Jul 24 2017
01:52 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:54 AM XXCoder: hey
01:54 AM IchGucksLive: hi XXCoder rain here kids holiday
01:55 AM XXCoder: it was nice and slightly warm day here
01:55 AM XXCoder: went out and around
01:56 AM IchGucksLive: we did a 60ar weat hatvest yesterday in heavy wind
01:57 AM XXCoder: fun
01:58 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: im searching for a font havy bold with outstanding edges for carving
01:58 AM XXCoder: theres a few
01:58 AM XXCoder: like Times?
01:58 AM XXCoder: Ariel Black is very heavy but not fancy font
02:00 AM IchGucksLive: simple times new romen bold will be a good choice
02:02 AM XXCoder: yeah that'd look good
02:06 AM IchGucksLive: i go small and use a 60Deg
02:06 AM IchGucksLive: looks better then bold 90deg
02:06 AM XXCoder: heh I have 30, 20, 15 and 10 degree
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: at one inch
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: diameter
02:07 AM XXCoder: yeah mines much tinier
02:07 AM XXCoder: 4 mm?
02:17 AM IchGucksLive: camotics out preview is good but it is not for a forest dign
02:17 AM IchGucksLive: lets try the full hammer 90deg at 80mm letters height
02:26 AM IchGucksLive: i go for that version
02:27 AM XXCoder: cool. looked great eh
02:29 AM IchGucksLive: http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=117500
02:29 AM XXCoder: that does look nice.
02:29 AM IchGucksLive: in wood even better
02:49 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=117501
02:49 AM XXCoder: yep
02:50 AM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/hs_2.jpg
02:50 AM IchGucksLive: the english town is quite cool
02:52 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off 2 mill
02:52 AM XXCoder: have fun
02:55 AM Deejay: moin
03:28 AM Loetmichel: *sigh* female co-worker just came by "MIICHEL, i am waiting for an important email and it doesent drop... i am SURE the server is acting up again!!!111".. so nice co-worker that i am i log into the server and search 30 min fro the problem until i have the idea to check when she last logged in... friday. "hey, did you by any chance use a local login this morning instead of the server AD login?"
03:28 AM Loetmichel: she: "yes, of course, is that significant?" */sigh*
04:47 AM enleth: so, a replacement Bridgeport spindle transmission decision here - toothed belt, V-belt, multigroove or something else entirely?
04:48 AM enleth: I remember someone mentioning toothed belts are noisy in such an application
05:47 AM jthornton: morning
05:53 AM XXCoder: hey the jt
06:54 AM gonzo_: I replaced the knackered varispeed in my BP with a simple V belt
06:55 AM gonzo_: that runs almost silent, but lits of chatter from the castlated coupling from the back gear to the spidle
06:56 AM gonzo_: the original head looks to have been left out in the weather for quite a while and eveything was rusted bbadly
07:11 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klGpG8dYU7M
08:37 AM archivist: is usps really that expensive for posting abroad?
08:38 AM archivist: ebay tells me $34 for something about 1 oz http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Austin-Healey-MGB-Midget-Sprite-TR3-TR4-Generator-Brush-Springs-NOS-Lucas-227542-/252165223219
08:39 AM frank___: guysss,, stupid question incoming, i need to parametrize my servos but i have linux on the machine pc, and i dont have any laptop to use, is it viable a windows emulation on debian wheezy linuxcnc iso?
08:40 AM archivist: er wot, just use the real thing no laptop
08:40 AM archivist: or rephrase the question including the missing bit
08:41 AM archivist: specifically "parametrize my servos"
08:42 AM frank___: i need windows to operate the panasonic software! :D
08:43 AM frank___: does windows run on a j1800n?
08:43 AM frank___: (motherboard)
08:43 AM archivist: no idea, I jumped off the windaz bandwagon
08:44 AM frank___: lol
08:52 AM Loetmichel: anyone an idea whats the chapest TIG to buy locally (germany) that can do 1mm and 1,5mm sheet aluminium?
08:52 AM Loetmichel: it doesent have to do anything ese, nor live forever, it just has to weld corners of aluminium enclosures reasonably well
08:53 AM frank___: does the manual control on the lcnc interface, (not mdi) work if you have the option of homing first required? the numbers on the screen changed position but the stepper stayed without moving
08:54 AM frank___: loetmichel: i dont know which one would be the cheapest, but AFAIK any small tig welder could do at least 1.5mm sheet of aluminum
08:55 AM frank___: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/tig-amp-chart-aluminium.46382/
08:58 AM Loetmichel: hmmm
08:59 AM Loetmichel: doesent really help me with actual ebay or similar links... i hoped someone has made a similar cheap purchase and can tell me if it will work at all or not.
09:01 AM Loetmichel: i need something that can do welds in alu 1mm and 1,5mm about once each week... and has to live a year or so. not forever and not 8h a day welding.
09:02 AM Loetmichel: s/i need/boss wants
09:03 AM archivist: al runs away a bit quick, may need "some" training
09:04 AM Loetmichel: i did some aluminuum tig back 25 years ago.. i hope thats like riding a bike...
