#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 28 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:30 AM MarcelineVQ: hello
01:30 AM XXCoder: hey
01:31 AM RyanS: afternoon from earth
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: hi RyanS
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: how is it down there
01:32 AM XXCoder: new primitive tech!
01:33 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7wAJTGl2gc
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: best to go
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: im only getting win 64 question on how to drive a cnc
01:37 AM RyanS: it's umm, how would someone describe earth's conditions after we colonize other planets and the phrase "where are you from?" is answered with your planet of residence
01:38 AM RyanS: like would i say Melbourne, Australia, Earth
01:38 AM MarcelineVQ: You just put New infront of everything
01:39 AM MarcelineVQ: And Old if it's earth
01:39 AM RyanS: or Terra
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: terra australia is also comen
01:40 AM RyanS: I'm from Pluto and its fucking freezing
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: pluto is not a planet
01:41 AM RyanS: i cant wait until summer in 200 years
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: im not gone make it
01:42 AM MarcelineVQ: not with that attitude
01:42 AM RyanS: there's debate about plutos planethood
01:43 AM IchGucksLive: we need to find the walker first that got this tiny differences
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: there is still one planet missing
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: but i guess we lost him
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: as the kickoff did not retun in early game quater
01:45 AM RyanS: someone i knows 7 year old cried when they knocked pluto off the planet list--science nerd in the making
01:46 AM RyanS: "how could they do that to pluto!"
01:47 AM IchGucksLive: thay had to as 6more its size and even bigger are out there
01:48 AM IchGucksLive: so now we got a new category
01:48 AM RyanS: but mercury is tiny too
01:49 AM IchGucksLive: agree but its in the inner zone
01:50 AM RyanS: sounds like a nice temperature on mercury
01:50 AM IchGucksLive: and its twice the size as i goog
01:51 AM RyanS: i goog?
01:51 AM IchGucksLive: https://astrokramkiste.de/planeten-tabelle
01:52 AM IchGucksLive: its realy a mess there 50days in -173 and 50days in 450
01:52 AM IchGucksLive: you ned eighter good cloth and good head protection
01:53 AM IchGucksLive: or a traveling house to stay in side -10 +40
01:54 AM IchGucksLive: and i guess also a very good UV protectio n
01:54 AM IchGucksLive: im off later !!
01:54 AM RyanS: summer wear on mercury http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-dm6fx/products/631/images/224/124__45920.1467182530.386.513.jpg?c=2
02:00 AM miss0r: mornin'
02:37 AM Deejay: moin
02:37 AM RyanS: could the 7i76e be used for servos if the drives accept step/dir signals?
02:58 AM gloops: not got into ethernet yet, dont know if i will need to
02:59 AM gloops: its the same with many things, the original objective can be lost once designing begins and different options are considered
03:00 AM gloops: the build becomes a an objective in itself
03:01 AM gloops: i mean like, things are added because they can be added, because they seem superior maybe or add in some way to the overall status of the machine
03:01 AM gloops: but make no extra contribution to the original requirements
03:44 AM archivist: RyanS, step/dir servos yes dunno if it can deal with those that also allow the host to see the encoder for closed loop
03:56 AM gloops: well, no postman today, on with the mundane tasks
04:08 AM gloops: how to surface an 8x8 inch square with no surface grinder or mill
04:09 AM MarcelineVQ: scraping :>
04:10 AM gloops: pfff lol
04:10 AM MarcelineVQ: how about an epoxy that doesn't shrink as it sets, cover the surface, let gravity smooth it
04:10 AM syyl: good luck
04:10 AM gloops: its a box section frame welded
04:10 AM syyl: surface tension will mess it up
04:10 AM gloops: yes will still need surfacing
04:10 AM syyl: "scrape" it with the anglegrinder
04:11 AM syyl: find the highspots and work them localy down
04:11 AM gloops: could rough it with angle grinder
04:11 AM gloops: but if i mount angle grinder over lathe that would work
04:11 AM gloops: or a grinding wheek
04:11 AM gloops: wheel
04:12 AM gloops: making machines to make a machine..lol i didnt want to get into that
04:12 AM syyl: just freehand it
04:12 AM gloops: take ages
04:12 AM gloops: not get a good finish, but i guess you would get reasonably flat
04:13 AM MarcelineVQ: lathe? I'm guessing your lathe swing is smaller than the hpypotenuse of an 8" triangle?
04:14 AM gloops: if i bolt the frame to the top slide, have gfrinder over headed, can manouvre the frame to all points under the wheel
04:14 AM gloops: just raise it incrementally with washers
04:14 AM MarcelineVQ: guess that's 12" swing, that's pretty big lathe after all
04:15 AM archivist: bolt to cross slide, fly cutter in the chuck
04:15 AM gloops: cant get 8 inch past the cutter
04:16 AM archivist: or take to someone with a big enough machine
04:16 AM gloops: it can be done with grinder, if grinder can be mounted rigid
04:17 AM archivist: steam engine time anyway, last of the year http://www.middleton-leawood.org.uk/leawood/photos.html
04:18 AM gloops: have a nice day
05:24 AM jthornton: morning
05:25 AM RyanS: o/
05:25 AM MarcelineVQ: 3 phase induction motors are so dang cool
05:28 AM jthornton: 31F
05:28 AM MarcelineVQ: it's gettin down there
05:29 AM MarcelineVQ: gonna have to blow out the water systems in the not too distance future
05:29 AM jthornton: gotta get some heat in the chicken waterer
05:29 AM MarcelineVQ: ah does that bother them?
05:30 AM MarcelineVQ: well frozen would I'm sure, but I imagine the coop doens't get that cold inside
05:30 AM jthornton: just need to keep the water from freezing up
05:30 AM jthornton: actually you want plenty of ventilation in the coop
05:30 AM jthornton: and no heat
05:31 AM MarcelineVQ: ah most coops that I've seen have enough chickens that it wouldn't get freezing inside but I guess that's not a rule ehe
05:32 AM jthornton: chickens have built in insulation you need to keep the humidity down with ventilation and not have any drafts
05:34 AM RyanS: I wouldn't mind some built in insulation in winter
05:34 AM jdh: I have lots!
