#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 17 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM XXCoder: http://www.buypredatorsoftware.com/
12:02 AM XXCoder: pricy. ow. light version is free
12:05 AM XXCoder: work does use local service also to send programs to machines
12:05 AM LeelooMinai: Is it a light version like "Light version is the same as paid one, but you cannot edit anything."? :)
12:05 AM XXCoder: its good since it works with quite old machines like fadal 88
12:05 AM XXCoder: lol
12:05 AM XXCoder: nah full edit just nothing besides edit a,d PATH only preview
12:07 AM LeelooMinai: E, bugger them:)
12:07 AM XXCoder: its pretty decent actually
12:07 AM XXCoder: but yeah
12:24 AM Crom_: home
12:25 AM XXCoder: hey home
12:26 AM Crom_: II was folded up in the back seat like an origami frog
12:27 AM XXCoder: speed type car thats "4 seat" but really 2 eh
12:31 AM XXCoder: Crom_: I remember this ad where 3 guys come to corvette or whatever, that is techinically 4 seated but back seat is like 3-4 inches wide
12:32 AM XXCoder: they roll and they fold loser into prezel and drop him into back chair
12:32 AM Crom_: nice to be out of the car
12:36 AM XXCoder: I bet
12:48 AM Crom_: rebooting
12:50 AM XXCoder: ReBoot!
12:52 AM XXCoder: apparently there will be reboot of reboot cartoon of 90s
01:11 AM Crom: oh great libc6 update.. wonder what's that's gonna break
01:11 AM XXCoder: everything that wasnt broken
01:11 AM XXCoder: and it will fix one broken thing. so everything except one will be broken
01:16 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
01:17 AM XXCoder: night from usa
01:17 AM XXCoder: hows things
01:19 AM IchGucksLive: still try to get my 7seg to work
01:20 AM IchGucksLive: i think the 7219 is broken
01:20 AM IchGucksLive: as there are all 8 seg in use but i command only 3
01:57 AM IchGucksLive: till later
02:20 AM Deejay: moin
02:21 AM XXCoder: yo
02:22 AM Deejay: good night, XXCoder ;)
02:22 AM XXCoder: whats up
03:49 AM Phiplii: morning
03:50 AM archivist: studioe website open again
03:50 AM XXCoder: hey
03:52 AM Phiplii: is it. have they removed all mention of the building?
03:53 AM Phiplii: morning XXCoder
03:53 AM archivist: no does not seem edited at all
03:55 AM archivist: well the project page looks same as off archive.org the other day as far as I remember
03:57 AM XXCoder: they may have taken down in order to avoid the slashdot effect
03:59 AM Phiplii: most likely MD panic
04:01 AM Phiplii: the cladding manufacturers website has multiple mentions of how firesafe it is that appear out of place
04:02 AM Phiplii: https://www.arconic.com/aap/europe/en/product.asp?cat_id=1964&prod_id=4427
04:03 AM archivist: I want to know which insulation was used
04:04 AM Phiplii: actually, they probably used this : https://www.arconic.com/aap/europe/en/product_category.asp?cat_id=1843
04:04 AM Phiplii: that one isn't A2
04:04 AM Phiplii: the insulation doesn't look tooooo bad in photos
04:05 AM Phiplii: if you look, the fire liked the darker coloured cladding - traveling up and down it
04:05 AM Phiplii: sadly the windows are either side of the dark bits
04:06 AM Phiplii: silly thing is that it will be months if not years before it all comes out
04:07 AM archivist: parts of the fire looked like melting plastic dripping fire, which can be from three places the window frames, the cladding core and insulation
04:07 AM archivist: I think there is enough pressure to speed up the process a bit
04:08 AM Phiplii: the aesthetic cladding is alu+polyethylene+alu
04:08 AM Phiplii: read but forgot what the insulation was
04:08 AM Phiplii: not seen anything about the windows
04:08 AM archivist: there is a chimney affecr behind the cladding between it and the insulation
04:09 AM Phiplii: fire loves narrow gaps
04:09 AM archivist: the decorative coating as well
04:10 AM Phiplii: paint?
04:10 AM Phiplii: not sure what it is.
04:10 AM archivist: seems it was rolled onto the cladding so maybe a plastic
04:10 AM Phiplii: goes on in the factory
04:10 AM Phiplii: yeah
04:11 AM Phiplii: Back at work Monday
04:11 AM Phiplii: We have thee fire specialists in the team
04:12 AM Phiplii: I'll ask their thoughts at lunch
04:12 AM archivist: just attacking the generator control box this morning annoying the cul de sac with angle grinder noise
04:12 AM Phiplii: heh
04:13 AM Phiplii: I need to put two grub screw holes in the motor coupling I made yesterday
04:13 AM Phiplii: but need to put the vise on the mill first
04:15 AM Loetmichel: IMHO grub screws only work in conjunction with a flat on the shaft to grab on
04:15 AM Loetmichel: s/work/work right
04:16 AM archivist: or dimple
04:16 AM archivist: and if torque is not too high
04:17 AM Phiplii: good thing the is almost always a flat on a motor shaft then :)
04:17 AM Phiplii: *there
04:19 AM Loetmichel: dimple works, too
04:19 AM Loetmichel: (of course)
05:32 AM jthornton: morning
05:32 AM XXCoder: welcome back sir jt
05:43 AM jthornton: what's up this morning
05:43 AM pink_vampire: not much
05:43 AM pink_vampire: someone what to go to PA with me?
05:45 AM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest44341
06:01 AM jthornton: from PB to PA that's backwards I think
06:02 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: not sure what you are asking
06:02 AM pink_vampire: nothing basiccly
06:04 AM pink_vampire: any idea what to do with 2 1gal bottles full of aluminum chips?
06:04 AM jthornton: melt them down into nuggets
06:04 AM XXCoder: yeah epoxy/alum chips paperweight
06:04 AM jthornton: I have 55 gallons to melt
06:04 AM pink_vampire: I don't have a furnace
06:05 AM XXCoder: honestly remelting is better depends on where you live
06:05 AM jthornton: I use a barrel with a hole in the bottom and some firewood
06:05 AM XXCoder: what if she lives at apartment?
06:05 AM jthornton: then have a 1/4 of a barrel under with water
06:05 AM XXCoder: some places just cant do that
06:05 AM jthornton: scale down
06:06 AM XXCoder: I live at house but its rent, with lots neighbors nearby
06:06 AM XXCoder: electric kiln maybe
06:07 AM XXCoder: lots of power but doable in house as long as well protected
06:08 AM Loetmichel: pink_vampire: depends on how small the chips are
06:09 AM pink_vampire: the size is from dust to very large
06:09 AM Loetmichel: if they are very small like powder you'll need an electric furnace with a protective athmosphere to get any significant amounts of aluminium back
06:09 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: so epoxy paperweights then!
06:09 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: there should be fluxes to protect it from oxy
06:10 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: only helps if it isnt oxidized already
06:10 AM XXCoder: hmm yea
06:10 AM XXCoder: alum does rust very fast'
06:11 AM Loetmichel: and has a high enough affinity to o2 to even reduce rust back to steel
06:11 AM Loetmichel: see thermite ;)
06:11 AM XXCoder: talking about alum rust not iron rust
06:11 AM Loetmichel: yeah.
06:12 AM Loetmichel: what i meant is that it clings very hard to any gained o2
06:12 AM XXCoder: ah
06:12 AM Loetmichel: so its not easy to reduce it
06:12 AM pink_vampire: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-Melting-Furnace-Melt-2kg-Silver-Gold-Pour-Bar-Digital-Controller-USA-/162414199612?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275
06:12 AM XXCoder: silver and gold. I wonder if it works with alum
06:13 AM XXCoder: apparently yes
06:13 AM XXCoder: says nothing about pewler but then thats less common nowdays
06:13 AM XXCoder: "usa stock" "We Offer 100% Satifiation Service,Include re-send item&refund payment;"
06:16 AM XXCoder: reviews on those isnt too good.
06:16 AM XXCoder: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1KG-Digital-Automatic-Melting-Furnace-for-Melt-Scrap-Silver-Gold-1500W-110V-/391800390784
06:17 AM pink_vampire: 96.5% Positive feedback
06:17 AM XXCoder: better feedback http://www.ebay.com/itm/1KG-Automatic-Melting-Furnace-Kiln-Digital-Control-1150-Degree-SLIVER-COPPER-/252966748290 lol
06:18 AM pink_vampire: looks better
06:19 AM XXCoder: does not include alum
06:19 AM XXCoder: just "precious metals"
06:19 AM pink_vampire: but i'm still think it is a very bad idea to do it in an apartment with wood floor.
06:19 AM XXCoder: indeed
06:20 AM jthornton: get a fire stone for under
06:20 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: I need to start making stuff from platinum instead of aluminum
06:20 AM XXCoder: problem pouring so on can spill stuff
06:20 AM XXCoder: pink pricy heh
06:20 AM XXCoder: if I get into casting stuff it'd be woith pewler
06:20 AM XXCoder: easy to melt and remelt have fun with it
06:20 AM pink_vampire: osmium is my favorite element
06:21 AM XXCoder: too bad thats so toxic
06:21 AM XXCoder: expecially its oxide ouch
06:21 AM pink_vampire: what toxic?
