#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 05 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:20 AM gregcnc_ is now known as gregcnc
02:25 AM Deejay: moin
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
02:27 AM Deejay: hi ich
02:27 AM XXCoder: hey
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: Deejay: wie ist das wetter da oben hier wird es sonning
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: Hi X
02:28 AM Deejay: sunshine, 13° C
02:28 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: i got one of the 12 crap mashines here that we tryed to get running frieday
02:28 AM IchGucksLive: Deejay: lucky
02:28 AM Deejay: need rain :/
02:29 AM XXCoder: nie
02:29 AM XXCoder: 11 to go heh
02:29 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: i modyfied the osc from 90us to 30 on the 6560 so now its near quiet at the classroom
02:30 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: 4 got done at frieday
02:30 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: and 3 studens came with only parts
02:30 AM XXCoder: geez
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: one student thought he coudt pick ourt one of the given drawings and make it
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: he also did only one part not the 4 pices count on the drawings
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: Bad english this morning
02:32 AM Deejay: bad english every day :/
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: agrees
02:33 AM XXCoder: so guy couldnt build machine since 3 parts is missing?
02:33 AM IchGucksLive: its early im old
02:33 AM IchGucksLive: but i did already shake the tomatos this morning
02:33 AM IchGucksLive: the green house is full of
02:34 AM Deejay: nice
02:34 AM Deejay: but beware, not shake them too much or you will have ketchup
02:34 AM IchGucksLive: thats why we do it
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off
05:25 AM jthornton-: morning
06:17 AM jthornton- is now known as jthornton\
06:33 AM jthornton\ is now known as jthornton
06:53 AM Longbow: How do jo JOG under halcmd? Using HALUI or motion?
07:17 AM * miss0r just got a guns'n roses ticket in fathers day gift ! :D
07:54 AM nubcake: Hi
07:55 AM cradek: Longbow: you can pretend to be jog buttons with halui, or a wheel with motion
08:18 AM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
08:21 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/halui.html
08:22 AM IchGucksLive: there are all halui pins listed
08:25 AM IchGucksLive: till later
08:28 AM TurBoss: yay 2.79 is out
08:30 AM Longbow: I tried to jog using counts but it will not move
08:30 AM Longbow: halcmd setp joint.3.jog-scale 10 halcmd setp joint.3.jog-enable true halcmd setp joint.3.jog-counts 1
08:31 AM Longbow: if I change jog-counts it should move for the jog-scale?
08:31 AM Longbow: it wont.
08:31 AM Longbow: Using motion position command I get a response like: "signal already has a writer"
08:31 AM Longbow: so I cannot change it hmm
08:31 AM Longbow: It is for a servomotor on a turret arm
08:32 AM Longbow: before I start to writea custom component I would like to see the axis moving manually :)
08:34 AM Longbow: is there a diagram on how to move a servo motor with halcmd? Which command sequence to follow?
08:46 AM cradek: are you out of estop, machine on, and in manual mode? you must be for jogging
08:47 AM cradek: and if you want to set a pin manually, you must have it unconnected
09:38 AM gregcnc: $100 lathe? https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/6162394472.html
09:44 AM thomasvansteenki: Hi machinists!
09:44 AM thomasvansteenki: We are looking to make a machine using steppers numerically controlled, 3 axis.
09:45 AM thomasvansteenki: It's not a milling machine or 3d printer, something else.
09:45 AM SpeedEvil: Are you hoping to tickle someone using a 3 axis controlled feather?
09:45 AM thomasvansteenki: What would be the best most precise powerful controller for this?
09:45 AM thomasvansteenki: Yes!
09:45 AM thomasvansteenki: :D
09:46 AM thomasvansteenki: it's some extrusion thingy
09:46 AM SpeedEvil: gregcnc: damn good at that price, as long as they're not organ harvesters.
09:46 AM roycroft: superlatives generally do not apply to the real world
09:46 AM SpeedEvil: you mean reprap?
09:46 AM SpeedEvil: thomasvansteenki: what do you mean by that in numbers.
09:46 AM SpeedEvil: You can get precision down to ~10nm or so.
09:46 AM SpeedEvil: It is not especially cheap
09:47 AM thomasvansteenki: i suppose 0.005 precision would be ok
09:47 AM thomasvansteenki: the range is smal for XY, not for Z
09:47 AM thomasvansteenki: small*
09:47 AM thomasvansteenki: (but Z would be slow)
09:48 AM thomasvansteenki: We are currently using a heidenhain cnc milling machine,
09:48 AM thomasvansteenki: so gcode is kinda new to me
09:48 AM SpeedEvil: 0.005 kilometers?
09:48 AM thomasvansteenki: mm
09:49 AM thomasvansteenki: to utimately achieve 0.01.. 0.02 precision
09:49 AM SpeedEvil: What are you actually trying to do with this.
09:49 AM thomasvansteenki: bending
09:49 AM SpeedEvil: Over what volume are you trying to maintain that precision, with what forces.
09:50 AM thomasvansteenki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot0Cxmk2aa4
09:50 AM SpeedEvil: (forces at the tool-mount)
09:50 AM gregcnc: the controller mainly comes into play at high code processing speeds
09:50 AM SpeedEvil: Ah.
09:50 AM gregcnc: precision is mainly about how the machine is built
09:50 AM thomasvansteenki: we are going to do a cheap experiment with arduino + cheap steppers
09:50 AM SpeedEvil: The above is likely to need over 5kW or so drives.
09:51 AM thomasvansteenki: i'd need to open an engineering book :D
09:51 AM SpeedEvil: And will probably cost well over $5K or so even for a small scale experiment, that does it badly
09:51 AM thomasvansteenki: not a problem ^^
09:51 AM SpeedEvil: The forces involved in pipe bending are _high_
09:51 AM thomasvansteenki: indeed
09:52 AM SpeedEvil: you almost certainly don't want to use steppers
09:52 AM thomasvansteenki: but they are small if you bend mm by mm
09:52 AM thomasvansteenki: (and the main force comes from the tube-pusher i think)
09:53 AM thomasvansteenki: So, any recommendations, google search terms, books.. to find powerful steppers and controllers?
09:53 AM thomasvansteenki: arduino isn't going to cut it
09:55 AM thomasvansteenki: maybe even hydraulics? numerically controled?
09:55 AM gregcnc: what si the real problem with accomplishing this?
09:56 AM thomasvansteenki: programming and the bearing
09:56 AM thomasvansteenki: ^^
09:57 AM thomasvansteenki: it's not possible to hand-code the g-code i'd say
09:57 AM gregcnc: right, so mechanics and control are not really an issue, Linuxcnc will drive the servos if you have a program
09:58 AM thomasvansteenki: how does linux-cnc stack up against an arduino grbl?
09:58 AM thomasvansteenki: except for the nicer interface and such
09:59 AM thomasvansteenki: my dad was talking about a BAUD rate
09:59 AM thomasvansteenki: wich he didn't like from arduino
09:59 AM SpeedEvil: Arduino based stuff is enormously less flexible and capable
10:00 AM SpeedEvil: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rigid_Tapping - sort of related to precise pipe bending
10:05 AM thomasvansteenki: tapping? :O
10:05 AM thomasvansteenki: ah yes rigid tapping, we tried that and always broke the tap :(
10:06 AM thomasvansteenki: ok, so i'll look a bit into linux cnc (thought we only need xyz linear movement, no canned cycles and such)
10:06 AM SpeedEvil: you need to respond to the pipe speed, unless it is precisely constant
10:07 AM sync: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3Zm-mAvwL4 hmm, the geometry is interesting
10:07 AM thomasvansteenki: aaah you mean change the tube-pusher to a spindle?
10:08 AM thomasvansteenki: sync, that removes the need for a bearing :)
10:08 AM sync: the tricky part will be the translation stage and the second swivel
10:09 AM SpeedEvil: No, I mean that you have to precisely coordinate the bender with the actual tube position.
10:09 AM SpeedEvil: Like you do in rigid tapping, if you want it very precise
10:09 AM thomasvansteenki: ah ic
10:09 AM jym: SpeedEvil: Like when bending conduit, accounting for strentch, etc?
10:10 AM SpeedEvil: I mean if the push speed varies even a tiny bit
10:10 AM thomasvansteenki: yeah true
10:10 AM sync: the first goniometer is easy, just two harmonic drives
10:10 AM SpeedEvil: requiring absolutely constant speed increases the required capability, over slightly more complicated control
10:13 AM thomasvansteenki: any way to calculate the newton force on the steppers?
10:13 AM thomasvansteenki: or sensor*
10:13 AM thomasvansteenki: our heidenhain machine has this
10:13 AM thomasvansteenki: and if forces are too much it shuts down
10:13 AM sync: well, it looks for the following error
10:14 AM SpeedEvil: thomasvansteenki: you could start by reading the manuals.
10:14 AM SpeedEvil: If you have an existing machine, and see what it says it can do
10:14 AM thomasvansteenki: there are service manuals, i might find that there
10:15 AM thomasvansteenki: i only read the programming manual thus far :P
10:16 AM sync: interestingly the benders don't seem to use a mandrel
10:17 AM thomasvansteenki: mandrel?
10:18 AM thomasvansteenki: ah
10:18 AM thomasvansteenki: a filling
10:18 AM thomasvansteenki: not needed as it bends very small sections bit by bit
10:31 AM archivist: thomasvansteenki, linuxcnc has controlled a bending machine
10:32 AM Wolf_: spring back must be fun to account for w/ cnc tube bending
10:32 AM archivist: you make an item then fiddle the code to add/subtract some bend until they come out to spec
10:33 AM archivist: hand coding is probably a must for this
10:34 AM thomasvansteenki: I think it's more a matter of finding the right coefficients and calculations :)
10:34 AM Wolf_: the tube bending software I have has a calibration tab
10:34 AM thomasvansteenki: sure in beginning everything wil be faulty
10:35 AM thomasvansteenki: (als its not quite linear, the coefficient)
10:35 AM thomasvansteenki: as*
10:35 AM Wolf_: I forget how it worked tho, looked at it once but never used it or my bender yet lol good investment…
10:37 AM archivist: I have used bending calcs but they usually are written for press work not cnc bender and forcing out of a die against a peg etc
10:38 AM Wolf_: well, at least the software still exists http://www.bend-tech.com/product_infos/bt_pro.html got it almost 12-13 yrs ago
10:41 AM archivist: rather a lot of extras needed !
10:42 AM archivist: er wot This helps to confirm the manufacturability of the part and the bend order. (*Does NOT check for collision.)
10:42 AM Wolf_: lol, yeah I saw that
10:43 AM archivist: "feature"
10:46 AM Wolf_: I would assume that the visualization part would show you if you make a part that won’t clear itself tho...
11:03 AM thomasvansteenki: i think that it'd work by taking the gradient of the curve
11:03 AM thomasvansteenki: and multiplying this angle times a coeficient
11:06 AM archivist: bending tables and calcs that are out there tend to be pretty good
11:49 AM LeelooMinai: Within a month or so Fusion360 will move out of beta the sheet metal bending mode (re the above).
11:57 AM archivist: I dont think fusion will deal with pushing a tube/wire out of a die against a bending element
11:59 AM LeelooMinai: From what I know they had been working on it for a while and with a lot of user input - maybe something there will be adaptable to this case, who knows.
12:15 PM * jym needs a 100ft water gun
12:15 PM jdh: how would you carry it
12:16 PM jym: correction... That shoots a 100ft distance
12:22 PM SpeedEvil: jym: you can do that, but the diameter needs to be quite large
12:23 PM SpeedEvil: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1bdXAHXXXXXbeXFXXq6xXFXXXh/205720208/HTB1bdXAHXXXXXbeXFXXq6xXFXXXh.jpg 2 bar, 20mm nozzle, 33m
12:25 PM LeelooMinai: Did not know that people take Easter Monday so seriously...
12:25 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.simesprinklers.com/i/Sime-Sprinklers-K1.jpg or 8mm, at 22psi just clears 100 feet
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: 13gpm
12:26 PM jym: SpeedEvil: Hmmm, I'm sorta okey with the diam, just not sure I'd have the reserve water capacity for it. I'd like something like a "water grenade" where it doens't throw a stream as much as a "water balloons worth" of water at a time
12:27 PM jym: SpeedEvil: I thick it's the "venturi effect"? shrug
12:27 PM SpeedEvil: There is no especial reason you can't fire 500ml in 500ms and then shut teh valve
12:27 PM LeelooMinai: Doubt it will work - they will disperse in air:)
12:28 PM SpeedEvil: you need a fairly slow moving 'rod' of water, otherwise it will rapidly disperse
12:28 PM jym: LeelooMinai: Yeah, will have to have "extra" as well.
12:28 PM LeelooMinai: Shoot ice ball instead:)
12:28 PM SpeedEvil: Note that going from 2 to 7 bar in the aove graph means you go about 1.5* as far
12:29 PM SpeedEvil: Or, of course, you can fire balls of ice
12:29 PM LeelooMinai: Catapult + ice projectiles - depending on your objectives.
12:29 PM jym: I made a syrgine type cannon years ago, It did well for tight spread (for a lack of better word)
12:30 PM jym: Long stream, that just followed upon itself
12:30 PM jym: When loaded, it was 8ft long =)
12:31 PM Loetmichel_: if you want to have lots of water on a tight impact area a big nozzle and low pressure is the way to go
12:31 PM Loetmichel_: the faster the stream gets the more it disperses because of air resistance
12:31 PM jym: ah
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: water balloon
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: or ice cubes
12:32 PM jym: LN2 to freeze the water?
12:32 PM LeelooMinai: Shoot it inside vacuum:)
12:32 PM jym: Hmmm, I wonder if CO2 would freeze water fast enough?
12:32 PM jym: doubt it
12:33 PM LeelooMinai: You need Mr Freeze gun obviously
12:33 PM jym: LeelooMinai: True
12:33 PM CaptHindsight: can the bucket fly along with the water?
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:34 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Maybe, but then I'd have to have a bunch o buckets
12:34 PM SpeedEvil: jym: what are you trying to do?
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: catapult and bag of water
12:35 PM jym: SpeedEvil: scare critters away
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel_: 200 UH LED 5mm 5euros
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: at 22k mcd
12:35 PM SpeedEvil: A fast solenoid valve, and a ~30PSI compressed air reservoir (or pump capable of 10gpm@2 bar), an 8mm nozzle, and you're pretty much done
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: jym: fill them with urine
12:36 PM Loetmichel_: IchGucksLive: hmm?
12:36 PM jym: SpeedEvil: I have a 2000PSI nitrigen gas tank
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: oh what happpend in OL FL a CNC shop raped for 3D printers
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: If your water is at a higher pressure than 30PSI or so, you can just use a compressed air bladder to provide momentary buffering.
12:36 PM CaptHindsight: urine collection should be cheap
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: jym: 2000PSI makes it go much less far than 30PSI
12:36 PM jym: SpeedEvil: I figured
12:37 PM SpeedEvil: 2000PSI will make it atomise instantly - you need unturbulent flow from a sharp orifice as much as you can
12:37 PM jym: SpeedEvil: bladder is an idea, innertube comes to mind
12:37 PM jym: though, water dosn't compress, air des, so not sure on that
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: jym: pranks on the neighbors again?
12:38 PM Loetmichel_: as i said: BIG nozzle, low pressure
12:38 PM Loetmichel_: high pressure will only result in mist
12:38 PM SpeedEvil: http://imgur.com/gallery/WUfBW 'I can swing my saw saw'
12:38 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder how much a blade like this costs:)
12:39 PM jym: Loetmichel_: Yeah just trying to figure out a firing mech for it, I'd like to have 3-8 shots out of it at a time.
12:39 PM LeelooMinai: And what would ancient Egiptians think of it.
12:40 PM SpeedEvil: :
12:40 PM SpeedEvil: )
12:40 PM jym: LeelooMinai: the cost is an arm and a leg =)
12:40 PM SpeedEvil: The Omnicut saws combine the hardness of diamonds with the robustness of tungsten carbide saws' construction to make a saw that can cut through hard and soft rock, reinforced concrete and wood, without the need to change the blade.
12:40 PM SpeedEvil: Excellent tool for breaking and entering.
12:40 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I guess the cost and wear, etc. must be lower than the benefit of it.
12:40 PM SpeedEvil: All the burglars will want them
12:41 PM Loetmichel_: jym: pump that can provide enough water, big 1-2" ball valve, a small air cylinder to open/close it "instantly", done
12:41 PM Loetmichel_: and the nozzle of course
12:41 PM jym: Loetmichel_: I want one of these vales https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t0eQc8FoRbg#t=190
12:41 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe those rectangular pieces on the perimeter are replacable.
12:43 PM Loetmichel_: jym: if you can open and close a 2" ball valve in less than 0,2 seconds it practically works the same
12:43 PM jym: did you watch that vid?
12:44 PM jym: Loetmichel_: ^^^
12:44 PM Loetmichel_: thats how i did it for a "musical fountain" in a shopping mall some years ago
12:44 PM Loetmichel_: it pretty much shoots PARTS of parabolas with these valves
12:44 PM Loetmichel_: yes i did
12:45 PM jym: Loetmichel_: I like the "air controlled" mech, makes MUCH more sense, and auC can control the timing almost instatanously
12:45 PM jym: uC
12:46 PM jym: same compressed air supply for both.
12:46 PM jym: I'm liking where this is going =)
12:47 PM LeelooMinai: It went into a lala-land like 10 minutes ago already:p
12:47 PM * jym lol @ LeelooMinai
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NaQBvfEGMU lots of water balloon cannon videos
12:49 PM LeelooMinai: There's probably a DARPA project worth $1 billion in people
12:49 PM LeelooMinai: 's taxes about whooting balloons as a weapon somewhere in the past.
12:50 PM LeelooMinai: Concluded with "found ineffective on armored vehicles":)
12:50 PM jym: HOLY SHIT!!! 150FT straight up https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t0eQc8FoRbg#t=474
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: jym: beware https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXI1PDTp5gk
12:51 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder what the neighbours of that guy thought.
12:52 PM jym: CaptHindsight: LOL, no worries, my exlosives are tucked tightly in the magazine.
12:52 PM LeelooMinai: Probably by this time, they are like this guy: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/04/16/4118D02000000578-0-image-a-1_1496589910478.jpg
12:52 PM CaptHindsight: have you tried circling the property with urine yet?
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: virtually no cost solution
12:53 PM jym: CaptHindsight: I'l consider it
12:53 PM LeelooMinai: "you're in, you're in, you'ra in"
12:54 PM Loetmichel_: meh. i cant find a video of the "indoor fountain" where i did that... it was in the "city arkaden Wuppertal", between the up and down running escalators.
12:55 PM LeelooMinai: I saw few fountains like that - I guess if you have right trajectory, the forces balance and the water stays together.
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.offthegridnews.com/survival-gardening-2/hair-and-urine-the-absolute-best-way-to-keep-animals-out-of-your-garden/
12:56 PM sync: You need a flow conditioner for those laminar flow fountains
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: you just need to invite some hairy friends over for beer and hair cuts
12:58 PM LeelooMinai: CaptHindsight: lol - that site is a bit weird
12:58 PM jym: ballow mortor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1BC6TqWVM0
01:00 PM LeelooMinai: lol at the side of that video: http://i.imgur.com/f8tIm3q.png
01:01 PM LeelooMinai: "that escallated pretty fast"
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: grow these around the property https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuzLXxbGc4c
01:04 PM LeelooMinai: ...
01:04 PM gregcnc: that narrative is.....
01:04 PM LeelooMinai: Not exactly National Geographic-level
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: Someone needs to grow these bushes areounf The Whitehouse imo:)
01:07 PM LeelooMinai: Er...
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: Anyone used one of those thingies? https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/5-in-vise-mount-bending-brake/A-p8663759e
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: If it works, seems useful for small stuff, no?
01:21 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, 14 gauge is 2mm - I have a lot of 2mm steel sheet in the shed. I think I will get it.
01:23 PM LeelooMinai: "glycerine filled pressure gauge" - wonder what is that glycerine for... To dumpen the needle vibrations?
01:24 PM SpeedEvil: yes
01:24 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I have one gauge/regulator and indeed, I was kind of worried what the needle was doing on opening it with a solenoid.
01:25 PM LeelooMinai: Looked like it was going to jump out of the case.
01:25 PM LeelooMinai: Even thought of getting some kind of dampener or something
01:26 PM phipli: evening
01:26 PM LeelooMinai: phipli: Speak for yourself:p
01:27 PM phipli: I am
01:27 PM phipli: :)
01:27 PM LeelooMinai: Internet has no evenings:)
01:27 PM phipli: [evening/morning/g'day]
01:27 PM phipli: hum
01:28 PM phipli: we used to always greet with "morning" on the last such place I spent much time
01:28 PM phipli: saved thought, and it was /somewhere/
01:38 PM Cromaglious_: That is the convension for Freenode as well... Morning when you arrived no matter local time... evening or night when you leave for the day.. G'day, howdy, 'ello for middle of the day...
01:38 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:38 PM Cromaglious_: nitey nite
01:45 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, what is the name of those feet with rubber and threaded screw with nut that you put under machines to stand on?
01:45 PM Cromaglious_: adjustable foot?
01:46 PM Cromaglious_: screw adjustable foot
01:46 PM LeelooMinai: O, ok, yes - I need to insert them in fusion from the McMaster catalogue.
01:46 PM Cromaglious_: or leveling foot
01:47 PM FinboySlick: Fusion has a mcmaster catalogue built-in?
01:47 PM FinboySlick: Or are you just downloading the parts and importing them in?
01:47 PM LeelooMinai: Yes - lovely no? ;)
01:47 PM FinboySlick: Autodesk is evil incarnate, but that does sound convenient.
01:47 PM LeelooMinai: It's built in
01:48 PM LeelooMinai: FinboySlick: http://i.imgur.com/Srz6HCU.png
01:49 PM FinboySlick: LeelooMinai: Cute. What are you putting those under?
01:50 PM LeelooMinai: FinboySlick: I already have them under my CNC, just needed to model them - so this is the simplest way (use model for some similar looking ones.)
01:51 PM LeelooMinai: Since I am making my stand "great again" and want to see where the feet are.
01:52 PM LeelooMinai: FinboySlick: So, what Autodesk did again? The Fusion people seem to be pretty cool so far - they talk on the forums, listen to suggestions, etc.
01:53 PM LeelooMinai: And they have updates to the software I think every month.
01:53 PM LeelooMinai: With videos about what was changed, etc.
01:54 PM FinboySlick: My experience is that they're the Microsoft of the CAD world, though I guess with some decent competition nibbling at their feet, they started upping their game.
01:55 PM LeelooMinai: I guess, those are the programmers, engineers, designers, etc. Up there (where the marketing people and CEOs, etc. are), there are probably more assholes around:)
01:58 PM LeelooMinai: That McMaster place is a bit crazy - 1500 leveling feet, including ones designed for small earthquakes.
02:15 PM * LeelooMinai looks at tiny Chinese ruler from China that was a "gift" in some package and notes that it has cms and inches, but inches are divided into 10 segments.
02:20 PM LeelooMinai: Must have been a beta version
02:21 PM Cromaglious_: That's why it's a gift... decimal inch is nice sometimes
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: Just found another one of those - this one seems to have both decimal and fractional - much nicer.
02:23 PM Cromaglious_: My Fravorite rule is inch one side with 32nds and 16nds on one edge and 20th and 10th on the other edgge. Other side of rule is metric
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I think this one is just like that.
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: Not bad for a free thing.
02:23 PM Cromaglious_: cept number and lines are printed not laser etched :(
02:24 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm,just looking at mine and the numbers and lines are super-sharp.
02:25 PM Cromaglious_: http://www.ebay.com/itm/30cm-12-inches-Stainless-Steel-Straight-Ruler-Precision-Scale-Double-Sided-/252973775215
02:25 PM Cromaglious_: that's mine
02:25 PM LeelooMinai: It seems like, I don't know... maybe etched?
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: Right, mine is a bit different, let me take a pic.
02:30 PM Cromaglious_: I can find etched from england but they're only fractional not decimal inch as well
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I don't know: http://i.imgur.com/cI700dT.jpg
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: Reflections make it a bit weird, but in real life when I look at it, all is very sharp and the paint is prefect - maybe just better process.
02:36 PM * FinboySlick finally found an engineer for his concrete slab. Apparently his calculations weren't too far off.
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: lol @ IRC - talking about marks on rulers. Soon someone will post a microscope picture of those:p
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: O, wait:( http://i.imgur.com/A4AyWPM.jpg
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: No laser:)
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: My guess is etched and painted.
03:08 PM Todd_Z: Mass produced in China, I bet they were stamped.
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know much about stamping, but that must have been some pretty accurate stamp.
03:33 PM JT-Shop: well it only took all day to get linux to print again after my vacation
03:34 PM phipli: just the one day?
03:34 PM TurBoss: wow thats a record
03:34 PM TurBoss: :D
03:34 PM phipli: actually printing isn't something I've had issues with
03:34 PM TurBoss: my brother printer has a oficial deb ;)
03:35 PM phipli: graphics... now that is something I hate. My laptop has one of those dual intel and nvidia cards
03:35 PM Cromaglious_: heh.. I couldn't print for 3 months...
03:35 PM phipli: every now and then I don't have a gui for a day after an update breaks the graphics driver
03:35 PM Cromaglious_: still have one computer that can't print to it..
03:36 PM phipli: do you print over cups?
03:36 PM Cromaglious_: directly to a HP jet direct
03:37 PM Cromaglious_: well linux machines are using cups..
03:38 PM Cromaglious_: the 2 windows machines are going direct.. one computer it wireless off the main router and it can't see the printer becuase of the Cat 5 cable not working well enough.. I have Cat 6 cables on order
03:39 PM Cromaglious_: the other windows machine is hardwired into the same switch the jetdirect is on
03:39 PM Cromaglious_: and the Cat 5 cable is short enough it works
04:01 PM JT-Shop: just walked to the edge to take a leak and scared the crap out of some deer napping below
04:02 PM phipli: did they manage to surprise you too?
04:04 PM JT-Shop: a bit yes
04:04 PM JT-Shop: sent you an email
04:08 PM Deejay: gn8
04:11 PM Cromaglious_: too rich for my pocket http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Spi-USA-made-12-300mm-Rigid-Machinists-Tempered-Etched-STEEL-Rule-13-849-5/391805841911?_trksid=p5713.c100284.m3505&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D12%26asc%3D20140905073823%26meid%3D455d080a7a3849829f9a6aacab4a4c22%26pid%3D100284%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D391805841911
04:12 PM phipli: JT-Shop, you realise that because I haven't done much Arduino stuff on my new computer (tend to keep using my laptop because all the libraries are installed), all three saved projects relate to chickens?
04:12 PM gregcnc: this one was suggested as an alternative www.ebay.com/itm/252973775215
04:15 PM JT-Shop: phipli: I don't understand your question... might be the accent
04:15 PM roycroft: or you could print out a picture of a ruler and glue it onto a stick
04:17 PM phipli: Wasn't a question - Statement : this computer only has Chicken Arduino projects on it.
04:17 PM JT-Shop: lol
04:18 PM phipli: Sorry about the accent, I'll try to type with less of one
04:19 PM andypugh: Is it possible to type with an áccént?
04:19 PM phipli: yarp
04:19 PM SpeedEvil: Also 'indianisms' and similar.
04:20 PM gregcnc: it is, but hard to catch if you' aren't familiar
04:20 PM SpeedEvil: 'doing the needfull'
04:22 PM phipli: There are loads of different strong accents over here
04:22 PM phipli: can't understand people from a few of the cities
04:24 PM dioz: so this dude is trying to tell me that miter rise isn't the same as trig
04:24 PM dioz: i'm like "you on meth bro"
04:24 PM phipli: Sometimes people from a rail maintenance depot in Scotland phone me and at the end of the "conversation" I politely say "Hum. All very interesting. Could you send me a summary in an email so that I have it on file?"
04:24 PM dioz: he says "where you get the answers for miter rise?" i say: "a boook"
04:24 PM dioz: he says "where you get the answers for trig?" i say: "i math them out"
04:25 PM dioz: but miter rise is trig!
04:26 PM dioz: so apparently i'm gonna lose marks on my layout for the pattern
04:26 PM dioz: cause i used all trig to determine my cutsize and didn't draw an elevation view
04:27 PM dioz: you don't need a elevation view. you can calculate it top to botto.
04:27 PM gregcnc: do what you're told don't ask questions
04:27 PM dioz: school makes me mad
04:28 PM dioz: they like "we wanna know that you know how to use it." i'm like. "yah totes. that's why i trig it all out"
04:28 PM phipli: real life is great
04:28 PM phipli: they let me copy other people's work and everything
04:29 PM dioz: i have to draft a drop cheek elbow right away here
04:30 PM JT-Shop: phipli: seems to work as expected this time :)
04:30 PM dioz: "working line radius"
04:31 PM roycroft: does school make you mad or does school trigger your madness? :)
04:31 PM phipli: JT-Shop, excellent - I got distracted buying bits for my auto door
04:31 PM dioz: and my hands smell like burning from stuck welding all day
04:31 PM dioz: stick
04:31 PM phipli: the girls are getting noisier in the mornings
04:31 PM phipli: don't want to be lynched by the neighbours
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I have a couple of DS3231's on the way to mess with calculating sunrise and sunset for the door
04:34 PM phipli: At the moment I just have a mains timer switch on the pigeon's light
04:34 PM phipli: works quite well
04:34 PM phipli: (oh yeah, we have an injured feral pigeon - have had it for about 2 years. damn thing)
04:35 PM SpeedEvil: At that point, it's not really feral
04:35 PM phipli: you've not seen how much it hates us
04:37 PM roycroft: is it capable of avian transport of internet datagrams yet, phipli?
04:37 PM roycroft: or does it need further training?
04:37 PM phipli: sadly no
04:37 PM phipli: high packet loss due to high latency
04:37 PM phipli: and cats
04:37 PM nubcake: :D
04:37 PM roycroft: injury-related latency?
04:37 PM phipli: yes
04:37 PM phipli: can't fly and can hardly walk
04:38 PM phipli: hence not released
04:38 PM roycroft: i should think that the feline stimulus would encourage lowering the average latency
04:38 PM phipli: it is suffering from a medical condition known as "lunch for a cat"
04:38 PM roycroft: oh
04:38 PM nubcake: ouch... sounds bad
04:38 PM roycroft: and it's taking its time choosing it's cat?
04:38 PM roycroft: its
04:39 PM phipli: it mostly spends its time doing 180 degree rotation jumps...
04:39 PM phipli: one leg is stronger than the other...
04:39 PM SpeedEvil: Proving that whatever your condition, there is always hop.
04:40 PM phipli: heh
04:40 PM nubcake: the pun is strong in this one... :D
04:41 PM roycroft: you should get it a mini-segway
04:41 PM roycroft: or strap it to a drone
04:41 PM phipli: the latter might work
04:41 PM nubcake: and strap its brain to the drone control board?
04:42 PM roycroft: duct tape will do the job
04:42 PM phipli: sounds like we have a plan
04:42 PM roycroft: if it's good enough for a moon buggy it's good enough for a pigeon
04:42 PM phipli: arm it with a nerf gun to take revenge on the cat
04:42 PM nubcake: lol poor cat
04:43 PM phipli: "did someone just see a pigeon strapped to a quadcopter screaming 'die cat die!'"?
04:48 PM nubcake: the possibilities :o
04:57 PM Cromaglious_: s/pigeon/flying rat/
04:58 PM Cromaglious_: s/dove/slightly prettier flying rat/
04:58 PM phipli: same thing
04:58 PM phipli: just better PR
04:59 PM Cromaglious_: pigeon tastes better than pigeon
04:59 PM phipli: to be fair, it is actually a "wood pigeon"
04:59 PM phipli: not a whatever pigeon
04:59 PM phipli: should look like this : http://www.english-country-garden.com/a/i/birds/wood-pigeon-1.jpg
05:00 PM phipli: we also have a collared dove that visits the bird table
05:00 PM phipli: they're tiny compared to the wood pigeons, but seem to get on fine
05:00 PM phipli: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/PHOTO/LARGE/eurasian_collared_dove_1.jpg
05:04 PM JT-Shop: I just need to add a small delay for the down prox so it fully closes and it's ready
05:05 PM phipli: everyone knows that bearings make great wheels right?
05:11 PM roycroft: i saw a video of a guy who made a lathe dolly by bolting som big bearings onto a couple pieces of round bar stock and attaching them to the bottom of the lathe
05:11 PM roycroft: it was a decent size lathe (probably 2 tons), and it moved quite easily
05:16 PM andypugh: phipli: I see my careful orthography was wasted on you :-)
05:17 PM roycroft: not that i know where i'd put it offhand, but does anyone have any experience with those sub-$1k surface grinders that are so common on ebay?
05:17 PM roycroft: do they usually need extensive/expensive repairs at that price?
05:18 PM phipli: andypugh, when did you say something?
05:18 PM andypugh: roycroft: For moving my lathe (which needs to happen moderately often for servicing) I made a build-round and jack-up moving dolly thingy. Have you seen it?
05:18 PM roycroft: no, i haven't
05:18 PM andypugh: phipli: andypugh: Is it possible to type with an áccént? :-)
05:18 PM andypugh: (that’s a fairly acute accent)
05:19 PM phipli: I saw it, but got distracted by a film quote
05:19 PM andypugh: roycroft: Pictures 6 and 7: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/holbrook1.html
05:20 PM phipli: ooooh
05:21 PM roycroft: nice
05:21 PM roycroft: i make similar stands for my machines
05:22 PM roycroft: the lathe stand is stationary though
05:22 PM roycroft: but it built it so that if i raise the leveling screws all the way an engine hoist just fits underneath the stand
05:22 PM roycroft: there's about 1/8" clearance, which is plenty
05:23 PM roycroft: my horizontal mill is tucked away in a place where i can't work on it or work with it
05:23 PM roycroft: i'm putting it on casters soon, as i'm getting anxious to get it working
05:23 PM andypugh: My frame is a bit in the way when the lathe is in use, so it is made to come apart and hide in the corner of the shed.
05:24 PM roycroft: yes, i could see it bruising your shins
05:24 PM roycroft: which is a painful thing
05:25 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: note that if you use bearings loaded at one point on the shell of the bearing, the load capacity is a fraction of the nameplate rating of the bearing
05:26 PM SpeedEvil: (but you may not care if they're damaged due to overload)
05:27 PM roycroft: unless your lathe is in a place you don't want it to be and it stops moving
05:29 PM phipli: right
05:29 PM phipli: bits for chicken door ordered
05:29 PM phipli: although some of it wont be here for potentially weeks
05:29 PM roycroft: i thought bits were for dogs
05:29 PM roycroft: along with kibbles
05:29 PM andypugh: You are making a door out of chickens?
05:29 PM phipli: or horses
05:30 PM phipli: andypugh, yes. yes I am
05:30 PM phipli: that is exactly what I am doing
05:30 PM roycroft: it's for people who fear going outside
05:30 PM andypugh: Like that meat-dress of Lady Gaga?
05:30 PM phipli: higher tensile strength than steel and more elastic than rubber
05:30 PM phipli: perfect material
05:30 PM roycroft: faster than a speeding bullet?
05:31 PM phipli: before it gets pulled over, yes
05:31 PM andypugh: Well, some chickens are _exactly_ as elastic as rubber.
05:31 PM phipli: would that be the wooden ones?
05:31 PM andypugh: Certainly not the iron ones.
05:31 PM phipli: you're thinking of pigs
05:32 PM phipli: its pig-iron
05:32 PM phipli: not chicken-iron
05:32 PM andypugh: I am actually thinking of The Clangers
05:32 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfsMZKwqw3w
05:32 PM phipli: ah yes
05:32 PM phipli: I wasn't thinking of those chickens.
05:34 PM phipli: Mind you. Cemani chickens are quite metal
05:34 PM phipli: http://vrf.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cemani-chickens-05.jpg
05:34 PM phipli: and yes, their flesh is black
05:39 PM LeelooMinai: http://i.imgur.com/4CY6Rzq.png
05:40 PM phipli: :)
05:40 PM phipli: explains the grumpy face
05:41 PM sync: andypugh: I have some fha25c harmonic drives, and from what I understand they are regular non wire saving encoders
05:41 PM andypugh: sync: Grand!
05:42 PM phipli: interesting looking bike by the way andypugh
05:42 PM andypugh: phipli: I would say those chickens were more Goth than Metal.
05:42 PM sync: only the "E" series ones have that
05:42 PM andypugh: Hmm, I guess you will see when they arrive.
05:43 PM andypugh: I am not good at cross-referencing names. Do you have one of my castings?
05:43 PM phipli: andypugh, is that one of those parachute drop type bikes?
05:43 PM sync: no andypugh, that is rene-dev
05:43 PM andypugh: phipli: No, nor a Wellbike, much older.
05:43 PM andypugh: sync: And StJohn
05:44 PM sync: ah, yeah
05:44 PM andypugh: phipli: Better pictures: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/stowe-maries-photos.html
05:45 PM andypugh: (Taken by a friend who is a professional photographer)
05:45 PM phipli: the seat spring sits /on/ the filler cap?
05:45 PM andypugh: And if you have hours to spare, the ful story: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Neracar01%20The%20Beginning
05:46 PM andypugh: phipli: Just one of many very strange features.
05:46 PM sync: I think they are just using yaskawa oem drives rebranded
05:46 PM phipli: is the tinwork the chassis, or is there a tubular frame inside??
05:46 PM sync: which would make the serial encoder drivable by the stmbl
05:46 PM andypugh: phipli: All is answered in the blog :-)
05:46 PM cradek: that seat spring really is strange
05:46 PM phipli: haven't got that far yet :p
05:47 PM andypugh: sync: Rene took one of the Yaskawa encoders home from London Hackerspace (where they have a robot driven by the FHA-nnC drives)
05:48 PM andypugh: Planning to reverse-engineer the protocol for STMBL
05:48 PM rene-dev: That's tamagawa, not yaskawa
05:48 PM cradek: andypugh: does it have enough spark again to run?
05:49 PM rene-dev: Yaskawa already works, tamagawa im working on
05:49 PM andypugh: cradek: Seems to have, I rode it round the block last week :-)
05:49 PM cradek: yay!
05:49 PM andypugh: cradek: Did you see my magneto recharger?
05:50 PM phipli: a... ladder chassis?!
05:50 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: Is that battlebots or robotwars robot? :)
05:50 PM cradek: yep, and the thought of your 48kW-dissipating coil is pretty funny
05:50 PM andypugh: phipli: Indeed, it is built exactly like a 1920s car, but with only two wheels.
05:50 PM cradek: it would have lasted for a brief moment and probably done a very good job
05:51 PM andypugh: cradek: Ah, yes, like the coin-shrinkers. Have you seen those?
05:51 PM cradek: yeah, only in photos, which is good
05:52 PM andypugh: There are videos too, which are even better
05:52 PM cradek: andypugh: I'm slowly getting everything working on my bus/rv again (had been sitting a few years)
05:52 PM cradek: is caravan the right english term for rv?
05:53 PM andypugh: Did you see that German(?) RV made from a double-decker coach? That looked cool
05:53 PM cradek: nothing like as tricky as your old stuff, but rewarding for me
05:53 PM andypugh: We tend to call them camper vans. (the double decker might be the campest van)
05:53 PM cradek: yeah I saw a double-decker retrofit blog pretty recently
05:53 PM cradek: it had a whirlpool tub and some other very questionable things
05:54 PM andypugh: Ah, this must be a different one
05:54 PM cradek: heh
05:54 PM cradek: you'll fill that with what, exactly?
05:54 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeMT1d_L-hw
05:55 PM cradek: jeez even harder to drive places than mine...
05:55 PM andypugh: Ah, Dutch (yellow number plates)
05:55 PM malcom2073: Holy hell that's awesome
05:56 PM LeelooMinai: I think it's scary.
05:57 PM malcom2073: It's onmy bucket list to do that to a normal bus
05:57 PM cradek: water tank looks like it's 8' off the ground
05:57 PM andypugh: I liked it. My dad built a series of camper vans when we were kids, of increasing size as we became less kid-sized
05:58 PM cradek: andypugh: yes this is the one with the bathtub!
05:58 PM andypugh: cradek: The bus is designed around 80 people on the top deck, I doubt that the water tank is a problem
05:58 PM cradek: people don't slosh
05:58 PM cradek: well mostly :-)
05:58 PM LeelooMinai: But who would like to travel/live in a bus... Sounds pretty dangerous to me.
05:58 PM cradek: but point taken
05:58 PM andypugh: When did you last travel on a bus? :-)
05:59 PM phipli: last week
05:59 PM cradek: heh yesterday, but I was driving
05:59 PM LeelooMinai: I mean in "a bus/RV-like contraption" in general.
05:59 PM andypugh: It’s quite a small bath.
06:00 PM andypugh: I guess intended for showering mainly, but perhaps with an eye to just what a mess kids can get in.
06:00 PM cradek: it's all quite beautifully done
06:01 PM andypugh: My dad’s first conversion was one of these: http://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay708900.jpg
06:01 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, that is definitelly an UK design:)
06:01 PM malcom2073: andypugh: That's awesome
06:02 PM andypugh: You can see how a family of 5 might grow out of it :-)
06:02 PM cradek: wow 900 AH of battery would be nice
06:02 PM LeelooMinai: All it needs is Benny Hill or Mr Bean and ready to roll:p
06:03 PM andypugh: Then we had a https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2708/4416668246_3b6ffd4bc2_b.jpg
06:03 PM JT-Shop: left the door timer running while I was gone last week and it was behind about 3 hours when I checked it...
06:03 PM cradek: I have about 200 which will run lights at night and the refrigerator overnight, and then recharge easily the next day if the sun is out
06:03 PM andypugh: But the wheels fell off. (yes, they all did that, apparently)
06:04 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop add a RTC to the ardweenie
06:06 PM malcom2073: Oh man he had to buy a new engine for that bus
06:06 PM malcom2073: ouch
06:07 PM JT-Shop: yea got a DS3231 on the way
06:07 PM DrippityDrops: JT-Shop: I wonder if you could use just a really cheap watch witha daily alarm to clock it ahhahaha
06:07 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, is that one I2C?
06:07 PM DrippityDrops: $0.99 watch and it just resets the loop every morning :)
06:07 PM JT-Shop: well with the DS3231 I can calculate the sunrise and sunset by date
06:07 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: yea
06:07 PM phipli: JT-Shop, the problem might be partly because of the roll-over on the timer
06:08 PM malcom2073: Jesus, he gets 8-13miles/gallon....
06:08 PM malcom2073: that's what my SUV gets
06:08 PM * malcom2073 cries
06:08 PM malcom2073: a lot
06:08 PM DrippityDrops: how many tears, in gpm?
06:08 PM DrippityDrops: :P
06:08 PM JT-Shop: phipli: might have been loss of power we had a couple storms while I was gone
06:08 PM andypugh: The last one he started to build was based around one of these: http://miliblog.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/british-postwar-austin-champs/austin-champ-aas-31380-be-43.jpg for the drivetrain, with the TS3 engine: https://youtu.be/JrAoj5Cuu68?t=1m (which has to be one of the best-sounding diesels ever)
06:09 PM malcom2073: DrippityDrops: :/
06:09 PM malcom2073: heh
06:10 PM * JT-Shop continues his search for the desktop
06:10 PM malcom2073: May someday I'll sell my machines and get into building a proper rv
06:10 PM phipli: andypugh, that does sound meaty
06:11 PM JT-Shop: my RV only has two wheels :)
06:11 PM malcom2073: I've finally got a vehicle capable of towing a travel trailer,so I can eye them up heh
06:12 PM andypugh: But. sadly that last machine (which would have been awesome, he was going to scratch-build the chassis and body) never got finished because my sisters got to the age (14) where camping with parents was worse than anything at all ever.
06:12 PM phipli: sigh
06:12 PM malcom2073: Damn kids ruining everything heh
06:12 PM phipli: my dad stopped building dune buggies when I was about 5
06:12 PM phipli: decided to go all serious
06:12 PM malcom2073: My dad stopped building performance muscle cars when I was like 2
06:12 PM malcom2073: :/
06:12 PM phipli: common story :)
06:13 PM malcom2073: Yep heh
06:13 PM Tom_L: prolly had to pay for your diapers
06:13 PM andypugh: The Austin LD had a new body from the cab back, and he had already done the chassis, he would have got there.
06:13 PM malcom2073: I was, and am, still full of crap
06:13 PM LeelooMinai: My dad was able to afford a broken rusty car when I was 12:)
06:13 PM phipli: I can just remember the bug based sandrail with the V8
06:13 PM malcom2073: buddy of mine has a sand rail, he's managed to turn going to the desert into a RV vacation to justify keeping it
06:13 PM malcom2073: through having a family
06:14 PM phipli: turns out that a beetle gearbox can handle many times its intended power if you weld a strap over the top to stop it rotating in its mounts (which happened to find out)
06:14 PM Tom_L: trans plate like drag cars use
06:15 PM JT-Shop: yea we used to bend some all thread with a hose over it to go over the nose of the transaxle
06:15 PM malcom2073: nice heh
06:16 PM JT-Shop: then chain the axles up so they could not tuck if you hit a curb
06:16 PM andypugh: The Rootes TS3 engine is one of the most interesting ever made. It’s a 3-cylinder 6-piston 2-stroke, superchaged Diesel.
06:17 PM phipli: oooh
06:17 PM phipli: Its that engine
06:17 PM phipli: I see your 3 combustion chambers for 6 pistons and raise you a Class 55 Deltic engine
06:18 PM phipli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic
06:19 PM phipli: Sure, the specific power was great, but was it worth the complexity?
06:19 PM phipli: http://cdn.speednik.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/04/deltic-gears-being-worked-on-photo-1.jpg
06:20 PM phipli: http://www.waghornswood.net.nz/Manuals/Interesting/Deltic/Napier_Sabre_section.gif
06:24 PM andypugh: Note how I sad that the TS3 was _one_ of the most interesting. The Napier Deltic is the second most interesting after the Napier Nomad (the Nomad wins for being a piston diesel engine with an _afterburner_
06:24 PM phipli: turbo compound? or am I getting mixed up?
06:25 PM phipli: Ah yes.
06:26 PM phipli: That didn't get fitted to trains - I work in the rail industry so occasionally see the Deltics
06:26 PM phipli: My office is built on the old Derby Loco works
06:47 PM Cromaglious_: My tailbone is owie, I have a pinched nerve under my left shoulderblade. How I love sewing...
07:00 PM andypugh: Cromaglious_: If you love sewing, then you can fix the problem, then fix the leaks.
07:06 PM Cromaglious_: I love sewing on my machine (Industrial Juki DDL-5550) which is set to my height, I'm at the creator space (Maker space) where the machines are too low and have crappy pedal (DOMESTIC MACHINES)
07:07 PM Cromaglious_: and I have a proper wood chair not a folding plastic banquest car
07:07 PM andypugh: The sewing-machine servos are _really_ cheap
07:08 PM Cromaglious_: andypugh, Yep.. I have a consew CS1001 servo on mine.
07:08 PM Cromaglious_: Best $200 I ever spent
07:08 PM andypugh: But as far as I can tell don’t have a true encoder, just enough to spot needle-up
07:09 PM andypugh: My mums (very good) 1960s Singer has a stack of carbon discs as the speed control.
07:09 PM Cromaglious_: As far as I can tell, it's 2 hall effect sensors and one magnet
07:10 PM Cromaglious_: Yep about 4 of my singers have the carbon disk speed controls
07:11 PM Cromaglious_: hmm recounting.. about 8 have carbon discs
07:11 PM Cromaglious_: I forgot the Model 15's
07:13 PM andypugh: I am now wondering what my mum has. It takes cams to change the stitch.
07:14 PM TurBoss: hello
07:14 PM Cromaglious_: My mum has one of those... I have a 241 which is a 66 bobbin with built in stitch cams
07:15 PM TurBoss: I'm trying to boot linuxcnc but it only goes toa black screen
07:15 PM andypugh: I think that 403A looks right
07:15 PM TurBoss: I think that could be the integrated gpu
07:15 PM TurBoss: ...
07:15 PM TurBoss: trying a pcie one
07:15 PM Cromaglious_: My 237 is down right now.. broke the piece that holds on the hand wheel.. Brased it back together, now have to retap the grub screw hole. and find the grub screw
07:16 PM andypugh: Or buy a grub-screw to match your tap.
07:17 PM Cromaglious_: 1/2 the hole is there
07:17 PM andypugh: TurBoss: Are you saying that you can’t boot Linux, or that you can’t boot LinuxCNC. These are different problems.
07:18 PM Cromaglious_: darn it.. wish I had the $30... http://www.ebay.com/itm/singer-zig-zag-sewing-machine-model-237-/222520400616
07:19 PM Cromaglious_: wooo easy fix.. timing is off a bit
07:19 PM TurBoss: I can't boot linux
07:19 PM TurBoss: sorry
07:19 PM andypugh: Cromaglious_: You aren’t likely to pick up the half-hole even with the correct tap. Might be easier to fill the hole with braze and pick a convenient thread.
07:21 PM andypugh: Cromaglious_: So buy it anywhere, fix and re-sell. I reckon you can make 2 to 3 $ per hour that way :-)
07:21 PM andypugh: TurBoss: Do any Linux versions work?
07:21 PM TurBoss: not sure
07:21 PM Cromaglious_: it's the nicer one than mine.. it has the drop dog...
07:22 PM andypugh: TurBoss: Try a non-wierd (Non-LinuxCNC) boot disc.
07:22 PM TurBoss: ok
07:22 PM Cromaglious_: ack.. $83 shipping.. I think not...
07:22 PM andypugh: Cromaglious_: To the UK? That is what they are quoting me, too.
07:25 PM Cromaglious_: I just sent them a message asking about shipping to southern california
07:26 PM TurBoss: gpu discarted
07:28 PM andypugh: Time to go, I think, this being a work-day.
07:28 PM TurBoss: bye
07:43 PM Cromaglious_: laters..
07:49 PM TurBoss: was the usb keyboard
07:49 PM TurBoss: disabled legacy usb on bios and swiched to a ps/2 one and booted
07:50 PM TurBoss: itx MB CL4 Ram
07:50 PM TurBoss: :D
07:52 PM roycroft: i was able to get my spindle nose pattern back on the lathe, concentric to within 0.004", which is not very good, but still took a while to get that good
07:52 PM roycroft: and i was able to pick up the thread, and finish threading
07:52 PM roycroft: and i *did* write the number down wrong, which is why i screwed up
07:52 PM roycroft: 2.3845" is not the same as 2.845" :)
08:09 PM TurBoss: WOOOOW I got 1440ns on servo thread
08:09 PM TurBoss: amazing!
08:10 PM TurBoss: sadly a discontinued hp board
08:53 PM roycroft: i think i have finally figured out how the chinese clone a machine product
08:54 PM roycroft: obtain an original product
08:54 PM roycroft: strip it down bare
08:54 PM roycroft: use original parts as patterns
08:54 PM roycroft: cast clone parts
08:54 PM roycroft: dip in liquid body filler repeatedly until shrink is compensated for
08:54 PM roycroft: spray with thick, gooey, ugly paint
08:54 PM roycroft: put on boat and send out the door
09:27 PM malcom2073: Sounds about right
09:28 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, trying to decide if to buy fully threaded 1/4 rod (part of my cnc stand construbtion) or "cold rolled weldable 1/4 rod" and thread the ends only.
09:29 PM LeelooMinai: I have a tap set I once bought. Used it to tap holes, but never put a thread on a rod with it. Is there anything tricky I can expect?
09:36 PM roycroft: cold roll is essentialy case hardened, so could be hard to thread
09:37 PM roycroft: hot roll usually has mill slag, so could be hard to thread
09:37 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: How come you can see me? Thought you had me on ignore:)
09:37 PM roycroft: i'm not one to hold a grudge
09:38 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, seems somehow fully threaded rods are cheaper than those bare ones - weird. I guess I will just buy those fully threaded.
09:39 PM roycroft: but cheap allthread is essentially pot metal
09:39 PM LeelooMinai: I am guessing "pot metal" = bad?
09:39 PM LeelooMinai: They also have hot-rolled.
09:39 PM roycroft: i would use grade 8 allthread, with a yellow zinc coating if i were using it for structural purposes
09:40 PM roycroft: pot metal is pretty much just that - random steel-like stuff thrown in a pot and melted together
09:40 PM roycroft: think of a scrap yard picking up randon mystery metal with a big magnet, and shipping it off to china to be melted in to "steel"
09:40 PM LeelooMinai: Unfortunatelly I am buying this in Canadian Tire and their info on what they sell is pretty useless.
09:40 PM roycroft: random
09:43 PM roycroft: welding your stand together is better than using crappy allthread
09:45 PM roycroft: and i do understand your cost and logistics (no car) restraings, leeloominai
09:45 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I almost went for welding, but at last moment decided to withdraw from this idea, as I needed a lot of random stuff to bootstrap it, and it was a lot of money. I checked the welder though - seems to be fine. Not that inside there's anything that could be broken really - it's basically one monster transformer and temperature shutoff.
09:45 PM roycroft: but i feel compelled to point out the significance of the compromises you are considering
09:46 PM roycroft: so that when, in the end, you do decide what to do, it is a more informed decision
09:46 PM LeelooMinai: I went for new plan though - I decided to invert the stand I have upside down, bought two 1/4 steel angles for "new top" and that's what I do: http://i.imgur.com/XAL9i9i.png
09:47 PM LeelooMinai: Plus those rods vertically in the front/back I guess.
09:48 PM LeelooMinai: I bit weird, but this will be the lowest cost.
09:48 PM LeelooMinai: And low risk - I was not sure how that welding idea would end,,,
09:48 PM roycroft: if you're looking to increase rigidity, any bolted together stand will be a serious compromise
09:49 PM roycroft: if you can bore very precise holes and rivet the members together that would be reasonably rigid, as long as the rivet pattern is triangular
09:49 PM roycroft: but welding is really the best way to go if you want it to be really rigid
09:50 PM roycroft: and i say that as someone who is not a great welder, and does not particularly enjoy welding, but knows when it's needed
09:52 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well... I guess if I discover that it's not rigif enough I can always add more bolts/rods/bars/whatever or even weld it later.
09:53 PM LeelooMinai: I don't like that weldded parts are, well, welded - cannot really disassemble them, etc.
09:55 PM LeelooMinai: And I added 3 steel angles (well got them - they wait for drilling) to the CNC frame itself - so now all the beams for axis are reinforced.
09:56 PM LeelooMinai: So I guess even if the stand is not rock-solid, it still should be fine... maybe.
09:58 PM roycroft: you need to triangulate it at the very least
09:58 PM roycroft: especially if you're not going to weld it
09:58 PM roycroft: get rid of those horizontal braces and make them diagonal braces
09:58 PM LeelooMinai: Well, the CNC frame has 4 adjustable leveling legs
09:59 PM roycroft: triangulating it is to make it stiff
09:59 PM LeelooMinai: Right, those horizontal braces are lame - the main problem is they have only one bolt per side, so they do not really have any strength to hold perpendicularity.
10:00 PM roycroft: you can level it with the cnc frame
10:00 PM roycroft: put a diagonal member on each side, and one on the back of the stand
10:00 PM roycroft: use at least two bolts at each enf
10:00 PM roycroft: small diagonals on the upper front corners would also help
10:01 PM LeelooMinai: So triangulating is dividing rectangle into two triangles?
10:01 PM roycroft: or making any kind of triangles
10:01 PM LeelooMinai: I thought it was finding things with 3 radars, etc. :)
10:01 PM roycroft: rectangles = wobbly
10:01 PM roycroft: triangles = stiff
10:01 PM Tom_L: look at any type of structure
10:02 PM Tom_L: they will triangulate for stiffness
10:02 PM roycroft: take three toothpicks
10:02 PM roycroft: make a triangl
10:02 PM roycroft: e
10:02 PM roycroft: tie a string around each intersection
10:02 PM LeelooMinai: Right... easiest would be using those threded rods for diagonals, but no idea how to attach them at 45 deg to those legs...
10:02 PM roycroft: you won't be able to move it
10:02 PM roycroft: take four toothpicks
10:02 PM roycroft: make a rectangle
10:02 PM roycroft: do the same
10:02 PM roycroft: you can move it 180 degrees
10:02 PM roycroft: get rid of that wooden base
10:02 PM roycroft: wrap a frame around the top
10:03 PM roycroft: you don't need 45 degree angles
10:03 PM roycroft: you just need triangles
10:03 PM Tom_L: 45 is optimal though
10:03 PM roycroft: the angles don't really matter
10:03 PM roycroft: yes
10:03 PM roycroft: but just do something
10:03 PM roycroft: anything is better than that design :)
10:03 PM Tom_L: they _do_ matter
10:03 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: The wooden base is a remnant of when the stand was upside down - it was there so the whole thing did not tip on my bed...
10:04 PM roycroft: compared to rectangles the angles are not that big a deal, tom_l
10:04 PM roycroft: that's my point
10:04 PM roycroft: sure, if you take a member that's at 90 degrees and only move it 5 degrees you don't gain a lot of stiffness
10:04 PM roycroft: but move it 30 or 40 or 50 degrees and it will be a huge improvement
10:04 PM roycroft: sure, 45 degrees is optimal
10:05 PM roycroft: leeloominai: you really should go make some models and play with them
10:05 PM roycroft: toothpicks work ok, but are rather small
10:05 PM roycroft: soda straws also work well
10:05 PM roycroft: you can get tongue depressors made for craft work at any art supply or five and dime store
10:05 PM roycroft: those are great for modeling things
10:06 PM LeelooMinai: Right, no, I get the whole idea - you restrict degrees of freedom on joints.
10:06 PM LeelooMinai: Just thinking how can I do those 45 deg. connections.
10:06 PM roycroft: flat bar bolted on to the uprights would work
10:07 PM LeelooMinai: I guess I could use steel cable or something, but it works only for stretching.
10:07 PM roycroft: steel cable in tension would work
10:07 PM roycroft: criss cross them
10:07 PM LeelooMinai: And in th emiddle that thing, what it is called...
10:07 PM roycroft: so you have two on each side
10:07 PM roycroft: and one is always in tension
10:08 PM LeelooMinai: Turnbolt-thingy-no-clue-for-tensioning
10:08 PM roycroft: turnbuckle?
10:08 PM LeelooMinai: Right
10:09 PM roycroft: get some plywood, and make sides for the thing
10:09 PM roycroft: a rectangular piece of plywood is actually multiple triangles once you screw it into the uprights
10:09 PM LeelooMinai: I play to put steel pegboard on the sides at some point - so I can use it for tooling, etc. too.
10:09 PM roycroft: upper left, upper right, lower right screw make for a triangle
10:10 PM roycroft: plywood would also add mass to the stand
10:10 PM roycroft: mdf would add more mass in the same amount of space
10:10 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but...
10:11 PM roycroft: i need to head out and tend to the barbie now
10:12 PM roycroft: rethink your design and make it stiff :)
10:12 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, I just need to expand it a bit.
10:14 PM LeelooMinai: Inside there sitss the PC for linuxcnc, and I need access to the bottom of the CNC, so I have to be careful.
10:20 PM LeelooMinai: "barbie" food is probably not helathy:/
10:20 PM Tom_L: sure it is
10:21 PM LeelooMinai: I doubt it
10:21 PM Tom_L: just depends what you put on it
10:21 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:22 PM LeelooMinai: No, I mean the whole idea of burning stuff to heat food - probably produces some carciogenic stuff and you may end up eating it with food.
10:22 PM Tom_L: i'd be more concerned about all the plastic around us
10:23 PM LeelooMinai: Man, Canadian Tire annoys me - they have m5 nuts for example, price is $1.79 and no way of finding out what is that price for... One nut, package of some amount... lame.
10:24 PM roycroft: tom_l: i often simplify concepts to the point of being not entirely accurate, which in a channel full of engineers might not be a great idea at times :)
10:24 PM roycroft: i was not meaning to be contrary
10:25 PM LeelooMinai: lol @ full of engineers...
10:25 PM LeelooMinai: I think you overestimate how many real engineers may be here.
10:25 PM roycroft: there's more engineering talent than you would suspect here
10:26 PM roycroft: i don't define a "real engineer" by academic credentials or professional licenses
10:26 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe, but "full" sounds optimistic.
10:26 PM roycroft: i define one by knowledge and experience
10:28 PM roycroft: my dinner is not even remotely close to being burned, btw
10:29 PM roycroft: if anything, the salmon is almost undercooked
10:29 PM LeelooMinai: Either way - you die from cancer or bacteria - slow or semi-slow death:)
10:30 PM roycroft: i don't live my life trying to do whatever i can to avoid dying
10:31 PM roycroft: i live my life knowing i'll die some day, and hoping that day is far off, but enjoying the moment without without worrying about a future i do not know and cannot change
10:31 PM Tom_L: for example, that 'new car smell' is plastic giving off vapors you are breathing in
10:32 PM Tom_L: or glue etc
10:33 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure i eat a much healthier diet than the average american
10:33 PM roycroft: and i don't think grilling my food 3-4 times/week is going to kill me
10:33 PM LeelooMinai: That's not saying much:)
10:33 PM roycroft: cooking quickly over high heat is much different than charring
10:37 PM pcw_home: Charred vegetables seem to be relatively safe (not meat or fish though)
10:37 PM pcw_home: (LinuxCooks-N-Cooking)
10:37 PM roycroft: i don't really char anything
10:37 PM roycroft: sear, sure
10:37 PM roycroft: but searing is not charring
10:37 PM roycroft: i'm also of the belief that almost anything can kill you in excess
10:38 PM roycroft: but most things are ok in moderation
10:38 PM LeelooMinai: Well, name one thing that cannot kill you in excess:)
10:38 PM pcw_home: immortality?
10:38 PM ripple: good music
10:39 PM roycroft: if you grill a steak so it's jet black and you have to cut it up with a band saw then it's probably not a good idea to eat that 3x/day
10:39 PM LeelooMinai: I meant food:)
10:39 PM ripple: ohhhh, innapropiate joke .... insert here "....."
10:39 PM roycroft: apple seeds contain arsenic
10:40 PM roycroft: if you eat a lot of apple seeds you'll slowly poison yourself
10:40 PM ripple: as an engineer im going to say this depends on how quickly you eat them
10:41 PM LeelooMinai: You can die from drinking too much water, pretty sure one guy died because he drunk too much carrot juice and his liver gave up, etc.
10:42 PM ripple: eeep, I heard about this water drinking contest this lil town did for their yearly town fair days.... turned out bad
10:42 PM roycroft: if you eat at taco bell every day you could die of dehydration from the chronic diarrhea :)
10:42 PM LeelooMinai: I think the problem was it dilluted electrolytes to super-low levels.
10:42 PM roycroft: but that is not within the scope of the conversation
10:43 PM roycroft: you were discussing food
10:44 PM roycroft: and you could explode by eating an after dinner mint
10:44 PM LeelooMinai: I think Canadian Tire is doing something evil with those fasteners - they repackage them into smaller quantities or something:(
10:44 PM ripple: if you drink too much diet pepsi with your meal?