#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 16 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:40 AM IchGucksLive: good morning from germany
01:14 AM gloops_: where do you get shielded cable?
01:15 AM archivist: depends on size, Farnell or CPC or RS or cough Maplin
01:15 AM archivist: even fleabay
01:15 AM gloops_: ive looked on ebay cant see any, is there a proper name for it?
01:16 AM archivist: screened cable
01:16 AM gloops_: ok thanks
01:18 AM gloops_: it is just audio cable isnt it?
01:18 AM archivist: no
01:19 AM gloops_: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Single-Screened-Cable-Wire-for-Audio-per-Metre/121016545083?
01:19 AM archivist: depending on what you mean by audio
01:19 AM archivist: that is an audio type, dont think you want that
01:20 AM archivist: not expecting a cnc to ever need single core
01:20 AM gloops_: well for the motors - 4 wires, does each individual wire need to be shielded
01:21 AM archivist: no do it as a group
01:21 AM gloops_: so a shielded 4 core
01:21 AM archivist: yes
01:22 AM gloops_: then there are various single strands to the bob and vfd
01:22 AM gloops_: the drivers
01:23 AM gloops_: ive not had any problems with normal wire that i know of, just thought i ought to do the shielded when i change the electrics over
01:23 AM archivist: you can use the case/covers as your "screen" for some wires
01:24 AM gloops_: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grey-PVC-Cable-4-Core-x-7-34AWG-Screened/382279249980?
01:25 AM gloops_: well they all pack everything into a box, i didnt its set apart
01:25 AM archivist: check amp capacity for the cores
01:26 AM gloops_: yes will need 5 amp at least
01:26 AM archivist: also a common failure on cnc is breakage of cables where they bend
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: hi gloops_
01:27 AM gloops_: hi Ichs
01:27 AM archivist: so there is a minimum curve for flex depending on cable dial
01:28 AM gloops_: i might just lag normal wire ive got some copper tape
01:29 AM gloops_: if i can run 4 core to each motor not a big job
01:29 AM archivist: the sticky on that tape would be an insulator and not flex at all well
01:30 AM IchGucksLive: gloops_: mashine firt light
01:30 AM IchGucksLive: fires
01:30 AM IchGucksLive: first
01:31 AM gloops_: with copper lagging?
01:33 AM archivist: it it the sticky backed copper tape
01:33 AM archivist: is it
01:33 AM gloops_: ill look it up now i have a rough idea of what wire i need, if im buying some i want the right stuff first time
01:33 AM gloops_: yeah big roll of sticky back copper tape
01:34 AM archivist: that sticky means you are winding a coil not making a shield
01:35 AM gloops_: because each layer is insulated from the other
01:35 AM archivist: we learned the hard way about cable routing on a printer, we were getting 20-30 minutes to failure
01:35 AM MrHindsight: IchGucksLive: what age are your students?
01:37 AM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: depends UNI/FH 19+
01:38 AM IchGucksLive: professional school 14+
01:38 AM IchGucksLive: But most i teatch the teatchers
01:38 AM IchGucksLive: Most here become ofschool bevor CNC went to factories
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: that is WHY this big miss is all
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: Tatchers never worked on mashines
01:39 AM MrHindsight: makes sense
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: but they are constantly renewed now
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: as becoming AGE like me
01:40 AM MrHindsight: I think CNC here must be on the job training
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: so GOV decided to take people like ma that are well of job but deep inside WWW
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: this up to you to take over a school
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: go to the principal and tell him your advantige
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: BENEFIT yoiu got a whole mashine park
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: a big budget some schools got way beond 10k for a year
01:42 AM MrHindsight: public schools here don't do that
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: you might be impressed how they act on people coming to help
01:42 AM MrHindsight: the way it would work here is to setup a CNC school that gets loans for students to attend
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: 5G 4.0 is way beond school teachers
01:42 AM MrHindsight: more than half don't finish
01:43 AM MrHindsight: but you still get paid
01:43 AM IchGucksLive: here it is 80/20
01:43 AM gloops_: true, i other countries education is a business, its the same here now
01:43 AM IchGucksLive: UK is best up
01:43 AM gloops_: UK is not best up for UK kids
01:44 AM MrHindsight: devry.edu phoenix.edu etc
01:46 AM MrHindsight: Total tuition and expenses? (50 months): $56,840
01:47 AM Deejay: moin
01:48 AM MrHindsight: just under 50% is federal grants
01:48 AM MrHindsight: the rest you come up with
01:48 AM gloops_: this is no way to build a great nation
01:49 AM gloops_: educational should be a national concern, the kids are the future of the nation
01:49 AM MrHindsight: the rest can be from fedral loans
01:50 AM MrHindsight: Federal even
01:50 AM MrHindsight: gloops_: here you are just a resource
01:51 AM gloops_: kids should be raised fit and hard and bright, at 16 they should be keen like hounds in the slips, waiting to be unleashed
01:51 AM MrHindsight: nah
01:52 AM archivist: a bit expensive https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302529603025?ul_noapp=true
01:53 AM MrHindsight: gloops_: they even changed the bankruptcy laws here years ago...
01:53 AM MrHindsight: student loans can not be discharged
01:53 AM MrHindsight: nice for the banks
01:54 AM gloops_: i think if a student moves overseas here they dont have to pay the loan
01:54 AM MrHindsight: same for germany
01:54 AM gloops_: its all set up for the banks MrHindsight
01:54 AM MrHindsight: move from the US to germany and get a university degree for $0 tuition
01:57 AM MrHindsight: hmm children are the future
01:57 AM MrHindsight: they are the world ...