09:05 AM archivist: I used to do aluminium mig, mid 1970s , a while ago
09:07 AM Loetmichel: i DID learn oxy/acetylene welding with copper back in the 80ties... i dont think aluminium is worse than that in terms of "being runny" ;)
09:07 AM frank___: lol
09:15 AM Loetmichel: ho would THAT be copiong with the job? -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/ALU-WIG-SCHWEIsGERAT-200-A-TIG-MMA-HF-INVERTER-AC-DC-PULS-200A-230V-4M-Kabel-/161193291027
09:16 AM frank___: wow thats expensive, didnt knew they were pricy
09:16 AM archivist: shite screen for that money
09:17 AM Loetmichel: i do have a cheap automatic Head mounted screen
09:17 AM Loetmichel: if you have cheaper ones that do AC: i am all ears!
09:18 AM archivist: that screen looks the same as the crap that came with my lidl inverter welder
09:18 AM Loetmichel: yeah, standard china throwaway crap
09:18 AM archivist: they were selling the auto at the same time so I got one
09:20 AM frank___: something with germany written on it must be good
09:20 AM Loetmichel: hrhr
09:20 AM Loetmichel: i think some ingenous chinaman called his company "germany"
09:20 AM archivist: they know how to import from china too
09:20 AM Loetmichel: ... like the "german imported" bearings
09:20 AM Loetmichel: in spindles
09:21 AM frank___: big lol
09:49 AM codepython777: I'm trying to cut carbon fiber on this setup: http://imgur.com/a/RbT6l -- My current problem is the use of double sided tape and the thin aluminum tray creates too much of spring movement. Is there a setup I can build quickly that can help? Any recommendations?
09:54 AM Loetmichel: for one: water or oil and CF is a bad idea.
09:54 AM Loetmichel: it creeps along the fibres by capillary effects and can aid delamination
09:55 AM Loetmichel: i usually mill CF dry and use CA glue to put it on the mill bed. one whack with a hammer from the side afterwards and it is off
09:56 AM Spida: CA = Cyanacrylate?
09:56 AM Loetmichel: yes
09:57 AM Loetmichel: or i use vacuum table if its light milling
09:57 AM Spida: I heard double-sided tape for temporary dancefloors might be worthwhile - it has a more sticky and a less sticky side
09:57 AM Loetmichel: yes
09:57 AM Spida: cpresser: maybe you can tell us some of your experiences with that
09:58 AM frank___: still cant make my stepper motor move crap
09:58 AM Loetmichel: i used that before i had the vacuum table.but if you need maximum precision its not good because it CAN move a few 1/100mm in the glue
10:00 AM Spida: Loetmichel: is the vacuum table more rigid?
10:01 AM Spida: Loetmichel: what kind of middle layer do you use?
10:01 AM Loetmichel: none
10:01 AM archivist: when I used double sided tape, I could bend the part on removal, too sticky
10:01 AM Loetmichel: its 2 pieces of PVC
10:02 AM Loetmichel: 20mm for thebase and 8mm on top of that
10:02 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14682
10:02 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14685
10:02 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14688
10:03 AM Loetmichel: and a ton of nylon screws
10:04 AM Loetmichel: archivist: use heat or (for said dancfloor tape) a bit of soapwater under the part
10:04 AM Loetmichel: gthe glue is water soluble there
10:05 AM archivist: many years ago now, dont do it that way any more
10:05 AM codepython777: Loetmichel: From what I read, CF dry is a bad idea for the human cutting?
10:06 AM Loetmichel: get a good dust collector with a HEPA filter in the vaccum
10:06 AM Loetmichel: or live with the chance of cancer some day
10:07 AM codepython777: Loetmichel: I do, but still - I would rather cut it in water than trust the hepa filter
10:07 AM Spida: codepython777: there are a number of vendors offering shop vacs specifically for CF dust
10:07 AM frank___: is theere a chance that a bad wired stepper motor doesnt move but just holds torque?
10:08 AM archivist: frank___, if it fails to see step or is not enabled
10:08 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8sGEf8Wf8 <- drilling in CF with a dus collector
10:09 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYhICZEsCA <- same machine full view timelapse (shortly before the new owner destroyed it)
10:09 AM JT-Shop: anyone want an electric forklift? local pick up only lol
10:11 AM frank___: i need to check if it fails to see step, but i can enable/disable the motor throu linuxcnc, which would tell me that the 7i76 step dir outputs are fine?
10:11 AM archivist: a scope shows if signals are there or not
10:14 AM frank___: can it be done with halscope?
10:15 AM codepython777: Spida: link please
10:16 AM codepython777: Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8sGEf8Wf8 - dust collector - is the white plastic part a dust collector?
10:16 AM archivist: halscope can see internal nets you may need to see external reality
10:21 AM frank___: thats a problem i dont have a scope,, i will try to see if changing wires fix it.. idk
10:22 AM Loetmichel: codepython777: the white part is only the "glide shoe" made of POM.
