#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 27 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:29 AM jesseg_ is now known as jesseg
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany fog all around
12:56 AM MrHindsight: guten morgen
12:57 AM MrHindsight: leaving 30+ C temps and back to ~20C for the next week
01:01 AM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: im off 2 corn harvest hope i can see the harvester ;-)
02:05 AM andypugh: Charles Steinkuhler might like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wxc3mKqKTk
02:07 AM andypugh: (Because he was onew of the Video Toaster guys)
02:24 AM gloops: i release that for the first time in a couple of months i have no linuxcnc questions
02:25 AM gloops: strange thing, the bloody thing is working
02:25 AM andypugh: Maybe now is when you start answering them :-)
02:25 AM gloops: lol, im willing to help, not sure im the best person here to do it though
02:26 AM andypugh: (not sarcastic, the best person to answer a question is someone who _just_ understands it and knows why it isn’t obvious.
02:26 AM gloops: next challenge will be 2 motors 1 axis but thats some time off, already get the basic gist of it
02:27 AM andypugh: Works a lot better in the 2.8 / master / development version
02:27 AM gloops: you probably have a point there andypugh, one of the problems i had was trying to explain, as a total laymman with no electronics knowledge, what i wanted to do
02:28 AM gloops: i can see straight what some newb is asking when he first looks at his BOB or vfd with no instructions
02:29 AM andypugh: Indeed. I used to be able to do that, now I find it hard to get back into that place.
02:31 AM gloops: im glad i went with linuxcnc now, it forces some learning, plus cant stand the 'lost in space' display of the other app
02:33 AM gloops: anyway bbl
02:33 AM andypugh: I am happy with my choice too, but as long as whatever people want to make, they can make, then I don;t care which one they choose.
03:14 AM Deejay: moin
04:25 AM fdarling: is it possible to "drip-feed" G-code to LinuxCNC like you would an industrial machine?
04:26 AM fdarling: I am asking because there are certain "interactive" applications, for example 3D printing or circuit board milling. for PCB milling one needs to probe and determine a height map then modify the G code appropriately to match the uneven surface
04:27 AM archivist: actually linuxcnc can use the height map no need to redo the gcode
05:10 AM jthornton: morning
05:11 AM XXCoder: hey
05:12 AM archivist: Loetmichel, just found what you wanted without a crappy lead acid https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-sc-booster-9000-capacitor-start-booster.html
05:13 AM XXCoder: jthornton: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGhqnZmWAAA0JBX.jpg
05:14 AM jthornton: lol
05:15 AM archivist: I think I am going to get the same sign from Loetmichel in a bit
05:15 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pnXaENvCKc
05:16 AM XXCoder: make your own
05:16 AM XXCoder: he made better version later I think
05:42 AM XXCoder: lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SniIu7PWyU8
06:22 AM Loetmichel: archivist: ahem... do i look like i could pay that much for a gimmick?
06:22 AM * archivist giggles
06:22 AM archivist: 9000 amps!
06:23 AM XXCoder: 5 finger discount!
06:23 AM Loetmichel: and no, i am not rude enough to give you the finger over THAT ;)
06:23 AM sync: it probably works tho
06:24 AM archivist: with the right super caps it could be ok
06:24 AM Loetmichel: sync: it very well will. Those supercaps can crank out some SERIOUS amps
06:25 AM XXCoder: gauss gun does need some serious amps also
06:26 AM sync: but ultracaps are not ideal for them
06:28 AM * jthornton figured out the DS3231 works much better when the i2c is plugged in correctly
06:29 AM Tom_L: does time go backwards the other way?
06:33 AM jthornton: ya just get garbage back on the i2c lol
06:34 AM XXCoder: Tom_L: that'd stop time basically lol since if it went backwards when he fixed it. it would get unfixed, loop
06:44 AM The_Ball: cradek, "S changes are nonrealtime so motion stops", I wasn't aware of that. Is there a better way to adjust a hal signal in realtime, M code?
06:47 AM jthornton: this dang pc is getting unusable with the damn mouse sticky crap
06:47 AM XXCoder: jthornton: you need to look into assistant stuff
06:47 AM XXCoder: that or your mouse button spring is getting worn
06:48 AM jthornton: I've never turned on any assistant stuff so must be a bad mouse
06:50 AM The_Ball: perhaps M67 or M68
07:42 AM nallar is now known as Ross
07:48 AM nallar is now known as Ross
07:49 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: bouse button sticking or (optical) mouse mopving erratically=?
07:50 AM Loetmichel: the latter can be some hairs or other debris stuck to the lens
07:50 AM Loetmichel: -b+m
07:51 AM jthornton: I think the button is bad
07:51 AM Loetmichel: they do that sometimes.
07:51 AM Loetmichel: does it still "click"?
07:59 AM skunkworks: The acorn from centroid looks pretty cool for what it is.. One of the very few low cost solutions that does threading/tapping
07:59 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWLhB4Kiuq8
08:00 AM skunkworks: wonder what they are using on the beagle bone.
08:00 AM jthornton: yea it still clicks
08:00 AM skunkworks: Only thing I question is does threading have leadin/out tapers.
08:07 AM gregcnc: I looked at the manuals a while back. it looked decent
08:08 AM gregcnc: I think they will some impact on the hobby market.
08:09 AM gregcnc: Is mock3/4 still stuck with their issues? That is are they getting updated?
08:12 AM skunkworks: gregcnc, I think mach4 is still having growing pains.
08:12 AM gregcnc: it seems like losing tormach would be a big deal
08:14 AM gregcnc: I thought the safety stuff was a bit overblown in the retrofit thread. I mean most shops kill the door switch first thing.
08:16 AM sync: well you still want your estop not to move through the buffered motion queue
08:16 AM sync: but to have it act instantly
08:18 AM archivist: that depends on hardware, software geared action will be destroyed if that is done
08:19 AM archivist: there is no right answer to fit all possibilities on estop
08:20 AM fdarling: archivist: I am seeing online someone who wrote an import filter, but not a native height map solution. Would you elaborate?
08:20 AM gregcnc: but at the point of estop are we really worried about the part?
08:21 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: one reason why i have a box of 120 cheap cherry mouses here at the company (we did need the usb cables from them) and didnt threw them away. now its simply "oen the old/worn one and the new one, swap cables, close, throw old away, use new one"
08:21 AM Loetmichel: until they are all used up
08:23 AM skunkworks: gregcnc, that thread went of the rails a few times :)
08:23 AM gregcnc: yeah I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did
08:24 AM skunkworks: after everything it ended with 'if you retrofit your own equipment with anything other than fanuc/whatever industrial control - you are going to kill someone.'
08:25 AM Loetmichel: sounds slightly biased
08:26 AM skunkworks: slightly ;)
08:27 AM skunkworks: It is this thread
08:27 AM gregcnc: Some of these guys also deal with BS workers comp claims so a machine related injury from a DIY retrofit would be a nightmare
08:27 AM skunkworks: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/anyone-retrofit-cnc-lathe-340165/
08:28 AM skunkworks: I am sure. like anything - it would have to be implimented correctly. This is not linuxcnc's fault.
