#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 16 2017

12:00 AM XXCoder: depends on size of rail heh
12:03 AM MarcelineVQ: ultrasonic cleaners are so dang cool
12:06 AM evilroot: Yeah, we're talking 1500mm rails
12:06 AM evilroot: THK SR-W series
12:06 AM evilroot: 25mm bore
12:13 AM MarcelineVQ: down to a degreaser and a tarp I guess :( any product that says solvent degreaser/brake cleaner should put a dent in that. Not sure if there's degreasers that damage steel but some can damage alu/mag
12:17 AM MarcelineVQ: 5 foot rails though gosh
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: keep water away from iron and steel
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: keep alkalines away from aluminum
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: even a water rinse on steel is ok as long as you get it dry afterward
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: how dirty are they? a wipe with a rag should do it
12:22 AM XXCoder: dried and oiled
12:22 AM XXCoder: or lubed whatever
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: dried what?
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: old grease wipes off
12:24 AM XXCoder: yeah if wash in water or whatever
12:24 AM MarcelineVQ: for me really old grease only seems to scrape off, without a solvent
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: brake cleaner
12:25 AM zeeshan: XXCoder: you make parts for infinity cars?
12:25 AM XXCoder: heh planes more like
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: acetone, toluene, Tetrachloroethylene, isopropyl alcohol
12:26 AM XXCoder: been making airplane belt part for few months now. that will never end it seems.
12:29 AM evilroot: I tried brake cleaner and various other spray solvents
12:30 AM evilroot: They needed a lot of manual work and didn't remove the tarnish
12:30 AM evilroot: Short of using a power tool
12:32 AM CaptHindsight: rust?
12:33 AM evilroot: Yes. Very minor, but underneath all that old grease
12:33 AM MarcelineVQ: lately for kitchen ware I've been using orange pummice cleaner, like https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41-2JQ31tmL._SY355_.jpg , to clean off the surfaces and remove tarnish and it's quite gentle but very effective. It's pretty manual still so probably not suitable for you
12:34 AM evilroot: Its on the exposed surfaces, not the bearing paths
12:38 AM MarcelineVQ: when it comes to rust I'd be inclined to use some fine paper if it's not on a bearing surface, or if you're adventurous a wire wheel of an appropriate size, dremel or angle grinder. probably better to avoid the twisted wire kind on fancy equipment
12:38 AM evilroot: They're basically big chunks of very precisely milled tool steel
12:39 AM MarcelineVQ: there's rust removers but I've no idea how effective they are, or if they introduce other problems
12:39 AM evilroot: That's the thing, the internet seems rather split about it
12:39 AM evilroot: What does and doesn't work
12:39 AM evilroot: Ups and downsides
12:39 AM evilroot: Fingured maybe someone had some experience
12:40 AM andypugh: Molasses
12:40 AM andypugh: 10:1 water to mollasses and leave to soak for as long as it takes. Possibly weeks.
12:40 AM evilroot: That's literally the worst idea ever :-D
12:40 AM MarcelineVQ: that can cause pitting
12:40 AM MarcelineVQ: allthough I suppose the rust already has
12:41 AM andypugh: As far as I can tell mollasses is super-gentle, and does not seem to remove any more metal.
12:41 AM evilroot: Or anything else
12:41 AM evilroot: And adds to it, haha
12:42 AM XXCoder: add salt to that water? :P
12:42 AM evilroot: Even better!
12:42 AM XXCoder: I dont know what molasses though
12:42 AM XXCoder: *is
12:42 AM evilroot: Just like boiling pasta
12:42 AM evilroot: XXCoder: basically sugar syrup
12:42 AM andypugh: You asked for ideas and experience, and you are rejecting both out of hand.
12:42 AM MarcelineVQ: Maybe there's something special, but molasses just seems like another way to use acid
12:43 AM * evilroot sighs
12:43 AM andypugh: Molasses is not acid.
12:44 AM andypugh: It’s a “chelation” process.
12:44 AM andypugh: about half way down this page is the results I got with my very, very, rusty old motorcycle http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/1921-ner-car.html
12:45 AM MarcelineVQ: alrighty. I've got molasses and some rusty stuff so I'm going to try it out :D
12:48 AM andypugh: It’s very slow. But that’s not a bad thing.
12:50 AM andypugh: Do you agree that it tarted rusty an became less rusty?
12:51 AM andypugh: And without any mechanical abrasion.
12:51 AM andypugh: (started)
12:59 AM MarcelineVQ: there's certainly a lot of vids backing up the molasses method
01:00 AM MarcelineVQ: or at least trying it :>
01:00 AM XXCoder: can always grab some steel, leave it in salt water for a bit
01:00 AM XXCoder: then test that method
01:01 AM XXCoder: andypugh: yeah
01:20 AM andypugh: And I am now on the first page of the forum backlog (working away from home)
01:20 AM XXCoder: yay
01:30 AM zeeshan: andypugh: have you sized motors before
01:30 AM zeeshan: for certain automation applications
01:30 AM andypugh: Not properly.
01:31 AM zeeshan: its pretty involved..
01:31 AM XXCoder: pretty simple. lol
01:31 AM zeeshan: i wish i had a proper solution to compare my numbers with
01:31 AM zeeshan: before i take it to the sr eng
01:31 AM andypugh: Yes, I have only ever looked at torque and speed, never got involved in inertia matching etc.
01:31 AM zeeshan: yea.. same here
01:31 AM zeeshan: but inertia matching is probably the most important thing
01:32 AM zeeshan: like from my numbers for this system im designing
01:32 AM XXCoder: no idea what inertia matching is lol googling
01:32 AM zeeshan: the run torque is only 4.7 lb-in
01:32 AM zeeshan: but the acceleration torque is 9.42lb-in !
01:33 AM zeeshan: and just blatently oversizing the motor leads to a large rotor inertia
01:33 AM XXCoder: interesting
01:33 AM zeeshan: XXCoder: do you know F = ma ?
01:33 AM zeeshan: if you have a mass, and you apply a force to it, it accelerates
01:33 AM XXCoder: yeah I know what interia is, just not internia matching
01:34 AM zeeshan: inertia matching means that you make sure that the ratio between the rotor inertia and the load inertia
01:34 AM zeeshan: does not exceed a certain ratio
01:34 AM zeeshan: ideally you want it to be 1:1
01:34 AM XXCoder: article says 10:1
01:34 AM zeeshan: but upto 5:1 is acceptable
01:34 AM XXCoder: or less that is
01:34 AM XXCoder: interesting
01:34 AM zeeshan: basically my understanding is that if you take a really small motor
01:34 AM zeeshan: and couple it to a big ass heavy load
01:35 AM zeeshan: the small motor will never be able to accelerate the load quickly
01:35 AM zeeshan: you'll have to ramp up slowly (kinda like my cnc :( )
01:35 AM XXCoder: same as mine though not too bad
01:37 AM zeeshan: ok too much thinking at 2:00 am :)
01:37 AM XXCoder: lol night
01:37 AM zeeshan: cu
02:28 AM Deejay: moin
02:35 AM archivist: zeeshan, last did inertia through a gear train about 20+years ago in a printer
02:41 AM XXCoder: good morning!
02:47 AM fdarling: trying "git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/linuxcnc.git linuxcnc" seems to time out for me, is this location outdated or is the server down?
02:50 AM XXCoder: that site is no more
02:50 AM archivist: moved to github
02:50 AM XXCoder: new url though dont remember what it is. wish gthx exists here, I have scripts but not configured it to run
02:51 AM archivist: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
02:51 AM archivist: !wench learn github is https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
02:51 AM the_wench: I have learned github is https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
02:53 AM XXCoder: githul?
02:53 AM XXCoder: github?
02:53 AM XXCoder: guess works differently
02:54 AM archivist: github
02:54 AM the_wench: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
02:59 AM Connor: is $2300.00 for a late model brideport with .005/.007 backlash x/y -- 1 1/2hp step pulley head a good price ?
03:00 AM Cromaglious_: not bad...
03:00 AM Connor: No scales, no power feed that I can see. Looks very clean.. 9x49 table with bijur one shot lube
03:00 AM Cromaglious_: around here that would be at least $2500 here in socal
03:01 AM Connor: Been looking for a nice mill for our Maker Space.. Manual.. not to be used for conversion.
03:01 AM Connor: Would like to have scales and power feed...
03:02 AM Connor: Doesn't say if it's 220 or 3-phase.
03:03 AM Cromaglious_: probably both
03:03 AM Connor: https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/d/bridgeport-mill/6307846686.html
03:03 AM Cromaglious_: or 460 3phase
03:04 AM Connor: Can do 3-phase at the space... no need for a phase converter.. thankfully.
03:04 AM archivist: looks very clean
03:04 AM archivist: repainted?
03:04 AM XXCoder: yeah looks like just used for few special tasks thats all
03:04 AM archivist: or little work
03:05 AM Connor: I may have to go and look at it tomorrow.
03:05 AM archivist: get over there!
03:05 AM XXCoder: arch dunno but paint do have typical chip damage so it might be repained and used since or never repainted
03:06 AM fdarling: Connor: which makerspace?
03:11 AM Cromaglious_: well I'm starting with a 44991 X2 HF mini mill...
03:11 AM Cromaglious_: belt conversion makes it SO much quieter
03:12 AM Connor: fdarling: knoxmakers.org
03:14 AM Connor: Crap.. guy says no texts or emails.. calls only.. but I don't see a phone number.. WTF.
03:15 AM archivist: just have to break the rules!
03:16 AM Connor: Oh. It's in the reply area.. normally they put the info in the post too.
03:22 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-Series-1-2HP-Milling-Machine-/322306972708?epid=1757610707&hash=item4b0afe1c24:g:KdQAAOSw-CpYB3NL
03:22 AM gloops: similar machine in UK
03:22 AM gloops: hmm maybe not so similar
03:23 AM Connor: No. Looks a bit more used.. has DRO's which is nice.. but.. being in the UK is a bit of a deal killer.
03:23 AM Connor: looks like power feeds aren't that $$$ I can add one of those..
03:23 AM gloops: yeah was just seeing what kind of money they go for here
03:23 AM Connor: DRO too.
03:24 AM gloops: lot of vertical travel on that one
03:25 AM archivist: http://www.middleton-leawood.org.uk/leawood/
03:27 AM gloops: going for the tour archivist?
03:28 AM archivist: gloops, I am one of the drivers :)
03:28 AM gloops: youre kidding
03:28 AM gloops: thats a dream job
03:28 AM archivist: job! we dont get paid
03:28 AM XXCoder: heh reminds me of post-dawn of internet age. pretty bare because pictures take time to download
03:28 AM gloops: ahh
03:28 AM XXCoder: but post-text only websites
03:29 AM XXCoder: but also pre-insanity website design that is later 90s lol
03:29 AM gloops: you need getright to open it XXCoder
03:29 AM XXCoder: open what
03:30 AM gloops: the webpage, lol, doesnt matter
03:30 AM XXCoder: I don't get it, as my browser loaded it just fine :P
03:32 AM gloops: well, im down to the last few mechanical tweaks today, and wire vfd to PC
03:33 AM archivist: or a walk by a canal :)
03:33 AM gloops: i havent got to do any scripting or anything to get vfd working from linuxcnc have i?
03:33 AM gloops: archivist ive spent more hours by canals than most people i dare say
03:33 AM gloops: mainly fishing as a youth
03:34 AM archivist: ours is a SSSI so no fishing
03:34 AM archivist: just special weeds!
