#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 31 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:27 AM gloops__: testing diy surface grinder today hopefully
01:31 AM MarcelineVQ: might be a little Stefan Gotteswinter stream later on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AJkAQS7weU
01:51 AM RyanS1: install of RT kernal in progress!
01:51 AM MarcelineVQ: you madman
01:56 AM RyanS1: no im just following a how-to like a trained monkey
01:57 AM pfred1: ain't nothing wrong with following directions
01:58 AM MarcelineVQ: best way to get started
01:58 AM pfred1: you patching a kernel for RTAI?
01:59 AM RyanS1: uh-oh what's module i915?
01:59 AM pfred1: northbridge I think
01:59 AM pfred1: some mobo chip
02:00 AM RyanS1: umm, rtai... maybe
02:01 AM pfred1: i2c_algo_bit 12713 1 i915
02:02 AM RyanS1: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/32193-complete-how-to-linux-mint-18-1-32-64-rtai-or-preempt-with-rip-install-or-deb?limitstart=0
02:02 AM pfred1: if you were patching for RTAI I'd think you'd know it
02:03 AM pfred1: it's a little tricky to do
02:03 AM pfred1: I had ot ask about one flag on their mailing list
02:04 AM pfred1: CONFIG_SPARSE_IRQ
02:05 AM pfred1: that one was a show stopper for me for a while
02:08 AM RyanS1: why do alll these tutorials stay in command line like itss 1987
02:08 AM pfred1: because that's the best way to convey information
02:08 AM MarcelineVQ: gui's are annoying and bug prone
02:09 AM RyanS1: elitism too
02:09 AM pfred1: no it is the way to do this kind of stuff
02:11 AM RyanS1: not for my Arts degree brain
02:11 AM RyanS1: i love purdy guis
02:12 AM pfred1: it does help if your terminal has a nice font
02:12 AM pfred1: the stock ones usually do suck
02:14 AM RyanS1: reboot time
02:14 AM MarcelineVQ: speaking of stock I don't see the percentage of installing a specific distro anyway when there's packaged lcnc releases, all the OS has to do is run your machine, it's not like you need gentoos source-wrangling or arch's rolling releases
02:15 AM pfred1: I built LinuxCNC on Gentoo once it was pretty crazy
02:15 AM MarcelineVQ: a person can install mint's ui in debian just fine if they want to
02:16 AM RyanS1: thiiss is mint
02:16 AM pfred1: but you don't get all native CPU built binaries on all distros
02:17 AM pfred1: there's nothing like home compiled code
02:18 AM gloops__: i got so far with trying to run emc2 in mint
02:18 AM MarcelineVQ: Just seems like a lot of extra work for your fist trip around the block, especially if you're still getting comfortable using cli
02:18 AM gloops__: i might have a go at finishing it in a bit
02:18 AM pfred1: yeah between mint and debian you're better off with debian
02:19 AM gloops__: i use mint as my regular platform, it would be more convenient to have emc2 on it - im not very familiar with debian
02:19 AM RyanS1: i nneed lcnc 2.8
02:19 AM MarcelineVQ: In my daily life I prefer rolling-release, but the very last thing I want to do for a working machine-controller is update it! :> if it ain't broke and all that
02:20 AM pfred1: mint is a derivitive of debian
02:20 AM gloops__: Ryan - its on the repository
02:20 AM pfred1: they just add the non-free archives by default
02:21 AM gloops__: all i did was run synaptic - youll see linuxcnc - add, mine updated itself
02:21 AM pfred1: that and their package maintenance isn't on par with debian's quality
02:24 AM gloops__: well probably so pfred, but you know what its like when you get used to a system
02:24 AM gloops__: in 2.8 axis/joints seem a lot more rational to me
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: europe is awaking to a nice clear Winter mornig with below zero temps
02:32 AM pfred1: it is getting chillier here
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1: still online
02:32 AM pfred1: still well above freezing though
02:32 AM gloops__: was white over yesterday morning here
02:35 AM RyanS1: yay 4.9.47 rt37 installed
02:35 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS1 you shure do not need 2.8
02:35 AM pfred1: Linux buck 3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.2.93-1 i686 GNU/Linux
02:35 AM IchGucksLive: non of my plasmas run on more then 2.6
02:35 AM gloops__: lol
02:35 AM pfred1: /exec -o uname -a
02:36 AM gloops__: Ichs you can run 7 motors per axis on 2.8
02:36 AM pfred1: I only have 3 motors to run
02:36 AM IchGucksLive: you only need 4
02:36 AM gloops__: you can build a plasma dragster
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: but on price now 4x 3Nm stepeprs will buy you a 12Nm Servo
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: so no need to do this
02:37 AM gloops__: would look good though if you got the steppers chromed
02:38 AM IchGucksLive: and plasma does not need gantry homing
02:38 AM gloops__: cant run 2 motors per axis without homing
02:38 AM IchGucksLive: as far as you do not have real 7i77 servo
02:38 AM archivist: if you want quality
02:38 AM pfred1: my gantry never needs to be homed
02:38 AM pfred1: it is fixed
02:39 AM IchGucksLive: We here did invest in Mechanics as 30:1 precice
02:39 AM archivist: someone is always making assumptions about what people need/want/are building
02:39 AM pfred1: that sucker is screwed down tight
02:39 AM gloops__: you move the space pfred, but the motors still need to be in sync
02:39 AM IchGucksLive: and in a 8hr shift there is no ofset to the mashine
02:41 AM gloops__: maybe so Ichs, but if the option to ensure totally that the motors are in sync is there - better to have it
02:41 AM IchGucksLive: agrees
02:41 AM IchGucksLive: but not on a 2week install nightmare
02:41 AM gloops__: you run an 8x4 cut and dont watch it - one side lost steps
02:42 AM pfred1: I run my machine at half speed so it doesn't lose steps
02:42 AM IchGucksLive: then go hybrid it will never loose steps
02:42 AM gloops__: even i managed to set 2 motors up in 2.8 (with some help)
02:43 AM IchGucksLive: in 2.7 you only got to direct the signals xstap xdir to a othere parport
02:44 AM RyanS1: ddaammnn tthhiiss mouse bbuuttonn iiss bbuuggerreed
02:44 AM gloops__: you can get 4 motors on the standard BOB, ill need another parport to add 2 rotary axis
02:45 AM pfred1: I just split gates on my BOB
02:45 AM gloops__: hows that work pfred?
02:45 AM pfred1: I added more buffers to it
02:45 AM pfred1: so one signal became 2
02:46 AM IchGucksLive: gloops__: its 5 USD more so go for second parport
02:46 AM IchGucksLive: benefits also on 10 inputs
02:46 AM MarcelineVQ: IchGucksLive: a hybrid never loses steps? could you explain this further?
02:46 AM pfred1: I had issues with the drive strength with the optocouplers on the motor drives
02:47 AM pfred1: theoretically I could have driven both off one gate but it was really pushing it
02:47 AM pfred1: I had like one mA to spare
02:47 AM IchGucksLive: MarcelineVQ: it has its own mind it will move to the point it is commanded EVEN if you stop thehabrid by hand after relese it moves to the commanded point
02:48 AM gloops__: probably too much for me to sort out pfred, im a novice with electronics
02:48 AM MarcelineVQ: oh I see by hybrid you're referring to stepper/servo hybrid
02:48 AM IchGucksLive: yes
02:48 AM pfred1: step/dir servo?
02:48 AM gloops__: well, this is debateable
02:48 AM MarcelineVQ: thank you
02:49 AM gloops__: the closed loop can lose position, but it knows it has lost position
02:49 AM pfred1: the less my machine knows the better
02:49 AM gloops__: regaining lost steps is theoretical
02:50 AM gloops__: because you still get a ruined job
02:50 AM MarcelineVQ: you've have to be cutting awfully thin cuts to ruin a job doing step correction for a plasma
02:51 AM gloops__: it wont cut it though, it will signal an e-stop
02:51 AM gloops__: then what?
02:51 AM IchGucksLive: gloops__: i go pause
02:51 AM MarcelineVQ: e-start it?
02:52 AM IchGucksLive: as it gets green when it hits the commanded
02:52 AM archivist: hybrid is the term used for the magnetics of a stepper not stepper with encoder
02:52 AM pfred1: archivist I've heard that use
02:52 AM MarcelineVQ: archivist: that's why I asked to be sure what was meant
02:53 AM gloops__: so you start this job off, say 20 repetition pieces, it loses .1mm on the first cut - every X position is out by .1mm for the other 19
02:54 AM pfred1: but why are you losing position?
