#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 13 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM tiwake: $19 for 3/8" endmills from maritool, TiAlN coated
12:03 AM Crom: nice... the 44991 will converted to cnc soon as I can. I have a NEMA24 for Z 3Nm
12:06 AM Crom: Soon as I get it it's getting the belt conversion. Already have the TTS collet and 2 ER16 TTS tools holders
12:16 AM Crom: I'll start collecting material to build a air tool changer
12:23 AM * Jymmm hands Crom a bucket of air for his collection, enjoy!
01:06 AM andypugh: Guess who is our of his normal timezone. I am in AZ for the next 3 weeks
01:29 AM Cromaglious_: switching Quassel core to a hardwired connection
01:30 AM Cromaglious_: so I won't have so many drops.
01:38 AM IchGucksLive: morniung from windy germany
01:39 AM andypugh: Goodnight from baking hot Arizona
01:40 AM andypugh: (Hot is good, hot is why we paid so much to get ourselves and the test cars here)
01:59 AM MrSunshine: hmmm screw pitch compesation, how is that measured? move like 10mm check how far its gone, note it in a file, move it another 10 ? is the error recorded just those 10mm at a time or is it the accumilated value over the full distance ?
02:00 AM archivist: iirc it is the error in position along the screw, so +- an amount at a position
02:01 AM archivist: there is a limit to number of entries in the table
02:02 AM MrSunshine: but if first 10mm has an error of 0.05mm i write that on the first line, then the 10 - 20mm has an error of 0.01mm i just write that on the next line ? the function is quite undocumented .. atleast in how the test is supposed to be conducted =)
02:04 AM IchGucksLive: MrSunshine: you may know what you got in hardware
02:05 AM IchGucksLive: then calculate
02:05 AM IchGucksLive: documentation http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/
02:08 AM Cromaglious_: nice Andy in AZ... to damn hot right now... I'm about 400 miles west of Andy probably..
02:13 AM archivist: MrSunshine, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/46193
02:20 AM archivist: MrSunshine, the actual format is listed at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:AXIS-section
02:26 AM MrSunshine: archivist, yes but still nowhere i find stated if its the interval im supposed to measure or if every single point has origin 0 on the screw
02:26 AM MrSunshine: is it 0 10, 10 20, 20 30 and the error only over those 10mm or is it error from 0 10, error from 0 20, error from 0 30 that is supposed to be recorded =)
02:28 AM archivist: its obvious from the last item it is 10,9.9,10.1 20,20.1,20.3 etc
02:28 AM archivist: triplets with direction
02:28 AM MrSunshine: so a 10mm stroke indicator could do it for me then =)
02:29 AM archivist: you need to measure the whole screw so no
02:30 AM MrSunshine: oh so it is from origin 0 then for each entry .. that sucks =)
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: MrSunshine: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Screw_Compensation
02:31 AM archivist: you cannot guess the entire screw from just 10mm
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: if you can get a glass scale use it to make a log file
02:32 AM Deejay: moin
02:32 AM MrSunshine: archivist, no but go 10mm, record value .. move the indicator, go 10mm etc
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: Deejay: sturm
02:32 AM archivist: MrSunshine, many chances of error :)
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: MrSunshine: there are digital r2s32 calibers for under 20dollar
02:33 AM MrSunshine: IchGucksLive, those only give at max like 180mm movement
02:33 AM MrSunshine: if you do not buy a huge one that can give like 500mm
02:33 AM IchGucksLive: better then a dial
02:34 AM MrSunshine: true
02:34 AM MrSunshine: less chances of errors =)
02:34 AM MrSunshine: 150 tests vs 10 tests
02:35 AM MrSunshine: oh well, its a later problem .. right now i need to get the double motor gantry going =)
02:37 AM archivist: not many bother with screw compensation
02:39 AM IchGucksLive: MrSunshine: the guntry shoudt not be that big problem
02:40 AM IchGucksLive: if hardware is good
02:40 AM IchGucksLive: till later
03:06 AM Longbow: hello :)
03:09 AM Longbow: I have an automatic tool changer whit an axis that I try to command with HAL commands
03:10 AM Longbow: I am successfull with halui.joint.jog commands BUT when I home the axis I am not able to jog it.
03:10 AM Longbow: I then UNhome the axis and the jog commands work again
03:10 AM Longbow: Is the jogging action dependant on the mode?
03:28 AM Longbow: Should be something with HALUI modes. when UNhomed it is in mode joint and manual. When Homed it is in modes manual and teleop
03:30 AM archivist: I seem to remember something either in the dev channel or mailing list
03:36 AM Longbow: Hmm it seems to work when axis are homed IF I reenter the halui joint mode.
03:36 AM Longbow: with "halcmd setp halui.mode.joint 1"
04:52 AM XXCoder: oob
05:21 AM jthornton: morning
05:21 AM XXCoder: hey
05:21 AM XXCoder: old fadal is retired for good now. its first machine I ran at current job
05:23 AM Valen: I wonder how many kilometers all the ways have racked up lol
05:24 AM XXCoder: dunno. its fadal 88, made in 1988
05:24 AM XXCoder: so probably enough to reach moon lol
05:24 AM XXCoder: 3 of workers have interest in it
05:24 AM XXCoder: there is also cell being retired
05:25 AM XXCoder: but nobody wants it and its going stright to scrap, its been on last legs last 2 years, and one mill died few months and computer has insane amunt of bad sectors
05:25 AM XXCoder: 1986 cell. old.
05:25 AM XXCoder: apparently will get another a61 to replace it
05:25 AM Valen: If only there was some way to replace the computer ;-P
05:25 AM XXCoder: Valen: I think software is locked to hard drive
05:25 AM Valen: I really do wonder, why all the embedded computers these days don't ship with RAID
05:26 AM XXCoder: so it cant be cipied over
05:26 AM Valen: replace *all* the software with linuxcnc ;->
05:26 AM Valen: and a modern computer
05:26 AM XXCoder: heh if I was getting fadal I'd do that
05:26 AM XXCoder: but I have no room for it, and I'm not that good on electrics.
05:28 AM XXCoder: I hoped they would give two office mills the boot but nooope...
05:29 AM XXCoder: I would be interested. for production those are seriously POS
05:29 AM XXCoder: but for home sure!
05:59 AM XXCoder: jthornton: its interesting that jose seem to be just chilling
06:03 AM jthornton: looks like it's headed for NC
06:03 AM XXCoder: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2017/09/13/0900Z/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-90.73,33.43,1171/loc=-101.722,15.740
06:03 AM XXCoder: it havent moved for a bit, you can click for days
06:04 AM XXCoder: theres prediction to 17th
06:05 AM XXCoder: it rotates around a little then maybe nc
06:05 AM Deejay: nice "map"
06:05 AM XXCoder: what about it
06:13 AM Deejay: everything. its animated! ;)
06:13 AM Deejay: and in colour!
06:28 AM XXCoder: yeah its nice
06:28 AM XXCoder: shows wind patterns
06:35 AM Tom_L: jthornton, how's it goin with eagle?
06:36 AM jthornton: not bad, just making a package for the relay
06:37 AM Tom_L: make sure you put the pads on the right layers etc
06:37 AM jthornton: I'm following the autodesk tutorial
06:37 AM Tom_L: when you get done you can model it too: https://eagleup.wordpress.com/
06:38 AM Tom_L: i did one for the heck of it once
06:40 AM jthornton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_designator
06:40 AM jthornton: interesting page
06:41 AM Tom_L: euro does it different too
06:46 AM jthornton: I had one post left to install and took a 2 1/2 core bit and the small hilti and drilled down into the footer as far as it would go
06:47 AM jthornton: a 2" two hole electrical strap on top and some epoxy on the bottom should make a sturdy post for the last gate to latch to
07:06 AM IchGucksLive: hi from stormy germany
07:11 AM Longbow: hi, here on slovenian coast is sunny today :D
07:12 AM IchGucksLive: lucky you are
07:12 AM Longbow: yeah, but it was 3 days very rainy :)
07:13 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: you can run the axis on a separate pid command
07:13 AM Longbow: I was just asking
07:13 AM IchGucksLive: or use a UVW axis command gcode
07:13 AM Longbow: I want to be able to do it from a HAL component
07:13 AM Longbow: it is an axis for the turret - tool changer
07:14 AM Longbow: so in HAL-auto mode
07:14 AM Longbow: but it does not work
07:14 AM IchGucksLive: do you got a image of the axis to get a impression
07:14 AM Longbow: you are saying instead to jog I should command a PID?*
07:14 AM Longbow: image?