03:35 AM gloops: tbh i think fishing should be stopped on a percentage of waterways, and other activities, some areas should just be left to nature
03:35 AM archivist: bout time for me to burger off up there
03:36 AM gloops: i will have one more tea then start - someone i know works on the mini railway at rosehill park in rotherham
03:42 AM archivist: we dont start the engine till about 12 but there is some preparation
03:42 AM archivist: boiler crew will already be there firing
03:49 AM XXCoder: LOL something like that happened to me... https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/instant-karma-1-592287de43b48__605.jpg
04:02 AM gloops: when did you realise your plate was missing XXCoder?
04:02 AM XXCoder: yeeah not my end... other guy end
04:02 AM XXCoder: guy was uninsured and tried to pass off someone elses insurance paper as his own
04:03 AM XXCoder: FAT ticket for him, if he stayed away he'd be arrested for hit and run
04:03 AM XXCoder: he did drive away, returned a couple minutes later hidden parked block away
04:03 AM XXCoder: walked to me, hoping to get license plate. I refused to hand it over to anyone but police
04:05 AM XXCoder: LOL! https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/instant-karma-24-5923e60dc7692__605.gif
04:06 AM gloops: some wide boys about
04:06 AM XXCoder: my sisters car was totaled
04:06 AM XXCoder: I borrowed it for literally one minute
04:07 AM gloops: thats an awkward explanation to make
04:07 AM gloops: did she get paid out?
04:07 AM XXCoder: after helping my sis pack, I was borrowing car because my car was being repaired, drove out of parking lot turned right, driving by next apartment parking lot when guy drove out of it at 50 mph or so
04:08 AM XXCoder: BOOM
04:08 AM XXCoder: guy hit car so hard front right tire was touching engine
04:08 AM XXCoder: it also killed brakes so I couldnt stop for few seconds engine worked, then engine died for good
04:09 AM gloops: lucky though in a way
04:09 AM XXCoder: and yeah she got 1,500 bucks more than she bought it for!
04:09 AM XXCoder: it was total crap car
04:09 AM XXCoder: she already had better car so she wasnt using it anyway
04:09 AM gloops: he could have killed somebody easy
04:09 AM XXCoder: very easily.
04:10 AM XXCoder: anyway after engine died I went out and saw van zooming away
04:10 AM XXCoder: I walked around looking at car. oh heyyy plate there...
04:10 AM gloops: well now they have the number plate recognition things its getting harder to drive uninsured, cops ride about all day flashing parked number plates, anything not up to date gets flagged up
04:10 AM XXCoder: he hit so hard that he smashed the frame holding license so it just fell off.
04:13 AM XXCoder: not really concerned with that, mines always current
04:14 AM gloops: ie let MOT expire over a week or 2 but never insurance
04:17 AM gloops: cops actually pulled me once, had taken car for MOT a few days before , couple of very minor faults but hadnt had time to fix them and take it back, luckily had the fail sheet on the back seat, when the cop saw it he said - i should be getting this car crushed, you drive straight home at no more than 40mph - if its seen again with no MOT its gone
04:19 AM XXCoder: apple stores is now named "town squares"
04:19 AM XXCoder: wtf
04:49 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: I find it objectionable that they outlawed effectively being able to insure the vehicle for the day.
04:50 AM XXCoder: insure for a day?
04:57 AM SpeedEvil: Previously, it was possible to simply insure your car for the day you happened to use it for a reasonably small amount. Now you have to have it continually insured, and the smallest possible legal period is somewhat over a month.
04:57 AM SpeedEvil: (for second vehicles or very rarely used primary vehicles)
04:58 AM XXCoder: ahh never knew that existed
04:58 AM Connor: gloops: MOT? What's that ?
04:58 AM SpeedEvil: Connor: a basic test of some limited mechanical functionality of the car.
04:58 AM SpeedEvil: It says the wheels will probably not fall off in the next year, and the brakes will probably work
04:58 AM gonzo_: gloops, you can drive to and from a place where you are pre booked to have mot fail repairs done. you can argue that you are taking it to a friends to work on it. but expext them to check up
04:59 AM Connor: Ahh.. Ok
04:59 AM SpeedEvil: (in the UK)
04:59 AM gonzo_: I have one to get done on monday
05:00 AM Connor: Just got my Transmission fixed in my 99 Ford Ranger. Tags are still dated 2015. I've kept them up.. just not sure where the bloody 2017 sticker is at..
05:00 AM gonzo_: I had a few things to do, but it was an excuse to buy a press.
05:01 AM XXCoder: no mot in usa. maybe should. lol
05:01 AM Connor: Please no.. Already too much red-tape
05:01 AM SpeedEvil: Some countries do _considerably_ more. UK MOT is a joke, compared to german, for example.
05:07 AM gonzo_: I treat it as a bare min std. rather than something to aspire to. as many people do.
05:20 AM jthornton: morning
05:22 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:23 AM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: really too bad on no one day insurance, it would be awesome for say a truck for me or something
05:23 AM XXCoder: something I would rarely use but need once a while
06:49 AM gloops: sorry was afk
06:50 AM gloops: i think the MOT is a good idea, even if its just for basics, lot of bald tyres, corroded brake pipes, worn brake pads, faulty steering, lives are at risk etc
06:52 AM gloops: and there are too many people who are happy to drive about like that rather than spend £50
06:52 AM XXCoder: cars is unsafe enough without car being maintance-free deathtraps
06:53 AM jthornton: weird my ds3231 RTC won't work right on my shop linux pc... I wonder if it is a bad usb cable
06:53 AM XXCoder: my couson died because his car steering wheel disconnected. he drove stright, car went hard left and off the bridge
06:53 AM XXCoder: jthornton: yeah always blame the cheapest part first :)
06:54 AM jthornton: well I brought everything down here except the usb cable and the pc of course
06:54 AM jthornton: need to add the RTC to my chicken door so it can turn the light on 12 hours before sunset
07:32 AM Tom_L: morning
07:39 AM jthornton: morning
07:44 AM jthornton: see if this looks right when you get a chance http://gnipsel.com/files/eagle/eagle%20t2.zip
07:45 AM Tom_L: what version is it?
07:47 AM jthornton: 6.5
07:51 AM Tom_L: did you run an ERC & DRC check on it?
07:51 AM jthornton: yep
07:51 AM Tom_L: it must be then :)
07:52 AM Tom_L: what layer did you put the txt on?
07:52 AM jthornton: 21
07:53 AM Tom_L: what's the boundary dotted line?
07:54 AM Tom_L: is that a pour?
07:54 AM jthornton: yes, click on ratsnest and it show up
07:54 AM Tom_L: yeah i'm not used to the new look of eagle
07:54 AM Tom_L: running 8
07:59 AM Tom_L: if you smash a part, you can move the txt around where you want it
07:59 AM Tom_L: (the stuff attached to each lib part)
08:00 AM Tom_L: if i don't want it to show up, i just drag it off the board
08:00 AM jthornton: yea did that once
08:00 AM Tom_L: i actually create 2 extra layers for that and put on those only what i want
08:00 AM jthornton: didn't know that part
08:00 AM Tom_L: then i send those layers in instead of the top/bottom txt layers
08:01 AM Tom_L: that probably wasn't in any tutorial
08:01 AM Tom_L: also, i enlarged the holes on some lib parts
08:02 AM Tom_L: i found, at least on the old libs i have that some are too tight
08:02 AM Tom_L: it's the shits when you've got a nice pretty board and you get it back and the components don't fit in the holes
08:04 AM Tom_L: i typically make the power traces a little wider just out of habit
08:04 AM Tom_L: did you run autoroute or route it yourself?
08:04 AM Tom_L: > 90 deg corners are frowned upon
08:05 AM Tom_L: (R3) etc
08:06 AM jthornton: autoroute
08:06 AM jthornton: like the blue trace going to r4?
08:06 AM Tom_L: i never use it. i don't like the way it routes boards and it's not all that smart when the boards get more populated
08:06 AM Tom_L: yeah
08:07 AM Tom_L: technically it follows the drc but i don't like the way the boards look when it's done
08:09 AM jthornton: I'll try and do my motor control board tomorrow
08:09 AM Tom_L: look at lib: holes
08:09 AM Tom_L: you can add mouting holes if you want
08:10 AM Tom_L: not bad for your first board
08:10 AM Tom_L: i've seen much much worse :D
08:11 AM Tom_L: did you find a lib for your relays?
08:11 AM Tom_L: or make the part
08:12 AM Tom_L: by now i wouldn't be surprised if they have a lib for those
08:13 AM jthornton: I didn't find one for the relay https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RTE24005F/PB295-ND/254512
08:13 AM MrSunshine: gah, old cnc computer broke .. that one had 6000 in jitter .. had to take a more modern computer i had ... have like 30 000 in jitter :/
08:13 AM MrSunshine: machine goes in snail speed
08:14 AM MrSunshine: i had a thought today ... would it help to desolder like soundchip etc from the motherboard ... so the computer wont get interrupted by stuff like that? =)
08:17 AM Tom_itx: https://github.com/chiengineer/Eagle-Libraries/tree/master/Relays
08:17 AM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
08:17 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, see if it might be in there
08:17 AM jthornton: ok
08:18 AM Tom_L: or pick one you can start with to mod
08:18 AM IchGucksLive: the best relais are in finder
08:20 AM Tom_L: back when i was doing it more, i found it quicker just to make the component i needed rather than trying to find a lib for it
08:20 AM Tom_L: libs were pretty sparce back then
08:21 AM Tom_L: and i'd increase the pads on some SMT components knowing i was gonna hand solder em
08:26 AM jthornton: that's a pretty big library and has some I can modify to be what I need
08:26 AM jthornton: thanks
08:28 AM Tom_L: np
08:32 AM jthornton: breakfast time :)
08:33 AM IchGucksLive: later ;-)
10:44 AM MrSunshine: oh, disabled all extra cores on the computer and got the jitter down from like 30k to 5k ..
10:51 AM Deejay: and now disable the last core also! :)
11:08 AM gloops: right, finally get my head roud wiring a vfd in
11:08 AM gloops: i need the 0-10v in the vdd pin, with ground
11:09 AM gloops: and a simple relay for the on off
11:09 AM Deejay: connect + to - and the red wire with the black one. and remember. current flows alwways from top to bottom ;)
11:09 AM gloops: tommorrows job, atm 22mm surfacing cutter is blacking the wood at 24000rpm
11:10 AM MrSunshine_: Deejay, haha =)
11:10 AM gloops: well i was relieved the dozen or so plugs on the vfd dont all need connecting
11:47 AM zeeshan: has anyone here use eclipse servo drives?
11:47 AM zeeshan: im thinking of using them for my lathe
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: Beer
12:19 PM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: the oktoberfest is opend
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: https://www.muenchen.tv/livestream/
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: hi jasonsmr
12:24 PM jasonsmr: hello
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: winter in view at the great lakes
12:51 PM MrSunshine_: hmm anyone know where one can find oversized balls for ballnuts ? =)
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: thi is quite a chanalge but i gueees better go new C5
12:54 PM MrSunshine_: i do not have any more money to throw at the machine now .. more than small money .. like balls for ballscrew .. got 0.05mm backlash in one nut
12:59 PM fdarling: I asked this earlier but X11 crashed shortly afterward :-P does anyone know how to clone the linuxcnc repository via git? The instructions online aren't working for me, it would seem the server isn't responding
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: github
01:03 PM the_wench: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: fdarling: use this repro
01:04 PM fdarling: IchGucksLive: it would seem the documentation is out of date then?
