#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 06 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:37 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany after a deadly storm hits 8 persons lost there life
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: FabLab: schon fleisig am arbeiten
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: off 2 build some postal cases monogramms for coustomers no school its holiday
02:39 AM Deejay: moin
03:00 AM Daniel-2818: Hello
03:14 AM Daniel-2818: I wanted to ask for your opinion on a possibke hardware design Im planning to control with linuxcnc. The problem is, that I want to have two spindles for one axis. I see 4 options: 1. Belt connection 2. Two motir on one driver 3. Two drivers on one parport pinset 4. "Software slaving" axes.
03:21 AM archivist: are you just making duplicate items
03:23 AM archivist: and, are you tapping holes
03:24 AM Daniel-2818: Are you talking to me?
03:26 AM slipalong: One motor driving 2 spindles via toothed belt would work if you need to do Spindle synchronised operations like tapping I guess.
03:28 AM archivist: what you want to do forces design decisions
03:33 AM Daniel-2818: No, I dont want to do tapping. I think I should have told you, that this will be a router.
03:36 AM Daniel-2818: Sry. I think I also used the wrong term. Not spindle but ballscrew.
03:37 AM archivist: very different :)
03:37 AM archivist: linuxcnc does know how to keep gantry slaved and square
03:38 AM archivist: there is gantrykins for that
03:38 AM archivist: or belt the pair to one motor
03:40 AM Daniel-2818: So you would prefer either software or belt solution. Using cheap drivers, the software solution is probably the cheaper solution.
03:42 AM archivist: with two drivers and two home switches linuxcnc can home and square the gantry,
03:52 AM Daniel-2818: Ok. That is valuable information with the keyword gantrykins, I now found something on google. Thanks a lot!
03:54 AM Daniel-2818: What do you think about using one ballscrew, that is on one side of the portal? (Right term?)
04:01 AM Daniel-2818: Gantry not portal.
04:07 AM archivist: then you get some twist, many put it underneath
04:08 AM archivist: in the middle with linkage two bothe sides
04:14 AM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
04:15 AM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: still here
04:17 AM Daniel-2818: Still here.
04:18 AM IchGucksLive: hi im in germany what is the mashine for you are planing
04:19 AM Daniel-2818: 2000x500x150mm
04:19 AM IchGucksLive: and what are the expected mesurments in workarea
04:19 AM IchGucksLive: on a 500mm Y axis no need for gantry
04:19 AM IchGucksLive: why that small
04:20 AM IchGucksLive: comen plasmas are 2100x1280 x100
04:20 AM IchGucksLive: on 500 y you dont need the gantry
04:21 AM IchGucksLive: use a rack pinion setup
04:22 AM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: ?
04:25 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off need to do somthing Daniel-2818 my video channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
04:47 AM Daniel-2818: Mainly woodworks. No high accurcy, but high speed.
04:47 AM Daniel-2818: What is a rack pinion setup?
04:53 AM archivist: rack has a bit of backlash often, which can show up as errors in the work
04:55 AM Daniel-2818: Ok. Now I understand.
04:55 AM Daniel-2818: But I dont like the idea of backlsh.
04:55 AM archivist: where speed is important, either power(rotate) a nut on a screw or use rack and pinion
04:56 AM archivist: you can get whip on long screws at high speed
05:14 AM jthornton: morning
05:16 AM jthornton: there are some clever belt drives that solve the belt stretch issue
05:28 AM FabLab: Daniel-2818, where u from ?
05:28 AM FabLab: Hi peps
05:28 AM XXCoder: hey single pep
05:29 AM FabLab: fleißig am arbeiten wie jeden tag
05:30 AM FabLab: Daniel-2818, du willst eine Fräse zum Hozbearbeiten bauen ?
05:31 AM FabLab: @all I am Fablab Darmstadt worker :D feel free to visit me
05:33 AM * jthornton has a lot of peeping
05:34 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton missed me?
05:35 AM jthornton: chickens made up for it :)
05:35 AM XXCoder: lol
05:35 AM XXCoder: move was really nasty
05:35 AM XXCoder: 6 days of 10-14 hours moving stuff or doing stuff
05:36 AM jthornton: you moved to a new place?
05:36 AM XXCoder: yah
05:37 AM jthornton: cool, no more electrical and other issues?
05:37 AM XXCoder: 5 wll plugs this room.
05:37 AM XXCoder: old one my room had 2, and one is dead.
05:38 AM XXCoder: I had to route extension all way to my nephew room so I can have functional alarm clock.
05:38 AM jthornton: in the old place?
05:39 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:39 AM XXCoder: told my nephew to never ever touch that :P thankfully hes away 5 days a week
05:43 AM jthornton: I finally got the chicken coop/run construction done
05:43 AM XXCoder: deaf school is very different\
05:43 AM XXCoder: nice! pics or its just badly done cardboard build. :P
05:44 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens-2/
05:45 AM XXCoder: oh seen those
05:48 AM XXCoder: im offically old.
05:48 AM XXCoder: survey question "40+"
05:49 AM jthornton: lol
05:50 AM XXCoder: I wonder what would happen say 10,000 years after immortality effect on survey ages would be
05:50 AM XXCoder: because 40+ is hardly detailed as probably 90% would answer that.
05:52 AM jthornton: wait till your in your 60's
05:53 AM jthornton: damn camera software is in a rar file lol and windblows can't even open it
05:53 AM XXCoder: 7zip
05:53 AM XXCoder: in least, probably still good. been years
05:54 AM Daniel-2818: Ok. Do you have a link in those belt drives.
05:54 AM Daniel-2818: ?
05:54 AM jthornton: I just extracted it on this linux pc
05:54 AM Daniel-2818: Munich
05:54 AM XXCoder: ohh linux pc ;)
05:54 AM XXCoder: yeah while its not as polished, its way more flexable.
05:55 AM jthornton: no, it's two belts that fit together I'll see if I can find it
05:59 AM jthornton: https://www.google.com/patents/US20090301237
06:01 AM XXCoder: I wonder how good that is in terms of backlash and so ob
06:02 AM jthornton: supposed to be very good due to the very short active belt length
06:03 AM jthornton: can't seem to find the actual manufacturer web site
06:03 AM MarcelineVQ: that looks a lot nicer than the rack and pinion setup I was thinking about
06:04 AM malcom2073: jthornton: http://www.bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
06:05 AM jthornton: and if by magic there it is :)
06:05 AM malcom2073: I've been meaning to make one of those
06:07 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:07 AM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: bist du noch da
06:07 AM IchGucksLive: FabLab: Darmstadt wie gehts
06:08 AM IchGucksLive: Timingbelt drives in germany is best to go at http://www.maedler.de/product/1643/zahnriemenraeder-zahnriemen-und-zubehoer
06:09 AM XXCoder: hey ich
06:09 AM Daniel-2818: Jaja bin ich. bin bloß in der Arbeit. Ich werd ab ca 18:30 intensiv drin sein.
