#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 06 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM pink_vampire: even 150 is more then you need with 1/8"
12:02 AM LeelooMinai: I don't know - sounds weird:) Also, you want to be able to use bigger tools too.
12:02 AM pink_vampire: http://www.nskamericacorp.com/product/category/e4000/10
12:02 AM LeelooMinai: Well, what... I see some 1.2kW spindle
12:02 AM pink_vampire: those spindles are often use on a lathe and also as high speed spindle. and most of the are around 300W~
12:02 AM pink_vampire: the small ones are closer to 150W
12:03 AM LeelooMinai: Ok, still, those are for specialized applications...
12:03 AM pink_vampire: you will see them on swiss machines and lathes.
12:03 AM cncnoob: pink_vampire, so you wouldn't go with the 3KW 24K 220V spindle + VFD combo I linked to earlier if you were me? I thought it was a good compromise of the things I was looking. Those things being high speed lowish price and low enough speed to cut steel on occasion.
12:08 AM pink_vampire: it is all about what you cut, for face mill, 60K spindle is not the one that will work' but for micro machining, 60K is essential. if 3kW or 300W, this is up to you, think about what you want to cut. calculate the chip load, and the torque you need, and select the spindle that fit the application.
12:09 AM pink_vampire: http://www.artcotools.com/nsk-nakanishi-e2530-series-spindle-system-30-000-rpm.html
12:09 AM cncnoob: I'll be cutting aluminum most the time, but my issue is I want to be versitile
12:09 AM SpeedEvil: Also rigidity of your machine
12:10 AM SpeedEvil: RPM*torque = power.
12:10 AM pink_vampire: cutting aluminum mean nothing.
12:10 AM pink_vampire: what type of cuts??
12:10 AM cncnoob: "think about what you want to cut"
12:10 AM SpeedEvil: At some cutter torque, especially with interrupted cuts, you're going to have large torque ripple going in and out of the part, and large flex in non-solid machines.
12:13 AM cncnoob: what do you mean what type of cuts?
12:13 AM SpeedEvil: So more power may not get you anything if you want precise cuts
12:13 AM cncnoob: My machine is a mini mill (X2 clone) so it isn't very rigid
12:13 AM cncnoob: I get 0.001" precision though
12:13 AM cncnoob: so it is rigid enough
12:14 AM pink_vampire: cncnoob: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk3inzBjDVw
12:14 AM cncnoob: looks expensive
12:15 AM pink_vampire: 2K$
12:15 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-STJZ-UsiBY
12:15 AM cncnoob: is that going to be a Star Trek communicator?!
12:15 AM cncnoob: I *might* have just shown my nerd card there...
12:18 AM cncnoob: Ok, I think I'm seeing that I might be worrying a bit more than I need to about having lower speeds
12:23 AM cncnoob: pink_vampire 60 IPM
12:24 AM pink_vampire: 1524mm/min
12:24 AM pink_vampire: this is tenth of the speed of an industrial machine.
12:25 AM pink_vampire: what is the smallest end mill you are going to use?
12:26 AM cncnoob: probably a 0.098"
12:27 AM pink_vampire: 2.5mm??
12:27 AM LeelooMinai: 2.5mm in proper units
12:28 AM pink_vampire: or you mean 0.25mm?
12:28 AM pink_vampire: cncnoob: ^
12:28 AM cncnoob: sorry
12:28 AM cncnoob: lies
12:28 AM LeelooMinai: That was 0.25mm, yes:)
12:28 AM cncnoob: 0.0197
12:28 AM cncnoob: "
12:29 AM cncnoob: 0.0197"
12:29 AM pink_vampire: 0.5mm/
12:29 AM pink_vampire: ?
12:29 AM cncnoob: I have purchased so many little bits I forgot what my smallest one was
12:29 AM cncnoob: so yeah, close to 0.5mm
12:29 AM cncnoob: I think
12:29 AM LeelooMinai: cncnoob: Man, if you have to use those abpominations, just say "20 mils" or something:)
12:30 AM cncnoob: they come labeled as 0.0197
12:30 AM cncnoob: and 0.098
12:30 AM cncnoob: etc
12:30 AM LeelooMinai: Then return them imo:)
12:34 AM pink_vampire: cncnoob: it is look like that with 60
12:35 AM cncnoob: it is look like what?
12:35 AM pink_vampire: cncnoob: it is look like that with 60K you need higher federates to even use the full capabilities of the spindle.
12:36 AM cncnoob: LeelooMinai, those bits are Kyocera, I thought that was a pretty good tool barnd
12:36 AM pink_vampire: so in your case 24K will be the top for your machine.
12:37 AM cncnoob: So are you saying you would want the spindle to be your bottle neck, not the machine's X Y max IPM?
12:37 AM LeelooMinai: cncnoob: Yes, but that's Japan company I think - no idea why they would use non-metric units...
12:39 AM pink_vampire: the bottle neck even with 24k spindle and 0.5mm endmill, will be the x,y steppers.
12:40 AM cncnoob: oh, I thought you were saying the opposite
12:40 AM pink_vampire: glade it is now clear.
12:40 AM cncnoob: :)
12:41 AM pink_vampire: 24k it is 12 times faster than what you have now...
12:41 AM cncnoob: yup, so it will be a massive upgrade
12:41 AM cncnoob: I'm sure plenty will balk at me getting a 3KW motor for such a small mill though
12:42 AM cncnoob: Not sure if I should stick with the 2.2Kw
12:42 AM cncnoob: I can get both of those with an ER20
12:42 AM pink_vampire: make SURE it is not too heavy.
