#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 08 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM Tom_L: auto etc also use it quite a bit
12:02 AM Tom_L: alot of major industry does
12:02 AM Tom_L: gnite
12:02 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, just checked SolidEdge prices (it's from Siemens) - it's not that bad, from 140 to 600 per month
12:02 AM LeelooMinai: I mean not bad for a company, not a poor hobbyist.
12:02 AM Tom_L: both sw and catia are dassault products
12:03 AM Tom_L: i did cad cam years back and got smartcam for ~6-8k at the time
12:03 AM Tom_L: it paid for itself in the first year
12:03 AM Tom_L: mastercam is the choice for many smaller shops nowdays
12:04 AM Tom_L: most around here have gone to catia though
12:04 AM LeelooMinai: Well, I guess now thay have competitor in Fusion since it's CAD + CAM
12:05 AM Tom_L: shops aren't gonna jump ship and retrain and reprogram everything
12:05 AM LeelooMinai: Yes, but new ones will. That integration has some advantages.
12:05 AM Tom_L: mastercam is a full package
12:06 AM LeelooMinai: I think that NYC CNC guy mentioned he was using it before, but now switched to Fusion
12:06 AM Tom_L: probably due to cost
12:07 AM Tom_L: since fusion is free for small business
12:07 AM LeelooMinai: That mastercam is probably more mature and has more features, but right, I think it's much more expensive.
12:07 AM Tom_L: at the time i preferred smartcam over mastercam
12:07 AM Tom_L: i dunno what i would choose today
12:08 AM Tom_L: i can model fairly quick in catia but it's cam sucks imo
12:24 AM DrippityDrops: Morrrrnin
12:29 AM Crom: so sore...long day....cleaning a garage getting it ready for a ham radio repeater and ham shack, sewing for 5 hours, then out to the stage to finish props and a bit of lighting and wirings...
12:31 AM Crom: found some photo resist circuit board I can mill for a board or three I can make my sensor board for my end endstops
12:32 AM LeelooMinai: Crom: Insane - considering nowadays you can get boards for ridiculous prices.
12:32 AM Crom: and power distribution board
12:32 AM Crom: I like free,,,
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: It's not free - you are tormenting yourself and loosing time:p
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: losing*
12:35 AM Crom: I already have connectors...
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: So? Just order the boards itself.
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: I mean design/order.
12:35 AM Crom: no mopney.. I have time and now I have board too
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: You will get professional boards with nice features, proper solder mask, etc.
12:35 AM Crom: oh well...
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: Crom: Where are you located?
12:35 AM Crom: in southern Califonria hour and a half from either LA or San Diego
12:35 AM LeelooMinai: Pff... If you don't like China, you can order very nice and cheap boards from oshpark.
12:36 AM LeelooMinai: I made a lot of boards and ordered from them, many 4 layer even: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16227550363/in/dateposted-public/
12:37 AM LeelooMinai: They are good unless your board is huge, since they price them per area. And you get 3 copies. With China you can get 10 copies for low price usually.
12:38 AM LeelooMinai: oshpark ones are ENIG plated though and have 5/5 mil rules.
12:38 AM LeelooMinai: And this is extra $$ in other places.
12:38 AM LeelooMinai: But anyways - 10 5 by 5 cm 2 layer 6/6 boards from China are like $10:)
12:39 AM LeelooMinai: So $1 per one.
12:40 AM LeelooMinai: But still nice: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/17300300394/in/dateposted-public/
12:41 AM LeelooMinai: You design. order, can even get cheap SS stencil from oshstencil, paste, place SMD components, oven, and you have great board.
12:42 AM LeelooMinai: For cheap.
12:59 AM LeelooMinai: Pff, "The oldest fossil remains of Homo sapiens, dating back to 300,000 years, have been found at a site in Jebel Irhoud, Morocco."
01:00 AM LeelooMinai: It was 100, then 200, now 300
02:20 AM Deejay: moin
02:40 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
02:57 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: Q wie heisen die Eckogen kabeldurchführungen
03:24 AM IchGucksLive: till later
04:11 AM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
06:06 AM jthornton: morning
06:06 AM XXCoder: yo
06:06 AM Deejay: hey
06:32 AM jthornton: hmm the DS3231 also tells you the temperature
07:25 AM jthornton: gotta love it when a simple arduino example uses pointers
07:46 AM archivist_herron: pointers are easy, it is the variation in use of them that makes them obscure to some
07:51 AM archivist_herron: I prefer the term pointer/register indirect rather the awful invention of "dereference"
08:08 AM JT-Shop: yea dereference is not easy to grasp what they mean
09:05 AM nubcake_ is now known as nubcake
09:26 AM Simonious: Did CamBam ever grow up and start working reasonably well or is F360 still the only game for cheapskates?
09:35 AM archivist_herron: real cheapskates use insiderearskullcam anf hand code
09:36 AM Simonious: time is valuable...
09:36 AM gregcnc: you can't beat F360 for now
09:37 AM Simonious: damn, okay, thanks
09:38 AM gregcnc: If F360 isn't good enoguh you have to pay to play
09:39 AM Simonious: I do so little CAM, I can't really justify the expense
09:39 AM Simonious: I know a guy who uses vectric and while he seems to like it, it looks nasty to me.
09:39 AM archivist_herron: there are other free options depends on culture and what you are making
09:41 AM DaViruz: i've used vectric cut2d a bit. it's very simple and limited, which is perfect for a lot of my uses
09:43 AM Simonious: I do things like: https://goo.gl/photos/YDXff1jHMmTFEEt17
09:43 AM Simonious: or name things for the kids
09:43 AM Simonious: might cut out parts for a kid's wooden train, that sort of thing.
09:43 AM Simonious: The router table isn't even mine, but I've got unrestricted access to it.
09:44 AM Simonious: I'm interested in doing grayscale to 3d relief, but I'm not at that level yet.
10:37 AM jdh: I use cut2d a lot. it is simple and speedy
11:12 AM Loetmichel: *HEYHOO!* convertible is back on my backyard... the shop took 1100 eur for the engine swap... but it includes a new intake AND exhaust manifold (didnt fit the "new" used engine i provided)... anyways, its a convertible, the tank is full to the brim,i have a half full e-cig and a dead cigarette lighter, its bright and sunny outside.. lets go for a run! :-)
11:14 AM roycroft: just put on your black suit and hat, dark sunglasses, and hit the road
11:17 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: THAT was the idea ;)
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: Aloris Wedge vs Piston tool post
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: what's your preference and why?
11:23 AM gregcnc: i've only used wedge, and chinaco
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: I see now that I has posted a trick question
11:24 AM gregcnc: Aloris probably doesn't make piston type?
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: genuine Aloris is only mit the wedges
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: jah
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: http://shop.aloris.com/aloris-products/Aloris-super-precision-tool-post/super-precision-tool-post-BXA
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: the copycatzen make dem mitz the pistons
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: sorry just watched Dr. Stranglove
11:29 AM gregcnc: nevr heard any complaints about aloris
11:30 AM Simonious: trying to set up F360 for a plasma cut and I keep getting a popup on the cam, "Diameter must be postivie and non-zero!", I've just used defaults, went with 'trace' operation.
11:30 AM roycroft: i have a phase ii wedge type
11:30 AM roycroft: we used them at school, and they work well
11:30 AM roycroft: i consider phase ii the high end of the imports
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: seems I've only had knocking off piston types
11:31 AM roycroft: i haven't ever used an actual aloris, though, so i don't know if there's an appreciable difference in quality
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: Aloris will cut the t-slot for you
11:32 AM roycroft: ve must not have a tool holder gap!
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: and I'm sure every holder meets or exceeds spec
12:01 PM McAFK is now known as McBride36
12:11 PM phipli: morning
12:12 PM JT-Shop: afternoon
12:15 PM phipli: How goes things in JT-Shop-land?
12:18 PM JT-Shop: just came home with a truck load of stuff from the other shop to sort through I did get the DS3231 to work this morning
12:19 PM JT-Shop: the RTC library I got working is a bit difficult to use even though it says it's easy...
12:20 PM phipli: RTCLib is the one I see recommended on the net
12:20 PM phipli: but I've not used it
12:24 PM phipli: election day today
12:24 PM phipli: awesomely, our polling station is in the local pub
12:24 PM phipli: I hear they're giving pizza vouchers (not sure if for free, or discount) to voters
12:25 PM phipli: I love this town
12:25 PM LeelooMinai: phipli: Probably free if you vote for a particular candidate:)
12:27 PM phipli: heh
12:27 PM phipli: used to have things like that a long time ago
12:28 PM phipli: as it is a secret ballot, I'm more than willing to take their pizza and then vote for whoever I like
12:28 PM archivist: just been to the local sprouts to vote
12:29 PM roycroft: i hope the result is good
12:29 PM roycroft: polling shows it pretty much a dead heat
12:29 PM LeelooMinai: Look like somehow everyone now seems to vote - I wonder why is that...
12:29 PM roycroft: but sadly for labour, that's not a good sign
12:30 PM LeelooMinai: Probably next US elections will break the record for % of people voting too.
12:30 PM roycroft: in 11 of the last 19 elections labour polling was overstated and tory polling understated
12:30 PM roycroft: it's all going to hinge on youth turnout
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: which election is this?
