#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 03 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:36 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
02:55 AM IchGucksLive: morning RyanS
02:56 AM IchGucksLive: good morning CNCNeuie
02:56 AM IchGucksLive: oh Deutsche ip
02:56 AM IchGucksLive: Guten Morgen CNCNeuie
02:56 AM IchGucksLive: ich bin in zweibrücken
03:00 AM IchGucksLive: gloops missing this morning
03:00 AM IchGucksLive: CNCNeuie: if you need help or info just ask
03:01 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS: how is the maschine developing in the philipines
03:01 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS: first vut on time
03:01 AM IchGucksLive: cut
03:03 AM IchGucksLive: there he goes
03:03 AM IchGucksLive: and there he comes
03:03 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: we missed you
03:04 AM gloops: howdy
03:05 AM gloops: just been looking at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zK-aigGIc4
03:05 AM gloops: its hard to imagine whats happening there
03:06 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: Q are there MTB cycle tours to sherrwood forest
03:07 AM IchGucksLive: west off sheffild
03:07 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: just running a proximity demo it looks like, the noises are scary though
03:07 AM gloops: couldnt say Ichs i dont know anyone into MTB - they probably do though
03:07 AM MarcelineVQ: idk what you'd do with that kind of design other than 3d scanning or something else quite light
03:08 AM IchGucksLive: this is TB6560 with 1000pf
03:08 AM IchGucksLive: that makes this noice
03:08 AM IchGucksLive: going below 400pf it is silent
03:09 AM gloops: youve got some pain on making that rigid enough for cutting i bet
03:09 AM gloops: the big ones are made of steel girders
03:09 AM IchGucksLive: for education demo its ok
03:09 AM gloops: yeah ideal for that
03:10 AM IchGucksLive: i need to tell that everything that moves commanded is ok
03:10 AM IchGucksLive: via android it is more fun
03:13 AM gloops: https://skyaboveus.com/cycling/The-Best-Mountain-Biking-in-Sherwood-Forest
03:13 AM IchGucksLive: thanks
03:13 AM gloops: its not far from me but i dont go much, we have smaller woods all around us
03:14 AM IchGucksLive: peak disrict
03:15 AM gloops: peak district is near sheffield yeah
03:15 AM IchGucksLive: arent you in rotherham
03:16 AM gloops: it is hilly, i wouldnt call them mountains, you want to go to wales or scotland for that
03:16 AM gloops: yeah rotherham is joined onto sheffield
03:16 AM IchGucksLive: ok im caled off to garden later !
03:16 AM gloops: sheffield is really a collection of villages that grew into each other
03:17 AM gloops: ok
03:21 AM archivist: peace for a while
03:21 AM gloops: lol
03:23 AM Deejay: moin
03:23 AM archivist: I hate unknown reserves https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CMM-Renishaw-SP600M-Scanning-Head/162732918916
03:29 AM gloops: a hidden reserve is probably better than a starting bid, from the sellers point of view
03:30 AM gloops: people get sucked in to bidding
03:30 AM gloops: hi Deejay
03:31 AM Deejay: hi gloops
03:34 AM gloops: well i need to save everything and reinstall mint, attempts to run linuxcnc on it didnt go too well
03:40 AM archivist: start with the live cd for an easier life
03:42 AM gloops: ive got linuxcnc on a couple of drives, just tried to get it on mint with a different kernel, dont really know what im doing with that - wont update now
03:42 AM gloops: easier to reinstall than try and fix
05:12 AM jthornton: morning
05:27 AM Roguish_ is now known as Roguish
05:54 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
05:54 AM slipalong: Guy's, I have acquired a nice MT3 collet holder with collets which have a tread in them. Anyone know what this system is called? Possibly Autolock
05:54 AM archivist: autolock is an old clarkson thing
05:55 AM archivist: there are copies as well
05:55 AM archivist: the real thing is engraved
05:55 AM slipalong: I need some end mills for it and not sure what to search for
05:56 AM archivist: they also jack against the spindle to reduce flex
05:56 AM slipalong: yes there is a pin in the holder for the end mill to locate on so the Z offset it locked
05:57 AM archivist: although I have one I no longer use it
05:57 AM slipalong: so can U just order threaded end mills or are there different tthreads
05:57 AM archivist: you can put a plain shank endmill in a morse collet and have lexx overhang
05:57 AM archivist: less
05:58 AM archivist: only ever seen the one standard , Osborne was the main copy
05:58 AM slipalong: I was actually thinking of buying some MT3 blanks and boring them out to fit the tools I use frequently in.
05:59 AM slipalong: couple of grub screws to hold the end mill in
06:00 AM archivist: they should be hard so no drilling the collet :)
06:00 AM slipalong: Its a bit if a faff manually changing and then doing TOOL touch-off
06:01 AM archivist: mandraulic tool change
06:01 AM slipalong: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Soft-MT3-Blank-End-Arbor-M12-Drawbar-Thread-28-mm-Diameter-X-30mm/332363561478?epid=2265091852&hash=item4d62697a06:g:ICYAAOSwn7JYEO7l
06:01 AM slipalong: Have a look at these. They are soft so can be drilled Reamed
06:01 AM archivist: I use the blanks for slitting saws and gear cutters
06:02 AM slipalong: I can have a rack of them with the frequently used tools in
06:03 AM archivist: I also make arbours on plain shanks to fit any parallel bore
06:03 AM slipalong: Yes Im staring to see the point of a power drawbar that for sure
06:04 AM slipalong: not sure what you mean?
