#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 05 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:26 AM Deejay: moin
02:39 AM Crom: morning. Just bought the kidlette a 2009 Toyota Camry 4cyl, auto leather, gps, bose sound,
04:01 AM XXCoder: hey
04:01 AM XXCoder: lol weather prediction have changed
04:01 AM XXCoder: its now only tues that will be nightmarish hot for work
04:01 AM XXCoder: yayyy
04:02 AM XXCoder: an know whats wonderful? smoke is back
05:04 AM jthornton: morning
05:05 AM jthornton: its 74f now and the high for today is 77f
05:07 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:15 AM jthornton: I hope with this cooler weather to get the chain link fence up this week if we didn't get much rain last night
05:16 AM XXCoder: tomorrow will be nightmare
05:16 AM XXCoder: 96f ugh
05:22 AM jthornton: bunch of rain around me...
05:22 AM XXCoder: send some
05:23 AM jthornton: I'll email you some
05:23 AM XXCoder: I read about floria will be socked by cat 4 hurricane. :(
05:28 AM jthornton: I don't miss the hurricanes now that I don't live on the gulf coast anymore
05:29 AM XXCoder: wrong side of usa for me
05:29 AM XXCoder: too bad really, global climate change is just making that worse
05:29 AM XXCoder: harvey was so bad because air was very humid so its powering harvey far more than it normally would be
05:29 AM XXCoder: imprecise details but whatever
06:35 AM Tom_itx: 65°F
06:48 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysGIoTsmbUI
06:48 AM jthornton: look at 4:45 at that wrapping tool
06:48 AM jthornton: I can't find one so I guess I'll have to make it...
06:59 AM Tom_itx: http://www.kencove.com/fence/Wire-Twisting+Tool_detail_TWTL.php
06:59 AM jthornton: yup that's it
07:00 AM Tom_itx: shipping will be 2x that
07:00 AM Tom_itx: :)
07:01 AM jthornton: yea I wish amazon had one
07:03 AM Tom_itx: too far below their price point to make a profit
07:05 AM Tom_itx: https://www.amazon.com/Field-Guardian-200366-Hole-Twisting/dp/B0041LIMA4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1504611185&sr=8-8&keywords=fence+Wire-Twisting+Tool
07:05 AM Tom_itx: sorta
07:06 AM Tom_itx: https://www.amazon.com/Zareba-HTTT-Wire-Twisting-Tool/dp/B0079GHBCS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504611185&sr=8-1&keywords=fence+Wire-Twisting+Tool
07:14 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5zX2wVwAA
07:15 AM jthornton: looks like it will take 5 minutes to make one lol
09:44 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:45 AM kb8wmc: hello
09:46 AM IchGucksLive: kb8wmc: long time i since i have seen your nick gere
09:46 AM kb8wmc: yes sir...how have you been?
09:47 AM Wolf__: I don’t use my ham call as a nick, too easy for someone to track me down lol
09:47 AM kb8wmc: rgr that wolf
09:55 AM IchGucksLive: DL5IAW
09:55 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
09:56 AM kb8wmc: .... ..
09:56 AM IchGucksLive: seams that Radio users are cnc Freeks also
09:57 AM cradek_ is now known as cradek
09:57 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:57 AM kb8wmc: it would seem so
09:57 AM Wolf__: kb3qex =) (don’t bother to stalk me I never updated my address)
09:57 AM IchGucksLive: im off doing new construction on a 5 axis
09:57 AM IchGucksLive: Bye
09:58 AM Wolf__: I wish I had something like that to do today… but no, I’m stuck going to the DMV to renew my drivers license
10:01 AM archivist: I just found I got a dud off ebay, but for £10 not too bad
10:02 AM archivist: from talking to the seller yesterday, been left standing too long, needs a clean I think http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Becker-Vacuum-Blow-Pump-57CFM-Type-SV5-190-5/263151340922
10:03 AM Wolf__: doh that happens tho, won’t pump or won’t spin?
10:04 AM archivist: wont spin, I can turn the fan....but its tight
10:05 AM Wolf__: motor rusted?