05:34 AM jthornton: if you heat the coop then they loose the down and will freeze when they go outside
05:35 AM MarcelineVQ: that's really interesting, not something a person might think of on their own
05:35 AM RyanS: may look a bit odd having feathers though
05:36 AM jdh: insulative adipose
05:36 AM jthornton: yea I was rigging the coop up for some heat till I found out that's bad for them
05:37 AM RyanS: there was a duck plucking machine on dirty jobs once, clever
05:37 AM MarcelineVQ: air quality seems like a huge deal for them, given that they trek dust everywhere since dust is their pest deterrent, have you considered hepa filtration for them or is that a draft issue?
05:39 AM MarcelineVQ: probably not an issue with under 30 birds really
05:39 AM jthornton: the main thing about air quality is it be low in moisture and low in ammonia
05:39 AM MarcelineVQ: that's a tough one, given that they shit everywhere :X
05:40 AM jthornton: na it's easy to keep the coop clean I remove the poop every morning
05:40 AM MarcelineVQ: no plans to invent poop cleaning robuts?
05:40 AM jthornton: I have poop boards under the roosts and use a 12" drywall knife to scoop it up
05:41 AM jthornton: I am the poop cleaning robot lol
05:41 AM MarcelineVQ: I used to wear a particulate mask when cleaning that stuff
05:41 AM MarcelineVQ: looked silly but what a lifesaver
05:42 AM jthornton: in a big chicken barn?
05:42 AM MarcelineVQ: big enough, probably 100 birds
05:42 AM MarcelineVQ: not a modern building
05:43 AM MarcelineVQ: iow not especially nice ventilation
05:44 AM jthornton: we have a lot of chicken ranchers here in Missouri with huge chicken houses
05:45 AM RyanS: MarcelineVQ: Shit-o-bot 3000 'Sucks shit in a good way'
05:45 AM jthornton: meat birds only live 6 weeks if you let them live longer they grow so big their legs break
05:46 AM MarcelineVQ: Muckscraper (tm) by Pooptronics Ltd.
05:46 AM jthornton: over here a Poopomatic by Pooptronics LLC
05:47 AM MarcelineVQ: With a service that halls away your manure if you have enough birds (and sells it back to you as hay fertilizer)
05:48 AM jthornton: it's fun to watch them
05:48 AM RyanS: yeah they convert it to fertiliser with the Shitenizer XL
05:49 AM MarcelineVQ: with our propriatary delivery system the Shitzel Schnitzel (r)
05:50 AM RyanS: then keep it in the Reshiterator for transport
05:51 AM jthornton: I'd be knee deep in eggs now if the damn dogs didn't kill my first flock
05:51 AM RyanS: if I was a farmer all I'd want is an air tractor
05:51 AM MarcelineVQ: try our new GonzoGuano weekly service
05:52 AM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: are they wild dogs or coyotes?
05:52 AM jthornton: no, damn neighbor's dogs
05:52 AM MarcelineVQ: jesus
05:52 AM jthornton: still waiting for the one that got away to come back for some lead poison
05:53 AM MarcelineVQ: that's the worst, never know what the impact of defending your property is gonna be when it's some human's animal
05:53 AM jthornton: and she complained to my buddy how much she had just spent on getting the dog fixed and shots etc
05:54 AM jthornton: well made me fix my field fence and erect a 5' chain link fence around the chicken yard lol
05:55 AM jthornton: between me and my neighbor we have trapped the racoons possums and coyotes out of the area
05:56 AM MarcelineVQ: ehe, people that think racoons are cute never lived near a racoon
05:56 AM RyanS: time to build a Doginator T1000 robot 'Hasta la Vista puppy'
05:57 AM jthornton: I used to only trap them on my deck cause once they come on your deck and crap on it they keep coming back
05:57 AM MarcelineVQ: you get a mean one and they'll take your cat out, not super common luckily
05:59 AM jthornton: I got a huge one on my game camera the other day it was so big it could not fit into the live trap I have
06:00 AM MarcelineVQ: your camera have good night-mode?
06:01 AM jthornton: I have one HikVision that has good night mode but the game camera is fair at night
06:01 AM RyanS: jthornton; re your Mesa cards, is the THCAD-10 the one I need for Hypertherm 45XP, or the THCAD-300?
06:01 AM jthornton: THCAD-10 for Hypertherm
06:02 AM jthornton: 45XP must be a new model :)
06:03 AM RyanS: yeah just new version of Powermax 45
06:03 AM RyanS: has serial port like 65/85 etc
06:04 AM jthornton: mine is a 1250 so 3 generations back
06:06 AM RyanS: 7i76e will that work with rvos too if the drives accept step/dir signal?
06:07 AM jthornton: dunno what a rvos is but if it takes step and direction input yes
06:08 AM RyanS: servos* oops
06:13 AM RyanS: I wonder how long until 2.8 becomes the stable release. how often does LCNC get updated?
06:13 AM jthornton: no set schedule for releases
06:13 AM MarcelineVQ: people are still making 2.7 commits, so who knows hehe
06:14 AM jthornton: 2.7 commits are only bug fixes
06:14 AM MarcelineVQ: If you like 2.8 features though, use that, people can't know if something's ready if no one's using it!
06:16 AM RyanS: i just need 2.8 for dual gantry motors
06:17 AM jthornton: yea 2.8 is great for gantrys with dual motors
06:19 AM * jthornton needs to get the RPi into the coop this weekend
06:22 AM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: is rpi so you can log things?
06:22 AM jthornton: mostly so it keeps correct time and I can work on it from here
06:32 AM Tom_L: 27°F
06:36 AM jthornton: RyanS: best to see what the voltage signal is on the 45XP from their manual
06:53 AM jthornton: dang I have 1.35GB of data usage a day for the rest of the month
07:34 AM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: is that low for you or high?