12:42 AM cncnoob: Unfortunately they don't list how heavy the motors are on those ebay pages
12:42 AM cncnoob: I have the 560 in/oz steppers though
12:43 AM cncnoob: and i'll be able to shed this entire piece off of my mill
12:43 AM cncnoob: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1487&category=
12:43 AM cncnoob: that piece bolts to this
12:43 AM pink_vampire: the heavy the head the slower the Z axis can accelerate.
12:43 AM cncnoob: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1498&category=
12:44 AM cncnoob: I figured it would probably be about equal weight, maybe slightly heavier
12:46 AM pink_vampire: how do I make a stop for a rotational part
12:46 AM pink_vampire: it is have to be dead on.
12:51 AM archivist: pink_vampire, hirth joint, disengage, rotate pull in
12:52 AM archivist: playing with the renishaw ph10t that arrived that appears to have that to set the positions
12:52 AM tris- is now known as tris
12:53 AM pink_vampire: what do you mean?
12:53 AM pink_vampire: there is no motor inside?
12:53 AM pink_vampire: archivist:
12:53 AM archivist: yes there are three motors, one is the lock/unlock
12:54 AM archivist: then A and B motors with feedback
12:54 AM pink_vampire: how the locking work?
12:54 AM archivist: inside of one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renishaw-CMM-PH10T-Plus-Motorized-Probe-Head-/162513110925
12:55 AM archivist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirth_joint
12:55 AM LeelooMinai: Googling a bit more on prussian blue brought me to some pretty extreme info related to it... On one side I read it's on the list of WHO essential medicines (for metal poisonig.) and 1 minute later I was reading that it was used to produce Zyklon B used to gas people in concentrantion camps...
12:56 AM archivist: 0 backlash in position
12:58 AM pink_vampire: so there is a motor that engage it?
12:58 AM archivist: I took the top of mine and operated the lock motor, I could see it open and unlock
12:59 AM archivist: lock=engage and disengage
01:01 AM archivist: in that ebay image the gear you can see lifts the locking bar which pulls the two halves together
01:02 AM archivist: there is a cam on the gear and a hole for a an opto to set locked/unlocked
01:03 AM pink_vampire: it is difficult to machine a part like that on a machine like the one I have?
01:05 AM archivist: actually I think it is easy, just needs a cnc rotary
01:06 AM pink_vampire: i'm trying to salvage the hinge
01:07 AM archivist: getting the maths right so it engages properly is the hard part, probably similar to bevel gear calc
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: Morning from Germany
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: cncnoob: dont go tooltime as mutch as you can
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: use the averige you will need
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: there always will be a part where you reatch the max
01:10 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: what do you mean?
01:10 AM cncnoob: ^
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: your mashine has a max part limit
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: and at a time you will try to make a part that will tot this
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: TOP this max
01:11 AM cncnoob: You are saying don't always try for the fastest speed possible?
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: cncnoob: yes
01:12 AM cncnoob: got it :)
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: you can do maybe 85% or more on 800wats
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: so the top is 1,1KW
01:12 AM cncnoob: pink_vampire, I asked a the guy selling the 3KW spindle motor + VFD... it weighs 11KG :(
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: and the TOOLTime woudt be 2,2Kw
01:13 AM pink_vampire: this is not bad at all
01:13 AM cncnoob: it is nearly 25 pounds
01:14 AM cncnoob: I'll shed 9 pounds taking off the current motor gear housing
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: as pink with here tiny part woudent go for 5feet table mashine
01:14 AM cncnoob: I don't know how much my current motor weighs though
01:14 AM cncnoob: I would guess 5 pounds
01:15 AM cncnoob: so looks like my Z axis would probably have to support an extra 10 pounds
01:15 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: and cncnoob like my VENOS milling EDUcation demo https://youtu.be/sqx9w80diKo
01:15 AM archivist: a rope pulley and weight can counterbalance any weight
01:15 AM IchGucksLive: the A has a backlash of almost 1 Deg
01:16 AM cncnoob: I think it could do it, but I was hoping for a little less weight increase
01:16 AM IchGucksLive: but if you work always one direction on CAM it works fine
01:16 AM IchGucksLive: at 400W
01:16 AM pink_vampire: this is just a 4th axis operation?
01:16 AM cncnoob: nice 4th axis
01:16 AM IchGucksLive: Yes stick oin
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/4achs_elek
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: simple elektroic
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: one psu 4 tb6600
01:18 AM IchGucksLive: 2 lm2565
01:19 AM IchGucksLive: price PSU 20USD,1tb6600 6USD BOB 5USD ,LM25 1USD Case 15USD
01:20 AM IchGucksLive: if you go for a small gear stay on 170OZ 2A you are in good moving mode
01:21 AM IchGucksLive: im off 2 Garden Tomato Harvest
01:21 AM archivist: 1 deg backlash is rattling loose for some work
01:21 AM IchGucksLive: archivist agree but on 17USD it is ok for Education
01:22 AM archivist: you are not teaching precision and accuracy with that rattle!
02:38 AM cncnoob: pink_vampire I remembered that I hadn't fine tuned my machine's feed speeds when I first set it up. I just went with something that worked. I've been playing with it since you asked me what it's max was and now I've got it running at 90 IPM instead of 60 IPM, so good improvement there!
02:38 AM cncnoob: I might be able to go higher still
02:38 AM archivist: if stepper stay on the conservative side
02:39 AM cncnoob: just to avoid losing steps?