10:05 AM archivist: something must be but it looks so clean
10:05 AM Wolf__: for the price I would crack that motor open =)
10:06 AM Wolf__: and this looks tempting for that mill i’m getting https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Easson-ES-12C-3-axis-DRO-system-mill-lathe-3-axis-digital-readout-and-3/32783651186.html
10:06 AM archivist: so build bench first or play
10:07 AM archivist: if proper glass scales can linuxcnc later
10:07 AM Wolf__: they are
10:07 AM archivist: or just get 3 scales and use linuxcnc anyway
10:07 AM Wolf__: +$18 each scale upgrade to 1um
10:08 AM Wolf__: if needed
10:08 AM Wolf__: seems pointless for mill I think
10:12 AM Wolf__: scale say TTL output, so that works for cnc conversion?
10:14 AM Wolf__: archivist: http://www.eassoneurope.com/en/page.aspx?63 GS10 or 11
10:19 AM archivist: ttl sure
10:21 AM Wolf__: 1um or 5um in your opinion?
10:22 AM archivist: the accuracy has limits by the look of it so the extra resolution does not do a lot
10:23 AM Wolf__: yeah, also a speed limit diff on the 1 vs 5 um
10:23 AM Wolf__: 20 m/min max on 1um, 60 m/min on 5um
10:24 AM Wolf__: not sure how fast the rapid travel would be on the mill tho w/ 700w servo motors
10:24 AM archivist: but 6 micron accuracy is pretty good for the average worker :)
10:25 AM Wolf__: lol yup, was reading up on them, most suggest that 1um on a mill is waste of $$ because most mills won’t even hold that tight
10:25 AM archivist: +- a rattle
10:26 AM Wolf__: only thing was 1um suggested for lathe cross slide
10:27 AM Wolf__: I’ll probably end up keeping both the mill and lathe manual for a while, and order 2 of those kits, but use the extra scale for a knee + quill on the mill =)
10:27 AM archivist: with a work hardening material and thermal effects, 1um is going to be hard
10:30 AM Wolf__: hmm, scratch DMV trip today, my new rifle just arrived at the gun store lol
10:31 AM Wolf__: I might pick up the work that guy was doing, he told me the other day that most everything he measured was w/ dial calipers lmao
10:35 AM archivist: there is a little lathe in USA for sale, turns 25 meters long 7 dia google "Waldrich Siegen (2007) Heavy Duty CNC Centre Lathe"
10:36 AM Wolf__: only $4mill
10:37 AM Wolf__: I didn’t hit the power ball so I’ll have to pass
10:38 AM archivist: not sure it would fit on the land here, would have to remove the house
10:38 AM CaptHindsight: looks like a nice one
10:38 AM CaptHindsight: lots of the giant lathes i see are pretty beat
10:38 AM Wolf__: I have room for it, but I don’t think my 1 phase 220, 150A house service would spin it
10:39 AM hazzy1 is now known as hazzy
10:39 AM Wolf__: I’ll stick with the 380kg lathe I’m getting lol
10:41 AM CaptHindsight: what is 1 Chinese micron equal to in metric?
10:41 AM Wolf__: 3um I think
10:41 AM Wolf__: lol
10:41 AM archivist: 42 gnats cocks
10:42 AM CaptHindsight: I haven't compared any to trusted glass scales
10:44 AM CaptHindsight: I'd think get 1um to be sure you actually read 5um
10:44 AM CaptHindsight: unless they just interpolate and do so poorly
10:45 AM CaptHindsight: those look similar to http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Digital_Readout_Scale.htm
10:45 AM CaptHindsight: starts in China and gets assembled locally
10:49 AM Wolf__: nope, they just buy the stuff from china and mark it up 200%
10:50 AM CaptHindsight: hehe read the last page of the Chinaco DRO manual http://wdl5.streamhoster.com/hvp/DROPROS/Bolt%20Hole%20Comp.pdf
10:51 AM CaptHindsight: I can be standing right there or a phone call away and they won't ask me to proof read
10:52 AM CaptHindsight: some Chinese pride thing
10:53 AM Wolf__: hell, the first line is pure gold
10:55 AM Wolf__: sadly one of the things I read for a reason to go with DROPROS is they were said to re write the manuals in to a usable state
11:10 AM Todd_Z_: archivist: Are you the one who bought the little DOA Becker blower pump? (I have some experience with those sorts of pumps.)
