Jun 12 2017
12:04 AM Crom: people around here have cap for tools at garage sales...
12:06 AM Crom: s/cap/crap/
12:08 AM TurBoss: does anyone know how many steps per rev a floppy stepper driver can have?
12:09 AM LeelooMinai: Assuming it has a stepper motor...
12:10 AM TurBoss: s/driver/motor
12:10 AM TurBoss: bad syntax
12:19 AM LeelooMinai: TurBoss: There's some info here: http://www.instructables.com/id/Floppy-Drive-Salvage/
12:20 AM TurBoss: checking
12:20 AM LeelooMinai: Seems it depends on if it is 5 1/4 or 3.5 drive, but one guy writes it's 400 steps, 0.8 deg.
12:20 AM TurBoss: mine is 5 1/4
12:20 AM TurBoss: seems to much
12:20 AM LeelooMinai: 0.9*
12:20 AM TurBoss: hmm
12:20 AM LeelooMinai: Right, kind of weird, but he seems to write reasonable things.
12:20 AM TurBoss: 2mm pich
12:21 AM TurBoss: moves one km
12:38 AM nubcake_ is now known as nubcake
12:38 AM TurBoss: gn8 or morning ...
12:38 AM nubcake: morning
01:22 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
01:24 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: ich kämpfe immer noch mit der kollektorschaltung
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: einfach nicht schnell genug
01:25 AM Loetmichel: ???
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: i will try to grab a udn2981a today
01:28 AM Loetmichel: ..."only the best and brightest, Sir!"... that wasnt the brightest idea to drive the convertible 4 hours yester(sunny)day without any sunblock... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16676 ... still: had loads of fun ;)
01:46 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: do you got solidworks in use
01:47 AM Loetmichel: no
01:47 AM Loetmichel: i just start training with Fusion360
01:47 AM IchGucksLive: that is cool
01:47 AM IchGucksLive: ive hered there is a new release that workes also on linux
01:49 AM LeelooMinai: o_O
01:49 AM Loetmichel: no idea, i only use it on windows
01:50 AM dioz: how much does a windows licrnse cost?
01:51 AM dioz: same reason i ain't never used autocad
01:51 AM dioz: $1300/year
01:51 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Free for small business (up to $100k per year)
01:51 AM dioz: gimmeafuckingbreak
01:51 AM LeelooMinai: Or hobbyists, etc.
01:51 AM dioz: windoes os oa free now?
01:51 AM dioz: is
01:51 AM LeelooMinai: Fusion360
01:52 AM dioz: how do you get the free?
01:52 AM dioz: i signed up and it gave me 30 days
01:52 AM LeelooMinai: A, you asked about Windows
01:52 AM dioz: i'm drunk all the time buddy
01:53 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: It's just below there: http://i.imgur.com/akH257b.png
01:53 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Don't drink and live imo:)
01:54 AM dioz: i ain't new to this i'm true to this
01:57 AM dioz: LeelooMinai: you self taught cad?
01:57 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Like most things - when I need something, I just learn as much as I need to start.
01:58 AM IchGucksLive: dioz: use the education version
01:58 AM LeelooMinai: I don't think there's education version - it's one version, just free if you do not make much money with it.
02:00 AM LeelooMinai: Mine has "Active Plan: Fusion 360 Ultimate, Startup" in the About dialog box.
02:00 AM LeelooMinai: So, I guess it's called Startup plan.
02:01 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: They are supposed to release sheet metal mode soon - I guess this will be good for your work.
02:01 AM dioz: bend allowance is a big thing
02:01 AM dioz: k values
02:01 AM dioz: etc.
02:01 AM dioz: freecad has a dude who makes an addon
02:02 AM dioz: but those of us in the know.... we know how to caluclate that ;)
02:02 AM dioz: inbd
02:02 AM dioz: air bending vs. coining sheet metal
02:03 AM dioz: is what i'm partially talking about
02:03 AM LeelooMinai: You will be the last airbender probably
02:03 AM dioz: doubt it
02:04 AM dioz: it's common practice
02:04 AM dioz: the young chaps look at me like i'm a retard
02:04 AM dioz: like trade work is something to be laughed at
02:04 AM dioz: yet i doubt they know how to use a micrometet
02:04 AM dioz: meter
02:05 AM LeelooMinai: It's easy - get the digital one:)
02:06 AM dioz: it's like calculating spindle speed for cutting mild steel
02:06 AM dioz: 3.82 * 80 / bit diameter
02:07 AM dioz: you got kids talking about "dabbing" or "poking" when it comes to a drill press
02:08 AM dioz: whatever the fuck that means
02:08 AM LeelooMinai: Probably pecking
02:08 AM dioz: i lol'd cause the teacher mentioned the drill doctor
02:08 AM LeelooMinai: Like a wood-pecke:)
02:08 AM dioz: he was like "i ain't hand sharpening bits"
02:09 AM dioz: we agreed that under 3/16ths we throw in the garbage though
02:11 AM dioz: LeelooMinai here's a question for you
02:12 AM dioz: compared to mild steel would you drill lead (rpm) faster or slower?
02:12 AM LeelooMinai: Slower? But I am just guessing...
02:12 AM LeelooMinai: What do you think I drill lead? :)
02:14 AM LeelooMinai: With high speed it would probably melt anyways:)
02:14 AM dioz: lead = pb
02:14 AM dioz: and you'd rpm faster
02:14 AM archivist_herron: most would punch lead
02:14 AM dioz: depends on thickness of lead as well as hole size
02:14 AM dioz: tbh
02:14 AM archivist_herron: nail straight through it
02:15 AM archivist_herron: anything else cast the holes in
02:15 AM dioz: okay. so how about drilling mild steel vs. stainless
02:15 AM dioz: faster or slower?
02:16 AM LeelooMinai: I would have to google - I never drilled stainless steel.
02:16 AM archivist_herron: stainless work hardens more so feed per rev becomes more important than rpm
02:17 AM Crom: and most SS is gummy
02:17 AM LeelooMinai: When I had to drill aluminum, I just looked up what is recommended and then did same when I had to drill hot rolled steel angles - problem solved:)
02:18 AM dioz: so.. you don't understand the basic concpets of the properties of metal?
02:18 AM dioz: interesting
02:18 AM dioz: you ever drilled a piece of wood with something other than a spade bit?
02:19 AM dioz: the bit can/will bite so much that it'll drive its way through your hole and deform it as well as bind up in your hardware
02:19 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: You are missing my point:) When I feel I need to know something down to the core, I spend my time researching, but one cannot do that with everything.
02:20 AM dioz: you miss my point. if you're unaware or all the concpets surrounding the idea how do you know what to look up?
02:20 AM LeelooMinai: Onless you concentrate on one narrow subject and spend your life there - but that's not me.
02:21 AM dioz: if thougbt A isn't even present hpw do you know to investigate it?
02:22 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Not sure why would you think that "a though isn't present"... When you do something the first time, yes, a though may be present, like "will I die"? :)
02:22 AM Deejay: moin
02:22 AM LeelooMinai: Then you google for "drilling aluminum tips" and you discover speeds.
02:22 AM dioz: lets say you're unaware of an idea. or a concept. when you look it up do you know the keywords to use?
02:23 AM dioz: much less why you're looking it up if you're unaware of it
02:23 AM dioz: but i see the likes of what you're suggesting
02:24 AM dioz: seems like a lot of re-inventing the wheel though
02:24 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: You become aware of concepts involved at the step 1: reading general recommendation for people who do it first time.
02:25 AM LeelooMinai: And then you can research those further or not - depend on many factors.
02:25 AM LeelooMinai: Imo it's a reasonable strategy:)
02:25 AM dioz: what i'm saying is without appropriate education it's a guessing game
02:26 AM dioz: there's reasons people are engineers
02:26 AM dioz: and others are not
02:26 AM dioz: sure i can google anything!
02:26 AM LeelooMinai: Not at all - you don't need to be an engineer to drill with correct speed.
02:26 AM dioz: but when you get hired places they typically have specific requirements for positions
02:27 AM dioz: "i can google good" typically only gets you so far
02:27 AM archivist_herron: HR have no clue to skill requirements
02:27 AM LeelooMinai: O, really? Like for what? Afaik in your country you can be more clueless than a 5th gradfer and be the president:)
02:28 AM dioz: my country?
02:28 AM dioz: which country is that
02:28 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: You are not from US?
02:28 AM dioz: nope
02:28 AM LeelooMinai: You sound like US person:p
02:29 AM dioz: archivist_herron: HR looks for specific items on cv's
02:29 AM LeelooMinai: But you are drunk supposedly, so maybe that has an effect...
02:29 AM archivist_herron: skill requirement for computer museum. Outlook wth
02:29 AM dioz: you don't need to be a professional in the trade to hire and fire and uphold policy
02:29 AM dioz: lol
02:30 AM dioz: LeelooMinai: so yoi value not education?
02:30 AM dioz: how did you learn to read?
02:30 AM dioz: did google teach you?
02:30 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Imo in many cases a curious person + google is superior to a person not thinking out of a box but with high education.
02:30 AM archivist_herron: education misses the skills actually needed for many jobs
02:31 AM dioz: wow. as a result of education we are where we are
02:31 AM archivist_herron: not true
02:31 AM dioz: hah yah. people are born with the ability to read
02:31 AM dioz: i forgot
02:31 AM archivist_herron: communication and innovations gets us to where we are
02:31 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: lol... actually, I tought myself to read when I was 5 by asking parents about letter, etc. And when I went to school they wanted to move me to 3rd grade because I had nothing to do there that was useful.
02:32 AM dioz: you must be autistic
02:32 AM dioz: to be that naive
02:32 AM LeelooMinai: I am naive you think? :p
02:32 AM dioz: to think that education is trivial with regards to advancement
02:32 AM dioz: lulz to the maaax
02:33 AM dioz: naive and atupid
02:33 AM archivist_herron: been through the education system, often teachers are behind the times
02:33 AM dioz: beg your pardon
02:33 AM dioz: lol. teachers teach a curriculum
02:33 AM dioz: wow
02:33 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: I think you are mistaking education/acquiring knowledge with formal education.
02:33 AM dioz: this is a dumb conversation
02:33 AM dioz: i'm going to bed
02:33 AM archivist_herron: go into the wolrd and learn, teachers are not as good as THEY say
02:34 AM dioz: teachers teach a curriculum
02:34 AM LeelooMinai: Poor dioz:)
02:34 AM dioz: you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. lol
02:34 AM archivist_herron: he is so naive and indoctrinated
02:35 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Well, alternativelly, maybe you underestimate others and overestimate some formal ways of doing things - who knows:p
02:35 AM archivist_herron: one thing you can rarely do is ask a teacher a technical question, you get a blank face
02:36 AM dioz: LeelooMinai: why aren't you spewing multi-million dollar inovative and novel ideas?
02:37 AM dioz: if it's so easy...
02:37 AM archivist_herron: the rich clever dicks often skip school to innovate
02:37 AM dioz: wow
02:37 AM archivist_herron: see facebook
02:38 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: lol... I think you should go to sleep. It's not even fair for me to start taking you aprat if you are under influence of mind-altering substance...
02:38 AM dioz: that's why less than 5% of musicians become famous for leas than 5% of their songs too then hey?
02:38 AM dioz: lol
02:38 AM dioz: you're so delusional
02:38 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Right, that's what delusional people often thing of others...
02:38 AM LeelooMinai: think*
02:39 AM dioz: is temple gandin your idle?
02:39 AM dioz: idol
02:39 AM * dioz snickers
02:39 AM archivist_herron: dioz, if I had powers you would be kick banned for trolling
02:39 AM dioz: archivist_herron: same to you
02:39 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: No idea who that is, and probably don't want to know:)
02:40 AM dioz: if you honestlu belive you're going to invent somrthing someday that makes you rich
02:40 AM dioz: i feel aorry for you
02:40 AM dioz: the odda are horrible
02:40 AM dioz: gnight
02:40 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: No idea why you think that has to be the goal of mine:)
02:40 AM LeelooMinai: "it's weird":p
02:41 AM dioz: the supposition that you're unique or special
02:41 AM dioz: that you're outside the current way things work
02:41 AM dioz: it's laughable
02:41 AM LeelooMinai: Er, you are not unique? What are you... an Imperial Clone now? :)
02:41 AM dioz: unique in the sense that i'm special?
02:41 AM dioz: such as you're suggesting
02:41 AM dioz: naw
02:42 AM dioz: i'm not special
02:42 AM dioz: gotta jump through the same hoops as everyone else
02:42 AM LeelooMinai: Well, if you believe you are not special, then I guess you believe you are not - what does it have to do with me though?
02:42 AM IchGucksLive: till later
02:43 AM dioz: you're suggesting your keen ability to re-invent the wheel
02:43 AM LeelooMinai: I am? Where?
02:43 AM dioz: regardless of previous understanding
02:43 AM LeelooMinai: I just wrote that when I needed to drill aluminum I looked up the speed...
02:43 AM dioz: it's the suggestiong you're making... "i can just look it up on youtube or google"
02:43 AM dioz: how do you know what to even look up? how do you know you aren't overlooking something?
02:44 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: I don't know how you manage to come to all those weird conclusions about me from that statement, but it's kind of amusing...
02:44 AM dioz: i think it's pretty naive or delusional to think you're smart enough to comprehend all the ideas with a simple google
02:44 AM archivist_herron: delusional in the extreme
02:45 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: I explained it to you: you look up the task that you attempt to do, then read about the main points and expand on what you need to or want to, if necessary. It's a valid plan and not bad imo - pretty logical to.
02:46 AM dioz: doesn't seem very reliable to me vs. specific training
02:46 AM dioz: it seems like re-inventing the wheel
02:46 AM LeelooMinai: In the past there was no internet and everything was slower in regards to assimilating knowledge/infomration.
02:46 AM dioz: i still wouldn't take a dudes word who "learned about it on the internet" vs. someone who went to school
02:47 AM dioz: which seems to be the point you and archivist_herron are arguing
02:47 AM dioz: which is laughable imo
02:47 AM archivist_herron: education has not learned the "internet" lesson yet
02:48 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Well, that's not my problem - it's just you being kind of inflexible and lacking imagination.
02:48 AM archivist_herron: dioz one can tell the educated site from the BS
02:49 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: I am sure domewhere in the long past some blacksmith was like you and was telling the aprentice that heshould stay in the village and learn from him instead of going "to them schools":)
02:49 AM LeelooMinai: somewhere*
02:49 AM dioz: yah. i'mma trust a dude who learned about it on the internet to pay with millions of dollars of ewuipment
02:49 AM archivist_herron: and getting information and techniques is why I have books too
02:49 AM dioz: vs. someone who went to school
02:49 AM dioz: which is why i said delusional
02:49 AM dioz: cause if you can't see the difference
02:49 AM dioz: you delusional!
02:50 AM dioz: play w/ millions of dollars of equipment
02:50 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: lol...
02:50 AM archivist_herron: I wanted to play with a CMM so I bought one
02:50 AM dioz: okay?
02:51 AM archivist_herron: it is how you learn to use stuff
02:51 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Seriously, seems to me it may be you trying to justify something to yourself and has nothing to do with me.
02:51 AM dioz: so you get to break your own shit and spend years attempting to learn what is common knowledge amongst the educated
02:51 AM dioz: good job
02:51 AM dioz: seems like re-inventing the wheel
02:51 AM archivist_herron: there was no CMM education in my day
02:52 AM dioz: you invented it?
02:52 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: You have no idea about me after all and you are just guessing things (most of them totally wrong,) somehow trying to prove something, but not sure what really...
02:52 AM dioz: LeelooMinai: i'm not the one making wild outlandish claims
02:52 AM dioz: stop being butt hurt
02:52 AM archivist_herron: LeelooMinai, it is called trolling
02:52 AM dioz: you think i'm talking nonsense?
