#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 13 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:09 AM XXCoder: hey
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS: how is it going
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: winter arived here XXCoder
01:21 AM archivist: gloops, think how many parcels fit in one 40ft container
01:22 AM XXCoder: here its halfway between fall and witer
01:22 AM XXCoder: gloomy constant rain weather
01:23 AM archivist: google tells me £1250 for a 20ft
01:23 AM gloops: well yes, transport is the absolute key to trade
01:23 AM IchGucksLive: fast transport
01:23 AM XXCoder: nah slow and cheap
01:23 AM gloops: the industrial revolution was fuelled by developments in transport
01:23 AM IchGucksLive: time is a issue
01:24 AM gloops: canals, then rail
01:24 AM XXCoder: china takes a while month to ship stuff to me
01:24 AM gloops: same today with information
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: from china it is somtimes more the coustom service then the trevel itself
01:25 AM gloops: im guessing it took 3 weeks to me, although a month in total with machining
01:25 AM gloops: ive had stuff in a few days from hong kong
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: why did you mashined it
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: it is a g6 mesurment
01:26 AM gloops: Ichs they machined the ballscrews
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: so it fits the standard bearings
01:26 AM gloops: £20 for 3 screws not bad - and they threw in the bearings
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: with full clamp holders you are flex in length
01:26 AM gloops: they were blank screws i ordered
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: i order also blank screws
01:27 AM gloops: i bet if you talked to them you could get lots of stuff made cheap
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: no need at all to be mashines
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: mashined
01:28 AM gloops: in a way better not machined - you have more options
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: using UCP standard and clamp rings also drill the timingbell weels
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: 16h7 on a tormach RF58 sieg weisis you name it no problem
01:30 AM gloops: for 20 though it makes for an easy fitting if i do it that way
01:30 AM IchGucksLive: even 20h7 is not a big deal
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: on 5mm pitch you are realy up with a 20/25 I=1,25 ttimingbelt system as 4meets5 in 1,25 so stepepr metts ballscrew in accuracy force and speed
01:33 AM gloops: you cant go too fast though with these screws
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: plasma is up to 8meter on 1mm hypertherm 85
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: 1mm sheet
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: the trapezional will only go to 5m max
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: on 4mm pitch
01:35 AM gloops: what diameter screw?
01:35 AM Contract_Pilot: Deposit on motors sent they will be built
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: the rack pinion goes way beond 12m
01:35 AM gloops: having use chain im now firmly a screw man
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: i use 20x4 as it fits all the good satuff no mashinesneeded
01:36 AM gloops: if i built 8x4 id go for some big fat screws
01:36 AM IchGucksLive: http://www.maedler.de/product/1643/1620/2028/2031/trapezgewinde-spindeln-eingaengig-rechts-stahl-laenge-2m
01:37 AM gloops: you look at a car jack, little 8mm screw - lifts 2 tonne
01:37 AM IchGucksLive: 28x5mm
01:37 AM IchGucksLive: or if you have a crane 52x8
01:37 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/F298C74F-0171-4DB5-9063-6EC2154FB15A-1024x768.jpeg
01:37 AM IchGucksLive: on 1,5kw servo use 70x10
01:38 AM gloops: that looks a sturdy setup ContractP
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: see the price on 28x5 2meters long
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: no extra cost at max 3meters
01:41 AM gloops: how much are they?
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: 3meters what size
01:42 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, new custom 3phase motor being made as we speak
01:42 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/9F0F83B7-E4AC-44EC-BD21-8AA51CBEAC1A-1024x768.jpeg
01:43 AM Contract_Pilot: Will be Driven by a Leadshine 3ND883
01:43 AM gloops: this is a leadscrew https://www.accu.co.uk/en/787-carbon-steel-c45-trapezoidal-lead-screws#elasticsearch_id_feature_226826=226826_628&elasticsearch_id_feature_225786=225786_629&elasticsearch_id_feature_225223=225223_644&id_elasticsearch_category=787&orderby=ranking&orderway=asc
01:44 AM gloops: 40mm 10mm lead, 3 metres
01:44 AM gloops: i bet that rattles at 5000 rpm though heh
01:45 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: see prices yourself mouse over Euro sign http://www.maedler.de/product/1643/1620/2028/2031/trapezgewinde-spindeln-eingaengig-rechts-stahl-laenge-3m
01:45 AM gloops: whats the machine ContractP - mill?
01:45 AM IchGucksLive: seams lathe
01:45 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
01:46 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: maedler does also ship uk
01:46 AM gloops: ok thanks
01:46 AM Contract_Pilot: Lathe
01:46 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: NORM parts http://www.maedler.de/
01:47 AM gloops: so the custom motor - is this for fitting purposes or have you specified torque and speed and so on
01:48 AM Contract_Pilot: Fitting
01:49 AM Contract_Pilot: Cutom Motor was Cheaper then a retrofit to somthing else
01:49 AM gloops: well thats better than trying to make adaptors and so on to fit a standard motor
01:49 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/25375B99-F4A6-4301-AD22-D49F18D476A4-1024x768.jpeg
01:50 AM gloops: thats probably an easier kind of housing than many, straight into those slots
01:54 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/80E7830E-19D7-4C36-B4A7-98A9C332E18E-1024x768.jpeg
01:54 AM Contract_Pilot: Yep
01:54 AM Contract_Pilot: X axis
01:54 AM gloops: these look pretty big servos
01:54 AM Contract_Pilot: Nema 42 110mm on Z and Nema 34 86mm on X
01:54 AM Contract_Pilot: 16NM on Z and 5 NM on X plenty
01:59 AM Contract_Pilot: The 1100 will be getting a S3 3phase upgrade also... http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ECD1C138-C592-490C-8B24-DAFD8DA1F40C-1024x768.jpeg
01:59 AM gloops: nice mill, you could be making a bit of money with these
01:59 AM Contract_Pilot: https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32010
01:59 AM Contract_Pilot: not to bad of a price includes new control board also
01:59 AM Contract_Pilot: lathe is a 12X36
01:59 AM Contract_Pilot: Ok, well 2 hours = 24 hours up for me off to bed i think i may be able to sleep
01:59 AM gloops: ok cya later
02:03 AM Deejay: moin
02:06 AM gloops: i found that my router does machine ally..in a fashion
02:07 AM gloops: with some pretty patterns
02:08 AM archivist: patterns may show what is wrong
02:09 AM gloops: yeah, ive no intention of trying to cure it, just might be useful while making the replacement, which will cut ally
02:12 AM gloops: very last go at casting some plates, i thought of making a 20mm flat bar rectangle, sit that on a machined stone slab - as a mold
02:12 AM gloops: packed round with sand
02:12 AM gloops: then ill probably buy some plates lol
02:13 AM archivist: I used plasterboard for a lead weight
02:13 AM gloops: hmm, plasterboard is very dry thats one thing
02:13 AM gloops: thats a good idea..
02:14 AM gloops: comes in 8 and 12mm i think
02:14 AM archivist: some filler to join it blowlamp for final dry and something to restrain the sides
02:15 AM gloops: you think sandstone would take the bottom? cant think of any reactions it might make, and should take the heat
02:15 AM archivist: only problem is it is covered in damned paper
02:16 AM gloops: yes coated with paper
02:16 AM archivist: or make a plaster/filler mould
02:17 AM gloops: alls i did was build a square with bricks, near the top i put 2 bars accross and built them in for the pot to sit on, made a fire inside - kept 4kg liquid easily
02:17 AM gloops: with wood fire
02:18 AM gloops: blocked round the pot with bricks at the top so the fire was blocked in to it
02:18 AM gloops: (dry bricks no cement or anything)
02:23 AM archivist: light weight blocks are probably good for this sort of bodge
02:24 AM gloops: ive got an old cast iron parkray fire/boiler, would be ideal, no real intention of doing this much though heh
02:24 AM gloops: was going to put it in the greenhouse
02:25 AM archivist: ebay vermiculite board/brick, what I got for my little kiln
02:26 AM gloops: well, i havent seen anywhere selling firebricks for years, used to sell them in the local hardware store
02:26 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bluing+kiln+PD
02:26 AM archivist: they are cheap on ebay, very costly at a fireplace shop
02:27 AM gloops: is that electric powered archivist? - costly to run?