06:09 AM IchGucksLive: for a Ballscrew SAtepper combination use a 20/25
06:09 AM IchGucksLive: ok dann bin ich auch da Daniel-2818
06:09 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: is wahington still a blaze
06:10 AM XXCoder: nah havent been for while
06:10 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: what are you doing in the middle of the night on a workday
06:10 AM XXCoder: thankfully, the nightmare of a move would be worse with ashy air.
06:10 AM XXCoder: I work 3:15 pm to 1:45 am
06:11 AM IchGucksLive: take a car not working as a US citizen you might be shot
06:11 AM XXCoder: huh
06:11 AM IchGucksLive: beer
06:11 AM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
06:12 AM IchGucksLive: im off heavy downforce outside
06:12 AM XXCoder: water
06:16 AM jthornton: hmmm the SV3C camera runs on linux but the software is windblows
06:17 AM XXCoder: lol
06:17 AM XXCoder: I usually rather use winblows than windblows
06:17 AM XXCoder: because windows blows.
06:18 AM XXCoder: and wind blows by definition ;)
06:19 AM jthornton: lol
06:29 AM Tom_L: morning
06:29 AM XXCoder: hey
06:38 AM Tom_L: http://bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
06:38 AM jthornton: morning Tom
06:40 AM Tom_L: lil late with that i see
08:51 AM FabLab: Tach
08:52 AM slipalong: Anyone made there own covers to protect the ways / screws?
08:53 AM slipalong: Having trouble finding some in the UK
08:53 AM slipalong: Just tried we beer cans but metal to brital
08:55 AM archivist: use camera bellows fold and a rubber/plastic
08:56 AM archivist: or the sliding metal design, no spring involved
08:56 AM archivist: or the "clock" spring tube
08:57 AM archivist: the spring tube is around the screw on my starturn http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_09_10_Starturn_cnc_lathe/P1010035.JPG
09:00 AM archivist: http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/CNC/Bellows/Bellows.htm
09:05 AM tjtr33: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EgLMMhbRfc use your old blue jeans ;-)
09:06 AM archivist: I have had rags get caught in a leadscrew :)
09:12 AM gregcnc_: uk sites also call them concertina covers, aka accordion stateside
09:22 AM tjtr33: https://videobin.org/+mbw/qp6.html sink edm in linuxcnc controlled by hal
09:49 AM slipalong: Just had a go folding with paper. Its a bit of a fiddle but dooable
09:51 AM archivist: I did some folding some years ago when messing about with cameras
09:53 AM slipalong: Ive just got the mill all setup and tested so want to cut some metal now!!
09:53 AM HighInBC: nice
09:54 AM enleth: archivist: is that an EMCO?
09:54 AM HighInBC: I am about 100% sure the weak ass spindle and steppers that came with my CNC will fail on any kind of metal milling
09:54 AM HighInBC: but upgrading that is a project for the winter
09:54 AM archivist: enleth, no a Denford Starturn
09:55 AM enleth: archivist: ... which is probably an EMCO too
09:55 AM enleth: as in EMCO iron
09:55 AM slipalong: It will bo on eBay if its not up to the job. Got to use low speeds and feeds I guess, but you can just leaver it do its thing
09:55 AM enleth: archivist: but yes, I actually meant to ask if it's Denford
09:55 AM archivist: :)
09:56 AM enleth: the bed seems to be lighter than ORAC's
09:56 AM archivist: somewhat smaller than an Orac
09:57 AM enleth: but the whole thing looks like it's been designed by the same person
09:57 AM enleth: based on the iron designed by another same person at EMCO
09:58 AM enleth: other than the lack of a second prism for the tailstock, all the details match
09:58 AM gregcnc_: I don't think its' a Compact 5
09:58 AM archivist: sits on the same prism
10:17 AM JT-Shop: see everyone Sunday afternoon
10:20 AM archivist: you coming to our steaming :)
10:20 AM JT-Shop: if I can find a road that leads me through the worm hole
10:21 AM * Jymmm sends JT-Shop the Tardis
10:21 AM archivist: I should scan the pic of me sitting in the Dr Who car
10:22 AM Jymmm: If anyone knows, was there only ONE Tardis?
10:22 AM Jymmm: archivist: nice =)
10:22 AM archivist: tv props are often "many"
10:22 AM HighInBC: no
10:23 AM HighInBC: you mean props or in world?
10:23 AM Jymmm: archivist: I don't mena literally, but within the storyline
10:23 AM HighInBC: most tardises are not as cool as Dr. Who's
10:23 AM HighInBC: I suppose TARDISes is the correct pluralization
10:23 AM archivist: Tardii
10:24 AM Jymmm: "TARDIS" was an acronym that Susan purportedly devised. Susan defined the acronym with both the singular dimension (TV: "An Unearthly Child") and the plural dimensions. (AUDIO: The Beginning)
10:24 AM Jymmm: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/TARDIS
10:30 AM HighInBC: ya, a latin suffix rule for an acronym does not make sense
11:11 AM Loetmichel: MAAAN, why me? turned "wrong" today. Now i have the feeling i have a little man with a big knife sittin on my back ramming it in right between 3rd and 4th rib right at the spine (pinched nerve). Not the first time that happens... the worst: i will have excuating pain for about 2-3 days, and monday morning will all be well enough to go to work instead of to the doctor... My body seems to be
11:11 AM Loetmichel: employer friendly :-(
11:26 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: Yep, it doens't take any weight to throw out back
11:26 AM Jymmm: ...just the right twisting movement
11:26 AM Loetmichel: exactly
11:27 AM Roguish: Loetmichel: can you bend down and put socks on?
11:27 AM Roguish: it's really a bitch when ya can't even do that.......
11:27 AM Loetmichel: Roguish: sure, i am not disabled, i just have bad back pain
11:27 AM Roguish: been there a few times...
11:28 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: I picked up what I believed to be an "empty" container from in front of me, to place on a shelf to my left. That "EMPTY" contianer was 60lbs of laptops.
11:29 AM Loetmichel: you know the second/third(?) Rambo? "does it hurt?" "You teached us to ignore pain!" "Does it work" "Sometimes" ;)
11:29 AM Roguish: first time i pulled my back was lifting an old monitor (one of the huge crt types) out of the back seat of a car. ended up on my knees next to the car for a few minutes unable to move.........
11:29 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: about 15 minutes later I'm walking out of the building and dropped to my knees. Apparently I blew out a disc.
11:30 AM Roguish: it's not about being disabled, it's about those stilletoes jabbing ya in the back.
11:31 AM Loetmichel: Roguish: i know that feeling all to well
11:31 AM Loetmichel: and its ALWAYS the same spot for me
11:31 AM Loetmichel: seems i have a weak disk there
11:31 AM Loetmichel: but thats what i meant: its just pain. there is noting damaged
11:31 AM Jymmm: It's all soft tissue injury, they can't detect it, and there is nothing they can do for it either.
11:32 AM Loetmichel: you still CAN move. you just dont want to ;)
11:32 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: The BIGEST thing is retraining yourself afterwards to STOP bracing yourself
11:32 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: "I ​suppose nothing hurts you." "Only pain."
11:33 AM Jymmm: MarcelineVQ: ... and what's HER name ;)
11:35 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: easiest way for that: i will have a nice warm bath soon, afterwards my wifle wil place a "bandaid" soaked in diclofenac on back atop the area in question and it will cease to hurt before i can make a habit of bracing for it ;)
11:38 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: You know what DOES work... Lidoderm patches. No meds/narcotics to take, lasts 24 hours (12 hours on, 12 hours off), pricy (apx $7 USD per patch, Rx Only, covered by most insurance) but damn well worth it.
11:39 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: These are NOT those icy/hot patches.
11:40 AM Jymmm: Looks like this http://nationalpainreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/lidodermpatch.jpg
11:40 AM Jymmm: You can cut them, and apply up to three on the body at a time.
11:41 AM Loetmichel: lidocaine is a very stron analgetic. no narcotics? i dont think so
11:41 AM Loetmichel: diclofenac is a muscle/rheumatic pain killer
11:41 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: It's 5%, very effective and no side effects other than periodic mild skin irritation from the adhesive they use.
11:41 AM Loetmichel: and yes, i meant "patches" not really bandaids
11:42 AM Jymmm: Narcotic == addictive, These are not.
11:43 AM Loetmichel: diclofenach isnt addictive either
11:43 AM Loetmichel: its just a different painkiller...
11:43 AM Loetmichel: but if i remember Dr.House correclty lidocaine IS addictive...
11:44 AM Loetmichel: -h
11:44 AM Jymmm: You are basing something on TV Medicine?!
11:45 AM Jymmm: EVERYTHING to him was addictive <rolls eyes>
11:45 AM Loetmichel: its the only source of info about lidocaine i have. its not aviable in germany ;)
11:45 AM Jymmm: Diclofenac is just an NSAID in topical form.
11:47 AM Loetmichel: coreect
11:47 AM Loetmichel: correct
11:48 AM Loetmichel: ah, i stand corrected. Lidocain as patches with 5% is aviable in germany since 2008
11:48 AM Loetmichel: in any other form its still only aviable trhu an MD here
11:48 AM Jymmm: 5% is the common dosage in the USA as well.
11:49 AM Jymmm: See lidocaine was originally a cariac medication, but then found to be a great anesthetic. So as long as you don't have any caridiac conditions, you're fine.
11:50 AM Loetmichel: i dont. wife has tons of the Diclofenac patch stuff though because of her bad hip
11:50 AM Loetmichel: and i know that those patches do their job when i have that little man on my back
11:50 AM Jymmm: Oh, and dont forget you still are wearing it before taking a shower. it gets real gooey and you'll reach abck and go "WHAT THE FUCK?!" lol, but it still peels off easily =)
11:51 AM Loetmichel: so i wil use that instead of going out to buy that lidocain stuff. ;)
11:51 AM Jymmm: just a compeltely weird sensation when you'r enot expecting it =)
11:51 AM Loetmichel: yes, i will take a HOT bath to relax first
11:51 AM Loetmichel: THEN apply the patch ;)
11:51 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: Lidoderm is RX ONLY, you'll need to have a Doctors write you a Rx.
11:52 AM Loetmichel: see, diclofenac isnt. AND already here at home in XXL amounts ;)
11:52 AM Jymmm: If it works for you, then fine. But even when narcotics don't work, and it does, makes a huge difference.
11:53 AM Jymmm: (it = lidoderm)
11:53 AM Jymmm: 24 hours of pain relief is a VERY good thing.
11:53 AM Jymmm: starts working within 20 minutes.
11:54 AM Jymmm: I've even had injections of muscle relaxers, not effective. But lidoderm... I'd highly recommend.
11:55 AM Jymmm: And no, not cortisone shots (steroids), which I don't recommend, it's just easy for doctors to bill insurance companies for.
11:55 AM Loetmichel: i can imagine. thanx for the tip.
11:57 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: I've just "been there, done that", if what you have works, cool. If not, that's all I was trying to say. There is a bunch of fucked up shit and practices out there, trying to save another bastard all that grief and discomfort is all.
11:57 AM Loetmichel: thanx
11:57 AM jdh: cortisone + lidocaine in shoulder "cured" me in 10 mins. lasted for 6 or 8 years
11:58 AM Loetmichel: my wife has a bad hip now for about 11 years. i think we have all painkillers RX or not here, and all are well tested on both of us ;)
11:58 AM Jymmm: Oh, and try acupucture too if it's an option. It's a 50/50 thing. It would AWESOME in one part of my body, and nothing in another spot.
11:58 AM Loetmichel: so we know what to use when ;)
12:00 PM Jymmm: jdh: I'd suspect that the injection allowed your shoulder to be "numb" long enough for it to heal itself. Neither med last in the body longer than apx 3 to 6 months that I'm aware of.
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
12:01 PM jdh: lido was instant. cortisone allowed the inflammation to subside and self-heal
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: here ?
12:01 PM Jymmm: jdh: Yeah, makes perfect sense.
12:02 PM Jymmm: jdh: Did an Ortho doc inject you?
12:02 PM jdh: yep. big ugly needle wiggling around
12:03 PM Jymmm: jdh: Ok, so not just your GP ?
12:03 PM Daniel-2818: yes
12:03 PM jdh: he sent me to see ortho
12:04 PM gloops: only one cure for sciatica - work
12:04 PM Jymmm: jdh: Gotcha. I hadn't heard of lidocaine injections being done before (usually not covered by insurance I'd suspect) is why I asked, but good to know.
12:05 PM jdh: lidocaine only lasts a couple hours at best
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: what irc client are you using
12:05 PM jdh: gloops: stretch every mornning
12:05 PM Jymmm: jdh: depends on formulation, some are "time released"
12:07 PM gloops: stretching helps yes jdh, trouble is people rest and let the nerve heal in resting positions - first time they do anything it goes again
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: FabLab: atill working weekend ahead
12:08 PM Daniel-2818: currently webchat at freenode or some android app. permentely distracted...
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: do you got mozilla/firefox running
12:09 PM gloops: mine years ago, i couldnt get out of bed for a week literally, in agony, had an argument with the doc who told me to do as much work on it as possible, easy to say when bending down brings tears to your eyes lol, and the waiting room is full of people with sick notes for bad backs
12:09 PM FabLab: IchGucksLive, I need more money in my bag
12:09 PM Daniel-2818: yes
12:09 PM gloops: but he was right, mines gone totally, took a couple of years
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: please install adon chatzilla
12:10 PM FabLab: hard work -> money -> woman
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: FabLab: women with money is the better way to a perfect cnc
12:11 PM gloops: yes, skip the work and go straight for a rich widower
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: this client will give you a better performence
12:11 PM FabLab: but actually tomorrow I will visit cannstadter vasen
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: FabLab: WHY you are in basement and she gots the time she needs
12:11 PM Daniel-2818: its not the client, the distraction is next to the monitor
12:11 PM Daniel-2818: ;-)
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: Daniel-2818: with the client we can chat german as in querry
12:14 PM gloops: sbr 16, or sbr 20?
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: depends
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: what mesurment xy
12:16 PM gloops: 1 metre
12:16 PM gloops: box section steel gantry though, pretty heavy
12:17 PM gloops: ill go with 20 i think
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: yes you shoudt
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: what about the sqare set
12:24 PM gloops: not used these rails before i dont know what theyre like, well the squares are better but probably double the money
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: http://www.ebay.de/itm/EU-6Pcs-Square-Linear-Rail-Guide-L-400-700-1000mm-Ballscrew-1605-400-700-1000mm-/152680647211
12:30 PM gloops: have already bought screws though
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
02:39 PM sadisticroot: gloops: THK SR-W series are really nice linear rails and bearing blocks
02:39 PM sadisticroot: They're what my robots use
02:41 PM gloops: nice rails sadistic, but 5x the £
02:42 PM gloops: although i know i should not be skimping on this, it is the cost of one job on the machine, im just tight fisted by nature haha
02:43 PM sadisticroot: Ah, not in the US
02:43 PM MarcelineVQ: if you plan to make a little money with the machine you can start with what works then upgrade as you go
02:43 PM MarcelineVQ: Just don't want a backlog of work with that plan
02:44 PM gloops: true Marcel
02:44 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THK-A1A-006-L-106cm-LINEAR-RAIL-W-X2-THK-GSR25T-NNB-linear-bearing-/292231442683?
02:44 PM sadisticroot: Pretty sure that's each
02:45 PM sadisticroot: Kind of misleading
02:45 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/linear-rail-SBR16-1200mm-4-supporter-rails-8-SBR16UU-blocks-for-CNC/181942755606? 4 @1200mm for £100
02:46 PM MarcelineVQ: that last one is cheaper than I'd get here
02:46 PM MarcelineVQ: at bid at least
02:47 PM MarcelineVQ: when you say 100 are you including shipping or does it say 100 buy price on your end?
02:47 PM gloops: 55 + 46 shipping
02:48 PM gloops: you could buy the lot and make profit over here im sure
02:48 PM MarcelineVQ: That's comparable to the best I've seen around here
02:48 PM sadisticroot: SBR16 is on the small side for CNC
02:49 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm not in a wonderful spot either though for this kind of stuff, US seems to get it pretty good when it comes to shipping and such
02:49 PM gloops: well i dont know really sadistic, i was looking for 20mm - im only working with wood not metal
02:49 PM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: that may change
02:49 PM MarcelineVQ: It might, in the mean time it's up to the little guys to put together home shops to make things for locals
02:50 PM gloops: these chinese sbr is only bright bar on an ally strip, why arent we making it?
02:51 PM XXCoder: blocks is slightly harder to make
02:53 PM gregcnc_: XXCoder thought of you when I CC a video I uploaded last night
02:53 PM gloops: we make jet turbines, im sure a bearing block is not beyond our abilities
02:53 PM XXCoder: nice
02:54 PM XXCoder: gloops: nicew
02:54 PM XXCoder: sure it isnt but can it be made nearly as cheap?
02:54 PM MarcelineVQ: it doesn't help that alu is expensive if you're not a miner or a recycler, or a subsidiary of one
02:54 PM XXCoder: I make some parts thats far more complex than bearing block but it isnt too cheap
02:54 PM gregcnc_: You can't buy materials for the cost of Chinaco products
02:55 PM XXCoder: the jet belt thingy has what seems like 100 features
02:55 PM gloops: they buy all our scrap ally to make these then sell it back to us
02:55 PM gregcnc_: and it's still scrap?
02:56 PM XXCoder: less scrappy scrap
02:56 PM gloops: $500 for a few strips of tin its scandalous
02:56 PM XXCoder: our demend is outstripping mines
02:56 PM XXCoder: we need to mine asteroids and space.
02:56 PM gregcnc_: time to mine landfills
02:56 PM XXCoder: bigger metallic rocks can supply current demends for 1000 years.
02:57 PM MarcelineVQ: just think, if you say that enough times the hippies will chain themselves to asteroids and solve two problems at once
02:57 PM sadisticroot: haha
03:00 PM XXCoder: I'm half hippie
03:00 PM XXCoder: nd rocks is dead, who would I half-chain to it :P
03:01 PM MarcelineVQ: your better half
03:02 PM XXCoder: I'm not against exploitation of envorment for profit
03:02 PM XXCoder: just that it should be managed so our children children dont live at barren polluted world.
03:04 PM gloops: profit is not the incentive that will take mankind forward
03:04 PM andypugh: Can I have my share now? I am not going to have any children :-)
03:04 PM gloops: profit will only lead us to hell
03:04 PM XXCoder: andypugh: me either. but ya know we are all humans
03:05 PM XXCoder: gloops: indeed! or more properly, rapicious greed profit is hell.
03:06 PM andypugh: Speak for yourself. I am currently a self-declared ungulate.
03:06 PM andypugh: (If you can pick a se that you think suits you, then species should be up for grabs too)
03:07 PM XXCoder: thats not how it works andypugh.
03:07 PM gloops: craving for wealth is an unquenchable thirst
03:08 PM XXCoder: gloops: yep
03:08 PM gloops: contentment lies in controlling this desire, not trying to slake it - which is impossible
03:08 PM MarcelineVQ: it's not that unquenchable, it's just that the rich also have the idea of "for my descendents" and it's easier to get more wealthy if you're wealthy
03:09 PM XXCoder: thats better way of putting it
03:09 PM XXCoder: and some rich treat money as score :(
03:10 PM XXCoder: as if bank account is judgement of person value
03:11 PM gloops: Marcel if you can only feel right arriving in a an expensive sports car in a 3k suit you have no faith in your own self
03:11 PM XXCoder: gloops: I dont care about that actually
03:11 PM MarcelineVQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c :>
03:12 PM XXCoder: I care when that person has all that by making sure his or her workers is crushed with shitty pay, shitty health care, so on and on
03:12 PM XXCoder: I'm perfectly fine with some people being rich.
03:12 PM MarcelineVQ: now if you drive a loud vehicle that didn't come out of the factory loud, you might have a bit of an self-image problem
03:13 PM XXCoder: sometimes I'm very close with classical GOP, Unions, fair pay, so on and on.
03:13 PM XXCoder: lol I dont care if is loud, just a to b reliably,.
03:13 PM MarcelineVQ: I mean if you made your car loud XXCoder :D
03:14 PM XXCoder: yeeah I wouldnt hear it so I dont care :P lol
03:14 PM gloops: well, some wealth is used as capital, i mean a person might pursue money to invest in concerns that benefit mankind, progress medicine or scince ior engineering, that was the spirit of many old time entrepreneurs
03:14 PM gloops: but if the goal is purely personal gain then the positive ethics go right out the window
03:15 PM XXCoder: indeed
03:15 PM XXCoder: we need upper income cap
03:16 PM gloops: and a bling tax
03:16 PM MarcelineVQ: But most rich people aren't rich by income.
03:17 PM XXCoder: say if lowest paid person in company is 30k a year, ceo can get 3,000k. Yes that is 100 times, but then theres ceos with far higher differental
03:18 PM XXCoder: ceo want more money? give all lower paid people rainse to say 35k, and ceo gets 500k more annually
03:18 PM gloops: well it is an old idea XXCoder, George Orwell proposed a 10x maximum pay differential
03:18 PM XXCoder: it is.
03:18 PM XXCoder: I think 100 is easier to pass
03:20 PM XXCoder: I think there is ceos with ratio of 1000 times more or worse
03:23 PM gloops: yes, 10000 for roadsweeping, 10 000 000 for the figurehead of a carbon fuel distributor
03:23 PM XXCoder: 10000000 times?
03:24 PM XXCoder: ahh misread yeah thats 1000 times
03:24 PM gloops: 1000 times more
03:47 PM Connor: Anyone know of a list or chart that can tell you the age of a Bridgeport Head? I can find them for the bases.. but.. doesn't look like BP maintained a list for the heads.
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: i saw one recently. Let me check the Google....
03:56 PM _methods: CaptHindsight: you going to fabtech?
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: _methods: yeah I have to get my free pass
03:58 PM _methods: cool i'm going too
03:58 PM _methods: we're going to get one of those new fiber lasers
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: a month from today
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: hey did anyone go see the new Blade Runner already?
03:59 PM _methods: nah i'm going to watch it tomorrow
03:59 PM _methods: what days you going to fabtech?
03:59 PM _methods: i think we're just going to hit 1 day maybe monday or tuesday
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: hmm Nov 6-9 let me check
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: Monday will be the busy day
04:00 PM _methods: 1 day we're going to the new trumpf chicago "smart" factory
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: not sure yet, I'll try to make it when you are there
04:00 PM _methods: yeah i was thinking might be better to go tuesday
04:00 PM _methods: or even the last day or something
04:00 PM _methods: i'm not sure what our schedule is yet
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: last day usually ends early
04:00 PM _methods: once i know more i'll let you know
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: sometimes by 3 pm
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: are you staying in Chicago?
04:01 PM _methods: maybe fly in tuesday go to show wednesday
04:01 PM _methods: then trumpf thursday and fly out
04:01 PM _methods: yeah
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: ah ok
04:01 PM _methods: plan is kinda up in the air right now for dates
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: let's see, sometimes I get preempted by work or travel
04:02 PM _methods: i know the mitsubishi and trumpf dealers want to take us out and stuff so not sure what the itinerary is yet
04:02 PM _methods: that's cool i know how that is
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: i thin i worked through the last one
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: it's every 2 years I think
04:03 PM _methods: yeah
04:03 PM _methods: atlanta one year
04:03 PM _methods: then chicago the next
04:03 PM _methods: i think they throw vegas in there every once in awhile too
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: there are so many shows here
04:03 PM _methods: anyways i'm out time to head home i'll let you know more when i figure out what's goin on
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: printing, assembly, mold making, fasteners, plastics, on and on
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: April to early June and then Sept to early Dec.
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: one site said that the head numbers don't really tell you the age
04:06 PM Connor: CaptHindsight: Yup.. that's what I'm finding..
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: the one by the Y crank is definitely the one that tells the year it was made
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: but i did see some chart for the heads somewhere
04:08 PM Connor: Let me know if you find one for the head. I know the age of the base.. the head is older
04:08 PM Connor: It's a 1 1/2 HP 3 phase J head.
04:08 PM Connor: SN J-87982
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: http://rotordesign.com/serialnumbers.html
04:09 PM Connor: Yea. That's just the base. :(
04:09 PM Connor: SN BR-261534
04:10 PM Connor: So, base is 1992
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: heh mine is from 1958
04:13 PM Connor: We think the head was on a shaper. Quill looks like it's never been used and it had ships on the BACK of the head..
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: sold to textron in 1968
04:15 PM Connor: How do you know that?
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: the company
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: BP was sold to Textron in 1968
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: not your machine :)
04:17 PM hazzy: Do you know who sold my BP? It is a 1971
04:17 PM hazzy: :D
04:17 PM hazzy: Anybody had to calibrate a touchscreen on Debian9 yet?
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.bpt.com/ I bet you can call and ask them what it is
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: Service: 800-424-2440
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: General Information: 607-734-2281
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.bpt.com/Contact-Us
04:18 PM syyl: Hmm. I think the Bobcadcam guy stopped calling
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeport_(machine_tool_brand)#References one line above "1968 March 1, Bridgeport Machines Inc. sold to Textron Inc."
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: ask archivist
04:23 PM andypugh: Textron bought my dads old employer. He retired soon after. A company that makes threaded inserts then tries to inpose the same SAP system on a company that makes one-off gearboxes is misunderstanding important stuff.
04:26 PM Connor: Thoughts on putting a VFD on this machine? It has LOW: 160,270,420,650 HIGH: 1320,2230,3500,5440
04:28 PM andypugh: Hmm, looking at Google Maps it seems that the company (no longer part of Textron) is doing OK, I see some new buildings on what is a _huge_ factory site. https://goo.gl/maps/qjq81JzcgSQ2
04:32 PM enleth: Connor: what's the motor's native speed?
04:33 PM Connor: I dunno. I would have to look at the motor and it's at the Maker Space.
04:34 PM andypugh: It’s got enough speeds you could not bother.
04:34 PM andypugh: But, is it a lathe or a mill>
04:34 PM Connor: I don't want people using the top 2 speeds because it screams.
04:35 PM andypugh: For a mill I wouldn’t bother, for a lathe maybe I would for CSS
04:35 PM Connor: Probably will need bearings at some point
04:35 PM gloops: what does the screaming sound like?
04:35 PM Connor: andypugh: a Series I BridgePort.
04:35 PM andypugh: 5440 is fast for a lathe, so I would guess mill
04:36 PM andypugh: 2230 is a bit slow. Fix the bearings :-)
04:36 PM Connor: I don't know. I've not heard it.. just going on what the guy who I bought it from said. We ran it around 1320 or 2230 and it sounded ok.
04:37 PM andypugh: Maybe it’s a quiet scream. My mill sounds terrible at 1000 rpm.
04:37 PM andypugh: My policy is “OK, noisy part, become obvious"
04:37 PM Connor: We're going to wire it up soon. Space has a big event planned on the 14th After that.. we can move it into the finial position and wire it up.
04:37 PM enleth: Connor: most VFDs can do several motor profiles and switch between them using the configurable I/O - keep that in mind when choosing the "default" pulley position
04:38 PM enleth: Connor: you can configure a second profile for the highest ratio and a third for the middle with backgear engaged, for example
04:38 PM andypugh: The horizontal spindle on mine is quiet at 1000 + VFD tweak to 1500, so it’s something in the vertical head.
04:38 PM Connor: First things first is Power feed for the Y and DRO's :)
04:38 PM enleth: Connor: to have different upper frequency limits and different output RPM display multipliers
04:39 PM Connor: enleth: Keep in mind, this machine is in a Maker Space.. Aka Community Workshop.. so.. I have to keep things simple.. and anyone who messes with the machine has to be checked out on it.
04:39 PM Connor: and it's mine personally.. so.. I don't won't some bone head screws stuff up.
04:40 PM enleth: Connor: well, mine sits in a Hackerspace
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: so what you are saying is that a spindle should not sound like a coffee grinder :)
04:40 PM enleth: same thing but more screwing around
04:40 PM Connor: Yup. Same thing. Moved away from the Term Hacker due to the negative connotation and using Maker.
04:40 PM enleth: negative schmegative, but whatever
04:41 PM Connor: I agree.. Just restating what the official reason was.
04:42 PM enleth: anyway, I'd select a high speed pulley setting and use backgear and low VFD frequency for low speeds
04:42 PM enleth: should be much easier on the transmission than the opposite
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: Shared Hardworking Antisocial Technical Space (SHATS)
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: hardworking/hipster
04:43 PM enleth: Connor: also remember to limit the lower frequency - a bridgeport motor cools itself and the belt enclosure using the back shaft fan, which is useless at very low speeds
04:44 PM enleth: 10% or so of the rated frequency is AFAIK the lowest safe speed under load
04:45 PM enleth: on the other end of the range, if the motor is in a good condition, it should do fine at 200% of the rated frequency
04:45 PM Connor: https://scontent.fbna1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22196379_10209804252614034_6212293560734186615_n.jpg?oh=211750365e89b56c16a343b1b49ed2ab&oe=5A455A2B
04:45 PM enleth: the belt and input pulley might not, though
04:45 PM Connor: Not sure if everyone can see that.. but.. that's the mill.
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: whats the sprokety thingy in the J-heads that keeps the clutch from engaging in the LOW range?
04:47 PM Connor: So, all those questions I was asking about on how to unload and move the mill? Ended up using a lower trailer and a 2 Ton Chain hoist. Worked like a champ.
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: looks almost new
04:47 PM Connor: Used 3 furniture dollies each rated for 1000lbs to move it to the back shop.
04:48 PM Connor: The table could be a bit better.. It's been stoned.. It's got a milling mark in it.. a single hole and a few dents.. but.. nothing major.
04:48 PM andypugh: Does that have the really neat handles that the machine at work has? You need to twist the actual handle to operate a cam that pushes a rod inside the balance-ball part that engages a clutch with the shaft. Sounds terrible but is actually completely intuitive once you know that is how it works. And no spinning handles under power-feed.
04:48 PM enleth: Connor: a couple steel water pipes and a crowbar works too if you have flat floor
04:48 PM gregcnc_: I need to stock up on machine taps. friday and no suitable tap to run in the lathe.
04:48 PM andypugh: enleth: you need 3. Preferably more
04:49 PM Connor: Yea.. we had to move it 3 bays.. the dollies worked much faster.. we tried with pipes.. but didn't have enough and didn't want to mess up the floor since we're renting.
04:49 PM enleth: I've done it with just one, wasn't very comfortable but worked
04:50 PM andypugh: gregcnc_: I can go here on a saturday morning, very handy: https://www.cromwell.co.uk
04:50 PM andypugh: Literally walking sistance.
04:50 PM Connor: andypugh: You asking me about the handles ?
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: I use a forklift under the head
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: how much lash do you have on the X and Y?
04:52 PM andypugh: Connor: Well, I was really trying to warn you that the handles might seem funny if you have that type, without appearing to patronise. Because it took us days and internet to figure out.
04:52 PM Connor: .005 on the Y and .007 on the X
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: mine still has the original screws and nut so it's like 60 thou
04:53 PM Connor: They're just standard handles.. black with white text and you can adjust them to 0
04:53 PM Connor: If that answers your question.
04:54 PM Connor: So, it's got 3 Knee Clamps? one on the front and two near the dove tail on the back.. Does anyone ever use the two rear ones?
04:55 PM andypugh: I guess that would depend on the job. Locking the position, or bracing for a super-heavy cut.
04:57 PM Connor: Had to buy a new fine feed hand wheel and and fine feed engage knob.
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/3ctM6kHyDb82 anyone know where or when this palmgren vise is from?
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: 1958 BP J-head ^^
05:01 PM Connor: Thoughts on this DRO ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/231135159329
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: was just near there a few hours ago
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: same price for all sizes of travel
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRO-Display-4-axis-Update-or-replaces-most-top-name-brands-programmable-/263000190050 this one gets fancy and shows you angles
05:09 PM Connor: That doesn't include the scales though does it ?
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: no scales from what i can tell
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: is the kit for $525 the same as the $600 kit?
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: ah says 4-axis display and only 3 scales
05:10 PM Connor: No. It's 4 axis, but the 4th is a capacitive scale.
05:11 PM Connor: and you read it right on scale.. not on the remote DRO
05:11 PM Connor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/263169167546
05:11 PM Connor: that's the kit for the one you posted.
05:14 PM Connor: What is normally the Z on Bridgeport.. The Knee or the Quill ?
05:14 PM Connor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231135159329 I'm thinking Z will be quill and K would be Knee for this one..
05:17 PM Connor: I need to measure the table.. not sure if it's a 42" or a 49"
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: for that price you could have LCNC be the DRO
05:21 PM Connor: Yea.. I can get the $600 for $575 from the people direct, not via ebay.
05:21 PM Connor: free shipping.
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: I got a set of aluminum scales from Shars for ~$150 on sale
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: oh it was <$100 for all three
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/digital-readouts-dro?digital_readout_category=Linear+Scales check out the aluminum scales if you want cheap and good enough for a BP
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: though your mill is in much better shape
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: we used to use a digital IO card on the ISA bus for manual machines with encoders
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder if somebody has it working a *duino
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: heh https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_Encoder.html
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: I'm working with Sebs Teensy HAL
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: this could work pretty easily
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: fast enough for 4 20KHz encoders
05:36 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Just because Seba is small you don't have to mock her ;)
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/26803-Hardware-Quadrature-Code-for-Teensy-3-x
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: teensy reading the encoders and sending position to HAL over USB
05:38 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: benefit being?
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: use LCNC as a DRO only
05:38 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: ah
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: cheap
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: and better display
05:39 PM Jymmm: yeah, and so are old laptops for $25
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: Teensy does the work
05:39 PM Jymmm: make a livecd and dont even need a hdd
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: the laptop, RPi whatever runs LCNC and display
05:40 PM Jymmm: HDMI displays are pricy, old laptop seems better
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: if and when i have maybe I'll try
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: depends on what you have around
05:40 PM Jymmm: VGA mostly
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: I have a dozen LCD panels
05:40 PM Jymmm: Rpi hdmi or mini hdmi
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: maybe one spare laptop
05:41 PM Jymmm: but how many are hdmi?
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: laptops are a few $ ea in bulk on ebay
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: more than half
05:41 PM Jymmm: shit, yard sales =)
05:41 PM Jymmm: ah ok
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: I have one 12 years old I knocked over :(
05:42 PM Jymmm: Got a wired apple full sized kybd for $4 today =)
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: it's funny it didn't crack the display outside, only inside so I have an area that looks like a cartoon crack
05:42 PM Jymmm: YAY for backups =)
05:42 PM Jymmm: haha
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: \0/
05:43 PM malcom2073: Wolf__: http://www.cams-club.org/events/yardsale2017.html
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: I never break stuff. It always just wears out until now
05:48 PM andypugh: Jymmm: I dragged mine out of the cupboard today to replace the truly horrid one I had plugged in to me dev PC. It might not have a # anywhere on it (a bit awkward for coding) but neither does it have a “home” to the right of the tiny delete key. And I hit delete a lot.
05:50 PM andypugh: malcom2073: Bah! I saw “Old Colchester Road” and thought I could dispse of some of my treasure.
05:50 PM andypugh: But it’s a different Colchester.
05:52 PM malcom2073: Heh, yeah
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: we copied lots of your names and pronounce them wrongly
05:55 PM andypugh: Is it possible to pronounce Colchester wrongly?
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: kole-chester
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vlYkIbnBx8 kohl chehs ter
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: we have lots of small towns with French names that definitely do not use the French pronunciation
06:03 PM MarcelineVQ: never knew how to pronounce Tír na nÓg Street. myself. I got the last word at least.
06:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpelier,_Ohio Mont pell yer
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnXuwSQeNhc
06:26 PM andypugh: Hmm, they are _close_ with Colchester. And I have to admit that I probably don’t pronounce it exactly like the locals do.
06:27 PM andypugh: I am from the North. We didn’t have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
06:28 PM andypugh: So every one of my vowels sounds a bit different from the southern version.
06:29 PM andypugh: (If you watch “Game of Thrones” you will have heard this. Jon Snow talks English with northern vowels, and Cersei has southern ones.
06:30 PM andypugh: We even have a Wall, you know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall
06:34 PM andypugh: I feel the urge to share this photo caption “The remains of Castle Nick, Milecastle 39, near Steel Rigg, between Housesteads and the Once Brewed Visitor Centre for the Northumberland National Park”
06:34 PM andypugh: Yes, “Once Brewed” might be the silliest place name in the UK. Though I think the US wins there.
06:40 PM enleth: andypugh: yes, Jon's "foock" is quite noticeable
07:24 PM evilroot: Hrm
07:24 PM evilroot: Trying to decide what to use for the bed of my machine
07:25 PM evilroot: I want to be able to mill aluminum
07:26 PM evilroot: And the robot bolts down right to a table
07:26 PM evilroot: Trying to keep it fairly cheap
07:26 PM * evilroot ponders
08:12 PM andypugh: Steel section?
08:20 PM evilroot: Steel section?
08:21 PM evilroot: What kind?
08:23 PM enleth: hot rolled C beams?
08:26 PM andypugh: Something like that.
08:26 PM andypugh: There is commercial Alumiium T-slot too.
08:27 PM andypugh: But it’s not so cheap, and it is mainly aimed at small machines.
08:28 PM evilroot: The working area of the robots I'll be using is 600x400mm
08:29 PM andypugh: One of these might make a good base: https://weldtables.com/products/fb2424-fabblock-u-weld-kit-welding-table
08:29 PM andypugh: OK, so you are talking small.
08:29 PM evilroot: Danged expensive
08:29 PM evilroot: Well the thing is I'm using an industrial robot
08:30 PM evilroot: So there need to be allowances for how it actually bolts to the table
08:30 PM andypugh: I think we are in different places about “expensive”
08:30 PM evilroot: https://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_49lRDkBG89p_1200x900.jpg
08:30 PM evilroot: See how its a lot bigger than its actual work area?
08:31 PM andypugh: Well, yes, and a pallet is very cheap :-)
08:31 PM evilroot: Indeed, but not terribly precise :-D
08:32 PM andypugh: To be honest I think the weldtables design is quite clever. You could steal the idea and use your own laser-cutting shop.
08:33 PM evilroot: https://weldtables.com/collections/pro-series-welding-table-tops/products/2x3-welding-table-top-kit-most-popular-pro-top-kit
08:33 PM evilroot: I rather like this
08:33 PM andypugh: They use the straighntess of the laser-cut braces to get their flatness
08:33 PM evilroot: Seems like it would work well, ought to be durable enough for aluminum
08:33 PM andypugh: Indeed.
08:34 PM andypugh: It’s a clever design, I feel.
08:35 PM evilroot: https://weldtables.com/collections/fabblocks/products/fb2424-fabblock-u-weld-kit-welding-table
08:35 PM evilroot: This would also do nicely
08:35 PM evilroot: For more durability
08:35 PM andypugh: Watch the videos. I am am a bit of a git watching other folks videos, I spend my time working out how I would so it better. Musch less so with theirs.
08:37 PM andypugh: I _think_ JT actually bought one.
08:50 PM evilroot: Hmm
08:51 PM evilroot: Part of the reason price is an issue is that I'm setting up three
08:52 PM evilroot: I'm finally at the point where the robots are really coming online with LinuxCNC
09:06 PM Cromaglious_: broke again, until my next comes in. Just put a windshield and had all the glass tinted in my 1997 Cadillac DeVille
09:06 PM Cromaglious_: my next check
09:10 PM Cromaglious_: need to setup one of my er16 tts' as a center drill only. and I need to find a J33 to TTS holder for my drill chuck
09:11 PM Cromaglious_: wooo tormach has it for $`7.29
09:12 PM Cromaglious_: wooo tormach has it for $17.29
09:13 PM Cromaglious_: Meh... $26.20 with shipping...
09:17 PM Cromaglious_: $30.43 using paypal oh well... now I don't have to take out the 3/4 R8 tormach collet to put in the chuck.
09:19 PM Cromaglious_: Broker until payday
09:27 PM Connor: So, milling Cast Iron... (Manually on Bridgeport).. Use Oil? Or Dry? Probably using HSS or TiN coated.
09:27 PM andypugh: Typically dry, I believe.
09:28 PM Connor: Had someone measure my table. 9x48
09:28 PM andypugh: I have always done CI dry, keeps the coolant clean for other jobs.
09:29 PM Connor: What sort of end mill?
09:29 PM Connor: Heck, I'll probably even hook up a vacuum to such up the dust.
09:30 PM XXCoder: CI?
09:31 PM Connor: Cast Iron
09:31 PM XXCoder: ahh
09:31 PM XXCoder: it messes up coolant?
09:31 PM Connor: Yea. cause it mills into a very fine dust or powder..
09:32 PM XXCoder: interesting
09:32 PM XXCoder: fine dust + lungs :(
09:32 PM XXCoder: is there such thing as cast iron fever?
09:32 PM andypugh: I like it, use it a lot. but it’s filthy:-)
09:32 PM XXCoder: you like it filthy eh heh
09:33 PM Connor: Yea, it coats ALL kinds of stuff.. Ever get anything from China and notice that black powdery stuff all over it? Yup.. cast iron from the factory..
09:33 PM XXCoder: interesting
09:33 PM XXCoder: is it same thing as "pig iron"
09:34 PM Connor: It makes chips too... but.. lots of dust.
09:36 PM XXCoder: interesting
09:38 PM roycroft: didn't ted nugent do a song about cast iron fever?
09:50 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fit99l6kHyA
09:53 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:19 PM evilroot: Never use coolant when milling cat iron
10:19 PM evilroot: It kind of generates its own lubricant
10:20 PM evilroot: Graphite if I remember right
10:20 PM evilroot: *cast iron, hehe
10:21 PM XXCoder: *fast iron
10:22 PM evilroot: But yeah, the dust is nasty
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: itz so brittle it just kracks
10:22 PM evilroot: Don't do it without some sort of vacuum system
10:23 PM evilroot: Whenever I even cut or drill cast iron I spray it outside with brake cleaner afterwards
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/0gLxN1S5vgI?t=21s Machining Cast Iron
10:25 PM evilroot: That looks nothing like cast iron
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: this does https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UKMRZRUHwg
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: cast stell, I mean iron, er eh aluminum, well metal anyway
10:26 PM evilroot: Yeah
10:26 PM evilroot: When I think "cast iron" I'm thinking an entirely different beast
10:27 PM andypugh: There are many cast irions.
10:27 PM evilroot: Indeed
10:27 PM andypugh: And “semi steels”
10:28 PM evilroot: Yeah, see those are more of what I think of as semi-steel alloys
10:29 PM evilroot: Are they technically cast iron? I guess. But its more like milling a solid metal rather than a cast one
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: yeah vs this http://cf.ltkcdn.net/antiques/images/slide/104696-490x367-early_parlor_stove.jpg
10:30 PM evilroot: If that makes any sense
10:30 PM evilroot: Well I'm thinking more of the massive valves and such that were 8" thick cast iron
10:31 PM evilroot: Meant for watering entire farms
10:31 PM evilroot: But also fences, furnaces, radiators, and of course skillets
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: still cast iron but http://www.dura-bar.com/
10:35 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: are you west coast USA somewhere?
10:37 PM evilroot: East coast actually
10:38 PM evilroot: Durham, NC
10:39 PM evilroot: And I must admit first thought for cast iron is my treasured skillet I got from my grandmother
10:39 PM evilroot: Its so perfectly smooth . . . .
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: ah near _methods
10:41 PM evilroot: Oh?
10:42 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: ^^ is machinable and they have a grade for corrosive environments but ..
10:43 PM CaptHindsight: are they just in the low carbon range of toughness until it gets enough other metals to be a steel?
10:43 PM CaptHindsight: or is the amount of carbon the main difference?
10:43 PM evilroot: .me is not a material engineer
10:43 PM * evilroot is not a material engineer
10:44 PM * evilroot forgot how to IRC
10:44 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: is the metallurgist
10:44 PM evilroot: Ah
10:45 PM * evilroot is the jack of all trades
10:45 PM evilroot: But mostly robotics ( at least currently)
10:45 PM CaptHindsight: I do enough machining to know I don't like to
10:45 PM CaptHindsight: same for welding
10:46 PM andypugh: Sorry, I was buried in YouTube
10:46 PM evilroot: Welding I rather enjoy
10:46 PM evilroot: But I always had to do it for my father
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: no problem
10:46 PM evilroot: And it was never up to his standards
10:46 PM andypugh: Pure iron is just pure ferrite.
10:47 PM evilroot: Most of my adult life I've spent buying random equipment at surplus and then repairing and reselling it
10:47 PM evilroot: Its great fun. I've never seen a broken machine I couldn't fix
10:47 PM andypugh: As you add carbon you get steel. Steel is ferrite with bits in, cementite, an iron/carbon compound.
10:47 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: so what does durabar do?
10:48 PM evilroot: And now I'm (hopefully) using industrial robots to build 3D printers
10:48 PM andypugh: The _shape_ of the cementite makes a big difference to the properties. It can make Bainite or Pearlite or other stuff.
10:49 PM andypugh: But that’s all iron and iron-carbon compounds.
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: Dura-Bar Ni-Resist irons contain an austenitic matrix of approximately 10% alloy carbides
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: Irons containing Type D graphite
10:50 PM andypugh: But: At high temps iron can hold more carbon in solution. And at high temps iron transforms from ferrite to austenite (still just iron, but a different atomic structure)
10:50 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Hang on, I am only at 0..8% carbon so far :-)
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: ok
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenite#/media/File:Steel_pd.svg
10:52 PM andypugh: But more carbon in and transform to austenite then cool the material and it can go two ways. Cool slow you get pearlite, bainite and (above the eutectic point of 0.8%) some free graphite.
10:53 PM andypugh: Cool it fast and the carbon does not have time to diffuse out of the crystals to form cementite and you get Matrtensite. White, super hard and a very different atomic structure (it’s not even the same size)
10:54 PM andypugh: Ferrous metallurgy is about getting the exact mix of all these things that you want.
10:55 PM andypugh: So far we are at 0.8% carbin, and there is a long way to go.
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: if you reheat Matrtensite does it go back to pearlite or bainite?
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: I can read the book to let you back to youtubes
10:56 PM andypugh: Well, it goes to Austenite, and then back to whatever the cooling rate makes. Going back to austenite (“Normalising”) is like pressing the reset button.
10:57 PM andypugh: (Though not 100%, none of this so far has discussed grain size)
10:58 PM andypugh: Anyeay, cast irion is up above 10% carbon. Big lumps of actual pure carbon exist in the structure, as plates, lamellae, nodules, spheres..
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: we talked about this before using powdered metals to form superalloys with single grain structures
10:59 PM andypugh: SG iron is specialy treated to make the graphite lumps spherical.
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: and varying the alloys as you print to form parts with different alloys as different points
11:00 PM andypugh: That would be neat
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: as/at
11:01 PM andypugh: Worth noting that no matter what the shape of the graphite is in your cast irion, you can _still_ play games with heat-treating the iron matrix.
11:02 PM andypugh: Ferrous metallurgy is a huge field, and important. I have a PhD in the subject and reckon I know 5% of what there is to know.
11:03 PM andypugh: Actually, that is _knew_ 5%, I have forgotten most of it.
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: it comes back when you use it :)
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://authors.library.caltech.edu/50785/1/S0884291414002088a.pdf
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: Compositionally graded metals: A new frontier of additive manufacturing ^^
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: a few pages in there show an engine vale that varies from Inconel to 304L
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: SS
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: also some SS to Invar
11:09 PM andypugh: That’s rather cool
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: 10x stronger without the welding
11:11 PM andypugh: Though friction welding is probably still the cheaper way to make wacky valves.
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: same for themoplastics and SLS
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: vary the composition of the powder that the laser sinters
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: it mostly unexplored since the printers were patented
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: and the makers only sold limited materials
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: anyway I'm off