#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 25 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:02 AM tiwake: twincreek: no CAM program will do that
12:07 AM tiwake: "trace the middle of text"... it will always trace the outline
12:07 AM tiwake: gotta make your own font
12:07 AM tiwake: I don't even think mastercam will let you do that
12:10 AM Tom_L: use a single line font like i did here: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/engrave1.jpg
12:31 AM Crom: twincreek: inkscape has an extension for single line fonts
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: tiwake: still here
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: till later
02:16 AM Deejay: moin
05:28 AM jthornton: morning
05:29 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:36 AM Deejay: hey
05:37 AM XXCoder: hey dee
05:37 AM jthornton: hey
05:43 AM jthornton: I wonder if I had a coyote in my yard at 4am... something turned on the motion light
05:46 AM XXCoder: or maybe 2 legged coyotes
05:46 AM jthornton: nothing with 2 legs would be off the roost that early
05:47 AM XXCoder: hmm and weights more than few oz lol
06:14 AM TurBoss: what abot the 3 legged ones?
06:14 AM TurBoss: :)
06:14 AM XXCoder: you sure one leg isnt just very long cock?
06:16 AM TurBoss: didn't notice
06:16 AM TurBoss: :P
06:17 AM Deejay: lol
06:38 AM Tom_L: morning
06:39 AM jthornton: yo
06:41 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/screenshots/M19_R10_P1.png
06:41 AM Tom_L: any thoughts on why the spindle won't turn?
06:48 AM jthornton: no clue... seems it should be moving
06:48 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/screenshots/M3_Spindle_on.png
06:48 AM Tom_L: that's what normal M3 looks like
06:49 AM Tom_L: i'll keep diggin
06:49 AM Tom_L: about wore the shovel out though
06:50 AM jthornton: does any pin show the current angle of the spindle?
06:50 AM Tom_L: orient.position
06:50 AM Tom_L: i think
06:51 AM jthornton: after you start an M19 what happens if you just manually turn the spindle a little?
06:52 AM Tom_L: the numbers change a bit but no movement
06:52 AM Tom_L: i may need to set motion.spindle-index-enable but i don't know how to do that
06:53 AM Tom_L: i'll try it in halcmd later today
06:53 AM Tom_L: but in code i'm not sure where to put it
06:54 AM cpresser: the .hal file where you wire up your spindle-encoder. add a setp there?
06:54 AM Tom_L: there is one there for the sync movement stuff
06:55 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/screenshots/sherline.hal
06:55 AM Tom_L: that may not be the most recent but it's fairly current
06:56 AM Tom_L: i can post it here in a bit
06:59 AM cpresser: now that i look at the documentation, it seems like motion.spindle-index-enable is an output
07:00 AM cpresser: I better stop now; i don't know enough about this. most likely my hints are not helpfull
07:01 AM Tom_L: motion.spindle-index-enable is one of the few pins that is bidirectional
07:01 AM jthornton: andy said in a post For M19 to work the spindle needs to be "homed" to the encoder index.
07:01 AM Tom_L: refresh. i posted the current hal and ini files
07:01 AM Tom_L: same directory
07:04 AM Tom_L: motion.spindle-index-enable I/O BIT
07:04 AM Tom_L: and it is tied to the encoder
07:12 AM Tom_L: jthornton, where would i put that though. something like setp or sets motion.spindle-index-enable
07:13 AM Tom_L: off til later..
08:07 AM tumdedum_ is now known as tumdedum
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: hi all ;-)
12:26 PM Tom_L: wow, break the silence will ya
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: 4hr no post
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: lcnc is getting more and more elite
12:27 PM HighInBC: not enough time zones represented here I guess
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: i think the break has come with debian
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: as i see it on youtube
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: the hits fell from 12.04 to wheezy by 70%
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: but it is personel feeling
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: HighInBC: how is it up there winter in view
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: summer returned this days here
12:30 PM HighInBC: It is summer here, almost fall
12:30 PM HighInBC: could be warmer
12:30 PM HighInBC: not sure I understand the question
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: im not shure i asked the right Q
12:32 PM Tom_L: IchGucksLive are you good with spindle orient?
