#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 14 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:38 AM jb__: checked and rechecked wiring, config of hal ini etc.; linuxcnc wont recognize Emergency Stop pin 10
12:41 AM archivist: use halmeter
12:41 AM jb__: Help anyone
12:41 AM jb__: used it, dont see it changing
12:41 AM archivist: then you can check individual signals and pins when running
12:41 AM archivist: a real scope/meter on your wiring too
12:42 AM jb__: used a real meter; can see the pin being shorted to gnd
12:43 AM archivist: a scope/meter will see if the wire actually has 0v and high (5v/a2v)
12:44 AM archivist: is this some cheap BOB, does the signal get to the port pins
12:44 AM jb__: BOB from steppersonline
12:44 AM archivist: some BOBs need 12v on the switches not 5
12:45 AM archivist: I cannot know all variations out there
12:45 AM archivist: and many suppliers have more than one
12:45 AM jb__: It needs 5v for outputs to step, and 12-24v to read inputs; got both
12:46 AM jb__: have you ever seen an app interfering with a parport BOB
12:46 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:47 AM archivist: are you using some usb-parallel
12:47 AM jb__: hello
12:47 AM pink_vampire: hi jb
12:47 AM jb__: no
12:47 AM pink_vampire: jb__: *
12:47 AM archivist: nothing interferes it grabs the port
12:48 AM archivist: some hardware does not have pull ups in the PC/parport
12:48 AM jb__: i tried to make sure of that by moving port from 378 to 278h ; but no luck
12:49 AM archivist: you have to scope measure the pin at the 25pin connector
12:50 AM jb__: no scope (oscillo you mean)
12:51 AM archivist: or meter
12:51 AM archivist: 0v and greater than 3.5 ish
12:52 AM jb__: everything i see on net and youtoob for that bob says just ext ESTOP to gnd;
12:52 AM jb__: I have digital multimeter; I see 0v and 9v
12:52 AM archivist: stop with watching bad videos and diagnose the wire and signal
12:54 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
12:54 AM jb__: ha ha ha; there are a lot of bad vids; but the magig machines guy sounds like he has a clue; i followed his lead to here; he
12:54 AM IchGucksLive: Morning
12:54 AM jb__: says he is on freenode/linuxcnc
12:54 AM IchGucksLive: jb__: im the magig mashine guy
12:55 AM jb__: tag
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: ich siutze in Zweibrücken
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: und bin noch nicht ganz wach
12:55 AM jb__: german; but very limited vocab living in us
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: NP i can tak EN
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: so you got this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I00ArvYvZgI
12:56 AM jb__: ah ha
12:57 AM archivist: fault finding is about tracing why your signal does not get where you think it does
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: then 12 or more is suplied to the 12-24V in and GND
12:57 AM jb__: yes
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: open up yopur mashine
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: MASHINE Menue HAL_SHOW
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: PINS
12:58 AM jb__: inaccessible right now
12:58 AM jb__: been in HAL
12:58 AM IchGucksLive: ARE you on the MASHINEW
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: close down all windows
12:59 AM jb__: no cant get to it right now ; is nacht
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: wait 30sec reopen the mashine
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: ok
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: so you might bee showing here somtimes around 7PM berlin time
12:59 AM archivist: you need to be on/near the machine for sensible help
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: BUT
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: Follow this steps
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: open the mashine via AXIS
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: Power the mashine after axis has tarted
01:01 AM jb__: if i NOT the hal entry it lets the machine run, but does not acknowledge the mushroom
01:01 AM jb__: Im listening
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: goto Mashine Meue
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: HAL_show
01:01 AM jb__: yes
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: PINS
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: Parport
01:01 AM jb__: yes
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: 0
01:01 AM jb__: yes
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: Klich WATCH
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: klick all the Input pins PIN 10 11
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: 12
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: 13 15
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: you need to see all red for in and if Yellow its NOT
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: if you want a E-stop it is best to do this via HALUI
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: so open your postgui HAL file
01:04 AM jb__: yes
01:06 AM jb__: still there IGL
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: type net extstopsig parport.0.pin-10-in-not => halui.machine.off
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: and delete the mashine-hal estop chain on parport 10
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: this will do what you ant
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: there is mor to be signald as here http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/halui.1.html
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: halui.estop.activate
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: if you need to cat the full power
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: if there is a Relay that powers the PSU maybe on pin 16 or 17
01:08 AM jb__: if you need to cat the full power -- what do you mean here
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: we can help you if you connect from the real mashine and then we edit together
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: Full power means take of the main power of the driver mashine chain
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: Most of us here riun the mashine on deadly voltige
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: like 110V 12A to the Steppers
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: so on e-stop cut that power
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: depends on whirer
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: if EN is not wirered on the driver you got full PSU after Estop on the mashine
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: its not allowed in Europ
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: if it is past 40V
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: OK im off
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: till later
01:12 AM jb__: my machine is logically and electrically capable of drop 220v to PSU and thus stepper ams via pin
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: LAST bullrun thius morning in Pamplona LIVE on TV or NET
01:13 AM jb__: thats right; dont want to miss it; over and out
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: jb__: we will see or talk to people here most know how to setup a clean fast powerfull mashine
02:37 AM Deejay: moin
05:45 AM jthornton: morning
05:50 AM JesusAlos: Morning
06:03 AM Vq: g'day
06:04 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
06:05 AM XXCoder: ill omen at work
06:05 AM XXCoder: office mill started varying Z by .0005"
06:05 AM XXCoder: thats same as other one that failed on Z homing and killed tool changer lol
06:05 AM jthornton: what is the tolerance on the part?