10:23 AM Loetmichel: the dus collector looks like this: (just not entirely out of perspex) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4287&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:24 AM Loetmichel: the shoe is on a telecope with 2 layers of perspex inside and can move in and out
10:27 AM archivist: frank___, halscope cannot see missing or incorrectly wired pull ups etc
10:27 AM archivist: or optos not connected correctly
10:28 AM frank___: but what are the chances of a bad 7i76?
10:28 AM archivist: from lurking in here for 10 years, very small to 0
10:29 AM archivist: disclaimer, I dont have one so not biased
10:31 AM codepython777: Loetmichel: Is that something one buys?
10:31 AM codepython777: I'm in the US, perhaps I can try to buy that?
10:32 AM Loetmichel: i made them myself. i dont know if thats something you can buy
10:32 AM frank___: archivist: exactly,
10:33 AM Loetmichel: codepython777: its not hard
10:33 AM frank___: i dont know how to proceed really
10:33 AM codepython777: Loetmichel: I made one that was easier to make
10:34 AM Loetmichel: just a few sheets of perpex/plastic and a bit of drawing circles and elipses if you already hae a CNC mill
10:34 AM archivist: frank___, but, i am an electronics engineer so I trace the signal from inside to outside
10:36 AM archivist: frank___, if skilled in hal you could use an input as your real scope, but you must protect it from dangerous voltages, real scope is almost unbreakable
10:37 AM archivist: you can use an LED on the step pin to indicate
10:40 AM Spida: codepython777: https://www.kaercher.com/de/professional/sauger/nass-trockensauger/sicherheitssauger/nt-75-1-tact-me-te-h-16672940.html this one is marketed to be good for asbestos
10:42 AM frank___: archivist: changed wires, it moved!
10:42 AM frank___: bad news, it only moved about 1/4 of what it should
10:42 AM archivist: trivial, adjust scaling
10:42 AM frank___: and erratically, probably still bad wiring, i tried series
10:43 AM frank___: it moved, 3 steps, lost 2 and then moved 3 steps again.. etc
10:43 AM frank___: but i calculated the scaling and it should be correct
10:43 AM archivist: erratically can mean not driving correctly, I have seen levels incorrect on chinese bobs
10:44 AM codepython777: Loetmichel: http://community.carbide3d.com/t/machining-carbon-fiber-on-the-shapeoko/2261
10:44 AM frank___: you mean the driver? sorry, i dont understand what "not driving properly means"
10:45 AM archivist: the signal to the step input
10:46 AM frank___: but i have a 5i25+7i76
10:47 AM archivist: model number dont meant you did it right. I cannot know what the step in to the driver needs
10:50 AM Loetmichel: codepython777: i dont think much of the carbon fibre dust at all... i even milled spare copter parts on a multicopter convention out of my cars back: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12691&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:51 AM Loetmichel: camping site next to the soccer field where we flew the "drones"
10:56 AM codepython777: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KSTUYJA - I am using this - no hepa filter from what I can tell
10:58 AM Loetmichel: can you put it outside away from the entrance?
10:59 AM Loetmichel: or put a few inches of water in it prior to start milling?
10:59 AM Loetmichel: (or both?)
10:59 AM Loetmichel: as i said earlier: i dont care that much about the remote possibility of lung cancer, but other may differ there
11:02 AM codepython777: I was looking for hepa filter for it
11:08 AM frank___: how can i change the manual control (f3) jog speed? i've changed the .ini max speed and accel for z axis but still see 60mm/m on f3
11:19 AM frank___: ok i did it on ini,
11:19 AM frank___: still cant get the motor to move what it should
11:19 AM frank___: it moves 1/8 of the distance it should and in a very stiff manner,
11:25 AM frank___: anyone knows where can i find a page explaining where to get the stepper motor wires correctly?
11:25 AM frank___: i dont think the manual scheme is correct
11:39 AM jdh: how many wires?
11:40 AM jdh: for 4 wwire steppers, the pairs will have continuity
11:49 AM frank___: jdh: 8 wires
11:49 AM spowell_ is now known as spowell
11:51 AM JT-Shop: frank___: sounds like you have 8 times the proper steps per unit in your ini file
11:52 AM frank___: i've checked, the driver outputs 400steps/rev and i have a 5mm per turn ballscrew, i scaled 80steps per unit..
11:52 AM jdh: national instruments has a stepper wiring guide
11:53 AM frank___: and the motor moves between steps in a very stiff way, like if phases are shorted?
11:53 AM frank___: will check
11:54 AM jdh: heh. for 8, it says to find proper docs
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
11:54 AM frank___: hi from here
11:54 AM frank___: :D
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: hi frank___
11:55 AM IchGucksLive: why dident you go for a timingbelt 20/25 to solfe to best speed at max torqe by best precicion
11:55 AM IchGucksLive: you got a 4/5 gap meaning 1,25 gear
11:55 AM frank___: who me?