02:00 AM MrHindsight: hmm sounds familiar :) https://youtu.be/M9BNoNFKCBI?t=24s
02:00 AM MrHindsight: this was right about the time that all of this was starting to be dismantled here
02:14 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
03:04 AM Tom_L: morning
04:46 AM jthornton: morning
04:46 AM XXCoder: hey
04:49 AM jthornton: friday high 63F friday night low 60F saturday high 66F weird day
04:50 AM XXCoder: been 40-45f for while now
04:51 AM jthornton: 35F now
04:55 AM XXCoder: landlocked states is weird lol
08:40 AM gloops_: right, time for a couple of hours machine making
08:42 AM monkeyisl is now known as monkeyis2
08:43 AM * archivist hides all the angle grinders
08:44 AM gloops_: probably a bit more work on the gantry - lot of holes to tap
08:46 AM gloops_: have got a proper 6mm cordless tap for the linear rails im going to test, with hex shaft
08:46 AM gloops_: never tried tapping with cordless though, andypugh says he uses them all the time and he seems to know the job
08:47 AM archivist: use a machine tap
08:47 AM gloops_: not got any
08:48 AM archivist: what does the hex tap flutes look like
08:48 AM gloops_: not small ones anyway
08:48 AM gloops_: like a cordless magnetic tip holder
08:48 AM gloops_: for cordless drill
08:49 AM archivist: erm wrong answer, the flutes where the chips exit
08:52 AM gloops_: will let you know when i find it it appears to have been moved!
08:52 AM archivist: it heard battery drill and ran
08:52 AM SpeedEvil: Impact taps are a thing.
08:52 AM SpeedEvil: Meant for use with impact drivers
08:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi
08:54 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/CCrPl
08:54 AM monkeyis2: i just plugged pcie and tested jitter or etc..
08:54 AM monkeyis2: but no idea about the numbers..
08:55 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyis2: the 7i76e does not need itter setting
08:55 AM monkeyis2: lol K
08:55 AM IchGucksLive: it has its own 4mhz hart beat
08:56 AM archivist: how long have you run the test for, also do something nasty like view a video while test is running
08:56 AM IchGucksLive: the PC is quite good on this nmders also
08:56 AM IchGucksLive: mo this wooudt drive a parport mashine at 8m/min
08:57 AM gloops_: sht, well, yes i think they have the locking recess for fitting in impact driver, i didnt realise they are for an impact driver though, drill box full and drill bits been 2 foot away for weeks
08:57 AM monkeyis2: cool. .. what's this "I/O Control paorts/ boards" ?
08:58 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/vgJ9H
08:59 AM monkeyis2: and what's Actual Servo period?
08:59 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyis2: this is my advice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I00ArvYvZgI
09:00 AM IchGucksLive: Seervo is you keypress or MPG
09:00 AM IchGucksLive: 1ms
09:04 AM gregcnc: huh hex shank taps are indeed a thing, not all that surprising i guess
09:05 AM gregcnc: combo drill/taps with hex have been around for ages
09:05 AM gloops_: right, will come back to the taps when i find them, so theyre used in impact driver not cordless
09:06 AM gregcnc: impact rated means they are a bit tougher and won't snap
09:07 AM SpeedEvil: http://holemaker-technology.com/products/speedtap-impact-taps
09:07 AM gloops_: im a bit skeptical about them being strong enough but a lot of people think theyre ok
09:08 AM gloops_: shaft on mine arent like that
09:08 AM SpeedEvil: 10mm thick steel for the 10mm tap, for example, that's not really thin metal
09:09 AM archivist: I am imagining the hex crimp onto a hand tap :)
09:10 AM archivist: I see that impact one has straight flutes, hand tap style
09:10 AM gloops_: not these, its part of it, ill photo when they turn up, probably been put in garage
09:11 AM monkeyis2: i found someone http://www.cnctablebuild.com/mesa-setup-part-2-software/
09:11 AM gregcnc: http://www.suttontools.com/products/impact-taps-mc-tap-drill-set-m105/
09:12 AM archivist: hehe Not suitable for precision, safety or critical threads.
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: gloops_: first light ?
09:36 AM monkeyis2: anybody have tried teamview with linuxcnc? LOL
09:36 AM monkeyis2: i'm on Debian 3.4.55
09:38 AM archivist: I see a teamviewer on the net
09:39 AM archivist: most of us see "proprietary" and run
09:42 AM monkeyis2: looks firmware is same for 6i25 / 5i25
09:44 AM monkeyis2: http://www.mesanet.com/
09:44 AM monkeyis2: anybody could confirm the site is upto date?
09:45 AM monkeyis2: 5i25/6i25 driver are same.
09:45 AM IchGucksLive: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=290&search=7i76e
09:45 AM IchGucksLive: yes
09:45 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyis2: dident you buy a kit
09:45 AM monkeyis2: oh yes..
09:45 AM IchGucksLive: 5i25/7i76
09:46 AM IchGucksLive: i can give you a full config i run 4 mahines on 5i25/7i76
09:46 AM IchGucksLive: but there are plenty out
09:46 AM monkeyis2: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_73&product_id=217
09:46 AM IchGucksLive: and the pncconf will do all you need
09:46 AM monkeyis2: i bought this..