06:05 AM XXCoder: oh thats plenty but issue is machine is starting to fail just like other one
06:07 AM XXCoder: they're STILL working on fixture for robo to use
06:07 AM XXCoder: this time, each run would make 4 parts
06:07 AM jthornton: robo?
06:08 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:08 AM XXCoder: robodrill
06:08 AM XXCoder: its larger machine yet have smaller door entry than office mill lol
06:09 AM XXCoder: its also lower so more wonderful back pain for me lol
06:09 AM jthornton: http://fanuc.co.jp/en/product/robodrill/index.html
06:10 AM XXCoder: http://fanuc.co.jp/en/product/robodrill/alphadib.html
06:10 AM XXCoder: 2 of smallest and 2 of middle
06:10 AM XXCoder: seriously those is designed for midgets
06:10 AM XXCoder: table is fully foot lower
06:11 AM XXCoder: my fatass self cant fit though door without getting nice chips on arms and shoulders
06:11 AM XXCoder: foot? more like foot and half lol
06:11 AM jthornton: it does look pretty low
06:13 AM XXCoder: it is
06:13 AM XXCoder: office mill is nice on that aspect, table is around normal standing table height
06:14 AM * jthornton is a cricket rancher now
06:26 AM XXCoder: nice
06:27 AM XXCoder: using tiny whips etc? eh
06:27 AM XXCoder: what the...
06:27 AM XXCoder: http://68.media.tumblr.com/33c8efeb8649b604b6fa20f5861732f2/tumblr_inline_ot26cfsjNF1sppt0x_500.jpg
06:27 AM XXCoder: its not dining place of reserant. it's inside some mansion..
06:27 AM XXCoder: http://mcmansionhell.com/post/162959673346/50-states-of-mcmansion-hell-st-charles-county
06:34 AM jthornton: http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98948_Armstrongs%20Cricket%20Farm.jpg
06:34 AM XXCoder: so many bugs.
06:34 AM jthornton: that's a bunch of crickets
06:38 AM XXCoder: *crickets*
06:38 AM XXCoder: ;)
06:53 AM * Tom_L hears crickets in here
06:56 AM jthornton: na they are too small to make noise yet
06:56 AM XXCoder: crickets hate this living room. http://68.media.tumblr.com/76dc1162fd4c95796c6ff0d8e01c6ede/tumblr_inline_osqe0jTpMl1sppt0x_1280.png
06:58 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSL4BVG8JSQ
06:59 AM XXCoder: jt video uploader used youtube auto-vomiter
09:35 AM IchGucksLive: hi all from a suny germany
11:21 AM phipli: evening
11:24 AM Loetmichel: maaan i must have been bad in an earlier life. drove my convertible home from work today. in a traffic jam: "sniff... thats brake pad stink..." At home: left rear brake disk hot enough that it made yellow burn marks on my finger tip instead of a blister... and brake pads stinking real bad... caliper seized?
11:27 AM phipli: I wouldn't usually go sticking my finger on a disk
11:28 AM phipli: they're hot if they smoke
11:29 AM Loetmichel: i know that (now) ;)
11:30 AM Todd_Z: perhaps that car is curssed.
11:30 AM phipli: sometimes the rails that the actuators run on rust
11:30 AM phipli: and get sticky
11:30 AM cradek: Loetmichel: piston rusty/frozen or the slides not sliding
11:30 AM Loetmichel: cradek: thats what i meant with seized
11:31 AM phipli: Loetmichel: you just need to oil your brakes
11:31 AM phipli: (don't do that)
11:32 AM Loetmichel: i wouldnt
11:32 AM phipli: they can be a right bitch to strip down
11:33 AM phipli: but if you can, stick some copper grease on the rails?
