#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 04 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:04 AM hazzy: That little train is sweet! So simple
12:10 AM Jymmm: That is cool!
12:11 AM Jymmm: whoa... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voHz6sxwQ2Q
12:21 AM hazzy: I have to make one, NOW
12:22 AM hazzy: There: https://i.imgur.com/lzMyfXT.jpg
12:25 AM hazzy: It works real good, maybe 120 rpm, and I did not take any care
12:27 AM Jymmm: hazzy: pic of magnet you used?
12:27 AM hazzy: It is conveniant to have junk sitting around once work-space for such impromptu experiments
12:27 AM hazzy: Sure, sek
12:28 AM hazzy: I used three 5/16" x 1/16" neodimum, I think bought from Horror Fright tools
12:30 AM hazzy: Magnets: https://i.imgur.com/cI7sIFe.jpg
12:31 AM hazzy: Jymmm: Sorry for bad pic
12:31 AM Jymmm: hazzy: I have a few magnets, I just want to see what you did and try to replicate it , thank you, that works for me =)
12:33 AM hazzy: I had the magnets holding notes to the nails in the drywall, and the wire siting on the desk, and the battery in my pocket :D
12:33 AM Jymmm: I have a crap load of mag wire too, I can imagine maybe adding some artistic wire art into the mix too
12:33 AM hazzy: Yeah, that would be fun
12:33 AM hazzy: I need to show this to my nephews!
12:34 AM Jymmm: tease em, have it sit on a shelf, then they go "whoa... wutz that?!"
12:35 AM Jymmm: Shit, I think I'll order a bunch from china the proper size
12:36 AM hazzy: I think I will try, but they are a bit accustomed to strange things sitting around when they visit ...
12:36 AM Jymmm: lmao, Uncle is a geek ;)
12:36 AM hazzy: Think Ill do the same
12:36 AM hazzy: and yes :D
12:37 AM Jymmm: OH SHIT... I have some unprotected 18650's sitting in front of me, good for at least 30A draw
12:37 AM hazzy: I came very close to use one those, but might it burst? lol
12:38 AM hazzy: It is shorted after all, but not for long
12:38 AM Jymmm: Yeah, think I'll stick to AA or maybe button cells as I have a few of those form a scraped project
12:39 AM hazzy: And it would just add to the fun
12:39 AM Jymmm: from*
12:39 AM * hazzy is off to bed
12:39 AM hazzy: gn8
12:39 AM Jymmm: and they are SMALLER than one of the magnets you showed me too
12:40 AM Jymmm: gnight hazzy
12:40 AM hazzy: I would think the bigger the better, I will dig out some more magnets in the morning and test
12:41 AM hazzy: And current should be more important than voltage, so button cells may be be great ...
12:42 AM hazzy: *may not be great
12:42 AM Jymmm: if you reverse the magnets, does that reverse the rotation direction?
12:42 AM hazzy: trying
12:43 AM hazzy: yes
12:43 AM Jymmm: heh heh heh
12:43 AM hazzy: Of course! I must be tired
12:43 AM Jymmm: well, it could be reversig the battery polarity too
12:43 AM Jymmm: or both
12:44 AM Jymmm: Hmmm, solar battery
12:45 AM Jymmm: like one of those $1 solar lights
12:45 AM hazzy: there you go, a garden decoration, you could make millions ;)
12:45 AM Jymmm: I never compete with china
12:46 AM Jymmm: bu artisitic wise, I think I have soem ideas
12:47 AM hazzy: Yes, I think there are certainly some possibilities in that regard
12:48 AM hazzy: OK, off for realz, night Jymmm
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: with enough power, bearings and precision it could be a a useful motor :)
12:58 AM CaptHindsight: I bet the coil tube and battery could be turned into a successful toy
12:59 AM CaptHindsight: tube trains
01:00 AM CaptHindsight: rail gunz
01:49 AM gloops: archivist - the wooden gears generator *does* do rounded profiles, after a closer look, under 'pinwheel' gears, only on the paid version, which isnt bad for about £20
01:50 AM archivist: or write a generator :)
01:52 AM archivist: actually I wonder if just understanding the tool diameter offsets is all you need
01:53 AM archivist: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#sec:cutter-compensation
01:55 AM archivist: see fig 5 where the internal corner results
01:56 AM archivist: with gears though you either space them so that does not touch or you need to add a curve to the tip
01:59 AM archivist: because of the involute, it is trivial to space two gears so the internal curve does not matter, as extra center to center distance of a gear pair does not make the gear "lumpy", gearing remains perfect with errors in distance
02:00 AM gloops: hmm, i think i see what youre saying
02:04 AM gloops: i couldnt write a generator lol, i think i will get the wood gears one, would be convenient for me
02:05 AM gloops: my contribution to gear science will be spreading the fascination with gears to young minds heh
02:06 AM archivist: what I am saying is use the free one and add a small amount of center distance
02:08 AM gloops: so the angles will still meet and drive, but the bottom will clear the tool radius
02:09 AM gloops: i havent even tried cutting any yet maybe i should do that and see how much of a problem it is
02:09 AM archivist: such a small problem that it is dont care if you use the tool comp
02:13 AM gloops: well the bottoms sort themselves, i can do a radiused cut on the tips in freedcad using circular array, but im going to have to repeat that for every size gear i make, i suppose once you have a set built up thats that, but as you say may not even be a problem
02:14 AM gloops: the pinwheel gears on that generator do look a lot more fluid though
02:14 AM archivist: also what age group, you know one of the educational suppliers has gears?