07:35 AM jthornton: I'm usually running short at the end of the month today I have over 5GB left
07:35 AM MarcelineVQ: oh geeze it is the end of the month isn't it, this one flew by
07:35 AM jthornton: yea
07:50 AM MarcelineVQ: oop, all my parts are in the mail. that's no good, now I actually have to make a machine for them or they'll create clutter :>
07:51 AM MarcelineVQ: should be a pretty fun experience
08:12 AM * JT-Shop builds a small fire in the garage... first for the season
11:16 AM gloops: decided to have a day off tidying and soundproofing, wanted to do something else, so started on diy surface grinder
11:18 AM JT-Shop: interesting project a diy surface grinder
11:26 AM gloops: yes, lathe + old morticing machine with bench grinder
11:26 AM gloops: i had serious doubts but i think it is going to work
11:29 AM gloops: ill post a vid when its working, this addition to the arsenal will ensure final victory in the field
11:32 AM malcom2073: Hmm, to spend $6 buying a delrin bushing, or to spend 2 hours in the shop making one myself.
11:33 AM gloops: depends when you need it
11:39 AM malcom2073: no rush heh, ima go out and make some
11:54 AM JT-Shop: the coop is winterized now
11:57 AM _methods: so what all does winterizing the coop entail?
11:59 AM JT-Shop: stapling up some clear plastic around the bottom on 3 sides to provide a daytime wind break
12:02 PM JT-Shop: they like to have bored meetings under the coop
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:06 PM _methods: hahah
12:11 PM djdelorie: malcom2073: I once spent six hours making bolts, to save half an hour driving to the store...
12:21 PM JT-Shop: 6,101 steps in this plc program and I think I'm done... now to stuff it all in a panel
12:24 PM JT-Shop: I think a nap is in order now
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: im off formula 1 mexico
01:45 PM * JT-Shop goes to string up some barbed wire just because it ain't going to get any warmer out today
01:46 PM miss0r: This arduino bug is kicking my ass *sigh*
01:46 PM gloops: difficult to tell if deep groove bearings have any axial play without being mounted on something
01:47 PM gloops: i think they do
01:47 PM pfred1: miss0r you can kick an Arduino's ass it's tiny
01:47 PM miss0r: pfred1: you'd think so, right? :)
01:48 PM pfred1: I should get back to my Arduino project
01:48 PM archivist: gloops, yes they have play it is in their spec
01:49 PM gloops: no good then
01:49 PM archivist: the play is reduced with interference fit
01:49 PM gloops: whats that?
01:50 PM gloops: i had the thought of bracing them apart with a spring
01:50 PM pfred1: or if you use a couple bearings in line
01:50 PM gloops: i am using 2, how will change it though?
01:50 PM archivist: load them axially to remove play
01:50 PM gloops: theyll both slip
01:51 PM archivist: belville springs or similar
01:51 PM gloops: archivit yes, could fit some spring device between the two, maybe even spring washer
01:51 PM sync: if you get a matched pair you can just tighten the inner races tight and they will be preloaded
01:52 PM gloops: not talking a lot but defintitely feel something, more of a tilt than a definite axial slackness
01:52 PM sync: or you grind a shim to your desired preload distance and just tighten
01:52 PM archivist: wave spring https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A2-Stainless-Steel-Crinkle-Wavy-wave-spring-Washers/231820236443
01:52 PM gloops: good idea sync
01:52 PM sync: look in any bearing suppliers handbook
01:52 PM gloops: yes this is how to do it
01:52 PM sync: they have sample spindle designs on hand
01:53 PM gloops: im not an engineer you understand, but i consider myself handy
01:53 PM miss0r: This is killing me! It insists of decelerate from maximum whenever I change direction :!
01:54 PM gloops: i will proceed with loaded pair design
01:54 PM sync: you should probably use a C3 bearing tho
01:55 PM archivist: bearing companies usually have good data books
01:56 PM sync: depending on the load you anticipate two angular contact bearings are probably fine
01:56 PM gloops: angular contact bearing sync?
01:56 PM sync: no
01:56 PM miss0r: I GOT IT !... I was missing an '&'...
01:56 PM sync: C3 is increased play
01:56 PM miss0r: That took 4 hours :'(
01:56 PM JT-Shop: miss0r: what arduino bug?
01:56 PM sync: so that the balls contact at more of an angle simulating angular contact
01:56 PM JT-Shop: what are you programming?
01:56 PM gloops: well i got 2 deep groove to play with for now
01:57 PM miss0r: JT-Shop: In some horrible code I wrote for a linear axis, that basically changes direction when limit switches are hit. then it gently decelerates, changes direction and acellerates again. (for the surface grinder)
01:57 PM miss0r: This is what happens when you haven't played with arduino for 3+ years
01:58 PM gloops: these are just 16007
01:58 PM archivist: miss0r, careful automation does not hide cutting too much per pass
01:58 PM miss0r: archivist: hehe indeed not.
01:59 PM miss0r: Now I just need to look at why I am dropping steps on a stepper with no load on it. this is mindboggling. When I run full RPM it sounds good. but when I drop the rpm down a bit I can hear it skipping steps
01:59 PM archivist: wheel filling up and the expansion of the work with heat
01:59 PM gloops: lower torque at low speeds?
02:00 PM archivist: resonance
02:00 PM miss0r: archivist: This stepper is still on the workbench, not mounted on anything
02:00 PM archivist: use microstepping to hide that
02:00 PM miss0r: gloops: that shouldn't be the case.
02:00 PM pfred1: motors have resonance by themselves
02:00 PM pfred1: usually worse than with a loado n them
02:00 PM gloops: or noise
02:01 PM JT-Shop: miss0r: cool
02:01 PM pfred1: arduino do seem sensitive to noise
02:01 PM miss0r: pfred1: Yeah. but I went through some lengths to eliminate the noise.
