#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 27 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:22 AM IchGucksLive: morning from raining germany
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: h_maximilian: guten morgen
01:25 AM h_maximilian: Guten Morgen
01:25 AM h_maximilian: Alles klar ?
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: regen
01:25 AM h_maximilian: dann ist eine gute Zeit zum arbeiten
01:25 AM h_maximilian: Ich habe gerade meine Kinder in den Kindergarten geschafft
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: ja heute will ich 2 fräsen fertiggsteleln
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: und ene mauer verputzen
01:25 AM h_maximilian: was für welche ?
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: nein ist doch die variante V5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYFYUA9ij6Q
01:29 AM h_maximilian: kk, bei mir es ist eher so, dass ich alle paar Jahre wieder eine Maschine für mich selbst umrüste
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: bei den preisen momentan rentiert sich das Closed loop umrüsten
01:30 AM h_maximilian: ist einfach viel viel günstiger eine alte Maschine zu nehmen, die Elektronik mit Motoren rauszunehmen und selbst umzubauen
01:30 AM IchGucksLive: geb ich dir recht die mahos 500-700 für 1000euronen
01:32 AM h_maximilian: Ja, und wenn etwas nicht mehr in Ordnung ist, dann kann ich es selbst reparieren
01:33 AM h_maximilian: das geht zwar alles nur bei einem kleinen Mittelständler, aber es spart mir viel Geld und gibt mir viel Flexibilität
01:33 AM h_maximilian: kostet allerdings auch immer ein paar Wochen Zeit, bis dann so eine umgerüstete Maschine komplett läuft
01:35 AM h_maximilian: so, jetzt muss ich leider an die "richtige" Arbeit, freudiges Schaffen und ein schönes WE
01:55 AM IchGucksLive: later ;-)
02:28 AM Deejay: moin
02:37 AM CaptHindsight: Ich kam, ich sah, ich eroberte
02:43 AM gloops: homing axis with 2 motors
02:44 AM gloops: this will need 2 switches, one for each motor
02:46 AM gloops: they cannot home simultaneously, if one has lost steps and the other homes, one will always be behind
02:48 AM archivist: they cannot home at the same time if a single port and switches in series
02:48 AM gloops: i dont think i can do this in sim
02:49 AM archivist: therefore each switch must be separate port pins
02:49 AM archivist: I think sim suffers where reality is needed
02:49 AM gloops: i could wire a motor up to my working 1 motor machine and get it working like that
02:49 AM gloops: but waiting for a driver
02:51 AM gloops: cant do that anyway, as loose motor wont trip switch
02:53 AM archivist: so far been too lazy to add homing switches to my stuff
02:53 AM gloops: its necessary for 2 motor
02:53 AM archivist: I know
02:55 AM gloops: well its something that needs getting in the bag, cant be difficult ill just have to wait till machine is ready i think
02:58 AM gloops: i could use a loose motor and get past the error message stage, like see if it is trying to home, maybe trip switch for it
03:01 AM archivist: I think the sim needs fixing so it has simulated switches too
03:02 AM gloops: actually ive not looked to see if sim has switches, just assumed it wouldnt have
03:03 AM archivist: I think others have come up against that too
03:03 AM gloops: would be useful to test configs
03:04 AM gloops: im not sure how you would home it manually
03:04 AM gloops: will read some more
03:25 AM archivist: nobody else bid! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THK-LM12-LINEAT-BUSH-12-JOB-LOT-NEW/292294975685
03:28 AM gloops: haha i wondered if it was you
03:28 AM gloops: i was going to bid!
03:30 AM gloops: 24..less than £1 eachwith post
03:30 AM archivist: but you didnt!
03:30 AM archivist: I only put 17 on them
03:30 AM gloops: well it is a bargain, but im trying to reign in the bidding so i didnt bother
03:31 AM gloops: theyre about 4 quid each i think from china?
03:31 AM gloops: well, low price, more usually
03:31 AM archivist: dunno not looked
03:32 AM archivist: I used a couple like that on my crude cutter grinder
03:32 AM gloops: all the bearings there for a laser or 3d printer
03:33 AM gloops: and theyre japanese
03:33 AM archivist: effin crude http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_10_20_Tool_grinder/IMG_1382.JPG
03:33 AM gloops: my next machine is a plastic injection moulder, then who knows
03:36 AM gloops: that looks interesting
03:36 AM archivist: I did tidy it up a bit later
03:36 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_11_01_Tool_grinder/IMG_1387.JPG
03:36 AM gloops: i remember a tool and cutter grinder years ago, it was the one one machine that befuddled the 'tool room' machinist
03:37 AM archivist: been looking at the Quorn design http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=grinder+pd
03:37 AM gloops: he did eventually work out how to sharpen lawnmower cyclinders
03:39 AM gloops: an old lathe would be a good start
03:40 AM gloops: the one i remember had 2 wheels, one either side, they had a lot of cup shaped wheels for it, used them mainly, the bed at the front traversed - basically a small lathe bed
03:40 AM archivist: needs better slides than the average lathe
03:41 AM gloops: cross feed, angles, most of what you need is on a lathe
03:41 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010214.JPG the one at the old job
03:43 AM archivist: upper background being a lathe that came home
03:43 AM gloops: https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrIRlsc6vJZ63MAkbJ3Bwx.?
03:43 AM gloops: takes some time setting up though
03:44 AM archivist: was that link complete?
03:46 AM gloops: no
03:46 AM gloops: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f19/32167d1299249108-devere-tool-cutter-grinder-p3041710.jpg
03:46 AM gloops: cant see the exact type im thinking of
03:47 AM archivist: grinders come in some oddball forms
03:50 AM gloops: lot better if you can adapt some cast base from another machine - if you cant get the machine you want
03:51 AM gloops: overhead mill for a lathe is something ive pondered, but how to get the mill column sturdy enough
03:52 AM archivist: unless your spindle bearing and lock are good dont bother
03:54 AM gloops: yes, a lot of combo machines yeild a lesser version of both machines
03:55 AM archivist: although look at Citizen sliding head lathes with live tooling, it can be done
04:08 AM gloops: well bbl
04:26 AM rebecca_: https://imgur.com/a/131gd
04:32 AM archivist: hmm I wonder if imgur and ebay are using the same broken JS, only seeing 10 images
04:33 AM rebecca_: weird. you're missing about 7
04:33 AM archivist: last are blank here
04:34 AM rebecca_: try again later?
04:34 AM rebecca_: heh
04:34 AM archivist: many sites are using js to fetch instead of plain html, its broken not time of looking
04:35 AM rebecca_: okay
04:35 AM rebecca_: i hope they fix it
04:35 AM archivist: it got worse on ebay a couple of days ago from some results to all results for me
04:37 AM rebecca_: sounds annoying. i don't seem affected here
04:39 AM archivist: depends what browser you have
05:10 AM XXCoder: booyah
05:15 AM XXCoder: dehumidifier is working opretty well
05:15 AM XXCoder: cup of water in it so far
05:17 AM archivist: iirc mine manages more than that a day
05:18 AM XXCoder: isnt yours much bigger than mine?