02:39 AM archivist: this come from experience of scrapped jobs :)
02:39 AM archivist: yes
02:39 AM cncnoob: I'll have to run some tests
02:39 AM pink_vampire: archivist is right.
02:40 AM cncnoob: At 60 IPM I have never lost a step while running a program that I am aware of
02:40 AM archivist: friction varies over time and load on the table
02:40 AM Deejay: moin
02:40 AM pink_vampire: hi Deejay
02:40 AM cncnoob: Deejay from Full House?
02:40 AM cncnoob: love that show
02:40 AM cncnoob: the old one
02:40 AM Wolf_: 0.o
02:41 AM Deejay: dont know that show ;)
02:41 AM cncnoob: well pink_vampire, I thought having that higher feed speed might make that 60K spindle an option again.
02:42 AM cncnoob: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VstP2jqJcQM
02:42 AM enleth: jeez, Trump came and they closed off half the city center
02:43 AM pink_vampire: I salvage a HDD motor , and it fit beautifully on the side of the machine.
02:43 AM enleth: is it always like that where he usually goes?
02:43 AM cncnoob: Obama came to the AFB 20 miles away from my town and the shut our town down!
02:43 AM cncnoob: when he was in office
02:44 AM cncnoob: pink_vampire, what were you using to calculate the feed speed for that 60K spindle?
02:44 AM pink_vampire: hsm
02:45 AM cncnoob: do you have a favorite app?
02:45 AM cncnoob: ah
02:45 AM pink_vampire: with 60k you are about 10,000mm/min
02:47 AM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/lw4Hyzj.png
02:47 AM cncnoob: what are you doing with that motor?
02:47 AM cncnoob: also, where you doing your calculations with my smallest bit, 0.0197?
02:49 AM pink_vampire: basically all I have now, is a very good preloaded bearing on the side of the head of the machine. I want to make it lock on 0 degrees and 180 degrees, with zero backlesh
02:53 AM pink_vampire: cncnoob: you just make a regular feedrate calculation and you get the chip load and the rpm, then you take your chip load and put against it the max feed rate' or the max feed rate' and you will see what you get.
02:53 AM pink_vampire: as long that you keep your chip load, you will make the cut just fine.
02:55 AM cncnoob: Ok, I'll play with the numbers some more tomorrow to see if that 60K spindle might be a good option if my machine can maintain 90 IPM without losing steps.
02:55 AM cncnoob: Thanks for all the info everyine
02:55 AM cncnoob: everyone*
02:55 AM cncnoob: bye!
02:55 AM pink_vampire: good night cncnoob
02:56 AM pink_vampire: archivist: are you around?
03:24 AM archivist: pink_vampire, just got back again
03:25 AM pink_vampire: did you saw the picture?
03:25 AM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/lw4Hyzj.png
03:25 AM pink_vampire: basically all I have now, is a very good preloaded bearing on the side of the head of the machine. I want to make it lock on 0 degrees and 180 degrees, with zero backlesh
03:25 AM archivist: yes
03:25 AM pink_vampire: archivist: ^
03:25 AM pink_vampire: do you have any idea how to do that?
03:27 AM archivist: I think the part you bolt on needs a slot and you use a hinged (flat spring) peg to fit in the slot
03:28 AM archivist: similar to how lathes get indexed the old way
03:29 AM archivist: peg needs some taper so it is a tight fit
03:29 AM pink_vampire: or 2 cylinders?
03:32 AM archivist: there are 2 methods in this image http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_01_05_Clockworks_schaublin_70/P1050047.JPG
03:33 AM archivist: the left one is not as good as the right
03:34 AM archivist: the right one goes into holes on a disk, there is zero backlash
03:34 AM pink_vampire: not sure where is the right?
03:34 AM archivist: the left has 0 backlash in the index gear but not in the pivot, make the pivot as a flat spring to fix
03:35 AM pink_vampire: the left is the spring with the bar?
03:35 AM archivist: right is mounted on the same bar pointing left
03:35 AM archivist: yes
03:36 AM mwiedmer is now known as goofy
03:37 AM pink_vampire: can't find the "right"
03:37 AM pink_vampire: archivist: ^
03:37 AM archivist: it is in use in this pic http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010241.JPG
03:38 AM archivist: flat plate with peg
03:39 AM pink_vampire: I know the idea of index plate.
03:39 AM pink_vampire: but how you prevent the peg from adding backlash?
03:40 AM pink_vampire: the freedom in the peg screw / spring, can make it not repeatable
03:40 AM archivist: taper on the pin
03:41 AM archivist: so it sits on the taper tight
03:41 AM pink_vampire: but the pin is hold by a screw
03:41 AM archivist: no it is riveted to the plate
03:41 AM archivist: the plate is a stiff spring to keep it in
03:42 AM pink_vampire: i know, but the other side of the pin
03:42 AM archivist: round taper pin in a smaller hole
03:43 AM archivist: it used to hurt taking it out to index to next
03:44 AM pink_vampire: i mean, how the handle that close the screw on the pin, not adding runout to the pin.
03:44 AM archivist: there is no screw
03:45 AM archivist: it is a solid part riveted to plate
03:46 AM pink_vampire: is that a leaf spring?
03:47 AM archivist: yes but pretty thick
03:48 AM archivist: every thing is a spring to some extent, in hindsight the spring should have been more to one end near the bottom
03:49 AM archivist: after making that we got much better gears
03:49 AM pink_vampire: http://www.alliedelec.com/smc-corporation-crb2bw20-180sz/70330876/?mkwid=s46fWb5Q4&pcrid=30980760979&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9YnVoZz01AIVkyOBCh39DADwEAYYASABEgL6NfD_BwE
03:50 AM pink_vampire: maybe that will better solution?
