#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 01 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:28 AM hazzy: That tool changer must have been designed by Rube Goldberg
01:31 AM hazzy: gn8
02:12 AM Deejay: moin
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: good morning from a fog thick germany
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: #F1 starts right ahead
02:44 AM Deejay: thats fake news. i can't see any fog here in germany
03:35 AM Wolfmetalfab is now known as Wolf__
03:59 AM gloops: right then, time to get this thing paying something back
04:01 AM archivist: heh
04:02 AM gloops: rough guess, its taken 500 hours of my time, if i pay myself minimum wage for that time, thats about £3500 + £300 on hardware
04:02 AM archivist: gloops, by the way have you seen the wooden gears site and its generator
04:02 AM gloops: yes looked at that archivist
04:03 AM gloops: same problem though with square internals
04:03 AM gloops: i have got an app that does gears for profile cutting but it only runs on windows, wont run on wine, ill use that when i get windows on a drive
04:04 AM archivist: only way to get square internals is cut the shape in the other direction
04:04 AM archivist: like http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
04:05 AM gloops: yes, you can use fillets or mousebites as someone called them, thats also an issue with the apps i have though, they only apply them to corners
04:06 AM archivist: never heard of mousebites and I make gears!
04:07 AM archivist: that one is cycloidal form
04:07 AM Vq_ is now known as Vq
04:07 AM gloops: hmm, they probably do use them in metal, you run the cutter into the corner so it travels beyond the space required for the gear tooth to fit
04:07 AM gloops: also used for dovetail joints
04:08 AM archivist: overrun is plain crap method
04:09 AM archivist: I saw you mention education, rounded form does not matter there
04:09 AM gloops: no doesnt matter what shape gears really
04:11 AM gloops: its not a paying thing anyway - just to help someone out, i dunno though, wooden gears are probably saleable, used for decorations and stuff
04:11 AM IchGucksLive: hi
04:11 AM gloops: morning
04:12 AM gloops: archivist to cut the other way you need a rotary axis
04:12 AM archivist: yup
04:12 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: heeks can do you a perfect gear
04:12 AM gloops: or mechanical indexing system
04:13 AM gloops: Ichs for profile cutting?
04:13 AM archivist: I got my rotary going before Y
04:13 AM IchGucksLive: yrc yu can get redy made rotory
04:14 AM gloops: ive got everything to make a rotary, in fact enough to make 2
04:14 AM archivist: dont get a crap rotary if you want to make good gears
04:14 AM gloops: old myford wood lathe, also got a spare lathe tailstock and something i could use as a headstock
04:15 AM IchGucksLive: a precice worm 100:1 is best to go
04:15 AM IchGucksLive: if you need more go 90:1
04:15 AM IchGucksLive: gives you a better accuracy
04:16 AM gloops: i wont be cutting gears for any practical application
04:17 AM IchGucksLive: better to by them at all http://www.maedler.de/
04:17 AM IchGucksLive: all stuff within 24h
04:17 AM IchGucksLive: http://www.maedler.de/product/1643/1618/stirnzahnraeder-gerade-verzahnt
04:18 AM gloops: whats your opinion on rack and pinion drive Ichs?
04:18 AM IchGucksLive: i use T10
04:19 AM IchGucksLive: on plasma
04:19 AM gloops: any good for wood?
04:19 AM IchGucksLive: it also fits wood
04:19 AM IchGucksLive: http://www.maedler.de/product/1643/1618/2130/zahnstangen-stahl-mit-metrischer-teilung-5mm-und-10mm
04:20 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMiFak1TiyI THIS is the 3Meter mashine
04:21 AM gloops: probably the best option once you get beyond the practical limits of screws
04:21 AM gloops: although i see they use very long screws and turn the nut instead
04:22 AM gloops: 3 metre ballscrew will be pricey
04:22 AM IchGucksLive: the precision is well below 0,1
04:23 AM IchGucksLive: i use precision worm gear at 30:1
04:23 AM IchGucksLive: 400Steps/rev * 30:1 =12000Steps on worm out
04:24 AM IchGucksLive: this fits a 12T10 Gear Rack pinion
04:24 AM IchGucksLive: as Modul 10 Times teeth 12*10
04:24 AM IchGucksLive: gives you a 0,01 precicion
04:25 AM IchGucksLive: well done at max speed Stepers you can go 4800mm at 750 ACC
04:25 AM IchGucksLive: safe rate
04:25 AM IchGucksLive: max risk wil lbring you 12m/min
04:25 AM gloops: like lightning lol
04:26 AM IchGucksLive: on 7i76 at max 72V on 14m cable length
04:26 AM IchGucksLive: im off just in corn harvest needs my person to be showing up
04:26 AM IchGucksLive: old and gray but whise
04:26 AM IchGucksLive: later
06:55 AM jthornton: morning
08:08 AM Tom_L: quiet morning
08:14 AM JT-Shop: yep
08:26 AM JT-Shop: cold enough to wear a long sleeve shirt this morning :)
08:35 AM Tom_L: 63
08:52 AM Jymmm: 54F
08:59 AM Jymmm: ripping/reauthoring dvd's... no problem. Ripping CD's... eeeesh
09:01 AM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Do you just use MP3, or FLAC too?