02:02 PM pfred1: for me optical isolation was the only thing that worked
02:02 PM miss0r: also, the step skipping seems consistent even when I load the motor with my hand, right up until it stops
02:02 PM pfred1: I've seen stepper motors run funny with too much current
02:03 PM pfred1: which is not intuititive
02:03 PM miss0r: I turned it upside down. I pull up the inputs with a resistor, and ground them with the switch, that way they are not prone to spikes triggering stuff
02:03 PM pfred1: have yo uchecked the current draw of the motor holding?
02:04 PM pfred1: that should not exceed the motor's rating
02:04 PM miss0r: I must admit, I have not. I just twisted the current limiting screw back and forth til it sounded good :)
02:04 PM pfred1: yeah actually put a meter on it
02:04 PM pfred1: aand check it holding too
02:05 PM pfred1: unless the drive has a hold current reduciton mode
02:05 PM miss0r: hehe. I turned the current right the f down. Now it doesn't skip as many steps.
02:06 PM miss0r: But i will leave it here for now (Still waiting for the motor that will actuly be used)
02:06 PM pfred1: yeah ovr current messes stepper up
02:06 PM pfred1: worse than I'd think it would
02:07 PM miss0r: its been too long since I messed with this sort of stuff. I'm getting rusty... Heh you should see the mess of a code I made
02:07 PM pfred1: I got to admit when I had that problem it kind of bit me unawares too
02:08 PM pfred1: but once i adjusted the current my machine ran a lot better
02:08 PM pfred1: I'm not going to talk about the loose phase wire now either
02:08 PM miss0r: I sure hope this will make my CNC mechanic happy. I think I spend 3 times the amount of time on this than I planned
02:09 PM * miss0r looks for loose wires :o
02:09 PM pfred1: that had me thinking in all kinds of directions
02:10 PM pfred1: when i finally stumbled across it i was like this couldn't be causing all these problems, could it?
02:11 PM pfred1: that was a real doh moment
02:11 PM miss0r: hehe. I started writing this code around noon: https://pastebin.com/b2iigmcV
02:12 PM miss0r: Now I think it is done... well, I still need to add a flashing led code to make it look like the box is doing something. THEN i'm done
02:12 PM pfred1: still take some time to really dial in the motor current
02:12 PM sync: I should probe the current of my steppers, I'm probably still saturating them
02:12 PM pfred1: it makes a huge performance difference
02:12 PM miss0r: Yeah. I will do that when the real stepper is installed and mounted in the setup
02:13 PM pfred1: too much and the motor will be jerky at low speed
02:13 PM miss0r: that was what I was seeing
02:13 PM pfred1: it just won't be smooth like it is tripping over itself to run
02:13 PM pfred1: at high R the inductance of the motor drops current
02:14 PM pfred1: so that's why it smooths out then
02:15 PM pfred1: one of those more is not merrier situations
02:16 PM pfred1: go home stepper motor you're drunk on the juice
02:16 PM miss0r: i would have never thought. I was thinking that the larger current I could get away with, the better control of the stepper
02:16 PM pfred1: yeah you'd think
02:16 PM miss0r: but yeah, saturation is a concern
02:16 PM pfred1: steppers are logically backwards
02:17 PM pfred1: which is why the big boys make the sane choice and run servos
02:18 PM miss0r: hehe yeah. I'm trying not to overdo this small project i'm doing as payment for the technician that fixed my cnc
02:18 PM pfred1: yeah within their limits stepper motors are fine
02:18 PM pfred1: but they still have quirks that have to be dealt with
02:19 PM pfred1: like the high current hurkey jerky thing they do
02:20 PM pfred1: the other dead giveaway for over current is the motor heating up a lot
02:20 PM pfred1: steppers get hot but over current they get really hot
02:23 PM miss0r: yeah. that usualy how it goes 'round here
02:23 PM pfred1: moar powah!
02:54 PM gloops: accelerate in, accelerate out
03:19 PM workroot: Odd
03:20 PM workroot: For some reason my work comp restarted last night
03:20 PM workroot: There goes my 100+ day uptime, heh
03:22 PM miss0r: 21:41:50 up 378 days, 13:17, 2 users, load average: 0.13, 0.23, 0.22
03:22 PM miss0r: :)
03:24 PM miss0r: This is my home webserver. It does have a somewhat beefy UPS system. It can run for ~48 hours in case of a power outage. and i've never had one last more than 5 hours at this location
03:32 PM pfred1: I lost power once for 4 days
03:32 PM pfred1: in the winter and I have electric heat electric everything really it sucked
04:03 PM hazzy: We are in the middle of a BIG city (Atlanta) but the power goes out all the time. Usually 2-4hr, but at some point every year it goes out for 2-7days. Everything is gas, and it does not get cold, so it is really no more than a big inconvenience
04:04 PM hazzy: I have a generator to run the mill :D
04:04 PM pfred1: I wonder if they're still cursing my Yankee ass to this day in Atlanta?
04:05 PM hazzy: yes we certainly are
04:05 PM hazzy: :D
04:05 PM pfred1: there's a big highway north of Atlanta and i was on it and I didn't want to go to Atlanta that day so when my exit came up I must have zipped across 7 panes of traffic to get on it
04:05 PM pfred1: lanes of traffic even
04:06 PM pfred1: I mean I really didn't want ot go to Atlanta in just that moment
04:07 PM pfred1: as far as i know no rednecks were hurt in that stunt
04:07 PM hazzy: Haha, there are 8 + 2 lanes now. it is crazy. and very confusing for people from out of state. Heck, it is confusing for me!
04:07 PM pfred1: yeah to this day I have no idea how i made it
04:08 PM pfred1: I mean it must have been a quarter of a mile diagonally across the highway
04:08 PM pfred1: who thought that was a good idea?
