#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 14 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:23 AM the_wench: gloops: archivist said jacobs taper
12:39 AM IchGucksLive: morning from europ
12:39 AM IchGucksLive: its cold icy road
12:50 AM gloops: the_wench yeah its just a normal taper
12:50 AM gloops: (thanks)
12:52 AM gloops: if i do get this drill the problem will be finding a spring
12:52 AM gloops: cold here as well Ichs
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: ?
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: spring drill combiation makes no sence for me
12:55 AM gloops: was just replying to a comment made before you joined Ichs
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: today a serias of t-shirt letter cutting
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: off till later
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: we hit the 100k line on YT
01:38 AM * Loetmichel states: It was a good idea to park the convertible at the company yesterday, get a coworker to drive me home and stack winter-windowwash for the other car. Had to defrost the windows this morning by pouring half a can over the Opel before commuting to work. MAN is that cold in germany today ;)
01:56 AM Deejay: moin
02:12 AM gloops: hello
02:13 AM gloops: today i might finally begin cutting some steel
02:13 AM archivist: gas axe
02:13 AM gloops: grinder
02:15 AM Loetmichel: archivist: gas axe= oxy/acetylene cutting torch?
02:16 AM archivist: yes
02:16 AM gloops: have got 2 gantry upright designs in mind, 1st is a simple peice of 80mm box section, the other is a rather brutal angular looking shape that doesnt really add anything strength wise and would take some time to fabricate
02:16 AM gloops: so i might go with #2
02:18 AM archivist: Loetmichel, took a temporary job in 1976 cutting girders to size, until a pile fell on my leg and broke a bone
02:20 AM gloops: wondering if the walker turner drill chuck taper is on a morse taper
02:22 AM archivist: which end and is there a slot
02:22 AM archivist: picture?
02:22 AM gloops: not got a pic
02:23 AM archivist: there is a snot green one on fleabay
02:23 AM Loetmichel: archivist: so you are even older than me... 1976 i was barely old enough to go to school :-)
02:24 AM archivist: I started work 68/69
02:27 AM archivist: missing important picture on that lot
02:30 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-ROCKWELL-WALKER-TURNER-20-DRILL-PRESS-3-MORSE-TAPER-QUILL-SPINDLE/292318610354?
02:31 AM gloops: so if the same can fit mt3 and reducers direct
02:32 AM archivist: oh for better item pictures sometimes, can ask to go look at it
02:34 AM Loetmichel: archivist: i was BORN in '69 ;)
02:35 AM archivist: I retired!
02:37 AM archivist: gloops, I have an unidentified pillar drill, no idea at the moment, similar return spring cover
02:38 AM archivist: hmm not so similar on second look
02:38 AM gloops: i wouldnt think these springs are a standard spring, but who knows, will have to see what the issue is, maybe the spring just came out of lug or something
02:39 AM archivist: some are clock style others are standard coiled wire
02:40 AM archivist: mine is a crappy designed coiled wire type, not enough space for it
02:41 AM gloops: suppose something could be rigged up for personal use, drill not much value without the spring though
02:41 AM archivist: cover looks deep enough for clock style
02:44 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010224.JPG mine is in a channel under the flat cover then under the round part
02:45 AM archivist: you can just about see the bodge which is a bit of wire on the handle shaft around a pulley with a weight
02:47 AM gloops: oh yeah, so spring not working on that either?
02:49 AM Loetmichel: these "clock springs" in the quill return are the first thing to break on the cheap chinese desk size drilling machines
02:49 AM Loetmichel: i have 3 of them, not one has the original spring inside
02:50 AM Loetmichel: on one i had to improvise and used a piece of pallet strap ground down to size and wound up
02:50 AM Loetmichel: Surprisingly that works pretty well
02:50 AM gloops: good thinking
02:51 AM gloops: naerook drill maybe archivist
02:52 AM Loetmichel: gloops: it was laying around, and considering how unwieldly that stuff is once cut from the pallet i thought it would make a pretty decent spring... turns out its even longer living than the original ones ;)
02:53 AM gloops: ill bear that in mind Loet, it is springy stuff yeah
02:53 AM archivist: dunno about naerook
02:54 AM archivist: simple enough to bodge to wire and a weight
02:57 AM archivist: nearly drivin miss daisy time back in 20
03:05 AM gloops: bbl
05:17 AM Stephanisk: hello everyone
05:18 AM Stephanisk: any chance someone could help me install the .deb packages for the developer version on stretch?
05:18 AM XXCoder: double click file
05:19 AM Stephanisk: yes but which one
05:19 AM XXCoder: ah more than one
05:19 AM Stephanisk: i have 6 debs after the buildpackage
05:19 AM XXCoder: supporting libaries first
05:19 AM XXCoder: then the program that depends on those
05:19 AM Stephanisk: thx for helping firstly
05:20 AM Stephanisk: ok how do i know what is the primary?
05:20 AM Stephanisk: linuxcnc-doc-en_2.8.0~pre1_all.deb
05:21 AM Stephanisk: linuxcnc-doc-es_2.8.0~pre1_all.deb
05:21 AM Stephanisk: linuxcnc-doc-fr_2.8.0~pre1_all.deb
05:21 AM Stephanisk: linuxcnc-uspace-dbgsym_2.8.0~pre1_amd64.deb
05:21 AM Stephanisk: linuxcnc-uspace-dev_2.8.0~pre1_amd64.deb
05:21 AM Stephanisk: linuxcnc-uspace_2.8.0~pre1_amd64.deb
05:21 AM Stephanisk: i used the build iso with stretch from the website to install stretch with linuxcnc 2.7.11
05:21 AM jthornton: morning
05:22 AM Stephanisk: but i would need the 2.8 version. i know how to run it in place ( rip-environment) but i want the full install
05:22 AM Stephanisk: morning
05:22 AM Stephanisk: to you too
05:23 AM archivist: choices, there is 2.8 in all of those
05:23 AM Stephanisk: that is the result after following the guide in building linuxcnc and the dpkg-buildpackage -b -uc command
05:24 AM XXCoder: first 3 is languages, english es (unknown) and french
05:24 AM jthornton: es is spanish
05:24 AM Stephanisk: guessed so, but which of the 3 last ones
05:24 AM XXCoder: dbsym is debug symbols
05:24 AM jthornton: those are just the docs
05:24 AM XXCoder: dev is dveeolopment, last one is main program
05:25 AM XXCoder: last one only?
05:25 AM Stephanisk: so i run the first 5 first and than the last one?
05:25 AM XXCoder: as well as choose one of docs
05:25 AM XXCoder: nah just one of docs and last one
05:25 AM Stephanisk: ok
05:26 AM Stephanisk: and which terminal command do i use? sudo dpkg -i linuxcnc-uspace_2.8.0~pre1_amd64.deb
05:26 AM jthornton: you can just double click a deb and Gdebi will install it
05:26 AM Stephanisk: ok
05:26 AM Stephanisk: so first a language and than the last one. Let's try
05:27 AM Stephanisk: this will automatically overwrite the existing installation of linuxcnc 2.7.11?
05:28 AM jthornton: I think so
05:28 AM XXCoder: should do so? is it on your production machine?
05:28 AM XXCoder: 2.8 seems to be preview version?
05:28 AM Stephanisk: no this is my first time working on linuxcnc, i am still working on my complete hal and pyvcp
05:28 AM XXCoder: cool
05:29 AM jthornton: master development version where new things can be added at any time
05:29 AM Stephanisk: i have already a working hal with a colleague of yours who gave me 4 days of class
05:29 AM Stephanisk: double clicking doesnt work
05:29 AM Stephanisk: than he opens to extract
05:29 AM Stephanisk: :) my god. Learning and linux and linuxcnc at the same time is sometimes frustrating
05:30 AM jthornton: you may not have GDebi installed, sudo apt-get install gdebi
05:30 AM Stephanisk: doing that
05:31 AM Stephanisk: incorrect password
05:31 AM Stephanisk: what is that of a strange thing
05:32 AM Stephanisk: i am giving my sudo password. How in the name of .... can that be wrong?
05:33 AM XXCoder: caps?
05:33 AM Stephanisk: no tried belgian layout us layout
05:34 AM Stephanisk: is there a sudo command to run them?
05:36 AM Stephanisk: tried the dpkg -i command and that wortks
05:36 AM Stephanisk: indeed the packages you told me XXcoder
05:36 AM Stephanisk: know my startmenu starts 2.8.0
05:36 AM jthornton: when you installed did you give a root password?
05:36 AM Stephanisk: yes but it is the same one
05:36 AM Stephanisk: as my sudo
05:37 AM jthornton: ah then no sudo
05:37 AM Stephanisk: if it is wrong, can i reset it somehow?
05:37 AM jthornton: google might tell you how
05:37 AM XXCoder: you can change password yes
05:37 AM Stephanisk: how that?
05:37 AM XXCoder: a sec
05:38 AM XXCoder: first do su
05:38 AM XXCoder: it will ask for password. use current
05:38 AM XXCoder: then use passwd
05:38 AM Stephanisk: if i give in my password it says authentication failure
05:38 AM XXCoder: it will ask for new password, type it then enter. confirm it then done
05:38 AM Stephanisk: not the first time this happens
05:38 AM Stephanisk: i have this after every install, like he didn't get my passw
05:39 AM Stephanisk: stephane@StephaneCNC:~$ su Password: su: Authentication failure
05:39 AM XXCoder: different capitalizion?
05:40 AM Stephanisk: what?
05:40 AM Stephanisk: :)
05:41 AM XXCoder: like this. Like This.