03:51 AM pink_vampire: I know they say +-5deg
03:51 AM archivist: nah better you make something
03:52 AM archivist: is it to hold your probe?
03:52 AM pink_vampire: but i don't care if it will be 180 or 185, as long as it will go to the same point all the time
03:52 AM pink_vampire: yes.
03:52 AM pink_vampire: datron style.
03:52 AM archivist: so you only care when down
03:53 AM pink_vampire: and i know that datron use the pneumatic rotary actuator
03:53 AM pink_vampire: correct
03:53 AM archivist: see dual ball bearing mechanism used to index switches
03:54 AM pink_vampire: what do you mean by "dual ball bearing"? preloaded?
03:55 AM archivist: may be use the one ball type, this is a spring steel plate with hole/s for the ball/s and stationary holes for the index positions
03:55 AM archivist: that can be kinematic
03:56 AM archivist: some use a slot so it really is kinematic
03:56 AM pink_vampire: or 2 cylinders,
03:57 AM archivist: they do wear though if you ever see in an old switch
03:58 AM pink_vampire: i know, that was my first idea, but i know they wear out.. so I look for other option.
03:59 AM archivist: the thing with a peg and you lifting it out means even wear
04:00 AM pink_vampire: bet the hole gen can enlarge, in not even way..
04:01 AM archivist: more even than ball/cylinder that always works against one side
04:01 AM pink_vampire: what about magnet?
04:02 AM archivist: renishaw uses a magnet with a kinematic mount
04:03 AM pink_vampire: you mean on the cmm mount?
04:03 AM archivist: the probe head came with half a tp 20
04:03 AM pink_vampire: lol
04:04 AM archivist: "parts missing" remember
04:04 AM archivist: he never mentioned the tp20 on ebay
04:05 AM archivist: just need to find the other half one day
04:06 AM pink_vampire: i need to finish my probe
04:08 AM Timbo_ is now known as Timbo
04:13 AM archivist: a tp20 is just a tp2 with a magnetic joint in the middle so you can have automatic stylus changing
04:18 AM pink_vampire: archivist: stop with giving my ideas
04:20 AM pink_vampire: me
04:25 AM archivist: hooomeeee
04:50 AM XXCoder: hooomeeee
05:26 AM pink_vampire: hi XXCoder
05:26 AM XXCoder: hey whts up
05:28 AM jthornton: morning
05:28 AM pink_vampire: i will show you
05:28 AM XXCoder: ok. hey jt
05:30 AM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/Gj1dvKI.png
05:30 AM XXCoder: making umm whats it called, vacuum forming?
05:30 AM pink_vampire: no
05:31 AM pink_vampire: let me take better pic
05:32 AM pink_vampire: I'm working right now on countersinks for the screws
05:33 AM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/gIOsxZJ.png
05:34 AM pink_vampire: I'm probing each hole, and then make the sink with 1/2" end mill
05:35 AM XXCoder: cool though still not too sure what youre making
05:35 AM XXCoder: looks like it is in 2 parts that can be apart or not
05:39 AM malcom2073: Mornin
05:39 AM jthornton: morning
05:39 AM XXCoder: mornin
05:39 AM malcom2073: Might have some paying work: http://i.imgur.com/j5AmjgT.png
05:39 AM * XXCoder steals copyrighted design
05:40 AM malcom2073: Heh
05:40 AM XXCoder: that looks like mostly lathe
05:40 AM malcom2073: I think I designed it off a copyrighted design anyway
05:40 AM jthornton: the slow looks fun
05:40 AM malcom2073: It is, I'm going to use a mill to rough it, because I don't have a cnc lathe
05:40 AM malcom2073: And it'll suck to remove that much manually heh
05:41 AM jthornton: how big is the disk?
05:41 AM malcom2073: 4" biggest diameter
05:41 AM malcom2073: Guy wants it out of 7075
05:41 AM malcom2073: I don't think he realizes how much that's gonna cost heh
05:43 AM jthornton: yea $125 for 6"
05:43 AM malcom2073: Yeah
05:44 AM jthornton: good stuff to work with but watch tap hole size it's a little grabby when tapping
05:44 AM malcom2073: I'll probably hand tap it
05:44 AM malcom2073: Well, I'll definently hand tap it heh
05:45 AM malcom2073: that's a 3/8-24 iirc
05:45 AM jthornton: I usually go no more than 60% thread on 7075
05:45 AM XXCoder: mal ford tend to "hand tap" parts using lathe, rotate umm part holder? by hand
05:46 AM malcom2073: My spindle doesn't spin freely enough for that, I can't disengauge the belt drive
05:46 AM malcom2073: though I could hold the spindle still and use the tailstock just to center the tap that I spin by hand
05:47 AM jthornton: I have some tap handles with guides and I put the manual lathe in low gear then chuck the tap handle guide in the tailstock
05:47 AM malcom2073: Yeah mine has a dent in the backend for something like that
05:48 AM jthornton: that's prob the center when they made it https://www.mcmaster.com/#tap-handles/=18dlryb
05:49 AM jthornton: but I've used that in the past to get started straight
05:49 AM malcom2073: Ah that kind of guide, nice
05:50 AM jthornton: yea tap a few threads spin the tail stock a bit and tap some more
05:51 AM malcom2073: The guy I'm doing this for drag races cars, and he's hoping that he can use me for machining random parts he needs, might beslow steady work
05:52 AM jthornton: that would be nice
05:52 AM malcom2073: We'll see if my price scares him off, I don't know that he's ever actually gotten a part made, but this is gonna cost more than the $120 one you can buy in the store
05:52 AM malcom2073: (Which is steel)
05:52 AM jthornton: store bought one two piece?
