchronous-belt-for-CNC-milling-BT30-petal-clamp-disc-spring-drawb/322620546006?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49476%26meid%3D639d32ed8534480b9bd743c7bcd016cf%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112628775095&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219
08:26 PM Tom_L: gettin into some bigger spindles
08:27 PM XXCoder: he bought a 500k lot in order to have new land to practice at.
08:27 PM XXCoder: 12 arces
08:27 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: for tapping and such?
08:27 PM Tom_L: for atc and larger collets
08:27 PM XXCoder: I guess it locks spindle with z servo or stepper so motion down rotates it right way and move upwards spin backwards?
08:27 PM JT-Mobile: nice spindle
08:27 PM Tom_L: pull stud etc in it
08:28 PM Tom_L: he's got more on that page
08:28 PM XXCoder: im talking about "synchronous belt "
08:28 PM Tom_L: for drive motor
08:28 PM Tom_L: it's just the spindle
08:29 PM XXCoder: oh interesting
08:29 PM Tom_L: that's how the big ones are
08:30 PM Tom_L: 3 different bearings offered
08:30 PM gregcnc: there should be a mcmaster next to every walgreens and open 24-7
08:30 PM XXCoder: lol
08:31 PM Tom_itx: https://www.ebay.com/itm/9KW-Air-cooled-ATC-Spindle-Motor-220V-BT30-ISO30-Replace-HSD-CNC-Engraving/201565280395?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49476%26meid%3D2673497a6e65438797ae0358a3c84699%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D322620546006&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109
08:31 PM Tom_L: there's the whole package
08:31 PM Tom_L: different spindle
08:32 PM Tom_L: and air cooled
08:32 PM XXCoder: fancy
08:32 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what size BT-30 goes up to though
08:32 PM andypugh: Cheaper: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spindle-Unit-MT3-BT30-Power-Head-3000-8000rpm-750W-Asynchronous-Motor-CNC-Kit/192109395447?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49477%26meid%3D7ea8629ba40b4b6a90ccf37d683ea4bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D201565280395&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219
08:33 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:33 PM andypugh: Tom_L: I don’t understand the question
08:33 PM Tom_L: on the pulley?
08:33 PM andypugh: I put a 100mm face-mill in my BT30 spindle.
08:34 PM Tom_L: as far as how large a hole in the collets
08:34 PM andypugh: Depends on the collet
08:34 PM Tom_L: i'm sure it's in the 'industrial' range
08:34 PM XXCoder: that depends on collet
08:34 PM andypugh: BT30 is a tool interface.
08:34 PM XXCoder: since you can have smaller adoptions to er12 up to er48 or something
08:34 PM Tom_L: there's bound to be a max hole size for the collet
08:34 PM Tom_L: that fits the BT-30
08:35 PM Tom_L: bt30 is the taper but the tooling that supports it...
08:35 PM JT-Mobile: andypugh, link is similar to the 308 spindle
08:35 PM gregcnc: I think ER32 is the largest
08:35 PM Tom_L: not a bad price on that one either
08:35 PM gregcnc: in BT30
08:36 PM Tom_L: decent rpm range
08:36 PM gregcnc: If it's not a 2000kg machine I wouldnt' worry about how big you can go for tooling
08:37 PM Tom_L: go big or go home :D
08:37 PM Tom_L: i just noticed those while brousing
08:37 PM andypugh: You can get ER40 for BT30. http://www.ymttooling.co.uk/bt30/1951-zurn-bt30-er40-70mm-er-style-collet-chuck.html
08:37 PM andypugh: ER40 will hold a 30mm end-mill.
08:38 PM Tom_L: certainly better than hose clamping a dremel to Z
08:38 PM andypugh: And then you go to shell mills and face-mills.
08:38 PM Tom_L: right
08:39 PM Tom_L: we were using 6" shell mills on the 50 taper cnc
08:39 PM Tom_L: maybe 4" or possibly 5 on 40 taper
08:40 PM Tom_L: been too long to remember..