02:28 AM archivist: uses a hotplate element and then a plate of al to spread the heat, takes about 15-20 minutes up to 300 deg c
02:28 AM archivist: so cheap to blue a pair of clock hands
02:29 AM gloops: yeah thats not bad
02:30 AM archivist: sits on top of a lump of insulated plasterboard
02:30 AM gloops: marcel was right about the flux for melting scrap, id guess 30-40% is lost as bonded with slag
02:31 AM XXCoder: clickspring blues parts quite often. guy creates custom bluing kits
02:31 AM gloops: i remember now they used to throw limestone into the furnaces round here for melting iron
02:31 AM archivist: dont need no "kit"
02:32 AM XXCoder: kit isnt right word, guy dont sell em
02:32 AM archivist: traditional clockmakers use heat not chemicals
02:32 AM XXCoder: umm custom tools?
02:32 AM archivist: its just a tray of heated sand
02:32 AM gloops: cant use a flame? like tempering
02:33 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhjiIPohUyw
02:33 AM archivist: with a flame you wont get consistency
02:34 AM archivist: have to get the whole item within a couple or three degrees
02:34 AM XXCoder: I see you didnt see video
02:34 AM archivist: I cannot see any vids at the moment
02:34 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2002/2002_09_18_Wheelcutting/P9190292.JPG
02:34 AM XXCoder: ahh yes
02:35 AM XXCoder: he uses what looks like brass box with brass shavings in it
02:35 AM XXCoder: its heated from below
02:35 AM XXCoder: so steel clock hands blue
02:35 AM gloops: they do look nice
02:35 AM archivist: we used brass shavings at the clockworks on an old cooker hotplate
02:36 AM XXCoder: nice green flame lol
02:36 AM XXCoder: he uses some chemical to protect hands when heating to cherry red
02:36 AM XXCoder: then drops in oil? to clean it off
02:36 AM archivist: the one at work was a pain due to open air and drafts
02:37 AM gloops: they do some kind of blackening treatment with oil too
02:37 AM archivist: that clock part was my examination piece
02:38 AM gloops: someone round here was making garden fires with old gas bottles, couldnt get anything to paint them that coould take the heat
02:39 AM Loetmichel: emamel?
02:39 AM Loetmichel: should wok, it being glass basically
02:40 AM Loetmichel: work
02:40 AM archivist: loet speeling like ich now :)
02:40 AM archivist: enamel
02:40 AM Loetmichel: jup
02:40 AM XXCoder: guy blues hands twice, firs heat to blue, then strip using stones and fine sandpaper, then clean and blue again, this time for looks
02:41 AM Loetmichel: <- has to reach around the hot "rain gutter" soldering iron at the moment... please exuse some spelling errors..
02:41 AM archivist: I learned from the upper grade clockmaker, only once
02:42 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16477&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- like this
02:43 AM archivist: not too tidy, pass
02:43 AM Loetmichel: <- already burned himself twice today :-)
02:44 AM XXCoder: now thats very safe
03:00 AM gloops: sorry was afk
03:00 AM gloops: he was showed how to warm the iron up then oil it - blackened it permanently
04:46 AM jthornton: morning
04:46 AM XXCoder: hey
06:01 AM Tom_L: chicken sunrise yet?
06:10 AM jthornton: chickens got up at 2:53AM
06:14 AM jthornton: hows the build going?
06:21 AM Tom_L: slow
06:21 AM Tom_L: found one mistake so far
06:21 AM Tom_L: but caught in time
06:21 AM Tom_L: bearing blocks are different on each end of the ballscrew
06:22 AM Tom_L: so grabcad'd the right one and updated stuff
06:23 AM jthornton: seems odd to be different
06:23 AM Tom_L: driven end has double bearings
06:23 AM Tom_L: and backlash screw adjuster
06:23 AM jthornton: ah that makes sense
06:24 AM Tom_L: probably won't get much done on it this week
06:27 AM gloops: seems to be the standard issue for chinese ballscrews - double bearing drive end, not sure what the theory is, maybe more rigid for the driving coupling etc
06:28 AM gloops: double bearing both ends apparently reduces resonance a bit
06:32 AM jym: gloops: cnc router?
06:33 AM gloops: yeah the c7 screws
06:33 AM gloops: not sure what Tom is using for his mill
06:33 AM jym: gloops: Have you tried one end "floating" in the bearing?
06:33 AM gloops: not sure what you mean jym?
06:35 AM jym: gloops: motor-coupler-bearing+housing...leadscrew....bearing+house but not fastened, just floating in the bearing so it spins freely on this end
06:35 AM jym: The other end fixed/secured.
06:36 AM gloops: not tried that, what does that achieve?
06:37 AM jym: gloops: It allows the floating end to move in/out freely. This could be to thermal expansion, or maybe some excess force ont he machine/body/frame being misaligned, and reduces the leadscrew from binding
06:38 AM gloops: ive ahh see what you mean yeah
06:38 AM jym: and also if you fuck up and over/under tighten BOTH ends of the leadscrew =)
06:38 AM gloops: well, i could try it, compare it to normal
06:39 AM jym: gloops: Just a thought, not sure of the context of your application as I just jumped in the middle of it.
06:39 AM gloops: i was just looking at what Tom said about his screws having double bearing one end
06:40 AM jym: Ah yeah, the thrust bearing thing?
06:40 AM Loetmichel: hihi, $me just opened the trunk of the BMW to let it dry out a bit... Why do I have THREE first aid kits, TWO additional high vis vests and THREE containers of window wash in it?? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16891
06:41 AM jym: Loetmichel: Because you are a goober, or you hurt yourself... a LOT!!!!!!!!!! ;)
06:41 AM jym: Loetmichel: whats the black thing with the accordions on it?
06:42 AM Loetmichel: wire harness from the spare engine that went in in may ;)
06:42 AM jym: ah
06:42 AM Loetmichel: also a spare ECU and a spare alternator from the old engine
06:42 AM jym: lol
06:43 AM Loetmichel: the mechanic asked what to do with the reuseable engine parts when he changed it... i said "throw it in the trunk"
06:43 AM jym: I have the EXACT same jack, except mine is orange.
06:43 AM jym: I thought mine was running low on fluid, turns out the fill screw was just loose. Didn't even need to top it off.
06:45 AM jym: Loetmichel: You need to toss in there a piece of ply/wood to set your jack on for soft ground.
06:45 AM Loetmichel: jym: good idea
06:46 AM makerman: hihi
06:46 AM jym: Loetmichel: ESPECIALLY for asphalt in the summertime, dont ask how I know
06:47 AM jym: Loetmichel: whats in the bag with the red cap? salt?
06:48 AM Loetmichel: window wash refill . soft bag
06:48 AM jym: ah, that hasn't hit the USA yet. still have hard side bottles
06:49 AM jym: Loetmichel: Love the tbalets though, they work well
06:49 AM Loetmichel: tbalets?
06:49 AM jym: Loetmichel: https://www.amazon.com/303-230371-Instant-Windshield-Washer/dp/B000FF76KM
06:50 AM Loetmichel: ah, tablets
06:50 AM jym: just drop one in and fill with water, done.
06:50 AM Loetmichel: no, i use winter fluid mostly, which has alcohol in it. no tablets possible there
06:50 AM jym: has it ever turned the fluid a"brownish"?
07:56 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
08:10 AM MacGalempsy: morning
08:14 AM Loetmichel: jym: the windhield fluid?
08:14 AM JT-Shop: morning
08:14 AM Loetmichel: no, how could THAT be?