05:53 AM malcom2073: Huh? It's a one piece
05:53 AM malcom2073: Oh, no
05:53 AM malcom2073: it's two, shaft is welded in
05:55 AM XXCoder: it could be much cheaper if you could find metal cast default thats close enough to that part
05:55 AM XXCoder: not very likely
05:55 AM malcom2073: Some shop makes an aluminum one for $250, I expectthat's what they do
05:56 AM XXCoder: you got 4 axis cnc mill?
05:57 AM malcom2073: My dad does, I thought about that
05:58 AM XXCoder: well could do increasing cylinder rough cut or 8 sided or whatever nyumber of sided cuts
05:58 AM XXCoder: both would need quite long tool though
05:59 AM malcom2073: I was thinking place it vertical and just cut in a spiral around and down
05:59 AM malcom2073: I have a long big endmill
05:59 AM malcom2073: 1" and 4" long
05:59 AM malcom2073: 1" diameter
06:00 AM XXCoder: cool
06:00 AM malcom2073: Ought to be a fun job to do
06:16 AM pink_vampire: 4 holes to go on the upper piece
07:33 AM Loetmichel2: Hurrhurr... our (chinese) CFO a.k.a Bosses wife just opened a package containing some encliosure parts from china here in the production floor. "*mumble* ... how bad. real disappointment... *mumble*" $me couldnt help but ask: "anything wrong?" She. "Yeah, this quality is bad, and the parts are dirty. The chinese manufacturer changes people every few months... and it gets worse every time".
07:33 AM Loetmichel2: $me: "hey, good people cost money. and if you only want to pay 1/10 of the price a german sheet metal company would call you dont have to wonder if you get garbage."... her: *mumbe mumble* *[disappears to the upper floor]. THATS how i like it. Production floor peaceful again. ;)
07:35 AM nos: lol
07:36 AM nos: You didn't even give enough rope to hang herself with.
07:43 AM archivist: malcom2073, in production use a forging
07:44 AM Loetmichel2: nos: hang herself? care to elaborate?
07:47 AM nos: It's an expression. "given just enough rope to hang himself with".
07:47 AM nos: Sort of like 'dig one's own grave'.
07:47 AM Loetmichel2: yeah, i know
07:47 AM Loetmichel2: i meant HOW in the context here?
07:51 AM nos: Is this important? I can't think of anything offhand and I'd rather not spend more time thinking about the consequences of making conversation.
07:51 AM nos: Unless it's really important that you have something spicier to say the next time.
08:06 AM Loetmichel2: i think she got the guist of me not liking her very much already ;)
08:07 AM Loetmichel2: -u
09:19 AM gcardinal: Im afraid to start using my machine
10:03 AM Loetmichel2: *YEAH* car mechanic just called. Coolant leak on the BMW 318i convertible fixed... i can take it home this evening after work. What are the bets that we will have continous rain until winter here now?
10:53 AM Todd_Z_: Nah, it'll just rain until the convertable breaks down again.
10:55 AM Todd_Z_: What was the source of the coolant problem?
12:00 PM * JT-Shop uses a #69 bit to hand wind a spring with 0.010" music wire... gonna take some practice
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: hi from sunny sommer germany
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: today the redlights in the car went on
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: diagnostics says main E- power fail
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: the battery clamp has been only half
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: how the hell coudt that happen
12:29 PM Loetmichel: brass clamp?
12:30 PM Loetmichel: they do break sometimes from vibration
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: yes
12:30 PM * Loetmichel just got caught speeding... :-(
12:32 PM Loetmichel: [17:55] <Loetmichel> MAAAN, why me all the time? got the convertible from the mechanic... drove home with open canopy... halfway there it starts to rain... and seconds later it flashes red from the right... speedtrap... and my speedo showed 45kph... the sign on the street said 30... :-(
12:32 PM Loetmichel: Todd_Z_: a broken plastic hose stud at the back of the engine
12:38 PM Todd_Z_: Hopefully it wasn't too painful (or expencive) to fix. (Using a worm drive clamp in place of the OE spring clip will often crack plastic hose fittings.)
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: so tomorrow 8am Europa time MESZ the bullrun starts
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: in pamplona live via internet
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: so many americans to hospital
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: us president tomorrow in germany well that will break alot of glass windows
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: any rain in your way
01:01 PM Loetmichel: Todd_Z_: was done under warranty of the engine swap
01:01 PM Loetmichel: ... hopefully
01:02 PM Loetmichel: the mechanic hasnt decided yet, he has to consult his worker who did the swap if its possible that he broke that at the swap
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: http://www.unwetterzentrale.de/uwz/rlpindex.html
01:02 PM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: it has POURED for half an hour here... now its dry again
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: no single drop here
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: http://www.lightningmaps.org/?lang=de#m=sat;r=0;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=;n=0;y=48.8423;x=8.8739;z=7;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: im of need to water the garden as nothing expected
01:07 PM archivist: got my first incident on dashcam tonight :)
01:11 PM Tom_itx: heh
01:12 PM archivist: some jerk pulled out his lane and forced the car in front into the kerb damaging something, saw bits flying
01:20 PM JT-Shop: http://gnipsel.com/images/guns/Mitchell%20Spring.jpg
01:22 PM JT-Shop: my screw up the other day only cost me $27.50... not as bad as I though originally
01:45 PM jym: jdh: should have only cost 10ยข, damn shipping charges!