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: fdarling: why the clone not the DVD
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: Octoberfest! \0/
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: yiu are right on that
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: beer
01:04 PM fdarling: IchGucksLive: because I use Ubuntu 16.04 LTS on my main desktop and I want to experiment with the simulator. I do use the DVD on my stepper motor CNC router and my servo Bridgeport
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: ok
01:06 PM fdarling: IchGucksLive: what I'm trying to do is familiarize myself with the sourcecode and see how easy it is to create a new user interface for LinuxCNC
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: depends on what inrerface you looking for it might be not that chalange
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: there are now about 10+ iterfaces
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: everyone wants its own and puts hours into it insted giving the mains a try
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: https://github.com/KurtJacobson/hazzy/tree/GTK3
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: fdarling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANSRDQeWkMA
01:08 PM Crom_: ok just ordered 5pcs er32 C3/4 (TTS) tool holders and a er32 collet set.
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: he's working on a new GUI as well, drag and drop for setup
01:09 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: interesting, I'll definitely have to check that out
01:09 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I am interested in a new user interface as well, the current one is usable but clunky in some areas and of course looks quite dated, but I am actually more interested in changing the 3D preview
01:10 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I am interested in using LinuxCNC for 3D printing, and while people already do this with things like MachineKit, the preview is the same old wireframe preview of the entire G-code
01:10 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I want instead to have a "Repetier Host" style view where it shows the layers building one up one at a time with the ability to narrow the range of layers being displayed
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: fdarling: just hack into glcannon
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: then you got full color 3d
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H7_YmuVsho Oktoberfest: Mitschnitte der Wiesn Live-Webcam - Hofbräu-Festzelt
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: there is al ivecam
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: https://www.muenchen.tv/livestream/
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: i m closing here for today Gn8
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: I've been talking about that for years
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/2yEz1zoUZ5jZ.jpg
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: vs axisface
01:20 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: that looks photoshopped
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's a joke, it adds pronterface to the axus gui
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: FDM folk seem to not want 3D previews
01:24 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I mean 3D previews aren't as critical as with machining, people rely on double checking the CAM (slicers), but if you are going to see a preview it shouldn't be a rat's nest of white wireframe
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: you could just modify one of the current GUIs as well and show 3D of the layers of interest
01:25 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: yeah, that's why I want to familiarize myself with the source code
01:25 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I am also very interested in using LinuxCNC for general robotics that aren't CNCs, and it would seem most people feed it G-code but I want to know how hard it is to only use the trajectory portions of it
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gmoccapy.html
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/images/gmoccapy_4_axis.png
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: teach mode?
01:27 PM archivist: learn mode could generate gcode
01:27 PM fdarling: no it's not that I can't come up with G-code
01:28 PM fdarling: it's just that in some applications G-code doesn't make that much sense, I would prefer to strip that layer off if possible
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: archivist: I was trying to find other interpreters. Didn't someone do this for some 6 axis robot?
01:28 PM archivist: cannot remember
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: I was just looking at how to make opentrons without having to know any Python and also not use a *duino
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: the wireframe 3d preview is a matter of preference
01:31 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I know Python, but it's not always my favorite thing to use when I want to have confidence in code
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: I build all sorts of 3D printers that even combine deposition tech
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: all I know is that the radar screen is the dumbest thing I've ever seen
01:32 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: radar screen?
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: in the pic I posted earlier
01:32 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: the Pronterface thing?
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.plasticscribbler.com/media/k2/items/cache/9b2c4b44fb86522964124ed80d03c5e8_XL.jpg
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: sorry I didn't have a link with a Yoda head
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: I've shown it to people born in the 90's and even they agree
01:34 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: are you talking about the jogging user interface?
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: I was beginning to think it was a generational thing
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: yes
01:35 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I think it's relatively useful, the idea was to be able to switch between jog increments very quickly, but it can lead to misclicks as well
01:35 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: what would you suggest as an alternative interface?
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: axis, gmocappy, repetier etc
01:36 PM fdarling: https://www.repetier.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Repetier-Host-Preview.png
01:36 PM fdarling: it has a nearly identical interface, if you mouse over the buttons there are different increments it's just as apparent
01:37 PM fdarling: so are you saying that the Pronterface one takes up too much real estate basically?
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: not repetier navigation
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: yeah i know the minds behind it
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: lazy hacks
01:41 PM hammertown: I am looking for someone that might be familiar w the Intel D945GCLF2, I just bought this used pc to replace my other one that died. This PC is supposed to be able to get decent latency.....and I have manged to get around 15000, which is good, but was hoping that someone might know some more tricks to getting the latency lower.
01:42 PM hammertown: I'm using the latest image, isolcpu=1, hyperthreading off, audio off,
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: turn off all power management
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: speed stepping
01:43 PM fdarling: oh yeah, does anyone know if there is an option to enable motion blending, just not with rapids?
01:43 PM sadisticroot: That's pretty old school
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: hammertown: it also depends on BIOS
01:44 PM fdarling: so it doesn't "swoop" in and out of the material when doing 2.5D milling
01:44 PM hammertown: yeah have all the power management turned off
01:44 PM sadisticroot: Why use a decade old Atom board? It wasn't even that great when it came out X.X
01:44 PM hammertown: cheap and small
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: BIOS devs are like reprap devs, it's a giant kludge that magically works at times
01:45 PM hammertown: and known to get decent results....otherwise its a guessing game
01:46 PM sadisticroot: What Ram/etc are you using?
01:46 PM sadisticroot: And have you redone the heatsink paste? Its notoriously dodgy on some of those.
01:47 PM sadisticroot: Tends to dry out and lose conductivity over time, plus is usually crud to start
01:47 PM hammertown: 2gig.....ah nope, I will have to checkout the heatsink....
01:47 PM sadisticroot: I'd toss 4GB in, DDR2 is silly cheap
01:47 PM sadisticroot: More ram never hurts
01:48 PM hammertown: yeah for sure.....another good point.
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: archivist: was looking at controlling cartesian systems without the need for the operator to know any Python
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: http://docs.opentrons.com/ https://opentrons.com/robots
01:51 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: is that powered by LinuxCNC under the hood? Or are you just showing another motion control system scripted by Python?
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: closer to reprap
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: they use a rpi and/or some duino
01:52 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I really don't like how people use Arduinos for 3D printing and it makes it so far from real-time
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: fdarling: nothing to do with our earlier discussion
01:52 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: even the damn Smoothieboard (ARM MCU) lags when you try to tell it to pause *from it's own LCD interface!*
01:52 PM fdarling: and it's because of poorly designing the code
01:53 PM fdarling: theoretically Marlin (Arduino firmware) could look ahead in the serial buffer for pause commands and have them take effect immediately
01:53 PM fdarling: and Smoothieware has no excuse
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: you can't help them, they already know everything
01:54 PM fdarling: while I'd like to work on 3D printing firmwares, LinuxCNC ultimately is an existing solution for real time previewing/feedrate changing/pausing that works well, it's interface just usually kind of sucks for 3D printing
01:54 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: are you saying that the RepRap community is snobby? :-P
01:54 PM Loetmichel: fdarling: of course it is
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: arrogant and ignorant
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: like many of our leaders
01:55 PM fdarling: at the Nashville makerspace everyone uses GRBL on Arduinos for their CNCs/laser cutters
01:55 PM fdarling: I'd like to move them over to using LinuxCNC
01:55 PM fdarling: I know they won't go back :-P
01:56 PM fdarling: oh yeah, people use Raspberry Pis + Arduinos for motion control, but I saw a video online by a Russian (naturally) who implemented his own 3D printer software using Python + the Raspberry Pi's DMA for GPIO bit banging
01:56 PM fdarling: (and it worked!)
01:56 PM fdarling: no Arduino involved at all
01:57 PM fdarling: the thing is, the Raspberry Pi Zero W has the same GPIO header as the rest of the Raspberry Pis, so theoretically you could have a $10 CNC controller that was network enabled
01:58 PM fdarling: and if the Russian can generate the stepper motor waveforms in Python, it'll only work in C/C++ better
01:58 PM fdarling: I have a lot of ideas but at the moment, like so many people, not enough time to mess with them...
01:58 PM fdarling: hopefully in the near future I will though
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: and the world shortage of Yoda heads will be no more
01:59 PM fdarling: I have printed myself about 5x Yoda heads I'm not going to lie
01:59 PM fdarling: I am much more interested in laser cutting at the moment, because it seems that it's such an easy problem to solve but no one has bothered to
01:59 PM * sadisticroot is trying to figure out how to control funcky pneumatic linear actuators
02:00 PM fdarling: probably because it's mostly artists that care and they can't code :-P
02:00 PM sadisticroot: They work via differential pressure
02:00 PM sadisticroot: AKA two inlets, and the difference between the two decides where the slider goes
02:00 PM fdarling: for example GRBL relatively recently got extra laser cutter support where it would dynamically lower the power level of lasing to match the feedrate to get constant power delivery to the material, similar to spindle/feed synchronization
02:01 PM sadisticroot: They're super cool, but I can't figure a practical way to control them
02:01 PM fdarling: other people have hacked such things in by using a 3D printer style "extruder" axis synchronized with the motion, and every time that virtual axis emits a step it pulses the laser
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: how is it currently being done well? Let's do something else half assed.
02:04 PM sadisticroot: heh
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: I just hope that some kids got some inspiration out of it all
02:13 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: are you talking about the lasers?
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: all the wasted effort on repraps and associated code
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: Vice last night had a feature with some H.S. kids from Appalachia using FDM to make insoles for orthopedics
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: like watching the 3rd world only in the south
02:18 PM MrSunshine_: hmm, got belt drive on the X axis to get rid of a motor sticking 200mm out from the machine, tho ive got a strange "backlash" of +- 0.15mm on that axis .. but cant locate the backlash .. i guess it could be the belt stretching but no mater how much i tighten the belt the backlash is the same :/
02:26 PM DaViruz: try an indicator on the driven sprocket
02:26 PM DaViruz: to see if there is any backlash
02:43 PM archivist: MrSunshine_, can be machine flex as well
02:49 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I agree that the RapRap stuff is a mess, but moreso than their efforts being a waste, really they just need to be outdone :-P
02:50 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I would love to make a killer firmware for Smoothieware or even for Arduinos that just obsoletes everything else
02:50 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: and LinuxCNC is currently a really janky experience
02:50 PM archivist: MrSunshine_, when I changed a screw I could see "end effects" of the measurement where I am starting and ending, there is also stiction in the measuring device
02:51 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: it's not fully documented, the website doesn't appear to be up to date at all, the interface looks nearly as bad as Motif, the tool table editor is really ugly, etc
02:51 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: and while HAL is very powerful, they really need a better editor for it (which you said is being worked on)
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: much better starting point than from scratch or worse
02:52 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: yeah, well I'd love to develop on LinuxCNC and get it really user friendly and polished
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: the focus is machining
02:53 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: you don't know how much I want to use linuxcnc for 3d printing. marlin and all other sucks.
02:53 PM archivist: dont simplify too much because then you make the hard stuff difficult!
02:53 PM XXCoder: hell reprap hardware is haliously badly designed.
02:53 PM fdarling: XXCoder: agreed. both Marlin and Smoothieware have serious issues
02:54 PM fdarling: XXCoder: why is the hardware designed so badly?
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: we just take LCNC and modify it, had to keep RTAI going as well
02:54 PM XXCoder: I can't set machine zeros manually. noo it HAVE to be switch or whatever sensors
02:54 PM XXCoder: no support for INSTANT e-stop
02:54 PM fdarling: XXCoder: that's my biggest gripe, no instant pausing
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: designed by know-it-alls
02:54 PM fdarling: XXCoder: however, with Smoothieware you can in software change the endstop offsets
02:54 PM XXCoder: 3d printing is not using RT
02:55 PM fdarling: first of all Arduinos are limited in processing capabilities because they are 8-bit 16MHz MCUs, but even so the problems these firmwares have aren't the horsepower, it's the code design
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: some people don't value their time
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: maybe because nobody else values their time either
02:56 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: what are you talking about?