07:15 AM Longbow: axis 1500mm with a servomotor with encoder
07:15 AM IchGucksLive: since 2.7 pid commands are comen
07:15 AM Longbow: it moves the turret's arms
07:15 AM Longbow: I have the master version because of the gmoccapy
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: movements like this
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.maschinensucher.de/vid/3428227.mp4
07:18 AM Longbow: kind of :)
07:18 AM Longbow: I am reviving an old DECKEL FP5CC/T
07:18 AM Longbow: everything already works but the tool changer
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: this mashines got philips control inside
07:20 AM Longbow: grunding
07:20 AM Longbow: dialog11
07:20 AM Longbow: but it is now emc2 :)
07:20 AM IchGucksLive: http://www.dialog5.com/toolchangers.htm
07:21 AM IchGucksLive: what version is on the mashine
07:21 AM Longbow: momoent
07:22 AM Longbow: It uses this arm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQZW8DMerIU
07:22 AM Longbow: I have it all connected and operational
07:23 AM Longbow: but I have to write a custom HAL component with machine-state programming style
07:23 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKYfqMhb6NU
07:23 AM Longbow: I already started but when the program runs the HAL .mode.is-auto and I cannot perform a manual jog
07:24 AM IchGucksLive: TC is not suposed to be joged manuell
07:24 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: your video is for fp4
07:24 AM Longbow: YES, the turret's hand has two arms one for horizontal/vertical
07:25 AM Longbow: yes but fp5 is only bigger dimensions-wise
07:25 AM Longbow: the tool changer is the same arm
07:25 AM Longbow: ok, how can I move the servomotor of the turret during program-run ?
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: i woudt go a easy way and give it a Joint
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: thne you can programm all positions
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: but as it is homed and has a fix comand position
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: you can only do pid
07:27 AM Longbow: no problem with pid
07:27 AM Longbow: I have it homed via index on the encoder
07:28 AM Longbow: but when homed the jogging will not work
07:28 AM Longbow: how to pass the command to PID?
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: then only comand the pid to the given value and back
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: its called during M6
07:29 AM Longbow: it's fine during m6
07:29 AM Longbow: but how do I pass the position value to the PID of the turret?
07:29 AM IchGucksLive: you lso need a pid for the positioning of your spindle
07:29 AM Longbow: yes
07:30 AM Longbow: PID for position and for velocity mode is directly to analogOUT
07:30 AM Longbow: no need for a pid when milling
07:30 AM Longbow: I have the spindle oriented
07:32 AM Longbow: this toolChanger: https://tinyurl.com/ya4ugpz8
07:33 AM Longbow: I should pass the position to pid.N.command ?
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: by the way im in germany
07:35 AM Longbow: You should visit Koper one day :P
07:42 AM Longbow: it seems to work trought
07:42 AM Longbow: *via PID
07:43 AM Longbow: but jogging is smoother.. It seems I have to tune the PID
07:43 AM IchGucksLive: you also can make a component that drives the pid like here https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/27250-tool-changer-component-integreted-on-a-axis#41392
07:49 AM Longbow: mr. ArcEye has some good examples: http://www.machinekit.io/docs/developing/toolchangers/
07:58 AM Longbow: But I cannot pass the position command to the pid.N.command PIN
07:58 AM Longbow: if it is at position "10" then I pass the pid.N.command "20" it will want to go in an instant to "20" with no acceleration and deceleration etc.
07:59 AM Longbow: like with jog. I have to tell the "speed of change" of position
08:01 AM IchGucksLive: but you got the feedback and the pid vel
08:01 AM Longbow: I understand the feedback
08:01 AM Longbow: but where do I enter the pid vel?
08:02 AM Longbow: this is the same as command?
08:03 AM Longbow: if I command the PID to 20 and it currently is at 10 it immediately goes to 20 like there was infinite acceleration
08:06 AM IchGucksLive: the pid goes out to a joint
08:06 AM IchGucksLive: and the joint got a VEL
08:06 AM IchGucksLive: also a ACC
08:07 AM IchGucksLive: im off sorry till later
08:11 AM Longbow: thx :)
10:41 AM * hazzy is back on line
10:42 AM hazzy: phone company put out generators this morning to Internet and phone it up
10:42 AM hazzy: still no power or sign of it being restored in the near future
10:43 AM hazzy: how did everyone survive the ravages of Irma?
10:44 AM Tom_itx: great but i'm in Ks
10:44 AM Tom_itx: pete had some shingles blow off and crap in the yard
10:46 AM jdh: I got rained on going to work
10:47 AM hazzy: I am sorry to hear that jdh, sounds very traumatizing :D
10:48 AM jdh: I did wait in the parking lot for 5mins to see if it wod let up some.
10:50 AM jdh: whenever they head to the gulf instead of turning north early, I briefly think 'sucks for them, but better there than here'
10:55 AM hazzy: Also, they are used to storms in the gulf!
10:55 AM hazzy: Were are you jdh?
10:56 AM jdh: wilmington nc
11:02 AM hazzy: oh, so you are right on the coast, but were well east of irma's path
11:09 AM hazzy: I am in atlanta ga, so way in land, but we still got hit pretty bad
11:15 AM jdh: on top of having to deal with I285
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: jdh: my german naibours Daughter is married in wilmington
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: hi ruoxi
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: hi likevinyl
12:11 PM Crom: morning
12:11 PM likevinyl: !ga
12:12 PM Crom: oops need to switch to the other core
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: Crom doont wast cores
01:06 PM gene83: Hi all; email dead all day
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: then use a other provider
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: or ask here for live discuss
01:08 PM gene83: I'm using my isp's server, which I can ping, but when I call they've a tape that says they are aware of the outage and are working on it.
01:08 PM roycroft: so you actually have time to do some work, gene83? :)
01:09 PM gene83: yes, if i
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: gene83: coudt also be the corn harvest miss at west virginian gateway :P
01:09 PM roycroft: west virginians don't harvest corn
01:09 PM roycroft: they harvest coal
01:09 PM gene83: yesy if I could figure out what I'm doing
01:09 PM gene83: we do too, but we drink some of it
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: gene83: thats why we all like to be here
01:10 PM gene83: he he
01:11 PM gene83: What I am trying to do, is make the camera, and the software, work on my mill, again.
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: did you upgrade to 7.11
01:13 PM gene83: I made a mount that puts it about 2" from the spindle, with adjustable parallax, and that part works, but I can't see to make camview find the camera
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: does vido4linux find it
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: OS is and gui ?
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: so axis gmocappy wheezy ?
01:15 PM gene83: I have a python script that does see it if I can preset it to the cameras resolution but its very unstable, may freeze and die at any time.
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: need more infos to help
01:15 PM gene83: cheese isn't very stable either
01:16 PM gene83: does video4linux have a scan all devices option?
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: gene83: please answer to OS is and gui ?
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: so we can precice make you running
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: it is different on depending settings
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: hi sh4rk
01:17 PM gene83: wheezy and axis, lcnc-2.8-pre just updated 10 minutes ago
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: why you use the master
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: its only nessesary for gantry homing
01:18 PM gene83: believe it or not, stability, plus I don't mind playing canary in a coal mine
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: ok so start here do you got the qv4l2
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: open a terminal and type "qv4l2"
01:20 PM gene83: I'm the same gene running an 11x36 Sheldon with a raspberry pi
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: If your camera is recognized and you are able to start a live stream, you are ready to go!
01:23 PM gene83: logged into it, ssh style, gets a small window that reports its native abilities, but is not copy/pastable
01:23 PM gene83: from an lsusb:
01:23 PM gene83: Bus 002 Device 002: ID 090c:f37d Silicon Motion, Inc. - Taiwan (formerly Feiya Technology Corp.)