01:45 PM jym: JT-Shop: ^^^
01:55 PM JT-Shop: no the ER11 collet holder I trashed the nut on not the tiny spring I made
01:55 PM JT-Shop: BTW you can't buy one that size
01:56 PM jym: well, somebody did it looks like
01:56 PM JT-Shop: somebody did what?
03:12 PM Vitran: The 4 wire, 230V 10 gauge armored cable I found in the ceiling yesterday I just finished up wiring up to 8 plugs. Turns out that the 120VAC I was measuring was phony. The white wire was snipped in the panel
03:13 PM Vitran: Good news is there is a lot of slack in the cable so I can get some of the white wire. But a true waste of money, 10m of armored 4 wire 10 gauge to not use one of the wires.
03:20 PM JT-Shop: two more parts and I'm done for the day
03:21 PM pink_vampire: JT-Shop: pics
03:25 PM JT-Shop: http://gnipsel.com/images/guns/Mitchell%20Spring.jpg
03:25 PM pink_vampire: you make the spring??
03:26 PM JT-Shop: yea 0.010" wire 0.050" OD
03:27 PM pink_vampire: how do you make them?
03:28 PM JT-Shop: I used a pin vise with a #69 drill bit for a mandrel and wind two wires at once to get even spacing under the microscope
03:29 PM pink_vampire: super impressing!
03:32 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?961876-225-mg-so-far-but-gonna-be-lighter! on that general topic
03:32 PM SpeedEvil: That is a 225mg IR controlled powered plane.
03:33 PM SpeedEvil: https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/5/7/7/5/8/a2202001-122-%26%231084%3B%26%231080%3B%26%231082%3B%26%231088%3B%26%231086%3B%20008.jpg
03:33 PM SpeedEvil: this is the motor and gearbox
03:33 PM XXCoder: battery probably is large percent of weight.
03:33 PM SpeedEvil: He cut the battery down under argon, and resealed.
03:34 PM XXCoder: "it is the weight of 1/10th of a Kleenex Tissue"
03:36 PM LeelooMinai: Anyone here from Canada?
03:37 PM LeelooMinai: I am wondering if replacing an outside lantern by homeowner is "legal/allowed". It's just one of those motion-sensing ones on the wall.
03:38 PM LeelooMinai: Or one needs licensed electrician, etc.
03:38 PM FinboySlick: LeelooMinai: It's legal so long as you don't get caught ;)
03:39 PM LeelooMinai: Well, sure, but since it's outside, when I climb on the wall and start doing weird things, will be rather difficult to be invisible:)
03:39 PM LeelooMinai: Er, climb on the ladder*
03:39 PM LeelooMinai: I am not a spiderwoman:p
03:40 PM Deejay: make photos ;)
03:40 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe not...
03:40 PM Deejay: come on. we wont tell anyone! ;)
03:41 PM LeelooMinai: I need to remove the old one too - seems someone used construction adhesive or what it is, like tons of it, to merge it with the aluminum siding:/
03:41 PM FinboySlick: LeelooMinai: I think Deejay got a bit excited because you said you'd be doing weird things to it.
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: you could cheat, in principle too
03:42 PM LeelooMinai: Well, by weird I meant that I will probably need to chiesel all this mess out first and then maybe cut siding to prepare for new mounting "solution", etc.
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: there are radar actuated bulbs
03:42 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: I don't see where it goes:)
03:43 PM LeelooMinai: Unless they can float in the space or something.
03:43 PM LeelooMinai: My problem is that I need to mount the lantern, not how it works:)
03:43 PM JT-Shop: pink_vampire: that was not the first try lol but one of the last ones
03:44 PM Deejay: hmm
03:46 PM FinboySlick: JT-Shop: What is the spring for?
03:47 PM JT-Shop: slide release on my Mitchell (same as High Standard) Citation II pistol
03:50 PM JT-Shop: I did try and buy one and the guy at the gun store did a good job of not laughing at me while trying to look for one online
04:12 PM Deejay: gn8
05:59 PM pcw_mesa_ is now known as pcw_mesa
07:16 PM pink_vampire: 7 nut inserts to go
07:39 PM Simonious: pink_vampire: I need a tunes stream, got a link handy?
07:40 PM pink_vampire: what do you mean?
07:40 PM pink_vampire: Simonious: ?
07:40 PM Simonious: I usually like trance like things.
07:42 PM Simonious: pink_vampire: you posted one in here last week, it was great, but it's dead now.
07:43 PM pink_vampire: the burning man/ tomorowland music?
07:43 PM Simonious: maybe? I don't have it.. I closed it after it died.
07:44 PM Simonious: oh, it was this: https://www.youtube.com/c/JoseLuisToledanoLopez/live
07:44 PM pink_vampire: ooh you mean the midi live stream?
07:45 PM Simonious: if that is what that was
07:47 PM pink_vampire: it was someone else from here hat did the stream.
07:48 PM Simonious: I had hoped you kept a stream going all the time and would have a link handy :)
07:56 PM Simonious: WENT WITH https://www.internet-radio.com/stations/trance/
07:56 PM Simonious: ugh caps
08:26 PM McBird is now known as McBride36
08:29 PM Simonious: https://snag.gy/JvaWDN.jpg Is this a reasonable stepper controller if I don't care about microstepping? ;)
08:30 PM pink_vampire: just get one like the 3d printer use
08:30 PM Simonious: those can't handle 7A per pole..