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: but I've heard people complain about the cost of Mesa boards and want to spend 100 hours making a similar board with a $10 fpga vs the $20 on the Mesa cards
02:59 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: the thing is, Mesa cards *are* expensive relative to RepRap hardware, but I can afford them and I like Peter Wallace's tech support ;-)
02:59 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: the thing is, it's true that you could theoretically get almost the same level of functionality for a fraction of the price using commodity microcontrollers
03:00 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: it just requires proper programming, but no one is willing to do that it would seem because it's very low level and tricky
03:00 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: I see so many people making "new" 3D printing motherboards and such, it's all the same garbage usually
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: but these idiots are not mass producing anything
03:01 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: you can get Arduino Mega 2560 + RAMPS + drivers + GLCD for like $35 shipped on eBay
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: not even a reliable FDM printer
03:01 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: and yes, it's going to run janky Marlin, but with a different firmware it could at least be "stable"
03:02 PM fdarling: CaptHindsight: some of this has to do with the Chinese mass producing things for a fraction of the DigiKey BOM cost, it's nuts how they can do that...
03:02 PM XXCoder: fdm is diffult to do, people is still figuring it out. machining is very old compared to printing
03:03 PM XXCoder: hell lathe itself is hundreds of years old, meven thousand maybe
03:04 PM fdarling: with FDM there are so many variables -- humidity, bed temperature, bed stickiness, extruder temperature, diameter of filament, purity of filament, speed, geometry of what is being printed, ambient air temperature...
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: nah, just askem
03:05 PM XXCoder: air motion around printer also, I caused print to fail when I walked by it lol
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: everything should just be made from PLA, problem solved :)
03:05 PM XXCoder: my room was pretty darn cold and walking by was enough to pop part off bed.
03:05 PM fdarling: the frustrating thing is that Stratasys has a patent on a temperature controlled environment inside the printer, crazy...
03:06 PM fdarling: so anyone else doing it has to act like the enclosure is there for some other reason, and you have to add your own temperature controller if you want :-P
03:07 PM XXCoder: fdarling: someone need to invent air heater system that can use PID
03:07 PM XXCoder: and can place sensor anywhere
03:07 PM XXCoder: boom, instant kit for heated enclosure
03:07 PM fdarling: XXCoder: people already do that
03:07 PM fdarling: XXCoder: they just can't legally ship them that way
03:07 PM XXCoder: not in neat ready to use package
03:07 PM XXCoder: no, im not talking about heated enclosure, thats patented
03:08 PM XXCoder: no, im talking about air heater with pid sensor ;)
03:08 PM fdarling: XXCoder: you'd be treading on thin ice I'm sure ;-)
03:08 PM XXCoder: if people use it to make heated enclosure it'd be not on us ;)
03:08 PM fdarling: I am really interested in closed loop stepper motor control
03:09 PM fdarling: there are very few 3D printers using it, and when they do it's done entirely on the stepper motor end of things, no real feedback
03:09 PM XXCoder: not even my cnc router uses em
03:09 PM fdarling: yeah I know
03:09 PM sadisticroot: WHOOOO!
03:09 PM fdarling: I'd like to though! I am eventually going to set it up with my Mesa card
03:09 PM XXCoder: its been getting cheaper but still much more expensive than plain open steppers
03:10 PM sadisticroot: Finally made a good sale
03:10 PM fdarling: I of course have closed loop servo control on my Bridgeport mill
03:10 PM sadisticroot: And that means time to pull the trigger and convert one of these robots to LinuxCNC
03:10 PM XXCoder: heyy I remember there was kickstarter on adding feedback to any stepper. lemme find it.
03:10 PM XXCoder: sadisticroot: congats!
03:10 PM fdarling: XXCoder: for $23 a motor you can get those CUI capacitive encoders made in USA right off DigiKey
03:10 PM sadisticroot: What all will I need?
03:11 PM sadisticroot: Aside from a host computer, which I have plenty of.
03:11 PM XXCoder: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tropicallabs/mechaduino-powerful-open-source-industrial-servo-m
03:11 PM fdarling: XXCoder: however they require dual shafts on the motor. If you get those magnetic absolute encoders you can simply stick a magnet at the visible tip of the shaft on the flush side of the stepper motor
03:11 PM fdarling: XXCoder: yeah, Mechaduino is using the magnetic absolute encoder
03:12 PM fdarling: XXCoder: I have some blank Mechaduino PCBs and a box with the parts, I just never assembled it ;-)
03:13 PM XXCoder: only thing I wondered, does marlin or smoothware so on support em? seems waste to invent one and it cant be used
03:13 PM sadisticroot: I'm assuming I'll need some sort of controller board running a certain firmware, correct?
03:13 PM XXCoder: linuxcnc sure can, as long as use board that can use it
03:14 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1HIWAiMrfY
03:14 PM fdarling: the Mechaduino doesn't appear to be any different than a normal stepper motor, it does the closed loop stuff on it's end. If you want to run it in the more advanced modes (torque/velocity, etc) you will have to interface with it
03:14 PM XXCoder: interesting
03:14 PM fdarling: the firmware is open source so I believe you can make it act over SPI, UART, whatever
03:15 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_3JvYrWOZU
03:15 PM sadisticroot: IS there any board in particular you guys recommend?
03:15 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: for doing what now?
03:16 PM sadisticroot: Running LinuxCNC
03:16 PM XXCoder: dunno, for cnc stuff I use BOB and tb6650s, since my cnc is low end
03:16 PM sadisticroot: I'm going to convert one of these robots
03:16 PM sadisticroot: BOB?
03:17 PM XXCoder: breakout board
03:18 PM sadisticroot: I'll be using Geckodrive G320X controllers for the motors
03:18 PM sadisticroot: And they handle the servo feedback, so all I need is step/dir
03:18 PM sadisticroot: Plus reading endstops, etc
03:19 PM sadisticroot: Oh, and PWM for the 1.5kW spindle and controller
03:21 PM sadisticroot: Which BOB do you use?
03:22 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: I have a CNC6040Z router from China, and it came iwth a TB6650 based 3 axis board + a expansion board for a 4th axis
03:22 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: you can get the boards on AliExpress for $35 + shippimg so it's around $60 shipped via DHL
03:23 PM XXCoder: sadisticroot: cheap one. chinese tend to not brand stuff heh
03:23 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: it seems to have opto-isolation for most of the board, I am actually going to reverse engineer this to verify they isolate everything because I don't want my high voltage CO2 laser cutter to kill my computer :-P
03:23 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: but they definitely isolate the step/dir signals and the limit switches and the PWM and such
03:24 PM fdarling: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Mouse-over-image-to-zoom-JP-3163B-Stepper-Motor-Driver-TB6560-3-axis-for-CNC/608523_32638080028.html
03:25 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: that can handle NEMA 23 motors no problem, it runs my router quite well!
03:26 PM sadisticroot: This machine uses large servos
03:27 PM sadisticroot: I'll be using Geckodrive modules
03:27 PM sadisticroot: Would something like this work: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Breakout-Board-Stepper-Driver/dp/B0093Y897A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1505591631&sr=8-3&keywords=cnc+breakout+board
03:27 PM XXCoder: looks like no opticoupers which is good if you need speed but no protection
03:28 PM XXCoder: no pwm
03:28 PM XXCoder: unless you oplan to use seperate pwm board
03:32 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: you said you are using servos?
03:37 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: do you mean feedback, in the sense that you'll have to be reading encoders and giving some speed signals to the servo?
03:39 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: if you are using Gecko stepper drivers, they most likely have isolation on their inputs already. You can probably directly use a DB25 breakout board and wire to them. As far as limit switches go, you'll probably want isolation for them or you risk hurting your parallel port
03:41 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: that Amazon link you gave, it should work but they don't isolate the inputs very well and it requires a male-to-male USB cable (so stupid) to provide 5V power to the board
03:43 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: I would recommend simply using a DB25 breakout that has nothing else on it, wire to your Gecko drives that way, and then take care of the isolated limit switches and isolated PWM output on your own on a protoboard. Then you know exactly how everything works together
03:51 PM XXCoder: do not do dead buy solder though ;)
03:55 PM sadisticroot: What about Arduino?
03:56 PM sadisticroot: Just load it up with GRBL for instance?
03:56 PM XXCoder: *do not dead bug solder*
03:56 PM XXCoder: +do
03:56 PM sadisticroot: Heh, that's not an issue
03:57 PM XXCoder: lol
04:03 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: why not?
04:03 PM Loetmichel: dead bug is all you can do with veroboard and BGAs ;)
04:03 PM XXCoder: lol
04:06 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: I would recommend LinuxCNC over an Arduino running your CNC router, hands down
04:06 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: for one thing, GRBL will require a computer to feed it G-code over a USB-to-serial (built into the Arduino)
04:07 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: so you're going to need a computer hooked to it anyways, so might as well directly use that computer to drive the CNC and have much more real time control over it
04:07 PM sadisticroot: I had misunderstood exactly how it works
04:07 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: there are setups where people use 3D printing type firmware and SD cards, but I don't recommend that for machining, you need to change things on the fly too often...
04:07 PM sadisticroot: Basically LinuxCNC uses a parallel or USB breakout to drive the motors/etc
04:08 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: Mach3 supports some USB breakouts like SmoothStepper, but LinuxCNC intentionally never supported them because they lack real time guarantees (apparently)
04:08 PM sadisticroot: Ahh
04:08 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: personally I think LinuxCNC devs were being stubborn ;-) one thing is a fact though, the SmoothStepper people moved to real time ethernet to connect to their boards instead of USB
04:09 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: but unless you are doing very high speed stepping, the parallel port is usually fine
04:09 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: and if you don't have a parallel port, you can get a PCI or PCI Express card online for cheap. There are also the Mesa cards you can get, as well as the Mesa ethernet cards
04:10 PM sadisticroot: I had been planning to use a laptop, but I guess that's a no go
04:10 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: the mesa cards give you the advantage of not having to be so real-time on the computer end of things, because it offloads the signal generation
04:10 PM sadisticroot: No big deal though
04:10 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: a laptop isn't necessarily a no-go, but realistically they have issues because of power saving stuff that interferes with timing consistency at the low level
04:11 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: I suspect if you had a laptop with a parallel port and disabled the power saving stuff, it might work well
04:11 PM sadisticroot: That I can deal with, I use Dells that are specifically designed for Linux support
04:11 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: your mileage may vary situation ;-) it should be easy enough to test though!
04:11 PM sadisticroot: And can get the docking station that has parallel
04:11 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: with the real time Ethernet setups, it dedicates an ethernet port exclusively for communicating with the remote FPGA breakout board
04:11 PM sadisticroot: But I'll probably just use a simple i5 desktop
04:12 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: ethernet can obviously move a lot of data per second, but more importantly the theoretical latency is extremely low
04:12 PM sadisticroot: Yeah, I want to keep it cheap though heh
04:12 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: and if it's a point to point connection between the breakout and the computer, there is nothing to interfere with the packets
04:12 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: so it uses it as a low latency bidirectional communication channel that also has high bandwidth
04:12 PM sadisticroot: Since I won't be reading the encoders speed shouldn't be a horrible problem
04:12 PM MarcelineVQ: cheapness: check the Internal I/O Connectors listing for your mobo, you proably have serial and parallel avaialble to you and just need to buy a connector
04:13 PM fdarling: sadisticroot: I would just figure out a cheap way of getting a hold of a computer with a parallel port and throw LinuxCNC on it
04:13 PM sadisticroot: Yeah, that's what I'll do
04:16 PM fdarling: oh yeah, something that really bugs me about the 3D preview in LinuxCNC, when you rotate the view it rotates it about the job center and not about the center of your current view position (or better yet, the point where you are clicking)
04:17 PM fdarling: I am used to CAD software like SolidWorks where middle click view rotation works as expected, in LinuxCNC it's very broken
04:24 PM Deejay: gn8
04:28 PM Loetmichel: fdarling: isnt it the machine center not the job center?