02:54 AM pfred1: it should never happen
02:55 AM gloops__: i dont know nwhy we're losing position
02:55 AM pfred1: something is messed up
02:55 AM IchGucksLive: gloops__: if your command signal comes thru then you are never out of position
02:55 AM pfred1: when i isolation route a PCB i go over it a few times to clean it up
02:55 AM IchGucksLive: your timing is the goal to get your cnc perfect
02:55 AM MarcelineVQ: in our heads we're probably imagining different machines which makes this a little tougher to discuss. when you say there's a known position loss and I say there's a correction, the correction I have in mind is as soon as possible, not after the job
02:56 AM MarcelineVQ: and as soon as possible in computer time is really very fast
02:56 AM pfred1: yeah like 5 billionths of a second
02:56 AM MarcelineVQ: compared to the stepcount-to-position-travel in plasma
02:56 AM IchGucksLive: MarcelineVQ: you are right
02:56 AM gloops__: well you are right of course for most applications marcel, wood, plasma, laser
02:57 AM gloops__: might be a different story on precision machining
02:57 AM IchGucksLive: gloops__: nowone builds a Precision mesuring system on steppers
02:57 AM pfred1: I don't know about that
02:57 AM IchGucksLive: we are most 98% done with 0,1
02:57 AM archivist: gloops__, the once per part step loss has a cause, the timing of the dir change to nest step
02:58 AM MarcelineVQ: I'm willing to concede this may not be enough when you need a smooth finish on a precision surface, however using a stepper for this is already possible a poor road :(
02:59 AM MarcelineVQ: Or put another way, at the price-point precision products live at, your equipment quality level can be raised. Maybe
02:59 AM IchGucksLive: THIS is as good as it is http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/fit_we.jpg
02:59 AM IchGucksLive: for CNC freeks its a mess
02:59 AM IchGucksLive: for coustemer it is the part to pay fore
03:01 AM gloops__: if your resolution is .05 - thats the accuracy of a c7 ballscrew, you lose ten steps, and recover them rapidly, youve got a .5mm quirk on the job
03:01 AM MarcelineVQ: what pass are you losing the steps on most likely though, hogging right?
03:02 AM gloops__: thats not barely noticeable in some jobs
03:02 AM MarcelineVQ: finish passes have to be forced against less material, which means less step-loss-potential
03:02 AM IchGucksLive: this is made on a ordanarey TRapezional 20x4 with 0,01
03:02 AM IchGucksLive: the mashine is build withoud tread end work only UCP bearing
03:02 AM IchGucksLive: and wood bits
03:02 AM archivist: steppers can be accurate if used correctly we are not all making wooden stuff
03:03 AM IchGucksLive: agrees
03:03 AM archivist: so dont lecture one type is ok for everybody
03:03 AM IchGucksLive: What i try to say is you can make realy good stuff with minimum Budget
03:04 AM IchGucksLive: and also with people here in regions where you cand buy anything there are very happy with Bycicle parts
03:05 AM IchGucksLive: Ryan got a big budget but overshoots in thinking
03:05 AM MarcelineVQ: we just got a mechanical bull, the kind horses can chase, and it's made of bike parts
03:05 AM MarcelineVQ: clothelines and bicycle wheels can get you pretty far in this world
03:06 AM IchGucksLive: even arount the planet
03:06 AM gloops__: i made a router out of bike parts lol
03:06 AM gloops__: i would be happy using it as well, but bike chain is too high pitch, too fast and no power
03:07 AM RyanS1: nott big
03:07 AM IchGucksLive: im off Thanks for all you good infos this morning sun is up ans shining
03:07 AM archivist: my 5 axis is made of machined scrap and parts of other machines
03:08 AM pfred1: I made a panel for my machine out of a piece of plastic I found on the side of the road
03:08 AM gloops__: archivist this is the singularity that machine builders hit - its difficult until you have a working machine -then you can make better parts for a better machine
03:08 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops__: I'd like to do some experiments downt he line with stepcounts and loss tracking. I suspect, but don't know yet, that in an example like you mentioned where you lose 10 steps at once I'd want the machine to consider it an error and stop
03:08 AM archivist: he forgot to notice ryan wants to sometimes mill on the same machine
03:08 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops__: The anti-sinuglarity is that you then need two machines
03:09 AM MarcelineVQ: So one can be down while you forever upgrade the other hehe
03:09 AM MarcelineVQ: and back and forth
03:09 AM archivist: I had many manual machines around me when making mine
03:10 AM gloops__: Marcel yes that is an issue, especially as ive only got one set of motors for both machines lol
03:10 AM pfred1: gloops__ what kind of motors do you have?
03:10 AM MarcelineVQ: aha this is where someone comes along and tells us newbies to do all our wiring should with plugs
03:11 AM gloops__: you had it easy archivist
03:11 AM archivist: :)
03:11 AM MarcelineVQ: so when we start monkeying with things they come together easier after they come apart
03:12 AM gloops__: yes plugs seemed like a waste of money when i was throwing together the first one, should have thought ahead
03:12 AM archivist: I only just fitted plugs on the stepper leads a few weeks ago
03:12 AM RyanS1: plugs bad?
03:12 AM archivist: bought the connectors many years ago
03:12 AM pfred1: I just used barrier strips
03:12 AM pfred1: good enough
03:13 AM MarcelineVQ: RyanS1: afaik shielded plugs good, unshielded less so, dunno the numbers that lead to that advise
03:13 AM archivist: plugs depends how often you change mechanical setup
03:13 AM MarcelineVQ: I suspect my vfd is going to be so noisy it doesn't matter anyway. need to fix a box for it
03:13 AM MarcelineVQ: *find a
03:14 AM pfred1: I use one of those Chinese air cooled spindles with the SMPS running it
03:14 AM archivist: I move the 5th/4th axes around to different places or off the machine
03:14 AM pfred1: those htings stop GRBL machines cold unless they get cap bypassed
03:14 AM MarcelineVQ: pfred1: stop them due to emi?
03:15 AM pfred1: yup
03:15 AM MarcelineVQ: mymy
03:15 AM pfred1: kills the USB link
03:15 AM pfred1: don't affect my machine though
03:16 AM Deejay: moin
03:17 AM MarcelineVQ: hey
03:17 AM pfred1: I was watching a guy on YouTube he had to put the spindle 10 feet away before it stopped killing his machine
03:17 AM pfred1: he was all like i fixed it but it is not very useful
03:17 AM gloops__: im going to build the frame for this xyz router with fittings for a future rotary along X and facing up z
03:17 AM MarcelineVQ: gosh hehe, I wonder if the box body on mine will help with that
03:18 AM gloops__: in wood terms that means spindles and bowls are a possibility
03:18 AM pfred1: all you got to do is bypass the brushes with caps
03:18 AM pfred1: but he hadn't figured that out yet
03:18 AM MarcelineVQ: mine's this style https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1VaANbwkLL1JjSZFpq6y7nFXaU.jpg
03:19 AM pfred1: totally different
03:19 AM MarcelineVQ: pfred1: what do you mean by bypass the brushes with caps? rather I know what brushes are, and caps, but I'm not sure how they fit into that sentence hehe
03:20 AM pfred1: http://www.murata.com/~/media/webrenewal/products/emiconfun/emc/2014/10/1410_emc_en28_3.ashx?la=en
03:20 AM MarcelineVQ: I should have just asked: was your spindle a brushed motor?
03:20 AM archivist: the electrical noise needs shorting with capacitors
03:21 AM pfred1: that is like fully filtered that image
03:22 AM MarcelineVQ: thisoldtony tried to do that with his spindle iirc, popped a few caps :> I should have a look at that vid again come to think of it
03:22 AM pfred1: this is better https://a.pololu-files.com/picture/0J678.300.png?b33eb89f09b7dcecdbbcb41cc5bf750d
03:23 AM pfred1: you have ot use the right kind of caps
03:23 AM pfred1: X1s
03:24 AM MarcelineVQ: yeah, to handle the voltage? my spindle is 3PH-220v I think
03:24 AM pfred1: they're like inside SMPS
03:24 AM MarcelineVQ: rather, that's what's specced, so I hope
03:24 AM pfred1: or are they X2 capacitors?
03:24 AM archivist: not just voltage, the size matters for speed, often people use more than one capacitor
03:24 AM pfred1: safety caps
03:25 AM MarcelineVQ: do caps have duty cycle?
03:25 AM pfred1: absolutely
03:25 AM archivist: self extinguishing
03:25 AM MarcelineVQ: :X
03:26 AM pfred1: yeah I think it is Y1 and X2
03:26 AM archivist: its how they respond to mains spikes that cause a breakdown,
03:26 AM pfred1: yeah they're big and beefy for their rating
03:26 AM pfred1: X2s are like plastic boxes
03:27 AM archivist: I have seen the results of a few capacitor failures :)
03:27 AM pfred1: I've blown some caps up
03:27 AM MarcelineVQ: I've seen some scary-big caps in engine starter packs, can't imagine the feeling a person would have when one of those let the goo out nearby
03:27 AM pfred1: I've blown motor caps
03:27 AM pfred1: they stink
03:28 AM pfred1: like driver me out of the garage until the smoke clears
03:28 AM archivist: the old style filter caps often went short on a mains spike, fuse dies violently
03:28 AM pfred1: I watched the video of this old tony upgrading his PSU
03:29 AM pfred1: he could have done better
03:29 AM pfred1: I can't imagine what that transformer he got cost to ship
03:30 AM pfred1: I wonder if he paid full price for that filter cap he used?