08:31 PM pink_vampire: 7A stepper?
08:31 PM Simonious: indeed
08:31 PM Simonious: M093-FD11
08:33 PM malcom2073: Simonious: Need some pretty beefy diodes
08:34 PM Simonious: malcom2073: Do you think those 4007s are reasonable?
08:34 PM malcom2073: Wait, I msiread that. That schematic won't do anything will it?
08:34 PM malcom2073: You need an h-bridge
08:34 PM Simonious: it's possible I dicked it up
08:35 PM malcom2073: you're just pulling the coils to ground, without supplying them with power
08:35 PM tjtr33: a simple h-bridge works, years ago emc users were making these cap-top drivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmFKOVepYY
08:35 PM Simonious: the diodes go to Vcc.. I screwed this up, didn't I?
08:35 PM malcom2073: Simple hbridge: http://modularcircuits.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/image7.png
08:36 PM malcom2073: I think you may have intended to point the diode the other way?
08:36 PM malcom2073: Which would work, however it would burn 7 amps through the diode, which the 4007 can't handle
08:36 PM Simonious: well I put it in the way I intended, I may just be wrong.
08:36 PM Simonious: I am a novice.
08:36 PM Simonious: I like the simple h-bridge
08:37 PM malcom2073: The idea behind the h-bridge being that you supply power *and* ground alternating
08:37 PM Simonious: but.. I'm driving a stepper, so..?
08:37 PM malcom2073: So you need to supply power and ground to the coils, and then flip it to reverse the pole
08:38 PM malcom2073: Perhaps you should read up on how steppers work, they go into how they're driven
08:38 PM Simonious: clearly more learning is in order
08:38 PM malcom2073: Yep. I have to add a disclaimer here: You're going to hurt yourself and/or burn your house down.
08:39 PM Simonious: eh, not likely, I may not be great at circuit design, but I'm fine at making mistakes safely.
08:39 PM malcom2073: Designing high power circuits is fairly complicated, and dangerous if done incorrectly. I don't know what I'm doing, but I've been lucky so far and only had to use a fire extenguisher several times :)
08:40 PM malcom2073: And when you can get a 7A stepper driver for sub $100 nowadays......
08:40 PM malcom2073: :P
08:44 PM Tom_itx: china
08:44 PM malcom2073: Likely better than anything homebrew at least for the first year or so of trial and error
08:56 PM Cromaglious_: Just ordered a motor tuner for my steppers
09:29 PM jdh: waht is a motor tuner for a stepper?
09:29 PM Tom_itx: maybe it varies the step length and space
09:29 PM Tom_itx: beats me
09:32 PM malcom2073: One of those chinese diode magical thingies?
09:36 PM Cromaglious_: It's a microcontroller with a serial port to access and tune the parameters of the integrated stepper driver controller.
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/ these have a serial interface to tune them
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/cam-packages.htm anyone ever work with this CAM package for SW?
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: wondering what it is like
10:34 PM LeelooMinai: I guess that driver is like normal Chinese ones, plus maybe digital processing for the resonance avoidance.
10:35 PM LeelooMinai: So imo kind of half-assed - I would rather just try the clearpath-like solutions.
10:36 PM pink_vampire: what is the gcode for touch off x 0.0
10:36 PM LeelooMinai: CaptHindsight: It has "sign up for Beta", so, meh?
10:38 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: G10 L2 I think
10:38 PM pink_vampire: l2?
10:38 PM LeelooMinai: G10 L2 P1 X0 ?
10:38 PM LeelooMinai: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g10-l2
10:39 PM LeelooMinai: P0 is for active coordinate system, then P1 up are G54 up
10:40 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: You don't have g-codes printed and attached to the machine, wall, or whatever? :)
10:41 PM pink_vampire: no
10:41 PM pink_vampire: but i have 2 computers, and 4 monitors
10:42 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I don't even know how many I have in the house.
10:43 PM LeelooMinai: Seems 5 PCs and 8 monitors - lol.
10:43 PM pink_vampire: i mean just for cad, cam, linuxcnc etc..
10:44 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I have one dedicated to linuxcnc, for cad/cam I just use my desktop - it has 4 monitors.
10:44 PM LeelooMinai: But still, I would print those g-codes.
10:47 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, I think I reached the point in YouTube comments which is a sign I should stop - somehow ended on a channel full of people that seem to be part of some "Flat Earth" organization.
10:48 PM LeelooMinai: And they have discussions there about how you cannot see Earth curvature from a plane... ok.
10:49 PM pink_vampire: one sec, the machine is running
10:52 PM pink_vampire: job done!
10:56 PM pink_vampire: i need to make compass with sphere instead on the sharp point
10:57 PM LeelooMinai: Stick the leg into a pea
10:57 PM pink_vampire: hehe
10:58 PM LeelooMinai: Well, but seriously - you could drill a ball bearing ball maybe?
10:58 PM LeelooMinai: And then insert the pointy bit into the hole.
10:58 PM LeelooMinai: Then you could even have a whole set of balls with different sizes.
10:58 PM pink_vampire: i just going to prob it, instead of mark it the old way.