05:22 AM syyl: no man ever said that.
05:23 AM XXCoder: mine isnt large, though it does get annoying having to stuff it cleanly so I don't look like im trying to smuggle snake everywhere
05:24 AM syyl: this is getting weird ;)
05:24 AM XXCoder: lol
05:24 AM syyl: speaking of dehumidifiers - have one in my shop for years
05:24 AM syyl: best investment ever
05:25 AM XXCoder: definitely want to get good one for shop once shop exists.
05:26 AM XXCoder: http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/blogphotos/11/153-thanksgiving-cartoon.jpg
05:29 AM archivist: mine is rated at 280 watts
05:30 AM XXCoder: does your cup of beer turn into strong beer while walking near it? ;)
05:33 AM archivist: that depends if it dries the alcohol faster then the water
05:33 AM XXCoder: lol ok
05:35 AM XXCoder: I'd be impressed if my bottle of water slowly drained while I was walking around dehumifier with lid open
05:35 AM XXCoder: I doubt its possible even at sub-1% humid room
05:35 AM jthornton: morning
05:35 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:56 AM gloops: right, need a load of carpet underlay
05:58 AM archivist: not in the workshop you dont!
05:59 AM gloops: for the walls
05:59 AM XXCoder: soundproofing?
05:59 AM gloops: yes
05:59 AM archivist: to reduce the nagging from outside
06:00 AM gloops: i want to create a totally isolated cnc bubble
06:00 AM XXCoder: make sure it has enough mass so it dont float off and pop ;)
06:00 AM archivist: the thing I have against insulation sound or thermal is it reduces the hanging stuff on walls strength
06:00 AM XXCoder: I remember this wall design trick to make it even more soundproof
06:01 AM gloops: any tips welcome XXCoder
06:01 AM XXCoder: offset half of wall wood to each other
06:01 AM XXCoder: so sound has no direct parth though wall though the wood
06:01 AM gloops: archivist ive got enough nearly new strong shed panels to line the entire garage
06:01 AM gloops: cant picture what you mean XXCoder
06:02 AM XXCoder: lemme try find a pic. if none ill just draw quick
06:02 AM XXCoder: http://www.gypsum.org/Section%207%20Table%20Version_files/image031.jpg
06:02 AM gloops: if i line the garage with wooden panels, spars facing into the garage, i can fix to the spars
06:02 AM XXCoder: got lucky
06:02 AM XXCoder: notice how wood does not go all way to other side
06:03 AM gloops: ahh yeah that is a good way of stopping the sound going through the spars
06:03 AM XXCoder: you use half width wood, twice as often but end result is same as regular widtj
06:03 AM gloops: thats a good idea
06:04 AM XXCoder: dunno how easy it is to do with already existing
06:04 AM XXCoder: and its caslled spars eh
06:04 AM gloops: the noise isnt a problem really, but i want to get it down as low as i can without spending a lot, the less they know the better
06:05 AM XXCoder: well if youre willing to lose small amount of space
06:05 AM XXCoder: you could extend wall inwards a inch or so
06:05 AM XXCoder: use that scheme using existing spuds and new ones as other half
06:06 AM archivist: be aware some is transmitted through the floor
06:06 AM gloops: yes would work, could just put a stud wall in and leave the majority of spars not touching the wall
06:06 AM gloops: does have to be fixed at some points
06:07 AM gloops: yeah, youre never going to stop it all archivist, you need to build for it from the start really
06:07 AM archivist: rubber feet
06:07 AM XXCoder: even better?
06:08 AM XXCoder: rubber that doesnt bounce
06:08 AM XXCoder: that stipos vibration transfer to floor dead
06:08 AM gloops: dare i google rubber feet
06:08 AM gloops: but thats another good tip yes
06:08 AM archivist: rubber mountings too
06:09 AM XXCoder: someone used pucks to use as feet
06:09 AM XXCoder: fairly cheap, even real ones (plastic ones would be useless for you)
06:09 AM archivist: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4Pcs-Anti-Vibration-Rubber-Mounts-M6-20x15mm-Male-Female-Car-Bobbins-Boat-Damper/272902305344
06:10 AM gloops: i wonder..when installing the wood panels, a circle of rubber like a washer/pad behind every fixing
06:10 AM XXCoder: 12 for 17 bucks https://www.amazon.com/Faswin-Classic-Ice-Hockey-Puck/dp/B01FQ6H3V6/
06:10 AM gloops: will get something like that
06:11 AM gloops: lol, will be the ultimate padded cell
06:11 AM XXCoder: interesting variant http://www.gypsum.org/Section%207%20Table%20Version_files/image008.jpg
06:11 AM XXCoder: notice it uses very small amount of extra space from orginial spuds
06:11 AM XXCoder: spars
06:12 AM gloops: i think the new metal stud walls are designed to have a similar effect
06:12 AM gloops: the clip together stuff
06:13 AM gloops: the sound hits the board, then travels to the fixings or spars
06:13 AM XXCoder: interestijg
06:13 AM gloops: the less spars or fixings the outside can reach, the less sound goes through, as your pic allows for
06:13 AM XXCoder: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/practical-soundproofing
06:14 AM gloops: i read that carpet underlay is better than like loft insulation/rockwool
06:15 AM archivist: more dense
06:16 AM archivist: more attenuation due to the rubber
06:16 AM XXCoder: gloops: look at drum riser in that link
06:16 AM XXCoder: also Z ceiling supports to isolute sounds
06:17 AM gloops: could do something similar for one machine
06:17 AM XXCoder: soundproofing gasket plasic https://www.tmsoundproofing.com/products/NewConstruction/GasketTape.jpg
06:17 AM gloops: i thought of like an enclosure but thats going to limit access
06:19 AM gloops: i made a little box for a bench router with some 50mm foam board, just for under the table - made a massive difference, you could hardly hear it
06:19 AM XXCoder: cool
06:20 AM gloops: i wonder how much difference these little things make - like the gasket tape
06:20 AM gloops: bet its surprising
06:21 AM XXCoder: probably
06:21 AM XXCoder: im sure you cant screw though those and maintan soundproofness
06:24 AM gloops: well, will continue emptying the place
06:28 AM XXCoder: shit gold lol https://nypost.com/2017/10/11/1-8-million-in-gold-discovered-in-swiss-sewage-sludge/
06:39 AM Tom_L: 36F
06:39 AM jthornton: CF passes through here tonight
06:39 AM jthornton: you get any rain
06:39 AM Tom_L: nothing yet
06:39 AM XXCoder: small amount of fog
06:39 AM XXCoder: my work to home route gets really foggy in oct - nov lol
06:40 AM Tom_L: just the usual wind
07:23 AM jthornton: yea got the RPi displaying status on the OLED
08:04 AM gregcnc: Driving in Chicago https://youtu.be/3vElCOug8Fw?t=1m59s
08:21 AM corecode: hi!