09:07 AM malcom2073: I've come to the conclusion that DVD writers weren't meant to actually write dvds
09:07 AM malcom2073: I get about a 50% success rate on writing, and reading usually after a couple hundred they tend to start failing. I've gone through like 4 dvd writers in the past year
09:08 AM malcom2073: It got down to the low 40's here last night, only barely 50 now
09:15 AM hazzy: morning
09:15 AM hazzy: it is beautiful out, in the mid 50s even here in the deep south
09:34 AM Loetmichel: malcom2073: a couple hundred written DVDs is possibly the limit the laser can endure for the cheap writers
09:35 AM malcom2073: Loetmichel: Nah, a couple of hundred *read*, maybe 10-15 written
09:35 AM malcom2073: the 50% failure rate is what really kills me though, when dual layer dvds are so epensive
09:35 AM Loetmichel: reading shouldnt age the laser at all
09:35 AM Loetmichel: is it maybe particulary dusty where you live?
09:36 AM malcom2073: Perhaps
09:37 AM Loetmichel: at the company i have so far noticed that the cheap writers ( around $20) endure only about 100 to 200 writes, then start to fail inclreasing large percentages of writes. to the point that they dont even read correctly any more at about 500++ writes.
09:39 AM malcom2073: Dust could very well be a contributor. I've pretty much gave up on writing for now, just reading... but I'm still having to buy a new reader every 6 months or so heh
09:39 AM Loetmichel: We even have one machine (that usually does Driver DVDs for our machines when we sell them) that had worked its way to about 2 dozen writers by now ;)
10:20 AM HighInBC: admit it, you are churning out spiderman bootlegs
10:20 AM HighInBC: ;)
10:21 AM HighInBC: imagine there was once a time when storing our movies on polished mirrors was considered a good idea
10:30 AM hazzy: imagine there was once a time when storing our movies on long strips of magnetic tape was considered a good idea :D
10:32 AM James is now known as Guest49002
10:33 AM Guest49002: Hi folks! Does anyone here have any experience using a velocity stepgen in quadrature mode to work as spindle?
10:33 AM Guest49002: I've been battling away all day
10:35 AM Guest49002: I've set up a 4th axis stepgen in 2,v mode but I'm getting a "Joint 3 following error"
10:35 AM Guest49002: I'm guessing it's expecting feedback to know it has a following error but right now I can't even seem to get the physical pins to change
10:40 AM JT-Shop: Guest49002: post your hal file on http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and paste the link
10:46 AM Guest49002: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25654194/
10:46 AM Guest49002: it was modified from a stepconf generated one
10:47 AM Guest49002: I think I'm missing a concept
10:49 AM archivist: line 81 seems to be for the wrong number 2 instead of 3?
10:49 AM Guest49002: certainly is, good spot, but I only just added that to try to complete the set
10:49 AM Guest49002: I'll give it a spin, one sec
10:50 AM archivist: rather long setup and hold times on the others
10:50 AM HighInBC: on an umarked lever based microswitch, I assume the common pin is the centre, and the normally closed will be next to the fulcrum and the normally open opposite of the fulcrum. Is this assumption correct? I don't have it to physically test yet, just getting ahead on my design
10:50 AM archivist: HighInBC, possibly see datasheet/measure the real thing
10:51 AM HighInBC: I will surely check before installing them, once they get here
10:51 AM HighInBC: just figured there might be a standard. Mechanically it seems that way would make sense
10:52 AM archivist: never expect switches to be standard, depends how they are made
10:52 AM Guest49002: archivist - the rest on mine are guff, the axes are not connected at all. I've got the BOB and the spindle servo controller connected and nothing else.