11:33 AM Todd_Z: It is often cheaper to just buy a reman caliper.
11:33 AM phipli: yeah, part ex
11:33 AM phipli: they weren't too much for my car
11:34 AM cradek: I've replaced 2/4 of the calipers on my bus and really should do the other 2, but they are nearly $300 ea
11:34 AM phipli: but I had to get the mounting bracket off the old one and it was... very firmly attached
11:34 AM phipli: powerbar + vise only just managed
11:35 AM Todd_Z: Then you get the blue tipped wrench.
11:35 AM phipli: no heat to hand sadly
11:35 AM phipli: was in a mates shed
11:36 AM Loetmichel: one for the E36convertible is about $60 new. i dont think i'll search for used parts there
11:37 AM phipli: Loetmichel: is there a part exchange refund?
11:37 AM Loetmichel: no. lust google ebay
11:37 AM phipli: also, make sure you can't work it back into life
11:37 AM Loetmichel: just googled
11:38 AM phipli: get someone to wiggle the brakes while you watch
11:38 AM phipli: check that it /is/ the problem
11:38 AM Loetmichel: sadly i have no car lift handy. so the resident mechanic will get another job...
11:39 AM phipli: Don't need a lift :)
11:39 AM Loetmichel: will see if i get a working ABS pump then so that works again, too, if he has to flus the brake system anyway
11:39 AM Loetmichel: s/abs/"ESP"
11:40 AM phipli: right.
11:40 AM phipli: I should go and try and pretend to make myself presentable for the outlaws
11:40 AM Loetmichel: outlawy?
11:40 AM Loetmichel: s?
11:41 AM Loetmichel: you mean: "not yet inlaws"?
11:41 AM phipli: yeah
11:43 AM Loetmichel: hrhr. my parents in law live about 450km from here... good... bad: wife as a company car which costs no fuel. not even for "private" travels... so we are there every months or so
11:52 AM archivist: I think there is one thing common with all these cars... its Loetmichel :)
11:52 AM Loetmichel: :-)
11:53 AM Loetmichel: i should spend a bit more on my used cars and sell them before they reach the age of "getting expensive"... but i think i will not learn that lesson ever ;)
11:54 AM phipli: my car is... 25 years old
11:54 AM phipli: took it off the road though because it is cheaper to not car
11:54 AM phipli: poor thing
11:54 AM phipli: Loetmichel: my parents and the missus' are both about 4.5 hours away
11:55 AM phipli: but they're all passing through this weekend
11:55 AM phipli: so we have to pretend to be normal and all that
11:58 AM Loetmichel: "normal" as in "acting like a married couple in the suburbs"?
11:58 AM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
11:58 AM JesusAlos: Hi
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: michi dont break somthing importent at your age
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: hi JesusAlos tiday last enssiada in pamplona
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: one jumping on a bull
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: questio n on the log time it aying GMT-6 but is 5.30
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: Q to all hat post do you guyes use for LCNC to generate milling
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: on Fusion 360
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: the given one does real confusing things
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: sometimes it outputs G18 on a G2
12:03 PM phipli: "normal" as in not spending my whole time talking about engineering, computers or chickens
12:05 PM archivist: and watching corry...rofl
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: i do like talking on astronomics more
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: as from last night around 250 people showed up at the public viewing point
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: best Q from a <10 does the earth rotate left or right
12:07 PM phipli: heh
12:08 PM phipli: easy answer : it depends
12:08 PM IchGucksLive: the earth rotetes towards east
12:09 PM phipli: or the earth stays still and the universe rotates to the west
12:09 PM phipli: depending on how you define your origin
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: galaxy center it still moves east or right on cartesian coord
12:10 PM archivist: are you at the north pole or south
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: with orion arm the location of the G54
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: and Y is towards north /black hole
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: as rotation axis is not Z
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: the tilt is to consider
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 got to do garden work befor bedtime
02:47 PM * JT-Shop heads off to the dollar store to look for cricket condos
04:07 PM JT-Shop: why do people keep emailing me and asking what shipping would cost almost every web store I've been on you can just check before ordering
04:08 PM XXCoder: heh yeah gotten that at one website
04:08 PM XXCoder: it gets annoying
04:08 PM XXCoder: my store had shipping chart!
04:13 PM LML: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWd6XgBVIcg :)
04:13 PM rob_h: maybe what they mean to ask is, whats the discount code. as its normally the next question too
04:14 PM JT-Shop: I discount everyone lol
04:14 PM JT-Shop: how's it going on your side of the pond?