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: so 400steps meets 5mm
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: 400*1,25 500meets 5 0,01mm
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: ;-) best to go i use them al the time
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: and on your setup its at 12M/mn
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: 7i76
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: duall drivven
11:57 AM frank___: i might do it in the future, but for now and the Z axis use, it will be fine,
11:57 AM frank___: i just want it to work like it should
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: 8 wirers means 2 are briged at eatch phase
11:59 AM frank___: i might try the phase short method
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: up to you
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: dont mess up on L1-L4 to A+A- B+ B-
11:59 AM frank___: on what?
11:59 AM frank___: lol
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: losing torqe speed and lots of steps
12:00 PM frank___: well that might be it..
12:00 PM frank___: actually im having lots of torque by the looks of it, and lost steps
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: do you got a wire out from the steppers
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: so you can grep the right L
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: or did you meter the oms
12:01 PM frank___: whats L?
12:01 PM frank___: i tried the schematics..
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: there are 4 L inide your steppers
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: Windings
12:02 PM frank___: oh
12:02 PM frank___: a wire out means schematic?
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: do you got and can tell the numbers on the stepper
12:03 PM frank___: scheme* of wires-colors
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: oh if you got one it shoudt be clear
12:03 PM frank___: thats the one i tried
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: and therfor no steplos
12:03 PM frank___: but thats what im getting :D
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: can you look on the numbers maked on the steppers to find the right wire scheme
12:05 PM frank___: no numbers
12:05 PM frank___: only colors
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: it shoudt say somthing like 23H
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: H for Hybrid use
12:07 PM frank___: http://lineartec.com.ar/catalogos/19Fulling.pdf FL86STH80-4208B
12:07 PM frank___: thats the motor
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: soso nema 34
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: Hybrid 4A
12:07 PM frank___: yep
12:08 PM JT-Shop: frank___: read andy's post here about 8 wire steppers https://forum.linuxcnc.org/16-stepconf-wizard/29617-pacific-scientific-driver-new-motor-issues
12:08 PM frank___: i've set the current on the driver to max 3.2 amps as per -the company that i bought it from- instructions ( its series conection)
12:11 PM archivist: parallel has more speed
12:13 PM frank___: thanks jt for the link, ill im going to try that right away. *i knew i didnt had to connect everything with the molex connectors right away -_-*
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: frank___: RED/Blue as A+ / YEL Black as A- / WhiteBrn as B+ / OrangeGreen as B-
12:14 PM frank___: what type of connection is that?
12:14 PM frank___: i've already tried to connect the motor per the manuals instructions, and it works poorly
12:16 PM archivist: first attempts should be slow, and not much acceleration
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: frank___: paralell high torqe low speed < 30rev/sec at 4,2A
12:22 PM frank___: they've told me that series is high torque low speed
12:22 PM frank___: and parallel more torque and faster
12:22 PM frank___: what a mess
12:23 PM archivist: frank___, they are right
12:24 PM archivist: you will find the same elsewhere on the net as well
12:25 PM Loetmichel: frank___: thats not entirely correct: series means you need the designated current to have full torque. but it will need twice the voltage to get it flowing, meaning at high frequency the current will fall earlier. In parallel you will need double the current for the same torque but at nominal voltage so the stepper can rev up more because the curren/torque falls down at a higher frequency
12:25 PM archivist: reason is inductance and rate of change of voltage
12:26 PM archivist: you can run high voltage in parallel as well, hence the much increased speed
12:26 PM Loetmichel: so if your driver chips can provide twice the rated current of the stepper you are better with parallel, else you need to do series for full torque
12:30 PM frank___: loetmichel: excuse my ignorance, but designated current means full amps per phase current?
12:30 PM frank___: my stepper is 4.2 amps per phase
12:30 PM Loetmichel: yes
12:30 PM frank___: should i set driver max output to 3.2?
12:30 PM frank___: as the company that sold me told me
12:31 PM Loetmichel: if you put the 2 windings per phase in parallel your drivers need to provede 8.4A per phase
12:31 PM Loetmichel: for full torque
12:31 PM Loetmichel: and your driver is 3.2V?
12:31 PM Loetmichel: 3.2A max?