08:32 AM corecode: i'm trying to figure out whether i can create hardware drivers to run realtime tasks and run linuxcnc itself on a non-realtime kernel
08:35 AM archivist: you need some sort of realtime with linuxcnc
08:36 AM corecode: why?
08:36 AM corecode: i mean, i know that some part needs to do realtime
08:37 AM archivist: most can run in userspace but you need something that is timed correctly
08:38 AM archivist: an fpga relaxes needs somewhat
08:38 AM corecode: why not completely
08:38 AM archivist: but motion is still calculated depending on what the hardware is doing
08:39 AM corecode: oh what
08:39 AM corecode: why?
08:40 AM corecode: and how hard is that realtime requirement
08:40 AM archivist: servo and other feedback etc
08:41 AM archivist: if you put an extra load on an axis others need to respond to keep in sync
08:42 AM corecode: say you used some of these clearpath servos that do all their position control
08:42 AM corecode: ah i see
08:43 AM corecode: but ideally wouldn't the hardware take care of that?
08:43 AM archivist: you are not understanding the design of linuxcnc
08:43 AM corecode: exactly
08:43 AM corecode: that's why i am asking
08:43 AM corecode: can you pass a motion plan to the hardware, and have the hardware do it?
08:44 AM archivist: a real machine has feedback and the axes are kept in relation to each other, those step dir things are open loop!
08:44 AM archivist: as far as the machine knows
08:44 AM corecode: yes, but could this feedback be handled in hardware, if the hardware can do it
08:45 AM archivist: it is the closed loop error correcting v open loop
08:47 AM corecode: yes, my question is: can i have hardware that does the closed loop error correcting
08:47 AM archivist: not with linuxcnc because that is in motion
08:47 AM corecode: okay
08:48 AM corecode: so how does linuxcnc deal with open loop steppers?
08:49 AM archivist: there is a stepper component that interfaces between motion and the outside world which the fpga can also do
08:50 AM corecode: but somehow that part can't provide feedback, because there is none
08:50 AM archivist: actually it does
08:50 AM archivist: it has the counters and acceleration curve of that motor
08:51 AM corecode: i see
08:52 AM archivist: so you get this http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/rtcomps.html
08:56 AM archivist: with most machines you different acceleration curves due to masses and the motors you have so not as trivial as it first looks
08:59 AM corecode: so if i wanted to move this step generation to hardware to reduce the realtime requirements, would i create a completely new stepgen-like component?
09:00 AM archivist: and motion they are working in tandem
09:01 AM archivist: and that makes hal difficult
09:02 AM archivist: not a trivial driver problem
09:03 AM corecode: is this related to machinekit and their use of PRUs?
09:05 AM corecode: i honestly still don't understand what the difference between linuxcnc and machinekit is, except that linuxcnc has documentation
09:05 AM archivist: machinekit is a fork thats all
09:06 AM archivist: the pru is like an onboard fpga I suppose
09:07 AM archivist: but I dont follow that project at all
09:55 AM pcw_home: The way LinuxCNC (and Machinekit) partition real time and non real time sections is different than buffered systems like Mach 4 or UCCNC
09:55 AM pcw_home: Mach 4 etc place all of the real time operations at the hardware level (or software on a separate real time motion controller)
09:55 AM pcw_home: There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. LinuxCNC (amd Machinekit) place most of the real time control in the host
09:55 AM pcw_home: though hardware (like a PRU or FPGA or coprocessor) may do the very highest speed operations (step generation, encoder counting, PWM generation etc )
10:05 AM skunkworks_: lod
10:06 AM corecode: pcw_home: thank you
10:06 AM pcw_home: There are also few hardware stepgen driver examples in the LinuxCNC source (HostMot2, Pico Systems, General Mechatronics, etc)
10:07 AM corecode: i'm asking because i'm building an linux/arm controller board with fpga on it, and i'm looking what software i would use to control my 3d (delta) printer
10:07 AM skunkworks_: Also - with mach4/whatever style buffered system - you have to hope everything you want to do is implimented in hardware. (threading, rigid tapping, backlash comp and so on.)
10:08 AM corecode: i see
10:08 AM corecode: well, just putting stepper controls in hardware is already a big relief on realtime requirements
10:08 AM archivist: if building your own board why try to avoid realtime!
10:09 AM skunkworks_: corecode, that is a very common linuxcnc application. Move stepgen, pwmgen and such to hardware
10:09 AM corecode: because linux and realtime is more difficult than fpga and realtime, especially if i want to run some other interface stuff
10:09 AM corecode: i guess bldc could go there as well
10:10 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: lots of play in the control arm bushings
10:11 AM corecode: so now i just need to understand the differences and reasons for the machinekit fork
10:12 AM pcw_home: That's the great thing about LinuxCNC/Machinkit All the fancy motion stuff is out there where people can look at it and fix it
10:12 AM pcw_home: Not in some proprietary add on hardware, Plus LinuxCNC has the same motion capabilities from a minimal Parallel port system
10:12 AM pcw_home: to the fanciest Ethercat based industrial system
10:12 AM corecode: my reasons are to get rid of the silly firmware update thing
10:12 AM corecode: 3d printer firmwares are just a total mess
10:14 AM CaptHindsight: heh marlin
10:14 AM gregcnc: capthindsight looks like first flurries tonight
10:15 AM CaptHindsight: maybe, at least the bugs will finally be gone for the year
10:16 AM pcw_home: Too bad you can't freeze out software bugs
10:17 AM CaptHindsight: that would be a cool solution
10:18 AM pcw_home: :-)
10:18 AM archivist: just need tame geeks to stamp on bugs :)
10:25 AM CaptHindsight: corecode: which ARM soc are you considering for this?
10:27 AM CaptHindsight: corecode: test the video rendering performance before you get surprised/disappointed
10:34 AM corecode: imx6ull
10:34 AM corecode: i'm not planing for video
10:34 AM corecode: or just minimal interface
10:35 AM corecode: CaptHindsight: why do you mention video?
10:41 AM archivist: you generally want some form of user interface
10:42 AM corecode: yea, my printer has a lcd and encoder at the moment
11:39 AM Vitran: Who's talking bad about marlin? I love marlin.
11:40 AM Vitran: My machines have no screen or dials. I do everything through pronterface or Simplify3D
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:31 PM hazzy: Hello Ich
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:32 PM gloops: hi
12:34 PM * hazzy is going to have a candy bar before heading back out to haul dirt for the garden
12:54 PM miss0r: I don't have very much experience with dovetail cutters. But I have decided to do a toolpost for my lathe anyway, using one. So not I am browsing ebay to find a suitable one. Should I go for HSS or carbide? Some considerations that I should do? I would like your thoughts
12:56 PM corecode: i have no practical experience, so all i can offer is slightly theoretical
12:56 PM corecode: what material do you want to build the toolpost from?