03:31 AM pfred1: because new it was like over $100
03:31 AM MarcelineVQ: ehe, tony and ave have both made perforbord psu's I think.
03:34 AM MarcelineVQ: I was looking into transformers for motor power but nothing reasonable was located, maybe the smps will change my mind about what reasonable after some use
03:34 AM pfred1: a transformer will last forever
03:34 AM pfred1: there's not much to it
03:35 AM archivist: until it dies and gets hot
03:35 AM pfred1: I'm sayign as long as you have a x-former that can handle the load
03:35 AM archivist: shorted turns or open circuit winding
03:36 AM pfred1: it helps to fuse protect it too
03:36 AM archivist: I have seen the wire to the solder pin corrode off
03:36 AM pfred1: how long did that take?
03:36 AM archivist: no idea customer job
03:37 AM pfred1: thre are environmental concerns
03:37 AM pfred1: I mean if coolant and chips are blowing onto the equipment it might shorten the life
03:39 AM archivist: best ones are vacuum impregnated with varnish, much longer life
03:40 AM pfred1: I've seen some ancient welders still working
03:41 AM MarcelineVQ: huh, actually the transformers on digikey are more reasonable than I remember, can actually find one for a small VAC solenoid project I have
03:42 AM pfred1: transformers are getting harder to come by surplus anymore
03:42 AM pfred1: SMPS has taken over everywhere
03:43 AM MarcelineVQ: steal the transformer outof the wee smps :>
03:43 AM pfred1: they work because of high frequency and high voltage
03:43 AM pfred1: they trade that for copper and core material
03:46 AM MarcelineVQ: afaik the issue of smps for motors is the voltage generated by the motor's magnetic field when changing speed/direction, do you know if this is the case?
03:46 AM pfred1: back EMF
03:46 AM pfred1: the PSU has to absorb that
03:47 AM pfred1: when they make SMPS they may cut corners with the filtering
03:48 AM pfred1: chinzy filter caps no choke
03:49 AM pfred1: good stuff costs money
03:50 AM MarcelineVQ: I see, and this translates to more rapid wear for the psu? Should I be researching filtering, cap or coil, between the psu and drivers? Come to think of it should I be looking into filter between motors and drivers or are those big old heatsinks on drivers for that purpose?
03:51 AM pfred1: I'd think in a surge situation a SMPS would just blow up
03:51 AM pfred1: that's the thing with active electronics they're delicate
03:51 AM MarcelineVQ: hmm I wonder what filtering role the driver plays, most cnc stepper kits I see have smps
03:52 AM pfred1: that's because people love money
03:52 AM MarcelineVQ: hah
03:52 AM RyanS: iI've never seen a single motor moving gantry in any plasma. i'm going to guess there's a reason
03:52 AM pfred1: moving gantries tend to rack
03:52 AM MarcelineVQ: at a completely blind guess: the faster you move the less torque you have, double the motors double the torque, keep your speed
03:53 AM MarcelineVQ: plasma tends to be a speedy operation, once you get past a certain size anyway
03:53 AM pfred1: nah they dual drive to cur down on racking
03:53 AM pfred1: if the gantry goes out of square it binds up
03:53 AM archivist: racking=rotation of the axis about the drive point
03:53 AM MarcelineVQ: I was about to ask why not a single screw down the middle but then my brain caught up to my fingers
03:54 AM RyanS: exactly. I have no idea why Ich is so keen on the idea
03:54 AM archivist: there are single screw designs and they are cheap and nasty
03:54 AM archivist: he is on a one track mind
03:54 AM pfred1: there's the pulley gambit
03:54 AM MarcelineVQ: If your single screw is up top it might work, I can only imagine the horrors of having it below the deck on a plasma
03:55 AM MarcelineVQ: Ich is a teacher, I think, so he probably wants people to get up an running before figuring out what's best :>
03:55 AM RyanS: one track, literally one track :P
03:55 AM pfred1: https://cockrum.net/images/Moving_knot_diagram.jpg
03:56 AM pfred1: this one I've seen more https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/3190/pulley.png
03:56 AM gloops__: interesting maybe bearings - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Roller-bearings/122780092099?
03:57 AM archivist: there was someone in here with a wire system, the tension was pulling his frame out of square
03:57 AM MarcelineVQ: fancy, what do you call pulley points like that, drum pulleys?
03:57 AM gloops__: you dont want one motor for a gantry (or bridge)
03:57 AM pfred1: moving gantry machines are no joke
03:58 AM archivist: gloops__, note the balls linear :)
03:58 AM pfred1: for it to work things have to be on the up and up
03:58 AM gloops__: archivist they are linear bearings i think
03:58 AM pfred1: that's why I went with a fixed gantry
03:58 AM archivist: so not "roller"
03:58 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops__: did you want linear bearings though is what he's asking
03:59 AM pfred1: it is real easy to keep the gantry square when it is screwed to the frame
03:59 AM gloops__: oh, yes i did/do, got some nice ones eyed up already though
03:59 AM archivist: finding gems with bad descriptions
03:59 AM gloops__: 30mm inner - useless for most cnc jobs
03:59 AM MarcelineVQ: archivist: it sure makes things tough sometimes, you lose money just spedning time browsing to save money :(
04:00 AM pfred1: once I started running my machine I realized i liked cutting small jobs
04:00 AM pfred1: I don't have stacks of plywood lyign around to cut up
04:00 AM archivist: MarcelineVQ, best thing is finding real bargains, got some Renishaw stuff
04:00 AM MarcelineVQ: pfred1: that's my current trouble-point in the build actually, what size of machine do I want
04:00 AM RyanS: theres a guy on here sometimes and on robotics, most things can be built for "$20".. I couldn't buy 3 bits of metal for $20
04:01 AM archivist: RyanS, try your local scrap yard
04:01 AM pfred1: MarcelineVQ if yoru machine is accurate to a thousandth of an inch it don't take a big object to make for impressive work
04:01 AM gloops__: the thing with big stuff, you need space, it isnt just about the machine
04:01 AM pfred1: yeah i hear scrap is down
04:01 AM MarcelineVQ: I'm leaning towards 4'x4' because then for things just a bit too big I can do a cut, move it, finish the cuts
04:02 AM gloops__: a pack of 8x4 mdf - and the items cut from it
04:02 AM MarcelineVQ: But that's fairly big for my space as well so it's still in the air hehe
04:02 AM RyanS: there's also those "build x in 10 minutes" tutorials
04:02 AM gloops__: spraying maybe, packing, storing
04:02 AM pfred1: my work envelope is only 16.5x16.5x5
04:03 AM MarcelineVQ: I'd like, down the road, to cut images into posts to make fences with. That'll be a different or updated machine though, I'm not starting with a rotary axis
04:03 AM gloops__: people dream - i can make 100 radiator cabinets a week
04:03 AM MarcelineVQ: a gatepost with images in it would add a lot of flavor
04:03 AM gloops__: in the garage
04:04 AM archivist: for that awkward job hang off the side http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1249.JPG
04:05 AM RyanS: I used to do it all the time, "those 4 holes will take 5 minutes " yeah right
04:06 AM archivist: can take a few hours just to find the bits to build a setup before any machining
04:06 AM gloops__: the thing with a large capacity machine, you can cut lots of small things from one big sheet in one go
04:06 AM gloops__: clamp once, touch off once - 50 components
04:07 AM archivist: unless thing sheet, then it starts lifting in the middle
04:07 AM archivist: thin
04:07 AM gloops__: true but there are solutions
04:07 AM gloops__: vacuum bed
04:08 AM gloops__: or - when designing mark some spots in the waste to be cut first, stop machine, screw job down in those spots- carry on
04:08 AM archivist: sometimes I make the blanks then use a jig for each part
04:10 AM gloops__: well a jig is ideal for things that are going to be made ongoing
04:13 AM RyanS: ahh, my favorite passtime, listening to heavy metal and doing CAD/web surfing \m/
04:13 AM Deejay: re
04:14 AM MarcelineVQ: sons of odin we four, by the hammer of thor
04:14 AM gloops__: i dont know how people listen to it and do anything requiring thought
04:14 AM RyanS: what's that?
04:14 AM gloops__: a lot of youtube vids from america have it - heavy metal
04:15 AM gloops__: its like yeah - would have been a good tutorial - without the noise!
04:15 AM MarcelineVQ: manowar, sons of odin, one of their 3 good songs :>
04:15 AM pfred1: you can mute videos
04:15 AM gloops__: i do haha
04:15 AM RyanS: i literally never used to listen to it until 2 years ago
04:16 AM pfred1: turn on subtitles
04:16 AM gloops__: each to their own, i suppose im just a bluff old traditionalist
04:17 AM MarcelineVQ: do you have specific kind of metal you like more?
04:17 AM pfred1: I like Vivaldi
04:18 AM RyanS: I find it relaxing, lol and i'm far from a metalhead
04:18 AM MarcelineVQ: pfred1: mm a power metal fan eh?