11:11 AM Todd_Z_: archivist: They generally have 2 failure modes, either the motor bearings fail or they were ran over loaded (too much vac or pressure), causing them to over heat and the roter contact the housing then they sieze up.
11:13 AM Todd_Z_: Archivist: They usually arn't too hard to fix.
11:48 AM Timbo is now known as MyProblem
11:48 AM MyProblem is now known as Timbo
12:11 PM archivist: Wolf__, one running pump :)
12:12 PM archivist: Todd_Z_, just fixed it, bit of grit between impeller and case
12:18 PM phipli: evening
12:18 PM JT-Shop: hey
12:19 PM archivist: chirp
12:22 PM Crom: I like chirp, it's good software for loading stuff into my radios
12:22 PM Crom: But personnaly I prefer Alfalpha
12:31 PM Todd_Z_: archivist: Glad to hear it was easy. I've had some over heat and crash, took them appart, sanded out the galled places so they would spin free, and all better.
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:36 PM archivist: Todd_Z_, looked like some grit was a single line around and a couple of picket up points,, wet and dry, clean up and its good
01:35 PM IchGucksLive: im of
03:31 PM enleth: do you think it's a good idea to use a PID position loop (outputting a velocity signal) with a regular VFD driving a regular 3-phase motor?
03:33 PM enleth: the motor drives head traverse in a traveling head punch press and is now powered by button-activated contactors to enable head positioning by the operator
03:34 PM enleth: obviously, it's heavily geared down so that a human can actually get it into position with just two completely binary buttons
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: please define: good, regular thanks in advance
03:35 PM enleth: which makes me think it should Just Work(tm) with a linear encoder and a VFD
03:38 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: a 3-phase induction motor you'd typically encounter as a spindle drive in a 70s milling machine or lathe, a cheap scalar drive VFD you'd typically use with such a motor to retrofit such a machine
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: where are all those college kids that were trolling here earlier this summer, they have answers for everything
03:38 PM enleth: "good" meaning, well, "you won't regret it too much"
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't the VFD had it's own internal PID running in its controller?
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: had/have
03:47 PM Tom_itx: JT-Shop that guy sure went to alot of trouble just to make that wire bender
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: *blanket apology for grammar mistakes*
03:47 PM Tom_itx: oh poo
03:47 PM Tom_itx: it's monday again
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_itx: even worse, it's already Tuesday
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: how long does it take you to sort out all the random screws, washers, nuts left on the workbench after a project?
03:53 PM Tom_itx: you have parts left over?
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: 1/4-28 vs M6
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: the pile grows along with the project
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: wh/y are M6 washers so much smaller than 1/4"
03:55 PM Tom_itx: cause we make 1/4" washers too big
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: i think so
03:57 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: I've never seen a "regular" VFD implementing a *position* PID
03:57 PM MarcelineVQ: CaptHindsight: best to just drop them into the crucible :D
03:58 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: and AFAIK a scalar drive VFD doesn't really regulate velocity either, that's what a vector drive VFD does
03:59 PM enleth: although I have a feeling that it's not going to be a problem with a heavily geared and absolutely unchanging load
04:00 PM enleth: it's just head traverse, constant weight save for a lightweight punch die and constant mechanical resistance across the whole movement range
04:02 PM enleth: still, I've never used a garden variety VFD within a positioning loop, so I'm just cautious and expecting to get an answer to the tune of "don't do that, you'll get bitten in the ass by [a non-obvious problem description here]"
04:04 PM enleth: maybe it just feels too simple to be true and that makes me nervous, expecting non-obvious problems
04:10 PM Deejay: re
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: when performing maintenance, repair or overhaul is it better to end up with too few or too many fasteners? :)
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: too many means you missed some, too few means you either lost some or put fasteners in where there were none previously
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: i think sometimes engineers just put extra holes in for fun to throw off the know-it-all mechanics
04:13 PM enleth: it can be even worse - when you end up with one screw too many but you see all holes that require this particular fastener length have a screw head sticking out
04:14 PM enleth: and you start wondering if there's one too short somewhere not holding something properly, or one too long, sticking out inside a casting, waiting to catch on a moving part
04:17 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: oh, and that's called a "retaining bolt hole", usually *not* marked as such on the casting
04:17 PM enleth: or transport bolt
04:18 PM enleth: lots of fun when you get a used machine that wasn't re-fitted with those when it got shipped to you
04:18 PM enleth: and you accidentally put a bolt in there during the overhaul
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, mixing same size fasteners with different lengths in the same side of a casting or similar is fun
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: 13 the same, 1 different
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's easier as the designer
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: why i never fix anything
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: I've noticed that with Ikea, often there are 1 of each fasteners left over
04:32 PM enleth: they have packaging machines tuned in such a way that they're much more likely to err on the side of too many fasteners in a box than too few
04:32 PM enleth: it costs them close to nothing to give some customers an extra wood screw
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: or they used 32 of one length fastener in one area and 32 of the same thread but maybe 1/4" different length somewhere else
04:33 PM enleth: it costs a lot to deal with a customer that got one too few
04:33 PM enleth: so it makes sense to bias their errors
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: that is intentionally for the person that refuses to read the instructions
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: but either length fits into both locations
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: only later when you wish to add some trim or accessories it become apparent where they chose wrong
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: Irma is clocking in at 185mph (300kph)!