08:29 AM gregcnc: I think the idea is that a retrofit from large company would leave someone to sue.
08:29 AM archivist: fdarling, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
08:33 AM archivist: fdarling, iirc there was later stuff but some searching needed
08:35 AM Loetmichel: the last time i retrofitted a machine ( big surface grinder ) with siemens drives and control i sheared off two M8 8.8 screws and shot a 2kg steel end stop across the workshop and thru the brick wall... 3kw ac servos and 500kg rootating table are not to be trifeld with when adjusting soft limits ;)
08:37 AM Loetmichel: and it was already decellerating after moving about 1000mm in less than 2 secs... jsut miscaculated how many steps 1000mm are... by about 50mm ;)
08:38 AM archivist: dont need cnc to throw metal 40-50ft :)
09:48 AM Todd_Z: There is some thing to be said for having hard limits to back up the soft limits. Especially on machines such as that.
09:50 AM Loetmichel: archivist: trhu a brick wall?
09:50 AM * JT-Shop is glad he had his glasses on... this was one squirty grapefruit
09:51 AM Loetmichel: Todd_Z: i was tuning in the soft limits. no hard limits attached yet. but end blocks on the rails ;)
09:51 AM Loetmichel: no limit switches i mean
09:52 AM Jymmm: Can anyone think of a way to apply silicone to the back of a stencil (evenly) to adhere it to a solid backer?
09:54 AM skunkworks: apply it to a rolling pin with a separate board - then apply it to the stencil?
09:54 AM skunkworks: it is going to be messy ;_
09:54 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Not sure if that would allow it to be a uniform layer
09:56 AM skunkworks: Jymmm, don't know - just thinking how a printing press applies ink
09:56 AM skunkworks: or - through a screen? (like screen printing)
09:57 AM skunkworks: that would be pretty consistent with a squeegee
09:58 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Yesh, but an offset press (like you are thinking) has multiple rollers to even the distribution of ink. I thought about silscreen too, but I have no clue on how the screen itself is produced (I thought it was a photo-etch process)
09:58 AM Jymmm: silkscreen* ~= screen printing
09:59 AM skunkworks: it is - you apply an emulsion to the screen - expose it with a positive - then rinse the unexposed stuff away.
09:59 AM Jymmm: I thought about glue applicators, but I think silicne is too think for most of them.
09:59 AM skunkworks: (My day job is with a screen printing company)
09:59 AM HighInBC: geez, the CNC came from China with the limit switch wire running under the gantry, so if the gantry moves it will run it over. Brilliant design work
10:00 AM HighInBC: and all the switches are loose, held in with one screw only lol
10:00 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Ah, ok =)
10:03 AM skunkworks: I don't know how silicone would effect the emulsion or screens we use..
10:03 AM skunkworks: (we don't print silicone ;))
10:03 AM skunkworks: we do print screenable adhesive - which is similar consistency..
10:04 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: I'd suspect that I won't be able to clean off all of the silicone and the screen would get clogged.
10:04 AM archivist: Loetmichel, was cutting some sheet metal with a dewalt overarm saw, went bang, part of bench went one way, metal another :)
10:04 AM skunkworks: HighInBC, I think you where expecting a lot.. ;)
10:04 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Do you know the adhesive you use?
10:04 AM HighInBC: I was expecting the 3040 frame to be reasonably solid, and the electronics to be... well what I got
10:04 AM skunkworks: Jymmm, that would be my thought... you would need a solvent that cuts silicone.
10:04 AM HighInBC: and it is a solid frame
10:04 AM skunkworks: I can ask..
10:06 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: There really isn't a solvent for silicone. You can use a (literally) dry-cleaning soluvent, but it's not perfect, and is expensive (probably would be cheap to make more screens).
10:07 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: And this being Kommifornia, I'd have to smuggle it across the (state) border
10:07 AM skunkworks: heh
10:08 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: I'm serious. already had to smuggle MEK sadly.
10:08 AM sync: well, tri is nasty but has some unique applications
10:09 AM Jymmm: sync: I have 2 pints of it.
10:09 AM sync: I have a drum of tri and tetra, my school needed to get rid of it
10:09 AM sync: it is awesome for some stuff
10:10 AM Jymmm: sync: I had found it at the flea market. One can has never been opened.
10:10 AM Jymmm: sync: Assuming you mean this nasty shit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1-Trichloroethane
10:11 AM skunkworks: http://www.screenstretch.co.uk/silk-screen-printing-chemicals/screen-printable-adhesives/
10:11 AM skunkworks: the ink department says D177 we use alot
10:11 AM sync: no I mean CAS 79-01-6
10:13 AM Jymmm: sync: Eh, I think both are "close enough" =)
10:14 AM sync: degreasing stuff with it is incredibly nice
10:14 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Ah, they are PSA's (Pressure sensative adhesives), doubtful they would work for what I have in mind.
10:14 AM skunkworks: darn
10:14 AM Jymmm: sync: especially when heated and the vapors do all the work
10:14 AM sync: yes
10:15 AM Jymmm: sync: Yep, that's what I got, fun stuff =)
10:16 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Thank you though, I appreciate it. I had even contacted 3M and they sent a "recommended" spray adhesive, but didn't work.
10:28 AM skunkworks: no problem
10:28 AM Todd_Z: How thick a layer do you want to make?
10:33 AM Todd_Z: Take several wires the thickness you want it spread. Lay them parrallel across the piece, then spread with a straight edge.
10:38 AM skunkworks: when I hear stensil.. I think lots of holes that doesn't bode well to spreading
11:00 AM Jymmm: the wire idea is a good one.
11:01 AM Jymmm: Yes, lots of holes that I would prefer NOT having be filled it
11:02 AM Jymmm: I may have to use transfer tape to include the dropout pieces, apply silicone, then remove the dropouts.
11:05 AM Jymmm: Unless someone knows (for sure, as they have already used it and works well) of a spray adhesive that does a solid bond to polyester fabric.
11:41 AM simonious is now known as Simonious
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: hi slipalong how is it going
12:50 PM ronnywa: Hi, hat jemand die Dateien aus diesen Video für mich? LINUXCNC Probing DEUTSCH Automatisch Anfahren Znullen
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: ronnywa: das bin ich
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: drück mal bitte doppelt auf meinen nichname
12:55 PM ronnywa: da passiert nix
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: sollte dich ein zweites tab öffnen
12:57 PM ronnywa: ne leider nicht
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: du meinst das hier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLHdP8T4-Lc
12:57 PM ronnywa: ja genau
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: ich paste sie
12:58 PM ronnywa: danke Dir
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: für eiune Fräse oder ein plasma
12:58 PM ronnywa: Fräse
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: https://pastebin.com/0YPWXFxL
01:01 PM ronnywa: Danke schön.