04:28 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: maybe it is, not sure
04:29 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: none of my machines have limit/homing switches so my machine coordinates are arbitrary :-P
04:30 PM Loetmichel: put on some
04:31 PM Loetmichel: it really pays off once someone decides to trip the GFCI or plug in a vaccum on the same circuit as your machine is ;)
04:31 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: believe me I know.... I intend to eventually put servos on my CNC router and do hard stop homing
04:31 PM sadisticroot: Limit switches are cheap
04:32 PM Loetmichel: had that at work a few weeks ago. and the co-worker plugged in the faulty soldering iron THREE times AFTER i told him to put it in the tras and take the other one.
04:32 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: I get away with it on my Bridgeport because I also have a DRO and can synchronize LinuxCNC to it
04:32 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: I have my entire CNC router on a cart with a beefy UPS, so I can actually unplug it and push it around and still have it run for like 45 minutes straight
04:32 PM gloops: limit switches £2 each
04:33 PM Loetmichel: fdarling: thats kinda like i had it on the last Copter-convention on the green...
04:33 PM fdarling: I have the limit switches, I just never bothered to tap holes, mount them, route them through the cable chain, drill holes in my control box so that they can plug in, wire them to the breakout board...
04:34 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12691&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- the camping supply was anything but reliable with 100++ copter freaks on the same supply... so i put a 1kVA UPS in the trunk ;)
04:41 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: my concern was also about losing travel due to the limit switches, I push the limits of my CNC router's working area sometimes
04:41 PM Loetmichel: fdarling: mount them sideway
04:41 PM Loetmichel: s
04:41 PM Loetmichel: so you can "drive over"
04:41 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: I have seen designs where the hard stop hits inside of the limit switches overtravel distance, so it is never "hurt" and you don't lose any working area
04:42 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7411
04:42 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7414
04:42 PM Loetmichel: if you know what i mean
04:42 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: if you mount it such that the switch is pressed by the something going "over" it rather than "up against" it, then there is also no risk of over-travel
04:43 PM Loetmichel: btw: these 50ct switches are surprisingly accurate
04:43 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=560
04:43 PM Loetmichel: less than 1/100mm of error
04:44 PM fdarling: Loetmichel: where can I buy them?
04:44 PM Loetmichel: i had mine from a surplus shop in germany
04:44 PM Loetmichel: but i think they are literally everywhere
04:46 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-ME-8108-Momentary-with-Roller-Arm-Limit-Switch-For-CNC-Mill-Laser-Plasma-GU/112357270208?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
04:47 PM gloops: i got those £2 apiece, cant go wrong at that price
04:47 PM Loetmichel: yeah, nice price. but a bit oversized for a small mill ;)
04:48 PM Loetmichel: fdarling: i dont use limit switches at all though
04:48 PM Loetmichel: just home switches
04:48 PM gloops: possible, theyre ok on my 4x2 router
04:48 PM Loetmichel: the moment the machine knows where it is its soft-limits work pretty well.
04:49 PM Loetmichel: feet?
04:50 PM Loetmichel: thats pretty big...
04:50 PM gloops: yeah
04:50 PM Loetmichel: made one in 1500mmm by 1020mm by 160mm once
04:50 PM gloops: i dont use half of it - monitor and mousemat is on it lol
04:50 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:51 PM Loetmichel: ... and helped build one that could do 1800*1200*200mm travel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:52 PM Loetmichel: but the one i use a tthe company is a simple china CNC 6040: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14136&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:52 PM gloops: that looks good, whats the plywood sandwiching?
04:53 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:53 PM Loetmichel: maaan was that clean once ;)
04:54 PM Loetmichel: gloops: thats called "siebdruckplatte" in german. its marine plywood with waterproof glue. and waterpoof top layer
04:54 PM Loetmichel: 21mm thick
04:55 PM gloops: oh yes, optical illusion - in one shot it looked like 2 plywood sheets sandwiching a thick foam type sheet
04:56 PM Loetmichel: you mean the "gantry sides" on the last one?
04:56 PM Loetmichel: thats just "boxing"
04:56 PM Loetmichel: to make it rigid
04:56 PM gloops: the gantry on this one http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:57 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053 <- thats how the bases look inside ;)
04:58 PM Loetmichel: xeah, made the sides of the gantry into boxes as the single sheet of plywood doesent worked out to be rigid enough on this one: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:58 PM gloops: thats all well made, did you use it much? / make any money with it?
04:58 PM Loetmichel: the one with the VFD on the z axis worked 4 years of 8 hours daily in a model plane shop
04:58 PM gloops: right i see now
04:59 PM gloops: model planes, good stuff
04:59 PM Loetmichel: and made parts out of aluminium, plywood, FR4 and carbon
05:00 PM gloops: i guess drones are going to kill that pastime off
05:00 PM Loetmichel: nope
05:01 PM Loetmichel: at least not in germany
05:01 PM Loetmichel: i already made the "kenntnisnachweis" thats now required here to fly certain kinds of drones or model planes
05:02 PM Loetmichel: if anything the model plane clubs in germany have a slight influx of people here that bought a drone , got hooked and now search for the "real thing"
05:03 PM gloops: oh youre still making the planes? i dont really know what the demand here is - a lot lot less than it was 30 years ago though
05:03 PM Loetmichel: i never made them commercially
05:04 PM Loetmichel: i only worked for a shop that dind
05:04 PM Loetmichel: did
05:04 PM Loetmichel: but i AM a model pilot
05:04 PM Loetmichel: so i have a few drones as well as a few winged models
05:05 PM Loetmichel: i even have a small helicopter (3ft main rotor)
05:06 PM * sadisticroot will be using his to mill aluminum and PCBs
05:06 PM sadisticroot: Its a 1000x400x200mm
05:06 PM sadisticroot: Decent size
05:06 PM Loetmichel: sadisticroot: my mill at home can do only 200 by 110 by 110mm travel ;)
05:07 PM sadisticroot: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f21/203075d1499831283-conversion-project-seiko-d-tran-xm-5000-cartesian-industrial-robots-img_20170306_171334.jpg
05:07 PM sadisticroot: One of my bots
05:07 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:07 PM gloops: i used to love the model shops, made a few decent balsa planes as a youth, - just the rubber powered ones
05:07 PM sadisticroot: I have 6 of them left, just sold one
05:07 PM sadisticroot: Plan to keep and retrofit 3 to LinuxCNC
05:08 PM sadisticroot: One is a SCARA, not sure whether I'll keep or sell that one
05:08 PM sadisticroot: Not as strong as the Cartesian, but damned cool
05:08 PM Loetmichel: needs a lot of room though
05:08 PM Loetmichel: thats what i like on the "moving gantry" design
05:09 PM sadisticroot: Eh, its not too bad
05:09 PM Loetmichel: you can pack a very large router/mill in a small space
05:09 PM Loetmichel: looking again: that IS basically a moving gantry
05:10 PM Loetmichel: just with less Z clearance behind the mill head/z axis
05:10 PM sadisticroot: That whole assembly moves up and down
05:11 PM sadisticroot: The entire white part
05:11 PM Loetmichel: so its an inverted head
05:11 PM sadisticroot: And then the toolhead rotates
05:11 PM sadisticroot: No, it points down
05:12 PM sadisticroot: There's just no tool attached in that pic
05:12 PM Loetmichel: like this one: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10528
05:12 PM sadisticroot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5fQTi1W868OTTg3ZDV3azEyYUU/view?usp=sharing
05:12 PM sadisticroot: That's the SCARA
05:13 PM sadisticroot: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f21/203077d1499831342-conversion-project-seiko-d-tran-xm-5000-cartesian-industrial-robots-img_20170307_133423.jpg
05:13 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg <- man that thing was scary fast (built it out of a medical dispenser for a co-worker)
05:13 PM sadisticroot: That's one of the axises. Crazy tough
05:13 PM XXCoder: ugh ashes again here
05:14 PM XXCoder: can't wait for rain tomorrow.
05:14 PM sadisticroot: Loetmichel: these are faster even than THAT
05:14 PM sadisticroot: X.X
05:14 PM sadisticroot: 1M/sec
05:15 PM Loetmichel: sadisticroot: i could go up to 32m/min in G0
05:16 PM Loetmichel: but above 15000mm/min it would lose one or the other step, so i decided to fix it at F15000 ;)
05:17 PM XXCoder: heh a61 does impress me on speed, its slower than that but then it moves entire tombstone at that speed
05:17 PM XXCoder: and it weighs hundreds of pounds
05:18 PM XXCoder: if rapid on z is short I can literally feel it few feet away from machine
05:18 PM XXCoder: techo pallet is much lighter and I dont feel anything but yeah
05:20 PM sadisticroot: One meter per SECOND
05:20 PM sadisticroot: hehe
05:20 PM sadisticroot: I'll probably have to bolt the table to the floor
05:22 PM XXCoder: The pumpkin spice is coming. https://i.imgur.com/0wzz9Qw.jpg
05:24 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder: what's up?
05:25 PM XXCoder: pumpkin spice.
05:25 PM XXCoder: not much, breally need to get busy though ugh
05:27 PM JT-Shop: what started out just putting my old canopy up for shelter from rain to the chickens turned out a full blown construction project... again!
05:27 PM JT-Shop: neighbor gave me a 10' x 10' frame but it's so light I decided to use 4x4 posts to hold the roof up
05:27 PM XXCoder: watch out for project creep!
05:28 PM JT-Shop: I decided I wanted a tin roof and it just kept growing from there... more post holes to dig lol
05:39 PM Tom_itx: whole chicken yard gonna be covered next?
05:39 PM JT-Shop: no, just 8' x 10' in front of the coop... an inner containment area
05:41 PM XXCoder: and new roof covering the canopy ;)
05:41 PM JT-Shop: I ditched the idea of the canopy, it is 12' x 16' and much too big so it will be 4x4 posts and 2x4 trusses
05:44 PM pfred1: JT-Shop what are you doing with a can of peas?
05:46 PM * JT-Shop wants some of what pfred1 has
05:47 PM Crom_: just ordered 2 test indicators, 2 ebay noga style arms with bases, 1 without, and 3 adjustable holder ends
05:47 PM XXCoder: not bad.
05:48 PM XXCoder: I have yet to figure how to use mine. lol cnc roputer is all alum bleh
05:48 PM JT-Shop: that does make it a challenge to find a magnet friendly spot lol
05:49 PM XXCoder: yeah.
05:49 PM pfred1: my machine is wood so same problem I just made a holder that slips in the spindle clamp
05:49 PM Crom_: 44991 HF mini mill, lathes 10" sheldon, 10" Logan at a friends shop
05:51 PM Crom_: giving my buddy my AXA tool post, and I'm going to use the BXA that will not work on his.