12:32 PM Loetmichel: then i would use serial wiring and live with the slower speed
12:32 PM Loetmichel: IF you need every bit of torque you can get
12:32 PM frank___: my driver is 6 amps max
12:32 PM frank___: my motor 4.2 per phase
12:32 PM frank___: but my ac transformer is 60v at 5 amps
12:33 PM frank___: idk if i should do full 4.2 amps series connection or 3.2 amps series
12:33 PM BitEvil is now known as speedevil
12:33 PM frank___: tthe axis withe the stepper motor wont be subject to high speeds thou
12:33 PM frank___: its the Z, so more torque is just fine
12:33 PM frank___: on the low speed
12:34 PM speedevil is now known as SpeedEvil
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: frank___: why dident you go at 48V 18A
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: thereare cheep PSU out
12:40 PM frank___: its just 1 stepper motor
12:40 PM Loetmichel: frank: the steppers will stay within parameters at 4.2A series or 8.4A parallel
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: ok then its fine
12:40 PM Loetmichel: your transformer may develop a slight fever though ;)
12:40 PM frank___: hehe
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: the driver shoudt have also 3.7A RMS
12:41 PM frank___: is that a concern? one stepper on Z without much movement (yes holding torque takes most of the current)
12:41 PM frank___: for the transformer i mean
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: no you may got DIP 4 to full power
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: so no down and up is used
12:42 PM frank___: sorry didnt understand
12:42 PM frank___: the driver input is ac thou
12:42 PM frank___: 18-80v
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: modern Drivers got a Dip switch for lowering the Amps on 1sec off
12:43 PM frank___: oh yes , this one has that :D
12:44 PM frank___: i think about half the current
12:44 PM frank___: i have no multimeter around to check stepper phases T_T
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: building a cabinet without multimeter is a great risk
12:48 PM jdh: multimeters are free at harbor freight . worth at leasy twice that
12:49 PM frank___: lol
12:54 PM pcw_mesa: I threw a bunch of those away
12:54 PM pcw_mesa: they are worth less than nothing
12:57 PM frank___: these?
12:57 PM frank___: https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-640014842-el-mejor-tester-multimetro-digital-y-red-profesional-nisuta-_JM
12:58 PM frank___: here they charge you 30 bucks for that shit
12:58 PM frank___: i know, how about a continuity test with a 9v battery and a led?
12:58 PM frank___: throw the stepper phases
12:58 PM frank___: to figure out which are paired
01:11 PM lunada: hi
01:12 PM frank___: okey, bad and good news, the motor color scheme was okey, meaning it wasnt a bad wiring problem
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: hi lunada
01:12 PM frank___: still dont understand why i lost so many steps
01:12 PM frank___: the motor turned 1/8 of what it should
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: frank___: only on Z
01:14 PM frank___: its the only stepper
01:14 PM lunada: I'm assuming the card is bad, but in the middle of a run, my toolchanger started rotating by itself. I tracked it down to the 7i77..... the pin in question has 18v when it should be low. high should be 24v. is there any other possibility besides a dead 7i77? I checked it with nothing connected, and it seems to be false when i check it in hal meter
01:14 PM frank___: the servos still need to be parametrized
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: so the G-force may rip up your ACC
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: thats why i use timingbelts
01:14 PM frank___: but it losese steppers both sides
01:14 PM frank___: not only when going up
01:15 PM frank___: like it should
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: you shoudt start at 40VEL and 80 ACC
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: that 2400mm/min
01:15 PM frank___: and motors were really stiff
01:15 PM frank___: im getting really frustrated
01:15 PM frank___: bad driver?
01:15 PM lunada: frank, perhaps noise? is your step and dir wiring running near any ac power?
01:16 PM lunada: i had that happen until i switched to cat5 wire
01:16 PM pink_vampire: hi
01:16 PM frank___: not really,
01:16 PM frank___: and its shielded
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: lunada: twistet pair is always a real brekthrue
01:17 PM lunada: yep
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: as special as puls mode
01:17 PM frank___: its shielded cat5e
01:17 PM lunada: did you check your step output with a scope?
01:18 PM frank___: between 7i76 and steper driver
01:18 PM frank___: dont have one :/
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: he does not even own a meter
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: D=138
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: d0138
01:18 PM lunada: microphone jack on a pc and Audacity? lol
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: https://www.banggood.com/DSO138-DIY-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-Electronic-Learning-Kit-p-969762.html
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: cool scoping
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: 5usd more for monted ones
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: solderd
01:21 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EctuSTL7-w
01:22 PM pink_vampire: the rails and the machine is almost pure junk, but the results are stunning!
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: its the tool that makes the pcb
01:24 PM lunada: i made a scope for 5v stuff with a headphone jack on my laptop once... good enough to see a square or sine wave to see if it's got noise
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: ans as you see the airflow cooling
01:24 PM pink_vampire: what spindle they use?
01:25 PM IchGucksLive: the noice and the clamp say ing tooth airtool
01:25 PM pink_vampire: http://wegstr.com/cnc-milling-machine-wegstr
01:25 PM pink_vampire: this is the machine
01:26 PM pink_vampire: http://wegstr.com/Spindle-11000-rpm
01:27 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: my new intown supply lady got this at 20usd
01:27 PM IchGucksLive: https://werkzeugfee.de/17-tlg-MICRO-Druckluft-Schleifer-Set-3mm-Spannzange-1-4-Mini-Stabschleifer-Sat
01:28 PM IchGucksLive: its a car store that got a post office and an importexport shop
01:29 PM pink_vampire: i just amazed by the fact of the machine the solder mast to perfection.
01:29 PM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/pcb_milling.jpg
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: cutt with 0,6mm tool
01:30 PM pink_vampire: the use much much smaller tool
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: at double the speed as in video
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: i got no short tool as they are expensive
01:35 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: http://www.ebay.de/itm/PCB-CNC-End-Mill-Milling-Drill-Bit-Fresa-Fresado-Cortadora-Final-Molinos-Extremo-/381468318616
01:35 PM pink_vampire: now i have 0.8mm
01:36 PM pink_vampire: so 0.6mm not going to make any change.