04:18 AM RyanS: Vivaldi is good and Beethoven
04:18 AM pfred1: MarcelineVQ rock the bach
04:19 AM pfred1: my musical tastes changed a while back
04:20 AM RyanS: MarcelineVQ stoner, doom, sludge metal. I Hate thrash or anything incoherently fast tempo
04:21 AM MarcelineVQ: doom? you a ghost fan?
04:21 AM MarcelineVQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EByMS7g7FIg
04:21 AM RyanS: never heard of it
04:21 AM MarcelineVQ: prepare to have a lovely evening then
04:21 AM pfred1: I like Doom
04:22 AM pfred1: I just got Zandronum running on my PC
04:22 AM RyanS: I'm listening to Acid Bath right now ahhhh
04:23 AM pfred1: I can't get sound to work in Gzdoom though
04:23 AM gloops__: lol archivist how big is your garage? its like the tardis lol, theres an endless array of different machines
04:25 AM gloops__: well soon be time to start banging outside
04:26 AM gloops__: 9 oclock is the start time - ive been like a vampire waiting for sunset
04:26 AM RyanS: MarcelineVQ hmm not sure about ghost..
04:27 AM archivist: gloops__, errrr 3 lathes a milling machine and a CMM and a bench + an assortment
04:28 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_04_15_glass_trolley/IMG_1526.JPG
04:28 AM gloops__: must just be the angles of the photos archivist, its like ive seen at least 7 different corners
04:28 AM RyanS: MarcelineVQ how about some Finnish stoner doom? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlM9wM6rsa0
04:28 AM archivist: that was before the CMM :)
04:29 AM archivist: and a filing machine and bench centres
04:29 AM archivist: trouble is uncovering something to use it
04:30 AM archivist: drivin miss daisy time....
04:30 AM gloops__: got to get the max out of the space
04:30 AM MarcelineVQ: not really into black metal voice, why is it called stoner doom though? what makes stoner metal?
04:32 AM RyanS: i dunno it's kind of psychedelic, slower tempo
04:33 AM RyanS: presumably the musicians are all stoned, lol
04:33 AM MarcelineVQ: slower tempo? that's enough to make a genre? someone calls Symphony X prog metal because they can't think if a better name for it but you can turn down the tempo and call it something new? hehe. guess it's not that surprising, speedcore and nightcore (and just about every core) are just sped up music too
04:34 AM RyanS: yeah, genre categories are kind of pointless
04:34 AM MarcelineVQ: symphony x is genius btw, just tossin that out there
04:37 AM RyanS: metalheads seem to like categorising everything, which is kind of unexpected
04:37 AM MarcelineVQ: are you saying pirate metal isn't really a genre? they'll keelhaul you!
04:38 AM RyanS: the one I linked sounds like pirate metal
04:38 AM pfred1: there's always pirate love https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-txRPiZ3rIQ
04:41 AM MarcelineVQ: that cover for some reason makes me think of phantom of the passion
04:42 AM MarcelineVQ: oops I awlays do that, phantom of the paradise
04:43 AM RyanS: I couldn't cope with the original vocalist, but the new one is better --completely deranged sounding as well but.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJKwySONpBk
04:44 AM pfred1: RyanS this is your theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_dXp0eF8s0
04:45 AM RyanS: funny how pleasant Black Sabbath is by comparison
04:47 AM MarcelineVQ: pfred1: weird, that voice sounds a lot like TISMs main vocal
04:47 AM pfred1: this came out in 1977
04:48 AM pfred1: wasn't a very big selling album
04:48 AM pfred1: they had a hard time givingthis one away
04:49 AM MarcelineVQ: geeze given the vocals, sound and content, I think there was some inspiration. this sounds exactly like tism's vocal
04:49 AM pfred1: well these screwballs definitely did it first
04:49 AM RyanS: I can't understand how Guns & Roses could be classed as metal, but some people do
04:49 AM MarcelineVQ: yeah tism wasn't formed till 82 or later
04:49 AM pfred1: I'd call Guns pop
04:50 AM RyanS: or Deaf Leopard, that's embarrassing to call metal
04:50 AM pfred1: hair metal
04:50 AM RyanS: or cock rock
04:51 AM pfred1: what was the other band that went with them the one with the gay lead singer?
04:51 AM pfred1: wheels of steel
04:51 AM pfred1: what was their name?
04:52 AM pfred1: nah not that band
04:52 AM pfred1: it totall escapes me right now
04:52 AM pfred1: judas priest
04:53 AM MarcelineVQ: lol
04:53 AM MarcelineVQ: they're nice boys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9UFQTBcdnc
04:53 AM pfred1: RyanS you like nazareth?
04:53 AM RyanS: I cracked up laughing the first time I saw an Iron Maiden film clip... it was cheesy
04:54 AM MarcelineVQ: does maiden have any good songs other than run to the hills?
04:54 AM pfred1: MarcelineVQ when that song plays that's exactly what I do
04:54 AM MarcelineVQ: My buddy really loves them but I never managed to feel it
04:55 AM pfred1: RyanS how about vanilla fudge?
04:56 AM pfred1: MC5?
04:56 AM RyanS: havent heard of either
04:56 AM pfred1: MC5 kind of invented heavy metal
04:57 AM pfred1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XhQRFO4M7A
05:00 AM pfred1: how about Blue Cheer?
05:00 AM pfred1: those guys dropped some bad acid at a hendric concert and the rest is history
05:00 AM RyanS: i think I must have gone from denial to 100 with metal, lol.
05:01 AM RyanS: that stuff sounds lightweight to me
05:01 AM pfred1: this was pretty heavy 40 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXcYZsqkZ-g
05:02 AM pfred1: iggy and the stooges?
05:03 AM XXCoder: BOO
05:03 AM RyanS: what happens 40 years from now. how much more extreme could we possibly get
05:03 AM pfred1: the stooges are still pretty extreme
05:04 AM pfred1: tv eye is an all time classic
05:04 AM pfred1: this is extreme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SD-uF8uisA
05:05 AM jthornton: morning
05:07 AM RyanS: hmm linux pc quit irc
05:07 AM RyanS: and rejoined
05:07 AM XXCoder: GHHHOST
05:07 AM XXCoder: or DAEMONS!!
05:09 AM pfred1: I think TV Eye still has it after all these years
05:11 AM XXCoder: wow huge dead snake https://youtu.be/IogEiKhEJFo
05:11 AM jthornton: dang I have 4.5GB of data to use today
05:12 AM RyanS: stream a movie to your chickens
05:13 AM MarcelineVQ: or of them
05:15 AM jthornton: wow chance of rain starting tonight and for the next 6 days\
05:15 AM MarcelineVQ: it might snow here in a few days, pretty dubious about that, but gotta blow out waterlines just in case :O
05:18 AM jthornton: I just had one hose to drain and put away then it got warmer
05:18 AM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: better waste some time than lots money
05:19 AM MarcelineVQ: that's right
05:37 AM pcw_mesa_ is now known as pcw_mesa
05:42 AM Krempel_ is now known as Krempel
08:18 AM nallar is now known as Ross
08:32 AM MarcelineVQ: 3 phase sure is amazing, wish our homes had it
08:32 AM MarcelineVQ: looking at a 3 phase rectifier, it's so smooth with just the diodes
08:49 AM archivist: get a VFD then you have 3 phase for your motor
08:51 AM Loetmichel: archivist: IIRC the americans still do rotating 3 phase converters here and there... ;)
08:52 AM MarcelineVQ: I've got a vfd in the mail at the moment, I'm looking into assembling an unregulated PSU so I'm learning about rectifiers, though there's not much to learn it's pretty straightforward. Given the cost of transformers though it probably wouldn't be a feat to jusy buy an unreglated already made.
08:52 AM Loetmichel: at least you can buy them new over the pond ;)
08:52 AM MarcelineVQ: then I don't have to worry about whether I've built within reasonable tolerances or if my cap selection was ideal
08:53 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: there is basically no "ideal". just "sufficient for the job" or "to small"... if in doubt: double up ;)
08:53 AM FinboySlick: MarcelineVQ: No, but you have to worry if the people who built it did so within reasonable tolerances or if their cap selection was ideal ;)
08:53 AM archivist: and electrolytics come with +100% tolerance
08:53 AM MarcelineVQ: hoho
08:54 AM MarcelineVQ: archivist: regretably I'm not sure what that means
08:55 AM Loetmichel: $me has a 3A variac with an 800W 24V transformer behind it... and 3 parallel 35A bridge rectifiers and 6 parallel 10000uF 63V electrolytics after that...
08:55 AM MarcelineVQ: As in I'm not sure if you're making a joke too clever for me or if that's their sfety margin you mean?
08:55 AM archivist: it means you buy a 1000uf and it can be 200uf
08:55 AM Loetmichel: you can even weld with that stuff ;)
08:55 AM MarcelineVQ: *safety margin.