06:04 AM archivist: like this http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1632.JPG
06:05 AM archivist: that is an MT2 collet in the spindle and a bar with tool on the end
06:05 AM archivist: left bar is on the work centre line to set up
06:06 AM slipalong: Ah Im with you.
06:06 AM archivist: and another collet in the right rotary holding the work
06:06 AM archivist: lots of faff but versatile
06:07 AM slipalong: So I can make my own Arbours to hold tools with say a 10mm shank and use a Mt3 10MM collet in the quil
06:08 AM archivist: use the largest possible collet for rigidity
06:09 AM slipalong: what steel would you suggest for the Arbours?
06:10 AM archivist: I use whatever is to hand usually
06:11 AM slipalong: yes Im liking that idea.
06:11 AM archivist: I also use morse er collet holders
06:11 AM slipalong: You cutting a bevel gear in that photo?
06:12 AM archivist: yes
06:12 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bevel+pd
06:12 AM slipalong: What do you build Steam engines?
06:12 AM archivist: rarely build, often drive
06:13 AM archivist: that was an attempt at bevel gear generation not the classic form cutter
06:14 AM archivist: form was correct clearance and angle was not so good
06:15 AM slipalong: Cool My sone had the offer to go and work on engines at the Bluebell Railway and didn't want to go. I nearly strangled him
06:15 AM archivist: whack!
06:15 AM slipalong: Indeed
06:15 AM archivist: this one http://www.middleton-leawood.org.uk/leawood/
06:28 AM slipalong: Imaging the machine they bored that steam cylinder out on. Myst have been colosal
06:39 AM RyanS1: so ive built linuxcnnc now apparently need to run './linuxcnc', hoowever, it says "no such file"
06:39 AM archivist: there were some machines on display at the old birmingham science museum
06:39 AM slipalong: with the ./ in front the program would have to be in the current directory
06:40 AM slipalong: try just linuxcnc
06:40 AM archivist: or get in the right directory
06:40 AM jthornton: open a terminal in the RIP directory and say . ./scripts/ripenvironment
06:40 AM jthornton: then linuxcnc
06:41 AM RyanS1: that worked!
06:41 AM slipalong: what bistro did you build linuxcnc on?
06:41 AM slipalong: distro
06:42 AM RyanS1: no menu icons though
06:42 AM slipalong: you can just create the shorcuts
06:42 AM jthornton: . ./scripts/rip-environment
06:42 AM jthornton: linuxcnc
06:43 AM RyanS1: mint errr 18.2
06:43 AM jthornton: opps forgot the -
06:43 AM slipalong: but Linux inc needs to run on a special build linux
06:43 AM jthornton: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Running_LinuxCNC
06:44 AM slipalong: That is debian based, but you will need to see if you can get a realtime kernel
06:44 AM RyanS1: 4..9.4-rt37
06:44 AM slipalong: its way way easier to download the live image. I work with computers day in day out and the that live image route
06:45 AM slipalong: the RT bit sounds promising so that looks ok
06:46 AM RyanS1: needed lcnc 2.8 for linnkeed gantry motors
06:47 AM slipalong: Ah I see. I think there are some bleeding edge ISO builds with 2.8. Im not sure where but Im sure others will
06:48 AM RyanS1: i juust followed a how-to on the foruum
06:55 AM slipalong: have you tried make install-menus to get the menus?
07:00 AM RyanS1: nope.. but 66205 latency :-(
07:02 AM RyanS1: the live distro with 2.7 was about 37k. same pc
07:03 AM slipalong: I have the live installed and Im on 2.8.11
07:03 AM slipalong: What CPU is in that machine?
07:04 AM IchGucksLive: hi
07:04 AM RyanS1: does mint have more overhead?
07:04 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: 66k is good for you as you may work on 100k
07:05 AM IchGucksLive: it is best on plasma
07:05 AM IchGucksLive: so the emi will nor interact
07:06 AM IchGucksLive: the conf wizards will input 100k to the ini files
07:06 AM RyanS1: 66k seems slow.. somme have 11k
07:06 AM IchGucksLive: more less you need to do your own
07:06 AM IchGucksLive: i got 3k and work on 100k
07:07 AM IchGucksLive: you are not planing to go 20000steps per second
07:07 AM IchGucksLive: so it is not yuir factor
07:07 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: do you got now some hardware
07:07 AM IchGucksLive: the 5A Bob
07:08 AM IchGucksLive: a Set Steppers
07:09 AM RyanS1: no, 7i76e and thcad-10 in the mail
07:09 AM IchGucksLive: if you use the mesa this is also not the concern as mesa got its own latency
07:09 AM IchGucksLive: it is not computer based latency
07:09 AM IchGucksLive: so you are fine on that
07:10 AM slipalong: yes step generation is done on the Mesa card I believe
07:10 AM slipalong: so latency is not a concern
07:10 AM IchGucksLive: slipalong: even on 66k it is good for the numbers he need
07:11 AM IchGucksLive: its not perfect but workable
07:11 AM RyanS1: i want about 7500 mm//m max not sure about steps
07:11 AM IchGucksLive: enen the inputs are at 1ms so 1000per second
07:11 AM slipalong: Yes I was just interested in what hardware was as I use an old 1.5G core 2 duo and get < 10,000
07:12 AM MarcelineVQ: slipalong: my man :>
07:12 AM IchGucksLive: best i coudt get wars the P5d board
07:12 AM IchGucksLive: my fujitsu pc's are on 15k
07:12 AM IchGucksLive: the asus you can kill all interupts
07:13 AM IchGucksLive: and lifebooks you can kill the smi and sibus
07:14 AM RyanS1: yeahh itss 1.6ghz,0 but its a ... good question
07:14 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: 7500 / 60 = 125mm/sec
07:14 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: even on 0,01 it is 12500per second max
07:14 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: you are realy in the green zone
07:15 AM IchGucksLive: Electronic side
07:15 AM RyanS1: where is system infoo in linuux
07:15 AM IchGucksLive: make yopur hardware find this numbers
07:16 AM RyanS1: 2 core, 2gb ram
07:16 AM MarcelineVQ: RyanS1: /proc usually, depends what info you want
07:16 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: your driver ans psu is the critics on the mashine size as you need to tell the motor 50000times per second to change the power
07:17 AM RyanS1: T2300 1.66ghz
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: thats why we all use 1/2step
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: please do sudo dmidecode -t 2
07:20 AM MarcelineVQ: "dmidecode is a tool for dumping a computer's DMI (some say SMBIOS) table contents in a human-readable format." neat
07:24 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: ?