10:53 AM Guest49002: and no luck with changing 2 to 3
10:53 AM HighInBC: the microswitches my CNC came with are jenky. They look like they will break if you look at them funny, they are only attached with one screw and will move if pushed, they hair thin wire was broken in two points, they are arranged as normally open so if the wire breaks the limit just won't go off, and the gantry will run over the wires as arranged
10:54 AM HighInBC: sooo, need to improve that situation
10:54 AM HighInBC: better switches, proper wire, wire arranged so it won't get run over, and normally closed makes more sense to me
10:55 AM HighInBC: other than that the frame is fairly well mounted
10:55 AM archivist: Guest49002, careful with acceleration rate v top speed
10:56 AM HighInBC: the psu/driver box was okay other than some poorly mounted psus(only 2 screws instead of 4) and a loose spindle speed adjuster knob
10:56 AM Guest49002: oop. Accel and top speed are nominal just now, without feedback I'm not sure why it's triggering a following error
10:56 AM HighInBC: I expected a lot worse really, at least this is all easily fixed
10:57 AM HighInBC: other than that the frame is fairly well wired - I meant to say
10:58 AM archivist: Guest49002, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/stepper-diagnostics.html
11:06 AM Guest49002: OK I pulled the definition out of the ini and changed some values massively and I seem to have got the following error to vanish http://paste.ubuntu.com/25654311/ - now to figure out why my pins are not changing!
11:06 AM Guest49002: thanks for the link to the diagnostics - that was handy
11:07 AM pcw_home: Also AFAIK you cannot use reset on quadrature outputs
11:07 AM Guest49002: ooh
11:09 AM pcw_home: Pretty sure you will get following errors because stepgen3's feedback is not connected
11:10 AM Guest49002: removed reset, no following errors now unless I go nuts trying to jog the axis
11:11 AM Guest49002: does velocity control require feedback?
11:11 AM pcw_home: AFAIK yes
11:11 AM Guest49002: I'd expect to see at least a few blinks before it complained though?
11:12 AM Guest49002: I'll dig deeper
11:12 AM Guest49002: thanks for the pointer
11:13 AM pcw_home: I dont see the link between motions spindle speed output and the stepgens velocity command either
11:23 AM Guest49002: pcw_home i havent tried linking spindle speed yet, i was treating it as a raw axis
11:23 AM Guest49002: just jogging it like I would an X stepper
11:44 AM Loetmichel: *FINALLY*. Got the fog lights mounted to the 318i convertible... MAAN what a hassle when you have no lift to get to it from below. And free advice for germans: If you buy car parts off Ebay, check if there are light bulbs provided with them... paid two times 12.95€ for the two H1 bulbs at the gas station :-(
12:33 PM evilroot: Oooh, e46 frame?
12:47 PM Loetmichel: e36
12:48 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16709&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:48 PM Loetmichel: @ evilroot
12:51 PM evilroot: Nice, I used to have the same one in white!
12:51 PM evilroot: Have an e46 325i sedan now, much easier to work on
01:26 PM Loetmichel: evilroot: its actually pretty easy to work on. IF you have a car lift or an inspeciotn pit
01:27 PM Loetmichel: its a pita when the front end is lowered and you can only get to the screws from below. because from above the main headlights are in the way
02:00 PM gloops: lol
02:01 PM gloops: modern cars, where you have to drop the engine to change the air filter
02:12 PM Loetmichel: gloops: more like pull the battery to change the headlight bulb ;)
02:13 PM Loetmichel: and its anything but modern.
02:13 PM Loetmichel: built in 1999
02:21 PM gloops: the general trend is to reduce the lifespan by making repairs impractical
02:34 PM Loetmichel: the local mechanic that did the engine swap on mine (original engine threw a rod) charged 1100 eur for it. used 1.8 liter -> used 1.8 liter... but different intake manifold, so he had to improvise a bit.