09:46 AM monkeyis2: cool.
09:47 AM IchGucksLive: so just plug it in
09:47 AM IchGucksLive: start the pc
09:47 AM monkeyis2: ok
09:47 AM monkeyis2: i did
09:47 AM IchGucksLive: power the 7i76 and start pncconf
09:47 AM IchGucksLive: thats all
09:47 AM monkeyis2: i did it asks to download firmware
09:48 AM IchGucksLive: what linuxcnc are you runing
09:48 AM monkeyis2: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_download_the_image
09:48 AM monkeyis2: this
09:48 AM monkeyis2: http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
09:48 AM IchGucksLive: did you uptade to 2.7.13
09:48 AM IchGucksLive: did you uptade to 2.7.11
09:49 AM monkeyis2: ok where i see? i updated bunch
09:49 AM IchGucksLive: open a terminal
09:49 AM monkeyis2: did
09:49 AM IchGucksLive: run linuxcnc and remember the number
09:49 AM monkeyis2: i'm on term
09:49 AM monkeyis2: oh
09:50 AM monkeyis2: 2.7.11
09:50 AM IchGucksLive: NICE
09:50 AM IchGucksLive: so lets see if you gor 5i25 already
09:51 AM IchGucksLive: in terminal
09:51 AM IchGucksLive: locate 5i25_7i76*
09:52 AM monkeyis2: ok did
09:52 AM monkeyis2: and rerun linuxcnc?
09:53 AM IchGucksLive: no did it find some files
09:53 AM monkeyis2: nope
09:53 AM monkeyis2: nothing....
09:53 AM IchGucksLive: not good
09:54 AM monkeyis2: what's unzip is installed by default?
09:55 AM monkeyis2: what unzip software is availaable i don't wanna install unrelated stuff.
09:55 AM IchGucksLive: FIRST please
09:55 AM IchGucksLive: cd lib/firmware/hm2
09:55 AM monkeyis2: OK
09:55 AM IchGucksLive: ls
09:55 AM IchGucksLive: WHAT is there
09:56 AM monkeyis2: er? i did "cd" so i'm on home.
09:56 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyis2: im in germany
09:56 AM monkeyis2: and where is lib?
09:56 AM pcw_home: No firmware is needed
09:56 AM monkeyis2: oh rly?
09:56 AM monkeyis2: cool
09:56 AM monkeyis2: germany is high tech company i love bmw.
09:57 AM monkeyis2: i mean there are many companies.
09:57 AM monkeyis2: high tech. top end.
09:57 AM monkeyis2: where is lib dir?
09:57 AM IchGucksLive: monkeyis2: so start pncconf
09:58 AM monkeyis2: i don't have lib dir yet
09:58 AM pcw_home: you should not need it
09:58 AM monkeyis2: ok so starting pncconf anyway
09:59 AM pcw_home: ( thats /lib/firmware but its not required with a 5i25/7i76 )
09:59 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/yuP5T
10:00 AM pcw_home: thats fine
10:00 AM monkeyis2: just ignore?
10:00 AM pcw_home: yes just hit "OK"
10:00 AM monkeyis2: did
10:01 AM monkeyis2: i can click start
10:02 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/iVzJx
10:02 AM pcw_home: just hit forward a few times until you get to the "Mesa Card 0 page"
10:04 AM pcw_home: ( the defaults should be fine )
10:04 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/aGIMv
10:04 AM monkeyis2: mesa0 pci / parport card etc
10:05 AM monkeyis2: just hit next? again
10:05 AM monkeyis2: ?
10:05 AM pcw_home: like I said, keep hitting forward until the Mesa Card 0 page
10:05 AM Contract_Pilot: Morning
10:05 AM monkeyis2: k
10:05 AM Contract_Pilot: Coffee Coffee
10:06 AM monkeyis2: pcw_home : ok i'm on there
10:06 AM Contract_Pilot: monkeyis2 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/pncconf.html
10:07 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/9ZZQB
10:08 AM monkeyis2: ahh
10:09 AM Contract_Pilot: PCW i think tormach tech said PP 2.0 is using mint distro
10:09 AM monkeyis2: firmware : 7i76x2 with one 7i76 right? cuz i have phsycially one.
10:10 AM Contract_Pilot: Yes
10:10 AM monkeyis2: K
10:10 AM pcw_home: yep, so click on "Accept components Changes" and continue
10:11 AM monkeyis2: lol now i have configure all IO pins? lol.. k anyway
10:11 AM monkeyis2: clicking
10:12 AM monkeyis2: ok cool
10:12 AM monkeyis2: thanks.
10:12 AM pcw_home: first I would configure the stepgens (on I/O connector 3)
10:13 AM monkeyis2: https://imgur.com/a/Nze5P
10:13 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, a biut straight forward when i first started i printed the manual, read what the window said go to manual section read.
10:14 AM pcw_home: stepgens are on I/O connector 3 (the 5I25s DB25)
10:14 AM monkeyis2: cool thank you
10:15 AM pcw_home: Contract_Pilot: yeah I am using LinuxCNC on Mint18 on a test machine
10:15 AM Contract_Pilot: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jasonwebb/tc-maker-4x4-router/master/media/electronic-control-system-linuxcnc/MESA%207i76%20pin%20mapping.jpg
10:17 AM Contract_Pilot: I guess tormach been beta testing it for a few months now excited that the release will be in a couple weeks
10:17 AM pcw_home: you dont have to order them this way but its common to use X=stepgen0,Y=stepgen1 etc
10:18 AM pcw_home: wonder if they have a NDA agreement with 2.0 testers? haven't heard a thing
10:18 AM Contract_Pilot: The tormach tech guy said no sectets
10:18 AM pcw_home: hmm
10:19 AM Contract_Pilot: And one of the testers on the forum was not required to sign a NDA
10:22 AM Contract_Pilot: swomeone needed some cable chain I cann ot remember who it was going to pass on the carma and just send it to them...
