#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 15 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:49 AM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
01:52 AM XXCoder: hey from rocket country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaeiSncTZFg
01:52 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: better to go hyperloop first :P
01:53 AM XXCoder: musk is also working on that
01:53 AM IchGucksLive: its been build in dubai
01:54 AM IchGucksLive: to Abudabi within the next 2 years
02:20 AM IchGucksLive: off later
02:30 AM Deejay: moin
02:37 AM RyanS: unusual setup http://www.bg-cnc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/New-Belt-Drive-Side.jpg
02:38 AM XXCoder: cheaper belt-wise I guess
02:38 AM XXCoder: probably less rigid as compared to double belt
02:39 AM gloops: i bet its quiet
02:40 AM RyanS: why is double more rigid than single? more meshing surface area?
02:40 AM gloops: well, what youre trying to do is get as many teeth meshed as possible - to reduce backlash
02:40 AM XXCoder: yeah since look at one you showed picture of
02:41 AM XXCoder: gear is connected at only 2 spots
02:41 AM XXCoder: double belt BEGINS at those spots
02:41 AM XXCoder: only disconnected part is the spot where gantry is, and its rigidly held
02:41 AM XXCoder: I could be wrong however
02:41 AM gloops: i dont like that design
02:42 AM gloops: yes agreed XXCoder
02:42 AM gloops: the double belt - say its 2 meters rail, in effect is reducing the belt length to 300mm
02:43 AM gloops: the rest of the belt is locked on the other, only 300mm is in drive-play
02:44 AM gloops: https://solsylva.com/cnc/belt_idlers.jpg
02:45 AM gloops: like that - hes forced the belt right round the pulley by having the idlers close set inderneath
02:46 AM XXCoder: or maybe its stuble enginnering dick joke ;)
02:46 AM gloops: its open to interpretation heh
02:46 AM * archivist looks at image ew a crazy method
02:46 AM RyanS: is a dick drive a good thing?
02:47 AM archivist: the belt is not got a tooth design for external teeth as used there
02:47 AM RyanS: double dick belt drive
02:48 AM archivist: one can build and measure for a giggle
02:49 AM archivist: I expect a tooth rate error in position
02:50 AM gloops: archivist thats the bog standard way for belt and chain
02:50 AM gloops: and another thing you have to remember, and something i found a pain with chain
02:50 AM archivist: gloops timing belts were never designed for external use
02:51 AM archivist: I expect an error like http://www.archivist.info/cnc/wormtest/plot_normalised2.php
02:51 AM gloops: if you have a single belt, either side the gantry, the belts are keeping the gantry in square
02:52 AM archivist: separate problem to squareness
02:52 AM archivist: this is drive distance v commanded distance
02:52 AM gloops: oh we havent time for all that technical information archivist, its a lesser issue than backlash
02:53 AM archivist: they are designed to share the load over many teeth
02:53 AM gloops: the squareness matter can be a real pain in the neck trust me
02:53 AM archivist: I know
02:53 AM gloops: well thats what i said archivist
02:53 AM RyanS: gloops a linked gantry with one motor?
02:54 AM gloops: i found, you tension one side - youre out of square
02:54 AM archivist: timing gears on one shaft does that
02:54 AM gloops: you tension FROM one side of one side - youre out of square
02:55 AM gloops: Ryan thats what ive got - doesnt help keep X square to Y
02:55 AM archivist: belts are also springs
02:55 AM archivist: far less stiff than screws
02:55 AM gloops: screw on each side - gantry solid
02:56 AM gloops: single belt or chain - gantry position is basically suspended by the tension of the belts
02:57 AM gloops: unless your bearings are so good the gantry has no movement either side
02:57 AM RyanS: do does double belt-on-belt remedy the spring behaviour ?
02:57 AM gloops: greatly
02:59 AM RyanS: i also think dust and grit from plasma would cause less troble with double belt than R&P or screw
03:00 AM gloops: its not so much spring, once position is good the drive is surprisingly spot on, ive spent hours though pulling chain a bit this way and a bit that way to get good square
03:01 AM RyanS: belts dont need lubrication which would attract dust
03:02 AM gloops: complicated build, think it through
03:04 AM XXCoder: holy crap new bad obsession motorsport video
03:05 AM gloops: the hours i spent, although i did make everything, including the bearing housings, shaft, idlers, everything, it just wasnt worth it for what i saved, youre better off going to work and buying the components - and keep the design simple to construct
03:05 AM gloops: work a saturday buy a ballscrew - you wont get a belt set up on a saturday trust me
03:10 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1nU9IJsoM
03:12 AM gloops: custom cars have changed a lot since i was a kid
03:12 AM XXCoder: gloops: they are flipping nuts
03:13 AM XXCoder: they took a car essentally well past recovery and worked on it to make racing car anyway
03:13 AM XXCoder: its been years now
03:13 AM RyanS: wont ballscrews need planetary gearbox, bellows etc?
03:13 AM XXCoder: im been subbed for couple years and there was what 5 videos?
03:14 AM XXCoder: oh fine 12 videos in 3 years
03:14 AM gloops: theres someone near me who specialises in restoring old minis 'mini-mods' he had about 13 on the drive last time i saw him haha
03:14 AM XXCoder: driveway?
03:14 AM gloops: hes got one in the garage with only the delivery miles on it
03:15 AM gloops: his drive at the side of his house
03:15 AM XXCoder: 13 minis? dang
03:15 AM gloops: he just buys every scrap mini he sees
03:15 AM XXCoder: he probably want to design same mini holder they designed
03:16 AM XXCoder: it can literally rotate anywhere and can be pulled anywhere
03:16 AM XXCoder: just little part of those 2's insanity
03:16 AM gloops: Ryan no i dont think youll need any of that for a metre machine
03:17 AM XXCoder: coyuld add "ballscrew bushes"
03:17 AM XXCoder: it brushes chips and dust before nut travels over it
03:18 AM gloops: yeah something like that, id consider having overhead rails for plasma anyway
03:20 AM XXCoder: .. electric linear actuator to open an close hood.