04:22 PM pink_vampire: one more part is finished
04:27 PM Skullworks: Thanks JT
04:30 PM JT-Shop: yw
04:37 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: at bricklink nearly all who asks for shipping cost usually re bd customers
04:37 PM XXCoder: *are bad
04:37 PM XXCoder: many stores there dont bother answering
04:48 PM JT-Shop: I try and answer all inquiries
05:17 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ?
05:17 PM pink_vampire: are you here?
05:17 PM XXCoder: yeah whats up
05:18 PM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/cZfi95Q.png
05:19 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: this is the answer ^
05:19 PM XXCoder: looks like some touch probe assembly
05:21 PM pink_vampire: it got machined on all 6 edges
05:22 PM XXCoder: nice job :) it does look great
05:24 PM Skullworks: Pink-V - That some kind of probe calibration fixture?
05:24 PM pink_vampire: Skullworks: correct
05:25 PM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/nhoAbXq.png
05:25 PM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/tJb46SW.png
05:25 PM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/DEsZOUs.png
05:25 PM pink_vampire: Skullworks: XXCoder - more pics!
05:26 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:26 PM XXCoder: nicely done
05:26 PM Skullworks: CMM or ???
05:28 PM pink_vampire: something like that
05:29 PM * Skullworks misses working in the big ISO9002 factory, being lazy and just mount the part in the test fixture of the Mitutoyo CMM and pressing start - and getting a report for all 680 key measurements.
05:31 PM pink_vampire: I don't have Mitutoyo CMM
05:33 PM Skullworks: I think the little air conditioned building - built within the building to house the machine cost a small fortune. They built it around the CMM.
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: you can order them prefabbed from a catalog
05:48 PM XXCoder: Skullworks: yeah shop I work at has that also
05:48 PM XXCoder: its same temperate year around, and damn that room is fairly cold to me now lol
05:48 PM XXCoder: in winter its bit warmer than shop lol
05:49 PM XXCoder: poor QA worker wear thin coat year around
05:49 PM sync: why poor? always the same nice temperature
05:50 PM sync: a friend of mine has the lights running 24/7 in the shop due to the temperature change turning them off would induce
05:50 PM XXCoder: sync: that's what I'm saying, its too cold year around for him lol
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/storage/inplant_offices/modular/modular-inplant-office-vinyl-clad-hardboard-12w-x-20d-4-wall-class-c-fire-rating-tan?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInKuHiueJ1QIVj4p-Ch0tUQQjEAYYBSABEgL08vD_BwE
05:50 PM Skullworks: I liked that it was a nice 60hz hum but very low key. They had a server rack back in the corner and used an Access database for QC data collection.
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: you pick the windows, doors, HVAC power outlests etc
05:51 PM sync: I hated working for hours in the litho bay
05:52 PM XXCoder: sync: interesting, shop turns off lights at QA room
05:53 PM Skullworks: Yeah I keep the Flouresent? fixture above my manual Gunsmithing lathe on 24/7 - the ballasts vibrate like crazy until warm. Its like in the dead center of the shop so you can see enough to walk when all other lights are off.
05:55 PM Skullworks: I have flashlights stationed at each machine and in the inspection area. When the power goes out it is dead black in there.
05:55 PM JT-Shop: man did we just get some heavy rain here
05:56 PM XXCoder: lol yeah QA room'd be super dark
05:56 PM Skullworks: Monsoon season - we are under flash flood warning here too.
05:56 PM * JT-Shop makes another cricket sizer
05:56 PM XXCoder: room in room with no windows at all
05:57 PM XXCoder: in winters 75% of my shift is during dark outside
05:59 PM Skullworks: Ha - no windows would mean the production manager would have them install a IP camera...
05:59 PM XXCoder: only the "pretty" front with offices and stuff has windows
06:00 PM XXCoder: rest of building dont have any
06:00 PM Skullworks: company isn't paying rent for the view...
06:00 PM XXCoder: yep
06:00 PM XXCoder: too bad since theres fanastic view of mountain
06:01 PM XXCoder: real one, not a hill some people would call a mountain
06:01 PM Skullworks: which mountain?
06:01 PM XXCoder: cant recall name lol
06:03 PM XXCoder: a second
06:03 PM Skullworks: Our parking lot east fence was the perimeter fence for the COS airport / Peterson AFB.
06:03 PM XXCoder: ah yes
06:03 PM XXCoder: mt. rainier
06:04 PM Skullworks: was debatable if it was noisier inside or outside.
06:05 PM Skullworks: XX - Boeing?
06:05 PM XXCoder: no, I orginially wantes to work for em
06:05 PM XXCoder: but now nah, they keep firing and hiring
06:05 PM andypugh: Even I have heard of Mt Ranier. I even know that there is a school of thought that it should be called something else. (like Ayre’s Rock)
06:06 PM XXCoder: it's also extremely rotten, that mountain
06:07 PM XXCoder: if it ever goes off there will be huge tide of mud wiping out stuff
06:07 PM Skullworks: Well there is worse beer than Rainier, I kinda like it when I can find it.