10:24 AM Contract_Pilot: Wonder how much i am going to have to change in the hal's and ini in 2.0
10:24 AM Contract_Pilot: PCW what so special about tormach's flash for the 5i/6i
10:26 AM JT-Shop: pcw_home: what do you need to do to drive a pwm spindle from a 7i77?
10:28 AM pcw_home: What frequency?
10:28 AM JT-Shop: I don't know
10:29 AM JT-Shop: or is it better to use another card for the pwm?
10:31 AM pcw_home: Yeah the 7I77 doesnt have any high speed digital outputs ( though I guess you could steal the TX pin on the sserial expansion port )
10:33 AM pcw_home: Contract_Pilot: its just firmware that matches their breakout
10:33 AM pcw_home: I do think they have a custom encoder module for the rapidturn
10:34 AM Contract_Pilot: Ok, yea was thinking of a simplet bob for less hal mods
10:34 AM pcw_home: if the PWM can be slow you can use a field output (really slow say 10 hz for 1% steps)
10:35 AM JT-Shop: thanks and if not slow is there a smart serial card that can be used?
10:45 AM pcw_home: No smart serial cards have PWM (though a 7I90 could be convinced to do this)
10:46 AM pcw_home: if you only have a 7I77 ( and no expansion sserial cards ) you could steal the TX output for a TTL level PWM signal
10:47 AM JT-Shop: what about a second card on the 7i92M
10:47 AM pcw_home: Sure
10:47 AM JT-Shop: he has a 7i92M, 7i77, 7i72
10:49 AM JT-Shop: 7i78?
10:49 AM pcw_home: OK so 7I85S or 7I75 etc would work ( or 7I92M output directly if yo want to live dangerously )
10:49 AM pcw_home: or even one of those $5.00 Chinese 5 axis breakouts
10:49 AM pcw_home: Yeah 7I78
10:51 AM pcw_home: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-With-Optical-Coupler-For-Stepper-Motor-Driver-MACH3/232314010353?epid=915085784&hash=item3616fe7af1:g:PCIAAOSwzqFZABZo
10:54 AM JT-Shop: thanks
11:50 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:52 AM hazzy: Hello Ichs
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: sirens i need to go
12:44 PM gloops_: hmm, inch gas pipe fits perfect over a chinese ballnut
01:00 PM Loetmichel: gloops_: gas as in propane or gas as in fuel?
01:01 PM gloops_: fuel gas - b.s.p british standard pipe
01:02 PM gloops_: well not perfect as in good fit, .5mm clearance
01:03 PM Loetmichel: gloops_: .5mm? thats what we call a "wurfpassung" in germany :-)
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: back
01:06 PM gloops_: it doesnt need to fit the ballnut
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: hazzy: missing person found in forest alive
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: online
01:10 PM hazzy: I am glad they found them. It is too cold to be lost for long and be OK
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: i just recived a image of todays school event with me and the litlle Education Cnc
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: only a vew seets been left empty
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/nov_17_vortrag_k.jpg
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: CNC is a real part they want to be
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: das wird wieder iein lustiger prüfungstag
01:16 PM gloops_: excellent Ichs, keep up the good work
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: ask that all this "kids" after examina
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: im closing got hungry in cold forest
01:21 PM hazzy: IchGucksLive: Wow, I don't think it would be possible to get more than a handful to attend a lecture on CNC here in the US. Great work!!
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:21 PM hazzy: gn8
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: hazzy: its a must
01:22 PM hazzy: Well, they would still not attend here :)
02:00 PM Deejay: re
02:09 PM gloops_: hi
02:24 PM roycroft: grr
02:24 PM roycroft: my spindle has arrived, with zero documentation
02:24 PM roycroft: the power connector is 4 pins, but i don't know which is ground
02:26 PM JT-Shop: time to get the meter out
02:27 PM roycroft: after work will be time to do that
02:27 PM roycroft: but yeah
02:28 PM roycroft: it would be nice if they shipped a single page with the pinouts
02:28 PM JT-Shop: that would be nice, what kind of spindle? router?
02:28 PM roycroft: yes
02:28 PM roycroft: it's a huanyang 80mm 2.2kw water cooled spindle
02:28 PM roycroft: fairly ubiquitous
02:29 PM Loetmichel: with the usual "4 pin microphone jack"?
02:30 PM Loetmichel: if you are lucky ONE of them IS acutal ground then...
02:30 PM roycroft: i pondered air cooled vs water cooled for quite a while, but in the end i decided that since it will be mounted nose up with sawdust being sucked down over it that water cooled would be best, as they are sealed
02:30 PM Loetmichel: mine was 3 phases one open pin
02:30 PM roycroft: yes, it has the 4 pin aviation type jack
02:30 PM Loetmichel: the ground was supposed to be on the sleeve screw
02:30 PM roycroft: 3 phase one open would be fine
02:31 PM roycroft: because i could wire it however i want without worrying about blowing it up
02:31 PM roycroft: it would just not work if i wired it wrong
02:34 PM roycroft: it also did not come with collet wrenches, which i kind of expected
02:34 PM roycroft: and i can easily fix that
02:35 PM roycroft: on a positive note, it is shiny and heavy!