02:53 AM dioz: wow. look how delusional you are!
02:53 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: I claimed I looked up drilling speed on google once - that's not that outlandish imo:p
02:53 AM archivist_herron: dioz, it is you making the wrong assumptions about us
02:53 AM dioz: the suggestion that education is not important!
02:53 AM dioz: lol
02:53 AM dioz: wow
02:53 AM dioz: you gotta be trollin me
02:53 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Who wrote it's not important and where?
02:53 AM dioz: well you don't need it cause you got the internet!
02:53 AM LeelooMinai: It was more about the ways one can educate oneself, no?
02:53 AM dioz: that was your supposition
02:54 AM archivist_herron: learning is important, who you learn from less important
02:54 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: But learning on internet is a form of education - unless you are incapable of learning at all:)
02:54 AM dioz: learning is only learning if evaluated by a credible source
02:54 AM LeelooMinai: O, really?
02:54 AM dioz: or else it's a supposition
02:54 AM archivist_herron: look at many sources before coming to a conclusion
02:55 AM LeelooMinai: I think you just redefined the definition of "learning":)
02:55 AM dioz: should i trust you to say you know how my multimillion dollar piecw of equipment works vs someone with a certificate?
02:55 AM dioz: i don't fuxking think so
02:55 AM archivist_herron: would I let a sheet metal basher at my test equipment
02:55 AM dioz: delusional
02:56 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: It's up to the employer afaik who they hire and by what criteria, no?
02:56 AM dioz: i wouldn't touch your equipment unless i knew i knew how to use it
02:56 AM archivist_herron: yes if and only if he showed aptitude
02:56 AM dioz: LeelooMinai: keep moving them goal posts
02:56 AM dioz: and i'm the troll
02:56 AM dioz: lol
02:57 AM archivist_herron: a cert does NOT prove aptitude
02:57 AM LeelooMinai: dioz: Is there in your coutry some law that one cannot hire anyone with no formal education at some level?
02:57 AM dioz: a cert proves more than no cert
02:57 AM roycroft: i disagree, archivist_herron
02:57 AM archivist_herron: not in some cases
02:57 AM XXCoder: meritocacy
02:57 AM roycroft: a cert proves aptitude at obtaining certs
02:57 AM LeelooMinai: Yes, it proves you obtained a certificate:)
02:57 AM XXCoder: certification proves person knows something. does it reflect upon reality of job? not always
02:57 AM LeelooMinai: Which may mean you have a lot of money, or many other weird things.
02:58 AM LeelooMinai: I mean look at Trump:)
02:58 AM dioz: trooolololollolol
02:58 AM XXCoder: Trump is wonderful, the best president ever
02:58 AM XXCoder: okay they left. he sucks.
02:59 AM LeelooMinai: Don't troll trolls imo:p
02:59 AM roycroft: but requiring a cert to prove aptitude is more a reflectionof the lack of aptitude of the evaluator than a validation of the cert
02:59 AM XXCoder: joking isnt trollin man heh
02:59 AM LeelooMinai: Well, one bad thing is I forgot to go to sleep...
03:00 AM LeelooMinai: Oh well
03:01 AM XXCoder: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--yE8lkD-e--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/g1gqfl0gtwdvqmzfmwjr.jpg
03:02 AM XXCoder: better pic https://dizp62k3hja4n.cloudfront.net/uploads/virgo/image/image/4894/content_Back_to_the_Future_Sleep_Alpha_Inhibitor.png
03:03 AM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: So, you think I should google that instead of going to sleep? :P
03:03 AM XXCoder: lol well
03:03 AM XXCoder: that girl was panicking
03:03 AM XXCoder: so scientist used sleep aid from future
03:03 AM XXCoder: instant sleep
03:04 AM LeelooMinai: Sounds good - I assume she woke up eventually? :)
03:04 AM XXCoder: yeah, though in what reality she woke up is in question LOL
03:04 AM XXCoder: because they dropped her off in bad present
03:04 AM XXCoder: then they went back to past to fix it
03:05 AM XXCoder: she was there in corrected persent but... they didnt bring her in car so yeah
03:05 AM LeelooMinai: Seems you would communicate well with Dave from EEVBlog...
03:06 AM LeelooMinai: He has Back to the Future plate on his wall, lots of car models from that movie, etc.
03:06 AM XXCoder: lol not that big fan of back to future but liked it
03:06 AM LeelooMinai: And probably remembers the plot to this day.
03:07 AM XXCoder: not eevery detail.
03:07 AM XXCoder: do I need to use it on you to help you sleep? lol
03:08 AM LeelooMinai: O, right, forgot again - fail. I am gone.
03:08 AM XXCoder: lol
03:30 AM pink_vampire: how is crazy glue for gluing a wound?
03:31 AM archivist_herron: super glue for flesh
03:31 AM XXCoder: it was orginially invented for that if I recall right
03:31 AM XXCoder: no strutures
03:32 AM XXCoder: but they found out theres bunch stuff that can be used for too so its marketed everywhere
03:32 AM archivist_herron: or get it stitched, or bind carefully with tape
03:34 AM pink_vampire: I got the wound glued
03:34 AM XXCoder: I had choice of glue or sturtures
03:34 AM XXCoder: I chose latter, it holds together under work condition better
03:37 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: I'm not sure what do you mean.
03:37 AM XXCoder: sew or glue
03:39 AM pink_vampire: glue
03:39 AM XXCoder: I chose sew
03:40 AM pink_vampire: glue can make issues?
03:40 AM XXCoder: yeah its little bit easier to seperate
03:40 AM XXCoder: since I was working I wanted stronger hold
03:42 AM pink_vampire: hope it will hold..
03:46 AM XXCoder: yeah should do
03:46 AM XXCoder: just dont stress it too much
03:46 AM XXCoder: off I go to buy food and eat laters
03:47 AM pink_vampire: it's on my pinky :(
03:48 AM pink_vampire: I'm taking a pic
03:51 AM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/HTt5H5m.png
03:51 AM pink_vampire: this is the wound
03:51 AM archivist_herron: pfft a scratch
03:51 AM pink_vampire: it's much deeper then it look
03:55 AM pink_vampire: better pic
03:55 AM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/85HhSs9.png
03:56 AM pink_vampire: archivist_herron:
04:03 AM archivist_herron: its stopped bleading!
04:12 AM phipli: morning
04:14 AM archivist_herron: we have to clean the boilers out tonight!
04:14 AM phipli: pink_vampire: I understand sweat used to dissolve the glue (at least years ago, not sure if they've changed it)
04:14 AM phipli: so avoiding heavy work would probably be worth it. But it will start mending soon enough anyway
04:15 AM phipli: archivist_herron: is this how long they take too cool?
04:15 AM phipli: I spent a couple of weeks working at a steam railway
04:15 AM phipli: a load of us did boiler washouts
04:15 AM phipli: but...
04:16 AM phipli: we got the steam crane - it had a vertical boiler...
04:16 AM archivist_herron: nah, we had a night off last monday
04:16 AM phipli: so we stuck the hose in the top and watched it.
04:16 AM phipli: the guys with the loco boilers were filthy by the end :)
04:16 AM archivist_herron: Loughborogh?
04:16 AM phipli: Kent and East Sussex
04:17 AM archivist_herron: we changed the points one night with a steam crane
04:17 AM phipli: That fellow I think it was : http://www.preservation.kesr.org.uk/images/wagons/133.jpg
04:18 AM phipli: only a small one :)
04:19 AM phipli: Interesting machine
04:19 AM phipli: there was a huge band-brake under the cab floor
04:19 AM archivist_herron: the one we used was a small one too
04:22 AM phipli: archivist_herron: so, someone once broke the gear for engaging the feed on my lathe and welded it back together (slightly wonky)
04:23 AM IchGucksLive: hi done with garden work doing some construction
04:23 AM phipli: it has a pin in it to engage and disengage so the web isn't just a plain web
04:23 AM phipli: it shouldn't be terrible for someone in town to make a new web for it including the spring loaded pin should it?
04:24 AM archivist_herron: which part, on the apron ore the toggle for direction
04:24 AM phipli: someone elses picture : https://i.warosu.org/data/diy/img/0010/34/1470538291652.jpg
04:25 AM phipli: so first gear left of the chuck
04:25 AM phipli: it doesn't always rotate with the shaft if the pin is out
04:26 AM phipli: actually, the input doesn't get to the chuck if it isn't engaged
04:26 AM archivist_herron: the rear shaft? that is the back gear
04:26 AM phipli: the big gear in the foreground
04:27 AM phipli: closest to the chuck
04:27 AM archivist_herron: the one on the spindle is part of the back gear, either direct through that gear or from the back gear
04:28 AM archivist_herron: there is usually a slider on it, hard to operate
04:28 AM phipli: the second shaft behind slides up and down
04:28 AM archivist_herron: or pin and slot it works in
04:28 AM phipli: and takes lumps out of your hand
04:29 AM phipli: there is a pin in the web of the gear that has been "fixed"
04:29 AM phipli: sprint loaded
04:29 AM phipli: *spring
04:29 AM archivist_herron: some you pull the pin and rotate to keep out
04:30 AM phipli: if you pull the pin out, drive doesn't reach the chuck
04:30 AM archivist_herron: yup
04:30 AM phipli: forgive me if I make a mistake, the thing doesn't run yet - this weeks project
04:31 AM archivist_herron: on my southbend that pin is in a slot
04:31 AM phipli: I'll get a picture, just a minute...
04:38 AM phipli: http://elephantandchicken.co.uk/Lathe/lathe.zip
04:40 AM phipli: I disengaged it for the close ups
04:48 AM phipli: seems it was probably an issue with them - someone else did something here : http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=1691.0
04:51 AM archivist_herron: the collar broke on yours in a similar war?
04:52 AM archivist_herron: I dont see why that person fitted the screw
04:54 AM phipli: ditto
04:54 AM phipli: I think they didn't understand how it worked
04:55 AM phipli: hang on, no
04:55 AM archivist_herron: making a a new collar that fits through the gear will give a continuous bearing rather than that bodge
04:56 AM phipli: that gear is fixed to the shaft
04:56 AM phipli: it is the belt drive ones that are free to rotate
04:56 AM phipli: how much work do you think it would be for someone to re-work mine? Worth getting a shop to look at it?
04:56 AM archivist_herron: your close ups are of the bull/spindle gear as it that link
04:57 AM phipli: yeah - handy that they have pictures of the gear out of the machine (if broken)
04:57 AM phipli: I'm guessing they had a habit of slipping and people over tightened to compensate
04:58 AM archivist_herron: it is more a setting up problem, some do it properly some assume the chuck they use is "near enough"
04:59 AM archivist_herron: there are a few fixes even fusion welding, choices
05:00 AM phipli: you can see the existing repair on mine
05:00 AM phipli: messes up the contact with the mating gear
05:00 AM phipli: it rotates, but I wouldn't use it in anger
05:01 AM archivist_herron: which image shows it best?
05:02 AM phipli: ending in 59?
05:02 AM phipli: you can see the weld around the boss
05:03 AM archivist_herron: another way is remake the gear from solid
05:03 AM archivist_herron: steel or cast iron
05:04 AM phipli: How easy would it to be to recreate the teeth? I know if you go back far enough every factory had different pitches etc. etc.
05:04 AM phipli: This thing is a 30s design
05:04 AM phipli: *20s
05:04 AM archivist_herron: to me gear cutting is easy enough,
05:05 AM phipli: But then it is your interest :)
05:05 AM archivist_herron: I need a few measurements to tell you what standard it is made to
05:05 AM archivist_herron: if any
05:06 AM phipli: I can grab one of the changewheels
05:06 AM archivist_herron: most would buy in standard cutters, only high production makes odd standards
05:07 AM archivist_herron: the bull will likely be different to changewheel
05:07 AM archivist_herron: will it roll nice in bull to check
05:07 AM phipli: just a mo'
05:09 AM phipli: rolling contact feels the same on all gears on the machine
05:09 AM archivist_herron: od and number of teeth ?
05:12 AM archivist_herron: at home I have the data on a shelf by me, here I dont
05:13 AM phipli: 2" & 6/10"
05:13 AM phipli: (why are my verniers in tenths of an inch (don't usually use that side))
05:14 AM phipli: and the gear says 50T on it
05:14 AM phipli: which is probably the teeth (but I'll count now in case!)
05:15 AM phipli: yes, 50 teeth on that changewheel
05:19 AM archivist_herron: 20DP
05:20 AM archivist_herron: fits those two dimensions, tooth angle could be 14.5 but more likely 20 deg
05:21 AM phipli: the diameter I gave was one of those that just hits the zero mark on the vernier exactly
05:21 AM phipli: so I'm reasonably comfortable with it
05:21 AM archivist_herron: as does the spec of the od of a 50 tooth 20dp gear
05:22 AM phipli: excellent
05:23 AM phipli: so would any 20dp gear mesh?
05:23 AM phipli: or does that just describe the gear size?
05:23 AM phipli: *tooth
05:23 AM archivist_herron: if the same tooth angle and profile(involute) yes
05:24 AM archivist_herron: it will be involute by the time that was made
05:25 AM archivist_herron: so better boss( or bush it to be concentric) or remake gear, choices
05:28 AM archivist_herron: or buy a wider than stock gear and machine peg and boss and bore
05:29 AM phipli: obviously starting from scratch is better in that if something goes wrong I don't end up with nothing...
05:29 AM archivist_herron: or machine blank and take to a gear cutter to cut gear to bore
05:30 AM jthornton: moring
05:30 AM phipli: google says there are these guys in Notts : http://tkengineeringandgearcutting.com/
05:30 AM phipli: morning jthornton
05:31 AM jthornton: what's up this morning
05:31 AM phipli: I was asking archivist_herron his thoughts on the bull gear on my lathe
05:31 AM phipli: it is a little bit wonky
05:31 AM phipli: :)
05:31 AM archivist_herron: but gears.archivist.info is nearer :)
05:32 AM jthornton: the one you told me someone welded up
05:33 AM phipli: thats the one
05:34 AM phipli: now with bonus pictures : http://elephantandchicken.co.uk/Lathe/lathe.zip
05:34 AM * XXCoder dont feel like opening arcives heh
05:35 AM phipli: default permissions don't let you view the directory, and I couldn't be bothered to make a page that linked / embedded them
05:35 AM phipli: basically, I'm lazy
05:35 AM XXCoder: sadly so are me
05:36 AM phipli: If you like, I could shove one of the pictures in the same directory and link directly to it? What would you like to see most? Some dodgy gear welding, or a more general overview :)
05:36 AM jthornton: they did a good job at painting the gear but a bad job of setting up the weld
05:37 AM phipli: heh
05:37 AM XXCoder: lol
05:37 AM phipli: my dad re-painted it before giving it to me
05:37 AM XXCoder: just 2 pics, overall and weld
05:37 AM phipli: (he didn't break it)
05:37 AM XXCoder: he probably strpped it, "holy shit"
05:37 AM archivist_herron: XXCoder, http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/phipli/
05:37 AM XXCoder: "lets paint and give away"
05:38 AM XXCoder: looking
05:38 AM jthornton: take it back out and repair it
05:38 AM phipli: yes - I expect I am acting as storage - I didn't get prior warning of its arrival
05:38 AM phipli: archivist_herron: has beaten me to it :)
05:38 AM archivist_herron: phipli, here fixing/modding the website
05:38 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:39 AM XXCoder: sadly I dont really know enough welding for that to make me cringe
05:39 AM XXCoder: but certainly dont look nice.
05:39 AM archivist_herron: making crap "mobile friendly"
05:39 AM phipli: XXCoder: it isn't quite square - close, in a way quite impressive
05:40 AM phipli: but... it really needs to be perfect
05:40 AM phipli: I'd guess whoever did it was desperate
05:40 AM XXCoder: yeah some stuff close enough arent,.