05:16 PM Deejay: gn8
05:19 PM roycroft: biggest
05:19 PM roycroft: atlantic
05:19 PM roycroft: hurricane
05:19 PM roycroft: ever
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: 1!
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: > 11
05:20 PM roycroft: and ts josé has potential to be really big as well
05:21 PM roycroft: at least category 3
05:21 PM roycroft: and td 13 has just formed in the western gulf of mexico
05:21 PM roycroft: within the past couple hours
05:22 PM roycroft: but it's likely not going to amount to anything but an annoying tropical storm
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: the exactness of this forecast https://s.w-x.co/wu/euro-sep5.png
05:24 PM roycroft: i hope floridians are ready
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: pretty much gets it no matter what
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: have you cooled yet?
05:25 PM roycroft: yeah, although it's too early to forecast it to hit florida, i think most folks are not thinking "if", but "west side or east side of the penninsula?"
05:25 PM roycroft: it's only 27 here today
05:25 PM roycroft: but that's a bad thing
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: F or C?
05:25 PM roycroft: because aqi is astronomical
05:25 PM roycroft: c
05:25 PM roycroft: there's so much smoke
05:25 PM roycroft: aqi was up to 411 a short while ago
05:26 PM roycroft: it's 3pm and it looks like dusk
05:26 PM roycroft: i'm almost expecting the street lights to come on
05:26 PM roycroft: i've had a very difficult time breathing these past four days
05:26 PM roycroft: and can hardly function
05:27 PM roycroft: we've had northerly winds for days, bringing smoke in from the fires in the cascades of oregon and washington
05:27 PM roycroft: now the winds have shifted, but not westerly as anticipated
05:27 PM roycroft: the're southerly/southwesterly
05:27 PM roycroft: and are bringing in smoke from the chetco complex down by the california border
05:28 PM roycroft: there are fires to the southwest, south, southeast, east, northeast, and north of us
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: http://koin.com/weather/webcams/
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.josephoregonweather.com/cams.php
05:29 PM roycroft: it's darker than that here, and the sky is more orange than grey
05:30 PM roycroft: when our aqi hit 320 it was announced that it was the highest reading ever recorded in eugene
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.josephoregonweather.com/nwvis.php I can see it on the Sat views
05:30 PM roycroft: now it's up to 411
05:30 PM roycroft: if it hits 500 that means that nobody should go outdoors for any reason
05:31 PM roycroft: i've never experienced anything like this
05:31 PM roycroft: and i hope i never do again
05:32 PM roycroft: i had a big party on saturday afternoon
05:32 PM roycroft: fortuantely the air quality had improved signficantly right before folks arrived
05:32 PM roycroft: i had prepped all the food and drink ahead of time, except for the paella, which i made at the table
05:33 PM roycroft: but it fatigued me so much just to carry stuff out from the kitchen to the patio that i barely made it through the event
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: http://rammb-slider.cira.colostate.edu/?sat=goes-16&sec=full_disk&x=10168&y=3448&z=2&im=12&ts=1&st=0&et=0&speed=130&motion=loop&map=1&lat=0&p%5B0%5D=16&opacity%5B0%5D=1&hidden%5B0%5D=0&pause=0&slider=-1&hide_controls=1&mouse_draw=0&s=rammb-slider
05:56 PM KimK_ is now known as KimK
06:22 PM Roguish_ is now known as Roguish_shop
06:24 PM JT-Shop: Tom_itx which guy?