06:07 PM XXCoder: lol
06:11 PM Skullworks: That is what enviromentalist don't want you to study... The total sum of current volcanic activity, the thinning of the crust under the ocean floors in the 'ring of fire'. They have everyone looking up, ignoring geo thermal significance.
06:12 PM Skullworks: How many tons of CFC CO and CO2 did St Hellen's put out per hour...
06:12 PM XXCoder: .. is still minor compared to mankind emissions
06:13 PM andypugh: Skullworks: Or, to spin the argument another way: They are desperately trying to gain some headroom to make the climate more resilient to events that we can _not_ control.
06:13 PM Skullworks: They said the damage would take a century to recover. - Go look at it now.
06:14 PM XXCoder: sure. science has been wrong
06:14 PM XXCoder: what I love about science is that it updates with new knowledge,.
06:15 PM maenthrie: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/
06:15 PM Skullworks: I have no problem trying to clean up the human act - but some things are in the etreme while other areas are not addressed.
06:16 PM andypugh: Skullworks: Who are the “They”?
06:17 PM XXCoder: indeed because for any subject there is more extreme group
06:17 PM Skullworks: In the U.S. many of the Clean air act Provisions was more about trade & patent protection than actually improving things.
06:17 PM XXCoder: I figured out long while ago that in a given group, there is subgroup in it, all way down to single person
06:17 PM sync: no windows is good
06:17 PM sync: no heat from the outside
06:18 PM XXCoder: indeed.
06:18 PM XXCoder: in fact qa room isulates itself away from all external walls also.
06:18 PM andypugh: Skullworks: That can be true without the rest being wrong
06:18 PM XXCoder: no shared wall to outside
06:18 PM XXCoder: andypugh: yeah its not exclusive or
06:19 PM andypugh: Skullworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D9vfvUBq8g (a song about “They” )
06:20 PM Skullworks: True - but I hate false flag wars - claiming enviromental concerns when the true motive is profit.
06:20 PM XXCoder: heh theres companies that "green up" but really bullshit also
06:24 PM andypugh: Shortly after Trump pulled out of the Paris deal, my emloyer said “We believe climate change is real, and remain deeply committed to reducing greenhouse gas emissions in our vehicles and our facilities. Our commitment to sustainability is why we’re investing so heavily in electrification and adding 13 new electrified vehicles to our lineup.”
06:27 PM XXCoder: thats good
06:28 PM XXCoder: even if earth is perfect and coal dont affect weather
06:28 PM XXCoder: coal is dying anyway
06:28 PM XXCoder: it makes less and less ecomical sense to mine em
06:28 PM LeelooMinai: Er, pff, finally got connected
06:29 PM LeelooMinai: Had a fail idea of putting Windows VM on 32GB SSD with linux and it exploded:)
06:30 PM XXCoder: doh
06:30 PM LeelooMinai: Well, eventually that is - when the virtual disk got expanded.
06:31 PM Skullworks: I live just south of miles and miles of wind farm - problem is much of that power is currently going to waste because the controllers are crap and the AC output is all over, 42hz-80hz and its disrupting the local grid.
06:31 PM XXCoder: I was wondering though
06:31 PM XXCoder: Why not use huge batteries for more remote wind farms
06:31 PM LeelooMinai: Ordered one of those new EVO 960 NVMe PCIe/M.2 disks - they are supposed to have 3GB/s transfers and are not much more expensive than sata ones.
06:32 PM XXCoder: and feed it out when bought in, and return to be recharged
06:32 PM XXCoder: uses some gas thats bit a con though
06:32 PM Skullworks: They never say anything about it in the "news" but it is listed in the write off losses in the quarterly stock holders report.
06:32 PM LeelooMinai: Huge batteries - a lot of problems by itself.
06:32 PM XXCoder: telsa is working on home batteries
06:32 PM LeelooMinai: If not, I would have monster battery bank in my home by now:)
06:33 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Yes, they have "power wall", but it's $5k...
06:33 PM BeachBumPete: superconductors
06:33 PM LeelooMinai: If someone makes super-cheap battery tech, it will solve a lot of problems.
06:34 PM LeelooMinai: Cheap, dense and safe, etc.
06:34 PM XXCoder: or like our friend bum says, superconductor wires :)
06:34 PM LeelooMinai: Those are useful only for audio cables:)
06:34 PM XXCoder: none exist currently actually
06:35 PM XXCoder: because state of art requires super cooling also
06:35 PM LeelooMinai: They exist - you just need to submerge them in liquid nitrogen.
