#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 30 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:02 AM rue_shop3: suggested feed rates/rpm for pcb milling?
12:05 AM rue_shop3: 1mm bit
12:54 AM ve7it: rue_shop3, for pcb, I use about 1 ipm for each 1000 rpm of spindle..... 4 ipm with 4000rpm slow spindle up to maybe 20ipm with a 25000rpm spindle
01:26 AM rue_shop3: ok
01:26 AM rue_shop3: 25mm/min
01:27 AM rue_shop3: I think I have my 13.5krpm machine doing the wrong job
01:50 AM MarcelineVQ: could possibly use a drag knife to cut a stencil for a pcb and not worry as much about your rates
01:51 AM MarcelineVQ: probably gets unweildy pretty fast, depends on the board design I guess
01:54 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:55 AM IchGucksLive: rue_shop3: still online
01:57 AM IchGucksLive: hi selroc
01:59 AM selroc: hi
02:00 AM IchGucksLive: buona mattina vado in giardino
02:00 AM IchGucksLive: il sole splende
02:00 AM selroc: buon giorno IchGucksLive
02:00 AM IchGucksLive: im in germany
02:02 AM selroc: linuxcnc rocks !
02:02 AM IchGucksLive: as you say
02:03 AM IchGucksLive: and ofcause as my video channel does tell https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
02:04 AM IchGucksLive: im off to garden work till later
02:17 AM Deejay: moin
05:31 AM jthornton: morning
05:38 AM jthornton: all right making progress the light came on by itself this morning... next up the door
05:51 AM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
05:53 AM jthornton: hi ich
06:17 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
07:30 AM gloops: ok, spindle speed, ive got the speed working in the wrong direction, like + = slower, - = faster, any suggestions what to look at?
07:31 AM gloops: (wiring is ok)
07:31 AM archivist: negate your scale is one way
07:32 AM archivist: or invert the pin
07:33 AM gloops: invert the pin - you mean switch the wires?
07:34 AM gloops: i thought of negating the scale ill have a look
07:37 AM archivist: when you set the connections in stepconf or editing the files you can use a pin or its inverse, no wire swapping
07:39 AM gloops: ok, negating scale did nothing
07:49 AM gloops: net spindle-cmd-rpm => pwmgen.0.value
07:49 AM gloops: net spindle-on <= motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
07:49 AM gloops: net spindle-pwm <= pwmgen.0.pwm
07:49 AM gloops: setp pwmgen.0.pwm-freq 400.0
07:49 AM gloops: setp pwmgen.0.scale 24000
07:50 AM gloops: setp pwmgen.0.offset 0.0
07:50 AM gloops: setp pwmgen.0.dither-pwm true
07:53 AM archivist: where is your line to the parallel port pin
07:54 AM gloops: net spindle-pwm => parport.0.pin-01-out
07:55 AM gloops: net spindle-cmd-rpm <= motion.spindle-speed-out
07:55 AM gloops: net spindle-cmd-rpm-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
07:55 AM gloops: net spindle-cmd-rps <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps
07:55 AM gloops: net spindle-cmd-rps-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs
07:55 AM gloops: net spindle-at-speed => motion.spindle-at-speed
07:56 AM archivist: parport.0.pin-01-out-invert
07:57 AM gloops: the spindle speed display is only showing 4000rpm as well, would have thought that would give the 24000 scale - it does show incremements over that though when it passes 4000
07:57 AM gloops: ok ill try that
07:58 AM archivist: you may well have an incorrect scale etc
08:00 AM gloops: invert throws an error anyway
08:01 AM archivist: iirc the name varied with version
08:01 AM IchGucksLive: hi
08:01 AM gloops: i wouldnt mind for now, but generated gcode with spindle speed is working the arong way, cant seem to override it
08:01 AM gloops: hello
08:02 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: you dident folow the video i made for you
08:02 AM IchGucksLive: it says invert the pin
08:02 AM archivist: it has to be a parameter parport.<p>.pin-<n>-out-invert (bit) Inverts an output pin. see docs
08:04 AM gloops: ok i will do that
08:04 AM IchGucksLive: setp parport.0.pin-01-out-invert 1
08:05 AM gloops: ill run stepconfig and invert it there, then see what line it throws in hal - will make sense then
08:05 AM gloops: oh, ill try that first lol
08:05 AM IchGucksLive: bevor the net spindle-pwm => parport.0.pin-01-out
08:06 AM jthornton: gloops: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html#_setp
08:07 AM gloops: thanks, just got a bacon sandwich so might be a few minutes testing
08:11 AM gloops: thats it cracked it thank you
08:12 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: what is wrong with gcode
08:12 AM IchGucksLive: conan: bit du in deutschland
08:14 AM gloops: nothing wrong with the code Ichs - but with my speed inverted - if the code sets 20k its actually going to 4k