07:24 AM RyanS1: phhoenix 945GM 6.0
07:25 AM RyanS1: it responded
07:25 AM IchGucksLive: so it is a intel board you may get better latency without the smi
07:25 AM RyanS1: SMBIOS 2.2 preeseent
07:26 AM RyanS1: smi?
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues#Alternate_Approach_smictrl
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: first look if mint dident get smictrl in the aPT
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: if not download the cFile here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/smictrl.c
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: and compile it
07:27 AM RyanS1: gget off my keyboard cat
07:30 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: zultron did a newwer one https://github.com/zultron/smictrl-deb
07:30 AM RyanS1: i dont have RTAAI
07:33 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: it is time wisting as you are on mesa eth
07:33 AM IchGucksLive: and you are on a mashine that does not need that fast puls generation
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: here are the boadr drivers for mint https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=40585
07:35 AM IchGucksLive: im off
07:36 AM gloops: that was the most bizarre install ever
07:37 AM gloops: 2 drives, mint on one, wheezy on the other. i wrecked mint trying to run emc2 on it so attempted re-install of mint and update to sonya
07:37 AM gloops: somehow, ive got sonya with emc2 and the mint drive is wiped
07:40 AM MarcelineVQ: wowee, braking resistor size for my vfd is 70ohm/300watt, that's a big lady
07:42 AM archivist: MarcelineVQ, I have seen a braking resister asplode
07:42 AM MarcelineVQ: I saw one in a vid with exposed coils, they get pretty bright
07:42 AM archivist: was a bit undersized :)
07:46 AM MarcelineVQ: Wonder if I ​can heat my house with cnc
07:46 AM archivist: I use my PC for that
07:59 AM gregcnc: braking resistor is sized for the energy stored in the load, not the vfd itself
08:01 AM gregcnc: and duty cycle
08:16 AM MarcelineVQ: that makes sense thank you, absorbing the power generated from the load spinning the motor. the one reccomended on my vfd's sheets is 70ohm/300watt for a 3hp motor, mine's just 2hp but there's no reason to just meet the minimum if I end up getting one down the line
08:19 AM MarcelineVQ: required ohm rating seems to drop overall as vfd wattage increases in the table of models and reccomended resistors
08:20 AM gregcnc: yes, currents through the resistor must be higher to keep regen voltage witihin drive spec.
08:21 AM archivist: else the vfd protects itself and lets the motor spin freely
08:22 AM MarcelineVQ: what does 16/4ohm mean, 4 in parallel?
08:22 AM gregcnc: no idea
08:22 AM archivist: that is badly stated,
08:23 AM MarcelineVQ: Yes it is, chinese info table :(
08:23 AM MarcelineVQ: *Yes it is badly stated
08:23 AM gregcnc: what si the application??
08:23 AM MarcelineVQ: my use? running a 1.5kw cnc router spindle
08:24 AM MarcelineVQ: I'm not looking for a brake currently I'm just wanting to learn about it
08:24 AM gregcnc: do people bother with brake resistor for those? ah OK
08:24 AM sync: if you want quick decel, I can imagine that you need a braking resistor
08:24 AM MarcelineVQ: If I like this sort of tinkering I will need a brake down the line for other machines I have in mind
08:24 AM archivist: I imagine most dont for that
08:25 AM gregcnc: I suggest looking up a well known brand and their recommendation for braking, it will be detailed
08:25 AM MarcelineVQ: things like lathes need to be able to stop fast for safety reasons if no other
08:25 AM archivist: on the other hand my horizontal mill coasts to stop very slowly and needs a brake
08:25 AM MarcelineVQ: Though a mechanics brake could be applied there
08:26 AM MarcelineVQ: mechanical
08:26 AM MarcelineVQ: thnak you both
08:27 AM sync: well, just measure dc link voltage and turn up your decel
08:39 AM MarcelineVQ: thank you, it looks like I'll be able to monitor voltages over rs-485
09:36 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
10:50 AM gloops: distracted from garage activities but picked up some more bargain steel
11:20 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: nice
11:21 AM MarcelineVQ: ironing out vfd kinks and warming up the spindle bearings here, feels good to have something making noise finally
11:21 AM gloops: 10 metres 60x40mm £30 - been outside for about a month, i didnt look for too long
11:22 AM {HD}: I just discovered cheap ebay tig rigs... utohhh
11:22 AM MarcelineVQ: uhoh :>
11:23 AM gloops: how cheap?