02:14 AM gloops: ages 8-10
02:15 AM Deejay: moin
02:16 AM gloops: it was just someone who mentioned having to cut a lot of fiddly printout gears from cardboard, i said i couldnt probably make some with ply or mdf and they would last a lot longer and be better to turn one another with
02:16 AM gloops: but im interested in making them anyway for other things
02:16 AM gloops: could probably make some
02:16 AM archivist: https://www.rapidonline.com/gears
02:17 AM gloops: lol, ill buy some of those and tell her i made them
02:18 AM gloops: actually i will show herthat thanks
02:20 AM gloops: has asked for link so have sent it
02:22 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Wooden-Spinning-Gears-Cogs-Baby-Play-Activity-Puzzle-Wood-Toy-Set-/381679240338?
02:22 AM gloops: stuff like this sells as well, only £1 to make that
02:24 AM archivist: impossible to compete with chinese stuff
02:25 AM archivist: I dont see how that is legal for 18months plenty of finger nip points
02:26 AM archivist: unless they are made of a sponge/very soft rubber
02:31 AM gloops: yeah you would have to watch the litigation side if selling them
02:31 AM archivist: gloops, there is a wooden clock at the BHI, Upton Hall
02:33 AM gloops: there are plans for wooden clocks online, a few people making them, very expensive
02:34 AM archivist: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-adjusting-the-world-s-largest-wooden-clock-at-the-british-horological-8491639.html
02:35 AM gloops: clockmaking is a science in itself though, pendulums and so on, interesting stuff
02:36 AM gloops: i would be fairly easy to make some kind of wooden geared display with a small motor
02:37 AM archivist: cheat
02:37 AM gloops: some very fragile parts though with those spoked wood gears, some sections will be just cross grain, i bet you make a few to get one intact
02:38 AM gloops: unless they are going to the trouble of making a rim from linear wood grain sections - a lot of work - and even then the teeth will be short grain
02:39 AM gloops: ply would be the best bet
05:06 AM jthornton-: morning
05:09 AM jthornton- is now known as jthornton
05:50 AM Valen: Father made a few wooden clocks
05:51 AM Valen: ply was the answer and even then they chipped teeth sometimes
05:51 AM Valen: he had buttloads of weight to try and get 24 hours out of them
07:35 AM jthornton: http://www.instructables.com/id/Industrial-Fly-Trap/
10:54 AM slipalong: anyone there?
10:54 AM archivist: no, all down the pub
10:54 AM slipalong: wish I was
10:54 AM slipalong: z axis step config
10:55 AM slipalong: is 0 is the table so should top of z travel be 300 or -300 or doesn't it matter?
10:55 AM archivist: 0 is top of the column
10:56 AM archivist: -number is at the table surface
10:56 AM HighInBC: I have everything setup for my new CNC, but no monitor for my computer. Will probably use this one for setup, but i need it for everyday computing
10:56 AM slipalong: jus set the PC up to dual boot. Windows or linux
10:57 AM archivist: most use another pc so it is dedicated
10:57 AM slipalong: so in mu case max travel is 0 (top of mill) and -300 is the table
10:57 AM archivist: 300 inches?
10:57 AM slipalong: Yes two is best
10:58 AM slipalong: mm
10:58 AM archivist: was just messing with the lack of units :)
10:58 AM slipalong: that would be a monster mill
11:00 AM slipalong: even an old cor 2 duo PC will run linuxcnc no problem.
11:01 AM slipalong: and the old PC's have built in parallel port too
11:01 AM HighInBC: ya I have an old system with a parallel port dedicated to it
11:01 AM HighInBC: hope it is not _too_ old
11:01 AM HighInBC: it has usb ports, and ps/2 keyboard ports. That should narrow down its age
11:02 AM slipalong: I suppose if you are working on large pieces you need faster machine to get around quicker
11:02 AM HighInBC: not going to be running windows, I don't trust it with power tools
11:04 AM crankylinuxuser1: greetings all. I tend to be more on the 3d printing side of things, but I've finishing up a drop-in closed loop controller that works with either a quadrature encoder or a mouse sensor (ADNS-3080 or similar) for feedback. Is that something people here would find useful?
11:04 AM HighInBC: neat
11:04 AM HighInBC: probably yes
11:04 AM slipalong: no the new Mach4 relies on an external motion controller
11:04 AM crankylinuxuser1: https://gitlab.com/crankylinuxuser/closed_loop_system is my project. Long and short, it takes in GND/Step/Dir/En and "does the rest"
11:05 AM HighInBC: seems like a transferable technology
11:05 AM crankylinuxuser1: im finishing up my board right now. I'm waning to be able to use either steppers or BLDCs. I'm looking for a respectable full-H driver now.
11:06 AM crankylinuxuser1: I set quite a few constraints on my build, one being "no firmware modification required"
11:07 AM crankylinuxuser1: Although, I am going to incorporate a PJON bus pin for a low bandwidth communication between modules with a robot like a 3d printer or CNC.