02:41 PM * roycroft hopes the spindle runs pretty quietly, as he hates the sound of a universal motor winding up to 24,000 rpm
02:47 PM roycroft: well, no meter necessary
02:47 PM roycroft: i have a screwdriver in my office, so i removed the power connector
02:47 PM roycroft: pin 4 is open
02:50 PM gloops_: Ichs or archivist will sort the wiring if you get stuck
02:53 PM roycroft: it won't be a problem
02:53 PM roycroft: the spindle is 3 phase
02:53 PM roycroft: there are three wires connected to it
02:53 PM roycroft: i cannot wire it wrong
02:53 PM roycroft: it may run backwards when i first wire it, but swapping any 2 wires will fix that
02:54 PM gloops_: then theres the on/off and rpm control
02:55 PM roycroft: programming the vfd is another story, but i've i used huanyang vfds before
02:55 PM roycroft: i haven't even bought one for this application yet - i have one that's not being used currently that i can use to test it
02:55 PM roycroft: the tricky bit with that is that the display is in hertz, and i want to display actual rpm
02:56 PM gloops_: ahh you wont be running it from linuxcnc?
02:56 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i can realisticaly do that from the vfd electronics, and may need to install a stand-alone tachometer if i want to know actual rpms
02:56 PM roycroft: no, i won't
02:56 PM gloops_: as not a cnc machine
02:56 PM roycroft: this is going to be used for a wood router stand
02:56 PM roycroft: manually operated
02:56 PM gloops_: right
02:57 PM roycroft: the vfd will live inside the cabinet, so i'll need remote display/speed/power
02:57 PM roycroft: speed control is just a 10k pot
02:57 PM roycroft: and power is just a switch
02:58 PM roycroft: if rpms turns out to be more work than i want i'll just make a chart of hz to rpm mappings and go by hz
02:58 PM gloops_: i dont know how to control the speed if not through a control app, i had mine just simple on/off from the vfd panel, but no means of changing the speed from the vfd itself
02:58 PM roycroft: i don't need precise rpm control
02:58 PM roycroft: with the huanyang it's really easy
02:59 PM gloops_: yeah that would be straightforward enough
02:59 PM roycroft: you use an external 10k pot, and tell the vfd to use the external pot
02:59 PM gloops_: actually yeah i seem to remember someone saying that
02:59 PM roycroft: two wires, one register setting, and bob's your uncle
03:00 PM roycroft: before any of that, though, i need to get the thing fitted to my router lift
03:00 PM roycroft: i'm hoping one of the non-documented pad mounting configurations will just work
03:01 PM roycroft: otherwise i'll need to machine some pads to hold it
03:01 PM roycroft: i'll power it up today just to ensure that the magic smoke doesn't escape
03:01 PM roycroft: and then i'll work on the mounts, and on building the router stand
03:30 PM JimPanski: hi! anyone there who has retrofitted simens sinumerik machine? i wonder if i could bring the machine control panel to life.
03:34 PM Connor: Any ideas on restoring a old Park kennedy style tool box? The outside has large amounts of rust. Inside the felt looks good.. top of box that doesn't have felt might need to be clean up too.
03:36 PM Connor: Kinda looks like one of these.. http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/tool-storage/chests/kennedy-7-drawer-machinist-brown?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KCQiAi7XQBRDnARIsANeLIevviChLwfn86pNHWdxHvt-W5XrrcFkzNcgv25HMLxerfcZaG4rigXAaAkX3EALw_wcB
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: dissassemble, sandblast, paint?
03:41 PM Connor: Maybe.. It's pretty bad.. Might not be worth it.. belong to my uncle..
03:41 PM Connor: What sort of finish did they have on them? I can't believe how bad it rusted.
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: flap-wheel on the worst of it, maybe some phosphoric acid gel, or similar, and then paint it whatever is the other option
03:42 PM XXCoder: GOP just sucuided.
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: Maybe.
03:43 PM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: I remember something on derusting using electicity?
03:43 PM XXCoder: but same time felt is still there
03:43 PM SpeedEvil: Much policy decision seems to be made on the 'hold my beer and watch this' tactic.
03:43 PM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: yes, that would need quite a deep tank for a toolbox
03:43 PM XXCoder: also "who is worse person possible to hold this position?"
03:46 PM XXCoder: thats true would be bit work on making larger tank to hold
03:47 PM archivist: Connor, wire brush in a drill then any metal paint of your choice
03:48 PM XXCoder: archivist: some pre-processing would help
03:49 PM SpeedEvil: Depends if you want it to look OK from 20 feet or 2.