05:40 AM phipli: and if you only have one lathe, it is tricky to fix your lathe
05:40 AM archivist_herron: for normal machine not in back gear it is fine
05:40 AM XXCoder: you can borrow my $27 one lol
05:40 AM XXCoder: probably too small for task ;)
05:41 AM phipli: as it stands, I can't screwcut, but I'll be able to do other stuff so it is still useful
05:41 AM * phipli reads up a little...
05:41 AM XXCoder: cant make new part to replace it?
05:41 AM phipli: as archivist_herron said :)
05:41 AM phipli: yeah. plan is to use as is, but I would like it working
05:42 AM phipli: especially as I have all the changewheels etc.
05:42 AM archivist_herron: it is in a state to make the blank
05:42 AM phipli: not right now, but perhaps soon.
05:42 AM jthornton: I see a slight flaw in my code if I compile it while DST is in effect the door opens one hour too early
05:42 AM XXCoder: doh
05:42 AM phipli: jthornton: heh
05:42 AM XXCoder: slight recode in works eh
05:42 AM archivist_herron: although lathe is a little small for the operation
05:43 AM phipli: do it based on GMT or something
05:43 AM phipli: that doesn't change
05:43 AM phipli: archivist_herron: 3.5" centre
05:45 AM jthornton: the sunrise and sunset calculations are based on my latitude and longitude
05:45 AM * phipli doesn't like the digital calipers because they seem to be more faff than the verniers
05:45 AM jthornton: faff?
05:45 AM phipli: erm...
05:46 AM phipli: excessive effort?
05:46 AM archivist_herron: faffin about
05:46 AM phipli: heh
05:46 AM phipli: sorry jthornton - archivist_herron knows what I mean
05:46 AM XXCoder: I have both dial and digital
05:46 AM XXCoder: like both,.
05:47 AM jthornton: ah an overcomplicated task, especially one perceived as a waste of time.
05:47 AM phipli: jthornton: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/faff?s=t
05:47 AM archivist_herron: digital whoops the vernier types
05:47 AM phipli: yes
05:47 AM phipli: archivist_herron: I swear the battery in mine always goes flat, even when I take it out between use
05:48 AM XXCoder: phipli: yeah? mine lasts a full year with essentally daily yse
05:48 AM archivist_herron: fingers across the plastic leaves a leak on the battery
05:48 AM XXCoder: mityoto clone drain batteries in month or so though
05:48 AM jthornton: yea my caliper battery lasts a long time
05:49 AM phipli: I didn't use them this time, but what I've done is put a new, stick packaged, battery in the case with it for next time.
05:50 AM archivist_herron: my trouble is having too many new batteries in stock before I need to use them
05:50 AM phipli: both of mine were gifts from family, and to be honest, the vernier set look better made. Should compare them sometime.
05:50 AM XXCoder: arch yeah batteries could die before I need em lol
05:50 AM phipli: Don't have any slip gauges - how precise are my parallels likely to be?
05:50 AM XXCoder: little bit of an nnoyance
05:51 AM XXCoder: phipli: have a rock and height gauge with dual test indicitor?
05:51 AM archivist_herron: I have standards if you want to compare
05:51 AM phipli: XXCoder: rock arrives today :)
05:51 AM XXCoder: nice. what standard?
05:51 AM phipli: not height gauge yet though
05:51 AM XXCoder: A or B so on
05:51 AM phipli: XXCoder: crap I'd guess
05:51 AM phipli: as it is home use :'(
05:52 AM XXCoder: really all you need is some holder with good bottom
05:52 AM phipli: can't justify the money on something too good
05:52 AM XXCoder: yeah B is plenty for home
05:52 AM XXCoder: what .0005" and below right?
05:52 AM phipli: Grade B
05:52 AM XXCoder: A is .00005" or less I think
05:52 AM phipli: claims +/-0.0052mm
05:53 AM XXCoder: .0002 essentally
05:53 AM XXCoder: *inch
05:53 AM phipli: <nods>
05:53 AM XXCoder: one surface at work is .000012
05:53 AM XXCoder: "
05:53 AM XXCoder: some are B and are less than .0002"
05:54 AM phipli: it is quite small, but really my usage should only justify borrowing... but I'm a bit short of people to borrow from :)
05:54 AM archivist_herron: I have 4 1 inch "standards" and I can measure the difference
05:54 AM XXCoder: im sure all rocks at QA ia A
05:54 AM phipli: need to work my way into the confidence of the fabrication place down the road...
05:54 AM XXCoder: small rock is around $100 for B
05:54 AM phipli: £60
05:54 AM phipli: for 305x230x50mm
05:54 AM XXCoder: does temperate affect rock?
05:55 AM phipli: less than metal
05:55 AM XXCoder: not too bad
05:55 AM archivist_herron: I have a glass 1"
05:55 AM phipli: $76.21
05:55 AM XXCoder: heh i remember days when pound to usd was close enough to 2x
05:55 AM phipli: :'(
05:55 AM phipli: so do I
05:55 AM XXCoder: 30 pound is 6 usd. eays. lol
05:56 AM XXCoder: err 30 pound to 60 usd
05:56 AM phipli: sure?
05:56 AM phipli: ah right
05:56 AM phipli: you mean then
05:56 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:56 AM XXCoder: it l;asted pretty long time
05:56 AM phipli: exporting to you guys is easier
05:56 AM phipli: but screws up buying things from you
05:56 AM phipli: :p
05:57 AM XXCoder: I sold a lot of lego across pond anyway
05:57 AM phipli: man are we going to need to drum up trade with you guys now that we've stuck two fingers up at the rest of europe
05:57 AM XXCoder: most insane being belium, $100 shipping. painful. buyer had no complants paying and was happy with buy.
05:57 AM archivist_herron: we can still sell to eu!
05:57 AM phipli: (note, the /rest of/ no, "at europe" as some people who seem blind to what lump of rock we're attached to)
05:58 AM phipli: archivist_herron: yes. on what terms, we'll need to find out
05:58 AM XXCoder: phipli: dunno it seems stalled, expecially with liberal minority goverment, whatever that means.
05:58 AM phipli: liberal?
05:59 AM sync: phipli: I hope the uk gets wrecked in the export agreements
05:59 AM archivist_herron: make them pay more :)
05:59 AM XXCoder: hmm might have misremembered. other party besides your version of conservites
05:59 AM XXCoder: well dressed. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/42/c7/ef/42c7ef677bf48362b609b1511b9420e5.jpg
05:59 AM phipli: XXCoder: the Conservatives are still just about in power
05:59 AM XXCoder: indeed
05:59 AM phipli: although they don't have enough people to vote something through on their own
06:00 AM archivist_herron: typical german attitude towards us from sync as usual
06:00 AM phipli: so they've enlisted the help of a... party that is a little bit unusual
06:01 AM phipli: sync : less than half the population voted for this, please don't let us all crash and burn just because a lot of people reacted to the lack of trust in our arsehole politicians by doing the exact opposite to what seemed sensible?
06:01 AM * phipli cries in the corner and goes looking for the Irish Passport forms he has somewhere...
06:02 AM phipli: you know there is something wrong with the system when this guy didn't get in : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Buckethead
06:03 AM XXCoder: phipli: funny thing I literally discovered him less than minute ago
06:03 AM phipli: :)
06:03 AM phipli: some good policies I thought
06:04 AM archivist_herron: Screaming Lord Such was sensible
06:04 AM phipli: I like the Nuclear Deterrent one - tell everyone we built them, but don't bother
06:04 AM sync: archivist_herron: well, it would serve them right for trying to get out
06:04 AM phipli: Monster Raving Loony++
06:04 AM sync: it would be unfair to the other eu members if the uk gets their special agreements again
06:05 AM phipli: strong and stable, like your mamma's arse
06:11 AM XXCoder: that's what she said
06:12 AM archivist_herron: rofl cutter sharpened to death and selling for nearly new price http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gleason-Gear-Hob-Cutter-2-OAL-10-20-DP-30-PA-1-25-ARB-901-040-329-103-/131791001664
06:13 AM sync: but it says gleason!
06:14 AM XXCoder: for some weird reason uk ebay freezes my browser
06:15 AM archivist_herron: more sensible http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-DP-20-PA-Gear-hob-item-2482-/162023467959
06:23 AM phipli: heh
06:24 AM phipli: when you clamp something down roughly and check it with a dti and it is within 0.01mm of straight
06:25 AM archivist_herron: near enough
06:25 AM phipli: my thoughts exactly
06:26 AM archivist_herron: just had some auction info with a gear cutting machine in scotland, effin website has a blank screen!
06:28 AM jthornton: I'm not sure why this guy is storing info in the eeprom http://www.instructables.com/id/Adding-Daylight-Savings-Time-to-Your-RTC/
06:31 AM archivist_herron: save calculating every time?
06:34 AM jthornton: seems more sensible to just set the correct time without DST during the setup loop but I'm doing something different than him
06:53 AM jthornton: enough progress this morning off to split some firewood while it's cool outside
07:11 AM phipli: jthornton: ignore daylight saving time completely if you can?
07:12 AM phipli: can't you just calculate the required times without adjusting?
07:12 AM phipli: because the sun doesn't care if it is daylight saving or not
07:12 AM phipli: and nor do the chickens!
07:12 AM phipli: I now have a ~1/8" thick piece of brass roughly milled
07:13 AM phipli: need to put a 60 deg angle on each edge...
07:22 AM archivist_herron: use a light sensor, the chickens do :)
07:23 AM phipli: also, after getting locked out a couple of times they'd probably learn to make a run for the door when it starts shutting :)
07:24 AM archivist_herron: I suppose the closer should not be too quiet else it could sneak shut without them noticing
07:26 AM phipli: Do you buy bits from RDGTools?
07:28 AM archivist_herron: rarely
07:28 AM phipli: as in bits and bobs, not as in /specifically/ bits.
07:28 AM archivist_herron: usually only at the model engineering show where I can see quality
07:29 AM phipli: They've got so much stuff on ebay
07:29 AM archivist_herron: I have seen some crap they have so I tend to be picky
07:29 AM archivist_herron: feel it first
07:30 AM phipli: <nods>
07:31 AM archivist_herron: you seem to have a misbehaving script on your front page
07:31 AM phipli: hum?
07:31 AM phipli: top level domain?
07:32 AM archivist_herron: yup
07:32 AM phipli: I don't actually use it... (never finished making it)
07:32 AM phipli: but how so?
07:33 AM archivist_herron: killing the browser and unresponsive
07:33 AM phipli: which browser?
07:34 AM archivist_herron: should not matter!
07:34 AM sync: it does
07:34 AM phipli: can't test it otherwise
07:34 AM phipli: also, I didn't actually write that page
07:34 AM archivist_herron: I use an old one to make sure anything I create just works
07:34 AM sync: works fine tho
07:34 AM phipli: it is a placeholder using the hosts quick tools
07:35 AM archivist_herron: old firefox
07:35 AM phipli: are we talking Netscape here?
07:36 AM archivist_herron: nooo
07:37 AM phipli: NCSA Mosaic?
07:37 AM archivist_herron: firefox on linux
07:38 AM phipli: That's probably it - I made it with RISCOS 3 in mind :)
07:39 AM sync: it works in the latest chrome and firefox, good enough
07:40 AM sync: anything else is optional
07:40 AM phipli: Platform Pig probably doesn't work in an old Firefox ether :)
07:40 AM phipli: you'll be missing out.
07:40 AM phipli: needs HTML5
07:41 AM phipli: http://elephantandchicken.co.uk/platformpig-a4/index.html
07:41 AM phipli: :)
07:45 AM JT-Shop: phipli: ignoring DST is my plan now, I just have to make the set time function smart so if PC time is DST change the hour used
07:53 AM phipli: JT-Shop: yeah - that is probably the better place to put the additional complexity
07:53 AM phipli: ooo
07:53 AM phipli: delivery of new things is due any time in the next hour
07:54 AM phipli: heh
07:54 AM phipli: excellent timing
07:54 AM phipli: heard a van reversing just after I typed that
08:37 AM JT-Shop: second load of firewood split just need to stack it in the bin and put the tools away then shower time!
09:13 AM * Loetmichel just did a "muenchhausen" on the Soldering station... controller module for the desoldering gun failed... so i had to use it dismantled to repair that module ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16679&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:31 AM JT-Shop: phipli: I figured out how to get the sketch compile time from F(__TIME__) and convert that to a string so I just have to adjust the hour if it is DST
09:39 AM DrippityDrops: I have never set up a VFD before it seems very straightforward, however im unsure how to select the proper vfd for this motor which is 460V@4.8A. Does anyone know of a reference chart they like to use to determine the size of vfd?
09:39 AM JT-Shop: usually it's the HP rating that you use
09:40 AM Loetmichel: and its widely variable
09:40 AM Loetmichel: you can get a 10kw motor to run on a 5kw VFD and vice versa
09:41 AM Loetmichel: only up to the maximum ratings of the weaker part of course
09:45 AM DrippityDrops: It didnt have an hp rating and I really am nub when it comes to kw ratings and amp rating.. it says 2.65 kw
09:45 AM phipli: 3.5hp
09:45 AM DrippityDrops: holy moly really
09:45 AM DrippityDrops: that seems like so much
09:46 AM phipli: kWs are bigger than hps
09:47 AM Loetmichel: 1kw=1,35hp
09:47 AM archivist: 746 watts=1 HP
09:47 AM archivist: drummed into noobs
09:48 AM archivist: it was when I went to tech
09:50 AM DrippityDrops: ahhh
09:50 AM DrippityDrops: nice
09:50 AM DrippityDrops: im more likely to recall mechanical concepts, im quite bad when it comes to, watts, ohms, amps, volts, and beyond
09:51 AM archivist: they all connect by some equation or or constant
09:52 AM DrippityDrops: yeah a major constant is my forgetfulness
09:53 AM phipli: R=V/I and P=VxA cover a lot of things
09:53 AM JT-Shop: are you starting with 240v single phase? Automation Direct has a 3HP drive that works off of single phase
09:53 AM DrippityDrops: I should have known by now that I could easily derive hp by kW (does this also require a hz?)
09:53 AM archivist: we all keep little reference books due to that last constant
09:53 AM JT-Shop: GS2
09:53 AM DrippityDrops: its 3phase 460v
09:53 AM JT-Shop: ah ok
09:54 AM * JT-Shop heads for the industrial park now
09:54 AM phipli: Is that like Disney Land?
09:55 AM DrippityDrops: thanks as always for the well put education.
09:57 AM archivist: phipli, damn that reminds me of http://www.machexhibition.com/ have another year to wait
09:59 AM Loetmichel: archivist: soory, i too am getting older, the 1,35 was from memory, didnt google it ;)
10:00 AM Loetmichel: ah, its because metric HP and imperial Hp differ
10:00 AM Loetmichel: interesting...
10:00 AM Loetmichel: seeems american horses are weaker ;)
10:01 AM Loetmichel: (ahem: stronger)
10:01 AM archivist: there should never ever be dual standards like that
10:01 AM * archivist rants and US gallons etc
10:02 AM archivist: and/at
10:03 AM Loetmichel: isnt even the pound different?
10:04 AM archivist: and renaming standards is even sillier easy to remember mho as conductance
10:38 AM roycroft: loetmichel: the us adopted the si system in the 1870s, and then again in the 1970s
10:38 AM jdh: aren't we the only HP users? so ours is definitive.