11:08 AM archivist: slipalong, http://willepadnos.net/jmkasunich/g-and-l-yaxis-1856.jpg
11:08 AM crankylinuxuser1: This is a discussion I opened with Marlin about the reasoning and justification of a low-bandwidth bus https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/issues/7823
11:11 AM CaptHindsight: hah reasonable and Marlin in the same sentence :)
11:11 AM slipalong: Wonder if you can write g code to cut that guy's hair :-)
11:12 AM archivist: geeks are supposed to be hairy
11:16 AM Jymmm: Then this group is the geekiest of em all
11:17 AM archivist: :)
11:17 AM * archivist admits nothing
11:25 AM roycroft: you should visit some old-timey unix folks if you want to see for really hairy
11:25 AM roycroft: not those young whippersnapper unix-geek-wanna-bes
11:25 AM roycroft: but the real old timers
11:33 AM * archivist pipes roycroft through awk
11:34 AM crankylinuxuser1: im familiar with them.. Look at crankylinuxuser 's /whois
11:34 AM crankylinuxuser1: host name fsf/member/crankylinuxuser :)
11:36 AM sync: crankylinuxuser1: I don't understand what you are trying to do with your thing
11:37 AM crankylinuxuser1: Steppers are open loop. You tell it to go to X, its the hope and prayer method if it really does. Servos are $$$$. Closed loop means you have feedback to verify where the motor went to. And if it's off, you can do "things" like correct it, alert on error, call ESTOP.
11:38 AM archivist: we can close the loop very easily with linuxcnc
11:38 AM crankylinuxuser1: What Im designing is a board that takes in the standard stepper pins (STEP/DIR/EN), uses a microprocessor to take in sensors for closed loop, and then correcting for any issues observed.
11:39 AM crankylinuxuser1: My BOM cost for this board is hovering around $12
11:40 AM crankylinuxuser1: Although with an addition of a full H driver, will be a bit more. But then it will allow using quadrature encoder/BLDC combos instead of steppers.
11:44 AM sync: crankylinuxuser1: if you are just putting your thing inbetween the command you are not able to drive a motor closed loop
11:44 AM crankylinuxuser1: Why do you say that?
11:45 AM sync: because you have direct control over the stator torque
11:45 AM sync: err, rotor torque
11:46 AM crankylinuxuser1: I'm failing to follow. All the control systems theory books Ive read indicates what I'm doing is closed loop.
11:47 AM archivist: you cannot with usual stepper driver increase the toque as needed
11:47 AM sync: if you want to build a servo system that is worth anything you need to do field oriented control of your motor
11:47 AM sync: and you are basically telling a position controller to move the position
11:47 AM crankylinuxuser1: Admittedly, I am acting within a 100KHz loop, but I can increase my timer interrupt as needed. And for the A4988 drivers, they operate on a 1us on/1us off, so 2 MHz is enough to accurately sample the max pulse speed.
11:48 AM sync: you have no direct control over the current in the motor
11:48 AM archivist: once the stepper cogs yoy have lost control
11:48 AM sync: yes
11:48 AM sync: once you have measured following error the only thing you can do is to estop
11:48 AM sync: but there is nothing else you can do with your system
11:48 AM crankylinuxuser1: That is one way to handle closed loop, yes, by measuring and controlling the EMF in the field coils.
11:50 AM sync: you don't measure the voltage, you measure the current that you are outputting
11:50 AM sync: and regulate that
11:50 AM sync: as this is the proportionality factor of torque
11:52 AM sync: what you can only do is tell your driver to go steps back/forward if you have following error or it missed a step
11:52 AM sync: but that is not what you want
11:52 AM sync: if that happens, you can only stop the machine
12:11 PM rene-dev: what you wat is foc for steppers
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: crankylinuxuser1: if you setup your system well you will not loos any step in a 8hr shift
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: even on high performance
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: as i mean 0,01accuracy and 0,05 precicion at 500mm/min Rapid
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: 5000
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: given it 3Nm at 48V
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: on a timingbelt Ballscrew setup
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: still working
12:31 PM gloops: yeah everything ok, not having much time to spend on the machine lately, will be on it at the weekend
12:33 PM gloops: got some interesting ply offcuts from woodyard today - id say 2mm or less thick
12:34 PM gloops: they come on pallets of thick ply from the east - on top as a covering
12:34 PM * Loetmichel is just mass murdering fruit flys. mus have overlooked some fruit in the kitchen. cant find the source of them. But a windex pump bottle full of 99.9% Isopropyl alcohol does the trick every time. you cant miss because of the "mist cone" and it dosent leave stains on anything... just refrain from smoking while spraying ;)
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: make nice sculps like Raptor ,butterfly ... or small lamps
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: lots of DXF for 2.4mm bits
12:42 PM gloops: yeah, tbh id never seen plywood that thin, i thought it was veneer, bloke said take as much as you want, we'll save it for you if you want it - will see if it makes anything useful
12:42 PM gloops: it is nice surface and grain
12:43 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: interesting - how many layers
12:44 PM SpeedEvil: Is veneer 1 layer plywood? :)
12:44 PM gloops: 2 i think SpeedEvil, it was in scrap bin - peices about 2.5 feet by 1.5 feet, i picked half a dozen up and put in van - still there
12:45 PM roycroft: if the isoproponol itself doesn't do the job, employ a cigarette lighter as well when you spray the critters
12:45 PM roycroft: that will absolutely eliminate the problem
12:45 PM gloops: SpeedEvil i guess it is yeah lol
12:47 PM SpeedEvil: Also great for small slightly curved bits if you laminate a couple
12:49 PM gloops: or inlays, yeah anything like that, think ill start collecting it
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: Air-Modell_scale plywood got 5 layers at 3mm thickness
12:53 PM SpeedEvil: I do sort of wish plywood class veneer was available cheaply
12:56 PM gloops: well might be worth checking the big woodyards who take a lot of sheet material, maybe it all comes with this kind of protective sheathing, but as i said never noticed it before
01:04 PM HighInBC: SpeedEvil: are you in all of the channels?