03:49 PM SpeedEvil: Or are just trying to stop it rusting furtrher
03:50 PM XXCoder: yeah if dont care on looks, just wire bush till thinner rust left, then anti-rust paint it
03:51 PM archivist: before http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_25_Barber_Colman/IMG_1273.JPG
03:52 PM archivist: after http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_25_Barber_Colman/IMG_1274.JPG
03:53 PM archivist: Lidl metal paint 2 coats
03:55 PM archivist: back on the machine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_17_Barber_Colman_cnc/IMG_1830.JPG
03:57 PM archivist: smaller parts, wire brush on the double ended bench grinder
03:59 PM XXCoder: not bad
04:01 PM archivist: another machine http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=new+filing+machine
04:03 PM archivist: out in garden condition to running in a bit over a week
04:03 PM roycroft: i wouldn't mind having a nice filing machine
04:03 PM roycroft: although i don't know where i'd put it
04:06 PM XXCoder: doctor who may have solution for you
04:06 PM XXCoder: nah kidding. dunno
04:20 PM JT-Shop: damn big ass spider just ran across my desk
04:26 PM gregcnc: I saw a video of a die filer and now I think i'd buy one if I found one cheap. don't know what i'd use it for
04:38 PM Deejay: gn8
04:55 PM malcom2073: gregcnc: When I first saw a die filer (my dad got one), I thought the same thing. But more and more, I'm finding things where I think "Man... a die filer could do this much easier"
05:30 PM _methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRj34o4hN4I
05:30 PM _methods: new boston dynamics video
05:31 PM _methods: atlas jumping and doing a backflip
05:38 PM sync: haha the controller oscillating on landing
05:40 PM roycroft: time to go see if the spindle fits without modifying my router lift and spin it up to see if it works
05:50 PM malcom2073: Jesus that's awesome/terrifying
05:51 PM malcom2073: Haha the end
05:51 PM malcom2073: have you seen the darpa grand challenge humanoid bloopers?
05:51 PM malcom2073: Lots of humanoid robots doing dumb things and falling over
05:58 PM hazzy: roycroft: ah, so the lift arrived, hope you can get the spindle to fit without having to modify it
06:04 PM djdelorie: stupid robots being better at things than me... :-(
06:05 PM malcom2073: djdelorie: Get used to it :/
06:07 PM djdelorie: just last week I saw this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjZPvXKewFk
06:07 PM djdelorie: but it reminds me of Emo Philips saying "My computer can beat me at chess, but it's no match for my kickboxing"
06:08 PM MarcelineVQ: malcom2073, gregcnc: saw a die filer, or something quite like one, in a clickspring video. looks pretty goshdarn useful
06:08 PM malcom2073: It really is!
06:10 PM sync: kinda made obsolete by modern technologies
06:10 PM sync: and it is hard to get machine files for them nowadays
06:10 PM gregcnc: that's what i wondered, how do you tool them
06:11 PM sync: some people still make them or have them in stock but they are getting rare
06:13 PM malcom2073: sync: What modern tech replaces it?
06:13 PM gregcnc: EDM probably
06:15 PM malcom2073: Yeah, though a die filer has the advantage of being usable on materials other than metal
06:24 PM sync: malcom2073: vmcs
06:25 PM malcom2073: CNC has killed off a lot of stuff, but manual stuff still seems to maintain some market
07:52 PM enleth: look no further than Abom79 and his employer for a solid example
07:56 PM andypugh: I giess when each cut on the lathe takes 10 minutes there is slightly less to be gained from CNC.
07:58 PM sync: yes, a hydraulics shop probably benefits less from a cnc than others
07:59 PM sync: but with the right machines they would get their labour cost down
07:59 PM sync: although there are no real cost effective solutions to replace HBMs
08:03 PM enleth: I'm pretty sure the most important factor here is that every single of their jobs is a) unique b) huge, and many are c) lacking any drawings, let alone a CAD design
08:05 PM enleth: setup time and cost for a big weird one-off on a CNC would cut into any additional profit gained by using CNC for such tasks
08:05 PM sync: with a lathe you can jam in the part much faster in conversational programming
08:06 PM enleth: unless 2/3 of your time spent with the machine is either part setup and true-ups, or final touchups with a mic check after every pass
08:08 PM enleth: and most of the rest is handled by power feeds
08:09 PM enleth: I guess threads and tapers are where a conversational CNC could outpace Abom
08:10 PM roycroft: well my spindle was easy to mount
08:10 PM enleth: but I don't think it would so much as even out with that kind of jobs
08:10 PM roycroft: i found a setting that was close to the right size, wrapped a piece of 0.010" shim stock around the spindle, and it tightened right up
08:10 PM * roycroft likes it when things go easily
08:12 PM sync: enleth: probably not, but that depends on your operator cost
08:21 PM andypugh: I do all my lathe work with something that isn’t even conversational. Just a set of turning, facting, threading macros with a special GUI.
08:22 PM andypugh: But unlike a conventional power feed, my turning macro can do any taper, and a radiused runout.
08:26 PM Contract_Pilot: Andy i guess PP 2.0 will be running on mint?
08:29 PM sync: andypugh: so like any conversional on a real control
08:30 PM andypugh: Mine doesn’t create G-code, so isn’t true conversational.
08:31 PM andypugh: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
08:38 PM sync: I don't think actual controls generate gcode either
08:38 PM sync: but rather directly their intermediate whatever
08:41 PM enleth: that was my impression as well
08:41 PM enleth: there are (old) conversational-only systems too
08:44 PM roycroft: yay
08:44 PM roycroft: the spindle works great
08:45 PM roycroft: nice and quiet, with almost no vibration at all
08:45 PM roycroft: my project can finally take off
09:31 PM hazzy: roycroft: glad to hear the spindle fit the lift without need for mods
09:31 PM hazzy: how do you like the lift so far?