04:09 PM pfred1: I'm from by NYC and we don't hav anything that stupid up here
04:10 PM hazzy: We we are used to people doing that, even the locals. There are some places were you have to drive almost perpendicular to traffic to get to certain exits
04:10 PM pfred1: yeah it ranks as one ot the top 10 stupidest moves I've ever pulled on a public road
04:11 PM pfred1: but I'd do it again in a heartbeat
04:11 PM pfred1: because getting caught up in a major metro area is a nightmare
04:12 PM pfred1: I never been to Atlanta and I didn't want ot go then either
04:12 PM pfred1: I've seen it though
04:12 PM hazzy: The good think it that southerners are typically very forgiving to the antics of other drivers, not so in NY, at least from my limited experience lost at 5AM
04:12 PM pfred1: you al lthink you're Nascar stars
04:12 PM hazzy: hehe
04:13 PM pfred1: I remember tooling through the smokey mountains in my mini van and this one oke in his pickup truck was all bent out of shape
04:13 PM pfred1: becausei was doing like 95
04:13 PM pfred1: he was having trouble passing me at that speed
04:14 PM pfred1: my daddy really did race formula cars
04:14 PM pfred1: so I drive hard
04:15 PM pfred1: your roads are insane too
04:15 PM hazzy: Yeah, some people just seem to be compiled to pass, even if it makes no sense
04:16 PM pfred1: there's a highway going around Chatanooga and there's banked turns on it like Daytona
04:16 PM hazzy: I love the road!
04:16 PM pfred1: people driving like they're in the 500 too
04:17 PM pfred1: you won't find any of that up here
04:17 PM hazzy: I took the sprinter down that road a couple months ago, it was fun!
04:18 PM pfred1: I was on that highway and i was like there's the choo choo!
04:18 PM pfred1: I could hardly enjoy the moment though
04:19 PM pfred1: if you want to drive with real nuts take a trip down the Masspike
04:19 PM hazzy: Yeah, you can see it going right up the side of the mountain. Nice views in there, if you can slow down to enjoy them
04:19 PM pfred1: that's where it is on the side of the mountain off to the right
04:20 PM pfred1: the Chatanooga choo choo
04:20 PM hazzy: Masspike? Is that were they took about 500 pics of my tag?
04:20 PM pfred1: I don't know
04:21 PM pfred1: I just know when I'm doing 105 they're passing me like I'm changing a tire
04:21 PM hazzy: yikes
04:21 PM pfred1: yeah it is a but nuts
04:21 PM pfred1: bit even
04:22 PM pfred1: worst damned drivers them and folks from connecuicut
04:22 PM hazzy: I was on a turn pike somewere in Mass and about every mile I saw the flash of a tag camera. I guess they were trying to track speed
04:22 PM pfred1: the flash bulb must burn out on that camera
04:23 PM pfred1: I was going like hell and i saw this crazy woman pass me with a baby pasted to the side window of her car
04:23 PM pfred1: I looked at my friend and said did you see that?
04:23 PM pfred1: he just shook his head
04:24 PM hazzy: crazzy
04:24 PM hazzy: OK, back to work :)
04:43 PM gloops: collecting steel tommorrow, workspace not ready
04:48 PM gloops: however i will be like sir francis drake, and finish the game of bowls
04:59 PM Deejay: gn8
05:32 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LATHE-UNFINISHED-DRILLING-MACHINE-PROJECT-CASTINGS-L-K/352193009358?
05:32 PM gloops: wonder what the plan was for that
05:39 PM Tom_L: it didn't work out whatever it was
05:40 PM syyl: pillar tool
05:40 PM syyl: design by george h thomas
05:40 PM gloops: cant see how that works to be a drill
05:40 PM gloops: ahh
05:40 PM gloops: its only down the road from me
05:41 PM syyl: http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Universal_Pillar_Tool.html
05:42 PM gloops: hmm, i probably wouldnt use it for a drill, but might be good for something
05:42 PM gloops: theyll probably bid more than ÂŁ90 anyway
05:42 PM pfred1: gloops sounds like a good place for it to me
05:43 PM gloops: lol
05:43 PM pfred1: tap handles have center holesi n them so you just put a spud in your chuck
05:43 PM gloops: nah it would be useful just needs a control system
05:44 PM pfred1: I've tapped holes cockeyes and it does suck
05:48 PM gloops: theyre selling that kit for ÂŁ90 when you can buy a new chinese 5 speed drill for 60
05:50 PM gloops: that is a solid shaft though, and cast iron fittings, that wouldnt bent
05:57 PM Ozo: Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has any experience with mesa 8i20 drives?
06:00 PM gloops: i cant help ozo but there are people who know, sure theyll be around soon
06:02 PM Tom_L: Ozo, you're in the right place. just wait around
06:02 PM Ozo: thanks, will do!
06:30 PM Tom_L: andypugh might :)
06:32 PM andypugh: I am sulking. I just broke the drill chuck of my mill. The tool siezed (had to mill it out) and my mill was in the 200rpm gear so had lots of torque. Enough to split the hood on the keyless chuck.
06:33 PM Tom_L: oh ouch
06:33 PM malcom2073: Oh man that sucks
06:35 PM sync: nice
06:40 PM andypugh: The only good news is that it was one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281009166171 and ow I have an excuse to get one that is a little shorter.
06:43 PM pfred1: that's looking on the bright side
06:43 PM andypugh: Tom_L: When I came in, what were you referring me to
06:43 PM andypugh: ?
06:44 PM pfred1: probably this 18:26 < Ozo> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has any experience with mesa 8i20 drives?
06:44 PM andypugh: Ah, yes, I use them in both my mill and my lathe.
06:44 PM pfred1: I'd call that some experience
06:45 PM Tom_L: andypugh, Ozo was asking about a 8I20
06:45 PM Tom_L: i just figured you had one of every mesa card :)
06:46 PM andypugh: I have never had a 7i77
06:46 PM Ozo: I think I have the answer I was looking for but wont hurt to run it past you.
06:46 PM pfred1: such a lucky sounding card too
06:47 PM pfred1: andypugh get a 7i77 and your mill chuck luck is bound to change
06:47 PM andypugh: Yes. Of course.
06:47 PM andypugh: I have the whole debacle on film too.
06:47 PM pfred1: that's a plus
06:48 PM andypugh: (Well, in flash, rather than on film)
06:48 PM pfred1: speaking of flash
06:48 PM pfred1: you run LinuxCNC off flash cards don't you?
06:49 PM andypugh: Yes, SATA DOM modules
06:50 PM pfred1: so not like mmc or anything like that?
06:50 PM pfred1: someone on G+ was asking about LinuxCNC on flash
06:51 PM pfred1: like USB though and I don't think that is possible to run a real time session is it?
06:51 PM pfred1: off a USB flash drive that is
06:52 PM sync: why not, there is nothing that depends on disk io once it is loaded
06:52 PM pfred1: yeah that's what I'd think but that's not how it ends up working out
06:52 PM andypugh: Ozo: So, what was the question?
06:53 PM andypugh: This is a surprise, eBay can’t compete with an actual shop for a new chuck. https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/bt30-drill-chucks/BT30-APU13-12K.html
06:53 PM pfred1: we all love surprises like that
06:54 PM pfred1: I got to log this build to see where it's blowing up the scroll is too long for my terminal
06:54 PM sync: andypugh: I prefer the ones with the allen screw
06:55 PM andypugh: sync: But those are really expensive (though might have avoided this problem)
06:56 PM sync: yeah, for some reason they are quite expensive
06:56 PM pfred1: because they can only sell you one
06:57 PM Ozo: I have an old hurco that has lay down, I'm looking at potential options for a retrofit. Already have done a few builds with linux/mesa/dc servos but have no experience with AC systems. 1 option im looking at is keeping the original yaskawa ac servos and coupling with 8i20s. If I understand correctly the 8i20 takes the dc input and creates a pwm single to drive the motor. The Yaskawa servos are 200v , I believe I would need a 200v dc in
06:59 PM sync: which generation of yaskawa servos?
06:59 PM Roguish: Ozo: do you have the Yaskawa drives?
07:00 PM Ozo: old school early 90's, usafed-09
07:00 PM sync: thinking about getting one of those andypugh https://www.kemmler-shop.de/din-2080/cnc-bohrfutter/sk-30/682/cnc-bohrfutter-sk-30-1/13-90din-2080?c=572
07:02 PM andypugh: Ozo: What sort of encoders are on the motors?
07:02 PM andypugh: Ozo: That’s often the problem with Yaskawa.
07:03 PM Ozo: 2 of the drives are shot, just bought the machine, but it didn't like the move. I have priced getting them repaired but to be honest for whats it costing i rather upgrade to something that not 30years old and I can replace easily if needed.
07:04 PM Ozo: I believe the are 6000ppr resolvers only compatible with the drives that are currently in it. Even slightly more modern yaskawa drives arent compatible
07:04 PM sync: well, the biggest issue is what kind of encoder protocol they talk
07:04 PM sync: probably wiresaving
07:05 PM sync: ah no
07:05 PM sync: just abz uvw
07:05 PM sync: easy then
07:05 PM andypugh: If they have UVW then yes, trivially easy, almost.
07:06 PM andypugh: Good fit for STMBL? (though those might not be “replace easily if needed’ :-)
07:07 PM sync: they would probably work ok
07:08 PM Ozo: The hurco has encoders on the ballscrews also, I had thought it may be possible to drive the motors with a "dumb" driver and close the loop using in linux using the ballscrew encoders? That is if the motor resolver is a pain to use
07:08 PM sync: I wonder why they have done that
07:09 PM pfred1: vender lock in
07:09 PM Ozo: I believe there is a "closed loop" between the motor and driver and the ball screw encoder feeds back into the controller
07:10 PM andypugh: You could keep that if you wanted.
07:10 PM Ozo: Im not too sure how they work together or against each other
07:11 PM sync: hurcos were cheap machines back then and they rolled their own control
07:11 PM sync: I wonder if scales were too expensive for them
07:12 PM sync: so they just put an encoder on the end of the screw
07:12 PM evilroot: Means replacing the motor is cheaper and easier I would think
07:13 PM * evilroot 's bots use Minertia Motor servos
07:13 PM sync: well, the servo comes with its own encoder that the drive uses
07:14 PM Ozo: I love their control, its great for jobbing work, even the old ultimax! The machine is just too long in the tooth or I would seriously consider keeping it.
07:14 PM andypugh: You could use the motor encoder purely for commutation, and then use the other for the position loop.
07:15 PM Ozo: I am correct in thinking I need a 200v dc input to drive 200v AC servos with the 8i20?
07:16 PM andypugh: What’s your local mains voltage?
07:16 PM Ozo: Also looked at DMM servos/drives. Seem to get good reviews but the price seems to good to be true?
07:16 PM andypugh: I have always run my 8i20s on simple rectified mains.
07:16 PM Ozo: UK so 240
07:17 PM Ozo: half bridge
07:17 PM sync: I don't like the hurco control, all the people that work with them say it is great but it just does not cut it when doing a lot of 3d surfacing
07:17 PM Ozo: ?
07:17 PM sync: I hate to dripfeed machines
07:17 PM andypugh: 8i20 is happy on rectified UK mains (full bridge) and the motors are unlikely to care what voltage you run them on.
07:18 PM andypugh: (I am in the UK too)
07:18 PM sync: hm, interesting, the drive has analog torque feedback
07:18 PM sync: and anlog speed reference
07:18 PM sync: I fiddled around with some festo servodrives last weekend that would do absolute position mode with analog setpoint :D
07:19 PM sync: I wondered who designed that
07:20 PM evilroot: The ones on my bot have a signal for a full revolution
07:20 PM evilroot: And something relating to tach
07:20 PM evilroot: Don't use those though
07:21 PM andypugh: Ozo: This is my drive box that runs my lathe. 2x8i20, a rectifier and a big capacitor. (also a relay that crowbars the cap when the power goes off, and a couple of SSRs for a soft-start too. The sequencing of the soft-start is done in HAL, using the 8i20 bus-voltage feedback.