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: yes.
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: I'm actually an NSA chatbot.
01:05 PM HighInBC: we have at least 5 common channels, I think one of use may be following the other
01:25 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
02:06 PM Tom_itx: https://www.protolabs.com/
02:06 PM Tom_itx: ever hear of those guys?
02:25 PM gloops: anyone in uk wanting a cheap vfd - 1.5kw spindle - new
02:25 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5KW-Air-Cooled-Spindle-New-/142525034232?hash=item212f276ef8:g:vykAAOSwpOBZ0Uh5
03:18 PM HighInBC: how does one make a depth map of a non-conductive surface? some sort of probe I assume?
03:19 PM HighInBC: like how it is done for precise PCB milling, but for plastic
03:20 PM rob_h: force trigger probe instead of electrical... or 3D scanner like used on a CMM for example
03:21 PM syyl: <Tom_itx> https://www.protolabs.com
03:21 PM syyl: yes
03:21 PM syyl: we had some parts made by them
03:21 PM syyl: in a low-volume injection mold
03:21 PM HighInBC: rob_h: sounds like what I had in mind. Just having trouble finding it, I probably just need the right key word
03:23 PM rob_h: not sure what your doing.. if you want someone todo it for you or your self . a friendly shop that has the equipment might map it for you for small fee and give you a dxf or solid
03:23 PM andypugh: seb_kuzminsky: It’s debatable whether Issy is the authors name or the hardware name. He’s made a whole range of his own Hostmot2 and smart-serial hardware.
03:23 PM rob_h: or can do it on your linuxcnc machine if you have a probe
03:23 PM andypugh: But I do find the component name clumsy
03:24 PM HighInBC: I want to do very fine cuts in acrylic to make dragonfly wings for my dad who makes wooden dragonflies
03:25 PM HighInBC: the sheets are not exactly flat and I want the cuts to be very shallow
03:25 PM HighInBC: so I figured the PCB method of depth mapping first would be the way to go
03:26 PM rob_h: i now see what you need.. yes or vacuum chuck it flat
03:28 PM HighInBC: might as well get a probe, I am sure I can think of dozens of uses for it
03:29 PM rob_h: indeed no more setting the sheet square .. auto datum setting .. many more :)
03:34 PM sync: andypugh: I think it is his name
03:35 PM Loetmichel: hmpf... still sneezing gold. had to cut 20 sheets of 0,3mm brass to size today... with a dremal and cutting disks. took me 30 1,25" disks... and no dust mask... can one contract zinc fever from inhaling brass? doesent feel so well now... :-(
03:35 PM Loetmichel: dremel
03:36 PM gregcnc_: and you still work there?
03:36 PM syyl: lol
03:37 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc_: why not?
03:37 PM gregcnc_: it costs you more than you think
03:38 PM andypugh: Wikipedia: Metal fume fever, also known as brass founders' ague, brass shakes,[1] zinc shakes, galvie flu, metal dust fever, Welding Shivers, or Monday morning fever
03:38 PM DaViruz: Loetmichel: isn't a scissor more suitable for that?
03:38 PM DaViruz: or tin snips
03:38 PM Loetmichel: neglecting safety measures was my fault. we HAVE dust masks at the company. i just was to lazy to get one... and pay the price now.
03:39 PM Loetmichel: DaViruz: botwh would curl the edges. i needed them flat to fit on the vacuum table of the CNC
03:41 PM DaViruz: a metal shear then?
03:41 PM DaViruz: dremel cut off wheels are a pain in the ass in my opinion :)
03:42 PM gregcnc_: did they get you a pneumatic riveter yet?
03:43 PM gloops: bandsaw for brass sheet
03:44 PM HighInBC: oh boy, those touch probes are more expensive than I expected
03:44 PM sync: yeah, a renishaw omp40 is like $4k
03:48 PM Loetmichel: gloops: would have been ideal. but none at the company
03:48 PM andypugh: This one is $109. It isn’t as good as a Renishaw. http://www.wildhorse-innovations.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=80
03:48 PM gloops: you got the vector images for these designs HighInBC?
03:48 PM Loetmichel: and said sheets were THIN... PITA to cut with anything that has teeth
03:49 PM HighInBC: gloops: I have a stock svg for testing, but ultimately I want to start from photos of real wings
03:49 PM HighInBC: and possibly make a program to randomly vary them so no two are alike
03:50 PM gloops: well im sure you know how it works, but you can invert the images to BW and create a depth map, with varying success
03:51 PM gloops: (based on tones)
03:53 PM Jymmm: There is 3D carving, is uses gradient coloring for depth
03:56 PM gloops: linuxcnc has a greyscale to depthmap tool
03:56 PM DaViruz: andypugh: interesting! is there any specification on accuracy? i can't seem to find any
03:56 PM Jymmm: Scroll to RESULTS to see an example of the artwork (greyscale) and the actual results (in wood) http://www.kernlasers.com/applications/3d-laser-engraving/
03:57 PM gloops: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/image-to-gcode.html
03:57 PM Jymmm: it does take a LONG t time to generate the artwork
03:57 PM Jymmm: gloops: FWIW, iirc that's more 2.5D carving, not 3D
03:57 PM DaViruz: oh concentrícity is adjustable
03:58 PM gloops: have not tried it in linuxcnc, the vectric apps are good with it, but no so cheap, and you get varying results anyway, most are not idea
03:58 PM gloops: ideal
03:58 PM andypugh: I know nothing about them, I have a second-hand Renishaw
03:58 PM DaViruz: i'd like a probe
03:58 PM DaViruz: i'd like two probes actually
03:59 PM Jymmm: Even better examples of 3D carving artwork http://www.gantryco.com/tile-blocks-3d-laser-carving-graphics.html
03:59 PM DaViruz: andypugh: was it you that found a misspelled one on ebay for cheap?