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: doesent matter we need toget a livestream
01:26 PM gene83: qv4l2 can't open, can't find devive by path or id
01:26 PM gene83: qv4l2 can't open, can't find device by path or id
01:28 PM IchGucksLive: so cam is not regionised
01:28 PM gene83: cheese works, I am looking at the mills table, darkly, most room lights are off
01:30 PM gene83: but it also reports some gtk errors
01:30 PM gene83: (cheese:2814): Gtk-WARNING **: Attempting to add a widget with type GtkImage to a GtkToggleButton, but as a GtkBin subclass a GtkToggleButton can only contain one widget at a time; it already contains a widget of type GtkLabel
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: i need to close please look here https://forum.linuxcnc.org/48-gladevcp/30587-camview-for-wheesy-and-jessie
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:30 PM gene83: ok, will do and thanks
01:56 PM Crom_: Mini mill showed up
01:59 PM gene83: I'm back. what is qv4l2's gui supposed to do over and above recognizing the camera by it USB id?
02:00 PM Crom_: http://picpaste.com/20170913_110846.jpg
02:00 PM Crom_: Lms belt conversion on top
02:04 PM skunkworks: is that concidered a x2?
02:08 PM Crom_: yep
02:09 PM Crom_: now to clean all the grease off...
02:20 PM MrSunshine: hmm, my drivers says both peak and rms current .. what should i set the current to ? peak or rms? =)
02:32 PM Crom_: start with peak and work towards rms
02:33 PM Crom_: start with 1amp
02:37 PM gloops: work is the bane of the amateur cnc builder
02:38 PM gloops: the get a spell of concentrated building, the whole thing is like a living organism, many parts all need to function in perfect harmony for the whole to work
02:39 PM gloops: and just when the system is coming together in your mind, youre finally beginning to grasp it in its entirity
02:39 PM gloops: you have to leave off for 3 weeks, and it all returns to the grey jumble of bits in your brain
02:46 PM Crom_: YEP!
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Piece-Allen-Wrench-Hex-Key-Set-Heavy-Duty-Extra-Long-T-handle-SAE-Sizes-/262171093948 who makes a good set of these?
02:54 PM XXCoder: I love mine. a second
02:55 PM XXCoder: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00012WYEC/
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pc-Metric-T-Handle-Allen-Wrench-Hex-Key-Set-With-Holders/112040573579 don't waste your money on these, they are so far from spec they tend to round out the hex in the fasteners
02:55 PM XXCoder: bondus is very common at work, and I own one. works very well. there is "ball end" and "flat end" variants. mine is flat
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: I use the ball ends mostly
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: unless it's a straight shot the flats can't get in
02:56 PM gloops: i had a small set of the ball ends, i liked them, but got more allen keys than ill probably ever use now from a workshop clearout
02:57 PM XXCoder: oh there is very long version with smaller handles also.
02:57 PM XXCoder: never had issues with inserting tool
02:58 PM XXCoder: couple of mine is very well worn now lol one of em I had constantly used so easily few hundred times
02:58 PM XXCoder: think can order singles on amazon also
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: i wear out or twist the most popular sizes
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: I have several long and short arm sets
03:00 PM XXCoder: either I remembered wrong or they dont sell singles anymore
03:00 PM gloops: allen keys are ok in some situations, when theyre on something where they need cracking off you get problems with the tools
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: I get single sizes all the time
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: Mcmaster carries then
03:01 PM XXCoder: nice
03:01 PM XXCoder: want to evenually replace one, that ones so worn
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-keys/=19danu6
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: they even stock the <1mm sizes
03:03 PM XXCoder: they make their own or what?
03:03 PM XXCoder: it doesnt say what brand tools are
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: they buy in bulk
03:04 PM malcom2073: Hmm, when twisting two or three wires together with a drill, does it out undue strain on the wires? I've seen a couple wire twisting things on YouTube that do fancy thing like counter rotating the individual strands when twisting, but is that necessary?
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: no brand on them, they show up in a plastic bag
03:04 PM XXCoder: interesting
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: malcom2073: why are they being twisted?
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: wire nut, fun, some other application
03:07 PM malcom2073: Capt for noise reduction, yanno, twisted pair
03:07 PM malcom2073: Long lengths I mean
03:08 PM XXCoder: malcom2073: cat5 have twisted pairs in it in order to cut noise
03:08 PM XXCoder: but it may not be needed depending on uses
03:08 PM malcom2073: Right
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: I'd use the lowest toque rating on small conductors
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: torque even
03:09 PM malcom2073: I'm talking twisting the wires myself. I've been doing it with a drill for the past 15 years, and was just scolded by someone, saying that strains the wires too much, you should never use a drill
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: you can
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: depends on how twisted your getting them
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: you're
03:10 PM malcom2073: Right, but using a drill, a light twist doesn't stay
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: the wire makers use something similar to a drill to twist them
03:10 PM malcom2073: Which has always annoyed me, if you want fewer than a twist an inch or so, you have to hand twist
03:11 PM malcom2073: Or use something like a rope twister
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: what frequency are we talking about?
03:12 PM malcom2073: ?
03:12 PM malcom2073: Of twists per inch?
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: electrical not pitch
03:13 PM malcom2073: Oh, no clue, I'm just told it needs to be twisted :p
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: look at Cat5 and Cat6 cables and their frequencies
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: into the many MHz
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: cat6 is ~3 twists per inch
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: cat5 is around half that
03:15 PM malcom2073: I'm not talking about noise reduction capabilities, I'm talking about what's required to get it to twist strain free
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: I understand
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: my point is that you may be twisting them far beyond what you need
03:16 PM malcom2073: I'm sure I am, but I can't twist it less with a drill, without it falling apart
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: we used to have custom cables molded all the time
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: if you're not using a jacket then you introduce strain to get them to hold together
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: twist plus some pressure applied after
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: thats how they used to make them for us
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: might have bee some heat as well as it passed through the mandrel
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: $1000 hex key set, just ordered two http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titan-12749-Metric-T-Handle-Hex-Key-Set-8pc-Hex-Key-/322445508954 just kidding
03:21 PM malcom2073: Heh
03:21 PM XXCoder: so cheap! lol
03:21 PM malcom2073: Yeah, that's what I keep thinking, it needs some level of strain to hold together
03:21 PM XXCoder: love how "techinical details" is blank
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: malcom2073: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tNeZivx30s
03:22 PM XXCoder: so they have no reason at all on why this fancypants tools are worth buying :P
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: even better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzPuQ0Go_s
03:23 PM XXCoder: theres cat7 already
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: malcom2073: they measure tension just like a printing press
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2D5c9mGsnk
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: when twisted they don't unwind but they have been reshaped
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: if you untwist them you'll see how they conform to each other
03:27 PM XXCoder: yep
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: they are all bumpy when untwisted
03:27 PM XXCoder: I see this when I wire cat5 wires
03:27 PM malcom2073: Yeah, she they do need tension, but I guess proper tensioning enough to conform without damaging is key
03:28 PM malcom2073: The guy I'm working for wants no tension, no force on the wire
03:28 PM malcom2073: I keep telling him it doesn't work that way
03:28 PM malcom2073: It'll come undone
03:28 PM XXCoder: that last video shows wire inspection
03:28 PM XXCoder: short segement it still stays together
03:28 PM malcom2073: Tension is good, torsion is bad, that makes sense though
03:59 PM JT-Shop: hey XXCoder
03:59 PM XXCoder: yo
03:59 PM XXCoder: whats up
04:00 PM JT-Shop: finishing up the chain link fence, building the last gate
04:01 PM XXCoder: nice :)
04:03 PM JT-Shop: is the ASL used world wide?
04:03 PM XXCoder: nah
04:03 PM XXCoder: there is plenty variants though like sasl
04:03 PM Deejay: A for american
04:03 PM XXCoder: south africa sign language
04:04 PM XXCoder: but british developed their own - bsl
04:04 PM XXCoder: their fingerspelling is very very different
04:05 PM JT-Shop: I was just wondering...
04:06 PM XXCoder: did I offend you?
04:11 PM JT-Shop: alright bills are paid back to the fence :)
04:16 PM roycroft: do any folks here have experience with pneumatic stamping machines?