06:01 PM * sadisticroot debates what spindle to get
06:02 PM * JT-Shop says goodnight Gracie
06:02 PM XXCoder: https://files.airnowtech.org/airnow/today/cur_aqi_seattle_wa.jpg
06:03 PM XXCoder: ugh
06:03 PM XXCoder: im at spot between green, yellow and orange
06:03 PM * sadisticroot has air purifiers in his shop and house
06:03 PM sadisticroot: Helps a lot
06:04 PM XXCoder: I use true hepa filter in my room
06:04 PM XXCoder: but going outside sucks, I apparently has bad reaction to ash
06:05 PM pfred1: ash?
06:05 PM pfred1: having a bad ash day?
06:06 PM XXCoder: yeah forest fires all way down to calfornia and up to canada
06:06 PM pfred1: burn baby burn
06:06 PM XXCoder: funny considering we could use all that water at texas and fla
06:08 PM pfred1: well you can't have it
06:08 PM pfred1: we had a wet year this year too
06:09 PM XXCoder: here we are still in no rain summer
06:09 PM XXCoder: tomorrow should finally break it
06:09 PM XXCoder: then slowly increasing rains afterwards.
06:09 PM XXCoder: I miss old style washington summers :(
06:38 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: I'm waiting for the mistletoe blend
06:51 PM XXCoder: fancy
06:51 PM XXCoder: heh while cleaning stuff up I found old van paperwork from early 2014
06:52 PM XXCoder: it was really funny.
06:52 PM XXCoder: I still remember it too, I was driving home when van just decided to not work anymore.
06:52 PM XXCoder: so my van was towed to my home to drop me off, and he planned to drop van off at shop.
06:52 PM XXCoder: as it turns out, that truck got in accient
06:53 PM pfred1: what was wrong with the van?
06:53 PM XXCoder: so it was towed to towing shop, tranferred to another tow truck
06:53 PM XXCoder: and it was dropped off at shop, but front tires was broken and chanfered badly
06:53 PM XXCoder: that orginial tow truck was totaled
06:54 PM XXCoder: so shop told me that fuel pump was dead, and front joists are totally broken now
06:54 PM XXCoder: I fought with towing company a bit to pay for joists, and they paid. I paid for fuel pump
06:54 PM pfred1: yeah a dead fuel pump will strand you
06:54 PM XXCoder: yeah quests seem to have that flaw. quests are nearly unbreakable otherwise
06:55 PM pfred1: spark and fuel
06:55 PM pfred1: fuel injected?
06:55 PM XXCoder: 1996 spark plugs, dunno if injected but think so yeah
06:56 PM XXCoder: van was pretty badly abused by previous owner so it lasted 4 years which isnt too bad for junkyard escapee
06:56 PM pfred1: vehicles are depreciation machines
06:57 PM pfred1: put money in them and watch it go
06:57 PM XXCoder: yep I dont expect investment
06:57 PM XXCoder: houses is more and more depreciation also now
06:57 PM pfred1: you'd think by now we could do better
06:57 PM pfred1: it just seems to get worse to me though
06:57 PM SpeedEvil: House price inflation is depressingly insane.
06:58 PM XXCoder: though nice to pay fixed bill monthly not ever-increasing rent. washington rent is waaay damn high'
06:58 PM pfred1: I wish my house price would inflate
06:58 PM SpeedEvil: The notion of house as investment is so socially damaging.
06:58 PM XXCoder: speed yeah we getting house to avoid rent increases not investment
06:58 PM XXCoder: this house should be $3,000 monthly, we are paying little more than half that
06:59 PM pfred1: at least paying for property is creating equity
06:59 PM pfred1: rent you make landlords rich
07:01 PM XXCoder: yep
07:26 PM Crom_: screwed up a little... took 0.84mm (0.035") off the bottom, instead of cutting a should on each side.
07:26 PM Crom_: shoulder
07:37 PM pfred1: I am milling a board holder. I cut two blanks in case i screw one up
08:22 PM pfred1: I ordered one of those toy oscilloscopes and a freqnency generator just to play around with
08:23 PM pfred1: I'm in the mood to build some kits
08:23 PM XXCoder: yeah?
08:23 PM pfred1: the two items were like $20
08:23 PM XXCoder: one of those $20 ones?
08:23 PM XXCoder: ah yep
08:23 PM pfred1: they were both good prices
08:24 PM pfred1: on sale
08:24 PM pfred1: I got a DSO150 kit and a XR2206 is it?
08:25 PM pfred1: it all sounded like fun to me at the time
09:41 PM Cromaglious_: ugh... endmill walked...
09:41 PM Cromaglious_: 0.070" short on one side
09:47 PM Cromaglious_: so it's fixable
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: not fun
10:17 PM roycroft: i just made 40L of plum wine :)
10:17 PM roycroft: free plums
10:18 PM roycroft: $9 for sugar, and $4.50 for yeast
10:18 PM roycroft: about $1 for miscellaneous stuff like pectase, citric acid, etc.
10:18 PM * roycroft loves harvest time
10:20 PM pfred1: I was never a big wine fan
10:34 PM roycroft: i enjoy it, and so do most of my friends
10:34 PM roycroft: which is good, since i can pick fruit for free
10:38 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:38 PM XXCoder: I wonder if any fruit can be made into wine lol
10:40 PM roycroft: most can
10:41 PM XXCoder: pear?
10:41 PM roycroft: perry is delicious, but somewhat difficult to make well
10:48 PM XXCoder: interesting
10:48 PM XXCoder: honestly none of us are wine drinkers nor pear eater lol
10:48 PM pfred1: all you need is sugar
10:48 PM pfred1: yeast ain't too picky
10:48 PM roycroft: fermented sugar tastes horrible
10:49 PM pfred1: yeast always parties like it is 1999
10:49 PM pfred1: I was chatting with a guy the other day that says he can ferment it OK
10:49 PM roycroft: and yeast are somewhat particular
10:49 PM pfred1: what strain you use dictates alcohol level
10:49 PM roycroft: different strains can ferment different types of sugars
10:50 PM roycroft: to a degree, yes
10:50 PM pfred1: some last longer than others
10:50 PM roycroft: there's a lot more to choosing a yeast strain than alcohol tolerance and average attenuation
10:50 PM pfred1: we're acting like yeast on this planet
10:50 PM pfred1: eventually we're going to die in our own toxins
10:51 PM * roycroft has been making fermented beverages for over 35 years, and teaches brewing classes
10:51 PM XXCoder: so we are yeast prepping earth for galactus
10:51 PM pfred1: I live down the road from one of the best breweries in the USA
10:51 PM pfred1: I leave the fermenting to them
10:51 PM roycroft: there are hundreds of "one of the best breweries in the usa"
10:51 PM XXCoder: is that like "I can see russia from here" thing?
10:51 PM pfred1: yeah well I live near Dogfish head
10:52 PM roycroft: oh
10:52 PM pfred1: sam inventing microbrewing
10:52 PM roycroft: you live down the road from one of the most pretentious beweries in the usa :)
10:52 PM pfred1: some of their stuff ain't bad
10:52 PM roycroft: i like some of it
10:52 PM pfred1: some is though
10:52 PM pfred1: sam is a screwball
10:52 PM roycroft: i like the ideas behind most of it
10:53 PM roycroft: there's no way that dogfish head is on any real list of "best breweries in the us"
10:53 PM pfred1: I need ot try their new restaurant out
10:53 PM roycroft: same is fairly innovative
10:53 PM pfred1: you mad?
10:53 PM roycroft: sam
10:53 PM pfred1: I donno
10:54 PM roycroft: he's not very focused, though, imo
10:54 PM roycroft: if he would make fewer beers, and refine them more, he'd be a great brewer
10:54 PM pfred1: I was into beer snobbery long before it was a thing
10:55 PM roycroft: many of them are good, even really good, but i can't think of any i'd consider world-class
10:55 PM pfred1: when I was 14 I was drinnkign Michelob
10:55 PM pfred1: bud wasn'
10:55 PM pfred1: bud wasn't godo enough
10:55 PM roycroft: midas touch is one of the most interesting beers he makes
10:55 PM XXCoder: golden throat
10:55 PM roycroft: i keep planning on making somthing similar, and spending the time refining it more
10:55 PM XXCoder: golden poop too :P
10:55 PM pfred1: I was up at the brewery the day they first uncasked black and blue
10:56 PM pfred1: they got us so wasted I hat to put my hand over my glass
10:56 PM pfred1: that stuff is like $12 a bottle
10:57 PM pfred1: they came over with putchers of it
10:57 PM pfred1: pitchers
10:57 PM roycroft: you probably get a lot of dogfish head beers that we never see here on the west coast
10:57 PM pfred1: yeah I imagine
10:57 PM pfred1: being as i practically live next door to the place
10:57 PM roycroft: so perhaps there are some really good ones that i've never had nor heard of
10:58 PM pfred1: yeah I've had them out o state and they're not as good
10:58 PM roycroft: but my impression is that sam is a good, solid brewer
10:58 PM roycroft: not a world class brewer
10:58 PM pfred1: you'd think it would travel better but it doesn't
10:58 PM roycroft: and that's not a put-down
10:58 PM pfred1: he's got the setup up there
10:59 PM pfred1: he dumps tons of cash into the brewry
10:59 PM roycroft: his tv show was an utter fail
10:59 PM pfred1: I never watched it
10:59 PM roycroft: it was painful to watch, which is sad, because it could have been really good
10:59 PM roycroft: brewdogs is worse though
10:59 PM roycroft: those lads just annoy me :)
10:59 PM pfred1: they're very professional up at the brewery now compared to how they used to be
10:59 PM roycroft: but i can't listen to any of the brewing podcasts either
11:00 PM roycroft: it seems that brewers who do podcasts/tv shows think they have to be arrogant jerks
11:00 PM pfred1: sam has done rather well for himself
11:00 PM roycroft: sam suffers from that syndrome the least of any i'e seen/heard, i must say
11:00 PM pfred1: he basically owns the whole town
11:01 PM roycroft: he comes off as a pretty down-to-earth guy
11:01 PM pfred1: I donno he seems liek a flake to me
11:01 PM roycroft: atypical of media star brewers
11:01 PM roycroft: i don't know him personally
11:02 PM pfred1: but he worked hard to build what he has
11:02 PM roycroft: but my impression is not that he's a flake
11:02 PM roycroft: but that he gets bored easily and likes to move on to new things before perfecting what he's currently doing
11:02 PM pfred1: that's what made him a success he tries a lot of things
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://techxplore.com/news/2017-09-burger-robots.html
11:03 PM roycroft: anyway
11:03 PM pfred1: he probably thinks he still hasn't done the best thing he'll ever do too
11:03 PM roycroft: there are a bunch of good microbreweries in eugene
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: better start on the double cheese with bacon G-code
11:03 PM roycroft: i don't brew because it's hard to get good beer
11:03 PM roycroft: i brew because i enjoy it
11:04 PM pfred1: all the west coast stuff tastes like sucking on pine needles to me
11:04 PM pfred1: like sierra pine needles
11:04 PM roycroft: i rarely use local hops
11:04 PM pfred1: or whatever that stuff is called
11:04 PM roycroft: and i'm not a big fan of hoppy beers generally
11:04 PM pfred1: oh I like the hops
11:04 PM roycroft: i got burned out on northwest ipas in the '80s
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: I avoid bitter beers in general
11:04 PM pfred1: I never liked them too raw
11:04 PM roycroft: i brew one every couple years or so so that they don't kick me out of oregon
11:05 PM roycroft: but i rarely will buy one unless it's a choice between bud and local ipa
11:05 PM roycroft: as in a restaurant
11:05 PM pfred1: I love dogfishes IPAs
11:05 PM CaptHindsight: bud, ipa or a beer? :)
11:05 PM roycroft: the 60 minute is rather pedestrian
11:05 PM pfred1: if I was stuck on a desert island with them I wouldn't have fires at night
11:06 PM pfred1: that's what makes it great
11:06 PM roycroft: the 90 minute is good, but nowhere near as good as sam tries to hy'e it
11:06 PM pfred1: it is a plain old OK beer
11:06 PM roycroft: hype
11:06 PM pfred1: yeah 90s don't travel
11:06 PM pfred1: not like they should
11:06 PM roycroft: that's bullshit
11:06 PM pfred1: ah I'm the one here remember?