11:11 PM cncnoob: CaptHindsight, if it is anything like CAMWorks I wouldn't expect much
11:12 PM cncnoob: CAMWorks uses a MS Access tool database which is, in my opinion, cumbersome and hard to deal with
11:13 PM cncnoob: It isn't as intuitive as other CAM packages
11:14 PM cncnoob: This is coming from a novice CNC'er though. A more experienced machinest might have picked it up better. I've tried CAMWorks, EdgeCAM, SolidCAM, MasterCAM, and HSMWorks and HSMWorks has been the easiest to use by far.
11:15 PM cncnoob: HSMWorks also has the free solid works plugin you might already know about
11:15 PM LeelooMinai: Just use F360 - it has HSM-like CAM for free more or less.
11:15 PM cncnoob: yeah
11:16 PM cncnoob: The Fusion 360 variant is has more features too, like automatic tabs and built in probing support
11:16 PM cncnoob: they haven't added that to HSMWorks yet
11:16 PM cncnoob: but, if you have been using SW for over a decade it is hard to justify the switch
11:16 PM LeelooMinai: well, is SW free?
11:17 PM cncnoob: Depends where you "shop"
11:18 PM LeelooMinai: In the past I used pirated SolidEdge, but, well, pirated sogtware is usually a pita, so, if there exists something free and equivalent...
11:19 PM cncnoob: You can actually get a student version for only $20 bucks if you have a university email address
11:21 PM samsagaz: hi guys, exist some recommended DIY CNC machine to build? i found many projects but really is hard to find something recommended or tested design...
11:22 PM samsagaz: will use linuxcnc under arch linux
11:22 PM cncnoob: What is your budget?
11:22 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: Meh... good luck getting a simple answer:) There's tons of things to consider.
11:22 PM samsagaz: LeelooMinai, i know :)
11:23 PM samsagaz: i know some things at least :)
11:23 PM samsagaz: want to use hiwin rails
11:23 PM samsagaz: small machine, (40x40cm)
11:23 PM samsagaz: servo motors
11:23 PM samsagaz: leadshine drivers
11:23 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: I just designed one by myself. Imo write requirements in a list, then do some research, download Fusion360 and design it. You will also have bonus CAD training.
11:23 PM samsagaz: maybe 1616 ballscrew in XY and 1605 in Z
11:24 PM samsagaz: but main problem is the structure...
11:24 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: Thr frame, right?
11:24 PM samsagaz: 4040, 6060 profiles are so expensive in my country... aluminium too.... and steel is hard to level and not twist when welding...
11:24 PM samsagaz: (sorry for my enlish)
11:25 PM samsagaz: was thinking about draw it and cut it in steel, maybe 6mm
11:25 PM samsagaz: laser cut
11:25 PM LeelooMinai: That's the whole trick imo - zillion of approaches too. From easy extrusion build to crazy ideas like using epoxy + filler stones to cast the frame.
11:26 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: Then you need access to expensive vutter.
11:26 PM LeelooMinai: cutter*
11:26 PM samsagaz: here in argentina all is expensive
11:26 PM samsagaz: but laser or plasma cut maybe it not so expensive
11:26 PM samsagaz: just need to ask
11:26 PM samsagaz: or water cut.. dont know yet
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: Well, that's pretty much what I meant - there's many factors to consider for the frame, some of them will be very specific to your situation, what you can get, what you can use, how much money you have, etc.
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: cncnoob: thanks,just looking for feedback from any users
11:28 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: You may be a person that, I don't know. For some reason has some rail-road tracks in the basement: then I would recommend using them for the frame:)
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: we run Mastercam and NX CAM
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: never tried the SW CAM package
11:29 PM samsagaz: and level it using epoxy?
11:29 PM samsagaz: and just for Y axis or will be too heavy :)
11:30 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: Well, first of all, there are different types of frames. For example I made mine with fixed gantry, but there are other options.
11:30 PM samsagaz: yes with fixed ganty can use more of that kind of tracks
11:31 PM LeelooMinai: As long as you meet your goals - usually it will be the stiffness and cost.
11:31 PM samsagaz: is not hard to find some used train-rails.. and maybe use epoxy for level the linear rails
11:32 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: I guess what am I saying is that it's questionable to use some "plan" - then you are imediatelly locked into certain assumptions.
11:32 PM samsagaz: :)
11:32 PM LeelooMinai: samsagaz: So better plan may be just thinking about what you can get and then design around ot.
11:32 PM LeelooMinai: it*
11:33 PM samsagaz: ok will start drawing
11:33 PM samsagaz: thanks for the tips
11:33 PM LeelooMinai: ok, np
11:33 PM MrTrick: I've got a 2.2kW-spindle CNC router that's been used with flood cooled cutting before, but now it's used almost exclusively for dry cutting, has a wooden spoil board, etc.
11:34 PM MrTrick: Anyone know if there's a "cut sheet metal" option that won't get the spoil board wet? I've looked into chilled air cooling and it looks fantastic, but I wonder if I'd still need a cutting fluid
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: MrTrick: what are you cutting?
11:35 PM MrTrick: like 2mm mild steel
11:35 PM MrTrick: *maybe* some 6mm
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: if you cut slow
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: how about mist cooling?
11:48 PM MrTrick: It's possible, I don't know how much it would affect the bed.
11:49 PM MrTrick: I was watching and being super impressed by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fma_wuE9dx4
11:49 PM MrTrick: took me a while to realise - where is all the water and mess?
11:49 PM MrTrick: which led me to Hilsch vortex coolers and the rest
11:50 PM MrTrick: but all their examples were Alu
11:58 PM LeelooMinai: MrTrick: You would probably be less impressed if you considered how much that whole setup costs...