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: are you still fighting thatstill
12:32 PM Tom_L: yup
12:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/screenshots/M19_R10_P1.png
12:32 PM Tom_L: all that and it's still not turning
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: peepsalot: keep save in Austin Texas Harvey is hidding your way
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: tom orient from 2.8
12:35 PM Tom_L: i don't have 2.8
12:35 PM Tom_L: 2.7.11
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: ever since 3D printing took over manufacturing and replaced CNC the channel became quiet :)
12:36 PM Tom_L: i'd rather hang out here than in #reprap thankyou
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: as i see the orent error is there but this shout trigger the spindle motion
12:36 PM CaptHindsight: people new to CNC also seem to want to suffer with GRBL and a *duino before they find out what they really need
12:37 PM Tom_L: IchGucksLive the hal is in that dir too
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: let me read
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: orient mode =1 and you got a Negativ goto bad idee
12:39 PM Tom_L: i tried 0 too
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: does the spindle make M4
12:40 PM Tom_L: yes
12:40 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/screenshots/M4_Spindle_on.png
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: while im reading look at the new "old mashine "we got https://www.maschinensucher.de/vid/3428227.mp4
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: best is the spindle closer change part
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: from Vertical to horizontal and back
12:44 PM Tom_L: better not get in it's way
12:45 PM Tom_L: quite a versatile machine
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: 3500USD
12:47 PM Tom_L: + moving
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: the school has a JohnDerr truck to move things
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: setp scale.0.gain 60.00
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: isent this in ticks as 60*4
12:52 PM Tom_L: iirc that's for the spindle display
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: setp pid.0.maxerror 200 isent this to high
12:55 PM Tom_L: maybe
12:55 PM Tom_L: it's working.
12:55 PM JT-Shop: m19?
12:55 PM Tom_L: i could lower it i suppose
12:55 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, no that's the regular pid
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: it seams to be alright
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: but pid 1 does not connect to spindle on
12:57 PM Tom_L: where should it connect?
12:57 PM Tom_L: isn't motion.spindle-on an output?
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: it's working. ??
12:58 PM Tom_L: not pid1
12:58 PM Tom_L: pid0 does
12:59 PM Tom_L: they both go thru mux2
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: ok to be shure
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: S300 M3 pid 0 is enabled and spindle runs
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: m5 pid0 disabled pid 1 enabled
01:00 PM Tom_L: yes
01:00 PM Tom_L: no, mux2 defaults to pid0
01:01 PM Tom_L: mux2 is switched when pid1 goes active
01:01 PM Tom_L: M19 activates it
01:02 PM peepsalot: IchGucksLive, Austin is pretty far inland, i'm not too concerned
01:02 PM Tom_L: that's why i took screenshots of M3 M4 and M19
01:03 PM peepsalot: also my house is basically on a hill, so water runs off pretty well
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: peepsalot: it will come soon
01:03 PM peepsalot: has anyone here worked with epoxy granite?
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: there is somkind of a miscalculation
01:06 PM Tom_L: should motion.spindle-on go true during orient mode?
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: image showes orient pos 34Deg goto 10deg -282 posi error
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: i think no as it is triggerd
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: tom did you check the signaling by moving the spindle manuell
01:08 PM Tom_L: turning the spindle affects the position and error
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: orient.0 pos error
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: and the pid shoudt move also
01:10 PM Tom_L: iirc it was
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: as i read the system the index needs to be connected
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: line 481
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: pid.1.index-enable
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: otherewise it does not go beond zero
01:19 PM Tom_L: woops
01:19 PM Tom_L: i'll try that
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: pid.0.maxoutput is set to 1000
01:20 PM Tom_L: ~500 rpm
01:21 PM Tom_L: just until i get it turning
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: the image showes positiv move from 34Deg to 10 so it is 336Deg to go on a 2000 ticks encoder
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: 2000/360=5,5tick per deg *3361866 ticks to go
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: limitet to 1000 no move
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: 2000/360=5,5tick per deg *336=1866 ticks to go
01:23 PM Tom_L: isn't that just he pid command to the DAC for voltage out?