03:59 PM sync: http://sync-hv.de/~tmp/omp40_tt160.jpg I have two probes
03:59 PM sync: three actually
04:00 PM andypugh: DaViruz: Indeed, my “Renshaw Probe”
04:00 PM andypugh: I have a TP200 too, but can’t figure it out.
04:00 PM Jymmm: $125 for the skull... http://www.gantryco.com/new-graphics.html
04:01 PM jdh: I've used several vectric apps. They are easy to use and the generated code is fine.
04:02 PM Jymmm: I have the KERN LASER boy fishing sample. It Is STUNNING and intricate details. It must have taken FOREVER to carve though, hours I'm guessing and it's only 3"x4"
04:02 PM gloops: yes they work well, vcarve is about $400 i think, aspire - quite a bit more
04:03 PM HighInBC: if it is just greyscale depth mapping then I will just pull out my perl image magick skillz
04:03 PM jdh: I bought cut-2d. It does pretty much all I wantt.
04:04 PM gloops: but there is no app that can give consistent 3d maps from a photo, i mean yeah shade and light does represent form/depth, but you might have a black cat on a white carpet - the app cant work the difference out
04:05 PM gloops: you can tweak the greyscale values in gimp - levels etc
04:05 PM Jymmm: HighInBC: These acrylic wings... what are you carving them with?
04:05 PM gloops: so the shadows get blacker and the highlights get whiter, to enhance the mapping, and increase the chances of a good result
04:06 PM HighInBC: I have this micro powder than gives a nice green/blue reflection depending on angle, was going to mix some into some kind of clear coat
04:07 PM HighInBC: meant for fingernails I think, but going to repurpose it to get a nice iridescence
04:08 PM HighInBC: might use polycarbonate instead of acrylic
04:08 PM HighInBC: will last longer
04:08 PM andypugh: Might be easier to farm dragonflies.
04:08 PM HighInBC: they are abundant
04:09 PM DaViruz: anyone know of a solution to this? http://emc-users.narkive.com/35W9sIdo/running-linuxcnc-without-mesa-cards
04:09 PM DaViruz: tldnr: running a mesa configuration on a machine without a mesa card for testing purposes
04:10 PM Jymmm: DaViruz: sim mode
04:11 PM andypugh: You could create a HAL component with all the same pin names as the Mesa-Card + firmware and none of the function.
04:12 PM andypugh: That would be (almost) as simple as copying the “show pin” into a .comp file.
04:12 PM andypugh: (maybe via excel to re-arrange columns)
04:12 PM Jymmm: Pretty... https://www.houzz.com/product/80171707-stunning-modern-contemporary-silver-metal-wall-art-hypnotic-sands-68x24x2-contemporary-metal-wall-art
04:12 PM gloops: try F-Engrave, that might be useful, freeware
04:13 PM HighInBC: looks like someone spend an hour iwth an angle grinder
04:14 PM gloops: difficult time consuming work, but some high roller would fork out top dollar for that
04:14 PM gloops: a one off kind of thing
04:16 PM gloops: ive got some apps on a windows laptop but its been installing updates for....a long time
04:19 PM andypugh: Maybe I earn too much, but those angle-grinder artworks look pretty cheap to me at $324
04:19 PM DaViruz: andypugh: that seems like the easiest and most long term solution actually. thanks
04:21 PM jdh: it's too cheap to be art
04:21 PM andypugh: Yeah :-)
04:22 PM andypugh: https://www.houzz.com/product/14093726-radiance-blues-4-panel-metal-wall-art-modern-wall-decor
04:22 PM gloops: not done by hand surely at that money
04:22 PM Deejay: gn8
04:22 PM andypugh: He says “I personally hand polish and grind the textures into the metal to create dramatic illusions of depth and dimension.”
04:22 PM gloops: our town paid a fortune for a stupid tin heart sculpture with some grinder marks on it
04:23 PM andypugh: He’s probably an artistic welder who reckons $100 an hour is OK money.
04:23 PM jdh: and materials
04:23 PM andypugh: Yeah, that’s the other $60
04:24 PM gloops: could do that with a wire brush scuffer in cnc router spindle
04:25 PM jdh: panels are like 8"x24"
04:25 PM gloops: well, maybe haha
04:25 PM evilroot: The price of art is subjective
04:26 PM gloops: look at those original oil paintings from china $20
04:26 PM andypugh: I have a friend who was a weddign photographer. He wanted to work less, so doubled his prices. Orders wnet up. He doubled them again. Guess what.