06:21 AM XXCoder: osuium oxide
06:22 AM XXCoder: you'd have to protect it from oxygen
06:22 AM XXCoder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium_tetroxide nasty stuff
06:22 AM jthornton: 1 kg of gold is 0.052 L of volume
06:23 AM pink_vampire: as far as I know it is not toxic as metal
06:23 AM XXCoder: it isnt
06:23 AM XXCoder: as long as oxygen never touch it
06:23 AM XXCoder: Iridium is quite close and safer
06:25 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: you are confusing between OsO2 - safe to OsO4 - super toxic
06:26 AM XXCoder: does os02 remain stable and not "burn" more into oso4?
06:27 AM pink_vampire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium_dioxide
06:27 AM pink_vampire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium_tetroxide
06:27 AM XXCoder: already read
06:28 AM pink_vampire: http://www.edant.de/de/id,669,Osmium_Ring/
06:28 AM XXCoder: anyway my favorite element (not by huge mirgin) is tungsein
06:29 AM pink_vampire: why?
06:29 AM XXCoder: it is #1 on melt temperate lol
06:29 AM XXCoder: like i said not expecially more favorite than other elements but yeah
06:29 AM pink_vampire: not graphite?
06:29 AM XXCoder: thats carbon
06:31 AM XXCoder: it wont turn to liquid but simply direct from solid to gas till its in pressure of 100 atms then it can melt at 4300k (graphite)
06:31 AM XXCoder: tungsein is t 6,191F
06:32 AM jthornton: http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/hotshortness.html
06:32 AM XXCoder: that method wastes some alum but works yeah
06:33 AM pink_vampire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon#/media/File:Carbon-phase-diagramp.svg
06:33 AM XXCoder: yep
06:34 AM XXCoder: found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uIF_NIJN5g
06:35 AM XXCoder: same channel has make video of that same thing
06:37 AM XXCoder: jthornton: how do you outgas alum? or do you not bother to?
06:38 AM XXCoder: I remember myfordboy using flex to outgas and another flux to protect surface of melt
06:38 AM XXCoder: the making of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rih84vg3Frk
06:39 AM XXCoder: its just pictures but clear enough
06:39 AM XXCoder: dunno if guys speaking.
06:39 AM jthornton: no he does not ever speak
06:39 AM jthornton: been a while I'd have to dig up my notes
06:40 AM jthornton: oh I thought it was a myfordboy vid
06:40 AM XXCoder: oh lol
06:41 AM jthornton: and no sound at all from the vid
06:41 AM XXCoder: nah he does great stuff but this one is much smaller and electric
06:41 AM uwe__ is now known as uwe_
06:42 AM jthornton: melting cans is a waste of time lol
06:42 AM XXCoder: other video hes melting parts and pipes
06:43 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zOfl9a6Sok
06:44 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: only if you have no way of protecting the cans vom oxidizing
06:44 AM Loetmichel: could be a good idea to compress said cans to be as close to a solid as possible before throwing them into a furnace
06:44 AM XXCoder: its so thin, those cans that its already pretty large amount of AuO
06:44 AM Loetmichel: ( if you want them to yield any significant amount of liquid aluminium)
06:45 AM Loetmichel: those cans are usually painted inside and out
06:45 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBhOAiipyZg
06:45 AM Loetmichel: there is noth THAT much AuO in there
06:45 AM XXCoder: maybe shredder for cans
06:45 AM Loetmichel: .. until the paint burns
06:45 AM XXCoder: *AlO sorry lol
06:45 AM XXCoder: Au is gold.
06:46 AM Loetmichel: AlO, of course
06:46 AM Loetmichel: didnt even notice that ;)
06:46 AM XXCoder: AuO would be shocking
06:46 AM Loetmichel: need pretty high temperatures to get gold to burn IIRC
06:46 AM XXCoder: HMMMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPKH7Q3nXno
06:47 AM XXCoder: pretty huge dross
06:48 AM XXCoder: the non-slick burnoff is unhealthy to extreme
06:48 AM Loetmichel: i cant remember... can coal/carbon reduce al?
06:48 AM Loetmichel: it contains Flouride, yes
06:48 AM XXCoder: theres couple ways to make Al from AlO, pure no oxygen el;ectric melting, or err like jt said heh burn that grabs O very strongly
06:49 AM XXCoder: and dunno on coal
06:49 AM XXCoder: that guys system sucs'
06:50 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Pn4fN1Bo8
06:55 AM XXCoder: thats what they do with alum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz-xnair92o
07:01 AM jthornton: the steam is the ants...
07:16 AM JT-Shop: wow I'm out here early... gotta get the plasma going with Deweys branch
07:23 AM JT-Shop: step 1 remove all the stuff from the plasma table
07:46 AM phipli: step 2, put it all back again?
08:32 AM Tom_itx: JT-Shop, what did dewey do?
08:41 AM archivist: made a library classification system
08:41 AM * archivist ducks
08:41 AM * Tom_itx sends the duck hunting dogs after archivist
08:46 AM JT-Shop: he made a branch for external offsets with a plasma torch height control
08:47 AM Tom_itx: so it's a separate branch from main..
08:47 AM Tom_itx: no plasma here.... carry on.
09:11 AM phipli: JT-Shop: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/16/spaces_vs_tabs/
09:33 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
09:41 AM Loetmichel: *brrrrr* $me is back from the tyre dealer... 4 new barum 205/55R16-91h summer tires for 305 eur...and a gratis shower in the car wash. fact: the convertible canopy may be rain-proof now. it ISNT carwash-proof.... *drip*
09:47 AM Tom_itx: you like pouring money in your auto ehh?
09:48 AM Loetmichel: Tom_itx: why?
09:48 AM Loetmichel: it needed new tyres
09:48 AM Loetmichel: as do my other car
09:49 AM Tom_itx: didn't you just put a motor in it? or was that someone else here
09:49 AM Loetmichel: but that can wait a while longer
09:49 AM Loetmichel: that was the same car, correct
09:49 AM Loetmichel: and i will have to change the windshield also
09:49 AM Tom_itx: meh, just wear goggles
09:49 AM Loetmichel: thats what you have to do when you buy a 1999 BMW 318i convertible for just 900 eur ;)
09:50 AM Tom_itx: heh
09:50 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16673&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:51 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16670&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:51 AM Loetmichel: this will get me a ticket should the police pull me over for any reason
09:52 AM Loetmichel: already ordered a new windshield... but made an appointment at the mechanic that will mount it for next month because this month was with 11 eur +300 eur for the engine and 305 eur for the wheels already expensive enough ;)
09:55 AM Loetmichel: ... after that i "only" have get a used original suspension to replace that cheapskate aftermarket threaded coilover suspension and take care af e very few rust spots on the left side then its "like new" ;)
09:55 AM Loetmichel: s/11 eur/1100 eur
11:40 AM knowhow: hello
11:41 AM knowhow: how to solve the pango cairo problem for linuxcnc knowing that i have them installed allready but the software stiil complains
11:41 AM knowhow: ?
11:42 AM knowhow: i am under ubuntu 16.04 with preempt rt kernel 4.9.32
11:43 AM knowhow: when i select my machine it closes throwing something like pango not found cairo not found and pango-cairo not found either
11:43 AM knowhow: i have them installed...is it a python issue or something?
11:46 AM knowhow: is anyone watching the main chat by any chance?
11:47 AM archivist: plenty watching
11:47 AM knowhow: hey archivist..how are ya?
11:48 AM archivist: never seen or heard of those errors
11:48 AM knowhow: it's the guy with the oss sound card by the way...not some stalker freak :)))
11:49 AM knowhow: after i compiled it ...finaly it complains about not finding those... when i select my machine from the list which is the cooltool basic 540
11:50 AM knowhow: i cried on the linux kernel chat and they compiled me a kernel in literaly minutes
11:50 AM knowhow: i wanted to compile it myself of course for learning but didnt work
11:51 AM knowhow: so that problem is solved
11:52 AM knowhow: the compilation instructions from the forum are fin except the guy doesnt specify in which folder you have to be every time you do something...so
11:52 AM knowhow: after everything will work for me i will post a tutorial on youtube...a long one
11:54 AM knowhow: so anyone about the pango and cairo libraries not seen by linuxcnc?.....i have the following ones installed allready: libcairo2-dev and libpango1.0-dev
11:54 AM knowhow: but linuxcnc still rebels against me with errors
11:55 AM knowhow: so after setting the environment and starting linuxcnc in terminal i get the configuration window with some utilities that work....
11:57 AM knowhow: but when selecting my machine so axis can start....the error about not finding pango and cairo and not finding a pango cairo module also...which i found out that gets created after pango and cairo are found
11:57 AM knowhow: i am writing this to show my reasearch untill now
11:58 AM knowhow: everything is documented and corrected in a note text file by the way for when the youtube tutorial will be made
12:00 PM knowhow: any developers of linuxcnc in the chat by any chance?....they can clear alot of issues if present
12:02 PM knowhow: archivist you havent seen the errors beacause you have used the one that comes embedded with the lniux 10.04
12:02 PM knowhow: linux*
12:03 PM knowhow: mint i believe yes ?
12:03 PM archivist: there are others who have 16.04
12:03 PM archivist: nope dont run mint
12:04 PM knowhow: wait is there an ubuntu 16.04 that has the linuxcnc allready prepacked?