09:42 PM roycroft: i haven't installed it yet
09:42 PM roycroft: but i've checked it out and i know i'm going to like it a lot
09:42 PM roycroft: keep in mind that i already have a very good router lift
09:43 PM roycroft: the new one has enough features that the old one doesn't to easily justify getting it though
09:43 PM roycroft: and that spindle is going to be so sweet
09:43 PM roycroft: quiet, powerful, fast, and remote control
09:44 PM roycroft: i'll never have to bend over and reach into the router stand again to adjust the speed
09:44 PM chopper79: hazzy: the vfd wiring idea worked out fine
09:44 PM hazzy: Hurray!
09:46 PM roycroft: the machining of some parts was a little rough
09:46 PM roycroft: but once i did a little deburring the lift worked great
09:46 PM roycroft: i love the magnalock inserts
09:46 PM roycroft: rather, i should put it this way
09:47 PM roycroft: i hate the twist lock inserts that the other brands have
09:47 PM chopper79: Only thing left is winning this fight with the 7i76e
09:48 PM hazzy: Yes, the magnalock inserts are great! (But bits don't seem to like it when you lower them into them while running :( )
09:51 PM roycroft: i'm vfd shopping right now, and it looks like the hunayang ones don't come with on-board speed control pots any more
09:51 PM roycroft: they don't explicitly say they do or don't, but all the pictures i see don't have the pot
09:52 PM roycroft: that's not critical, because i'll be controlling speed remotely, but it's nice to have on board for initial testing
09:52 PM hazzy: chopper79: Have you gotten a chance to see how the 7i76e works as far as latency? Ethernet seem like it would be fine for steppers were RT feedback is not needed
09:54 PM hazzy: roycroft: I would highly recommend one of the Automation Direct VFDs, they are very nice units and technical support is top notch, and not that much more expensive
09:54 PM roycroft: i'll check them out
09:54 PM roycroft: i've bought from automation direct before
09:54 PM roycroft: and what's expensive is replacing a vfd
09:55 PM roycroft: not paying a little more up front for a better one
09:55 PM chopper79: hazzy: no I have not as the magic smoke keeps coming out of them.... The 7i77/7i92 I have in my matsuura mill is decent as far as latency goes.
09:55 PM chopper79: Excited to try the 7i76e
09:56 PM hazzy: roycroft: AD is right around the corner from me, which is kinda bad for my wallet :)
09:56 PM roycroft: the automation direct ones are more than twice as expensive as the huanyang ones off ebay/amazon
09:57 PM hazzy: Really? Ok, that is much more of a difference than I remember
09:58 PM roycroft: i can get a single phase input 3kw huanyang for about $155 with free shipping
09:58 PM roycroft: a single phase 3kw durapulse from automation direct is $347 + shipping
09:59 PM roycroft: i like to upsize ssrs and vfds
09:59 PM roycroft: so for my 2.2kw spindle i am going to use a 3kw vfd
10:00 PM roycroft: oh, there's another brand there for only $309 + shipping
10:00 PM roycroft: so only 2x as much, not 2x+ as much
10:02 PM hazzy: The AD drives are designed to run on 1ph input, (unlike most of the other China drives) so there should be no need to upsize
10:02 PM chopper79: hazzy: I have been very happy witht the performance of my 7i77+7i92 setup using ethernet on my matsuura retrofit. I have not noticed any issue with functionality or being able to read the encoders/spindle at all. the only thing that I have noticed is every once in a while there is some packet loss, but nothing that has caused trouble.
10:03 PM chopper79: Figure on a stepper machine it would be awesome
10:05 PM hazzy: chopper79: Good to hear! I tend to stick with the PCI cards because I now it just works, but it really opens up the possibilities being able to use Ethernet
10:05 PM chopper79: Yeah I went out on a limb to try one and have been pleased. I normally use 5i25 with either a 7i77 or 7i76 depending on the build.
10:07 PM hazzy: Maybe I'll try Ethernet on the Mazak ...
10:07 PM chopper79: On the topic of VFD.... I have messed with these and they work well.
10:07 PM roycroft: both of the vfds i see at automation direct take single phase or 3 phase input
10:07 PM chopper79: http://www.invertekdrives.com/
10:11 PM hazzy: roycroft: Yes, but they have large filter caps that are designed to run at full output on single phase, most VFDs can be run on single phase but need to be upsized accordingly
10:15 PM roycroft: the 2.2kw ones are still 2x as expensive as the 3kw huanyang ones
10:16 PM roycroft: if i really wanted a top notch vfd i'd spend $600-$1400 for a german or us made one
10:16 PM hazzy: yes, and it is just a router :)
10:16 PM roycroft: yes
10:17 PM roycroft: heaps of people use the huanyang vfds for cnc spindles
10:17 PM roycroft: there are cheaper ones, but those seem to be at the sweet price/performance point
10:17 PM roycroft: and i already have a couple of them and am happy with them sofar
10:19 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Frequency-Inverter-Function-Realize/dp/B00Z4ZKXP8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1510891930&sr=8-4&keywords=3kw+vfd+huanyang
10:19 PM roycroft: that's what i'm leaning towards
10:19 PM chopper79: hazzy: what Mazak do you have?
10:19 PM roycroft: i get a 5% discount if i buy it off amazon with my discover card
10:20 PM hazzy: the mazak is a VTC 41
10:22 PM roycroft: hmm, i can get a 4 year warranty for an extra $15
10:22 PM roycroft: that may not be a bad idea
10:29 PM roycroft: now for a coolant pump
10:30 PM Roguish: check it out, Tesla trucks .... https://www.ustream.tv/channel/23313961
10:31 PM Roguish: roycroft: are the huanyang vfd OK?