08:40 PM andypugh: I use a 100mm one on my BT30 machine
08:40 PM Tom_L: ~4"
08:40 PM pfred1: I ran a K&T #3 once
08:40 PM pfred1: it was a pretty big mill
08:41 PM andypugh: Tom_L: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8O0jc0vz21NxQyC43
08:41 PM Tom_L: i notice the collet drive is opposite on those 2 spindles
08:42 PM andypugh: Eh?
08:42 PM Tom_L: well between you and skunkworks you go above and beyond...
08:42 PM Tom_L: andypugh, the first spindle i linked and the one you linked
08:42 PM Tom_L: the drive cogs are opposite
08:42 PM Tom_L: one male other female
08:42 PM andypugh: I am not sure what you mean by “collet drive”
08:42 PM XXCoder: which is heavier, 200 pounds of bricks or 200 pounds of feathers?
08:43 PM pfred1: 200 pounds of bricks
08:43 PM JT-Mobile: bricks are denser
08:43 PM Tom_L: andypugh, where the collet fits up in the spindle
08:43 PM pfred1: you'll know when they hit you
08:43 PM Tom_L: at least i'm calling it a collet
08:43 PM gregcnc: drive tangs?
08:43 PM Tom_L: collet holder
08:43 PM Tom_L: maybe
08:43 PM Tom_L: yes
08:43 PM MarcelineVQ: XXCoder: nono it's faythers
08:43 PM Tom_L: the drive tangs are opposite
08:44 PM andypugh: The one you linked does not have drive tangs.
08:44 PM gregcnc: router spindle don't have them
08:44 PM Tom_L: the collet holder would have them then
08:44 PM pfred1: I never liked Tang
08:44 PM XXCoder: nah its feathers. 200 pounds of bricks is just bricks. you'd have to also carry what you did to those poor birds in your heart while carrying 200 pounds of feathers.
08:44 PM gregcnc: I have a few router holders in 30 taper and they don't have slots for drive tangs
08:45 PM andypugh: You need them with a 100mm face mill :-)
08:45 PM Tom_L: haha
08:45 PM Tom_L: i'm sure of that
08:45 PM pfred1: XXCoder there's a chicken plant up around the corner and there's probably 200 pounds of feathers on the road in front of it
08:45 PM andypugh: But a 12,000 rpm air cooled won’t have the torque
08:45 PM XXCoder: lol ok
08:45 PM XXCoder: with THOSE feathers its equal lol
08:46 PM andypugh: My spindle goes down to 45 rpm on the lowest gear. That has a lot of grunt.
08:46 PM Tom_L: you can do real damage slowly with that
08:46 PM XXCoder: andypugh: dang
08:46 PM XXCoder: lowest I ever tried was 1 rpm on one of machines. worked fine. lol
08:46 PM pfred1: I think the slowest my mill goes is 120 RPM?
08:46 PM XXCoder: couldnt stop it either
08:48 PM andypugh: XXCoder: I think I have shown you the video of my mill spindle winding coil springs?
08:48 PM XXCoder: possibly can you link? lol
08:48 PM andypugh: On the lowest gear, with the VFD I can go down about 5rpm
08:49 PM andypugh: XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thtDRjgbxRE
08:49 PM XXCoder: with rpm set to 1 you could make clock out of your cnc machine lol
08:49 PM XXCoder: just need 1/60 gear for hour
08:50 PM XXCoder: nice
08:50 PM gregcnc: that's a big spring
08:50 PM XXCoder: dont spring require very specific metal alloys?
08:50 PM gregcnc: I made springs from .008" wire once
08:51 PM Tom_L: andypugh, was that a seat spring for the neracar?
08:51 PM andypugh: Indeed, that is a Ner-a-Car seat spring
08:51 PM JT-Mobile: I made some springs with 0.010" music wire for a high standard 22
08:52 PM andypugh: My seat spring was made from special spring wire. And the reason that the coil is sat on top of the mandrel is that there as no way that I could fight it by hand to be anywhere else.