02:34 PM Loetmichel: so its not THAT expensive to work with
02:34 PM Loetmichel: and being in germany where the BMWs are manufactured the price for spare parts is surprisingly cheap
02:35 PM Loetmichel: that car wasnt SO cheap to repair though, was expected for a 900 eur convertible on the other hand. just the exploded engine bit me a bit...
02:36 PM Loetmichel: https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/843554.html <- thats all i invested into it to date.
02:37 PM Loetmichel: [19:02] <evilroot> Oooh, e46 frame?
02:37 PM Loetmichel: [19:16] <Loetmichel> e36
02:37 PM Loetmichel: [19:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16709&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:37 PM Loetmichel: uuups. that should have been in the query. sorry
03:07 PM sadisticroot: Hrm
03:23 PM gloops: well that car is borderline Loet, they were still making honest motors then
04:07 PM Deejay: gn8
04:52 PM enleth: what would be the best padding material between a cast iron machine base and a dedicated steel pallet the machine is screwed onto?
04:52 PM enleth: rubber? cork? polyurethane resin? nothing at all?
04:54 PM enleth: what anti-vibration feet I could find that listed any materials are made from nitrile rubber
04:59 PM JT-Shop: need to check the load capacity of the feet to make sure they exceed the machine weight
05:00 PM enleth: kinda obvious for the feet, I'm thinking about flat padding between two metal surfaces now, though
05:02 PM enleth: tl;dr the bridgeport doesn't fit onto an europallet very well and is kinda wobbly on a wooden pallet anyway, even a high quality new one
05:02 PM enleth: so I need a steel base that is compatible with a pallet jack
05:03 PM JT-Shop: ah I see, I would just bolt it down tight to the steel pallet
05:06 PM enleth: that's an option too
05:06 PM enleth: I might actually put actual leveling feet in the corner blocks of the "pallet"
05:09 PM JT-Shop: yea that would be a good idea if your floor is not level
05:09 PM enleth: this floor is absolutely anything BUT level
05:10 PM enleth: "euclidean" is about the only thing you can say for sure about its shape
05:11 PM * JT-Shop attempts to catch up on the books :(
05:16 PM james is now known as Guest25103
06:02 PM Tom_L: yup, end of quarter...
06:08 PM JT-Shop: I do mine monthly sometimes lol
06:08 PM Roguish: ah, just received my property tax bill...............oh, joy.
06:11 PM JT-Shop: kinda early in the year for that?
06:11 PM JT-Shop: I get mine in november
06:11 PM Roguish: not in California
06:11 PM Roguish: how go the chickens?
06:11 PM JT-Shop: dang this is going to be a awesome batch of Texas Red
06:11 PM sadisticroot: mmmm
06:12 PM JT-Shop: chickens are doing very well and are very friendly
06:12 PM sadisticroot: Using chuck?
06:12 PM Roguish: fryers or roasters? or layers?
06:13 PM JT-Shop: 9 Rhode Island Red hens and 1 Barred Rock rooster
06:13 PM JT-Shop: the RIR are large brown egg layers
06:13 PM Roguish: ok.
06:14 PM JT-Shop: the BR is because they are very friendly natured and I really liked his predecessor Henry Sr
06:15 PM Roguish: what's up with the local dogs? still hanging around?
06:15 PM Roguish: or did you take em out?
06:16 PM JT-Shop: I killed one and still hunting the other one... just a matter of time
06:16 PM JT-Shop: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens-2/chicken-run-06.jpg
06:16 PM JT-Shop: chicken fort knox
06:16 PM Roguish: fancy, looking like the Ritz
06:17 PM Tom_L: all it needs is a cannon in front
06:17 PM JT-Shop: neighbor has reduced the dog population on her rode to 2
06:17 PM JT-Shop: I'm thinking gatlin gun at each corner
06:23 PM JT-Shop: or road even
06:30 PM Tom_L: just noticed the other day Dassault Systems put a building up on our uni campus as part of their innovation campus
06:31 PM Tom_L: i knew buildings were going up but didn't see any shingle until recently
06:32 PM Tom_L: https://www.3ds.com/about-3ds/3dexperience-center-network/wichita/
06:33 PM Tom_L: used to be the campus golf course
06:43 PM hazzy: Tom_L: I have mixed feelings about Dassault Systems, but that is pretty cool!