06:35 PM XXCoder: thats what I said heh well not that specific
06:36 PM BeachBumPete: actually I meant to say Supercapacitors but it came out wrong ;)
06:36 PM XXCoder: ahh lol
06:37 PM Skullworks: Super cheap batteries are like the telco batteries - big plastic boxes with rebuildable lead plates - they work great - but are on the ECO hit list because of Pb - Metalic lead is nearly harmless to humans - until you creat lead salts - which can easily be absorbed in human tissue and is highly toxic.
06:37 PM LeelooMinai: BTW, be careful with those new NVMe drives - they are nice and all, but I was a bit too quick and then 1) found out that they need an adapter for PCie on older motherboards, 2) older motherboards, like mine with Z77 chipset, may not even have BIOS support for them:p
06:38 PM enleth: XXCoder: if anything, one semi-decent way of handling it is by using the shit power output of a wind farm to pump water into a reservoir, then use a water turbine to convert the potential energy into useable electricity when needed
06:38 PM enleth: Skullworks: ^
06:39 PM enleth: some areas do that
06:39 PM XXCoder: enleth: nice yeah, though there is also pressurized giant air tanks for essentally same thing. though none is built yet
06:40 PM LeelooMinai: Fortunatelly the adapters got cheaper noe ($20), and I was able to modify the BIOS by inserting some support module in it and forcing it into the motherboard in a weird way, so it accepted it even though it was not official.
06:40 PM enleth: water is usually simpler and safer, and can be used with an existing reservoir
06:41 PM XXCoder: interesting knife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEfN6H8W1EU
06:41 PM Skullworks: Absolutely - Hydro is the perfect power generation - problem is it requires the most infanstructure investment and space. Its nearly impossible to do on mega scale and be profitable.
06:41 PM enleth: some energy is lost that way, but it's still probably the cheapest way of storing excess electricity from a shitty source that doesn't hold specs for an AC grid
06:41 PM XXCoder: air pressure one requires pretty huge tanks, dug deep into ground
06:42 PM enleth: Skullworks: thing is, you can feed a wind farm into a pumping station adjacent to an *existing* hydroelectric plant
06:42 PM XXCoder: but it takes a lot of air to get close to max power
06:42 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, I once was kind of pondering if I could store solar output in some contraption where some weight (like a ton or more) would be lifted and then used to generate energy by gravity, but when I did some calculations it was ridiculous - to make sense I would need like a tank lifted 100m:)
06:42 PM BeachBumPete: Just a few more programmed cuts and I can turn the program loose on the NICE wood.
06:42 PM enleth: LeelooMinai: almost the same thing as pumping water really
06:43 PM LeelooMinai: enleth: Yes, that's why I mention it - it's an ugly way.
06:43 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: Spinning flywheels work better, and are actually used quite often
06:43 PM XXCoder: andypugh: in vacuum holding spaces it could spin for damn near forever lol
06:43 PM enleth: Skullworks: and if you use inverter-driven pump motors, you don't really give a shit about input power quality, it's rectified into DC right away regardless of what it is
06:44 PM LeelooMinai: I am thinking individual use - I don't think it's a good idea to have a spinning monster flywheel at home:)
06:44 PM andypugh: enleth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
06:44 PM andypugh: XXCoder: Yes, they typically run in vacuum
06:45 PM andypugh: The interesting thing about flywheels is that the optimum shape is long and thin..
06:45 PM LeelooMinai: But all of those things, even commercial ones, where they can go with monster flywheels, huge eater reservoirs, etc., wait for super-battery. Like a Zero module from, what was it, Stargate?
06:45 PM XXCoder: I'd think nearly all mass near end would be best?
06:45 PM BeachBumPete: I found that this router plate setup machined the wood so well in the test cuts I am considering using it to profile the pistol grip area which is rather complex. Only problem is I need to create a 3D model of it.
06:45 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: ZPM zero point module
06:46 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I think it was Stargate Atlantis:)
06:46 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:46 PM andypugh: XXCoder: It turns out that surface speed (exploding flywheel) scales as the square, and stored energy scales as the cube of rpm.
06:46 PM XXCoder: wow that knife is pretty cool!
06:46 PM LeelooMinai: So, let's just wait for scientis... o, right, those are "not cool" any more.
06:48 PM XXCoder: andypugh: interesting
06:48 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: Well, but other things, like friction, etc. become problem. Maybe some kind of levitating flywheel? :)
06:48 PM Skullworks: I'm about 60 miles from Pikes Peak - if they (would require huge invasive government action) were to damn up an area between some of the rocky mountains and also create a lower level reservoir. Then build a dedicated Electrical transmission line from the wind farm... The results would be great. But the obsticles are nearly insurmountable.
