#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 25 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:01 AM rue_mohr: anyone have a clever use for a drafting table?
12:03 AM hazzy: MSC is good, but I dearly miss ENCO :(
12:03 AM hazzy: rue_mohr: Yes, I stack boxes on mine :D
12:03 AM rue_mohr: :/
12:03 AM rue_mohr: mine is mushed up in the corner of the livingroom, taking up 1/3 of the space
12:03 AM MarcelineVQ: capactivie touch control unit
12:03 AM hazzy: Its a mayline too, its a shame to wast it, but with CAD ...
12:03 AM rue_mohr: yea
12:03 AM rue_mohr: I was all excited at sitting down and drawing stuff
12:03 AM rue_mohr: yea.....
12:03 AM rue_mohr: "Platform does not support CUT, COPY, MOVE, or SCALE operations..."
12:03 AM rue_mohr: :/
12:03 AM rue_mohr: or ZOOM
12:04 AM hazzy: Oh, I forgot I had a drafting machine back there! I should make it into a tapping arm
12:04 AM Tom_L: just tossed a digitizer pad the other day
12:04 AM Tom_L: no room
12:04 AM rue_mohr: hmm, would I use a digitizer....
12:04 AM rue_mohr: no
12:04 AM rue_mohr: huh
12:04 AM Tom_L: i scanned alot of mylars with it
12:05 AM rue_mohr: I can cad things pretty efficently
12:06 AM Tom_L: some were odd shapes for making hydro blocks
12:06 AM rue_mohr: I suppose if I had a 23 button mouse with all the operations right on it...
12:09 AM rue_mohr: hmm, prolly not hard to make that now
12:09 AM Tom_L: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826154013&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Mouse-_-N82E16826154013&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4trZsfmK1wIVSW5-Ch1gMg7iEAQYAiABEgKHCfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
12:09 AM Tom_L: they've got those at the vo-tec
12:09 AM Tom_L: nobody uses em
12:09 AM rue_mohr: $300 ouch
12:09 AM rue_mohr: I have....
12:09 AM Tom_L: on all the cad stations too..
12:09 AM MarcelineVQ: joystick ones are for surface modeling
12:09 AM Tom_L: probably 20 or more
12:09 AM Wolf__: I like my space mouse
12:09 AM Wolf__: I have the cheap ones tho
12:09 AM Tom_L: https://www.walmart.com/ip/3D-Connexion-3DX-700028-SpaceNavigator-3D-Mouse/10248083?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=638&adid=22222222227000008526&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40880106392&wl4=aud-273067695102:pla-46694086821&wl5=9024248&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112343685&wl11=online&wl12=10248083&wl13=&veh=sem
12:09 AM rue_mohr: https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/ORAAAOSwqfpZvZam/s-l225.jpg
12:09 AM Tom_L: i considered one of those
12:09 AM rue_mohr: one of those gathering dust on a shelf
12:09 AM Tom_L: i've been doing without too long, i'd never get used to one
12:09 AM rue_mohr: 2d cad, 2.5d via openscad, happy me
12:10 AM Tom_L: i just wish i could map my mouse in SW like it is in catia
12:10 AM rue_mohr: hey I made most of the keypad for my new pendant today
12:10 AM rue_mohr: the printed parts worked out ok
12:10 AM Tom_L: damn.. i _was_ headed to sleep
12:11 AM rue_mohr: so you said
12:11 AM Tom_L: later...
12:12 AM rue_mohr: yea, stay up and talk
12:12 AM MarcelineVQ: stay awhile and listen
12:12 AM hazzy: Tom_L: You can set the mouse to do whateva ya like in SW
12:12 AM hazzy: Mine does all kinds of crazy stuff :D
12:14 AM hazzy: Nobody will ever use be able to use SW on my PC! It is like this: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/borrow_your_laptop.png
12:14 AM rue_mohr: mmm it makes me want to chew away on my cam software
12:15 AM rue_mohr: I'll be thrilled if I can input a dxf with points and get it to set up drilling them for me
12:15 AM MarcelineVQ: have you tried nativecam? could be ideal if you just want to set up drill holes
12:16 AM hazzy: What do you use for CAM?
12:16 AM MarcelineVQ: I've not used it just yet
12:16 AM hazzy: Yea, nativecam is great for simple things
12:16 AM rue_mohr: right now I'm using bamcam cambam? anyhow, its close to what I want
12:16 AM rue_mohr: I want mastercam, whatever.
12:17 AM hazzy: you want HSMWorks! mastercam sucks :D
12:17 AM rue_mohr: does HSMworks use the same method?
12:18 AM rue_mohr: take 2d and perform 3d ops with them?
12:18 AM hazzy: You mean like 2.5D?
12:18 AM rue_mohr: yes, 2.5D
12:19 AM hazzy: No, HSM is full 3D
12:19 AM rue_mohr: no I want 2.5D
12:21 AM hazzy: But you can always to 2.5 D if you want :)
12:21 AM rue_mohr: so, I wonder if I can pull off box ways without moving the workpeice in the mill
12:21 AM rue_mohr: there seems to be that trick of trapping the brass shims by having a tapped hole between the materials
12:22 AM rue_mohr: like that
12:22 AM * rue_mohr puts it in his cart
12:22 AM rue_mohr: welind should only harden a metal if you cool it fast, right?
12:22 AM rue_mohr: welding even
12:23 AM hazzy: Depends, with steel mostly yes
12:24 AM rue_mohr: if I throw a peice of insulation over a weld while it cools, it should come out quite reasonable to mill then
12:24 AM rue_mohr: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lwxXYGTSLL4/UDIijc5cgKI/AAAAAAAAEjc/wHwUt_6Laz0/s800/IMGP3475.JPG
12:25 AM hazzy: Yes, I think you should be fine. Especially if it is something like A36 or 1018
12:25 AM rue_mohr: tell me machinces that are actaully used dont come out this clean
12:25 AM rue_mohr: oo its a tub!
12:25 AM * rue_mohr puts that idea in his cart
12:26 AM hazzy: Heh, a baby in a wash tub!
12:26 AM hazzy: Everything in that shop look suspiciously clean ...
12:27 AM rue_mohr: yea, too clean to have ever really been used
12:27 AM MarcelineVQ: huh... either there's a system error or msc shipping is free to me, I'm guessing the former but if it's the latter I'm thrilled
12:27 AM rue_mohr: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1964013 nobody likes it, but I ahve a pendant design I like
12:28 AM hazzy: I don't think I have ever paid shipping at MSC
12:28 AM MarcelineVQ: Ain't nobody else ever shipped 1 bit to me for free
12:28 AM MarcelineVQ: not to canada :>
12:28 AM MarcelineVQ: We'll see though
12:29 AM MarcelineVQ: their product sorting for bits is top notch
12:31 AM hazzy: OK, getting late here. night fellows!
12:31 AM MarcelineVQ: bai
12:31 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/vise/p1090458.jpg
12:31 AM rue_mohr: anyone seen a design for a welded vise like this?
12:31 AM rue_mohr: I just ad-hocked it
12:32 AM rue_mohr: with ideas from the net
12:32 AM rue_mohr: its mostly angle
12:32 AM MarcelineVQ: looks like the vice my chop-saw uses but built to last
12:32 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/vise/p1090459.jpg
12:32 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/vise/p1090460.jpg
12:33 AM rue_mohr: I was amused, that block on the jaw was the ONLY large block I had
12:33 AM rue_mohr: tried to square it on the lathe, blew it
12:34 AM rue_mohr: if your wondering, the threaded is turned down, with a notch in it, there is a brass pin under the thumbscrew there that fits in it, thumbscrew holds it in
12:35 AM rue_mohr: the sides are parallel within 2 thou, but then I screwed up the block under the jaw
12:36 AM rue_mohr: dealing with weld warping was fun
12:38 AM rue_mohr: :/ I cant find a more up to date image of the pendant... drat
12:38 AM rue_mohr: gnight
12:39 AM MarcelineVQ: :o bai
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: good morning from Germany
02:20 AM gloops: slight confusion in 2.8 hal
02:22 AM gloops: i made a basic stepconfig xyz, in the ini i made an extra joint for X so X has 2 joints
02:23 AM gloops: in the hal i made an extra joint section, but what do i call it?
02:24 AM gloops: i mean how is it knowing it should be the x ii
02:24 AM gloops: (if i dont call it X)
02:25 AM Deejay: moin
02:26 AM gloops: ahh ok the joints are numbered yes i remember
02:28 AM alex_joni: gloops: for XXYZ you have joint 0,1,2,3
02:29 AM alex_joni: s/joint/joints/
02:30 AM gloops: alex yes i was not thinking about the number sequence
02:30 AM gloops: so in hal i can call the 2 x joints - x and xx
02:31 AM gloops: net xstep <= stepgen.1.step net xdir <= stepgen.1.dir net xenable joint.1.amp-enable-out => stepgen.1.enable
02:32 AM gloops: so where you see that, the second x motor would be - net xxstep <= stepgen.1.step
02:36 AM gloops: and gives a reference for setting parport pin..?
02:50 AM archivist: "gives a reference for setting parport pin" what is that supposed to mean
02:57 AM gloops: well how can i set a pin for that motor without some reference to it?
02:57 AM gloops: getting an error message anyway
02:57 AM archivist: do you mean a name to refer to
02:58 AM gloops: yes
02:58 AM archivist: nets have names
02:59 AM gloops: hal90 parameter or pin 'stepgen.3.position-scale' not found
02:59 AM gloops: also warning about DOS style endings
02:59 AM archivist: stop using windows
02:59 AM gloops: its not on windows lol
03:00 AM archivist: look at how many stepgens you created and their numbers
03:00 AM archivist: dos endings come from some windaz
03:00 AM MarcelineVQ: dat old \n\r
03:01 AM MarcelineVQ: \r\n I guess ehe, gotta go to the start then move down
03:01 AM gloops: its all there, i made stepgen 3
03:04 AM archivist: 0-2 or 1-3
03:06 AM archivist: and.... I thought you wanted 4 in this case
03:09 AM gloops: ive got joints 0,1,2,3
03:09 AM gloops: in the ini 0,1 are under X axis
03:09 AM gloops: 2,3 are Y and Z
03:10 AM gloops: probably have to leave it while later now anyway, i think ive got most of it right
03:16 AM gloops: wonder if xx is the problem
03:17 AM archivist: the error message is the problem
03:17 AM gloops: it cant be reading that like x,x
03:21 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
04:58 AM jthornton: morning
05:01 AM MarcelineVQ: is the day so young?
05:02 AM archivist: morning coffee time
05:05 AM XXCoder: hys
05:46 AM nallar is now known as Ross
06:02 AM Deejay: o0
06:03 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:05 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: are you on
06:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi ronaldo ;-) how wars the game yesterday ?
06:34 AM Tom_L: 39įF
06:35 AM jthornton: 36f
06:36 AM jthornton: last poe camera I got was a rebranded hikvision with security set so high you can on access the camera with onvif lol\
06:36 AM jthornton: dropped off a package at the local ups store and they charged me a dollar to tape the label on lol\
06:37 AM MarcelineVQ: heh
08:10 AM gloops: https://justpaste.it/1csku
08:11 AM gloops: see anything wrong with that?
08:12 AM archivist: easier for you to state the error message
08:13 AM gloops: cant copy it -
08:14 AM gloops: hal90 parameter or pin 'stepgen 3 position-scale not found'
08:16 AM gloops: setp stepgen.3.position-scale [JOINT_3]SCALE setp stepgen.3.steplen 1 setp stepgen.3.stepspace 0 setp stepgen.3.dirhold 35000 setp stepgen.3.dirsetup 35000 setp stepgen.3.maxaccel [JOINT_3]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL net zpos-cmd joint.3.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.3.position-cmd net zpos-fb stepgen.3.position-fb => joint.3.motor-pos-fb net zstep <= stepgen.3.step net zdir <= stepgen.3.dir net zenable joint.3.amp-enable-out => stepgen.3.enable
08:16 AM MarcelineVQ: sound slike in your code somewhere you have stepgen 3 position-scale instead of stepgen.3.position-scale
08:17 AM gloops: ahh no i typed the error message out didnt put the .s in
08:17 AM MarcelineVQ: that's a nono :>
08:17 AM gloops: thats what i have for stepgen.3. in the hal
08:18 AM archivist: but what line does it choke on then you know where to look
08:18 AM gloops: axis is not booting up, it starts then shuts down
08:19 AM gloops: at the end of the error message - 4629
08:21 AM archivist: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/common/Linux_FAQ.html#_bootup_messages
08:24 AM MarcelineVQ: gotta go but I'll mention, the things you need to have when it comes to asking computer questions are always: what all you've written, the complete error/log you get when trying what you've written, and what you expected to see
08:27 AM gloops: this appears to be giving the system boot record, its just when i try to run the axis config - that fails to boot, the error message is - stepgen3 not found - but i do have stepgen 3 in the hal
08:28 AM gloops: not quite sure what im looking to fix
08:34 AM gloops: so something is referring to stepgen3, and something else is not finding it
08:34 AM archivist: clear dmesg then try and the attempt will be there
08:35 AM archivist: it is a long result work backwards in the message
08:44 AM gloops: nothing i can see, will study it later
08:45 AM archivist: search it for your error
09:13 AM Jymmm: jthornton: pocket cannon .22cal $40 USD -- website : http://www.pyrocreations.com/cannons-and-mortars/22-cal-mini-pocket-cannon.html -- video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stBcrGzbhkM
09:14 AM alex_joni: hey Jymmm
09:20 AM makerman: Hi
09:21 AM makerman: friends I am about to build a CNC
09:21 AM makerman: And I am considering to use a spindle from china
09:21 AM makerman: anybody has reference to a china spindle
09:21 AM makerman: http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-2KW-Wassergekuhlte-Frasmotor-Spindel-Frasspindel-VFD-Frequenzumrichter/112292372850?hash=item1a2525a172:g:1SgAAOSwK7FWh9ky
09:21 AM makerman: like this one
09:23 AM makerman: hi
09:25 AM James628: makerman: I have similar (1.5kw) water cooled. works well, not so loud , from my experience quite OK.
09:26 AM jdh: mine is fine also. hoses are kinda flimsyw
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: The spindle in some ways is the easy part.
09:27 AM SpeedEvil: What do you hope to use it to cut, and how will you be supporting it.
09:27 AM jdh: but spindle only prob doesn't come with hose
09:27 AM makerman: do have a pic from frequenzy driver
09:28 AM James628: you can control it from linuxcnc too.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NF8EFoPlrk
09:29 AM makerman: nice
09:29 AM makerman: that is it
09:29 AM makerman: <3
09:29 AM James628: the VFD look identical to the one on the link you provided
09:30 AM makerman: it is about the frequenzy converter
09:30 AM makerman: frequenz umrichter
09:52 AM absynth is now known as dan2wik
10:00 AM lucidguy: Any isilon people in the house?
10:04 AM archivist: lucidguy, you are in the wrong place
10:05 AM archivist: this channel is about cnc
10:37 AM gloops: i wonder in the hal section that sets parport pins, whether the pins should appear in numerical order
10:39 AM archivist: not really but order does matter to make sure everything can be done in one cycle
10:40 AM JT-Shop: gloops: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html#_addf
10:47 AM gloops: thanks that might be helpful
10:47 AM gloops: < > must have space between last character
10:48 AM gloops: no wasnt that
10:50 AM gloops: i will have a good look at that though, just having 10 minutes here and there with it
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: gloo and does it run the system
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: hi makerman im in germany
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: hi tpra
12:18 PM tpra: hi IchGucksLive
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: bonsoir à la france
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: Je suis près de la frontière française
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: BITCH
12:20 PM tpra: hallo Deutschland :)
12:22 PM tpra: so my oxcnc is "mechanically ok" :) https://ibb.co/mV8fkm
12:23 PM tpra: tomorrow i'll start to wire the mesa and finally give a try to linuxcnc :)
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: mesa 7i76
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: tpra: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/schrank.jpg
12:25 PM tpra: yes 7i76e. not that easy to find informations about wiring it, but well, i'll see if don't burn everything
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: easy to wire
12:26 PM tpra: that's a nice case :)
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: tpra: that is nice http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/3achs_elek
12:27 PM tpra: at the time i have no idea how to do a few things. wiring the drivers shouldn't be a problem, but i'm unclear about how to wire field power and if i need to provide the logic 5V to the board or not
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: read the given info on mesanet
12:29 PM gloops: sbr 16 rails, Z axis, what footprint for the riser bearings - like how far apart for the bearing blocks?
12:30 PM gloops: im thinking 150mm is enough, would like less though
12:30 PM makerman: thx help
12:30 PM tpra: IchGucksLive, yes i'll rtfm :D ;)
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: tpra: the 5v is your chouce ther is 2A onboard at P3
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: but you woudt go to TB3 external
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: keep it sqare is best to go
12:34 PM gloops: you reckon 120mm is enough between bearings? im just trying to work out how much z lift ill get
12:35 PM gloops: have only got 300mm rails
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: then go for 120mm so you got nice 170 for movement
12:36 PM gloops: yeah think i will, can always change it later
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: calculate on spindle length plus 15mm for a PCB v bit
12:37 PM gloops: yes will leave some clearance for tool
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: otherwise you loose travel space
12:38 PM gloops: should get 400mm for comfort
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: chupacabra: welcome how is it in the upper usa Winter ahead im in germany
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: if you do not need it gloops go for 200mm table portal space
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: cbjamo: welcome how is it in the upper usa Winter ahead im in germany
12:39 PM Jymmm: Does anyone have any idea on how I can separate the "discs" (last image) from the main portion simply and with minimal damage? https://imgur.com/a/6bR6J
12:40 PM gregcnc: can you press the stack off the shaft?
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: Jymmm: is this aloy in the holes
12:42 PM gregcnc: they are still likely swaged together at the three crimps
12:42 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: they don't seem to be attched directly to the shaft, but to each other via the semi-puncture of the plates between each of the three holes
12:42 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: Yes, cast aluminum. I had already knocked off the "fins"
12:42 PM tpra: no damages to the disc ? or the shaft ? or both ?
12:43 PM Jymmm: tpra: The discs, dont care about te shaft other than to have a way to hold it in place while dismantaling
12:44 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: swagged, correct. Also the alloy too I think isn't helping anything
12:45 PM Jymmm: I have a propane torch if if would help, but not sure how.
12:45 PM tpra: i'd maybe just do a hole in a piece of wood a bit larger than the shaft, rest the disc on the piece of wood, then you can hammer the shaft out. maybe heat the discs with a heat gun also
12:45 PM cbjamo: IchGucksLive, It's not too bad here yet, starting to cool off. I prefer the cold though, so I may be slightly biased.
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: the disk does already took some hard hits
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: the large waterfront will give you a nice winter cbjamo
12:46 PM gregcnc: not sure how you'd deal with the crimps, but I'd probably mill the AL out if i wanted to do this
12:46 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: Yes, THAT one disc did, but it was so I could remove the aluminum fan fins.
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: a laserd disk that size will not ruine you
12:47 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: no mill, drill press, but that's a LOT of holes
12:47 PM gregcnc: what are you doing with the laminations?
12:47 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: art project. It's a cool "radiation" symbol
12:48 PM Jymmm: (I don't thik they had that in mind originally, but it's what I found when I took apart the motor)
12:48 PM gregcnc: so what will dissolve AL and not steel?
12:49 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: https://rlv.zcache.com/radiation_symbol_yellow_and_black_postcard-r76333adcfa7f467691411cc51ca637de_vgbaq_8byvr_324.jpg
12:49 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: heat?
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: gregcnc: 500degree C
12:49 PM miss0r: Sodium hydroxide
12:49 PM hazzy: HaOH?
12:50 PM Jymmm: miss0r: was that a joke?
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: this will laso take a steel part hazzy
12:50 PM miss0r: no
12:50 PM hazzy: no it will not
12:50 PM Jymmm: miss0r: in what soluton/ratio to water?
12:51 PM miss0r: Jymmm: I'll see if I can find my notes. (thats a long shot). I would set up a test if I were you
12:51 PM miss0r: it will react alot faster to the alu than the steel
12:51 PM Jymmm: miss0r: Eh, it be do or die, not really able to to do a pre-run test
12:52 PM hazzy: If there is AL present it should not attack the Fe at all
12:52 PM miss0r: make a batch, and throw in a block of aluminium and a block of steel, and look at the result? :)
12:52 PM Jymmm: hazzy: it's a cast aluminum fwiw
12:52 PM hazzy: Even better :)
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: Jymmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk2MGIQEQ7k
12:52 PM miss0r: (I didn't catch the start of this conversation, I just picked up on the desolving aluminium from steel part)
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: 50grams
12:53 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: I can't read german
12:54 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: "In dem Beh√§lter sind 50g Natriumhydroxyd gel√∂st und das Aluminium l√∂st sich recht schnell auf. Zur beschleunigung steht alles noch auf einer Kochplatte um w√§rme zuzuf√ľhren."
12:54 PM hazzy: 50 g of sodium hydroxide are dissolved in the container and the aluminum dissolves very quickly. For speeding everything is still on a hotplate to heat.
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: Sodium hydroxide 50gramm will desolf within 5min
12:54 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: hazzy in how much water?
12:55 PM miss0r: be carefull heating that solution!
12:55 PM hazzy: It does not say how much water
12:55 PM Jymmm: miss0r: I dont have a hotplate, so probably just use boiing water
12:55 PM hazzy: It will heat all by it self do to the reaction, easy to get a run away
12:56 PM gregcnc: uh adding lye to hot water is not good
12:56 PM Jymmm: hazzy: exotheric?
12:56 PM miss0r: thats way hot... Keep in mind, this reaction created heat of its own. and depending on the surface area of aluminium you could have it poil right out of the pot
12:56 PM hazzy: Yes, VERY
12:56 PM Jymmm: Ok, tap water it is =)
12:56 PM Jymmm: Ok, what container can I use safely?
12:56 PM hazzy: I have boiled 5 gal of strong NaOH by accident in a closed room , not fun
12:57 PM hazzy: Plastic
12:57 PM hazzy: or enamel
12:57 PM Jymmm: what KIND of plastic? PE? PP? PET? PVC? HDPE?
12:57 PM * JT-Shop cleaned the aluminum jammed in the slots of a collet with sodium hydroxide
12:57 PM hazzy: Any kind of plastic will be fine
12:58 PM miss0r: might I recommend using 40degrees C water. That is somewhat a good rule of thumbs. Also, Keep a neutralizer solution at hand, in case you spill
12:58 PM Jymmm: miss0r: baking soda?
12:58 PM miss0r: Jymmm: Just make sure the plastic can handle some heat, should you get a runaway reaction
12:58 PM Jymmm: miss0r: vinegar?
12:59 PM Jymmm: miss0r: define "runaway temperature" ?
12:59 PM Jymmm: most plastc soften/melt at 300F
12:59 PM hazzy: It will not get over about 250 F since it is mostly water
12:59 PM Jymmm: ^start to...
12:59 PM miss0r: runaway temperature ~ it starts poiling out of control
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: us in garage al CL is absrbed
01:00 PM Jymmm: hazzy: ok
01:00 PM Jymmm: miss0r: what nutrilzer? baking soda? Vinegar?
01:01 PM hazzy: Baking soda will be safer since it is a buffer, but you need a lot of it to do much
01:01 PM miss0r: basically you need an acid... so vinegar would do. hang on - browsing notes. BUT! This reaction creates alot of heat also - Not the way to go if it starts to boil, it is only for spills
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: Jymmm: as i read the 20% is best to go
01:02 PM miss0r: Yeah, i'd go with vinegar
01:02 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: 20% What?
01:03 PM gregcnc: and take video
01:03 PM Jymmm: miss0r: Ok, I na pick up an extra gallon of vinegar when I get the lye.
01:03 PM Jymmm: gregcnc: qwill do
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: 20gramm Sodium hydroxide on 80ml water
01:03 PM miss0r: I'll go back to the lathe and try to figure out why on earth I am unable to get a good surface finish with this thread here
01:03 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: thank you, miss0r: your notes confur with that ratio?
01:04 PM gregcnc: miss0r which inserts?
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: 40-60deg C will improve the prozess by 50%
01:05 PM miss0r: Jymmm: That will require alot more reading browsing. But it doesn't sound too bad. I might go a bit higher actualy. But.. No.. Stick with the 20%, that gives you a little more breathing room(not too fast reaction)
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: use a fishtank heater
01:05 PM Jymmm: miss0r: ok
01:06 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: That is true. it will be faster if you heat it up. But one needs to consider if excess heat can get away fast enough, should the reaction itself generate more than enticipated
01:06 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: I'm not in a hurry, if it's already going to be exotheric as it is, I'm okey with giving it an extra 20-40 minute soak time.
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: Jymmm: autoreaction as miss0r says will start at 80deg c
01:07 PM Jymmm: Is a P95 respirator good enough?
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: the fishtank heater has a light to see
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: its 5USD
01:07 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: I have one I cna use
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: the one we did the pcb bevor milling
01:08 PM miss0r: Jymmm: that combined with a facial sheild and good ventilation ;)
01:08 PM Jymmm: miss0r: outdoors and I have a full face shield
01:08 PM Jymmm: miss0r: and acid proof elbow high rubber gloves
01:09 PM miss0r: That combined with commen sense and you should be good
01:09 PM Jymmm: miss0r: Oh, NOW I'm fucked ;)
01:09 PM miss0r: gregcnc: https://www.rc-machines.com/en/accessories/acces-turning/turning-tool/filetage/thread-cutting-tools/threading-tool-insert-rcm6060-tin-60-mm
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:09 PM Jymmm: IchGucksLive: thanks
01:09 PM Jymmm: POOF!
01:09 PM miss0r: Jymmm: Hehe. nah, you're gonna be fine. Just be ready to jump in the shower with all your clothes on ;)
01:10 PM Jymmm: miss0r: you mean run arund naked pouring vinegar on me =)
01:10 PM Jymmm: outdooors
01:10 PM miss0r: I realy don.
01:10 PM miss0r: 't
01:11 PM Jymmm: miss0r: If all this doens't work, I'd only be sadden to have lost the discs.
01:11 PM Jymmm: nothing more.
01:12 PM miss0r: Yeah. But seriously, do not wash yourself with vinegar. Just run to the shower, and take your clothes off in there. While under the running water. And stay in there for a good 30 minuts
01:13 PM miss0r: "safety squintes, double rubber & mother on speed dial" AvE :)
01:13 PM Jymmm: lol
01:13 PM Jymmm: miss0r: as long as it doesn't "boil over" or explosed, I should be good.
01:13 PM miss0r: Don't let me put the scare into you. You are gonna be fine ;)
01:14 PM miss0r: Yeah. Try not to take too many deep breaths while having your hear over the pot either ;)
01:14 PM Jymmm: miss0r: Thus the respirator =)
01:15 PM Jymmm: it's only have mask, but that and the full face shiled should work
01:15 PM miss0r: yeah, I don't know the filter you are using. Chemical vapors are not something that every respirator can handle
01:15 PM Jymmm: miss0r: P95
01:15 PM Jymmm: miss0r: "resists oil based compounds, organic vapors "
01:15 PM miss0r: yeah, that won't work
01:16 PM Jymmm: miss0r: I know it works for bleach =)
01:17 PM miss0r: Hmm. I only know the Northern european standards for respirators. So don't take my word on it
01:17 PM Jymmm: miss0r: So, when the al is all disolved, do I just toss in some rendered animal fat and make shiny soap?
01:18 PM miss0r: Thats actualy something that is hard for the 'home gamer'. Regularly you would have some neutralizer agent to mix in(in known quanteties). But you are basically buying draincleaner. Go clean a drain
01:19 PM Jymmm: miss0r: haha, Fine..... <rolls eyes>
01:19 PM miss0r: and neutralize the remaining metal with vinegar, and wipe it doen with alc
01:20 PM miss0r: gregcnc: At the moment I'm even having issues with my HSS thread tool :-/
01:29 PM gloops: vibes miss0r?
01:29 PM miss0r: yeah. chatter marks
01:29 PM miss0r: looks like it anyway. doesn't sound like it
01:29 PM gloops: sounds like something loose
01:30 PM miss0r: I guess. But I gave the lathe a good once over. and I can't find anything
01:30 PM Jymmm: miss0r: He said 20g to 80mL of water. Is that 20g by weight or volume?
01:32 PM miss0r: Please read what you just wrote :)
01:32 PM hazzy: g is always mass not volume :P
01:32 PM roycroft: huh?
01:37 PM nallar is now known as Ross
01:39 PM Vitran: I was told that if the Hardinge I am working on isn't done within three weeks, the Hardinge Superslant I have been working on is getting thrown out.
01:39 PM Vitran: So, I am panicing and trying to get it running this week
01:42 PM roycroft: or rent a truck at the end of three weeks and park it next to your dumpster :)
01:42 PM rob_h: Vitran, superslant
01:42 PM Vitran: yep
01:42 PM Vitran: I am doing some testing now
01:43 PM Vitran: I am trying to turn on some of the relays, but I am getting no response from the 7i64
01:43 PM Vitran: I typed setp hm2_5i25.0.7i64.0.2.output-00 TRUE and did that for all the 7i64 outputs
01:44 PM Vitran: but I am measuring across all the outputs and getting 12VDC on all
01:44 PM rob_h: for the outs there are LEDs for them, do them come on to signal the output is on
01:44 PM pcw_mesa: are the output lights (yellow) on?
01:44 PM rob_h: i think so
01:44 PM Vitran: Yep
01:44 PM rob_h: pcw_mesa, would know for usre
01:44 PM Vitran: I have two green lights on the 7i64
01:45 PM rob_h: for the IO bus/sserial.. then there is LEDs to signal each IO bit next to the connectors
01:46 PM pcw_mesa: hard for the yellow light to be on and the MOSFET off
01:47 PM Vitran: I see the LEDs beside bars, but they are not on
01:47 PM Vitran: In HAL Configuration, they say they are on
01:48 PM pcw_mesa: what servo thread rate?
01:48 PM rob_h: maybe share your hal quickly ?
01:48 PM pcw_mesa: and what is the 7I64s watchdog timeout setting
01:49 PM Vitran: I'll get the file here in a sec
01:54 PM Vitran: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5RAI59w1dMZbzlPS3hxVFlCTHc?usp=sharing
01:55 PM Vitran: I did some checks, I do have the inputs from the 7i64 working
01:55 PM Vitran: I can see that on the HAL Configuration
02:00 PM Vitran: Wait, something which is important. I made a new LinuxCNC configuration just for testing. The point is to disable all of the Emergency Stop stuff and just disable the breaks and turn on the servos
02:01 PM Vitran: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5RAI59w1dMZY21zUF9Ma254R1U?usp=sharing
02:01 PM Vitran: This is the one I have been doing all testing up to this point on
02:12 PM Vitran: I am going off of what I can find and learn online here. I went into HAL Configuration and typed in the code above to turn on the pins. Was that the right thing to do?
02:14 PM pcw_mesa: That should work
02:14 PM pcw_mesa: (as long as they are not linked to signals in hal)
02:16 PM Vitran: I don't have anything connected in HAL in the NoSafetySetup
02:16 PM Vitran: except for the endstops and home
02:18 PM James628: Hi pcw, could you please help with 7i92? I am able to read hmid, flash firmware and within linuxcnc I can see the status of pins, but all outputs are high on 7i92 card itself
02:19 PM James628: When I change the LED on or off, I see it in hal monitor, but on the card the leds are always on...
02:21 PM miss0r: I should stop comming here in the shop... I failed at a simple thread cutting tool for the lathe :D
02:21 PM James628: btw, iptables issue on linux mint is solved in master as you supposed
02:22 PM Vitran: Here is what I am seeing on the 7i64 and on the HAL Configuration
02:22 PM Vitran: https://imgur.com/a/ziv1U
02:24 PM Vitran: Is there some turn on/turn off thing that I am missing? I turned the LinuxCNC on, then turned on the Machine Power buton
02:26 PM gloops: did the controls go from grey to black?
02:27 PM Vitran: Yep
02:27 PM pcw_mesa: what are the 7I64 jumper settings?
02:27 PM Vitran: Is there seperate power for the 7i64 for the output contactors?
02:29 PM Vitran: I have the board connected via the Serial Connector port
02:32 PM pcw_mesa: The 7I64 outputs are just switches (each with 2 pins) they have no power connections
02:38 PM pcw_mesa: James628: the 7I92 LEDs count RXpackets unless you tell them otherwise
02:39 PM pcw_mesa: Also to control a GPIO, you must set the pin to output mode ( if not specifically set, all I/O pins will be GPIO inputs that are pulled high )
02:41 PM James628: pcw: how to change the led function? You are right I think I forgot to set the pins for output
02:42 PM pcw_mesa: its pretty obscure but it is in the manual ( well encrypted )
02:43 PM James628: OK I will rtfm..:)
02:43 PM pcw_mesa: You can either set it in RAM (temporary) or the EEPROM (sticky)
02:45 PM James628: I don't really need those leds, just I thought it is an easy way to check the functionality of card...
02:45 PM hazzy-mobile: What do you know, power is out, again. Thinking about firing up the generator. It runs the mill OK once the spindle gets up to speed ...
02:53 PM Tom_L: stopped by the scrap and took inventory today
02:53 PM Tom_L: couldn't find any 10" C but they had 6 and lots of 2" tubing
02:53 PM Tom_L: might consider using 6 x 2 rectangle on the upright
02:54 PM Tom_L: instead of butting the 2" square
02:54 PM gloops: buying box section Tom?
02:54 PM Tom_L: looking
02:54 PM gloops: you in the UK?
02:54 PM Tom_L: U somehting but not K :)
02:54 PM gloops: ahh the other place
02:55 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_idea.jpg
02:55 PM Tom_L: threw that together last evening
02:55 PM Tom_L: just to get some ideas
02:56 PM gloops: look at this lot http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100Mm-Box-Section/322832520639?