11:23 AM {HD}: The ones that look like they may actually turn on start around $200usd
11:24 AM gloops: thats ok, but maybe get a beefier second hand set for the same?
11:24 AM {HD}: I've been watching craigslist
11:25 AM gloops: yeah, theyre pretty sought after thats the trouble
11:27 AM {HD}: If/when I get a tig machine do I really need new rod? Or are all my old gas rods going to work?
11:32 AM sync: you will need to get new filler material
11:32 AM sync: the metallurgy is different
11:32 AM gloops: you can use them, not so great though
11:33 AM sync: mig wire works reasonably well tho
11:33 AM gloops: £75 lol https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panana-TOOLS-PROFESSIONAL-200-AMP-230V-INVERTER-TIG-WELD-WELDING-WELDER-MACHINE/182826743691?
11:34 AM sync: well any constant current source can be a tig welder
11:34 AM sync: however without HF start it is kinda useless
11:35 AM archivist: looks like stick with incorrect description
11:35 AM gloops: they used to sell attachments for stick welding sets
11:40 AM gloops: https://www.weldequip.com/tig-conversion.htm
12:00 PM gloops: <MarcelineVQ> ironing out vfd kinks and warming up the spindle bearings here, feels good to have something making noise finally
12:00 PM gloops: no issues with the wiring up?
12:02 PM MarcelineVQ: mostly went well, had my first foray into tinning wires to help manage ends. though I had to scratch some paint off a couple mating surfaces and the black-oxide off some screws to get the spindle to ground properly
12:03 PM MarcelineVQ: it's all temp wiring at the moment just right on the screw terminals
12:03 PM sync: eh
12:03 PM sync: tinning wires is a bad idea
12:04 PM cradek: crimpy ends are better
12:05 PM MarcelineVQ: managed to find a real nice cable for the 220v in store. cost as much as just the plug but comes with 1.5m of 10awg cable. I don't have crimps that would fit these terminals but that's certainly in the cards for later. what's the matter with tinning, resistance?
12:07 PM MarcelineVQ: type of cable that was available https://images.lowes.ca/img/p400/15286/062964441206_ca.jpg
12:07 PM archivist: the trouble with tinning is the solder is soft and you get bad connections sometimes later
12:08 PM sync: the problem is that over time the pressure of the clamp will force the lead out and the connection gets loose
12:08 PM sync: which is why when you engineer crimped connections you need to spend some time sectioning them to evaluate the presence of air in the crimp
12:09 PM archivist: micro welds in the crimp
12:09 PM MarcelineVQ: I see, thank you. I'm going to have an enclosure later on with as proper a setup as is reasonable so these comments are valuable
12:11 PM sync: I have a knipex crimper for the ferrules, works acceptably well
12:18 PM JT-Shop: I get my ferrules and crimper from automation direct
12:29 PM * Loetmichel just had fun... germany, november, nearly past dusk, Loetmichel drives home from work in the convertible... open... the looks from the other drivers... ;)
12:32 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2LTL8KgKv8 makes me think of.
12:33 PM sync: oh wow, that desync is really strange in that video
12:34 PM Loetmichel: yeah, the sunglasses were in the center console storage. that would have been a BIT to dark ;)
12:35 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: i was more thinking that way though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvKs2VLmVnY
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: Or that, yes.
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: That was the other one I thought of.
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
01:30 PM miss0r: Because I am a complete and utter idiot, yesterday I ended up having to grind down the shank of a dovetail cutter by 5mm in diameter. *sigh* That takes a while
01:31 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: maybe its tha dark that fals in denmark
01:31 PM miss0r: I'm gonna need that one explained
01:31 PM miss0r: :]
01:32 PM IchGucksLive: denmark is real big country as gereenland is now most dark
01:32 PM miss0r: Indeed
01:32 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: do you know that norway and finland have been also denish in early century
01:32 PM miss0r: The time wasted sucks. But what sucks more is the fact that I now have to do a complete cleaning of the lathe. even thou i covered the ways, this HSS & grit gets EVERYWHERE !
01:33 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: I did not know about norway and finland actualy
01:33 PM IchGucksLive: im in the finish of the 12th mashine for wendstays school benefit
01:34 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: i learnd it as well weeks ago
01:34 PM miss0r: Nice.
01:35 PM miss0r: back when we were a great nation.
01:35 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Norway
01:36 PM miss0r: Now we have Greenland and Faroe Islands. first mentioned is a black hole sucking up all our tax money, the second is a flat desolate place with a shitte climate :]
01:40 PM miss0r: This is what I did yesterday, that I now have to clean up: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171103_190702-YiZKt9lz.jpg Original on the left, the ground down version on the right
01:40 PM miss0r: I have a waaay too small engine mounted to my home build lathe grinder. That realy sets a limitation on this sort of job
01:43 PM IchGucksLive: Faroe Islands good in soccer
01:44 PM miss0r: Now THAT i've never heard before :D
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: if i fiish tomorrow i will make a image of the 12 mashines i build this week
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: if i cna put them together
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: the whole house is filled with mashines now
01:45 PM roycroft: the faroe islanders are barbaric whale killers
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: quite boring ounting always the same mashine ;-)
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: lots of wales out there
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: whales
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: <- hopes gloops does not read as from there
01:53 PM enleth: miss0r: huh, my Bridgeport was originally sold in Denmark, it's got button labels in Danish
01:56 PM enleth: couldn't identify them at first, looked like a drunk German tried to write in Swedish
01:56 PM miss0r: Should you need a translater - let me know ;)
01:57 PM enleth: nah, they were all either self-evident or similar enough to a language I know to understand
01:59 PM IchGucksLive: beer
01:59 PM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
01:59 PM miss0r: Yeah. FRECK! i hate this grinding dust!
01:59 PM miss0r: beer
01:59 PM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
02:00 PM jym: the_wench: SUDO BEER ME
02:14 PM IchGucksLive: hi phiscribe
02:18 PM IchGucksLive: im off for today Gn8
02:21 PM miss0r: That better be the best goddamn dovetail cutter EVER!
03:46 PM miss0r: I'm off for the night. goodnight
03:54 PM gloops: any laymans way of explaining the difference between an indexing 4th axis and a 'true' 4th axis
03:55 PM andypugh: An indexing 4th won’t be rotated during a cut.
03:55 PM andypugh: You rotate, lock then cut.
03:55 PM gloops: right, it is just cutting a line along the cylinder or whatever it is
03:55 PM andypugh: An indexing axis might also not be able to move to arbitrary angles.
03:56 PM XXCoder: hey andypugh
03:57 PM gloops: andypugh, so imagine i want to cut a circle shape onto a wooden cylinder, an indexing 4th axis, will go along and cut the circle out in points, rotating a step, go along again and cut the next points out in the arcs
03:57 PM andypugh: That would be one way, but of course there are a lot of shapes you can’t cut that way.
03:57 PM gloops: whereas a true 4th axis could rotate and cut the arcs in one?
03:58 PM gloops: yes just a simple example
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/rethinking-indexers-and-rotary-tables
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: wow hold old is the article? "Recently developed, RS-232 communication"
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: "Newfangled punchcards for CNC, the next big thing or vapor?"
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: a good tell of age "(a new, full five-axis VMC option is typically priced at $95,000"
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: Article Post: 5/15/2000
04:13 PM gloops: the difference is really in the programming? slicing a model and stepping A are fairly simple, simultaneous rotating and cutting are not
04:15 PM andypugh: gloops: Real men do 4th axis G-code by hand :-) http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/cams.html
04:17 PM gloops: yes thanks andypugh, ill go over that thoroughly later lol
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cybridsystems.com/docs/MDX-540-price-list-10-15.pdf $20K-$30k
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: $3k/year for extended warranties
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: i didn't know that they can actually sell them for these prices
04:28 PM gloops: well, if youve got work for it
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: and don't know what a screw driver is
04:29 PM gloops: its not the same though for a larger concern, you have to have someone employed to build a machine?
04:29 PM gloops: cost differential narrows
04:30 PM gloops: a machine shop wouldnt have someone make a chuck
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: how much do you pay the operator per year?
04:31 PM gloops: in america, 70k?
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: I don't think so
04:32 PM gloops: 50 then
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: haha
04:32 PM gloops: someone to design the machine, make the parts, get it running, this isnt handyman work
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: ok now it's my turn to just make stuff up
04:35 PM gloops: Capt in a large concern the big nobs in the office offset all these purchases against tax and depreciation
04:36 PM gloops: in a small unit the owner director manager would convert an old mill himself
04:37 PM gloops: a machine costs 30k, lasts 5 years, produces X units per year, its not a high price
04:38 PM gloops: its like a rich person said to me - he'd gladly pay someone 2 million a year - if that person made him 1 million
05:19 PM malcom2073: Heh 50k for an operator? No way machine shops could stay in business around here at least.
05:24 PM gloops: i did slightly misread, i thought Capt was talking about building the machine, not service
05:35 PM gloops: i got an old 'swordfish' brand 6 inch vice on the car boot sale sunday, this looks better made than a lot of new chinese stuff
05:35 PM gloops: apart from the saucer shaped casting under the swivel, that looks like a chocolate that melted or something
05:41 PM Deejay: gn8
05:48 PM malcom2073: nice!
05:48 PM malcom2073: Love yard sale finds
05:53 PM gloops: yeah i love looking round, easy to end up coming back with a lot of stuff you didnt really need though
05:56 PM malcom2073: True
06:12 PM andypugh: The Germans have some very nice vices.
06:13 PM sync: the swiss also make some good ones
06:16 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
06:16 PM Tom_L: evening peeps
06:16 PM andypugh: This style, with two proper dovetails: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/35/63/2e35636709bdd0063560002d8c929066.jpg
06:16 PM andypugh: Not inexpensive, though. https://www.hhw.de/en/Shop/Clamping%20equipment/Vices/53600105/Bench_vice_fixed_jaw_width_150
06:16 PM sync: yeah the leinen are nice
06:17 PM gloops: lot of money for a vice
06:17 PM sync: a good vice tho
06:18 PM Tom_L: you can get a good kurt for that
06:19 PM andypugh: Bench vice?