10:39 AM roycroft: and you can see where that got us
10:39 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: for SOME values of "adopted" that are a lot smaller than 1 ;)
10:39 AM Loetmichel: s/for/true for
10:39 AM roycroft: legally we're using si units
10:40 AM roycroft: the inch is defined as 2.54cm, for example
10:40 AM roycroft: not vice versa
10:40 AM Loetmichel: yeah, dosent help much if nobody actually uses it
10:40 AM roycroft: it's really hurting industry, as it has to double tool
10:41 AM roycroft: and some sectors aren't double tooling any more - they've ditched american customary units
10:41 AM Loetmichel: seems sane to me
10:41 AM roycroft: but the pig-headed moronic jingoists who scream the loudest think it's "unamerican" to ditch our antiquated system
10:42 AM Loetmichel: i have no problem with "antiquated"
10:42 AM Loetmichel: i do have one with "illogical and inconsistent"
10:42 AM Loetmichel: especailly if the units arent even the same as in british units of the same name
10:42 AM roycroft: let's not have the "illogical and inconsistent" discussion
10:43 AM roycroft: the units are arbitrary, no matter what the system
10:43 AM Loetmichel: of course they are
10:43 AM roycroft: but si units have been globally adopted, with few exceptions
10:43 AM roycroft: that's the valid argument
10:43 AM Loetmichel: but why make it even MORE complicated by SLIGHTLY differ from the original values adopted from the brits?
10:43 AM Loetmichel: but keep the designators?
10:44 AM roycroft: that's irrelevant
10:44 AM Loetmichel: not for anyone outside the us. i fell in that trap just a few lines up
10:44 AM roycroft: there's a lot of water separating the us from the uk
10:44 AM Loetmichel: and even the lb isnt the same as in GB
10:44 AM roycroft: i don't worry about whether i'm buying a us gallon of fuel or an imperial gallon of fuel when i go to the filling station
10:45 AM roycroft: brits ditched imperial weight units a long time ago
10:46 AM roycroft: if you're talking about the unit of weight, yes it is
10:46 AM roycroft: ~453g
10:46 AM roycroft: in both the us and the uk
10:47 AM archivist: some were ditched in the UK but allowed later due to popular demand
10:48 AM archivist: lb as a weight was made illegal for a while
10:48 AM roycroft: the us customary and imperial systems mostly agree on units of mass
10:49 AM roycroft: however, we have three different non-si units of mass - troy, apothecary, and avoirdupois
10:51 AM roycroft: which is why a pound of feathers weights more than a pound of gold
10:51 AM roycroft: weighs
10:56 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:01 AM phipli: these days you can use the imperial weights in the UK...
11:01 AM phipli: but not /only/ the Imperial weights
11:02 AM phipli: we still measure road distances in miles and yards
11:02 AM phipli: and most people do height and weight of people in imperial measures
11:03 AM phipli: cars generally we talk MPG (our Gallons, not yours), horsepower (ours) and MPH
11:03 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: do you know the na,e of the cables that are used for brighing testboards
11:03 AM phipli: but everything else is SI :)
11:03 AM roycroft: your roadsigns are now, by law, posted in both imperial and si units - but that's a recent change
11:03 AM phipli: thinking about it, basically we do all the non-commercial stuff in imperial, and all the work and commerce stuff in SI
11:04 AM roycroft: they used to be either or, for the most part, but mostly imperial
11:04 AM phipli: roycroft: I'd not noticed... are you sure?
11:04 AM phipli: no, they have only ever been imperial
11:04 AM roycroft: yeah, i read about it a while back
11:04 AM phipli: never seen a metric roadsign here
11:04 AM roycroft: i think it's height and weight restrictions that were sometimes posted in si units
11:05 AM roycroft: i've never met a brit who talks about distances in km - it's always miles
11:05 AM jdh: and pints
11:05 AM roycroft: even canadians still use miles, even though their signs are all km
11:06 AM roycroft: real pints :)
11:06 AM roycroft: 20oz pints, not like our wimpy 16oz pints
11:06 AM roycroft: we get really cheated on beer in the states
11:06 AM roycroft: doubly so
11:06 AM archivist: we take the mick at the pumping station is a visitor talks metric
11:06 AM roycroft: not only are our pints smaller than imperial pints
11:06 AM roycroft: but a lot of pubs use "pint" glasses that are a us customary pint up to the rim of the glass
11:07 AM roycroft: not to the fill line, as is proper
11:07 AM roycroft: so a "pint" of beer includes the head
11:07 AM roycroft: now you're down to ~14oz of actual beer, vs 20oz in a real pint
11:07 AM phipli: In 2006 the government announced it was abandoning any plans to convert road sign distances to metric
11:08 AM sync: that's shitty roycroft
11:08 AM phipli: to be fair, this halfway thing is a bit stupid
11:08 AM sync: here you have to use calibrated glasses if you advertise a volume of beverage you sell
11:08 AM phipli: roycroft: our pints aren't meant to include the head
11:08 AM roycroft: now that you're brexiting, will you be going back to pounds, shillings, pence? :)
11:08 AM phipli: you get slightly bigger glasses with the liquid level marked for beers with a bigger head
11:08 AM roycroft: i have a set of imperial pint glasses
11:08 AM roycroft: they have a fill mark on them
11:08 AM phipli: some arse pubs give you the wrong glass intentionally...
11:09 AM roycroft: all my german beer glasses have fill marks, because that's the law
11:09 AM roycroft: oddly, there are some souvenir german beer glasses without the fill mark, but they are strictly for export
11:10 AM roycroft: i don't know why they're made, actually
11:10 AM roycroft: seems like it would be cheaper to just make one kind, with the fill mark, and use it both domestically and for export
11:10 AM phipli: urgh
11:10 AM phipli: almost 5
11:11 AM sync: most of them will also have nucleation lasering
11:11 AM sync: roycroft: well, not really, you just pull the same glasses off the line before they go to the laser
11:12 AM roycroft: that still requires doing that
11:12 AM roycroft: plus keeping separate inventories
11:12 AM roycroft: separate shipping boxes
11:12 AM roycroft: etc.
11:12 AM sync: sure, but that's relatively easy to do
11:12 AM roycroft: but not as easy as just marking all of them
11:13 AM roycroft: one interesting anomoly with uk units is cooking recipes
11:14 AM roycroft: they are almost always in grams these days, but teaspoons and tablespoons are often mixed in
11:14 AM roycroft: so you can have a recipe with 350g flour, 1 teaspoon salt, etc.
11:14 AM sync: yeah well, you have tsp in your kitchen
11:15 AM sync: and nobody would weigh salt, unless it was of utmost importance
11:15 AM roycroft: bakers weight salt all the time
11:15 AM roycroft: weigh
11:15 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7wuQ7xDDRE
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: pizza is flour salt and water
11:15 AM roycroft: but then again, baking recipes generally call for the salt and yeast in grams :)
11:15 AM sync: well, they bake stuff in larger quantities than you in your kitchen
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: beer
11:15 AM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
11:15 AM roycroft: there's usually some oil in pizza dough, ichguckslive
11:16 AM roycroft: and yeast, of course
11:16 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVU-dboakT4
11:16 AM roycroft: even home baking recipes generally use grams for everything
11:17 AM roycroft: baking requires more precision than cooking
11:17 AM IchGucksLive: till later
11:25 AM phipli: archivist: ... why are you logged in as "the_wench"...
11:25 AM DrippityDrops: is anyone going down this road for their controls pc? http://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial/embedded-design-build-buy-or-both
11:26 AM DrippityDrops: im still on quest for smallest possible pc to run mesa controls
11:26 AM phipli: I have a large number of SBCs
11:27 AM phipli: some with mini-pcie
11:27 AM DrippityDrops: no monitor, kbd, or mouse, just dual eth, or 1 eth and 1 epp
11:27 AM phipli: and have spent a reasonable amount of time trying to get my work to build a product with such a thing with limited success
11:27 AM phipli: They keep trying to do things on the cheap though
11:28 AM phipli: take my projects off me and give them to graduates who are less familiar with the tech and move on before it is done
11:28 AM phipli: but... in the specific case you're talking about, I've not dabbled
11:28 AM DrippityDrops: this is where i am now https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjBtcaG1rjUAhUH6YMKHcnuCVkQFghhMA4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vensys.ua%2Fattachments%2Fdownload%2Ffile%2Fid%2F212%2Fstore%2F19%2Fkpc6_black_datasheet.pdf&usg=AFQjCNG8V2eugbEeVnHHdR1MLfxAqCQEMA
11:28 AM phipli: closest thing is that I use a raspberry pi on my chinese mill as a buffer / controller
11:29 AM DrippityDrops: Im trying to get smaller but I think I need to drop everything but the dual eth
11:29 AM phipli: http://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=190
11:29 AM DrippityDrops: possibly try to keep the epp
11:30 AM phipli: machined aluminium case on that little fellow is nice
11:30 AM phipli: DrippityDrops: not sure that your link works
11:31 AM DrippityDrops: https://www.google.com/search?q=kpc6&client=ubuntu&hs=Wxo&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBtcaG1rjUAhUH6YMKHcnuCVkQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1440&bih=748
11:31 AM DrippityDrops: try that
11:31 AM phipli: Look like the computer we have under a train in Malaysia
11:32 AM DrippityDrops: silly yes, but the biggest problem i am having is finding a header cable that goes from the board to the enclosure
11:32 AM DrippityDrops: for the printer port
11:32 AM DrippityDrops: incredible huh?
11:33 AM phipli: what connectors does it use for that?
11:33 AM DrippityDrops: mesa card
11:33 AM DrippityDrops: db25
11:34 AM DrippityDrops: the header cable is smaller than your standard header cable for ribbon cables and for the life of me I cannot find the part or supplier
11:35 AM DrippityDrops: i found it 1 time, bookmarked it and then wiped the pc with bookmark on a forgetful day
11:36 AM TurBoss: DrippityDrops: http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63_297
11:37 AM TurBoss: like this?
11:37 AM DrippityDrops: yeh wrong pitch tho
11:37 AM TurBoss: but is for the mesa cards no?
11:37 AM DrippityDrops: I need the one for this motherboard to the enclosure on the pc
11:38 AM DrippityDrops: then with the mesa card I would be connecting to it like any normal printer port db25
11:38 AM DrippityDrops: http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_297&product_id=55 this item BUT the ribbon cable and header plug is smaller
11:39 AM TurBoss: oh
11:48 AM DrippityDrops: workin on some pics right now
11:51 AM DrippityDrops: oh snap, look what I found http://store.enochsystems.com/en/32200-015100-rs-p-2962.html
11:52 AM TurBoss: \o/
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:20 PM DrippityDrops: IchGucksLive: hey!
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: DrippityDrops: smile you will get it the way you want
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: i mill my electronic pcb with the chees
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: ona 0,5mm bit
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: or a V engraver
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/pcb_milling.jpg
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: does not look that bad
12:23 PM MrHindsight: IchGucksLive: what are you making today?
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: oh i did a 5axis animation
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: im waitng for parts to finish the large 7segment
12:25 PM MrHindsight: IchGucksLive: 5-axis with 3 being linear and two rotary axis?
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: yes
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: its a retrofit of a old 1985 arm cnc
12:26 PM MrHindsight: I have to make one similar only with inkjet printheads vs cutting tools on the head
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: the mashine has 12A below 1nm stepers 12 wire
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: now we fit it to 3Nm 4,2A
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: let me upload a small animation
12:29 PM roycroft: hmm, that reid surface grinder is still for sale
12:29 PM roycroft: i wish i knew where i would put it
12:29 PM * roycroft thinks it's time to build an extension to his garage
12:29 PM MrHindsight: it will never be big enough
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/EF_AL.mpg
12:29 PM roycroft: no, it won't
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: make the garage door trhe mill
12:31 PM roycroft: hmm, an order i placed with mcmaster a month ago that ups lost just showed up back at mcmaster
12:31 PM roycroft: i guess they found it finally and sent it back
12:31 PM MrHindsight: IchGucksLive: the one I have to make has the two rotary hanging off the Z
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: good but it is hard to be stable
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: you need 8 SBR or 4 HWIN
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: but the post is best
12:33 PM MrHindsight: IchGucksLive: mine is non-contact, no cutting tools so it's much easier to keep it stable
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: also good on scanning sculps
12:33 PM MrHindsight: it's only positioning a 10Kg load
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: what tool is on LASER
12:34 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: does the tracking show a stop over in Lala Land?
12:44 PM roycroft: it showed up in eugene
12:44 PM roycroft: was listed as out for delivery
12:44 PM roycroft: that was a month ago
12:44 PM roycroft: then it never showed up
12:44 PM roycroft: then there was an exception
12:44 PM roycroft: and new delivery date to be determined
12:44 PM roycroft: and now it's gone home
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: delevierey is always a miss
12:52 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: I see that a lot with damaged packages. It's like when kids spill juice on the couch. Nobody did it and they hope the problem just goes away.
12:52 PM MrHindsight: only the package ends up in the corner of a warehouse somewhere
12:53 PM roycroft: oh well
12:54 PM roycroft: mcmaster refunded my credit card, including shipping, as soon as i phoned them and told them the package had gone missing
12:54 PM roycroft: their customer service is exemplary
12:55 PM MrHindsight: yes, they are a short drive from me, a bit pricey though
12:55 PM MrHindsight: they have a lot of college grads working customer service and even warehousing
12:57 PM roycroft: they're not as pricey as grainger
12:57 PM MrHindsight: over qualified and willing to work for what they pay since jobs are still difficult for many to find
12:57 PM roycroft: who still won't sell to me because i don't have a state sales tax exempt certificate because we don't have sales tax in oregon
12:57 PM MrHindsight: I only buy closeout and overstock fasteners from grainger, often for $1 a box
12:58 PM MrHindsight: I did get some brass fittings from them last month
12:58 PM * roycroft does not feel deprived, though, as there are other options that are a lot less expensive
12:58 PM MrHindsight: no problem getting an account, no certificate required here
12:59 PM MrHindsight: they ship everything in Grainger boxes so i can't reuse them
12:59 PM MrHindsight: like Amamzon
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: i resigned by amazon as they lost a 250USD part and no refound
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: keep in contact with the seller no amazon direct order
01:04 PM MrHindsight: I stopped using Amazon since they mislead me with their ads about delivery dates
01:05 PM MrHindsight: "want it by this date then order by" is never accurate for me so it wastes my time searching
01:05 PM miss0r: Have you guys seen the nasa lifestream? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtU_mdL2vBM
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: if the BAY woudt force the user to tell the date of arriving on china items the china mail woudt get there but up
01:05 PM miss0r: Funny: on a ridiculous space station, floating in earth orbit, the astronaut still has a finger on the camera linse :D
01:05 PM miss0r: well, did a sec ago
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: nasa streams are always cool
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: here in germany its the night TV shot
01:06 PM miss0r: nice
01:06 PM MrHindsight: are they over Baja now?
01:07 PM miss0r: I can only identify contries on thoes maps where the name is written in bulk letters - even then I have issues :D
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: best is you see the Radio antanna scanning a3rd of the planet
01:10 PM MrHindsight: DB connectors in space
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: also 3d printer on iss
01:10 PM miss0r: All i'm thinking is: they are pretty far away; I can see they are streaming in 4K and only god knows how much more other data at all times. And I can't even get a stable 20mbit connection here
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: ok im off for today
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: bye
01:12 PM MrHindsight: more anodized aluminum there than you can shake a stick at
01:12 PM Loetmichel: miss0r: lucky you
01:12 PM Loetmichel: i have a 16(14real)Mbit down/1mbit up line here...
01:12 PM miss0r: Loetmichel: Wonderfull :]
01:13 PM Loetmichel: ... and our company had a 2Mbit Sdsl line until last year. with a 2000ms ping
01:13 PM Loetmichel: :-)
01:14 PM miss0r: For keeping employees from playing counter strike during work hours
01:14 PM miss0r: I love how clean everything looks on that space station... I wish my shop was like that
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: I just had a peek at that NASA stream and they are irresponsible - they use hex nuts everywhere, not tamper-resistant ones. Did they not hear about aliens? :)
01:15 PM miss0r: hehe
01:17 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if those nyts are metric or imperial too...
01:17 PM LeelooMinai: A, it's from the station - probably metric then.
01:18 PM miss0r: I hope they did a proper job and used metric - the unit of science.
01:18 PM * miss0r ducks for cover
01:20 PM roycroft: but which metric?
01:20 PM roycroft: french?
01:20 PM roycroft: italian?
01:20 PM roycroft: japanese?
01:20 PM roycroft: they're all different
01:20 PM roycroft: at least they used to be
01:20 PM sync: they are not. they just have strange bike threads
01:20 PM roycroft: they actually were in the past
01:21 PM sync: no
01:21 PM roycroft: when i worked at a bike shop we had different sets of tools for different nationalities' metric fasteners
01:21 PM roycroft: one could interchange them, sure
01:21 PM sync: they might have been defined differently, but that's not something one would notice
01:21 PM roycroft: but they did not fit perfectly when used on the wrong stuff
01:21 PM miss0r: that has pretty much all been standardized... not taking generic chinesium into account
01:21 PM sync: well, japan has JIS four blade screws
01:21 PM roycroft: and with the high end stuff we did not want any wrench marks, etc on the parts
01:21 PM sync: which is not philips
01:22 PM roycroft: i agree that the standard is identical in all those countries
01:22 PM sync: but apart from that it is all the same, while different manufacturers may have different tolerances they usually apply
01:22 PM roycroft: but the tools they made had different specifications
01:22 PM roycroft: it was probably just tolerance differences
01:22 PM LeelooMinai: I just a scary thought about that stream that suddenly the sound is on and you can hear that astronout doing repairs saying "I am like the smart astronaut".
01:22 PM roycroft: all i know is that we had three sets of "metric" tools
01:23 PM roycroft: and we had the imperial ones for raleigh, etc.
01:23 PM roycroft: if you used a french wrench on an italian bolt head it would not fit perfectly
01:24 PM roycroft: this was back in the '70s
01:25 PM MrHindsight: my 1 meter socket fits every 1 meter bolt I've had to tighten or loosen :)
01:27 PM roycroft: i'll admit there was some snobbery involved in the bike shop, especially regarding italian components, but the owners were not part of that, and they would not have invested in multiple sets of tools if there weren't a good reason for it
01:27 PM roycroft: snobbery is not a good reason, most of the time
01:28 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: you can account that to sloppy italian works... and french
01:28 PM MrHindsight: I find that problem often with ChinaCo tools
01:28 PM Loetmichel: a 17mm spanner fits any 17mm bolt
01:29 PM Loetmichel: if not either the spanner or the bolt or both are not up to standard
01:29 PM MrHindsight: hex key starts out at 3mm and is only 2.9mm later in the day
01:29 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: i had a few of thes
01:29 PM MrHindsight: grind it down and the same happens the next day
01:29 PM roycroft: the exception being when customer snobbery demands it
01:29 PM Loetmichel: made a corkscrew out of a 6mm allen key once... bare handed...
01:30 PM Loetmichel: <- "WTF?!?"
01:30 PM MrHindsight: heh, did that with a 3/8" extension
01:30 PM MrHindsight: butter metal
01:30 PM roycroft: which is common in the automotive industry
01:31 PM roycroft: i know mechanics who say they buy snap-on because their customers expect them to use snap-on, and they would lose business if they didn't
01:31 PM * Loetmichel is german
01:31 PM phipli: my calibrated rock has a test certificate
01:31 PM phipli: it tells me the variations between the four corners and the centre
01:31 PM roycroft: i'm of the "use what's appropriate for the job" school
01:31 PM Loetmichel: gedore for spanners and ratchets, belzer for screwdrivers, knipex for pliers...
01:31 PM phipli: I think it is funny that I have a calibrated rock.
01:32 PM MrHindsight: my rock says tested by 旺
01:34 PM sync: roycroft: I think snap-off only survives on that reputation
01:35 PM sync: their stuff is not better than the competition but costs 5x as much
01:35 PM roycroft: they are god tools, no doubt
01:35 PM roycroft: good
01:35 PM roycroft: not god :)
01:35 PM roycroft: it is better than much of the competition
01:35 PM roycroft: i have, for example, a pretty full set of craftsman polished combination box/open end wrenches
01:35 PM sync: all my car tools are stahlwille, so far I have not been let down by them
01:35 PM MrHindsight: Snap-On sends a truck out to your location on payday
01:35 PM roycroft: i have a half dozen or so snap-on combination wrenches
01:35 PM sync: and I did some pretty shady stuff with it
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: I saw some hex keys made for you - they are pre-twisted:)
01:36 PM Loetmichel: sync: stahlwille is ok also
01:36 PM roycroft: the snap-on wrenches are more comfortable to handle, and have a slightly smaller/thinner profile, so they fit in places where the craftsman ones do not
01:36 PM MrHindsight: Snap-On gives everyone credit
01:37 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai; what do you think of that drill bit then? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14784&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
01:37 PM roycroft: i would say that the snap-on wrenches are maybe 30% "better" (a strictly qualitative assessment) for about 3x the price
01:37 PM Loetmichel: did that in a battery drill... onehanded... ;)
01:37 PM roycroft: so not the best value
01:37 PM roycroft: but they are better tools
01:38 PM sync: as I said, not so sure, compared to other quality tooling
01:39 PM roycroft: compared to sk, mac, etc. they are similar
01:39 PM roycroft: but so is the price
01:39 PM roycroft: compared to craftsman, husky, etc. i still think they're better
01:39 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: If you did that holding it in hand directly, it's very impressive:p
01:40 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: as i said: in a small battery drill, holding said drill with one hand.
01:40 PM sync: somebody told me that I have torque multipliers in my hands a few weeks ago
01:40 PM Loetmichel: point is that a drill bit isnt supposed to bend at all, let alone "unwind" the flute that much
01:40 PM Loetmichel: ... its supposed to break
01:41 PM sync: was loosening some M6 bolts that were in tinned copper blocks for some 30 years
01:41 PM LeelooMinai: That reminds me: is there a "tool" that one could use in a drill press that would attach to the end of the drill bit and self-center + provide sharp tip so one can center the drill perfectly on a mark on the workpiece?
01:41 PM Loetmichel: let me gues: you broke the heads off?
01:41 PM sync: no, he could not get them out with both hands and reached for a spanner
01:42 PM sync: and I just unscrewed them with the screwdriver
01:42 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i know that feeling
01:42 PM Loetmichel: get that often when a co-worke comes by: "can you unscrew that enclosure? i cant move a single screw there!"
01:43 PM Loetmichel: and i do it onehanded with a small 10mm diameter screwdriver ;)
01:44 PM djdelorie: LeelooMinai_: I turned something similar on my lathe, just a cone with a 3/8" shaft http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_3276.html
01:45 PM LeelooMinai_: I guess I could MacGyver something on a per-drill bit basis. I saw a neet trick where you can drill a small cylinder perfectly through the axis using second chuck clamped into a vise (and the cylinder in the drill press chuck).
01:45 PM djdelorie: heh, easy-peasy with a lathe ;-)
01:45 PM LeelooMinai_: djdelorie: Well, ok, but that's not what I meant I think - I mean how do you put this thing onto the drill bit...
01:45 PM djdelorie: I take the drill bit out, position the part, clamp it down, put the bit back in...
01:46 PM sync: just use a center drill or learn how to use a drill properly ;)
01:46 PM LeelooMinai_: lol... that kind of defeats the purpose:)
01:46 PM djdelorie: define "purpose" then. It puts drilled holes right where existing holes/pits are
01:46 PM sync: if you centerpunched you will hit the hole quite well usually
01:46 PM LeelooMinai_: The idea is that if I have a drill bit in already, I can put the attachment on top of it, and don't have to replace it with another bit for centering for evey hole...
01:47 PM djdelorie: my drill press has freakin' lasers on it for that...
01:48 PM LeelooMinai_: So it would be something like a cylinder with a point on one end and bored hole or something on the other so one can insert the drill that is already in chuck into it.
01:48 PM LeelooMinai_: djdelorie: Right, mine too, but those are not exactly accurate...
01:48 PM djdelorie: if I want accurate, I use the cone :-)
01:49 PM roycroft: if you use a spot drill to start the hole, which you should, it's easy to line it up with the punch mark using a loupe
01:49 PM LeelooMinai_: Yes, that's what I did in the past, but if you have tons of holes and you exchange the drill bit and centering one for every one, it's rather time consuming, so that's why I had this tool idea in mind.
01:49 PM roycroft: you can eyeball it to within a couple thousandths using a loupe
01:50 PM LeelooMinai_ is now known as LeelooMinai
01:50 PM djdelorie: in that case, it's worth making a one-off on the lathe
01:50 PM roycroft: and if you need more precision than that you should not be relying on a center punched hole
01:50 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but I am trying to make the process easier/faster.
01:50 PM djdelorie: you're back to step 1 then : build a second cnc machine :-)
01:51 PM roycroft: you still need to swap the spot drill for the twist drill
01:51 PM roycroft: so i don't see how it gets any easier/faster
01:51 PM LeelooMinai: The problem is that drill bits, especially the larger ones, do not really have well defined sharp point and depending on the angle you look at them, they will fool you as to the center due to the flute.
01:51 PM roycroft: you can't start a hole that's even remotely accurate with a twist drill
01:51 PM roycroft: it will wander
01:51 PM roycroft: which is why you use a spot drill to start the hole
01:52 PM roycroft: and btw, a center drill sucks for that - it has the wrong angle
01:52 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I think you don't understand what I was asking about - the point was not to have to remove the drill bit at all.
01:52 PM roycroft: center drills are for lathe centers only
01:52 PM roycroft: i understand you completely
01:52 PM djdelorie: yeah, /me has an actual spotting bit, and cringes a little when youtubers spot with a center bit
01:52 PM roycroft: and i'm telling you that starting a hole with a twist drill is not the correct way to drill
01:53 PM djdelorie: and doing so will be less accurate than any of the easy lining-up methods anyway?
01:53 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I have already small pilot holes done when I take the part to the drill press.
01:54 PM LeelooMinai: I mark, then center-punch, then use hand-drill to make pilot "pits" that are about 3mm deep.
01:54 PM roycroft: if i need any semblence of precision i don't use a center punch at all
01:54 PM roycroft: i layout on the surface plate
01:54 PM roycroft: spot drill
01:54 PM djdelorie: hmmm... if the pilot hole is smaller than the web of the larger bit, does it even count?
01:54 PM roycroft: twist drill
01:54 PM roycroft: countersink
01:54 PM roycroft: counterbore if necessary
01:54 PM roycroft: tap if necessary
01:54 PM roycroft: then move on to the next hole
01:55 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I use carbide scriber to make lines, then small point with it, then center-punch, then hand-drill the pilot hole with special bit - I can get pretty accurate.
01:55 PM roycroft: if you want to save time then don't bother with the center punching and "pilot holes"
01:55 PM LeelooMinai: Center-punching takes 2 seconds:)
01:55 PM LeelooMinai: I mean with that automatic one.
01:55 PM LeelooMinai: And drilling maybe 3 seconds
01:55 PM roycroft: if you don't want to swap drills all the time, then spot drill everything with the proper size spot drill
01:56 PM roycroft: then put the twist drill bit in and finish the holes with that
01:56 PM roycroft: the spot drill has the correct geometry that you can self-center the twist drill on a sensitive drill press
01:56 PM roycroft: it all depends on how accurate the holes need to be
01:57 PM LeelooMinai: I can see it will guide the drill into the center, but do not see that it will make aligning the axis easier.
01:57 PM roycroft: on a sensitive drill press you just push the work around until it's centered
01:57 PM roycroft: then hold the quill down so the drill bit holds the work in place
01:57 PM roycroft: clamp the work
01:57 PM roycroft: then drill
01:58 PM roycroft: to initially align the holes you lock the spot drill down so it's just above the surface of the work
01:59 PM roycroft: move the work around by hand until the cross-hairs are directly under the center of the spot drill
01:59 PM roycroft: clamp, and drill
01:59 PM LeelooMinai: I have some spot drills I got for the CNC - 90 deg ones I think.
01:59 PM LeelooMinai: But this is a steel angle, and I am worried I will ruin them.
02:00 PM roycroft: that's the wrong angle
02:00 PM roycroft: 118 or 135 degrees are the standard angles on drill bits
02:00 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I got them because they are supposed to be the right (lol) angle:)
02:00 PM roycroft: get spot drills that are the same angle as your twist drills
02:01 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Ok, but for CNC I read that 90 is a better idea.
02:01 PM roycroft: i'm not sure why that would be
02:01 PM LeelooMinai: Because it's slightly more accute than 118 and the drill bit gets a nice grip with the cutting edge.
02:02 PM LeelooMinai: Instead of potentially sliding in a matched angle.
02:02 PM roycroft: well if that's what you want to do, then go grind your twist drill bits to a 90 degree included angle, so they match your spot drills
02:03 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Not sure I get what you just wrote:p
02:04 PM roycroft: i don't do cnc drilling, so i can't speak from experience
02:04 PM roycroft: but i don't see how intentionally mismatching the angle of your spot drills and main drills can improve the accuracy of your holes
02:05 PM LeelooMinai: ON CNC you are already accurate, presumably.
02:05 PM roycroft: no, you're not
02:05 PM roycroft: because a twist drill will grab the material randomly and steer its own course
02:05 PM roycroft: which is why you spot drill first to guide the twist drill properly
02:06 PM roycroft: a spot drill is very stiff and does not wander like a twist drill
02:06 PM djdelorie: or you "drill" with an end mill instead ;-)
02:06 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, but if you have two cones, one 90 and one 180 degree and you start feeding the drill initially you get very tiny contact, so it's not a problem.
02:06 PM LeelooMinai: 118*
02:06 PM roycroft: sure
02:06 PM roycroft: if that's what you want to do
02:06 PM roycroft: they're your holes, not mine
02:06 PM LeelooMinai: And it's CNC so it feeds very consistently.
02:06 PM roycroft: sure
02:07 PM roycroft: because tooling is perfect
02:07 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I am just saying that I remember I watched I video from someone that recommended it, and it was probably some "expert" like person, or I wouild not follow this advice.
02:07 PM djdelorie: roycroft: to be fair, when drilling on a lathe, each bit self-centers in the previous hole once the cutting edge is fully engaged...
02:08 PM gregcnc: you'll see expert advice pointing to both smaller and greater angle spot drills
02:08 PM djdelorie: a 90 degree starting bit might be doing something similar
02:08 PM roycroft: you'll see "experts" using center drills to start holes for not centers all the time
02:08 PM djdelorie: by starting the engagement at the outside of the bit instead of the tip
02:09 PM roycroft: you'll also see their twist drills move around significantly after they engage the work
02:09 PM JT-Shop: yea center drills are for lathe centers not hole spotting
02:09 PM gregcnc: forget spotting, just use a screw length split point. one tool, done
02:10 PM roycroft: if you want accurate holes you need to bore them anyway :)
02:10 PM LeelooMinai: The bits I have are meant for CNC pilot holes specifically.
02:10 PM roycroft: and your twist drill starter hole is just to provide clearance for the boring bar
02:10 PM gregcnc: hole don't care if they are CNC or not
02:11 PM LeelooMinai: But I care:)
02:11 PM gregcnc: 90° spotting is often used because at the right depth you'll also have your chamfer
02:12 PM djdelorie: if it's just a hole, you could use the next size up drill bit and not worry about exactly where it is :-)
02:12 PM LeelooMinai: I wish I knew what video it was, since guy was explaing all the reasons pretty well.
02:12 PM roycroft: if you're going to cnc your holes then i don't see why you bother with laying out, center punching, drilling pilot oles
02:12 PM roycroft: holes
02:12 PM roycroft: nor why you care about changing tooling
02:12 PM roycroft: just have the cnc drill all the spot holes first
02:12 PM roycroft: change tooling
02:12 PM gregcnc: try it, do what works for you
02:12 PM djdelorie: roycroft: she's building her cnc machine :-)
02:12 PM roycroft: then drill the rest
02:13 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Because that angle is part of my CNC which is disassembled now...
02:13 PM LeelooMinai: chicken egg thing:)
02:13 PM djdelorie: the egg came first
02:13 PM roycroft: at the very least, unless the holes are really big, there's no reason for a pilot hole
02:14 PM LeelooMinai: Well, they are 7mm or so, so rather biggish.
02:14 PM roycroft: 7mm is not big at all
02:14 PM LeelooMinai: I knew that someone will say it:)
02:14 PM roycroft: spot drill then final drill, and bob's your uncle
02:14 PM LeelooMinai: Big holes start at 6 inches:)
02:14 PM gregcnc: you said it no tme
02:15 PM roycroft: and if you want the layout to be accurate, than put away that spring-loaded center punch
02:15 PM roycroft: if you must center punch, use a solid one
02:15 PM roycroft: line it up as carefully as you can
02:15 PM roycroft: give it a really light tap
02:15 PM roycroft: inspect with a loupe
02:16 PM roycroft: and then give it a firmer tap, after angling it properly to move the hole to a more accurate location
02:16 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I tested it - once I mark tiny hole with the scriber itself, and then use the punch, I get good accuracy.
02:16 PM roycroft: but if the holes do not need to be accurate then none of this matters
02:16 PM LeelooMinai: Because the smaller scriber hole guides the punch.
02:16 PM roycroft: and what if the scriber hole is off-center?
02:17 PM roycroft: do you angle your spring-loaded punch to move the hole to the center?
02:17 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: ...
02:17 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: in my first apprenticeship i had a fellow apprentice who managed to "drill" thru the 4mm sheet steel with the solid center punch... with one hit of the hammer for each punch ;)
02:17 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Obviously if I mark with scriber I try to be accurate, that's the whole idea, no?
02:17 PM * djdelorie wonders why those holes need to be so accurate...
02:17 PM roycroft: i doubt that they do, djdelorie
02:18 PM Loetmichel: ... that look on the masters face when he held that steel plate into the sun and could see every punch on the other side... ;)
02:18 PM roycroft: but that's one of the hardest things for a novice machinist to learn - how good is good enough?
02:18 PM LeelooMinai: You see, that always happen on IRC:p I did not say they need to be accurate to 1 micron, just asked if someone saw a tool that one could attach to a drill bit to provide better point:)
02:18 PM gregcnc: machinist or engineer?
02:19 PM djdelorie: heh, I'm on the other end of that - my cnc is made of plywood. How bad is still good enough? ;-)
02:19 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: my coworker?
02:19 PM LeelooMinai: I mean I know what I want in terms of accuracy. Just that if I mark, I use same technique and tools, so what's the problem:)
02:19 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: just make deeper center punches and the normal drill bit will grip ;)
02:19 PM gregcnc: machinist generally work to prints designed by someone who decided what the toelrance should be
02:20 PM Loetmichel: ah, so not me
02:20 PM roycroft: gregcnc: i'm talking about a beginning apprentice type
02:20 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Well, maybe, maybe not - with steel I think there's more risk it will drift a bit.
02:20 PM roycroft: who is learning how to operate the machines
02:20 PM roycroft: not who is producing work
02:20 PM gregcnc: are we talking 7mm holes for 6mm fasteners?
02:20 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, well, the bit is 9/32, but that's close
02:21 PM LeelooMinai: (I know what's coming)
02:21 PM gregcnc: them i won't say it
02:21 PM LeelooMinai: "but if the hole is 1mm bigger then the fastener..."
02:21 PM roycroft: that's a lot of slop
02:21 PM roycroft: you should have no problem
02:22 PM gregcnc: 7.14mm
02:22 PM LeelooMinai: And then I will have to explain again that I was just asking about the tool for all cases, not this particular one:)
02:22 PM djdelorie: you could buy a small drill chunk and sharpen a point on the back side, then just chuck it onto your drill bit...
02:23 PM djdelorie: but all my suggestions assume you have a lathe...
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: djdelorie: Lol, that's an interesting idea:)
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: Do chucks self-center?
02:23 PM gregcnc: within some tolerance
02:23 PM djdelorie: does the one on your drill press self-center?
02:23 PM * djdelorie hopes so
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: djdelorie: No idea...
02:24 PM LeelooMinai: Would be weird if not I guess
02:24 PM djdelorie: do your drill bits spin nicely, or wobble all over the place?
02:24 PM roycroft: close clearance for a 6.00mm drill is 6.30mm, which is approximately an 'e' letter drill
02:24 PM roycroft: loose clearance is 6.60mm, or a 'g' letter drill
02:24 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: hmmm
02:24 PM roycroft: 7mm is sloppy clearance
02:24 PM Loetmichel: i usually drill 6.1 for M6 bolts
02:24 PM LeelooMinai: Great, now we have metric, imperial, fractional and letters...
02:25 PM djdelorie: LeelooMinai: you need http://www.custompartnet.com/drill-size-chart
02:25 PM roycroft: an 'e' is 0.250", a 'g' is 0.261"
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I know 7mm is a bit bigger hole, but my thinking was to play safe and it shoukd not matter in my case anyways - I mean it's to clamp the aluminum bar to a steel angle and I will have washers there anyways.
02:26 PM gregcnc: E or 1/4" drill?
02:27 PM roycroft: if you're using this for stiffening then i would drill close fit holes
02:27 PM gregcnc: that won't matter clamping forces prevent movement
02:28 PM roycroft: depends on the quality of the fasteners :)
02:28 PM LeelooMinai: djdelorie: Right, like I never saw those - how do you think I choose drills for tapping, etc.:)
02:29 PM djdelorie: I mean, that particular chart has all the different types, sorted by size, with conversions to a common unit. I find it more handy than other charts
02:29 PM LeelooMinai: You can always trust IRC to make an hour debate fron simple question:p
02:29 PM djdelorie: next up, we debate torquing down fasteners properly :-)
02:29 PM LeelooMinai: djdelorie: I have one printed like that.
02:29 PM roycroft: although i'll agree that a weak fastener that stretches as one tightens it is likely to not have much shear strength as well
02:30 PM LeelooMinai: And I pout it into plastick jacket even.
02:30 PM LeelooMinai: djdelorie: But mine is nicer.
02:30 PM djdelorie: link?
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: I think this one. I would make it even better, but did not bother: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/df/4c/19/df4c19da276ff578f0742037a6313bc4.jpg
02:31 PM roycroft: go register on starrett.com, and they will send you a giant tap/drill chart for free
02:31 PM roycroft: and i don't think they discriminate against canadians
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: One improvement would be clearly distinguishing x/4 x/8 x/16, etc fractions - maybe with color or shapes or both.
02:31 PM djdelorie: yeah, not the same. I like the one I linked to because it was *one* list. I have plenty that are separate lists
02:32 PM djdelorie: so if I need something a little bigger than 1/4" I can easily see that 6.4mm is the next size up
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: But the fact that one even needs such charts is sad:)
02:33 PM LeelooMinai: Fractional units are sad by themself - you need to do fractional calculations in your had to compare two size - fail.
02:33 PM gregcnc: If you have a 180° point drill do you need to spot drill?
02:33 PM djdelorie: you'd use a 180 degree spotting drill :-)
02:33 PM LeelooMinai: lol @ 180 drill
02:33 PM SpeedEvil: A 180 degree point drill?
02:34 PM gregcnc: what are you laughing about?
02:34 PM djdelorie: they're called "end mills" :-)
02:34 PM gregcnc: yes i have a few
02:34 PM gregcnc: no
02:34 PM djdelorie: I mean a 180 degree spotting bit ;-)
02:34 PM LeelooMinai: How about 260 degree point? :p
02:34 PM LeelooMinai: 360*
02:34 PM gregcnc: endmills are actually ~185°
02:34 PM djdelorie: oh, right
02:35 PM gregcnc: rare to see a 180° endmills but I have some from a random ebay purchase
02:35 PM roycroft: the chart that almost everyone uses combines fractional, number, letter, and metric hole sizes in one big list, sorted by size
02:35 PM gregcnc: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/66100140
02:36 PM roycroft: and has another table on the side with tap drill sizes, and close and standard tolerance holes
02:36 PM * LeelooMinai puts the fingers into ears and sings "lalalala" trying to forget that drills can be sized by letters
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: That looks like a mill to me - potato/tomato?
02:37 PM gregcnc: drill
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: And that price -lol
02:38 PM gregcnc: lol what? carbide, through coolant, but yeah still 100 at non MSC prices
02:38 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know - I got mine from china and if one was more than $5 I was panicking...
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: And yes, carbide, etc.
02:39 PM roycroft: leeloominai: http://www.bghooke.com/brucehooke/Documents/Tap_Drill_Chart_2.pdf
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: Not through coolant though.
02:39 PM roycroft: not as nicely formatted as the one from starrett
02:39 PM roycroft: but still tabulated reasonably
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: No one took any effort there to use visual cues, etc. - it's just a plain chart.
02:40 PM MrHindsight: only covers <2" :(
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: MrHindsight: lol..
02:40 PM roycroft: we have this thing, mrhindsight
02:40 PM roycroft: it's called "multiplication"
02:40 PM roycroft: and this other thing called "addition"
02:41 PM roycroft: we can use these things to extrapolate for the larger sizes :)
02:41 PM LeelooMinai: Another thing one can always count on IRC - you will reach extremes on any topic in no time:)
02:41 PM gregcnc: but then you have to think and teh chart was to eliminate that
02:42 PM roycroft: make another chart
02:42 PM gregcnc: more thinking
02:42 PM roycroft: tell someone else to make another chart
02:42 PM LeelooMinai: In electronics it would usually start about a question, say, about current vs resistance and you peek 15 minuts later in and people argue about effects of quantum mechanics trying to disprove one another:p
02:42 PM gregcnc: they you go
02:42 PM roycroft: take your work to someone else
02:42 PM roycroft: point at it
02:42 PM roycroft: and say "make big hole here"
02:43 PM MrHindsight: and only down to .0031 on the low end, what do I tell my corpuscles to do?
02:43 PM roycroft: you need to get the nanochart
02:43 PM LeelooMinai: I could make a tremendous chart, bigly and probably the best chart there is, but do I want to?
02:43 PM roycroft: you can buy it from apple
02:43 PM roycroft: the smaller it goes the more it will cost you
02:43 PM roycroft: just like nanotooling
02:45 PM MrHindsight: https://www.osgtool.com/m/Product-List-Detail/EXOCARB-MAX-MINI-UVM-DRL-Pilot-Drills/5315
02:45 PM MrHindsight: check out the pricing
02:45 PM MrHindsight: https://www.osgtool.com/m/Product-List-Detail/EXOCARB-MAX-MINI-UVM-5D-Drills/5320
02:45 PM gregcnc: in stock though
02:45 PM roycroft: don't drop it!
02:46 PM LeelooMinai: There are no prices
02:46 PM LeelooMinai: O, I see, well
02:46 PM MrHindsight: I have a matching tiny drill press :)
02:46 PM LeelooMinai: I will use Chinese one for $1:)
02:47 PM roycroft: did the spindle for that drill press cost ONE MILLION DOLLARS?
02:47 PM LeelooMinai: Mr. Evil
02:47 PM LeelooMinai: It's diamond coated carbide - big deal:)
02:47 PM roycroft: having greater runout than the diameter of your tooling does not work too well, i should think
02:48 PM FinboySlick: Sounds like boring.
02:48 PM roycroft: so you would need runout of 50 millionths or so at most
02:48 PM gregcnc: you definitely indicate those
02:49 PM LeelooMinai: O, right, they also provide the diameter as wire gauge size #30 - I must add this to the list of sizes just after the "letter" ones.
02:51 PM LeelooMinai: When I gather or the possibilities I will print a chart and attach it to the outside of my house.
02:53 PM gregcnc: make it big enough so I can read it on streetview
02:53 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I guess in big companies they must have specialists that look at expensive mills like that and calculate how long they will last and need to account for what it involves and see if the price difference from the cheaper ones if worth it - it's probably pretty complicated.
02:53 PM kyle___: fun fact: the nazca lines are just a drill size chart but they died of famine before finishing it
02:53 PM roycroft: hmm, the queen's speech is delayed, because may can't make a deal with the dup
02:54 PM roycroft: her majesty is not amused, i'm sure
02:54 PM LeelooMinai: O, right, is someone here from UK?
02:54 PM roycroft: she has other duties
02:54 PM LeelooMinai: I have a question for UK people.
02:54 PM roycroft: and even if a deal is struck today it will be difficult to deliver the speech on time, because it has to be inked on goatskin, and the ink takes several days to dry
02:55 PM roycroft: productivity vs. tooling life is something machine shop managers have to juggle all the time
02:56 PM gregcnc: until the operator comes in and ruins it all by crashing tooling and or machines
02:57 PM roycroft: labor cost vs. competency is also something they must juggle :)
02:57 PM djdelorie: productivity vs idiots is another thing managers juggle...
02:57 PM LeelooMinai: Found it. UK people probably are asleep:( But can someone tell me what are those candidates doing there in UK elections? :) http://i.imgur.com/dZCU0E4.jpg
02:58 PM gregcnc: you mean productivity vs idiot proofing
02:58 PM LeelooMinai: Apparently one is Lord Buckethead and one Elmo and they get votes:)
02:58 PM roycroft: in the ideal shop tooling would last forever, machinsts would never make mistakes, and would work for free
02:58 PM roycroft: lord buckethead disappeared for decades
02:58 PM roycroft: he just came back this election
02:58 PM roycroft: he was around during the thacher and major regimes previously, but then retired
02:59 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but what's the idea there... Are those votes just for lols, or they are serious?
02:59 PM roycroft: i guess theresa may caused him to come out of retirement
02:59 PM suavesteve: He also made some pretty solid points...
03:00 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L6Zrh921is Micro Machining of a Watch
03:00 PM LeelooMinai: I guess it must be some strange UK thing that no one outside will understand:)
03:00 PM roycroft: the big news coming out of .eu is that, if may insists on working a trade agreement simultaneously with the brexit negotiations, the eu announced that they would take a year to regroup before starting either negotiation
03:00 PM roycroft: which would leave less than a year to conclude everything
03:01 PM roycroft: the two year clock is unstoppable
03:02 PM LeelooMinai: MrHindsight: And then somemone bumps into the machine or your neighbour decides to drill his conrete floor:)
03:03 PM MrHindsight: Brexit remorse?
03:03 PM LeelooMinai: Or like few weeks ago - they drove a road asfalt stripping monster machine by my house and I could feel my spine vibratiing...
03:04 PM roycroft: very much so, mrhindsight
03:04 PM roycroft: the brexit remorse started the day after the referendum
03:05 PM suavesteve: The only pleasure I've gotten out of the situation recently has been watching the realisation of what's going to happen to the farming grants dawn on all the farmers who voted for it here in N. Ireland
03:05 PM LeelooMinai: One good thing of Trump is that in other places people will be more vigilent and if they see a potential troll, they will act:)
03:05 PM roycroft: and if there were another vote that day it would almost certainly have failed
03:07 PM MrHindsight: no remorse here, we love our great pumpkin
03:08 PM LeelooMinai: MrHindsight: But look at your nick:p
03:09 PM sync: suavesteve: they are getting rekt?
03:09 PM suavesteve: Rekt?
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: Remainds me this "news" I read where someone edited pictures of students in the yearbook or what it was - one had a shirt with "MAGA" on it and they removed it, and then he complained, etc. - when he grows older hw eill realize that they did him a favour:)
03:18 PM LeelooMinai: BTW, if someone buys metal from metalsupermarkets they have a contest where you can send a pic of something you made using steel/aluminum/whatever you got from there and other people vote and you can win some gadget.
03:18 PM sync: suavesteve: wrecked
03:20 PM suavesteve: I thought that's what you meant. Not sure if that's how I'd put it; they're pretty unhappy since they just now realised that's what's been funding them for so long; also, a bus lied to them, that's upsetting, too.
03:21 PM LeelooMinai: I sent my CNC frame pic, but, cannnot really compete with crazy people, like someone that made a huge spider from welded metal...
03:23 PM LeelooMinai: Or welded a frame for some ultralight plane:)
03:24 PM sync: well, typical farmers suavesteve
03:24 PM LeelooMinai: "a bus lied to them" <- what does it mean?
03:27 PM suavesteve: pbs.twimg.com/media/C24Q7_SWEAAwyBe.jpg
03:28 PM suavesteve: They seemed to think they £350 million sent to the EU every week (as claimed by the bus) would instead go to the health service and farmers
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, my mom bugs me about this - any recommendation on how to restore a wooden "plank" that is flat on the wall beneath of the front door? It's uneven, tons of pits and peeling paint, etc.
03:51 PM LeelooMinai: I cannot just put another one on top unfortunatelly.
03:51 PM FinboySlick: From a broader-strokes philosophical standpoint though ( leaving aside the crooked people running politics ), isn't it better to distribute the 'government' tasks over as small an entity as possible? I mean, you know they'll screw up so wouldn't you want smaller government screwing up the lives or smaller groups of people? Centralizing the whole thing means less chances of actually getting it right somewhere.
03:52 PM LeelooMinai: Was thinking maybe using some kind of "wood filler"-like substance to make new surface on the plank and then paint.
03:53 PM LeelooMinai: FinboySlick: Imo make AI computer and put it in charge of making decisions:)
03:53 PM LeelooMinai: (what can go wrong)
03:53 PM FinboySlick: They made a few movies about that ;)
03:54 PM LeelooMinai: Right, probably...
03:55 PM LeelooMinai: I did not really think about "solutions" to those problems much. I only noticed politics a year ago because "what's going on, are they on drugs?":)
03:56 PM LeelooMinai: Probably going through classic stages of disbielief, anger, depression, acceptance - close to acceptance now:p
03:57 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, maybe I should just smear tons of wood filler on this board...
03:58 PM LeelooMinai: ... or it will fall off later from flatter areas.
04:15 PM roycroft: i can tell you that the majority of democrats are still in denial
04:15 PM roycroft: they haven't progressed to the later stages yet
04:15 PM roycroft: and won't until they get past denial
04:16 PM roycroft: i have friends who are still barely speaking to me at this point
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: Why?
04:16 PM roycroft: they're pissed off because they say "nobody could have predicted that trump would win" and i remind them that i told them for a year before the election that he had a good chance of winning if they did not get their act together
04:17 PM XXCoder: roy you cant imanage how much I warned people back then
04:17 PM roycroft: but instead, they picked the worst possible candidate to put up against him
04:17 PM roycroft: probably about as much as i did, xxcoder
04:18 PM LeelooMinai: It's all rotten to the core from what I see (politics) - not sure if anything non-drastic can change anything by now.
04:18 PM XXCoder: hilliary isnt she-devil, that was from russia stuff sadly
04:19 PM roycroft: i did not say she is a she-devil
04:19 PM XXCoder: shes not perfect, nobody are. but she isnt evil
04:19 PM roycroft: i said she was the worst candidate to put up against him
04:19 PM XXCoder: she should have had done ok, if weaker than bernie would done
04:21 PM roycroft: she was doomed from the start, because of the clinton baggage (most of which is fake baggage, but that doesn't matter)
04:21 PM roycroft: and she was horrible on messaging
04:21 PM roycroft: the whole democratic party were
04:22 PM XXCoder: agreed
04:22 PM XXCoder: one of my favorites from that period https://imgur.com/97dvJnN
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: Good summary:)
04:25 PM XXCoder: bird and bernie really happened though, it was one of those random events
04:25 PM XXCoder: that bird is not trainable kind
04:26 PM XXCoder: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eqVEzGOM7m0/maxresdefault.jpg
04:27 PM LeelooMinai: I remember. To be fair though, people who view Bernie as some kind of "too nice socialist dreaming person" do not really get it - he can be quite fierce at dealing with politicians that try to BS people as they usually do and pretend they want to make an averge person life's better.
04:28 PM XXCoder: yeah till you look at voting record of his
04:28 PM SpeedEvil: I would logically have said he's too old for any attempt in 2020. Buuut.
04:28 PM XXCoder: he works with everyone, what we need with deeply split partities in usa
04:29 PM XXCoder: he actually follows what his region people wants too. he was kinda pro-gun, but also pro-gun register insurance so on
04:29 PM roycroft: one of my senators, jeff merkley, has had his name tossed around lately as a potential 2020 candidate
04:29 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how i feel about that
04:29 PM roycroft: because he's such a great senator, i'd hate to have to replace him :)
04:29 PM XXCoder: :)
04:29 PM SpeedEvil: Then there is the stupid question of 'does it need to be a politician'.
04:29 PM SpeedEvil: Which is obviously not so stupid anymore
04:29 PM XXCoder: bet ya whats what his region felt last election
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: I think Trump answered it:)
04:30 PM XXCoder: though I bet they wish they lost their senate to presidence.
04:30 PM SpeedEvil: Trump hasn't quite answered it.
04:30 PM Tom_L: i swear about every other day i view the scrollback it's about politics here anymore
04:30 PM SpeedEvil: Though he may have put it off.
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: Yes, he did - it cannot be a bussinessman, a carpenter, and also not an ornitologist.
04:30 PM XXCoder: *they now wish
04:31 PM LeelooMinai: And a brain surgeon neither:p
04:31 PM roycroft: we should try to stay more on-topic
04:32 PM roycroft: or at least more on something remotely related to the topic
04:32 PM JT-Shop: on-topic here you got to be kidding lol
04:32 PM roycroft: i hear trump has never operated a lathe in his life
04:32 PM roycroft: there :)
04:32 PM XXCoder: heh someone twitter that quick
04:33 PM XXCoder: see if trump attempts it
04:33 PM roycroft: trump banned some guy who was calling him out on twitter
04:33 PM roycroft: now the guy is suing trump on first amendment grounds
04:34 PM roycroft: since the white house has declared that trump's tweets are official statements, the claim may have merit
04:34 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, right, back to CNCs. Anyone knows that company? https://goo.gl/idOb4L
04:34 PM XXCoder: on POTUS or his real trump acct?
04:34 PM roycroft: on whatever account he uses to tweet
04:34 PM roycroft: i don't follow his tweets
04:34 PM roycroft: i try avoid twitter at all cost
04:34 PM SpeedEvil: There is no POTUS and real account
04:34 PM roycroft: i just read about his tweets
04:34 PM SpeedEvil: it's all personal
04:34 PM SpeedEvil: or POTUS
04:35 PM SpeedEvil: one.
04:35 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop i may pull the plug on the logs if it doesn't change
04:35 PM XXCoder: yeah though former can be defined as statements from goverment and latter is personal, even if he uses both the same.
04:35 PM XXCoder: first might have case on 1st, while latter does nit
04:35 PM XXCoder: not
04:36 PM roycroft: if the white house declares that they are official statements (which it did) then it may have merit
04:36 PM XXCoder: indeed
04:36 PM LeelooMinai: "Tiny hands, tiny feet, all he does is tweet, tweet, tweet"
04:36 PM roycroft: just as clinton's operating a personal email server did not exclude it from the official documents rules
04:36 PM XXCoder: time to convert time and energy to money
04:36 PM SpeedEvil: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Lathe_Of_Heaven.html as an aside, I recommend
04:37 PM roycroft: anyway, we're annoying others with this discussion
04:37 PM roycroft: we should stop doing that
04:42 PM LeelooMinai: lol: https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.fubar-iii.1000497923.html
04:49 PM roycroft: i saw an interesting and pertinent video last night about cutting metric threads on a lathe with an inch lead screw
04:49 PM roycroft: it showed a technique for being able to disengage the half nut while threading, to avoid running into a shoulder
04:49 PM roycroft: i shall have to try that when i cut metric threads soon
04:51 PM Deejay: gn8
05:37 PM LeelooMinai: *sigh* I guy brought 60kg robot to 100kg robot fight and his explanation "you have to trade speed for weight"...
05:37 PM dioz: that isn't how it works
05:37 PM dioz: look at tanks
05:37 PM dioz: tanks are the best example hete
05:37 PM dioz: here
05:38 PM LeelooMinai: And after the fight (when it was thrown out basically of the arena by a flipper,) he also complains that the traction was not so good... duh
05:39 PM LeelooMinai: Obviously you make the robot as close to 100kg as possible - if you have 30kg spare or so, just put bigger mottor and batteries inside, better armor, etc. Then you have also weight which makes both offence and defence better.
05:40 PM LeelooMinai: I don't get how some of those people even got to the actual competition...
05:41 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: You bremember your fail-trolling from yesterday or now you will pretend that you blacked out? :p
05:44 PM kyle___: I want to build some power armor similar to that of the Fallout games
05:44 PM kyle___: in reality I'll probably get as far as a wacky elbow joint that I'm too afraid to put my arm anywhere near
05:45 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: Your meighbours are so bad? :)
05:45 PM kyle___: haha just for fun
05:46 PM kyle___: I determined I could probably do it with small double-acting hydraulic cylinders and a very small and expensive turboshaft driving a hydraulic gear pump
05:47 PM kyle___: but I only really have the ability to make cast aluminum parts at the moment and those probably just aren't strong enough
05:47 PM LeelooMinai: An exoskeleton-like thing?
05:47 PM kyle___: yeah
05:47 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I think there's a lot of those being build already.
05:48 PM kyle___: the jetcat turboprop would technically be able to supply enough power... on paper
05:48 PM LeelooMinai: I saw some professional-like and DIY
05:48 PM kyle___: hm, yeah, it's a pretty cool idea
05:48 PM kyle___: iirc DARPA was funding a few
05:48 PM dioz: fail trolling? i wasn't the one suggesting education is comparable to non-education and that google is just as good as formal education
05:48 PM dioz: lulz
05:49 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, it's cool, but nowadays I imediatelly wonder if it will be used for nice purposes or bad ones:)
05:49 PM dioz: you have issues with the learning institutions. that sounds like a you problem. lulz
05:49 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: O god, no... tell me that you are drunk again today and it's not your normal argumentation:)
05:50 PM LeelooMinai: I do?
05:50 PM dioz: sounds as such.
05:51 PM LeelooMinai: I do not remember saying anything specific about any institutions. Mostly my point was "don't underestimate what one can learn alone, especiallyu in the age of internet".
05:51 PM dioz: yah. i bet that was all you were saying.
05:51 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I was saying that... So, what's the problem? :)
05:52 PM dioz: so what was the argument about then?
05:52 PM LeelooMinai: ...
05:53 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: How about you read the log and see what was the argument. It was mostly you trying to billitle anyone without formal education.
05:53 PM dioz: lol
05:53 PM dioz: i definitely wasn't. i'm feel sorry that you think that.
05:54 PM LeelooMinai: I don't "think that" - you wrote exactly that.
05:54 PM kyle___: o boy
05:54 PM kyle___: I dropped out of college and now I work for a really successful silicon valley company
05:55 PM dioz: because i was suggesting that having a certificate is better than not having a certificate?
05:55 PM kyle___: definitely don't underestimate self-learning on the internet!
05:55 PM dioz: kyle___: don't get me wrong. there are outliers. i still wouldn't bank on it
05:55 PM kyle___: depends on what you're doing
05:55 PM dioz: not really.
05:55 PM kyle___: if you're going into software, don't waste your time and money on college
05:55 PM dioz: depends who you know
05:55 PM kyle___: it's a huge scam
05:55 PM dioz: and who you get to talk to
05:56 PM dioz: in most situations you go through hr
05:56 PM kyle___: I had no connections here
05:56 PM LeelooMinai: Right, programming is a good example.
05:56 PM dioz: and hr looks for certain things
05:56 PM kyle___: we actually dropped college degree requirements for engineers here
05:56 PM dioz: i hear your opinion but it isn't statistically correct
05:56 PM kyle___: it's not really an opinion
05:56 PM kyle___: we literally do not require a college degree anymore
05:56 PM dioz: it's the supposition that individuals should be able to by-pass formal education
05:57 PM dioz: that is false supposition
05:57 PM kyle___: calling this statistically incorrect is kind of disingenuous
05:57 PM dioz: to suggest otherwise
05:57 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: But that's your imagination/conclusion. The point is not that, the point is that formal education does not automatically make you more competent that someone without it.
05:58 PM kyle___: there's an increasing number of software companies dropping their degree requirements
05:58 PM kyle___: they obviously aren't doing this for no reason
05:58 PM dioz: so what you're saying is currently there are businesses with a cs degree requirment?
05:58 PM dioz: hmm. i wonder the fuck why
05:58 PM dioz: lol
05:58 PM kyle___: they reviewed their stats and decided that they're losing good potential candidates
05:58 PM dioz: oh?
05:59 PM kyle___: have you seen how much it costs to get a degree lately?
05:59 PM dioz: i'm now gonna request cites
05:59 PM dioz: your outlandish comments are getting too crazy for me
05:59 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Your faith in educational institutions is disturbing:)
05:59 PM kyle___: https://corp.roblox.com/jobs/?gh_jid=224208
06:00 PM kyle___: you will not find a requirement for a degree on this page
06:00 PM dioz: no i want cites. not a job search
06:00 PM kyle___: lol, then you're being ridiculous.
06:00 PM dioz: i am?
06:00 PM kyle___: my claim was that my company dropped the degree requirement
06:00 PM kyle___: I proved it to you
06:00 PM kyle___: what more do you want?
06:01 PM dioz: you stated there is an increase number of businesses doing such
06:01 PM dioz: scroll back a few lines bud
06:01 PM kyle___: indeed
06:01 PM dioz: increasing number?
06:01 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: It's like you live in some country on Mars or something:)
06:01 PM dioz: one example?
06:01 PM dioz: lol
06:01 PM kyle___: https://careers.google.com/jobs#!t=jo&jid=/google/software-engineer-1600-amphitheatre-pkwy-mountain-view-ca-6540009&f=true&
06:01 PM kyle___: "BS degree in Computer Science, similar technical field of study or equivalent practical experience."
06:02 PM dioz: that doesn't mean dropped
06:02 PM kyle___: "or equivalent practical experience."
06:02 PM kyle___: yes, it does
06:02 PM dioz: that is called most elligebale candidate
06:02 PM dioz: lol you have no clue how hr works
06:02 PM kyle___: I sure do
06:02 PM dioz: yah i bet
06:02 PM dioz: lol
06:03 PM kyle___: anyway you're just derailing a perfectly good conversation
06:03 PM kyle___: so to put it less politely, fuck off
06:03 PM dioz: am i?
06:03 PM dioz: i'm not the one making outlandish claims
06:03 PM kyle___: we need some ops here to clean out trolls
06:03 PM dioz: i agree
06:03 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: If you are good, you won't even have to worry about things like that. When I was employed first time, a company made me an offer basically.
06:04 PM LeelooMinai: And they did not care at all about my education.
06:04 PM dioz: LeelooMinai: and i said agree there are outliers. however i woudln't bank on it
06:04 PM dioz: i agree
06:04 PM dioz: how do you know you'll get that at your next job?
06:04 PM LeelooMinai: Why not - makes sense. Most small companies are interested in results and can look into each employer. With big ones there's probably more layers of abstraction, etc.
06:05 PM kyle___: at my company, HR doesn't talk to candidates until we're extending an offer
06:05 PM dioz: maybe you won't even get screened in cause no requirements?
06:05 PM kyle___: recruiting is a separate thing
06:05 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Or maybe you will have your wonderful degree and will end up selling hamburgers:)
06:05 PM kyle___: degrees are pointless for software development specifically
06:06 PM kyle___: it's a competitive field, so lazily drifting through a CS program will not get you a job even if you get a degree
06:06 PM LeelooMinai: Times change... There are things like like Trump University, and other weirdness.
06:06 PM kyle___: and the program will not teach you well enough to be useful to a company
06:06 PM kyle___: you're going to self-teach almost everything anyway
06:06 PM kyle___: why pay a university for it when it's all on the internet?
06:07 PM kyle___: the reality is that younger candidates without a degree are often better than candidates of the same age group WITH a degree
06:07 PM kyle___: because my generation has been told from a very young age that we MUST get degrees or we will never be anything
06:08 PM kyle___: now degrees cost in excess of $100k
06:08 PM kyle___: meaning getting a degree is no longer about your own aptitude, it is about how much debt you're willing to take on
06:08 PM LeelooMinai: Well, people with CS degrees at my old work were kind of clueless about actually creating real-world code.
06:08 PM LeelooMinai: They seemed pretty lost.
06:08 PM LeelooMinai: And not really beneficial to the company.
06:09 PM kyle___: yeah, I haven't really seen any examples of a CS course teaching something actually useful
06:09 PM kyle___: it's just a perfect storm
06:09 PM kyle___: none of the professors are going to be good because the good ones left academia for a lucrative private sector career...
06:10 PM sync: well, a CS degree is not supposed to teach you how to code, at least not at university level
06:10 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: BTW, in case you think I am saying that to trying to excuse something - I was on deans honour list at mathematics/cs program at a good university, so, I will save you trying to attack me this way:p
06:10 PM kyle___: you're right, sync
06:11 PM kyle___: it's just that for most software dev jobs, the actual skills and knowledge you need are increasingly further from what you get from a CS degree
06:11 PM kyle___: hard computer science is almost dead, honestly
06:12 PM kyle___: it's almost like going to school to learn how to develop new ways to paint
06:12 PM kyle___: tons of people use paint, but no one's really pioneering any new methods anymore
06:13 PM LeelooMinai: Another problem is that programming is a bit crazy discippline - the amount of details and changing tools/technologies and scenarios is often so complex, that your ability to adapt to this and work efficeintly trumps anything else.
06:13 PM kyle___: ^
06:13 PM LeelooMinai: You can look up theory, but if you cannot adapt, no theory will save you.
06:14 PM kyle___: that is 100% true and is the main motivation for why we dropped college degree requirements
06:14 PM kyle___: since having a degree does not imply an ability to adapt
06:14 PM kyle___: but in reality, there's a lot more to recruiting than just requirements on a job listing
06:15 PM kyle___: like all silicon valley startups, we're trying to find the highest quality candidates possible and we have a huge budget to sling around to ensure that we get them
06:15 PM kyle___: but we're not google, so most of our trouble is discoverability
06:16 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: Did they buy MRI machine for brain scans? :)
06:16 PM kyle___: haha not yet
06:16 PM kyle___: right now we just stick candidates in a room with one of our russians and have the russian find out if they're bullshitters or not
06:16 PM LeelooMinai: "sorry, your memory cluster area has too little volume", bye
06:17 PM kyle___: I just realized that I made it sound like I'm calling myself one of these highest quality candidates
06:17 PM kyle___: I didn't mean it like that; they started that drive after hiring me ;)
06:17 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: I was expescting "And yes, I am The Russian"
06:18 PM kyle___: alas, I do not possess the Russian coding ability
06:18 PM kyle___: it's sort of an inside joke because we have quite a few russian engineers and they're definitely among the most productive and intelligent in the company
06:19 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, well, but you know how Russians are - they will build you a nuclear submarine and decide that to solve radiation problem they will just cycle the crew more often:)
06:20 PM kyle___: there's some truth to that joke...
06:20 PM LeelooMinai: It's not a joke - they actually did that:)
06:20 PM kyle___: lol, at least in the context of the russians I know
06:21 PM LeelooMinai: They tend to be a bit too practical at times I guess.
06:21 PM kyle___: on a different note, does anyone know of a "DIY" attempt at single-crystal casting?
06:21 PM kyle___: I've seen lots of youtube videos of people doing metal casting at home
06:21 PM kyle___: but haven't seen any of someone attempting anything more complicated
06:22 PM LeelooMinai: I am not going to google this - I am afraid I will end up making a furnace at home or something similar./
06:22 PM kyle___: bah, do it, it's fun
06:22 PM kyle___: I have three already
06:22 PM LeelooMinai: You do
06:22 PM LeelooMinai: And what you are doing with that cast metal?
06:22 PM kyle___: 2 and a half, sort of
06:22 PM kyle___: well, I was going to build a gingery lathe
06:23 PM kyle___: but then I decided my time and money would be better spent looking for an old lathe on craigslist
06:23 PM kyle___: so I've just been melting soda cans
06:23 PM LeelooMinai: You could decide that before building those furnaces:)
06:24 PM kyle___: well the furnaces were fun
06:24 PM kyle___: the first one was cement+sand in terra cotta pots
06:24 PM kyle___: but that scared me a bit
06:24 PM kyle___: and it didn't have great airflow
06:25 PM LeelooMinai: But where dd you keep them, outside?
06:25 PM kyle___: the second attempt was galvanized steel buckets with 50/50 plaster+sand
06:25 PM kyle___: yeah, outside in the back yard
06:25 PM dioz: hah. you got a degree in cs so now you think you baws.
06:25 PM dioz: basically a rocket scientist
06:26 PM dioz: up and coming steven hawkings
06:26 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Come on... What are you going to troll again? :)
06:26 PM kyle___: lol, just ignore the troll
06:26 PM dioz: am i really thr one trolling here?
06:26 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Yes...
06:26 PM kyle___: the third forge is incomplete, it's going to be an arc furnace basically
06:26 PM dioz: i'd say you the trolls
06:26 PM kyle___: take an arc welder but put some graphite sticks in it, melt metal with the plasma
06:26 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Because what?
06:27 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: So that graphite stick does what?
06:27 PM LeelooMinai: I mean in comparison to steel one.
06:27 PM dioz: because the supposition that one is just as good, with regards to recruitment, without a cert or some form of formal education vs. without is absolute nonsense
06:27 PM dioz: without vs. with
06:28 PM dioz: on the matter at hand
06:28 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: No it's not, and depends on circumstances, kind of work, etc. - you cannot argue with that:)
06:28 PM kyle___: well, graphite is conductive, but graphite doesn't really... melt
06:28 PM dioz: and i agreed there are outliers but it isn't that way for the common majority
06:28 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: Isn't it like TIG then?
06:28 PM dioz: to suggest otherwise is foolish
06:29 PM kyle___: sort of, I suppose
06:29 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: No one was even suggesting what you say was suggested...
06:29 PM kyle___: but there's no inert gas or anything
06:29 PM dioz: that has been the premise of the argument from the start
06:29 PM kyle___: it's basically just a high current arc across the two electrodes
06:29 PM dioz: what do you think we've bee arguing about?
06:29 PM kyle___: that ionizes the air around it and you can direct that ionized air onto a piece of metal
06:30 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: No, the premise was that formal education is not the "be all" for being qualified. Only that.
06:30 PM dioz: formal education and the certificates or diplomas of such are a better indicator than not
06:31 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: Ionised gas = plasma?
06:31 PM dioz: some joe walks in vs. some dude with certs... i'mma probably be lookin at the guy w/ certs first
06:31 PM kyle___: that's my understanding, yeah
06:31 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Maybe, but even this is not necessarily the case - you can actually decrease your chances with that.
06:31 PM dioz: citrs
06:32 PM dioz: cites
06:32 PM dioz: i'm pretty sure statistically i am correct
06:32 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Just use a bit of imagination - it's not really such a strange concept.
06:32 PM dioz: so you're suggesting an outlier?
06:32 PM kyle___: LeelooMinai, just /ignore dioz
06:32 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: I am just saying that it's not a rule, and depends on many factors.
06:32 PM dioz: or a typical case?
06:32 PM kyle___: he's one of those autistic types that needs citations in normal conversation
06:33 PM kyle___: not worth your time
06:33 PM dioz: when it comes to outlandish comments i ask for cites
06:33 PM dioz: anyone can make platitudes
06:34 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: There is nothing outlandish in what was said.
06:35 PM dioz: to suggest a person is just as well off without formal education or certificates?
06:35 PM dioz: lul. ok bud
06:35 PM dioz: and i'm the troll.
06:35 PM kyle___: anyway, my charcoal furnace can do about 1500 F, but this arc furnace should be able to get up to 3500 F
06:36 PM LeelooMinai: It's very simplle. Times change, kind of work in demand changes, people attitudes change, etc.
06:36 PM dioz: maybe yours has
06:36 PM dioz: lol
06:36 PM LeelooMinai: kyle: What is that F nonsense - I thought you are in civilised country:)
06:36 PM dioz: 9/5 and 32
06:37 PM kyle___: F for freedom
06:37 PM dioz: if yoi don't know how to convert you fail
06:37 PM kyle___: 815 C to 1926 C
06:37 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Well, I don't know - as I said, seems you are from some another planet. That's not what I observe.
06:37 PM kyle___: the charcoal furnace is enough for aluminum, which is best cast at around 1300-1400 F afaik
06:37 PM dioz: for being a degree holder as well as pretending to fabricate and can't convert units?
06:38 PM kyle___: the arc furnace should be able to do cast iron and steel though
06:38 PM dioz: rough
06:38 PM dioz: i'm just a lowly tin banger
06:38 PM dioz: and i know how to convert c to f
06:38 PM LeelooMinai: "pretending to fabricate" - lol, what does that even mean:)
06:38 PM kyle___: in reality I'm going to need to build a much more complex setup that can pour without needing me to pick up a crucible with tongs
06:39 PM dioz: i'll tell you the "close enough" version
06:39 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: I give you 3/10 on trolling - seen worse, but you are not really that good:)
06:39 PM kyle___: so that'll be a fun weekend soon
06:39 PM dioz: it's 1/2 and 32
06:39 PM dioz: i imagine close enough is good for you ;)
06:40 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: If you want to go higher in the skill, one tip would be choosing your "victims" better:p
06:40 PM dioz: do you know what a btu is?
06:40 PM kyle___: oh, and I'll probably also have to get my big arc welder running
06:41 PM dioz: smaw
06:41 PM kyle___: 2400 VA just won't cut it
06:41 PM dioz: what size do electrodes come in?
06:41 PM dioz: if i had 6011 what do all those numbers mean?
06:41 PM dioz: e6011
06:41 PM kyle___: no one cares dioz
06:41 PM dioz: what does the 3rd number mean
06:42 PM dioz: lol. pretending to weld
06:42 PM kyle___: jeez, leeloo, you're right, this is a shit troll
06:42 PM kyle___: ah, to be 12 years old again
06:42 PM dioz: and know more than you about smaw
06:42 PM LeelooMinai: Well, one has to start with something - I hope it's just initial straining stages:)
06:43 PM dioz: what is the difference between dc+ and dc- when welding steel?
06:43 PM TurBoss: I need a sleep... or maybe a coffe
06:43 PM kyle___: #linuxcnc is such a bizarre target too
06:43 PM LeelooMinai: Right, the average age here seems to be pretty high and overall not the best place to troll.
06:43 PM dioz: which one gives more penetration?
06:44 PM kyle___: yer mom
06:44 PM kyle___: back to the ignore list with this one
06:44 PM dioz: which way does the electricity flow?
06:44 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: -> that way :)
06:44 PM dioz: close enough for a cs degree
06:45 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Mathematics + CS:p
06:45 PM dioz: oooh!. tell me about set notation
06:46 PM dioz: draw me some venn diagrams bud
06:46 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: I am starting wondering if you are still drunk from yesterday or what...
06:46 PM kyle___: funny thing is that he thought I was pretending to weld when I was talking about building an arc furnace
06:46 PM kyle___: what a dumbass
06:46 PM dioz: do a sinusoidal regression formula for me
06:47 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Your whole trolling is sinusoidal regression:p
06:47 PM dioz: yah cause you made no mention of getting you "big arc welder going"
06:47 PM dioz: you fucking delusional muppet
06:47 PM kyle___: it takes a lot of intelligence to troll correctly, this guy seems lacking
06:48 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, well, trolling requires fast adaptation too. He should change the strategy long time ago, seeing that it's not working:)
06:48 PM kyle___: the whole point is to not look like a COMPLETE idiot
06:49 PM kyle___: but if you're making fun of someone for doing A and they're actually just doing B, then you're completely missing the mark
06:49 PM kyle___: not even trolling at that point, just drunken rambles
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: I guess no Troll degree:)
06:49 PM dioz: y~ax^3*bx^2*cx*d ?
06:49 PM kyle___: pitiful
06:50 PM dioz: no that's a quebic regression i think.
06:50 PM dioz: qubic
06:50 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: Go scare art students with those imo:p
06:50 PM kyle___: single crystal casting is pretty cool though
06:51 PM LeelooMinai: Unless you put the house on fire...
06:51 PM kyle___: it's okay, I'm renting
06:51 PM LeelooMinai: And they let you build those?
06:51 PM kyle___: I have a pretty cool landlord, I suppose
06:52 PM kyle___: I fix things on his property, he doesn't complain about what I build, it's a good deal
06:52 PM LeelooMinai: Very brave man:)
06:53 PM kyle___: I think he just trusts that I take necessary precautions :P
06:53 PM kyle___: hopefully
06:53 PM kyle___: there's not too much that can go wrong with the charcoal forge anyway
06:54 PM kyle___: it's very contained
06:54 PM dioz: i imagine you guys think codes are recomendations and permits mean nothing too
06:54 PM dioz: amiright?
06:55 PM kyle___: the patio I've been working with it on is made of red brick, so there's little chance of spalling or anything if molten metal lands on it
06:55 PM kyle___: it's probably slightly better at taking the heat than my forge itself
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: I just realized that there's a kind of forge in my backard
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: But, my dad built it long time ago from what seems to be concrete and stainless steel for sausages or something:)
06:57 PM LeelooMinai: Don't make me attempt to convert it to a forge, please:)
06:58 PM kyle___: do it, it's fun!
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: I guess maybe if someone is into making sword replicas and things like that.
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: I can see it being useful then.
07:00 PM dioz: you a cs degree and still live w/ your parents?
07:00 PM dioz: lol
07:00 PM dioz: here i am a lowly trade guy
07:00 PM djdelorie: what did they trade you for?
07:01 PM dioz: 2 goats and a 15 decameters squared of land
07:01 PM kyle___: https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues/june-2015-online/jewel-in-the-crown-rolls-royces-single-crystal-turbine-blade-casting-foundry/ this is a nice but super high level overview of how rolls-royce does single crystal casting
07:01 PM kyle___: the process seems surprisingly simple
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: dioz: I never heard anyone on IRC trolling someone about living with parents... O, wait:)
07:02 PM dioz: i never seen someone with a cs degree still living with their parents
07:02 PM LeelooMinai: How about other degrees? :)
07:02 PM dioz: arts degrees yah
07:03 PM dioz: comp sci though. i bet you got a huge savings account
07:03 PM dioz: do your parents charge you rent?
07:04 PM dioz: i'd probably drive a f550 if i could live at home and not pay rent
07:04 PM dioz: shwing!
07:08 PM dioz: not a brand new one though cause that's a waste of money
07:09 PM dioz: i'd say the best ford engine was the 7.3 idi
07:09 PM dioz: 2001
07:09 PM dioz: with the turbo is pretty good too
07:09 PM dioz: million mile motors
10:12 PM MrHindsight: 5-axis stepper mania https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Fl8L4yk8M
10:14 PM LeelooMinai: MrHindsight: Well, that's easy when you have like 0 forces to fight with:)
10:55 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser