#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 17 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:37 AM L29Ah: am i out of luck if i consider using gpio via the usual linux kernel interface in sysfs for rt stuff like stepper control?
01:27 AM L29Ah: okay, the trivial implementation seems to succeed at driving the stepper at 25µs sleep intervals
01:27 AM L29Ah: strange i don't see it in linuxcnc hal
01:27 AM L29Ah: everyone seems to use cryptic mmio
01:33 AM CaptHindsight: L29Ah: over what port/device?
01:33 AM L29Ah: huh?
01:34 AM L29Ah: gpio on a random arm soc
01:34 AM L29Ah: allwinner a20
01:34 AM L29Ah: in my case
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: my next question was going to be what cpu architecture
01:36 AM Deejay: moin
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: does it respond fast enough?
01:37 AM L29Ah: how do i tell? (:
01:38 AM L29Ah: it doesn't skip steps until i make it perform some io heavy stuff in parallel telling by the sound
01:38 AM CaptHindsight: time for a scope
01:39 AM L29Ah: yeah
01:39 AM CaptHindsight: A20 with an FPGA works (over SPI) but no GPU accell
01:40 AM CaptHindsight: we tried another allwinner with 6 or 8 cores and video rendered fast enough to run LCNC and playback HD video
01:40 AM CaptHindsight: I think we gamed while running LCNC
01:40 AM L29Ah: i'll be trying to use gui on a separate computer
01:41 AM L29Ah: X over ssh should be kinda usable in worst case
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: forget the part #
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: then you might as well use that TI thingy with the PRU's
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: the BBB has it
01:42 AM L29Ah: 09:08:13]<CaptHindsight> A20 with an FPGA works (over SPI) but no GPU accell
01:42 AM L29Ah: do i get it right you've offloaded the stepper handling away?
01:53 AM CaptHindsight: stepping was on the FPGA
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: I didn't find any ports fast enough to handle stepping at typical cnc machines speeds
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: on the A20 or other allwinner arm soc's
01:57 AM CaptHindsight: one of the LCNC devs also got a Samsung Odroid board working with a Mesa FPGA over SPI
02:01 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
02:01 AM L29Ah: it's strange as pretty much every arm soc has plentiful of gpio that can handle tens of megahertz
02:01 AM L29Ah: and it's the question of scheduling basically
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: where are the GPIO specs?
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: is there a deep FIFO in the GPIO?
02:04 AM L29Ah: in the datasheet ;]
02:04 AM L29Ah: no buffering
02:05 AM CaptHindsight: so write the scheduler for ARM if that is the case
02:06 AM L29Ah: rt-linux is already there
02:07 AM CaptHindsight: so then what are you complaining about? :)
02:08 AM IchGucksLive: L29Ah: there are images like mashinekit that run on your systems
02:08 AM IchGucksLive: L29Ah: xu4 is best choice
02:08 AM L29Ah: i'm complaining about the unavailability of the generic gpio backend for the linuxcnc hal, yet there is a specialized gpio backend for beaglebone that is strange as no one would write it given the simple generic one works fine
02:09 AM L29Ah: maybe i'm missing something
02:10 AM L29Ah: will have to do more experiments i guess
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: if the generic one works then why doesn't it work?
02:11 AM L29Ah: because it doesn't exist
02:11 AM CaptHindsight: so it doesn't work
02:12 AM IchGucksLive: L29Ah: you are asking for bb_gpio
02:13 AM L29Ah: IchGucksLive: no, bb_gpio is basically a driver that expects a certain mmio hardware
02:14 AM L29Ah: while i don't know what is the memory layout of gpio on my soc and the linux kernel cares about it for me anyway so why shouldn't i use its api?
02:14 AM IchGucksLive: hm2_spi does work on almost every arm
02:14 AM IchGucksLive: as of 2.7
02:15 AM L29Ah: sure, and it needs me to acquire the separate hardware that would do the bit banging
02:16 AM CaptHindsight: I forget how the GPIO is connected to the core in the A20
02:17 AM L29Ah: must be some simple latch
02:17 AM IchGucksLive: L29Ah: the arm is a 1.8V device you need to go via 3.3 to 5 to drive your system
02:17 AM L29Ah: IchGucksLive: mine is 3.3
02:17 AM CaptHindsight: don't think so
02:18 AM IchGucksLive: so yours got alredy a stage inbetween
02:18 AM L29Ah: CaptHindsight: why wouldn't it be like that?
02:18 AM CaptHindsight: since that would be easy
02:18 AM CaptHindsight: just give priority to the GPIO, done
02:19 AM IchGucksLive: L29Ah: you know ths repro http://repos.rcn-ee.com/
02:23 AM CaptHindsight: the A20 user manual 1.19 covers the port controller
02:24 AM CaptHindsight: but I don't see how it's connected to the core
02:24 AM CaptHindsight: chapter 6 has the interfaces but nothing on GPIO
02:26 AM IchGucksLive: a2 for mashine kitr there are images out like https://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBoneBlack_Debian#BBW.2FBBB_.28All_Revs.29_Machinekit
02:28 AM L29Ah: wow, found machinekit, looks like they forked and patched linuxcnc a lot and they have a handful more mmio gpio drivers but still no linux api-based one
02:28 AM L29Ah: wtf
02:30 AM CaptHindsight: they use the PRU's in the BBB
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: im off
02:32 AM CaptHindsight: let us know if you find the magic code to run the GPIO on arm soc's into the 100's of Khz range
02:35 AM CaptHindsight: it would be handy
02:37 AM CaptHindsight: synchronized
02:38 AM CaptHindsight: vs random spew
02:41 AM gloops: waiting for the slow boat from china
02:47 AM archivist: I try to find a uk chinese stockist
02:47 AM gloops: the general attitude is like 'manuana' - tommorrow, tommorrow will be ok we will do it tommorrow
02:47 AM gloops: yeah so do i archivist, but the price was good, im not ready to build really anyway
02:48 AM archivist: I went to one to make sure I got the right part,
02:49 AM archivist: piles of boxes strewn over a warehouse floor
02:51 AM gloops: well for low prices everything is run on skeleton basis
02:52 AM archivist: poor sods have to find the right box
02:52 AM gloops: thats not really cost effective though, if it were organised he would spend a lot less time looking
02:53 AM gloops: i suppose so long as they get it out somehow and the payments keep coming, it functions
02:57 AM archivist: the efficiency gain of barcodes and computerised locations/maps is huge
02:57 AM archivist: I implemented it for my archive
02:59 AM gloops: probably nobody to put it away, ive noticed this kind of false economising with a few foreign outfits
02:59 AM gloops: (and some english ones)
03:02 AM archivist: I was spending too much time searching, started some years ago, not quite barcoded all books yet
03:02 AM selroc: hi
03:02 AM archivist: ho
03:06 AM gloops: its only the same with having tools organised
03:09 AM archivist: tools, another can o worms, many of mine are too small for barcodes
03:10 AM gloops: same principle though, sockets mixed in a bucket or sockets on pegs with sizes
03:11 AM archivist: not to easy with needle files
03:12 AM archivist: I have my sockets on bars with spring pegs so they can still be in the toolbox
03:27 AM gloops: well, one thing with waiting, you get time to do all the jobs that usually get done after youve built, like preparing the location, will get some soundproofing done
03:31 AM archivist: I skip that stage as I live alone :)
05:00 AM Loetmichel: *hmpf*. 20 Amplifier boards hand populated with parts. now to program the Mega8 on them... WHERE THE FU** IS THE AVR DRAGON??!? I HATE IT when boss "cleans up the place" at the weekend and has forgotten where he put my stuff on monday. :-(
05:00 AM jthornton: morning
05:00 AM XXCoder: hey
05:00 AM XXCoder: jthornton: youre bit early
05:01 AM jthornton: yea got up to see if the chicken door opens and the light comes on
05:02 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens-2/10-16-17-a.jpg
05:02 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens-2/10-16-17-c.jpg
05:02 AM MarcelineVQ: pretty happy lookin chicks
05:03 AM jthornton: I'm the big chicken
05:03 AM archivist: ready to crap on him :)
05:03 AM jthornton: I wish she would face forward for that reason
05:04 AM XXCoder: chickens like to sit on people eh?
05:04 AM MarcelineVQ: free heat pad
05:04 AM XXCoder: also think youre not chickem but egg and they are trying to hatch you ;)
05:04 AM MarcelineVQ: hah
05:04 AM jthornton: only if they are raised to like people
05:04 AM jthornton: they are much too young to think about hatching anything
05:05 AM XXCoder: :)
05:06 AM alex_joni: hey jthornton
05:06 AM jthornton: hey alex, hows it going over there
05:06 AM alex_joni: busy ;)
05:06 AM alex_joni: didn't find the time to drop in anymore
05:06 AM alex_joni: I mean.. usually busy
05:07 AM XXCoder: jt I still remember that video of 2 chickens stopping rabbit fight
05:07 AM jthornton: weird but I've been super busy with jobs lately too
05:07 AM jthornton: yea that was a funny video
05:08 AM jthornton: and the chicken light goes on and the door goes up
05:08 AM XXCoder: woot
05:08 AM jthornton: yea at least I'm back running... I wonder what happened to the RTC's
05:09 AM jthornton: oh well the raspberry pie will be more fun to program I think
05:11 AM jthornton: 3C here this morning, had to ditch the shorts for sweat pants
05:12 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:13 AM jthornton: today will be a good day to work on the field fence that is down
05:17 AM jthornton: anyone mess with a raspberry pi?
05:28 AM alex_joni: jthornton: a long time ago, but depends what you want to do
05:28 AM jthornton: chicken automation lol
05:28 AM jthornton: open/close a door turn on lights and heaters etc
05:29 AM alex_joni: I'd look at IFTTT
05:29 AM alex_joni: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Use-IFTT-on-Your-Pi/
05:29 AM jthornton: thanks
05:30 AM jthornton: is that a cloud thing?
05:30 AM XXCoder: hey guys
05:30 AM alex_joni: yup, easy to program
05:31 AM jthornton: I have very limited bandwidth so clouds are out for me
05:31 AM XXCoder: im wondering what would be good system to put cameras and can access video stored at own server?
05:31 AM jthornton: I use zoneminder
05:32 AM jthornton: and store the events on my ubuntu server
05:32 AM XXCoder: webcams or what?
05:33 AM alex_joni: analog, ip, etc
05:33 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:33 AM jthornton: most are SV3C bullet IP cameras
05:33 AM XXCoder: just want both doors videotaped
05:33 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G1U4MVA
05:33 AM jthornton: that's the cheap one I have
05:33 AM XXCoder: lol found it bit before you linked
05:34 AM alex_joni: same here
05:34 AM XXCoder: lol one picture is haliously bad photoshop
05:34 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WVG6K7S
05:35 AM alex_joni: the ip66 stuff?
05:35 AM jthornton: that's the most expensive one I have
05:35 AM alex_joni: I also have a couple hikvision's here.. but connected to a NVR from them
05:35 AM jthornton: has good night time image
05:35 AM alex_joni: jthornton: how do they compare image wise?
05:35 AM XXCoder: apparently very bad on network security
05:36 AM jthornton: yea most are not very network secure lol
05:36 AM XXCoder: root cat1029
05:36 AM alex_joni: I used DS-2CD2020F-I
05:36 AM jthornton: the cheap one does not have very good night time image but day time is good
05:37 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2R5THA
05:37 AM jthornton: I still need to plug that one in and see how the varifocal works
05:38 AM alex_joni: XXCoder: I used a NVR for various reasons: has POE built in, each camera is connected only to the NVR, it does recording and everything inside
05:38 AM jthornton: I put a 4 port POE switch in the chicken coop so I can put a couple of cameras out in the woods
05:40 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:44 AM jthornton: I'm putting one camera watching the deer feeder and one watching my predator trap
05:48 AM XXCoder: https://www.amazon.com/FuriAuto-Camera-Hidden-Control-Wireless/dp/B01N6EJNM0/
05:49 AM MarcelineVQ: well now there's an interesting idea
05:49 AM jthornton: cool
05:50 AM XXCoder: different variant https://www.amazon.com/Maximus-Video-Security-Camera-Outdoor/dp/B010FWU62E/
05:51 AM alex_joni: live streaming only with subscription plan? no thanks
05:52 AM XXCoder: yeah cloud only service no thanks also
05:52 AM XXCoder: company goes tits up no service
05:52 AM alex_joni: and too obscure/not widespread to be hacked by close minded
05:56 AM XXCoder: interesting https://www.amazon.com/HOSAFE-Outdoor-Detection-Working-Software/dp/B00Z09G3NE/
05:56 AM XXCoder: has poe
05:57 AM jthornton: HoSafe sounds like it's from chicago
05:57 AM XXCoder: reviews on that is pretty shitty
05:57 AM jthornton: gotta keep my ho's safe lol
05:58 AM XXCoder: lol
05:58 AM jthornton: I went through a few cameras before I stopped returning them lol
06:01 AM XXCoder: I wish i had hacking skills
06:01 AM XXCoder: or I would roll my own firmware
06:01 AM XXCoder: no worries on crap on it
06:02 AM XXCoder: jthornton: one you linked is one of better ones apparently
06:02 AM XXCoder: even with its uber in secure telnet
06:02 AM XXCoder: *insecure
06:02 AM jthornton: the hikvision?
06:02 AM XXCoder: sv3c
06:06 AM XXCoder: too bad there is no power across wifi lol
06:18 AM jthornton: there is a wireless power transmission now
06:19 AM XXCoder: yeah though still full of issues
06:20 AM XXCoder: apparently amish uses powered tools
06:20 AM XXCoder: more properly, air-powered ones
06:20 AM XXCoder: because electricity is full of satan power apparent;y
06:20 AM jthornton: depends on the what the group leader thinks is ok
06:20 AM XXCoder: yeah and just found out they have computers. as long as they dont bring it to homes
06:21 AM XXCoder: so ones rich enough to have business office can have computer. just no internet
06:21 AM XXCoder: no videos too
06:21 AM XXCoder: http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/6/5/2/631652_v2.jpg
06:21 AM XXCoder: it specifes that on banner.
06:22 AM XXCoder: no internet no video no music
06:22 AM XXCoder: thats 99% of what I use on computer :P (ignoring music that does not affect me)
06:33 AM MrSunshine: hmm, strange .. no driver out of position according to the drivers self .. but my position was off like 17mm in Z axis and 4mm in Y axis today .. all of the sudden :/
06:33 AM MrSunshine: can realtime delays mess up stuff like that ?
06:37 AM archivist: define "off" did you forget to home and touch off
06:38 AM jthornton: no a realtime delay would only make it arrive late
06:42 AM jthornton: http://hiddenridge.net/wp/index.php/motorized-rolling-coop-door/door-control-web-page/
06:43 AM archivist: much lower forces with a door like that
06:44 AM jthornton: yes I thought it was an interesting door
06:45 AM alex_joni: jthornton: probably this is enough https://nodered.org/docs/hardware/raspberrypi
06:49 AM jthornton: what does node red do?
06:50 AM alex_joni: it's similar to HAL with a graphical editor
06:50 AM alex_joni: you link things together to determine what happens when
06:51 AM alex_joni: https://nodered.org/#features
06:51 AM jthornton: cool, I was just going to use a python program to control the coop automation
06:59 AM MrSunshine: archivist, nope .. it worked fine the first part, next part when i looked it was in the air cutting :P
07:00 AM yawniek: does someone in here has experience with berger lahr twin line controllers ?
07:01 AM archivist: MrSunshine, so a Z error, check if acceleration is set too high, or any mechanical fault, eg slipping couplers
07:03 AM MrSunshine: archivist, gonna check for slipping coupler as my drivers alarms if they cant move the motor
07:04 AM archivist: it is a fault I have had
07:04 AM archivist: also seen poor coupling in optos to stepper drivers
07:05 AM archivist: and vfd electrical noise causing steps in drivers, bad grounding and wiring
07:06 AM archivist: screen the wires from vfd to mill frame
09:34 AM {HD}_ is now known as {HD}
09:45 AM Loetmichel: MAAAN do i have a tremor today (while soldering)... -> https://youtu.be/z_p_eIInq9M
10:59 AM JT-Shop: wow I have some pin heads that hatched out
11:17 AM Jymmm: JT-Shop: congrats, like like mini dinos dont they =)
11:18 AM Jymmm: look*
11:29 AM JT-Shop: tiny little buggers and I didn't try very hard to keep the dirt moist and got some pin heads anyway
11:30 AM JT-Shop: need to figure out a way to move them to a smaller container so I can clean the big one out
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: löthonig oder fluxxer für KLD
12:21 PM Loetmichel: kld?
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: Kupferlackdraht abmanteln
12:43 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: fire
12:45 PM Loetmichel: if its a "solder thru" type of enamel wire. if its one that is "high temperature capable" use the approbiate tool or improvise with a bit of 400 grit sandpaper folded in half. -> https://www.conrad.de/de/lackabzieh-pinzette-130-mm-bernstein-5-181-813762.html
12:47 PM SpeedEvil: Fire actually works really well.
12:47 PM SpeedEvil: Rin it through a lighter flame till red hot, wipe off soot.
12:47 PM SpeedEvil: Or dip in water while still hot to get it shiny
12:47 PM L29Ah: fire softens the wire
12:47 PM SpeedEvil: Sure.
12:48 PM L29Ah: i prefer cutting pliers
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: SpeedEvil: fire is not the first choice and the tool is expensive
12:52 PM SpeedEvil: I should have translated the first question I guess.
01:35 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: if you think 8.99€ is too expensive: take a strip of packaging steel band, heat it red hot on the bends and make a stripper tweezers the DIY way.
01:35 PM Loetmichel: cheapskate.
01:37 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: But but but he might be too cheap to waste the cost of fuel to heat the metal ;)
01:37 PM Loetmichel: just see to it that the edges of the tweezers are NOT heated (so they stay somewhat hard) and the angle of the tips is around 45° to the center line of the tweezers.
01:37 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: then he is out of luck ;)
01:37 PM gloops: what are you trying to do here?
01:37 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: Maybe he can the the neighbors house on fire and heat it that way?
01:38 PM Loetmichel: gloops: IchGucksLive asked how to get rid of the paint at the end of Enamel wire.
01:38 PM gloops: ahh
01:38 PM Jymmm: oh acetone
01:38 PM Jymmm: or sandpaper
01:38 PM Jymmm: or a blowtorch
01:39 PM IchGucksLive: so many choces thanks
01:39 PM Loetmichel: [19:11] <Loetmichel> IchGucksLive: fire
01:39 PM Loetmichel: [19:14] <Loetmichel> if its a "solder thru" type of enamel wire. if its one that is "high temperature capable" use the approbiate tool or improvise with a bit of 400 grit sandpaper folded in half. -> https://www.conrad.de/de/lackabzieh-pinzette-130-mm-bernstein-5-181-813762.html
01:39 PM gloops: just poke it in the candle flame when youre boiling the kettle
01:39 PM Loetmichel: thats basically what i said earlier, Jymmm
01:39 PM Loetmichel: :-)
01:40 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: -shurg-
01:41 PM jelly-home is now known as jelly
01:42 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Stock-Nema34-8N-m-Servo-Motor-Closed-Loop-116mm-HSS86-Hybrid-Driver-CNC-Kit-/263259600827?
01:42 PM gloops: whats the difference between a servo motor and a stepper motor?
01:42 PM gloops: 8nm that would make the router sing
01:43 PM L29Ah: servo motor is usually bldc with an encoder and a controller included
01:44 PM gloops: hmm, thats a hybrid i posted, thats something i dont know about
01:44 PM gloops: just runs the same though - from a breakout board?
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: lots of power ghood controld
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: yes
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: step and dir
01:45 PM gloops: interesting
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: with very high frequency
01:45 PM gloops: what does high frequency do?
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: moving fast
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: the driver has a internal latch
01:46 PM gloops: right, was going to ask are they faster or just more torque
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: they can go up to 1500U/min while a stepepr only goes 120
01:48 PM gloops: thats what you want for 8x4 table
01:48 PM IchGucksLive: why closed loop
01:49 PM gloops: dont even know what it means
01:49 PM IchGucksLive: the driver knows the step is made
01:49 PM IchGucksLive: or has been proceddes
01:49 PM IchGucksLive: but the pc does not know
01:50 PM gloops: PC only has theoretical position them
01:51 PM IchGucksLive: the same as yo got always
01:51 PM gregcnc: always?
01:51 PM IchGucksLive: no return from mashine
01:51 PM gloops: im not buying any now, just pondering them, for the day i want them
01:51 PM IchGucksLive: thats what we do all most cheep
01:51 PM gregcnc: unless you do real servos
01:52 PM IchGucksLive: 7i77
01:52 PM gregcnc: and close the loop in linuxcnc
01:52 PM gregcnc: most cheap works for you
01:52 PM IchGucksLive: yes
01:52 PM gregcnc: not everyone does it
01:52 PM IchGucksLive: for steel you may go for closed others do not need it
01:53 PM IchGucksLive: woodwork not at all
01:53 PM gregcnc: for a router steppers are fine
01:53 PM IchGucksLive: even plasma what if i loose 0,1mm
01:53 PM gregcnc: depends how often it happens
01:54 PM IchGucksLive: mechanics first and you are fine
01:56 PM gloops: says here closed loop never loses steps
01:56 PM gloops: UK 2 HSS86 is a 2 phase Nema 34 frame size series Hybrid Stepper Servo Driver. It adopts new generation 32 bit DSP and vector control technology, which can avoid the stepper motor losing steps and ensure the positional accuracy of the motor. The torque reduction is reduced over conventional open loop stepper motor systems when running at higher speeds, therefore high speed performance and torque are enhanced.
01:57 PM IchGucksLive: which can ?
01:57 PM IchGucksLive: !!
01:57 PM IchGucksLive: its the Mach best offer
01:57 PM IchGucksLive: as they like to loose
01:57 PM IchGucksLive: on latency timing it will not overrun the mechanics
01:58 PM IchGucksLive: BUT as they got cheeper its the next step to get all inmproved
01:58 PM gloops: the machines will have to be pretty good
01:58 PM gloops: mechanics
01:59 PM IchGucksLive: (nM is a hell of force
01:59 PM IchGucksLive: 8
01:59 PM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_IuG20PIPQ
02:00 PM IchGucksLive: BUT as always the hint is the power
02:00 PM IchGucksLive: you need best 72V DEADLY Voltige
02:00 PM IchGucksLive: and per stepper ACT 8Amps
02:01 PM IchGucksLive: this will push the total cost in a region where Real servos 400W 220V kicks in
02:01 PM gloops: hey thats pretty good gregcnc
02:02 PM gloops: Ichs not much cost if youre cutting twice as fast though, and no lost steps
02:02 PM gloops: someone with full order book
02:02 PM gloops: not even 1 weeks earnings for the machine
02:03 PM IchGucksLive: agrees on that
02:06 PM gloops: but the cost of the mechanics rises in proportion, for fast deep cuts, you need better bearings, bigger screws or belt, rigid gantry etc
02:11 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: its all what you need
02:11 PM IchGucksLive: a plasma for 675Euros will not meed a 18000one
02:12 PM gloops: yes
02:12 PM IchGucksLive: but it doies cut the same parts
02:13 PM IchGucksLive: if like pink here you make tiny parts you may think on closed loop
02:13 PM IchGucksLive: we will do only closed if thay do the next preice step
02:13 PM gregcnc: tiny parts need resolution and accuracy vs just closed loop
02:14 PM IchGucksLive: 4,5Nm are in the way to be first choice
02:14 PM IchGucksLive: your distributor you posted has the 2Nm and 4,5Nm look at the costs
02:15 PM IchGucksLive: why it meeds its the power behind that also drives the costs
02:17 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
02:27 PM andypugh: cradek: You could make a clock out of these, if you could find enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmWg7CtN0Ac&t=245s
02:28 PM cradek: heh I've got some
02:28 PM cradek: they have the zeroes fairly well burnt in
02:28 PM cradek: hers does too!
02:28 PM andypugh: Indeed.
02:28 PM slipalong: Anyone running a G0704 at all?
02:28 PM andypugh: I have a very similar workbench though. :-)
02:30 PM slipalong: I've bought a 1605 ballscrew for the z axis
02:30 PM andypugh: cradek: There is a link in the description to a rather simpler and easier display.
02:30 PM slipalong: But now I have it in bits I notice its 20mm acme screw in there
02:31 PM andypugh: 1605 seems quite big enough for a G0704 to me.
02:32 PM slipalong: Its quite a heavy lump and that's before its cutting
02:32 PM cradek: I've got some of those IEE displays too...
02:33 PM gregcnc: 1605 are common for g0704
02:34 PM slipalong: Even for the z?
02:34 PM cradek: andypugh: she's missing the "socket" that the module plugs into
02:34 PM cradek: you're not supposed to solder to the bulbs!
02:34 PM andypugh: She hasn’t done.
02:35 PM andypugh: Ah, the IEE ones? Yes, she admits to the lack of the socket.
02:35 PM cradek: sorry I didn't sit through the 10-minute videos...
02:35 PM andypugh: The NIMO one is 36 minutes. My interest is waning.
02:36 PM cradek: I multiplexed mine which required the soldering of many many diodes
02:48 PM jdh: I think I have a 20 on my g0704 z, but 16 would be fine
02:49 PM gloops: one more thing with closed loop steppers and losing steps, supposing x travel is stopped, but y isnt? x may well continue without losing steps but why has moved on already - thats a cutting fault
02:49 PM slipalong: Ok thanks I will try the 1605
02:49 PM gloops: y has moved on
02:50 PM gregcnc: usually the drives error and if you setup the machine properly will stop the machine
02:50 PM gregcnc: machine problems can scrap your part
02:51 PM slipalong: I think many of the closed loop drivers have an error output which you can wire into the BB to estop the machine
02:52 PM gloops: it kinda negates the advantage of regaining steps though, if x is temporarily stopped or slowed down, y keeps cutting, you arent getting a straight line anyway
02:52 PM gregcnc: that's any machine though
02:52 PM gregcnc: if you have enough resolution the amount of error allowed before fault can be made very small
02:54 PM gloops: so with closed loop we get an e-step, with open loop we get a crooked circle
02:55 PM gloops: e-stop
02:55 PM sync: yes
02:56 PM gregcnc: you learn to make cutting load within the machines capacity to prevent problems
02:56 PM Tom_L: big machines have load meters
02:57 PM sync: or you just have closed loop drives
02:57 PM gloops: load meter would be useful
02:59 PM HighInBC: I am setting up my new 3040 and having a bit of an issue with the limit switches
03:00 PM HighInBC: when I home an axis, lets say Z it goes up until it hits the switch. Then it backs off a little but not enough and complains about the switch being still on. How do I adjust how much it backs off?
03:01 PM HighInBC: also I have ordered better switches with hopefully less hysteresis
03:02 PM jdh: add some debounce to the switch
03:05 PM gloops: ive got some switches to fix up, never got round to it
03:05 PM gloops: ive only worked in about 10 inch of 4ft lol
03:06 PM gloops: HighIn - doesnt it back off then go back a bit?
03:07 PM HighInBC: it hits the switch then goes back a little but not enough to release the switch
03:07 PM HighInBC: these are some pretty crappy switches that came with it
03:07 PM HighInBC: big difference between their on position and off position
03:07 PM gloops: cant you adjust the switch?
03:09 PM gloops: these ive got you can extend the arm
03:09 PM HighInBC: I can't control how far it needs to be pushed to go and and off. It needs to go almost all the way down to click on and almost all the way up to go off, it is a big area. I have already ordered better switches
03:09 PM HighInBC: is there no setting to make it try to back off further?
03:09 PM slipalong: Yes now I understand about homing and touching off I don't see the point of the switches and haven't bothered fitting them
03:10 PM gloops: dont know about tweaking the distance, not got linuxcnc open here
03:11 PM gloops: in the ini there are home values
03:11 PM gloops: home offset?
03:12 PM gloops: dont know slipalong, i bust the tinny shaft coupler on my z in seconds haha
03:12 PM gloops: stop switch would be useful on z at least
03:13 PM HighInBC: when I got it the limit switches were: loose and wiggly, had broken wires, were wired such that the gantry would run over the wires, the bottom z limit was such that the spindle would crash before it was clicked
03:14 PM HighInBC: and of course setup as normally open so that if anything went wrong the CNC would happily carry on
03:14 PM HighInBC: now it seems the switches themselves are pretty useless due to how much play they have
03:15 PM XXCoder: dang HighInBC
03:15 PM HighInBC: everything else was pretty well put together though, except for a poorly mount rheostat for the spindle
03:16 PM HighInBC: Obviously a different team was in charge of the limit switches than the rest of it
03:16 PM HighInBC: I sort of expect to ahve to repair chinese products when they arrive, but dang indeed
03:18 PM gloops: yeah but if it worked out of the bix you would be learning so much about how it works
03:18 PM gloops: box
03:18 PM HighInBC: indeed
03:18 PM HighInBC: really I bought it for the mechanical parts, knowing that the electronics would be ripe for upgrading
03:19 PM HighInBC: time to practice my google foo
03:21 PM HighInBC: ohh, I think I need a negative latch velocity
03:21 PM HighInBC: rtfm right? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini-homing.html
03:21 PM gloops: well i was just going to suggest...lol
03:22 PM HighInBC: going to try that out now
03:31 PM XXCoder: wendy's is people. https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7079750400/h25063476/
04:07 PM XXCoder: guys using linux computers, there should be new wpa patch if you use wireless by now, mine just got it
04:26 PM HighInBC: that worked
04:29 PM XXCoder: nice
04:30 PM Deejay: gn8
04:46 PM gloops: i got updates today but something has upset my browser
05:04 PM HighInBC: well I have it working, but my scale is wrong
05:04 PM HighInBC: need to figure that out
05:05 PM gloops: driven by screws?
05:06 PM HighInBC: ballscrews yes
05:06 PM HighInBC: was working from a chinese manual meant for mach3
05:06 PM HighInBC: it does not seem to list information that mach assumes as default I think
05:07 PM gloops: probably unlikely you got the pitch of the screws wrong, how about steps?
05:08 PM HighInBC: the manual gives a value for "steps per", which I entered into linuxcnc's "steps per rotation" 400
05:08 PM HighInBC: which is double 360/1.8
05:08 PM HighInBC: so I think I need to set my microstep parameter
05:09 PM gloops: i got the dipswitches wrong on the cheapo drivers, but you might not have those kind of drivers
05:10 PM HighInBC: I have not changed anything inside the unit
05:10 PM HighInBC: I need to rest my brain for now, will try again later
05:10 PM gloops: the manual might be giving steps per unit - inch, or mm, not rotation
05:11 PM HighInBC: perhaps. it is a 1.8 degree stepper I know that much
05:11 PM HighInBC: so that should be 200 full steps per rotation
05:11 PM gloops: yes
05:12 PM HighInBC: so I assumed the 400 was due to 2x microstepping
05:12 PM gloops: in linuxcnc i think 2 is 400
05:12 PM gloops: yeah think it is
05:13 PM HighInBC: need to rest my brain for now. I got a half sized "LinuxCNC" engraved so that deserved a 420 break
05:14 PM gloops: youre not far away if half sized, but bed for me anyway
07:02 PM MacGalempsy: Hello =)
07:07 PM BeachBumPete: Hey Mac
07:32 PM MacGalempsy: Pete how are things going?
07:32 PM MacGalempsy: SOrry been on the phone with dad
07:42 PM MacGalempsy: i got to go, the wifey is mad
07:43 PM MacGalempsy: ttyl
08:30 PM BeachBumPete: Anyone here real good with F360 yet?
08:31 PM BeachBumPete: I'm having a problem with my posts they fail for some unknown reason
08:32 PM BeachBumPete: it simulates fine
08:32 PM BeachBumPete: trying to cut my first program with it here using the linuxCNC EMC2 post
08:35 PM BeachBumPete: ah just found the program editor and it says too number exceeds available max value...that sucks
08:37 PM MarcelineVQ: tool number? there's alimit to the number of tool swapouts? doesn't sound right
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: no apparently the tool numbering has a limit for some odd reason
08:38 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm I must not understand, what is tool numbering?
08:38 PM hazzy: You get the tool number error in LinuxCNC or in F360?
08:38 PM BeachBumPete: F360
08:39 PM BeachBumPete: have not gotten it to post properly yet
08:42 PM MarcelineVQ: ah I see there's a tool parameter limit based on the post being used, some info here not sure how helpful https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-post-processor-forum/warning-tool-number-exceeds-maximum-value/td-p/6097456
08:43 PM BeachBumPete: hehe I was just reading that exact thing
08:45 PM hazzy: I have never encountered that error before that I remember, but since it is in the post it seems like I would have. odd
08:48 PM BeachBumPete: doesn't the little percent signs at the top and bottom of the program get rejected by LinuxCNC?
08:50 PM hazzy: no
08:50 PM hazzy: But they are not necessary
08:51 PM hazzy1: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#gcode:file-requirements
08:54 PM hazzy1: using % to bracket the code does not have any effect if a M2 or M30 is used in addition
08:55 PM Tom_L: i add them for completeness anyway
08:56 PM hazzy1: same here. Also is good for compatibility with other controls
08:57 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete no they don't get rejected
08:59 PM BeachBumPete: ah OK
09:00 PM BeachBumPete: also the filetype is .ngc and I had been using .nc is that ok too? or can I change that?
09:00 PM hazzy: that is fine
09:00 PM Tom_L: doesn't matter
09:00 PM Tom_L: i use .txt
09:00 PM Tom_L: :)
09:00 PM Tom_L: just add it to your ini
09:00 PM BeachBumPete: can you change it somewhere just for continuity's sake?
09:01 PM BeachBumPete: I must say guys this program so far looks absolutely kickazz
09:01 PM Tom_L: in F360?
09:01 PM Tom_L: i dunno
09:02 PM BeachBumPete: this will not only be my first program in F360 but my first 3D file I cut using a CAD/CAM integrated package kinda cool
09:03 PM Tom_itx: [FILTER]
09:03 PM Tom_itx: PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .txt XYZ Post Processor
09:03 PM Tom_L: i just put that in the ini
09:03 PM Tom_L: or any extension you like
09:03 PM BeachBumPete: yeah I know like I said I am using .nc
09:05 PM BeachBumPete: ok just found it.
09:05 PM BeachBumPete: you mod your post for it
09:06 PM Tom_L: i've never looked at F360
09:06 PM Tom_L: it doesn't have a post for linuxcnc?
09:06 PM hazzy: yes, sorry I did not know you wanted to change the F360 output ext to .nc
09:07 PM Tom_L: i thought i'd heard it did
09:07 PM hazzy: it does
09:07 PM Tom_L: how good is it?
09:07 PM BeachBumPete: it does
09:07 PM BeachBumPete: we will see how good it is here
09:07 PM Tom_L: mine has one little spot i've never been able to correct
09:07 PM hazzy: It seems fine, I have never had any problems with it and do a lot of 3D stuff
09:08 PM Tom_L: on a z retract it writes the code twice in certain circumstances
09:08 PM Tom_L: haven't figured out a way to fix it but haven't really worried about it either
09:09 PM hazzy: I have never noticed that, but I may never look close enough :)
09:09 PM Tom_L: i did add code to mine for rigid tapping
09:09 PM Tom_L: and that works nice
09:09 PM Tom_L: hazzy this is another cad cam
09:09 PM Tom_L: an old version of smartcam i use
09:10 PM BeachBumPete: apparently that is all inlcuded in the LinuxCNC post tom
09:10 PM hazzy: Tom_L: ah, ok. I did not catch that
09:11 PM BeachBumPete: for some odd reason the post is numbering the programs starting at 1001 how do I change that?
09:13 PM hazzy: LCNC can use alphanumeric program names (thank goodness!), so I just name it what I like before posting
09:14 PM hazzy: You should be able to change the post to use the part name if you like
09:14 PM BeachBumPete: ah apparently it is in the setup when you first start the CAM
09:14 PM BeachBumPete: the last tab is post processor and it gives you the opportunity to name it as well as adding comments to each program
09:15 PM hazzy: yes
09:21 PM Tom_itx: BeachBumPete, i dunno if this is related or not:
09:21 PM Tom_itx: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-plant-3d/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Plant3D-UserGuide/files/piping-line-numbers-set-to-htm.html
09:22 PM Tom_itx: that may be a whole other product for all i know
09:25 PM hazzy1: looks like it is :D
09:25 PM Tom_itx: http://help.autodesk.com/view/fusion360/ENU/?guid=GUID-878489CD-3A23-4303-8450-C2F4F8E410B1
09:25 PM Tom_itx: may have other useful info there
09:25 PM Tom_itx: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/getting-started?sort=score
09:53 PM BeachBumPete: well it looks like it is working perfectly so far ;)
10:15 PM BeachBumPete: now I just have to add my little move the table to center of X and all the way forward after program ends script LOL
10:20 PM Tom_L: what part are you programming?
10:20 PM BeachBumPete: its just a simple thing I needed to do.
10:20 PM Tom_L: not that one you started on..
10:20 PM BeachBumPete: I have to machine a long cove cut in the bottom of a part that is 1.375" diameter
10:21 PM BeachBumPete: program ran fine
10:21 PM BeachBumPete: it does things a bit differently or at least in a different order
10:22 PM BeachBumPete: for instance my old post kills the spindle then the coolant once it hits safe Z
10:22 PM Tom_L: you should be able to control that
10:22 PM BeachBumPete: this one killed coolant at safeZ then left spindle on until it hit z home
10:22 PM BeachBumPete: I am sure
10:22 PM BeachBumPete: just really would like to add that whole center the table thing and bring table forward after program is done
10:23 PM BeachBumPete: makes changing parts and loosening vises nice
10:24 PM Tom_L: i typically do a G49 G28 Z0
10:24 PM Tom_L: G28 Y0
10:25 PM Tom_L: at the end
10:25 PM BeachBumPete: I do a G53 Go Zo
10:25 PM BeachBumPete: then I think its something like G0 X10 Y20 or something like that
10:26 PM BeachBumPete: G00 Z2. M09
10:26 PM BeachBumPete: M05
10:26 PM BeachBumPete: G53 G0 Z0.
10:26 PM BeachBumPete: G53 G0. X10. Y20.
10:26 PM BeachBumPete: M30
10:28 PM Tom_L: is Z2 your z clear distance?
10:28 PM BeachBumPete: yeah
10:29 PM BeachBumPete: typically anyway
10:30 PM BeachBumPete: what would you call those movements at the end of a program for a search term?
10:30 PM Tom_L: not really sure
10:36 PM Tom_L: mine has an @end section
10:39 PM BeachBumPete: I did load all of my known tools into F360 today and tried to optimize and accurize things
10:42 PM ASRock_pc: http://cam.autodesk.com/posts/reference/index.html
10:43 PM Tom_L: you seen that?
10:43 PM Tom_L: onClose()
10:43 PM ASRock_pc: onClose() is invoked at post processing completion. This is the place to output your program footer.
10:44 PM ASRock_pc: http://cam.autodesk.com/posts/reference/entry_functions.html
10:45 PM BeachBumPete: ah ok
10:45 PM BeachBumPete: need to figure out how it will be worded here now
10:46 PM ASRock_pc: http://cam.autodesk.com/posts/
10:48 PM Tom_L: funny they list grbl there but not linuxcnc
10:48 PM BeachBumPete: its in the last paragraph of the linuxCNC post
10:48 PM BeachBumPete: trying to figure out what to change
10:48 PM Tom_L: where do you find that post?
10:49 PM Tom_L: i foundit
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: } else {
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: var homeX;
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: if (machineConfiguration.hasHomePositionX()) {
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: homeX = "X" + xyzFormat.format(machineConfiguration.getHomePositionX());
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: }
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: var homeY;
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: if (machineConfiguration.hasHomePositionY()) {
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: homeY = "Y" + xyzFormat.format(machineConfiguration.getHomePositionY());
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: }
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: writeBlock(gAbsIncModal.format(90), gFormat.format(53), gMotionModal.format(0), homeX, homeY);
10:49 PM BeachBumPete: the else is if you are not using G28 apparently
10:50 PM L29Ah: what's the deal with the linuxcnc/machinekit fork?
10:50 PM L29Ah: can't quite google it out
10:51 PM Tom_L: machinekit is for arm i believe
10:51 PM Tom_L: and they chose to take a different path than linuxcnc
10:52 PM L29Ah: i don't see why can't arm code live inside linuxcnc
10:53 PM L29Ah: fwiw linuxcnc builds fine on my arm machine
10:54 PM Tom_L: like i said, they chose a different path
10:55 PM hazzy: I think one of the main purposes of MachineKit was to abstract HAL and make it usable stand alone
10:56 PM L29Ah: sounds good, but i don't see how is it conflicting with linuxcnc
10:56 PM L29Ah: i guess there were some ideological or organizational problems, and i'm wondering what were those
10:57 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete, look at mapCommand
10:57 PM Tom_L: maybe you can add that you want there and call it something
10:57 PM Tom_L: it looks like an array of constants
10:59 PM hazzy: L29Ah: I think one the the main problem was that Michael Haberler wanted to move faster with the changes than the LCNC developers were comfortable with
10:59 PM Tom_L: agree
11:00 PM Tom_L: at least that was an observation i made at a fest
11:00 PM hazzy: L29Ah: Here is a good presentation by Haberler that might help understand the goal of MachineKit: https://youtu.be/OVVGdQnz5Ts?list=LLTsvY56HGyGMScMmx3DqVtA
11:01 PM BeachBumPete: Well I am heading to bed. Maybe tomorrow I will find the answer. In the mean time first successful 3D program with Fusion360 went well. Very cool
11:01 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete
11:01 PM Tom_L: have you modded any of that post?
11:01 PM BeachBumPete: yeah
11:01 PM BeachBumPete: needs work still so it operates like what I am used to
11:01 PM Tom_L: thru fusion or manually?
11:01 PM BeachBumPete: we;ll get there
11:02 PM BeachBumPete: thru fusion
11:02 PM BeachBumPete: you get an option to mod the post when you post
11:02 PM Tom_L: ok
11:02 PM Tom_L: wasn't sure if you could mod it directly or not
11:02 PM BeachBumPete: I think you can
11:02 PM hazzy: I think it is a shame MachineKit ended up in a fork rather then just a branch, because they have done a lot of good work over there, but I feel it is not taken full advantage of
11:03 PM Tom_L: somehow you need to tell it to not default to G28
11:03 PM Tom_L: then it will use your G53
11:03 PM Tom_L: and you can add what you want in the 'else' section there
11:03 PM BeachBumPete: oh it already does
11:03 PM BeachBumPete: but I need to figure out HOW to add what I want in the onclose section
11:04 PM ASRock_pc: writeBlock(gAbsIncModal.format(90), gFormat.format(53), gMotionModal.format(0), "Z" + xyzFormat.format(0)); // retract
11:04 PM Tom_L: + "X"..... + "Y"
11:05 PM Tom_L: i would probably put it on a separate writeblock line
11:09 PM ASRock_pc: http://fab.cba.mit.edu/content/tools/hurco_mill/hurco_post_processor_explanation_docs/Autodesk%20Post%20Processor%20manual-sm-130829.pdf
11:10 PM Tom_L: probably a good reference for you
11:10 PM BeachBumPete: yeah I was trying to read thry that
11:11 PM Tom_L: or just manually add it with 'writeLn()
11:11 PM Tom_L: below that line
11:11 PM Tom_L: that's likely what i would do
11:12 PM Tom_L: look on P 11
11:12 PM Tom_L: my first post
11:12 PM BeachBumPete: I just need it to post a G53 G0 X10 Y20
11:12 PM Tom_L: add the gcodes formatted like you want with writeLn("Gcode")
11:13 PM Tom_L: in quotes and see what it does
11:13 PM Tom_L: in that else statement on the onclose part
11:14 PM Tom_L: or change the whole onClose() function entirely to what you want
11:15 PM BeachBumPete: tomorrow is another day
11:15 PM BeachBumPete: Thanks guys
11:15 PM Tom_L: later
11:16 PM BeachBumPete: will try to figure it out tomorrow
11:16 PM BeachBumPete: Gn8
11:16 PM Tom_L: ^^ that would be the easy way though
11:18 PM Tom_L: also on P 15
11:20 PM Tom_L: for the axis formatting
11:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/3eAVyS6YOGZ1 getting ready to TIG the new wheel arches in place
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: L29Ah: do you have the A20 docs?
11:49 PM L29Ah: no, i just have some experience with different arm chips
11:51 PM L29Ah: btw, regarding your reproducible latency question, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13583146/whole-one-core-dedicated-to-single-process suggests one should be able to use one cpu core just for the bit banging task easily, so it may be viable on linux w/o any horrible hacks
11:51 PM L29Ah: given memory requests don't explode in your face
11:52 PM L29Ah: i'll try it this week i guess
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: there is no block diagram for the A20
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: I imagine the GPIO to be a block on a bus to the core
11:57 PM CaptHindsight: even with real time on one core you still have to manage the scheduling
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: using one core for real time is what LCNC does, especially RTAI