12:56 PM miss0r: Cast iron is the plan
12:57 PM corecode: so ductile iron
12:57 PM corecode: i think a hss cutter should work fine then
12:57 PM miss0r: What about if I end up going for some sort of steel?
12:57 PM corecode: how much is the price difference?
12:58 PM miss0r: Probally alot, since ebay does not offer alot of carbide ones - I might have to find one at my local tool pusher... (Looking it up now)
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: niss why not getting a real good set
12:59 PM corecode: HSS doesn't have to be bad
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: C45 is almost good
12:59 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: basically since this is the first time i've needed one.
12:59 PM corecode: you could also hand grind a tool
01:00 PM gloops: fly cutter?
01:01 PM corecode: fly cutter with 60 degree tip, maybe?
01:01 PM miss0r: Absolutly could be done. But, with my workload at the moment, I would rather buy a cutter
01:01 PM corecode: easy then :)
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: https://www.paulimot.de/rund-ums-drehen/schnellwechsel-stahlhalter/system-multifix-groesse-a/250/einzelner-stahlhalter-fuer-system-multifix-groesse-a
01:03 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: Yeah. After carefull consideration, i've decided i'm floating somewhere between money spend/time used. And buying a proper tool post will be too hard on my budget
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: SET of 2 with miltifix https://www.paulimot.de/rund-ums-drehen/schnellwechsel-stahlhalter/system-multifix-groesse-ab/1462/schnellwechsel-stahlhalter-set-fuer-drehbank-system-multifix-groesse-ab
01:03 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Qualcut-7-8-x-60-deg-Dovetail-milling-cutter/162697564592?
01:03 PM gloops: i dont like the look of the chinese ones
01:04 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: I'm not sure I completely understand this. Is that the size you think would suite my lathe?
01:04 PM gloops: all the chinese tct tipped tools ive bought are useless
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: there are 3 Sizel
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: you need to know the height of suppot to midlevel
01:05 PM miss0r: gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCT-Metric-Dovetail-Milling-Machine-Cutter-28-mm-Diameter-60-HSS-From-Chronos/332275611386?epid=8003775422&hash=item4d5d2b76fa:g:YfUAAOSwScdZ1RKX
01:05 PM miss0r: from chronos
01:05 PM corecode: screw shank?
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: if wrong your tool dont get to the center
01:06 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: Yeah. I must admit i'm now considering that one. But I think I would enjoy doing one myself
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: as always
01:06 PM miss0r: corecode: It doesn't matter. Theres plenty of 16mm shank to clamp onto
01:06 PM corecode: ok
01:06 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: Yeah
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: i did mount 3cnc today and got angry about the parts the students made
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: lost 1hr to tread repplacing
01:07 PM miss0r: That doesn't look like a chronos tool... I CAN SEE THE BURS ON THE CUTTING EDGE!
01:07 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: damn
01:07 PM miss0r: on that thought: The next upgrade for my lathe, is to built a thread clock
01:09 PM gloops: useful lol
01:09 PM corecode: that's not very cnc, a thread dial
01:09 PM gloops: everybody uses dies now in the lathe
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: simple hole plate to encoder input
01:13 PM miss0r: My lathe is very manual :)
01:13 PM miss0r: Its the milling machines I have that are CNC
01:13 PM miss0r: Its my way of staying in touch with 'the old ways' I guess. I find it very calming.
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: but somtimes as boaring parts better to cnc
01:13 PM miss0r: Absolutly. I don't have the room for a cnc lathe. I could hardly fit a bigger vacuum in here, honnestly
01:14 PM gloops: there is something very satisfying about cutting a thread
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: i made some spindle endturns i wished the school got a cnc
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: on 24times 3 30mm long 8h7
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: you are realy done
01:15 PM gloops: get die holder for tailstock ichs
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: you messure quite offfen to hit the -0,02 to fit the bearing
01:15 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: Sounds like a hellofa job
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: the school got one cnc lathe but wars never used since 1983
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: if you got pRo help not that bad
01:16 PM miss0r: gloops: I've always preferred single point cutting a thread on the lathe to using a die. also, Where would I keep every die known to man at?
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: but it seams to mee they zerod the big cnc once and made all part without a messurment
01:16 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: I guess
01:16 PM gregcnc: gloops especially when cutting threads on cnc lathe
01:17 PM gloops: see the old skills are dying - a turner would rough those down using the dials
01:17 PM gloops: not measuring
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: if there are dials
01:17 PM gloops: haha
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: i need to make a image of the workroom
01:18 PM gloops: calipers
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: micrometer
01:19 PM gregcnc: the skills aren't dying, there just are far fewer practicing those skills
01:19 PM gloops: i mean steel calipers
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: best is on TR12x3 you go down till tread is off and then some more
01:19 PM gregcnc: where you had shops full of manual lathes, thre is a guy in his basement
01:19 PM gloops: just set slightly big, you can thrash some metal off till you get close
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: i now dropped the price on the CNc to 245Euro complete
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: Education selfmade
01:21 PM gloops: miss0r a bloke here who was set up in his cellar - did a lot of small machining locally, one offs allsorts, must have every machine tape and die there is - big stack of them
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: i think the 28h7 tool has now made 1000holes
01:21 PM miss0r: This is what I did all of last month(as an electrician): http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171024_133319-QGMnaXXD.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171024_103529-kMTbzRed.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171024_103549-54ciPL4h.jpg
01:22 PM gloops: a lot of stuff was scrapped and sold off cheap here though when industry was closed, they got the stuff for nothing
01:22 PM gregcnc: missor what is that for?
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: miss0r: solar inverter
01:22 PM miss0r: It is a 20' shipping container, that has to run a sewage pumping station, while it is being refurbished. That container will be removed and thrown out in 1,5 years... But I did enjoy designing and building it :) I just felt like sharing it with you.
01:23 PM miss0r: Thoes are VFDs, for running pumps
01:23 PM gregcnc: big VFD
01:23 PM gloops: thats a very nice job
01:23 PM miss0r: 4x 90kW 4x 60kW
01:23 PM gregcnc: ok HUGE VFD
01:24 PM miss0r: unfortunatly the programming of the PLC was outsourced... I would have enjoyed that part too
01:25 PM miss0r: You are looking at a project that cost ~$175.000 from scratch to a running station
01:26 PM miss0r: I like to joke, that that 20' container cost as much as my house ;)
01:27 PM JT-Shop: miss0r: all looks ship shape to me :)
01:28 PM miss0r: yeah. When the truck driver came to pick it up, I told him I left a full cup of coffee on the floor inside of it, and should that cups for what ever reason not be full/be where I left it when he has put it down in the dilevery end, there would be hell to pay :)
01:29 PM miss0r: Damn. This place is bad for production. I need to get back to it
01:31 PM gregcnc: Isn't it Friday over there?
01:31 PM miss0r: yeah. and eight in the evening. Now its the shop projects i'm working on
01:33 PM * FinboySlick envies all of you doers. The monkey won't leave him alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU
01:35 PM gregcnc: I'm currently procrastinating a setup where I need to hold something at a dumb angle in my vise repeatedly.