05:41 AM Stephanisk: nope tried it
05:42 AM Stephanisk: when i installed stretch, whenever i was prompted for a password i gave in the exact same password
05:42 AM Stephanisk: i tried azerty and qwerty cominations
05:43 AM XXCoder: I wonder if su is using different keyboard setting than user
05:43 AM XXCoder: is that even possible? dunno
05:43 AM Stephanisk: i surely don't know
05:44 AM Stephanisk: but i tried with different keyboard settings. could only be qwerty or azerty
05:44 AM Stephanisk: both are failure
05:44 AM jthornton: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Root_Password_Reset
05:44 AM Stephanisk: unless numpad didn't work
05:46 AM Stephanisk: ok boot into grub
05:46 AM XXCoder: use numbers on top of keyboard not numpad
05:46 AM XXCoder: see if that works
05:48 AM Stephanisk: tried that too already
05:48 AM Stephanisk: in both axerty and qwerty
05:48 AM Stephanisk: its hilarious sometimes how difficult linux can be
05:49 AM Stephanisk: yet strangely enough i start to find it better and better
05:49 AM Stephanisk: installation with apt-get is super easy
05:50 AM XXCoder: linux is pretty well developed by now
05:50 AM XXCoder: never will be as polished as windows and ios but whatever
05:51 AM XXCoder: been using linux computer for years now
05:51 AM Stephanisk: i will try this grub later on today
05:51 AM Stephanisk: for now i will just focus on my fresh install of linuxcnc that you all helped me finally install
05:52 AM Stephanisk: i am superhappy
05:52 AM Stephanisk: :)
05:52 AM jthornton: if you reinstall just don't give root a password
05:52 AM Stephanisk: that is an idea too
05:52 AM Stephanisk: :))))
05:52 AM Stephanisk: we'll do
05:52 AM Stephanisk: oh i do have another question
05:52 AM Stephanisk: :)
05:53 AM jthornton: if you read all the blurb at root password it usually tells you that sudo is disabled if you give root a password
05:53 AM Stephanisk: i would like to control my linux computer with a vnc
05:53 AM jthornton: vnc?
05:53 AM Stephanisk: yes. I would like to work on my windows computer using vnc viewer of my linux computer
05:54 AM Stephanisk: matter of having 3 screesn on the windows one makes it easier to research and working
05:54 AM Stephanisk: but i couldn't get it working 2 days ago, spend a night working on it
05:54 AM Stephanisk: i was able to use remote desktop but than linuxcnc doenst work, something about the shared memory, although i did what the guide told me to do
05:55 AM Stephanisk: it ran when executed on the linux machine, but not in remote desktop
05:55 AM jthornton: ah I've never done that I usually ssh into my linux pc's from another linux pc
05:55 AM Stephanisk: so i guess i need a vnc
05:55 AM Stephanisk: yes but in ssh i don't have a graphical interface to work on the linux computer
05:55 AM Stephanisk: just the terminal
05:56 AM Stephanisk: doesn't run linuxcnc :)
05:57 AM XXCoder: jthornton: check this out https://futurism.com/dutch-farm-carbon-neutral-eggs/
05:57 AM jthornton: say I'm editing a file on my raspberry pi 3 in the chicken coop, I mount the directory in the pi from here and open the file with my regular text editor as if it was on this pc
05:57 AM jthornton: sudo sshfs -o allow_other,default_permissions pi@192.168.1.120:/home/pi/bin /home/john/rpibin
05:58 AM jthornton: that is the command but you would have to change the ip address and make sure you have the directory
05:59 AM sync: Stephanisk: you can run linuxcnc through ssh
05:59 AM sync: it will render on your screen then
05:59 AM sync: you just need to forward X11
06:00 AM Stephanisk: ok, just a sec
06:00 AM jthornton: XXCoder: that's not new a guy in vegas has a hog farm and the hogs eat all the waste from the hotels
06:00 AM jthornton: sync: how do you forward X11?
06:01 AM XXCoder: jthornton: yeah though its nice that people is thinking up less carbon-dependant methods
06:01 AM jthornton: and his hogs get to eat some pretty good chow
06:03 AM Stephanisk: got windows open lets try
06:04 AM XXCoder: jthornton: I once read about people finding a way to convert algae to crude oil
06:05 AM XXCoder: not specific oil or something, crude oil. same oil as what people drill for and distall into many productss
06:07 AM XXCoder: combined with algae bioreactor and maybe solar heater for "cooking" part, we have nice source of crude oil
06:08 AM jthornton: I think you can turn any animal into oil I seem to recall that there is a cow guts place here that makes bio diesel from the leftovers
06:08 AM Stephanisk: @jthornton: i got my ssh open and tried that command but i got bad mount point ' default_permissions: no such file or directory
06:08 AM XXCoder: yeah theres also process that turns many plastics into oil
06:09 AM jthornton: you don't do that from ssh
06:09 AM jthornton: just open a terminal and do that
06:09 AM XXCoder: the process I menioned though is crude oil which is awesome because we can stop drilling for oil
06:09 AM Stephanisk: terminal on the linuxpc
06:09 AM Stephanisk: but than how i open a graphical interface on the windows computer?
06:10 AM jthornton: this is for linux to linux I don't know about windows I think Tom_L does
06:13 AM Stephanisk: anyone knows how to set up vnc
06:13 AM Stephanisk: cause that is what i learned on the raspberry pi to control from windows pc
06:13 AM Stephanisk: that works perfectly
06:13 AM Stephanisk: pi uses realvnc
06:14 AM Stephanisk: u activate the server on the pi in the startup script and than with vnc viewer from any windows pc you have full graphical access to the rasperbery pi
06:14 AM Stephanisk: so i guess for linux would be the same, set up the server and than access through a viewer
06:14 AM Stephanisk: only one small problem, i don't seem to be able to set up the server correctly and i don't have a clue how the startup script should be modified
06:19 AM Stephanisk: ohhh... FYI for the debian packages i need to run them all, otherwise mesaflash doesnt seem to be working
06:21 AM sync: jthornton: ssh -Y
06:23 AM jthornton: Stephanisk: http://www.mesaus.com/info/firmware.html
06:23 AM jthornton: sync: I just did that and it is a normal terminal
06:24 AM jthornton: maybe you meant ssh -X
06:24 AM jthornton: and maybe not after reading the man page
06:25 AM Stephanisk: that doesn't do anything from a windows ssh
06:33 AM Frank_10: hellooo guys; im having a stupid little annoying problem with my limits; i cant tell if.its noise or (vibration)?
06:33 AM Frank_10: when mache running a program it suddenly trips a limit
06:34 AM Frank_10: and when i jiggle the cable of the limit switch; right next to its connectors; it tripps it too
06:34 AM Stephanisk: that sounds like a hardware issue
06:34 AM XXCoder: is it normally closed or normally open?
06:34 AM Stephanisk: just have a really good look at the wires
06:34 AM Frank_10: is the vibration from the machine opening the contactos?
06:34 AM Frank_10: its nc
06:34 AM XXCoder: wires may have break in it
06:35 AM Frank_10: before i thought they were the cables
06:35 AM Stephanisk: thinking the same
06:35 AM XXCoder: connector may be loose
06:35 AM Frank_10: and i changed them
06:35 AM Frank_10: re soldered
06:35 AM Frank_10: the ambient is full of dust
06:35 AM Stephanisk: than something inside the switch is fawlty
06:35 AM Frank_10: is that a problem with micro switches
06:35 AM Frank_10: ??
06:35 AM Stephanisk: dust is not the greatest thing on a switch it might get stuck
06:36 AM Frank_10: whats funny is that when i jiggle a little bit the cables from the switch it opens the circuit
06:36 AM Stephanisk: i have had that aswell, it just kept giving switch on signal
06:36 AM Stephanisk: cleaned it perfectly workd again
06:36 AM Frank_10: but the z axis switxhes NEVER trip
06:36 AM Stephanisk: if the switch itself is dirty that might be the problem, look inside of it
06:36 AM Stephanisk: and trip it manually a few times a litte hard
06:36 AM Frank_10: they are small and full plastic
06:37 AM Stephanisk: trip it with your finger nails
06:37 AM Frank_10: cant open them without totallity
06:37 AM Stephanisk: so that any residual dust will be gone
06:37 AM Frank_10: finger nails??
06:37 AM Stephanisk: trip the switch
06:37 AM Stephanisk: manually a few times
06:37 AM Frank_10: i do that to clean the contacts
06:38 AM Frank_10: but it doesnt solve
06:38 AM Frank_10: the problem
06:38 AM Stephanisk: i mean tripping the contacts indeed
06:38 AM Stephanisk: than maybe just a problem with the switch itself
06:38 AM Frank_10: yes
06:38 AM Frank_10: i know
06:38 AM Stephanisk: change it for another one and see if the problem happens still
06:39 AM Stephanisk: but if moving the cables makes it happen your problem is surely around the switch and nothing else
06:39 AM Stephanisk: just replace
06:39 AM Frank_10: okey.. will try
06:39 AM Frank_10: thanks
06:40 AM Stephanisk: your welcome
06:42 AM jthornton: Stephanisk: this works for me https://helpdeskgeek.com/linux-tips/easiest-way-remotely-connect-linux-mint-os/
06:44 AM jthornton: now to figure out how to make it work on the pi
06:48 AM IchGucksLive: hi al from a realy sunny germany
06:49 AM XXCoder: hey from really windy tacoma
06:49 AM XXCoder: power issues a little :( blackout might mean I can be late for wor
06:50 AM jthornton: cool I vnced into the pi from my windblows pc
06:50 AM XXCoder: use windows win the blows
06:51 AM * jthornton has never seen the pi desktop lol until now
06:51 AM XXCoder: lol nice
06:55 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: why does the new user need 2.8
06:55 AM XXCoder: dunno guy wanted 2.8?
06:55 AM IchGucksLive: or only dod he went with non wheezy
06:56 AM IchGucksLive: Stephanisk: are yu still online
06:58 AM Stephanisk: yes i am
06:58 AM IchGucksLive: Stephanisk: hi im in germany WHY do you need the 2.8
06:58 AM Stephanisk: reading through it
06:59 AM IchGucksLive: it is a simple way to download the dvd
06:59 AM jthornton: Stephanisk: did you get vnc working?
06:59 AM IchGucksLive: install it and work within 1hr
06:59 AM Stephanisk: at thornton: i tried this, only debian stretch doesnt have the remote desktop. grrrrrr.....
06:59 AM Stephanisk: no didnt get it working yet
06:59 AM Stephanisk: IchGucksLive: well i am using it because i have a gantry machine XYYZ
07:00 AM Stephanisk: and linux 2.8 is the first version to fully support 2 stepgens synchronized motion
07:00 AM Stephanisk: the change from axis to full joints appointed to an axis
07:00 AM Stephanisk: it works fine, ( at least here on my desk with a test setup )
07:01 AM Stephanisk: meanwhile for my vnc i am looking up how to get remote desktop on a debian machine
07:01 AM Stephanisk: :)
07:02 AM sync: jthornton: obviously it is a regular terminal
07:02 AM sync: you need to run something that wants X in it
07:02 AM jthornton: ah ok
07:02 AM IchGucksLive: Stephanisk: so you realy need the gantry homing
07:02 AM sync: and it will magically appear on your screen
07:02 AM IchGucksLive: Stephanisk: the standard DVD 2.7.9 will also run a gantry
07:03 AM jthornton: but does not have gantry homing
07:03 AM IchGucksLive: i even run full plasma gantrys on 2.4.5
07:04 AM IchGucksLive: i home standard to one switch
07:04 AM IchGucksLive: press F2 and do manuell correction if needed
07:04 AM Stephanisk: that is probably exactly true
07:04 AM IchGucksLive: on steppers it is ok
07:05 AM IchGucksLive: with the new hybrid setups it is better to use gantry homing feature
07:05 AM Stephanisk: it is just i went on a training course and we switched to the dev version for this, so now i want to continue to work on this one
07:05 AM Stephanisk: there is no other particular reason for it, except my hal file we build overthere is made for the 2.8 and i ofcourse want to continue on this file
07:05 AM IchGucksLive: Stephanisk: this is my youtube lcnc channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
07:06 AM Stephanisk: all my examples are on it
07:06 AM Stephanisk: first i found a manual for vnc on debian jessie, so i hope that it works on debian stretch
07:06 AM Stephanisk: let me give it a try
07:07 AM jthornton: looks like debian is a bit more of a challenge to set up vnc
07:07 AM IchGucksLive: ok then im out of discussion
07:08 AM IchGucksLive: till later
07:16 AM Stephanisk: jihaa
07:16 AM Stephanisk: got it to work thornton
07:16 AM Stephanisk: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-a-remote-desktop-with-x2go-on-debian-8
07:16 AM Stephanisk: i skipped step 1 and 2 : didn't want to mess with it
07:17 AM Stephanisk: just step3 where i changed following line : deb http://packages.x2go.org/debian jessie main' | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/x2go.list
07:17 AM Stephanisk: to debian stretch main
07:17 AM Stephanisk: and than did step4 on the windows computer
07:17 AM Stephanisk: worked perfectly
07:17 AM Stephanisk: now testing if it does after a reboot
07:18 AM Stephanisk: and without logging in on the linux pc
07:20 AM Stephanisk: so i am going to leave you all for the afternoon, cause i need to reboot
07:20 AM Stephanisk: special thanks to you all to help me set up the 2.8 on my machine and getting vnc working!!!!
07:21 AM Stephanisk: have a great day everyone
08:42 AM jym: cradek: Sorry to bug, but have you ever passed a variable to a ps file from the shell? Example: imagmagick my.ps < mytext or something like that?
08:43 AM * archivist whacks jym with the ps manuals
08:44 AM jym: archivist: I don't even know if it's doable (ccommand line vars that is)
08:44 AM jym: I'm not asking how, I'm asking if it's possible
08:45 AM archivist: I would have to go and read http://www.collection.archivist.info/shelfview.php?src=artitle&locid=167
08:55 AM archivist: probably invoke a file with your vars first
08:56 AM archivist: or read from a file
08:57 AM archivist: books are dated 1988!
09:02 AM archivist: the terms command line and parameters are not in the indexes
09:12 AM jym: So you're saying my.ps <text.txt or something like that?
09:13 AM archivist: no, the file.ps needs to load vars from file.text
09:13 AM cradek: I see that's not a feature of gs (I looked in the man page)
09:15 AM jym: Hmmm, well while kludgy, it would be straight forward: concat generated_vars.txt + rest_of_ps_file
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: jym: ?
09:15 AM archivist: but you may be able to run two files with setting up in file one and main prog in two
09:16 AM IchGucksLive: jym: text on image position
09:16 AM jym: archivist: Yeah, not like each ps fie would be THAT big anyway, what... 20KB, if that
09:17 AM IchGucksLive: jym: c=1;for i in *.jpg;do [ ! -f "$i" ] && continue;r=$(printf "%02d" "$c");convert $i -gravity NorthWest -font 'DejaVu-Sans-Bold' -pointsize 20 -fill black -draw "text 905,1625 'Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr'" te/"$i"; ((c++));done
09:18 AM IchGucksLive: color text -fill rgb(127,127,127)
09:19 AM jym: IchGucksLive: I need to generate the ps (vector) from multiple variable text like: render.ps 'Hello'; render.ps 'Good Morning'
09:20 AM jym: IchGucksLive: basically passing variable on the command line to the ps file
09:20 AM IchGucksLive: -draw "text 83,510 '$(cat $textfile)'"
09:20 AM cradek: jym: the command run will execute the contents of another file
09:21 AM jym: cradek: is 'run' a ps command?
09:21 AM cradek: so you could put /arg1 3 def /arg2 4 def in the input file
09:21 AM cradek: yes
09:21 AM cradek: then (inputfile.ps) run
09:21 AM cradek: then arg1 arg2 lineto etc
09:22 AM IchGucksLive: why not mogrif
09:22 AM cradek: there's lots of other file handling commands but I bet run is the easiest way
09:24 AM archivist: cradek, my Lorch seems taper pin standard
09:25 AM IchGucksLive: jym: on a wildcard text you may need a bevor jeck of space so you can create a papersheet around
09:25 AM IchGucksLive: or do you use fixed pointsize
09:27 AM IchGucksLive: as i jumped in i may be totaly out of theme as always
09:28 AM IchGucksLive: till later i started my worm farm today as grrandchiles fun
09:29 AM IchGucksLive: earthworm
09:34 AM jym: https://w3-o.cs.hm.edu/~ruckert/compiler/ThinkingInPostScript.pdf
09:35 AM jym: Thanks guys, let me get my template going, then I'll work on passing the variable to it
09:41 AM cradek: archivist: ooh that's interesting
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: later
09:42 AM archivist: only 1 deg total ish
09:42 AM archivist: that zimmerman looked steeper
09:42 AM cradek: archivist: oh then yeah that's not mine
09:43 AM cradek: on various measurements I found mine is 1.5 - 2 degrees/side
09:43 AM archivist: try a large taper pin anyway
09:43 AM cradek: taper pins are 1/4"/ft
09:44 AM cradek: = 0.6 deg/side I think
09:45 AM archivist: my chinesium angle meter said around 1 deg ish
09:45 AM archivist: for the taper pin that is
09:46 AM cradek: https://www.smithy.com/machining-reference/lathe-turning/page/7
09:46 AM cradek: newbie machinist question: this photo says 1/4"/foot. does that mean if I measure the two diameters a foot apart they would differ by 1/4 or 1/2?
09:47 AM archivist: yes either :)
09:47 AM cradek: argh I was afraid of that
09:48 AM archivist: I hate the multiple ways of stating tapers
09:49 AM cradek: the first measurement I made I got a result shockingly close to 2 degrees (per side) which is what Tony guessed it might be
09:49 AM pcw_home: That's the first thing I wondered when you said 1/4" per foot
09:49 AM cradek: but ... I kept measuring and also got 1.5/1.6 degrees
09:51 AM cradek: this machining classroom pdf says it's change in diameter
09:52 AM cradek: so if that is right, it would differ by 1/4
09:54 AM archivist: that smithy table does not agree with a new taper pin I have here size 0 mine being 2" long
09:54 AM cradek: so atan(1/8 * 1/12) = 0.6 degrees/side
09:55 AM cradek: hm what do you measure?
09:55 AM archivist: this is .114 thin.155 thick 2.03 long
09:57 AM cradek: that's 0.58 degrees/side
09:57 AM cradek: .242"/ft
09:57 AM cradek: seems pretty close to me
09:57 AM gloops: well, this old yank drill i bought is sound
09:58 AM archivist: 1.16 deg according to online calculator
09:58 AM archivist: http://www.magafor.com/841/uk.htm
09:58 AM cradek: wait what are you measuring in degrees?
09:59 AM archivist: total angle
09:59 AM cradek: I think degrees is what you'd set the compound to to make it (degrees between one edge and centerline)
09:59 AM cradek: yes total angle would be 1.16
10:02 AM cradek: so I think I need about 3x that angle for mine
10:05 AM JT-Shop: pcw_home: can you switch a device that needs grounding to turn on?
10:08 AM archivist: cradek, next size up taper I have is in the hobbing machine, that is 2.48 deg total
10:10 AM cradek: close but still not quite enough, I think it should be in the range of 3.5-4
10:10 AM skunkworks: cradek, I have found - measuring tapers - find 2 different size drill bushings that fit the taper - then measure the distance.
10:10 AM cradek: #0 and #1 taper pins would definitely wedge in there but I think wouldn't contact much of the taper
10:11 AM skunkworks: or a hole - 2 different pins and measure the difference between the depth
10:11 AM cradek: skunkworks: yeah I should try pins
10:12 AM cradek: balls and a depth micrometer would work better (but give slightly harder math)
10:12 AM skunkworks: heh
10:12 AM cradek: but I don't have good balls that small
10:12 AM cradek: ... or a depth micrometer, come to think of it
10:13 AM cradek: since it slides in the tailstock I was able to put a test indicator on the taper and a travel indicator on the knob and slide it
10:13 AM cradek: moving it 0.1 the taper would change 0.0035 ish
10:14 AM cradek: = 2.00 degrees
10:14 AM cradek: but then later it looked more like 0.003
10:14 AM cradek: = 1.72 degrees
10:14 AM skunkworks: measuring is hard
10:14 AM archivist: measuring keeps you entertained
10:15 AM cradek: I was probably not measuring the taper right on the centerline
10:15 AM cradek: your scheme fixes that problem
10:15 AM cradek: I will try it tonight
10:15 AM archivist: you need a miniature conimeter
10:16 AM archivist: or a cmm!
10:18 AM cradek: https://www.ebay.com/itm/P206-Levin-Taper-Collet-Center-Collet-Watchmakers-Lathe-8mm-ww-NICE/263315522984
10:18 AM cradek: sure seems like these might match
10:18 AM cradek: it might be fairly standard, who knows
10:18 AM pcw_home: JT-Shop most of our output devices are sourcing (7I84,7I76,7I79E,7I77)
10:18 AM pcw_home: but 7I72 is sinking, and 7I37TA and 7I96 outputs can source or sink
10:18 AM pcw_home: I do have some new 7I76,7I76E,7I77,7I84 versions with sinking outputs that will be available soon
10:19 AM skunkworks: pcw_home, did you ever make a card to read my accugage scales? ;)
10:19 AM pcw_home: 7I64 also has uncommited outputs so can source or sink
10:20 AM pcw_home: too many projects...
10:20 AM archivist: cradek you dont want the new price http://levinlathe.com/page26.htm
10:23 AM cradek: waiiiit a second
10:23 AM cradek: I have a headstock center that looks like a collet with a point sticking out
10:23 AM cradek: I wonder if that ... comes out
10:24 AM cradek: it sure looks like one piece, but this auction shows a "taper collet"
10:24 AM archivist: which is what levins own site states
10:24 AM cradek: archivist: wow those prices are truly insane
10:25 AM cradek: I'll give it a tap from the back and see if it pops out
10:25 AM archivist: I did wonder if you would fall off your chair
10:25 AM cradek: would be embarrassing
10:32 AM archivist: that one on ebay is cheap enough to snap up
10:42 AM cradek: yeah but it's an auction :-/
10:48 AM gloops: and i got some plates, probably give myself 7/10 for these https://postimg.org/image/52kjbatjv/
10:49 AM JT-Shop: pcw_home: thanks
10:49 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: yay
10:50 AM gloops: https://postimg.org/image/tj2p5zccr/04f530a6/
10:50 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: Is that plywood?
10:50 AM gloops: nah, 10mm plate mould
10:51 AM gloops: easy and quick, after you work a few things out, not perfect by any means but okish
10:52 AM roycroft: i just got a bunch of er20 collets
10:52 AM roycroft: they are very small and very springy
10:53 AM gloops: at least they are springy roy, i bought one - needed a fraction off the length, i put it oh so gently in the lathe chuck - it stayed closed lol
11:08 AM JT-Shop: pcw_home: the 7i84 is the same as the 7i64 except less I/O?
11:09 AM JT-Shop: err different I/O
11:10 AM JT-Shop: never mind I see it's a sourcing card
11:30 AM pcw_mesa: The 7I64 has 24 outputs that are all individual isolated switches so can sink or source and source from various voltages
11:30 AM pcw_mesa: But are awkward because you need 2 wires per output
11:30 AM Contract_Pilot: pcw_mesa
11:31 AM pcw_mesa: ( its inputs are the same, flexible but more wiring )
11:32 AM pcw_mesa: Hi Contract_Pilot
11:36 AM JT-Shop: thanks
11:37 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:43 AM ziper: should i be worried about my donor piston and rod not being balanced with the rest of the rotating assembly?
11:45 AM sync: are you spinning it higher than stock?
11:47 AM ziper: no
11:47 AM sync: then it will be fine
11:48 AM sync: but you need to measure your clearance on the big end
11:48 AM miss0r: Goodevening
11:48 AM ziper: measure the clearance how?
11:51 AM sync: plastigauge
11:52 AM ziper: ok, thanks
12:11 PM Contract_Pilot: Sent you message PCW-mesa
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: i got more then 200 emails today from YT its getting worse as 100k klicks
12:24 PM gloops: any pay per click Ichs?
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: no all free
12:25 PM gloops: should be making something from ads?
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: im paid by the GOVC
12:31 PM gloops: ahh i see
12:33 PM gloops: best thing to use on the bottom of gantry uprights, to fit bearings to? ive got some 2x2 angle iron
12:34 PM archivist: black or proper stuff
12:34 PM archivist: black, bdms or bed iron
12:34 PM gloops: only the finest quality
12:35 PM gloops: about 6mm thickness, i cant see that bending over a few inches
12:35 PM archivist: something the cat dragged in?
12:35 PM gloops: ive been saving this for a good job
12:36 PM archivist: flatness on the face you bolt stuff
12:36 PM gloops: not a problem
12:36 PM gloops: also using round rails - no alignment issues of that nature
12:42 PM Tom_L: hmm, busy morning here today
12:42 PM gloops: Y rails will be bolted to uprights in slots, there is no way i can weld the upright and the foot dead square, adjustable foot - too much trouble
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: did someone already used this new Brackets M335
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: Did someone already use this new Brackets M335
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: sorry scoled up
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: seams that tq now went into leadshine blocks
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: only the 6560 nema17 got the declay modes
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
03:17 PM Simonious: https://photos.app.goo.gl/kfiE7HTVvnSYRqUx1 we are thinking about selling this
03:40 PM Contract_Pilot: Back Pack Blowing after pool let go.
03:41 PM XXCoder: Simonious: not using anymore?
03:41 PM Contract_Pilot: Anyone here a tormach Slant pro Owner
03:42 PM Simonious: XXCoder: we use it relatively rarely and the z-axis has been faulting now and then. We are thinking about replacing it with a machine that takes up less space.
03:42 PM Simonious: I tore down the wiring this morning and reseated everything, cleaned things up a little and it hasn't faulted since, if it keeps running good this time we will probably end up keeping it
03:43 PM Simonious: it's just that it requires a little TLC that we'd never notice if we used it more, but we notice how much TLC it needs when we only use it once in a while.
03:43 PM Simonious: It IS running linuxCNC
03:43 PM XXCoder: too bad no room here and probably long haul to here lol
03:44 PM Simonious: Centralish Minnesota
03:44 PM Tom_L: so use it more. it just want's love
03:44 PM Simonious: If we do decide to sell it, I'm certainly considering buying it and putting it in my garage.
03:45 PM Simonious: I think I'd tear every wire off of it and start over. Mechanically it's fine.
03:45 PM XXCoder: wires do have bend rating
03:45 PM Tom_L: how old is it?
03:45 PM Simonious: I might run it open loop instead of paying attention to servo feedback..
03:47 PM Simonious: uh.. I don't know how old it is, more than 3 years..
03:47 PM Tom_L: i'm somewhat of the opinion, if it works.. don't fix it
03:47 PM Simonious: oh.. it's closer to 10 years old, the guy who knows isn't here.
03:47 PM Simonious: Tom_L: I agree, but the Z-axis has been faulting out semi regular lately
03:47 PM Simonious: now that I've just gone through it and reseated things and removed some wild hair it's done 3 runs in a row with no problems.
03:51 PM Contract_Pilot: Tormach tech Support said PP 2.0 should be public in a couple weeks whoo hoo
03:55 PM Deejay: gn8
03:57 PM mozmck: Simonious: I recognize the controller on that router :-)
03:58 PM Simonious: mozmck: not inside.. it's running linuxCNC and we tore off the plasma torch a few years ago, so it's a hacked up thing now
03:58 PM Simonious: I mean.. it's mostly stock, but not quite original
03:58 PM Simonious: The whole table is for wood now
03:58 PM mozmck: Yeah, I can tell. I probably built that originally.
03:59 PM mozmck: I'm glad it's running LinuxCNC now!
05:08 PM andypugh: I wonder what this actually is? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Move-Moving-TM-Rectangle-Boring/dp/B01EOILW32/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1510700804&sr=8-11&keywords=boring+bar+18mm
05:09 PM malcom2073: for that price, it's almost worth buying just to find out haha
05:12 PM hazzy: LOL, I think whoever listed that is a bit confused ...
05:12 PM pcw_mesa: looks like right angle edge connectors
05:12 PM hazzy: yep
05:14 PM hazzy: The Move&Moving(TM) tool bits I have used looked a little different than those :D
05:45 PM Tom_L: wrong pic / description
05:46 PM Tom_L: description sounds like a cutoff blade
06:01 PM Tom_L: andypugh what were those botched castings for?
06:11 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop do you happen to know what belt series would have 3/8" bore?
06:12 PM Tom_L: seems all the HTD i look for are too small or too big
06:16 PM Tom_L: once you get over 24 teeth it jumps to 3/8 but then the center distance is over 2x the desired
06:18 PM Tom_L: and the larger pulley is .500 bore
06:18 PM andypugh: Tom_L: https://photos.app.goo.gl/IxbDozbQw1oqHT4a2
06:19 PM Tom_L: ahh yeah i remember seeing that
06:19 PM Tom_L: is there a gib in there somewhere?
06:19 PM andypugh: I managed to use a combination of tigid-tapping and a sacrifiicial bit on top to tap the partial holes enough to take a bolt.
06:21 PM andypugh: I don’t seem to have a picture, but the two bars with nuts have a doevtail slot in them so that tightening the nuts clamps it all solid.
06:21 PM Tom_L: i suppose you don't really need one since it's not moving
06:21 PM andypugh: Indeed, it is just an adjustable clamp.
06:59 PM Tom_L: ok if i go with the XL series i can find it but i was hoping for the 'rounded' tooth style belts
06:59 PM andypugh: Why?
06:59 PM Tom_L: less slipage
06:59 PM andypugh: (I normally end up using metric T-series belts)
06:59 PM Tom_L: more surface contact thru the entire circle
07:00 PM Tom_L: i'll probably end up with the XL series
07:00 PM Tom_L: 2 3/8" bore and take one out to 10mm
07:03 PM pfred1: I'm rather partial to chromed double roller chain myself
07:03 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Stepper_mounts.jpg
07:03 PM Tom_L: for the Z axis
07:04 PM Tom_L: either that or i'll flip the stepper up and direct drive it
07:04 PM Tom_L: i think i should do a 2:1 or 3:1 reduction on Z though
07:04 PM pfred1: ain't it kewl? https://www.cjponyparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/c/tcgs7_1.11.jpg
07:05 PM djdelorie: Tom_L: I have a similar setup on my cnc, but ended up printing plastic gears: http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/img_3401.html
07:05 PM pfred1: hey DJ
07:05 PM djdelorie: hey
07:05 PM pfred1: you one of them 3D printer types now?
07:06 PM djdelorie: Anything that can make more parts or tools for me to play with :-)
07:06 PM pfred1: I'm so excited i just got FreeCAD 17-pre to build and run on my PC
07:06 PM pfred1: the last time i built it the stuff would just seg fault and go poof
07:06 PM djdelorie: I either use openscad (hey, I'm a programmer) or Fusion on a laptop
07:06 PM Tom_L: dunno if i wanna trust plastic gears
07:06 PM pfred1: it has openscad built in
07:07 PM djdelorie: Oh sure, understood, Happens to work for me, and you can use the machine while waiting for the metal ones to be delivered :-)
07:07 PM Tom_L: nice print though
07:07 PM djdelorie: thanks
07:08 PM pfred1: djdelorie speaking of openscad http://i.imgur.com/2WaZSmM.png
07:08 PM djdelorie: that's an XL belt on a 3/8 shaft, btw
07:08 PM Tom_L: what size steppers are those?
07:08 PM Tom_L: really?
07:09 PM Tom_L: how wide is the belt? 3/8"?
07:09 PM djdelorie: yeah, I know that trick. I emboss my initial on everything now :-) http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/img_3334.html
07:09 PM djdelorie: Tom_L: NEMA 34
07:09 PM Tom_L: beefy
07:09 PM Tom_L: mine are 23 but 570 in oz
07:09 PM Contract_Pilot: Andy...
07:09 PM djdelorie: got some free BLDC servos (that's a servo)
07:09 PM Tom_L: even nicer
07:10 PM djdelorie: had to reverse engineer them without specs, and build a driver board, but they worked great until I broke one of the boards
07:10 PM djdelorie: I've got nema34 steppers in there for the moment until I can design new boards
07:10 PM pfred1: butter fingers
07:10 PM djdelorie: actually, butter screws. A loose power coupling, fast stop on the cnc, EMI backfeed with nowhere to go... blam.
07:11 PM andypugh: pfred1: You think that you are joking about the chain, but:
07:11 PM andypugh: EXPORT_SYMBOL(kinematicsType);
07:11 PM andypugh: EXPORT_SYMBOL(kinematicsInverse);
07:11 PM andypugh: EXPORT_SYMBOL(kinematicsForward);
07:11 PM andypugh: Oops
07:11 PM pfred1: I had one of my motor connection get loose on me
07:11 PM andypugh: I meant: https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTSn2KmLaQEAhnfG2
07:11 PM Tom_L: andypugh, well at least we know what you're working on :)
07:11 PM pfred1: andypugh chain drive is popular with CNC
07:11 PM djdelorie: Tom_L: I got the biggest steppers I could, so that I could use them anywhere in the future, only to discover that bigger means slower :-(
07:12 PM pfred1: chain is tough stuff
07:12 PM Contract_Pilot: GM wants their timing chain back
07:12 PM SpeedEvil: djdelorie: differential and a smaller stepper with a brake.
07:12 PM Tom_L: chain probably has more drag than belt too
07:12 PM Contract_Pilot: Hows the backlash
07:12 PM djdelorie: SpeedEvil: well, "fix the servo drive" is the real solution :-)
07:13 PM SpeedEvil: :)
07:13 PM pfred1: djdelorie it is the inductance that determines the speed of a motor
07:13 PM andypugh: It’s actually Yamaha R1 timing chain. And there isn’t any backlash because it’s inverted-tooth.
07:13 PM djdelorie: pfred1: yup
07:13 PM pfred1: you can get big fast motors but they're not common
07:14 PM djdelorie: well, the servos are 1/3 HP and 335 oz-in peak, but can go up to 3000 RPM :-)
07:14 PM pfred1: I had my machine running at 2,000 RPM
07:14 PM pfred1: but i burned up a lead nut on it doing that
07:15 PM pfred1: I was having fun at the time though
07:15 PM Contract_Pilot: Andy belt here... http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/53AA3601-6AE2-4DF9-9C19-56144AF6567F-e1510708526416-768x1024.jpeg
07:16 PM pfred1: fastest drawer slide CNC machine in the east
07:16 PM djdelorie: when I reinstall the servos, I'll redo the Y axis with a 1610 drive screw instead of the 10 TPI one I had before, the RPM limit was the whipping of the screw
07:16 PM Contract_Pilot: nema32
07:16 PM Contract_Pilot: 34
07:17 PM djdelorie: if I use the servos with the belt drive I have now, it could go... 400 mm/sec ? no thank you ;-)
07:17 PM pfred1: yup lead whip will get you
07:17 PM pfred1: the trick is make your leads as short as you can
07:17 PM djdelorie: I did some testing over the weekend, it seems solid at 40 in/min and usable at 60, in wood
07:17 PM djdelorie: well, it's a 1 meter lead
07:18 PM djdelorie: and small diameter. Free, but small
07:18 PM pfred1: I mounted my motors inboard on the machine with brackets
07:18 PM djdelorie: a 1610 is much more appropriately sized for it
07:18 PM pfred1: as opposed to just putting them on the outside of the frame which tends to be easy
07:18 PM djdelorie: mine too: http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/img_3394.html
07:19 PM djdelorie: but mostly because I had a box of spare gears, and no box of spare couplers
07:19 PM pfred1: but you pay for the convenience
07:19 PM pfred1: I use high pressure gas line
07:19 PM djdelorie: perhaps, but I like having the motor out of the way. The X motor is outboard, and I'm constantly bumping into it
07:20 PM pfred1: it goes with the whole cheap crap aesthetic
07:20 PM djdelorie: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2527.html
07:20 PM djdelorie: it's my favorite aesthetic :-)
07:21 PM pfred1: djdelorie you ever see my new remote control box I made?
07:21 PM djdelorie: probably not?
07:22 PM andypugh: I make my toothed-belt pulleys the old-fashioned way: https://youtu.be/ltmZrDrt6pQ?t=1m24s
07:22 PM pfred1: it's in this picture http://i.imgur.com/KXrsIpm.jpg
07:22 PM pfred1: I call it Mr. Remoto
07:22 PM djdelorie: andypugh: gear making tooling is next on my "when I have the money" list
07:22 PM pfred1: because on edge it sort of looks like a face
07:23 PM djdelorie: Cool. I have a z-probe I call "Mr Meany Face" for the same reason
07:23 PM SpeedEvil: djdelorie: how hard can it be, they're just unreasonably expensive tiny chunks of metal. :)
07:23 PM pfred1: Mr. Remoto on the workbench http://i.imgur.com/lCbaRHu.jpg
07:23 PM Contract_Pilot: With the sheet metal on http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/30E7B15C-270A-4521-9E8F-213B1BFF2A40-e1510708985657-768x1024.jpeg
07:24 PM djdelorie: SpeedEvil: well, I've learned that the first time you need ONE special thing, you end up buying a LOT of support things for it too
07:24 PM pfred1: tools begat tooling
07:24 PM SpeedEvil: :)
07:24 PM djdelorie: that's the hobby :-)
07:24 PM pfred1: CNC where you turn hard earned cash into junk
07:24 PM Tom_L: is mcmaster carr related to carr lane?
07:25 PM djdelorie: so I can either 3d print a $2 pulley, or buy a $400 dividing head, arbors, cutters, etc...
07:25 PM SpeedEvil: djdelorie: DIY dividing head that works quite well is reasonably inexpensive.
07:25 PM andypugh: djdelorie: Oh, the setup cost me _far_ more than that. :-)
07:25 PM Contract_Pilot: I been working on my lathe for 3 years! only made chips with it a few times
07:25 PM pfred1: I've thought about getting a 3D printer but all I can think to do with one is make custom connectors with it
07:25 PM Tom_L: iirc carr lane is more mfg fixtures
07:25 PM djdelorie: if you have the tooling to make that... ;-)
07:26 PM Contract_Pilot: but i have a plan! I am sticking to it!
07:26 PM Tom_L: good idea
07:26 PM pfred1: Contract_Pilot the trick is to remain flexible
07:26 PM Tom_L: unless a better one comes along :)
07:26 PM djdelorie: at the moment, though, I just 3d print gears and pulleys and wait to see if they ever break. The first one that breaks triggers a metal gear setup
07:26 PM pfred1: I had plans too and abandoning them was some of the best decisions I've ever made
07:26 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, was almost ready to give up on it
07:26 PM djdelorie: also, broaches. Got to have broaches. And an arbor press. And... you get the idea :-)
07:27 PM SpeedEvil: djdelorie: what're you printing them in? nylon?
07:27 PM djdelorie: PETG
07:27 PM Contract_Pilot: But was thinking of making some gears..
07:27 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/IMG_5258-1024x768.jpg
07:27 PM SpeedEvil: djdelorie: lubed?
07:27 PM Tom_L: djdelorie print the belts too
07:27 PM Contract_Pilot: I do have the 4th axis
07:27 PM djdelorie: the big ones on the metal lathe are oiled. The little ones on the cnc are dry
07:27 PM pfred1: I like those printed drag chains I've seen people make
07:27 PM djdelorie: Tom_L: I've contemplated that, but they'd stretch
07:28 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/prints/plastic_prints.jpg
07:28 PM pfred1: stop the pring halfway through and put some kevlar string in it
07:28 PM Tom_L: that red one in the middle was printed
07:28 PM pfred1: print even
07:28 PM Contract_Pilot: I have some trag chain I could kick down to some one i need some more karma points
07:28 PM djdelorie: drag chain is too cheap on amazon to bother printing it
07:28 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what material it is though
07:29 PM pfred1: djdelorie it wasn't always cheap
07:29 PM Tom_L: djdelorie true that.. i was looking for some the other day
07:29 PM pfred1: prices are going up with Chinese stuffs too
07:30 PM djdelorie: but... a 16 tooth gear that's not much bigger than the 14mm shaft it's on... might be expensive if you finally find it
07:30 PM pfred1: our money is getting worthless
07:30 PM djdelorie: at least our technology is still worth stealing
07:31 PM pfred1: always
07:31 PM pfred1: I was just listening to Paul Ryan explaining how they're planning on robbing everyone blind
07:31 PM djdelorie: my most useful 3d print so far was this one though: http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/img_3479.html
07:32 PM pfred1: if you make less than a million a year they're coming for ya
07:32 PM Contract_Pilot: I noticed shipping form china gon way up pfred1
07:32 PM pfred1: well the whole shipping thing is a trade deal
07:32 PM djdelorie: saved me a couple hundred bucks at a locksmith
07:32 PM pfred1: get out you printed a key?
07:33 PM djdelorie: yup
07:33 PM pfred1: I busted a car key once up in the city and krazy glued it together
07:33 PM pfred1: well I didn't the idiot i was up there with busted it
07:33 PM djdelorie: disassembled the seat lock on the motorcycle, read off the wafer codes, fed that into the cad, printed a master key
07:34 PM djdelorie: once I knew it worked, I could have a new metal master key made from the codes
07:34 PM djdelorie: also printed two BMW emergency keys for a friend; both worked first time, and those are the square cross section cnc'd ones
07:34 PM Contract_Pilot: Some times i wiush i had a 3D Printer
07:34 PM djdelorie: 3d printers are their own hell, er, hobby...
07:34 PM Tom_L: mcmaster doesn't carry as many pulleys as sd
07:35 PM pfred1: I'm just not creative enough to come up with enough good things to 3D print
07:35 PM Tom_L: print all the starwars characters
07:35 PM djdelorie: I just print what I need, mostly
07:35 PM pfred1: I watch YouTube videos of 3D printing newbies there's some issues to overcome
07:35 PM djdelorie: everything for the new Y axis belt drive was 3d-printed
07:36 PM djdelorie: the southbend metric conversion was all 3d printed
07:36 PM Contract_Pilot: qtcgears has good stock of gears
07:36 PM djdelorie: a lot of the parts on the new motorcycle are (or will be, work in progress ;) printed
07:37 PM pfred1: you're 3D printing a motorcycle?
07:37 PM djdelorie: restored an antique arcade game: http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/img_3157.html
07:37 PM Contract_Pilot: Man under the knife again on monday... makes # 4 in 2 months
07:37 PM djdelorie: pfred1: converting an old one to electric.
07:38 PM pfred1: were the old gears pot metal?
07:38 PM Tom_L: Contract_Pilot, just rent a room there
07:38 PM djdelorie: on the arcade? Cast nylon
07:38 PM pfred1: ah
07:38 PM pfred1: nylon is usually pretty tough
07:39 PM djdelorie: not tough enough. We collected enough shards from the bottom of the box to figure out how to make a replacement
07:39 PM Tom_L: what about delrin?
07:39 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, well i switched to Kaiser from a strip mall clinic Doc orderd Surg ASAP
07:39 PM pfred1: isn't delrin untrademarked nylon?
07:39 PM Tom_L: higher temp i think
07:39 PM djdelorie: the blue ones are ABS but I switched to PETG for those too. I told him if those broke too, the next ones would be brass.
07:40 PM gregcnc: delrin is tm acetal
07:40 PM Contract_Pilot: Surgon said i should have been referd years ago when symptopns started
07:40 PM Contract_Pilot: But i am feeling 100% better
07:40 PM pfred1: my latest HDPE folly https://i.imgur.com/Y6WSMdL.jpg
07:40 PM pfred1: I'm not done with it yet
07:41 PM Contract_Pilot: On call for the 5th wich is my Hernia to be fixed or 20th of dec then i am done with surgon .
07:41 PM djdelorie: see, that I'd 3d print without hesitation
07:41 PM pfred1: I cut it on my scroll saw
07:41 PM djdelorie: I've done that before, with hardwood plywood
07:41 PM pfred1: how long would it take to print?
07:42 PM djdelorie: depends on how pretty you want it. Probably an hour or two
07:42 PM pfred1: that's not bad
07:42 PM pfred1: I still need to finalize my depth stop design
07:42 PM djdelorie: if you want it pretty and precise, closer to 4-5 hours
07:42 PM Contract_Pilot: I like being able to lift heavy thingsss...
07:43 PM pfred1: it didn't come off the scroll saw too precise i had to file it some and drum sand it too
07:43 PM gregcnc: hernia recovery isn't very fast
07:43 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, reason thats the last one
07:43 PM pfred1: I had my hermia operated on years ago it still ain't 100%
07:43 PM Contract_Pilot: this is umbilical
07:44 PM djdelorie: for example, this is a 2 hour print: http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/img_3471.html
07:44 PM pfred1: when the doc saw my scans he ran from me like it was contagious
07:44 PM Contract_Pilot: Spine T2 had a Cyst on it
07:44 PM Contract_Pilot: Very painfull
07:44 PM gregcnc: uhoh deal of a lifetime https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/d/custom-built-cnc-with-lathe/6382665215.html
07:44 PM pfred1: Contract_Pilot you know the last sceen in Braveheart?
07:44 PM pfred1: where they're tearing out his guts?
07:45 PM pfred1: I know how he felt
07:45 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, i say they gonna cut my bacon and stuff my guts back in
07:45 PM pfred1: I craweled into the hospital on my hand and knees
07:46 PM pfred1: on the bright side they gave me as much dope as I wanted
07:46 PM gregcnc: man mine was minor
07:46 PM Contract_Pilot: They did my spinal biopsy sent me home no drugs
07:46 PM Contract_Pilot: Just 800mg ibu
07:46 PM Contract_Pilot: I am alergic to most opiates
07:46 PM pfred1: they gave me two shots of morphine and when that didn't do it they broke out the good stuff
07:47 PM pfred1: apparently I'm somewhat immune to opiates
07:47 PM pfred1: Dilaudid is the snizzle though
07:47 PM Contract_Pilot: like the seen on hell raiser they guy on the matress get them off get them off
07:48 PM pfred1: that hospital heroin has quite a kick
07:48 PM Contract_Pilot: hahaha
07:48 PM Contract_Pilot: hospital heroin good one
07:48 PM pfred1: well that's what it is
07:49 PM pfred1: I can see why people have trouble with the stuff
07:49 PM pfred1: I felt as if every atom in the universe was perfectly aligned
07:50 PM pfred1: absolutely everything was A OK
07:50 PM djdelorie: there's a note in my file at the hospital that I fight off anesthetics really fast... ever wake up in the middle of an operation?
07:50 PM pfred1: when I'm out I'm out
07:51 PM pfred1: I had them gas me when they did my wisdom teeth I came to out of the office
07:51 PM pfred1: they were walking me aroudn and everything
07:52 PM pfred1: I didn't remember any of it
07:52 PM pfred1: which is how i like it
07:53 PM pfred1: djdelorie how come your printer prints so fast people say prints take them hours
07:53 PM pfred1: are they just printing too slow?
07:53 PM djdelorie: I use bigger nozzles
07:53 PM pfred1: ah ha
07:54 PM djdelorie: and it's a delta, can print pretty fast
07:54 PM pfred1: well your prints still look real good
07:54 PM djdelorie: it's all camera tricks :-)
07:54 PM pfred1: oh yes a delta
07:54 PM pfred1: they're faster than the cartesian machines?
07:54 PM djdelorie: for structural parts, I use an 0.8mm nozzle instead of the usual 0.4 or 0.3; with layers scaled accordingly, that's 4x faster
07:54 PM pfred1: XYZ whatever they're called?
07:55 PM djdelorie: carts can be fast, but cheap ones just aren't
07:55 PM djdelorie: the latest railcore prints stupidly fast
07:55 PM pfred1: well they look like they're moving fst to me
07:55 PM pfred1: but those RAMPS boards a lot of folks use are a joke
07:56 PM pfred1: the SMD driver chips on them can't evne push 4 Watts
07:56 PM djdelorie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULT8s9XgnaA
07:56 PM pfred1: that's real speed?
07:56 PM djdelorie: yup
07:57 PM pfred1: get out of town that is fast
07:57 PM pfred1: thing looks like it's tweaking
07:57 PM djdelorie: limited by acceleration though
07:57 PM djdelorie: on bigger prints it's faster - more straight runs
07:57 PM pfred1: yeah i keep the accel low on my NC
07:57 PM djdelorie: non-printing moves are around 300 mm/sec
07:57 PM pfred1: CNC
07:58 PM pfred1: it just seems easier on it to me
07:58 PM djdelorie: my cnc can do high accel, except the whole thing wobbles all over the place when it does
07:58 PM djdelorie: but... plywood ;-)
07:58 PM pfred1: amazing how much force is going on
07:58 PM pfred1: I made my machine out of 2x6
07:59 PM pfred1: plus on the X rails there's heavy steel angles
07:59 PM djdelorie: in my case, the gantry can revolve around the X axis quite a bit
07:59 PM djdelorie: so Y and Z moves have to be careful
07:59 PM pfred1: moving gantry?
07:59 PM djdelorie: the cnc: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2574.html
08:00 PM djdelorie: made the mistake of putting 25mm rods in 1in holes
08:00 PM pfred1: yeah I scrapped moving gantry
08:00 PM djdelorie: well, for sheet goods it's ideal
08:00 PM pfred1: it is trivial to make a fixed gantry rigid
08:00 PM pfred1: just screw that sucker down
08:00 PM djdelorie: I don't want to fling a 4x8 sheet of plywood around
08:01 PM pfred1: yeah I don't have a big work envelope
08:01 PM pfred1: but it turns out i like to make small things
08:01 PM djdelorie: although that cnc is only 26x30in working range
08:02 PM pfred1: mine is 16.5 x 16.5 X 5
08:03 PM pfred1: I don't have a stack of 4X8 sheets in my shop to cut up anyways
08:04 PM pfred1: this was the last thing I made https://i.imgur.com/jE6sdI7.jpg
08:04 PM pfred1: it is like 2 inches square
08:05 PM pfred1: I know you could have 3D printed it
08:06 PM pfred1: I didn't even make this board holder on my CNC https://i.imgur.com/BWiLc5Z.jpg
08:07 PM pfred1: I did it the old fashioned way
08:12 PM djdelorie: I had printed a model of this, but had to make it by hand for strength: http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_3275.html
08:13 PM pfred1: some kind of an optical nut?
08:14 PM pfred1: looks like ot holds a lens in a barrel or something
08:14 PM djdelorie: see two "prev" photos for it in action. Holds an A/V adapter in a car power port
08:15 PM pfred1: ah you had to cut the mold apart?
08:15 PM djdelorie: um, no?
08:15 PM djdelorie: what mold?
08:15 PM pfred1: that whole piece of plastic
08:16 PM pfred1: ah I think i see it
08:16 PM pfred1: you added this whole piece
08:17 PM djdelorie: the metal nut was turned, it screwed onto the back of the av plug to hold it into the dashboard
08:17 PM pfred1: right
08:17 PM djdelorie: I had printed a plastic version of the nut just to make sure the dimensions were right
08:17 PM pfred1: do prints shrink?
08:17 PM djdelorie: yes
08:18 PM pfred1: like when they cool
08:18 PM djdelorie: I scale mine up 1.5% if I care about precise size
08:18 PM pfred1: so you have to make the model bigger
08:18 PM djdelorie: you can do it in the slicer
08:18 PM djdelorie: but I typically do it in the model, since it's trivial in openscad
08:18 PM pfred1: just a scale dialog box
08:19 PM djdelorie: yup
08:19 PM pfred1: I got PC on the brain I need to upgrade
08:20 PM SpeedEvil: they also warp, which is harder and more difficult to deal with
08:20 PM pfred1: I was running pycam and it took my machine like 8 hours to generate a tool path
08:20 PM djdelorie: yup
08:20 PM pfred1: http://i.imgur.com/Hj9r67a.jpg
08:21 PM djdelorie: you used 3d path for a 2.5d part?
08:21 PM pfred1: that's when I began to feel a need for speed
08:21 PM pfred1: it's 3D
08:21 PM pfred1: thre's a floor in it with a hole in the middle
08:21 PM djdelorie: still 2.5d
08:22 PM pfred1: it's 3D to me
08:22 PM djdelorie: this is 3d path-wise: http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/109663-438x.jpg?1262739762
08:23 PM pfred1: that's 3D too
08:23 PM djdelorie: when your parts is all straight walls and flat floors, a 2.5d algorithm is usually far better
08:23 PM pfred1: in any event I still need a PC that can process tool paths faster
08:24 PM djdelorie: yeah, I never found a linux-based CAM that did all the types of paths I wanted
08:24 PM pfred1: though I think pycam can do distributed computing?
08:24 PM djdelorie: you end up choosing which cam will work best with each job
08:24 PM pfred1: I haven't set it up
08:24 PM pfred1: I still need a new PC though
08:24 PM pfred1: this one is comiung up on 10 years
08:25 PM pfred1: it's time to retire it
08:25 PM SpeedEvil: you have to hold onto PCs 10 years these days to get any worthwhile speed bump.
08:25 PM pfred1: when they get that old I start getting paranoid that it'll die at any moment
08:26 PM pfred1: SpeedEvil yeah just last year the machine seemed perfectly adequate to me
08:26 PM pfred1: then all of a sudden more and more seemed too slow
08:27 PM pfred1: even the browser seems to take too long to open now
08:27 PM pfred1: I'm just due
08:29 PM pfred1: I want to see what looks good on Black Friday
08:29 PM pfred1: or cybersex Monday
08:31 PM pfred1: SpeedEvil while technically Moore's Law is still going it really isn't with conventional fabrication
08:31 PM SpeedEvil: It died a decade or so ago, pretty much.
08:31 PM pfred1: they pretty much stripped that out at 22nm
08:31 PM SpeedEvil: for single thread computation performance.
08:32 PM pfred1: you can't really UV mask chips below 22nm
08:33 PM pfred1: something to do with the wavelength of the light they use?
08:34 PM pfred1: I think even at 22nm they have to play games with diffraction?
08:34 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
08:34 PM SpeedEvil: it's a whole pile of things all hitting a wall.
08:34 PM pfred1: past that they have to resort to other mans
08:34 PM pfred1: means
08:34 PM SpeedEvil: And even if tehre wasn't a wall, there are only several doublings left before you hit single atom gates
08:35 PM pfred1: even Gordy knew it wouldn't last forever
08:35 PM pfred1: yeah quantum tunneling
08:36 PM pfred1: what's the other issue where data can be in two places at once?
08:36 PM pfred1: that whole teleportation deal?
08:36 PM djdelorie: quantum entanglement
08:36 PM pfred1: entanglement
08:36 PM pfred1: yes
08:37 PM pfred1: at some point things get so small it gets rather subjective
08:37 PM pfred1: I hear with carbon nanotubes they can go to like 6nm
08:38 PM pfred1: if they get that tech working someday
08:38 PM pfred1: but we've pretty much used silicon up at this point
08:40 PM pfred1: in a way it is kind of good things have slowed down some
08:40 PM pfred1: I remember years ago building a PC and it'd be obsolete in 6 months
08:50 PM roycroft: computers are only obsolete when they will no longer do the work you need to do with them
08:51 PM roycroft: i use apple computers front-end machines for the most part
08:51 PM pfred1: well I can't say that but it seems awfully slow to me lately
08:51 PM roycroft: but i don't buy a new one every year like the apple folks want me to
08:51 PM roycroft: i'm a very bad apple fanboi in that respect
08:51 PM pfred1: you won't stand in line for days on end?
08:51 PM roycroft: i had my mac pro for 10 years before i replaced it this past summer
08:51 PM roycroft: i have NEVER queued up for an apple product (or any other product0
08:52 PM roycroft: laptops usually last about 5 years before they fail
08:52 PM roycroft: so i replace them more often than workstations
08:52 PM pfred1: roycroft what if we printed a Supreme logo on the product?
08:52 PM roycroft: my back room machines usually last a very long time
08:52 PM pfred1: you'd stand in line for it then!
08:52 PM roycroft: i don't know what that is
08:53 PM roycroft: but i'm sure i would not stand in line for it
08:53 PM pfred1: hey Pewdiepie did a video about it
08:53 PM pfred1: apparently there's even a Supreme branded crowbar these days
08:53 PM roycroft: as in Supreme Court?
08:53 PM pfred1: for when you want to be fashionable while you're prying
08:54 PM pfred1: it is a fashion brand Supreme
08:54 PM roycroft: oh
08:54 PM roycroft: i've never heard of it
08:54 PM pfred1: somethingto do with skateboards originally as i understand it
08:54 PM roycroft: my "fashion sense" is more along the lines of carhartt, eddie bauer, and ll bean
08:54 PM pfred1: Bean is awfully expensive
08:54 PM djdelorie: my "fashion sense" is limited to "wear pants"
08:54 PM roycroft: not when you buy it second-hand
08:55 PM roycroft: i usually pay about $15 for ll bean flannel shirts on ebay
08:55 PM roycroft: and i only get them when they're brand new or like new
08:55 PM pfred1: hit the right thrift store on bag day and yo ucan get a whole bag of clothing for a dollar
08:55 PM roycroft: they last years, so it's a pretty good deal
08:56 PM pfred1: as much as you can stuff into the bag
08:56 PM roycroft: i occasionally get clothing at the local thrift stores, but they've gotten wise and are putting hipster prices on anything good any more
08:56 PM roycroft: shirts that i used to buy for $4 are now $30
08:56 PM pfred1: whoah at a thrift store?
08:56 PM roycroft: sometimes they cost more at the thrift store than they cost brand new
08:57 PM roycroft: yes
08:57 PM pfred1: the manager must be a crack addict
08:57 PM roycroft: this is at all the local thrift stores
08:57 PM roycroft: and they're not on crack
08:57 PM roycroft: but there are people on crack who buy the stuff
08:57 PM pfred1: you'd have ot be to pay $30 for clothing in a thrift store
08:57 PM roycroft: the #1 rule of thrift store shopping is never pay full retail for anything
08:58 PM roycroft: hipsters are, well ...
08:58 PM pfred1: I could see maybe if it is a leather coat or something
08:59 PM roycroft: i'll just say there are a lot of hipsters around here, and my impression is that they don't have a firm grasp of reality
08:59 PM pfred1: we don't have any hipsters here it is too uncool for them in this area
08:59 PM roycroft: but this is not something that is hipster specific, or generation specific
08:59 PM pfred1: if a hipster woke up around here they'd just start running
09:00 PM roycroft: when i was a lad, back in the early '70s, my father was working in the back yard, wearing a comfortable pair of blue jeans that he had had since college
09:00 PM roycroft: they were well worn, but still in good shape
09:00 PM pfred1: I wish I could get into my old jeans
09:01 PM pfred1: I'm not in good enough shape though
09:01 PM roycroft: some yuppie walked up to him (our back yard was facing a city park) and offered him $150 for the jeans
09:01 PM pfred1: sold!
09:01 PM roycroft: well, they weren't yuppies yet
09:01 PM roycroft: whatever hippies who had money were called back then
09:01 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that we had any official term for them other than "weird"
09:01 PM roycroft: he didn't sell them
09:02 PM roycroft: my father thought the guy was nuts
09:02 PM pfred1: 150 back then was a week's wages
09:02 PM roycroft: and keep in mind that $150 then was like $500 now
09:02 PM pfred1: I know i was there
09:02 PM pfred1: back then you made $1.27 an hour
09:02 PM roycroft: anyway, there have always been people disconnected from reality
09:03 PM pfred1: I wouldn't say that's such a bad thing
09:03 PM pfred1: those same people sometimes change reality
09:03 PM roycroft: no, but it's caused the price of clothes in thrift stores to skyrocket here
09:03 PM roycroft: which is why i buy clothes on ebay now
09:04 PM pfred1: or you could come here with empty bags
09:04 PM roycroft: it's sad - i prefer to support my local economy
09:04 PM pfred1: loads of people are retiring here and they bring all their crap then they get rid of it
09:04 PM SpeedEvil: If you can sell 5% at $30, vs 100% at $3, you may win short term
09:04 PM cradek: archivist: oh hey the tailstock center does pop out of that collet
09:05 PM cradek: archivist: I feel silly
09:06 PM pfred1: also at the end of the season landlords find a lot of stuff people leave at rental properties and they dump it at thrift stores
09:06 PM roycroft: what they do is separate the "special" clothes out and sell them at inflatd prices
09:06 PM roycroft: they still have cheap clothes
09:06 PM roycroft: but the cheap clothes are crap
09:06 PM pfred1: I know where the best thrift store in the world is
09:09 PM pfred1: it is in Boaz Alabama
09:10 PM pfred1: they get all the lost airline luggage
09:10 PM pfred1: it don't even smell like armpit sweat in the store
09:10 PM pfred1: stuff is all brand new
09:11 PM pfred1: people bought it for that trip they were going on you know?
09:11 PM pfred1: then the airline lost their bag
09:12 PM pfred1: pro tip: bring batteries with you so yo ucan check out the electronics before you buy it
09:12 PM pfred1: when i was there they had piles of digital cameras like you wouldn't believe
10:59 PM gloops: now then archivist...https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milling-Machine-made-by-Bridgeport-240v-single-phase/272932613450? this is near you
10:59 PM gloops: in fact thats within my travel zone too
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: how many oxen does it take to power that thing?
11:05 PM CaptHindsight: is the electric motor a later add-on?
11:05 PM gloops: dont be deceived by the old fashioned styling, thats a machine of great abilities
11:07 PM gloops: i bought an old yank pillar drill yesterday, literally 0 play anywhere - 70 year old
11:08 PM gloops: even the clamps on the collars ans spindle lock - like new, 1/4 turn they bite hard
11:09 PM hazzy: I have never seen a Bridgeport like that here in the states, is that a BP licensed machine made in the UK?
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: was wondering the same
11:09 PM gloops: number 1A - looks pretty early
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: I gots a series 1 and it don't be lookin nothin like that one there
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: 1A Licensed to MIll :)
11:11 PM hazzy: This is the first US BP, S# 1: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f19/79192d1371553076-bridgeport-serial-number-1-picture-american-precision-museum-p6160323.jpg
11:11 PM gloops: would have to delve a bit to find info i cant see anything from a quick google
11:12 PM gloops: i might have a stab at that if it doesnt go daft
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: I didn't find nothin on google on the 1A
11:12 PM gloops: think the pulleys on the side are a later addition someone rigged that up
11:13 PM hazzy: It is a Horizontal/Vertical
11:13 PM hazzy: Looks like it came that way from the factory
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: maybe something special for the war?
11:14 PM hazzy: US BP never made a H/V that I no of
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: WWI
11:14 PM hazzy: Possibly
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: what year was the first series1?
11:14 PM hazzy: 1938
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: did they start in the UK and then move to the US?
11:15 PM hazzy: No
11:15 PM gloops: yeah you might be right hazzy, on closer look the angle iron frame does look like it was made properly - at first glance i thought someone had just knocked it up to mount some bigger pulleys or something
11:16 PM hazzy: BP started as a foundry in BP Connecticut :)
11:16 PM gloops: the intertia from hat big pulley wheel will keep the cutter turning
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: maybe an early Chinese knockoff
11:16 PM Tom_L: what's the motor on the back?
11:17 PM hazzy: for the H spindle
11:17 PM Tom_L: in and out?
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Na4AAOSwWLBaCvbd/s-l1600.jpg vs https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Bridgeport_Logo.jpg/1920px-Bridgeport_Logo.jpg
11:18 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering if i want 2:1 or 3:1 ratio on my Z axis..
11:18 PM hazzy: Tom_L: Yes, like a horizontal milling spindle
11:18 PM gloops: motor not on it its in a basket - cant see maker
11:18 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: what pitch screw?
11:18 PM gloops: flat belts, probably PRE ww2
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: how many starts?
11:19 PM Tom_L: 570 oz in stepper 5mm screw
11:19 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Z_Axis_Pulleys.jpg
11:19 PM gloops: that big pulley is gonna weigh 60lbs plus
11:19 PM Tom_L: that's figured with a 2:1 ratio
11:20 PM Tom_L: not mine
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: speed vs torque vs accuracy
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: up to you
11:21 PM djdelorie: do you know the max rpm of the stepper?
11:21 PM Tom_L: it can always change
11:21 PM Tom_L: not off hand
11:21 PM djdelorie: that might influence the max travel speed, could help answer your question
11:21 PM gloops: most steppers max at 800-1000 rpm
11:21 PM djdelorie: depends on drive voltage and coil inductance
11:21 PM Tom_L: 48v
11:21 PM Tom_L: 5A
11:22 PM djdelorie: gloops: mine max's much lower than that
11:22 PM djdelorie: inductance is microhenries (uH) in the spec
11:22 PM Tom_L: looking, but i think it was 2 or 2.2
11:22 PM gloops: djdelorie well they might, 1000 rpm is like a very max figure to work with
11:23 PM djdelorie: mine max out at 142 RPM for example
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: whats the Z travel?
11:23 PM djdelorie: http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Stepper-Motor-Calculator.phtml
11:24 PM Tom_L: the screw is 400mm
11:24 PM gloops: for milling you dont want that much speed anyway, go with 3-1
11:24 PM Tom_L: but i haven't quite determined the actual travel
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: <400mm :)
11:24 PM Tom_L: i'm thinking 3:1 would be a better choice
11:24 PM gloops: 142 really djd?
11:24 PM djdelorie: that's what the math says, and my testing seems to confirm it
11:25 PM Tom_L: 2.5mH
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: 5mm / 3 / 400 step per rev = ~4um
11:26 PM djdelorie: Tom_L: math says 576 RPM
11:26 PM djdelorie: given that and your desired max travel speed, you can figure out what the limit on gearing is
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: per ustep
11:26 PM Tom_L: that's about 4 revs per inch approx right?
11:27 PM djdelorie: 9.60
11:27 PM djdelorie: revs per second
11:27 PM gloops: or should i say most steppers - torque begins to fall off after 800-1000rpm, they obviously may peak under that
11:27 PM Tom_L: 10 microsteps
11:27 PM Tom_L: gecko
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: 200 step / rev motor? x 10
11:28 PM Tom_L: yeah
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: so 2000 steps per rev
11:28 PM djdelorie: if you have a 5mm lead, direct drive would be 5mm * 576 r/m = 2880 mm/min or 48 mm/sec, yes?
11:28 PM Tom_L: 1.8 deg
11:28 PM djdelorie: about 120 in/min?
11:29 PM Tom_L: so around 40in/min with the reduction
11:29 PM gloops: 3-1 = 15mm per rotation, @400 steps = 0.0375mm per step
11:29 PM djdelorie: 3:1 limits you to 12mm/sec or about 40 in/min though
11:29 PM Tom_L: where you gettin 400 steps from?
11:29 PM gloops: if you use 400 steps
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: yeah thats all
11:30 PM gloops: are you motors 200 normal steps? like 1.8 degrees
11:30 PM Tom_L: i can probably live with that, it should have plenty of torque
11:30 PM Tom_L: gloops yep
11:31 PM gloops: you can increase micro steps without losing any torque
11:31 PM Tom_L: no it's set at 10
11:31 PM djdelorie: depends on what you're milling, of course. 40 in/min is *slow* for milling wood
11:31 PM Tom_L: right
11:31 PM Tom_L: but typically you're moving further in x and y than in z
11:31 PM gloops: 1600 steps = 0.009375mm per step
11:31 PM Tom_L: and x and y are direct
11:32 PM Tom_L: that could change too
11:32 PM djdelorie: ah, for z, yeah. Rapids in a drill cycle would be the limiting factor there, I suppose
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: I was gearing the motor down
11:33 PM CaptHindsight: 5mm / 3 vs 3 x 5mm
11:33 PM gloops: ahh yes, i meant to do that Capt lol
11:33 PM gloops: 1-3 really
11:33 PM CaptHindsight: just checking :)
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: we have had no fall this year
11:34 PM gloops: so at 400 steps, 1 step now = 0.004166667mm
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: went from 60-70F to 30-40'sF
11:34 PM djdelorie: yeah, we had a lovely summerwinter here too
11:34 PM Tom_L: foggy all day here
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: same
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: hit 50 today
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: and tomorrow
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: but I need to paint
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: we missed all our 50-60's days this fall
11:35 PM Tom_L: that's about what we had today
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: except for today but rain tonight and in the am
11:35 PM gloops: the magic 0.001mm comes in at 1600 steps
11:36 PM Tom_L: ok so hopefully the drive mechanisms are figured out
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: have to built a tent to weld
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: and a spray booth
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: to paint
11:36 PM Tom_L: just don't set it on fire
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: thats what automotive undercoating is for
11:37 PM Tom_L: been there...
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: when you weld the floor pans it catches on fire
11:37 PM gloops: ive got 14 10mm plates to cut drill and slot
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: and you don't see the flame with the helmet on
11:37 PM Tom_L: gloops you ain't gettin it done here
11:38 PM gloops: too early to start Tom, get the neighbours up
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: good evening and farewell
11:38 PM Tom_L: one more day and i'm outta here for a while
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: vacation?
11:39 PM Tom_L: yeah
11:39 PM Tom_L: of sorts
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: prison? :)
11:39 PM Tom_L: haha
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: jury duty
11:39 PM Tom_L: flyin south for the winter
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: good for you
11:39 PM gloops: all winter?
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: back next year?
11:40 PM Tom_L: just a few days
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: ah
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: better than nothing
11:40 PM Tom_L: i could have spent it on tools
11:40 PM gloops: last look at the sun and green leaves for a while
11:43 PM gloops: i dont mind the cold in winter at all, its the grey bleak monotony dark nights and so on that kills you
11:44 PM Tom_L: i don't notice it much when i'm working in the shop or at the cad station
11:45 PM Tom_L: later..
11:50 PM gloops: i wonder if sets of 3 bearings on a linear rail are any stronger than sets of 2
11:51 PM gloops: like would make any difference
11:59 PM Sabotend_ is now known as Sabotender