07:21 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/R0HrbhlbBMaBD8rm2
07:22 PM Ozo: Im a mould maker by day just have my own shop part time. We run a new vmx64i in work, other than the DMGs I have ran it the best machine Ive used by quite a bit. Our haas and doosan arent even close. All deep cavity 3d work, NC programs.
07:24 PM Ozo: andypugh: thanks! what size of cap is that?
07:24 PM sync: idk, I just did not like the two screen setup
07:25 PM andypugh: Ozo: I will point out that I think that box is too small. But it’s been fine so far.
07:26 PM andypugh: The cap is an EVOX RIFA 3300uF 600V one.
07:26 PM sync: http://sync-hv.de/~tmp/iram_blown.jpg andypugh
07:27 PM sync: rene-dev blew a IPM with a bit aggressive decel ramp
07:27 PM Ozo: thanks andy, much appreciated!
07:29 PM sync: and it turns out that to247 resistors cannot be used for braking duty
07:30 PM Ozo: The second screen is just a graphics screen. Not really necessary but its nice to be able confirm the toolpaths before you start.
07:30 PM Ozo: youtube
08:10 PM MarcelineVQ: andypugh: what kind of plugs are on the front there?
08:16 PM sync: speakon
08:19 PM MarcelineVQ: neato
08:21 PM andypugh: I like Speakons. (And PowerCON) because they have very nice fulti-finger contacts, and are rated at 20A / 250V (even if they are intended for speakers)
08:21 PM andypugh: They have a good solid feel, but are also pretty inexpensive.
08:22 PM sync: yeah, they are cheap
08:22 PM sync: not sure how good the emi performance is tho
08:22 PM andypugh: Probably fairly poor, they are inte4nded for audio-frequency stuff.
08:23 PM sync: well, they are not screened, so yes
08:23 PM MarcelineVQ: looks like one of their series has a slightly different end as well as being higher rated, which is good so you can use that one for your main power and cut down on more dangerous plugging mistakes
08:24 PM MarcelineVQ: though it might not actually, these aren't great pics
08:24 PM andypugh: They have PowerCON (3 pole) for power feed
08:25 PM sync: I am not really sure if I even want connectors for my motors
08:25 PM sync: been reading some books on emi design and it seems like a bad idea with motor control stuff
08:26 PM andypugh: I guess that the metal-hosing plugs would shield pretty well. http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/speakon/stx-series/nlt4fx
08:26 PM MarcelineVQ: plug seem like a good idea, though not until making enclosures, just never know when you need to move things
08:27 PM andypugh: Well, yes, but it’s rare to find a servo motor that you can solder directly to. They tend to use M23 or similar.
08:27 PM sync: yeah and m23 has lots of features to acceptably terminate the screen
08:28 PM sync: with the push in sleeve and the ring
08:30 PM andypugh: I used Lemo connectors for the feedback on the lathe servos.
08:31 PM andypugh: Originally the servo had some connectors that I just couldn’t find. https://photos.app.goo.gl/mFDAe6rBKtMBbzCF2
08:31 PM andypugh: Ball-retained snap-on connectors.
08:32 PM andypugh: (and one was damaged)
08:34 PM sync: eh, that looks like some 38999 connector with a breakaway backshell
08:37 PM andypugh: Not screw or bayonet
08:38 PM sync: http://www.amphenolmao.com/Content/images/products/Breakaway_Lanyard.jpg
08:38 PM sync: like those
08:38 PM sync: you can just pull and they pop off
08:39 PM andypugh: Yes, except that the balls in the ones I had were in the plug, as I recall.
08:39 PM sync: ehh
08:39 PM sync: okay
08:40 PM andypugh: I did look quite hard.
08:40 PM andypugh: And I suspect that even if I had found them they would have been very expensive.
08:41 PM sync: they always are expensive, yeah
08:42 PM andypugh: I found some nice Lemo’s at £15 for the mated pair (with the right crimp contacts unmounted). https://photos.app.goo.gl/c2jpI5UQED4qQPio1
08:43 PM andypugh: I don’t think that’s in any way inferior. (I admit that the Speakon for the power connection isn’t to the original standard, but it works)
08:48 PM sync: yeah
08:49 PM andypugh: Going to snooze. But leaving this open.
10:32 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Dear all,
10:33 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I am an mechatronics engineer from Vietnam.
10:34 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I am planning to build a CNC controller for my community, especially in my university.
10:36 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: In my country, we all know the important of the CNC control system in both academic and industrial area. However, no one can build a stable CNC controller, then popularize it to others.
10:38 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: My purpose is build a CNC controller, then I will establish a community in my country and share it to others. Especially is the students.
10:39 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I've done a lots of searchs for this topics. However, it too much, I do not know where is the start point for me.
10:40 PM Tom_L: google mesa for control boards
10:41 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: And no doubt, Linux CNC is a big guy in Open Source CNC Controller. Therefore, I come here to find a help from you guy.
10:41 PM Tom_L: http://mesanet.com/
10:41 PM Tom_L: great control boards
10:41 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: With tutorial, guidline?
10:41 PM Tom_L: that's what we're here for
10:42 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Ok Tom, thank you!
10:42 PM Tom_L: stepper or servo?
10:42 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Servo
10:43 PM Tom_L: there are boards for that
10:43 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: What about software?
10:43 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Also there?
10:43 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc
10:43 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/
10:43 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Oh...got it.
10:44 PM Tom_L: runs on a pc
10:44 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: What will happen if I want to build my own software?
10:44 PM Tom_L: you'll be at it a very long time
10:45 PM Tom_L: grbl is an open source start for that
10:45 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: How long?