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: ronnywa: zwingend erforderlich ist der iengang
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: net toolprobe motion.probe-input <= parport.0.pin-12-in-not
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: der pin natürlich deiner
01:02 PM ronnywa: ok muss ich auf die mesa legen
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: 7i76
01:02 PM ronnywa: 7i77
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: dan weist du ja wies geht ;-)
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: ich sitze in zweibrücken
01:03 PM ronnywa: jep, hoffe ich bin neu bei linuxcnc. hatte bis jetzt mach3
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: dann kann es nur besser weerden
01:03 PM ronnywa: ich bin in der nähe von Chemnitz
01:04 PM ronnywa: das hoffe ich auch
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: mach dir eine sidepanel und überprüfe das mit der LED
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: UND bitte erst mit der HAL_anzeige arbeiten bevor du in den tishc rammst
01:05 PM ronnywa: ok werde ich versuchen, wenn ich hilfe brauche kann ich Dich nochmal anschreiben?
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: immer ab 19uhr hier
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: sonst frag Deejay
01:06 PM ronnywa: Ok Danke.
01:06 PM Deejay: wattn
01:06 PM Deejay: nich immer mich belästigen ;)
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: dein typ wird verlangt
01:07 PM Deejay: hab doch gar keine ahnung. bin froh, dass mein linuxcnc läuft
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: ok so lets be back in english
01:07 PM ronnywa: ich och nicht :-(
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: ronnywa: yoiu gone make it from Noob to pro
01:08 PM Deejay: he has left the building
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: as so many
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: today the kindergarden came over to the corn harvest and we had all trucks filled with kids
01:09 PM Deejay: lol
01:09 PM Deejay: happening of the year :)
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: coool ride
01:09 PM Deejay: how dirty were they afterwards? ;)
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: no dirt
01:10 PM Deejay: thought you got rain last days
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: yesterday we had to break up on 26liters in 10min
01:10 PM Deejay: here, some streets are dirty like hell. mud everywhere
01:36 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
02:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:57 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest85456
04:38 PM Deejay: gn8
04:52 PM phipli: evening
05:06 PM phipli: so when a 24v 5A switch mode power supply says "suitable for laptops"...
05:07 PM phipli: it does mean "and 80w DC pumps" doesn't it...
05:07 PM phipli: that's what I read it as anyway
05:09 PM Wolf__: 24v 5A psu is a 24v 5A psu no matter what its labeled for imo lol
05:10 PM phipli: I'm just hoping that it isn't too smart and doesn't try to analyse the load characteristics :)
05:10 PM Wolf__: long as its DC or AC marked for application
05:10 PM phipli: yeah - the only thing I haven't checked is the inrush current
05:11 PM phipli: don't have the spec for the starting current on the pump, or what the psu can handle
05:11 PM Wolf__: some of the laptop bricks are current limited which is nice for that oops moment you short something
05:11 PM phipli: so that must mean they're compatible
05:11 PM phipli: yeah, it says it has short protection
05:11 PM phipli: and thermal cutout
05:11 PM Wolf__: black brick style?
05:11 PM phipli: (which I might regret at 4am, somewhere out in the middle of nowhere when I'm trying to pump water under a train)
05:12 PM phipli: yeah
05:12 PM phipli: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/desktop-power-supply/7840593/
05:12 PM Wolf__: I would go over sized by a few amps
05:12 PM phipli: I'm limited to one option from that supplier
05:12 PM Wolf__: if possible
05:12 PM phipli: which gives me...
05:12 PM phipli: 1.4A spare
05:12 PM phipli: over the pump quoted max current
05:13 PM phipli: I shouldn't need to run the pump flat out anyway
05:13 PM Wolf__: or you could add small SLA batteries inline
05:13 PM phipli: I'd probably just run it off batteries if I was going to do that
05:14 PM Wolf__: or capacitors between the psu, switch and pump
05:14 PM phipli: I get to test it first anyway
05:15 PM phipli: I'll work it hard and see if I melt anything
05:15 PM Wolf__: probably the easy way to find out if it will work lol
05:15 PM phipli: yup
05:15 PM phipli: all about the test rigs
05:15 PM phipli: heh
05:16 PM phipli: a while back our electrical team were testing the durability of some relays
05:16 PM phipli: they had a test rig that just ran high current through a bank of relays and switched them every few seconds
05:16 PM Wolf__: or get two used 12v 50A server PSU for dirt cheap and run them in series lol
05:16 PM phipli: was running for most of a year
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: without honest specs you never really know what a product will do until you try it
05:18 PM phipli: Yeah - I've been trying to minimise the risk
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: they make a bigger deal out of RoHS compliance than accurate specs
05:18 PM phipli: got a 24v pump rather than 12 so that I could keep the current lower
05:20 PM phipli: anyone used NPN style sensors? The type that sink, or don't sink current as their output?
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: sure
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: what problem are you having?
05:21 PM phipli: I've not used one before - to convert it to logic, I put a pull up resistor to the logic voltage, and then just monitor it
05:21 PM phipli: goes up and down like usual?
05:21 PM phipli: when the output is sinking, I get ~0v
05:22 PM phipli: when it isn't it gets pulled up?
05:22 PM phipli: no surprises?
05:24 PM phipli: example on the second page : http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/023e/0900766b8023e8ed.pdf
05:25 PM phipli: just connect digital in pin to "white" (Black to gnd, red to supply)
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: they say that you are required to supply your own pullup resistor
05:26 PM phipli: yeah
05:27 PM phipli: that's fine
05:27 PM phipli: just checking that I've not missed anything
05:27 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: if the specs are accurate then there should no surprises
05:29 PM phipli: excellent
05:29 PM XXCoder: expecially no surpise releases of magic smoke
05:29 PM phipli: no surprises is good
05:30 PM phipli: we're testing the brakes on a train...
05:30 PM phipli: by forcing it to slide
05:30 PM phipli: so.... what happens when I take away friction...
05:30 PM phipli: (at night, on a closed railway)
05:30 PM phipli: (with permission)
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: I imagine that its rare that trains will use others tracks without permission
05:38 PM sadisticroot: Holy crap
05:38 PM sadisticroot: It turns out the gearboxes on this SCARA are actually huge Harmonic Drives
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: HUGE
05:39 PM XXCoder: we need to make rails state owned, because patchy corp ownership is what is preventing rail from having more people transport as they priorize to cargo.
05:39 PM phipli: USA?
05:39 PM XXCoder: yep
05:39 PM phipli: you have crazy freight
05:40 PM sadisticroot: Now if I could only figure out what model they are
05:40 PM phipli: part of what holds your "High Speed" stuff back is that anywhere where you have mixed traffic, you can't have a lightweight fast train
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: we are moving to the India model of rail transport
05:40 PM phipli: because a) it catches up with the freight
05:40 PM phipli: and b) the freight doesn't notice it during a crash
05:40 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: im not familiar with india model, whats it like?
05:40 PM phipli: how many people can you fit...
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/56d08e682e526575008b9e6b-1200/indias-current-population-is-12-billion.jpg
05:41 PM phipli: at least they look happy about it
05:42 PM phipli: improvement in customer happiness compared to my last trip out on a train
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: see you're supposed to dribe a car everywhere
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: drive even
05:42 PM phipli: at least most of them know not to go on the roof of an electric train
05:42 PM XXCoder: phipli: biggest issue isnt speed. its inconsient timing, as they have to work around cargo and approvals to cross certain sections of rail owned by various companies
05:42 PM phipli: other than that one stupid, soon to be ex-person
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: this requires more fuel so oil companies benefit
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: trains are for commies
05:43 PM phipli: XXCoder, our rails are owned by one organisation
05:43 PM XXCoder: yeah? what country?
05:43 PM phipli: but our trains are owned buy several people, and operated by a load of different people again
05:44 PM phipli: UK
05:44 PM phipli: it was nationalised until the 90s
05:44 PM phipli: then the government sold it to their mates for cheap
05:45 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:45 PM XXCoder: I wonder if monopoly on rail is as bad as patchy companies rails
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: the commie trains in China are modern and very fast
05:45 PM phipli: pros and cons
05:45 PM phipli: hum
05:45 PM sync: well, the transrapid was made by siemens
05:46 PM phipli: when it was owned by the state, the conservative government always tried to cut the budget to nothing
05:46 PM phipli: so there were bad patches
05:46 PM phipli: but it was cheaper than it is now
05:46 PM phipli: the "competition reduces costs" is a lie
05:46 PM phipli: more (even after inflation) taxpayer money goes into our railway now than it did back in the day
05:46 PM XXCoder: to a point. that point is when monopoly rises price and cuts costs
05:47 PM XXCoder: because they can
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: top speed of 350 km/h (217 mph)
05:47 PM phipli: a state monopoly isn't quite the same as a business monopoly
05:47 PM phipli: the other thing is that companies weren't so interested in things like R&D and buying new trains
05:47 PM XXCoder: thought you said rails was sold to one company?
05:48 PM phipli: it was...
05:48 PM phipli: it cut corners...
05:48 PM phipli: and killed a load of people
05:48 PM phipli: so it is now sort of state owned again
05:48 PM phipli: but not quite
05:48 PM phipli: but it is really
05:48 PM XXCoder: ahh yeah.
05:49 PM XXCoder: virtual monopoly is as bad. like cable companies here :(
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: Indian train parking lot http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/07/11/1226092/491993-aptopix-india-train-accident.jpg
05:49 PM phipli: yeah - I don't get your cable companies
05:49 PM XXCoder: they carefully arrange so they are sole service provider in regions
05:49 PM phipli: you seem to have all the bad bits of a monopoly and the bad bits of multiple companies
05:49 PM XXCoder: few companiess, no competition
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: thats the plan
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: only profit matters
05:51 PM phipli: "maximise shareholder profit"
05:51 PM phipli: someone actually had the cheek to tell me that that was our objective on a project once
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: if you don't have any extractible cash then you are just human sludge
05:53 PM phipli: would you use trains if you had better ones?
05:53 PM phipli: is there a need?
05:53 PM phipli: I guess the US is the land of the car
05:54 PM phipli: car ownership has started to drop amongst the young over here
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: there are few options here
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: by plan
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: same here
05:54 PM phipli: the cost for young people has increased by a large amount over the years
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: but 20-somethings don't travel far
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: bikes are far more popular
05:55 PM phipli: I took my car off the road
05:55 PM phipli: hire one if I need one
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: home ownership is also was down
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: was/way
05:55 PM phipli: same here
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: you can't travel if you don't have disposable incomes
05:56 PM phipli: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41323442
05:56 PM phipli: depressing reading
05:57 PM phipli: spend 3x as much as their / our grandparents, and get smaller spaces for it!
05:57 PM phipli: Yay!
05:57 PM phipli: I can't complain. Was lucky - wanted to do engineering and it turns out that people are willing to pay me for it
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: I don't understand why it's so hard for people to see that the middle class is being destroyed
05:58 PM phipli: Inflation in part
05:59 PM JT-Shop: hey phipli
05:59 PM phipli: people compare different eras without properly understanding inflation
05:59 PM phipli: hey JT
05:59 PM phipli: how goes
05:59 PM phipli: I'm busy depressing everyone
05:59 PM phipli: so if you've got any jolly photos of chickens
05:59 PM phipli: they'd go down a storm :)
06:00 PM JT-Shop: down to the door on the run and plug a few holes here and there
06:00 PM JT-Shop: just processing them now
06:00 PM phipli: put together a pump speed controller and wrote a program to read a flow meter today
06:01 PM phipli: resisting the temptation to try to make it closed loop
06:01 PM JT-Shop: got my ardweenie to play nice this morning finally... I had the DS3231 plugged into A4 and A3 lol
06:02 PM JT-Shop: put a sunlight on the coop today, much brighter inside now
06:02 PM phipli: our shy bird is getting more confident
06:03 PM phipli: saw her running around the yard with an apple the other day
06:03 PM JT-Shop: cool
06:03 PM phipli: the other birds chasing her for it
06:03 PM JT-Shop: a whole apple?
06:03 PM phipli: she was not letting them have it
06:03 PM phipli: only a small one
06:03 PM phipli: but yes
06:03 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: how do they react to changes like the sunlight?
06:03 PM phipli: about 1.5" diameter
06:04 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight: they can't see at night so dark is scary
06:05 PM JT-Shop: it's fun to watch them chase each other when they have a prize in their beak
06:06 PM JT-Shop: put together a new pc for my windoze desktop and what a pain having to set everything up but worth it for a M.2 drive
06:06 PM phipli: m.2 is amazing
06:07 PM JT-Shop: I just built a server with one and ubuntu server installed so fast I was wondering if it really installed...
06:07 PM phipli: heh
06:07 PM phipli: it is quite a step up in speed
06:07 PM sync: yeah, spinning rust is only good for bulk storage in 2017
06:08 PM phipli: I'm looking forward to a burst in solid state storage capacity though
06:08 PM phipli: I'm booting from 512GB atm
06:08 PM phipli: I was booting from 512GB in 2008
06:09 PM JT-Shop: this group didn't like a dark coop...
06:09 PM phipli: wouldn't go in?
06:10 PM XXCoder: add tiny led light?
06:10 PM phipli: if I accidentally leave ours locked out until twilight, they hide behind the bins
06:11 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder: I wake them up at 5am atm and they need to have time to find their favorite place to roost
06:11 PM phipli: after two years, ours have only recently started roosting consistently
06:12 PM phipli: some of them always used to sleep in the nest boxes before
06:12 PM phipli: anyways
06:12 PM JT-Shop: the first group was johnny on the spot to get on the roost, mostly pointing the same way
06:12 PM JT-Shop: made morning poop clean up easy lol
06:12 PM phipli: I should probably head off
06:12 PM JT-Shop: I block off the nest boxes until they are of age
06:13 PM phipli: night folks
06:13 PM JT-Shop: ok goodnight
06:14 PM ve7it: interesting new mini beagle bone (still with 2 PRUs) http://beagleboard.org/pocket/ a little light on ram 512K
06:15 PM malcom2073: And only $25
06:16 PM malcom2073: I ran machinekit on a BBB for a while
06:17 PM ve7it: yes... $33.79 in Canuck dollars it would be hard to find that board with all the i/o wires attached
06:17 PM malcom2073: Heh yeah
06:17 PM malcom2073: ribbon cable it up I guess
06:17 PM JT-Shop: goodnight
06:19 PM ve7it: gnite jt
09:03 PM MrBusiness3 is now known as MRBusiness
09:04 PM MRBusiness is now known as MrBusiness
09:14 PM gene83: I'm checking out, gotta reboot, all my terminal sessions have goneaway, twice in last 10-12 hours, Uptime 94 days....