06:25 PM Tom_itx: the youtube you posted on making the tool
06:26 PM JT-Shop: ah
06:27 PM JT-Shop: digging though my crap and a unistrut strap will be ideal starting point
06:29 PM Tom_itx: cut it out on the plasma then bend it
06:29 PM Tom_itx: :)
06:30 PM Tom_itx: JT-Shop ordered that MB
06:30 PM JT-Shop: the unistrut strap is already the right thickness and shape just need to bend it a tad
06:30 PM JT-Shop: did you get a M.2 drive?
06:30 PM Tom_itx: yeah i got one coming
06:32 PM JT-Shop: I hope to get 3 terminal posts up tomorrow while it's cooler then 3 tomorrow
06:33 PM Tom_itx: said thursday
06:33 PM JT-Shop: I guess I need to dl the apple software to copy chicken sounds to my old eye phone...
06:33 PM Tom_itx: i'm swapping out the other gigabyte board i've got on --> that pc
06:34 PM JT-Shop: your server?
06:34 PM Tom_itx: naw, it's my all purpose one
06:34 PM Tom_itx: with cad cam, photo stuff etc
06:34 PM JT-Shop: then finger out how to play chicken noise on my bluetooth speakers
06:34 PM Tom_itx: i should be set for a few years i'd think
06:34 PM Tom_itx: TB 960 evo
06:34 PM JT-Shop: should be a screamer, I want to change out my desktop for the same mb
06:35 PM Tom_itx: i'm staying with a gen6 cpu because i want to keep running win 7
06:35 PM Tom_itx: i'll have a spare MB if i need to build another one
06:35 PM Tom_itx: this one isn't that old
06:36 PM Tom_itx: may use it for the video surveylance stuff
06:36 PM roycroft: like these chicken sounds? :
06:36 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKss2pBYQ6Y
06:36 PM JT-Shop: aw man I can't watch at night, not free time... watch in the am
06:36 PM JT-Shop: I want to play some chicken sounds kinda loud to lure the chicken killing dog into my sights
06:38 PM * JT-Shop wanders inside to get comfortable and cook some burgers on the barbie
06:48 PM Tom_itx: JT-Shop, really the only thing i'm gaining is the M.2
06:48 PM Tom_itx: but capability to expand ram and cpu
07:05 PM Vitran: Sunday was working hard, then after a few months of free time wiring and checking wires, I plugged in the control board into the Hardinge! https://i.imgur.com/MGT6Zvh.jpg
07:06 PM Vitran: Then I shorted the power supply, as I was an idiot. I put 24VDC to the 5V pins for both the 7i77 and 7i64
07:06 PM Vitran: Because I'm an idiot
07:06 PM Vitran: Looks like the 7i77 survived and is still working!
07:07 PM Vitran: but the 7i64 I can't seem to connect to it via the RS-422 on the 7i77.
07:07 PM Vitran: I am getting green lights on both boards when I apply 5V
07:12 PM BeachBumPete: Hehehe I feel your pain man I smoked my first 7i77 board doing much the same thing accidentally
07:12 PM Vitran: Do I have any hope?
07:12 PM Vitran: Is there a way to check a board to see if it is healthy?
07:12 PM BeachBumPete: honestly I sent my board in to them and they were able to repair it for me...
07:13 PM BeachBumPete: luckily they are cheap enough that if it is smoked it is not the end of the world
07:13 PM Vitran: Really?
07:13 PM Vitran: I can do that?
07:13 PM BeachBumPete: I dunno but PCW on here is a mesanet basically
07:13 PM BeachBumPete: perhaps he will chime in
07:15 PM Vitran: I'll send them an email and see what they say
07:15 PM BeachBumPete: yeah man they would be the most able to help you and might be able to help you troubleshoot it before you start removing boards..
07:23 PM Vitran: PCW has been talking to me on the forums
07:23 PM Vitran: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/33246-may-have-burned-out-a-7i77-and-7i64-what-can-i-do-to-fix-it#98553
07:30 PM Vitran: I'm heading home, so I will be back in half an hour or so.
11:41 PM Wolf__: archivist: nice lol