08:15 AM Loetmichel: cooling fluid coud, but the windshield washer system is completely plastic. there is no steel to rust away and colour the fluid
08:15 AM MacGalempsy: Life is moving forward at 9ft/hr xD
08:28 AM JT-Shop: so every 3 1/2 hours they add to the drill string?
08:31 AM Contract_Pilot: Morning
08:32 AM MacGalempsy: If we are lucky we will average that
08:47 AM JT-Shop: I assume by now you don't have a bored to death driller squeaking the brake and watching the weight indicator... just a bored driller
08:48 AM MacGalempsy: he will spend the next week on the drill floor, so he is not my problem :D
08:49 AM MacGalempsy: they just kicked off the curve, so he will be up there sliding for a bit
08:50 AM JT-Shop: ah the directional driller
08:50 AM MacGalempsy: yeah.
08:51 AM JT-Shop: we only had on for 4 holes we jacked up over a mini platform... that was interesting rest of the time it was exploratory drilling in the gulf
08:52 AM JT-Shop: on one
08:52 AM MacGalempsy: it is a dynamic environment, for sure. so many different personalities to deal with
08:53 AM monkeyisl: could i install linuxcnc ubuntu 16.10 + ?
08:55 AM Deejay: dont forgett scummvm ;)
08:55 AM Deejay: -t
08:56 AM monkeyisl: sup what is it?
08:57 AM monkeyisl: somethgin like vmware?
08:57 AM Deejay: nope, for playing lucas arts adventures like monkey island ;)
08:58 AM monkeyisl: right
08:58 AM monkeyisl: so what to do?
08:58 AM Deejay: because of your nickname ;)
08:58 AM monkeyisl: right heh
08:58 AM monkeyisl: ilove the game
08:58 AM Deejay: sorry, but cannot help with your question
08:59 AM Deejay: have 16.04 here, but only with linuxcnc simulator, without realtime-part
09:02 AM JT-Shop: monkeyisl: you would have to build a real time kernel for it
09:03 AM monkeyisl: JT-Shop : is there any doucment for those?..
09:03 AM JT-Shop: looks like 12.04 is the last supported ubuntu version
09:03 AM monkeyisl: my board only support ubuntu 16.10+... ...
09:03 AM JT-Shop: monkeyisl: the forum has some good threads on building kernels for Linux Mint should port to ubuntu
09:05 AM jym: Loetmichel: Not sure. I had used "regular" (non-winter) fluid and just added a touch of alcohol to it, and I had browish fluid once. I flushed it out and no problem. Could be coincidental, but not sure how.
09:08 AM monkeyisl: is tehre anybody running linuxcnc on VMWare ?
09:09 AM jym: monkeyisl: for SIM or realtime?
09:09 AM archivist: monkeyisl, only as a sim as far as I know not realtime
09:09 AM * jym high fives archivist
09:10 AM monkeyisl: as sim u mean, i can't run actually cnc machine?
09:10 AM jym: oh gawd no
09:10 AM archivist: no realtime in a vm
09:10 AM monkeyisl: what do you mean by realtime?
09:10 AM archivist: the vm has control and can interrupt
09:11 AM archivist: also gets in the way of hardware
09:17 AM Loetmichel: monkeyisl: i do occasionally
09:17 AM Loetmichel: it doesent work for realtime though ;9
09:17 AM monkeyisl: i'm sorry what do you guys mean by "realtime" ?
09:18 AM Loetmichel: Linuxcnc needs "no delay" access to the parallel port/DSP hardware in the computer to control the CNC machine.
09:18 AM Loetmichel: thats not possible in a VM
09:18 AM monkeyisl: oh right
09:19 AM monkeyisl: but i have motion board..
09:19 AM monkeyisl: pcie motion board.
09:19 AM monkeyisl: so i'm not steppign from my pc.
09:19 AM monkeyisl: so if does simulation has like a few msec delay, i'd be ok no?
09:20 AM archivist: what motion board
09:20 AM Loetmichel: it isnt a few ms in a VM though
09:20 AM Loetmichel: it can be up to a second or so in extreme cases
09:21 AM Loetmichel: which is a bit much even if you have a motion controller board.
09:21 AM monkeyisl: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=86
09:21 AM monkeyisl: archivist : this one
09:23 AM jym: monkeyisl: Linuxcnc still controls that board, not everythng is "offloaded" from the computer to that board.
09:23 AM monkeyisl: i'm not stepping from pc realtime. i don't even trust any serialized trash can guarntee steppering motor signal when there is like 3+ axis motors are stepping.
09:23 AM archivist: the OS can be "relaxed" to a 1ms servo thread not all offloaded
09:25 AM jym: monkeyisl: Even using that mesa board, you STILL need a good low-latency computer. Adding in VM, would make that jump big time
09:25 AM monkeyisl: jym : right linsux will send gcode stuff to teh board's buffer and it will stepping .. btw gcode transfer rate is kinda like 100yrs from fpga's steppgin point of view. so i don't think there'll be a problem though.
09:25 AM monkeyisl: *linux*
09:25 AM Loetmichel: I dont know what you mean by "trash can gurantee"... i have a system here with 4 axis steppers controlled by a single LPT port in a core2 duo mainboard. and NEVER had a single step loss that werent mechanical issues.
09:26 AM archivist: monkeyisl, no gcode gets sent to that board
09:26 AM monkeyisl: rly?!
09:26 AM monkeyisl: Loetmichel : no jitters at all?
09:26 AM archivist: the motion planner is in the pc
09:26 AM Loetmichel: not enough to cause step loss
09:26 AM Loetmichel: of course it has jitter
09:26 AM monkeyisl: archivist : ahh moiton planner so..
09:27 AM Loetmichel: but less than half a step length at max speed, so its of no problem
09:27 AM monkeyisl: there isn't huge gap? what's stepper motor's frequency?
09:28 AM monkeyisl: archivist : how dose motino planner send data to fpga board? .. isn't that some pcie driver?
09:29 AM monkeyisl: planner will be waiting until there is enough empty buffer on fpag board.
09:29 AM monkeyisl: it'll be like alwasy be wiating.
09:29 AM monkeyisl: cuz fpga will be very busy with stepping.
09:30 AM archivist: there is no buffer, it is a servo cycle
09:31 AM monkeyisl: no buffer?.. h.mmm..
09:31 AM monkeyisl: wow.
09:31 AM archivist: every cycle a new position is commanded and feedback got
09:31 AM monkeyisl: archivist : u mean PPM signle what do you mean by servo cycle?
09:31 AM archivist: feeback,calc, new data
09:32 AM monkeyisl: oh feedback....
09:32 AM monkeyisl: cuz it's servo motor it checks current position? .. unlike stepper? .. hmmmm.
09:32 AM monkeyisl: is that worth it? ,, i could set like nofeedback otpion?
09:32 AM monkeyisl: i mean
09:33 AM monkeyisl: if once it's outstepped, there is no way to fix it or not worth it cuz already output is damanged.
09:34 AM monkeyisl: archivist : feedback you mean, some coordnate system like probing? or it always asks feedback on every segment?
09:35 AM monkeyisl: sounds like i have to complie realtime
09:35 AM monkeyisl: blah
09:35 AM archivist: there is feedback from the stepper hal comp to motion even though it does not come from the motor
09:37 AM monkeyisl: yea there is feedback, but i could set ignore feedback.. like 3d printer system. that doesn't ask feedback,
09:37 AM archivist: but that part is in the fpga so there is feedback to motion from the fpga when used
09:37 AM monkeyisl: oh
09:37 AM monkeyisl: brillant.
09:38 AM monkeyisl: right that's what i'm expecting.
09:39 AM archivist: I dont think you realise what I said
09:40 AM monkeyisl: archivist : what part? stepper driver?
09:40 AM archivist: no the feedback
09:41 AM archivist: the need for realtime
09:41 AM archivist: even with steppers new info must be available in time
09:41 AM monkeyisl: ok what realtime does it do? from pc IRQ? or while(1) waitig for GPIO signal?