09:42 PM * XXCoder sighs
09:42 PM XXCoder: I'm glad my job depends less on beoing now than when I started working
09:43 PM XXCoder: usa apparently set 220% tariff on bombardier jets, and they may relitate by ending relationship with boeing
09:43 PM XXCoder: which would cost usa thousands jobs
09:44 PM malcom2073: Ouch. The guys we rent our building from do a ton of machining for jet mfgs, I wonder if boeing is one of them
09:45 PM XXCoder: boeing is one who complained about bombardier being unfair with goverment subitized stuff
09:45 PM XXCoder: dunno what goverment it is, I presume canda.
09:45 PM XXCoder: both ukl and canada is pissed about this apparently.
09:52 PM sync: good for airbus
09:53 PM XXCoder: I guess
09:58 PM Tom_L: you have bombardier there too?
09:58 PM Tom_L: they bought out learjet here and occupy that
09:58 PM Tom_L: or combined or some crap
09:58 PM Tom_L: their junk isn't as good as boeing anyway is it?
09:59 PM XXCoder: seems bombardier works on wings for boeing
09:59 PM XXCoder: jets specifically
10:03 PM evilroot: That industry is all pretty interconnected
10:03 PM evilroot: But the US in particular likes to give big advantages to home aerospace companies, given how connected they are with defense
10:04 PM XXCoder: yeah thats why boeing accusion is bit strange
10:04 PM Tom_L: maybe they don't want that tech getting overseas?
10:05 PM CaptHindsight: follow the money
10:05 PM Tom_L: i went thru a shop here that made 117 parts and they escorted you everywhere
10:05 PM XXCoder: no, boeing complained that bombardier (gonna love that name) was getting goverment assistance
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: US guberment assistance?
10:06 PM XXCoder: canada
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: pot meet kettle
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/boeing-bombardier-dispute-is-trumpism-at-its-worst/article36411051/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
10:09 PM XXCoder: aha quebec
10:11 PM XXCoder: more details than one I read, though more oniption, but also missing that canada and UK is angry about tariff.
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: so if Bombardier goes belly up then then parts will get sold to ChinaCo making competition even harder for Being
10:11 PM XXCoder: indeed
10:11 PM XXCoder: chinese makes stuff very cheaply
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: well things with more than a step or two are hard on the brain
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: make merika great!
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: agin
10:13 PM XXCoder: Make All Guns Amazing
10:14 PM Wolf__: most of mine already are… https://i.imgur.com/kW19drJl.jpg
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: last fall I was worried that Trump would not be bad enough to get it through peoples heads what someone like him will do for us
10:14 PM XXCoder: isnt you very republican?
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: I may have underestimated ow much of a train wreck he actually is
10:15 PM XXCoder: I think virtually everyone did
10:15 PM XXCoder: and I thought he would cut ADA and everything
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: me I'm so liberal I'm more Martian than anything
10:16 PM XXCoder: hah I had wrong impression then
10:16 PM XXCoder: anyway he havent done what I feared but he have damaged lot of stuff I thought would be untouchable
10:16 PM tiwake: yasnak: are you around?
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: sarcasm doesn't always get conveyed on irc
10:16 PM tiwake: yasnak: did you have issues with the hurricane though the area?
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: I'm pro assault rifles, automatic weapons and small explosives (hand grenades, RPG's etc)
10:20 PM jdh: rpgs might be excessive
10:21 PM XXCoder: I dont like weapons much at all
10:21 PM * Wolf__ might be called a gun nut
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: the sooner we let people play with them the quicker we'll realize why we need better idiots
10:21 PM jdh: so much so you picked your nick from crappy steel ammo?
10:21 PM Wolf__: no…
10:22 PM Wolf__: oddly I’ve never shot wolf ammo lol
10:22 PM jdh: prob fine for an ak
10:22 PM jdh: but, not for real barrels
10:23 PM XXCoder: Wolf__: so how digits in your count of guns you have?
10:23 PM Wolf__: hell I don’t shoot to much in the way of commercial ammo even https://i.imgur.com/Re3xmGSl.jpg
10:24 PM Wolf__: under 3 XXCoder
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: same for drugs, let Darwin take care of it
10:24 PM XXCoder: nutty gun owner then. crazies start at 100 and above lol
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: but make treating mental illness a priority
10:24 PM evilroot: lol rpgs
10:25 PM jdh: you need a nice motor and vfd for the dillon
10:25 PM XXCoder: capt indeed
10:25 PM evilroot: I'm right in the middle with guns
10:25 PM XXCoder: me? guns is fine, treat it like cars
10:25 PM XXCoder: license and insurance
10:25 PM XXCoder: thats it
10:25 PM evilroot: I believe there are 3 legit reasons to own a gun. Self defense, hunting, and sporting
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: after a few RPG's go astray and wipe out a school bus, bowling alley etc. people will get a grip
10:26 PM Wolf__: maryland already has more regulation then just a license, and look at baltimore...
10:26 PM evilroot: Guns are tools like any other. Some are made for specific purposes, some multitask
10:26 PM evilroot: But an AR-15 sucks at all 3 of those things
10:26 PM tiwake: Wolf__: I've done some reloading before... honestly more reloading than actual shooting... heh
10:26 PM evilroot: I agree with the driver's license analogy. Insurance not really
10:26 PM Wolf__: tiwake: with that reloading setup I have, 100rds of ammo = 15min if I’m working slow
10:27 PM evilroot: You should have to show you know the basics of safety, handling, proper use of deadly force
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.medicaldaily.com/portugal-drug-experiment-heroin-decriminalizing-drugs-382598
10:27 PM tiwake: Wolf__: yeah
10:27 PM evilroot: Weapons made for war are pretty crappy for defense, hunting, etc
10:27 PM Wolf__: AR-15 is good for gun games (3 gun shoots)
10:27 PM evilroot: If you want to defend your home? Get a fucking shotgun
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: grenade bass fishing?
10:28 PM tiwake: Wolf__: I know several people with such setups, just never shot enough to warrant such... maybe one day I'll make a fully automated setup and get a type 11FFL to manufacture ammunition or something
10:28 PM evilroot: Your person, a pistol
10:28 PM jdh: you can have a shotgun and an ar
10:28 PM evilroot: AR has no place on the street IMHO
10:28 PM Wolf__: I <3 shotguns https://i.imgur.com/dIRfCOwl.png =)
10:28 PM evilroot: And every actual combat vet I know agrees
10:28 PM evilroot: Which kind of surprised me
10:29 PM tiwake: evilroot: not any that I know
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: oh come on https://www.helibacon.com/
10:29 PM Wolf__: 5.56 round kinda sucks, other then for weight
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: it's perfectly safe and fun
10:29 PM jdh: you can carry a lot of ineffective rounds
10:29 PM Wolf__: I like this thing https://i.imgur.com/Ms5uhfPl.jpg
10:29 PM evilroot: I mean because think about it. ARs, AKs, etc aren't meant to kill nessecarily. They're meant to create a certain percentage of deaths and a certain percentage of wounds
10:29 PM tiwake: Wolf__: 0.223 is fine for smaller things, which are the kind of things I'd be shooting at anyway
10:30 PM evilroot: Because that's best war wise
10:30 PM evilroot: A shotgun or even a pistol has a lot more stopping power
10:30 PM Wolf__: tiwake: yup, good for banging steel plates as well
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: instead of food stamps you hand out AR's on the weekends for hunting
10:30 PM evilroot: Unless you're up against say a SWAT team, in which case you're fucked either way
10:30 PM tiwake: Wolf__: for fairly cheaply, yeah
10:30 PM evilroot: If you need an AR to hunt I suggest taking up fishing, heh
10:31 PM sync: evilroot: this has also do with the legalities and circumstances of war
10:31 PM evilroot: For hunting a shotgun or a good long rifle
10:31 PM tiwake: evilroot: to be fair, the AR platform can be morphed into whatever caliber rifle you want
10:31 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: then kids could provide for their elderly family members
10:31 PM evilroot: But there's just no damned point in owning an AR-15 or AK-47
10:31 PM Wolf__: evilroot: that sr-25 type rifle I linked is good for hunting and other things
10:31 PM tiwake: can even get 0.50BMG AR rifle
10:32 PM evilroot: But WHY THOUGH
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: I don't expect a child to be able to take down a pig or deer with a simple rifle
10:32 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: then why let them hunt?
10:32 PM tiwake: because it exists, so somebody must own it
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: freedom
10:32 PM Wolf__: 50bmg upper for AR is only single shot
10:32 PM evilroot: I call it irresponsibility
10:32 PM tiwake: (honestly I certainly would not mind an AW50 or similar :)
10:32 PM evilroot: Wolf__, : so WHY DO IT
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: self sufficiency
10:33 PM sync: evilroot: why not?
10:33 PM Wolf__: idk, I don’t own a 50bmg
10:33 PM evilroot: Because its a huge waste of money and horribly dangerous not only to the owner but to others?
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: 200-300 years age we had kids commanding military naval vessels
10:33 PM Wolf__: no long range shooting ranges anywhere close to me so its kinda pointless
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: age/ago
10:33 PM sync: well, the waste of money is not one of your problems
10:33 PM evilroot: True
10:33 PM tiwake: evilroot: you could say that for anything in existence
10:33 PM sync: people also buy art
10:34 PM sync: which is a waste of money, in most sensible ways
10:34 PM evilroot: tiwake: which is why we have common sense laws about a lot of things
10:34 PM tiwake: common sense laws should not exist
10:34 PM evilroot: Nobody thinks a civilian should have a nuclear weapon
10:34 PM tiwake: because the people without common sense would kill themselves off
10:34 PM evilroot: No matter how rich they are
10:34 PM Wolf__: I know a couple of guys that own 50’s that belong to the shooting clubs I’m in, I couldn’t care less about them
10:34 PM evilroot: tiwake: or kill OTHER people off
10:35 PM jdh: paying for 50's seems silly
10:35 PM tiwake: evilroot: they would be killed anyway from capital punishment, so they die anyway
10:35 PM evilroot: See its funny, when it comes to guns I'm way too liberal for one side and too conservative for the other
10:35 PM Wolf__: lol
10:36 PM evilroot: I've been shooting since I was 11 and I'm damned good at it
10:36 PM XXCoder: been reading ring of fire book series. one rifle they called "You don't need that shoulder"
10:36 PM jdh: I don't understand your anti-ar thing
10:36 PM XXCoder: that made me laugh so much.
10:36 PM evilroot: jdh: quite simply, what makes it a worthwhile gun to own?
10:36 PM evilroot: I mean practically
10:36 PM evilroot: And does that outweigh its HUGE potential for abuse?
10:36 PM jdh: they are nice mechanical systems
10:36 PM jdh: that part is silly
10:37 PM jdh: all are subject to misuse
10:37 PM evilroot: Yeah, but as a gun for a private citizen what are they GOOD for?
10:37 PM evilroot: Defending your home?
10:37 PM Wolf__: everything is subject to abuse
10:37 PM jdh: what is a mercedes good for vs. a kia?
10:37 PM evilroot: That's apples and oranges
10:37 PM evilroot: An AR-15 isn't just a fancier luxury gun
10:38 PM evilroot: Its a weapon designed for an entirely different purpose
10:38 PM Wolf__: odd one of mine is lol
10:38 PM evilroot: That being WAR
10:38 PM evilroot: Am I wrong?
10:38 PM Wolf__: no 3rd burst, AR-15 is just a semi auto rifle
10:38 PM jdh: it is no more lethal or ripe for 'abuse' than anything else
10:38 PM jdh: it just looks black and tacticool
10:39 PM Wolf__: sorta like calling a riced out honda the assault version
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: in general people are good natured, responsible and take care of each other..
10:39 PM evilroot: I disagree. It is meant to engage multiple opponents over a longer period
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: deal harshly and justly with the trouble makers
10:40 PM evilroot: Except it doesn't!
10:40 PM jdh: so what is the opposition then?
10:40 PM evilroot: It overpenetrates, individual shots have less stopping power, etc
10:41 PM tiwake: depends on the ammo
10:41 PM evilroot: jdh: because its more suited to hurting a bunch of people than it is any practical use
10:41 PM XXCoder: tacticool jdh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCv6fKoOujI
10:41 PM evilroot: Its just that simple
10:41 PM Wolf__: very ammo dependent, hell 5.56/223 is just barely legal for deer hunting in terms of ballistics in most states
10:41 PM jdh: ok, we have solved that then.
10:42 PM evilroot: Its a weapon meant for war, its just that simple
10:42 PM tiwake: full metal jacket ammo will punch though most things, and people stopping bullets won't go though much more than drywall
10:42 PM evilroot: So why have it on the streets?
10:42 PM Wolf__: AR rifle is the most popular in the USA for a while now because they are easy to configure at home
10:42 PM jdh: and they are inexpensive
10:43 PM tiwake: people bullets also works well for coyotes, rats, and other varmints
10:43 PM CaptHindsight: you make it sound like selfish people would shoot others just for money, food, sex, fun, fear, etc
10:43 PM Wolf__: only in the inner city Capt
10:43 PM jdh: sounds like he is in chicago
10:44 PM * evilroot sighs
10:44 PM CaptHindsight: country people don't act this way
10:44 PM evilroot: Rats with an AR?
10:44 PM evilroot: Honestly
10:44 PM tiwake: if you own land you have to be able to keep the land, that includes varmints... critters that want to take your stuff... people are not exempt either, but is not necessarily the primary reason for having one
10:44 PM jdh: you're right. 308 much better for rats
10:44 PM Wolf__: I’m in Maryland, where they banned sale of ar-15 rifles 4 years ago
10:45 PM Wolf__: didn’t seem to slow things down in baltimore what so ever
10:45 PM evilroot: If you want a varmit gun get a .22lr
10:45 PM evilroot: I mean lord
10:45 PM CaptHindsight: Wolf__: can you still own one vs buy them?
10:45 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: yep
10:45 PM tiwake: evilroot: some critters won't let you get close enough to be touched with a .22lr
10:45 PM Wolf__: can own one if its pre 2013 owned, or its a heavy barreled variant
10:45 PM jdh: then they prob don't need to be touched
10:45 PM tiwake: and some you want to be much further away
10:46 PM tiwake: jdh: depends on the acreage
10:46 PM Wolf__: tiwake: 22-250 imo =)
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: do people really need a firearm to deal with nuisance critters?
10:46 PM jdh: need covers a lot of ground
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: do people still need to hunt?
10:46 PM Wolf__: I use to do ground hog/woodchuck elimination for farmers
10:46 PM tiwake: Wolf__: I'm thinking more along the lines of bears|whatever, but scales down to rats... whatever is on your property that needs to not be there
10:47 PM Wolf__: spendy when you tip a tractor over in one of their holes in the fields
10:47 PM jdh: ar + bear would be silly
10:47 PM tiwake: right
10:47 PM CaptHindsight: grenade + bear
10:47 PM tiwake: thats what the AK is for
10:47 PM CaptHindsight: I'd run
10:47 PM jdh: rpg for the bear
10:47 PM tiwake: or AR-10
10:47 PM tiwake: :3
10:47 PM Wolf__: 300win, 338 win or 375h&h for bear
10:48 PM CaptHindsight: do their paws fit the triggers?
10:48 PM jdh: some-other-guy-with-a-gun for the bear
10:48 PM Wolf__: dunno if I would go with my 260/308 gun vs bear
10:48 PM * tiwake shrugs... .308 is about the starting point for bear
10:49 PM tiwake: 30-30 would "work"
10:49 PM Wolf__: depends on distance and what flavor bear lol
10:49 PM tiwake: but enh
10:49 PM tiwake: ##guns
10:50 PM Wolf__: gunsmithing = machining imo =P
10:50 PM tiwake: this is true
10:50 PM tiwake: well, sorta
10:51 PM tiwake: Wolf__: it works that way, but not the other way around
10:51 PM Wolf__: yeah lol
10:51 PM tiwake: so its technically not equitable to
10:51 PM tiwake: more like a subset
10:52 PM Wolf__: yup, gunsmithing takes a very odd and wide skill set
10:52 PM tiwake: my first boss was a very good machinist and a gun collector... but he was not very good at gunsmithing... even though he did a fair amount of it
10:52 PM jdh: did he use a dremel?
10:52 PM jdh: oh, good machinist... nevermind
10:53 PM tiwake: neh, he was a proper machinist, as I said, quite good at it
10:53 PM evilroot: A 12ga slug will take down damned near anything
10:53 PM jdh: I don't want to be within 12ga slug range of an irate bear
10:54 PM CaptHindsight: life liberty and the pursuit of happiness
10:54 PM evilroot: Dude, a slug out of a rifled barrel is accurate to 100+ yards
10:55 PM jdh: and?
10:55 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: s/happines/gun/
10:55 PM Wolf__: bear run fast
10:55 PM evilroot: If you're further than that how is the bear any danger?
10:55 PM tiwake: evilroot: property (including livestock)
10:55 PM evilroot: Then use a good hunting rifle
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: just because poor frustrated youth in cities use them on each other doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to own any weapon I wish
10:55 PM tiwake: varmints come in all sizes
10:56 PM evilroot: Would an AR-15 or AK-47 be any more effective?
10:56 PM tiwake: AK-47 would be effective
10:56 PM tiwake: AR-10 would work as well
10:56 PM tiwake: bigger would be better in this case
10:56 PM Wolf__: ar-15 in 65. grendel
10:56 PM Wolf__: 6.5*
10:56 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: so people should be able to own missile launcers?
10:56 PM evilroot: *launchers
10:57 PM tiwake: .338 laupa might be ideal
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: making guns should also be legal and unregulated
10:57 PM tiwake: or 0.50BMG
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: as long as it doesn't encroach on your right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness why not?
10:57 PM evilroot: BECAUSE IT DOES!
10:57 PM Wolf__: making guns for personal use is unregulated and legal
10:57 PM Wolf__: unless you are a felon
10:57 PM evilroot: Wolf__, : no, no it is not
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: what if I want to make and sell guns, why should that be regulated?
10:58 PM evilroot: Legal yes, unregulated NO
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: so have a flat tax
10:58 PM Wolf__: well, it is regulated, you can’t make them for resale or you need a 07 FFL
10:58 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: for the same reason making moonshine is. It can be horribly dangerous
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: can be
10:59 PM evilroot: But to just to you
10:59 PM tiwake: evilroot: making guns is not illegal
10:59 PM evilroot: To others
10:59 PM jdh: you must protect them from themselves!
10:59 PM Wolf__: and there is 11% tax on manufacturing a firearm for resale
10:59 PM evilroot: tiwake: like I said it IS legal but regulated
10:59 PM tiwake: evilroot: making moonshine is illegal
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: who protects us from bankers?
10:59 PM evilroot: That's an entirely different issue and I agree
10:59 PM Wolf__: and ITAR registration...
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: oh forgot the 1-2 step rule
11:00 PM jdh: almost noone dies from AR's. relatively. especially compared to alcohol deaths
11:00 PM Wolf__: I get to look in to doing all that shit soon, 07/02 and ITAR paperwork
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: whats wrong with death?
11:00 PM tiwake: screw that
11:00 PM evilroot: jdh: all causes of death are tiny compared to alcohol deaths, heh
11:00 PM tiwake: oh, screw death too
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: organisms are born and die all the time
11:00 PM jdh: right, so your anti-ar thing is kinda silly. Be anti-alcohol
11:01 PM evilroot: So you want the purge?
11:01 PM sync: be anti .22
11:01 PM Wolf__: I hate .22
11:01 PM evilroot: I love target shooting with my .22 pistol
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: the purge, but people are basically good
11:01 PM Wolf__: shit is still too over priced
11:01 PM sync: still kills most of the people
11:01 PM evilroot: For reference I own 3 guns
11:01 PM jdh: all ar's?
11:02 PM evilroot: lol
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: if someone dies from alcohol and doesn't kill/hurt anyone else what is the issue?