06:48 PM XXCoder: think those uses air bearings
06:48 PM sync: Skullworks: such an installation would be illegal here
06:49 PM andypugh: Yes. Magnetic bearings, brushless coupling and running in vaccuum is what they do.
06:49 PM sync: if they surpass 49.8/50.2Hz they have to kick out
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I know: flywheel in space:)
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: And beam the power back with laser or something.
06:50 PM LeelooMinai: Easy peasy.
06:50 PM Skullworks: Look into the power conversion ration for any laser...
06:50 PM Skullworks: ratio
06:50 PM andypugh: It’s easy to make a vacuum. And they last indefinitley in the right capsule. How many 50 year old vacuum tubes are still working fine?
06:51 PM LeelooMinai: 3? :)
06:51 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: But in space you don't have friction either...
06:52 PM sync: wat
06:52 PM andypugh: Yes, but it’s a long way away. And the main use of thse things is UPS systems.
06:52 PM sync: you still have to somehow align the wheel with something
06:52 PM LeelooMinai: Right, just thinking, that in that case you would "only" need to solve the problem of transfering energy back and forth.
06:52 PM andypugh: (These vacuum flywheels are very much a real product and have been for decades)
06:53 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Align for what...?
06:53 PM LeelooMinai: Imo it has only to spin:)
06:54 PM sync: so now you have it spinning
06:55 PM sync: now how to extract energy?
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: The center of it or vice versa does not have to spin at the same speed as the other part, I think.
06:56 PM andypugh: if it’s a brushless motor, then it becomes a brushless generator.
06:56 PM sync: sure, but you somehow have to have the rotor in a reasonable alignment to the coils
06:56 PM sync: which is why you need some kind of bearing, which introduces friction
06:57 PM andypugh: I already said, they use magnetic bearings
06:58 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, does anyone know that status of linuxcnc vs Debian 9 (the scratchy one, or whatever the weird name is)
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: Wonder if at least the simulation works.
06:59 PM andypugh: There is an experimental ISO for Stretch
07:00 PM LeelooMinai: A, Stretch, ok, I knew That Scratchy sounded suspicious...
07:00 PM XXCoder: is it a good distro? it's an stretch after all. ;)
07:00 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: ERxperimental ISO would be, like one of those live ones, or a autobuild iso?
07:00 PM andypugh: I haven’t tried it
07:01 PM andypugh: http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Well, it's new official Debian, so, I assume it's what will be the future best choice for linuxcnc.
07:02 PM XXCoder: heh was making silly joke
07:02 PM BeachBumPete: what is it?
07:02 PM LeelooMinai: But, isn't there 2.8 linuxcnc...
07:02 PM andypugh: Yes. That ISO is LinuxCNC-stable on a new Debian.
07:02 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: If you wrote "a stretch" I would get it:p
07:02 PM XXCoder: bah esl grammar teasing :P
07:03 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: I can - I am ESL too:)
07:03 PM XXCoder: lol ok
07:04 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I guess I will try using Debian 9 on my 24h linux machine + linuxcnc simulator, as I have to move to bigger SSD anyways.
07:04 PM XXCoder: my linuxcnc machine ssd is 8 gb lol
07:04 PM Skullworks: When I lived in Mexico - they said I speak Gringo.
07:05 PM LeelooMinai: Skullworks: And where do you live now?
07:05 PM Skullworks: Colorado USA
07:07 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Well, yes, that 32GB SSD was fine, but I want to run WIn10 VM there for the Chinese software that monitors the solar panels, so... I figured that's better than making some kind of tiny-PC 24h machine, which would be expensive.
07:08 PM XXCoder: no way to just use raspi?
07:08 PM LeelooMinai: Must avoid more than 10 PCs at home trap.
07:08 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: RPI with windows...?
07:08 PM Skullworks: When they decided to close our Colorado plant - I was offered a job training engineers and setup leadmen in our 17 patented processes for making roll formed journals for printer /copier fuser rollers.
07:08 PM XXCoder: no, using some other software
07:09 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: There's no other software though:)
07:09 PM XXCoder: too bad
07:09 PM XXCoder: can it run in windows 95? if so, vm it on raspi lol
07:09 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I can always RE the protocol, but, don't want.
07:10 PM LeelooMinai: Also, plan B could be one of those cheap Sonoff iTead home automation thingies and, what is it called, Open HAB I think. I already have bunch of them ordered from China.
07:11 PM LeelooMinai: Cannot beat $6 Wi-FI on/off switch and I think $18 one with energy monitoring.