07:04 PM jdh: I have bad feelings about Dassault, but I use draftsight
07:52 PM hazzy: I have not found any decent alternative to Solidworks and HSMWorks for design and CAM, but boy would I like to
07:54 PM hazzy: And I wasted a bunch of time/money getting there useless certifications, when I did not know better
07:54 PM hazzy: nuf about Dassault :D
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: you have get up to at least Grand Poobah 9th class to be worthwhile :)
08:25 PM Tom_L: catia is used heavily around here
08:26 PM CaptHindsight: big with the aero co's
08:26 PM Tom_L: plenty of them here
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: i have other customers that only use NX
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: and others only ProE?Creo
08:28 PM Tom_L: for cad cam, catia is lacking imo
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: I never tried the included CAM
08:28 PM Tom_L: the cam side is too complicated
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://discovery.hgdata.com/product/dassault-catia
08:32 PM Tom_L: https://discovery.hgdata.com/product/autodesk-fusion-360
08:33 PM gregcnc: paid F360 licenses?
08:34 PM Tom_L: according to their revenue they would be
08:37 PM enleth: it costs peanuts anyway if you're making any real money with it
08:38 PM Tom_L: from all i've seen F360 is still a work in progress
08:39 PM enleth: kinda, yes
08:39 PM enleth: definitely lacks a lot of Inventor's features, can't say how it compares to other CADs
08:41 PM enleth: however the bundled CAM is, as far as I can tell, actually a full HSM kernel hidden behind a simplified GUI
08:42 PM enleth: or something very close to actual HSM
08:42 PM gregcnc: I'm going to try some CAM in F360. i've been using HSMXpress in SW so it's familiar
08:43 PM enleth: it is able to use HSM postprocessors if you manually put them in a proper directory
08:43 PM gregcnc: yeah i found one for the lathe recently
08:46 PM gregcnc: I have enough of my work in SW now I can't see myself changing
08:47 PM enleth: FWIW, F360 has recently gotten a solid modeling mode that can sort of deal with SW-genrated files
08:48 PM enleth: and modify solids in a way that, if I understand the SW work model properly, is more similar to SW than the default timeline-based editing
09:17 PM hazzy: F360 seems to do very well importing SW models these days
09:17 PM hazzy: but just don't get the F360 work flow, especially for making/editing complex assemblies
09:47 PM enleth: there are a couple extremely frustrating dependency/structure bugs too
09:48 PM enleth: if you're not careful about having the proper object/assembly always selected in the tree, and start creating stuff under a wrong object, you are in for some fun time trying to move it where it belongs
09:49 PM enleth: with error messages telling you that you can't because there are dependencies, but no info whatsoever as to what depends on what
09:49 PM enleth: and why
09:49 PM Tom_L: like a sub assembly?
09:50 PM enleth: bonus points to Autodesk for having the error message written in extremely bad English, looks like some Indian developer wrote it and never got it through a native speaker QA before release
09:51 PM enleth: Tom_L: like creating *anything* under an object it wasn't supposed to be a child of
09:51 PM enleth: if there's a single thing I'd tell anyone starting out with F360, it's to watch out for this, all the time
09:52 PM enleth: pre-create the assembly structure as much as possible, don't assume you'll be able to move stuff around freely after you create it
09:53 PM enleth: it goes double for moving sketches around, trying to have them in the most "specific" place possible
09:53 PM enleth: sometimes there's just no discernible reason for it to refuse to move something and all you get is this shit error message
09:54 PM sync: hm, I did not notice stuff like that happening with NX
09:56 PM enleth: I assume they'll fix it sooner or later, but now it's a serious UX problem, what with an error message that implies you did something wrong, but doesn't actually tell you what and where
09:58 PM Tom_L: the sort of thing that prevents me from taking a serious look at it
09:59 PM enleth: honestly, I've seen stuff like that in much more "serious" software too
09:59 PM enleth: but not in Inventor, actually
09:59 PM enleth: so I wonder what went wrong
10:00 PM enleth: "stuff like that" being boneheaded, unexplicable problems with shitty useless error messages that don't tell the user what to do to fix anything
10:02 PM enleth: actually if only the error message were detailed and highlighted the conflicting dependencies in the design, I'd be fine with it and call it a case of somewhat arbitrary dependency handling