08:53 PM XXCoder: nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZT0ZTvRFxI
08:53 PM JT-Mobile: following roller on the Y axis
08:54 PM JT-Mobile: ?
08:58 PM Tom_L: looks like it
08:58 PM XXCoder: interesting
09:02 PM andypugh: JT-Mobile: Yes, G33 move
09:02 PM JT-Mobile: cool
09:03 PM andypugh: Right. sleep time
09:03 PM Tom_L: later
09:04 PM JT-Mobile: night
09:04 PM pfred1: time to hit it here too.
09:04 PM Tom_itx: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nema42-12N-m-Servo-Motor-Closed-Loop-139mm-HSS2206-Driver-6A-220V-AC-CNC-Kit/112643626106?hash=item1a3a15547a:g:e9sAAOSwhpZaC7J7
09:04 PM Tom_L: bit pricey once you add shipping..
09:09 PM Tom_L: at least when i came back i brought warm weather with me..
09:10 PM Tom_L: the return night was ~24F for the low
09:10 PM Tom_L: i bet it was near the 70's today
09:12 PM JT-Mobile: 73f here
09:12 PM Tom_L: 75 was the high.. just checked
09:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/Tybee.jpg
09:13 PM XXCoder: one beer: "free range coastal water" and "chemical-free"
09:13 PM XXCoder: lol
09:13 PM Tom_L: nov 22
09:13 PM Tom_L: were a few swimmers, me not among them :)
09:14 PM XXCoder: https://i.imgur.com/EW8M8.jpg
09:23 PM XXCoder: this is coming if net neurality is killed https://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5a1471fa3dbef4a7748b711a-1400/screen%20shot%202017-11-21%20at%20103429.png
09:26 PM hazzy: Been playing with ball-bearing motors, has anybody here played with them?
09:26 PM hazzy: https://youtu.be/pX4Dl1zRIjI
09:27 PM XXCoder: yeah first heard of that years agi
09:27 PM XXCoder: pretty amazing
09:27 PM XXCoder: insane rpm
09:28 PM Tom_L: is the shaft color due to the heat?
09:28 PM Tom_L: or just a shadow
09:29 PM Tom_L: i think it's a shadow.. nevermind
09:30 PM hazzy: Tom_L: The shaft got pretty hot, but not hot enough to discolor
09:30 PM Tom_L: was there a point to the experiment?
09:31 PM hazzy: Yes, to have fun :D
09:31 PM XXCoder: new type of dc motor
09:31 PM XXCoder: and yes fun
09:32 PM hazzy: I made another with smaller bearings, it is not as cool, but runs much faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPKg9YbO8Hw&feature=youtu.be
09:33 PM hazzy: It seems that there is some debate about what makes them work
09:33 PM hazzy: some think it is thermal,others electromagnetic.
10:53 PM rene-dev: anyone keen to test this? https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/354
11:06 PM Tom_L: does 'I' default to 1?
11:15 PM rene-dev: Yes
11:15 PM rene-dev: So doesn't break any existing behavior
11:16 PM hazzy: I think that is a great idea Rene!
11:17 PM rene-dev: Thanks, but not my idea :D
11:17 PM hazzy: Still a good idea :D
11:17 PM rene-dev: How are you getting along with qt?
11:17 PM rene-dev: Saves time
11:17 PM rene-dev: Can be a lot of time
11:18 PM hazzy: I have not had much time to play with QT yet, had company for Thanksgiving
11:20 PM hazzy: I should have some time tomorrow
11:20 PM hazzy: gn8
11:22 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIoMKE6O7YE
11:22 PM XXCoder: looks like fun
11:43 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXWiq-lvkg lol
11:47 PM XXCoder: for lols he used lathe to make a bolt, then used mill to hex head it
11:47 PM XXCoder: then for second bolt he used mill to make bolt, then used lathe to make hex head