09:42 AM archivist: the code in the pc must run every servo period with not too much jitter
09:43 AM archivist: deterministic, this is what realtime means
09:45 AM monkeyisl: yes, so what peirod is it? i don't tthat's problem any processing power, any retarded arduino 8bit even can do 3axis grbl cnc code. the real problem when i say "HI" on pc, real ahrdwoare siganle will ahve to say HI, without no delay. but tis is impossible PC like sytsem. cuz it's doesn't wokr like eletric comparator.
09:46 AM archivist: with a realime OS you get some guarantee of timing
09:46 AM monkeyisl: Yes like freertos
09:47 AM archivist: we are working with rtai and with an fpga rtprempt
09:47 AM archivist: not with vms
09:50 AM monkeyisl: ahhh... RTAI..
09:50 AM monkeyisl: some linux specific stuff.
09:51 AM monkeyisl: so i have to recompile it on my whatever version of linux?..
09:53 AM archivist: yes if you dont use the download provided
09:53 AM monkeyisl: archivist : btw if vm passtrouhg pcie drivers well, it could work but, yea no gurantee. right.
09:54 AM sync: running linuxcnc in a vm works suprisingly well
09:54 AM archivist: we have a dev using a vm for linuxcnc a lot, ONLY simulation not on hardware
09:55 AM archivist: sync, are there any docs though
09:55 AM monkeyisl: sync : hi, #winprog?
09:55 AM monkeyisl: sync : or we just met
09:56 AM sync: no, but I used to run my 7i80hd through a vm
09:56 AM sync: monkeyisl: the latter
09:56 AM sync: it works ok if you elevate the niceness of the vm process
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
10:13 AM Crom: morning from The peoples Republic of Californiastani
10:13 AM Contract_Pilot: Morning from just north of you
10:14 AM Contract_Pilot: Societ State of WA
10:14 AM Contract_Pilot: Soviet
10:14 AM Crom: Wife doesn't like snow, I'd rather be an Oregononian
10:15 AM Contract_Pilot: I am 5 miles north of Portland
10:15 AM Contract_Pilot: Well the oregon border...
10:15 AM Crom: Hillsboro?
10:16 AM Contract_Pilot: Vancouver, WA
10:16 AM IchGucksLive: crom did you contact synfinatic he is also in this republic
10:16 AM Crom: nope..
10:16 AM synfinatic: hi Crom
10:16 AM IchGucksLive: since the makershops have opend lots of CA are here
10:17 AM Contract_Pilot: Man a lot of low ball offer on ebay for my 7I76 and 7I77
10:17 AM Crom: synfinatic: I'm on I-15 in Temecula 2 miles north of San Diego county Line
10:17 AM Contract_Pilot: offers of 25-30 for the 7I77 hahah
10:17 AM synfinatic: I'm a wee bit north of you: San Jose
10:17 AM synfinatic: $5!
10:18 AM Crom: Daughter is goin to school in SC and parents in Richmond, and my brother in Walnut Creek
10:18 AM Contract_Pilot: I setting up auto decline
10:18 AM IchGucksLive: till later
10:18 AM gloops: put it on auction - pull it before the last day if it isnt hitting a realistic price
10:19 AM gregcnc: it won't be reasonable unless there are many looking two people sniping and it will be low until the end
10:19 AM gloops: probably greg, they sometimes kick in a couple of days to go though
10:20 AM gregcnc: only if the item is in demend
10:20 AM synfinatic: ok, bbiab
10:21 AM gloops: funny how people can get drawn in with a £1 start, once theyve bid they keep looking back
10:22 AM gregcnc: sure. I list in demend items with $.99 starting bids. otherwise fixed with offer
10:22 AM gregcnc: can't type demand today
10:22 AM Crom: leaving in 50 minutes for Drs appointment in San Diego
10:23 AM gregcnc: eventually it sells or get an offer I'm willing to sell at
10:24 AM Contract_Pilot: thinking somthing like this that will fit a 25mm shaft https://www.dhgate.com/product/incremental-optical-hollow-shaft-rotary-encoder/394408126.html
10:25 AM Contract_Pilot: 15mm shaft
10:29 AM gregcnc: 15mm may be a less common shaft size
10:31 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, I can always pullk the shaft from the headsock and tun it to 12mm or somthign
10:31 AM archivist: hollow often cost a packet, I found one on ebay
10:31 AM archivist: or belt to a normal one
10:35 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, have belt now
10:36 AM djdelorie: so the verdict is in: my cnc machine is so crappy that a 3dprinter-style belt drive is good enough for it ;-)
10:37 AM synfinatic: hooray?
10:37 AM djdelorie: well, I can mill at 60 in/min again, so yes :-)
10:38 AM djdelorie: it was easier than replacing the Y drive screw with a lower TPI one
10:38 AM synfinatic: awesome
10:39 AM djdelorie: and it's true to the cnc machine's motto of "use crap you have in the shop" ;-)
10:39 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea,
10:40 AM djdelorie: all the mounts are 3d printed (PETG) and I used up some spare GT2-5mm I had
10:41 AM Contract_Pilot: Where i tucked away my prox sensor http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/image-4-e1478316328661-768x1024.jpeg
10:41 AM synfinatic: i'm trying to successfully print PETG. so far, not going well
10:41 AM djdelorie: although I noticed that the latest version of Fusion360 produces so much gcode for curves that the old linuxcnc PC I'm using can't process it fast enough, and the machine stutters...
10:42 AM djdelorie: synfinatic: ask on #reprap, lots of PETG users there
10:42 AM synfinatic: good to know
10:42 AM archivist: djdelorie, use the later version of linuxcnc which has more lookahead
10:42 AM djdelorie: yeah, definitely need to upgrade that (still running 2.4)
10:43 AM Contract_Pilot: i miss irc tvfix from manu many years ago
10:43 AM archivist: hehe I still have 2.4 on my 5 axis
10:43 AM djdelorie: want to upgrade the system to quadrature instead of step/dir too, my speed is currently limited by jitter period
10:44 AM djdelorie: a pc that supports USB would be nice, too ;-)
10:48 AM Contract_Pilot: I am thinking of removing this area to get a little more travel form X axis
10:48 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/saddle-Mod-1024x999.jpg
10:49 AM Contract_Pilot: Was plannign on doing it back in 2016
10:49 AM djdelorie: that looks important, though...
10:51 AM Contract_Pilot: Nope screw just go right thru
10:51 AM Contract_Pilot: No support maybe structural
10:52 AM djdelorie: looks like a bearing holder at first
10:55 AM Contract_Pilot: My Current Encoder
10:55 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IMG_5272-1024x768.jpg
10:56 AM Contract_Pilot: WOuld like to find one that is a direct replacement
10:57 AM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/DRC-M21-Incremental-rev.pdf
11:01 AM synfinatic: US Digital makes a bunch of encoders
11:07 AM Contract_Pilot: I think this encoder is singe ended
11:09 AM Contract_Pilot: Differential i think is recomended
11:11 AM Contract_Pilot: A+ B+ Z+ I was told that A+ A- B+ B- Z+ Z- is best.
11:15 AM gloops: someone on facebook having problems with usb connection
11:15 AM gloops: is linuxcnc deliberately not using usb because of noise liability?
11:16 AM cradek: usb does not have realtime guarantees so we can't use it for the realtime parts
11:16 AM djdelorie: unpredictable timing
11:16 AM MarcelineVQ: noise? usb is unreliable because the protocol doens't have timing guranatees
11:16 AM cradek: some devices for human interaction connect to hal with usb
11:17 AM cradek: humans are not realtime
11:18 AM gloops: well it looks like hes having noise issues anyway
11:19 AM gloops: but i understand re realtime thanks
11:21 AM synfinatic: Contract_Pilot: if you weren't having problems with the single ended encoder, then may not be worth the effort to re-wire and switch to differential. mostly useful for longer cable runs, but if you've got a lot of noise on the lines then it definitely can help with that
11:21 AM gregcnc: has anyone ever seen jogging continue after keyboard keys are released? Seems to happen when I jog X or Y and Z, after letting go Z continues leading to some Oshit! moments.