08:14 AM gloops: sorted anyway not
08:14 AM gloops: now
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: you can also invert the numbers in stepconf where 24000 is 0 and 0rpm is 1
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: BUT not the brst way
08:16 AM Deejay: re
08:16 AM IchGucksLive: Deejay: rain
08:17 AM Deejay: here too
08:17 AM IchGucksLive: weekend here no need for grandpa to go on duty ;-)
08:17 AM Deejay: neighbour stopped corn harvest. streets are full of dirt
08:17 AM IchGucksLive: said the 21year old and enterd the 260HP tractor
08:17 AM gloops: we've had some nice days here, last few days, like summer
08:18 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: we also
08:18 AM gloops: when the sun was out
08:18 AM Deejay: yep. but not today ;)
08:18 AM gloops: not bad today, but not as warm as it was
08:18 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off to cofeee and zimtschnecke
08:20 AM gloops: these linux docs all need re-writing, very difficult for the layman to grasp
08:20 AM gloops: it needs a 'linuxcnc for dummies' version
08:21 AM Deejay: hehe
08:40 AM jthornton: you should have seen the docs before I re-wrote them :)
08:42 AM CaptHindsight: gloops: https://pasteboard.co/GMLssg8.png
08:57 AM gloops: hey capt i looked for that on amazon and couldnt see it anywhere
08:57 AM MarcelineVQ: :>
08:58 AM gloops: https://www.amazon.co.uk/LinuxCNC-Getting-Started-Guide-Team/dp/9888406302/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506778004&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=linuxcnc+for+dummies
09:01 AM CaptHindsight: gloops: what exactly do you feel that you need help with?
09:01 AM CaptHindsight: what would you want the book to show you?
09:01 AM CaptHindsight: often docs don't start from the ground up, for the absolute beginner
09:02 AM CaptHindsight: they assume too much about the reader might know
09:02 AM gloops: well atm not a lot, the thing is with this, people like me buy some cnc kit, its xmas morning to a kid, we want to stick it all together and play with it straight away
09:03 AM gloops: yes that is true, i could use a book that starts as if they are explaining to someone with little prior knowledge at all
09:03 AM CaptHindsight: gloops: would you buy a preconfigured LCNC system like a 3040 router or similar?
09:03 AM gloops: its impossible to estimate what the target reader is though, how much he knows, whats the starting point
09:03 AM gloops: - this is a computer
09:04 AM CaptHindsight: or how about just the stepper drives and controller already configured?
09:04 AM gloops: Capt no i wouldnt
09:04 AM gloops: if it goes wrong im lost, i want to know how it works
09:05 AM CaptHindsight: imho opinion docs should assume that it's your grandma and start at that level
09:05 AM archivist: that level of doc is useless to a seasoned user
09:05 AM gloops: maybe yes, it gets around anyway in the community, youtube vids and so on, can search forums
09:06 AM gloops: yes thats the problem archivist
09:06 AM CaptHindsight: not someone that's had at least a few weeks running things from a terminal
09:07 AM CaptHindsight: archivist: but nobody wants to write the docs for the noobs
09:08 AM gloops: but could be missing a lot of users, someone from windows downloads linuxcnc, thinks running a cnc is going to be like using a home printer
09:08 AM gloops: how long they gonna stick with it?
09:09 AM CaptHindsight: that is the missing piece
09:09 AM archivist: thinking a cnc is like a printer is a mistake
09:09 AM SpeedEvil: Or a 3d printer is like a printer
09:10 AM SpeedEvil: (unless it's a really expensive canned reliable 3d printer)
09:10 AM CaptHindsight: practical operation is not
09:10 AM CaptHindsight: but the basic setup for the software should be similar
09:10 AM gloops: look at them in the cnc facebook groups, they buy stls and gcode, open it, press run
09:10 AM archivist: cannot be expect for the simple lathe or 3 axis mills
09:11 AM archivist: except
09:11 AM gloops: only like printing photos really
09:11 AM CaptHindsight: archivist: yes but that is STILL missing
09:11 AM CaptHindsight: and thats what most people have, simple 3-axis mills
09:11 AM CaptHindsight: or routers
09:12 AM archivist: actually some mill/bobs setups are in stepconf
09:12 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, it's a good start
09:12 AM archivist: but the hardware is not common enough for standard setups
09:13 AM CaptHindsight: but in my opinion it should be easier to use
09:13 AM CaptHindsight: but it takes work to write it
09:15 AM CaptHindsight: the trains sets is a good analogy but....
09:15 AM CaptHindsight: after it just runs then the user should be made aware that they are just the beginning
09:16 AM CaptHindsight: they nned to learn a bit more about machining and setup to make anything past what you might find in the first week of HS machine shop
09:17 AM gloops: yeah that is true
09:18 AM gloops: im not blaming linuxcnc for making it difficult - ive had all kinds of problems with my first build, linuxcnc IS pretty easy i guess once the grasp the basics of cnc itself, its a lot to learn in a short time
09:22 AM CaptHindsight: what missing is the 0 to where gloops is part of the docs
09:24 AM archivist: but in that set are those with no aptitude for the tasks ahead of them
09:25 AM archivist: reminds me of polyputthekettleon or whatever he was called
09:27 AM gloops: when you read the manuals of apps like say photoshop, they are worded in way that walks the reader through it in baby steps, i mean these pro software companies probably have an author or teacher sit down with the crew and write the manual that way, in some of the linuxcnc docs, a section is basically cold hard facts - this is this and that is that, you get the information - but it isnt placed in any context, difficult to join the dots
09:28 AM gloops: archivist i think it has to be concluded in the nicest possible way that a fairly large section of the population will not be doing cnc
09:30 AM archivist: I had a funny situation at the pumping station explaining the steam cycle to a primary school teacher
09:31 AM gloops: teachers can be the most difficult people in the world lol
09:32 AM archivist: she was, why cant you explain for a 5 year old? she said.... she kept saying hot air and I kept reminding her it was steam
09:35 AM gloops: well, a teacher shouldnt be changing the key terms - like steam, i suppose there is a case for simplifying it or putting it into words the kids will understand
09:35 AM sync: gloops: that is because their customers are artists
09:35 AM sync: which generally are the worst people to operate anything
09:36 AM sync: let alone software
09:37 AM gloops: could be sync, photoshop was just an example though really
09:37 AM sync: well, yes
09:38 AM sync: but it is that way with most software that a regular customer could face
09:38 AM gloops: a sotware company will place quite a lot of emphasis on tutorials, nobody is going to use them if they cant work out how to use the app
09:38 AM sync: well, it depends
09:38 AM gloops: have you seen the autocad manual?
09:38 AM sync: some just sell you the training classes for their software
09:39 AM gloops: ive got one here, its 4 times thicker than Blender for dummies lol
09:41 AM gloops: anyway bbl
10:24 AM Loetmichel: HRRMPF. now that i juuust wanted to go outside to mount the new foglights to the convertible it starts raining. i think someone up there doesent like me very much.
10:28 AM Tom_L: are you gonna melt?
10:30 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: no, but the soft top isnt exactly watertight. so its under a tarp... and honestly: its no fun to repair something in the pouring raim with thunderbolt and lightning around
10:30 AM Tom_L: it makes it exciting :)
10:30 AM DaViruz: rain is a lot of things, exciting is not one of them
12:03 PM jelly-home is now known as jelly
12:20 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:23 PM Deejay: wb
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: Deejay: getting cold tonight bleow 5deg in vforcast
12:31 PM Deejay: 7°C here
12:32 PM SpeedEvil: ~13
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: todays mass wood work ;-) http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/posthorn.jpg
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: and first bit break today
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: whow very intensiv small long thunderfront https://www.lightningmaps.org/#m=sat;r=0;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=;n=0;y=49.8515;x=9.9341;z=6;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;
12:39 PM gloops: hi, it has been raining a while here, not heavy
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: so you got lots of time for bitbreaks
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: this is the time to go for hard tests on your chees
12:40 PM gloops: oh you broke a bit? not managed that yet
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: with the Estop in half trigger
12:42 PM gloops: well everything seems to be working ok, tried some better ball nose cutters pretty crisp in pine
12:42 PM gloops: shallow passes though, like 2mm
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: like i like to do DRY Hard Oak and full depth at some speed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdvROAlCMMQ
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: goal is to keep the tool as cold as you can
12:43 PM gloops: ill get there lol
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: see the last 5 sec of the video i touch the tool
12:44 PM gloops: hmm, ill try that, thats a good thing to go by
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: :P
12:46 PM gloops: what do you think of v carving new pine Ichs?
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: in case of what
12:46 PM gloops: like the stuff from the DIY store
12:47 PM gloops: any problems with grain chipping out ?
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/hs_2.jpg
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: this things
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/posthorn.jpg
12:47 PM gloops: yeah stuff like that
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: i do 22k rpm and max 5mm depth at 700mm/min
12:48 PM gloops: are you using a v bit with a flat bottom?