07:11 PM XXCoder: internet things tend to be as secure as locked door with key by it
07:12 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, I know, but, if one wants they can still be isolated onto own network, secured with alternative firmware, etc.
07:13 PM LeelooMinai: https://www.itead.cc/smart-home.html
07:13 PM LeelooMinai: Some of them in the past had tendency to melt and go on fire apparently, but by now they do not I think:p
07:14 PM LeelooMinai: ESP modules in them and usual Chinese "tech", so they are cheap.
07:15 PM LeelooMinai: For sub $20 you can even have GPRS/GSM.
07:15 PM LeelooMinai: If you are one of those people that go outside home or something.
07:17 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, they even show some certificates there with safeties - I wonder if they are totall BS, or they actually mean something.
07:18 PM XXCoder: no idea
07:18 PM XXCoder: EVERYTHING chinese is high quluity.
07:18 PM LeelooMinai: I mean, likely they passed them, but what it means - no time to test. I have a fire extinguisher at home:)
07:21 PM LeelooMinai: I verified that one room in my basement has all the sockets with switched neutral and hot - scary stuff:(
07:21 PM LeelooMinai: And I was using all the big machines, like table saw, router, etc. there for years.
07:21 PM XXCoder: ow
07:22 PM malcom2073: Properly designed devices (for that reason) don't care which is which
07:22 PM malcom2073: The reason likely being lack of code back in the day
07:22 PM XXCoder: some is polarity sensive but not many
07:22 PM LeelooMinai: Still, I think I should fix this, somewhow.
07:22 PM malcom2073: You probably should
07:23 PM LeelooMinai: I will make socket adatpters that switch it back:p
07:23 PM LeelooMinai: Those are kind of cool: https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-t1.html
07:24 PM XXCoder: why? pull sockets, correct the wires (unless colors is wrong then go to switch and fix there)
07:24 PM LeelooMinai: At least look nice.
07:25 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Right, I will have to investigate first at what place someone messed this up.
07:26 PM malcom2073: Holy hell that sonoff stuff is cheap
07:26 PM malcom2073: And ESP8266, so likely hackable too
07:26 PM LeelooMinai: If it was for me, I would replace the whole ancient electrical box, but that involves "licenced" electrician aka "that guy that will rob your house without it even being illegal".
07:27 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, and I checked that software like Open HAB has support for those modules, so, I figured worth buying them and testing.
07:27 PM XXCoder: 16 bucks
07:27 PM XXCoder: pretty cheap allright.
07:27 PM LeelooMinai: The simple on/off is like $6:)
07:27 PM malcom2073: I see that
07:28 PM LeelooMinai: Over $10 are "advanced" ones - like the one with power monitoring.
07:28 PM malcom2073: And they have open source firmware: https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota
07:28 PM malcom2073: available
07:28 PM XXCoder: nice
07:28 PM LeelooMinai: FOr that locally I can maybe get a normal LED light bulb, if I am lucky.
07:29 PM XXCoder: 3 gang, hack my fixture so 3 lights are all intpendant, then can have 3 choices of brightness heh
07:29 PM XXCoder: hmm 3d printing have "upload 3d file" shaking
07:30 PM XXCoder: does it means its no good? lol
07:30 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe it's processing...
07:30 PM XXCoder: if I uploaded something maybe lol
07:31 PM XXCoder: but didnt, its just default and annoying animation lol
07:43 PM malcom2073: Man, this Sonoff stuff looks really cool, thanks LeelooMinai
07:43 PM malcom2073: I'm gonna have to get a few to play with, maybe set up my own automation stuff
07:44 PM LeelooMinai: * disclaimer: in case of fire damage, bodily injury, death, this party is not responsible
07:45 PM malcom2073: Hah yep
07:46 PM malcom2073: If I ever get around to putting any in the wall, I'd stick it inside a junction box
08:00 PM * Skullworks I'm off to be the Wizard...
09:10 PM LeelooMinai: New development on "the wall": "President Donald Trump still wants to build a southern border wall — and he wants to be able to see through it."...
09:11 PM Vitran: And a north wall
09:11 PM LeelooMinai: So now it's a wall with solar panels that is transparent...
09:12 PM Vitran: Ah! That is some new development.
09:12 PM LeelooMinai: That's some mental asylum level stuff.
09:49 PM roycroft: hmm, it will be cheaper to get a 5/16" collet and 5/16" end mill to bore out my oil hole than to buy 1/4" ball oilers
09:49 PM roycroft: and at the end of the day i'll have a new collet and end mill
09:50 PM roycroft: odd how that works out sometimes
09:50 PM roycroft: the ball oilers i have are 8mm, and i want a slight interference fit, which 5/16" will provide