04:17 PM roycroft: i'm wondering how piston depth and pressure are generally controlled
04:32 PM Deejay: gn8
04:32 PM JT-Shop: dual rod cylinders ie one out the back with a positive stop
04:37 PM Todd_Z: The problem with trying to twist a pair of wires with a drill, is that you are "twisting" them. The wires need to be wrapped arround each other without adding twist.
04:38 PM Tom_itx: you need a spool winder
04:38 PM TurBoss: what a bout using 2 drills?
04:38 PM TurBoss: hehe
04:38 PM Tom_itx: spin the spools as you let the wire out
04:38 PM Tom_itx: that's how the big machines do it
04:39 PM JT-Shop: you need a may pole device so the strands are not wound up
04:39 PM * JT-Shop gets the poop shirt on and grabs a beer
04:40 PM Tom_itx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D1ZbjKxUIE
04:42 PM Tom_itx: i've seen a line where it comes off that and goes thru a jacket coater and into a cooling bath right onto a spool
06:35 PM Tom_itx: does solidworks support a middle mouse button function? i don't see it in the 'gesture' list. i'm not really wanting a gesture more a click combination of buttons if it's possible
06:36 PM _methods: yep
06:36 PM Tom_itx: hold middle, click right for example
06:36 PM _methods: i think i shift with middle
06:36 PM Tom_itx: hold middle, hold right
06:36 PM Tom_itx: i'm trying to get it to work the same as it does in catia
06:36 PM _methods: ugh
06:36 PM Tom_itx: it's soooo handy the way catia does it
06:37 PM _methods: i think there is a setting somewhere that lets you set it up like catia
06:37 PM tiwake: _methods: hi
06:37 PM _methods: yo
06:37 PM Tom_itx: you never have to leave the mouse
06:37 PM Tom_itx: do you know where?
06:38 PM _methods: i guess i'm wrong
06:38 PM _methods: i thought there was a setting to make it act like catia or inventor
06:39 PM Tom_itx: apparently i'm not the only one complaining about it
06:40 PM _methods: yeah i use so many diff cad programs i just use them the way they're set up
06:40 PM _methods: i get so sick of reconfiguring them to work the way i want
06:40 PM _methods: then you do a new install and it's all wiped
06:40 PM _methods: and you have to do it all over again
06:41 PM _methods: so i just use default settings in everything
06:42 PM Tom_itx: in catia i can zoom, pan and rotate all with those 2 buttons
06:42 PM Tom_itx: just makes is so simple
06:43 PM Tom_itx: it's just whether you don't click right, click right or click and hold right
06:43 PM Tom_itx: i think i tried to figure it out a while back too and gave up..
07:50 PM * evilroot has a question
07:51 PM evilroot: So I converted a large CNC machine to modern controls for a client
07:51 PM evilroot: Problem is, they have no idea how to actually use it. I've only ever done the hardware end so danged if I know what to tell them
07:51 PM evilroot: Any suggestions on aactual design software/etc?
07:52 PM evilroot: The goal is to cut inlays into tables . . . aka say a 3" thick plank and they want like a 1/2" inlay
08:02 PM malcom2073: evilroot: A lot of the router guys use aspire for inlays and the like
08:15 PM tiwake: evilroot: they don't know how to use the software? or they don't know how to use the machine?
08:16 PM enleth: shop safety 101: remember, never operate machinery while drinking beer from a glass container, it may break and produce hazardous shards. use plastic cups instead.
08:16 PM pfred1: why is one mutually exclusive of the other?
08:16 PM tiwake: enleth: cans are fine too, but yeah on the glass
08:26 PM evilroot: tiwake: Before they had a commercial software that "just worked"
08:27 PM evilroot: AKA they put in how thick the material was, made a design, and then it did its thing
08:27 PM pfred1: I'm having a hell of a time getting some FLOSS software to work lately
08:27 PM evilroot: But the old control system died, and getting a new one was insanely expensive . . . . plus the original software was like 15 years old
08:28 PM evilroot: So I build a new controller to interface with the steppers directly . . . based on RAMPS 1.4
08:29 PM evilroot: I figured that was that, but then they were like: "Okay, but how do we put in our stuff"?
08:29 PM evilroot: X.X
08:29 PM pfred1: the drives on RAMPS boards are kind of weak
08:30 PM evilroot: Oh I didn't use them
08:30 PM pfred1: I was chatting with someone and they were like 2 amps and 35V but I pointed out you're not going to get both at the same time
08:30 PM evilroot: Just the sheild, and ran the step/dir/enable pins to much larger stepper drivers
08:31 PM pfred1: that'd be 70 Watts!
08:31 PM evilroot: The motors on the machine itself are HUGE
08:31 PM evilroot: The thing is 6ft x 10 ft
08:32 PM pfred1: yeah it needs powerful drives
08:32 PM pfred1: the little plug in drives on RAMPS boards are more like 4W max
08:33 PM pfred1: I don't think they can even reliably supply that
08:35 PM Tom_itx: get some gecko drivers or a china knockoff of them
08:35 PM pfred1: I didn'
08:36 PM Tom_itx: get rid of all that reprap stuff and get some nice mesa hardware for it
08:36 PM pfred1: I didn't know China was counterfeiting Geckos
08:36 PM Tom_itx: no but there are comparable drives for cheap
08:36 PM pfred1: Marris is a nice guy too
08:36 PM Tom_itx: V & A wise
08:37 PM pfred1: really his hardware is reasonably priced for what it is and his service is excellent
08:37 PM Tom_itx: evilroot, have you run the machine with the drivers you installed?
08:37 PM pfred1: I was reading the other day about some guy whose house got hit by lightning and it blew out his drives Gecko replaced them!
08:38 PM pfred1: you can't beat service liek that
08:38 PM Tom_itx: i had that happen to a phone system
08:38 PM Tom_itx: gecko didn't replace it :)
08:38 PM Tom_itx: i'm using the 203v on mine
08:40 PM evilroot: Yeah, I've run it fine
08:40 PM evilroot: And calibrated steps/mm, etc
08:40 PM Tom_itx: ok
08:41 PM evilroot: Its running Repetier Firmware currently
08:41 PM Tom_itx: what software are you using to run it?
08:41 PM evilroot: I jugged it around with CURA
08:41 PM evilroot: *jogged
08:41 PM evilroot: And did some manual test cuts that way as well
08:42 PM Tom_itx: of course we're gonna try to sway you to linuxcnc :)
08:42 PM evilroot: Obviously :D
08:42 PM Tom_itx: that's what we get paid the big bux for here
08:42 PM * Tom_itx checks the hole in his pocket
08:42 PM evilroot: Which is fine, but that's just part of the toolchain correct?
08:42 PM Tom_itx: yeah
08:43 PM evilroot: I'm a beginner . . . hardware is my thing and little else
08:43 PM Tom_itx: but what you have now runs a limited subset of gcode
08:43 PM pfred1: software is where the magic happens
08:43 PM Tom_itx: on a router you may be ok with that
08:43 PM evilroot: Indeed. I've used a Shopbot plenty, but their software makes it really easy
08:43 PM pfred1: I'm working on building up my software tools over here lately
08:43 PM Tom_itx: however with linuxcnc you will have better performance
08:44 PM Tom_itx: they have a new trajectory planner
08:44 PM Tom_itx: allows for a good lookahead
08:44 PM evilroot: My question is 1: how to design the part
08:44 PM Tom_itx: i don't know all the particulars of it but i do know it was a big improvement to lcnc
08:44 PM evilroot: I'm assuming they need to model it in some sort of CAD program?
08:45 PM pfred1: 3D modeling
08:45 PM Tom_itx: linuxcnc has limited features you can make basic 2d stuff
08:45 PM Tom_itx: if you need full 3d you'll be looking at something else
08:45 PM pfred1: I've been getting into FreeCAD lately
08:45 PM evilroot: CAD they can do
08:45 PM evilroot: No, just simple inlays
08:45 PM pfred1: 2.5D ?
08:45 PM Tom_itx: as a machinist one would be looking at something like mastercam or solidworks with a cam add on etc
08:45 PM evilroot: Exactly
08:46 PM pfred1: yeah that's easy
08:46 PM evilroot: They do strictly wood
08:46 PM Tom_itx: there are decent 2.5d programs out there for little or nothing
08:46 PM pfred1: you can use f-engrave
08:46 PM Tom_itx: i'm not so familiar with them
08:46 PM fltrz: does anyone know of some project that used dental handpieces for micro CNC-ing? they have high RPM, tend to have integrated spray system, ... they seem like an obvious combination = I must be missing something?
08:46 PM Tom_itx: i've heard of f-engrave, you might wanna check it out..
08:47 PM pfred1: but f-engrave doesn't do scale quite right
08:47 PM pfred1: if you absolutely need perfect scale then dxf2gcode works
08:47 PM Tom_itx: what about inkscape?
08:47 PM Tom_itx: i don't know about it but some use it
08:47 PM pfred1: I found that out isolation routing PCB
08:47 PM evilroot: They will have a peice with a crack for instance
08:47 PM evilroot: And need to reinforce it with multiple inlays
08:48 PM pfred1: I have the gcodetools thing in Inkscape and i htink it is garbage
08:48 PM evilroot: Which are usually bow tie shaped
08:48 PM pfred1: maybe I'm doing it wrong? but I think it sucks
08:48 PM pfred1: I do use Inkscape to export DXF files to process though
08:49 PM evilroot: F-Engrave looks like exactly what they're looking for
08:49 PM Tom_itx: whatever you decide to use, you will need to make sure the post puts out the gcode your machine accepts
08:49 PM pfred1: if you want to pocket FreeCAD is where it is at
08:49 PM Tom_itx: and you may need to tweak the post a little
08:49 PM pfred1: I still haven't run the latest FreeCAD myself yet people say it is nice
08:49 PM evilroot: So say I make my model in F-Engrave
08:50 PM pfred1: F-engrave is not a modeler
08:50 PM evilroot: That then generates Gcode which I feed to LinuxCNC?
08:50 PM Tom_itx: i don't follow the cheap/free stuff because i have commercial software so i can't say what's good or bad
08:50 PM evilroot: It . . . isn't?
08:50 PM pfred1: f-engrave can do line dragings and text
08:50 PM pfred1: drawings
08:50 PM evilroot: So they import an image of their inlay and then size it, right?
08:50 PM pfred1: for what it is it is nice
08:51 PM evilroot: And set it to the right depth?
08:51 PM pfred1: but I don't think you can do pocketing with it?
08:51 PM evilroot: Or am I missing something
08:51 PM pfred1: it just does lines
08:51 PM Tom_itx: cambam? maybe
08:51 PM Tom_itx: pete used it a bit i think
08:52 PM pfred1: artcam
08:52 PM evilroot: f-engrave says it supports pocketing
08:52 PM Tom_itx: somewhere on the lcnc site there's a list of cad cam i think
08:52 PM pfred1: with proprietary stuff there's the licensing and versions get old
08:53 PM Tom_itx: but old versions still work
08:53 PM pfred1: maybe it is a feature I never tried I only have version 1.60?
08:53 PM Tom_itx: the company mine is from has been sold probably 4 times since i bought it
08:53 PM evilroot: So say I pick a program and it exports Gcode
08:53 PM pfred1: yeah but then you're tied to old hardware an old OS
08:53 PM Tom_itx: right
08:53 PM evilroot: I just load that with LinuxCNC and it talks to the machine for me?
08:54 PM pfred1: evilroot usually there's 2 steps you make the image file or model then your translate that to G Code
08:54 PM Tom_itx: pfred1, i have a dos version of it and can still run it on windows xp, 7, 8...
08:54 PM Tom_itx: not the dos version..
08:54 PM evilroot: pfred1: It looks like f-carve does both
08:55 PM Tom_itx: there's better stuff out there for sure
08:55 PM pfred1: CAD CAM
08:55 PM pfred1: hmm f-carve?
08:55 PM evilroot: f-engrave I mean
08:55 PM evilroot: heh
08:55 PM pfred1: ah I thought maybe different stuff
08:55 PM pfred1: there is a bunch
08:55 PM evilroot: Anyways, I'm at the office, let me pick this is when I get home.
08:56 PM evilroot: be back in a few
08:56 PM pfred1: f-engrave is great for getting started you can get results fast it is simple to use
08:56 PM pfred1: I think i had to add G62 to the commands though?
08:57 PM pfred1: sometimes it did funny things on the machine
08:57 PM Tom_itx: can you draw with f-engrave?
08:57 PM Tom_itx: or do you need to import a dxf
08:57 PM pfred1: well you can make test files
08:57 PM pfred1: text
08:58 PM pfred1: but there's no drawing that i know of
08:58 PM pfred1: it will import image files
08:58 PM pfred1: pbm?
08:58 PM pfred1: like black and shite stuff
08:58 PM pfred1: black and white
08:58 PM pfred1: or DXF
08:59 PM pfred1: you should see this bad ass dragon I had it plot
08:59 PM pfred1: I converted the image to pbm then just fed it in
09:00 PM pfred1: but it took 2 hours to run so not very efficient
09:01 PM pfred1: I have yet to figure out how to auto trace something decent
09:43 PM * evilroot has returned
09:44 PM pfred1: wb
09:44 PM evilroot: So yeah, I think I have a starting point
09:45 PM evilroot: But there's something else I'm curious about . . . . it says in the docs LinuxCNC supports servos?
09:45 PM pfred1: sure
09:45 PM evilroot: AKA I could control a servo without needing a dedicated controller?
09:45 PM pfred1: you need an amp
09:46 PM pfred1: what do you mean by dedicated controller?
09:46 PM pfred1: LinuxCNC is a motion controller
09:46 PM evilroot: It seemed like it would directly read the encoders
09:46 PM evilroot: Or am I way off base, heh
09:47 PM evilroot: Guessing I am
09:47 PM pfred1: LinuxCNC just needs I/O
09:48 PM evilroot: I've retrofitted quite a few inductrial servo driven robots
09:48 PM pfred1: other than that it generates control signals
09:48 PM evilroot: And still have several left. Nobody likes buying them as is, they all want ready to use X.X
09:48 PM pfred1: well yeah
09:48 PM evilroot: Shame because they'd get 2x the deal, but meh
09:48 PM pfred1: LinuxCNC can do 11 degrees of freedom?
09:49 PM pfred1: something silly like that
09:49 PM evilroot: I've been using the Geckodrive G320X
09:49 PM evilroot: These are 4 axis, the 4th being a rotating toolhead
09:49 PM pfred1: 4 should be no problem
09:49 PM evilroot: Since it does continuous rotation very nice for tool changers and the like
09:50 PM pfred1: but for servos you need industrial I/O
09:50 PM evilroot: The bots themselves are ridiculous . . . 1M/sec, 40 micron accuracy, 15kg payload
09:50 PM pfred1: a parallel port ain't gonna cut it there
09:51 PM evilroot: Yeah, I've used Arduino MEGA and the G320X which takes step/dir
09:51 PM evilroot: I mean just the Y axis motor is 500W
09:51 PM pfred1: but lots of people run LinuxCNC with what are they SCARA robots?
09:51 PM evilroot: Yeah, I have one of those as well
09:51 PM evilroot: And sold one
09:51 PM pfred1: youtube is loaded with videos
09:51 PM evilroot: Not sure what I'll do with the one I kept
09:55 PM roycroft: i asked earlier about controlling pneumatic cylinders and did not see any response, which is fine
09:55 PM roycroft: i've been doing a bit of research, and what i've come up with so far is that pressure can be controlled by adjusting the air pressure, and the piston is pretty much all or nothing, so adjusting depth is done by adjusting the distance from the piston to the platen
09:56 PM roycroft: does that sound right?
09:56 PM pfred1: I'm purely parallel ports and open loop steppers here
09:57 PM pfred1: air is bouncy in my limited experience with air cylinders
09:57 PM pfred1: which just goes as far as Genie lifts
09:58 PM roycroft: meaning that it's hard to adjust the force of the piston, no matter what?
09:58 PM pfred1: I guess because air compresses?