03:20 AM gloops: was pretty common to see people working on minis to just roll them onto their side to get underneath
03:20 AM XXCoder: they went there. they are goddamn insane
03:20 AM RyanS: brushed nuts to protect your balls
03:21 AM gloops: or acme screws
03:21 AM gloops: how important are tolerances for this job anyway?
03:22 AM RyanS: more speed
03:22 AM gloops: you could spend a fortune on a mini engine, they used to get them bored out to 1400cc, polish the valves and everything, twin choke carbs
03:23 AM gloops: the shrewd custom car crowd bypassed all that by fitting the 1500 morris engine - was ok but the driveshafts would only take 14 inch wheels - so bigger wheels on front to the back
03:24 AM archivist: sentence fail minis were badged morris too
03:25 AM gloops: sentence fail mini - whats that archivist?
03:26 AM archivist: "the 1500 morris engine"
03:26 AM archivist: from what
03:26 AM gloops: things like the maxi, allegro
03:28 AM XXCoder: "this is heater out of mini, in its long production run, it went from well shite to not really any better"
03:28 AM XXCoder: lol
03:30 AM gloops: any mini was fun to drive, hydrolastic suspension, your ass about 8 inch from the tarmac
03:32 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=austin+maxi+1500 < there are no austin maxis for sale on ebay anymore
03:32 AM XXCoder: gloops: you will probably enjoy the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1nU9IJsoM
03:32 AM XXCoder: hey Wolf__
03:33 AM XXCoder: Wolfmetalfab:
03:33 AM archivist: rot killed the maxi
03:33 AM archivist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-MAXI-1750-AUTOMATIC-/152734747614
03:34 AM gloops: XXCoder that is only a mini by appearance heh
03:34 AM XXCoder: it is that yeah
03:35 AM archivist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/null-Austin-Maxi-/292002592007
03:35 AM archivist: two on ebay
03:35 AM Wolfmetalfab is now known as Wolf__
03:35 AM gloops: didnt see them, rare sight these days
03:36 AM gloops: they were nice cars to drive i thought
03:36 AM archivist: I had one
03:36 AM XXCoder: sadly never had chance to drive nor ride in one
03:37 AM gloops: you could with a bit of skill get the 1500 into a mini, you had to smash the bulkhead back a bit with a hammer - not sure what mods were made to the subframe
03:39 AM XXCoder: aww just finished
03:39 AM XXCoder: now to wait another 5 to 9 months
03:42 AM gloops: thing is, in the days when the mini was going, the UK was an industrial place, lots of handy people around, welders, turners, engineers etc, some interesting back street custom jobs
03:44 AM gloops: nowadays its a case of having a chip changed and sticking some stripes on lol
03:44 AM XXCoder: lol
03:46 AM gloops: there was a bloke who was sick of buying a new exhaust every 2 years, they rotted in no time, so he made one out of copper at work
03:46 AM gloops: only thing was - it sagged when it got hot
03:47 AM XXCoder: stainless steel? wouldnt that last essentally forever?
03:47 AM XXCoder: sure its expensive but...
03:47 AM gloops: would have been better, he worked with sheet copper though
03:49 AM gloops: wtahcing that blinky video, making me think about a plasma table again lol
03:49 AM gloops: binky
04:04 AM XXCoder: yo
04:34 AM miss0r: hey
04:35 AM RyanS: ebay ballscrews to be trusted?
04:36 AM miss0r: heh. thats like asking 'what woman want'
04:36 AM archivist: can be guaranteed to be chinese quality
04:36 AM miss0r: short answer is 'maybe'
04:37 AM archivist: ball screws are probably too good for a plasma cutter
04:37 AM miss0r: yeah :]
04:38 AM RyanS: i should just use r&p like nearly everyone else
04:38 AM miss0r: Actualy, I've never been disappointed with an ebay ballscrew. I didn't have high expectations either, thou
04:39 AM RyanS: the Toyota factory closed in melbourne
04:39 AM miss0r: I used two chinesium ballscrews on my old arboga cnc converted mill. It worked fine
04:40 AM RyanS: just buy a welding robot
04:41 AM archivist: I am a few miles from the local Toymota factory
04:41 AM archivist: the one near Derby
04:44 AM RyanS: http://www.graysonline.com/sale/3013359/automotive-manufacturing/engine-shop-aluminium-casting-assembly-machining-dynamometer-robots-and-cranes?spr=true
04:44 AM RyanS: yaskawa robot
04:45 AM RyanS: a cmm perhaps
04:46 AM archivist: used CMMs are getting cheaper
04:48 AM XXCoder: one has starret one on sale for $2000
04:48 AM XXCoder: *here
04:48 AM RyanS: Australia is crap for used machines--very expensive
04:49 AM RyanS: $1000 used bridgeport ? fageddaboutit
04:56 AM archivist: picture and title wrong http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-horizontal-milling-machine/302483226671
05:00 AM miss0r: table lifted back into place! and nothing fell apart/caught fire. Success!
05:01 AM RyanS: i blame the British for Australias remote location without quality used machinery
05:04 AM miss0r: You gotta love old mills. Without having to do any shimming/ajustments, the table is level within 0.003/500mm
05:05 AM miss0r: Now that calls for a fresh cup'o'coffee and a cigarette.
05:07 AM RyanS: i hate old mills--because i cant get one :p
05:07 AM miss0r: why can't you get one? they come cheap sometimes
05:08 AM RyanS: not here
05:08 AM RyanS: cheaply
05:09 AM miss0r: wheres 'here' ?
05:09 AM RyanS: Australia
05:11 AM archivist: you lot failed to import or make them!
05:12 AM miss0r: lol
05:12 AM RyanS: we were but poor convicts
05:12 AM miss0r: archivist: I do believe the fault lies with you... Not allowing inmates to have a workshop... pfffft
05:13 AM archivist: were not "inmates" we exported them :)
05:14 AM miss0r: hehe
05:14 AM RyanS: and didn't export machines with them
05:15 AM jthornton: morning
05:15 AM RyanS: just rabbits and stuff
05:15 AM miss0r: mornin' jthornton. hows it going
05:16 AM RyanS: then there's the trouble in the middle east
05:17 AM jthornton: just waking up to my first cup of joe
05:17 AM miss0r: cheers
05:18 AM jthornton: chickens were up 20 minutes before me today
05:18 AM miss0r: Thats not realy a concern around here. My son wakes up realy early.
05:19 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:20 AM jthornton: hey xx
05:20 AM RyanS: cockadoodledoo
05:21 AM jthornton: not yet Henry is too young to crow
05:21 AM RyanS: cockadoodledont
05:29 AM miss0r: I seriously have a suspicious amount of extra screws'n bolts left after this mill assembly... :S
05:29 AM XXCoder: if I was evil owner of factory
05:30 AM XXCoder: I would add random cheap extra bolts and stuff and list "no extra bolts and such"
05:30 AM miss0r: I replaced some along the way, not throwing out the original. But i'm pretty sure i didn't replace _THIS_MANY_
05:30 AM XXCoder: so buyers get worried they missed something
05:30 AM miss0r: lol
05:31 AM RyanS: ikea furniture extra bolts
05:31 AM archivist: when stuff falls off you find out
05:32 AM XXCoder: ikea is pretty good
05:34 AM jthornton: damn chicken door just failed, it turned the light off and started closing the door
05:40 AM miss0r: didn't you make that one yourself?
05:41 AM gloops: nice 6 metre bed mill at Goole on ebay
05:41 AM gloops: £6000
05:42 AM miss0r: 1000/meter is a good price :)
05:42 AM gloops: would say so yeah
05:43 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Butler-Elgamill-CS10-6-Metre-Universal-Bedtype-Milling-Machine-/202072991414?
05:43 AM gloops: really poor photos though
05:44 AM gloops: http://www.machinery-locator.com/for-sale/74424/BUTLER-Model-CS10-Elgamill-with-6metre-bed
05:46 AM archivist: you can machine your house square with that
05:46 AM gloops: well, you could make beds for 5 metre machines
05:48 AM archivist: but some remodelling of the shed needed http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dads_Shed.JPG
05:48 AM gloops: 15 tonne
05:48 AM gloops: is that your place archivist?
05:49 AM miss0r: he wishes
05:49 AM miss0r: so do i
05:49 AM archivist: I wish, its a picture found/stolen off internet
05:50 AM archivist: see JT for that size sheds :)
05:50 AM gloops: can only get 4 metres in my van or id have gone for a look
05:50 AM archivist: gloops, likely it splits
05:51 AM gloops: you think me and our lass can get a section between us?
05:51 AM RyanS: just replace the entire property with shed, sleep on bed mill
05:52 AM gloops: could just have it on the garden with a roof ever it
05:54 AM sync: yeah it seems that it use different sections you put in a foundation
05:54 AM gloops: some cheap tackle about - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CINCINNATI-Milling-Machine-Three-phase-router-lathe-drill/263252679035?
05:55 AM gloops: cost more than that for ally sections to make a router
05:57 AM RyanS: shipping to australia?
05:57 AM RyanS: lol
05:57 AM gloops: cheaper if you buy 3
05:59 AM enleth: gloops: you don't put that in a van, you put dollies and a hitch underneath and go
06:00 AM enleth: at least for a short distance
06:00 AM gloops: enleth could get half in van and back end on trailer
06:00 AM gloops: so long as i dont go round any bends
06:01 AM enleth: besides, that has to be one tough motherfucker of a van to be able to handle it
06:01 AM enleth: this thing's got to be a couple tons
06:01 AM gloops: oh the small mill, - farmer would lift that straight up with his tractor, straight onto flat bed pick up
06:02 AM enleth: where I live, you don't call something a "van" if it takes more than 3 tons or so safely
06:03 AM gloops: yeah would need a small lorry or truck
06:03 AM archivist: gloops, more shed sized http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-horizontal-milling-machine/302483226671
06:04 AM gloops: no bids? why?
06:04 AM archivist: title mismatch probably
06:04 AM enleth: archivist: interesting, someone apparently has been using it for a long time while being unaware that it's a vertical mill, not a horizontal
06:05 AM gloops: that would be worth buying just to sell
06:05 AM gloops: if it stays at that price
06:06 AM enleth: heh, if it were local to me, I'd be happy to buy it, clean it up and sell for even more than just re-selling right away
06:07 AM gloops: single phase - ideal for the garage workshop
06:07 AM enleth: that's got to be 2-3 weekends to clean up, replace a couple clapped out bearings and readjust
06:07 AM archivist: I wish I had a flatbed to go fetch
06:07 AM gloops: too far for me
06:08 AM archivist: its just down the road!
06:08 AM enleth: archivist: I'd rent, can't be that expensive
06:08 AM gloops: shaftsbury thats london?
06:08 AM archivist: my little lathe came from inverness
06:09 AM gloops: dorset
06:09 AM gloops: dorset!!
06:09 AM archivist: one makes a long weekend to fetch some toys
06:10 AM gloops: can hire a van for £50, 100 diesel, hmm still cheap
06:12 AM gloops: you often see that though, stuff miles away in the sticks going for nothing, would be worth trying to co-ordinate a few purchases then collect all in one go, bring them back up north
06:12 AM gloops: reverse of what they do with antiques
06:24 AM jthornton: I guess it's time to upgrade from an ardweeny to a raspberry or blueberry thing
06:32 AM tier: index LUSERS
06:47 AM gloops_: Ryan ive just tried some tests on my Y axis, there is a very cheap way to get speed - ive got endless chain on the Y - 58m/min lol thats the max before i get joint following error
06:56 AM sync: direct drive is fast but has issues with stiffness and positioning error
06:58 AM gloops_: actually scrub 58, missing steps like mad
07:02 AM RyanS: endless chain ?
07:04 AM gloops_: yes like on a bike
07:04 AM gloops_: see if i can upload this
07:09 AM gloops_: 13m/min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXP6g_nk8fA&feature=youtu.be
07:10 AM gloops_: this was only a prototype haha, actually it would make a plasma
07:15 AM RyanS: video no worky
07:17 AM gloops_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXP6g_nk8fA&feature=youtu.be
07:23 AM RyanS: interesting
07:25 AM RyanS: bedtime
07:26 AM archivist: sammich time!
07:54 AM ter123: Hey Guys, i would like to build a top of the line realtime LinuxCNC Computer with preempt-rt kernel. Are there some limitation to the system? Like the Hyperthreading and multithreading of the new intel processors?
08:00 AM archivist: to me "top of the line" just means paying through the nose for the same old junk often, you need a hardware and bios that gives good latency numbers
08:04 AM miss0r: Just when you think you have everything cleaned off properly, you grap a part that is still filled with the nasty little hardened chips that just dig into your skin at odd angles... *sigh*.
08:05 AM archivist: stereo microscope and scalpel :)
08:05 AM archivist: and watchmakers tweezers
08:06 AM miss0r: yeah. I just use a LED loupe x10 and tweezers ;)
08:07 AM miss0r: there were cought in the exposed threads of an m12 bolt, that I just took a cloth to, and turned it inside my hand. then all the small chips rised up through the cloth and embedded themselfs in my hand :-/
08:08 AM miss0r: anyway. Now its time to do the first test cut, and see if this extensive repair has worked
08:10 AM ter123: so how do i know which hardware and bios gives good latency numbers? Is it ok to build a 64bit system or are there some limitations? I have checked out the wiki but i couldn't find anything helpful in this direction. Although i have found the latency-test library, but it is really old hardware
08:20 AM IchGucksLive: hi all its a wonderfull day in germany
08:21 AM IchGucksLive: ter123: its mainly the mashine that hints instred of the pc
08:22 AM MrSunshine: hopefully this tool does not already exist =) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgcaQwdg2Y8&feature=youtu.be
08:22 AM MrSunshine: quite nice little tool for fusion360 =)
08:27 AM IchGucksLive: hi yawniek
08:28 AM yawniek: hi
08:35 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: your chain needs some oil
08:36 AM gloops: haha its ok at normal speeds
08:36 AM IchGucksLive: <10m/min
08:37 AM IchGucksLive: what is your main cutspeed
08:37 AM gloops: 2 is ok
08:37 AM gloops: this machine is to be replaced by a far superior model anyway
08:37 AM IchGucksLive: keep it as for the real live
08:37 AM gloops: i might keep it though for a plasma it would probably be ok for that
08:38 AM IchGucksLive: agree on hevy stuff 10mm#
08:38 AM IchGucksLive: im off later
08:39 AM gloops: will have 6 ballscrews and new bearing rails for the new one
08:40 AM gloops: one issue with the chinese kits - they sell a 1350mm screw with 1350mm rails - you cant get the 1350 travel out of the screw at that
08:44 AM Tom_itx: gloops, http://bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
08:44 AM Tom_itx: you might like that
08:44 AM Tom_itx: click on 'how it works'
08:46 AM gloops: thats how to do it with belt Tom, but how much for that system?
08:47 AM Tom_itx: you see how it works, make one
08:48 AM gloops: easy enough to make, but these speeds are only good for some applications
08:48 AM miss0r: yay! The withness marks on x- and y direction change are gone!
08:49 AM miss0r: I just did a 19mm hole with helical drill using a 10mm carbide endmill. It came out only 0.004mm out of round. I'm quite pleased with that
08:49 AM miss0r: In mild steel
08:50 AM gloops: scary good
08:50 AM Tom_itx: how's the hole look around the quadrant changes?
08:51 AM miss0r: tom_itx: thoes are the withness marks I was talking about. I can't see anything
08:51 AM Tom_itx: nice
08:51 AM miss0r: I've had some serious issues with thoes before. This CNC technician is a wizard!
08:52 AM enleth: miss0r: what was the source of the backlash?
08:53 AM enleth: MrSunshine: bookmarked, will use, thanks for posting this
08:53 AM miss0r: enleth: On the linear sliders of this mill, theres cast a substance of some sort. That surface had grown a few 1/100mm. That clamped tidiculously hard, in turn wearing down the ballnuts.
08:54 AM enleth: interesting
08:54 AM enleth: miss0r: is it green/teal?
08:54 AM miss0r: So he scraped the cast surface of the sliders and reballed the ballnuts to an oversize ball
08:54 AM miss0r: its black
08:55 AM miss0r: alot harder than cast iron, acording to the technician
08:55 AM enleth: interesting
08:55 AM miss0r: apparently its hard enough to wear down the carbide scrapers very quickly. He swapped those out 3 or 4 times during this scraping (not alot of scraping)
08:56 AM enleth: do you have somewhere to chip off a piece to do spark tests and/or flame tests?
08:56 AM miss0r: I don't :) its not metallic anyway
08:56 AM enleth: there aren't many castable materials that can stand up to carbide
08:57 AM miss0r: indeed. It can't realy 'stand up to' :) it just wears it quickly
08:57 AM miss0r: I have a picture of the X-carriage, where you can see it. I'll upload, 2 sec
08:57 AM enleth: could be some kind of reinforced epoxy
08:58 AM gloops: did he use something like this miss0r - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NGEQFJdmo4
08:58 AM enleth: but why wouldn't they just use turcite or something like it?
08:58 AM miss0r: nope. he used one of thoes handheld biax type scrapers.
08:59 AM miss0r: not on the ways thou. This material was only on the moving sliders.
09:00 AM miss0r: This is the best picture I seem to have of it: http://picpaste.com/pics/IMG_20171009_203145-iFj8hcjj.1508074116.jpg
09:00 AM miss0r: You can see it on the surface facing up in the picture(Bottom of frame)
09:01 AM miss0r: A friend of mine has a short video of the scraping being done - I can get him to send it to me, if you are interrested?
09:01 AM enleth: wait, is that surface even supposed to touch the other part?
09:02 AM miss0r: not the one closest to the camera
09:02 AM miss0r: the two surfaces in the bottom of the picture
09:03 AM miss0r: its actualy only the surface facing up that has that coating
09:03 AM miss0r: Am I making sense?
09:05 AM enleth: more than whoever designed that, for sure
09:06 AM miss0r: Also, that part is upside down :)
09:08 AM miss0r: enleth: it looks like this http://picpaste.com/ways-U6kn0N6m.png the black parts are the slideways on the mill. the red part is the carriage.
09:25 AM gloops: i heard you can make a plasma torch with a microwave oven
09:27 AM archivist: is that a safe one or what
09:28 AM gloops: safer than a hairdryer
09:40 AM Jymmm: https://i.imgur.com/rOkjRtab.jpg
09:41 AM Jymmm: gloops: not really =)
09:42 AM gloops: cant really see Jymmm small pic, wood carvings or laser?
09:45 AM Jymmm: Bah sorry bout that... https://imgur.com/a/FBHA7
09:45 AM gloops: how you doing that?
09:46 AM Jymmm: microwave plasma cutter of course ;)
09:46 AM gloops: really? lol
09:47 AM gloops: i thought that was by design looks like trees or roots - but closer look - looks like lightning
09:47 AM Jymmm: Well, sorta, kinda, the xmfr in a microwave is about 5000 volts once modified.
09:48 AM Jymmm: so no, NOT safe =)
09:49 AM Jymmm: especially when it starts to draw 20A =)
09:49 AM gloops: yes probably not a project for a layman
09:49 AM Jymmm: Just have to be respectful
09:49 AM gloops: what do you need for a cnc plasma then - one of these 40-50 amp sets on ebay do it?
09:49 AM Jymmm: VERY respectful, and keep one hand behind your back AT ALL TIMES =)
09:51 AM gloops: is that so youll still have one hand left when the other gets burnt off?
09:52 AM Jymmm: No, it's so you don't go into cardiac arrest
09:53 AM gloops: that lighning effect is good though, that has artistic uses
10:06 AM archivist: or autistic
10:10 AM IchGucksLive: hi
10:16 AM gloops: hi Ichs
10:17 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
10:38 AM gloops: you can make some good stuff with these plasma tables
10:38 AM gloops: http://steelingbydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/elk_clock.jpg
10:50 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: why that crap deer
10:53 AM gloops: lol, just some decent detail there, there are some really good artistic things when you look, as well as practical things
11:22 AM IchGucksLive: later
12:06 PM JT-Shop: only 165 parts left to machine today
12:09 PM Deejay: move feed override to maximum
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:32 PM JT-Shop: hmm out of green things and need to revert the chicken door back to a timer as I think the RPC took a dump
12:32 PM JT-Shop: so the best thing is to take a nap
12:33 PM MrSunshine: phew hunted a frekkin bug for 3 hours now .. finaly found the answer! =)
12:35 PM MrSunshine: god i hate socket programming :P
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: MrSunshine: what is socket programming
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: internet socket ?
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_(Software)
01:08 PM Magnifikus: no im trying to programm my wall socket
01:11 PM MrSunshine: IchGucksLive, tcp/ip
01:11 PM MrSunshine: sending data
01:11 PM MrSunshine: need to reboot computer .. mousepad has borked :/
01:18 PM MrSunshine: got my fusion addon to send md5 code to the nc computer now, to error check the file sent .. server wont load the file to axis if md5 sum doesnt match =)
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5yEMsDxR8 hydroforming without water
01:25 PM SpeedEvil: Interesting
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: it is usually some liquid or paste
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: maybe he should call it elastomer or rubber forming
01:29 PM sync: using an elastomer is quite common tho
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: elastomer membrane with some fluid under pressure behind it
01:38 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:56 PM * SpeedEvil wishes explosive forming was easier.
01:59 PM syyl: so, your hardwarestore does not carry dynacord? ;)
02:06 PM Jymmm: syyl: No, but walmart does
02:07 PM syyl: srsly?
02:07 PM Jymmm: fuck no =)
02:07 PM syyl: hey, european here. we belive that you can get explosives in the us at every cornerstore ;)
02:08 PM Jymmm: hahaha, I wish. I have to pay for shipping, and hazmat fees are EXPENSIVE!!!
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: syyl: if you have some understanding of chemistry then yes
02:12 PM syyl: haha
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: most people here now think that explosives are only liquids
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: liquids = scary
02:15 PM Jymmm: Hell, people underestiamte the scariness of just safety fuse.
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's funny in China, they put all kinds of crap into food, toys, clothing etc
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: yet it's nearly impossible to buy things like IPA or solvents at hardware stores or pharmacies
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: if you have a firearms license can you purchase nitrocellulose powder?
02:27 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: I'm not sure if a FFA will allow you to, but a explosives license will, $200/year. not hard to get.
02:29 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: https://www.atf.gov/explosives/qa/what-type-explosives-licenses-are-available
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: Some indicators that a device may be an illegal explosive are:
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: It is sold on the street or out of the back of someone's vehicle.
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.atf.gov/explosives/fireworks
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: It is red, silver, or brown in color. - What color are legal explosives?
02:33 PM Jymmm: Model rocket engine sold at toys r us ---> It consists of a cardboard tube or oddly shaped item wrapped in brown paper and filled with an explosive material.
02:36 PM jthornton: this should be so easy, why is it so hard?
02:37 PM hazzy: Here (Georgia, US) if you have a current business licence you can buy pretty much any chemicals you want, explosive or otherwise. That has come in handy. If you don't have a licence, forget it
02:38 PM hazzy: Basically, if you pay your taxes, you can buy what you want
02:56 PM Jymmm: Not in Kommifornia, I have to smuggle across the (state) border MEK of all things
02:56 PM Jymmm: greater than 2oz
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: is acetone exempt?
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: in most places congress has decreed that acetone is low VOC
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: they over ruled physics
02:58 PM HighInBC: you can find acetone in an over ripe banana
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: why does it hide there?
02:59 PM HighInBC: because nobody ever gave it another home
02:59 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: it is (atm), but naphtha is not if it's labeled as such, althought "Coleman Fuel" is fine, which is the same thing with rust inhibitors in it, as is "charcoal lighter fluid -shrug-
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: it depends on who lobbied for exemptions
03:00 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: IMO, CAS# is CAS#
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: http://ask.metafilter.com/64388/The-Great-Banana-Mystery
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: another mystery of the universe is solved!
03:14 PM jthornton: finally after adding a debounce component to the inputs the door is working...
03:30 PM HighInBC: those bounces will get you
03:35 PM jthornton: yea and the debounce library has been superseded by bounce which has been superseded by bounce2 lol
03:37 PM Jymmm: jthornton: superseded by... https://youtu.be/cI1A405jBqg?t=32
03:39 PM * jthornton doesn't look at videos during the pay time
03:40 PM jthornton: or more correctly metered time
03:40 PM Jymmm: jthornton: wiat til 2am, toss it on the queue
03:40 PM Jymmm: wait*
03:43 PM jthornton: free time is 4am to 8am
03:43 PM Jymmm: well, shit, I can't keep up with your free time, tos it on you automagically down load when free queue
03:47 PM JT-Shop: tos?
03:48 PM Jymmm: toss*
03:51 PM JT-Shop: I don't have anything set up to do that
03:52 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7WmUXtizEA total hogwash
03:52 PM Jymmm: rsync + cron ?
03:53 PM JT-Shop: I've heard of both of them
03:54 PM Jymmm: cron schedules jobs to run
03:54 PM XXCoder: and rsync gets sync' musicians to sing at your place
03:54 PM Jymmm: rsync can grab/send/sync files and not duplicate them either.
03:55 PM Jymmm: same machine, or across the interwevz
03:55 PM Jymmm: interwebz*
03:57 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: rsync is the 2nd best nix utility, just after ssh
03:59 PM XXCoder: ssh is god
04:00 PM XXCoder: I used to use ssh so much
04:00 PM jthornton: I use ssh to work on the camera server
04:24 PM Deejay: gn8
04:31 PM jthornton: night
04:33 PM Loetmichel: https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/843554.html <- ouch. Getting thirsty that replacement engine. i should REALLY look for the source of the fuel smell under the hood... i think the leak is getting worse... :-(
04:34 PM gloops: white elephant Loet
04:34 PM Loetmichel: ?
04:34 PM gloops: your car
04:35 PM Loetmichel: dont get the reference, sorry
04:36 PM gloops: oh, white elephant, in india it used to be a custom among the nobles to give lavish gifts, but when an elephant was gifted it wasnt a sign of generosity, elephants were very expensive to keep, useless things
04:36 PM gloops: more of an insult
04:38 PM gloops: A white elephant is a possession which its owner cannot dispose of and whose cost, particularly that of maintenance, is out of proportion to its usefulness. In modern usage, it is an object, building project, scheme, business venture, facility, etc., considered expensive but without use or value.[
04:40 PM Loetmichel: ah
04:41 PM Loetmichel: no, its a hobby/"fun" car
04:41 PM Loetmichel: its SUPPOSED to cost money for nothing
04:42 PM gloops: you think this car increases your chances haha
04:42 PM Loetmichel: for commuting to work i have another one... https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/442560.html <- not really up to date here with the fuel bills though.
04:42 PM gloops: dont see opels here anymore
04:42 PM Loetmichel: chances? with women? not at all, i am happily married. its just fun to drive open when the weather is nice. and its RWD so its lots of fun to drift.
04:43 PM gloops: well cant argue with that
04:44 PM Loetmichel: and to be honest: apart from that "engine threw a rod" blunder its actually pretty cheap to maintain.
04:45 PM gloops: they are nice cars bmwers
04:45 PM Loetmichel: the opel is also old though
04:46 PM Loetmichel: AND has a 2.5 liter 6cyl bmw diesel and transmission in it
04:46 PM sync: and was sold in the US
04:46 PM Loetmichel: seems opel couldnt find a suitable diesel back in 2003 and simply bought one from BMW ;)
04:46 PM gloops: is that company still going? not seen an opel for years
04:46 PM Loetmichel: it is
04:47 PM Loetmichel: as of now
04:47 PM Loetmichel: next year: who knows...
04:47 PM gloops: hmm
04:47 PM Loetmichel: it was just bought by a the french PSA group last year
04:47 PM Loetmichel: ahem this year
04:47 PM gloops: fewer and fewer bigger and bigger corps
04:51 PM gloops: well, bedtime here
04:58 PM BeachBumPete: https://imgur.com/a/vyI16 :O
05:02 PM Loetmichel: BeachBumPete: looks a bit like an ariel atom without the trim
05:02 PM Loetmichel: and one wheel missing
05:05 PM sync: hm, that thing probably has no roof strength, but it also has no seatbelt so it probably is fine
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: seen the new Blade Runner yet?
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: looks loud
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: the trike
05:13 PM BeachBumPete: I think that thing looks AMAZING
05:13 PM BeachBumPete: in fact I am just now tooling up to try to build something similar
05:13 PM BeachBumPete: I am ordering a tubing bender now and already have a tube roller and the tig and all the rest of the stuff I need
05:15 PM BeachBumPete: sync I kinda agree on the roof strength but that could be remedied rather easily I think
05:15 PM jthornton: which bender are you getting?
05:15 PM BeachBumPete: just one of the hossfeld clones
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: more bigger tubes
05:16 PM BeachBumPete: I honestly just think more tubes most likely right behind the seats with a bit more vertical support
05:16 PM sync: yeah a single cross bar in the roof would help, but it also needs a tube behind the seats
05:17 PM sync: also a harness bar behind there
05:17 PM BeachBumPete: honestly I think the design is VERY slick overall
05:17 PM jthornton: I got one of these from a guy in Ark for not much https://www.huthbenders.com/products/benders/huth/huth-hb-10-bender/
05:17 PM sync: and some gussets along the neutral axis
05:18 PM BeachBumPete: Woah that is a serious machine JT
05:18 PM jthornton: now why is my light not going off after 5 minutes...
05:18 PM jthornton: yea it even had some square tubing dies
05:18 PM BeachBumPete: yeah this one I am looking at takes square dies as well
05:18 PM BeachBumPete: up to 2:
05:19 PM jthornton: we built a log arch for my neighbor with it http://gnipsel.com/images/log-arch/
05:19 PM jthornton: one of those ratchet kind?
05:20 PM BeachBumPete: man if I had that hydro one I would be building all sorts of shit LOL
05:20 PM BeachBumPete: yeah its a ratchet kind but I plan to convert to Air/Hydro
05:20 PM jthornton: yea it's a beast for sure and very heavy
05:21 PM sync: looks like a neat unit, but I don't really like the die type benders
05:22 PM BeachBumPete: I am looking at the Pro tools model
05:22 PM sync: for roll cages they are fine, but I had to do a lot of 316/inconel bending
05:22 PM sync: really started to like a mandrel bender for that
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/i/182793380959 like this?
05:22 PM BeachBumPete: yeah but that is the hydro one
05:22 PM jthornton: I guess so if you can afford a mandrel bender lol
05:24 PM kraegar is now known as kraegar_away
05:24 PM sync: well, for .8mm inconel tubing there is no other way
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mittler-Brothers-90-Hydraulic-Tube-and-Pipe-Bender-Model-900/171135771351
05:25 PM sync: or even thinner in later iterations
05:26 PM sync: jthornton: ime they are not that much more expensive as a bare machine, if one has a cnc lathe the mandrels are also quite easy to make
05:26 PM sync: the only thing that sucks to engineer is the wiper die
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: I come across used mandrel benders from exhaust shops
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: but they are maybe for 2.5" max (~60mm)
05:29 PM jthornton: I've never seen an exhaust shop use a mandrel bender
05:29 PM BeachBumPete: I have no plans to bend anything exotic. I just need to be able to bend 1.5 and 1" tube and roll the larger radii
05:29 PM sync: yeah, I made exhausts with the mandrel bender
05:30 PM sync: I think the last one was .6mm inconel
05:30 PM sync: really annoying to work with
05:30 PM BeachBumPete: the plan right now is to use the same vette C4 arms and suspension/hubs as that last one I posted about.
05:30 PM BeachBumPete: Personally I am a HUGE fan of the beautiful CNC machined swingarm pieces he built.
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: that reminds me, it would be nice if there was some reverse engineered listing of auto parts dimensions
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: not just cross reference
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: at least for brakes, steering and suspension
05:33 PM BeachBumPete: brakes and clutch I plan to use the kits from wildwood
05:33 PM BeachBumPete: the good news is this is nothing new its been done many times arleady by quite a few different folks
05:34 PM sync: I wonder why people sometimes think they are upgrading their honda or whatever when they put in suspension parts machined from blocks, it is suprising how many details you have to look at to get suspension pieces right if they are not made out of steel
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: $260K really? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baileigh-Mandrel-Pipe-Bender-MB-100-CNC-/252377400465
05:35 PM sync: or of people swap cast/forged alloy parts for machined ones
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: this could be a good LCNC project
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: well working on cars is still one of the biggest wastes of money and time
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: you have to try and sell a few when you're done to really know
05:37 PM sync: CaptHindsight: yeah, an archive of 3d models would be nice, but that is not happening
05:38 PM sync: I usually just 3d scan stuff now
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: so unless you just like to drive it...
05:50 PM Jymmm: sync: 3d scan how?
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: 3d scanner :)
05:51 PM * Jymmm tosses CaptHindsight in the fax machine to 1D scan him
05:51 PM Jymmm: ...at 9600 BAUD
05:52 PM Jymmm: Darn it, it's taking FOREVER to charge these battereis =( I want to toss on the one I repaired!
05:52 PM Jymmm: (18650's)
05:53 PM sync: Jymmm: hexagon 7 axis arm + laser line probe
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: sometimes the universe is just against you
05:53 PM Jymmm: sync: ah
05:54 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: I'd much rather just break the law of physics instead
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: battery died in a car we had sitting for a few months, stuck at 3.6V won't charge
05:56 PM Tom_itx: shorted cell
05:56 PM Jymmm: lead acid battery?
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: yes and yes
05:57 PM Jymmm: you could try reviving it
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: have an fancy schmancy charger/reconditioner
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: no luck
05:58 PM Tom_itx: batteries have gone up considerablly in the last few years
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: not sure what is good anymore
05:58 PM Tom_itx: i think the plates are thinner now too
05:58 PM Jymmm: cawell, it's good for $7 at least
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: Optima used to be good
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: maybe http://4xspower.com/shop/product-category/12v-agm/
06:13 PM sync: I used to run a lipo
06:13 PM sync: worked well for 4 years, need to order a new one now
06:14 PM yawniek: anyone has experience with berger lahr TLC controllers?
09:19 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: try get diehard battery charger
09:19 PM XXCoder: it might recover battery. might.
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: I have a recovery type charger. Didn't work.
09:26 PM XXCoder: too bad :( sometimes battery just die when it reaches zero point
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: car sat inside with heat for 8 months
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: probably 5 months without a trickle charge
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: it did take a charge once for maybe 30 minutes but after the car started never again
11:25 PM MrHindsight: unwrapped a 30 x 40 cm ChinaCo router/mill
11:26 PM MrHindsight: 40 thou lash
11:26 PM MrHindsight: and the cable jackets are stripped about 1cm past the grip on the connector
11:26 PM MrHindsight: i guess the strain reliefs are there just for looks
11:27 PM MrHindsight: goddah love the Chinese
11:27 PM hazzy: Do you think their QC dep might be understaffed?
11:28 PM hazzy: or on vacation?
11:28 PM hazzy: :D
11:28 PM hazzy: Sorry to hear, that is disappointing
11:31 PM MrHindsight: these models don't have nuts on the ends of the ballscrews for setting the preload
11:32 PM MrHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/2TYvESEACWSs
11:32 PM MrHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/2aq3eWhTxbGY
11:33 PM MrHindsight: takes a couple of days to rebuild https://imagebin.ca/v/2apzmk7rpwvC
11:33 PM hazzy: Is the lash in the nuts or in the end bearings?
11:33 PM MrHindsight: ends
11:33 PM MrHindsight: also comes with red oxide treated fasteners :) https://imagebin.ca/v/2aq2qZUtbOIM
11:34 PM hazzy: Ok, that is good i guess, easier to fix at least
11:34 PM hazzy: heh
11:34 PM MrHindsight: have to shim them
11:34 PM nullifier: Evenin' all. Is there a printer parts trading forum/page/site that's popular?
11:34 PM MrHindsight: the red must be lower cost than the black oxide
11:34 PM MrHindsight: nullifier: printer parts?
11:35 PM nullifier: cnc
11:35 PM MrHindsight: cnczone
11:37 PM MrHindsight: https://www.3dhubs.com/talk/For-Sale
11:38 PM MrHindsight: http://www.3dprinterclassifieds.com/
11:41 PM evilroot: What are you looking for?
11:41 PM evilroot: Or selling?
11:47 PM ve7it: MrHindsight, looks like a solid frame system.... what was the cost if I may ask?
11:48 PM nullifier: I have a whole bunch of RW27 carriages but no rails, and 4 100 amp servo amps that I really only need 2 of
11:49 PM nullifier: and 16 RW35 carriages w/out rails
11:49 PM MrHindsight: ve7it: ~$700 usd, a couple years ago, got a few in crates
11:50 PM nullifier: I'd like a good mesa card, and a VFD/spindle would be nice
11:50 PM ve7it: looks like it would nice to add proper thrust bearings on one end of screws.... seems like all its using is the stepper bearings
11:51 PM MrHindsight: ve7it: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl-3040-cnc-router/
11:51 PM MrHindsight: this new one looks like it can set the preload
11:51 PM nullifier: Also a whole bunch of Lutze superflex CY-1 which is oldskool flex cable
11:51 PM MrHindsight: via nuts on the ballscrew ends
11:52 PM evilroot: Yeah, that should do well
11:52 PM evilroot: There's also a buy and sell DIY CNC Facebook group
11:52 PM MrHindsight: ebay
11:52 PM nullifier: Too many fees
11:53 PM evilroot: https://www.facebook.com/groups/236189296909212/
11:53 PM MrHindsight: ve7it: came with skate bearings
11:53 PM nullifier: thanks evilroot
11:53 PM evilroot: Also too much bullshit
11:53 PM MrHindsight: aint nuthin
11:53 PM evilroot: Plus PayPal holdinf funds
11:53 PM evilroot: Ugh
11:54 PM evilroot: I would have made a lot more $ selling my robots on eBay, even parting them out
11:54 PM nullifier: it looks like someone else had the same issue I am having w/ these amps... about 7 years ago on CNCzone
11:54 PM evilroot: But damned if I will deal with that crap
11:54 PM evilroot: Which amps are those?
11:55 PM nullifier: Sanyo Denki PY0A100EXXYPH1
11:55 PM MrHindsight: ve7it: it's not that rigid, you can flex the gantry with normal human arms
11:55 PM evilroot: Sure you typed that right?
11:55 PM nullifier: you can find them on artisanTG... but even though they're selling them, they have the wrong manual up (it's for a type A, H, not A, E)
11:55 PM evilroot: 0 results
11:55 PM nullifier: oh missing a part lol
11:56 PM nullifier: PY0A100E0XXYPH1
11:56 PM evilroot: "skate bearings"
11:56 PM nullifier: Wow... 1 digit off
11:56 PM evilroot: LM8UU?
11:56 PM MrHindsight: ve7it: I use them for non contact applications
11:56 PM MrHindsight: or light contact
11:57 PM nullifier: https://www.artisantg.com/PLC/66935-4/Sanyo_Denki_PY0A100E0XXYPH1_Servo_Amplifier
11:57 PM evilroot: Old school
11:57 PM nullifier: Yeah huge IGBTs on them
11:57 PM evilroot: 220AC
11:57 PM nullifier: 200 or 220... which is magic!
11:57 PM nullifier: Invent-A-Phase
11:57 PM MrHindsight: dispensing https://ibin.co/2aq0JWfJZfXK.jpg
11:57 PM evilroot: Well there's not much difference practically
11:58 PM nullifier: I know, it just seems like... it would only take 3ph to make 3ph
11:58 PM evilroot: Not talking digital, heh
11:58 PM nullifier: but it's doing a huge DC rectify first, ya?
11:58 PM nullifier: several hundred amps worth
11:59 PM nullifier: AC rectify to LV DC
11:59 PM evilroot: Rectifying is very simple
11:59 PM nullifier: Even at that scale?
11:59 PM evilroot: Yes
11:59 PM nullifier: Shows h ow much I know