01:37 PM FinboySlick: gregcnc: Single angle or compound angle?
01:38 PM gregcnc: sine bar is too large for my vise. I'm down to milling soft jaws or new angle plates
01:41 PM IchGucksLive: im off gn8
02:07 PM XXCoder: https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/923741769719779328
02:12 PM enleth: pcw_home: were there ever any attempts at interfacing a Mesa board with an EtherCAT device?
02:16 PM sync: you can just interface your ethernet card with them
02:21 PM enleth: sync: I can't find any definitive info on whether it's possible to get hard realtime with EtherCAT under Linux, on a regular (say, server-grade) ethernet card
02:21 PM sync: yes
02:22 PM sync: if you look into a beckhoff switch it is just some cots stuff
02:22 PM enleth: as for why I'm asking - the KUKA robot I have uses EtherCAT for configuration and resolver position feedback
02:24 PM enleth: meanwhile, I managed to blow up one servo drive output stage trying to fix it, I already ordered two more "untested" units that just happened to be available and dirt cheap
02:24 PM enleth: but having a backup plan would be nice
02:25 PM enleth: by saying "blow up" I mean it literally
02:26 PM enleth: probably a messed up solder joint made the IGBT gates float, which caused the driver to short circuit a non-isolated 800VDC bus
02:28 PM enleth: the package was pretty hefty, but it got torn apart like tissue paper
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EtherCatDriver
02:29 PM enleth: huh, go figure
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ericlwilkinson.com/blog/2015/5/31/ethercat-development-guide-for-linux
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: make your own slave boards
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.etherlab.org/de/ethercat/index.php
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.etherlab.org/en/ethercat/hardware.php
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: beware "Since version 1.5, there is a generic Ethernet driver among the native ones, that spans all Ethernet devices supported by the Linux kernel. Although it is not usable with realtime patches like RTAI (because it uses the lower network stack layers), it runs perfectly with realtime preemption."
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: so preemp_rt only for now
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: have to see about RTAI, NTULINUX did have RTnet working with RTAI a couple of years ago
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.rtnet.org/
02:35 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: I don't need to make a slave board if I only need the whole thing to communicate with an existing EtherCAT device, right?
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: device/slave yes
02:37 PM enleth: I suppose it is a slave, it wouldn't make much sense for KUKA to have it the other way around
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: so try it on your boards NIC and with your EtherCAT device
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: EtherCAT uses the term slave vs device
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: you'll need configs for your slave
02:40 PM enleth: that could be tricky
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/sittner/linuxcnc-ethercat/tree/master/src examples for slaves
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: and then there are examples for the HAL configs
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/sittner/linuxcnc-ethercat/tree/master/examples/swm-fm45a
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: so you'll need docs for your slave if there are no configs for it yet
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: to write them
02:46 PM Connor: Hey guys.. anyone care to take a look at this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sPyBSq8Sj8 and tell me what you think the dimensions of those bars are? I think they're probably 1" x 2" x 28" long. (I know the distance from the 2 middle holes is 20"). I also think the feet are around 4".
02:46 PM Connor: Next question would be.. A36 or 1018 for the steel?? Which one..?
02:47 PM XXCoder: Connor: you could take a sxreenshot, then draw a line on feet and use that line as measuring system
02:47 PM Connor: I've done that.. I just want a second opinion..
02:48 PM XXCoder: ahh ok
02:48 PM XXCoder: ask the author?
02:48 PM XXCoder: they poosted phone number apparently
02:48 PM Connor: It's a commercial product.. They probably wouldn't want to tell because, I'm basically making my own.. :)
02:49 PM XXCoder: ah makes sense. though maybe "I want to be sure your product fits...
02:49 PM XXCoder: though cant ask what metal is probably
02:49 PM Connor: The A36 vs 1018 is the bigger questions.. A36 is cheaper..
02:52 PM XXCoder: rocket science https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7DaYRLh9GF8/S0k7U9JLCcI/AAAAAAAAAfM/nRr_fAcNwn4/s1600-h/a+science+zazzle+rocket+science.gif
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: run the numbers on both types of steel
02:54 PM Connor: ??
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: or just make them thicker and be done with it
02:56 PM Connor: A36 58000 psi Tensile, 36300 psi Yield, 1018 is 63000 psi tensile, 53700 psi yield.. Hence 1018 is more expensive.. I think the A36 would work just fine..
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.capitalsteel.net/news/blog/a36-vs-1018-steel-comparison
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: yes
02:58 PM Connor: Yup.. exact same page I pulled that info from.
02:58 PM Connor: :)
03:38 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-2-Axis-X-Y-Bed-table-On-Linear-Rails/172937355321?
03:48 PM miss0r: Speaking of the olden standards earlier in here, made me use the old wire string for wire management: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20171027_221507-c6bWCiu4.jpg
03:48 PM miss0r: I've gotten rusty :D
03:51 PM miss0r: The idea is, with this method, you can put a bit of talcum powder on the bound wire afterwards, and feel them sease up as you move them into place. They are rock solid because of the friction caused by the powder between the wires - A good little trick, should anyone need it ;)
03:59 PM sync: I usually just use zipties and a ziptie gun
04:00 PM sync: and properly twisted looms
04:01 PM JT-Shop: miss0r: you should see some of the control enclosures in the local factory... sometimes you just want to close the door and walk away
04:01 PM miss0r: Indeed. Me as well. I just got caught up in moment. And I still have something like 2km of this special cable tie string laying around. Its flat and waxed.
04:02 PM miss0r: JT-Shop: I've seen my fair share. The worst of them I've worked on - as in troubleshooting.
04:03 PM miss0r: Hehe. I went to a factory in Poland for work at one point. (I'm from Denmark). We had some controllers build down there... I didn't even know where to begin. I mean, i've seen some crazy wiring in my time, but that place took the cake. :D
04:04 PM JT-Shop: lol
04:04 PM JT-Shop: I've been to Denmark a few times
04:04 PM miss0r: On behalf of the more moderate of us, I would like to apologise for the rest of us :)
04:05 PM miss0r: Heh. I get all curious about visitors. How did you like it?
04:05 PM JT-Shop: lol, we were buying equipment from a company in Middelfart
04:05 PM miss0r: yeah, which one?
04:05 PM JT-Shop: I had a good time for a business trip
04:05 PM JT-Shop: Enkotec
04:06 PM miss0r: that vaugely rings a bell..
04:06 PM JT-Shop: they make nail making equipment
04:06 PM miss0r: I wonder why that rings a bell... I have no idea actualy
04:07 PM miss0r: Should you ever be back around these parts, let me know. I'll arrange for a beer ;)
04:08 PM miss0r: Bleh, its getting late. I'll call it a night. See you around
04:08 PM JT-Shop: ok
04:09 PM JT-Shop: good night
04:24 PM * JT-Shop takes a break from assembling stand offs and goes back to plc programming
04:25 PM Deejay: gn8
05:04 PM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/zal.zal.16752/videos/367780633681055/? anyone in here? <-
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I'm not here
05:09 PM gloops: ok
05:09 PM gloops: just checking
05:09 PM MarcelineVQ: what is it?