11:06 PM roycroft: "beer doesn't travel well" is urban legend at est
11:06 PM roycroft: best
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMIkWyiJp0k
11:06 PM pfred1: I've had it too fresh at the brewery
11:07 PM roycroft: 100 years ago beer did not travel well
11:07 PM pfred1: then it is like raw
11:07 PM roycroft: it travels fine now
11:07 PM pfred1: I've had 90s out of state they're not as good
11:07 PM roycroft: often beer for the bottling line is made differently than beer from the cask
11:07 PM pfred1: not as good as they are here
11:08 PM roycroft: which helps perpetuate the myth that it "doesn't travel well"
11:08 PM pfred1: nah it all comes out of the same barrel here
11:08 PM pfred1: tank whatever those things are
11:08 PM pfred1: tank farm
11:08 PM * roycroft defers to the beer expert and accepts that he has no idea what he's talking about
11:09 PM pfred1: have you been to the dogfish brewery?
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: any sours in the works?
11:09 PM pfred1: I used ot go regularly
11:09 PM roycroft: none, capthindsight
11:09 PM XXCoder: never drank any, ever. lol
11:10 PM pfred1: they keg and bottle the same beer
11:10 PM roycroft: i got behind on brewing when my control panel burned up a year ago, and haven't caught up since i finished rebuilding it
11:10 PM roycroft: brewing season is just beginning
11:10 PM roycroft: when i finish fermenting this plum wine, it will be time to start making beer
11:10 PM roycroft: probably about the 1st of october
11:11 PM roycroft: i'm probably going to start some flanders red next spring
11:11 PM roycroft: but that's a 3 year process
11:11 PM roycroft: two years of fermenting/bulk conditioning/blending, and a year in the bottles
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: this place has been making some really nice sours https://www.likemindsbrewing.com/s/Menu-6-1.pdf
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.likemindsbrewing.com/
11:12 PM pfred1: they have vintage 120 IPA at the bar downtown
11:12 PM pfred1: stuff is like over $20 a bottle
11:13 PM roycroft: some of those look potentially interesting, capthindsight
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: put me down for some :)
11:13 PM evilroot: Wooo, just ordered my Geckodrive G320X modules and BOB for LinuxCNC!
11:14 PM roycroft: talk to me about it again in late 2020 :)
11:14 PM evilroot: Found an eBay listing for three that I got for $280
11:14 PM Jymmm: evilroot: you got the $200 discount code too?! aweseome!
11:14 PM * evilroot scrolls up
11:14 PM evilroot: Ooooh
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: the bad part is that most people don't know about sours around here, so they might close the bar section and just bottle
11:14 PM evilroot: Jymmm: They lowered the price lately
11:14 PM evilroot: Retail they're $129 now
11:14 PM roycroft: sours are the new ipa
11:15 PM Jymmm: evilroot: ah
11:15 PM evilroot: Lambic you mean?
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: not in these here parts
11:15 PM roycroft: sours, generally
11:15 PM evilroot: Lambic are the beer snob's beer
11:15 PM roycroft: lambic is lambic
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: it's still IPA contry
11:15 PM * evilroot scrolls up
11:15 PM roycroft: lindemann's is barely lambic :)
11:15 PM evilroot: Ahh, yes, the damned IPA
11:15 PM evilroot: Who can put more fricking hops in a bottle
11:16 PM pfred1: who can put more in and have it taste good?
11:16 PM roycroft: when you take a nice lambic and add tons of sugary fruit to it it's not very recongnisable any more
11:16 PM evilroot: I've had the Dogfish Head 60. 90, and 120 (which is actually illegal in my state)
11:16 PM evilroot: Don't like them
11:16 PM * roycroft reiterates that he got burned out on northwest ipas in the '80s
11:16 PM pfred1: 120 is not like it used to be
11:16 PM evilroot: I prefer malty beer
11:16 PM roycroft: that said
11:16 PM evilroot: So I've heard, I had it a long time back at the brewery
11:16 PM roycroft: i still teach with them
11:17 PM roycroft: the malt bill is very simple
11:17 PM * evilroot has had the "Best Beer in the World"
11:17 PM roycroft: and all the late hops mask brewhouse flaws really well
11:17 PM roycroft: so for a beginning brewer, an ipa is the perfect beer to make
11:17 PM evilroot: The rarest, most expensive, most exclusive, and most prized of ALL BEERS
11:17 PM XXCoder: is cheap beer
11:18 PM pfred1: evilroot a sam adams 2000?
11:18 PM roycroft: what? westvleteren 12?
11:18 PM evilroot: YES
11:18 PM roycroft: yeah, that's pretty good
11:18 PM roycroft: one of the best
11:18 PM roycroft: and that reminds me
11:18 PM evilroot: They only sold it retail once, ever
11:18 PM roycroft: i haven't had this year's bottle yet :)
11:18 PM roycroft: yes
11:18 PM roycroft: i still have some of that
11:18 PM roycroft: i drink one bottle every august
11:18 PM XXCoder: whats they do with bottles?
11:18 PM evilroot: Whoo, a fellow conniseur
11:19 PM roycroft: i make a pretty decent belgian quad
11:19 PM roycroft: it's not westy 12
11:19 PM roycroft: but it's a decent facimile
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westvleteren_Brewery
11:19 PM evilroot: Here you could only buy a single pack, and only at one store
11:19 PM roycroft: we were limited to 2
11:19 PM evilroot: So 6 bottles was the limit
11:19 PM roycroft: but there was so much demand, i only bought one
11:19 PM XXCoder: do you sub monthly or yearly and they send one a year or monthly?
11:19 PM roycroft: i didn't want to hoarde
11:19 PM XXCoder: because if no retail how do they sell em?
11:19 PM evilroot: I had to camp out a few hours and still almost missed out
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: Sales are limited to one order every 60 days per person per license plate and phone number
11:20 PM roycroft: i bought a 6 pack the one time they sold it retail
11:20 PM roycroft: and i waited a year to drink the first bottle
11:20 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: try 6 months
11:20 PM roycroft: and now drink one/year
11:20 PM XXCoder: interesting
11:20 PM evilroot: And you have to actually go to the monestary in Belgium
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: I send my beer servant
11:20 PM roycroft: mine have a date stamp of august 2014
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: to stand in line
11:20 PM evilroot: Plus its only one of the several beers the Trappist monks make
11:20 PM roycroft: or 2013, i forget
11:21 PM roycroft: the one-time sale was in december of that year
11:21 PM roycroft: and westy 12 is best when aged at least a year
11:21 PM evilroot: You have to keep calling the line for usually 3 weeks before a monk finally picks up
11:21 PM roycroft: so i tried my first bottle the following august
11:21 PM evilroot: And they will tell you what beer and how much you can buy
11:21 PM roycroft: there's a pub right across the street from the monestary that have it on tap
11:21 PM evilroot: If you don't like it, God be with you
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: heh
11:21 PM evilroot: Seriously
11:21 PM roycroft: so you can go drink it any day you want to if you are willing to go to belgium
11:22 PM pfred1: I've had belgian abby ales
11:22 PM CaptHindsight: one of the reasons to visit
11:22 PM pfred1: affligm and chimay
11:22 PM evilroot: pfred1: this is the king of all Abbey Ales
11:22 PM roycroft: i like the westmalle quad a lot too
11:22 PM roycroft: it's similar to westy 12
11:22 PM evilroot: I opened two bottles with a few of my friends that loved beer
11:22 PM roycroft: which is not surprising, since westvlateren do not bank their own yeast
11:22 PM roycroft: they buy yeast from westmalle
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: somebody needs to come up with something similar here
11:23 PM evilroot: And made a meal to fit the beer, first time ever
11:23 PM roycroft: the yeast is what makes the beer, in most cases
11:23 PM pfred1: I thought they used wild yeast?
11:23 PM roycroft: and that is especially the case with belgian yeasts
11:23 PM roycroft: no
11:23 PM evilroot: A cheese spread, dried fruits and nuts, and lamb meatballs with apricot reduction
11:23 PM roycroft: gueze and lambic are wild fermented
11:23 PM pfred1: they just haven't cleaned those places in a thousand years
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: gueze = gose
11:23 PM roycroft: but other belgian ales use cultured yeast
11:23 PM roycroft: no
11:23 PM evilroot: Another two bottles I opened on Christmas with my father and brother
11:24 PM roycroft: gose is a german ale that is salty
11:24 PM pfred1: sam keeps his yeast in a vault now
11:24 PM evilroot: Given my father is German and really knows his beer, he freaked out
11:24 PM roycroft: gueze is the base of lambic
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: ah
11:24 PM roycroft: blended gueze is lambic
11:24 PM evilroot: One I gave as a present to my best friend, who still has it
11:24 PM roycroft: which may or may not have fruit added to it
11:24 PM pfred1: I was on a german beer kick for a long time
11:24 PM evilroot: And one I gave to the brewmaster at my favorite local brewery
11:24 PM pfred1: hacker pschoor kumbacher
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: has anyone captures and sequenced the DNA of these yeasts?