12:31 PM roycroft: uk general election
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: heh, it's not even the main headline on the BBC
12:31 PM roycroft: that's typical in the uk
12:31 PM LeelooMinai: lol, Comey is
12:32 PM roycroft: not a whole lot of election reporting on election day
12:32 PM roycroft: until the polls close
12:32 PM roycroft: which isn't for a few yours yet
12:32 PM archivist: BBC almost drops coverage during voting to be impartial
12:32 PM roycroft: hours
12:32 PM roycroft: polls close at 10pm, i believe
12:32 PM roycroft: and first results should be in by midnight
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: I was the BBC news site earlier, it's one of my daily news scans
12:33 PM archivist: 6 hours to wait
12:33 PM LeelooMinai: archivist: Impartial news station - what kind of weird world is that...
12:33 PM CaptHindsight: and didn't notice the small section about the election
12:33 PM roycroft: the bbc are like cnn
12:33 PM roycroft: claim to be impartial, but actually a government mouthpiece
12:34 PM roycroft: the bbc have lost all credibility, sadly
12:34 PM CaptHindsight: tin foil tin foil :)
12:34 PM roycroft: i prefer sources that at least admit their bias
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: I only read the online news sites to keep up on things like the Clooney babies and the Kardashians :)
12:35 PM roycroft: i ignore all of that crap
12:35 PM LeelooMinai: I like too look at few sources at once - it's also pretty funny to see how one story is reported completely differently depending on where. The headlines tend to be totally opposite in message, which is amusing.
12:35 PM roycroft: i ignore most of the crap on the news sites these days
12:36 PM roycroft: it's just too depressing to read all of it
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:36 PM CaptHindsight: and to know what I'm supposed to be scared of today
12:37 PM roycroft: i'm too old for much of anything to scare me any more :)
12:37 PM JT-Shop: phipli: I'll have to try that one out in a while
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: Zika, Kardashians, Chipotle etc
12:37 PM LeelooMinai: I had 0 interest in politics before 2017 - I would not even be able to say who is leading Canada:)
12:38 PM LeelooMinai: Good times:(
12:38 PM * roycroft thinks he'll order some brass plate today and start preparing artwork for making badges
12:39 PM roycroft: i'm really unhappy with the way the half nut is so difficult to engage on my lathe, so i'm leaning towards tearing down the whole saddle/apron assembly and refreshing/refurbishing it
12:39 PM roycroft: i was going to wait a while on that, but if it's difficult to cut threads i should probably deal with it sooner rather than later
12:40 PM roycroft: and that would be the time to clean up and repaint the machine
12:41 PM archivist: I made a drawing of my half nuts and had someone make new while off the machine
12:42 PM roycroft: i have no idea at this point whether i need new ones or the current ones just need to be cleaned up/adjusted
12:42 PM roycroft: but i can still order parts for the machine
12:42 PM roycroft: i'm not sure about half nuts - i should check just so i know
12:43 PM archivist: mine were bald
12:44 PM roycroft: they are available, but they are $147
12:44 PM roycroft: hopfully mine just needs adjusting
12:44 PM roycroft: that's $147 for both
12:45 PM roycroft: but still about $100 more than i'd like to spend if i have to replace them
12:45 PM roycroft: once engaged they work fine
12:45 PM roycroft: it's just difficult to engage them
12:45 PM archivist: can be the slots and pins behind the lever
12:46 PM roycroft: yes, i'm hoping that's the case
12:46 PM roycroft: but i won't know until i pull the apron off
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: homany spam mails is coming in from grabcad
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: iv reda it is a realy miss
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: if they grab your mail
12:46 PM roycroft: it could be full of swarf
12:48 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: I would say not much, but I don't know if I have a junk filter on them.
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: pk
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: ok
12:49 PM phipli: voted
12:49 PM enleth: I hate it when problems go away before getting completely diagnosed
12:49 PM phipli: and nearly bumped into my MP
12:49 PM enleth: my 7i77 started working again
12:49 PM phipli: who happened to be exiting the room just as I walked in
12:49 PM enleth: it's good because it works, and it's bad because I have no idea why
12:50 PM LeelooMinai: I remember once local candidate was actually walking door to door on my street and handing flyers with his picture - thought it was a bit weird, but wgatever.
12:53 PM roycroft: you're working again, enleth?
12:53 PM roycroft: wow
12:54 PM enleth: problem is, it might crap out again
12:55 PM enleth: eh, I'll have the machien apart in a week anyway, so I'll put in a new 24V supply and more shielding
12:55 PM enleth: *machine
12:55 PM enleth: maybe it was just the lack of shielding
12:56 PM archivist: or a bad connection/cable
12:57 PM enleth: could be
12:57 PM roycroft: hmm, the guide plate is in stock at $18, bracket $21, engagement rod out of stock (which likely means gone forever)
12:57 PM enleth: I'll have plenty of time to fix the wiring, as I'll be shipping the motor and spindle off for repairs/mods
12:58 PM enleth: the motor shaft needs welding and turning true before I can replace the dying varispeed with a fixed belt, and I need a through hole in the spindle
01:01 PM * JT-Shop needs to replace the vari speed on the BP with a vector motor and drive
01:04 PM kengu_ is now known as kengu
01:08 PM roycroft: so you'll be doing that when you move the machine?
01:10 PM enleth: someone else will be, but essentially, yes, that's the point
01:11 PM enleth: getting the spindle motor out is a huge PITA without taking the whole head assembly off, so it's a better time than any
01:11 PM enleth: CNC bridgeports have the motor oriented downwards and into a recess in the ram casting
01:12 PM enleth: no way to wiggle it out of there with the transmission chassis in place
01:37 PM Loetmichel: re from curising around in the convertible with the wife... her comment: "pothole-searching-machine"... granted, the suspension in that 318i is hard as nails... i dont know why the previous owner had put that "gewindefahrwerk" (coiover suspension) in a convertible for gods sake... its meant to cruise, not to do racetracks :-( (as soon as i find a cheap used orignal suspension that shit will
01:37 PM Loetmichel: be thrown out and replaced)
01:38 PM gregcnc: not adjustable?
01:39 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:39 PM roycroft: get her a comfy pillow, loetmichel
01:41 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i intend to get the original suspension back in there
01:41 PM Loetmichel: its not meant to be so hard
01:41 PM roycroft: sure
01:41 PM Loetmichel: i have seen other BMW E36 that had the spring domes punched thru
01:41 PM roycroft: but the comfy pillow will help while you're working on that
01:41 PM Loetmichel: by the springs/shocks
01:42 PM Loetmichel: because of stiff aftermarket suspension
01:42 PM gregcnc: they need reinforcement for serious racing
01:43 PM Loetmichel: of course they do
01:44 PM Loetmichel: but the previous ouwner cheaped out on the suspension itself.. its the cheapest crappy one on the market... he didnt invest in any reinforcement
01:46 PM Loetmichel: btw: i have to get back to the mechanic sometime... the radiator fan visco clutch seems to be locked. when you revv up above 2000rpm it sounds like a jumbo jet is launching ;)
01:46 PM gregcnc: just get rid of it
01:47 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: You should see it as an opportunity... Just add wings and you'll get the year 2000 flying car just 17 years late!
01:47 PM Loetmichel: hihi
01:48 PM FinboySlick: Better change that suspension before you try landing though.
01:48 PM Loetmichel: hrhr
02:10 PM sync: gregcnc: not even for srs racing
02:10 PM sync: seen a few e36 and e46 with the mounts ripped just from driving around
02:10 PM gregcnc: yeah people beat on them
02:11 PM Loetmichel: sync: me too
02:11 PM Loetmichel: thats why i want to replace that suspension with an original one as soon as possible
02:14 PM gregcnc: E46 had a recall for rear subframes in the US
02:18 PM sync: yeah
02:22 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, those MIG welders are pretty cool - seem like easy-mode and less hazardous than stick ones.
02:25 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: mig welders ARE the "Easy mode"
02:25 PM gregcnc: saw this recently https://youtu.be/2tpgc_pHRl4?t=47s https://youtu.be/czjYq527vkA
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: I am just watching the Mythbusters guy talking about welding a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA1jeViV4l8
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: Basically like a glue gun.
02:28 PM phipli: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f19/71537d1362531551-john-lang-lathe-picture-john-lang.jpg
02:28 PM phipli: now there's an awesome picture
02:28 PM sync: cool, with cvt
02:29 PM phipli: didn't spot that
02:29 PM phipli: does he also have some kind of quick change tool thing?
02:30 PM phipli: looks light there are 4 tools on the end of the boring tool
02:30 PM gregcnc: turret
02:30 PM _methods: JT-Shop: is this you
02:30 PM _methods: http://imgur.com/gallery/Nn65soL
02:30 PM phipli: but also the tool rotates? (as well as the turret
02:30 PM phipli: )
02:30 PM gregcnc: I think it's just a stick tool and the bolt that secures it
02:32 PM phipli: yeah, the top one does look like it is a hex now that I push my nose up against the screen
02:34 PM gregcnc: http://www.electricscotland.com/images/img1F.jpg
02:35 PM phipli: http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Asquith1/media/Spring%202010/LangVS01.jpg.html
02:35 PM phipli: the variable speed drive
02:36 PM gregcnc: check out that belt http://www.nms.ac.uk/explore/stories/science-and-technology/john-lang-lathe/
02:44 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: jamie is totally correct
02:44 PM Loetmichel: MIG welding IS like using a glue gun
02:44 PM phipli: :)
02:45 PM Loetmichel: phipli: i like the guy in the suit with tie working on the lathe
02:45 PM Loetmichel: :=)
02:46 PM Loetmichel: talk about "overdressed"
02:46 PM Loetmichel: :-)
02:47 PM phipli: Loetmichel, what do you expect
02:47 PM phipli: there was a camera man, and probably /his boss/ stood behind the camera
02:47 PM Loetmichel: blue collar attire?
02:47 PM phipli: back when a boss decided if you lived or died
02:48 PM Simonious: What does it mean when fusion 360 says, "Warning: One or more passes were discarded due to linking constraints."
02:49 PM Loetmichel: phipli: i regaulary wear tshirts at work that say "some days the best thing at work is that chair can rotate"... and we occasionally have customers wakling around ;)
02:49 PM Loetmichel: or this one: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16369&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:49 PM Simonious: One section of the cut gets dropped and I don't know why.
02:50 PM Simonious: Even if it is the only section I select.
02:50 PM Loetmichel: ... it says: "critizism acknowledged... starting Ignore drive... 75%"
02:51 PM Loetmichel: (this one got me a "medusa" type look from the boss the first time he saw it... but no comment ;)
02:51 PM phipli: heh
02:52 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: Maybe this is your case (2D adaptive and REST machining): https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-support-forum/linking-problems-with-2d-pocket-clearing/td-p/6099212
02:52 PM phipli: My German speaking girlfriend is upstairs and so I had to wait for your translation
02:53 PM LeelooMinai: "The French speaking one is in the kitchen, and Chinese speaking one is in the garage."
02:54 PM LeelooMinai: Is welding on a wooden deck a bad idea? :)
02:55 PM phipli: LeelooMinai, don't be silly. The rest are in the basement.
02:55 PM phipli: Do you /like/ the wooden deck?
02:55 PM jym: Loetmichel: As long as you pour gasoline on the deack first
02:55 PM phipli: How far away is the river?
02:55 PM jym: LeelooMinai: As long as you pour gasoline on the deck first
02:56 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: checking that out - this is a plasma cut contour on the line though
02:56 PM LeelooMinai: Heh, I cannot find a reasonable place to do my test welding in the house:/
02:57 PM JT-Shop: _methods: nope he didn't have a gun...
02:58 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: depends. If you want to retain a neat lookin deck: yes
02:58 PM Loetmichel: if you dont care aboput black dots on the deck: no problem
02:59 PM LeelooMinai: Right, ok, that settles it - my mom would kill me:)
02:59 PM kyle___: I have a spare split-phase 1.5hp motor wired for 120v, wat do?
03:00 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: get a few square feet of particle board to lay under your work area
03:00 PM Loetmichel: preferably some that is fire retardant
03:00 PM LeelooMinai: That MIG seems much nicer in that regard too - does not seem to create that much splatter.
03:00 PM Loetmichel: you will ALWAYS spray around some molten droplets of metal
03:01 PM LeelooMinai: Right
03:01 PM Loetmichel: or use that cheap plaster board thats used for walls and ceilings
03:01 PM Loetmichel: as a temporary floor
03:02 PM LeelooMinai: Drywall, I have some pieces.
03:03 PM phipli: kyle___, make a table ornament
03:04 PM kyle___: I already did that, but it's taking up too much of the damn table
03:05 PM kyle___: I was thinking about building a small, crappy lathe
03:06 PM kyle___: once I manage to melt some cast iron I should be well on my way to being able to do that
03:06 PM kyle___: has anyone here done that?
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: What is your intent.
03:09 PM SpeedEvil: Aluminium, or even concrete are reasonable alternatives in some cases
03:09 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: "some pieces" isnt enough
03:09 PM LeelooMinai: Didn't say they are small:)
03:09 PM Loetmichel: i would cover at least 10 foot around your welding place
03:09 PM kyle___: well, I have the bits for an arc furnace and I also happen to have lots of cast iron scrap
03:09 PM Loetmichel: the splatter has a tendency to jump everywhere
03:09 PM Loetmichel: and DONT use wet surfaces
03:10 PM Loetmichel: leidenfrost effect
03:10 PM kyle___: I was planning on building a Gingery lathe but I'm not sure about the rigidity
03:10 PM Loetmichel: you will find the ret hot steel drops running around like propelled from a gun on wet surfaces
03:10 PM Simonious: geez, I'm getting tired of videos that don't answer my questions. I'm nearly a total novice with fusion360 and I struggle to get it to do the simplest things.
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: Right, ok
03:11 PM Simonious: I've imported a DXF and now I literally can't get it to mirror a part on the 2D sketch, because I can't create a midpoint construction line.
03:11 PM kyle___: what part are you stuck on?
03:12 PM kyle___: you can click on lines to select them and convert to construction
03:12 PM kyle___: then you can hold shift and click the midpoint you want and add a coincident constraint
03:12 PM kyle___: (not sure if that's what you meant exactly)
03:12 PM Simonious: trying those ideas, will give feedback shortly
03:12 PM kyle___: best of luck
03:12 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: Well, construction lines or not, you can use m,idpoint constraint in sketch (looks like a triangle)
03:13 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: tried that, no joy
03:13 PM kyle___: right, that's probably a better idea
03:13 PM kyle___: try clicking the endpoint of your construction line
03:13 PM Simonious: so I've got the DXF imported, I'm looking at it
03:13 PM LeelooMinai: Just select some line and some point and then triangle and then you have that point glued to the lin's midpoint.
03:13 PM Simonious: I'm in 'model'
03:13 PM Simonious: and i'm selecting: create sketch ?
03:13 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: You have a sketch though?
03:14 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: I don't know how to tell
03:14 PM kyle___: check the timeline at the bottom of the viewport
03:14 PM Simonious: I've imported the DXF, I'm looking at it in 2D
03:14 PM kyle___: there should be a sketch icon to the left of it
03:14 PM Simonious: timeline? viewport?
03:14 PM kyle___: the viewport being the window you're looking at
03:14 PM kyle___: timeline being the horizontal list of icons in the bottom left
03:14 PM kyle___: not sure if fusion shows you this for imported dxfs though
03:14 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: You may need to project geometry from outside onto the sketch too - P for project will do it.
03:15 PM kyle___: yeah, if all else fails, make a new sketch and project
03:15 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: But, I would watch some videos on sketching from start to end.
03:15 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: so many videos, so few answers
03:15 PM kyle___: yeah, autodesk's own tutorial videos on sketching are good
03:15 PM kyle___: although they assume you have CAD experience
03:16 PM Simonious: I'm a ninjas in sketchup, I'm fair in solidworks, I'm fail in fusion360, I'm novice in openSCAD, I've used MOI a little and like it...
03:17 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: I would also check NYC CNC guy - search his videos for sketching; I remember he had few about it. He is not really an expert, but has some tips for beginners.
03:17 PM kyle___: ah, if you're alright in solidworks then you can adapt to fusion 360
03:17 PM Simonious: https://ibb.co/csbToF This is what I'm looking at
03:17 PM kyle___: they're similar, f360 just presents things a little differently
03:17 PM kyle___: ah
03:17 PM Simonious: you'll notice one small cutout is NOT mirrored.
03:18 PM Simonious: It WAS, but that part wasn't getting CAM, so I removed it thinking I would redraw it
03:18 PM Simonious: but I literally have failed to do that.
03:18 PM Simonious: I just want to mirror it across that part..
03:18 PM kyle___: right click the cutout you want on one of its lines and edit sketch
03:18 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, when moving among software like that, there will be always confusing things. I used SolidEdge a bit for example, and they do some things in the exact oposite way.
03:19 PM _methods: JT-Shop: hehe
03:19 PM kyle___: draw your construction line and constrain it
03:19 PM kyle___: then select all four lines of the original cutout by holding shift and clicking them
03:19 PM kyle___: then somewhere on the top ribbon bar there should be a dropdown that contains a mirror option
03:19 PM kyle___: lemme just open f360 actually
03:19 PM Simonious: I can find the mirror option, but I'm struggling to make the rest of your instructions line up with what I see.
03:20 PM kyle___: that's probably my fault
03:20 PM LeelooMinai: Are you even in edit sketch mode there...
03:20 PM Simonious: I don't know
03:20 PM kyle___: you're not
03:20 PM LeelooMinai: Does not seem to me - there should be pallete to the right.
03:20 PM kyle___: see the ribbon bar at the top?
03:20 PM Simonious: yes
03:20 PM kyle___: the rightmost option will say "stop sketch" when you're in sketch mode
03:21 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: Expand sketches on the left.
03:21 PM LeelooMinai: To see what you have there.
03:21 PM LeelooMinai: And if you have something there, there will be edit.
03:21 PM Simonious: okay, closer -> right click->edit sketch
03:21 PM kyle___: sorry for misleading with the timeline comment btw, you don't have one because you only have one item in it (the sketch)
03:22 PM kyle___: so once you're in sketch mode, you can draw that construction line
03:22 PM Simonious: Okay I'm in sketchmode, but using the midpoint tool literally mutilates the sketch rather than finding a segment midpoint
03:22 PM kyle___: try selecting them in the opposite order then
03:22 PM kyle___: actually, while you're using the line tool
03:23 PM kyle___: you should be able to hover over where the midpoint should be and it'll appear as a small box
03:23 PM LeelooMinai: Well, maybe you moves all sort of little pieces to one midpoint...
03:23 PM LeelooMinai: you moved*
03:23 PM LeelooMinai: You can only midpont point to middle of a line.
03:23 PM Simonious: .. line tool?
03:23 PM kyle___: the line tool is the second button in the ribbon
03:23 PM Simonious: okay, found that under sketch up top, not on the pallet
03:23 PM kyle___: directly above where it says "SKETCH"
03:23 PM Simonious: *pallete
03:24 PM Simonious: created the line, snapped to midpoint as hoped
03:24 PM kyle___: it's automatically constrained if you do it that way
03:24 PM Simonious: does not appear to be a construction line yet.
03:24 PM kyle___: yep
03:24 PM kyle___: so hit esc to exit the line tool
03:24 PM kyle___: then click your new line
03:24 PM LeelooMinai: Select the lin and press X for changing to construction
03:24 PM Simonious: that worked
03:24 PM kyle___: you can also use the first option in the palette if you forget the key
03:25 PM kyle___: now, select your cutout you want to mirror, then click the mirror option under the sketch dropdown in the ribbon bar
03:25 PM Simonious: and.. that didn't work
03:25 PM Simonious: everything grayed out
03:25 PM kyle___: okay, project first then
03:26 PM kyle___: (select the lines and hit the P key)
03:26 PM kyle___: that doesn't seem right though
03:27 PM kyle___: what's grayed out?
03:27 PM Simonious: https://ibb.co/fykUTF I'm here
03:27 PM kyle___: any ideas, LeelooMinai?
03:28 PM Simonious: guff, I appreciate the help so far gang.
03:28 PM LeelooMinai: I don't think mirror works in sketches:)
03:28 PM kyle___: it should
03:28 PM kyle___: there are two different mirror tools
03:28 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: as I understand your statement, that'd be stupid. :P
03:28 PM kyle___: yeah, there's one under sketch tools actually
03:28 PM Simonious: it's an absolutely trivial operation
03:28 PM kyle___: then there's one for mirroring features, which is separate
03:29 PM Simonious: ah ha, that may have worked.
03:29 PM kyle___: so my wild guess is that since it's an imported DXF it's all one sketch feature or something
03:29 PM kyle___: oh, you got it?
03:29 PM Simonious: yeah, the other mirror did it
03:29 PM Simonious: the one under sketch
03:29 PM kyle___: oh!
03:29 PM kyle___: that's why it was grayed out then
03:29 PM kyle___: trying to use feature mirror on a sketch
03:30 PM LeelooMinai: Right, ok, tried it - yes, mirror works.
03:30 PM LeelooMinai: "the other mirror" that is under sketch
03:30 PM Simonious: huh, redrew and SAME problem as before
03:30 PM kyle___: I apologize for my software engineer brethren
03:30 PM SpeedEvil: kyle___: also, there may be better, easier alternatives to cast sometimes.
03:30 PM SpeedEvil: turcite/... - for ways.
03:30 PM SpeedEvil: or saddles
03:30 PM kyle___: turcite? new to me, I'll read up on it
03:31 PM kyle___: ah, somewhat like delrin then
03:31 PM SpeedEvil: Bronze loaded PTFE
03:31 PM LeelooMinai: Blue color means unconstrained I believe - you should get all lines to be constrained.
03:31 PM kyle___: sounds interesting
03:31 PM SpeedEvil: reportedly better life than cast iron
03:31 PM Simonious: https://ibb.co/iP63oF it bails on the part mirrored..
03:31 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: What "same problem"?
03:31 PM Simonious: the cut out mirrored
03:32 PM Simonious: which is why I removed that cutout and mirrored it in the first place
03:32 PM kyle___: Simonious, you may need to select the profile when generating your CAM
03:32 PM kyle___: it's probably not included by default because it's not part of the same profile you imported from the DXF
03:32 PM Simonious: back to the original problem on cam generation, "Warning: One or more passes were discarded due to linking contraints"
03:32 PM Simonious: I selected everything
03:32 PM kyle___: oh
03:32 PM kyle___: beats me then
03:33 PM * Simonious thinks
03:33 PM Simonious: kyle___: the original DXF included that part and same fail
03:33 PM Simonious: I deleted it and redrew with the mirror
03:33 PM kyle___: I haven't used f360's CAM stuff yet
03:33 PM Simonious: so odd
03:33 PM Simonious: it's almost good
03:33 PM LeelooMinai: Linking constraints are for I thin yellow moves, between operations. So I would check the setup options - there is tab linkins somewhere.
03:33 PM kyle___: (still working on a new stm based controlboard for my laser cutter, heh)
03:34 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: so puzzling, everything else works and it's literally a mirror of a cutout that works both on the original DXF and now that I removed the fail and recreated it.
03:35 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: Imo you need to look into setup dialogs - to see that they operate on what you think they should on.
03:36 PM Simonious: reversing the tool direction worked.. and that is really stupid
03:36 PM Simonious: it's a plasma cutter
03:36 PM Simonious: and f360 knows that
03:37 PM LeelooMinai: I only used Mill mode so far.
03:38 PM kyle___: SpeedEvil, so that'd work for the ways, but what about the overall structure of the machine?
03:39 PM SpeedEvil: If using that for ways, you'd need extensive chip-guarding
03:39 PM kyle___: also, mcmaster sells rulon-142 but it's pretty expensive
03:39 PM kyle___: $139 for a 6"x6"x1/8" sheet
03:40 PM * Simonious grumbles
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: 1/8" is way thicker than you need
03:41 PM kyle___: can you link me to an example image of how this kind of way is built?
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: see above for saddle refur
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: b
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: Oh - I may not have linked.
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijf2MA4vi_0
03:43 PM SpeedEvil: This is taking an old saddle, milling it flat, and then sticking turcite on it, ready for scraping
03:43 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: lol, yes, it's only me on #fusion360 - I was disappointed too:)
03:43 PM kyle___: ah, cool, thanks
03:43 PM Simonious: so.. I don't have ANY post configs for F360, except one that I use for EMC2, where can I grab them?
03:44 PM Simonious: searching google now
03:44 PM Simonious: http://cam.autodesk.com/posts/ I think
03:44 PM kyle___: hm, still seems like it could be a good idea to build the structure of the machine out of cast iron but use turcite for the bearing surfaces like this guy is doing
03:46 PM kyle___: but avoiding cast iron is probably worth it; I don't have the tools to really make a reliably flat surface to bond the turcite to
03:47 PM SpeedEvil: kyle___: literally a belt sander and an angle grinder will get it flat enough
03:47 PM kyle___: so you're telling me I have an excuse to go out and buy a belt sander
03:47 PM SpeedEvil: you can do rough scraping quite adequately with an angle grinder and a reference surface.
03:47 PM kyle___: good enough for me
03:48 PM SpeedEvil: That is - flat enough to get it to a level where it's OK to epoxy on some flexible bearing material, without risk of the epoxy failing
03:48 PM kyle___: I should get a small surface plate, I have these giant granite countertop slabs that a hotel was throwing out
03:49 PM kyle___: but I have no idea if they're actually flat or just flat enough for a countertop
03:49 PM roycroft: do you have three of them?
03:49 PM kyle___: yep
03:49 PM roycroft: if so you can lap them with each other and make them as flat as you can measure
03:49 PM kyle___: but they're too heavy to lug around
03:49 PM SpeedEvil: kyle___: get swole
03:49 PM LeelooMinai: They are probably not flat for any precise purpose.
03:49 PM kyle___: 4'x2'
03:50 PM kyle___: hey, I'm working on it
03:50 PM kyle___: oh, and probably about a half inch thick
03:52 PM kyle___: eh, maybe I will try the three plate method, sounds more useful than lugging my ass up to a chin-up bar
03:57 PM phipli: http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-vote-for-froglet-1974/
03:58 PM phipli: To help with understanding of the election
03:59 PM roycroft: the polls close in a half hour
03:59 PM roycroft: first exit polls should be published then
04:00 PM phipli: win for monster raving loony?
04:03 PM roycroft: stupid website
04:03 PM roycroft: i tried connecting from a .uk vpn and it denied me, saying it's unavailable from the us
04:04 PM XXCoder: roycroft: I connected direct, no vpn from usa. works fine
04:04 PM JT-Shop: finally after 27 mouse clicks I find the report I want at paypal
04:04 PM XXCoder: it may be noscript thing
04:04 PM roycroft: i got denied from the us
04:04 PM roycroft: so i tried from.uk
04:05 PM roycroft: oh well
04:05 PM roycroft: as long as the bbc iplayer works in a half hour i'll be happy
04:05 PM XXCoder: ahh player says not for usa
04:05 PM XXCoder: I thought you meant website
04:11 PM roycroft: iplayer works fine
04:32 PM phipli: Exit poll predict that the tories will lose their majority
04:35 PM phipli: lolololol
04:35 PM phipli: serves them right for being cocky
04:40 PM roycroft: looks like a hung parliament is likely
04:40 PM phipli: again
04:41 PM phipli: Lab + SNP isn't enough to form a government though
04:41 PM phipli: so it will be interesting
04:41 PM phipli: very interesting
04:42 PM phipli: the Conservatives have already pissed off the Liberals and so there is unlikely to be any deals there
04:42 PM roycroft: labour + snp + plaid cymru + greens might be enough
04:42 PM phipli: heh
04:42 PM roycroft: ukip lost 100 of their seat :)
04:42 PM roycroft: 100%
04:42 PM phipli: heh
04:43 PM phipli: it might end up the "Everyone other than the Conservatives" government
04:43 PM roycroft: or may will try to form a minority government
04:43 PM roycroft: but she will fail utterly
04:44 PM phipli: possibly another election
04:44 PM phipli: 3rd in not many years
04:44 PM phipli: 3rd in 2? 3? years?
04:44 PM roycroft: although northern ireland might go along with may
04:44 PM roycroft: the democratic union are pro-brexit
04:45 PM Vitran: I installed a very important sign at the shop today http://i.imgur.com/ngwPYkR.jpg
04:47 PM Vitran: Sorry, back to the snap election, there is no news here about it
04:47 PM Vitran: how is it going?
04:47 PM roycroft: looks like the tories will lose their majority
04:48 PM Deejay: gn8
04:48 PM Vitran: When will the election be over? Voting is/was today no?
04:49 PM roycroft: voting just ended
04:51 PM roycroft: if it's a hung parliament it might be weeks before we know who will be the pm
04:51 PM roycroft: i don't think there will be another election
04:51 PM roycroft: brits are electioned out
04:51 PM roycroft: her majesty will demand that someone form a government
04:52 PM Vitran: Comey is dominating the news here, and I'm not even in the US.
04:52 PM roycroft: i ignored the comey stuff as much as i could
04:52 PM roycroft: and there was nothing earth-shattering in his testimony from what i've read
04:52 PM roycroft: the uk election is far more consequential than comey's senate appearance
04:53 PM Vitran: Meh. It is substantiated and that is about it. Not sure what the UK election will result in. It doesn't seem to have a potential good result
04:54 PM roycroft: i think if the exit polls hold up it will be a great result
04:54 PM roycroft: may needed to increase her tory majority to claim a firm mandate for her brexit strategy
04:54 PM roycroft: even maintaining the status quo is a loss for her
04:54 PM roycroft: and now it looks even worse than that
04:55 PM roycroft: worse being better in this case :)
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJVROcKFnBQ still holds up after nearly 40 years of reporting on elections
05:22 PM * JT-Shop puts on his sous-chef hat to get dinner ready to cook
05:22 PM roycroft: houghton and sunderland south look almost ready to report
05:32 PM roycroft: newcastle are declaring
05:32 PM * jym puts on the asbestso suit, grabs the fire extinguisher, and stand behind JT-Shop
05:42 PM JT-Shop: expecting a flame thrower from the back?
05:46 PM jym: JT-Shop: Nah, just two gallons of gasoline on the bbq, you know, to get it started ;)
05:47 PM jym: JT-Shop: although, safety fuse does a mighty fine job =)
05:47 PM JT-Shop: ah cooking honey siriacha wings http://gnipsel.com/recipes/chicken/honey-sriracha-wings.html
05:49 PM jym: JT-Shop: I took 1" of fuse, stuck a brink on it, lit it, and the SOB took off like a rocket 40ft across the yard. At that point I put ALL the fuse I had back in the magazine and it has not been opened since. That was a few years ago
05:49 PM jym: brick*
05:50 PM jym: JT-Shop: scared the fuck out of me. dried grass, old wooden fence, low hanging dead branches, etc.
05:51 PM jym: JT-Shop: bucket of water? WORTHLESS!
05:52 PM jym: firehose? WORTHLESS
05:52 PM jym: 50# of sand, okey that should work or at least help.
06:12 PM kyle___: hmm, so I have quite a few of these half-inch granite slabs
06:13 PM kyle___: is it plausible to make a decent surface plate by epoxying a few together up to 1.5" and then flattening with 3 plate?
06:27 PM Tom_itx: i doubt those tiles are as flat as a surface plate
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: kyle___: if the epoxy is used for leveling
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: I'd use epoxy with sand as a grout between slabs
06:30 PM kyle___: Tom_itx, they're not tiles, they're just big slabs
06:30 PM kyle___: I'm just wondering if it's actually worth the trouble to double it up
06:31 PM phipli: nn folks
06:31 PM kyle___: commercial granite surface plates always seem to be at least 2" thick
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: kyle___: you could also set some aluminum cylinders or blocks into the epoxy sand to use later for mounting linear bearings
06:32 PM kyle___: I'm not sure how that'd work, I was imagining sandwiching them; they're 2'x3'x0.5" slabs of granite
06:33 PM CaptHindsight: granite > epoxy sand > granite > epoxy sand > etc
06:33 PM Tom_itx: you'd want them parallel and i'm not sure how you would do that accurately
06:34 PM kyle___: does the top and bottom really need to be parallel though?
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: do they really have to be parallel?
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: if used as a surface plate the top just needs to be flat
06:34 PM Tom_itx: and level
06:34 PM kyle___: leveling could be done with shims underneath it later
06:34 PM kyle___: or I could epoxy on some screw-in feet
06:35 PM kyle___: going to need to level it separately anyway, nothing level in my garage
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: cardboard under the leg of the table :)
06:37 PM CaptHindsight: how flat are the 0.5" thick pieces?
06:37 PM kyle___: not sure yet
06:38 PM CaptHindsight: I cast using only epoxy and aggregates
06:38 PM kyle___: coworker made a table out of one of the large pieces we grabbed http://i.imgur.com/8TDbJsB.jpg
06:38 PM kyle___: hopefully that explains the scale a little btter
06:39 PM Tom_itx: what's it from?
06:39 PM Tom_itx: the granite...
06:39 PM kyle___: a hotel was renovating
06:39 PM Tom_itx: cool
06:39 PM kyle___: contractor couldn't be bothered with them, so they just set them out in the parking lot and invited craigslist over
06:40 PM kyle___: we filled his brother's truck, his VW jetta, and my SUV, heh
06:40 PM kyle___: and by filled, I mean we were weight-limited rather than volume-limited
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: really?! https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/its-been-so-windy-in-europe-that-electricity-prices-have-turned-negative
06:46 PM _methods: they need more coal!!!
06:46 PM malcom2073: But but but... they're gonna use up all the wind!
06:46 PM malcom2073: There wil lbe none left!
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: the weather will stop
06:47 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: makes me sick... all energy sources, except maybe nuclear fission, are "renewable", unless you take it in the stricter sense and say that no energy is renewable
06:49 PM _methods: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed
06:50 PM _methods: i just made that up
06:50 PM kyle___: any experience with these? https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00150011?fromRR=Y
06:50 PM _methods: kinda small
06:51 PM kyle___: my girlfriend says it's just fine :(
06:51 PM _methods: i buy surface plates at auctions so i don't have to pay for shipping
06:51 PM kyle___: apparently msc has free shipping deals from time to time
06:51 PM _methods: it's not the size of your surface plate.......
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: kyle___: I buy that size from Shars
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: sine they are local
06:53 PM kyle___: meh, at least these granite slabs will make good sanding plates
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.shars.com/grade-b-18-x-24-black-granite-surface-plate
06:54 PM kyle___: that's a much better price
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: I get hit with the sales tax
06:55 PM CaptHindsight: but I save on shipping
06:56 PM kyle___: how much do you think shipping that to california might be?
06:56 PM _methods: where are you in cali?
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: buy in cali
06:57 PM _methods: if you're in socal there are auctions all the time and you can probably find a good deal on craigslist
06:58 PM kyle___: bay area
06:59 PM kyle___: people here seem much less handy than I'm used to
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/G138178-5x3x4-Granite-Surface-Plate-/332193816704
07:00 PM kyle___: haha, no way, no room for that
07:01 PM _methods: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tld/6147515829.html
07:02 PM _methods: i'd talk them down on that $450
07:02 PM _methods: maybe $200
07:02 PM _methods: $450 is just silly
07:02 PM _methods: does come with a nice stand though lol
07:03 PM _methods: it is grade A though
07:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://modesto.craigslist.org/tls/6141382649.html
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/6153115347.html
07:13 PM _methods: http://www.aagauction.com/
07:14 PM _methods: auction on june 15th
07:14 PM _methods: in morgan hill
07:16 PM _methods: all kinds of good stuff
07:16 PM _methods: surface plates and leveling plates
07:43 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm
07:48 PM LeelooMinai: I am back from semi-amusing welding attempt in the basement bathroom.
07:57 PM kyle___: that's in san leandro too
07:58 PM kyle___: never had a good time in san leandro
07:58 PM LeelooMinai: I decided that I will start as they recommended in the videos - by "depositing" some beads, but somehow no one mentioned that it's probably not a good idea to use those welding magnets to hold the metal piece...
08:00 PM LeelooMinai: Because as soon as I put the electrode close it attached itself to the metal:)
08:00 PM kyle___: that sounds a lot like my welding attempts
08:00 PM kyle___: you're not stick welding though, are you?
08:01 PM LeelooMinai: Well, my thinking was that if they have those welding magnets, then the electtrodes are not magnetic, but I guess I was wrong:p
08:01 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, with tiny hobby-welder
08:01 PM kyle___: ah
08:01 PM kyle___: yeah I don't recommend welding right up next to the magnets anyway, you'll probably get them over their curie temperature and they won't be magnets anymore
08:02 PM LeelooMinai: Right, ok, but once I fixed that idea, I kind of got to the exciting point "look Ma! I am welding", and that's where the fuse blew:(
08:03 PM LeelooMinai: For some reason I thought that that little hobby weld AC box is 1.25kW or so, but it's 20A 110V.
08:04 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: even my small 80A inverter welder is rated 25A 230V...
08:05 PM LeelooMinai: So, I don't know now... I guess that was mixed experience. On the positive side the helmet worked great, there was almost no splatter, etc., but on the negative side now I am not sure if I can weld much if after 6 seconds of welding the fuse will blow:/
08:06 PM Loetmichel: but of cours eit overheats wayyy before the 16A fuse on that circuit can blow ;)
08:06 PM Loetmichel: hmmm
08:06 PM LeelooMinai: Well, that box of mine has thermal fuse, but the home fuse blew first.
08:06 PM Loetmichel: what fuse DOES your circuit have?
08:06 PM Loetmichel: 15A?
08:06 PM LeelooMinai: I kind of menaged to get one reasonable bead: http://i.imgur.com/nVEqWob.jpg
08:07 PM LeelooMinai: But the rest was me fighting with the magnetic eletrode.
08:07 PM Loetmichel: that doesent look shabby at all for a first timer
08:08 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I guess for the first time and an electrode that is magnetized, it's not bad, but now what...:)
08:08 PM Loetmichel: my first stick welds after 20 years looked way worse. granted, i made them with an 1.5mm electrode and 0,4mm cutter blades... (not a godd combination)
08:08 PM LeelooMinai: I mean the mains here in Canada are 100V and fused to 15A...
08:08 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9181&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:09 PM LeelooMinai: And it's too low even for this tiny 50A AC welder:(
08:09 PM Loetmichel: it shouldnt blow THAT fast
08:09 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Damn...
08:09 PM Loetmichel: iirc a 15A fuse should blow in about 50 seconds or so on 20A
08:09 PM LeelooMinai: No, it was 6 seconds of constant ARC
08:10 PM LeelooMinai: arc*
08:10 PM Loetmichel: maybe there was addditional load on that circuit?
08:10 PM LeelooMinai: Not really - I mean the ceiling bathroom ventilation was on, but that's all.
08:10 PM Loetmichel: strange
08:11 PM Loetmichel: was it a resettable fuse or a melting one?
08:11 PM LeelooMinai: Resettable
08:11 PM Loetmichel: maybe its aged?
08:11 PM Loetmichel: they usually age to the safe side, meaning they cant take as much current when getting old
08:12 PM LeelooMinai: O, I know why I thought it takes only 1kW - it's I think 24V 50A output, so I just calculated wattage from that, but forgot it's AC...
08:12 PM LeelooMinai: I heared that DC ones are better, but my is super simple transformer.
08:13 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm...
08:13 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: also its usually a REALLY bad efficiency with those big iron block transformers
08:13 PM LeelooMinai: On the other hand, in the basement there are those 220V outlets for dryers...
08:13 PM Loetmichel: because they regulate current by obening an air gap in the core
08:14 PM Loetmichel: has the transformer a 220V setting?
08:14 PM LeelooMinai: No, those 220V outlets have different plugs, etc. Probably would need different welder alltogether:(
08:15 PM LeelooMinai: What a bugger - "hobby" welder little box and eats 2kW
08:17 PM LeelooMinai: On the other hand, weird - since the were selling those for 110V, I would assume that they should work on normal mains outlets.
08:17 PM Loetmichel: they should
08:17 PM Tom_itx: rated for 20A yeah
08:17 PM Loetmichel: a few minutes a time
08:17 PM LeelooMinai: I think mine is the same as this one: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2250564-Lincoln-Electric-Hobby-Weld-Arc-Welder
08:18 PM LeelooMinai: Looks identical more or less.
08:18 PM Tom_itx: careful welding inside too. you could burn the house down
08:18 PM Loetmichel: if you read the small print on those resettable fuses they usually have a REALLY long blow time at only 18% overcurrent
08:18 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_itx: Right, that's why I used the bathroom - it's tiny, but it's all cermic tiles all around.
08:19 PM LeelooMinai: And no one uses that bathroom anyways as it's in the basement - I keep the compressor there:)
08:19 PM Loetmichel: so usually the fuse shouldnt blow before the core of the transformer trips the overheat switch
08:19 PM Loetmichel: i would assume that your fuses are aged and cant hold max current any more
08:19 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Right, maybe something is weird with the wiring or the socket or who knows what...
08:20 PM Loetmichel: again: how old are those fuses?
08:20 PM LeelooMinai: Like maybe contacts in the socket have too much resistance...
08:20 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Fuses are relatively new.
08:20 PM LeelooMinai: Since I replaced normal ones.
08:21 PM Loetmichel: in germany we electricians get taught that a 10 year old "sicherungsautomat" is supposed to fail at about 60% of initial currend
08:21 PM LeelooMinai: Next time I will try different outlet probably.
08:21 PM Loetmichel: -d+t
08:21 PM LeelooMinai: Rightk, sidhergumanuttomat, got it
08:21 PM Loetmichel: german for "resettable fuse"
08:21 PM kyle___: https://www.harborfreight.com/welding/arc-welders/amp-ac-120-volt-stick-welder-60768.html
08:22 PM kyle___: I picked this one up for $50
08:22 PM kyle___: to hold me over until I install a 220v outlet, anyway
08:22 PM Loetmichel: these: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3209&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (also some GFCIs in there)
08:22 PM LeelooMinai: I just remember something roycroft mentioned I think
08:22 PM kyle___: it can't really handle rods over 5/64" afaik, everything bigger just sticks immediately
08:23 PM LeelooMinai: "Duty cycle: 20% @ 70 amps" <- maybe I exceeded that?
08:23 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: no
08:23 PM kyle___: I kind of doubt it
08:23 PM Loetmichel: then the thermal switch would have tripped
08:23 PM kyle___: you'd have to be running it for a few minutes straight
08:23 PM LeelooMinai: well, what exactly do theu mean there?
08:23 PM kyle___: they mean that in a 10 minute interval you can run it for 2 minutes
08:23 PM Loetmichel: they mean that it will overhat after 12 minutes of continous welding
08:24 PM Loetmichel: and will have to cool down the rest of the hour
08:24 PM codepython7771: is anyone familiar with material property differences between alum and fiberglass in salt water? :)
08:24 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, ok, then I don't know. As to electrodes I have step down from 1/8, so, er... 3/16?
08:24 PM LeelooMinai: I think 3/16 6013
08:24 PM SpeedEvil: alum will promptly dissolve
08:24 PM Loetmichel: whats that in mm?
08:25 PM codepython7771: SpeedEvil: hi
08:25 PM LeelooMinai: 1/8 is 3.125mm I think
08:25 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: there are aluminium alloys that wont
08:25 PM codepython7771: carbon fiber vs fiberglass - how does that compare?
08:25 PM SpeedEvil: alum!=aluminium
08:25 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I must have messed up something there then.
08:26 PM LeelooMinai: 1/8 = 4/32, so I meant 3/32
08:26 PM Loetmichel: 3/16 is bigger. so it needs MORE amps
08:26 PM Loetmichel: ah
08:26 PM Loetmichel: yes, that looks more reasonable ;)
08:26 PM LeelooMinai: 2.4mm or so
08:26 PM codepython7771: SpeedEvil: what are you upto these days? Any interesting projects?
08:26 PM Loetmichel: 2.4 still wants to see more than 80A to weld properly
08:27 PM Loetmichel: can you get 1/16 maybe?
08:27 PM SpeedEvil: no
08:27 PM LeelooMinai: But again, if that harbor freight is 70watt, and mine 50, something is wrong if it blows the fuse:(
08:27 PM Loetmichel: or something like that?
08:27 PM codepython7771: I'm thinking of making myself a small boat :)
08:27 PM codepython7771: hence the fiberglass/carbon fiber questions
08:27 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Well, I could get the weld ok I think... I mean for first time it worked better than I would expect, until the fuse blew that is.
08:28 PM Loetmichel: codepython7771: both have a problem in water.
08:28 PM codepython7771: Loetmichel: I thought fiberglass was used to build boats?
08:28 PM Loetmichel: any fiber lamianted stuff tends to delaminate if you have a point where water can enter the "grain".
08:28 PM LeelooMinai: So, I think those electrodes are ok as to the thickness - not sure if thinner one would change anything though - smaller arc would cause less power usage?
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: what are you trying to achieve?
08:28 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: a small boat design
08:29 PM codepython7771: for ocean
08:29 PM Loetmichel: if you use fibre glass or carbon be REALLY sure taht the gelcoat on the outside and paint on the inside is flawless
08:29 PM SpeedEvil: codepython7771: I suggest a hollow log
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: carbon fiber needs a binder
08:29 PM Loetmichel: it is
08:29 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: you can use carbon carbon composite
08:29 PM codepython7771: SpeedEvil: pvc pipes are probably better than hollow logs?
08:29 PM Loetmichel: used to build boats
08:29 PM Loetmichel: carefully
08:29 PM LeelooMinai: What are hollow logs? :)
08:29 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: In principle, I'd love to see a carbon carbon composite canoo, it should only be a few tens of millions.
08:29 PM LeelooMinai: Canoe? :p
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: does the boat need to float?
08:30 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: if thinner you can dial down the current
08:30 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: yes, please :) Not a submarine
08:30 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: What do you mean "dial down" - there's no dial on the welder:)
08:30 PM Loetmichel: so the main fuse will not blow that easily. but on the other hand: HAS your welder a big knob to do that?
08:30 PM SpeedEvil: codepython7771: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C22Crc7XHoI
08:30 PM LeelooMinai: This thing is dumb as a rock - transformer + thermal fuse.
08:31 PM LeelooMinai: I looked inside.
08:31 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: do you have a pic again?
08:31 PM LeelooMinai: It's same as this: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2250564-Lincoln-Electric-Hobby-Weld-Arc-Welder
08:32 PM LeelooMinai: It has on/off switch:)
08:32 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: that guy is cool. i watched the whole series on the skiff. but i dont thing wood is the way to go if you never worked with it on a boat ;)
08:32 PM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: probably not
08:32 PM LeelooMinai: Man, now that I watched the Wolrus guy from Mythbusters talking about that MIG welder, I want one:(
08:32 PM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: nice reliable 1" thick steel plate, with a stick welder.
08:33 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: mig welders are great
08:33 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if they make "baby MIGs"
08:33 PM Loetmichel: especially for beginners
08:33 PM Loetmichel: they do
08:33 PM Loetmichel: not that cheap tho
08:33 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: the 'baby migs' almost are the really, really expensive ones
08:34 PM SpeedEvil: Trying to learn with crappy equipment adds a whole layer of fun
08:34 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it was kind of fun at some point - got excited with the bead and how well the helmet worked, and boom, fuse gone, no more fun.
08:35 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ I recommend / http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ / https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks
08:35 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: tahts the cheapest i find here on the double: http://www.ebay.de/itm/MIG-MAG-SCHUTZGAS-SCHWEIsGERAT-40-140-AMPERE-SCHWEISSGERAT-/401050712459
08:35 PM Loetmichel: you probably need one for 110V ;)
08:35 PM LeelooMinai: Also, I was surprised how quickly the stick was eaten - I think half of it was gone.
08:35 PM Loetmichel: and you'll need a wire drum and a argon/corgon bottle
08:36 PM Loetmichel: in six seconds?
08:36 PM Loetmichel: THATS NOT NORMAL
08:36 PM codepython7771: I'd like to experiment with a non-wooden boat :)
08:36 PM Loetmichel: it should last about a minute or so on full current
08:36 PM codepython7771: Something light
08:36 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: The MB guy said he often just MIGs without gas even (with some wire coated with thin flux)
08:37 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: not coated. the flux is inside the wire
08:37 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, well, still, the gas is argon + CO2? That does not sound dangerous, so I have no problem with it.
08:37 PM Loetmichel: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Gude-SG-120-A-Fulldraht-Schweisgerat-Schaltstufen-45-90-A-Frequenz-230-V-50-HZ-/321831485501
08:37 PM codepython7771: SpeedEvil: I've an electronics question for you, can I pm you ? :)
08:37 PM Loetmichel: like this?
08:38 PM LeelooMinai: Furburgen-Shwartzbergat Shaltustufen, right... ok
08:38 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: I could as well try to read egiptian:)
08:39 PM Loetmichel: "fülldraht" means "fill(ed)wire"
08:39 PM Loetmichel: sorry, dont have an english one
08:39 PM Loetmichel: dont know the english word for that kind of welder
08:40 PM LeelooMinai: Well, maybe, or maybe it had flux on top, I have no idea, but problaby same effect. I think he mentioned that you can use it with gas shield too - you have double shielding then.
08:40 PM LeelooMinai: Or it was some other video, now forgot.
08:40 PM Loetmichel: yes, you can
08:40 PM Loetmichel: or you can buy a welder that can operate both modes
08:40 PM Loetmichel: with gas and normal wire or without gas and filled wire
08:41 PM LeelooMinai: I liked how with MIG and gas there's almost no splatter - or at least I did not see anything - it was like forming pools of molten metal.
08:41 PM Loetmichel: yes, it is
08:41 PM LeelooMinai: Pretty cool
08:41 PM LeelooMinai: The stick in comparison seems a bit barbarian:)
08:41 PM Loetmichel: the gasless MIG is a little less splatterfree
08:42 PM Loetmichel: ... and you need tha hammer again. the flux forms a glassy coating on the weld
08:42 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I have little hammer thing, have the steel brush, etc. - I was prepared:)
08:43 PM Loetmichel: on the other side: if you can stick weld MIG will look like childs play
08:43 PM Loetmichel: so maybe its not that bad to learn it
08:43 PM Loetmichel: its good for bigger welds as well
08:44 PM Loetmichel: the small MIG welders can only do up to 1/4" steel or so
08:44 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, maybe I will research a bit if I can somehow get something that can plug into that 220V socket.
08:44 PM SpeedEvil: Also, you can paint round the weld with PAM or something so spatter doesn't stick
08:44 PM Loetmichel: (they can do bigger but the penetration of the weld will not be good)
08:45 PM Loetmichel: whats PAM?
08:45 PM LeelooMinai: 1/4 steel is the most I use anyways - all the angles on my CNC frame are 1/4
08:45 PM LeelooMinai: Pulverized American Moose
08:45 PM Loetmichel: ?
08:46 PM LeelooMinai: That's what Indians used for welding since ages
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: http://gizmodo.com/americas-largest-carbon-fiber-ship-is-a-seafaring-spee-1468513351
08:46 PM Loetmichel: what did i do to earn that mocking?
08:46 PM LeelooMinai: lol
08:47 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: Nice :)
08:47 PM codepython7771: how do we build it cheap ? ;)
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: whats your budget?
08:47 PM LeelooMinai: Well, how abut this yacht? :) http://www.superyachttimes.com/default/cache/file/D1214B99-7B59-4812-BDCBFC6B1F6A84F5.jpg
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-3K-200gsm-Real-Carbon-Fiber-Cloth-High-Quality-Carbon-Fabric-twill-20-width-/201426231568
08:48 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: for my boat - 5kusd
08:49 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: It's trolling, not "mocking":)
08:50 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: does that last in salt water?
08:50 PM LeelooMinai: Some of those private expensive yachts are crazy.... That's what happens when one has so much money, they don't even know how to spend it all...
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: the binders used are the same as for fiberglass
08:50 PM LeelooMinai: codepython7771: You can use it only on rivers:)
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: epoxy and even cheaper polyesters
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.iccm-central.org/Proceedings/ICCM18proceedings/data/2.%20Oral%20Presentation/Aug25%28Thursday%29/Th37%20ONR%20SESSIONS%20-%20Research%20in%20Composites%20Materials%20and%20Sandwich%20Structures%28S.O.%20Yapa%20D.%20S.%20Raj/Th37-3-AF1538.pdf
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.montana.edu/composites/documents/AIAA%202012%201575%20performance%20in%20salt%20water.pdf
08:52 PM * LeelooMinai jumps directly to the Conclusion
08:52 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: so carbon fiber is not the right material then?
08:53 PM LeelooMinai: I read it that it's fine, unless it isn't:)
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: it's stronger and lighter than fiberglass but it is far mosre costly
08:53 PM Loetmichel: codepython7771: its insanely expensive
08:54 PM Loetmichel: glass is up to the task. so why use something that isnt better for the job but about 10 times as expensive?
08:54 PM codepython7771: The CF pipes are not that expensive for building a floating system?
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: fiberglass and resin in more within your budget
08:57 PM Loetmichel: also carbon fibre tends to be "brittle"
08:57 PM Loetmichel: it doesent take repeated overloads well
08:57 PM LeelooMinai: codepython7771: Go all the way imo - use carbon nanofiber:)
08:57 PM Loetmichel: glass is better in that regard even IF it is about half as strong by square section
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: thats why ideally you want to stay out of the water
08:57 PM codepython7771: fiberglass is heavy - otherwise its good
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: something breaks you sink and drown
08:57 PM Loetmichel: codepython7771: exactly
08:57 PM Loetmichel: and cheap
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: if you build a CF chair the worst is you fall down and break a hip
08:57 PM SpeedEvil: CF is useful where you can precisely and carefully design a structrue for expected load and minimal weight.
08:57 PM LeelooMinai: No, the worst is it will break with sharp edge and you get impaled and die in horrible pain.
08:57 PM SpeedEvil: Fibreglass is where you want to be, unless you care that your boat is 100kg heavier.
08:58 PM codepython7771: SpeedEvil: maybe I should mix CF with Fiberglass
08:58 PM SpeedEvil: The design is _much_ simpler if you have a large overload capability.
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: how far do you plan to cruise on the water? 1km, 10km, 1000km?
08:58 PM Loetmichel: codepython7771: i would use glass with some aramid fibres mixed in
08:58 PM LeelooMinai: Metals, like steel are nice because before they break, they will deform, but usually not shatter into pieces.
08:58 PM Loetmichel: not carbon
08:58 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: 100km
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: the best boat to have is always someone elses boat
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: so they have to clean and store it
09:00 PM Loetmichel: is aramid correct? what is the stuff in bulletproof vests called in english?
09:00 PM LeelooMinai: The best boat is no boat imo - just stay home, like me:p
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: I'd say buy a used boat and enjoy the water
09:00 PM Crom: Kelvar
09:00 PM Loetmichel: yes
09:00 PM LeelooMinai: Kevlar
09:00 PM Loetmichel: that stuff
09:00 PM Loetmichel: you can get glass mats with a few% kevlar strands mixed in
09:00 PM LeelooMinai: It's also used in ropes for climbing, and things like that.
09:01 PM Loetmichel: MUCH better for stuff that may see structual overloads from time to time
09:01 PM LeelooMinai: I always wanted kevlar sox:)
09:01 PM LeelooMinai: socks
09:01 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/cost-of-carbon-vs-fiberglas.30916/
09:01 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: spend some time there vs asking a room full of drunks
09:01 PM LeelooMinai: I don't drink - I am that way naturally:p
09:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12085
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4eNFAJIeHI
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: Carbon vs Kevlar vs Fiberglass in 30 Seconds!
09:04 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, so Kevlar has not so great compressive strength - whatever it means.
09:05 PM LeelooMinai: So when you compress it then what...
09:05 PM LeelooMinai: It gets "plastic"?
09:07 PM Loetmichel: if you mix in kevlar with glas its not there for the abrasion resistance ot strenght
09:08 PM Loetmichel: it will provide a "soft fail" mode.
09:08 PM Loetmichel: pure glass fibre boards tend to "shatter" if overloaded
09:08 PM codepython7771: I wish they had done a 60 second per material ;0
09:09 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I know Kevlar has good "ductility" - probably that's why they make ropes from it, but I am not sure what compression strength involves.
09:09 PM Loetmichel: mix some 10% kevlar in the weave and you get a more "sheet steel" behaviour when overloaded. it bends but doesen break in pieces
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: codepython7771: watch the longer video
09:10 PM LeelooMinai: I mean when you squash Kevlar cube then what - it shatters, fractures, becomes flat? :)
09:10 PM codepython7771: so i should be mixing CF with fiberglass - perhaps a CF with fiberglass clothing - but that does not sound like a boat
09:10 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: the cube will "flow"
09:10 PM codepython7771: CaptHindsight: Looking at the longer video - thanks
09:11 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that was my first guess, oh well, weird then - it's stron at being stretched but weak at compression.
09:11 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if cement + kevlar would be good then...
09:12 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: no
09:12 PM LeelooMinai: No, fail, cement/concrete is reverse right?
09:12 PM LeelooMinai: Good at compression, bad at stretching?
09:12 PM Loetmichel: kevlar hase an insanely high elnongation before it finally breaks
09:12 PM Loetmichel: but it isnt THAT strong at all
09:12 PM LeelooMinai: Er, it must be strong...
09:13 PM Loetmichel: there is a fiberglass reinforced conxcrete mix on the market tho
09:13 PM Loetmichel: it is STRONG, but in comprasion to carbon or glass its not
09:13 PM Loetmichel: if you get the gist
09:14 PM Loetmichel: kevlar is very good at "failing slowly"
09:14 PM Loetmichel: thats its advantage
09:14 PM LeelooMinai: Right, just wonder if you took 1mm diameter "piano wire" and 1mm kevlar one how they would compare at being stretched.
09:14 PM LeelooMinai: So I guess spring-steel vs kevlar
09:15 PM Loetmichel: the piano wire will likely move about 10% of its lenght before breaking, at which force the kevlaer wire will already be 4 times as long as before. but still holding
09:15 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, that brutal...
09:15 PM Loetmichel: (values totally out of my ass, but somewhere in that ballpark)
09:16 PM LeelooMinai: A, ok, sounded a bit strange:)
09:16 PM LeelooMinai: Seems when you compare wieght/strength ratio, Kevlar is 5 times better
09:17 PM Loetmichel: thats becaause while its about as strong ist very lightweight
09:17 PM Vitran: From my work with Kevlar, Kevlar sucks at spreading load. A kevlar cable will have the shortest thread snap, then the next. This makes the cable decay with time. Steel is great at stretching and sharing the load
09:18 PM LeelooMinai: 1.4 vs 7.8 density
09:18 PM Loetmichel: Vitran. that sounds more like carbon
09:18 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, so that 5.6
09:18 PM codepython7771: so E-Glass ?
09:20 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: Well, but I guess woudln't it depend on whether you deal with solid Kevlar or some kind of "weave" - I think if you weave intricate layered structure, it could be pretty good at spreading load.
09:21 PM codepython7771: kevlar - keep away?
09:21 PM LeelooMinai: codepython7771: No! Make ropes for your boat from it:)
09:23 PM Vitran: Kevlar doesn't float, damaged by UV, and absorbs moisture. Careful about that
09:25 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, so how come it's used in ropes for climbing...
09:26 PM Vitran: light and strong! But also has a lifetime.
09:26 PM LeelooMinai: "The fiber is used in woven rope and in cable, where the fibers are kept parallel within a polyethylene sleeve. The cables have been used in suspension bridges such as the bridge at Aberfeldy in Scotland."
09:27 PM Vitran: It also has very low springiness for when you fall you don't go catapulting back upwards.
09:27 PM LeelooMinai: They are also used in mooring lines
09:27 PM Vitran: That is important in parachuting
09:28 PM LeelooMinai: Seems it's pretty good at being heat/fire resistant - they use it in break pads instead of asbestos.
09:28 PM LeelooMinai: In a "chopped" fiber form.
09:29 PM LeelooMinai: And in frying pans instead of teflon.
09:47 PM kyle____: hi guys
09:47 PM kyle____: I lied, my granite slabs are closer to an inch thick
09:48 PM LeelooMinai: Plates are usually 3 inches at least.
09:48 PM LeelooMinai: I have a $40 baby plate - 9x12 and even it is 3 inches
09:49 PM kyle____: so once I lap one into flatness, I just epoxy it to the other two
09:49 PM kyle____: problem solved!
09:50 PM LeelooMinai: Wow: http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-mig-and-flux-welder-0588195p.html#srp
09:52 PM LeelooMinai: MIG welder for $200 CAD?
09:53 PM roycroft: so you'll be lapping both sides of the top and middle one? :)
10:01 PM SpeedEvil: you can properly support a much thinner plate
10:01 PM SpeedEvil: it is more challenging
10:01 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.loptics.com/articles/mirrorsupport/supportpic6.jpg something like this
10:02 PM SpeedEvil: A support designed to actively equalise the weight on each support
10:02 PM LeelooMinai: Looks more expensive than the plate itself:)
10:03 PM enleth: Dale Derry made something like that, but somewhat simpler, and posted it on YT recently
10:03 PM kyle____: well, roycroft, epoxy is space filling
10:03 PM enleth: four contact points, but two of them on a shared pivoting arm
10:03 PM kyle____: so the middle one doesn't need to be flat
10:05 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: yes, but you can in principle make it out of very cheap stuff, the magic isn't in the materials
10:05 PM enleth: https://youtu.be/N9H_orEXKzI?t=11m49s - around here
10:05 PM LeelooMinai: Well, ok, still - seems pretty complex
10:05 PM LeelooMinai: So I would just buy the 3 inch plate instead:)
10:06 PM enleth: still, Dale's plate *is* quite thick
10:06 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: yes, but it may actually be easier and cheaper than moving around a 3" thick 2'*4' plate.
10:06 PM kyle____: don't worry, I'm probably just going to buy a proper surface plate anyway
10:06 PM SpeedEvil: First step would be to work out the sag under its weight.
10:06 PM LeelooMinai: Er... 2 by 4 feet plate?
10:06 PM enleth: damn, judging from the vide, his plate might be 4"-5"
10:07 PM enleth: *video
10:07 PM enleth: if not more, hard to tell
10:07 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: I was referrin to kyle___'s existing 1" thick plates
10:08 PM LeelooMinai: I think 2 by 4 feet plate would squash that contraption into flat piece of steel:p
10:08 PM SpeedEvil: http://mdpub.com/scopeworks/hexagons/
10:08 PM SpeedEvil: is neat
10:14 PM SpeedEvil: Hmm - fun fact. Granite sags about as much as wood.
10:15 PM SpeedEvil: (of a similar dimension, similarly supported, under own weight)
10:15 PM LeelooMinai: Probably that's why those plates are so thick:)
10:16 PM Vitran: odd. I was reading about granite today http://cadem.com/cncetc/epoxy-granite-beds-in-cnc-machines/
10:16 PM Vitran: or about how to make a granite-epoxy slab
10:18 PM SpeedEvil: Naively, if you need a four point mount for a 3" thick slab, you need (for the same accuracy) a nine point mount for 1"
10:18 PM SpeedEvil: I am not doing the calculations properly
10:18 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I was researching this kind of craziness like 2-3 years ago, but could not find any reasonable epoxy source and abandoned it.
10:19 PM * LeelooMinai still stares at that MIG welder
10:20 PM LeelooMinai: I think resistance is futile:(
10:20 PM kyle____: resistance is necessary
10:20 PM kyle____: otherwise it won't get hot!
10:21 PM kyle____: jokes aside, how the hell do I make my air compressor quieter
10:21 PM LeelooMinai: kyle____: By following what I did:)
10:21 PM kyle____: what did you do?
10:21 PM SpeedEvil: kyle___: Enclose it in a rigid box, with noise attenuation and shock mounts.
10:22 PM SpeedEvil: Rigid massy box
10:22 PM kyle____: yeah...
10:22 PM SpeedEvil: Or buy a new compressor.
10:22 PM kyle____: but I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas!
10:23 PM LeelooMinai: I put tubes in walls, two for lots of cables to my PCs in the basement, and one has 100 feet air hose inside. So, compressor is in the basement, I am in my room, + I have RF remote to turn the compressor on and "Look Ma! No noise":)
10:23 PM kyle____: lol, nice
10:23 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3857926150/in/album-72157622145576638/ - this was a generator housing.
10:23 PM SpeedEvil: It worked very, very well, it would work well for a compressor too
10:24 PM kyle____: ah, what material is that?
10:24 PM SpeedEvil: This is two U shapped channels, formed of concrete tile
10:24 PM SpeedEvil: with a larger concrete tile underneath and on top, siliconed to remove the gaps
10:24 PM SpeedEvil: I was going to add noise absorbant material inside
10:25 PM SpeedEvil: But it was quite quiet enough till the generator ran out of oil in half an hour.
10:25 PM kyle____: pretty cool
10:26 PM kyle____: I have just the spot for such a thing too
10:26 PM LeelooMinai: "Under the bed"
10:26 PM kyle____: hah, if only I could get rid of the landlord's old garage refrigerator
10:26 PM kyle____: so much space wasted
10:27 PM LeelooMinai: I think the worst have Japanese in big cities - imagine them and their microscoping rooms...
10:27 PM LeelooMinai: But at least they have fiber internet:)
10:27 PM kyle____: yeah, it feels bad enough in the bay area
10:27 PM kyle____: we have fiber too but you have to sell your firstborn
11:18 PM kyle____: damn it
11:18 PM kyle____: amazon has 12 minutes to deliver my carbon rods or my same-day shipping guarantee is broken :'(
11:46 PM SpeedEvil: kyle___: did they arrive?
11:50 PM * LeelooMinai imagines kyle laying on the floor with a carbon arrow in his back.