05:10 PM gloops: 5 axis build
05:10 PM Connor: Anyone know the bolt hole size in the base of the bridgeport ? Older manuals say 5/8" But, I think the newer ones might be 1/2"
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: the one here from ~1060 has 0.60" holes
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: heh 1960
05:12 PM gloops: just trying to think which malfunctioning 60s robot it reminds me of
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: I wish I had a mill from 1060
05:12 PM gloops: windmill?
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: danger Will Robinson?
05:13 PM gloops: yeah could be
05:13 PM gloops: warning! warning!
05:13 PM Connor: OKay... so 1/2 it is then.. Wonder why the manuals say 5/8"
05:14 PM Connor: http://www.truetex.com/bridgeport-manual.pdf
05:14 PM Connor: sec 1.3 for Floor Pan.
05:15 PM Connor: They also have the thickness for the casting thinner than mine.. Mine is around 5 or so inches..
05:16 PM Connor: http://manuals.chudov.com/Bridgeport/Bridgeport-Operators-Manual-1964.pdf 1964 manual...
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: 16mm
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: the first hole I measured as full of crud
05:18 PM Connor: OKay.. so that is 5/8"
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: yes
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: or in my case after a cleaning and light filing
05:20 PM Connor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sPyBSq8Sj8
05:21 PM Connor: Looks like they're using 1/2 Bolts (says you need 3/4" wrench) for the attachment bolts.. and 5/8" (says you need 15/16 wrench) for the feet.
05:21 PM Tom_L: if you have a 5A/phase stepper and you limit your driver to say 3A what happens?
05:21 PM Connor: Unless I have them backwards.. but.. looks like the feet bolt are larger than the attachment bolts.
05:21 PM Connor: I guess having a little play won't hurt..
05:24 PM sync: they don't get as warm Tom_L
05:25 PM MarcelineVQ: Tom_L: I would expect the max torq to dive
05:25 PM Tom_L: i'm sure the torque would suffer
05:25 PM Tom_L: just curious
05:26 PM gloops: im no electrician but yes less torque
05:27 PM Tom_L: i'm debating between 570 and 425 oz/in steppers
05:27 PM Tom_L: the former is 5A latter is 3
05:27 PM gloops: theres a dipswitch on the chinese ones to drop amps to half when not moving - stops overheating
05:27 PM Tom_L: my driver will support either one
05:28 PM evilroot: Any ideas on where to get a base plate for my machines?
05:28 PM MarcelineVQ: there's a neat calc here, though it's just a rough idea since your driver/stepper pair matters https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/stepper-motor-calculator/
05:28 PM evilroot: I see these aluminum tables with tracks on people's builds, but can't find them online
05:28 PM gloops: t slot ally?
05:30 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Extrusion-T-Slot-Plate-15180-15x180mm-Profile-CNC-Table-3D-Printer/172691228708?
05:32 PM Tom_L: i considered using an aluminum plate for mine
05:32 PM Tom_L: with tapped holes
05:33 PM gloops: would cost 300 notes to do mine
05:33 PM Tom_L: i put such a plate on my sherline and never use the slots anyway
05:33 PM gloops: its good though
05:33 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/stock_index.php
05:33 PM Tom_L: i'm hooked up
05:34 PM gloops: handy venue
05:34 PM gloops: scarce in this stupid country these days, rules and red tape
05:34 PM MarcelineVQ: Does that business have a name? I'd like to search for similar near me
05:35 PM evilroot: Holy crap, where is that?
05:35 PM Tom_L: in my back yard :)
05:35 PM Tom_L: figuratively speaking
05:35 PM evilroot: Also my table needs to be 600x400mm
05:35 PM evilroot: For my robots
05:35 PM Tom_L: i'm sure they could acomodate you
05:36 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/7.jpg
05:36 PM gloops: well the ally is ok for some applications, for wood a lot of things are best screw down to the bed for machining though
05:36 PM gloops: cant be pussy-footing about with a bed you darent scratch
05:37 PM MarcelineVQ: I've seen a few vacuum beds that looked pretty neat, worked well, manging what holes are covered seemed like a hassle
05:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/ToolingPlate.jpg
05:38 PM Tom_L: something like that is what i have in mind
05:38 PM gloops: probably best way Tom
05:39 PM evilroot: https://www.ebay.com/itm/32-x-30-x-7-5-Aluminum-T-Slotted-Table-Layout-Fixture-Plate-Weld-Jig-5-SLOT/151666205094?hash=item235002a1a6%3Ag%3Av2oAAOSweW5VQkER&_trkparms=pageci%253A694e55b8-bb62-11e7-bcc9-74dbd180714b%257Cparentrq%253A5fdadfc615f0a9cb1be8098ffffcad2f%257Ciid%253A35
05:39 PM evilroot: This looks nice . . . .
05:40 PM gloops: Marcel quickest way is to screw down to a spoilboard, screw in waste areas, you can place spots in the design in waste areas to machine first so you know where to screw
05:40 PM evilroot: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-T-Slot-Plate-Fixture-Plate-24-x16-Clamping/272549357755?hash=item3f753528bb%3Ag%3ARcIAAOSw9GhYmi9R&_trkparms=pageci%253A694e55b8-bb62-11e7-bcc9-74dbd180714b%257Cparentrq%253A5fdadfc615f0a9cb1be8098ffffcad2f%257Ciid%253A17
05:40 PM evilroot: Hmm, just the right size
05:41 PM gloops: thats looks more substantial
05:41 PM MarcelineVQ: evilroot: what's the cost of that material where you are? t-slot cutters aren't ridiculously expensive
05:42 PM * JT-Shop used 74% of the program area on this PLC 5,927 steps
05:43 PM evilroot: MarcelineVQ: no idea
05:43 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Granite-Table/122775968797?
05:43 PM evilroot: This isn't exactly my specialty
05:43 PM gloops: thats good stuff too, bugger to screw to though lol
05:43 PM evilroot: Don't want stone
05:43 PM MarcelineVQ: bid just to win at that price
05:44 PM gloops: doubt it will stay at that
05:44 PM MarcelineVQ: seller will have a friend ready to put in a minimum for sure
05:44 PM gloops: would be great if you could screw linear bearings straight to that
05:44 PM sync: you can tho
05:44 PM gloops: got some pain on sync
05:45 PM evilroot: Oh that reminds me
05:45 PM evilroot: I decided to break down my CMM for parts
05:45 PM gloops: the ultimate low vibe solid slab
05:45 PM evilroot: It has a pretty nice slab on it
05:45 PM evilroot: https://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_cYkW6WY1LB5_1200x900.jpg
05:45 PM evilroot: Linear rails already attached, heh
05:46 PM gloops: i dunno these slabs go for fair price, a few hundred id say
05:47 PM sync: nah, they cost that new at best
05:47 PM gloops: could use self tapping concrete screws
05:47 PM sync: 630x630 from a reputable source is like 350€
05:47 PM sync: I would probably glue in anchors
05:48 PM gloops: glue the bolts in with resin yes
05:49 PM gloops: i might have a stab at that slab if nobody is interested
05:50 PM sync: the problem with them is qualifying them for use
05:50 PM gloops: how do you mean?