11:25 PM roycroft: yes
11:25 PM evilroot: I wasn't allowed to pay for my drinks there for like a month
11:25 PM roycroft: and actually, something really interesting has just been discovered
11:25 PM evilroot: It was pretty awesome
11:25 PM pfred1: eku kulminator 28
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: like syrup
11:26 PM roycroft: the yeast used for belgian ales and bavarian hefeweizen is not a strain of saccharomyces cerevisae (typical beer brewing yeast), but a completely different species in a different genus
11:26 PM evilroot: Usually though I drink liquor or wine
11:26 PM pfred1: wine gets me so hung over
11:27 PM roycroft: gene sequencing has turned taxonomy of microorganisms upside down
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: they did that to throw us off :)
11:27 PM pfred1: worst hang overs I've ever had I got drinking wine
11:27 PM roycroft: the tannins in red wine contribute to hangovers
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: GMO yeasts
11:27 PM pfred1: walk around like my head is a balloon for 3 days
11:28 PM roycroft: white wine doesn't have anything in it that would contribute to a hangover, other than ease of overconsumption
11:28 PM pfred1: I heard it is the sulphates
11:28 PM pfred1: yeah if i drink wine i like the white
11:28 PM roycroft: if there are sulphates
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: if you drink scotch in large quantities then red wine doesn't bother you much
11:29 PM roycroft: the sulphates one puts in wine dissipate as sulphur dioxide within 24 hours
11:29 PM pfred1: life's too short to drink wine though
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: so I've heard
11:29 PM roycroft: there will only be sulphates in wine if they're added at bottling
11:30 PM roycroft: i enjoy a wee dram upon occasion
11:30 PM roycroft: but i don't drink scotch, nor anything else, in excess
11:30 PM pfred1: I hav
11:30 PM roycroft: dehyration is one of the biggest contributors of a hangover
11:30 PM pfred1: I like whiskey
11:30 PM pfred1: yeah i know about that
11:30 PM roycroft: drink lots of water while drinking
11:31 PM * roycroft prefers whisky to whiskey
11:31 PM pfred1: I'm usually too loaded to remember to hav water though
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: well excess depends on the definition
11:31 PM roycroft: i don't drink to where it's difficult to function
11:31 PM roycroft: and i don't get hangovers
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, never quite understood that
11:32 PM roycroft: i don't drink to get drunk
11:32 PM pfred1: a lot of times i just plan poorly
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: drink till you're sick
11:32 PM roycroft: i drink because i enjoy the experience
11:32 PM pfred1: I like being rip roaring drunk
11:32 PM roycroft: i like the taste of a good fermented beverage
11:33 PM pfred1: my motto is after the third shot they all taste the same anyways
11:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-09-immune-linked-alcohol-behaviour.html
11:34 PM pfred1: which isn't strictly true but in general that's the outcome
11:34 PM roycroft: the way i see it, altering one's state of consciousness isn't very worthwhile if one doesn't remember one's consciousness haveing been altered
11:34 PM pfred1: it is a vacation from one's self though
11:35 PM * roycroft would rather the president got a hangover so he could have a vacation from him
11:35 PM roycroft: i don't need a vacation from myself
11:36 PM pfred1: you sound like you do to me
11:36 PM * evilroot doesn't get hung over for some reason
11:36 PM roycroft: perhaps you don't drink enough, evilroot
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-09-protein-links-alcohol-abuse-brain.html#nRlv
11:36 PM pfred1: enough of the wrong stuff
11:36 PM evilroot: I can put down a 750mL bottle of vodka easily
11:36 PM pfred1: vodka is funny stuff
11:37 PM evilroot: Also no matter how much I drink I never forget anything
11:37 PM roycroft: i use vodka to make herbal tinctures
11:37 PM pfred1: oh I've lost time
11:37 PM roycroft: but i don't really drink it much
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: wish there was more research into the neurology
11:37 PM evilroot: I general stop when I'm feeling tpsy
11:37 PM roycroft: scotch is mostly what i drink for hard liquor
11:37 PM evilroot: But that takes a LOT
11:38 PM evilroot: Kind of sucks really
11:38 PM roycroft: and i'll have a wee dram once/week or so
11:38 PM evilroot: Like I literally can't get drunk on beer. I'll be full first
11:38 PM pfred1: I get drunk on beer
11:39 PM roycroft: westy 12 is a bit over 10% abv
11:39 PM evilroot: Heh, once I was at a convention and scared the hell out of a bartender
11:39 PM roycroft: it's the kind of beer that could get one drunk
11:39 PM pfred1: yeah 3 or 4 of those would do it for me
11:39 PM roycroft: it's thick and heavy, but no alcohol heat
11:39 PM roycroft: so easy to drink
11:40 PM evilroot: Got dumped by phone. Sat at the bar and ordered a beer and a double shot of 151 rum
11:40 PM pfred1: I hate trying to drink syrupy beer
11:40 PM evilroot: He just looked at me like I was nuts
11:40 PM evilroot: I pound the rum and chug the beer. Asked for another
11:40 PM pfred1: 151 packs a punch
11:40 PM evilroot: He made me wait 15 minutes. Still ordered another
11:41 PM evilroot: Wouldn't give me a third round X.X
11:41 PM pfred1: we used to drink it ice skating and we called it jet fuel
11:41 PM evilroot: Probably a good thing
11:41 PM evilroot: I'm annoyed we can't buy real Everclear in this state any more
11:41 PM pfred1: it made falling down hurt a lot less then
11:42 PM evilroot: I used it to make Lemoncello and Gin
11:42 PM pfred1: I've had red horse grain
11:42 PM pfred1: 190 proof
11:42 PM evilroot: I've had Tennesse Moonshine
11:42 PM pfred1: it was like kicking back paint thinner
11:42 PM evilroot: Very close to pure alcohol
11:42 PM evilroot: You had to chase it or it could really hurt you
11:43 PM pfred1: 190 is like who cares?
11:43 PM pfred1: that last 5% ain't gonna save you
11:43 PM evilroot: 190 is the highest you can safely consume if I remember right
11:43 PM pfred1: it didn't feel too safe going down
11:43 PM evilroot: lol
11:43 PM pfred1: my throat!
11:44 PM pfred1: I guess it kills whatever ails you?
11:44 PM evilroot: Oddly enough the TN stuff didn't burn as much as I expected
11:44 PM evilroot: Apparently they filter it through commercial grade filters
11:44 PM pfred1: one time I was driving down south and I saw a billboard for moonshine
11:44 PM pfred1: it said made the old fashioned way
11:45 PM pfred1: I was thinking i thought that was illegal?
11:45 PM pfred1: they got billboards up!
11:45 PM evilroot: Nope, heh
11:45 PM evilroot: Long as you have the tax stamp
11:45 PM pfred1: I guess so
11:45 PM evilroot: Or license
11:45 PM pfred1: I should have took a picture of that thjing it was hilarious
11:45 PM evilroot: I mean moonshine is just vodka
11:45 PM evilroot: Neutral spirits
11:46 PM evilroot: Made from grain
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: you're not even allowed to distill an once without a license
11:46 PM pfred1: not as good as the road sign before a tunnel that said remove sunglasses though
11:46 PM roycroft: 190 proof is the highest percentage alchol that can be distilled
11:46 PM roycroft: alcohol
11:46 PM roycroft: 100% ethanol is very difficult to make, and absorbs water rapidly
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: wasn't there a tiny still on poopstarter?
11:46 PM pfred1: like come on Elvis don't try driving through the tunnel with your shades on
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: molecular sieve
11:47 PM evilroot: You can get a "fuel alcohol permit"
11:47 PM pfred1: yup boze is a dessicant
11:47 PM roycroft: if you take some 100% ethanol and leave it open to the air it will soon absorb 5% water
11:47 PM roycroft: even if the ambient humidity is low
11:47 PM pfred1: which is why you get hung over it dries your brain out
11:47 PM evilroot: With that its legal to have a still, all the equipment, etc etc
11:48 PM roycroft: it's very hygroscopic
11:48 PM evilroot: Short of someone ATF actually SEEING you drink it its impossible to get caught
11:48 PM pfred1: you can't distill for private consumption?
11:48 PM evilroot: Nope
11:48 PM roycroft: every state has its own fermenting/distilling regulations as well as the federal ones
11:48 PM pfred1: hmmm
11:48 PM pfred1: isn't that like cooking?
11:48 PM roycroft: home distilling for consumption is only legal in new zealand
11:48 PM pfred1: wow
11:49 PM pfred1: screw them
11:49 PM pfred1: I can see if you're selling it
11:49 PM roycroft: and freezing is considered a form of distillation
11:49 PM pfred1: or even distributing it
11:49 PM roycroft: so it's illegal to even make eisbier in the us
11:49 PM evilroot: Federal law says it is illegal to have a still of ANY size for producing liquor to drink
11:49 PM roycroft: unless one is a licensed distiller
11:49 PM evilroot: roycroft: which can't be given to an individual
11:49 PM pfred1: I can't see how that is Constitutional
11:50 PM evilroot: Constitution doesn't say crap about booze other than prohibition
11:50 PM pfred1: it is not like I'm driving my still on their roads
11:50 PM pfred1: so what business is it of theirs?
11:50 PM pfred1: on what grounds do they base the law?
11:50 PM evilroot: But again that being said you can get a "fuel alcohol permit"
11:51 PM pfred1: I don't see why I need a permit
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: it's a direct tax
11:51 PM evilroot: Which means you can have and use a still but promise nobody will drink it ;-)
11:51 PM pfred1: where do they get off regulating my property?
11:51 PM evilroot: The same way they get off charging property tax
11:51 PM pfred1: well that's different
11:51 PM evilroot: How so?
11:52 PM pfred1: they do things that increase the value of my property
11:52 PM pfred1: like have a road in front of it
11:52 PM tiwake: and mandatory social security
11:52 PM pfred1: keep commies oiut of the country
11:52 PM tiwake: and taxing short barrel rifles, and suppressors
11:52 PM evilroot: And that's paid for by taxes on income, property, and yes alcohol
11:53 PM evilroot: Also its a practical matter. Homemade liquor kills people, pure and simple
11:53 PM tiwake: wut
11:53 PM evilroot: Unless you know what you're doing
11:53 PM pfred1: I guess it is health and safety
11:53 PM evilroot: The first and last pulls off a still will make you blind or worse
11:53 PM tiwake: nobody should care about that though
11:53 PM pfred1: you have to dump the methanol
11:53 PM evilroot: Takes skill and experience to know the difference
11:54 PM pfred1: tailings
11:54 PM tiwake: a fractional distiller should function better overall, than what most people use for distilling alcohol
11:54 PM evilroot: I sure as fuck wouldn't want the same idiots doing homebrew to be making liquor with a cheapo Chinese still
11:54 PM pfred1: better some redneck solders it together?
11:55 PM evilroot: But again, plenty of people do it and as long as they're not retards you don't get caught
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: Missouri, which allows people to distill up to 200 gallons for personal use without a permit.
11:55 PM roycroft: so you think im an idiot, do you, evilroot?
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.denverpost.com/2014/05/16/meyer-why-cant-we-distill-in-our-homes/
11:55 PM pfred1: I could perform ritual sacrifice in my backyard and no one would be the wiser
11:55 PM pfred1: I actually got a meth lab back there now
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: In Colorado, it is illegal, but only a petty offense.
11:55 PM evilroot: Oh no, I'm just referring to a lot of people that don't know what they're doing heh
11:55 PM roycroft: even though i have won awards for my homebrew, and brew things much better than any commercial brewery can afford to produce
11:56 PM pfred1: at least that's what the former people were doing with it
11:56 PM XXCoder: wow an meth lab thats not in washington state?
11:56 PM evilroot: Definitely worded that wrong, sorry
11:56 PM XXCoder: for some reason this state is REALLY popular for meth production.
11:56 PM pfred1: yeah it has chemical stains on the floor and everything
11:56 PM roycroft: there are people who make crappy homebrew, for sure :)
11:56 PM pfred1: it is definitely a meth lab
11:56 PM roycroft: but some of us are pretty serious about it
11:56 PM evilroot: I've rarely had good homebrew
11:56 PM evilroot: But there have been some that were epic
11:57 PM pfred1: my meth lab http://i.imgur.com/cWXfC0n.jpg
11:57 PM evilroot: One buddy of mine aged his in small used whiskey casks
11:57 PM evilroot: pfred1: classy!
11:57 PM pfred1: tell me they weren't cooking crystal in that trailer
11:57 PM roycroft: http://zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/BrewDay2/
11:57 PM roycroft: there are some pictures of my brew system
11:57 PM evilroot: I thought my old pop-up camper was nice
11:57 PM roycroft: well, a slightly older version of it
11:58 PM pfred1: because there's barrel stands in the wood behind it
11:58 PM XXCoder: too many years exposed to weather, that trailer
11:58 PM roycroft: that should give you an idea of how serious i am about brewing
11:58 PM evilroot: . . . .
11:58 PM pfred1: it is an old job site shitter trailer gutted out
11:58 PM XXCoder: that looks professional-very highend hobby
11:58 PM roycroft: a fancy brew system does not good beer make - i'll be the first to say that
11:58 PM evilroot: Holy SHIT roycroft, my fricking FUSION REACTOR is less fancy than that
11:59 PM roycroft: and actually i've won my awards with a much simpler brew system :)
11:59 PM evilroot: Or was before I sold it
11:59 PM roycroft: i built that one because i'm getting older, and don't like lifting vessels full of hot, stickly beer wort
11:59 PM roycroft: i'd rather keep it all on one level and have pumps move the stuff around
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: pfred1: looks like they use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause