May 31 2017
12:42 AM Crom: hmm need to see of my cat 6 cables came in
02:28 AM Deejay: moin
02:58 AM Loetmichel: sooo, delivered the used engine replacement for my 318i convertible to my car mechanic... them three standing around my station wagons back and discussing how to get that M43B18 BMW engine out... $me: "ah, guys: i loaded that by hand with the help of the 80 year old seller... are you serious?" OSHA-Wimps these days... :-(
03:15 AM gcardinal: got my cnc finally moving yeasterday. with x and y homing at the same time and all the homing speeds setup correctly. very happy with how it goes :)
06:20 AM JT-Mobile: morning
06:21 AM Deejay: hey
06:22 AM XXCoder: hey the traveler
06:26 AM XXCoder: Crom: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ER11-48V-480W-High-speed-Air-cooled-Brushless-Engraver-Spindle-Motor-With-DC-Motor-Driver-52mm/32812425350.html
06:27 AM XXCoder: brushless... apparently. dunno the truth of this lol
06:28 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: looks like a brushless with sensors from the wiring... but that spindle is BS
06:28 AM Loetmichel: because the loooong shaft with the er11 collet
06:28 AM XXCoder: BS?
06:28 AM XXCoder: bullshit?
06:29 AM Loetmichel: thats usually only pressed onto a little 1/4" motor shaft thats not even hardened
06:29 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:29 AM Loetmichel: its good for engraving and thats about it
06:29 AM XXCoder: yea
06:29 AM Loetmichel: and serious milling and it chatters like crazy
06:29 AM Loetmichel: or even bends
06:30 AM XXCoder: yeah I dont stress mine too much
06:30 AM XXCoder: low sideload as possiblke
06:31 AM JT-Mobile: what's up this morning
06:33 AM XXCoder: not much
06:33 AM XXCoder: just got termosistor
06:34 AM XXCoder: will evenually finish printer and see if it works better
07:11 AM gcardinal: XXCoder I had that spindle for a while, works OK for wood and engraving
07:20 AM JT-Mobile-: off to Galveston see everyone this evening
07:48 AM Tom_L: JT-Mobile, if you take 610 around to Galveston it will save you alot of time
07:48 AM Tom_L: instead of taking 45 thru the middle
09:35 AM FinboySlick: Any of you smart cookies know how to design a one-way structural concrete slab? ;)
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: 'one-way' ?
09:36 AM FinboySlick: Supported along the two longer edges. Two-way is supported by columns.
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: put it on a slope, and pour oil on it?
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: ah
09:37 AM FinboySlick: It's one-way because it 'sags' in only one direction.
09:37 AM FinboySlick: So essentially, you take a 1ft slice of it and compute it as a beam.
09:37 AM SpeedEvil: In principle, yeah.
09:37 AM SpeedEvil: beam sag calculators, and stress/strain, to give you required preload to never hit tension.
09:38 AM FinboySlick: SpeedEvil: Seems you're already further ahead than I am.
09:39 AM SpeedEvil: you can also fake it with models
09:40 AM FinboySlick: I hadn't looked into preload yet. I'm spanning 12' on the short side so the 'standard' seems to be 6" thick for that kind of distance.
09:41 AM SpeedEvil: The basic idea is that concrete is very weak in tension, and even at that strength in tension risks cracks developing.
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: So, you take your beam, and work out the worst case loading on it, work out the tension on the bottom, and then prestress it with cables or other things so that the tension on the ottom is under zero in all cases.
09:42 AM FinboySlick: Yeah. From what I've managed to gather so far, structural rebar at the bottom helps mitigate the tension part, and you also need 'temperature' rebar crossing it.
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: (or in compression in other words)
09:43 AM SpeedEvil: A more important question may be 'what do applicable regulations require.
09:43 AM SpeedEvil: Because often you simply can't just use a provably structurally adequate structure simply if it does not comply with code(s)
09:44 AM FinboySlick: Code specifies a live load is 50lbs/ft²
09:44 AM SpeedEvil: Does it specify how you must achieve this?
09:45 AM SpeedEvil: What inspectors do you need to satisfy
09:45 AM FinboySlick: This is a home, so typically, the insurance company's.
09:46 AM FinboySlick: SpeedEvil: I'll obviously have a clipboard-carrier sign up on it, but I need to figure out how thick it will be so that I can accomodate the existing plans.
09:47 AM FinboySlick: And I'm hoping the engineer will charge less hours if the math is already done.
09:48 AM sync: unlikely
09:48 AM gregcnc: isn't he going to have to do the math to see it's correct?
09:48 AM sync: as he has the rerun your math
09:50 AM gregcnc: ICF construction or?
09:51 AM FinboySlick: Yeah.
09:51 AM gregcnc: how does price compare to traditional?
09:51 AM FinboySlick: If you do it yourself, better.
09:53 AM FinboySlick: Comes up, with all the extras to about $5.5CAN/sqft
09:53 AM FinboySlick: And I'm using the premium stuff.
09:54 AM FinboySlick: I'm just happy I'll have a proper space to put my tools in now.
09:55 AM gregcnc: isn't floor thickness in the prints?
09:56 AM FinboySlick: For the slabs on the ground, yes.
10:04 AM FinboySlick: I'm trying to accomodate extra space for the machines.
10:04 AM FinboySlick: So it requires a structural slab.
10:09 AM Jymmm: Single dimensional slab!
10:10 AM FinboySlick: Jymmm: That would be a tight space ;)
10:11 AM Jymmm: FinboySlick: It could be REALLY REALLLY REALLLY long though =)
10:12 AM FinboySlick: It's a bit early for paradox ;)
10:12 AM Jymmm: FinboySlick: String Theory FTW =)
10:13 AM Jymmm: FinboySlick: OH... spider web... tensile strength stronger than steel
10:14 AM FinboySlick: Jymmm: I don't think I could tame that many spiders in a month.
10:16 AM gonzo_: needs very small whips
10:16 AM Jymmm: FinboySlick: Not sure, maybe, used for making fish nets... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_silk#Human_uses
11:53 AM CaptHindsight: mobius slab if you need endless space
11:59 AM LeelooMinai: I wonder if I can bend 3mm steel 90 deg without, what are they called, a brake I think.
11:59 AM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Endless space... UP
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
12:30 PM MrSun: hi, anyone using hybrid servo drivers from leadshine ? ... trying to figure out how to reset errors without resetting the power to the driver .. else i need to have a button for each driver to cut the power to it
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: MrSun: what drives version you got
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: MrSun: there are lots of products so easy version brushed bruschless dvc ac
12:33 PM MrSun: HSS57 and HSS86 if thats what you mean
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: we need more iput also on SETup of your system
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: Mesa BOB
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: do you got enoph pins to hook up power disable
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: MrSun: the 57HS got 5 versions alone
12:35 PM MrSun: hmm, have to try if letting enable fall then do enable again to see if that resets .. if it does thats good enough .. havent tried them that much yet .. still building the cabinett for the machine but realized today when bench testing i had to cut the power to the drivers to reset the ALM signal from them
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: http://www.leadshine.com/category.aspx?type=products&category=servo-products
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: give me a idee on what is your hardware
12:41 PM MrSun: hmm says leadshine on them but do not find the HSS86 nor 57 at their place...
12:41 PM MrSun: https://www.jbcnc.se/images/datasheets/HSS86.pdf thats the datasheet on them that i can find
12:44 PM MrSun: jss-motors aparently is the maker of it
12:45 PM MrSun: same datasheet from them as the one i pasted
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: im reeding
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: MrSun: so why on the setup arent you just connecting a Relai 12V to the VC1
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: and simply disable it
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: it shoudt never fail if the setup is good
12:48 PM MrSun: IchGucksLive: ? if super position error .. the driver goes into ALM ..
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: aggree
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: so you first need to set the drive to the most comen values on dip
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: then without anything it shoudent fail
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: did you connect somthing to the Controller so the controller knowes the fail
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: most controller do ike to know on encoder values
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: like the 7i77
12:54 PM LeelooMinai: Well, to be realistic. It's clear that those hybrid drives with firmware, etc. are just new trend and they take over a lot of what linuxcnc likes to do by itself. A clash of different approaches.
12:57 PM greg__ is now known as GregB
12:57 PM GregB: Hey guys
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:57 PM GregB: I got a ULS 460, and I was wondering if anyone knew of where I could get a lense for it?
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: agree so it is best to just let them do and make a stepper setup
12:58 PM GregB: I don't mind paying money, but $150 for a lense, and $500 for he lense assembly seems a bit much to me.
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: GregB: best to go on that Q to the Laserfreek channel
12:59 PM MrSun: IchGucksLive: i will connect the alm to feed back to linuxcnc later
12:59 PM MrSun: so that the machine stops on error and does not try and continue on the other axes
12:59 PM LeelooMinai: Er, first I thought it's some "fake" video, but I think this is realll... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv7jud7mVbA
12:59 PM LeelooMinai: If so, that's pretty awsome:)
01:02 PM GregB: What channel is the laserFreek channel?
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: MrSun: thats most commen
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: MrSun: use Halui for that
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: and do a Mashine off
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: GregB: https://www.google.de/?gws_rd=ssl#q=laserfreek.net+ircchannel
01:25 PM FinboySlick: LeelooMinai: You can bend it, but you're more likely to do a nice job of it with a brake, especially if your bend is fairly wide.
01:26 PM LeelooMinai: Seems 4-5 inches - not sure yet if I should attempt it.
01:26 PM FinboySlick: LeelooMinai: Do you have a beefy vise?
01:26 PM archivist: or some heat
01:27 PM LeelooMinai: I have a decently-size one - not a monster, but still, 6 inches I think jaws and bolted to my bench in my room.
01:27 PM GregB: Any of those in english?
01:27 PM LeelooMinai: I also have 6 ton bottle jack, but did not think yet if I could somehow use it for this.
01:28 PM LeelooMinai: That's the vise: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16244280610/in/dateposted-public/
01:28 PM roycroft: what are you bending?
01:30 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Well, remember that u-channel legs from yesterday? I thought if instead of cutting them, I could cut triangle notches on the short edges and bend the ends to get better support and avoid hacksawing for whole day and dying from exchaution.
01:30 PM LeelooMinai: exhaustion*
01:30 PM roycroft: i am old and feeble
01:31 PM roycroft: i've said this before
01:31 PM roycroft: but i need to reemphasize it
01:31 PM roycroft: it would take me about 3 minutes to saw through one of thoe legs with a hacksaw
01:31 PM roycroft: it will take you longer to cut vee notches and bend the legs than it would take to just cut them off
01:32 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe I have wrong hacksaw or something:)
01:32 PM roycroft: or you need a new blade?
01:32 PM roycroft: and don't get a super fine blade for that, like 32tpi
01:32 PM roycroft: the material is 0.120" thick
01:33 PM roycroft: so 24tpi is what you need
01:33 PM roycroft: you should have 3 teeth in contact with the material at all times
01:34 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I guess the blade I have is not the best for this - it has zillion tiny teeth.
01:35 PM roycroft: go to the hardware store and get some 24tpi hacksaw blades
01:35 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: What do you think about cut-off blades though? I have whole box of them left by my father.
01:35 PM roycroft: you only need 1 for the project, but usually it's cheaper to get a set of 5 or so
01:35 PM LeelooMinai: I mean circular ones, that you put on an angle grinder.
01:35 PM roycroft: i think they're noisy and smelly and messy
01:35 PM LeelooMinai: lol, ok
01:35 PM roycroft: that said, they'll do the job
01:35 PM roycroft: but i'd use a hacksaw any day over one of those
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: I guess I should buy a set of blades anyway.
01:37 PM roycroft: on another note
01:37 PM roycroft: how strong is superglue?
01:37 PM roycroft: i see folks superglue things for turning all the time
01:37 PM roycroft: but usually smallish stuff
01:37 PM roycroft: let's say i turn an arbor to 1" in diameter
01:37 PM roycroft: and let's say i get a chunk of cast iron that's 8" in diameter and 3" thick
01:37 PM roycroft: and bore a 1" hole in it
01:38 PM roycroft: and superglue it to that 1" arbor
01:38 PM roycroft: am i going to be able to turn that big chunk of cast iron?
01:39 PM roycroft: would a 1-1/2" arbor work better?
01:39 PM archivist: are you going to get it off afterwards as well
01:39 PM roycroft: yes
01:39 PM roycroft: which is why i would use the superglue
01:39 PM roycroft: i'd heat it up later and remove it from the arbor
01:39 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:39 PM cradek: turn a taper and give it a tap
01:39 PM archivist: I have mounted on tapers too
01:40 PM cradek: also the right loctite might be better than superglue
01:40 PM archivist: some are designed for removal
01:40 PM roycroft: i could turn the shaft down a wee bit, so there's a shoulder, and thread it so i could hold the part on with a nut
01:40 PM cradek: yeah they give at a certain temperature
01:40 PM roycroft: this is for my chuck backing plate
01:41 PM roycroft: i need to turn a spud on the plate so i can mount it on the 3 jaw
01:41 PM cradek: can you just thread the plate too? that'll hold for sure
01:41 PM roycroft: yes, but that would be a waste of time
01:41 PM roycroft: well, it would be hard to do too
01:41 PM roycroft: no, i take that back
01:42 PM roycroft: i have a 1" tap
01:42 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know if it's me having a bad luck with "cheap" superglue or something, but I kind of banned it from my life - I hate this stuff:/
01:42 PM roycroft: but tapping a 1" hole 3" deep is a lot of work
01:42 PM archivist: first turn the spindle mount, only then when mounted on the spindle should you do the chuck mount
01:42 PM LeelooMinai: Never worked for my on anything somehow
01:42 PM roycroft: correct, archivist
01:42 PM roycroft: my plan is this:
01:43 PM roycroft: turn a spud on the blank on an arbor
01:43 PM roycroft: remove arbor
01:43 PM roycroft: grip blank via spud on 3 jaw
01:43 PM roycroft: turn spindle mount
01:43 PM LeelooMinai: İ saw NYC CNC guy mentioning that sometimes people use it to fix stock, but that it's risky.
01:43 PM roycroft: remove blank and chuck
01:43 PM roycroft: mount blank on spindle
01:43 PM roycroft: turn face and ege
01:43 PM roycroft: edge
01:43 PM archivist: you you have external jaws or a faceplate
01:43 PM roycroft: no, neither
01:44 PM roycroft: which is why i need to turn a spud first
01:44 PM roycroft: my 4 jaw has arrived, so i can get dimensions for the diameter and the chuck register
01:45 PM roycroft: now i need to start concening myself with the backing plate
01:45 PM roycroft: i'm still searching for some scrap cast iron drain piple
01:45 PM roycroft: pipe
01:45 PM roycroft: as i want to practice turning internal threads on scrap cast iron before i attempt the backing plate
01:48 PM roycroft: i'm still a bit confused about the backing plate
01:48 PM roycroft: the spindle register is pretty long on my lathe
01:48 PM roycroft: and the existing chuck spins all the way on until the backing plate hits the shoulder behind the register
01:49 PM Crom: you have a dog plate right? you can bolt your 4jaw to that to cut you back plate for the 4 jaw?
01:49 PM roycroft: i can get some 2-1/1"x8tpi backing plates partially finished
01:49 PM roycroft: no, i don't have a dog plate
01:49 PM roycroft: but they're not deep enough to go all the way back to the shoulder
01:49 PM roycroft: my spindle is 60mm, with a 65mm register
01:50 PM roycroft: but i could take a 2-1/4" backing plate and cut the threads deeper to fit the 60mm spindle
01:50 PM archivist: I am using the dog plate I got with my lorch for the 4 jaw :)
01:50 PM roycroft: 60mm is 2.362"
01:51 PM roycroft: i think there would be no problem opening up a 2.250" backing plate to 2.362"
01:51 PM roycroft: they're both 8tpi
01:51 PM Crom: I only have the 4jaw and it's backing plate
01:51 PM roycroft: and i could probably mount the partially-finished backing plate directly in the 3 jaw, and avoid the arbor and spud cutting part
01:52 PM roycroft: i think that should be good enough
01:52 PM roycroft: as long as the register bore is accurate it should line up
01:53 PM roycroft: and there would be a shoulder between the register bore and the threaded bore, so it would stop there
01:53 PM roycroft: am i missing something?
01:54 PM Crom: you'd have to line up the thread with your cutter
01:55 PM Crom: 8 TPI is 0.10825 thread deoth
01:55 PM roycroft: i can pick up a thread
01:55 PM roycroft: i've not done it in a long time, but i've done it
01:55 PM archivist: there are drawings on the net of various spindle node registers
01:55 PM roycroft: that said, i've only made one internal single point thread, ever
01:56 PM roycroft: but i'm going to get some pvc water pipe and practice on that before attempting the real part
01:56 PM archivist: I recommend linuxcnc for internal to a blind face
01:57 PM roycroft: what i was going to do is make a hand crank for the spindle
01:57 PM archivist: if you have a safety groove and auto knock off then it should be simple
01:57 PM roycroft: and run the thread up close to the shoulder
01:57 PM roycroft: turn off the lathe
01:57 PM Crom: so 60mm - (2*0.10825) turn the threads there so you have an ID of 54.5mm
01:57 PM roycroft: and hand crank it the rest of the way
01:58 PM roycroft: i'm also going to turn a spindle nose replica before making the backing plate
01:58 PM roycroft: so i can test the threading with it
01:58 PM archivist: motors dont stop quickly, learn about the safety groove or in your case pass through
01:59 PM Crom: that is a good idea...
01:59 PM roycroft: i know about safety grooves
01:59 PM roycroft: and i would calibrate how many revs it takes for the lathe to stop
01:59 PM roycroft: since this is not a 3 phase motor i can't do an instant stop
02:00 PM roycroft: it's a short enough thread and a coarse enough pitch that i could almost turn the whole thing by hand
02:00 PM archivist: generally chuck mounts are not to a shoulder so you can pass through if the tool is long enough
02:00 PM roycroft: the register is 65mm, and the threaded part is 60mm
02:01 PM roycroft: oh, yeah, so there would not be a shoulder on the threaded portion
02:01 PM archivist: so can pass through
02:01 PM Crom: I'm think of how many 0.010" passes I'd require... 200+
02:01 PM * roycroft was thinking backwards again
02:01 PM roycroft: crom: but the thread is mostly cut already
02:01 PM roycroft: if i just enlarge the 2-1/4"x8tpi thread
02:02 PM roycroft: i would bore to the larger minor diameter
02:02 PM roycroft: pick up the thread
02:02 PM roycroft: and keep cutting
02:02 PM Crom: turning it to 54.5mm ID will lessen the work cutting threads
02:02 PM roycroft: so a lot fewer passes
02:02 PM Crom: exactly
02:03 PM Crom: My slug is 3.9" 215 passes at 0.010 to get it to 1.75"
02:03 PM roycroft: but since i can bore through, there's no need to turn by hand and stop at any particular place
02:03 PM Crom: yep deepest cut my machine will do is 0.010"
02:04 PM roycroft: this all may wait a bit though
02:04 PM roycroft: i made a threaded part this past weekend
02:04 PM roycroft: and although it turned out acceptably, i wasn't really happy with it
02:04 PM roycroft: but the real issue was that the half nut was difficult to engage smoothly
02:05 PM roycroft: so i think there's going to be some work done on the apron
02:05 PM archivist: do you have a thread indicator on the apron
02:05 PM roycroft: and if i have to remove the apron to fix it i'll probably just end up stripping down the whole lathe, cleaning and repainting it, and refurbishing everything
02:05 PM roycroft: yes, i do
02:06 PM roycroft: with 8 marks, as is common
02:06 PM roycroft: the half not does not engage right on the marks - it engages after them
02:06 PM archivist: the how it feel does not matter too much do it well outside the part
02:07 PM roycroft: it's difficult to the point that sometimes i could not engage it when i wanted to
02:07 PM roycroft: and had to wait for the next mark to come around
02:07 PM archivist: as long as you are consistent, that's all that matters
02:07 PM roycroft: right
02:07 PM roycroft: but it should work more smoothly
02:07 PM archivist: you can move the carriage to find the point
02:07 PM roycroft: now my lead screw is 8tpi
02:08 PM roycroft: and the spindle thread is 8tpi
02:08 PM roycroft: so i can engage on any mark
02:08 PM roycroft: but i'd still rather engage when i want to and not have to wait for another mark
02:08 PM archivist: I tend to use the same mark and ignore rules of thumb
02:09 PM Crom: roycroft: on my thread indicator, I can lift it off the rail and turn it a tooth to get my line up
02:09 PM roycroft: that would be the most accurate, as it's the only way to guarantee you're running the exact same path every time
02:09 PM roycroft: yes, mine pivots on the apron
02:09 PM archivist: I just move the carriage up till it is on a mark, drop in
02:09 PM Crom: get my lines to line up
02:10 PM enleth: http://i.imgur.com/xhPYMby.jpg - anyone around now with an idea of what might be causing this? The 3 flats on the round pocket and the outer corner, perpendicular to Y axis
02:10 PM enleth: almost sure it's not a mechanical problem
02:10 PM enleth: and almost sure I could screw something up with PID tuning
02:12 PM Crom: can you run a spring pass?
02:12 PM archivist: a bit odd that it is not all the way round
02:12 PM Crom: Mine does that because of deflection
02:12 PM enleth: Crom: nothing changes
02:12 PM roycroft: could it be due to backlash?
02:12 PM roycroft: you're starting to change directions there
02:12 PM enleth: this is plywood on a bridgeport, I don't think deflection is a thing here
02:12 PM archivist: I was about to say deflection too
02:13 PM Crom: backlash then
02:13 PM archivist: but could be grain pull in bending the tool
02:14 PM enleth: there's a very distinctive "step" on the outer corner flat
02:14 PM archivist: climb v conventional as it goes around
02:14 PM roycroft: it's plywood though
02:14 PM enleth: as if Y stopped moving very abruptly
02:14 PM roycroft: grain should cancel itself out in each ply
02:14 PM greg__: haha, noone is in the laserfreak Room
02:14 PM roycroft: which would happen if there's backlahs, enleth
02:14 PM Crom: bet you a paper nickle it's backlash
02:14 PM archivist: but 2 artifacts not 4
02:15 PM enleth: I'll have to re-check it with an indicator, but when I reassembled this mill a year ago or so, there was no backlash to speak of on Y
02:15 PM roycroft: and if there's backlash with one axis there would be 2 artifacts
02:16 PM enleth: so I suspect a configuration problem
02:16 PM roycroft: but backlash on two axes would generate 4 artifacts
02:16 PM roycroft: i'll say this
02:16 PM enleth: like, the Y PID just deciding it's not worth going that extra last milimeter because the config lets it skip it
02:16 PM roycroft: it's easier to check for backlash with an indicator than to debug your configuration
02:16 PM roycroft: so i would check that first
02:16 PM roycroft: if only to eliminate it
02:16 PM greg__ is now known as GregB
02:17 PM archivist: enleth, also check for friction may have it too tight
02:17 PM Crom: is it still acme lead screws?
02:18 PM archivist: check ferror settings too
02:18 PM enleth: Crom: factory ballscrews
02:19 PM roycroft: the belts on my lathe are really worn and frayed
02:19 PM roycroft: so i've ordered this:
02:19 PM roycroft: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Power-Twist-V-Belt-5-8-x-2-m/T21993
02:19 PM Crom: still check backlash with an indicator
02:19 PM roycroft: i can make two belts out of that
02:19 PM roycroft: i'm hoping it will also elminate some vibration
02:20 PM enleth: I'll re-check the backlash, but I can move Y by tapping a single finger on the handwheel's handle and the last time I checked it, the indicator mounted on the knee and the DRO off of encoder on the motor gave consistent, backlash-free readings
02:20 PM Crom: roycroft: yep... I really need to get a leather belt going on mine again...
02:20 PM roycroft: also
02:20 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: What is this belt for...
02:20 PM roycroft: for my lathe, leeloominai
02:21 PM roycroft: and if i don't get a belt like that i need to remove the spindle to change the belts
02:21 PM roycroft: which i would prefer to avoid doing
02:21 PM LeelooMinai: I know, but is this supposed to be an actual belt to carry forces?
02:22 PM roycroft: my lathe has two belts, leeloominai: one for the motor, and the other for the speed change pulleys
02:22 PM Crom: LeelooMinai: yes...
02:22 PM roycroft: yes, that belt will carry all the driving force
02:22 PM roycroft: and is not only a lot easier to change, but it should absorb most of the motor vibration
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: I just don't get that "belt" - how on earth can it work - looks like some pieces of plastic interlocked together.
02:23 PM roycroft: the only drawback is that it's more expensive than conventinal v belts
02:23 PM roycroft: bits of rubber, actually
02:23 PM roycroft: but yes
02:23 PM roycroft: and everyone who has used them says they work very well
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: It does not even have any v-shape corss-section.
02:23 PM roycroft: much better than conventional belts
02:24 PM roycroft: i'm sure it's grabby enough
02:24 PM roycroft: i have zero concern that it will not work
02:24 PM roycroft: i just hope it absorbs vibration as much as i think it will
02:24 PM Crom: LeelooMinai: It does present a V profile
02:24 PM LeelooMinai: Well, not saying that it does not, just confused as to the design.
02:25 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: Not seeing it from that pic.
02:25 PM roycroft: does it do that when you start stretching it, crom?
02:25 PM LeelooMinai: I also wonder what that material is.
02:26 PM roycroft: polyester/urethane
02:26 PM roycroft: http://www.fennerdrives.com/powertwist-plus/_/PowerTwist-Drive-C/22/
02:26 PM enleth: it's one of those wacky-looking inventions that actually do work, like an omniwheel
02:27 PM _methods: ouch they really like their twist belt at grizzly i see
02:27 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I can see how it being made from pieces that one can just take apart with fingers is a huge benefit, but on the first look I would never guess it's a pulley belt.
02:28 PM _methods: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACCU-Link-Size-B-5-8-X-10-Adjustable-V-Belt-Adjustable-Link-Belt-Jason-B-/391765833338
02:28 PM roycroft: if they really liked them they would ship their products with them pre-installed
02:28 PM _methods: little cheaper on ebay
02:28 PM roycroft: yes, i see that now
02:28 PM roycroft: although i did look on ebay before i ordered
02:28 PM _methods: if you want to save a couple bucks
02:29 PM roycroft: oh well, i guess my ebay searchign skills were not good enough this time
02:29 PM _methods: bummer
02:29 PM roycroft: i'm usually a pretty good shopper
02:29 PM _methods: did you already receive it from grizzly?
02:29 PM LeelooMinai: They market it as a temporary replacement and throw in permanet, so, I don't know - I somehow doubt it's better than proper belt in the long run.
02:29 PM roycroft: no, but it will arrive tomorrow
02:30 PM _methods: send it back unopened
02:30 PM roycroft: i'm not going to send it back and pay a restocking fee plus postage
02:30 PM _methods: ah
02:30 PM _methods: ok
02:30 PM roycroft: i'll just know for the future
02:30 PM _methods: well probably not worth it over $20
02:30 PM roycroft: i did not know the other names for those belts
02:30 PM _methods: yeah there are like 5 different names i think
02:30 PM _methods: everyone patented their own twist lock style
02:30 PM roycroft: i did not search for accu-link
02:31 PM _methods: pretty much everyone that makes regular belts makes that stuff too just under different names
02:31 PM roycroft: i also ordered some other stuff from grizzly, and that spread out the shipping cost
02:31 PM roycroft: live and learn
02:31 PM roycroft: my table saw could use some new belts
02:32 PM _methods: well that's not too terrible of a lesson
02:32 PM _methods: i love those belts they are way quieter than regular belts
02:32 PM roycroft: i'll know to search for accu-link when the time comes
02:32 PM _methods: there may be even cheaper on ebay
02:32 PM _methods: i just saw that brand in that width
02:32 PM roycroft: honestly, not having to remove the spindle to change the belts is reason enough to get that type
02:33 PM roycroft: running more quietly and with less vibration are just bonuses
02:33 PM _methods: yep
02:33 PM Crom: Those belts were stock on some models of Sheldon lathes
02:33 PM LeelooMinai: Do they make those for cogged applications too?
02:33 PM _methods: https://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html
02:33 PM roycroft: my sheldon mill had brand new belts on it when i bought it
02:33 PM _methods: hell they even have it at bottom of the harbor
02:33 PM _methods: only 1/2" though
02:34 PM LeelooMinai: If they were so good, I guess the "maker people" would like them, since they are adjustable, but did not see them used in 3D printer contraptions, etc.
02:34 PM roycroft: yeah, but if i bought it at harbor freight my machine would smell like a chinese factor for six months
02:34 PM roycroft: anyway
02:34 PM roycroft: the belts on the seldon are really long
02:34 PM roycroft: and the spindle has to be removed to change them, which is a *lot* of work on that machine
02:34 PM roycroft: so whoever put the new belts on put four of them on instead of two
02:35 PM LeelooMinai: lol, I am just "seasoning" cheap vibration pads outside of the house, because they smelled so bad, that one could taste it (I am no kidding).
02:35 PM roycroft: intending, i'm sure, to just cut the two old ones off when the belts needed changing the next time and using the pre-strung spares
02:35 PM roycroft: i'm really wanting to get that mill working soon
02:36 PM roycroft: as soon as my lathe is dialed in and i have the new chuck mounted i'll start working on the mill
02:37 PM roycroft: it has a 3 phase motor already, but the motor linkage is missing (it used a mechanical variable speed control)
02:37 PM roycroft: so i'll just build a motor mount and get a vfd for it
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I don't think local Fastenal will give me account to order online - they sent me an email asking if I am a bussiness:/
02:37 PM roycroft: say "yes"
02:37 PM roycroft: and see what happens
02:38 PM LeelooMinai: E, did not want to like. I wrote that I am a hobbyist interested in machining/CNCs, but I don't have a car and wanted to order online.
02:38 PM roycroft: after seeing a mod to one of those 5c spin indexers that allows one to index arbitrary numbers of stops, i want to start making gears
02:38 PM roycroft: and i think the sheldon would be ideal for that
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: Wonder if they will just ignore me, or direct to HomeDepot, which has two M5 bolts and two M6 ones:)
02:39 PM roycroft: mcmaster-carr won't ship to canada?
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: I read some people asking that, and it seems iffy - seems over the years people kept complaining that they do not want to ship unless you jump some hoops.
02:40 PM roycroft: well
02:40 PM roycroft: go to mcmaster.com
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: Who would have thought that buying screws in Canada could be so complicated...
02:41 PM roycroft: make an order
02:41 PM roycroft: see what happens when you go to check out
02:41 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I have done that with many places. Forgot now what happend with that one, but pretty sure I had to abandon it.
02:43 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if someone lies and tells it's a bussiness, if that's punishable by law somwhow?
02:43 PM roycroft: not in this country
02:44 PM LeelooMinai: You see, and that's what you get for being honest.
02:50 PM Phiplii: open a business account?
02:50 PM Phiplii: at the bank
02:51 PM Phiplii: isn't too difficult here
02:51 PM LeelooMinai: Right, so still like, but now involve bank in it too:p
02:51 PM LeelooMinai: still lie*
02:52 PM Phiplii: don't have to be a registered business - because some people are self employed
02:52 PM Phiplii: even selling things on ebay is business
02:52 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm
02:52 PM Phiplii: it isn't a big deal... you just don't earn much ... :)
02:53 PM Phiplii: or get a mate to order
02:53 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I have tons of those - mates...
02:53 PM Phiplii: most of my family is self employed... got my brother to buy stuff for me from grumpy suppliers
02:54 PM Phiplii: :)
02:54 PM Phiplii: what bits are you after?
02:55 PM LeelooMinai: All sorts of metric bolts, washers, sometimes a bit more exotic ones, things like that.
02:56 PM greg__ is now known as GregB
02:56 PM LeelooMinai: For example, wanted to use bigger mounting screws for my rails, M6 instead of M5, but they must have low profile head.
02:57 PM LeelooMinai: And wider than normal preferebly.
02:57 PM LeelooMinai: preferably*
02:57 PM LeelooMinai: So, if I want something like this, I have a problem already here.
02:58 PM Phiplii: surely loads of places sell that stuff?
02:58 PM LeelooMinai: With to tall head it will just collide with bearing blocks.
02:58 PM Phiplii: RS?
02:58 PM LeelooMinai: I am in Canada.
02:59 PM LeelooMinai: And can only order online, since I don't even have a car, etc.
03:03 PM Phiplii: RS must exist in Canada?
03:03 PM MrSun: these drivers also has a PEND (Position end .. done with move) output, is that something linuxcnc can make use of ?
03:05 PM LeelooMinai: Phiplii: Hmm, must investigate them
03:05 PM LeelooMinai: I somehow thought RS is some lectronic site
03:05 PM LeelooMinai: electronics*
03:05 PM Phiplii: Do mechanical stuff too
03:05 PM Phiplii: is stuff mostly metric or imperial in Canada?
03:07 PM LeelooMinai: E, it's all messed up. In theory metric should be replacing imperial, but in practice all the parts are imperial.
03:07 PM LeelooMinai: All the screws are measured in in hes, wood, etc.:/
03:07 PM LeelooMinai: in inches*
03:09 PM Phiplii: metric stuff is usually similar
03:09 PM Phiplii: 25mm 50mm etc
03:09 PM LeelooMinai: lol, yes, similar enough to mess up a thread, etc;)
03:10 PM Phiplii: I was thinking material stock
03:11 PM LeelooMinai: Well, another thing with wood is that 2x4 does not really mean 2 by 4 anyways and with tubing there are other traps all over the place.
03:13 PM LeelooMinai: When I was doing air installation for my CNC, I was pretty confused - 1/4 inch connectors had nothing to do with 1/4 inch in any way I measured them:)
03:14 PM LeelooMinai: So by accident I think I got some 3/8 parts.
03:14 PM LeelooMinai: And they were huge.
03:16 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, RS "hardware" selection seems to be ortiented, not suprisingly, to mount electonics, electrical parts, etc. - lots of DIN rail hardware and things like that.
03:17 PM LeelooMinai: But see some hydraukics too - I guess it's in general "automation" oriented.
03:18 PM nubcake: Hi
03:19 PM Phiplii: LeelooMinai : they sell bolts and stuff trust me
03:20 PM Phiplii: evening nubcake
03:22 PM LeelooMinai: What exactly is the difference between a bolt and machine screw?
03:23 PM Phiplii: size and nothing
03:23 PM Phiplii: the boundaries are blurred
03:24 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, i think the original idea seems that bolt is inserted through some hole and fastened with a nut and screw goes into the material thread or something like that.
03:24 PM LeelooMinai: But I have seen bolts in screw cateogires, etc.
03:25 PM LeelooMinai: Also, "bolt" sounds kind of "heavier" to me.
03:25 PM Phiplii: Perhaps once, but no
03:26 PM Phiplii: because you can put an M50 in a threaded hole in a machine
03:26 PM Phiplii: and they are not screws... :)
03:27 PM LeelooMinai: Well, yes, but having something with thread you can do many things with it - like, I don't know, use it to saw a groove with it or something, but it does not make it a saw blade:)
03:35 PM roycroft: leeloominai: a bolt extends through the work and is secured by a nut
03:35 PM roycroft: a screw threads directly into the work and does not protrude through the other side
03:35 PM roycroft: that is the only difference between a bolt and a screw
03:35 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that's how I thought about it.
03:36 PM roycroft: a fastener can be used as either a bolt or a screw, depending on application
03:38 PM roycroft: now if the fastener is longer than the part, you thread the part, screw the fastener through the part, then attach a nut at the protruding end, i'm not sure if you would call the fastener a screw or a bolt at that point
03:39 PM roycroft: i would generally call it "why did not someone drill a clearance hole through this part instead of a threaded hole?"
03:41 PM JT-Mobile: hello from Galveston
03:41 PM roycroft: you've left san antonio?
03:42 PM Crom: At least your not in Houston proper
03:43 PM * roycroft thinks he'd go back to san antonio if he had to be in texas
03:47 PM JT-Mobile: we are in Galveston
03:48 PM Crom: I'd be near San Antonio like Bulverde off 281 north of SA
03:50 PM Crom: yuck... one of my tea bags opened... Mouth full of tea leaves
04:11 PM Deejay: gn8
04:25 PM Loetmichel: Crom: lear LEAVES? inside a tea bag? did you mean "tea dust"?
05:06 PM JT-Mobile: we left San Antonio this morning, stayed a few days on the riverwalk
05:06 PM Loetmichel: maaan. i would like to do a round trip thru the US... a few months or so.
05:07 PM Loetmichel: ... but i refuse to visit there as long as tourists are basically rightless to the HS and customs
05:07 PM LeelooMinai: Heh, I don't think RS will be my favourite place to shop. They have a lot of stuff, but I went to look at inductive sensors, saw some for $106 at the top and tried to sort with ascending price, but it was in ascending price:(
05:07 PM Loetmichel: and trump doesent make me feel more welcome
05:08 PM roycroft: he doesn't make me feel welcome either
05:08 PM roycroft: and this is my own country
05:08 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: RS is like a pharmacy. they have nearly everyting. but the prices are eyewatering... and they produce heaps pf packing material when the delivery arrives
05:09 PM JT-Mobile: RS?
05:09 PM Loetmichel: RS-components.com
05:09 PM JT-Mobile: hmm never visited there
05:10 PM roycroft: haha
05:10 PM LeelooMinai: I liked how French president trolled Trump - where he pretended he is going towards him to shake hands: it was kind of epic:)
05:10 PM roycroft: rs-components.com points to allied in the us
05:10 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, that place.
05:10 PM roycroft: back in the '60s, allied radio bought radio shack
05:10 PM roycroft: then tandy bought the merged company
05:11 PM roycroft: it was called allied radio shack for a while but tandy shortened it to radio shack
05:11 PM roycroft: now it's gone out of business
05:11 PM roycroft: it's kind of odd that an outfit called rs-components now points to allied electronics
05:12 PM roycroft: kind of a full circle thing
05:12 PM roycroft: tandy had spun the allied electronics stuff off after they started moving radio shack more to finished consumer goods
05:13 PM roycroft: leelominai: i can put up with a lot of the stupid trump antics
05:13 PM roycroft: on memorial day, though, when he was at arlington and they were playing the national anthem
05:13 PM roycroft: which in that context is a very somber thing
05:14 PM roycroft: trump was bouncing around and singing along like it was a baseball game
05:15 PM LeelooMinai: Well, at this point it doesn't take a psychologist to know how Trump thinks/behaves - he is just to arrogant and self-centered to register things that to a normal person are obvious.
05:17 PM LeelooMinai: And combined with him thinking that "he is like a smart person" and tons of other character flaws, at this point I started worrying that he will be there for long:)
05:18 PM LeelooMinai: I stopped*
05:19 PM roycroft: 1018 rod starts getting really expensive as the diameter increases :(
05:19 PM roycroft: i thought i had a chunk of 3" at home that i was going to use to make my spindle nose replica, but i found out it's only 2-1/4"
05:19 PM roycroft: i might make it out of aluminium instead
05:20 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: You can probably get it cheap, if you order few tons of it:)
05:20 PM roycroft: if i find the right piece at the scrap yard i'll get it cheap
05:20 PM roycroft: i need 2.625" diameter, and 6" long would probably be fine
05:53 PM phipli: RS is RadioSpares
05:53 PM phipli: not Radio Shack
05:53 PM phipli: we used to have both
05:54 PM phipli: but yes, it seems they are the same group as alliedelec.com
05:55 PM GregB is now known as Guest21591
05:55 PM roycroft: i didn't think it was the same company
05:55 PM roycroft: but the "rs" initials were rather ironic
05:55 PM phipli: Yeah bit of a name fail
05:56 PM phipli: They're a major supplier here - probably the main one for industry
05:56 PM phipli: really expensive, but will do things cheap if you order lots
05:56 PM phipli: what you're paying for is the huge stock they keep and the technical support
05:56 PM sync: their prices are about the same as all the other distributors for most stuff
05:57 PM phipli: they actually employ engineers to answer your questions
05:57 PM phipli: like... real engineers
05:58 PM phipli: sync - they didn't used to be, but then I don't use them much for home stuff
05:58 PM phipli: mind you, CPC prices took a step up a couple of years ago
05:58 PM phipli: or at least, all the cheap stuff vanished leaving only the premium stuff
05:59 PM phipli: the bulbs for the sitting room here used to be 30p each
05:59 PM phipli: suddenly they only sell versions that are £1.20...
05:59 PM phipli: :'(
06:03 PM Vitran: There was an awesome place near me called Active Surplus that had all the random circuitry and mechanical things you could ever want. It closed two years ago :(
06:04 PM LeelooMinai: Anyone used a "black oxide" kit?
06:04 PM phipli: We still have an independent electronics store in town
06:05 PM phipli: a rare thing. Quite cool. You see people going in with broken things and they sell them bits to fix it as well as advising how.
06:10 PM roycroft: our only electronics shop in town went out of business about 5 years ago
06:10 PM roycroft: it wasn't completely "independent"
06:10 PM roycroft: but it was part of a small chain of 4 stores that were only in our state
06:11 PM roycroft: now it's a 90 minute drive to the nearest electronics store
06:16 PM phipli: Proper shop : https://shopfrontelegy.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/rfpotts-derby-de1-5469_1200.jpg
06:16 PM phipli: http://www.cityofderby.co.uk/listing_images/RFPotts.jpg
06:16 PM Vitran: Neat video I came across. A home made water cutter using a pressure washer to cut aluminum and stuff. I am dreaming, but not thinking of making one. Too much going on atm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg__B6Ca3jc
06:16 PM phipli: blimey
06:17 PM Vitran: For electronics everything for me is digikey now. Next day delivery is too good. Don't know where I would get an old sound board if I wanted one now.
06:17 PM malcom2073: That's awesome Vitran
06:18 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: I saw that - thought it's pretty awsome.
06:18 PM phipli: it is
06:18 PM phipli: time to CNC it...
06:19 PM malcom2073: That'd be cheap as hell too, I'm gonna queue that to watch when I get home. How thick does he cut?
06:20 PM phipli: at least 4 or 5 mm Alu
06:20 PM LeelooMinai: He was cutting what seemed like 3mm or so alu there without problem at all.
06:20 PM phipli: :)
06:20 PM phipli: perhaps I'm overestimating
06:20 PM LeelooMinai: I guess it's a matter of pressure mostly.
06:21 PM phipli: they sped up the video with the thicker Alu
06:22 PM phipli: he says 1/8" Alu
06:22 PM LeelooMinai: Right, so 3mm or so
06:22 PM phipli: yeah
06:24 PM phipli: right.
06:24 PM phipli: anyhow. NN folks
06:29 PM malcom2073: That's thick enough to make it worth it
06:30 PM Vitran: It is likely very close to this
06:30 PM Vitran: https://www.wazer.com/
06:30 PM malcom2073: watching the video now, holy hell
06:30 PM malcom2073: Totally worth CNCing
06:30 PM Vitran: a small $5k watercutter
06:30 PM LeelooMinai: Well, when you think about it, you can probably cut much deeper, just will take more time.
06:31 PM malcom2073: And more spread
06:31 PM Vitran: The beam will spread
06:31 PM LeelooMinai: Well, not necessarily.
06:32 PM LeelooMinai: I mean, if you could design the nozzle narrow, you could drop it in z maybe, doing "multiple-pass" like "machining".
06:32 PM Vitran: You need the water to go somewhere
06:32 PM Vitran: It has to go through in one pass
06:33 PM malcom2073: wow and that's an electric, tiny one
06:33 PM malcom2073: They make much bigger electric pressure washers
06:33 PM Cromaglious_: using a pressure washer as a water jet?
06:33 PM Vitran: From the guys with the industrial ones, having the tip break is apparently a common problem work water cutting when the side of the tip hits the part
06:33 PM malcom2073: Yeah
06:33 PM LeelooMinai: Well, does it? :) I don't know, I mean normally it does, but if it "bounces" somewhere, it shoyld still work.
06:34 PM LeelooMinai: From what I understand it's mostly the little particles in water doing the cutting, so, as long as they hit, they will "machine" the material off.
06:35 PM Cromaglious_: mostly garnet
06:35 PM malcom2073: yeah, water cutting is actuall water abrasive cutting
06:35 PM Vitran: *dur. I screwed up that sentence. The side of the nozzle can snap
06:35 PM Vitran: That abrasive is why you can't water cut tensile samples. The abrasive bits are where the sample will fail
06:36 PM LeelooMinai: But, the styrofoam was done with just water... Which makes me wonder if water alone can take tiny amount of alu - then you would have a water mill:)
06:36 PM malcom2073: I doubt it, but it's worth trying
06:36 PM Vitran: You likely could, but the speed of the water needed would be insane
06:36 PM Vitran: Maybe in a vacuum you could do it?
06:36 PM malcom2073: in a vacuum the water wouldn't be water though :-P
06:37 PM Vitran: depends on how powerful a vacuum. The goal is to have the edge of the waterjet be traveling so fast that it is like a solid bandsaw
06:37 PM Vitran: Air will slow it down
06:38 PM LeelooMinai: I also wonder if anything can be cut with compressed air - I mean I am sure it can be, but to what extent.
06:39 PM Vitran: sandblasters are almost cutting with air
06:39 PM Vitran: but yes, you want just air
06:40 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that would be pretty clean way of doing maching...
06:40 PM LeelooMinai: But no idea if that's even remotelly practical in terms of pressure, etc.:)
06:42 PM roycroft: leeloominai: "water jet" machines are used for high precision part cutting of various materials, including stainless steel and other metals that are very hard
06:43 PM roycroft: it uses a high pressure water jet with a tiny amount of abrasive in it
06:43 PM roycroft: with the emphasis on "high pressure"
06:43 PM LeelooMinai: However, the good thing is that you need as thin cut as possible, so this works as an advantage, since all lies in the nozzle design (I guess), same as with water jet.
06:44 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Right, as in the video, the guy used pressure washer to cut 1/8 aluminum with sand.
06:44 PM LeelooMinai: But, I am just musing about air alone.
06:45 PM roycroft: i think it would take a long time with just air
06:45 PM LeelooMinai: Well, for home usage that's actually not a problem.
06:45 PM LeelooMinai: But advantages would outweight everything else pretty much.
06:45 PM roycroft: it would waste a lot of air
06:45 PM LeelooMinai: lol
06:46 PM roycroft: which costs money to produce under pressure
06:46 PM Vitran: From my pneumatic machines I designed, if you go above 60psi, you are pissing away energy to make that air pressure.
06:46 PM LeelooMinai: I don't think so - if you somehow mange to make a stream that is super-focused, you probably one worry about pressure.
06:46 PM Vitran: that was when I was making clinching machines
06:47 PM LeelooMinai: I mean about air volume required under pressure*
06:47 PM Vitran: I think speed of the air is the issue, not the pressure
06:47 PM LeelooMinai: Well, pressure translates into that speed.
06:47 PM roycroft: invent a machine that converts co2 into tiny diamonds and oxygen
06:47 PM roycroft: cut the material with the diamond-laden oxygen
06:48 PM roycroft: and solve the global climate change problem at the same time
06:48 PM Vitran: hehe
06:48 PM Vitran: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=107803
06:48 PM roycroft: elon musk will fund you
06:48 PM Vitran: An article on cutting without abrasives or water
06:48 PM Vitran: *sorry, discussion
06:48 PM LeelooMinai: "Mom: -- What was that noise!!? -- Nothing, just broke sound speed barrier with my machine, all under control!"
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I read yesterday that Musk said that if Tumpangutan gets US out of the Paris agreement (the one about polution,) he quits being on some advisory board or what it is.
06:49 PM roycroft: yes, musk will walk
06:50 PM roycroft: well
06:50 PM roycroft: he won't walk
06:50 PM Vitran: But what about the covfefe?
06:50 PM roycroft: he'll get in a tesla and have the car drive him home
06:50 PM malcom2073: Oh wow, that waterjet head? $1300
06:50 PM LeelooMinai: I guess he decided that yes, being on that board lets him at least to have some influence, but there are limits to working with Mr. Clueless":)
06:51 PM LeelooMinai: Also, I guess this just goes against all his visions about humanity, etc.
06:52 PM roycroft: it looks like the uk may be headed for a hung parliament
06:53 PM roycroft: which is astonishing, given that the tories were ahead by 20 points when may called the election
06:53 PM LeelooMinai: He is all about science as the only chance for the planet to survive, and the current goverment seems to do everything to rewind the country by at least a century.
06:53 PM Vitran: Came across something with cutting with air. Company made machines to sandblast with dry ice so it leaves a clean surface. You 'could' make a machine make dry ice and cut with that
06:53 PM roycroft: so there is some hope in the world
06:53 PM roycroft: and we'll survive this regime
06:53 PM roycroft: i've no doubt that we'll survive it
06:53 PM roycroft: how long it will take to undo the damage is the question
06:54 PM Vitran: What would happen if you froze water and sprayed it with air like a sandblaster but at much higher speeds?
06:54 PM roycroft: people would think it's christmas
06:54 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: Hmm, a bit of cheating, but makes sense - have crystals or what is it then "disappear".
06:54 PM malcom2073: Vitran: I've seen cleaners like that, they flash freeze the water mist coming out for cleaning
06:54 PM malcom2073: like the dry ice, but doesn't need the dry ice
06:55 PM malcom2073: So yeah, he's got like $2k in parts in that machine that uses a $150 power washer heh
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, googled and seems dried ice is CO2 and yes, it has crystaline structure, so good idea... sand the temperature part:)
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: sans*
06:57 PM malcom2073: I wonder how practical it would be to machien your own nozzle and save the 2 grand
06:57 PM LeelooMinai: Well, first step is checking if Chinese sell them cheap imo:)
06:57 PM malcom2073: Heh
06:59 PM roycroft: now that i have a halfway decent lathe i'll be able to make a lot of things like that that i used to have to buy
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: And seems that they have those, in some form: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20170531152833&SearchText=water+jet+cutting+nozzle
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know much about those jets though, so hard to say what is happening there.
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: The $136 one seems like something that could cut...
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: Rockwel-hardness: 96HRA, and some super-fine nano carbide or whatever:)
07:03 PM LeelooMinai: No idea if this is equivalent to what that guy used, but, from the diagram below looks like this is the "bussiness" part.
07:04 PM malcom2073: The venturi part is pretty key I would expect
07:04 PM malcom2073: Not just the nozzle and orifice
07:06 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know, but seems that one could cobble up something for the price of small CNC probably.
07:09 PM Vitran: Or buy the $5k prefab kit?
07:10 PM malcom2073: That's about 5 times the price of a small cnc heh
07:12 PM Vitran: This company: https://wardjet.com/products/waterjets/wardkit
07:12 PM Vitran: A DIY waterjet kit for only $69k!
07:12 PM Vitran: I remember when they had prices on their website. It was funny
07:13 PM sync: malcom2073: not very practical, but the venturi and nozzles are quite cheap
07:16 PM malcom2073: Cheap stuff isn't often practical in the professional sense of the word
07:18 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm
07:19 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if one could take this thing, connecto to a compressor and use for halding small parts with a "vaccum plate" or what they are called: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-Vacuum-generator-ABM5-2-2-ABM5-3-2-ABM5-4-2-ABM5-5-2/32789419933.html
07:19 PM LeelooMinai: for holding*
07:22 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, this one seems to be expensive, they have $10 ones too:)
07:27 PM LeelooMinai: I guess I could get one and see if it sucks
07:27 PM enleth: LeelooMinai: they work, but require insane amounts of air
07:28 PM enleth: fine for evacuating a vacuum chamber for resin casting, not so fine for holding something down continously
07:28 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I figured that they may be not the most efficent vaccum producers, but still, maybe it could be useful.
07:29 PM LeelooMinai: Aha, ok, maybe for small parts.
07:30 PM malcom2073: Very noisy too
07:31 PM LeelooMinai: I think you can connect little "muzzlers" to reduce noise.
07:32 PM LeelooMinai: I think I have one, but did not test it yet.
07:32 PM LeelooMinai: Because I discovered that my air fog system, or whatever it is (I use it only for air,) is not really that laud.
07:33 PM LeelooMinai: loud*
07:34 PM enleth: for me, it's mostly an issue of compressor wear and power consumption
07:34 PM Cromaglious_: I'd so get a oil bath vacuum pump
07:34 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm
07:34 PM enleth: I've got an old style single piston compressor, not very efficient on its own
07:35 PM enleth: with a vaccum generator, it would waste absurd amounts of power to produce relatively shitty vacuum
07:35 PM LeelooMinai: I somehow predict that oil bath vacuum punp = $$$$
07:36 PM enleth: again, it's just fine to remove air from a sealed vessel or other one-off uses, but sucks in a very figurative sense for continued use
07:37 PM Cromaglious_: I've also rigged vane pumps to pull vacuum as well.. The Air Horn compressor, I've JB Weld'ed a hose nozzle on the intake. it takes about 25 amps to run it, it pulls a pretty good vacuum
07:37 PM LeelooMinai: Right, hmm, not I remembered that I saw once in KBC catalogue something they sell that works probably like that Chinese thing.
07:37 PM LeelooMinai: But right, some proper pump would be nice, if one can get it cheap somehow.
07:37 PM enleth: LeelooMinai: look for old rotary vacuum pumps, they're usually cheap to refurbish and work like new afterwards
07:37 PM LeelooMinai: lol, 25 amps
07:37 PM Cromaglious_: 12vdc
07:37 PM Tom_L: https://jet.com/product/detail/43f8e161e6c742e7ab4740e7bf56c559?jcmp=pla:ggl:NJ_dur_Gen_Automotive_Parts_Accessories_a2:Automotive_Parts_Accessories_Automotive_Replacement_Parts_Air_Conditioning_Heating_a2:na:PLA_785913093_44722403887_pla-296051689092:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=785913093&is_retargeting=true&clickid=fff463b0-8c56-42bf-8ac7-aec0f32f7482
07:37 PM LeelooMinai: A, ok, I thought with mains:)
07:38 PM enleth: I've got a two stage japanese lab pump (really two pumps on a single base, sharing a motor), got it for free, paid a very decent sum for a professional to inspect and service it
07:38 PM LeelooMinai: Very impressive URL - too bad the site is slow or something and I don't see anything:p
07:40 PM Tom_L: https://jet.com/search?term=vaccuum%20pump
07:40 PM enleth: it's a pretty weird rotary pump as the housing rotates and the vane hub is stationary, the service guy said he's never seen a pump like that in person before, but otherwise works like a regular rotary vacuum pump
07:43 PM LeelooMinai: There seems to be a lot of vaccum pumps on amazon - not sure what one wants for a small vaccum table (say 30 by 30 cm). What is the most important spec? That Hg part?
07:44 PM Tom_L: if it doesn't suck, it sucks
07:45 PM LeelooMinai: Also, I wish someone explained to me why long time ago I was looking how to paint my steel angles, then oxidise them, and suddenly I am looking at vacuum pumps:(
07:45 PM Tom_L: do you chase butterflies too?
07:46 PM LeelooMinai: I probably have some condition that has name, but I just don't want to look it up:)
07:47 PM LeelooMinai: The Perpetual Researcher Syndrom or somethig
07:48 PM LeelooMinai: Or Re-Searcher
07:48 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, $99 for a gallon oxidising "kit".
07:49 PM LeelooMinai: A bit more than just buyng some cans of paint.
07:49 PM Tom_L: what's it for?
07:50 PM LeelooMinai: Nut seems it can be re-used for long time indefinitelly, by just adding more and more active part.
07:50 PM LeelooMinai: For making steel black-oxidised.
07:50 PM Tom_L: oh
07:50 PM LeelooMinai: You know, like on black bolts, etc.
07:50 PM Tom_L: that stuff that's banned in california
07:51 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know - this is some kind of environmentally friendly cold kit, maybe you think hot one.
07:51 PM LeelooMinai: https://www.caswellcanada.ca/black-oxide-kit.html
07:52 PM LeelooMinai: 600 too 1200 squae feet per gallon - so pretty much lifetime supply for a hobbyist.
07:53 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know:) Seems no one here uses it, so maybe it's a bad idea.
07:53 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: a shopvac can get to ~0.3 bar, and is often not a ridiculous choice
07:53 PM LeelooMinai: Those are noisy as hell though.
07:54 PM SpeedEvil: so are most vacuum pumps.
07:54 PM Tom_L: any vacuum pump is
07:54 PM LeelooMinai: Lies:)
07:55 PM Tom_L: mkay
07:55 PM LeelooMinai: You saw those glass bubbles they used/use to make vaccum and put on skin for medical purposes - are they noisy? :p
07:59 PM LeelooMinai: Also, I guess one could make vacuum by using some kind of cylinder and weighted piston - if you had very good seal on the vacuum table, in theory that should work (?)
07:59 PM LeelooMinai: Kind of a weird idea though...
08:00 PM LeelooMinai: I mean I remember when I was small I would play with a syring and make vacuum that could hold it attachet to the tongue, so... I have some empirical data even:)
08:00 PM Tom_L: you'll have leaks
08:01 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, maybe, I don't know - depends on the seals and the stock?
08:01 PM LeelooMinai: If you have oild gaskets it may be pretty minimal, no?
08:01 PM LeelooMinai: oiled*
08:04 PM Tom_L: hang a gallon tube full of water up high with a small drain in the bottom and an inlet in the top. use the inlet as your vacuum attach point
08:05 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that is another idea...
08:05 PM Tom_L: ( drain like a capillary tube )
08:05 PM LeelooMinai: Thought potentially more disasterous if you have a leak and flood your room:)
08:06 PM SpeedEvil: You can also start with a quiet brand of vacuum
08:26 PM Cromaglious_: or you plumb your shop for air and vacuum.. and put the vacuum pump somewhere you can't hear it
08:27 PM Cromaglious_: I've been wanting to run air and vacuum throughout my house for the last 10 years...
08:32 PM LeelooMinai: I already did that - my compressor is in the basement, I have tubes in walls and run cables and compressor hose through them to my room. And I can turn the compressor on/off with RF remote.
08:37 PM Cromaglious_: I have 45 minutes timers I was going to a common wire to all of them and use the pipe as a return for switching the 24v contactor
08:40 PM malcom2073: Cromaglious_: My dad did that recently so he could do engraving in his office, he's got a huge compressor out in the garage
08:40 PM malcom2073: it's pretty slick
08:42 PM Cromaglious_: Pops did it for Mumsie, air in the living room 5 walls, sewing room 3 outlets.. Switch is in the living room.
08:43 PM Cromaglious_: she has air line for blowing out sewing machines, air for running the air stapler.
08:43 PM malcom2073: Nice
08:43 PM Vitran: I got this old thing that has been sitting in my front lobby for the last two years. What vac table can I link to it? http://i.imgur.com/2oYApZo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EXuy3Hi.jpg
08:44 PM Vitran: It was one of twelve thrown out at the university. I salvaged this one and got it working, but don't know what to do with it
08:44 PM Vitran: it is a 1/4hp motor
08:45 PM SpeedEvil: Tehre is a non-negligible risk of the oil being contaminated by something 'fun'.
08:45 PM SpeedEvil: At the least, treat it like the exhaust is moderately toxic.
08:46 PM malcom2073: Yeah, I'd use a diaphram or some other oiless pump for a machine where it could possibly suck in things
08:46 PM SpeedEvil: From a dimensional analysis POV, a 200W motor can at most suck ~2l/sec
08:47 PM SpeedEvil: It's probably realistically half that.
08:47 PM SpeedEvil: So, 1l/sec
08:48 PM Vitran: I also have a turbomolecular pump
08:48 PM Vitran: but that is likely a worse idea
08:50 PM Vitran: http://i.imgur.com/dsJw1LC.jpg
08:51 PM LeelooMinai: A ballon and a hose into space.
08:52 PM malcom2073: wtf do you have a turbomolecular pump for?
08:52 PM Vitran: Long story
08:53 PM malcom2073: heh
08:53 PM jdh: I have several at work.
08:55 PM Vitran: I also have one of those with the heater and the oil that sprays a fine film to collect the particulates in the air....
08:56 PM Vitran: Mercury vacuum pump, that was it. Couldn't remember the name
08:56 PM Vitran: I have all the vacuum pumps I don't need
08:57 PM jdh: they are surprisingly unuseful
09:00 PM Cromaglious_: I have a vacuum pump, need a cap for the oil hose. I need to make a fitting to connect the hose to...
09:09 PM Cromaglious_: wooo this is similar to mine.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/7000-Watt-Silent-Diesel-Welding-Generator-Electric-Start-In-Stock-Miami/251340570720?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D7db7ae607a9a45c685517d1dc6675ad7%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D50%26sd%3D252443502421
09:10 PM Cromaglious_: I need to look at mine to see if I have the capability to do that with mine.
09:11 PM Cromaglious_: hmm different panel...
09:11 PM Cromaglious_: mine needs a starter though
09:50 PM LeelooMinai: What are those hydraulic presses used in metal shops? I can see something like this used to, I don't know, maybe place bearings or something like that, but for this I saw "arbors" i think.
10:04 PM dioz: what are you talking about?
10:05 PM LeelooMinai: What I wrote - metal frame + bottle jack -like thing at the top.
10:06 PM dioz: a press
10:07 PM roycroft: a big squeezer thing
10:07 PM LeelooMinai: I meant "what they are used for"
10:07 PM roycroft: they are used for squeezing things
10:07 PM dioz: fitting things inside things without a hammet
10:07 PM LeelooMinai: Well, that I figured out:)
10:07 PM dioz: hammet
10:07 PM LeelooMinai: Like what...
10:07 PM roycroft: installing a bearing on a shaft with an interference fit, for example
10:08 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that I know about, but anything else?
10:09 PM roycroft: anything that is hard to move that needs to be moved
10:10 PM roycroft: you can use it to punch holes in things if you have a punch and die
10:10 PM roycroft: you can use it for embossing things
10:10 PM LeelooMinai: O, you see, that's more interesting:)
10:10 PM Tom_L: LeelooMinai, my bud used his for broaching amongst other things
10:11 PM roycroft: if it's big enough you can weld things with it
10:11 PM LeelooMinai: Weld how...
10:11 PM roycroft: pressure welding
10:11 PM LeelooMinai: One can do that with metals?
10:11 PM roycroft: lay two sheets of metal on top of each other
10:11 PM roycroft: and push on them very very very very very very very very bery very hard
10:12 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, weird... Are you talking about some monster press, because I am talking like 12 ton ones.
10:12 PM roycroft: and i said "if it's big enough"
10:12 PM roycroft: implying it would have to be a lot bigger than that
10:13 PM roycroft: when you get mad at your cell phone you can make it a lot thinner than it used to be
10:14 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I know that part - ended up on "hydraulic press" youtube videos now and then - like anyone else probably:)
10:14 PM roycroft: if you're going on a really long hike you can make your lunch sandwiches a lot thinner, so you can carry more of them
10:15 PM LeelooMinai: That's an idea... New channel "Extreme Culinary Ideas With Hydraulic Press
10:16 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i'd want to use one for broaching
10:18 PM roycroft: i've not done much broaching, but my sense is that it's best to use a sensitive process, so an arbor press would make more sense
10:18 PM roycroft: and i'd say that's especially true when using shop made broaches
10:26 PM Cromaglious_: oh keyway broaching... I was thinking rotary broaching hex's or square holes...
10:28 PM roycroft: i don't own any broaches, but i figure i'll make a broaching tool for my lathe
10:28 PM roycroft: since most of what i'll ever need to broach will be things i can hold in the lathe chuck
10:28 PM Cromaglious_: I'd cnc my lathe before I do and keyways with it
10:28 PM Cromaglious_: s/and/any/
10:28 PM roycroft: i'm not planning on doing a cnc conversion of this lathe
10:29 PM LeelooMinai: I like to make my life complicated - took the stand apart and now I want the top to have only square tubing perimeter, so I can access the CNC table from underneath if I need to.
10:29 PM LeelooMinai: How to make a rectangle from steel square tubing - that's unknown yet:)
10:30 PM Tom_L: technically it is a rectangle
10:30 PM LeelooMinai: I am thinking something like this: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/2-x-2-x-1-8-in-square-hollow-steel-tubing/A-p8256810e
10:30 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it has rectangle cross-section, but I mean making 2 by 2 feet rectangle from it for my frame.
10:30 PM LeelooMinai: Instead of flate table surface.
10:31 PM LeelooMinai: Reason being that sometimes I will want to access bottom of the CNC table - there's a lot of mounting screws there,etc.
10:32 PM LeelooMinai: Seems to me though this is some kind of welding endeavour:/
10:32 PM roycroft: i built my lathe stand out of 2"x2"x0.120 square tubing
10:32 PM roycroft: and yes, i welded it up
10:33 PM LeelooMinai: When welding such a thing you would cut all 4 parts at 45 deg and weld them this way?
10:34 PM roycroft: yes, i cut the top frame members at 45 degrees
10:34 PM LeelooMinai: Or at 90 deg "primitive" way?
10:34 PM roycroft: and the butt welded the legs to the top frame
10:34 PM roycroft: some folks butt weld everything and weld caps on the ends
10:34 PM roycroft: it doesn't really matter
10:34 PM roycroft: if you want it to look pretty you grind it down anyway
10:35 PM LeelooMinai: Right, it may be a foolhardy plan for me though - maybe it can be made with bolts?
10:35 PM roycroft: it won't be nearly as rigid if it's bolted together
10:35 PM roycroft: but you can do it
10:37 PM roycroft: it would be easier to construct the frame out of 80/20 if you must bolt it together
10:38 PM LeelooMinai: It's not cheap.
10:40 PM LeelooMinai: Someone needs to make steel glue:)
10:40 PM roycroft: it's called "welding"
10:41 PM LeelooMinai: For that you need equipment and training, etc.
10:42 PM roycroft: car battery, jumper cables, coat hanger :)
10:43 PM LeelooMinai: That's "Indian style" - have seen it:)
10:43 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, there's a welding something in my basement... No idea what it is.
10:44 PM LeelooMinai: I will go there and take a pic - probably useless, but who knows...
10:52 PM LeelooMinai: Lookes pretty ancient, but was in the original box: http://i.imgur.com/lvfn7si.jpg
10:53 PM LeelooMinai: "arc welder"
10:53 PM Cromaglious_: cool.. lincoln buzz box
10:53 PM LeelooMinai: Is it sane for me to try to make use of it?
10:54 PM Cromaglious_: Is it adjustable?
10:54 PM LeelooMinai: No idea - adjustable how?
10:54 PM Cromaglious_: crank handle
10:55 PM Cromaglious_: I grew up using a miller buzz box with a crank handle on the front.. so you could change the amperage you were welding at
10:55 PM LeelooMinai: I did not see any handle.
10:56 PM LeelooMinai: The thing probably has like 15 years or more:/
10:57 PM Cromaglious_: My Pops miller is 50ish years old..
10:58 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, so, if I am clueless about welding, is there any point for me to research this further to weld that CNC stand, or it's not worth it?
10:59 PM Cromaglious_: ahhh it's fixed 50amp 25v
11:02 PM Cromaglious_: going home..
11:07 PM roycroft: that machine says "14ga max"
11:07 PM roycroft: it will work fine for that 2x2x0.120 tubing
11:07 PM roycroft: at full power you should be able to weld that tubing
11:08 PM roycroft: thin rod and two passes
11:08 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know...
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: Unless I read it wrong 14 gauge is much thinner - like half of 1/8
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: 5/64 inch
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: 2mm
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, and 1/7 is 3
11:09 PM LeelooMinai: 1/8
11:10 PM roycroft: yes, that's why i said two passes
11:10 PM roycroft: 14ga steel is 0.070" thick
11:10 PM roycroft: your tubing is 11ga - 0.120"
11:10 PM roycroft: you bevel the ends at 45 degrees
11:10 PM roycroft: and join them with two welding passes
11:10 PM roycroft: it will work
11:11 PM LeelooMinai: I had a look at some guy welding - looks like you just hold the stick and melt it with an arc...
11:11 PM LeelooMinai: What can go wrong:)
11:11 PM roycroft: that's essentially what you do
11:12 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but does completely new person have any chance of doing it right on the first project?
11:12 PM roycroft: practice on your cutoffs
11:13 PM roycroft: and have plenty of grinding wheels on hand
11:13 PM LeelooMinai: For what?
11:13 PM roycroft: for cleaning up your novice welds
11:14 PM LeelooMinai: Right... ok Well see what I think about this idea when I wake up tomorrow.
11:14 PM LeelooMinai: If I will still think it's a good plan or just lol at myself.
11:15 PM roycroft: welding is a useful sill
11:15 PM roycroft: skill
11:16 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know... Maybe, but so far I did not really need to weld anything...
11:16 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe if someone has a car, but still nowadays probably people just go to a mechanic with new ones.
11:17 PM LeelooMinai: Or if someone works in a rural area and has a lot of machines made from steel.
11:17 PM LeelooMinai: works/lives
11:17 PM LeelooMinai: City dwellers, less so:)
11:18 PM roycroft: i live in the city
11:18 PM LeelooMinai: Hobbyists and makers also not so much I imagine. Unless they make a robot for Robot Wars or something:)
11:18 PM roycroft: you have a welder
11:18 PM roycroft: you want a rigid steel stand for your cnc machine
11:19 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, actually, I now remember that there was a Lincoln place there that was providing help for fixing the robots between fights. Maybe it was the same Lincoln that that welder is.
11:19 PM roycroft: welding is a very good option for constructing such a stand
11:19 PM roycroft: lincoln electric are one of the major us-based welder manufacturers
11:20 PM LeelooMinai: Right, so probably it was the same company. Or matybe it was in Battlebots - those are in US, so more likely.
11:21 PM LeelooMinai: Is it even safe to weld in a basement though?
11:21 PM roycroft: it could be
11:22 PM roycroft: that's a tiny machine with a light duty cycle
11:22 PM roycroft: but if you are patient you should be able to weld up a stand out of that tubing with it
11:22 PM LeelooMinai: I may win a Darwin award for welding in a place with a lot of sawdust and a gas furnace:)
11:24 PM roycroft: the furnace should be no problem
11:24 PM roycroft: i would tidy up the basement before welding in it
11:24 PM roycroft: to get rid of the combustables
11:24 PM LeelooMinai: Right
11:25 PM roycroft: it would seem to me that if there is a welder in the basement, at some point someone welded in the basement, or intended to do so
11:26 PM roycroft: houses generally do not come with built-in welding gear
11:26 PM LeelooMinai: Right, my father, but I did not see it - I was in Poland then.
11:26 PM roycroft: watch some welding videos
11:26 PM roycroft: see how the sparks fly
11:27 PM roycroft: then assess the situation and determine whether it's safe to do so in your basement or not
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: Right, if I will attempt it, I will surely watch - I will not just go there and turn it on:)
11:27 PM roycroft: that welder is so small you can easily take out outside and weld in the back yard or patio or whatever
11:28 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, it's tiny
11:28 PM roycroft: you don't want to use welding rod larger than about 3mm with that
11:29 PM LeelooMinai: I think there were even some rods in the package in the box - probably some starter pack.
11:29 PM roycroft: you can bin them
11:29 PM LeelooMinai: Bin?
11:29 PM roycroft: throw them away
11:30 PM LeelooMinai: They get old?
11:30 PM roycroft: yes
11:30 PM LeelooMinai: Meh, ok
11:30 PM roycroft: you can try popping them in the oven to dry them out
11:30 PM roycroft: but likely they're useless
11:31 PM LeelooMinai: The whole thing may be useless, I don't even know:) But I will open it and check tomorrow maybe - at least I know electric/electronic side of it.
11:56 PM Crom: home