01:23 PM Tom_L: the max 1000 limit
01:31 PM IchGucksLive: as i read the maxoutput soudt be set to 0 at spindle tuning
01:33 PM Tom_L: for the purpose of getting the spindle turning, i figued i would set high numbers and limit the output. it is only going to turn one revolution anyway
01:33 PM IchGucksLive: ok
01:34 PM Tom_L: so it snaps to the limit and stays there
01:34 PM Tom_L: i'll refine it once it works
01:35 PM IchGucksLive: so i dont see motion.spindle-speed-out in the halshow does this go to a value
01:36 PM Tom_L: abs.0.in and pid.0.command
01:36 PM Tom_L: 513
01:37 PM IchGucksLive: net spindle-cmd-abs abs.2.out => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.value so the value is to the pwm
01:39 PM Tom_L: yes
01:40 PM IchGucksLive: net velocity-mode motion.spindle-on => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.enable pid.0.enable hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.039.out
01:40 PM Tom_L: 39 is unused atm
01:40 PM IchGucksLive: pwm isent enabled by pid 1
01:40 PM Tom_L: would i need an or2 for that?
01:41 PM IchGucksLive: i think yes
01:41 PM Tom_L: err, pid.x.enable is input
01:41 PM Tom_L: so not from that
01:42 PM Tom_L: motion.spindle-on enables those
01:42 PM Tom_L: that's why i'm wondering if orient is a special mode
01:43 PM samsagaz: guys, how can i check the speed that i can get an stepper running? is possible to calculate an estimated value?
01:43 PM IchGucksLive: but orient needs in someway connect to pwm
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: samsagaz: look into the datasheet
01:44 PM Tom_L: yeah, i'm going to look at it more later today
01:44 PM Tom_L: need to run right now...
01:44 PM samsagaz: IchGucksLive, ok
01:44 PM Tom_L: if you have any more thoughs i'll read later
01:44 PM gloops: samsagaz - is this a pre-build estimate?
01:45 PM samsagaz: gloops, no, i just want to check wich model can purchase to move a X axis with just a diode laser.
01:45 PM JT-Shop: samsagaz: lots of good stepper info on the wiki
01:46 PM samsagaz: JT-Shop, ok!
01:46 PM samsagaz: JT-Shop, wiki about linuxcnc?
01:46 PM IchGucksLive: samsagaz: if yoiu teel the stepepr name we can look
01:47 PM IchGucksLive: tell
01:47 PM JT-Shop: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
01:47 PM JT-Shop: yes
01:47 PM IchGucksLive: samsagaz: lotsa of values are interacting with stepper sped
01:48 PM IchGucksLive: oh late i need to move Gn89
01:48 PM Tom_L: thanks
01:54 PM miss0r: I'm looking for a spindle motor that will do somewhere in the 0-4000rpm range and use somewhere around 4-500watt. I am hoping for something I can control rotation wise. (I am going to use this to drive the spindle on a small cnc lathe
01:54 PM miss0r: Would any of you guys know where to get such a motor?
01:57 PM Crom: if you got a RC 3ph dc motor, speed controller, a couple of double throw relays and a speed reduction gear box of some type...
01:58 PM gloops: control - as in step?
01:58 PM Crom: you could have a reverable motor with good toeque. or think about using a cordless brushless screw driver to drive the headstock
01:58 PM gregcnc: miss0r you have to consider how much torque you want at low speed. This will determine the size of the motor. 500W at 1RPM vs 500W at 4kRPM.
01:58 PM miss0r: adding to the list: control as in positioning(360degrees) so I can use it for threading as well
01:59 PM Crom: that would be adding an encoder as well.. which could be handed on the head stock.
01:59 PM gregcnc: I would just look for a suitable bLDC servo motor
01:59 PM miss0r: gregcnc: absolutly. This is why I am considering if this can be done with a stepper. perhaps if I geared one
02:00 PM Crom: missor jmc-motor.com look at their servo's
02:00 PM Crom: steppers are only good to around 1800 rpm
02:01 PM miss0r: Crom: but gearing a stepper 1:3 could be just what I need.
02:01 PM miss0r: The upside of using a stepper, is I can get a pretty descent touque all the way(ofc. reduced by the gearing), and they are mostly dirt cheap
02:02 PM gloops: how about some kind of dual drive, so you got a normal induction motor running a belt, but also a pulley for a stepper - some physical changeover required but you have option of normal drive or A axis
02:02 PM gregcnc: servo spindle does that already
02:03 PM Crom: look at the closed loop steppers at jmc-motor.com then. I have 3 of their iHSS57-36-20 285ozin closed loop steppers. they have a 425ozin on ebay or aliexpress.. around $125
02:03 PM samsagaz: maybe an offtopic question, which cad/cam software recommend me to work with metal sheets? i want something that let me bend make holes, make laser cuts...
02:04 PM miss0r: Crom: I am reading into it now. thanks
02:05 PM gloops: sams fusion360 does sheet metal, im not sure if it is an option in the free app though
02:06 PM gloops: gregcnc ive not got to servo motors yet lol
02:06 PM samsagaz: gloops, ok, thanks
02:07 PM gloops: https://cadblog.co.uk/2017/02/14/fusion-360-adds-sheet-metal/
02:08 PM samsagaz: currently in an invite only technical preview :/
02:08 PM gloops: hmm
02:10 PM gregcnc: it seems there are several examples of stepper 4th axis/lathe spindle applications on YT
02:12 PM gloops: well a thread cutting lathe should already have spindle speed control of some kind
02:14 PM gloops: those chinese mini lathes use plastic change wheels
02:15 PM gregcnc: that's no problem with linuxcnc. the question is whether a stepper makes a suitable lathe spindle motor. i'm sure it can, but not my first choice
02:17 PM gloops: yes just wondering my way through this, - i dont think it would be a good idea anyway to rely on a non controlled motor to maintain an exact speed during cutting while a controlled axis tries to cut a thread
02:28 PM miss0r: I wonder what the lifespan of a stepper would be if utilized as a spindle... :S
02:29 PM XXCoder: directly or belted? though either isnt good idea anyway
02:30 PM miss0r: I'm thinking belted. I am hoping I can keep it precise enough with a timing belt
02:32 PM miss0r: XXCoder: Why is it not a good idea?
02:33 PM XXCoder: sorry forgot to add disclaimer "I would think..."
02:34 PM XXCoder: steppers would be limited on torque, expecially at higher speeds
02:34 PM XXCoder: and spindle needs as much torque and speed it can get
02:34 PM XXCoder: thats where im thinking where issues would be.
02:35 PM miss0r: That is true. But keep in mind this is a micro lathe we are talking about. It would be doing MAX 20mm stock.
02:35 PM miss0r: as it will be based on the ER32 collect
02:36 PM miss0r: More than likely never more than 12mm stock
02:40 PM miss0r: I guess i'll need to do some calculating
03:12 PM gloops: dont know man, easy to stall a weak motor cutting metal, some force is required
03:26 PM MarcelineVQ: miss0r: what's the stepper advantage for a lathe? precise control for rigid tapping?
03:28 PM miss0r: MarcelineVQ: Regular thread cutting is the idea
03:29 PM miss0r: Like you would on your regular engine lathe
03:32 PM miss0r: This epoxy pour might be going straight to hell... lol. My therman camera limit is 130.5 degrees celcius And it is maxing out on three 'hotspots' in the cast
03:33 PM archivist: miss0r, I have a dc motor on the spindle and an encoder, threads ok, no way I would use a stepper for spindle
03:34 PM miss0r: Whats your reason for not wanting to use a stepper ?
03:34 PM MarcelineVQ: the datasheets I'm seeing reaaaly drop torque, and miss steps, at the step-rate you'd need to get a reasonable rpm
03:34 PM archivist: too slow and liable to stall
03:35 PM miss0r: hmm... I just like the part about total control
03:35 PM archivist: 40 ish slot encoder and linuxcnc is easy to thread
03:35 PM MarcelineVQ: I wonder what servo options there are
03:35 PM gloops: encoder archivist - maintains spindle speed feedback ?
03:35 PM miss0r: alright. So i'm basically just looking for a regular dc motor with some reasonable torque it seems. and a rotor encoder
03:36 PM archivist: miss0r, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_05_06_Leawood/IMG_1240.JPG
03:37 PM archivist: gloops, yes
03:37 PM archivist: the tool follows whatever the spindle does
03:38 PM archivist: if you look at that nut, no safety groove :)
03:38 PM miss0r: ^ that is interresting. I need go get out of here before I get too much epoxy fumes. it seems my airflow is not good enough. See you tomorrow
04:04 PM gloops: see thats why i like the random talk in here, all kinds of stuff comes out and plenty is learned
04:13 PM XXCoder: yep!
04:19 PM gloops: freecad is looking better these days
04:20 PM XXCoder: it works well for me.
04:22 PM gloops: i was getting well into it about a year ago, just had another look and there are quite a few changes
04:22 PM gloops: got the daily build installed
04:22 PM XXCoder: yeah dont use 0.13 default for some distros heh
04:22 PM XXCoder: that sucks
04:24 PM gloops: do you use it for toolpaths as well XXCoder?
04:24 PM XXCoder: sadly no. 0.16 sucks on it and 0.17 is still in works and file save format is unstable.
04:26 PM Deejay: gn8
04:26 PM gloops: goodnight
04:27 PM XXCoder: lol http://earthsky.org/todays-image/photo-sunflowers-confused-solar-eclipse-aug-21-2017
04:28 PM gloops: heh
05:52 PM gloops is now known as Goodlord
06:40 PM Goodlord: spindle encoders arent cheap
06:41 PM Goodlord: how come they dont make mickey mouse $20 spindle encoders like everything else
06:46 PM Goodlord: although..you can make your own
06:46 PM Goodlord: http://7xcnc.com/hardware/encoder/
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_77&product_id=131 nice space saver relays
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: these are nice as well https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_75&product_id=138
09:49 PM Sabotend_ is now known as Sabotender
09:51 PM hazzy2 is now known as hazzy
09:53 PM hazzy: CaptHindsight: Please stop posting that sort a thing. Thanks to you my wallet just got a good bit thinner, and JT's got thicker ;)
10:28 PM Tom_L: ok, i found out a couple things about the orient issue
10:29 PM Tom_L: A. when i turn the spindle manually after issuing the M19 command when it turns either way past the index pulse the spindle direction relay switches
10:29 PM Tom_L: so that part seems to be working ok
10:30 PM Tom_L: the pid needs tuning however there is no output getting to the DAC
10:30 PM Tom_L: the voltage never changes on the pin
10:31 PM Tom_L: in M3 mode at S200 it's right around .8 - 1v
11:34 PM Tom_L: yay, it's working!
11:35 PM Tom_L: still need to tune the pid but it orients fwd or rev
11:36 PM pcw_home: You beat it into submission!
11:36 PM Tom_L: no, i forgot to add the pwmgen.00.enable to both pid enables
11:36 PM Tom_L: so i added an or2 and fixed it
11:37 PM * Tom_L grabs a backup disk....
11:40 PM Tom_L: pcw_home which pid component would make it snap to speed quicker?
11:40 PM Tom_L: for positional
11:42 PM pcw_home: If its close to velocity mode, FF1 and P are the main terms
11:43 PM Tom_L: the numbers seem pretty high as it is
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.Pgain 1000
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.Igain 500
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.Dgain 26
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.FF0 0
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.FF1 150
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.FF2 4
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.maxerror 800
11:43 PM Tom_itx: setp pid.1.maxoutput 2000
11:44 PM Tom_L: just random numbers i picked from the sky
11:44 PM Tom_L: until it moved
11:44 PM Tom_L: now i'll try to figure it out closer
11:45 PM pcw_home: whats the output scaling, RPM?
11:45 PM Tom_L: the pwmgen scale value?
11:50 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/screenshots/sherline.hal
11:50 PM Tom_L: there's the hal
11:50 PM Tom_L: for it
11:54 PM pcw_home: I would expect the the PWM scale would be set so that the PID output is roughly in RPM
11:54 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure i've set that up
11:55 PM pcw_home: (Then in normal running mode FF0 would be 1.0)
11:55 PM Tom_L: maybe that's something i should set?
11:56 PM pcw_home: I think it makes tuning more understandable
11:56 PM Tom_L: the pwmgen.00.scale is 7000
11:56 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure how to go about that yet
11:56 PM pcw_home: is 7000 RPM the full speed?
11:56 PM Tom_L: i'm lucky i've gotten this far
11:57 PM Tom_L: that's what the scale is set to
11:57 PM Tom_L: for the pwmgen
11:57 PM Tom_L: no, it tops out around 5000
11:58 PM pcw_home: I would set the PWM scale to 5000
11:59 PM Tom_L: i would have to retune the main pid.0 if i did