09:58 PM evilroot: roycroft: depends on the cylinder
09:58 PM roycroft: yeah, that would make sense
09:58 PM pfred1: yeah it seems awfully load dependent to me
09:58 PM evilroot: And the load, yes
09:58 PM evilroot: Its certainly possible
09:58 PM roycroft: what i want is to not slam into the load
09:59 PM pfred1: compressed air is like a speing though
09:59 PM roycroft: i want to gently push on it
09:59 PM pfred1: spring even
09:59 PM evilroot: Which is the answer
09:59 PM evilroot: Use a spring
09:59 PM roycroft: so i suppose that i could start out at low pressure and increase the pressure as the piston extends
09:59 PM evilroot: Indeed
09:59 PM pfred1: air is fast
09:59 PM evilroot: But you would need VERY low pressure
09:59 PM pfred1: that's one thing air has going for it
09:59 PM roycroft: the stroke is the bigger issue for me though
10:00 PM roycroft: and i think i'm right that it's all or nothing
10:00 PM pfred1: air actuators are like lightning
10:00 PM evilroot: Yeah
10:00 PM roycroft: i.e. i could not reliably do a partial stroke
10:00 PM pfred1: I'm not going to say you can't
10:00 PM evilroot: Now there are actuators that CAN do that
10:00 PM evilroot: Some pnuematic even
10:00 PM pfred1: but I'd think hydraulic would be a lot easier
10:01 PM roycroft: so adjusting the platen to cylinder distance is the way to go for that
10:01 PM evilroot: But they're NOT cheap
10:01 PM roycroft: and not fast
10:01 PM evilroot: Some totally are!
10:01 PM roycroft: i'm trying to do this on the cheap
10:01 PM evilroot: The Parket Origa ones I use are 5ft long and move insanely fast
10:02 PM roycroft: the application is foil embossing on leather
10:02 PM evilroot: And you can control the position to the mm
10:02 PM pfred1: what you save in money you often pay for in time
10:02 PM roycroft: so i need a heated stamp, which i can easily make
10:02 PM roycroft: and i need to push it into the leather in a controlled manner
10:02 PM roycroft: not a lot of force required here
10:02 PM roycroft: nor a long stroke
10:02 PM pfred1: I bet you can do it
10:02 PM evilroot: I'd use a stepper and screw personally
10:02 PM roycroft: but control is important
10:03 PM evilroot: So much easier
10:03 PM pfred1: maybe air with a return spring?
10:03 PM pfred1: it would be worth screwing aroudn with some
10:03 PM roycroft: www.ebay.com/itm/152516096281
10:03 PM roycroft: that's the kind of cylinder i'm thinking will work
10:04 PM roycroft: i'm talking about stamps that are maybe 5cmx10cm or so
10:04 PM pfred1: someplace i have a couple air cylinders i picked up someplace
10:05 PM pfred1: and one really big one
10:05 PM roycroft: for $20 i should probably just get that and play with it
10:05 PM pfred1: that put up a backetball net
10:05 PM roycroft: if i heat the stamp to about 250c it only needs a second or so contact with the leather to do the embossing
10:06 PM roycroft: and if it's in contact much longer it will start burning the leather
10:06 PM roycroft: so i want something with quick action
10:06 PM pfred1: air is really fast
10:06 PM roycroft: that is why i'm thinking about air - fast and cheap
10:07 PM roycroft: i'd use a couple solenoids on the cylinder
10:07 PM roycroft: controlled with a pedal
10:07 PM pfred1: no timer?
10:07 PM roycroft: pedal down, inlet solenoid opens and outlet solenoid closes
10:08 PM roycroft: pedal up, the opposite
10:08 PM pfred1: for consistency I'd think you'd want to use a timer
10:08 PM roycroft: manual control might actualy be better, unless i start using it for large production runs
10:08 PM roycroft: but i might consider a timer
10:08 PM pfred1: just set it and forget it!
10:08 PM roycroft: i could make one quite easily with a decade counter
10:09 PM roycroft: and a little crystal
10:09 PM pfred1: 555 timer
10:09 PM roycroft: or that, yeah
10:09 PM roycroft: i'm sure i have a few of those in the ic drawers
10:09 PM pfred1: wouldn't need to be complicated
10:10 PM pfred1: just one shot
10:10 PM roycroft: and for the heat i'd just get an 8x80mm cartridge heater and a pid controller
10:11 PM roycroft: i can buy a crappy chinese embosser for $300
10:11 PM roycroft: but i think i can make one that's much better for half that
10:13 PM pfred1: shipping is a killer with a lot of things
10:13 PM evilroot: Again, I'd just use a motor
10:13 PM roycroft: $40 pid, $6 heater, $20 cylinder - that leaves me $90 for some bits of aluminium and steel, most of which i probably already have, and some paint
10:14 PM roycroft: i guess i'd need a couple solenoids as well
10:14 PM roycroft: but i might have some
10:14 PM evilroot: Cheap stepper turns screw, presses down stamp
10:14 PM pfred1: yeah a motor with an H bridge might not have the punch though?
10:14 PM evilroot: Hence the screw to amp the force
10:14 PM roycroft: it would be slower, i should think
10:14 PM pfred1: a loose thread and a fast motor
10:14 PM evilroot: Yeah but not too slow for the application
10:15 PM pfred1: like a 5 start
10:15 PM evilroot: You're not talking much distance here
10:15 PM roycroft: it would have the advantage of not having to be by a source of compressed air
10:15 PM roycroft: no, the cylinder i linked to above has a 3/4" stroke
10:15 PM roycroft: which is plenty
10:15 PM pfred1: short lead screws are cheap
10:15 PM roycroft: i'll consider that as an option
10:16 PM pfred1: no one wants them
10:16 PM evilroot: Hell just threaded rod or a bolt works
10:16 PM evilroot: We're not talking high precision here
10:16 PM pfred1: threaded rod is crappy as an actuator
10:16 PM roycroft: an advantage of a stepper motor vs. the cylinder would be that stroke length could be controlled without moving the platen
10:16 PM evilroot: Yeah
10:16 PM pfred1: I wouldn't bother wit ha stepper
10:16 PM evilroot: And they're dirt cheap to drve
10:17 PM pfred1: but a stepper would be greatest control
10:17 PM pfred1: still steppers can be funny about acceleration
10:18 PM pfred1: like they don't like to go fast right out of the gate they like to ramp up
10:18 PM roycroft: that's the action i want, actually
10:19 PM pfred1: yeah but you have to make them do it
10:19 PM roycroft: i'd want ideally want the stamp to "touch down" while it's going relatively slowly, and then accelerate to full depth
10:19 PM pfred1: it is not as trivial as sending them a straight step pulse
10:19 PM roycroft: which is only going to be 0.050" or so
10:19 PM pfred1: still an Arduino and you're golden
10:20 PM roycroft: i think what i need to do first is try to determine how much force i need to make the impression
10:24 PM * evilroot yawns
10:24 PM evilroot: I suppose while I'm around I should ask if anybody is looking for gear
10:24 PM evilroot: I have quite the excess
10:24 PM roycroft: what kind of gear?