02:56 PM Vitran: Any ideas on how or why my 7i64 is not outputing or how I can get it to turn on a specific output?
02:56 PM gloops: whats it going to be?
02:56 PM Tom_L: i was walking on a mountain of steel today
02:56 PM Tom_L: mill of sorts
02:57 PM gloops: i dont use it Vitran, cant help, sure someone will
02:57 PM Tom_L: Vitran can you see it in dmesg?
02:58 PM Tom_L: <- forgot what the 7i64 is
02:58 PM Vitran: This is what I see in Hal Configurator and on the board itself https://imgur.com/a/ziv1U
02:58 PM Vitran: Each output has an LED on it, but none of the LEDs are lighting up
02:59 PM Vitran: Though I do see inputs on the 7i64 working. Those work
02:59 PM Vitran: I get their lights to turn on and off in the Configurator
02:59 PM gloops: youre close, very close lol
03:01 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_idea1.jpg
03:01 PM Vitran: The only reason I have the 7i64 is because I need sinking outputs. I have it linked to a 7i77
03:01 PM Tom_L: gloops that's the other idea i was working on
03:01 PM Tom_L: 2" thickwall tube
03:02 PM gloops: is this for milling steel?
03:02 PM Tom_L: aluminum at least
03:02 PM Tom_L: maybe a little steel
03:02 PM Tom_L: it's to be a step up from my sherline
03:02 PM Tom_L: so anything would fit that bill
03:03 PM gregcnc: I thought about using channel like that. maybe a square for the column
03:03 PM Tom_L: same here
03:03 PM Tom_L: we were talking last night about it and figure the tube is alot stronger
03:04 PM gloops: go heavy, im not doing any maths or anything here tempted to thing 2 inch box is going to move
03:04 PM Tom_L: me either
03:04 PM Tom_L: just wingin it
03:04 PM gloops: but tempted to think
03:04 PM Tom_L: i'll brace it from behind
03:04 PM Tom_L: i think it'll be fine
03:05 PM gloops: surprising you know how it bends
03:05 PM Tom_L: it's .179 wall
03:05 PM Tom_L: inch
03:05 PM Tom_L: but yeah anything will bend
03:06 PM Tom_L: gloops, what are you making?
03:07 PM Tom_L: using the channel give a good place for the motors too, i'll have to figure that out on the tubing
03:09 PM gloops: Tom only building a router table
03:10 PM gloops: one im using has two 2.5 inch tubes for Y axis, like scaffolders poles - bends like rubber with a router cutter
03:11 PM gloops: router cutting
03:11 PM gloops: at 18 inch length a single 2 inch box with 50lbs weight on it bends - 0.005872141592920354
03:12 PM gloops: but 50lbs is deceiving, you have to consider leverage as well
03:13 PM Tom_L: how thick are the tubes?
03:14 PM gloops: 4mm without measuring
03:14 PM gloops: not got a vid but if i press on the bottom of the z axis you can see the tubes bending
03:16 PM gloops: round is more bendy than square though
03:16 PM Tom_L: if you double the square up like i did on that column, you get a double thick rib to help too
03:17 PM gloops: well one thing with steel, you can just keep welding more on if it does bend - so long as it can fit
03:20 PM Tom_L: how big is your table?
03:22 PM gloops: the y span is 800mm
03:22 PM Tom_L: mine's not gonna be that big
03:23 PM Tom_L: maybe 4-500
03:23 PM Tom_L: what size steppers are you using?
03:24 PM gloops: 425 oz
03:24 PM Vitran: pcw, on the 7i64, I have 12VDC from the relays that I need to connect to ground. The pins have OBIT+ and OBIT-. If the contactor is wired in reverse, what happens?
03:24 PM Tom_L: plenty of power for it?
03:24 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Ship-4pcs-High-Torque-Nema23-Stepper-Motor-425oz-in-2-8N-m-4-Lead-DIY-CNC-Kit/263268354293?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
03:25 PM Tom_L: i was looking at those
03:25 PM gloops: its is pretty high geared - very fast but not much cutting power - gantry must weight 40lbs - more and one motor throws it about fast
03:25 PM miss0r: I am having some trange 'chatter marks' showing up when I thread on the lathe: http://picpaste.com/20171025_215116-j4BW5gap.jpg The picture is of a M20x2,5. Do you guys have any idea what I can do about this?
03:25 PM Tom_L: what gear ratio?
03:25 PM Tom_L: i thought about gearing mine down some
03:26 PM gloops: lol, awkward to explain but it equates to 50mm pitch - 50mm per rotation
03:26 PM gloops: its chain drive
03:26 PM Tom_L: ahh
03:26 PM Tom_L: i'll probably use belt
03:27 PM gloops: for milling? not using screws?
03:27 PM Tom_L: yeah i'm gonna use screws
03:27 PM Tom_L: but was thinking about gearing it down maybe. never used ballscrews so i dunno what to expect
03:27 PM gloops: ahh right, belt driving the screws
03:28 PM Tom_L: the sherline is direct drive but it's 20tpi too
03:28 PM Tom_L: the screws are 5mm
03:28 PM Tom_L: not sure what the equates to tpi
03:29 PM pcw_mesa: Vitran: if you wire the outputs in reverse they will be stuck on
03:30 PM Tom_L: that's roughly a little less than 5tpi isn't it?
03:30 PM gloops: ok for ally - not sure about steel, seem to think steppers are lower torque at low speeds
03:30 PM Vitran: pcw: What other avenues can I look to see why the outputs are not turning on?
03:32 PM Vitran: pcw: I turned the watchdog timer off and set the baud rate to 2.5 MBaud
03:33 PM Vitran: and set the SPI mode to off
03:33 PM gloops: got some 16mm screws here 5mm pitch - little under 5 tpi looking at them
03:33 PM pcw_mesa: I would not run it with the watchdog disabled (not the issue here but a safety issue)
03:35 PM pcw_mesa: I did test the outputs when you returned the card but maybe something else has failed due to the power accident it endured
03:36 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-with-DRO/152758231304? another for archivist, dont think it will be that price in 6 days though heh
04:15 PM Simonious: open source structural analysis packages?
04:18 PM Tom_L: http://frame3dd.sourceforge.net/
04:20 PM roycroft: so i decided to go back and read some of the various forum posts regarding cutting dovetails in baltic birch plywood using a dovetail jig
04:20 PM roycroft: most of it was the usually annoying "don't do that" crap
04:20 PM Roguish: Simonious: http://caelinux.com/CMS/index.php
04:21 PM roycroft: but i did see two completely different posts on two different forums that suggested that using hardboard, plywood, or even soft lumber does not work well for backing boards
04:21 PM roycroft: and that using a medium hard solid hardwood at least 3/8" thick is necessary to really prevent tearout
04:22 PM Simonious: Roguish: used it?
04:22 PM Roguish: no
04:22 PM gloops: not using cnc router roycroft?
04:22 PM Simonious: Tom_L: used it?
04:22 PM roycroft: no
04:23 PM Tom_L: no
04:23 PM roycroft: i'm using my leigh d4 dovetail jig
04:23 PM gloops: trying to remember how i did them many years ago
04:23 PM roycroft: i have a bunch of poplar, but that might be a little on the soft side
04:24 PM roycroft: maybe i have some hard maple
04:24 PM roycroft: that would be perfect
04:24 PM Deejay: gn8
04:24 PM roycroft: i'm using brand new router bits
04:24 PM roycroft: carbide though
04:24 PM roycroft: hss would probably be better
04:24 PM gloops: you can..if youre using a standard depth of board, and once you get the measurements in your head, flip the board and do a starter cut on one side
04:24 PM roycroft: i'm using a dovetail jig
04:24 PM roycroft: i can't really do any flipping around and the like
04:25 PM gloops: then back over and go through, i think i had some shims in the jig - like wooden strips for packs to do this
04:25 PM roycroft: i clamp the piece in the jig and cut all the tails or pins in one operation
04:25 PM roycroft: but if i use a backer board on each side that will help a lot
04:25 PM gloops: yeah thats what i used, it wasnt a leigh though so i dont know
04:25 PM roycroft: and i'm climb cutting
04:25 PM roycroft: i'm getting no tearout in the back, but i had a backer board there already
04:26 PM roycroft: i got a spiral upcut bit for the pins, and i'm getting less tearout than when i was using a straight bit
04:26 PM roycroft: but i still get some
04:26 PM roycroft: some folks also use ca glue before cutting the pins
04:26 PM roycroft: but i don't think i want to mess with that
04:27 PM roycroft: not only is it potentially messy, expensive, and adds time to the job, it makes it harder to stain/finish the wood after
04:31 PM gloops: pain in the neck if youre doing a chest of 6 drawers lol
04:32 PM gloops: it is a similar jig i think, cutting the pins vertical, but i used a dovetail cutter,. not straight
04:34 PM roycroft: actually, the backing board should be able to be reused for all the identically cut tails/pins
04:35 PM roycroft: so it's no big deal to do that in production, other than making the sandwich each time
04:35 PM roycroft: but the ca glue thing, or epoxy, or whatever, would be a royal pain in the btt
04:35 PM roycroft: butt
05:09 PM gloops: might make my own bearings for z, unsupported 20mm bar, plain bearings
05:09 PM gloops: that wont bend
05:12 PM archivist: gloops, a bridgeport only made 280 a week or so ago
05:13 PM gloops: think i might have seen that one archivist, but why? the yanks are paying 10 times that
05:13 PM gloops: got to be worth buying just to hold
05:13 PM archivist: was not a well done auction item, wrong first image etc
05:14 PM gloops: can sometimes drop on with badly worded searches
05:16 PM roycroft: i think used bridgeports go for ONE MILLION DOLLARS here in oregon
05:16 PM roycroft: because, well, they're "industrial"
05:16 PM roycroft: and we're far away from the rust belt
05:19 PM gloops: ive got an axminister mill on watch list - going abour £200, they bid on those like mad, but not on cast iron machines - cant work them out
05:19 PM gloops: axminister is chinese they bend
05:35 PM gloops: UK pennies are bronze, they would make good bearings
05:36 PM MarcelineVQ: expensive pennies
05:38 PM gloops: brass bar is like gold bullion these days
05:40 PM SpeedEvil: damn near cheaper to buy a furnace, clean up some scrap, and stir
05:41 PM gloops: yes, and even cheaper with a few bricks and a propane torch
05:41 PM SpeedEvil: quite
06:07 PM skunkworks_: wish me luck reeming 70 1/8" holes in steel
06:14 PM Jymmm: skunkworks_: buns of steel? <tee hee hee>
06:14 PM Jymmm: skunkworks_: Just don't forget the lub... err coolant ;)
06:16 PM skunkworks_: :)
06:19 PM Jymmm: Can someone suggest a uC or something "like" pi with a sata port?
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: how paranoid is a company that even after having an NDA in place doesn't want to send you the user manuals and data sheets?
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: it's like pulling teeth to get info
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: the orange or banana pi
06:26 PM CaptHindsight: oops not those they left SATA off , it's another allwinner board
06:27 PM CaptHindsight: Cubie boards had SATA
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: http://linux-sunxi.org/Table_of_Allwinner_based_boards
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: several have SATA
06:31 PM Roguish: roycroft: come on down to SF. Bridgeports aren
06:31 PM Roguish: aren't quite a million yet.
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: long drive
07:10 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: thanks, is there non-pi version that you know of?
07:30 PM roycroft: well, folks, i'm going to call it a success
07:30 PM roycroft: i used masonite for the "front" backing board, and tearout is gone
07:32 PM roycroft: pictures forthcoming presently
07:33 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight they just don't want you to buy their stuff
07:43 PM pfred1: roycroft masonite is a proprietary eponym for hard board
07:44 PM pfred1: there's places where asking for masonite will draw blank stares
07:45 PM roycroft: yes
07:45 PM roycroft: but it's a pretty generic name, like "kleenex" or "zipper"
07:45 PM pfred1: right
07:45 PM pfred1: I like smooth and oiled both sides
07:46 PM roycroft: and it's an homage to the man who invented the process - william h mason
07:47 PM Tom_L: he was truly a mason
07:48 PM pfred1: I went into a home depot once and asked for it and the guy didn't know what i was talkign about I finally had to ask for peg board without the holes in it
07:48 PM pfred1: then the light came on with the doofus I was dealing with
07:50 PM roycroft: http://www.roycroft.us/Dovetails
07:50 PM roycroft: there you go
07:50 PM roycroft: photographic evidence that it can be done :)
07:51 PM roycroft: one bit of tearout on the back of the pins
07:51 PM pfred1: looks good
07:51 PM roycroft: and i can avoid that
07:52 PM pfred1: when yo usand it down it should be OK
07:52 PM roycroft: yes, and it's on the inside, so it won't show
07:52 PM roycroft: so many people poo-poo dovetailing plywood
07:53 PM roycroft: but it makes for a really strong joint, and i like the look of it
07:53 PM roycroft: especially since it's void-free plywood
07:53 PM pfred1: I've cur box joints in plywood
07:53 PM roycroft: box joints in plywood is as problematic as dovetails in plywood if you're using a router
07:53 PM roycroft: but they're really easy to cut on a table saw
07:53 PM pfred1: yeah i use a table saw
07:54 PM roycroft: this particular project is a wee bit tricky, and it would be difficult to do a table saw
07:54 PM roycroft: i'm making bottle cases
07:54 PM roycroft: and they will have a bottom and a lid
07:54 PM roycroft: i'm making them as a single cube
07:54 PM pfred1: I never cut dovetails on a table saw
07:54 PM roycroft: then i'll cut the lid off later
07:54 PM pfred1: I've cut dovetails by hand
07:55 PM pfred1: http://i.imgur.com/lFigqcm.jpg
07:55 PM roycroft: so i had to make the dovetail that gets sliced in half to cut the lid off 0.090" wider than its mate on the other end, to preserve symmetry
07:55 PM roycroft: back in another lifetime i cut many many dovetails by hand
07:55 PM roycroft: but never in plywood
07:55 PM pfred1: I never did that many
07:56 PM pfred1: a lot of folks can't tell the difference between box joints and dovetails
07:56 PM pfred1: they just don't know
07:56 PM roycroft: i'm making bottle cases for my beer and wine bottles
07:56 PM roycroft: but i haven't found any for sale that i like
07:56 PM roycroft: i've talked to a bunch of homebrewers that i know and there is definite interest in good bottle cases
07:57 PM roycroft: so i'm designing this as something i can do in production runs
07:57 PM roycroft: i wish i had a good finishing room - that's the biggest problem with my lack of shop space
07:57 PM roycroft: a small, but dedicated paint booth would be awesome
07:58 PM pfred1: it sure would
07:58 PM pfred1: I ran out of space in my garage a long time ago
07:58 PM roycroft: i'd like one big enough for a car, but even half that size would be great
07:58 PM roycroft: yes, my garage is pretty crowded
07:58 PM roycroft: which is why all my "stationary" machinery is on wheels
07:58 PM roycroft: except my lathe and my mini-mill
07:59 PM pfred1: there's nowhere to roll anything today
07:59 PM * roycroft just put a nice blue point tool cart up for sale on cl for that very reason
08:00 PM roycroft: i like the cart, but i don't use it often enough to justify the space it takes up
08:00 PM pfred1: I hear that
08:00 PM roycroft: getting rid of it will make it easier to roll other things around :)
08:00 PM pfred1: I want to put a little loft up by the ceiling
08:00 PM pfred1: I been thinking about it
08:00 PM roycroft: i already have overhead storage
08:01 PM roycroft: i make pretty good use of all available wall space in my shop buildings
08:01 PM pfred1: yeah I have no wall space left for shelves
08:01 PM roycroft: anyway, i can make do with what i have
08:01 PM roycroft: when it comes time for spray painting it's *huge* hassle though
08:02 PM pfred1: I did just recently add another drawer to my desk
08:02 PM pfred1: prime real estate
08:02 PM roycroft: i basically spend almost a whole day moving stuff around and setting up the temporary paint booth
08:02 PM roycroft: then i do the painting
08:02 PM roycroft: then i spend almost another whole day taking it down and putting everything back where it belongs
08:02 PM roycroft: it's hard to make money doing that
08:03 PM pfred1: at my old place to paint a car I put up a tent http://i.imgur.com/9v3PD.jpg
08:04 PM pfred1: I had a propane block heater in there and i could get it tropical in the dead of winter
08:04 PM pfred1: the whole thing would blow up like a balloon
08:05 PM pfred1: I had this other tent setup on a pulley in a tree I could set it up real fast
08:06 PM roycroft: i made a temporary paint booth out of a portable garage once when i was painting the interior of a vw bus
08:07 PM * roycroft would like a dedicated finishing room
08:07 PM roycroft: i know i said that earlier, but it's worth repeating :)
08:08 PM pfred1: I've actually gotten pretty good at painting with a brush
08:08 PM pfred1: glass smooth finish
08:09 PM roycroft: i want to pre-finish the interiors of these bottle cases before assembly
08:09 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm envious, painted the kitchen here and the finish looks worse than when I started
08:09 PM roycroft: shooting a couple coats of lacquer on the would be great
08:09 PM pfred1: yeah the trick is wet sanding and thinning later coats
08:09 PM roycroft: and would be really fast if i had a paint booth
08:09 PM roycroft: prep is almost *everything* when painting
08:09 PM pfred1: plus you need a really good brush
08:09 PM roycroft: and the right good brush
08:10 PM pfred1: yeah if you don't have a decent brush and take care fo it you're sunk before you start
08:10 PM roycroft: if the brush costs less than $25 it's probably not a good brush
08:11 PM * roycroft has paint brushes that are 25 years old and are still in great shape
08:11 PM roycroft: invest in good brushes once, and not crappy ones many times
08:11 PM pfred1: yeah if you clean a brush right they get better with age
08:11 PM roycroft: that said, i use chip brushes for simple quick jobs and throw them away all the time
08:11 PM roycroft: and foam brushes
08:11 PM roycroft: it all depends on the application
08:11 PM roycroft: no pun intended
08:12 PM pfred1: I just got a new chip brush for my mill I was due
08:12 PM * roycroft decides to head back out to the shop and finish making the prototype bottle case
08:13 PM roycroft: well, finish cutting out the parts and doing a dry fit
08:13 PM roycroft: it will be the weekend before i have one that is actually "finished", since i need to varnish it
08:13 PM roycroft: or whatever i use - maybe polyurethane
08:14 PM roycroft: or rattle can spray lacquer, if i feel like splurging
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: what da yah means by "non pi"? Dat list I sentyahs has boards that have no pi in der naymes.
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: dunno if any of dems have a pi pinout if dats whatchas means
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: Masonite is a type of hardboard made of steam-cooked and pressure-molded wood fibres
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: also known as Quartrboard, Isorel, hernit, karlit, torex or treetex.
08:37 PM pfred1: if you're selling stuff rub on is the way to go
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: aka pegboard without holes
08:45 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, after a wander thru the scrap yard i think i'll probably use the square tube
08:45 PM Tom_L: may find a piece of rectangle for the upright
08:46 PM Tom_L: now to figure out where to mount the motors
09:02 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: ok so low low budget
09:03 PM Tom_L: as usual
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: how about the Z mount ? Ground angle or?
09:03 PM Tom_L: not sure yet
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: weld in place?
09:04 PM Tom_L: i think it should have adjustment
09:04 PM Tom_L: of some sort
09:04 PM CaptHindsight: bolt at the bottom, angles on the sides
09:05 PM Tom_L: just sat down to work on it a bit
09:06 PM Tom_L: still figuring where to put the Y motor
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: or a gusset http://www.plansandprojects.com/images/Machined%20Gantry%20Gusset%20Rendering.JPG
09:08 PM Tom_L: i was gonna brace the back with something like that anyway
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: what is the XY travel?
09:08 PM Tom_L: dunno yet
09:09 PM Tom_L: the screws i'm looking at are 400 700 and 1000mm
09:09 PM Tom_L: but the x y may be smaller
09:10 PM Tom_L: the one i'm working with in the model is 500 in Y
09:11 PM Tom_L: which will be that minus the blocks in travel i suppose
09:12 PM Tom_L: once i get a little closer i'll check stuff like that
09:13 PM Tom_L: do a clash analysis
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: whats Jymmm building with SATA?
09:13 PM Tom_L: if i can remember how.. it's been a while
09:13 PM Tom_L: hard to tell
09:14 PM Tom_L: he was trying to set his yard on fire earlier
09:14 PM CaptHindsight: hehe
09:14 PM Tom_L: i didn't read it all just the highlites
09:22 PM Tom_L: wish i could find a 'kit' like that with a little shorter X Y rails
09:24 PM Tom_L: i see some longer..
09:25 PM Tom_L: and with round rails
09:31 PM MarcelineVQ: there's aluminum rails with ceramic coating available here for not unreasonable pricing e.g. https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/48702302
09:31 PM MarcelineVQ: not as cheap as some tubing and skateboard wheels though <_<
09:31 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBR16-400-450-500mm-linear-rail-set-3-ballscrew-RM1605-BK-BF12-end-bearing-CNC/161303355218?hash=item258e6ddf52:g:mb8AAMXQeW5TcDoE
09:32 PM Tom_L: that's about right but i want the square rails
09:33 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight do you have experience with both types of rails?
09:33 PM MarcelineVQ: 19 inch rails hmm
09:33 PM Tom_L: just seems to me the square would give more support
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: I use thicker rails on less precision mechanisms
09:49 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Was thinking about making an auto music CD ripper
09:49 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, i was wondering about round vs square rail
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: USB drive vs SATA is another option
09:50 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: True, I guess I didn't comsider that as I was trying to make it all inclusive.
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: are there low cost square linear rail/bearings?
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: cam bearings on a ground square bar or?
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: I prefer used profile or square bearings over Chinaco round supported
09:54 PM Tom_L: those ones in the link ^^
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: I use them for drawer slides and mechanisms that slide only for access or service. Not part of the machine operation.
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: just too crappy
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: at least the ones that show up here
09:59 PM CaptHindsight: maybe you'll find good ones
10:00 PM Tom_L: i'm sure they're all pretty much the same from chinaco
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: any chance you can find some ground square stock for a bargain?
10:01 PM Tom_L: doubtful
10:01 PM Tom_L: not local anyway
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: the price for that rail and screw package is low
10:07 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-CNC-Square-Linear-guide-3Ballscrew-1605-400-700-1000-Kit-BK-BF-3-Couplings/302446423241?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D8fe5863fc0534ea1afacafcbff82d099%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D322519347662&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507
10:07 PM Tom_L: that's the one i was initially looking at
10:07 PM Tom_L: apparently Ich uses them
10:07 PM Tom_L: but i'd like to find a set with shorter rails
10:08 PM Tom_L: don't really wanna have to cut the screws down
10:08 PM roycroft: grr
10:08 PM MarcelineVQ: yarr
10:08 PM roycroft: i have a plasma cutter listed on cl for $600, and some guy wants to buy it for $425
10:08 PM Tom_L: and i think they'd be too long for what i'm doing
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://kfupload.alibaba.com/kf-down/HTB1hoA_SFXXXXXSXXXXq6xXFXXXb.jpg
10:08 PM roycroft: i told him he has to come a *lot* closer to my asking price for me to consider it, and he's whining about how he has to make a 3 hour drive to get it
10:09 PM roycroft: how is that my problem?
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: he should have moved closer to you
10:09 PM Tom_L: tell him you'll move it closer to the door if that will help
10:09 PM roycroft: or something
10:09 PM roycroft: he's coming from the south
10:09 PM roycroft: i work an hour south of my house 3 days/week
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: you'll be glad to meet him at the curb
10:09 PM Tom_L: cap, that you?
10:10 PM roycroft: i told him i'd bring it to work with me and save him an hour
10:10 PM roycroft: pretty generous of me, eh?
10:10 PM MarcelineVQ: yes
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: by far
10:11 PM roycroft: the problem is, i'm not desperate for cash, and it doesn't take up a lot of space, so i have no compelling reason to get rid of it right now
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: I've driven farther to pick up machines and equipment
10:11 PM roycroft: which is also not my problem :)
10:11 PM MarcelineVQ: best to advertise for 30% more than you want to sell at so when people come to dick around you can just say "sold"
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: or just say $600 firm
10:11 PM roycroft: i listed it for $600, and expect to get $550 for it
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: low ballers will be ridiculed
10:11 PM roycroft: it has less than 10 minutes use
10:11 PM Tom_L: reply back for $650
10:12 PM roycroft: and i have $800 + shipping into it
10:12 PM roycroft: if he lowballs me again i am going to raise the price :)
10:12 PM Tom_L: ^^
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: yeah don't put up with it
10:12 PM Tom_L: he either want's it or he doesn't
10:12 PM MarcelineVQ: what's really going to get your goat is when he shows up after you've brought it to him and says, 'I only have x amount'
10:13 PM roycroft: i don't like to dicker too much
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: if he needs it to save children trapped in a steel vault thats another story
10:13 PM MarcelineVQ: that's a pretty common tactic, I'm not sure why, who does that even work on
10:13 PM roycroft: it woudl not get my goat at all
10:13 PM roycroft: i have to drive to work anyway
10:13 PM MarcelineVQ: My goat would be got, loading a unit twice for a no-buy
10:13 PM roycroft: if he doesn't have the cash i'll just say "too bad you drove all that way for nothing"
10:13 PM roycroft: it's a fripping plasma cutter
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: yes, don't reward bad behavior
10:13 PM MarcelineVQ: My goats will have absconded in fact
10:13 PM roycroft: it weighs about 25kg
10:14 PM roycroft: i can toss it in my trunk in the morning
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: shheeesh, mine is like 250lbs
10:14 PM roycroft: i'd actually find it funny if the guy tried something like that
10:14 PM roycroft: it's an inverter unit
10:14 PM roycroft: but it has german igbts
10:14 PM roycroft: not those crappy asian ones
10:15 PM * evilroot just shipped a 500lb Cartesian robot
10:15 PM * roycroft has walked away from deals many times in the past, and would have no problem doing so again
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: what is that guy doing with the rods in that pic? ^^
10:15 PM evilroot: Selling stuff is a pain
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://kfupload.alibaba.com/kf-down/HTB1hoA_SFXXXXXSXXXXq6xXFXXXb.jpg
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: straightening?
10:16 PM MarcelineVQ: big hydraulic ram? straightening prob
10:16 PM roycroft: i'm a fairly patient person, generally
10:16 PM roycroft: but i do not suffer fools and scammers well
10:16 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight that's not a comparitor
10:16 PM roycroft: and especially not foolish scammers
10:16 PM Tom_L: i bet he's trying to straighten em
10:16 PM evilroot: Today I had a guy I sold a bot to freak out when I didn't answer calls or texts
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: he has a dial indicator on them
10:16 PM evilroot: Because cell doesn't work in my office
10:17 PM Tom_L: are you asking or telling me?
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: asking
10:17 PM Tom_L: he's trying to straighten them
10:17 PM evilroot: So he fricking looked up my PARENTS and called them
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: it's a pic from the link you sent
10:17 PM Tom_L: they're rolled threads
10:17 PM evilroot: That's nuts, right?
10:17 PM roycroft: that's crossing way over a line, evilroot
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: not exactly reassuring
10:17 PM MarcelineVQ: evilroot: fairly
10:17 PM Tom_L: stranger things have been done
10:17 PM evilroot: "Its been a week, where is my bot!?"
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: sounds like a real nut
10:17 PM evilroot: Dude, its fricking FREIGHT
10:17 PM Tom_L: there's bound to be some flex when they roll the threads
10:18 PM evilroot: Takes up to 10 days
10:18 PM * evilroot grumbles
10:18 PM Tom_L: just milling a plate will warp it
10:18 PM MarcelineVQ: Tom_L: china can't afford thread followers? :>
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: selling to hobbyists is often the worst
10:18 PM Tom_L: they haven't heard of them yet
10:18 PM roycroft: yes
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: most demanding and cheap
10:18 PM roycroft: hobbyists are very often impulse buyers
10:19 PM roycroft: right
10:19 PM roycroft: very demanding
10:19 PM Tom_L: i'd rather be than than someone with a grant
10:19 PM evilroot: Oh yeah, speaking of selling stuff
10:19 PM roycroft: they want everything *NOW*
10:19 PM Tom_L: that just wastes it
10:19 PM evilroot: Anybody need a REALLY beefy spindle controller?
10:19 PM roycroft: and then they want infinite hand holding
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: I just tell them I'm willing to ship as fast they are willing to pay for
10:20 PM Tom_L: evilroot, not I.. my bud just replaced his in his tree
10:20 PM roycroft: sure
10:20 PM evilroot: As in 3-phase AC 27A 5500W
10:20 PM roycroft: but even if they wanted to pay to put that bridgeport mill on a plane, it takes a few hours to fly cross-country
10:20 PM roycroft: and it has to be palletized and arrangements to truck it to the airport made
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: I've had people complain about a few $ over shipping, internationally
10:21 PM roycroft: a pallet costs money
10:21 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-NEMA23-570OZ-IN-5A-3-8-DUAL-SHAFT-STEPPER-MOTOR/253223632606?hash=item3af54dfede:g:h0AAAOSw8GtZPKzH
10:21 PM roycroft: dunnage costs money
10:21 PM roycroft: crates cost money
10:21 PM roycroft: strapping costs money
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: often they have some forwarder/consolidator
10:22 PM Tom_L: those should be plenty big enough for that mill i'd think
10:22 PM roycroft: calling a freight company and arranging for pickup costs money
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: I get the once a month crate rate
10:22 PM roycroft: loading it for the shipper costs money
10:22 PM roycroft: listening to the customer whine costs money
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: and when you go out of your way for them they rarely appreciate it
10:23 PM MarcelineVQ: Tom_L: depends what you're cutting, for the rail lengths you have those really should be plenty for most things
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: yeah big torque
10:23 PM MarcelineVQ: Mine's gona be bigger and use smaller motors by comparison
10:23 PM evilroot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5fQTi1W868ON2hBOFVTMGR0dWc/view?usp=sharing
10:23 PM MarcelineVQ: Mind you we won't know if that's a good idea until I make it
10:23 PM evilroot: Up to 7.5HP
10:24 PM Tom_L: evilroot, that's about the same size my bud's was
10:24 PM evilroot: Puts those Chinese VFDs to shame, heh
10:24 PM Tom_L: ~18" square iirc
10:24 PM Tom_L: maybe a bit bigger
10:24 PM evilroot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5fQTi1W868OckJPeDN5TFNudzA/view?usp=sharing
10:24 PM evilroot: Came off a huge Gerber router
10:25 PM Tom_L: that's not the router with all the tool changers is it?
10:25 PM evilroot: Naw, its a wood router I rebuilt for a company
10:26 PM Tom_L: can't remember who that was now
10:26 PM evilroot: They wanted a smaller, quieter spindle
10:26 PM evilroot: And modern controls
10:26 PM MarcelineVQ: you can cut awfully deep wood with 7.5hp
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: 20mm rail for this oven drawer https://imagebin.ca/v/3f4HMQzkYKME
10:27 PM MarcelineVQ: that an alu extrusion body? are those fairly rigid in general?
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: 2" t-slot
10:29 PM evilroot: MarcelineVQ: damned right, heh
10:29 PM evilroot: I figured $250 would be a good price
10:29 PM MarcelineVQ: that price makes me wish I had 3ph, well that an an application that would ever need more than 3hp
10:30 PM MarcelineVQ: I wonder how many people get tripped up by 3ph and 3hp in the same product description
10:34 PM enleth: ok, so I've got a shot servo drive output in the robot's control box
10:35 PM enleth: *or* the current measurement stage, hard to tell without poking it with a scope under power
10:38 PM enleth: in their infinite wisdom, KUKA designed the KRC1 control with a monolithic servo drive module, all 6 axes un a single box
10:38 PM enleth: *in
10:40 PM evilroot: Brilliant
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: so any axis dying kills the whole thing
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: $$ for Kuka
10:41 PM evilroot: Tom_L: How much did his run?
10:42 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: well you can only do so much with a limited budget
10:42 PM CaptHindsight: if you have time you can wait for deals
10:43 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:44 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight the spindle drive?
10:44 PM Tom_L: iirc it was ~1400. exchange
10:48 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: yep. and the current measurement stage and mosfet drive logic are a single huge PCB
10:49 PM enleth: the gate drive isolators are the only swappable parts
10:49 PM enleth: well, and the fetpacks
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: does it use resolvers or encoders?
10:50 PM enleth: resolvers, but that's irrelevant, completely separate part of the machine
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: just wondering
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: I've had to modify robots to get position info right from the encoders or resolvers
10:52 PM enleth: KUKA uses a DSP card local to the robot to handle resolvers
10:53 PM enleth: https://robot-store.co.uk/product/krc1-rdw-board
10:53 PM enleth: it's got its own flash storage to maintain axis position across poweroffs
10:54 PM enleth: and some basic configuration
10:55 PM enleth: so technically you can plug any KRC box to any KUKA arm and as long as the drives are powerful enough and the software new enough to know the kinematics of a given model, it will work
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-used-KUKA-KRC1-MAINBOARD-00-104-420-with-processor-100-guarnteed-working/322631959904 it uses a PC, look no *duino :)
10:55 PM enleth: it will just download the arm's config from RDW
10:56 PM enleth: yep, Win98 on VxWorks
10:56 PM enleth: er
10:56 PM enleth: Win95
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: wow VxWorks
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: haven't thought about that in a while
10:57 PM enleth: technically windows is just the GUI here
10:57 PM enleth: VxWorks handles position loops
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: somebody did make RT patches for winders back around 2000
10:57 PM enleth: no
10:58 PM enleth: the Windows itself is not RT
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: not with Kuka
10:58 PM enleth: it's a VxW process
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, I understand
10:59 PM enleth: at some point during boot, Windows kernel loads a VxWorks "driver" that actually preempts the kernel, boots VxWorks and unfreezes Windows as a process
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxWorks#Industrial
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: zzzz time, adios
11:11 PM Chillum is now known as HighInBC