Jun 16 2017
12:40 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, my vaccum cleaner sucks. I found it in the basement, seems to be for carpet cleaning, but it has this tiny 2 inch spongy disk between the motor and the canister that gets clogged in no time:/
12:42 AM LeelooMinai: I mean my CNC/drill press/etc vacuum cleaner.
12:42 AM LeelooMinai: I need some non-clogging modern one probably.
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: somebody put this motor into it previously :( http://www.ebay.com/itm/5K481-GP-Mtr-CS-ODP-1-1-2-HP-1725-rpm-182-4/391563600917
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: heh, found a new old stock 3p 2hp for $20
02:53 AM * Loetmichel is a bit weird sometimes... started 39h ago with season one episode one of "GRIMM"... i am now at season four episode 12... :-)
03:54 AM nos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVSB2Mo_PMY
03:54 AM nos: "
03:54 AM nos: How to electropolish aluminum
03:54 AM nos: "
04:14 AM IchGucksLive: Morning from Germany
04:14 AM IchGucksLive: unpresedented problems this morning with johnDeer 8400
04:15 AM IchGucksLive: hydraulik failure
04:15 AM IchGucksLive: what a miss
04:17 AM IchGucksLive: JesusAlos: how is the heat
04:18 AM IchGucksLive: im off to garden
04:40 AM JesusAlos: A lott warm we are nearby 25 degrees, with a lot humidity :(
05:31 AM jthornton: morning
05:49 AM XXCoder: booo
06:25 AM Deejay: moin
06:27 AM miss0r2: new vise finaly cam.. the unboxing: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20170616_124203-ah0g5LSZ.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20170616_124247-XEGHf391.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20170616_124317-K8PTsHGA.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20170616_124521-wBPzTxPQ.jpg
06:27 AM miss0r2: Now its time to do a quick inspection for precision, and stick it in the mill :D
06:28 AM XXCoder: pretty different allright
06:29 AM miss0r2: different?
06:29 AM XXCoder: than kurt
06:31 AM miss0r2: Absotutly. This is the design i've always trusted
06:31 AM miss0r2: almost 10000dan clamping force
06:33 AM XXCoder: https://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq313/ditch_digger/tools/IMG_20120722_120649.jpg
06:33 AM XXCoder: I use that all time at work
06:33 AM XXCoder: not lately though as I run a tiny machine now
06:35 AM miss0r2: kurt does make nice equipment. no question. The upside of this one is, it had it on 14 hour notice :)
06:36 AM XXCoder: indeed
06:37 AM XXCoder: that OM is annoying the heck out of me
06:37 AM XXCoder: it unbroke itself
06:37 AM miss0r2: damn.. apparently I don't have an allen wrench that fits the bolts in the steady jaw
06:37 AM miss0r2: OM ?
06:37 AM XXCoder: then re-broke itself and unbroke itself shortly after that
06:37 AM XXCoder: wheee
06:37 AM XXCoder: the adventures of office mill
06:37 AM XXCoder: maintance guy told me just fuck it keep running as tool changer will always complete even when running roughly
06:38 AM XXCoder: job is very late
06:38 AM XXCoder: boss and coworker is slowly making new fixture so job can be ran on robodrill so can run 4 at a time
06:38 AM XXCoder: and MUCH easier to maintance and clean
06:39 AM miss0r2: nice
06:39 AM miss0r2: damnit! I don't have a 12mm allen wrench in my collection
06:39 AM miss0r2: I skip from 10 to 14
06:40 AM XXCoder: doh. use something 2mm as shim
06:40 AM XXCoder: had to do that before
06:40 AM sync: haha miss0r2, I had the same problem with the fribosa
06:41 AM miss0r2: I realy rather wouldn't on this new equipment. I will see if I can get one locally NOW :D
06:41 AM miss0r2: sync: that is just annoying as hell
06:42 AM miss0r2: damnit! all the local shops that are 'close' only have up to 10mm
06:42 AM miss0r2: WHAT GOOD ARE YOU THEN!
06:42 AM XXCoder: shim.
06:43 AM jthornton: what kind of vise is that?
06:43 AM archivist_herron: grind a bit off a 1/2" allen key
06:44 AM miss0r2: its a Kemmler ATI-150
06:44 AM miss0r2: althou... It seems its made by diesella
06:45 AM archivist_herron: or have you got a 1/2" drive allen key, car tools place
06:45 AM miss0r2: archivist_herron: then i'll be down one 1/2" allen key
06:45 AM miss0r2: :)
06:45 AM archivist_herron: but must play NOW
06:46 AM archivist_herron: finding a local 1/2" drive one may be faster
06:46 AM jthornton: interesting jaw design
06:46 AM XXCoder: goodbye, loan #2
06:47 AM miss0r2: jthornton: What i've learned to trust over time.
06:47 AM XXCoder: 2 down 5 to go
06:49 AM jthornton: looks like a better vise than any of my machines could use lol
06:49 AM miss0r2: jthornton: its not that crazy this one. Its in the cheap end of good equipment.
06:50 AM miss0r2: i'm sticking it on a clapped out cnc from '86.. :]
06:50 AM jthornton: I just have kurt knockoffs lol
06:51 AM jthornton: I have one of these https://www.glacern.com/gsv_690
06:52 AM miss0r2: archivist_herron: I just found a 1/2" drive 12mm in a local store :]
06:52 AM archivist_herron: :)
06:52 AM XXCoder: looks like rehash of kurt yeah
06:52 AM miss0r2: jthornton: That looks nice actualy. I just like these jaws - if you know how to use them. They draw down the part somewhat
06:53 AM jthornton: can't remember the name of the other two I have but look the same
06:53 AM jthornton: that's what I thought looking at them that they pulled down a bit
06:53 AM miss0r2: well, if you loosed some lockdown screws, you can use the spring
06:54 AM miss0r2: Most of the time I just give the workpeice a little whack with a deaddlow hammer, to set it on the parallels
06:54 AM miss0r2: But this feature can come in handy
06:55 AM miss0r2: I am a bit diserpointed in this vise alrealy... i've payed pretty good money for it, but they haven't cleaned out all the schmoo
06:57 AM jthornton: that's pretty much what I do get the part snug and give it a whack with the dead blow then tighten a bit more
06:58 AM XXCoder: I own only one vise lol
06:58 AM XXCoder: and its a drill vise I use as vise on my cnc router when I need it. only one low profile enough!
06:58 AM miss0r2: jthornton: Dangerous to tighten after using the deadblow... Thats a pretty serious source of error
06:58 AM jthornton: how is that?
06:59 AM sync: because the yaw will deform more and push the part up
06:59 AM miss0r2: every time you tighten it, it has a tendancy to lift a bit. Well, if you make sure that you cannot move your parallels after tightening it, you're good
07:00 AM miss0r2: using parallels is a great test for this
07:00 AM XXCoder: some parts I lightly tighten, tap then final tighten
07:00 AM jthornton: yea I check the parallels last and if they move I look close at the material as it might not be square
07:01 AM miss0r2: jthornton: well, in my opinion - the last thing you should do with the workpeice is give it a tab with a hammer
07:01 AM miss0r2: as in: the last step
07:03 AM miss0r2: but, if you are getting good results your way, I shouldn't judge :)
07:03 AM miss0r2: I need to go for a drive to get my 12mm allen wrench. later
07:25 AM dan2wik: Is it possible for a stepper to have a voltage rating? I have one supposedly rated 170v and it only vibrates slightly
07:27 AM archivist_herron: what voltage are you using
07:28 AM dan2wik: 24v I think
07:28 AM archivist_herron: you wont achieve the correct current
07:28 AM jthornton: look at the Stepper specific info section on the wiki for lots of good info. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
07:53 AM miss0r2: There we go. I got it apart... You would not believe how much schmoo is in there! :-/
07:54 AM sync: well you get what you pay for
07:55 AM miss0r2: sync: That is true. But it was 687EUR... so not gutter cheap
07:57 AM sync: well, compared to the original one it is pretty cheap
07:59 AM miss0r2: Absolutly :) But for that price you'd think they could spare a few EUR to have a chinaman clean it out?
07:59 AM sync: but then they would make a few € less profit
08:00 AM archivist_herron: the muck is anti rust treatment for transit :)
08:00 AM miss0r2: yeah
08:00 AM miss0r2: archivist_herron: I'm talking about chips and grinding dust, caught inside the threads and cavities
08:02 AM archivist_herron: I think they assume you have to clean all the anti rust off so they dont bother cleaning, just cover in more gunk
08:06 AM miss0r2: but its just such a fscking hassle cleaning it out, when the grinding dust'n chips are mixed with the hardwax for transport...
08:22 AM miss0r2: its actualy pretty substantial amounts here. They didn't even use compressed air to empty the bottom threads
08:23 AM miss0r2: Now I have all the parts submerged in kerosine... Will return to look at them later, once they have soaked a bit
10:34 AM phipli: morning
10:35 AM JT-Shop: morning
10:36 AM * archivist points at the clock GMT
10:36 AM phipli: Being doing things
10:36 AM phipli: tis only 3pm gmt
10:37 AM phipli: need a 10mm high piece of stock to hold the tool in the right place
10:37 AM phipli: took the tailstock to bits, removed the paint someone had put between the mating surfaces and put it back together closer to alignment
10:38 AM phipli: still too high
10:38 AM phipli: but square now at least :)
10:38 AM archivist: see if sloping (headstock too)
10:38 AM phipli: I checked it withdrawn and extended
10:39 AM phipli: looks to be square
10:39 AM phipli: so... headstock...
10:39 AM phipli: the difference is a lot - looks about 1mm
10:40 AM archivist: I have seen mismatched on a lathe made up from others
10:40 AM phipli: as far as the history of this one is known it should be same...
10:41 AM phipli: I guess I could get the base of the tailstock skimmed
10:41 AM archivist: shim the headstock up
10:41 AM * JT-Shop wonders where he saved Andy's thread spreadsheet???
10:41 AM archivist: its on the web
10:41 AM phipli: archivist: would that screw up alignment?
10:41 AM phipli: obviously not if you're suggesting it
10:42 AM archivist: which is high
10:42 AM phipli: tailstock
10:42 AM JT-Shop: I found it :)
10:42 AM archivist: I should webify my thread data one day, its all on paper mostly
10:44 AM phipli: archivist: I re-aligned the headstock using an enlarging adaptor straight in the headstock taper
10:44 AM JT-Shop: I guess a M19x1 is not in any standard but I can get that tap on amazon lol
10:44 AM phipli: there is definitely a wobble in the spindle, so it has taken a whack at some point
10:45 AM phipli: at about 200mm from the end of the taper the wobble is about 0.03mm
10:45 AM roycroft: i think that thread is used in gunsmithing, jt-shop
10:45 AM archivist: some of the morse tapers are not very standard
10:45 AM roycroft: i just ran across a reference to m19x1.0 the other day, but i forget where
10:45 AM phipli: JT-Shop: very fine thread
10:46 AM archivist: JT-Shop, 1mm at any dia is a "standard"
10:46 AM phipli: archivist: original literature describes it as MT2
10:46 AM roycroft: my tailstock is mt2
10:47 AM phipli: this thing is MT2 at both ends.
10:47 AM archivist: I have plenty of 18mm x1 in stock
10:47 AM roycroft: headstock taper is mt5
10:47 AM phipli: bit irritating as all my existing tools were MT3
10:47 AM archivist: I have mostly mt2
10:47 AM roycroft: one reason i got that machine
10:47 AM roycroft: i like having a nice big spindle bore
10:48 AM phipli: roycroft: it is a small lathe, for the age and size, MT2 is actually big... :)
10:48 AM archivist: clean the bore while you are at it, check for rust and picking up marks
10:48 AM phipli: archivist: how would you recommend?
10:48 AM phipli: I've shoved an oily rag in it and my finger...
10:48 AM archivist: morse taper reamer helps
10:49 AM phipli: :)
10:49 AM phipli: would help if the lathe was straight?
10:49 AM archivist: pinky and slow rotation to detect roughness
10:49 AM roycroft: be careful with that reamer though
10:51 AM archivist: I use it held by fingers to feel
10:52 AM roycroft: you can get a morse taper "wiper"
10:53 AM archivist: I have a test bar chinesium grade and it does not fit the taper well at all
10:53 AM roycroft: which is a plastic device that can be used to clean up any grit/grease/whatever on your taper
10:53 AM roycroft: it might be useful to use one of those to clean things up before reaming
10:54 AM archivist: I have never put the handle on to cut the socket
10:55 AM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222047022343
10:55 AM roycroft: there's an interesting one
10:58 AM roycroft: i'm not sure what the cleaning strips are, but they look like white scotch-brite material
10:59 AM archivist: I noticed the missing important detail too
10:59 AM JT-Shop: the threads are on a for a 3/4" hole push button
11:01 AM archivist: dont the buttons come with nuts?
11:01 AM roycroft: archivist: i had the thought that etching in a tray that sits in my ultrasonic cleaner might work out nicely
11:01 AM roycroft: i can hold temperature to whatever i want (50 degrees is recommended for iron(iii) chloride)
11:01 AM archivist: might get sufficient agitation
11:02 AM roycroft: and the ultrasonic action would move gas bubbles away from the surface nicely
11:02 AM roycroft: yes
11:02 AM roycroft: a friend had a concern that it might affect the mask though
11:02 AM archivist: if not good it may be cleaned off :)
11:02 AM roycroft: i suppose an experiment is in order
11:03 AM roycroft: i'm going to use the toner transfer method for the mask
11:03 AM roycroft: and after the toner is on the brass, i'll heat the brass to ~200 degrees from below to help bond the mask to the metal
11:03 AM roycroft: i think that should help a lot
11:04 AM roycroft: and i've ordered some of that plastic film that adheres to toner, so i should have a non-permeable mask when all is done
11:04 AM archivist: or rough the surface then add mask
11:05 AM roycroft: yeah, i'm not sure what surface finish would be best for toner adhesion
11:05 AM roycroft: certainly not highly polished
11:06 AM roycroft: brass plate should be here in a few days, as will the plastic film
11:06 AM archivist: acid etch
11:06 AM roycroft: i have everything else now, so hopefully in a week or so i'll be able to start experimenting
11:07 AM roycroft: i'm going to start with the iron(iii) chloride solution
11:07 AM roycroft: but i have some hcl and h2o2 in stock, so i can give that a go as well
11:08 AM roycroft: my black sealing wax is still en route, but i can start etching before i have the filler material
11:12 AM archivist: then you have the "fun" slaving over hot brass melting the wax on, getting the heat right, not boiling the wax
11:12 AM roycroft: yes, that will be fun
11:12 AM roycroft: i'll probably use a heat gun from below
11:13 AM roycroft: or maybe my creme brulee torch
11:13 AM archivist: we used propane as the dials are large ish
11:14 AM roycroft: i have an adjustable temperature laminator, which is how i intend to do the toner transfer and the plastic film bits
11:14 AM roycroft: i could use that post etching to heat up the brass nicely
11:15 AM roycroft: if the brass is just below the melting point of the wax it should not take much to apply the wax
11:15 AM archivist: needs to be above to melt the wax
11:16 AM archivist: trying to remember how long a chapter ring took
11:16 AM roycroft: i was thinking of getting the brass evenly heated just below the melting point, then using the heat gun or torch to do the final heating
11:17 AM roycroft: the wax i got comes in little star-shaped nuggets
11:17 AM roycroft: i'm not sure how easy that's going to be to handle
11:17 AM archivist: we had sticks
11:17 AM roycroft: octagonal shaped, i guess
11:18 AM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N3P41AU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
11:18 AM roycroft: sticks might be easier to deal with
11:18 AM roycroft: but i can turn those into sticks if i want
11:19 AM roycroft: i might try shallow etching and applying some enamel paint instead of using the wax
11:24 AM archivist: at the moment I cannot find the same sticks we were using
11:24 AM roycroft: i found some at a horology supply shop after i ordered the ones i have
11:25 AM roycroft: it seems all the horology supply stores are in the uk
11:26 AM archivist: seems the market is stuffed with etsy and china suppliers, there was no wick on our sticks
11:34 AM archivist: looks like there is still a scottish supplier, but not found the wickless variety
11:36 AM archivist: ah dead http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12424942.Receivership_seals_fate_of_capital_wax_makers/
11:37 AM miss0r2: Dear god.. I have a 2mm thick layer of grinding dust on the bottom of the horisontal bores in the vise ways...
11:38 AM roycroft: in 2003 they went under
11:38 AM miss0r2: Leave it to the chinese to amaze me :D
11:38 AM roycroft: i think i found some wickless sticks, but i can't remember where
11:38 AM roycroft: ballast, miss0r2
11:40 AM miss0r2: roycroft: No damnit!
12:18 PM miss0r2: so. after 3 hours of disassembly, cleaning & reassembly - it is ready to hit the surface place to see if it holds up its numbers
12:32 PM DrippityDrops1 is now known as DrippityDrops
12:33 PM * miss0r2 does a sigh of relief. It is within 0.005mm in parallel(over 300mm) and squareness(over 100mm).
12:33 PM miss0r2: I am quite pleased. This is more than sufficient for my needs
12:44 PM * JT-Shop has a WW2 iron surface plate...
12:46 PM LeelooMinai: JT-Shop: It was dropped on someone's house? :p
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: hi
01:06 PM kyle____: hello
03:17 PM kyle____: resistance wire is an endless rabbithole
03:24 PM renesis: ?
03:25 PM kyle____: for example, the usual mode of failure is when the oxide layer cracks and the metal further oxidizes
03:25 PM kyle____: because the oxide layer has a smaller thermal coefficient of expansion
03:25 PM renesis: you have a voltage, figure out the power you want, do ohms law for resistance, find a R/m chart, cut the wire
03:25 PM kyle____: sure
03:26 PM renesis: oh
03:26 PM renesis: well just use more wire
03:26 PM kyle____: but if you want to plan for longevity or anything it's fascinatingly complex
03:26 PM renesis: thicker wire at lower wattage per length
03:26 PM kyle____: but if you're designing a commercial product, there's a limit to that :P
03:26 PM renesis: i dont think its that complex i think it just requires spending more money on resistance wire
03:26 PM kyle____: it turns out it's somewhere around 1mm diameter
03:26 PM renesis: okay right so we agree on that
03:26 PM kyle____: yeah
03:27 PM kyle____: it's easy to use, but there's much to learn under the surface
03:27 PM renesis: yeah 1mm to 2mm is what ive seen in most kilns and heaters
03:27 PM kyle____: fortunately you don't need to know all of this in order to build something with it
03:27 PM renesis: thin stuff is for ecigs and wire strippers
03:27 PM renesis: stuff you can replace it easy
03:27 PM kyle____: past 1mm is where you start getting diminishing return on wire longevity
03:28 PM renesis: right because thats a lot of oxide layers to strip off
03:28 PM renesis: also the resistance drift would be in the right direction to protect it
03:28 PM kyle____: yeah
03:28 PM renesis: with decreasing performance drawback
03:28 PM renesis: so like, could be worse least thats going for you
03:28 PM kyle____: I read about 30 pages of a sample of a textbook on the commercial application of resistance wire
03:29 PM kyle____: but the damn textbook is $250 so that's probably all I'll ever know about it
03:29 PM renesis: but like, ive seen ooooooold kilns with 1mm wire
03:29 PM kyle____: yeah
03:29 PM kyle____: for a hobbyist, it's okay to use huge wire
03:29 PM renesis: right one time, shrug
03:29 PM kyle____: the hard part for us is figuring out how much power we need
03:30 PM renesis: oh, thin wire in meshes
03:30 PM renesis: but thats not exactly a DIY part
03:30 PM kyle____: I want to melt a few kg of zinc-aluminum alloy in a reasonable time, for example
03:30 PM kyle____: I worked out that it's around 264kJ to heat it up and perform the phase change
03:30 PM kyle____: per kg that is
03:30 PM renesis: how much time?
03:30 PM kyle____: but how do I determine how much power goes from the wall into the part?
03:31 PM kyle____: ~10 minutes ideally
03:31 PM kyle____: I suppose it depends a lot on the makeup of the kiln/furnace
03:31 PM renesis: yeah thats some thermodynamics shit
03:31 PM kyle____: it would be nice to plan this out but my grasp of thermal conductivity is weak at best
03:31 PM renesis: but if youre okay with electronics, thats pretty much how its all modeled
03:31 PM kyle____: yeah
03:32 PM renesis: like, thinks transfer heat with a c/w temp rise, things radiate heat at c/m^2/s i think
03:32 PM kyle____: this is why we pay engineers to solve problems for us, heh
03:33 PM renesis: like, im pretty good with calculating IC temp rises, beyond that i mostly figuring it out from researching simulation stuff
03:33 PM kyle____: hm
03:33 PM renesis: like, the student version of solidworks i have will do thermal simulation
03:34 PM kyle____: really? maybe I'll give that a try then
03:34 PM renesis: but you have to feed it realistic radiation and thermal transfer values
03:34 PM kyle____: ah yeah
03:34 PM renesis: but you can research that pretty easy once you get the diff parameters
03:35 PM renesis: like, mostly its about thermal transfer coefficient, and radiation coefficients, between materials for certain contact and cooling condition
03:35 PM renesis: it has most of the material properties themselves loaded, but you have to feed it situational ones
03:36 PM renesis: so like, a radiation based on orientation and if there is air moving across it
03:36 PM renesis: contact resistance, in my case its a thermal transfer grease so can look it up
03:37 PM kyle____: hm okay
03:37 PM renesis: once i figured those two things out, simulations started doing expected shit and i could fine tune stuff
03:37 PM renesis: like, you could model the coil and use it as a power source, basically attach a wattage to it
03:38 PM LeelooMinai: Peeked at the discussion. Did not use it yet, but Fusion360 seems to have thermal simulation, so if someone needs something free and modern, it's there: https://i.imgur.com/JRev1Y8.png\
03:38 PM kyle____: excellent
03:38 PM kyle____: I'll probably use f360 since I already have it installed
03:38 PM renesis: fusion360 isnt totally free, few situations it is
03:38 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: Report how it went:)
03:38 PM renesis: yeah i really like it for cam
03:38 PM renesis: fucking hate the cloud only shit
03:38 PM kyle____: it's mostly free if you have a .edu email address
03:39 PM renesis: yup
03:39 PM LeelooMinai: No... it's free
03:39 PM kyle____: count on more cloud shit btw
03:39 PM renesis: if edu or 1st year startup
03:39 PM kyle____: it's a much more sound business strategy for software companies
03:39 PM LeelooMinai: I mean unmless you have business that makes $100k per year, but if you have that, you probably don't care.
03:39 PM renesis: right because it keeps you attached to them
03:39 PM kyle____: it also cuts down on piracy a LOT
03:39 PM kyle____: since you can't pirate a service (easily)
03:40 PM renesis: piracy is the best way to educate potential users
03:40 PM kyle____: great way to lose money too
03:40 PM renesis: photoshop dominates the marketplace because it works and because it was free
03:40 PM kyle____: bear in mind that I work at a company that makes a freemium online game platform :P
03:40 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it's a great strategy. No one poor will pay monthly or $$$$ once, anyways, so it's more like a free advertisment to them, since people will tend to tell others if the software is good.
03:41 PM renesis: you either have to allow piracy or have soem sort of free option
03:41 PM kyle____: yeah, anti-piracy isn't really the main motivation anyway
03:41 PM renesis: if you really want to dominate
03:41 PM kyle____: it's mostly about profit granularity
03:41 PM kyle____: and ongoing profit
03:41 PM renesis: spreading it out?
03:42 PM kyle____: yeah, it's much more reliable that way
03:42 PM renesis: instead of just trying to get that one initial sale?
03:42 PM LeelooMinai: Also, you don't really have to work online - they changed it at some point, so now you can stay offline and nothing bad really happens. Though, who cares - I want to get updates, etc.
03:42 PM kyle____: exactly
03:42 PM renesis: yeah seems like it, everyone gone that direction last 5 years
03:42 PM kyle____: it's the only way software companies can stay alive anymore
03:42 PM kyle____: it's not all bad for the consumer
03:42 PM kyle____: makes it much better for us hobbyists who don't want to commit to a $2k piece of software
03:43 PM XXCoder: online upgrades thing is bad for arcivist, expecially if such thing is locked to device.
03:43 PM kyle____: protip: you can apply to your local community college usually for a pretty small fee and most of them issue an .edu email address without you actually enrolling
03:44 PM kyle____: so you can easily get free 6 months of amazon prime, free autodesk software, etc
03:44 PM LeelooMinai: From my point of view it's good - I have free CAD+CAM, that has good usability and features, and monthly updates, community, etc. If not that I would have to pirate something or kill myself while using open source/Linux-based monstrosities.
03:44 PM kyle____: hahahaha open source CAD
03:44 PM kyle____: no offense if anyone here contributes to an open source CAD project
03:44 PM LeelooMinai: I once tried something called FreeCAD and was depressed for a week:)
03:45 PM XXCoder: kyle____: lee said free not open source
03:45 PM kyle____: blender is like the best of the open source tool offerings and the UI looks like it was designed by a special olympics committee
03:45 PM kyle____: XXCoder, see last sentence
03:46 PM XXCoder: sigh kyle why you so down on people that just happen to be born with mental defiencies?
03:46 PM kyle____: self deprecation is a useful comedic tool, I suppose
03:46 PM XXCoder: oh wait committee never mind
03:47 PM kyle____: to be fair, I probably could've left it at regular olympics committee for the same effect
03:47 PM LeelooMinai: I used Blender - imo it at least had semi-sonsistent and good looking GUI. Seen much worse. BTW, I remember when I first used it, since Linux people have OCD with keystrokes and need to assign at least 5 functions to each key, I once typed into blender text meant for IRC window, and it never was the same - it started morphing before my eyes into something unnatural:)
03:48 PM kyle____: yep, gotta love poorly documented keyboard shortcuts
03:48 PM XXCoder: personally I just use freecad for cad. works fine.
03:48 PM MrHindsight: is anyone working on an open 5-axis CAM?
03:48 PM kyle____: blender's gui style is at least consistent and not awful, but the organization seems nonexistent
03:49 PM kyle____: things are scattered or just plain absent
03:49 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Why would you do that though - a masochist? :)
03:49 PM XXCoder: nah I like constrant based cad
03:49 PM XXCoder: simple.
03:49 PM XXCoder: freecad cam is FAR from simple and messy besides
03:50 PM kyle____: I like constraint based CAD too but I like when the tool is smart enough to produce most of the constraints for me
03:50 PM XXCoder: thats always been flaw of open source software
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Hmm, can you briedly describe what constraind-based CAD works like?
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: briefly*
03:50 PM XXCoder: I never was any good on explaining lol
03:51 PM kyle____: I can give it a try
03:51 PM LeelooMinai: I want to make sure it is what I think it is.
03:51 PM kyle____: not sure what freecad does exactly, but purely constraint based CAD would be where you have no drawing tools, you just create entities and constraints
03:51 PM XXCoder: indeed
03:51 PM kyle____: constraints being things like coincident constraints, dimension constraints, etc
03:52 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but you can do this in GUI CAD too.
03:52 PM kyle____: making two entities parallel or perpendicular to each other, or maybe an angle between them
03:52 PM kyle____: yeah, fusion 360, inventor, and solidworks are all constraint based but offer abstracted tools
03:52 PM LeelooMinai: I mean in Fusion when you make a sketch, you draw things and have constraints you apply between them.
03:52 PM kyle____: like drawing a line, then it automatically creates a coincident constraint when you snap two endpoints together
03:53 PM LeelooMinai: And you use "joints" to define inter-3D-body behaviour.
03:53 PM pink_vampire: hi
03:53 PM kyle____: but they're not so pure, if you're inexperienced with CAD they still let you create underdefined sketches
03:53 PM XXCoder: hey pink_vampire
03:53 PM kyle____: or implicitly defined, anyway
03:53 PM LeelooMinai: Right, so that's why I was a bit unsure. Imo all CADs probably have something constraint-based.
03:53 PM XXCoder: or badly defined lol
03:54 PM kyle____: yeah
03:54 PM kyle____: constraints are the most common way of doing modern CAD, I would guess
03:54 PM pink_vampire: hi XXCoder how are you?
03:54 PM LeelooMinai: Well, they added a feature some time ago that will let you see what is constrained or not.
03:54 PM XXCoder: kyle____: once had one part that had weird issues, found out I missed one corner, lines was not connected together
03:54 PM kyle____: but things like photoshop technically count as CAD
03:54 PM kyle____: lol, yeah
03:54 PM XXCoder: pink woke up a little headachy but better nopw
03:55 PM XXCoder: it was completely constranted anyway. I just wish theres a way for it to show "this dot overlaps not connected"
03:55 PM kyle____: in tools like solidworks, this happens a lot because it has implicit definitions in order to show you something you can manipulate before constraining
03:55 PM kyle____: implicit definitions being like... the pixel coordinates of the endpoints of the line
03:55 PM kyle____: not useful for anything but the tool
03:56 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: did you start working on your electrical box?
03:56 PM kyle____: and since those implicit definitions exist, you can get into a situation where they LOOK connected but actually aren't
03:56 PM XXCoder: pink not yet
03:57 PM XXCoder: kyle____: yeah I bet.
03:57 PM kyle____: yeah, it's kind of a paradigm shift if you're used to vector art
03:57 PM XXCoder: I wonder if theres a way to programmically show unconnected corner
03:57 PM kyle____: where vector art is defined as curves in a relative coordinate space, but CAD sketches are defined procedurally
03:57 PM LeelooMinai: Linux people seem to love an idea of GUIs that consist of a bunch of text terminals. So maybe the first FreeCAD idea was something like using sed to edit files, but in CAD world:p
03:58 PM XXCoder: say maybe dot changes color if lines endpoints near it is all fused, otherwise different colotr
03:58 PM kyle____: solidworks has some mechanism for this but it's kind of a bandage
03:58 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: openscad
03:58 PM kyle____: where it detects open profiles that shouldn't be or whatever
03:58 PM XXCoder: its extremely powerful cad, you progrm a part.
03:59 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Afaik there's an add-in for Fusion that can detect that.
03:59 PM XXCoder: freecad has none sadly. I just attempt to fuse all corner each time now
03:59 PM kyle____: the great part about constraint based CAD is that your process is entirely reversible
03:59 PM kyle____: your part is the product of a list of actions that build on the previous ones
04:00 PM XXCoder: yep
04:00 PM XXCoder: kyle you ever tried openscad?
04:00 PM kyle____: whereas with something like blender, your part IS its current state
04:00 PM XXCoder: very interesting, that
04:00 PM kyle____: yeah, it's cool
04:00 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, well, I like in Fusion that you can rewind to any point and modify the operations or even open the window with a spredsheet like list of all the dimensions, etc. used + introduce your own variables, etc.
04:00 PM LeelooMinai: And you can supress operations and see what happens, etc.
04:01 PM kyle____: yeah, and you really start to realize the power of CAD when you can go back and adjust one variable and now you've essentially redesigned your part without any extra work
04:01 PM XXCoder: theorically yeah
04:01 PM LeelooMinai: It's a "time machine" like idea - pretty powerful.
04:01 PM kyle____: whereas with blender, you just don't do that
04:01 PM XXCoder: freecad is kind of broken there
04:01 PM XXCoder: it does not always correctly recalculate down the road from modification
04:02 PM kyle____: in a perfect world, two engineers could collaborate on mating parts and share some variables
04:02 PM XXCoder: so what I do is save new file then modifiy it then fix
04:02 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: And yet you use it:p
04:02 PM XXCoder: lee most cads wont work on my computer
04:02 PM kyle____: and someone else can modify these variables to suit an application without any work from the engineers
04:03 PM kyle____: like a motorcycle, you could change the wheel size and the front fork automatically sizes to fit it
04:03 PM LeelooMinai: Well, Fusion has great collaboration features from what I saw. You can publish project on web and you can do comparison between versions, etc. and let people see 3D annotations ,e tc.
04:03 PM kyle____: because your fork length is a function of the wheel size and so on
04:03 PM kyle____: in reality this never works out this well because humans have limited time :P
04:03 PM LeelooMinai: Not that I need them - don't have anyone to collaborate with, but I can see how teams will love this.
04:03 PM kyle____: yeah
04:04 PM kyle____: I was thinking of developing my own CAD software actually, even got started on the basics
04:04 PM XXCoder: nice
04:04 PM kyle____: the idea was that you could collaborate even on the same part
04:04 PM kyle____: and also it would work with my wacky 3d tracked pen :P
04:04 PM pink_vampire: someone know about VFD for 60K rpm?
04:05 PM pink_vampire: but one that work with 110V outlet
04:05 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: Can you see me?
04:05 PM pink_vampire: yes
04:06 PM LeelooMinai: Just checking for people who ingore me:)
04:06 PM pink_vampire: O_O why do you think I ignore you???
04:06 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: I have 110V VFD. Not 100% sure if it can handle 60k, but check GS series of drives from, er, what are they called. US company...
04:06 PM LeelooMinai: something-automation
04:07 PM LeelooMinai: automationdirect?
04:07 PM LeelooMinai: O, right, this one: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Home/Home
04:07 PM LeelooMinai: Their drives have reasonable prices, but are well made imo and good docs - worth a bit extra over chinese ones.
04:08 PM kyle____: hey this site looks useful, adding it to my bookmarks, thx
04:09 PM pink_vampire: I got the thing thet make the holes for the panel from them
04:10 PM LeelooMinai: A, forgot to say: linuxcnc has support for those GS drives through modbus.
04:10 PM pink_vampire: I need 1000HZ vfd
04:10 PM LeelooMinai: I just got cheap USB to modbus adapter from china and was rolling.
04:11 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I know mine uses 400Hz, not sure about 1000
04:11 PM pink_vampire: what is GS drivers??
04:11 PM LeelooMinai: VFD: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-10P5
04:11 PM pink_vampire: 400 is 24K rpm
04:11 PM LeelooMinai: I use it for my spindle
04:11 PM pink_vampire: Output Frequency Range 0.1-400 Hz
04:11 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that one is 0-400
04:12 PM LeelooMinai: Unfortunatelly with 110V choices are limited:(
04:12 PM LeelooMinai: I was pretty pissed I could not even get 2kW spindle
04:12 PM LeelooMinai: So had to go with 800W one
04:12 PM pink_vampire: I know the nsk go up to 60K rpm
04:13 PM pink_vampire: but the cost is 2000$
04:13 PM kyle____: life without 220v is hard for us, LeelooMinai
04:14 PM sync: pfft, stepup transformer
04:14 PM pink_vampire: I hav 220 outlet but it's not close to the machine
04:14 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I have 220 in the basement, since here it's used for dryers and I think ovens, but, to run this into my room would be some very costly enterprise involving certified "sparky".
04:14 PM LeelooMinai: sync: The problem is that you have 110V and only 15A or so per socket.
04:14 PM XXCoder: no 110v to 220v convertor?
04:14 PM kyle____: yeah I have 220v in my house but it's everywhere but the garage :P
04:15 PM kyle____: thinking of installing a 220v outlet in the garage on the dryer circuit but I don't really know
04:15 PM kyle____: because it's only rated to 30A
04:15 PM LeelooMinai: So, you cannot make more power from less power, unless you go crazy with batteries, etc.:)
04:15 PM sync: lel LeelooMinai
04:15 PM sync: just install a 30A outlet or something
04:15 PM kyle____: and I can't uprate the breaker because then the dryer is unprotected, bah
04:15 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Right, and who will replace all the cabling in the walls? :)
04:15 PM kyle____: damn upstairs laundry
04:16 PM sync: you LeelooMinai
04:16 PM XXCoder: would using upshift and downshift transformers make wiring easier?
04:16 PM kyle____: damn renting too
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: I cannot - I am not certified electrician, so that's not really "legal".
04:16 PM kyle____: one of these days I'll move back to the midwest and buy my own house so I can rip out the wiring as I please
04:16 PM kyle____: you can do it legally without being a certified electrician!
04:17 PM kyle____: just need to follow the NEC or you can't sell the structure to someone else
04:17 PM kyle____: less "illegal" and more "not advisable"
04:18 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I don't know... I can already see my mom hearing about me making modifications inside walls, again (after putting tubes in there for air and computer cables)...
04:18 PM sync: you can replace the wiring and just have a certified electrician hook it up
04:18 PM kyle____: also you're liable if someone else dies, heh
04:18 PM LeelooMinai: What if I die too? :p
04:18 PM kyle____: you could probably even do it all yourself and have an electrician inspect it
04:18 PM sync: yeah
04:18 PM sync: you can
04:18 PM kyle____: I'm no lawyer though
04:19 PM malcom2073: That depends on the area, in mine for instance, the inspector requires the permit to be pulled by a certified electrician
04:19 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I mean, yes, if I press, I can do it, but I see a lot of pita on the way.
04:19 PM kyle____: oh wait, you're in canada, right?
04:19 PM malcom2073: Best off just doing it without anyone knowing if oyu're gonna do it
04:19 PM LeelooMinai: Right, Ontario
04:19 PM kyle____: oh never mind everything I said, I have no clue about canada
04:20 PM LeelooMinai: Canadians tend to be pretty "anal" on rules like that.
04:20 PM LeelooMinai: I found out when I buried my cat in the backyard and then discovered that it maybe illegal:p
04:22 PM LeelooMinai: And when I started solar panel project, but then had no sensible way to finish it.
04:22 PM pink_vampire: how can I know way the machine getting to E stop?
04:22 PM pink_vampire: is there any log in linux cnc?
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: I think you can add debug level to command line or ini or both.
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: And then you will get messages (of dubious value) in the console.
04:24 PM LeelooMinai: Otehrwise, since there's some signal for that in HAL probably, you could investigate if there is some component that can write to files, or make simple one.
04:24 PM LeelooMinai: Or do it from python GUI even.
04:36 PM pink_vampire: what do you mean debug level??
04:36 PM pink_vampire: how do I set it?
04:36 PM pink_vampire: LeelooMinai:
04:38 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: Check out the EMC section: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/config/ini_config.html
04:38 PM LeelooMinai: Forgot what I had there, it's a bitmask I think, so 255 or whatever will output all mesages
04:40 PM pink_vampire: where it print?
04:40 PM pink_vampire: I'm not sure what you mean.
04:43 PM Deejay: gn8
04:43 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: You wanted to see messages from linuxcnc, no?
04:43 PM LeelooMinai: It will print debug info: movements, stops, things like that.
04:44 PM pink_vampire: I want to see a log with what going on with linuxcnc
04:44 PM LeelooMinai: On the console from where you launched linuxcnc that is.
04:44 PM LeelooMinai: Right, so same thing - you can redirect it to file, etc.
04:44 PM LeelooMinai: And that do tail on it to monitor.
04:44 PM LeelooMinai: Or pipe it directly, etc.
04:44 PM pink_vampire: linux cnc gayed out for no reason in the middle of the gcode.
04:45 PM LeelooMinai: I, so it's post-mortem?
04:45 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, then turn debug on and make it fail again maybe.
04:46 PM pink_vampire: ho do i run linux cnc from the terminal?
04:46 PM pink_vampire: now I have an icon on the desktop
04:47 PM LeelooMinai: pink_vampire: Check properties fir the icon - there will be command line there, just duplicate it
04:47 PM LeelooMinai: It wil be linuxcnc and path to your ini probably
04:48 PM pink_vampire: just copy it and pate it in the terminal?
04:48 PM LeelooMinai: Yes
04:49 PM pink_vampire: it is running right now..hope it will finish the part
04:49 PM pink_vampire: and then I will do it.
04:49 PM pink_vampire: it failed again
05:22 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZWV2XxuhA interesting video that includes tanning
05:29 PM TurBoss: XXCoder : How is your python?
05:29 PM XXCoder: weak. lol
05:29 PM XXCoder: my python-fu is weak
05:29 PM TurBoss: and your math?
05:29 PM TurBoss: :D
05:30 PM XXCoder: pretty good
05:30 PM TurBoss: can you help me understand some stuff?
05:30 PM XXCoder: sure
05:30 PM TurBoss: https://shaneormonde.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/webcam-laser-rangefinder/
05:30 PM TurBoss: I'm trying to read distance with a webcam + laser
05:30 PM TurBoss: i need to calibrate it
05:31 PM XXCoder: pretty cool. looks like it depends on trig
05:32 PM TurBoss: Oo
05:32 PM TurBoss: I know about triangles
05:32 PM TurBoss: :)
05:34 PM TurBoss: I modified the code a bit for better python 3 compatibility and some numpy old style
05:34 PM TurBoss: it works but measures wrong
05:35 PM TurBoss: XXCoder : any good news?
05:36 PM TurBoss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtI5SFyyB2A
05:36 PM TurBoss: also the guy did this video
05:36 PM TurBoss: :D
05:37 PM XXCoder: cool though I wonder why yours measures wrong
05:37 PM TurBoss: maybe my focal len is diferent
05:37 PM TurBoss: the webcam specs indicates the pfc but in mm
05:37 PM TurBoss: not in pixels
05:38 PM JT-Shop: hey XXCoder
05:38 PM XXCoder: hey
05:39 PM JT-Shop: looks like a pretty simple python program
05:40 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:40 PM XXCoder: not too sure why his is off
05:40 PM XXCoder: maybe its a simple coding error
05:40 PM TurBoss: http://dpaste.com/16Y1BMZç
05:40 PM TurBoss: this is mine
05:41 PM TurBoss: seems that needs calibration
05:41 PM TurBoss: but not sure how to tweak
05:42 PM JT-Shop: page not found, I find http://paste.ubuntu.com/ the best place to paste code 0 ads
05:42 PM TurBoss: oops
05:42 PM TurBoss: remove the last ç
05:42 PM TurBoss: http://dpaste.com/16Y1BMZ
05:42 PM TurBoss: here is near the return key
05:43 PM JT-Shop: prob a math error I'd guess
05:43 PM JT-Shop: math is a struggle for me lol
05:43 PM TurBoss: not calibration?
05:43 PM XXCoder: so you has fixed h and pfc
05:44 PM TurBoss: h is the distance from the laser to the webcam
05:44 PM TurBoss: and pfc is just a reminder from webcam specs
05:44 PM TurBoss: specified in milimeters
05:45 PM XXCoder: theta = 0.0011450 * dist + 0.0154
05:45 PM TurBoss: yep
05:45 PM XXCoder: suggest add ( ) in that multi some programming languages does weird stuff
05:46 PM XXCoder: theta = (0.0011450 * dist) + 0.0154
05:46 PM TurBoss: ok
05:46 PM TurBoss: checking
05:46 PM XXCoder: after all, please excuse my dear aunt sally
05:48 PM XXCoder: so your calculation is ultimately tan(0.0011450 * dist + 0.0154) * h * 100
05:48 PM XXCoder: but doesnt that website use arctan
05:48 PM XXCoder: inverse function
05:48 PM TurBoss: yep
05:48 PM TurBoss: but my laser is on the other side
05:49 PM TurBoss: it measures reversed
05:49 PM XXCoder: make your x minus
05:49 PM TurBoss: ok
05:49 PM TurBoss: :|
05:50 PM TurBoss: (h / tan_theta)*100 # to mm
05:50 PM TurBoss: like this?
05:50 PM XXCoder: D = h/tan(theta)
05:51 PM XXCoder: so yeah
05:52 PM TurBoss: I need to flip de video upside down
05:52 PM TurBoss: :D
05:53 PM XXCoder: yeah like enstein said, everything is relivate
05:53 PM XXCoder: cant spell worth crap, those words
05:53 PM TurBoss: :D
05:57 PM JT-Shop: I usually know when I've misspelled a word it turns red...
05:58 PM XXCoder: with anger!
06:02 PM JT-Shop: lol
06:02 PM XXCoder: :)
06:02 PM JT-Shop: looks like I might get some real work for a change!
06:03 PM XXCoder: nice
06:03 PM JT-Shop: yea, place I used to work for has a new manager and he likes me :)
06:12 PM TurBoss: XXCoder: okay i managed to rotate the video stream
06:12 PM TurBoss: now goes in the good direction
06:13 PM TurBoss: but continues measuring wrong :(
06:13 PM TurBoss: hhehehehe
06:13 PM XXCoder: how does it do it wrong
06:14 PM XXCoder: constant distance off or exponental growth of error or what
06:14 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
06:14 PM TurBoss: hmm
06:15 PM TurBoss: hmmmmm
06:15 PM TurBoss: let me a min
06:15 PM TurBoss: to fix something
06:15 PM TurBoss: :D
06:16 PM JT-Shop: I need a good knurling tool for the CHNC
06:20 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/Dorian-CNC-125-2-R-CNC-Modular-Knurling/dp/B00O129ZOK/ref=sr_1_19?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1497653419&sr=1-19
06:20 PM JT-Shop: that looks like a good one lol
06:21 PM XXCoder: cheap too lol
06:21 PM JT-Shop: aye
06:21 PM JT-Shop: you ever use one?
06:21 PM XXCoder: nah
06:22 PM XXCoder: very rarely use a lathe and its always simple part
06:25 PM JT-Shop: I think I have one somewhere lol
06:27 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if this works http://www.micromark.com/Diamond-Pattern-Knurling-Tool-1-2-Inch-Shank
06:27 PM XXCoder: looks strightforward type
06:27 PM XXCoder: and 1% price of other one
06:27 PM JT-Shop: yea self centering
06:27 PM JT-Shop: lol
06:28 PM * JT-Shop wonders why the wife is late getting home...
06:29 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmNjSxQKJE nice
06:30 PM JT-Shop: looks better than a regular push stick
06:30 PM XXCoder: lol he talks about the fancy pusher thing.
06:31 PM XXCoder: hes ripping on it pretty badly. I bet he wont get promos with that now
06:31 PM JT-Shop: https://smithy.com/machining-handbook/chapter-3/page/25
06:31 PM XXCoder: other channel shows promo pusher a LOT
06:32 PM XXCoder: it got to be anannoyance
06:32 PM XXCoder: hes smart to keep an master blade to cop off
06:32 PM XXCoder: copy
06:33 PM XXCoder: heyy now hes sick of it, making cnc program for that LOL
06:33 PM JT-Shop: yea wife is home with pizza!
06:33 PM XXCoder: yay! send me some/1
06:34 PM XXCoder: guess he dont need that master blade now
06:34 PM TurBoss: resigned
06:34 PM TurBoss: for now
06:36 PM XXCoder: I still don't get why you use tan in place of arctan as discribed at that site
06:38 PM TurBoss: I just c&p the site's code
06:39 PM JT-Shop: isn't tan the reciprocal of arctan or something like that?
06:39 PM TurBoss: sorry I have no idea what i'm doing
06:39 PM * JT-Shop emails XXCoder some pizza after I cook it
06:39 PM XXCoder: let me use my trusty ti-84
06:41 PM XXCoder: nope JT-Shop
06:41 PM kyle____: man I have a bunch of projects for this weekend
06:41 PM JT-Shop: atan?
06:42 PM XXCoder: yeah inverse function of tan
06:42 PM XXCoder: if you graph tan and arctan it is basically rotated 90 degrees on graph
06:42 PM JT-Shop: I know just enough to know I don't know much about it
06:42 PM XXCoder: you give x and get orginial angle with arctan
06:43 PM kyle____: atan(tan(x)) = x
06:43 PM XXCoder: yep
06:43 PM kyle____: the reciprocal of tangent is called cotangent, 1/tan(x) = cot(x)
06:43 PM kyle____: not quite as useful though
06:43 PM XXCoder: lol forgot that one. yeah
06:44 PM kyle____: has anyone tried making a spot welder out of a microwave transformer here?
06:44 PM XXCoder: useful when you want one less divide when calculating billion times
06:44 PM kyle____: apparently if you replace the secondary coil with 1.75 turns of 2awg you get a good spot welding current
06:45 PM XXCoder: guy used microwavce trabnsformer to make pretty damn strong magnetic hoist
06:45 PM * JT-Shop thinks of the photo of the guy in Africa welding with battery cables and no shield
06:45 PM kyle____: hah
06:45 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbDTzhX1QQg
06:46 PM kyle____: wow, strangest thing happened while watching that
06:46 PM XXCoder: hardon?
06:46 PM XXCoder: lol
07:02 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to -o by cherryh.freenode.net
07:02 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +ct-s by cherryh.freenode.net
07:02 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by cherryh.freenode.net
07:02 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +bbbb by cherryh.freenode.net
07:02 PM cherryh.freenode.net changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based open-source CNC control. | Latest releases: 2.7.9 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
07:02 PM kyle____: lol, a machinist vise isn't supposed to be a consumable? damn, I've been doing it wrong
07:02 PM andypugh: Talking about safety-ties, you can’t talk about magnets without seeing Colin Furze’s walking-on-the-ceiling boots :-)
07:02 PM kyle____: yeah, those are awesome
07:02 PM kyle____: in the context that colin furze is a nutter
07:02 PM XXCoder: kyle____: not really, though jaws yes
07:02 PM XXCoder: andypugh: interesting trick. I wonder how it works
07:03 PM andypugh: I think if you use a vice enough times you will drill it. I haven’t yet, but I do maybe 3 hours machining a week, and only a small proportion is drilling
07:03 PM d42 is now known as Guest44631
07:03 PM andypugh: Actually, I am wrong. I do actually have a small countersink in the “knob” of my toolmaker vice.
07:03 PM kyle____: http://www.pocketnc.com/pocketnc/pocket-nc
07:03 PM XXCoder: yeah. most vises at work is damaged though most is also quite old
07:04 PM kyle____: this is interesting, just learning about this now
07:04 PM XXCoder: newer ones all look clean and are just few years old
07:04 PM XXCoder: kyle____: it is nice but EXPENSIVE! and look at it milling. not too strudy
07:04 PM XXCoder: someone menioned noising
07:04 PM kyle____: oh yeah
07:05 PM kyle____: looks to be made of aluminum
07:05 PM kyle____: maybe after my lathe is done, I can try something along these lines made of zamak...
07:05 PM kyle____: definitely won't cost me $4000
07:05 PM andypugh: I think pocket-nc is cool. It run LinuxCNC too (well, actually, Machinekit).
07:06 PM XXCoder: I think its cool. just not wirth my money.
07:06 PM kyle____: the $4k pricetag is really off-putting, for sure
07:07 PM kyle____: it sounds a lot like someone didn't optimize well enough, surely it could be cheaper
07:07 PM andypugh: On a machine that size, and running the size of cutters appropriate for the machine, the alumnium frame is entirely sensible.
07:07 PM kyle____: yeah, you're probably right
07:07 PM XXCoder: yeah its not designed to cut say steel
07:07 PM andypugh: You would have to pay me more that $4000 to make you one :-)
07:08 PM kyle____: hah, I'll give you that, I'm sure a lot of work goes into it
07:08 PM kyle____: I'm going to find out soon why zinc-aluminum alloys seem so underrated at least
07:14 PM andypugh: They are heavily used for all sorts of things
07:16 PM kyle____: hm, the common sentiment I see is that there's no point in using them over cast iron for machine tools
07:16 PM kyle____: indeed, cast iron is cheaper by a wide margin, and most people don't cast their own machine tools...
07:17 PM andypugh: I probbaly wouldn’t use MAZAK for a mill or lathe. Partly because cast iron makes a good slideway and zinc doesn’t
07:17 PM kyle____: yeah, this is definitely true
07:18 PM andypugh: What’s the Youngs Modulus?
07:18 PM kyle____: 96 GPa for zamak 3
07:18 PM kyle____: so right on par with cast iron
07:18 PM kyle____: less than half the brinell hardness than gray iron, so I definitely wouldn't want to use it for ways
07:18 PM andypugh: So it _ought_ to work :-)
07:18 PM kyle____: but I've been thinking about bolting cast iron ways on top of the zamak
07:18 PM andypugh: Or you could use concrete
07:19 PM kyle____: white iron or something
07:19 PM kyle____: yeah, I'm just not convinced of the dimensional stability of concrete vs zamak
07:19 PM andypugh: Might as well use linear bearings. Lots of the CNC tool makers do that anyway (on iron castings)
07:20 PM kyle____: that is true
07:20 PM andypugh: kyle___: You know of the Yeoman lathe?
07:20 PM kyle____: nope, looking it up now
07:20 PM kyle____: just kidding, I do
07:20 PM andypugh: http://flowxrgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/new-method-of-building-lathes.pdf
07:20 PM kyle____: I think this is how I ended up down the path of a gingery lathe, actually
07:21 PM kyle____: there was a guy who documented building a concrete lathe on youtube, it looked... dangerous
07:21 PM kyle____: the whole headstock support column shuddered under tool pressure iirc
07:21 PM andypugh: Well, a Mazak / Zamak Gingery would probbaly be better than an Alumiunium one.
07:21 PM kyle____: could've just been his design though
07:21 PM kyle____: yeah; I was planning on a 2x scale zamak gingery lathe
07:22 PM kyle____: much easier to melt zamak, so larger castings are feasible
07:24 PM andypugh: Go for it. Worst case you end up with a rubbish lathe. But that’s better than no lathe.
07:24 PM andypugh: Where do you intend to find the material?
07:25 PM kyle____: even if it's the worst lathe ever, I can always melt it down and make something stupid with it
07:25 PM kyle____: rotometals.com sells za-12 ingots
07:25 PM andypugh: I can find scrap aluminium all over the place (especially in the skips at work)
07:25 PM kyle____: they're about 30 minutes from me so I can pick it up in person
07:26 PM kyle____: $3/pound
07:26 PM kyle____: not great but I don't need that much
07:26 PM kyle____: but hey, I'm not doing it to be cheap, but rather for the fun of it
07:27 PM andypugh: OOh, they sell Bismuth too
07:27 PM kyle____: yeah they are very cool
07:27 PM andypugh: My China-order of tin-bismuth solder arrived today
07:27 PM andypugh: I am trying to fix pewter tankards
07:28 PM kyle____: how many weeks ago did you place the order? :P
07:28 PM andypugh: 3
07:28 PM kyle____: not bad
07:28 PM kyle____: are the tankards lead-free pewter?
07:28 PM roycroft: what do you use to remove corrosion and polish them up, andypugh?
07:29 PM andypugh: Actually, 17 days ago
07:29 PM andypugh: kyle___: Some of them might not be lead-free, some are from the 1930s
07:29 PM roycroft: i have some lidded german beer glasses/steins that do not need repair, but whose lids could use a good cleaning/buffing
07:29 PM roycroft: i was just pondering the other day what would be good to use for that
07:30 PM andypugh: We don’t polish the Union Bar ones, the more crusty and ancient looking your pot the more cachet it has
07:30 PM kyle____: pewter has an interesting history
07:30 PM roycroft: yes, mine are not ancient and collectable enough to want to forego cleaning up
07:31 PM roycroft: they're best kept as users, and cleaned up a bit
07:31 PM andypugh: kyle___: I suspect that Alchemists were involved?
07:31 PM roycroft: although i don't think i could bring myself to pour a bitter into a german beer stein
07:31 PM roycroft: so i'd have to brew a german lager or bock to use those
07:32 PM roycroft: which i need to do anyway - it's been quite a while since i did a bock
07:32 PM kyle____: just monks afaik
07:32 PM kyle____: apparently the earliest known piece of pewter is from 1400 BC
07:32 PM kyle____: from egypt
07:33 PM kyle____: not as old as bronze, but pretty old
07:33 PM andypugh: Well, that was wierd. I typoed Wikipedia and got Peter Wileman photography and found; https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/4143805 Which is me.
07:36 PM TurBoss: gn
07:36 PM XXCoder: andypugh: so youre Mr. copyright eh
07:37 PM andypugh: Photographing events and selling the photos is his job, it’s fair enough.
07:37 PM XXCoder: oh I know, just joking that you are named image copyright ;)
07:39 PM Vitran: I got an updated picture of my PLC. After (maybe) 40 hours it looks like this! Had to do a bunch of wire checks. I have 1 spare analog input left http://i.imgur.com/ULzVTA0.jpg
07:39 PM roycroft: pewter is the original pot metal
07:39 PM andypugh: Actually, that link isn’t me
07:39 PM andypugh: (or, not necessarily)
07:40 PM andypugh: https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/4143818
07:40 PM andypugh: Yes, that goes to my Ner-a-Car
07:40 PM andypugh: Some folk are far more appropriately-dressed
07:41 PM andypugh: Yes, much more the thing: https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/4143825
07:42 PM XXCoder: Vitran: looks nice!
07:42 PM XXCoder: need to do mine.
07:42 PM Vitran: thanks
07:42 PM XXCoder: andypugh: I really want to try pewler casting
07:42 PM Vitran: I found out today that the encoders on the turret have 12V output
07:42 PM XXCoder: its low enouygh that you can actually use mdf mold
07:43 PM Vitran: I did some aluminum casting with Zeeshan a few years back
07:43 PM Vitran: It's not too hard. There is also a small foundary near me that can do a casting for four cases of beer
07:47 PM andypugh: Did Zeeshan abject to being used as a casting mould?
07:48 PM XXCoder: nah not as mold, as negative mold to make molds for casting Zeeshan statues
07:49 PM Vitran: It was a maple leaf
07:49 PM Vitran: we machined a die for it
07:58 PM Cromaglious_: Re all... still heading home... in encino on the 101 folded up in the back seat
07:58 PM Cromaglious_: Fearing for my life as the kidlette is driving
07:58 PM Cromaglious_: J
07:59 PM Cromaglious_: ^h^h
08:01 PM kyle____: best of luck
08:01 PM kyle____: can't imagine being a new driver on 101, wow
08:01 PM andypugh: Remimds me of a bold claim on a sign on the A127
08:02 PM andypugh: “Flower stall next layby, full range available”
08:02 PM Cromaglious_: You just can't trust a kid driving until they've gone around corners in a 4 wheel drift and has jumped a car 5feet in the aair going over railroad tracks...
08:03 PM kyle____: living in the east bay, that's a daily occurrence for me
08:03 PM andypugh: Given that Wikipedia reckons there are 295,383 known species of flowering plants….
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: Richmond had a good set of tracks for jumping...
08:05 PM andypugh: I have only ever been driven through Richmond by one person, and that’s PCW :-)
08:05 PM Cromaglious_: When they put in the richmond bypass they made that crossing a bridge
08:05 PM pink_vampire|2: Vitran: you don't believe in bus bar?
08:05 PM andypugh: No, buses shouldn’t drink.
08:05 PM XXCoder: Vitran: nice
08:07 PM andypugh: Vitran’s image link gets “too many redirections” for me. How odd
08:07 PM Cromaglious_: Yay pulling over so my wife can drive
08:07 PM XXCoder: I used noscript so it couldnt redirect me andy
08:07 PM andypugh: Anyway, things to do tomorrow.
08:07 PM andypugh: Night all
08:20 PM Vitran: pink_vampire|2: I believe in the bus bar. I just didn't know where to buy a good one when I started
08:21 PM Vitran: I am actually redoing the wiring on that right now
08:21 PM pink_vampire|2: you can machine one very easy, or just get a decent terminal blocks
08:28 PM Vitran: At this point, I am just going to roll with it
08:29 PM pink_vampire|2: my the spindle just die!!!!
08:30 PM pink_vampire|2: all i wanted is to plunge with 11/16"
08:30 PM pink_vampire|2: (17.5mm)
08:30 PM pink_vampire|2: end mill
08:31 PM Vitran: Nooooo!
08:32 PM Vitran: Always bad news to hear when a spindle breaks
08:33 PM Vitran: A guy I worked with was an operator. They did the test and forgot that the clamps were up and broke the spindle on the machine
08:33 PM Vitran: but I am sure everyone has machine breaking stories
08:34 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire|2: what happened? it just stopped?
08:35 PM Vitran: Did you overload the spindle drive?
08:35 PM Vitran: fuse go?
08:38 PM Vitran: Is the spindle speed dial set to 0?
08:48 PM pink_vampire|2: fuse go
08:48 PM pink_vampire|2: 250v 10A
08:48 PM pink_vampire|2: I have only 250V 6.3A
09:26 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire|2: ordering more?
09:33 PM pink_vampire|2: I hope I will finish the part with the 6.3A
09:33 PM XXCoder: yeah. good thing the last fuse saved your spindle though
09:34 PM XXCoder: wonder what caused surge
09:34 PM pink_vampire|2: what do you mean?
09:34 PM pink_vampire|2 is now known as pink_vampire
09:35 PM XXCoder: if it didn't have fuse the electicity surge probabloy would have burned out your spindle
09:36 PM pink_vampire: I'm push the machine to the edge all the time...
09:37 PM XXCoder: cool
09:37 PM pink_vampire: it is fun
11:04 PM * LeelooMinai comes back from drilling/tapping session
11:05 PM LeelooMinai: I knew that that metric set screw set from China will be useful for something.
11:05 PM XXCoder: yeah?
11:06 PM LeelooMinai: Started taking screws from my rail beams and suddenly remembered that I have put sand inside:)
11:07 PM LeelooMinai: Fortuanatelly set screws came to the rescue.
11:07 PM LeelooMinai: Now I need to find MacGyver way to square the ends of those beams to high-ish precision.
11:08 PM LeelooMinai: But the only remote tool that I can see being useful is handheld belt sander:(
11:08 PM LeelooMinai: That is from the tools I have.
11:08 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe if I can somehow fix it at 90deg to some surface - I don't know.
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: Then I would feed the beam and rotate it 90 deg periodically and maybe that would make the beam end squarish, but not sure.
11:10 PM LeelooMinai: The beam is 2.5x2.5 inches in cross-section.
11:11 PM XXCoder: wonder if can use scraps to adjust it till you got nice and orgogical surface
11:12 PM LeelooMinai: orgo-what? :)
11:12 PM LeelooMinai: orthogonal?
11:12 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:12 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but scraps where?
11:13 PM XXCoder: dunno maybe wood scraps lol
11:13 PM LeelooMinai: Probably one of those disc sanders would work better, but don't have those...
11:13 PM XXCoder: rotating it would make it nice and centered but slight cone
11:14 PM LeelooMinai: Right... I have a mitre saw with alu blade, but I don't trust it to make perfect cut.
11:14 PM LeelooMinai: I mean it's ok, but not for very precise cut.
11:15 PM XXCoder: no err forgot that thing name
11:15 PM XXCoder: bandsaw cutter, kind you just put down ans it slowly cuts though metal
11:15 PM LeelooMinai: I have scrapers, surface plate and perssian blue thing, but, not sure if that's a sane plan:)
11:16 PM LeelooMinai: Right, horizontal bandsaw - those are expensive.
11:16 PM XXCoder: isnt harbour freight one $120 something but then ya not in usa
11:16 PM XXCoder: someone was talking about converting handheld one into horzional bandsaw
11:17 PM LeelooMinai: Right, somehow I have doubts that $120 one is very precise...
11:17 PM XXCoder: me either
11:17 PM LeelooMinai: "Step 5: Attach the stand with provided rubber bands":)
11:17 PM roycroft: the harbor freight portable bandsaw goes for $99
11:18 PM roycroft: i've almost bought it a few times
11:18 PM roycroft: but i keep holding out for the milwaukee
11:19 PM techrat: Get a good square and scribe.... scribe a square line, cut long and sand, file otherwise work to square by hand
11:19 PM LeelooMinai: Milwookie
11:21 PM roycroft: i have a 7x12 bandsaw, and have it dialed in to do pretty accurate cutoffs
11:21 PM roycroft: not much filing/milling is needed
11:21 PM roycroft: but a portaband would be nice to carry around
11:21 PM roycroft: sometimes it's hard to take the work to the stationary band saw
11:21 PM LeelooMinai: techrat: Right, that seems to be the most direct and labour intensive approach... Will teake a lot of time though:/
11:23 PM XXCoder: can always do the spin at sander then file off cone
11:24 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, probably I will try fixing the belt sander at 90 deg and do tests with wood.
11:24 PM LeelooMinai: The plate seems to be more or less flat there...
11:25 PM roycroft: i use a cutoff wheel on a hand grinder to cut things that are difficult to take to the band saw
11:25 PM roycroft: there are many ways to cut metal
11:26 PM * LeelooMinai shuffles the feet nervously
11:26 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: can always find where bias is, then grind most off then rotate 180 degrees, blue end, and grind till half of blue is gone
11:27 PM XXCoder: by that point you just need to sand centerline a little
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: I have no idea now if roycroft has me on ingore or not... He had, but now he talks to someone.... Is it me? Is it XXCoder? How the hell do I know:)
11:27 PM XXCoder: or third person that we both has on ignore :P
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: I wish one could know if someone has ingore on another person...
11:28 PM LeelooMinai: Because it often gets ridiculous...
11:28 PM XXCoder: (not likely I only has one person in ignore for this channel)
11:28 PM XXCoder: and mainly because he blew up at me and constantly assuming I said something when I basically just said "wtf??"
11:28 PM XXCoder: yeah I still dont know why capt blew up at me
11:28 PM LeelooMinai: I never used ignore in my life - sans obvious flooders/spammers/robots
11:28 PM XXCoder: so fuck him
11:29 PM roycroft: folks have bad days
11:29 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Right, I guess I may as well test the blue thing - once I find something squre to put on the surface plate...
11:30 PM XXCoder: sure but I didnt ignore for a week see if he would apologize. he didnt so fuck him
11:30 PM LeelooMinai: I have 123 blocks, but they are smaller than 2.5x2.5 and have holes:)
11:30 PM XXCoder: you can easily form 90 degrees with those
11:30 PM XXCoder: I used it as "90 degree" when I was adjusting my 3d printer.
11:31 PM LeelooMinai: Well, but I mean to rub the end of the beam against something - they are too small.
11:32 PM XXCoder: too bad you dont have 2 246
11:32 PM XXCoder: those are expensive'
11:32 PM LeelooMinai: Unless I do something weird, like put 4 of them so that I can put the beam verically between them and use surface plate for blue, but then I need to clamp them or something.
11:34 PM Gene_w: what app is recommended to edit gcode on linuxcnc?
11:34 PM LeelooMinai: RIght, 246 are expensive, but I think I saw something that was at 90 deg once on amazon, but forgot the name of it.
11:34 PM XXCoder: machinist square?
11:34 PM XXCoder: amazon ones reviews sometimes isnt too bad
11:34 PM XXCoder: and sometimes little bit bad like .001" across 6 inches
11:35 PM LeelooMinai: Gene_w: Probably nothing is recommended. I assume you mean just by hand. I can only tell you that I used Atom + plugins, one of them for g-code syntax highlighting and the end result was great, but you must kind of put all the plugins/features together to your liking. But the editor is pretty good.
11:35 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: No, it was like two 246 glued together
11:36 PM LeelooMinai: Gene_w: If you mean to generate g-code, I recommend Fusion360 - it's free, cad+cam, and has support for linuxcnc g-code generation.
11:36 PM XXCoder: the blocks has threads can be used to bolt em together
11:36 PM XXCoder: notepad++ for windows maybe
11:37 PM XXCoder: work we use predator which is pretty decent
11:37 PM XXCoder: not not free
11:37 PM LeelooMinai: Notapad is what I used to use, but imo that Atom thing is better.
11:37 PM XXCoder: unless you meant app in literal sense meaning phone or tablet?
11:37 PM LeelooMinai: I mean Notepad++, not the normal one:)
11:37 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: ah was about to ask lol
11:38 PM XXCoder: *app for phone/tablet)
11:38 PM LeelooMinai: lol, I wonder if in 2017 notepad can finally open linux lineended files...
11:38 PM XXCoder: dunno
11:38 PM XXCoder: know whats funny?
11:38 PM LeelooMinai: About notepad? Everything? :)
11:38 PM XXCoder: gedit, my former favorite editor, have problems figuring text formats lately
11:38 PM XXCoder: its getting close to windows notepad :P
11:39 PM LeelooMinai: E, I gave up on Linux for any desktop-related stuff - it's hopeless.
11:39 PM XXCoder: I used to use emacs all time
11:39 PM XXCoder: its amazing programming editor
11:39 PM XXCoder: oh need to look at 2 parts of same file? sure!
11:40 PM XXCoder: split window and both view same file, scroll down one
11:40 PM LeelooMinai: I once installed it to see if it's really as good as people say, but I kept loling every 5 minutes, sorry... no:)
11:40 PM Gene_w: was looking for a linux solution, not a windows solution
11:40 PM LeelooMinai: Gene_w: Ok, then sad... er, I mean sed:p
11:41 PM XXCoder: emacs
11:41 PM XXCoder: it has syntax highlight
11:41 PM XXCoder: gedit too I think
11:42 PM Tom_itx: you didn't give it a fair try
11:42 PM LeelooMinai: Gene_w: So it's for hand-editing only?
11:43 PM Gene_w: yes... quick edits of gcode
11:43 PM Tom_itx: i use the editor that came with smartcam for that
11:43 PM Gene_w: and prefer a gui interface
11:44 PM LeelooMinai: Gene_w: Atom works on Linux from what I see.
11:44 PM Tom_itx: smartcam runs in windows
11:44 PM LeelooMinai: Gene_w: I would give it a try - it's pretty nice, fully hackable/customizaable, tons of plugins, there's g-code support, etc.
11:45 PM LeelooMinai: https://atom.io/
11:46 PM LeelooMinai: Seems they have .deb, so, no problem.
11:50 PM Gene_w: so I install the .deb?
11:50 PM LeelooMinai: I guess
11:50 PM LeelooMinai: I defined colors like that: http://i.imgur.com/o2NeVpH.png
11:50 PM LeelooMinai: So I have XYZ following RGB as in Fusion
11:50 PM roycroft: vi is still my favorite editor
11:51 PM roycroft: nvi is what i currently use, actually
11:51 PM LeelooMinai: vi is for aliens with 16 fingers
11:51 PM XXCoder: I like vi but not wow
11:51 PM XXCoder: I like emacs more
11:51 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: When I tried it, my first thought was "hello 90s again":p
11:52 PM XXCoder: lol
11:52 PM LeelooMinai: Remember opened some "dialog" and it looked so miserable and uneasthetic that I got sad.
11:55 PM LeelooMinai: Of course a proper g-code editor would have integrated preview that would update in real time, according to where you are with your cursor, had useful tools for code coprehension, visualisation, etc., but, no one will probably ever write it.
11:55 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:55 PM XXCoder: work has predatorcnc and its pretty good
11:55 PM XXCoder: windows though
11:56 PM LeelooMinai: And it's commercial, right?
11:56 PM XXCoder: didnt look "large scale commerical" but yes
11:57 PM XXCoder: light version free apparently
11:57 PM XXCoder: http://www.predator-software.com/predator_cnc_editor_software.htm
11:57 PM XXCoder: think work uses light version as we have path preview but no final part p-review
11:58 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, had a look - seems feature rich, but right, I don't know - I am not going to OCD for now, as probably I will end up using CAM output + that NativeCAM thing for most of the stuff.
11:59 PM LeelooMinai: And most edits will be either none or some trivial stuff.