12:05 PM knowhow: well...i allready chose the steap road :)))
12:10 PM knowhow: archivist i havent reached the installation of naviCAM by the way...if it isn't obvious yet :))
12:12 PM knowhow: and i am so close ...it is like a very incenting fresh cake right in front of....and you have a milimeter ti'l you reach it :|
12:59 PM pcw_home: I'm running LinuxCNC on Ubuntu 16.04 (and Wheezy and Mint 17 and Mint18)
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: hi
01:04 PM roycroft: do any folks here use 80mm 2.2kw spindles on their machines?
01:04 PM roycroft: there are air cooled and water cooled spindles available
01:04 PM roycroft: i'm wondering if the air cooled ones get really hot after a while
01:05 PM sync: I have not heard people reporting that
01:05 PM roycroft: i would likely not run the thing for more than 5-10 minutes at a time, and duty cycle would probably be 40% or so at most
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: roj i got the ones you say
01:06 PM roycroft: air cooled is a bit less expensive (even disregarding the cooling system)
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: rojy no the aircooled is also good at 4hr milling
01:06 PM roycroft: and easier to install
01:06 PM roycroft: great
01:06 PM roycroft: that's what i want to hear
01:06 PM roycroft: because i'd really prefer an air cooled spindle
01:06 PM roycroft: this will be used as a wood router, not on a cnc mill
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: keep in mind there is a head sensor
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: that will stop the spindle
01:07 PM roycroft: a thermal switch?
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: you need to wirer the error chain
01:07 PM roycroft: oh, it's not a switch
01:07 PM roycroft: just a sensor
01:07 PM roycroft: hmm
01:07 PM roycroft: i could always just wire it to an indicator
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: the vfd does it for you
01:08 PM roycroft: aah, yes, i was just thinking that
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: NO wirer it to halui.mashineoff
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: the spindle will stop without notice
01:09 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322527801184
01:09 PM roycroft: that's what i'm looking at
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: there are most all the same
01:09 PM roycroft: there will be no cnc control on this
01:10 PM roycroft: it's for wood
01:10 PM roycroft: on a router table
01:10 PM roycroft: so just the vfd
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: WHY then at all
01:10 PM phipli: is that air cooled as in compressed air?
01:10 PM roycroft: i'll use a simple dro for height adjustment
01:10 PM roycroft: no, ambient air, phipli
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: go for the 50Euro wood motoors
01:10 PM roycroft: i want the variable speed, ichguckslive
01:10 PM roycroft: and i want to control the speed remotely
01:10 PM phipli: couldn't see the fan/inlets
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: they do have varable
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: from 6-20K
01:11 PM roycroft: yes, i'm using a porter-cable variable speed router right now
01:11 PM roycroft: but i have to adjust the speed on the router itself
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: are you in USA
01:11 PM roycroft: which is not convenient
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: or around europ
01:11 PM roycroft: especially in the table i'll be making
01:11 PM roycroft: i'm in the us
01:11 PM roycroft: milwaukee used to make a variable speed 2.2kw router with remote control
01:11 PM roycroft: but they don't make it any more - nobody does
01:12 PM roycroft: and i want my porter-cable for hand held use at times
01:12 PM roycroft: i don't want to have to remove it from the router lift
01:12 PM roycroft: another porter-cable would cost me $300
01:12 PM roycroft: it makes sense to me to get one of those 80mm spindles and a vfd instead, for about the same price
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Oberfrase-Holz-Frase-Frasmaschine-Hand-Kanten-Fraser-1200W-12-Fraser-im-Koffer-/162147675725
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: let me find the english version
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: there is a 48mm mount
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: so you can fit it to the table
01:14 PM roycroft: that has no power
01:14 PM roycroft: and only takes 8mm tooling
01:14 PM roycroft: i need something a lot more robust than that
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: you woudt be impressed
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: at that price
01:15 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-7518-Speedmatic-5-Speed-Router/dp/B0000222V3
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: there are 2KW on 100USD
01:15 PM roycroft: that is what i currently use
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: ok
01:16 PM roycroft: and virtually all my tooling has 1/2"/12.7mm shanks
01:16 PM roycroft: an er20 collet spindle would be perfect
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: you know that the power is calculated at the speed factor on that VFD
01:16 PM roycroft: yes
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: not on the tourge
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: so it has my own expirence around 1400W
01:17 PM roycroft: i would like something a bit more powerful than what i have
01:17 PM roycroft: i can dog it down on heavy cuts with big tooling
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: i got both here in Education the 2,2 and the 1400
01:17 PM roycroft: i use a router lift
01:18 PM roycroft: http://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.htmlhttp://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.html
01:19 PM roycroft: the older version of that
01:19 PM roycroft: and sorry
01:19 PM roycroft: http://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.html
01:19 PM roycroft: didn't mean to double paste there
01:20 PM roycroft: when i build the new router table, i want to use a new spindle with vfd that i can control remotely
01:20 PM roycroft: and i'm going to add something like this:
01:20 PM roycroft: http://wixey.com/remote/index.html
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: this is on 500W wood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdvROAlCMMQ
01:20 PM roycroft: i want a small panel to display the speed and height, and that's really all i need
01:21 PM roycroft: sure, with tiny tooling
01:21 PM roycroft: i use raised panel bits that are ~65mm in diameter
01:21 PM roycroft: i need more power for those
01:21 PM roycroft: and since it's not cnc i can't just program it to take a zillion tiny cuts
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: the VFD spindle do not work upside down
01:22 PM roycroft: they don't?
01:22 PM roycroft: why not?
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: they get realy hot that way
01:22 PM roycroft: hmm
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: its gravity against bearinnnnnnng
01:22 PM roycroft: so that means i may be back to the water cooled one
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: but i do not know exact why
01:23 PM roycroft: which costs more
01:23 PM roycroft: i haven't seen any documentation that says not to use them upside down
01:23 PM roycroft: i'm not disbelieving you
01:23 PM roycroft: just saying i haven't seen anything that suggests that
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: i know they get realy quick hot thats all
01:24 PM roycroft: which is why i've been planning on using a spindle like that ever since i started designing this project
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: within 30sec
01:24 PM sync: I doubt they don't work upside down, the bearing arrangement is so simple
01:24 PM roycroft: that's no good
01:24 PM sync: I think I had one running upside down for a while
01:25 PM roycroft: it seems odd that it would be an issue
01:26 PM roycroft: unless the bearing at the end opposite the collet is a lot less capable than the one near the collet
01:26 PM roycroft: i'm assuing there are two bearings in the thing, and the collet shaft runs the length of the motor
01:28 PM roycroft: some of those spindles come with german bearings, and some with no-name bearings
01:28 PM roycroft: it's probably worth paying a bit more for the german bearings
01:37 PM IchGucksLive: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1850W-2HP-1-2-or-1-4-ELECTRIC-PLUNGE-ROUTER-UL-listed-1850-Watt-110v-23000RP-/200822493409
01:38 PM IchGucksLive: thats the best
01:38 PM IchGucksLive: the pro motors go way beond 50K rpm
01:38 PM roycroft: a plunge router will not work
01:38 PM roycroft: i cannot mount it to the router lift
01:38 PM IchGucksLive: ok
01:39 PM roycroft: i have hand-held plunge routers
01:39 PM roycroft: i need something specifically for a router table with a lift
01:39 PM IchGucksLive: standard E-motors do not stand the force
01:39 PM roycroft: i have a spare vfd
01:40 PM roycroft: so i suppose i could order a spindle, run it in my desired orientation, and see if it gets too hot
01:40 PM roycroft: and send it back if it does
01:40 PM sync: yeah
01:40 PM sync: I would do that
01:40 PM sync: you could also just run a variac to your router
01:41 PM roycroft: not on my current one
01:41 PM roycroft: but yes, if i got a fixed speed one that's an option
01:41 PM sync: it will also work on one with speed control
01:41 PM roycroft: i tried and it did not
01:41 PM sync: interesting, it should
01:42 PM sync: as there only is a diac circuit in them usually
01:42 PM roycroft: it started making weird noises and the speed would vary randomly
01:42 PM roycroft: i only ran it for a few seconds that way, as i felt i was going to damage the rouer
01:42 PM roycroft: router
01:43 PM sync: well, you need to turn it to full speed probably
01:43 PM IchGucksLive: as i read Triton TRA001 are most used on router table with a lift
01:43 PM roycroft: i had the router set for 23000rpm, which is full speed
01:43 PM roycroft: and tried varying the input voltage
01:43 PM sync: interesting
01:43 PM sync: they basically have a dimmer circuit in most of them
01:44 PM IchGucksLive: im off
01:44 PM roycroft: i don't know how i would mount that to a router lift, ichguckslive
01:44 PM roycroft: i need to clamp on a cylinder to mount
01:44 PM sync: which is just a triac after all, it should not care about the input voltage
01:44 PM roycroft: i don't know what the circuitry is in mine, but it was unhappy with low voltage
01:45 PM roycroft: i'm not sure what to make of the notion that the spindle i'm considering will overheat if inverted
01:45 PM roycroft: that just doesn't make sense to me
01:45 PM sync: yes
01:45 PM sync: I don't think it will
01:45 PM roycroft: unless it's an air-cooling issue
01:46 PM sync: idk why the spindle is so expensive over there
01:46 PM sync: they are only 99€ here iirc
01:46 PM roycroft: and the convection currents are different when it's inverted
01:46 PM sync: they are not, it is forced air
01:51 PM roycroft: ichguckslive mentioned at the end that it may not take the radial load of a large cutter well
01:51 PM roycroft: that is actually more of a concern of mine
01:51 PM roycroft: but i don't know that it will be much of an issue
01:51 PM roycroft: those spindles are designed for machining metal
01:52 PM roycroft: and even though they will use small tooling for metal, wood is a lot easier to machine, so the load should be less, even with relatively large diameter tooling
01:53 PM roycroft: i also keep in mind that ichguckslive always looks for the least expensive solution, even when the solution does not meet the requirements :)
02:01 PM sync: I would not worry about the load
02:02 PM roycroft: i don't have a serious concern about that
02:02 PM roycroft: i'm just saying that to me it's more of a concern than overheating due to inversion would be
02:02 PM roycroft: i also know that a lot of folks run those spindles for hours on end at close to 100% duty cycle
02:03 PM roycroft: and i won't be doing that
02:03 PM Crom: morning all
02:05 PM Crom: the problem with the DC spindles is the screw holes in the bottom let crap get into the motor. and if it's upside down you will have issues
02:06 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: o_O?