01:36 PM IchGucksLive: agree
01:36 PM IchGucksLive: up to 1mm is is cheep
01:36 PM IchGucksLive: and on 1.27mm E-path it does not mather
01:37 PM IchGucksLive: on 0,6mm Epath i use 30deg
01:39 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: 1mm ones 10pcs 10USD http://www.ebay.de/itm/10-Stuck-1mm-x-3-1mm-x-8mm-Schaftfraser-Fraser-End-mill-Endmill-fur-CNC-PCB-/280900286655?hash=item4166f638bf:g:6vsAAOSwEzxYaU~U
01:41 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: this are the tinyest ones you can get http://www.ebay.de/itm/10-Stueck-0-2mm-x-3-1mm-x-4mm-Schaftfraeser-Fraeser-End-mill-Endmill-fuer-CNC-PCB-/290727821759
01:41 PM IchGucksLive: but be aware its tiny
01:41 PM IchGucksLive: ,2
01:41 PM IchGucksLive: at 4mm length
01:42 PM pink_vampire: but my spindle is just 1000 rpm
01:42 PM IchGucksLive: you need to ad 2 zeros
01:42 PM IchGucksLive: even Airtool at 54000 is quite slow
01:43 PM IchGucksLive: ok at 100mm/min it is goiing to work
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: at 0,1mm depth
01:44 PM pink_vampire: mmm
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: GN8 im off
01:44 PM pink_vampire: night
01:44 PM m0n5t3r: for PCBs 0.1mm is quite a lot, the standard copper thickness is 0.035mm AFAIK
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: m0n5t3r: table tilt 0,05
01:51 PM m0n5t3r: something something matrix probe and compensate for bow / tilt (although I would use double stick tape to force the thing flat - it was fine when drilling holes and milling the perimeter manually on a Proxxon MF70, should work for CNC as well)
01:58 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:59 PM seb_kuzm1nsky is now known as seb_kuzminsky
02:06 PM frank___: pcw_mesa: oh boy.. you saved my day peter, thanks for answering me on the forum about my problem.. you make it look so easy.
02:06 PM frank___: any advice on fine tuning stepper timing?
02:07 PM pcw_mesa: you mean velocity and accel settings?
02:08 PM frank___: DIRSETUP = 1000 DIRHOLD = 2500 STEPLEN = 5000 STEPSPACE = 2500
02:08 PM frank___: those i have right now
02:08 PM frank___: im b33felix on the forum :D
02:08 PM frank___: i can get the axis up to 3700mm/m
02:09 PM frank___: then i see a joint error on the lcnc screen
02:09 PM pcw_mesa: Unless the timings limit your maximum speeds I would use double the drives minimum values
02:09 PM frank___: (on higher speeds)
02:10 PM frank___: i just dont know how to translate which is which parameter
02:10 PM pcw_mesa: if you change the maximum speed you need to increase the stepgens max velocity as well (so its always at least 25% higher than the machines maximum velocity)
02:11 PM frank___: i have to check that
02:15 PM pcw_mesa: as a good generic setting for step drives I would use 10000,10000,5000,5000 for dirsetup, dirhold, steplen, stepspace
02:15 PM pcw_mesa: this will limit you to a bit lower than 100000 step/sec or about 1800 RPM with 1/16 ustep ratio
02:15 PM pcw_mesa: (usually the stepmotor/drive will not have usable torque at 1800 RPM so this limit is not a real issue)
02:23 PM frank___: ofcourse, i would be really happy with 800 rpm
02:24 PM frank___: its a short z axis
03:20 PM mrme: have i seen that correctly that linuxcnc can drive an bldc servo directly with the mesa fpga cards with just 3 half bridges which do the overcurrent protection and thats it?
03:20 PM mrme: if that would work it is great then i could use the bldc servos i have without any expensive drives
03:21 PM lunada: pcw_home, i'm the one who called earlier about the 7i77... i had an empty output so i just used that one and it works now.
03:21 PM lunada: still have to check the voltage.
03:25 PM mrme: pcw_mesa am i right that i can drive bldc servos with just half bridges with an 5i25 i have? does the 7i39 more than prepare the hall and encoder signales and drive the 3bridges with each its own pwm signal?
03:29 PM pcw_mesa: Yes you can drive 3 phase BLDC motors with just 3 /2 bridges using ethe 3 phase PWM gen
03:32 PM mrme: pcw_home but is it possible to do a current sense for the current mode drive? is there any way for that?
03:32 PM pcw_mesa: the 7I39 has current limit and logic/deadzone timing so only needs 3 PWM signals
03:32 PM pcw_mesa: The 3 phase PWM gen can drive top and bottom bridge transistors and has deadzone timing
03:32 PM pcw_mesa: _but_ that ends up using a fair number of pins
03:33 PM mrme: can i use the 3phase pwm with just 1 pwm signal per phase when i use mosfet drivers with internal deadtime? i would use the ir2184
03:33 PM mrme: then i would need 3 pwm signals and 1 enable
03:33 PM pcw_mesa: Probably
03:33 PM mrme: and then 3pins for the hall sensory and 2pins for the encoder?