05:50 PM MarcelineVQ: gloops: perfect flatness prob
05:50 PM sync: they wear out
05:50 PM gloops: oh yes
05:50 PM gloops: thats probably why that one is on ebay
05:51 PM sync: nah
05:51 PM gloops: the rest of the stuff hes selling shot
05:51 PM sync: friend of mine bought a good plate of the scrapyard for cheap
05:51 PM sync: measured it with my autocollimator and it is fine
05:51 PM gloops: im not interested in the precision really, it would make a good base in some ways for a router though
05:52 PM gloops: would have to bore some holes straight through to fit a spoilboard
05:53 PM MarcelineVQ: could glue your spoiler
05:54 PM MarcelineVQ: face it down when it gets ugly and glue a new one to that :>
05:54 PM gloops: could, but would be a pain to change
05:54 PM gloops: the block wont go cheap anyway lol, id have it for next to nothing
05:54 PM MarcelineVQ: your other option is to make a machine perfect enough to not need a spoiler, that might be harder
05:54 PM * JT-Shop would like some time to do fun stuff but the work just keeps piling up lol now one plant wants me to do a robot project to pack product
05:56 PM gloops: probably better to be getting paid for it JT - than spending on it
05:57 PM MarcelineVQ: take pics
05:57 PM JT-Shop: I agree, I rather have a huge tax bill at the end of the year than pay nothing lol
06:02 PM * JT-Shop should be down in the chicken yard with warm chickens on his lap not assembling parts and looking for the bottom of the box lol
06:06 PM gloops: i think mashed potatoes must be their favourite food
06:06 PM gloops: a lot of people are feeding them yoghurt here - apparently very good to get them laying
06:07 PM MarcelineVQ: I wonder if it is. People are probably thinking the dairy will have calcium but I wonder if that is actually taken up by them
06:07 PM MarcelineVQ: Probably doesn't hurt at the very least
06:10 PM gloops: bit of a buzz thing on the allotment pages recently
06:12 PM MarcelineVQ: worth trying anything rally happy chickens are healthy eggs
06:13 PM andypugh: Can you spot the newly-made parts? https://shapertools.com
06:13 PM andypugh: Oops, sorry, ignore that.
06:14 PM MarcelineVQ: hey I seen one of those in a vidja one time
06:14 PM andypugh: I meant to send this link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Y7j655F5wTSlD85F2
06:14 PM XXCoder: shaper needs very expensive tape
06:14 PM MarcelineVQ: The one I saw had a more protected screen
06:14 PM andypugh: Not that the hand-held-CNC router isn’t interesting (and I want one)
06:16 PM MarcelineVQ: pardon my ignorance but is that a horizontal mill?
06:16 PM andypugh: My photo is of the adaptor I am making for a high-speed vertical spindle on my low-speed universal milling machine.
06:16 PM gloops: yes the lower dovetailed lump
06:17 PM MarcelineVQ: neat universal
06:18 PM andypugh: There’s a circular T-slot between the castings: https://photos.app.goo.gl/fg5E3v1LXmBvUwxB2
06:19 PM MarcelineVQ: Do you do your own casting?
06:20 PM andypugh: No, I use a place in Birmingham.
06:21 PM andypugh: MarcelineVQ: This is another of the machines tricks, it can hob gears: https://youtu.be/PFTHY5U8v-U
06:21 PM andypugh: The castings in the photo cost £50 and £65 each.
06:22 PM MarcelineVQ: there's something about making gears that is just magical
06:23 PM MarcelineVQ: watching someone make the hobb to make the gears to make the machine to make the hobb to ... :>
06:25 PM andypugh: I reckon I could make hobs. Setting up a CNC lathe to do relieving isn’t super hard.
06:27 PM andypugh: But the eccentric+rachet “Eureka” relieveing tool is super clever: https://youtu.be/kJ8kyC_bpHs
06:31 PM MarcelineVQ: cnc gear grinding machines are quite beautiful, they have these huge spiral stones
06:51 PM gloops: it is a funny thing this
06:52 PM gloops: i mean, there are all kinds of skilled men, (and women) making all kinds of things
06:53 PM gloops: a master wood carver or joiner or mason or goldsmith, everyone sees his work, marvels at it, recognises his excellence and so on
06:53 PM gloops: but a gear is also an accomplished thing to make - but rarely does anyone see it
06:54 PM gloops: when you think of all those blokes in those old factories, making these great things, no glamour, no recognition or anything
07:03 PM andypugh: My dad used to work for a gear company.
07:03 PM andypugh: They made big gears.
07:04 PM andypugh: Like: This big: https://dbsantasalo.com/media/1233/girth-gear.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=600&height=600&rnd=131260103890000000
07:05 PM gloops: that is a pretty big gear lol
07:05 PM gloops: well that must have been a fulfilling career andy
07:06 PM andypugh: I reckon so, he worked there for 49 years.
07:07 PM andypugh: (Mainly flying around the world working out what had broken and getting it fixed. Gears that size lose millions a week when not working.)
07:08 PM gloops: yeah can imagine, when wheels that size stop turning
07:10 PM gloops: just trying to think of some applications, turntables, winding gear, bridges maybe
07:11 PM gloops: cant remember the name of the big static steam engine at sheffield, i think that turns a big gear, was a flywheel i think
07:18 PM gloops: anyway bed
07:38 PM MarcelineVQ: got my chinaco psu for the steppers. they could probably tack 5$ onto these if they shipped them with a little bracket for strain relief for the mains connection
07:38 PM MarcelineVQ: I'd have payed that much for that, not that it'll be hard to make something up
07:40 PM Tom_L: seems suspicious a 623 in oz stepper was rated at 3.5A
07:40 PM MarcelineVQ: they're all over the place it's whack, I've seen 215~oz steppers @ 4.5a, 420 @ 3a
07:41 PM Tom_L: makes you wonder if they're just throwing out numbers to get a sale
07:41 PM MarcelineVQ: anecdotally the 'low-noise' ones seem to use more amps
07:41 PM MarcelineVQ: whatever low-noise means
07:41 PM Tom_L: i'm looking at that one and a 570 oz in at 5A
07:43 PM Tom_L: hard to grasp how a higher torque stepper could draw fewer amps
07:43 PM MarcelineVQ: might be taking higher voltage
07:43 PM MarcelineVQ: low inductance and high torque are, as far as I've learned at this point, the numbers to be paying attention to
07:46 PM Tom_L: 570 is 2.5uH per phase at 3v, the 623 is 4.7uH per phase at 4.9v
07:47 PM Tom_L: could someone translate that for me?
07:47 PM Tom_L: :)
07:47 PM MarcelineVQ: as I understand it inductance is what determines your theoretical max speed and torque is torque
07:47 PM Tom_L: higher inductance is higher max speed?
07:47 PM MarcelineVQ: lower I think, lemme check
07:48 PM Tom_L: makes sense
07:48 PM Tom_L: since the current is also higher on the lower inductance one
07:48 PM MarcelineVQ: yes. higher inductance, lower speed
07:49 PM Tom_L: probably larger ga winding wire
07:49 PM MarcelineVQ: a chart like this can give you some ideas about what relates to what https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1kgWUHXXXXXaAXVXXq6xXFXXXl/221908926/HTB1kgWUHXXXXXaAXVXXq6xXFXXXl.jpg?width=850&height=901&hash=a18950392e01803d456838f998569b49&size=442501
07:49 PM MarcelineVQ: oh bother, I hate havign to clip off the metadata
07:49 PM MarcelineVQ: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1kgWUHXXXXXaAXVXXq6xXFXXXl/221908926/HTB1kgWUHXXXXXaAXVXXq6xXFXXXl.jpg
07:50 PM MarcelineVQ: lets you compare motor case size and amps and torque, etc
07:52 PM MarcelineVQ: for the 5A range, the resistance and volt and amp relations, it suggests there a wire size change at certain models along with the voltage changes
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yes, they tend to just throw numbers out there
07:53 PM MarcelineVQ: dunno if that's the case, I'm pretty new to that
07:53 PM MarcelineVQ: or if not wire size than windings at least
07:55 PM Tom_L: either one would be suitable for the job i believe
07:56 PM MarcelineVQ: 570oz is a lot of power
07:56 PM Tom_L: the ones on my sherline are 282
07:56 PM Tom_L: and they do ok for it
07:57 PM Tom_L: kinda hard to believe they can pack that in a nema23 case
07:57 PM MarcelineVQ: just makes it longer hehe
07:57 PM Tom_L: probably quadruple stack :)
07:57 PM MarcelineVQ: at some point you gotta wonder how much stress that is on those 4 little bolt holes though
07:57 PM gregcnc: 1kW servos? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/newly-posted-classifieds-listings/347828-sanyo-denki-p5-1000-watt-brushless-servo.html#post2108290
07:58 PM nullifier: :(
07:58 PM nullifier: I have the amps to those
07:58 PM MarcelineVQ: interesting, $100 is a good price for a shitty servo let alone some big beef
07:58 PM nullifier: well... a little overboard
07:59 PM nullifier: only calls for 50A, I have 100A full-close amps
08:01 PM gregcnc: A single 5mm screw can clamp over 1000kg. so 4Nm servos clamped by 4 M5 screws is no trouble
08:01 PM MarcelineVQ: it's the holes I worry about ehe
08:02 PM MarcelineVQ: that is to say a little vibration doesn't take long to put cracks in things
08:02 PM gregcnc: no problem, unless your'e using aluminum foil to build the mount
08:03 PM MarcelineVQ: but foil is so versatile!
08:03 PM * evilroot yawns
08:03 PM gregcnc: doesn't Ich use big steppers?
08:04 PM MarcelineVQ: I've heard that, though not from Ich
08:04 PM andypugh: 4 little bolts and a big spigot.
08:06 PM andypugh: (And I reckon $100 each for those is a great price)
08:06 PM evilroot: That is a good deal
08:06 PM evilroot: Wonder how precise the encoders are
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: are you trying to say that my mounts are too flimsy?
08:07 PM gregcnc: not if you used the heavy duty foil
08:08 PM CaptHindsight: the finest imported from China, hardly even toxic
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: whats the tensile strength of depleted uranium?
08:09 PM gregcnc: does it have any left if it's depleted?
08:10 PM skunkworks_: is this heavy enough? http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/yassembly.JPG
08:10 PM Tom_L: drop it on your toe and tell us :)
08:10 PM evilroot: http://www.guns.com/2013/04/01/tacnitions-new-12-gauge-depleted-uranium-drone-loads/
08:11 PM MarcelineVQ: evilroot: oh my yes please, take down those annoying neighborhood drones
08:11 PM MarcelineVQ: I can't believe how loud those are allowed to be right where people live
08:12 PM evilroot: Well there are more rules now
08:12 PM evilroot: But yeah
08:12 PM MarcelineVQ: that is to say, if your gov. is going to regulate everything anyway can't they regulate that?
08:12 PM evilroot: They've passed some stuff already
08:12 PM evilroot: You have to register and there are places that are off limits
08:13 PM gregcnc: free the drones
08:49 PM andypugh: skunkworks_: One of my servo mounts weighs 40kg :-) https://photos.app.goo.gl/ylRbUGmZzCcCYXvt1
09:16 PM Tom_L: in catia assembly there's an operation "propegate directory" which copies all files in the assembly to one directory. what's SW's counterpart for this?
09:19 PM andypugh: In Inventor it is “Pack and Go”
09:19 PM andypugh: Not that that is in any way an answer to the question asked.
09:32 PM hazzy: SW is “Pack and Go” as well
09:32 PM Tom_L: where do you find it?
09:32 PM hazzy: File menu, I think
09:33 PM Tom_L: i'll look later on
09:33 PM Tom_L: i was gonna ask you something but i forgot what it was :(
09:33 PM hazzy: Don't make me boot to windows again :)
09:33 PM hazzy: :(
09:34 PM hazzy: I hate when that happens!
09:34 PM hazzy: How is the design coming along?
09:35 PM Tom_L: i'm gonna make a few changes i think but ok for the most part
09:35 PM Tom_L: trying to figure what my Y travel will be
09:35 PM Tom_L: kinda determines how far the neck will hang over the table
09:35 PM Tom_L: and i wanna make sure that's beefy enough
09:35 PM hazzy: yes File > Pack and Go.
09:35 PM Tom_L: hahaha
09:36 PM Tom_L: you booted windows! nanana
09:36 PM hazzy: No, google!
09:43 PM Tom_L: i did pick up some scrap iron today though
09:48 PM hazzy: Great! It helps having some material on hand to mock up and get an idea for strength/rigidity
09:49 PM Tom_L: yeah sure does
09:51 PM sync: or just run a quick simulation
09:55 PM hazzy: The best sims can't beat making a quick mock up, at least for me
09:55 PM * hazzy is whipped
09:55 PM hazzy: I hauled 5 pickup beds FULL of soggy compost for the garden today. Hand dug and shoved in and then out and spread. Thinking about 5000 lbs moved total.
09:55 PM hazzy: To bed early :)
09:56 PM hazzy: gn8
10:06 PM Tom_L: ttyl
10:56 PM evilroot: Blah, its getting near first frost here
10:56 PM evilroot: My garden will die :-(
10:57 PM MarcelineVQ: we've got plastic on our garden to try and get the tomatoes finished up before frost
11:13 PM evilroot: I picked the last I'll get this season yesterday