02:07 PM LeelooMinai: What screw holes?
02:08 PM roycroft: i'm talking about a 3 phase ac spindle
02:08 PM Crom: ahh don't know about those..
02:08 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322527801184
02:08 PM roycroft: like that
02:08 PM LeelooMinai: Crom, ok, but in any case, do you have a pic of the holes you are talking about?
02:09 PM roycroft: and if it's forced air cooling, i should think the air would be blowing towards the collet end
02:09 PM roycroft: it would be insane to move the air the other way
02:10 PM LeelooMinai: Runout less than 5 microns - right...
02:10 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: Do you have me on ignore too or what?
02:12 PM roycroft: the water cooled ones seem to be fully-sealed though
02:13 PM roycroft: i'll have 1hp of dust collection suction available, so i can keep the compartment that houses the spindle pretty clean
02:15 PM dioz: you guys see that Michell Carter was found guilty?
02:16 PM dioz: now days you can go to jail if you tell someone to kill themself
02:16 PM dioz: "when should an ice and water shield membrane be used on a roof?"
02:16 PM dioz: just got asked that question
02:16 PM dioz: for serious
02:18 PM dioz: these guys want underlay, slip sheet, and I&W membrane
02:18 PM dioz: for a aluminium roof
02:18 PM dioz: non-structural
02:19 PM Crom: hmm
02:19 PM Crom: there we go... my client stopped sending
02:19 PM Crom: uploading picture to picpaste now
02:20 PM Crom: trying to upload picture]
02:23 PM dioz: anyone know linear expansion for aluminium off the top of their head?
02:24 PM dioz: from -40c to +40c
02:38 PM renesis: http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/048/jresv48n3p209_A1b.pdf
02:39 PM renesis: looks like 20-25 um/C
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: so 1 mil per C - easy to remember
02:39 PM Crom: downloading picture from phone to my computer to try to upload from there
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: Also, scary:)
02:39 PM sync: I like how it says "some aluminum alloys"
02:40 PM renesis: theres info for 6061 thats in that range
02:40 PM Crom: 1 mil per mm or cm?
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: mil/C...
02:40 PM renesis: http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=ma6061t6
02:41 PM renesis: its per m
02:41 PM * LeelooMinai ponders her rails expanding mil with each 2 degrees...
02:42 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder though, since they will be screwed to steel beams, how that works now...
02:42 PM renesis: theyre a meter wide?
02:42 PM LeelooMinai: No, half a meter - hence 2 degrees:)
02:43 PM renesis: that but thats length that probably wont do anything
02:43 PM renesis: *yeah but
02:44 PM Crom: the 4 holes without a screw http://picpaste.com/20170617_114506-K19iyW9w.jpg
02:44 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: Well, just put set screws into them and problem solved? (also: you get an award for longest upload in history:)
02:45 PM Crom: my phone sure was taking it's time...
02:45 PM LeelooMinai: I bought a box of set screws from Ali - already came useful yesterday.
02:46 PM LeelooMinai: Good at plugging holes like that.
02:48 PM * LeelooMinai examines collimators on Ali - seems a lot of those for gun-nuts, etc. - wonder if I can use them for something neat.
02:48 PM Crom: so can vampires see themselves in mirrors that are not silvered with silver. Like aluminum?
02:49 PM roycroft: crom: are those mounting holes on the top of that spindle?
02:49 PM Crom: roycroft: bottom
02:49 PM roycroft: on the collet end :)
02:49 PM roycroft: top and bottom are relative
02:50 PM roycroft: if they're mounting holes then if you use them to mount it nothing should get in them
02:50 PM roycroft: and if you don't you should be able to just cap them off, no?
02:50 PM Crom: I have a 52mm clamp mount..
02:50 PM Crom: I had one hole plugged
02:50 PM roycroft: so just get some short button head cap screws and plug the holes
02:51 PM * LeelooMinai grumbles
02:52 PM LeelooMinai: This is what happens when people use ignore
03:01 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, looking at cheap Chinese level tubes (they sell precision tubes by themselves.) They specify accuracy in what I believe is seconds (so 1/3600 degree), like that: 20"/2mm - any idea how good it is in comparison to precision levels machinist would use?
03:02 PM opiumx: Hey all
03:07 PM opiumx: I have a strange issue: Regarding the fact that this is my first day using linuxcnc I cope that my example winn be clear enough. So, three steppes driven by a 6600 cards and a green "Mach3 contriller". During the wizard setup the LPT works, I can do tests on all 3 axes. But (and here goes the stuff)...
03:11 PM opiumx: when I try to print or move the axes over the linuxcnc logo, the gray cone overdraws the trace, but no movement is produced. I believe, I may be wrong in the zeroing of the unit. There are no limit and home inters installed yet. The LPT seems to be busy. The indicator leds on the drivers are not blinking and the enable stays low. Any ideas? Probably I'm missing something big
03:27 PM jthornton: are your steppers free to turn by hand?
03:33 PM LeelooMinai: http://i.imgur.com/T0zThov.png
03:36 PM opiumx: yes
03:37 PM jthornton: your drives may not be enabled
03:38 PM opiumx: on my control board the enable pin is 14. The LPT test app opens in fine; there is a small click and the motors are locked. Is there something to enable later on?
03:41 PM jthornton: open the show hal configuration from Axis and see if pin 14 is on or off
03:56 PM opiumx: port 14out<==xenable = true
04:04 PM JT-Shop: hmmm
04:05 PM JT-Shop: opiumx: turn the machine power off in Axis (F2) and see if the steppers become hard to turn
04:06 PM JT-Shop: IIRC most steppers have a DISable not an ENable pin
04:09 PM jdh: or pull the wire off and see if it enables
04:11 PM opiumx: pulling the wire blocks the rotor, F2 does not change the state
04:12 PM opiumx: trying to use another pin number >
04:13 PM JT-Shop: invert the pin
04:16 PM jdh: don't use it
04:17 PM JT-Shop: that too
04:18 PM opiumx: I tryed the invert, but opening lcnc I have an error "fake port not found"
04:18 PM LeelooMinai: lol
04:19 PM opiumx: on port 17 with unplugged relay jumper, same result :)
04:22 PM JT-Shop: did you expect a different result on a different pin?
04:22 PM JT-Shop: never hear of that error and it doesn't make sense for inverting a pin...
04:24 PM opiumx: not exactly, I am not sure about the curent characteristics of those pins, if they are "high" enougt. Electrical cause may be probable
04:26 PM opiumx: tomorrow I will plug the oscillo and check all those pins and voltages
04:28 PM JT-Shop: when you toggle F2 and you get the opposite of what you want invert the pin
04:28 PM JT-Shop: stepconf doesn't use the enable during test this axis...
04:33 PM Deejay: gn8
04:35 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I took apart automatic center-punch from curiosity.
04:36 PM LeelooMinai: I was wondering how it "triggers". Seems that there's a pin and cylinder with bored hole, so I assume at some point that pin gets concentric with the hole.
04:36 PM LeelooMinai: But not sure how it's not concentric initially.
04:40 PM almostworking is now known as almstwrking
05:33 PM Crom: received my screws I ordered... great!... They're M6... I needed M5's DOH!
05:44 PM JT-Shop: I hate when that happens
05:44 PM Tom_itx: it's H O T! 99F
05:45 PM JT-Shop: only 88F here
05:45 PM Tom_itx: was gonna work in the garage a bit but i dunno now
05:46 PM Tom_itx: gotta make a few special tools
05:46 PM JT-Shop: KC K? wx shows only 91F
05:46 PM * LeelooMinai looks sadly at the thermometer and it's 30C in the room
05:46 PM JT-Shop: ah heat index 105F for you
05:47 PM Tom_itx: looks like i gotta get the mill working again
05:49 PM JT-Shop: what's broke on it?
05:50 PM Tom_itx: lcnc
05:50 PM Tom_itx: the gui
05:50 PM Tom_itx: i installed the debian ver but haven't tried it. still gotta move some files over
05:52 PM JT-Shop: I gave up and I'm installing Linux Mint 17.3 32bit on the plasma to see if I can get master to build
05:53 PM Tom_itx: you got more patience than me when it comes to that
05:58 PM JT-Shop: sometimes I wonder...
06:11 PM LeelooMinai: Do people scrape Aluminum? :)
06:11 PM Tom_itx: i hardly see the point
06:11 PM LeelooMinai: Or it's, I don't know, too "gummy" or something.