10:32 PM roycroft: lots of people use them, roguish
10:32 PM roycroft: they are pretty reliable
10:32 PM roycroft: most people who complain about them don't know how to configure them properly
10:33 PM Roguish: i have a pair of automationdirect 2hp vfd's and want to switch them out to 3hp. for intermittent use.
10:33 PM chopper79: hazzy: interesting machine you have there. I kind like the fact the table does not move.
10:33 PM roycroft: see the link above
10:34 PM roycroft: i just ordered one of those
10:34 PM roycroft: it's 3kw/4hp
10:34 PM roycroft: but we were discussing earlier upsizing them
10:34 PM roycroft: i'll be running a 3hp spindle with the one i just ordered
10:34 PM MarcelineVQ: roycroft: I've got a 2.2kw one of those, no complaints so far, I've been told you'll want to shield it pretty hard though
10:35 PM roycroft: the ones i have now are 2.2kw
10:38 PM hazzy: chopper79: It is an interesting machine! Unfortunately it is not mine, I am updating the control to linuxcnc for a tubular fab. They have the enclosure removed and since the table does not move they can machine features on very large parts
10:39 PM chopper79: nice
10:39 PM roycroft: have any of you used this:
10:39 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232383121796
10:39 PM roycroft: a little more money than i want to spend, but i like that i can just drop it in
10:39 PM roycroft: i was going to buy just a pump and construct a coolant tank
10:41 PM chopper79: Looking into a horizontal mill right now. 40x40x100 of machine area. Just not sure where I would put a 20k lbs machine that is 240" long.
10:41 PM Roguish: i have a coolant pump similar. in a 5 gal bucket rather than tub. very close though. works ok for near 10years old.
10:42 PM MarcelineVQ: seen a couple vids now where the spindle cooling is just a little 2 fan liquid radiator for cpu's that sits right behind the spindle
10:42 PM chopper79: roycroft: I have one of those for my bandsaw, it works well
10:42 PM roycroft: cool
10:43 PM roycroft: i really want to get this project done
10:43 PM roycroft: and buying a self-contained setup like that will save a lot of time
10:44 PM chopper79: to cool my VFD I use a twin fan radiator for a PC and a sealed holding tank. Keeps the spindle super cool all day long even on 10hr cuts it is still cool as can be.
10:44 PM roycroft: oh cool
10:44 PM roycroft: that pump can run off 110 or 220 volts
10:44 PM roycroft: i won't have to bring a separate power cord to the pump - it can run off the 220v input to the fd
10:46 PM chopper79: My cooling system runs off 24vdc for the spindle
10:47 PM chopper79: I typically use a 3kw spindle on my builds
10:47 PM roycroft: this application is a wood router stand
10:47 PM roycroft: not cnc controlled
10:48 PM roycroft: singe phase 220vac is all the power i'll have for it
10:48 PM chopper79: got y
10:48 PM roycroft: and if i'm honest, the dust collection system will probably cool the spindle pretty well
10:49 PM roycroft: but i think it's prudent to pump liquid coolant through it ahyway
10:49 PM roycroft: anyway
10:49 PM roycroft: those pc radiators are over $100
10:50 PM roycroft: the one with the tan and pump that i'm looking at isn't that much more expensive, although it's a lot bigger
10:51 PM chopper79: I use a 24v flojet pump, two fans, radiator, and tank for about the $100 mark. Not sure what you are looking at for 100 on just the radiator
10:51 PM chopper79: seems up there
10:51 PM roycroft: i just saw one at newegg.com that was that price
10:52 PM roycroft: and newegg is usually pretty aggressive on price
10:52 PM chopper79: got ya
10:52 PM chopper79: https://www.ebay.com/itm/280mm-Aluminum-Radiator-3-8-OD-Black-For-PC-Water-Liquid-Cooling/253249701829?epid=1431420015&hash=item3af6dbc7c5:g:9BcAAOSwnw9aA6MN
10:53 PM chopper79: Mine was $20.78 new with free shipping
10:54 PM roycroft: i was not planning on using a radiator
10:54 PM roycroft: my hope is that the tank will hold enough coolant that it will not need a radiator
10:54 PM roycroft: i don't plan on running this thing for hours at a time
10:54 PM roycroft: 30 minutes would probabaly be a pretty long session
10:54 PM chopper79: should be fine then
10:55 PM roycroft: but as i said, i'll be using a dust collector as well
10:55 PM roycroft: 1500 cfm sucking down over the spindle whenever it's running
10:56 PM chopper79: should help a lot
10:56 PM roycroft: that should cool it quite a bit by itself
10:56 PM hazzy: and the lift itself should serve as a heat sink to some extent
10:57 PM chopper79: Well it has been fun, but I need to land 3 more 220v lines in this enlcosure and hit the bed. Have a good night all!
10:57 PM roycroft: ciao
10:57 PM hazzy: Talk to you chopper79
10:58 PM chopper79: later
11:00 PM roycroft: ok, i got that pump with the tank
11:01 PM roycroft: that might be a nice coolant system for my mill-drill, whenever i finish the cnc conversion
11:06 PM gloops__: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milling-Machine-Small/122809216123?
11:06 PM gloops__: for nothing