11:02 PM jdh: it is briefly sad.
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: like while driving a bus = bad
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: vs alone in abasement
11:02 PM Wolf__: i’m somewhere close to 50+ guns
11:02 PM evilroot: A Remington 870, which lives next to my bed
11:02 PM Wolf__: only a couple have killed people probably
11:03 PM evilroot: Well, normally. I also use it for deer
11:03 PM evilroot: A Glock 17 Gen 3 for CCW
11:03 PM jdh: https://www.classicfirearms.com/ar12-semi-auto-ar-15-platform-12ga-shotgun
11:03 PM evilroot: And a CZ-75B with the Kadet bareel I use for plinking at the range
11:04 PM jdh: 22 is so unsatisfying
11:04 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: I don't understand how getting drunk is worse than making your own alcohol
11:04 PM tiwake: but for some reason it is
11:04 PM evilroot: jdh: not the AR or AK platform in 12ga I don't really mind
11:04 PM tiwake: oh, right, taxes
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: me either
11:04 PM evilroot: But very specific use
11:04 PM tiwake: gotta get that tax
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: what is wrong with either anyway
11:05 PM evilroot: I'd really love to have a Saiga 12, which is pretty much an AK chambered in 12ga
11:05 PM tiwake: and when you get too much alcohol they get the death tax, so it all works out
11:05 PM Wolf__: evilroot: https://i.imgur.com/Ixg9jTil.jpg
11:05 PM evilroot: That's a real beauty!
11:05 PM CaptHindsight: forcing alcohol on someone else is wrong
11:06 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: how often does that happen?
11:06 PM Wolf__: shoots pretty good as well, 25yd one handed hold https://i.imgur.com/XTAGri0l.jpg
11:06 PM tiwake: probably not very much
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: like buying someone a shot?
11:06 PM evilroot: tiwake: ever been to a frat party?
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: all the time :)
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: vs strapped to a chair with a funnel in your mouth
11:07 PM * evilroot is an NRA certified Expert Marksman with a long rifle
11:07 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: the option to turn down a drink is always there... when I've had enough I dump the rest of my drink... some people think that dumping drinks is evil
11:07 PM evilroot: Which REALLY pissed off my parents, because I was 12
11:07 PM Wolf__: evilroot: https://i.imgur.com/uiZpMTXl.jpg this was a pretty piece as well
11:07 PM evilroot: Summer camp had a riflery course, heh
11:08 PM evilroot: Wolf__, : that a 20ga?
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: when I was a kid I would have loved machine gun camp
11:08 PM Wolf__: winchester 71 348win
11:08 PM evilroot: Nice!
11:08 PM sync: tiwake: yeah, what has been served is gonna end up in me
11:08 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: I've done drinking games/parties/whatever... idiots are still idiots, but nothing is technically forced... guess I just don't care what other people think of me in general
11:08 PM Wolf__: I traded it off after it sat in the gunshop for 6 years
11:08 PM evilroot: Talk about a classic lever gun
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: control freaks need to control
11:09 PM evilroot: Win 71 . . . is it a modern reproduction?
11:09 PM evilroot: Or just really that old?
11:09 PM Wolf__: original
11:09 PM tiwake: now that I live in texas I pretty much have to get a big rifle at some point
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: alcohol, sex, firearms etc
11:09 PM evilroot: Jesus, didn't they stop making those in like the 50's?
11:10 PM Wolf__: dad bought it new after high school, so late 40’s
11:10 PM evilroot: Can you even get ammo any more? Or do you have to hand load
11:10 PM tiwake: evilroot: pretty sure he hand loads everything he owns
11:10 PM tiwake: regardless
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/465830/8997040/1287331389407/Chinese+scooter.jpg
11:11 PM Wolf__: did a straight trade w/ the owner of larue for the 260 semi rifle I got https://i.imgur.com/Ms5uhfP.jpg
11:11 PM evilroot: tiwake: you'd kind of have to, I mean hard to buy ammo that hasn't been used in any gun in 50+ years
11:11 PM Wolf__: oddly you can still find the 348 ammo
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: why should they have to wear helmets? ^^
11:12 PM evilroot: Oddly the one gun I always REALLY wanted was a Mateba Autorevolver
11:12 PM tiwake: Wolf__: I need to find somebody with a wireEDM machine to make a savage long-action from scratch
11:12 PM evilroot: But they're crazy rare
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: also works in India http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/23/13/video-undefined-27E6EF3A00000578-946_636x358.jpg
11:12 PM Wolf__: tiwake: I haven’t looked at the action is on one of those
11:13 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: the baby was photoshopped in
11:13 PM XXCoder: rest is real though
11:13 PM tiwake: Wolf__: they are "easy" to make because it can all be done in the lathe
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: two very successful civilizations
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: nice touch, isn't it?
11:13 PM XXCoder: yeah easy catch though. light is all wrong
11:14 PM XXCoder: and yes, lid is on.. lol
11:14 PM Wolf__: buy ammo, whats that https://i.imgur.com/g8SnbJ5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/jU6bLPY.jpg https://i.imgur.com/co2AgmD.jpg lol
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: what are the people in power so afraid of?
11:15 PM tiwake: can't imagine
11:15 PM XXCoder: Don Jr. just needed to be rid of secret service protecion for a week. totally kosher
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: cramped his style
11:16 PM XXCoder: yeah didnt want any n his visit to russia
11:16 PM XXCoder: or in least some russia friends
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: nah, that is all right wing hooey
11:18 PM CaptHindsight: he has KGB protection anyway
11:19 PM XXCoder: lol
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: things are already better, too much cold war stuff, now Russia is our fiend/buddy
11:21 PM XXCoder: palin the shirtless horse rider
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: the bike pics are common there, it's pretty much the norm vs odd
11:22 PM XXCoder: im not too concerned about their culture and stuff
11:22 PM CaptHindsight: too much fuss here
11:23 PM evilroot: Most Russians like Putin
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: why not, they are Russians
11:24 PM evilroot: Which makes sense, it was a decaying shithole when he came into office
11:24 PM evilroot: He really did change things for the better for most people
11:24 PM evilroot: Unless, you know, you don't like him
11:25 PM evilroot: In which case enjoy your Polonium
11:25 PM XXCoder: well he may shit gold for russia, just concerned about what hes doing to yusa
11:25 PM evilroot: I just don't want that kind of shit here
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: making it great again
11:25 PM XXCoder: MARA MAGA
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: whats he gonna do with all those rubles in Russia?
11:26 PM evilroot: Unfortunately that's what happened with our gatorade orange turd of a retard president
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: spend and invest them here
11:26 PM * evilroot remembers why he usually doesn't talk about politics at night after a few beers
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: China lets you bring $ but not take it out
11:27 PM XXCoder: hes not orange anymore but I shall remember him as orange forever
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: almost Halloween https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiSIQzwIPzQ Great Pumpkin
11:29 PM * Tom_L deletes 3k of scrollback
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: no harm no foul, any LCNC question or issue would have preempted the discussions