06:12 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_itx: Well, say someone needs some flat aluminum surface, but has not proper tools.
06:12 PM LeelooMinai: has no*
06:15 PM Phiplii: I'd imagine it works
06:15 PM LeelooMinai: On one hand I think it should be easier, since you don't have to use a lot of force, but, I don't know - never seen it mentioned.
06:16 PM Phiplii: it probably doesn't hold its shape
06:16 PM Phiplii: so isn't worth it
06:16 PM Phiplii: thermal stability worse?
06:16 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, it's a small surface area though
06:16 PM Phiplii: you have an application in mind?
06:18 PM LeelooMinai: Phiplii: Thing gantry plate and square beam contact - a "butt" joint or what they are called. I need to make the end of the beam flat and square.
06:18 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLhRS5lhjwM
06:18 PM Tom_itx: apparently it's a thing.
06:18 PM LeelooMinai: So doesn't really need to be surface-plate precise, just, precise enough so the clamping force is spread nicely.
06:19 PM Tom_itx: so go forth and scrape away
06:19 PM LeelooMinai: Heh, ok, cool, need to watch
06:19 PM Phiplii: and you cant flycut?
06:19 PM LeelooMinai: Pff
06:19 PM Phiplii: would... take less time
06:19 PM JT-Shop: alum cake pans don't cut worth a crap much too soft
06:20 PM LeelooMinai: Phiplii: I have a better idea - I will just use that 10 tonn grinder I have in the corner of my room:p
06:20 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe it will work good for alu...
06:20 PM Phiplii: how would you know JT-Shop :)
06:21 PM JT-Shop: cut one the other day trying to make a rain shield for my air filter kit on the can am spyder
06:21 PM LeelooMinai: Reminds my robot wars yesterday when the commentator guy at some point screamed "What are those pincers made from, aluminum foil?!"
06:21 PM JT-Shop: would have been better off using a drag knife I think
06:22 PM Tom_itx: can-am been working good since the engine swap?
06:22 PM LeelooMinai: I have one knofe that looks like a claw - I love it at cutting thin stuff, since I feel safe and under control.
06:22 PM LeelooMinai: knife*
06:23 PM JT-Shop: yea, had a tiny leak on the floor after returning from spyders on the bayou dunno what that was
06:23 PM MrHindsight: JT-Shop: repair or upgrade engine swap?
06:23 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm...
06:23 PM Tom_itx: internal sump quit
06:23 PM Tom_itx: iirc
06:24 PM MrHindsight: ouch
06:24 PM Loetmichel: [evil scientist laugther] I LOVE this pump spray bottle with 50% clear windex and 50% Isopropyl alc in it... just "shot" fly #4 out of the air today... i just wonder why they come in today in such numbers. must be the open balconiy door and the darkness outside while here is light.
06:24 PM Tom_itx: left him stranded on the Mo river bridge iirc :)
06:24 PM JT-Shop: engine crapped out on the I310 bridge over the Mississippi River while under construction and only 3 lanes
06:24 PM roycroft: sometimes i really dislike apple
06:24 PM roycroft: i'm disasembling part of my lathe
06:24 PM roycroft: and i wanted to take pictures as i wen
06:25 PM JT-Shop: then engine was a wreck, dunno how it got me over the bridge
06:25 PM Tom_itx: well wrong river...
06:25 PM roycroft: but my ipad complained that it had no storage and would not let me take pictures
06:25 PM roycroft: so i tried to sync it to my mac pro
06:25 PM roycroft: but it refused, saying that the version of itunes on my mac pro is too old
06:25 PM roycroft: so i tried to install a new itunes
06:25 PM MrHindsight: https://www.rotax.com/en/products/rotax-powertrains/details/rotax-991-v-twin.html
06:25 PM roycroft: but it won't install because the os is too old
06:25 PM roycroft: so i just deleted a bunch of crap off my ipad
06:25 PM JT-Shop: clutch bearing went out and clutch housing rubbed on housing creating lots of fines that plugged up oil pump
06:25 PM roycroft: but that did not free up any storage
06:26 PM roycroft: so i decided to sync it to my macbook pro
06:26 PM roycroft: it refused, saying itunes was too old
06:26 PM roycroft: i updated itunes
06:26 PM LeelooMinai: Seems like scraping aluminum is easy mode - the guy just holds a tiny tool at angle...
06:26 PM roycroft: then it said i needed to transfer my itunes account from my mac pro to my macbook pro
06:26 PM roycroft: so i said "go for it"
06:26 PM roycroft: and it deleted half my crap
06:26 PM roycroft: and then backed up what was left
06:26 PM JT-Shop: I hate i
06:27 PM roycroft: and then insisted on upgrading ios
06:27 PM roycroft: i've spent about an hour just trying to free up some space to take some pictures
06:27 PM LeelooMinai: lol, probably some digital rights protectio or who knows what.
06:27 PM JT-Shop: ohh White Rabbit one of my favorites
06:27 PM Tom_itx: i hate I too but i may be forced to get one
06:27 PM Tom_itx: software package i need only comes on that platform now
06:27 PM Tom_itx: sucks the big one
06:28 PM roycroft: my phone forced me to "upgrade" the other day
06:28 PM roycroft: and after i did, voicemail was broken for two days
06:28 PM MrHindsight: the motor in the new (old) Clausing burned up after the first project on it
06:29 PM roycroft: it appears to have finished
06:29 PM roycroft: and i have 4GB free now
06:29 PM roycroft: so yay for that, i suppose
06:29 PM MrHindsight: got 2 new 3p 2hp motors yesterday for $70 for the pair
06:29 PM * roycroft gets back to what he was actually trying to do
07:50 PM almstwrking is now known as almostworking
08:18 PM kyle___: no lathe this month, heh
08:18 PM kyle___: spent the fun money on a new m&p shield 9mm
08:19 PM Wolf_: baby sized fun
08:19 PM kyle___: you got it
08:19 PM kyle___: but that $75 mail-in rebate
08:19 PM Wolf_: I played with my friends one at the range a couple weeks ago, annoying to shoot
08:20 PM kyle___: I rented one and liked it
08:20 PM kyle___: more than the beretta I tried, actually
08:20 PM Wolf_: i’m not a big beretta fan either
08:21 PM kyle___: yeah, too clunky
08:21 PM Wolf_: and I kinda hate glocks, but I own two and use one of them for 3 gun/uspsa ;p;
08:21 PM kyle___: nice
08:21 PM kyle___: I'll probably buy a glock 17 next for some handgun target shooting, but I wanted a decent self defense piece for the meantime
08:22 PM Wolf_: for that I have a glock 33 (357sig)
08:22 PM kyle___: would you recommend it over the 17?
08:22 PM kyle___: oh you meant self defense
08:23 PM kyle___: glock 33 isn't much bigger than an m&p shield, nice
08:23 PM Wolf_: not really lol, unless you are planning to shot through car doors/windsheilds
08:23 PM Wolf_: *shoot
08:23 PM kyle___: yeah, the 17 fits my hand well and has a nice long barrel
08:24 PM kyle___: sorry, 17L
08:24 PM Wolf_: I run a G35 for 3gun
08:26 PM Wolf_: I need to figure out some sort of 9mm shell casing sorter
08:28 PM kyle___: do you reload?
08:28 PM Wolf_: yeah
08:28 PM Wolf_: http://i.imgur.com/wQ2skn7.jpg
08:28 PM kyle___: sounds fun, was thinking about getting some equipment for it
08:28 PM kyle___: nice
08:29 PM kyle___: you could pick out the steel ones pretty easily
08:29 PM Wolf_: http://i.imgur.com/dZbHwYI.jpg?1 this is the problem
08:30 PM kyle___: is there a difference aside from the primers?
08:30 PM Wolf_: that ledge/step in the case
08:30 PM kyle___: oh, okay
08:31 PM kyle___: different masses? maybe some sort of tuned spring lever
08:32 PM Wolf_: too little weight diff inconsistent weight between makers
08:32 PM kyle___: makes sense, sounds like a tough problem then
08:34 PM Wolf_: almost thinking optical or a feeler arm down in to the case
08:34 PM Wolf_: but doubt that I could figure out a optical system
08:35 PM kyle___: maybe! opencv is pretty simple to set up on a raspberry pi
08:37 PM Wolf_: hmm, build something to sort them by head stamps then =)
08:37 PM kyle___: that actually doesn't sound too difficult
08:38 PM kyle___: I could probably code it for you if you're not a programmer
08:39 PM Wolf_: I’ll have to look in to what sorta setup to make first, only have 12-13 gallons of 9mm to be sorted right now
08:39 PM Wolf_: and about 15 gallons of 223
08:39 PM kyle___: lemme know if you'd like help
08:43 PM Wolf_: right now I just plan to load the crap and figure the de priming pin nut will cause a loading press stoppage when I hit one w/ the step
08:56 PM Crom: hmmm cnc pantarouter?
09:07 PM nubcake is now known as nubcake_
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10:18 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, just watched some guy on YT removing galvanization with some weed killing product, that is more or less like concentrated vinegar. Anyone used something similar?
10:23 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
10:28 PM pfred1: just burn galvanization off with a torch
10:29 PM LeelooMinai: ...