10:45 PM sync: that depends on your understanding of kinematics and path planning
10:45 PM sync: and how well you can code
10:45 PM Tom_L: i've been following linuxcnc for many years as it's progressed to what it is
10:46 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: So you mean I should follow GRBL first?
10:46 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Then I can step up to Linux?
10:47 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I really want to have a plan with step by step to master the CNC controller...
10:47 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I am doing the CNC controller project for my university.
10:48 PM Tom_L: i would skip grbl personally
10:48 PM sync: work out the math behind path planning for trivial kinematics first and then work your way up from there
10:52 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Actually, I cay say that now I start to study CNC controller from zero...
10:52 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: It so messy man...
10:53 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Hardware, software, algorithm,..bla..bla..
10:54 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Can you give me a guideline? First,..Second,.....
10:55 PM sync: it's not really messy, it's just that a cnc control is a whole ecosystem of things that have to work together
10:55 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Just give me an overall point in each step, then I'll try to dig it
10:56 PM sync: I guess nobody is going to walk you through developing your own cnc control
10:56 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Oh...man..
10:57 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Is there any document or guideline,...
10:57 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Then I can read and do it by myself?
10:57 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: No place for tutorial, guidline,...?
10:59 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Any service?
10:59 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I can pay for that..
10:59 PM pfred1: the world is already awash in CNC controllers
11:00 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I know...but in my country..
11:00 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: No CNC controller with made in Vietnam
11:00 PM pfred1: they'll let you run LinuxNC there too
11:01 PM pfred1: or grbl if that's your thing
11:01 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Is grbl simpler than LinuxCNC/
11:01 PM pfred1: I believe it is
11:02 PM pfred1: they've been at it far less time
11:03 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: What about smoothieware, Buildbotics?
11:03 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Shapeoko?
11:04 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Where r they come from?
11:04 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: They are also open source? They said that.
11:05 PM pfred1: whoever wrote this history page sure was averse to the idea of dates
11:06 PM pfred1: ah ha apparently EMC2 started in 2003
11:06 PM XXCoder: history ius bad allright?
11:06 PM XXCoder: ;)
11:06 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: :))
11:06 PM pfred1: I thought it was even older than that
11:07 PM Tom_L: it started as a government project
11:07 PM pfred1: that was EMC
11:07 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Yes,
11:07 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: EMC is older
11:07 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: 199x
11:07 PM pfred1: LInux didn't get involved til 2
11:08 PM pfred1: or wait was Linux EMC too?
11:08 PM pfred1: in any event LinuxCNC in some incarnation has been around for a long time now
11:09 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: xD
11:09 PM XXCoder: name was changed by lawsuit. wheee
11:09 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Oh..
11:09 PM pfred1: yeah that still irks me
11:09 PM pfred1: EMC was a lot easier to type
11:09 PM XXCoder: should have named "wewasforcedtochangefromemc"
11:10 PM XXCoder: LCNC is fine
11:10 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: :)))
11:11 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Hey, you guys, is there any training service about LinuxCNC?
11:11 PM pfred1: there's a lot of documents
11:11 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Yes, I see..
11:12 PM pfred1: maybe you can found the first school?
11:12 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: But too much...
11:12 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I do not know whether my question is stupid or not?
11:12 PM pfred1: then your country will have something no other has
11:13 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: U mean??
11:13 PM pfred1: the University of LinuxCNC
11:13 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Yes, :))
11:13 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Why not?
11:13 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: That what I want..
11:14 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I mean just create a community
11:14 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: for LinuxCNC
11:14 PM pfred1: this is it
11:14 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: in Uni
11:15 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: http://www.hcmut.edu.vn/en/
11:15 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: My University...
11:15 PM pfred1: I see your school has balls
11:15 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Mechatronics student do not know how a CNC controller works..
11:16 PM pfred1: I got one and i have to admit even I don't know how it works
11:16 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: do not know how to design a CNC controller
11:16 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: :))
11:17 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: It's unacceptable, man
11:17 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: :)
11:17 PM pfred1: nah you just open a file and hit run
11:17 PM pfred1: I don't need ot know how it works
11:17 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Actually, it depends on your demand..
11:18 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: I need to know, then share it to other students...
11:18 PM XXCoder: lol https://youtu.be/h93Yn1ZoRjw
11:18 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: So what can I do if I just know how to operate it..
11:19 PM XXCoder: kikller bump on road
11:19 PM pfred1: KhanhDangDuy2508 you can cut stuff
11:20 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: :((
11:21 PM pfred1: KhanhDangDuy2508 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
11:21 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Yes, I got it.
11:21 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Thanks.
11:22 PM XXCoder: only one driver surivied so far lol
11:22 PM XXCoder: two now though second one cheate
11:24 PM pfred1: XXCoder the physics are off when a cement truck flips the barrel comes out
11:24 PM XXCoder: yeah its more silly thing than accurate physics
11:24 PM pfred1: the barrel always comes out
11:25 PM hazzy: KhanhDangDuy2508: Your school looks very similar to mine! Not many schools these days offer engineering programs with a good mix of theory and application. It is good to see that there are some still out there.
11:27 PM pfred1: XXCoder i bet my Yoda would make it
11:27 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: hazzy, my school does not offer
11:27 PM XXCoder: pf lol
11:27 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: That's why I come here
11:28 PM XXCoder: lol that yellow truck al;most made it
11:28 PM pfred1: XXCoder I was soing donuts in it in a snow filled parking lot once and i drove over an island I didn't see
11:28 PM XXCoder: ran just fine for most of it
11:28 PM pfred1: I swear the curb was liek a foot tall
11:28 PM pfred1: went over it liek nothing
11:29 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Bye, u guys, I gotta have lunch..
11:29 PM KhanhDangDuy2508: Thank you!!
11:30 PM XXCoder: crazy
11:30 PM * evilroot yawns