04:26 PM evilroot: Yep
04:26 PM gloops: they get some kid painting some clear gel over a printed canvas
04:26 PM evilroot: Price creates an illusion of quality and scarcity
04:27 PM * evilroot practically grew up in an artsist studio complex
04:27 PM gloops: cant see a lawyer hiring a £200 wedding photographer for his daughters big day
04:27 PM evilroot: My father is a sculptor and works in steel and other industrial material
04:27 PM evilroot: That metal wall art is damned cheap for what it is . . . .
04:28 PM gloops: got to be machined evilroot
04:28 PM gloops: maybe finished by hand but got to be stencilled at least by machine
04:28 PM evilroot: Not at all
04:28 PM evilroot: I've seen my father do similar things by hand
04:28 PM gloops: those patterns arent done by eye theyre algorythms
04:28 PM jdh: probably really quickly
04:28 PM andypugh: Ben is/was a particularly _good_ wedding photographer, look at this album. http://www.beautifullytold.com/wedding/
04:29 PM evilroot: Its likely he does an overlay and marks with pencil/etc
04:29 PM evilroot: Pretty common
04:29 PM evilroot: Or perhaps even uses a stencil
04:30 PM gloops: pretty good images there andypugh
04:30 PM evilroot: But nothing about it looks overly artificial
04:30 PM evilroot: I've seen artists do very similar with things like paint, using a grinder isn't much of a strech
04:31 PM evilroot: Heck I kind of want one
04:31 PM jdh: I've seen them make the same one over and over with spray paint
04:31 PM evilroot: Yeah
04:32 PM andypugh: I thinnk the $160 one I like is three stripes of blue spray, then an overlay of black all over, then go at it with the wire wheel.
04:32 PM evilroot: The use of color is great, really striking and beautiful pieces
04:32 PM andypugh: evilroot: Yes, I am actually tempted myself.
04:34 PM andypugh: gloops: The same guy took some excellent pics of my Ner-a-Car too: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/stowe-maries-photos.html
04:34 PM evilroot: Nifty
04:34 PM gloops: nice bike
04:35 PM andypugh: YOu seem to have mis-spelled “mad"
04:36 PM gloops: i guess it only wheelies in 1st
04:37 PM andypugh: With 2.25hp and a clutch that takes 3 turns of a twist-drip to engage, it is guaranteed impossible to wheely.
04:39 PM Tom_L: take it you've tried :)
04:39 PM andypugh: I have never even _tried_ to wheely my R1. But sometimes it just happens.
04:40 PM Tom_L: quite a contrast going from one to the other
04:40 PM cradek: andypugh: if you can keep it running, what's the range of that bike? that looks like 3? 4? gallons of fuel
04:40 PM JT-Shop: the BlueWing is the only bike I never tried to wheelie...
04:43 PM cradek: pretty sure I have never wheelied a bike
04:44 PM cradek: I have had them range from 175 to 1100cc
04:45 PM andypugh: cradek: I think that is a question best answered by Erwin “Cannonball” Baker who crossed the US abd went 3,364 miles on 45 gallons of fuel.
04:45 PM cradek: 74 mpg! and how many gallons does it hold?
04:47 PM andypugh: I don’t actually know (embarassed emoji)
04:47 PM cradek: heh
04:47 PM cradek: sure looks like more than the 2.5ish I'm used to
04:47 PM gregcnc_: doesn't a grom get 100mpg?
04:50 PM hazzy: NICE bike Andy!
04:51 PM andypugh: cradek: The manual doesn’t seem to say: http://www.geutskens.eu/neracar/neracar_manual.htm
04:53 PM andypugh: hazzy: I have a full rebuild blog if you are easily amused and have hours to kill: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/1921-ner-car.html
04:53 PM andypugh: And just keep clicking the links on the right.
04:53 PM hazzy: I've been reading! Thanks
04:54 PM hazzy: And I can make hours to kill for this sort of reading!
05:02 PM cradek: haha the clutch and petrol and air and gearshift controls all need to be simultaneously hand-operated
05:02 PM cradek: "This can only be learned by experience."
05:03 PM andypugh: Yes, that was back when manufacturers had confidence in the abilities of their customoers.
05:04 PM cradek: wellll
05:04 PM cradek: If the Machine STOPS, 1. See if there is petrol in the tank.
05:06 PM andypugh: With no gauge, that seems like the first of many, many possible things to check.
05:06 PM cradek: heh check your point gap with a thin visiting card
05:06 PM andypugh: 2. Have you run in to a horse.
05:07 PM sync: You should EFI it ;)
05:08 PM gloops: nitrous
05:08 PM andypugh: cradek: They were selling to the wealthy. One advert says “just as the motor launch is used when the yacht is too much trouble, the Ner-a-Car can be used wnen it is not worth getting out the large Motor"
05:09 PM cradek: ha that's wonderful
05:09 PM gloops: i would think cap and..folded Daily Telegraph under the arm?
05:10 PM andypugh: If you want to step back to that era, I recently very much enjoyed: https://www.amazon.com/American-Flashman-Papers-George-MacDonald/dp/0006470181/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507153141&sr=8-1&keywords=the+american+flashman
05:14 PM andypugh: Though there was a special resonance with that book for me because I was reading it at the same time as commuting up the I95 towards Tonopah (where the tititular character found his silver) every day.
05:15 PM andypugh: gloops: You make a good point. Every Ner-a-Car advert has the rider with something tucked under their arm to show what sort of chap or chap-ess they are. Golf-clubs, tennis racquets, shotguns..