10:25 PM evilroot: Motors, linear rails, entire cartesian and SCARA robots, and really big pnumatic linear actuators
10:26 PM roycroft: sounds like fun gear
10:27 PM roycroft: cash is tight right now, but motors might be interesting in a few weeks
10:27 PM roycroft: i'll ask you then what you still have
10:29 PM pfred1: my next big purchase is going to be a new PC
10:29 PM pfred1: this dog is too old anymore
10:30 PM pfred1: it is like 8 years old now
10:30 PM roycroft: my mac pro died in mid july, and i just bought a new imac to replace it
10:31 PM roycroft: which is a big reason money is tight right now
10:32 PM pfred1: well this PC isn't dead but it is slow
10:32 PM pfred1: it was good for a while but now I feel the need for more speed
10:32 PM roycroft: the imac i got is actually less powerful than the almost 10 year old mac pro was
10:32 PM roycroft: but it's powerful enough
10:32 PM pfred1: nope this one isn't
10:32 PM roycroft: and it has a 27" retina display, which is gorgeous
10:33 PM pfred1: it is an intel e5200
10:33 PM roycroft: just not enough memory - i need to upgrade that
10:33 PM roycroft: but i don't buy memory from apple
10:33 PM pfred1: I've been compiling code and i have to go to sleep while it finishes
10:34 PM roycroft: this has a 3.2GHz core i5, with 4 cores
10:34 PM pfred1: so time for a turbo boost
10:34 PM pfred1: yeah that would be nice
10:34 PM roycroft: i run virtual machines a lot
10:34 PM pfred1: I'm thinking about an i5
10:34 PM roycroft: and i run solidworks and autcad in virtual machines a lot
10:34 PM pfred1: but AMD is awfully tempting these days
10:34 PM roycroft: i need a bit of horespower
10:35 PM pfred1: still intel is a name i can trust
10:35 PM roycroft: there
10:35 PM roycroft: is only 8GB of ram in the imac though
10:35 PM pfred1: I can trust it to be somewhat overpriced
10:35 PM roycroft: i had 13GB in my mac pro
10:35 PM roycroft: i think i'm going to add 16GB to the imac next month
10:35 PM roycroft: 24GB should be plenty
10:35 PM pfred1: I should hope so
10:36 PM * roycroft does not like swapping
10:36 PM pfred1: I have 6 GB and I never swap
10:36 PM roycroft: well, i don't have any virtual machines running right now, and i occasionally swap
10:36 PM roycroft: if i fire up a solidworks vm i'll need 8GB for that
10:37 PM evilroot: Mac Pro died?
10:37 PM evilroot: o.O
10:37 PM roycroft: yeah
10:37 PM pfred1: I'll get one of those SSDs too
10:37 PM roycroft: but i had it for almost 10 years
10:37 PM roycroft: i got my money out of it :)
10:37 PM pfred1: what i do is change out my PSU every 5 years
10:37 PM evilroot: It's probably just the power supply
10:37 PM roycroft: i think it's the framebuffer that failed
10:37 PM roycroft: which had failed once before
10:38 PM evilroot: Very typical on those machines
10:38 PM roycroft: and i might consider getting a new, low end one for it
10:38 PM pfred1: by the nthey're pumping out enough ripple to fry the caps on a motherboard
10:38 PM evilroot: Its repairable
10:38 PM roycroft: but i was stuck on mountain lion
10:38 PM roycroft: no newer mac os would run on it
10:38 PM evilroot: You can get higher by hacking the install
10:38 PM roycroft: so it made sense to just get a new machine
10:38 PM evilroot: But yeah
10:38 PM pfred1: yeah after 10 years
10:39 PM * evilroot has a long and sordid history with Apple
10:39 PM evilroot: X.X
10:39 PM pfred1: that's why I want to retire this system it is getting there
10:39 PM roycroft: and with the mac pro, i had a 24" 1080p main display, and a 21" 1050p cinema display as secondary
10:39 PM evilroot: Heck according to the interwebs I killed Steve Jobs
10:39 PM roycroft: the imac has a 27" retina display with ridiculous resolution, and the 24" display is now the secondary display
10:39 PM roycroft: so i have a significant real estate upgrade
10:39 PM evilroot: Too bad they're so non upgradable
10:40 PM roycroft: i can stuff more memory in it
10:40 PM pfred1: I don'
10:40 PM evilroot: FYI with those, primary failure is overheating
10:40 PM roycroft: and that's all i care about
10:40 PM pfred1: I don't really ever upgrade stuff
10:40 PM roycroft: i knew the mac pro was on its last legs a long time ago
10:40 PM evilroot: Apple intentionally does a shitty job with the thermal paste
10:40 PM pfred1: just replace it
10:40 PM roycroft: so earlier this year i bought a nice machine and built a freenas server
10:41 PM roycroft: and moved almost all my storage off the mac pro onto the frenas server
10:41 PM roycroft: which has worked out brilliantly
10:41 PM pfred1: yeah I have a fileserver
10:41 PM pfred1: its handy
10:41 PM roycroft: zfs is the bee's knees of filesystems
10:41 PM pfred1: that's how i put files on my CNC machine
10:42 PM pfred1: if it don't say ext I don't run it
10:42 PM roycroft: i use xfs on my debian machines
10:42 PM roycroft: but zfs blows any other filesystems away in robustness
10:42 PM pfred1: I only ever use ext filesystems
10:42 PM roycroft: and blows most of them away in performance
10:43 PM roycroft: my freenas sever is ridiculous though - 24 cores, 48GB of ram
10:43 PM roycroft: and 16TB of disk
10:43 PM roycroft: with room for another 6 disks
10:43 PM pfred1: that's a lot of storage
10:44 PM * roycroft loves the lease return resellers on ebay :)
10:44 PM roycroft: i've ripped my entire cd collection and dvd collection
10:44 PM roycroft: i run a plex media server on the freenas machine
10:44 PM roycroft: i'm done jumping up to change the cd/dvd!
10:45 PM pfred1: I don't really listen to music much anyore if I want to hear a song I look it up on youtube
10:45 PM * roycroft has >3500 cds, and close to 1000 dvds
10:45 PM roycroft: so it takes a lot of storage to rip all of that
10:45 PM roycroft: on the other hand, my living room is much more spacious now that i've removed several media storage cabinets
10:45 PM pfred1: I bet
10:46 PM Tom_itx: 24 cores.. how many CPUs?
10:46 PM pfred1: this system does have a pretty nice sound system
10:46 PM roycroft: 6 cpus
10:46 PM roycroft: i got the thing for $400 off ebay
10:46 PM Tom_itx: the i9 gets close to that
10:46 PM roycroft: without any disk
10:46 PM evilroot: Sounds a lot like my FreeNAS setup
10:46 PM pfred1: I got the highest end soundcard Linux supports
10:46 PM roycroft: it also has dual power supplies
10:46 PM roycroft: i'm really happy with it
10:47 PM roycroft: i built a couple freenas machines for work last year and decided that i needed one for home
10:47 PM pfred1: just change out the PSUs every 5 years and it'll last forever
10:47 PM roycroft: my mac pro had 4 internal disks and i think 6 external drives
10:47 PM roycroft: that's the other nice thing
10:47 PM evilroot: Mine is a Dell PowerEdge T720
10:47 PM pfred1: Seasonic
10:48 PM pfred1: or you can recap the PSUs you got
10:49 PM evilroot: Its running dual 8-core Xeons, 256GB Ram, and has external shelves for the drives
10:49 PM evilroot: Currently at 252TB
10:50 PM evilroot: Like 220-some with RAID overhead
10:51 PM * evilroot never deletes ANYTHING
10:52 PM roycroft: the freenas server does not live in my office
10:53 PM roycroft: so the office is now much quieter and cooler
10:53 PM roycroft: nice
10:53 PM pfred1: I delete stuff
10:53 PM roycroft: so you still have all your ascii pr0n from the '80s!
10:53 PM evilroot: I'm not that old X.X
10:54 PM evilroot: Mine is in my server room in the basement
10:54 PM evilroot: Well, more like cabinet, I have two 40U racks down there
10:54 PM roycroft: i moved most of my servers to the datacenter at work a few years ago
10:54 PM evilroot: I have a few coloed as well
10:55 PM evilroot: But for storage I kind of need them close
10:55 PM roycroft: yeah, i need local storage for the media server and for my cad files and stuff
10:56 PM roycroft: and i do some development work at home where it's useful to have some local computing power
10:56 PM roycroft: so i have a little half rack cabinet in my library
10:56 PM roycroft: a backup server, the freenas server, and another machine running vmware esxi
10:56 PM roycroft: i use that to build vms for development stuff
10:57 PM roycroft: oh, and i have a 1u machine that i use as my accounting machine
10:57 PM roycroft: my dns server, web server, mail server, and network monitoring server at at the work colo
10:58 PM roycroft: as well as another backup machine that backs up my home machines
10:59 PM pfred1: wow
11:00 PM pfred1: I thought I was bad with 3 PCs
11:00 PM roycroft: i've been doing this for a long long time
11:00 PM roycroft: and i manage an isp
11:00 PM roycroft: so i'm naturally kind of server heavy :)
11:00 PM pfred1: a little bit
11:01 PM Tom_itx: gawd... who just has 3 PCs anymore...