08:55 AM archivist: 2000uf
08:55 AM MarcelineVQ: I see thank you
08:56 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: electrolytics usually can be much bigger capacity wise than their print suggests
08:56 AM Loetmichel: up to 100%
08:56 AM Loetmichel: they DO age though
08:56 AM nallar is now known as Ross
08:57 AM archivist: if on the other hand your capacitor is larger than needed, the pulse/charging current is over a smaller period thus larger
08:57 AM Loetmichel: so if they dried out from old age or heat they can have as little as 1% their printed on capacity.
08:57 AM MarcelineVQ: The ones on automationdirect use one big cap but most things I've been seeing suggest you're more likely to want a few smaller ones
08:58 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: the last conventional transformer PSU i did was for a servo drive a while ago... had some pretty decent caps on that...
08:58 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4757&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:59 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4760&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:59 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4739&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:59 AM Loetmichel: :-)
09:00 AM Loetmichel: only 80V 20A PSU though
09:00 AM Loetmichel: and only 45000uF capacitance on the output
09:01 AM archivist: poor diodes
09:01 AM MarcelineVQ: I'm after like, 40V @ 9 amps hehe
09:01 AM MarcelineVQ: you guys do get into some projects though
09:01 AM pcw_mesa_ is now known as pcw_mesa
09:05 AM MarcelineVQ: crackeds open an electric text I happen to have to look for rectifier circuit guidance, lists tubes for diodes, check date. '72
09:05 AM Loetmichel: harhar
09:05 AM archivist: they were on their way out by then
09:06 AM MarcelineVQ: I think the text is from 65 and the student was from 72
09:06 AM MarcelineVQ: either way, slightly out of date
09:06 AM Loetmichel: archivist: i had two parallel 35A bridge rectifiers on that concotion...
09:06 AM Loetmichel: i doubt they have any problems charging the caps.
09:06 AM archivist: if it fails you will find out :)
09:07 AM Loetmichel: especially when the toroid transformers there cant provide much more than 100A or so short circuit
09:07 AM Loetmichel: thats 35A cont. of course
09:07 AM Loetmichel: peak they can do about tenfold that
09:08 AM Loetmichel: so it will not fail at all
09:08 AM Loetmichel: you CAN hear the toroids humm for a second after switch on though ;)
09:09 AM archivist: the peak charging current can be somewhat large, can catch the odd noob out, but diodes dont care usually
09:09 AM Loetmichel: charging the caps ;)
09:09 AM sync: well, with that much output capacitance your charging angle is gonna be quite low
09:09 AM Loetmichel: sync: indeed
09:10 AM Loetmichel: its within reason though. not even 10000uF per amp
09:11 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: the "rule of thumb" for single phase rectifier caps is 1000uF for motor supply, 10000uF for audio supply
09:11 AM Loetmichel: per ampere
09:11 AM Loetmichel: so if you build a 40V 9A continous motor PSU you would need 9000uF on that
09:12 AM Loetmichel: or if it is a PSU for an audio amplifier its 90'000uF
09:12 AM Loetmichel: all for conventional 50/60Hz transformer PSUs though
09:12 AM MarcelineVQ: 9A is me bering very conservative, reality it more likely to be 5 or less, but it doesn't cost that much extra to be consertative
09:13 AM Loetmichel: correct
09:16 AM Loetmichel: my CNC mill at home runs with THAT now: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12808&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:16 AM MarcelineVQ: are toroids cheap where you live or something hehe
09:17 AM Loetmichel: after the old (ex-impact printer) 32V 2A switching PSU failed. (laying on the table)
09:18 AM JT-Shop: http://www.antekinc.com/power-supplies/
09:18 AM JT-Shop: that's what I used in the plasma
09:18 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: they tend to accumulate when you are into electronics for 40+ years ;)
09:18 AM archivist: we never used that large in audio
09:19 AM archivist: but on one amp we cheated a bit, the bias adjust also reduced the ripple feed through
09:21 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: btw: thats the miniCNC at home from the front: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:21 AM Loetmichel: the PSU and stepper driver sits on the brown back plate
09:21 AM FinboySlick: archivist: That made you sound like a Monster Cable salesman.
09:23 AM MarcelineVQ: FinboySlick: now with extra gold on the leads for faster electrons
09:23 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: that's really neat, the monitor is nearly the size of the machine
09:24 AM Loetmichel: ... and its only a 15" ;)
09:24 AM archivist: FinboySlick, we made commercial stuff not audiophool
09:25 AM archivist: tested wit a spectrum analyser not ears
09:25 AM Loetmichel: archivist: ... because ears lie!
09:26 AM archivist: had to lol at Denon and their network cable for 500 quid
09:26 AM archivist: lots of the internet was taking the mickey over that
09:31 AM MarcelineVQ: That's the first time I've heard that phrase used outside of a funny cartoon
09:31 AM archivist: https://www.cnet.com/news/denons-500-ethernet-cable/
09:36 AM gregcnc: The realtime errors I was having with an old install of 2.7.0 pre were fixed by updating to current stable. I'm sure it was fixed a long time ago. I ran with this error for a long time it seems and never lost steps (Gecko G320) until yesterday.
09:39 AM MarcelineVQ: you lost steps after updating or before?
09:41 AM gregcnc: I was running 2.7.0pre would occasionally get the realitme error, but never lost steps. Yesterday, machine would miss steps. Update to 2.7.11 solved.
10:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi from a sunny germay
10:16 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: still online
10:17 AM Loetmichel: sure
10:17 AM IchGucksLive: i got a wear signing of a elko
10:17 AM IchGucksLive: let me take a image
10:23 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=119919
10:23 AM IchGucksLive: where woudt you put minus
10:23 AM IchGucksLive: normaly there is a clear arrow on axial
10:24 AM Loetmichel: usually the side with the rubber cap is +
10:24 AM Loetmichel: so + left, - right
10:25 AM IchGucksLive: as i did
10:50 AM IchGucksLive: Radicarian: how coudt someone choose this nick
10:50 AM IchGucksLive: and why
10:50 AM IchGucksLive: its discasting
10:51 AM IchGucksLive: im off later
10:52 AM MarcelineVQ: idk what radicarian means in german but I guess it's not great
10:53 AM gregcnc: http://www.nglish.com/spanish/en/radicarian
10:54 AM MarcelineVQ: neat, though somehow that's even more confusing
10:54 AM gregcnc: wasn't fast enough, it's better to over react than do your homework
10:54 AM gloops__: lol, what?
10:55 AM gloops__: cant see anything offensive about it
10:58 AM Radicarian: I'm lame, I just look up old words that nobody has used since the 1700's
10:58 AM Radicarian: It's just a way to not need multiple words or numbers at the end of a nick
10:58 AM gloops__: good, all those old words should be revived
10:58 AM gregcnc: I thought maybe you were particularly fond of root vegetables
10:58 AM Radicarian: Since it's unlikely anyone will have used them
10:59 AM gloops__: + we should all return to 1700s clothes and hairstyles
10:59 AM Radicarian: I back it
11:00 AM slipalong: Guy's, stupid question but z axis on a mill. Z0 is at the bottom and in my case z300 is at the top.
11:01 AM miss0r: is there a question in there? :)
11:01 AM slipalong: is z0 on the table or up at the top on a mill?
11:01 AM miss0r: table, usualy
11:02 AM slipalong: thats what I thought
11:02 AM slipalong: I have made a part on F360 and user the linuxcnc post precessing
11:02 AM Radicarian: You mean machine Z0?
11:03 AM gregcnc: But that should only be machine coordinates G53
11:03 AM slipalong: at the beginning and end of the program the tool (if I have one fitted) would get smashed into the table as there is a Z0 command
11:03 AM Radicarian: I usually set Z0 at the top of my part
11:03 AM slipalong: so what I did was homed all the axis
11:04 AM slipalong: Z300 (mm) is home
11:04 AM slipalong: then touched of the z at 54mm
11:04 AM gloops__: touch the tool off the table to establish z zero
11:04 AM gregcnc: by G54 offset?
11:04 AM gloops__: if you have the table for 0
11:05 AM slipalong: no tool loaded as Im just practicing before I break stuff
11:06 AM slipalong: so the g code is set to use G54 work co-ordinages
11:07 AM slipalong: I touch-off z at 50mm above table
11:07 AM Radicarian: Set G54 Z0 to the top of your part if you're programming that way
11:07 AM Radicarian: I think it's safer to do it that way unless there's a specific reason otherwise
11:08 AM slipalong: is there a good tutorial somewhere I think Im missing soemthing
11:08 AM gregcnc: slipalong it sounds right, what do you think is missing?
11:08 AM gloops__: where are you setting 0 in fusion?
11:09 AM slipalong: At the beginning and end of the F360 code the z is plunging to machine z 0
11:09 AM slipalong: bad news if I had a tool and tool holder in!!!!