12:48 PM gloops: ahh so pretty slow feed
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: they all got some flat around 0,5mm
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: you will see if you can go more
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: you alkready got 150% in the bar
12:49 PM gloops: ill try it slower, ball nose is fine, nice and clean, v bit is struggling to get a clean cut
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: on pine you may bee the wrong wood
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: beech
12:50 PM gloops: yeah not the right wood, but i thought if i get it right with pine hardwood will be no problem
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: i like to recycle grave crosses
12:50 PM gloops: plenty of pine to practice on
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: as weekener the material as harder to cut
12:51 PM Deejay: weekend \o/
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: :O
12:51 PM gloops: wooden crosses arent common here
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: holiday 10 days
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: im 60yards away from the recorce
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: feet -> 20m
12:52 PM gloops: bbiab got to drop someone off
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: grabkreuzshop.de how can someone run a shop like that and have a crab side layout
01:03 PM rue_shop3: MarcelineVQ, IchGucksLive I'm actually just cutting out the FR-4 to a special shape
01:03 PM rue_shop3: sorry fell asleep early yesterday
01:03 PM rue_shop3: looks like around midnight or so
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: rue_shop3: so nothing like that http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/pcb_milling.jpg
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: or only the shape of the middle part
01:07 PM rue_shop3: only the outter shape like the middle
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: :-)
01:18 PM rue_shop3: 8-| my thrust bearings been wearing in, like .07" play
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: good sets of hwin and ballscrews are bleow 500 USD
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: im off for today corn harvest continues tomorrow as rain stopt it today
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: need to get some sleep
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: gn8
01:23 PM rue_shop3: my machine is below $20
01:23 PM rue_shop3: hara for having a $5000 welder!
01:24 PM rue_shop3: tho aparently the motors I used sell for $25usd ea
02:28 PM jdh: those are pretty nice looking boards
02:34 PM gloops: sign boards?
02:35 PM gloops: im just looking at ways of drawing wooden gears for profile cutting
02:36 PM gloops: a small problem presents itself, a round cutter cant cut the internal angles square
02:37 PM gloops: so the teeth have to be rounded, none of the gear apps i have allows editing for that
02:37 PM jdh: the pcb's ich posted above
02:37 PM gloops: oh those, yeah, i dont know anything at all about those
02:37 PM sync: gloops: you will have to file them
02:38 PM gloops: sync all 100 gears?
02:38 PM sync: of course
02:38 PM gloops: there will be a way round it, i cant be bothered to draw them from scratch
02:39 PM sync: with involute gears it is not possible to round them there without sacrificing tooth strength or other issues
02:39 PM sync: you can use profile offset to acheive something similar but that is not really common
02:39 PM sync: and your gear generation tool has to support it
02:40 PM gloops: these are only for kids to learn in a classroom, they arent going to drive anything, they need to be able to fit them together and turn them though
02:41 PM sync: then just add mousebites
02:41 PM gloops: i can do it by adding a radius to each internal both sides, same for external, with circular array
02:42 PM gloops: sync could do, but there wont be much left if anything
02:43 PM gloops: was hoping one app would allow an edge to be bevelled but the ones i got dont seem to allow it on generated gears
03:58 PM Deejay: gn8
05:37 PM JT-Shop: yo
05:46 PM hazzy: hey JT
06:09 PM JT-Shop: hey how's it going?
06:09 PM JT-Shop: we just got back from a bike rid
06:09 PM JT-Shop: e
06:23 PM jdh: JT-Shop: do you strava?
06:25 PM JT-Shop: no, and we were on the Spyder not the Giant :)
06:28 PM JT-Shop: was cool Thursday and rode to town and back on the Giant... been so long for a second or three I forgot how to down shift it lol
06:43 PM Tom_L: nice day for a ride
06:51 PM JT-Shop: yup
06:51 PM Tom_L: got the Spyder engine all back in order then..
06:58 PM JT-Shop: well when I cranked it up after sitting since march a big cloud of white smoke came out lol
07:03 PM Tom_L: didn't seem like it had been that long since the incident...
07:04 PM JT-Shop: a year ago last march
07:12 PM gregcnc: gah i updated to firefox quantum and lost fireftp
07:50 PM jthornton: I use filezilla
08:11 PM gregcnc: i ended up with winscp
08:13 PM gregcnc: imagine setting up this toolchanger in linuxcnc https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrzTy3FWcK/
08:37 PM sync: looks fairly simple
08:37 PM sync: probably all driven by limitswitches
08:46 PM TurBoss: just upgraded to nightly quantum
08:47 PM TurBoss: this is a rocket
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: I was waiting for a mouse to eat some cheese that would cause a lever to trip a basket that would ......
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: lotsa stuff in that toochanger
08:54 PM jdh: lotsa time in that changer
09:47 PM Tom_L: plenty of time to sharpen the tools between changes for sure
09:57 PM evilroot: Hrm, that one axis looks a lot like the setup on my bots
11:05 PM likevinyl is now known as Guest59109