11:21 AM MacGalempsy: =O
11:21 AM gloops: never known it
11:22 AM Contract_Pilot: Yea, wiring is not an issue as i am still building
11:22 AM djdelorie: gregcnc: only when max accel is set way too low
11:22 AM MarcelineVQ: gregcnc: tried playing a little browser game or navigated a text block to see if it's the keyboard?
11:22 AM Contract_Pilot: Wondering is 2000ppr is to fast also
11:23 AM gregcnc: hmm what would be too slow for maxaccel?
11:23 AM MarcelineVQ: also are you jogging by holding the button or is this on taps as well
11:24 AM gregcnc: has happened over different linuxcnc versions and keyboards
11:25 AM synfinatic: Contract_Pilot without knowing more about your setup, i can't say if 2000ppr is too fast, but in general, that's not a "fast" encoder. I've done projects with dual 10K ppr encoders and that pushes hardware a lot more (drops counts). but all my experience with encoders is for astronomy projects, not mills so take with a grain of salt
11:25 AM gregcnc: holding button on continuous jog then pressing z though i'm not sure it always happens
11:26 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: my home CNC does that as well. but only for a few 10ths of a second
11:26 AM gregcnc: ah ok
11:27 AM djdelorie: if max accel is too low, the axis starts slowing down as soon as you release the jog key, but takes it sweet old time coming to a stop
11:27 AM djdelorie: but also takes it sweet old time coming up to speed
11:27 AM Loetmichel: that could be it. z accel is usually pretty low
11:27 AM gregcnc: no discernable change in speed
11:27 AM Loetmichel: because of small motors and heavvy spindle on it with no compensation
11:28 AM MarcelineVQ: There's a few things that can cause held keys to get buffered so they end up lasting longer than you expected, typically when a computer is fairly busy, I'm not sure how to narrow down when that's OS or software for an intermittent problem, is this in axis?
11:28 AM gregcnc: axis
11:28 AM gregcnc: it only happens to Z though?
11:29 AM gregcnc: all my axes have identical settings
11:29 AM Contract_Pilot: K
11:30 AM FAalbers: all my exes have identical problems
11:30 AM Loetmichel: FAalbers: YOU?
11:30 AM gregcnc: ouch
11:31 AM FAalbers: Hehe !
11:31 AM gloops: lol
11:31 AM FAalbers: Sorry , couldn't hold myself
11:33 AM gloops: obviously - they all complained about the money going on the cnc machines
11:36 AM gregcnc: this is a pretty serious G0704 build https://youtu.be/0Rveou7oZFQ
11:36 AM FAalbers: gloops, Mostly into the drones :)
11:37 AM Loetmichel: FAalbers: no offense taken. my exes also all have the same problem... they didnt slap a ring on me when they had the chance ;)
11:38 AM Loetmichel: drones? like these? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12997&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:42 AM gregcnc: dang lunch already?
11:43 AM djdelorie: my rule is to buy my wife something before I buy myself something, seems to work so far...
11:43 AM MarcelineVQ: but the house is getting full twice as fast somehow
11:44 AM djdelorie: buy her a bigger house? ;-)
11:45 AM MarcelineVQ: darling, your geture has moved me... to a bigger house!
11:45 AM MarcelineVQ: *gesture
11:47 AM djdelorie: when we built our house and filled the basement with "shop", she said at one point "if you need more space, you can always build a barn". 20 years later, still no barn... :-P
11:48 AM FAalbers: Loetmichel, Drons that do this .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edDplYl1YoY
11:48 AM IchGucksLive: if you are married it is differend as expected :P
11:50 AM Loetmichel: FAalbers: do i imagine that or are the two trees in the first scene jittering?
11:50 AM Loetmichel: did you stabilize that video?
11:52 AM FAalbers: Loetmichel, That's jello from the camera
11:52 AM FAalbers: Because of prop noise
11:52 AM FAalbers: Camera is not on a gimbal or stabilizing system
12:10 PM FinboySlick: FAalbers: If we could transmit unlimited data wirelessly, it'd be pretty amazing to pilot that drone 'live' from the camera view.
12:11 PM DaViruz: that's perfectly possible
12:11 PM DaViruz: and i suspect the method used when that video was made
12:12 PM Loetmichel: DaViruz: only if the drone has pretty sophisticated stablizing algorithms. AND flies pretty slow
12:13 PM Loetmichel: latency over a Cellphone data link is gruesome
12:13 PM FinboySlick: It would probably have to be analog video to be pilotable.
12:13 PM DaViruz: you don't do it with a cellphone link
12:13 PM DaViruz: you do it with a analog video link
12:13 PM Loetmichel: analog video is easy
12:13 PM Loetmichel: BTDT
12:14 PM Loetmichel: but as soon as its network based and with a codec you have AT LEAST half a second delay
12:14 PM Loetmichel: wich is no fun when flying fast/close to ground
12:14 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: You can get pretty low latency codecs. If you're sophisticated enough, you can keep it within on or two frames.
12:15 PM Loetmichel: and cellphone data has another 0.5 to 2 seconds ping on top of that
12:15 PM Loetmichel: depending on how good the cellphone signal is and how much other users are on the same tower
12:15 PM Loetmichel: s/much/many
12:16 PM Loetmichel: i tried, belive me
12:16 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: LTE has pretty crappy upload capacity anyway.
12:16 PM Loetmichel: its nearly impossible to fly that way
12:17 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: enough for 640*480 with 30pfs and mp2 or even mjpeg codec
12:17 PM FinboySlick: We're testing a dedicated Huawei LTE cell in our tower right now actually.
12:17 PM Loetmichel: and i did that with HDSPA, not LTE ;)
12:18 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: With mjpeg, if you have enough bandwidth you can be very low latency.
12:18 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: only if the network dosent introduce another half second lag
12:19 PM Loetmichel: and even 0.1s lag is deadly for fast paced or low to ground/obstacles runs
12:19 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.wumpus-cave.net/2015/11/06/low-latency-fpv-streaming-with-the-raspberry-pi/
12:21 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: as i said: doesent help if the net introduces 500ms alone
12:21 PM SpeedEvil: However, you can somewhat siestep that to a degree if you are flying a local simulation of the far environment.
12:22 PM SpeedEvil: This involves a lot more computation on both ends
12:22 PM Loetmichel: indeed
12:23 PM Loetmichel: you'll have to scan the enviroment there and predict winds and stuff.. i dont see that happening anytime soon
12:24 PM Loetmichel: its easier to up the intelligence on the drone side to make it autonavigating in the end ;)
12:24 PM DaViruz: imo there is little reason to have a digital video link
12:24 PM SpeedEvil: It doesn't require predicting winds, if you have enough local control to override the wind.
12:24 PM DaViruz: well, having unlimited range in a cellular net would be one
12:24 PM Loetmichel: DaViruz: aim aid for the cam operator, NOT for the drone operator could be useful
12:26 PM FAalbers: FinboySlick, That's exactly what i'm doing . It's called FPV. First Person View
12:26 PM DaViruz: most legislature limits range pretty severely anyway
12:27 PM DaViruz: though i admit i have been in violation of said legislature once or twice
12:31 PM FinboySlick: FAalbers: Must be quite a thrill. Is it analog video?
12:32 PM FAalbers: FinboySlick, Loetmichel DaViruz , here is an example with in the corner what I'm seeing on my goggles when flying FPV . The analog signal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20CCa4fysPs
12:33 PM FAalbers: FinboySlick, Yes , analog
12:33 PM FinboySlick: Pretty darn cool.
12:34 PM FAalbers: And very addictive ! :)
12:35 PM FinboySlick: Just short of being in it.