03:33 PM mrme: the index is not really needed i think?
03:34 PM mrme: how about the current sense is it possible to use 2 serial ad converters
03:34 PM pcw_mesa: index is needed for homing to index
03:34 PM mrme: 2 that i can sample both phases at same time
03:35 PM mrme: and if i use a converter with 3 channels i can do current sense for 3 servos
03:35 PM pcw_mesa: normally a single simultaneous convert A-D is used
03:35 PM mrme: pcw_home overcurrent protection of course in the drive
03:36 PM mrme: but if i wanna drive the bldc with sinusoidal current i need a way to do the current sense right?
03:36 PM pcw_mesa: but if you are going to go to all that trouble and design and isolation you are probabyl better of using a STMBL
03:36 PM mrme: or i use a small microcontroller with does currrent sense for the drive
03:36 PM mrme: and i2c or any other adressable bus
03:36 PM mrme: that i dont need as many pins for 3 bldc
03:37 PM pcw_mesa: I2c is not really suitable (hard to isolate)
03:41 PM mrme: uart
03:41 PM mrme: is something like that possible?
03:42 PM mrme: or does the mesa card dont care about the current?
03:42 PM LeelooMinai: Any idea what a "self-storing screen" on a storm door is?
03:44 PM pcw_mesa: STMBL uses a UART
03:44 PM mrme: pcw_home yes stmbl of course
03:44 PM LeelooMinai: A, nm, found it - it retracts into the frame somehow.
03:45 PM mrme: but is there anypossibility with the mesa card and firmware?
03:45 PM mrme: how many io does the 5i25 have?
03:45 PM mrme: cause if i could use just one serial connection for the current of all 3 drives
03:46 PM mrme: it would be great
03:46 PM Todd_Z: Screen door https://youtu.be/ln2vlmswv8E
03:48 PM mrme: the current regulation for the svpwm has the mesa card to do right?
03:48 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm
03:49 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: Still don't know what self-storing in this context means:/
03:49 PM LeelooMinai: Sled-closing or what?
03:50 PM Todd_Z: The screen is rolled up inside the frame, as you pull down/up the window the screen moves with it.
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: Er, but those doors in the video don't have a screen...
03:51 PM LeelooMinai: Todd_Z*
03:51 PM Todd_Z: When the dude pulls down the window the screen is attached to it at the top.
03:51 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, ok, maybe I missed it - ok, thx
03:54 PM pcw_mesa: mrme: You could save yourself a lot of trouble by taking the STMBL design/firmware and building a version with 80V MOSFETS
03:56 PM mrme: pcw_home i have seen the 7i39 and then i got the idea linuxcnc could controll that
03:56 PM mrme: i wanted to give ti instaspin a try first?
03:57 PM pcw_mesa: linuxcnc can control a 7I39 but only in voltage mode
03:58 PM mrme: is this a problem?
03:58 PM mrme: does it have any disadvantages?
03:59 PM mrme: i think the torque is not as smooth as in current mode right?
03:59 PM pcw_mesa: the main disadvantage is that linuxcnc must do the commutation
04:00 PM pcw_mesa: so you my need a 4KHz servo thread
04:02 PM mrme: what a commutation way does it? isnt it possible to do that with the fpga?
04:02 PM mrme: softdmc does that right?
04:02 PM pcw_mesa: its possible and softdmc does it that way
04:05 PM pcw_mesa: actually softdmc does it in software but at up to 50 KHz sample rate so there is not any significant commutaion lag
04:10 PM mrme: but?
04:10 PM mrme: isnt it possible to let softdmc run on a 5i25 for 3 servos?
04:11 PM Deejay: gn8
04:17 PM Roguish: hey all. has anyone have experience with this: https://www.tormach.com/product_tts_passive_probe.html
04:19 PM mrme: pcw_home the sce
04:20 PM mrme: schematic from stmbl is quite horrible ... there were used different labels and lable changes and many stuff like that.. i wanted to build a low voltage stmbl some time ago.. but there its quite hard to follow the schematic
04:27 PM Spida: codepython777: https://www.kaercher.com/de/professional/sauger/nass-trockensauger/sicherheitssauger/nt-75-1-tact-me-te-h-16672940.html this one is marketed to be good for asbestos
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: a Schmutzsauger!
04:40 PM Loetmichel: Spida: you dont want to know the price though ;)
04:40 PM Loetmichel: aeh codepython777
04:41 PM codepython777: Spida: Thanks
04:41 PM codepython777: Loetmichel: I am just assembling myself a copy of this: http://community.carbide3d.com/t/machining-carbon-fiber-on-the-shapeoko/2261
04:41 PM codepython777: lets hope it works
04:42 PM Loetmichel: even idf it does: i wouldnt trust the parts afterwards with any significant load.
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: puts the cutting are under wasser, clever
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: codepython777: cools and keeps the dust away
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: flood coolant would work as well
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: with fewer bubbles
04:56 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: and delaminates any carbon firbe/glass fibre board eventually
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: the water?
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: what are they using for epoxy? Sunlight will do it in faster.
05:01 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: water with detergent or oil with emulgator will seep into/along the fibres
05:01 PM Loetmichel: capillary
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: cheapskates
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: thats the problem with the cf prepreg maker
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: if you're stuck wit that brand of cf sheet then you could bake it after if you use just water
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: in fact a properly sourced epoxy will have no problems with oils or surfactants
07:58 PM Roguish: hey, can anyone comment on this latency. http://i.imgur.com/YgXbsBZ.png
08:00 PM LeelooMinai: Roguish: I think when I did test on mine it was 6000 or so.
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: planning on software stepping?
08:00 PM Roguish: no
08:01 PM Roguish: real servos.........
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: then it's fine
08:01 PM Roguish: mesa board
08:01 PM Roguish: that's the new stretch .iso with master installed from a deb.
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: your servo time will be 1000uS by default
08:02 PM LeelooMinai: Is Stretch supported by now?
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: just for fun you could try turining off all power management in the BIOS
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: also kill any virtualization
08:03 PM Roguish: it's a simple Asrock Q1900M
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: 43000nS when you have a 1,000,000nS servo period is not a problem
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: I donno what cpu and chipset that is by the model number
08:04 PM Roguish: quad core J1900
08:05 PM CaptHindsight: http://ark.intel.com/products/78867/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J1900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_42-GHz
08:06 PM Roguish: looks right.. nice board, boots fast.
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: you should kill APM and virtualization anyway just in case it goes nuts and goes over 1mS someday
08:07 PM Roguish: thanks. i'll check on it.
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: BIOSes are typically broken
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: APM is broken
08:08 PM CaptHindsight: the avergae user never notices but with real time it styands out
08:32 PM Tom_L: LeelooMinai, http://linuxcnc.org/2017/07/19/LinuxCNC-2.7.10/
08:33 PM Tom_L: Roguish, i had decent numbers on my asrock board
08:33 PM Tom_L: with stretch
08:33 PM Tom_L: horrible on the D525
08:33 PM Roguish: cool thx
08:36 PM MrHindsight is now known as captHindsight
08:37 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: Cool - one more comp to upgrade...
08:37 PM LeelooMinai: Yesterday I had to make a spreadsheet of all my PCs and what hardware is inside them, because I no longer had any idea...
08:39 PM LeelooMinai: Does this build have the nativecam-thing packaged?
08:39 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure if they got that in
08:40 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe 2.8 then
08:40 PM Roguish: have you seen the other new gui? 'hazzy'
08:40 PM Tom_L: i'm saying, i don't know
08:41 PM LeelooMinai: Hazzy Wazzt Was A Bear
08:41 PM Tom_L: no, did you load it?
08:41 PM LeelooMinai: Wazzy&
08:41 PM Roguish: just saw it in the forum.
08:42 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, touchscreen.
08:42 PM LeelooMinai: Looks ok more or less
08:43 PM Roguish: I like it. not too glitzy
08:44 PM LeelooMinai: I will probably try it, when I get to the point of connecting the touchscreen monitor I got.
08:46 PM LeelooMinai: My first thought was "it's not ugly", so it's a good sign, considering linux.
08:47 PM LeelooMinai: A bit simplistic and not sure about those round corners, but could be worse I guess.
08:50 PM Tom_L: you're welcome to write another one
08:51 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: Cannot write all the software for myself - I would not be able to do anything else:)
08:52 PM LeelooMinai: I used to do that in the past - with my OCD, not a good idea.
08:53 PM jdh: CDO
08:53 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, in fact, I need to find some software for an inspection camera that allows for measurments, etc.
08:55 PM Tom_L: http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/centrecam.htm
08:57 PM LeelooMinai: Meh, not free even
08:58 PM Tom_L: that wasn't part of your initial criteria
08:58 PM jdh: seems to be windows
08:58 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: That's a given:)
09:03 PM jdh: some russian? guy here used to have a webcam based sort of vision thing for linux
09:19 PM BeachBumPete: Hey Folks howzitgoin?
09:23 PM BeachBumPete: that good eh hehe
09:27 PM jdh: exactl
09:28 PM BeachBumPete: hey jdh whats up man!
09:28 PM jdh: another day north of paradise. you?
09:28 PM BeachBumPete: meh just been workin' my azz off for the most part
09:29 PM jdh: work is good
09:29 PM BeachBumPete: yeah I suppose
09:29 PM BeachBumPete: making parts tonight
09:29 PM jdh: keeps me from sitting around, being poor.
09:29 PM jdh: that poor shit sucks
09:29 PM BeachBumPete: I did manage to get the damn gunstock program finished and tested like 3 times LOL
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: finally turned it loose on the blue sky laminate blank this weekend
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: yeah poor shit indeed does LOL
09:42 PM BeachBumPete: http://imgur.com/a/tWteD