10:29 PM pfred1: just make sure you don't breathe while you're doing it
10:29 PM LeelooMinai: Great idea - burn it with a torch so you don't get poisoned later when welding it:p
10:30 PM pfred1: it is the only way I've ever been able to get rid of it
10:30 PM pfred1: but I've forgotten to hold my breath sometimes too so I have gotten the fever
10:30 PM roycroft: simple green is a pretty good paint remover
10:31 PM pfred1: zinc ain't quite paint
10:31 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I could jsut use Hcl or abrasive methods
10:31 PM roycroft: no, i wasn't referring to that
10:31 PM pfred1: I never had any luck trying to grind it off
10:31 PM roycroft: sorry
10:31 PM roycroft: i just came in from the shop
10:31 PM pfred1: it looks like it works
10:31 PM roycroft: i've been cleaning parts of my lathe in my new ultrasonic cleaner
10:31 PM pfred1: but it always ends up releasing fumes
10:32 PM roycroft: and adding simple green softened the paint pretty well and removed some of it
10:32 PM pfred1: zip strip is the best paint remover
10:33 PM LeelooMinai: I have HCl in the basement - I guess I could use it. Presumably even normal vinegar, which is 5% or so (?) solution will work too, but slower - longer than 24 hours.
10:33 PM pfred1: it is the only paint remover I've ever used that I'd say works
10:34 PM pfred1: I've used the off brand paint removers and they ain't worth the cans they're sitting in
10:34 PM roycroft: i'm planning on removing the paint so i can repaint the parts
10:34 PM roycroft: but today's goal was just to clean them up nicely
10:34 PM pfred1: if you really want the paint off buy zip strip
10:34 PM LeelooMinai: Well...
10:34 PM roycroft: i still have to figure out how to remove the oil cups with the ball bearing seals without damaging them
10:34 PM roycroft: they're just pressed in
10:34 PM pfred1: I guess on metal you can just wire wheel the hell out of it
10:35 PM roycroft: but pressing them back out i'm not sure about
10:35 PM LeelooMinai: Depending on paint - heat gun works ok too.
10:35 PM roycroft: small parts can go in the media blasting cabinet
10:35 PM pfred1: but fore real zip strip just bubbles paint up
10:35 PM roycroft: i did the tailstock today
10:36 PM LeelooMinai: Sounds wonderful, but who knows what's inside - probably some nasty toxic stuff:)
10:36 PM pfred1: then there's two methods you can use the tons of steel wool or scraping
10:36 PM roycroft: i need to work on the half nut engagement, which requires removing the saddle, so i'm going to clean up and repaint as i go
10:36 PM roycroft: i've used chemical strippers before
10:36 PM roycroft: i'm fairly adept at removing paint with them
10:36 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai yeah well I try to refrain from chugging zip strip while I'm working with it
10:37 PM roycroft: and i tend to do a lot of scraping with hardwood or plastic scrapers
10:37 PM pfred1: I know sometimes it is difficult to resist the temptation
10:37 PM roycroft: everything but the lathe bed and headstock can go in the media blaster for final cleanup at the end
10:37 PM roycroft: and most of the stuff will fit in my ultrasonic cleaner
10:37 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: If the paint bubbles, there is probably a lot of stuff released into the air, so... I don't know if not drinking it guarantees safety:p
10:38 PM pfred1: well I'm 52 and I'm still standing
10:38 PM pfred1: I've refinished a lot of shit in my years too
10:38 PM roycroft: i don't remember the brand, but i've used a citrus-based paint stripper that works brilliantly if you give it tiem
10:38 PM roycroft: time
10:38 PM pfred1: just filter the fumes with a lit cigarette
10:39 PM roycroft: apply the stripper heavily, put parts in a plastic bag overnight to keep the stripper from drying out, and the paint comes right off
10:39 PM pfred1: oh yeah zip strip takes a minute to work
10:39 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: I am glad you did not drop dead, but it's not really a good argument...
10:39 PM pfred1: you lay it on and it is like a gel then it blisters the paint up after a moment
10:39 PM roycroft: i don't mind if it takes more time if it's less noxious
10:40 PM pfred1: it's yoru time
10:40 PM pfred1: for me it is more the effort and the results
10:40 PM roycroft: it's not like i'm standing there watching it the whole time
10:40 PM roycroft: i just apply the stuff, put the parts in a bag, and walk away
10:40 PM pfred1: nah i want it done yesterday
10:40 PM roycroft: the next day i scrape/wipe them off
10:41 PM pfred1: I don't think zip strip is for you then
10:41 PM roycroft: being impatient like that will give you a heart attack :)
10:41 PM pfred1: zip strip is only if you want it clean i nthe next 10 minutes
10:41 PM LeelooMinai: zip strip R.I.P :p
10:42 PM pfred1: big box stores don't even carry zip strip
10:43 PM roycroft: i have plenty of things to do
10:43 PM pfred1: I have to buy it at ace
10:43 PM roycroft: i can get something started, walk away from it overnight, and work on something else
10:43 PM LeelooMinai: Probably because it's too toxic for an averegeperson...
10:43 PM pfred1: I like stuff done
10:43 PM pfred1: probably because it is too expensive for them to sell at a profit
10:44 PM pfred1: because zip strip ain't cheap
10:44 PM pfred1: that's it's one down side
10:45 PM pfred1: but the other shit I've used sucks so bad comapred to it that I am willing to pay the premium
10:46 PM pfred1: stripping paint is not my idea of a good time
10:46 PM roycroft: i used to us an aviation paint stripper on automotive paint that worked like zip strip
10:46 PM roycroft: extremely toxic, it would burn on skin contact (quickly), but it ate through just about any paint in just a few minutes
10:47 PM pfred1: why would you ever want to strip automotive paint?
10:47 PM roycroft: i hated working with that stuff
10:47 PM roycroft: but it did the job
10:47 PM roycroft: to repaint
10:47 PM roycroft: without more buildup
10:47 PM pfred1: yeah not a good idea
10:47 PM pfred1: that's why they make sealers
10:47 PM roycroft: huh?
10:48 PM pfred1: I've done body work in a pro body shop and taking panels down to bare metal was something we tried to avoid
10:48 PM roycroft: sure, but sometimes it's the right thing to do
10:48 PM pfred1: it is just not good to explse the metal to the atmosphere
10:49 PM pfred1: there's a product you use if you do but you're better off just not doing it
10:49 PM pcw_home: Methylene Chloride is a fantastic solvent but the fact its converted to
10:49 PM pcw_home: Carbon monoxide in the bloodstream somewhat dims my enthusiasm
10:49 PM LeelooMinai: Seems it's mostly (80%) Methylene Chloride
10:49 PM roycroft: you just need to shoot primer on it right away, after it's prepped
10:49 PM pfred1: nah there's a conditioner you're supposed to use
10:49 PM pfred1: it turns the metal blue it's rpetty cool
10:50 PM MrHindsight: it's cold roll
10:50 PM roycroft: there are many ways to prepare sheet metal for paint
10:50 PM roycroft: there is no one correct way
10:50 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: "It may be carcinogenic, as it has been linked to cancer of the lungs, liver, and pancreas in laboratory animals." <- sounds yummy
10:50 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai yeah well none of that ever happened to me
10:50 PM MrHindsight: I have panels that may take days before it gets primer
10:51 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: ...
10:51 PM pfred1: cancer is genetic
10:51 PM MrHindsight: cut-n-pasting new metal into old panels
10:51 PM roycroft: you can coat it with zinc phosphate to keep it from rusting in the interim
10:51 PM roycroft: even straight phosphoric acid will help
10:51 PM roycroft: there are a number of things one can do
10:51 PM MrHindsight: I just flood my entire shop with nitrogen and wear a spacesuit
10:52 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: You forgot to finish the sentance - cancer is genertic damage:)
10:52 PM pfred1: no getting cancer is genetic
10:52 PM MrHindsight: never had a rust spot pop back out :)
10:53 PM pfred1: MrHindsight I never had a rust spot pop out off a place where i kept the paint on a panel either
10:53 PM roycroft: i'll start taking my parts up to the space station to strip and repaint
10:53 PM pfred1: coincidence? I think not!
10:53 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Who told you that nonsens? :)
10:53 PM roycroft: i'll just open the cargo bay and get to it
10:53 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai no one had to I've jut see na lot of peole die of cancer
10:53 PM MrHindsight: pfred1: you just didn't wait long enough
10:54 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: What?
10:54 PM MrHindsight: 40 years old is a new car for me
10:54 PM pfred1: after a while yo urealize some people are just predisposed to the illness
10:54 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Now not sure if you are trolling or being serious...
10:54 PM pfred1: oh i am being totally serious
10:54 PM pfred1: you're just beign a whiner dipshit
10:54 PM MrHindsight: doody head
10:55 PM LeelooMinai: Right, because I like to check what's inside the chemicals I use...
10:55 PM pfred1: go ive in a fucking plastic bubble
10:55 PM MrHindsight: <-- not being serious
10:55 PM pfred1: oh this will give me cancer
10:56 PM pfred1: maybe
10:56 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: brew anything lately?
10:56 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Also, saying that "cancer is genertic", is just silly and not true, so, I kind of felt obliged to test if you mean it:)
10:56 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai bullshit I've known people to die of lung cancer that enver smoked anything in their lives
10:57 PM LeelooMinai: And that is supposed to prove what?
10:57 PM pfred1: they were simply predisposed to the illness
10:57 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Your reasoning is so faulty that I am still not sure if you mean it...
10:57 PM pfred1: my uncle Joe smokes liek a stack from the time he was 10 til he was 84
10:57 PM pfred1: he died of pneumonia
10:58 PM pfred1: he wasn't predisposed to the illness
10:58 PM LeelooMinai: Anyone knows pfred1 better than me? :p He is just trolling me, isn't he? :)
10:58 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai how old are you?
10:58 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: What does it matter...
10:59 PM pfred1: thanks for answering that question
10:59 PM LeelooMinai: I don't see how my age has anything to do with whether cancer is generic or not...
10:59 PM LeelooMinai: genetic*
11:00 PM LeelooMinai: I could be 10, and still be right correcting that statement.
11:00 PM pfred1: well what I've been reading recently seems to back up my personal observations and what I've been saying
11:00 PM MrHindsight: I'd rather hear someone go on and on about kids these days
11:00 PM pfred1: yout chances of getting cancer are linked to your DNA
11:00 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Not sure what you have been reading, but it's not very scientific imo.
11:01 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai you're a doctor on the cutting edge of cancer research?
11:01 PM pfred1: do tell
11:01 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: That's just predisposition to certain damage.
11:01 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: It's not cutting edge anything. It's known for long time now what causes cancer.
11:02 PM pfred1: yeah weaklings
11:02 PM pfred1: people that can't keep their genetic shit together
11:03 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Nice trolling:)
11:03 PM pfred1: I went to school with a girl that died right after we graduated of cancer
11:03 PM pfred1: she didn't live that summer
11:04 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
11:04 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I mean for your sake, I hope you are trolling:(
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: ah much better
11:04 PM pfred1: why I don't care when I die or how I die
11:04 PM pfred1: I can't believe I've gotten this far
11:05 PM pfred1: I sure as hell never want to live my life worrying about dying either
11:05 PM pfred1: because everyone does it
11:05 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: I have no problems with that:)
11:06 PM pfred1: there's only two things you can count on in life and that's death and taxes
11:06 PM pfred1: you can only cheat one of those too
11:07 PM pfred1: I just read another classmate of mine died recently
11:07 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: There are some things one can do to avoid increasing the risk of getting cancer, same as a risk of getting a Darwin award in general:)
11:07 PM pfred1: in his obit it said that he died suddenly
11:08 PM pfred1: it also said he was a great father and was athletic
11:08 PM pfred1: I didn't really know him in school
11:09 PM pfred1: 53 and he's gone goodbye
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: "In people with pre-existing heart problems, exposure to DCM can cause abnormal heart rhythms and/or heart attacks, sometimes without any other symptoms of overexposure."
11:10 PM pfred1: yeah probably wise to use in a well ventelated area
11:11 PM LeelooMinai: lol
11:11 PM LeelooMinai: How about not at all: "In the European Union, the European Parliament voted in 2009 to ban the use of DCM in paint-strippers for consumers and many professionals."
11:11 PM pfred1: fuck those cucks
11:11 PM pfred1: I livei n the United States of freedom!
11:12 PM pfred1: Europe is a lost cause
11:12 PM LeelooMinai: You talk like some Trump supporter from South - I don't believe you are serious:)
11:12 PM pfred1: we need to put up a travel ban from all of Europe
11:13 PM pfred1: that's where the 911 attackers came from
11:13 PM pfred1: Germany
11:13 PM pfred1: oh I am a total Trump supporter
11:13 PM pfred1: fuck the rest of you maggots
11:13 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Are you like, er, sober btw? :)
11:14 PM pfred1: MAGA!
11:15 PM pfred1: Trump is doing great things for us like getting us out of that climate treaty
11:15 PM LeelooMinai: Meh, trolling...
11:15 PM pfred1: why the hell should we shell out 100 billion dollars?
11:15 PM pfred1: what the fuck is your rat shit country paying?
11:15 PM pfred1: nothing
11:15 PM nubcake: lol
11:16 PM nubcake: the wall just got 10 feet taller
11:16 PM nubcake: :3
11:16 PM LeelooMinai: Right, instead put a trillion of few into military:)
11:16 PM pfred1: yeah it is funny if it's not your money
11:16 PM nubcake: it is?
11:16 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Please tell me you don't believe any of what you wrote...
11:17 PM pfred1: I do believe that treaty was not good for my country
11:17 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: There is no "your country" any more in case you did not notice...
11:18 PM pfred1: what?
11:18 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: It's a country of few people that know how to troll masses at this point.
11:18 PM pfred1: I am an anti-globalist
11:18 PM pfred1: I don't want my country to be like the rest of the world
11:19 PM pfred1: you do your thing and we do ours
11:19 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: You want it to be a joke to the rest of the world?
11:19 PM nubcake: yet most things being imported from china?
11:19 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai hey if that's what gets you through the day laugh it up
11:20 PM pfred1: we certainly laugh at teh rest of the world ourselves
11:20 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Because nowadays that's how it is seen - a corrupted mess with politics and the leader that would not even be good enough for a B grade comedy.
11:21 PM LeelooMinai: Kind of a "land of stupid" - not sure why anyone would want that for a country.
11:21 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai hey I'm all for the stock market going up another 3 trillion since he's been in office
11:21 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Things like that are good preductors of the upcoming collapse, you know that, right?
11:22 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai land of stupid? Get off our Internet!
11:22 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: I am just saying how other countries see it - just in case you think that they admire what is going on.
11:22 PM pfred1: look I could give two shits what anyone else thinks
11:23 PM LeelooMinai: Well, sometimes it's worth to listen.
11:23 PM pfred1: why?
11:23 PM pfred1: the USA is the greatest nation this planet has ever known
11:23 PM LeelooMinai: Because, if one person laughs, that's probably nothing, but if half the world does, maybe there's something to it?
11:24 PM pfred1: pfft we're worth more than the rest of the world is
11:24 PM nubcake: in debt ?
11:24 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: That's what Romans though too - guess what happened to them.
11:24 PM pfred1: nubcake we carry that debt because unfortunately we can afford to
11:25 PM nubcake: yeah, if you could "afford" debt, that'd mean you'd be able to reduce it tbh
11:25 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai that's why we keep our military strong
11:25 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Won't help you if you willb e eaten from inside and that's exactly what seems to be happening.
11:25 PM pfred1: think about it who's going to make us pay?
11:25 PM pfred1: you and what 4 planets of your combined armies?
11:26 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: You have already people divided in half by now. You will just self-destruct probably.
11:26 PM nubcake: think about nobody's gonna need to make you pay, if ppl can't afford sh*t anymore cause of the value?
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: At this point your only chance is that the BS your government is shoving onto people will cause too strong reaction to take over everything.
11:28 PM Valen: when china puts trade sanctions on the US and blocks exports that'd be exciting
11:28 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai gee then I guess half of us can only beat the rest of the world two times over?
11:28 PM nubcake: Valen, was about to say that :'D
11:28 PM pfred1: Valen perhaps
11:28 PM nubcake: not even thinking of china closing down foreign facilities
11:28 PM pfred1: but does China really ship us anything we absolutely need?
11:28 PM roycroft: there's no use arguing with simpletons
11:28 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: The military is meaningless if you cannot keep your own area together.
11:29 PM roycroft: just put them on /ignore and move on with life :)
11:29 PM nubcake: pfred1, u.s. flags for example
11:29 PM pfred1: we're not going to starve after all
11:29 PM nubcake: and how about electronics ?
11:29 PM nubcake: no need of smartphones, computers and shizzle ?
11:29 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Are you sure? :) I heared that farmers in US have problems because they lost a lot of workers after deportations:p
11:29 PM pfred1: do we need electronics? we can produce those oruselves too if we really need to we did invent them after all
11:30 PM nubcake: pfred1, you can't afford to
11:30 PM nubcake: thanks to outsourcing
11:30 PM pfred1: the guy that made the world's first transistor was living in my home town when he did it
11:30 PM LeelooMinai: Right, like Apple is producing their stuff in US, etc. ... Or are they?...
11:30 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: By this time China can do electronics fine, don't worry:)
11:30 PM pfred1: nubcake we could afford to if we had to we don't now because it is more economical to outsource it
11:30 PM nubcake: oh wait, doesn't apple say "designed in u.s. assembled in <insert_cheap_production_country_here> ?
11:31 PM nubcake: pfred1 you couldn't because the money already goesto the military
11:31 PM pfred1: nubcake we have plenty more money
11:31 PM nubcake: yeah, keep printing more, doesn't make you "have more"
11:31 PM pfred1: oh but it does we have the value to back it up
11:32 PM nubcake: not really to be honest
11:32 PM pfred1: both in natural and human resources
11:32 PM pfred1: oh really
11:32 PM nubcake: not in gold though ?
11:32 PM pfred1: why not?
11:32 PM nubcake: or oil?
11:32 PM pfred1: we're teh number one energy producer on the planet
11:32 PM nubcake: well oh you could go on with phracking ?
11:32 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: And producer and pollutant too.
11:32 PM LeelooMinai: I mean consumer*
11:32 PM pfred1: no I think China has that over us now
11:33 PM nubcake: but chinas population is quite higher than the u.s.
11:33 PM LeelooMinai: China put trillions of dollars into green energy investment, and they are one of the most commited countries in the Paris agreement...
11:33 PM nubcake: so no point there?
11:33 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai then how come they weren't paying?
11:34 PM LeelooMinai: So China with respect to US is world leader in that area now.
11:34 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Paying what?
11:34 PM pfred1: in the Paris Agreement
11:34 PM pfred1: they are ranked second tier so they did not pay in
11:35 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: I just wrote that they are fully commited and pledged to support the agreement.
11:35 PM pfred1: while the US was expected to come up with 100 billion
11:35 PM pfred1: sure for the price of nothing
11:35 PM pfred1: it is pretty easy to get on board with not paying anything
11:35 PM pfred1: we're on board for that now too
11:35 PM pfred1: we're paying just as much as China is nothing
11:36 PM nubcake: yet your country isn't investing half as much into that energy source as china is
11:36 PM pfred1: so?
11:36 PM nubcake: so china is still doing more to help with that than the u.s.
11:36 PM pfred1: maybe we don't need all that energy?
11:36 PM nubcake: maybe you don't get the point of the whole thing
11:36 PM pfred1: oh i get the point
11:36 PM nubcake: oh i see that
11:37 PM nubcake: yipping and yapping about china not paying into the paris agreement, yet investing #1 world into renewable energy sources
11:37 PM pfred1: when we develop cold fusion maybe we'll tell the rest of you cucks to fuck off this time?
11:37 PM nubcake: like the rest "you" developed?
11:37 PM pfred1: because it is obvious how yo uall view us anymore
11:37 PM nubcake: oh wait...
11:37 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: You think that the Paris agreement is about some bussiness investement - it's not really... More advanced countries are supposed to help other.
11:38 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai we don't need your help
11:38 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I was kind of thinking that US is the more advanced one, but maybe you are right:)
11:39 PM nubcake: LeelooMinai, not anymore if you'd ask me
11:39 PM pfred1: the world apology tour is ovr now
11:39 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, by now US is not a leader of anything - more like a tumor on Earth
11:40 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai good
11:40 PM nubcake: by the way, what did the u.s. actually develop by themselves?
11:40 PM nubcake: from a view of an anti globalization person
11:40 PM pfred1: nubcake electronics computers networks
11:40 PM nubcake: not at all :'D
11:41 PM pfred1: yeah we really did
11:41 PM nubcake: you might want to reread on british mathematician turing, german leibnitz siemens etc.
11:41 PM pfred1: that's why standard electronics pitch is a tenth of an inch on center
11:41 PM pfred1: because we set the standard
11:41 PM nubcake: nothing the u.s. invented
11:41 PM nubcake: sorry to say
11:42 PM pfred1: they made the first transistor 3 miles fro mwhere I grew up
11:42 PM nubcake: japanese, german, british companies did that, all the u.s. did there was to mass manufacture what others developed
11:42 PM pfred1: Dennis Ritchie went to my high school too
11:42 PM nubcake: and some others of course
11:42 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Not any more:) Big EDA packages, like Altium, switched to metric as the main unit by now:)
11:42 PM nubcake: so? that proves nothing but you went to a highshool the inventor of c went to aswell
11:43 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai well good for them to be Johnny come latlies
11:43 PM Valen: If china stopped shipping *everything* it shipped to the US tommorow there wouldn't be a USA in about 3 months I think
11:43 PM nubcake: first programmer? british female mathematician if i remember correctly
11:43 PM pfred1: Valen none of it is crap we couldn't do without
11:43 PM pfred1: we wouldn't starve that's for sure
11:44 PM Valen: If they also told all the other smaller nations to join the trade sanction or they would also be sanctioned it'd probably be faster
11:44 PM LeelooMinai: Well, ok, to be fair US by now is probably 50/50 in terms of reasonable people. So, Richie could be cool, who knows - maybe he did not think that his country is superior and can go "full retard" without consequences.
11:44 PM pfred1: beng as we have 80% of the worlds arable land
11:45 PM LeelooMinai: Not for long it seems:)
11:45 PM Valen: How do you think you will go when all the power distribution parts that are made in china stop coming
11:45 PM pfred1: all that matters is now
11:45 PM Valen: the tractors stop
11:45 PM pfred1: we can make all that stuff here
11:45 PM nubcake: pfred1, she didn't go to your highschool, did she? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace
11:45 PM pfred1: nubcake I don't run ada
11:45 PM LeelooMinai: I read that DuPont already manged to poison water in a city with some teflon ingredient they dumped into river.
11:45 PM Valen: you can build an entire infrastructure to build everything needed in 3 months? that's pretty good
11:46 PM LeelooMinai: Because who needs EPA regulations and agreements, etc.
11:46 PM pfred1: Valen yeah we probably can we pretty much did just that in world war 2
11:47 PM pfred1: the US fleet ended the war with 72 aircraft carriers
11:47 PM LeelooMinai: Seems some people are ok with their country becoming a pariah on Earth - weird.
11:47 PM pfred1: the enemy never had more than 6
11:47 PM nubcake: why did it wait so long if it was so almighty ?
11:47 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai that's the thing Americans don't give a shit about the rest of the world
11:47 PM pfred1: that's yoru problem
11:48 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Some do...
11:48 PM pfred1: fuck 'em they can leave
11:48 PM LeelooMinai: The onese that notice that there's one Earth
11:48 PM LeelooMinai: ones*
11:48 PM pfred1: Americans came from all ovr the world because they wanted ot get to a better palce
11:49 PM pfred1: they left all that shit behind
11:49 PM nubcake: yet they made it even worse
11:49 PM Valen: when all the people who'se jobs depend on selling shit in wallmart are now unemployed, and all have their guns they will resort to violence to feed their children
11:49 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: That "fuck others" strategy is suicidal, not sure why you don't see that.
11:49 PM pfred1: not my problem
11:49 PM nubcake: more your problem than it is ours
11:49 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, but your childrens... Or you don't care?
11:49 PM Valen: when your neighbours shoot you to raid your fridge it is your problem
11:50 PM pfred1: no it isn't I'm doing fine
11:50 PM pfred1: pfft
11:50 PM LeelooMinai: Looking into mind of a typical american is scary:(
11:50 PM nubcake: pretty narrow mind :(
11:50 PM pfred1: good you should be scared
11:50 PM LeelooMinai: It's like an abbyss.
11:51 PM nubcake: pfred1, why would i be scared?
11:51 PM nubcake: just feeling sad for people not being able to think clearly
11:51 PM pfred1: nubcake that is for you to figure out
11:51 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: That's not the kind of fear you imagine. It's more of a sad realisation that causes depression:)
11:51 PM nubcake: pfred1, not at all scared why would i be?
11:51 PM pfred1: we're not running a charity
11:52 PM Valen: it's easy to prove he's an idiot
11:52 PM Valen: pfred1: is there any way that somebody could prove you wrong?
11:52 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Yes you are. You are running charity for few % of people in your country that have power and money.
11:52 PM pfred1: Valen if God is all powerful can He make a rock so big he cannot move it?
11:53 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai no that's al ottery
11:53 PM pfred1: one folks try to win
11:53 PM Valen: I take it that's a no then?
11:53 PM Valen: nobody could ever convince you that you are wrong?
11:53 PM pfred1: Valen you tell me
11:53 PM pfred1: Valen produce compellign evidence
11:53 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: So, you are basically for people that are assholess enough to be able to amass obscene amounts of money?
11:54 PM Valen: we all know there is no evidence you would believe
11:54 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai absolutely
11:54 PM pfred1: I am all for whoever achieves success
11:54 PM Valen: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ce/2a/c6/ce2ac61d2d70c817af0c70d412c1d27a.jpg
11:54 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: E, I don't believe you - I think you are trolling:>
11:54 PM pfred1: more power to ya
11:54 PM roycroft: john steinbeck said that the reason socialism never took off in america is because the poor don't see themselves as the oppressed proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires
11:54 PM roycroft: that's pretty much the mentality of the trumpeters
11:54 PM roycroft: the joe the plumber types
11:55 PM pfred1: roycroft rags to riches it happens
11:55 PM pfred1: I know plumbers that are millionaires
11:55 PM pfred1: plumbing is a very lucrative trade
11:55 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: You are either not believing that seriosly, or it's some kind of Stokcholm syndrom, or somehing weird.
11:55 PM roycroft: "if only we would get rid of all the things i hate i would be rich"
11:56 PM pfred1: free market capitalism is the only system that works
11:57 PM nubcake: the only system that works for a period of time
11:57 PM LeelooMinai: Works to what means? Collapsing like US eventually? :)
11:57 PM nubcake: as history prove
11:57 PM nubcake: until ppl fuck each other over for "money"
11:57 PM pfred1: nubcake what stops capitalism from working and what works better?
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: is that in "The Raisins of Wrath"?
11:58 PM LeelooMinai: US is becoming a perfect example of how it does not work, if taken to extreme.
11:58 PM roycroft: the idiot scream about "freedom" and "capitalism", when in fact we have none of that here
11:58 PM pfred1: it's working for me
11:58 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: How do you know?
11:58 PM roycroft: no, it wasn't in grapes of wrath
11:58 PM nubcake: roycroft, lol freedom is actually a good one :'D
11:58 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai how do I know what?
11:59 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: That it "works" for you.,
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: If you're in trouble, or hurt or need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.
11:59 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai well let's see I have a lovely house on a few acres of land I'm healthy comfortable and well fed.
11:59 PM pfred1: I'd say I'm doing OK