12:41 PM Loetmichel: FAalbers: thats a lot better than my feeble attempts... i hate 10mW 2g4 video transmitters... http://www.cyrom.org/MC/sylvester1.avi same video from the (not that much better) onboard cam: http://www.cyrom.org/MC/sylvester2.avi
12:42 PM Loetmichel: (both a pretty dark though
12:42 PM Loetmichel: )
12:48 PM Loetmichel: the video quality is a lot better close by the reciver though: http://www.cyrom.org/MC/OSDTEST3.avi
01:03 PM FAalbers: Should consider YouTube Loetmichel ... still downloading
01:06 PM hazzy: Took about 15min to download here :)
01:07 PM DaViruz: my fpv videos are very unedited an dull, and i'm not sure about the wisdom in publishing them, but here goes: https://youtu.be/u2itwNUu1jY?t=671
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: DaViruz: in germany you may become visitors from aviation
01:10 PM DaViruz: same here, though i'm reasonably sure it's been too long ago
01:11 PM DaViruz: the sentence bust be at least 8 years imprisonement to prosecute after 5 years
01:11 PM MarcelineVQ: if that's true you should remove this video my friend
01:14 PM DaViruz: the video is older then 5 years
01:15 PM MarcelineVQ: yeah but can't ever trust lawmakers to not change things up on you
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:16 PM MarcelineVQ: neat vid though, feels like you're the one flying while you watch
01:18 PM FAalbers: That's so cool above the clouds DaViruz
01:21 PM FAalbers: I've only flown in and above low fog clouds
01:22 PM DaViruz: the first time i worked up the nerve to try it i was pretty awe struck :)
01:25 PM DaViruz: https://youtu.be/OHmH-zFsefI?t=503
01:38 PM FAalbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2UFNBwju_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DqAyoo8MAo
01:41 PM gregcnc: I'd have to go a ways to not be in the path of traffic to ORD to try that crap
01:44 PM gregcnc: I was working on the car a couple weeks ago on a dreary day. Someone must not have checked the weather as a twin came over the house maybe 200-300 feet heading to the local airport. Lowest i've ever seen here.
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yeah I've seen some low ones around here
01:47 PM gregcnc: you're a little beyond the end of the runway aren't you
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: and the occasional low flying black helicopters
01:47 PM gregcnc: driving by there could be exciting until they moved the road
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: other side of the quarry
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: the cell tower is probably their big obstacle to avoid
01:54 PM saunahead: please check out wirktech.com - and contribute with your talent.
02:03 PM JT-Shop: well my parts showed up with the wrong hole size... and too big of course
02:07 PM gloops: bad luck JT
02:07 PM MacGalempsy: :/
02:13 PM Contract_Pilot: Darn it that was unexpected pool burst
02:14 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/35914D72-53E4-4EE2-B11D-A69D24C0717F-1024x768.jpeg
02:14 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/A2C118B6-3C66-4D19-9104-C47A97954C43-1024x768.jpeg
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: huh, develop a new synchronized motion control software system for CNC machines for $200, count me in! :)
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: ever look at those online project boards that matches those with "funding" with tech challenges?
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: they literally have hundreds of $ in funding for projects worth 100x or 1000x more
02:18 PM gregcnc: how else will they make profit?
02:18 PM DaViruz: while on other places they get millions in funding for projects that are worthless
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: DaViruz: those are the good project boards
02:19 PM DaViruz: i'm mostly thinking of the more silly kickstarter projects
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: I still say I need an online pet food store that delivers by drone
02:20 PM gregcnc: how do they think an hour or two will get them what they want? unless they are shopping from developing countries?
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: silly kickstarter projects? say what?
02:21 PM gregcnc: rachel ray sells pet food now
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/studio-banana/ostrichpillow-loop-the-ultimate-eye-pillow?ref=home_nearly_funded
02:22 PM DaViruz: i think that is rather silly
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: for years I've been stuck with having to do that with banana leaves or pig skins, no more
02:25 PM MarcelineVQ: Personally I prefer to use wet newspaper
02:25 PM DaViruz: i've been using my eyelids, never realized there was a better way!
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: ha
02:25 PM MarcelineVQ: keeps you moist in those dry airplane cabs, got reading material, blunts sharp edges you rest on
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: raised >$1M https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2130625347/goliath-cnc-an-autonomous-robotic-machine-tool-for
02:25 PM gregcnc: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mylifter/mylifter-20-by-garage-smart
02:26 PM MarcelineVQ: gregcnc: but they already sell those in stores :X
02:26 PM gregcnc: so people actually use these?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I'm going to replace all my winches with those :)
02:27 PM MarcelineVQ: appearantly, idk where you get a garage roof tall enough to make that useful though
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: a lifter! Who knew?
02:28 PM Loetmichel: FAalbers: VERY old videos. newer ones are indeed on youtube
02:28 PM gregcnc: right last house I looked at had 12' in the garage, but not common
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: I once saw a garage with one of those things with platforms you store things on
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: wonder where they got them?
02:28 PM MarcelineVQ: having those bins and kidscar overhead is a lawsuit waiting to happen though, the bins especially given the method of stabilizing
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: thats part of the fun
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: you incorporate, win on poopstarter and go out of business before the crashes
02:29 PM DaViruz: oh, the goliath thing actually has absolute position monitoring
02:30 PM gregcnc: this looks particularly brave http://bit.ly/2AGAAii
02:30 PM DaViruz: that looks very flimsy
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: they hold each other on the platforms :)
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: what could go wrong?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: maybe I could store my machines overhead?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: give me back some floor space
02:32 PM MarcelineVQ: CaptHindsight: you surely must try
02:33 PM DaViruz: just mount the machines upsidedown to the ceiling
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: let me know when you launch the wet newspaper thing, I have a contraption to keep it moist
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: it holds liquids
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: and has an opening to release said liquids
02:34 PM Tom_L: what wild things are we dreaming up this Monday afternoon?
02:34 PM gloops: why do you want to keep the lawnmower on the ceiling?
02:35 PM Tom_L: keeps the cob web count down
02:35 PM MarcelineVQ: CaptHindsight: what'll really blow your mind about this miracel product is that you can form the newspaper into a receptacle for holding liquid in the first place
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: keeps it safely away from little people
02:36 PM gloops: unless they pull the release chord
02:36 PM Tom_L: they should learn early on
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: what size screws does the lifter thing come with?
02:36 PM gloops: yeah, just pull the ht lead off
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: Lifting Ability: Up to 100 pounds
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: oh the platform lifts 200lbs
02:38 PM gloops: well, thats less than a lot of weight training stuff they hang up, or even a pull up bar with someone on it
02:38 PM gregcnc: trusting the average homeowner to hit the middle of a stud....
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: I want to know who their lawyer is
02:39 PM DaViruz: i think it would be pretty rare to have the ceiling height to store a snow blower like that and be able to walk below
02:39 PM gloops: just doesnt seem right having that kind of stuff up there, i mean boxes of books or camping gear maybe
02:39 PM MarcelineVQ: boxes of books'll crush your spine :O
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: hmmm no business address on the website, go figure
02:40 PM gloops: things with wheels is going to be a mess about
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://mylifter.com/
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.novatek.com the whois leads to them
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: and should know better
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.novatek.com/patents.php
02:44 PM MarcelineVQ: it's always a bigger fish isn't it
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: a method to stock heavy objects overhead that will cause serious injury or death
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: stock/store
02:45 PM MarcelineVQ: if it's any consolation their media guys, http://goldmountain.media/ have some hilarious projects listed on their website
02:45 PM gloops: id rather have the hoist with the cable round the lawmower, than have it on a shakey platform
02:45 PM gloops: the bikes idea is ok
02:45 PM MarcelineVQ: such as something called Viberoll and OYO Double Flex
02:46 PM gloops: you could just put hooks up though for bikes
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/707617451 I see you hire them to run your campaign
02:46 PM MarcelineVQ: "WAMA Hemp Underwear - Protect your Privates Naturally" inverstiagte kickstarter for fraud already please US Gov...