11:01 PM pfred1: that's all I have
11:01 PM pfred1: one upstairs and 2 downstairs
11:02 PM Tom_itx: i've got 5 sitting right here
11:02 PM pfred1: oh i have PCs sitting they don't run though
11:02 PM Tom_itx: not sitting..
11:02 PM Tom_itx: i lost count of the laptops
11:02 PM pfred1: I tied to get one to ru a while back and the disk controller in it was dead
11:03 PM pfred1: it worked when I retired it but it wouldn't start up again I was going to use it as a PDF reader
11:04 PM roycroft: i have enough machines now
11:05 PM roycroft: which makes me wonder what i would do with my mac pro if i fix it
11:05 PM roycroft: it probably makes the most sense to sell it
11:06 PM * evilroot owned an electronics store, and a business that refurbed surplus tech
11:06 PM evilroot: Now I build CNC and robotics systems
11:07 PM pfred1: I need a new PC
11:08 PM evilroot: I do custom builds on occasion
11:08 PM pfred1: I have enough just not one powerful enough for what I'm trying to do now
11:10 PM pfred1: I compiled Qt-5.7.1 yesterday and it took a long time
11:11 PM roycroft: back in the early 80s i once compiled x11r3 on a 386sx with 2MB of ram
11:11 PM roycroft: it took over 4 days to complie
11:11 PM pfred1: now to build qtcreator for it i need a newer version of gcc
11:11 PM pfred1: yeah I built X on a 486
11:12 PM pfred1: it took a long time too
11:12 PM roycroft: and it ran so nicely after that, on my state-of-the art tseng labs 4000 framebuffer
11:12 PM pfred1: about 12 hours?
11:12 PM roycroft: x would take about 5 minutes to load
11:12 PM roycroft: and then i would move the mouse
11:12 PM pfred1: yeah i had to build it because of a bug in my graphics driver
11:12 PM roycroft: and the cursor on the screen would move about 10 seconds later
11:13 PM pfred1: some idiot forgot a x in front of a hex humber
11:13 PM roycroft: i did not run x for long on that machine
11:13 PM roycroft: but i proved that it would run!
11:13 PM pfred1: it messed with my system time something horrible!
11:13 PM * evilroot built X on an HP PERC machine
11:13 PM roycroft: i think i put xenix on that machine later on, and used it as a usenet server
11:14 PM evilroot: In 2000, when that machine was already insanely outdated X.X
11:14 PM pfred1: I had fun with a 386
11:14 PM evilroot: My first comp was a 386
11:14 PM evilroot: That I owned at least
11:14 PM evilroot: 16MHz, I overclocked that bad boy to 20MHz!
11:14 PM pfred1: my first comp was well it was this http://i.imgur.com/yuJeZC3.jpg
11:15 PM pfred1: that's most of it
11:15 PM roycroft: the first machine that i personally owned was an atari st
11:15 PM roycroft: and i got a tandy 3000 shortly thereafter
11:15 PM pfred1: everything but the PSU and the display
11:16 PM roycroft: i think i saw your computer at the goodwill the other day kphred1
11:16 PM pfred1: the whole circuit on the top is just a nEEPROM programmer for the firmware
11:16 PM roycroft: along with a box of spare parts
11:16 PM pfred1: I still have that breadboard
11:16 PM evilroot: pfred1: Wha?
11:16 PM pfred1: I don't break it out that often though
11:17 PM pfred1: it takes up a lot of desk space
11:17 PM pfred1: I was really into solderless breadboarding at one time though
11:17 PM roycroft: i still wire wrap on a regular basis
11:17 PM evilroot: That doesn't look like any kind of computer I've seen
11:17 PM roycroft: which is a mostly last art
11:17 PM roycroft: lost
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cosmacelf.com/news/ first computer
11:18 PM pfred1: I point to point wire up some boards
11:18 PM evilroot: I used to wirewrap like mad haha
11:18 PM evilroot: Though most commonly I would just rats nest stuff
11:18 PM evilroot: Now I can make a PCB almost instantly if I want
11:19 PM roycroft: part of what i do for work is manage a municipal fiber optic network
11:19 PM evilroot: Through a glorious laser cutter hack
11:19 PM roycroft: we have a number of fiber regen huts
11:19 PM pfred1: this just about put me in a padded cell to make http://i.imgur.com/tEf7u88.jpg
11:19 PM evilroot: Child's play haha
11:19 PM roycroft: and all the environmental/security monitoring gear is wirewrapped to the alarm boards on the fiber gear
11:20 PM pfred1: I isolation route simple PCBs
11:20 PM roycroft: there are even wire wrapped rs-232 and 10baset ports on the alarm boards
11:22 PM pfred1: http://i.imgur.com/YyqiE9R.jpg
11:31 PM evilroot: I wanted cheap, fast, but high precision boards and figured there must be an easier and better way than toner transfer/etc
11:31 PM evilroot: And we had a laser
11:31 PM evilroot: So I had the bright idea to spray paint the boards, heh
11:31 PM pfred1: I ruined a couple toner cartriges inmy printer trying to do toner transfer
11:32 PM evilroot: Then lase . . . . laser burns off paint, etch!
11:32 PM pfred1: yewah i want to put a laser head on my CNC
11:33 PM pfred1: I figured I'd use sensitized film
11:33 PM evilroot: Not with a laser, heh
11:33 PM pfred1: why not?
11:34 PM evilroot: First up we're talking infrared, not UV/etc
11:34 PM pfred1: well I'd have to get the right kind of a laser
11:34 PM evilroot: I mean I guess its possible, but the way I mentioned is so crazy easy
11:35 PM evilroot: Spray, laser, etc. Done
11:35 PM pfred1: if you have a laser that burns paint
11:35 PM evilroot: Dude even harvested blu-ray diodes can burn paint
11:35 PM pfred1: I think DVD drives have UV lasers in them?
11:36 PM pfred1: I don't have a bluray drive
11:36 PM evilroot: They're super cheap
11:36 PM evilroot: Also DVD ises infrared
11:36 PM pfred1: yeah the lasers aren't cheap
11:36 PM evilroot: *uses
11:37 PM pfred1: oh it isn't UV?
11:37 PM evilroot: CD red
11:37 PM evilroot: Blu-ray violet
11:38 PM evilroot: Hmm, apparently exposing coated boards is a thing though
11:38 PM evilroot: https://hackaday.com/2017/07/14/laser-exposing-pcbs-with-a-blu-ray-laser/
11:38 PM pfred1: see?
11:38 PM evilroot: Very different than film
11:38 PM pfred1: it just seemed like it should work to me
11:39 PM pfred1: woo I can get a UV laser for like $3 from Mao's toy store
11:40 PM evilroot: For just the diode or the assembly?
11:40 PM pfred1: it looks like a cat toy
11:41 PM pfred1: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-Worldwide-UV-Laser-Pen-Currency-Money-Detector-Counterfeit-Checker-for-ID-Passports-Secure-Document-High/32808060549.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_5570020_10152_10065_10151_10130_5490020_10068_10307_10137_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_5470020_10059_100031_10099_5460020_10338_10339_10103_10102_440_10052_10053_10107_10050_10142_10051_10324_10325_5380020_10326_10084_513_10083_10080_10082_10081_1
11:41 PM pfred1: I didn't say it was the world's greatest laser
11:41 PM evilroot: Oh, that's just a blacklight
11:42 PM pfred1: here's a guy burning a cigarette with a $11.70 one
11:42 PM evilroot: A laser diode does absolutely 0 good without the proper optics
11:42 PM pfred1: it claims it is a Watt
11:42 PM evilroot: Unless your goal is to just set shit on fire at close range, haha
11:42 PM pfred1: yeah some colimination might be nice
11:43 PM pfred1: I imagine it would need to be heatsinked for longer run time
11:47 PM roycroft: a decent "laser" will cost you ONE MILLION DOLLARS
11:47 PM roycroft: anything less is but a mere toy
11:47 PM pfred1: I'm OK with toys
11:48 PM pfred1: a whole setup is pretty expensive though
11:48 PM pfred1: like $140
11:48 PM pfred1: oh $160 with shipping
11:50 PM pfred1: man this laser is burning the living crap out of everything
11:51 PM pfred1: yeah these lasers aren't cheap