11:09 AM slipalong: v expensive
11:09 AM gregcnc: what you are trying to do is set the work offsets for G54 to match the coordinate system in the CAM
11:09 AM gloops__: in the job setup in 360 you should have an option to set the z0 relative to the job - usually work surface or table
11:10 AM gregcnc: That's setup in Fusion
11:10 AM gregcnc: there is an option for home position for the machine
11:10 AM slipalong: ah ok I need to look at that. Maybe that the problem
11:10 AM gloops__: greg - fusion has fixed z pos?
11:10 AM gregcnc: does your program contain G28 or G53?
11:10 AM gregcnc: it can
11:11 AM gloops__: slipalong the design you make and the subsequent code has to be synonymous with the 0 values you give the machine
11:12 AM gregcnc: that's isn't the problem
11:12 AM slipalong: N20 G53 G0 Z0.
11:12 AM gloops__: if the g code is working on work surface z0 and youre touching off the bed - the code will cut into the bed
11:12 AM slipalong: is whats crashing it
11:12 AM gregcnc: gloops__ no
11:13 AM gregcnc: fusion sends teh machine home for toolchange prior to and after the program
11:13 AM slipalong: Z0 is a bad place for a tool change
11:13 AM gregcnc: since home is G53Z0 that's where it goes
11:13 AM cradek: G53 Z0 is "all the way up" on a normally-configured machine
11:13 AM slipalong: G53 is machine co-ordinates is it?
11:14 AM gregcnc: thats' the best solution
11:14 AM slipalong: ok so I have Z300 at the top and z0 at the bottom
11:14 AM slipalong: so my ini file is wrong
11:14 AM gregcnc: so now top is Z0 and table is -300
11:15 AM slipalong: that the problem!!
11:15 AM slipalong: has to be me
11:15 AM Radicarian: Operator error
11:15 AM Radicarian: xD
11:15 AM slipalong: I was reading docs on the cartesian system and it says x0 Y0 z0 is where the axis cross so I assumed that wa in the middle
11:16 AM slipalong: doh!
11:16 AM slipalong: thanks guys!!
11:16 AM slipalong: back to the garage
11:16 AM gregcnc: My Emco has G53Z0 at the table. I changed the home position in CAM so it goes to Z+ whatever. The option is there because when you buy a machine it's not easy to change
11:17 AM Radicarian: Are y'all machinist for work or hobbyists?
11:18 AM slipalong: Well Im an IT engineer and haven't used machine tools in 30 years.
11:18 AM gregcnc: the entire spectrum is present
11:19 AM gloops__: i wont be using any machine tools for 30 years going by the time its taking chinese shipping
11:19 AM gregcnc: did the container ship sink?
11:20 AM archivist: it went via AU
11:20 AM gloops__: i think the captain stopped off to raise a family
11:36 AM Radicarian: @gloops hahaha
11:54 AM slipalong: I ordered a cheap carbide parting off tool from China 2 months ago and its still not arrived.
12:01 PM archivist: since using a named parting tool, I never want to go back to crap parting tools
12:02 PM archivist: although a few weeks ago did part off plastic with a HSS tool
12:07 PM Radicarian: Unless it's for hobby stuff I wouldn't ever buy Chinese tooling
12:10 PM slipalong: My tool came with 10 inserts so I will go through then and try some named brands
12:12 PM Radicarian: What material are you cutting?
12:13 PM slipalong: Mild Steel
12:15 PM slipalong: I had a problem with a HSS fly-cutter and bough a Chinese 40mm face mill with carbide inserts and it works a treat.
12:15 PM slipalong: almost mirror finish at 2500 rpm
12:15 PM slipalong: very impressed
12:16 PM slipalong: The HSS was just rubbing on the black crust on the outside of the steel
12:17 PM slipalong: you do have to wind up the RPM with the carbide or it just chips.
12:17 PM slipalong: one day I will apply some science and learn about speeds and feeds
12:18 PM archivist: with crust you need a deep first cut to get under the skin
12:19 PM archivist: mild steel work hardens which is another thing to catch the unwary
12:20 PM slipalong: Yes I read about both these issues. There a lot to learn
12:23 PM slipalong: On my old Chester drill mill a HSS fly-cutter the motor was struggling with a .25 - .5 depth of cut
12:23 PM archivist: free cutting mild steel is nicer to use
12:23 PM slipalong: whats that?
12:23 PM slipalong: end mill?
12:23 PM archivist: a different grade of steel
12:24 PM slipalong: ah got ya
12:24 PM jelly-home is now known as jelly
12:24 PM archivist: fly cutters can only ever manage a small depth of cut
12:24 PM slipalong: my local steel stockholder isn't that great
12:24 PM slipalong: Are you in the UK?
12:24 PM archivist: yes
12:25 PM archivist: beer town
12:25 PM slipalong: can you recommend any mail order sell places
12:25 PM slipalong: Tadcaster?
12:25 PM archivist: pfft
12:25 PM archivist: Burton upon Trent
12:26 PM slipalong: LOL
12:26 PM archivist: tadcaster probably only had one or two breweries
12:26 PM slipalong: That us true
12:26 PM archivist: we had a railway system due to the qty
12:27 PM slipalong: I live need Lewis so its Harveys for me
12:29 PM slipalong: So this Free cutting mild steel has it got an EN number I will see if I can get hold of it
12:29 PM slipalong: This it EN3 I get at the moment
12:30 PM archivist: I use a sandvik parting off tool http://www.greenwood-tools.co.uk/shop/boring-and-parting-tools/kit-q-cut-parting-tool-66276.html
12:32 PM archivist: I get the tips elsewhere though
12:33 PM slipalong: This is what Im waiting for https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPB26-3-26mm-Parting-Grooving-Cut-Off-Tool-Holder-10pcs-GTN-3-SP300-Insert/263147041971?hash=item3d44c934b3:g:e0YAAOSwENpZkqLF
12:33 PM archivist: that is a shortened version so it fits modeller myfords etc
12:33 PM archivist: effin cheap!
12:34 PM slipalong: The stuff is just dirt cheep, but it takes weeks to come.
12:34 PM slipalong: Seems ok quality for home use also
12:34 PM JT-Shop: watch those bars vibrate a bit and break very easy
12:35 PM archivist: make sure on center and lathe is solid
12:35 PM archivist: and work as close to headstock as possible
12:36 PM archivist: and then the sandvik one cuts like butter
12:36 PM slipalong: When I first started using my Chester I was using way too low RPM and chipping carbide tools all the time
12:40 PM archivist: HSS with a flat top though is better on a brass,
01:31 PM IchGucksLive: hi
01:32 PM gloops: evening
01:32 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
01:37 PM gloops: according to Roarks formulas, a 1 inch thick mahogany board 16 inch long, 7 inch wide, under 30lb load, bends 0.001 inches
01:37 PM gloops: .002 unsupported ends
01:38 PM archivist: note how the same area of a tube is much stiffer than a solid of the same area
01:39 PM archivist: this is where shape trumps material
01:39 PM gloops: the z axis is difficult to ponder
01:39 PM gloops: using tubes you move the centre of leverage
01:40 PM gloops: how much pressure is the z axis mounting getting? who knows
01:40 PM archivist: put a dti on it and watch it bend
01:40 PM gloops: yes thats the only way
01:41 PM gloops: unless you go through a lot of calculations
01:41 PM archivist: a drawing and FEA package is the software way
01:42 PM gloops: or build ott
01:43 PM archivist: I was getting about 15 thou flex on first attempt
01:43 PM gloops: on a steel mill axis?
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: searching for a low cost resolutio instad of real AL -profiles
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: what about carbon cncret
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: concreat
01:45 PM gloops: just the z axis really, i can make one that wont bend, but some work involved
01:45 PM gloops: or get £70 quid out for some ally plates
01:45 PM gloops: that may still bend
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: z axis is alwaysa miss on stability to worklength
01:46 PM gloops: ive got everything in to make some from fibreglass, 25mm thick probably better than ally
01:47 PM IchGucksLive: 45x45 with to stabels and 4 corner chucks will not bent up to 400mm long free
01:47 PM IchGucksLive: "siebdruckplatte " is the way i go it has 9 layers in ine inch
01:47 PM gloops: well the beam not not bend but by being forward it will throw leverage onto the y axis
01:48 PM IchGucksLive: screen printing plate
01:48 PM gloops: so your Z would still move if the Y rails twist
01:49 PM IchGucksLive: the whole wood mill is out of this stuff
01:49 PM IchGucksLive: and it so stable
01:50 PM gloops: ill think about it, i dont wan to fork any more out yet
01:50 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: what is the next homedepo to look at the wood if they got it
01:53 PM IchGucksLive: https://www.hornbach.de/shop/Siebdrucksperrholz-Sieb-Film-18x1250x2500-mm/5017764/artikel.html THIS Stuff
01:54 PM IchGucksLive: the mill is mate out of one Shiet 75Euros
01:54 PM IchGucksLive: made ;-)
01:56 PM IchGucksLive: ok its wood but waterthight
01:56 PM IchGucksLive: today i finished another 2 mashines mini cnc
01:57 PM IchGucksLive: will get a full set 12 mashines by wendsday
01:59 PM IchGucksLive: hi makerman
01:59 PM IchGucksLive: ehat did you make today
02:08 PM gloops: Ichs ive got an old piece of mahogany, would make a nice Z, but can also make with box section steel, just thinking aloud really, wood would be easy to work with, drill etc
02:09 PM gloops: the mahogany weighs half a stone
02:12 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: this is the Z http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=119926
02:12 PM gloops: yes as archivist says - shape trumps material
02:13 PM IchGucksLive: i also recived a mounting image
02:13 PM IchGucksLive: of someones new wood made by my drawings
02:14 PM gloops: a box made with wood is very strong
02:14 PM gloops: if the twin towers had been made with wood they wouldnt have fallen down
02:17 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/montage.jpg
02:19 PM gloops: how is it for fixing Ichs? no looseness in the bolts or screws?#
02:20 PM IchGucksLive: until now i havent heard about
02:21 PM gloops: it does seem a bit incorrect to go to the trouble of ballscrews and precision rails then use wood for plates, but in theory it is acceptable
02:21 PM IchGucksLive: but as you may know you only got one shot at fasten wood
02:21 PM IchGucksLive: agree
02:22 PM IchGucksLive: im off its is a big halooween party in town
02:22 PM gloops: have a nice time
02:22 PM IchGucksLive: seeing the huge firer ineed to go there
03:07 PM gregcnc: halloween must be a serious event in germany. friday a guy told me he couldn't ship my item until thursday due to holiday
03:08 PM MarcelineVQ: when the named days come around the beer comes out
03:10 PM syyl: its not about haloween here
03:10 PM syyl: its because there are two days holyday in a row
03:11 PM syyl: one katholic, one protestant
03:21 PM * JT-Shop finally figured out what this special tool was that I brought home from the other shop...
03:22 PM MarcelineVQ: an egg opener
03:25 PM gloops: jelly cutter?
03:25 PM gregcnc: is everythign closed?
03:25 PM gregcnc: syyl
03:26 PM syyl: pretty much
03:26 PM syyl: gas stations are open
03:26 PM syyl: and shops at train stations are open
03:26 PM syyl: and bars/restaurants
03:26 PM gregcnc: huh i didn't know OK them maybe I don't have to worry
03:26 PM JT-Shop: a jumper bar cutter for Automation Direct terminal blocks lol
03:29 PM gregcnc: hmmm https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/goodwell/be-the-first-battery-free-powered-toothbrush/
03:30 PM MarcelineVQ: shakeweight with a brush?
03:31 PM syyl: with a rubber-motor
03:31 PM syyl: (or spring)
03:31 PM gregcnc: i'm guessing clock spring with a flywheel
03:31 PM JT-Shop: lol spent 1/2 the time talking about batteries lol
03:32 PM syyl: not going to watch a bullshit-kickstarter-video.
03:32 PM syyl: they all seem to be made by the same marketing-agency
03:32 PM gregcnc: i don't know why they have to fluff the fluff to sell that
03:32 PM JT-Shop: $127,000 raised so far...
03:32 PM JT-Shop: ain't getting any of my money lol
03:33 PM gregcnc: if it works, market should love it
03:34 PM MarcelineVQ: I use a manual toothbrush so something like this isn't the worst possible idea, assuming it is just some flywheel for a bit of extra brush motion, but it's not something to pay for that's for sure. not when an entire pack of brushes is 4$
03:35 PM MarcelineVQ: it's amazing what people will toss their money at, some people buy products that don't exists yet, some people make cnc machines :>
03:37 PM * JT-Shop gets a monkey pickle and has some quality time with the chickens
03:37 PM MarcelineVQ: unpon review this is a rotary head brush, bleh, toss it in the trasshhh
03:37 PM XXCoder: https://interestingengineering.com/samsung-builds-bitcoin-mining-rig-using-40-old-galaxy-s5s
03:44 PM gloops: sorted it slipalong?
04:13 PM JT-Shop: I hate cutting out a panel for a HMI... such a PIA
04:17 PM XXCoder: wow
04:17 PM XXCoder: this is least rainy washington fall ever
04:18 PM XXCoder: so far, 4 rainy days in few weeks
04:18 PM XXCoder: normally its 10 rains a week
04:26 PM Jymmm: When you get a planer like this and it says 3.5"blade, is that fully usable ? the limits? or is there added margin that I could get away with? I need 3.75" https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-6-5-Amp-1-Blade-Planer/50406006
04:33 PM roycroft: it's usually the actual width of the knives, jymmm
04:36 PM gregcnc: jymmm which California will you end up in? have they proposed any names yet?
04:56 PM gregcnc: is there a metric/iso version of Machinery's Handbook?
04:57 PM gregcnc: equivalent
05:07 PM Deejay: gn8
05:16 PM syyl: yes gregcnc
05:16 PM syyl: and its better ;)
05:16 PM syyl: https://www.amazon.de/Mechanical-Trades-Handbook-Ulrich-Fischer/dp/3808519142
05:16 PM syyl: thats what you want
05:17 PM MarcelineVQ: spindle and vfd showed up, spindle's smaller than I expected but it's heavy heavy
05:17 PM gregcnc: super, thanks!
05:19 PM MarcelineVQ: syyl: cheaper too, for me anyway
05:20 PM syyl: haha
05:20 PM syyl: even with size-comparisation
05:20 PM syyl: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31utIMTifWL.jpg
05:38 PM JT-Shop: Mechanical and Metal Trades Handbook (Englisch)
06:04 PM JT-Shop: damn UPS drivers are getting inventive on places to leave packages
06:08 PM syyl: wait until they drop it in the trashbin
06:08 PM syyl: "it was an obvious place to put it!"
06:09 PM pfred1: circular filed
06:10 PM JT-Shop: funny I heard the truck but he didn't drive up my driveway
06:10 PM JT-Shop: scared no place to turn around I guess
06:12 PM pfred1: as scared as a bicyclist in battery Park?
06:14 PM JT-Shop: battery park is unknown by me
06:15 PM * JT-Shop listens to the Moody Blues while making wiring harnesses for this panel
06:15 PM pfred1: some wacky paki just mowed down 8 bicyclists there today
06:15 PM pfred1: witnesses claim he was looking for the snackbar
06:16 PM JT-Shop: damn idiot... I'm in a cave usually
06:16 PM pfred1: usually a safe place to be
06:17 PM pfred1: Truck attack in Manhattan kills 8 in 'act of terror' http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/us/new-york-shots-fired/index.html
06:17 PM JT-Shop: another reason I prefer to ride mountain bike with a 9mm on my hip
06:17 PM pfred1: I'm telling ya
06:17 PM pfred1: unfortunately the lemmings in NYC don't have that option open to them
06:18 PM MarcelineVQ: where's a gang member when you need one
06:18 PM pfred1: probably up town
06:25 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, since you've got data to burn scroll down and take your pick: https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/20-greatest-classic-moody-blues-songs
06:28 PM JT-Shop: cool
06:29 PM Tom_L: some of those i haven't heard
06:33 PM JT-Shop: yea a couple I've never heard before
06:48 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: I've never seen a video of them before quite interesting thanks
06:48 PM JT-Shop: I used to play them on my walkman on my way to Africa to work each month
06:58 PM Tom_L: how is it you figure out what pulleys you need and they're either special order or the belt is
06:59 PM Tom_L: i didn't want to but i may stick Z on top and run it direct
07:00 PM Tom_L: i forgot how to get a bom from catia
07:03 PM Tom_L: ahh there it is
07:03 PM jdh: you da bom
07:04 PM Tom_L: hah i imported some of the parts
07:04 PM Tom_L: part of the bom is in german
07:11 PM pfred1: impart the ports
07:18 PM pfred1: happy Halloween
07:33 PM gloops: watching tesla factory on TV - like where are the people?
07:33 PM pfred1: gloops what people?
07:33 PM syyl: thats not how manufacturing in a highprice country works ;)
07:34 PM gregcnc: people want wages and smoke breaks, if they bother showing up
07:34 PM pfred1: you're damned tootin
07:34 PM gloops: maybe, but robots dont buy cars
07:35 PM pfred1: so
07:35 PM malcom2073: Smart people who program robots do
07:35 PM gloops: how many people is that?
07:35 PM malcom2073: Hence: They don't need to build that many
07:35 PM malcom2073: most people aren't smart
07:35 PM pfred1: we ain't paying them either
07:36 PM gregcnc: don't worry zuckerberg and musk will pay people who don't have jobs because of bots
07:36 PM malcom2073: They're thinking about it, yeah
07:36 PM pfred1: they're sendign the cash to Mars
07:37 PM gloops: but unemployment isnt down since the 50s
07:37 PM gloops: people must be doing something
07:38 PM pfred1: they're doing opioids
07:39 PM gloops: dog walking i guess
07:39 PM pfred1: they got McJobs
07:39 PM gregcnc: things are basically how they have always been and always will be
07:40 PM gloops: i think some jobs are phoney, i know some data input clerks still going - thats obsolete these days really
07:40 PM pfred1: well, there was a time when most folks worked the land
07:40 PM gloops: moving data from one form to another
07:40 PM gloops: i think a big firm just agrees to employ x number of people
07:41 PM pfred1: until farming got mechanized 52% of the population worked the fields
07:41 PM gloops: whether they need them or not
07:41 PM pfred1: now 1% farm
07:41 PM gloops: Brown&Co creating 100 new jobs in your area whuppee
07:41 PM gloops: bit the population is up 90%
07:42 PM pfred1: but those displaced people got jobs in factories
07:42 PM gloops: making tractors
07:42 PM pfred1: that's the ticket
07:42 PM pfred1: then those jobs got outsourced
07:44 PM gloops: this whole thing is going to crash one day
07:44 PM malcom2073: pfred1: There is a fair amount of work automating data entry and other menial computer tasks, I do sidework doign that sort ofs tuff, basically putting people out of jobs
07:44 PM pfred1: who says it isn't crashing now?
07:44 PM gregcnc: people still have money
07:45 PM pfred1: do they?
07:45 PM gregcnc: no, but they think they do
07:45 PM pfred1: no one has had any money since we went off the gold standard
07:45 PM gregcnc: pftt
07:45 PM gregcnc: they get checks and can buy things
07:45 PM pfred1: In God We Trust
07:46 PM gregcnc: gold will taste great if things get real bad
07:48 PM gregcnc: time to finish those parts from yesterday
07:49 PM Vitran: I got the lathe powered up and it did a little bit of moving
07:49 PM pfred1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGfkPCZYfFw
07:50 PM malcom2073: Love those videos
07:52 PM pfred1: The Floppotron
07:56 PM malcom2073: I got one of those midi to gcode converters a while back to run on my 3d printer.
07:57 PM Vitran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKpcWnJr-tg
07:57 PM Vitran: It is much easier to do that with a .x6g hex code than with gcode though.
08:00 PM Vitran: On my machine, I turned the machine on, found out the spindle and servo enables were wired in reverse (which I corrected) and am now trying to tune the servos.
08:01 PM Vitran: I'm at that point. Yay. Lathe working coming soon, I hope. Unless I break something
08:02 PM gloops: whats that bit on the table Vitran?
08:03 PM Vitran: gloops. What bit? table?
08:04 PM gloops: the bit with the two paper clips on it
08:04 PM Vitran: Oh, that's not my video
08:04 PM Vitran: That is a 3D printer
08:05 PM Vitran: they have the glass sheet held down with the paper clips
08:05 PM Vitran: That way you can remove the sheet or replace the sheet if it is damaged. Also, printing on glass is generally very good. I have found lemon juice on glass works quite well
08:05 PM gloops: ahh right
08:16 PM malcom2073: Man, craigslist really shows you the uh.... less intelligent side of people
08:19 PM Vitran: I've never had much luck with Craigslist. Kijiji yeah, but Craigslist always seems odd
08:19 PM malcom2073: what yeah?
08:19 PM Vitran: Maybe just not too many people using it. I'm in Ontario
08:19 PM Vitran: I don't seem to see many things I am interested in on it
08:19 PM malcom2073: Perhaps, I'm middle east coast, so pretty dense here
08:19 PM Vitran: but I do see a lot of odd things on it
08:19 PM malcom2073: I'm trying to sell a vehicle, which is a whole other world of interesting heh
08:20 PM malcom2073: Even more so, I'm actually trying to *trade* one vehicle for another
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: malcom2073: Chev E 4sal, new caddilac converter, breaks windowshield, god runer
08:24 PM malcom2073: Heh gud runer*
08:24 PM malcom2073: I don't even go out of my way anymore. I used to try to conform to other peoples schedules, but nowadays I just say "Come between these hours if you wanna see it"
08:25 PM CaptHindsight: yeah and most don't show
08:25 PM malcom2073: Yep, I'm on my third since last week that didn't show tonight
08:25 PM malcom2073: Didn't matter to me, Iwas in the garage waiting, and working heh
08:26 PM CaptHindsight: i usually have them call before they are on the way, then give them a place to meet
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: otherwise it's like they want to drive by and see the car when ever they drive by
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: even if I tell them it's in a garage
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: please leave car out where we can see it, preferably with keys
08:28 PM seb_kuzminsky is now known as pycam-github
08:28 PM malcom2073: I've only actually gotten to the point of giving someone an address once out of the last three, and he responded a half hour later saying he couldn't make it, he would call me tomorrow, and never did (last week)
08:29 PM malcom2073: The others didn't even get to the address phase heh, they set up a time, and I said I'd text my address when I got home from work, they stopped responding when I tried to see if they were good before I sent it
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, sounds like the same crap here
08:29 PM pycam-github is now known as seb_kuzminsky
08:29 PM malcom2073: People are the same everywhere :)
08:30 PM malcom2073: Shame too, causethat guy had a dodge stealth he was gonna trade, seemed like it could be a fun car
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: on the other hand I've made an appointment to see a car an hour drive away only to get there with them having already sold it minutes before I arrive
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: with no call
08:30 PM malcom2073: I've been fortunate to not have that happen to me yet
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: I asked them what kind of person does that to someone that just drove 40 miles (80 miles RT)?
08:31 PM Vitran: had that happen with a shop we were to move into. The guy sold it before telling us as we were moving there
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: nice
08:32 PM malcom2073: Ouch
08:32 PM Vitran: on one hand, it was bad. On the other, it is better to learn that sort of stuff about your landlord before he has your money
08:33 PM malcom2073: Very true
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: commercial/industrial owners around here are the worst
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: met nicer crack dealers
08:35 PM CaptHindsight: the agents are even worse
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: tell them you need 5-8K sq ft and you'll only get listings starting at 8K sq ft
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: most 9-15k
08:36 PM malcom2073: Tell them your budget is $2-3k a month, they'll give you 7-8k
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: yup
08:37 PM malcom2073: when I went to go buy a car, I told them I wanted $150 a month car payment, I knew they'd try to oversell me. Walked out with $200 a month, which was $50 below what was my *real* target heh
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: the worst are the price negotiable or not listed
08:37 PM malcom2073: I've found lying to salespeople is the best thing to do
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: NNN is complete silliness
08:37 PM malcom2073: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: heh car dealers
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: I usually look around and tell them I'm not buying today unless they pay me to take it
08:39 PM malcom2073: heh
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: and I don't spin their wheels
08:39 PM malcom2073: I look online at their listings, and go there to look at a specific car
08:39 PM malcom2073: Wouldn't let them show me anything but the one I came for
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: leave me alone, don't waste out time, just looking
08:40 PM malcom2073: Yeah
08:40 PM CaptHindsight: out/our
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: on average CL ads in the country works out much better than in the cities
08:41 PM malcom2073: Oh definently
08:41 PM malcom2073: People in the country are way more laid back
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: they are usually worried about me with a city slicker phone number
08:41 PM malcom2073: Heh
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: have you come across the low priced CL ad for something and then watch the price go up until it sells
08:46 PM malcom2073: heh I've not, what's that game?
08:46 PM sync: malcom2073: unless the gto was working it is not a fun car
08:46 PM sync: a suprising amount of stuff that can and will break in it
08:46 PM malcom2073: sync: It ran great, he had just done the big 120k mile service
08:47 PM malcom2073: I'm still hoping he'll respond, but I seriously doubt it
08:48 PM sync: depending on the model year it has 4 wheel steer
08:48 PM sync: which is usually broken
08:48 PM malcom2073: Nope, FWD, non turbo
08:49 PM malcom2073: It's pretty much the only model worth getting (assuming well maintained)
08:49 PM malcom2073: I love the idea of 4WS, but it scares me too much to try it
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: too many calls the price is too low
08:49 PM sync: ah the z11a, well
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: raise the price until the calls stop then lower slightly
08:50 PM sync: the 4ws works pretty well, if it does
08:50 PM malcom2073: CaptHindsight: Nice heh
08:52 PM seb_kuzminsky is now known as pycam-github
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: thats not a GTO! This is a GTO :) https://www.coolridesonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1970_pontiac_gto_judge.jpg
08:53 PM malcom2073: CaptHindsight: For those who like their cars to start in the morning, no
08:53 PM malcom2073: :P
08:53 PM pycam-github is now known as seb_kuzminsky
09:43 PM homeroot is now known as evilroot
09:44 PM evilroot: mmmm, GTO
09:44 PM evilroot: The Judge!
09:46 PM evilroot: Well, some of them
09:47 PM Vitran: Me when people talk about GTO https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Greater_toronto_area_map.svg/1200px-Greater_toronto_area_map.svg.png
09:48 PM Vitran: And then I think of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Teacher_Onizuka before I think about the car....
09:49 PM evilroot: Wow, that brings back the memories
09:49 PM evilroot: Onizuka was one of my favorites in the day
09:50 PM Vitran: There is a live action of GTO. It is better to not know about it
09:58 PM evilroot: I'm aware
09:58 PM evilroot: Painfully so
09:59 PM Vitran: I'm heading off. Under the weather here.