02:47 PM MarcelineVQ: queue 'they can't keep getting away with this' meme
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: nah
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: the uhmerican dream
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/3hBqMr6UPqEt same in China, infomercials with Fat Burning Sprays
02:53 PM MarcelineVQ: with what you're allowed to put in products in china maybe it works, but your bones melt a couple years later
02:53 PM gregcnc: capt you may enjoy this https://www.instagram.com/shanghaiobserved/
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yeah you see some really funny ones there, and no they don't know what it says
02:55 PM MarcelineVQ: that guy with the laptop looks kinda cool
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: beware of the street vendors that will make a custom printed shirt for you in Mandarin
02:57 PM gregcnc: haha
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: have a trusted local proof read before you go out
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: I think it's only fraud now if you try to cheat wealthy people
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: otherwise it's just called business
03:08 PM gregcnc: anyone bend Grade 9 titatium tubing 3/8"x.016 ? Is it as difficult as I imagine?
03:10 PM MarcelineVQ: afaik titanium's edge is in its weight to strength ratio more than it's maximum tensile strength
03:11 PM MarcelineVQ: put another way, dunno hehe, but it might not be as difficult as you imagine
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: heated bending
03:15 PM Loetmichel: titanium alloys ARE pretty strong. But dont act "hardened" in any way. Meaning they bend and dont break (easily). depends on the alloy though
03:40 PM gregcnc: I'll just have to get some and try
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.eastwood.com/triple-head-180-degree-tubing-bender-3-16-3-8-in.html
03:52 PM Jeebiss_ is now known as Jeebiss
03:53 PM gloops: fibreglass is actually stronger than carbonfibre, because it bends
03:57 PM SpeedEvil: Can we have some more of them blanket statements?
03:58 PM gloops: SpeedEvil if we could save just one modern contstruction material, it would have to be fibreglass
03:58 PM MrHindsight: a fox smells its own hole first
03:58 PM SpeedEvil: wood.
03:58 PM gloops: wood isnt modern
03:58 PM MarcelineVQ: how modern, is concrete modern?
03:58 PM gloops: no
03:58 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: Just because it was discovered early does not mean it's not modern
03:59 PM XXCoder: watching flt earth presention
03:59 PM XXCoder: INSANE!!
03:59 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te48aZvh75g
03:59 PM sync: fiber reinforced concrete is pretty nice stuff
03:59 PM SpeedEvil: On the oroville dam spillway reconstruction effort.
03:59 PM SpeedEvil: Roller compacted concrete is quite a new thing.
03:59 PM MrHindsight: modern roman concrete
04:00 PM XXCoder: the slides is constant nonstop "sphere is fake!!!" over and over... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTbFvM6HYMA
04:00 PM gloops: the nazis used phenomenal amounts of concrete
04:00 PM SpeedEvil: And this structure (now completed) has filled in hundred yard deep canyons with it.
04:00 PM MrHindsight: and bullets
04:00 PM gloops: they often built near the sea - because they consumed entire beaches in their projects
04:00 PM MarcelineVQ: they also made really nice uniforms
04:00 PM SpeedEvil: you truck out very stiff mix that basically won't flow, and then you run a roadroller over it
04:00 PM MarcelineVQ: and tank bearings
04:00 PM MrHindsight: MarcelineVQ: yes, snappy dressers
04:01 PM SpeedEvil: Cost of project somewhat north of 600 million.
04:01 PM SpeedEvil: Protip - do preventive maintainance, it saves quite a lot of money.
04:01 PM gloops: yes..they did, unfortunately the bearings were one offs, you had to wait till a new one was made
04:01 PM MarcelineVQ: you can't rush perfection, which does tend to get in the way of a war effort
04:02 PM gloops: which is a slight drawback when your wheels arent turning and the pissed off russian artillery hoves into view
04:02 PM MrHindsight: but the nazis did not have to deal with counterfeit Chineseium bearings
04:04 PM Tom_L: so who's gonna be the one to counterfeit the chinese?
04:04 PM MrHindsight: if you look good you can invade almost anywhere
04:04 PM gloops: hitler would have melted them down to make sewer cover grills
04:05 PM Deejay: gn8
04:06 PM MrHindsight: Tom_L: pretty sure the Chinese already do that :)
04:06 PM MrHindsight: counterfeit counterfeit
04:07 PM MarcelineVQ: SpeedEvil: This video is lovely
04:07 PM SpeedEvil: So much heavy construction.
04:08 PM SpeedEvil: The series is an excellent example of what can be done on youtube.
04:08 PM SpeedEvil: The mainstream media covered the story by essentially asking the same question multiple times. this covered it by explaining in detail what went wrong, the state of the art in large construction, and how it's being fixed.
04:09 PM MarcelineVQ: that's all they know how to do these days, repeat, and interrupt the person answering :X
04:10 PM gloops: fibreglass would be a good dam material
04:11 PM MarcelineVQ: mymy, even the pylons holding the guard-chain on the top of the dam are nice
04:11 PM gloops: too expensive though
04:15 PM SpeedEvil: They report no injuries during construction, which I don't believe at all.
04:15 PM SpeedEvil: No serious injuries, maybe.
04:25 PM gloops: whoo, just got a second chance on a walker turner drill
04:25 PM gloops: return spring snapped when buyer went to collect haha
04:27 PM gloops: i dont suppose there are many 1940s drill return springs knocking about
04:28 PM MarcelineVQ: small enough to wind yourself?
04:28 PM SpeedEvil: bungee cord to ceiling
04:28 PM gloops: ill use it upside down
04:28 PM MarcelineVQ: talking about the quill return yeah?
04:29 PM gloops: im thinking the press lever return
04:31 PM gloops: not sure with these, where is this spring?
04:32 PM sync: in the side opposing the lever like on most drills?
04:32 PM gloops: thats what i assumed
04:38 PM gloops: the old birds taking 50 for it
04:50 PM gloops: any idea what this fitting is 'its not a internal morse sleave the chuck taps on off a tapered taper diameter'
04:52 PM gloops: thats a quill..
04:57 PM archivist: !later gloops jacobs taper
04:57 PM the_wench: will tell gloops when he/she joins next
04:58 PM JT-Shop: beer
04:58 PM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
05:02 PM cradek: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-ALBRECHT-0-1-8-KEYLESS-DRILL-CHUCK-W-1-1-4-SHANK/132145699340
05:02 PM cradek: that's quite the mismatch
05:06 PM archivist: that chuck would fit my little pillar drill nicely
05:06 PM cradek: I want one for my WW lathe
05:07 PM JT-Shop: 1 1/4" shank on that is nuts unless you need a small chuck in a big machine
05:07 PM archivist: I have a baby Jacobs on at the moment
05:07 PM * JT-Shop needs to swap this pc for the plasma pc and see if newer hardware makes a difference
05:10 PM cradek: argh no common taper matches my tailstock which appears to be 2 degrees (/side)
05:10 PM Tom_L: not mt2?
05:10 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop you still fightin your plasma pc?
05:10 PM cradek: heh no it's tiny
05:10 PM Tom_L: MT1?
05:10 PM cradek: big end is about .166
05:10 PM Tom_L: woah
05:11 PM cradek: so half the size of MT0
05:11 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: not had time to mess with it today, it works fine on Ubuntu 10.04 so I can revert back to that when I need to make parts
05:11 PM JT-Shop: wow that is small
05:12 PM cradek: it's just like these photos: http://www.lathes.co.uk/zimmerman/
05:12 PM Tom_L: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
05:12 PM Tom_L: nothing that small that i see
05:13 PM archivist: cradek he has a ww page too
05:13 PM JT-Shop: that is a small lathe
05:14 PM cradek: I emailed him (since he requested that if someone else had one) and he thinks it might be 2 degrees, but he doesn't have one to measure
05:14 PM archivist: http://www.lathes.co.uk/derbyshire/
05:16 PM JT-Shop: cut some tapers and use bluing to see if you guessed right :)
05:16 PM Tom_L: shove a tapered toothpick in and see if it fits :)
05:17 PM cradek: JT-Shop: yeah that's going to be the only strategy that works I think
05:17 PM JT-Shop: dang got a paycheck today!