06:20 PM andypugh: https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/hand-tools/vices-engineers-and-fitters/engineer%27s-vice-quick-release/f/1538?query=vice is not any cheaper, and that’s not even a cast steel one.
06:20 PM Tom_L: oh probably not
06:22 PM Tom_L: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/73411704
06:22 PM gloops: this swordfish actually has a useful looking rounded cove where the anvil on that expensive vice is, dont think id thrash it too much though..heh
06:22 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure how that one is used
06:28 PM andypugh: Crikey: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09207085
06:29 PM gloops: what does that do that a normal decent vice doesnt?
06:30 PM andypugh: I suspect “last several lifetimes”
06:30 PM Tom_L: i forgot about wilton vises
06:30 PM Tom_L: those _are_ nice
06:31 PM Loetmichel: still... THAT much for a vise?
06:31 PM Tom_L: i doubt i'd give that for one though
06:31 PM Loetmichel: its not even particulary big
06:31 PM gloops: vices usually get a lot of abuse
06:32 PM gloops: youre really going to whack that around with a hammer, or cut stuff off with the angle grinder
06:32 PM Loetmichel: gloops: no need for a hammer
06:32 PM Tom_L: overall length 30" that's big
06:33 PM Loetmichel: i managed to make a corcscrew out of the handle of our 4" vise at the company
06:33 PM Loetmichel: BY HAND
06:33 PM gloops: Loet what are you going to do with whatever is in the vice if not hit it?
06:33 PM Loetmichel: gloops: ah, sorry
06:33 PM Loetmichel: i thought you meant the handle
06:34 PM Tom_L: hit it, bend it, weld on it beat on thumb a bit while doing so....
06:34 PM Tom_L: press
06:34 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: + cut into it with hacksaw and angle grinder
06:35 PM gloops: youd forever be saying to the apprentice - DONT use the Wilton for THAT!
06:35 PM Loetmichel: and of course: FILE into it
06:35 PM Tom_L: i'd be saying, just remember... your head will fit in that wilton
06:35 PM gloops: lol
06:36 PM Tom_L: now i'm gonna go cut some metal
06:36 PM Loetmichel: ... if anyone still remembers hwo to file a piece of metal flat, level and in tolerance that is
06:36 PM Tom_L: i may take a stab at that skill
06:36 PM Tom_L: we will see..
06:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_base_XAxis3.jpg
06:38 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: i live in germany. even we electricans HAD to learn how to file in our apprenticeship 30 years ago... and the young workers i get today dont know which end of a file is the handle... :-(
06:38 PM andypugh: Handles on files? There’s posh!
06:38 PM Tom_L: let them practice filing on a 4jaw lathe part
06:39 PM Tom_L: up close
06:39 PM * Loetmichel had to make e few needle file handles when i had to use the set we have at the company... they had none ...
06:39 PM Loetmichel: 3dprinter to the rescue ;)
06:39 PM Loetmichel: @ andypugh
06:40 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16548&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
06:40 PM Loetmichel: :-)
06:41 PM andypugh: That’s a needle file handle?
06:41 PM Loetmichel: a bunch
06:41 PM andypugh: Ah, OK. Like bananas?
06:42 PM andypugh: I wonder how long my etch primer takes to dry. It would be nice to get a top-coat on tonight.
06:42 PM Loetmichel: like "dont hurt your hands while using the files any more"
06:43 PM Loetmichel: that PLA stuff is surprisingly sturdy
06:43 PM Loetmichel: and the 3dprint-texture is actually useful on these handles
06:43 PM andypugh: Just finished machining a pair of these swivelling spindle mounts. I like to think that they look like they might have been made by the factory. https://photos.app.goo.gl/FwI0Yj8mt66RhGW73
06:44 PM gloops: just want some tea throwing on them to lose the new metal giveaway
06:45 PM hazzy: As always, superb work andy!
06:45 PM Loetmichel: hihihi... and the ubiquitous Ikea lamp on the machine ;)
06:45 PM andypugh: Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZX8eHC7fws
06:46 PM gloops: (apparently tea was an old trick used in sheffield works if a job had been cut undersize and sleeved)
06:47 PM Loetmichel: Not even needed for that handle use
06:47 PM Loetmichel: they are sturdy enough right out of the printer
06:50 PM sync: andypugh: that depends on how hot you make your shed
06:51 PM andypugh: It’s unheated, so quite cool today.
06:51 PM sync: then it might take a bit longer
06:54 PM andypugh: I have made two of the mounts, one to sell. I intend to engrave degree markings. But to engrave the marks on _my_ mount I will need to mount a spindle to the _other_ mount…
06:54 PM andypugh: Hmmm
07:06 PM XXCoder: snow.
07:07 PM XXCoder: snow on nov.
07:07 PM XXCoder: very rare in here. last time it happened was in 1925
07:10 PM jym: XXCoder: You've just entered hell, have a nice day =)
07:19 PM XXCoder: jym: wow thanks!
07:20 PM gloops: omens of doom all around
07:21 PM XXCoder: it's called climate change
07:22 PM XXCoder: washington state was way overdue for 5 year snow
07:22 PM XXCoder: I think this year will be one of those.
07:25 PM gloops: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/874838/squirrel-rare-white-albino-Pitlochry-house
07:27 PM XXCoder: so thats sign of doom, genetic rarity?
07:28 PM gloops: well, we dont really know, do we
07:28 PM XXCoder: I find "doom is coming" viewpoint to be sad.
07:29 PM gloops: you have views on climate change though?
07:29 PM XXCoder: there is reasonable evidence so far
07:30 PM XXCoder: this region is rain forest biome
07:30 PM XXCoder: it used to rain bunch of times in summers
07:30 PM gloops: yes, the climate has always changed
07:30 PM gloops: never been static
07:30 PM XXCoder: dont play with words
07:30 PM XXCoder: I meant mankind-affected change
07:32 PM XXCoder: okay.
07:32 PM dioz: hey
07:32 PM dioz: you guys!
07:32 PM dioz: okay here is what i need
07:32 PM MarcelineVQ: XXCoder: that quit message has a few causes, don't read into it :>
07:32 PM dioz: i need a laser that does 2 vertical 360 lines in an X
07:32 PM dioz: on the ceiling
07:32 PM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: I know. thats why I said "okay" and not "YOU QUITTER!" or something
07:32 PM dioz: it'll make hanging hangers easier for pipe and duct and conduit and shit
07:33 PM MarcelineVQ: though before accusing others of wordplay you should be clear about what you mean by climate change, he may have just been seeing if you meant the same thing he did
07:33 PM dioz: line it up on the floor and have it prject a line on the ceiling
07:33 PM dioz: the thing is
07:33 PM dioz: THE THING IS BOYS
07:33 PM MarcelineVQ: the thing!
07:33 PM dioz: is i want it to make an X on the ceiling
07:33 PM dioz: a lot of them do a vertical and a horizontal 360
07:33 PM dioz: which is fucking useless
07:33 PM dioz: USELESS BOYS
07:33 PM dioz: i need 2 vertical 360's creating an X at the center point
07:33 PM dioz: self leveling
07:33 PM andypugh: I was snowed on in Nevada in the middle of last month.
07:33 PM dioz: and i can't find one
07:33 PM dioz: i just can't find one!
07:34 PM XXCoder: andypugh: when did it happen last time?
07:34 PM MarcelineVQ: dioz: seems like a reasonable thing to want
07:34 PM andypugh: I have no idea. I was quite high up.
07:34 PM XXCoder: intresting. well snow is hard to come in this region lol
07:35 PM XXCoder: getting over a inch of snow is pretty rare
07:35 PM XXCoder: and dec snows is uncommon
07:35 PM XXCoder: nov... well 1925 lol
07:35 PM dioz: MarcelineVQ: i know. but wtf bbq. not a single one i can find on the market
07:37 PM XXCoder: kickstarter it
07:37 PM XXCoder: im not quite getting what you want though
07:37 PM XXCoder: just want X 180 degrees on ceiling?
07:39 PM gloops: monitor went off!
07:39 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm a wide diode with alow center of gravity attached to a single axis with another next to it on the perpendicular axis so that an X is drawn 10-20 feet above it on the roof regardless of the device orientation, to within some reasonable limit like 45deg
07:39 PM MarcelineVQ: certainly sounds like a device that should exist
07:40 PM jym: XXCoder: You're welcome =)
07:40 PM MarcelineVQ: and if not, at least a self-leveling dot should be a thing
07:41 PM MarcelineVQ: a little laser pointer on a gimbal with an X lens on it
07:41 PM dioz: XXCoder: yah
07:41 PM XXCoder: cool
07:41 PM dioz: well an X in like... a cartesian plane
07:41 PM dioz: 90 degrees
07:41 PM dioz: x 4
07:42 PM dioz: 1/2pi
07:42 PM dioz: the thing about it is... i wanna be able to set the X where my angle is
07:42 PM dioz: and have it run both ways to help straighten pipe... align pipe
07:43 PM dioz: when you're 30 feet in the air and you're in the middle of a room and you have to find things to measure from so you can stay square...
07:43 PM XXCoder: X laser diode thingy on angle-settable on both angles, and bubble to set zero first
07:43 PM dioz: i think the best way to do it is a couple laser lines
07:43 PM XXCoder: center bubble not leveling type
07:43 PM dioz: yaaaah
07:43 PM dioz: frick that
07:44 PM XXCoder: kickstart it
07:44 PM dioz: or i could run two lasers with less involvement than that
07:44 PM XXCoder: I wouldnt mind bumping support money or even get device if its good
07:44 PM dioz: like this...
07:44 PM dioz: https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/line-lasers-gll-2-80-123125-p/
07:45 PM dioz: but with ,instead of a vertical and a horizontal, two vertical planes 360 degrees
07:45 PM dioz: making an X on the ceiling
07:45 PM dioz: you feel me?
07:45 PM dioz: IDK why it wouldn't be made already
07:45 PM XXCoder: no, I dont feel you but I do get you ;)
07:46 PM dioz: https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/line-lasers-gll-3-80-123072-p/
07:46 PM dioz: i guess they do make one
07:46 PM dioz: i don't wanna spend a G bone on one though
07:47 PM dioz: holy
07:47 PM dioz: i think i'd spend tops $300
07:47 PM dioz: one of these would shave minutes a run
07:47 PM dioz: which is a lot of time
07:47 PM dioz: instead of measuring off the wall all the time
07:47 PM XXCoder: ah yeah there it is
07:48 PM XXCoder: aliexpress?
07:48 PM dioz: idk what to call it
07:48 PM dioz: this is the only one i've found
07:48 PM dioz: "three plane laser"
07:48 PM dioz: brings up nothing on amazon
07:48 PM dioz: "two vertical laser"
07:48 PM dioz: nothing
07:48 PM dioz: "dual vertical laser" nothing
07:50 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?spm=2114.search0104.8.8.fgYNXH&initiative_id=QRW_20171103171828
07:50 PM XXCoder: am I god or am I god
07:51 PM XXCoder: you would probably wait 100 years for it to artrive but just 67 bucks
07:51 PM Wolf__: your linking skills suck tho :P
07:51 PM XXCoder: Wolf__: its search list of few different designs
07:51 PM dioz: shows me no results
07:51 PM Wolf__: Sorry, your search ' ' did not match any products. Please try again.
07:52 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DEKO-5-Lines-6-Points-Laser-Level-360-Rotary-Cross-Laser-Line-Leveling-with-Oxford-Cloth/32796320471.html
07:52 PM XXCoder: weird well heres more direct to best one I saw so far
07:52 PM XXCoder: this is closer to what he linked, and are bit more expensive https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fukuda-8Lines-3D-Laser-Level-Self-Leveling-4-Horizontal-4-Vertical-360-Rotary-Cross-Super-Powerful/32676306465.html?
07:54 PM dioz: "5 line laser"
07:54 PM dioz: did the search for amazon well
07:54 PM dioz: who would've thought 5 lines
07:57 PM XXCoder: 5 line is weird
08:00 PM XXCoder: sorry to hear on your kickstarter though ;)
08:05 PM andypugh: dioz: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S6DTH8E?tag=price15600-20&ascsubtag=wtbs_59fd0b1d97dc28052aa46797
08:05 PM andypugh: $350
08:06 PM XXCoder: im pretty sure dioz wants to spend less
08:07 PM andypugh: $350 is not much more than $300
08:07 PM andypugh: Cheaper than an iPhoneX, and nobody needs one of those.
08:10 PM XXCoder: how muchs icrapx anyway
08:12 PM Wolf__: here you go http://a.co/iKAuT3u (who cares whats the cost when youre shopping for someone else :P
08:12 PM XXCoder: fancy lol
08:13 PM Wolf__: http://a.co/2724RJd I’ve seen worse (and own it lol)
08:14 PM XXCoder: wow its cheaper than icrapx probably
08:14 PM XXCoder: its even self-leveling
08:54 PM zeeshan: andypugh: whats new dude
08:55 PM andypugh: Gnu is not Unix
08:55 PM andypugh: Oh, you said New
08:55 PM andypugh: I miss-heard
08:56 PM zeeshan: i saw a video of some mpg thing on your youtube
08:56 PM andypugh: Yeah, it was counting wierdly. But was back to normal after a reboot
08:57 PM zeeshan: irc crash awesome
08:58 PM zeeshan: andypugh: working on anything interesting? :)
08:59 PM andypugh: Just put the top coat of paint on my spindle mounts.
08:59 PM andypugh: This thing: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZWaKkuQYOCCobsTZ2
09:00 PM zeeshan: are you kidding me
09:01 PM zeeshan: you made a casting for the horizontal support
09:01 PM zeeshan: let me guess
09:01 PM zeeshan: youre on your way to cutting gears :)
09:01 PM andypugh: No, this is to mount a modern high-speed spindle on the milling machine as an alternative to the strong but slow existing vertical head.
09:02 PM zeeshan: is it just different gearing?
09:02 PM andypugh: The current head is good for big cutters and facemills, but at 1000rpm it’s really redious for engraving and little ball-nose work.
09:03 PM zeeshan: my mill is similar
09:03 PM zeeshan: 3150 rpm max
09:03 PM zeeshan: 10000 rpm would be nice
09:03 PM andypugh: 3150 is 3x as good as 1000.
09:05 PM zeeshan: haha
09:07 PM andypugh: I do have an unstoppable 45rpm gear.
09:09 PM zeeshan: grr kvirc keeps crashing
09:18 PM Vitran: I am making a mount for my mill to put a cheap chinese 18000 rpm 1/8" collet chuck spindle for engraving
09:19 PM andypugh: Vitran: That’s exactly what my thing is.
09:21 PM zeeshan: why not a router
09:21 PM zeeshan: i need to get off my butt and hook up some solenoids so that linuxcnc can turn on air blast
09:21 PM zeeshan: through gcode
09:21 PM zeeshan: :/
09:27 PM andypugh: Do it now.
09:27 PM * evilroot yawns
09:27 PM evilroot: Finally got the big air linear actuators running
09:27 PM evilroot: Took forever to find the right fittings and valves
09:28 PM evilroot: And I still don't know WTF I'm going to do with them
09:28 PM zeeshan: what are you doin
09:36 PM evilroot: Dunno
09:36 PM evilroot: They came with a load of other stuff
09:36 PM evilroot: heh
11:34 PM RyanS1: what folder should i be in for 'make install-menus' to work?
11:37 PM MarcelineVQ: src
11:37 PM MarcelineVQ: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Building_LinuxCNC_realtime appearantly
11:38 PM MarcelineVQ: so linuxcnc-dev/src it looks like
11:44 PM RyanS1: it ccreated something "mkdir -p /home/ryans/.config/menus/applications-merged
11:44 PM RyanS1: cp ../share/menus/CNC.menu /home/ryans/.config/menus/applications-merged"