05:16 PM andypugh: In the days when there was no advertising standards agency: http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/ner-a-car/images/Ner-a-Car-Model-A-Advert.jpg
05:17 PM gloops: just seems like it would be the done thing Andy..
05:17 PM andypugh: “actually safer than a car because the ner-a-car can _not_ skid”
05:19 PM gloops: as no brakes? lol
05:19 PM andypugh: The theory being that because the centre of gravity of the machine (minus rider) is below the wheel spindles (it is) it can’t skid (that’s just wrong)
05:19 PM gloops: well bedtime here
05:31 PM DaViruz: hm, is there a way to use underscore in names when using halcompile?
05:32 PM DaViruz: the documentation kind of suggests there isn't :/
05:33 PM hazzy: I think dashes are converted to underscores
05:34 PM hazzy: It has been a while though ...
05:35 PM DaViruz: nope :/
05:35 PM DaViruz: underscores are converted to dashes, dashes seem unaffected
05:35 PM hazzy: You mean in the file name?
05:35 PM DaViruz: no, in pin and parameter names
05:35 PM hazzy: I just checked and I I have several comps that have names with underscores
05:36 PM DaViruz: i do too.
05:36 PM hazzy: Oh, want the underscores to stay after compile?
05:36 PM DaViruz: yeah
05:37 PM hazzy: hmm, that does not seem possible, I think I used to know the reason why
05:38 PM DaViruz: i guess i will have to rewrite the darn thing in python then
05:38 PM hazzy: Why do you need underscores?
05:39 PM DaViruz: i'm making a component that will replace another component, and i want it to work seamlessly with existing hal files
05:39 PM hazzy: Ah, makes sense
05:40 PM hazzy: How was the initial component generated?
05:40 PM DaViruz: not sure. it's the hm2_pci component
05:40 PM hazzy: Thanks. Will look
05:42 PM DaViruz: seems light straight up C
05:42 PM hazzy: It is
05:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:43 PM hazzy: Can you just copy and modify that file?
05:43 PM hazzy: I think halcompile can be used for strait c as well, but not certain
05:44 PM DaViruz: not easily, it's way complicated compared to what i want to do. i just want to generate all the pins, params and such, but they don't need to do anything.
05:44 PM DaViruz: i just want to be able to run hm2-configurations on a virtual machine basically
05:45 PM hazzy: ok
05:45 PM DaViruz: would be nice if the real hm2_pci component had an option like that. maybe i should just add one
05:46 PM hazzy: seb_kuzminsky: Why are underscores in pin names converted to dashes with halcompile?
05:46 PM rene-dev: hi andypugh
05:46 PM rene-dev: hazzy because hal does not support underscores I think
05:47 PM DaViruz: sure it does
05:47 PM andypugh: Other way round. Dashes “-“ in C namespace become minus operators
05:48 PM DaViruz: hm
05:48 PM phipli: JT-Shop, sent you an email
05:48 PM andypugh: The “standard” is that all pin names use dashes.
05:49 PM James is now known as Guest22642
05:51 PM andypugh: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/canonical-devices.html
05:51 PM Tom_L: andypugh, back on brittish time?
05:51 PM andypugh: A widely, and generally, ignored standard
05:52 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Nearly
05:53 PM andypugh: According to wikipedia my 7 time zone west-to-east trip was the worst possible. It felt it.
05:53 PM Tom_L: those were some nice pics of the ner-a-car he took...
05:54 PM Guest22642: Hi again folks! I've been at spindle control for a few days now and got encoder feedback working. I still can't seem to get the stepgen output to go to my "step" physical pin. I've tried scoping the pin in halscope and get no step output on it (so I'm assuming it's not my hardware at this stage). https://pastebin.com/yBNKN4tQ
05:54 PM andypugh: Yes, he is a professional photographer. You should see his underdressed ladies. They pay him.
05:54 PM Tom_L: hah
05:55 PM Tom_L: Guest22642 you sure you're on the right pin?
05:55 PM Tom_L: dmesg to get a function list of the pins
05:56 PM Guest22642: I'm halscoping "spindle-pwm" signal
05:57 PM DaViruz: i don't understand how the plain c components export pin names and such
05:57 PM DaViruz: maybe i'd better get some sleep instead
05:58 PM Guest22642: Signals: Type Value Name (linked to) bit FALSE spindle-pwm ==> parport.0.pin-08-out <== stepgen.3.step
05:58 PM Guest22642: eeek, formating, sorry
05:58 PM andypugh: Guest22642: Check that the “writer’ pin is using exactly the same signal name.
06:00 PM andypugh: That looks OK, when it’s all on one line you can’t get the signal name wrong
06:00 PM Guest22642: I'm thinking it's the connection between commanded rpm and stepgen
06:00 PM Guest22642: but I just can't spot it
06:00 PM andypugh: Though… A stepgen isn’t a good PWM….
06:00 PM Guest22642: I've got a driver that accepts step/dir
06:00 PM Guest22642: I started trying pwmgen
06:00 PM Guest22642: and gave up
06:01 PM andypugh: No, if the spindle hardware actually wants steps, that’s fine
06:01 PM andypugh: Amything connected to stepgen.3.enable?
06:02 PM Guest22642: I figured dir/PDM mode would work, but I struck similar issues. One sec, will check stepgen.3.enable
06:02 PM andypugh: (open a terminal and just type halcmd setp stepgen.3.enable 1 )
06:04 PM Guest22642: ahahah, I now have a super-slow step output
06:04 PM Guest22642: good catch, thanks! now I just need to find out how to get that calibrated correctly
06:04 PM Guest22642: :)
06:04 PM Guest22642: thanks for the pointer, I'm off to tinker
06:05 PM andypugh: OK, setp stepgen.3.velocity-scale <some number>
06:05 PM andypugh: (if, and only if, that stepgen is set to velocity mode)
06:05 PM Guest22642: :) ah man you folk are so helpful! (it is vel mode)
06:06 PM andypugh: Yoiu want to net that enable pin to motion.spindle.is-on (check spelling with halcmd show pin motion.spindle*)
06:07 PM Tom_L: hah now you're causing him to lose sleep
06:09 PM Guest22642: hmmm ok I was going to net enable with motion.spindle-on
06:09 PM Guest22642: I guess that's the one
06:10 PM andypugh: Yes, trust your HAL, not my inexact memory of HAL pin names
06:11 PM Guest22642: ah I think it's position-scale rather than velocity scale
06:12 PM Guest22642: even if it's a vel control
06:12 PM andypugh: There might be a halui.spindle.is-on but typically the motion,xxx ones are to be preferred as they are in the realtime layer whilst halui pins are in the user layer
06:14 PM Tom_L: good to know
06:14 PM Tom_L: i wish there was a doc explaining the layers
06:14 PM Tom_L: (maybe there is)
06:15 PM andypugh: I think you are right. Velocity mode has a velocity input, but it is is still positiion-scale for the scale. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
06:15 PM DaViruz: halcompile actuall lets me keep the underscore in component, but not in pin or param. hm
06:15 PM Guest22642: not clear as to whether scale value larger makes it slower or faster. (scales period or frequency). I'm jsut trying a few options
06:16 PM andypugh: It is steps-per-rev
06:17 PM andypugh: So, probably lower steps for faster, but we can’t even guess the scale from here
06:19 PM seb_kuzminsky: hazzy: i think jmk's shift key was broken when he wrote that code
06:19 PM seb_kuzminsky: err, or jepler
06:19 PM andypugh: DaViruz: Pins and params, in comp can use either - or _ in their names, which are just strings. But in the C-code they all become _ because Cc always sees - as a subtraction operator.
06:21 PM andypugh: seb_kuzminsky: I wish I knew what prompted that.
06:21 PM hazzy: seb_kuzminsky: haha, that is what is looks like! Thanks
06:22 PM andypugh: halcompile uses capitalisation and macro substitution in a cunning but scary way.
06:22 PM Guest22642: OK I have some steps - they're behaving oddly but I'll figure it out now I have some output! Much appreciated Andy/Tom
06:23 PM andypugh: like FUNCTION(_) macro-expands both FUNCTION and _ (I think)
06:24 PM * JT-Shop chickens out and heads inside
06:24 PM hazzy: :D
06:24 PM andypugh: Is that bad?
06:25 PM andypugh: I know they don’t really need their heads, but…]
06:25 PM andypugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken
06:27 PM DaViruz: andypugh: however halcompile changes every underscore to a dash
06:27 PM andypugh: _only_ in the C-code
06:28 PM andypugh: Sorry, no
06:28 PM andypugh: Are you saying that pin-names with _ become the same pin name with - ?
06:29 PM DaViruz: yep
06:29 PM andypugh: That’s new
06:29 PM andypugh: You sure?
06:30 PM DaViruz: very
06:31 PM andypugh: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/canonical-devices.html says that is the standard, but I don’t think it was enforced
06:33 PM DaViruz: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html#_syntax
06:33 PM DaViruz: the table a bit down
06:34 PM andypugh: Yes, but that is all about how the pin names become C variables to work with,
06:35 PM DaViruz: http://meeep.net/VirtualBox_Linuxcnc_05_10_2017_01_03_06.png
06:35 PM andypugh: So, My_Pin[1[ becomes My_Pin(1) in the C-cpde
06:36 PM andypugh: Your pin-name as exposed to HAL is still My_Pin
06:36 PM DaViruz: see screenshot.
06:38 PM andypugh: Ah, where were we, What did the cat type on my keyboard in the last severla minutes?
06:39 PM andypugh: I didn’t think it did that.
06:40 PM andypugh: use halcompile —preprocess, edit the pin names, then halcompile the c file
06:42 PM DaViruz: that's an excellent idea!
06:52 PM DaViruz: andypugh: worked a treat! that was a very convenient solution. thanks again
06:53 PM andypugh: Glad it worked. I am surprised that halcompile does that. File a bug report,
06:53 PM DaViruz: well it is documented that it does that
06:54 PM DaViruz: the table i posted, the rightmost column is the resulting HAL identifier
06:59 PM andypugh: I thought that “HALNAME” was the name in HAL
06:59 PM andypugh: We need to ask jepler
07:00 PM DaViruz: now i really need to go to bed though
07:15 PM andypugh: Me too. Night all
07:47 PM jdh: hey, I just got an email, Harbor Freight is having a sale!
07:47 PM BeachBumPete: hehe
08:52 PM hazzy: jdh: Same here. A coupon for a free "$10.64 value" (more like $0.99) flashlight, but I already have too many of those :D
09:30 PM absynth is now known as dan2wik
09:31 PM jdh: I was kidding, in case that wasn't obvious
09:42 PM hazzy: jdn: it was, lol