05:18 PM MarcelineVQ: ohmy, now you can buy things like rutibegas and broccoli and pork
05:18 PM archivist: cradek, are you looking at this http://www.lathes.co.uk/zimmerman/img22.jpg
05:19 PM archivist: not sure I would mount a chuck on that, designed for centres
05:20 PM JT-Shop: cradek: I had to do the same thing to find the taper of a sign post driver for MODOT to make replacements
05:20 PM archivist: I wonder if it is the same as I have here on the Lorch
05:24 PM archivist: .165 to .176 ish on the Lorch
05:25 PM Contract_Pilot: Got nothing done today sucks
05:26 PM * JT-Shop listens to the O'Jays
05:35 PM cradek: archivist: yeah that's the one
05:35 PM cradek: archivist: it would be useful to have a way to hold tiny drills and just feed by hand
05:35 PM archivist: mine just has a few centres with the pusher
05:36 PM cradek: maybe I want 1/8" shank only, and use pcb drills
05:36 PM archivist: or use the collets off the headstock
05:37 PM archivist: in the derbyshire page he mentions that
05:37 PM cradek: would be cool, but they're way too big
05:38 PM archivist: I did 13 thou iirc and watching the drill flex .....
05:39 PM archivist: or was it .13mm, I remember it was microscope scale
05:39 PM cradek: .13mm is a largish pocket watch balance pivot
05:39 PM archivist: I was making a gas leak
05:39 PM cradek: heh
05:40 PM cradek: a pilot?
05:40 PM archivist: no it was a slow leak they wanted
05:40 PM cradek: be sure to point it up...
05:41 PM archivist: I dont remember what gas it was
05:43 PM archivist: have you got the combination tailstock?
05:43 PM archivist: http://www.lathes.co.uk/derbyshire/img33.gif
06:11 PM andypugh: I should have returned this porous casting.
06:12 PM andypugh: It turns out to be worse than I thought. Tap-breaking-off-in void levels of worse.
06:12 PM MarcelineVQ: nuuu :( what metal?
06:12 PM andypugh: Cast iron
06:13 PM andypugh: I got the bits of broken tap out. But now I need to figure out a way to tap the semi-holes.
06:14 PM andypugh: thread-milling would work. I might try grinding most of the flutes off of the remains of the broken tab and giving it a try.
06:14 PM MarcelineVQ: thread milling is way cool, too many holes to resort to hand-taps?
06:15 PM andypugh: Not enough hole to use hand taps
06:16 PM MarcelineVQ: oh blind and shallow?
06:16 PM andypugh: I reckon that with a thread it would hold a bolt OK, but there isn’t enough of a circle to guide a tap.
06:16 PM MarcelineVQ: alas
06:16 PM andypugh: Plan B is to epoxy a bolt head on the mating part where holes are missing.
06:17 PM andypugh: But it’s a highe-speed spindle to that’s not the preferred option.
06:18 PM MarcelineVQ: hey quick sanity check, 400 steps per rev stepper driving a 10 tpi screw, 4000 steps per inch, 0.00025 inch per step?
06:18 PM cradek: archivist: no, mine is like the one on the zimmerman page
06:18 PM SpeedEvil: MarcelineVQ: on average, yes.
06:18 PM SpeedEvil: MarcelineVQ: Will 1000 steps give you .25000 is another question.
06:19 PM MarcelineVQ: thank you
06:19 PM andypugh: MarcelineVQ: Are you sure it is a 400 steps per rec stepper? Most are 200 steps (50 poles)
06:20 PM sync: can't you still return it?
06:20 PM sync: without xraying or ultrasonic you would not have found the flaws
06:20 PM MarcelineVQ: no it's half-stepping 200 I'm mostly wanting to make sure I didn't miss some step in the napkin math that should have been obvious
06:22 PM MrHindsight: maths is good
06:23 PM MrHindsight: my grammar is not
06:24 PM MarcelineVQ: I should have started with 200 fulls steps though and then asked if it holds for halfsteps. I was under the impression that it shouldn't change things exactly but that you lose torque and so increase step miss chance at half-step and higher
06:25 PM SpeedEvil: yes and no
06:25 PM SpeedEvil: you can't miss a half-step
06:25 PM MrHindsight: http://www.machinedesign.com/archive/microstepping-myths
06:25 PM SpeedEvil: It just sits there and wobbles
06:26 PM SpeedEvil: (between the nearest full step)
06:26 PM MrHindsight: http://www.geckodrive.com/microstep-full-step-torque
06:26 PM MrHindsight: https://www.micromo.com/technical-library/stepper-motor-tutorials/microstepping-myths-and-realities
06:27 PM MarcelineVQ: excellent info thank you both
06:27 PM SpeedEvil: I somewhat disagree with parts of that.
06:28 PM MrHindsight: https://softsolder.com/2011/09/11/stepper-dynamometer-microstepping-mode-vs-torque/
06:28 PM SpeedEvil: for example, on microsteps that line up with steps, you get the same torque as full stepping, for obvious reasons
06:29 PM MarcelineVQ: I don't plan to microstep as I'd rather have mechanical reduction but the half-step wobble is good to know about and these links are good info to have
06:29 PM SpeedEvil: (in practice, this is not relevant so much as when it excites vibration due to this difference
06:29 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRoT3qpndbU Effects of Microstepping in Stepper Motors
06:30 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv8NVF6ZLlQ Vibration Characteristics of Stepper Motors
06:30 PM MarcelineVQ: though I have noticed the stepper wanting to jump about when driving the stepper on arduino
06:31 PM MarcelineVQ: and that it was lessened in half-step, so I can see people wanting micro for reducing that
06:32 PM MrHindsight: Cause of Vibration in Stepper Motors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgX44Pqc18
06:33 PM MrHindsight: http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~valvano/Datasheets/StepperMicrostep.pdf
06:34 PM MrHindsight: Angle - Torque Characteristics of Stepper Motors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=384nEaRUDI4
06:37 PM MrHindsight: MarcelineVQ: pop quiz tomorrow :)
06:37 PM MarcelineVQ: uhoh :>
06:43 PM Roguish: MarcelineVQ: steppers also have resonant vibrations, whether full stepping or micro-stepping. a characteristic
06:47 PM sliptonic: based on the buildbot page (http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org) I was under the assumption that there's a rt-prempt kernel for jessie. But I can't find it. Is there a ppa or other source?
07:02 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBhURp_ZDik Closed Loop Stepper Motor Product Demo
07:04 PM MarcelineVQ: this is how the machines will beat us in the end, peak-level hopfrog skills
07:05 PM MrHindsight: https://youtu.be/EvZW6YMOwlM?t=29s another fun one
07:07 PM MrHindsight: sliptonic: maybe https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/29764-how-to-install-debian-8-2-jessie-and-linuxcnc2-7
07:14 PM MrHindsight: sliptonic: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/31143-install-the-preempt-rt-kernel
07:18 PM andypugh: sync: I could get the parts re-cast, but there is a lot of work in them now that I don’t really want to repeat. And they will do the job.
08:22 PM BeachBumPete: https://www.ebay.com/itm/91-93-CORVETTE-C4-LEFT-FRONT-SUSPENSION-WITH-CONTROL-ARMS-CALIPER-DRIVER-5389/132261568880?hash=item1ecb676170:g:mowAAOSw-wJZ9E4t&vxp=mtr not bad ;)
08:51 PM BeachBumPete: https://www.ebay.com/itm/C4-Corvette-Front-Suspension-Components/302519630249?hash=item466f9339a9:g:QBMAAOSwIJlaAxhU&vxp=mtr even better
08:59 PM sadisticroot is now known as evilroot
09:13 PM ziper: is fogging spray the right stuff to put on my engine block after i wash it down
09:17 PM MrHindsight: is it in the car and operating or disassembled?
09:31 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest51474
09:47 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil