May 28 2017
12:01 AM LeelooMinai: lol @ my little nephew - he took one of those vibration dampeners and I ask him why he put it on his desk -- do you know what it is? -- Yes, a coaster.
12:53 AM archivist: I need some new scrapers, wearing mine out
12:54 AM archivist: they are very effective at taking rust off cast iron
12:55 AM LeelooMinai: What are they exactly? Some material like a file would have, but without pattern on them?
12:55 AM XXCoder: https://d3gqasl9vmjfd8.cloudfront.net/73619c87-15ce-4ac5-9a1f-b68cf47aa267.png
12:56 AM XXCoder: is it like cabinet scaper?
12:58 AM archivist: no cabinet scraper is soft and bendable sheet metal
12:58 AM LeelooMinai: Mine are still being delivered - not even sure what they are made of.
01:00 AM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: That picture reminds me about something I read in a puzzle book when I was like 10. Where they had a bridge, but to cross you had to make a statement. And if it was true, they would let you pass, but if it was false, they would kill you:)
01:00 AM archivist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-UK-ENGINEERS-HAND-SCRAPER-150-MM-6-INCH-FLAT-/132204090438
01:01 AM XXCoder: interesting, both
01:01 AM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: And the problem was one person that said "I will be killed" or something like that.
01:03 AM LeelooMinai: archivist: Ok, so... that looks like a chiesel to me:)
01:03 AM archivist: almost square flat end
01:04 AM LeelooMinai: And it's made from what?
01:04 AM archivist: has two cutting edges
01:04 AM archivist: carbon steel, there are some carbide ones available
01:04 AM LeelooMinai: From anti-iron probably.
01:05 AM LeelooMinai: deiron
01:06 AM XXCoder: its super screwdriver
01:07 AM LeelooMinai: Cannot one use a dremmel? :)
01:08 AM LeelooMinai: Why does it have to be a hand tool.
01:08 AM archivist: dremel would take too much
01:08 AM LeelooMinai: That depends what you attach to it...
01:08 AM archivist: you can be very delicate
01:09 AM archivist: I use dremels a lot, there is no way it replaces a scraper
01:09 AM LeelooMinai: Well, you can be delicate with a tooth bore too:)
01:09 AM LeelooMinai: archivist: By "dremel" I mean a dremel-like tool. Can be something more precise, like Proxxon.
01:10 AM archivist: proxxon is crap
01:11 AM LeelooMinai: Well, it's much better than Dremel.
01:11 AM archivist: not
01:11 AM LeelooMinai: Pff... Lies
01:12 AM LeelooMinai: I had both and Proxxon is clearly superior. Less runout, less vibration - it's just better tool.
01:13 AM archivist: look at the right http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2001/2001_07_13_Blacksmith_clock_hands/P1010116.JPG there is a groove hand engrave with a dremel
01:14 AM LeelooMinai: Ok, but what is it supposed to show?
01:15 AM LeelooMinai: I mean ok, you can do some things with Dremel, but it's not as precise tool as Proxxon.
01:15 AM archivist: dremel had the power and balance to do that, the proxbodge I tried was not up to it
01:15 AM LeelooMinai: Maybe it was not the proper model for what you are doing - they have a range of tools.
01:19 AM archivist: for me it is a matter of control when scraping, the ability to set the angle to adapt to the material
01:20 AM LeelooMinai: Well, ok, but I am sure that with proper tool and technique, one can surpass doing it "by hand".
01:21 AM archivist: have to train modern kidz that hand tools can surpass machine tools for certain work
01:21 AM LeelooMinai: Sorry, but that does not compute:p
01:22 AM LeelooMinai: You are still doing it by hand, just using a beter tool...
01:23 AM archivist: see original condition to finished, most of the flat surfaces were scraped http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=new+filing
01:24 AM archivist: so much faster and more delicate than a wire brush on a drill
01:24 AM archivist: for curved I do use a wire brush
01:27 AM archivist: I need to display times to show speed of scraping when derusting http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=harrison+pd
01:28 AM XXCoder: squarrel proof feeder apparently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F4k13Yx3w8
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: morning
01:31 AM XXCoder: hey
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: its getting a wounderfull summer day here in germany
02:12 AM IchGucksLive: till later
02:30 AM Deejay: moin
05:23 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:26 AM JT-Mobile-: morning
07:26 AM XXCoder: hey JT-Mobile-
07:26 AM XXCoder: how goes trip
07:26 AM XXCoder: hey JT-Mobile
07:26 AM JT-Mobile: good so far, raining right now
07:27 AM XXCoder: cool :)
07:29 AM JT-Mobile: heading for Waco today on the back roads
07:43 AM Tom_L: on a bike?
07:45 AM XXCoder: not that fancy
07:45 AM XXCoder: unicycle
07:45 AM XXCoder: seat wheel and pedals thats all he need
07:46 AM JT-Mobile: yea we are on the BlueWing
10:26 AM tiwake: if I have a set of G-code for a flat surface and want to engrave something that I know is pretty close to flat, but not quite... is there a nice way to probe the surface and automatically adjust Z for it?
10:26 AM archivist: yes
10:27 AM tiwake: within linuxCNC its self?
10:27 AM tiwake: or though some other thing?
10:27 AM archivist: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
10:29 AM tiwake: "needs serious testing" heh
10:30 AM archivist: I would say make sure your measuring area is greater than the working area so it avoids those mentioned boundaries
10:31 AM tiwake: I'm thinking in context of zippo lighter engraving
10:31 AM tiwake: but thats a little ways away still
10:32 AM archivist: as that is very unflat I would rotate the lighter
10:33 AM tiwake: ..?
10:34 AM archivist: lighters in general are all sorts of shapes
10:34 AM tiwake: oh
10:34 AM tiwake: zippo lighters are pretty flat... kinda... supposed to be anyway
10:35 AM archivist: for all I know that is a brand not a shape
10:35 AM tiwake: they are all the same basic shape
10:36 AM tiwake: https://www.zippo.com/
10:37 AM archivist: "It should be noted that the type 1 box is a different shape to the others"
10:37 AM tiwake: ..?
10:47 AM LeelooMinai: If ther's z-axis, no need to rotate it, no? One would just use the lighter model in the CAM, or even better, map the surface each time befor engraving.
10:53 AM LeelooMinai: tiwake: You can do super-low tech probing if the lighter body is conductive - since you can just use metalic probe and look for shorts.
11:41 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, found a 2cm (3/4 inch) slab of what seems like marble or some other stone in the basement. Not sure if I can use it for anything useful. Thought of putting it on my CNC stand, since it has only 2mm steel sheet on the top, but not sure if it would do anything, except probably breaking in half:)
11:42 AM archivist: cheap surface plate
11:43 AM archivist: may well be anything but flat though
11:43 AM LeelooMinai: O doubt it is flat. Also, from what I have seen surface plates are pretty thick - even my baby one (9x12) is 3 inch thick.
11:43 AM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: 2cm of damn near anything - including wood - is stiffer than a flat sheet of steel.
11:43 AM SpeedEvil: ^2mm
11:44 AM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: Yes, that top worries me - it's not a big area though, 2 by 2 feet and it's welded to 4 legs and some bertical supports.
11:44 AM LeelooMinai: vertical*
11:45 AM LeelooMinai: I am reassembling my CNC and making improvements, so I will have a chance of doing something to the stand, but do not have clear plan yet.
11:46 AM LeelooMinai: You can see the top of the stand here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16272619078/in/dateposted-public/
11:47 AM SpeedEvil: Where does '2mm' come in there.
11:47 AM SpeedEvil: the extrusion is going to be several orders of magnitude stiffer
11:48 AM LeelooMinai: I have 4 legs there on the frame and steel angles, but not sure now. I ordered 4 more legs, but now I am thinking that maybe I should put something on top of the stand, level it ideally, and put the frame directly on it, without those adjustable legs.
11:48 AM SpeedEvil: ah
11:48 AM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: 2mm or so is the sheet metal - well, it maybe be more.
11:49 AM LeelooMinai: The legs are putting force more or less where the legs are, so it's not as bad as it seems, but still.
11:50 AM LeelooMinai: Now I also think that maybe puring concrete over the legs and making a base for the stand is not as outrageous idea:)
11:51 AM LeelooMinai: Sans me sleeping in a place where concrete cures for weeks...
11:52 AM SpeedEvil: Concrete cures in a day or three, and doesn't really emit any fumes.
11:52 AM SpeedEvil: Also, you can cover itcompletely in airtight plastic
11:54 AM LeelooMinai: I kind of keep bouncing between ideas about this stand. Not entirely sure what matters most. If I make it rigid, like a torsion box or something is that good enough... Do I want heavy and flat top... Heavy base... Isolated stand with anti-vibration pads... CNC frame with adjustable legs or frame directly on top...
11:54 AM * SpeedEvil idly wonders of the flatness of concrete poured on a surface plate with a cling-film/oil barrier
11:54 AM LeelooMinai: I am confused:)
11:54 AM roycroft: or concrete cures in a few decades
11:54 AM roycroft: depends on how much you pour :)
11:54 AM SpeedEvil: Concrete is not set by absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere. That is a different thing, whichmakes its properties worse.
11:55 AM SpeedEvil: Concrete heat generation is a limit for very large pours. Up to the point for large pours you can need cooling.
11:56 AM LeelooMinai: From what I read it's a process that realases heat and you are supposed to cover it with something, so the moisture does not disappear too rapidly.
11:56 AM roycroft: try to avoid hop heavy, leeloominai
11:56 AM roycroft: a top heavy machine/stand combination would tend to accentuate, not dampen, any vibration
11:57 AM SpeedEvil: Yes, you want to carefully monitor the moisture content. As long as everything is void-free, at pour time, less water is always better.
11:57 AM SpeedEvil: Which of course means that for high strength stuff you're on the edge of water evaporating and leaving voids, leading to weakness on the surface
11:58 AM SpeedEvil: roycroft: Well, vibration varies, and some frequencies you may not care about vibration at.
11:58 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm... I saw they have pre-mixed bags - that's probably the best way in this case as I am not building a scryscraper.
11:58 AM LeelooMinai: sky*
11:59 AM roycroft: i said "tend", making that statement a generality
11:59 AM LeelooMinai: But if I tell my mom "ok, I am going to pour concrete in my room now", she will send my to a mental asylum.
11:59 AM roycroft: leeloominai said she's considering a top heavy design and a bottom heavy design
12:00 PM SpeedEvil: pre-mixed bags are a reasonable solution.
12:00 PM roycroft: i'd build a rigid stand and put the center of gravity towards the bottom
12:00 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it was more about having flat and thick surface under the frame more about top-heavy.
12:00 PM LeelooMinai: I don't want the whole stand + CNC fall on my bed when I sleep...
12:01 PM LeelooMinai: That would probably be unpleasant:)
12:01 PM roycroft: you can buy a surface plate, put it on a stand, and put your machine on the surface plate
12:01 PM roycroft: no concrete involved there
12:02 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I had a thought like that + maybe using epoxy between the plate and the metal sheet to spread the forces better.
12:02 PM roycroft: just tell your mom you're going to haul a big chunk of grainte into your room
12:02 PM roycroft: granite
12:02 PM LeelooMinai: But, you know how much 2 by 2 feet surface plate weights? It's monstrous:)
12:02 PM roycroft: i thought that's what you wanted
12:02 PM archivist: check maximum floor loading
12:02 PM roycroft: a lare amount of mass
12:03 PM roycroft: i believe she's going to install a pillar below her machine in the basement, extending down to bedrock
12:03 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, I want probably nice flat top, but those surface plates have ridiculous weights.
12:03 PM SpeedEvil: A couple of hundred kilos is probably reasonable pretty much anywhere
12:03 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: lol, yes, that's the ultimate solution:)
12:03 PM SpeedEvil: it's just a normal american standing on the floor.
12:04 PM LeelooMinai: lol, just checked 240 punds
12:04 PM archivist: a normal american couple on a water bed
12:04 PM SpeedEvil: More seriously.
12:05 PM SpeedEvil: A concrete construction tile will be very rigid and stable, and you can shim the machine flat if it's not very flat
12:05 PM roycroft: 240lbs is an average person in some parts of the us, not an average couple
12:05 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: Tile?
12:05 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Marshalls-Richmond-600-x-600-x-38mm-Single---Natural/p/144651?CAWELAID=120135120001216187&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=37524966532&CATCI=pla-193347850852&gclid=CLvl48mCk9QCFakW0wodJG8OFw&gclsrc=aw.ds
12:06 PM roycroft: leeloominai: people make kitchen counters out of concrete all the time
12:06 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm...
12:06 PM roycroft: so pouring concrete inside the house is not that unusual a thing
12:06 PM SpeedEvil: Also cheap, which is nice.
12:06 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I know, researched it once even.
12:07 PM SpeedEvil: I did concrete in the oven once, worked well.
12:07 PM SpeedEvil: Silicone mold, 80C, made with boiling water, for little sculptures.
12:07 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: But went with ikea countertop - it's beautiful (walnut layer over some dense particle core) and cheap.
12:07 PM SpeedEvil: Cured _fast_ even unaccellerated.
12:09 PM LeelooMinai: http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/10331472/ <- they need some care, but they are very good looking, so I can recommend this if there's no children and mental people in the house using knifes directly on the countertop:)
12:09 PM SpeedEvil: neat
12:09 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but anyways, I need to research those slab things.
12:10 PM LeelooMinai: (I put polyurethane layer on that countertop - to make it a bit less fragile, but it's optional)
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: Those concrete tiles make a much less expensive countertop, and have an industrial asthetic.
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: (not really)
12:12 PM LeelooMinai: lol, right. Well, to be fair, from what I saw, concrete counter-tops can look nice too - depends what you mix into them and how well you finish them later, polish, etc.
12:13 PM LeelooMinai: They definitelly do not look like inside of a parking lot in a building:)
12:13 PM SpeedEvil: yeah. Concrete is ridiculously variable.
12:14 PM LeelooMinai: I mean, this is pretty nice for example: http://www.countertopguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Acid-Stained-Concrete.jpg
12:14 PM LeelooMinai: It's like a natural stone more or less in looks.
12:15 PM LeelooMinai: But you can pur it in place, so cost can be much lower.
12:15 PM LeelooMinai: pour*
12:15 PM SpeedEvil: Or you can do random assorted aggregates, coloured matrix, and then polishflat to expose it
12:16 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I saw people using epoxys and all sorts of weird stuff. I decided not to go tha way, since seemed to me that this is one of those things you get right with experience, and not the first time:)
12:16 PM roycroft: epoxy is easy to use
12:16 PM roycroft: just follow the directions
12:17 PM roycroft: but concrete is a lot less expensive than epoxy
12:17 PM SpeedEvil: I was idly wondering about crushed mostly clear glass, coated in a thin film of clear epoxy, and then pressed into a mold, with a glass plate on top.
12:18 PM LeelooMinai: Risky bussiness imo - that's why I just got those Ikea countertops - no chance of failure:) Only needed to make a hole for the sink, but that was not too difficult.
12:20 PM LeelooMinai: I guess for the top of the CNC stand some cast iron plate would be nice too, but for me it's unobtanium...
12:20 PM LeelooMinai: And I am not making a forge to make it.
12:22 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm
12:23 PM LeelooMinai: I see they also make granite tiles that are pretty big for countertops
12:23 PM * jym hands LeelooMinai an easy-bake-oven (and spare lightbulb)
12:23 PM roycroft: hmm, the uk election is tightening up
12:23 PM roycroft: the labour-torey gap is down to six points
12:23 PM jym: cradek: got a sec? I have a postscript question for ya.
12:24 PM LeelooMinai: Don't tell me UK is following the trend and have some "controversial" candidates too.
12:25 PM SpeedEvil: What do you mean.
12:25 PM LeelooMinai: Who, me?
12:25 PM archivist: shame Screaming Lord Such is no longer with us to vote for
12:25 PM SpeedEvil: This current election was specifically called because there was no clear candidate for the opposition party at this time.
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: The current leader of the labour party stands essentially no hope whatsoever of getting popular support.
12:26 PM LeelooMinai: I was just saying that after US election, there was weird France one, etc., so was worried that UK is going the absurd route too.
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: I would argue 'brexit' is absurd.
12:27 PM SpeedEvil: Deciding stuff on idealogical basis, with no grounding in fact or maths isn't a great idea.
12:27 PM LeelooMinai: Isn't it UK leavinf the EU though? Not really well-versed in anything outside US catastrophe now:)
12:28 PM Deejay: hehe
12:28 PM Deejay: the idea was noble... ;)
12:28 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: 'yes'. It has initiated the process of leaving the EU. Without a sane negotiating position.
12:29 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that was probably super-complex issue in terms of economics and tons of other stuff.
12:29 PM SpeedEvil: And with the vote being conducted with a large fraction of the 'yes' voters believing both that there was a plan (there was not), and numerous falsehoods about the case.
12:29 PM SpeedEvil: For example, reporting that 'we send $x a day to the EU' - and neglecting the $y a day that comes the other way due to rebates and subsidies.
12:30 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: Did they also make $2 trillion mistake, like the US budget people? :)
12:30 PM SpeedEvil: Basically.
12:30 PM SpeedEvil: Though they diddn't really get as far as anything costed other than inaccurate headlines.
12:31 PM SpeedEvil: Everyone sort of implicitly assumed on the 'yes' side (to leave) that there was some planning that had been done. There hadn't - it was almost entirely napkin based, ideology driven.
12:31 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I don't get all of this politics stuff - it's all out of control in my eyes and kinf of hopeless. No one seems to care about even basic accounting:)
12:32 PM SpeedEvil: (the no side also failed utterly to make a sane campaign)
12:32 PM LeelooMinai: No idea how countries are supposed to work with all those crazy people getting control.
12:33 PM LeelooMinai: And the US case is just mind-melting. Like they putting people there are agains enviroment protection in charge of the environment protection agencies, etc.
12:34 PM LeelooMinai: It's like watching group of lemmings walking towards a chasm and screaming "No, don't do that" and they put their fingers into ears and sing "lalalala":/
12:34 PM SpeedEvil: Currently watching the car-crash that is NIH/CDC funding for my disease. Deeply unpleasant.
12:34 PM roycroft: it's simple: it's all about winning, not governing
12:34 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
12:35 PM * SpeedEvil ponders glass composite showers.
12:35 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: I thought that in UK health-care is much more sane than in US, no?
12:35 PM SpeedEvil: LeelooMinai: research in the UK is limited due to obvious population disparities (and unfortunate issues), so much research into medical conditions happens in the USA.
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: A number of diseases are only now being tackled by fascinating advances in tech.
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: Until recently, it was simply impossible to take a blood sample, and look at 'all' the proteins in it, for example.
12:37 PM SpeedEvil: mass spectrometry for proteins has vastly altered that, and DNA sequencing, with analysis of turned on genes is enormously powerful.
12:38 PM SpeedEvil: Today a USB stick for $1K will do complete sequencing of viruses at home,where in the past each virus might take years to sequence.
12:38 PM LeelooMinai: Right, but all of this is expensive.
12:38 PM SpeedEvil: It depends. Not treating people is also expensive.
12:39 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I read once an article abotu DN sequencing and the price went down drastically, but it's till not for poor people.
12:39 PM roycroft: what's expensive is giving all your money to insurance companies for nothing
12:39 PM roycroft: i've paid over $125,000 in health insurance premiums over the years
12:39 PM roycroft: i rarely need medical attention
12:39 PM SpeedEvil: Both in direct costs of lack of taxation revenue from them, reduced productivity of carers, or ...
12:39 PM roycroft: yet when i do, my claims get denied or reduced every time
12:39 PM SpeedEvil: As well as welfare.
12:40 PM roycroft: i've basically just pissed all that money away
12:40 PM LeelooMinai: I think I ended up there after watchink mikeselectric looking inside some DNA sequencer - apparently a lot of cost is in the "materials" used, so when they change technology, all those once-expensive sequencers are no longer viable for companies and they get rid of them.
12:41 PM t12: the thing with sequencing as a diagnostic tool
12:41 PM SpeedEvil: It varies - costs are coming down enormously. You can get a complete genome sequence for an individual at $1K
12:41 PM t12: is that it takes a pretty intense amount of r&d to make the results actually FDA passable
12:41 PM SpeedEvil: (this may not actually be particularly useful clinically)
12:41 PM roycroft: but very useful for denying people jobs or health care basedon on pre-existing genes
12:42 PM t12: also the $1k per human genome is a weird illumina subsidy
12:43 PM SpeedEvil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1,000_genome - yes.
12:43 PM SpeedEvil: It's not quite at $1K yes
12:43 PM t12: the utility of a full genome sequence for disease isnt really clear either
12:43 PM SpeedEvil: Or is,depending on who you ask. But it's probably not $10K.
12:44 PM SpeedEvil: Quite, it was an example of changes in tech - it's primarily a boon to research.
12:44 PM t12: theres a bunch of methods that use a sequencer as a part of a greater diagnostics chain, but thats not human genome sequencing
12:44 PM SpeedEvil: Where you can rule out that a disease state is caused genetically.
12:44 PM t12: and you're more or less paying to support a company to do the research to make that work in those cases
12:45 PM t12: the cancer people love to talk about how if they have all the cancer genetics they'll be able to make some magic drug to personalize treatment
12:46 PM t12: but getting from data -> personalized treatment is the undefined part of that
12:46 PM t12: that i dont think has really proved out except for some research cases and rich people
12:47 PM SpeedEvil: Quite. Similar to in CFS, there is clearly a mitochondrial defect, it's clearly caused by a factor in the blood, there are lots of disrupted gene expression rates andproteins and morphological changes, but going from that to 'Oh -it's caused by X' or finding druggable targets is a whole different thing.
12:47 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, that is all nice, but, what worries me, that technology improves, but accessibility do it to people around the world has crazy range. When I was small and naive I thought that with time people will figure out how to take care of the globe, use tech in smart way, gradually improving living conditions for everyone, etc. Now I see that overpopulation increases and instead of some gradual improvement, there's more and more
12:47 PM LeelooMinai: insanity and a good chance it will end up in catastrophe:)
12:48 PM t12: uneven distribution of technology in all fields is sorta
12:48 PM t12: part of the human condition
12:48 PM t12: its not new or going away
12:48 PM LeelooMinai: It's getting worse and worse though - at least distribution of wealth.
12:49 PM SpeedEvil: A huge slice of stuff attributed to 'medicine' is basically soap, housing, and social change plus diet.
12:49 PM SpeedEvil: If you can get people to wear shoes, eat reasonable amounts of food and wash their hands before a meal, you wipe out a hell of a lot of mortality.
12:50 PM roycroft: one of the problems with food is that it's ultra-processed these days
12:50 PM t12: wait you mean hundred dollar green laptops for africa isnt world changing?
12:50 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, but they they get stupid, have 8 children and so on and on.
12:50 PM roycroft: almost all the nutrition is removed from it, and the dregs are packaged and sold to poor people
12:50 PM roycroft: who cannot afford nutritious food
12:51 PM roycroft: hell, they don't even have access to it in many places
12:51 PM t12: i get the sense that its not so much nutrition thats a 3rd world problem as raw lack of calories
12:51 PM roycroft: i spent a month living in washington, dc a few years ago (my gf at the time was working there)
12:51 PM roycroft: what really shocked me is that in the poor neighborhoods there were no supermarkets at all
12:51 PM roycroft: none
12:51 PM t12: which in itself is more of a logistics problem
12:51 PM roycroft: there were just convenience stores
12:52 PM roycroft: so people would go buy doritos and kraft dinner at outrageous prices
12:52 PM LeelooMinai: I am not for some unethical and morally-questionable population control, but seems to me that someone should think about how this will all end up. I mean huge overpopulation + uneven distribution of wealth = nothing good.
12:52 PM t12: i'm with musk
12:52 PM t12: move into space somewhere else
12:52 PM t12: if you want to play expand forever leave the planet
12:53 PM roycroft: i completely disagree
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: <t12> but getting from data -> personalized treatment is the undefined part of that ...
12:53 PM roycroft: all you're doing then is moving the problem elsewhere
12:53 PM LeelooMinai: Right, the problem is that only rich will be able to afford to move to another planet if this goes on (and humanity even survices to that point:)
12:53 PM roycroft: not solving the problem
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, that where all of you become test subjects for the next few decades
12:53 PM t12: what was that scifi book
12:53 PM t12: whose premise was that we're putting all the undesirables into a ship to colonize somwhere else
12:54 PM t12: and just sending it nowhere
12:54 PM LeelooMinai: The rich people will probably load some workers into the cargo when moving on and slavery will start again, just on another planet:)
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: define undesirables
12:54 PM t12: i forget the books definition
12:54 PM t12: i just heard about it
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: that is the actual problem
12:55 PM t12: i think expanding elsewhere is more realistic than changing human nature
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: what I might find undesirable is not what you may find undesirable
12:55 PM LeelooMinai: Undesirebles = probably anyone that stand in a way of greed/power hunger/ etc.
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: also human nature is defined by whomever is spinning their tale
12:56 PM tiwake: LeelooMinai: probably?
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: society picks and chooses what is human nature all the time
12:57 PM LeelooMinai: Society... For me it's like a creature, a monster, that has own mind, and is pretty scary:)
12:57 PM LeelooMinai: Probably that's why I sit in my home most of the time:p
12:58 PM LeelooMinai: And probably I am not even crazy - which last year in US seems to have proven.
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: what is undesirable? A) a homeless poor person B) a wealthy person who wants the poor to die if they offer no fiduciary benefit to the wealthy person
12:59 PM LeelooMinai: I mean people like Trump, etc. may even think that they control "the monster", but they are just temporary little piece of it, and then things change.
12:59 PM jym: LeelooMinai: That what all the crazy people say to me, myself, and I (spekaing in 1st person)
01:00 PM LeelooMinai: lol, ok, but seriously - if you look from outside, the sum of all people is like one organism and it's difficult to argue with it. Especially now with internet, etc.
01:01 PM LeelooMinai: An average person does not see it like that probably and thinks it's "funny", but it's not that funny imo.
01:02 PM LeelooMinai: Especially if someone looks over long periods of time.
01:02 PM jym: LeelooMinai: You have to be a little crazy to survive in this world =)
01:03 PM LeelooMinai: Not sure if "crazy" nowadays means what it meant before:) I mean US president is crazy and it seems to be accepted.
01:04 PM LeelooMinai: No wonder people living in society now easily get "lost".
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: war film weekend, was watching No Time for Sergeants...
01:05 PM LeelooMinai: I kind of wish I could "unseen" last two years or so.
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: the times have changed but people haven't
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: Well, yes, that's the problem - they cannot keep up with changes.
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: I mean in the past in 1000 years less things would probably change than now in a decade.
01:07 PM LeelooMinai: In terms of quantity at least.
01:10 PM roycroft: it's not accepted by the majority, leeloominai
01:10 PM roycroft: it's accepted that he's president
01:10 PM roycroft: but his behavior is not accepted
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: hi
01:11 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Not sure about it - seems to me that many behaviours that would outrage people few years ago, are "yawn" now:)
01:11 PM roycroft: hmm, the forecast still calls for a high of 27 today, but it's only now, and quite overcast
01:11 PM roycroft: we're still outraged by trump's behavior
01:12 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Imagine if you went to sleep, like a bear, for two years, and have woken now and looked at news in US:p
01:12 PM roycroft: and as far as the overt racism that has emerged in the last few years
01:12 PM roycroft: that used to be the norm
01:12 PM roycroft: then it went underground, starting in the '60s
01:12 PM roycroft: now it's back again
01:13 PM roycroft: another major contention i have with my progressive friends
01:13 PM roycroft: they declared that racism is a thing of the past
01:13 PM LeelooMinai: Racism, I don't know... I see it as something more generic.
01:13 PM roycroft: i've been telling them all along that, while it's diminished, it's still quite alive and well, but not as overtly socially acceptable as before
01:14 PM roycroft: and with the emergence of the trumpeters it's coming back out into the open
01:14 PM roycroft: white democrats say we're a post-racist society so they can feel good about themselves
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: nah, it's just more good ol days from when the USA was great
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: just brief wanted to say hellow
01:15 PM roycroft: republicans say we're a post-racist society so that all the racist acts can be dismissed as something else
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: Racism is just one manifestation of it. It's more like "it's ok to survive at the cost of other groups even if they will suffer and be eradicated even" approach.
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: not it's getting great again
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: not/now
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: im old and go to BEd had a long day Gn8 from germany
01:15 PM roycroft: people of color are astonished that anyone would claim this is a post-racist society
01:16 PM LeelooMinai: survival at all cost vs making sacrifices for other I guess.
01:16 PM LeelooMinai: for others*
01:17 PM LeelooMinai: "The monster" internal struggle I guess:)
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: again the problem is different definitions of great
01:17 PM SpeedEvil: http://imgur.com/gallery/Rad7Q Rug CNC would be fun
01:19 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: There are rug CNCs:)
01:19 PM LeelooMinai: Probably for longer that computers exist...
01:19 PM LeelooMinai: than*
01:20 PM LeelooMinai: Pretty sure that looming machines or whatever they are used input in punched cards, etc. to program patterns in the past.
01:21 PM roycroft: there have been nc pianos since before the invention of computers as well
01:21 PM SpeedEvil: And yes, I mean something that is perhaps less 'traditional' than a standard programmable loom.
01:22 PM roycroft: and certainly tartan fabric has been woven with nc looms since the early 19th century
01:22 PM SpeedEvil: Is NC the right term?
01:22 PM roycroft: sure
01:22 PM roycroft: numerically controlled
01:23 PM LeelooMinai: Whoever made them, he/she was my kind of person. Probably thought "there must be a way to automate this":)
01:23 PM roycroft: cards with holes punched in them are a form of numeric control
01:23 PM SpeedEvil: yes, I was questioning if it was actually numeric, or template based
01:23 PM LeelooMinai: template probably.
01:23 PM roycroft: a template is mathematically based
01:23 PM roycroft: so numeric is correct
01:24 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, was going to say - potato/tomato at some point:)
01:24 PM SpeedEvil: You can make the same argument about copy lathes
01:24 PM SpeedEvil: Or pantographs
01:24 PM roycroft: i should have been more specific
01:24 PM roycroft: a loom template is mathematically based
01:24 PM LeelooMinai: I mean you may start with pattern, but then you pretty fast will look at what the tool is doing and start thinking about programing the toll according to the features.
01:24 PM roycroft: binary math
01:25 PM roycroft: it has cards with holes punched in them
01:25 PM roycroft: the holes determine which shafts are raised and which bobbin is thrown
01:26 PM LeelooMinai: Right, but each hole instructs some part of the machine to do some specific movement, so, boom - you have instructions and processors at this point already.
01:26 PM roycroft: yes
01:26 PM roycroft: i'm distinguishing that from a free-form template which is merely followed
01:26 PM roycroft: but not mathematically analyzed and programmed
01:26 PM LeelooMinai: A, right, like a shape-based thingy.
01:26 PM roycroft: i would call a punch card loom control system numerically controlled
01:27 PM roycroft: but a free-form tempate that is followed not numerically controlled
01:27 PM roycroft: template
01:27 PM LeelooMinai: Well, analog digital - again, it can get blurred:)
01:27 PM roycroft: it's a fairly clear distinction to me
01:28 PM roycroft: for the loom you actually write a program
01:28 PM roycroft: and punch the cards according to the program instructions
01:28 PM SpeedEvil: I don't personally consider it numeric, if it's unary. Or there is a one-one correlation between input and what's done.
01:28 PM SpeedEvil: This may be fairly arbitrary.
01:28 PM LeelooMinai: I can blurr it in many ways pretty easily. For example, to read the holes, you need to do it with mechanisms that are based on "analog" shapes by themsleves:)
01:29 PM SpeedEvil: So, it's numeric if you can enter a number to 256 with 8 holes.
01:29 PM SpeedEvil: but not 8
01:29 PM roycroft: that is completely arbitrary
01:29 PM SpeedEvil: yes.
01:30 PM LeelooMinai: I would call it "discrete control" maybe
01:30 PM LeelooMinai: Like with discrete values, instead of analogy ones.
01:30 PM SpeedEvil: It's more of a cam, with discrete values.
01:30 PM SpeedEvil: (cam, not CAM)
01:30 PM LeelooMinai: lol
01:31 PM roycroft: i see the difference as, the follow template is a real-world reflection of the shape/part being made, albeit not necessarily to scale
01:31 PM roycroft: the punch cards do not resemble the part at all
01:31 PM roycroft: but are a mathematical representation of how to make the part
01:31 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I don't know...
01:32 PM LeelooMinai: I mean, what if you make a template that has curves, etc. but it just moves some internal parts and the result is completelly different from the shape?
01:32 PM roycroft: it's the level of abstraction that defines nc from simple templating
01:33 PM LeelooMinai: Imo it's the "discretization" part that is the most important.
01:33 PM roycroft: i think the loom control punch cards are clearly nc
01:33 PM roycroft: i think that a follow template for lathe is clearly not nc
01:34 PM SpeedEvil: Discretisation and non one-one mapping IMO.
01:34 PM roycroft: there's a line somehwere in the middle, and i'm not sure exactly where that line is
01:35 PM LeelooMinai: Probably what I mentioned - shape, but not directly related to the final shape, just to the internal controls in the machine.
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: I mean it could even have "notches" etc. to do 1/0 operations to turn something on/off
01:36 PM roycroft: the premise of this discussion was that numeric process control existed prior to the modern electronic computer, i believe
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: So good luck finding a clear line:)
01:36 PM roycroft: and my posistion is that it very much did
01:36 PM roycroft: and i think i've made a good argument in support of my position
01:37 PM roycroft: in my mind, that line is not germane to the premise of the discussion
01:37 PM roycroft: it may be interesting, but is not apt
01:38 PM SpeedEvil: I'd argue that you go from pure template/cam following, to discrete motion control of parts of the machine in a one-one mapping, to motion control with an intermediate step - like a DAC, or programmable counter, to full CNC
01:38 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I mentioned looming machinesd and punch cards at the beginning, so sure. I am just saying that it all probably evolved gradually and in blurry ways.
01:39 PM roycroft: sure, speedevil
01:39 PM roycroft: and i think the question at hand is: when do you call the process 'numerically controlled'?
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: I'd say the intermediate step
01:40 PM roycroft: i argue that template/cam following does not fit the definition
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: that is - treatingthe input as numbers.
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: rather than unary discretised positions,or on/off.
01:40 PM roycroft: and that the loom control punch cards does
01:40 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: But that was what I was saying - what if the template has a notch for on/off?
01:41 PM roycroft: so i think we're disagreeing on that
01:41 PM LeelooMinai: Imo this already puts you in numerical world.
01:42 PM LeelooMinai: Or discrete one, so that's why I thought that the disceete part is where things begin to shift, but that line is kind of blurry.
01:43 PM LeelooMinai: I guess it's the point where you stop thinking about the exact shape of the template, but what abstract operation it "commands"
01:43 PM roycroft: i also think that at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if a process should be called "numerically controlled" or not
01:43 PM SpeedEvil: :)
01:44 PM LeelooMinai: So do I, but OCD, IRC, etc:)
01:44 PM SpeedEvil: Unless you're in the numeric machine controlworkers union.
01:45 PM roycroft: until trump bans unions
01:45 PM roycroft: then it won't matter
01:46 PM LeelooMinai: "Unions are great! They are tremendous. I have many frisnds in Unions!" and a week later "We should ban unions, drain the swamp." :)
01:47 PM LeelooMinai: I think he pretty much did that on all his campaign topics.
01:47 PM LeelooMinai: Or 99% of them.
01:49 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, I need to throw stack rewind exception, "InvalidStateTrumpTopicReached".
01:49 PM LeelooMinai: Boom, here, so, concrete slabs.
01:52 PM roycroft: i should work on my lathe for a bit, and then decide if i'm up to doing some gardening
01:52 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sore from yesterday still
01:52 PM roycroft: but there's a lot of work to do
01:53 PM roycroft: one thing i like about machining is that it's not physically taxing, for the most part
02:22 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, wth, there are scammers on amazon.ca now:/
02:22 PM roycroft: there have always been scammers on amazon
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: ...
02:23 PM roycroft: and amazon don't seem to care
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: http://i.imgur.com/fYvxxYg.png
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: I thought Amazon is not like ebay.
02:24 PM LeelooMinai: Why would Amazon not just remove those sellers...
02:24 PM roycroft: yes, that's the scam
02:24 PM roycroft: underprice, and note that you need to contact the seller out-of-band prior to purchase
02:25 PM LeelooMinai: I don't think so - you can put this in your basket and just proceed I think.
02:25 PM roycroft: i report those when i can (amazon make it hard to report), and when i do it takes them a long time to take the seller down
02:25 PM roycroft: put it in your basket and see what happens
02:25 PM roycroft: you'll get a message to contact the seller before paying
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: No, I did not - that's lame...
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: I thought Amazon has control of what they sell.
02:27 PM roycroft: i'm on a uk vpn at the moment
02:27 PM roycroft: everything looks expensive, because of shipping :)
02:27 PM roycroft: but i've seen that scam many times, almost always with grizzly, jet, or precision matthews machinery, priced at about 1/4 retail
02:27 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, but weird part is, I put that surface plate for normal price ($200 CAD in the cart to see how much is the postage, and it came up like free...)
02:28 PM LeelooMinai: Looks like Amazon shps them free, but that's a bit unusual, no?
02:29 PM roycroft: amazon won't be shipping that
02:29 PM roycroft: it would come directly from the seller
02:29 PM jym: amazona ships free over a certain price on some things
02:29 PM LeelooMinai: "Sold and ships from Amazon"
02:29 PM roycroft: not surface plates
02:29 PM roycroft: unless you have amazon prime
02:29 PM jym: Yep, generators too, just depends on the item
02:30 PM roycroft: that was actually a question on "wait, wait" this weekend
02:30 PM roycroft: john prine was the celebrity guest
02:30 PM roycroft: so, of course, they asked him three questions about amazon prime
02:30 PM SpeedEvil: It takes about the same time to sign up for an amazon seller account as an ebay seller account
02:31 PM roycroft: one of which was the heaviest item they would ship for free
02:31 PM roycroft: and the answer was an 8,000lb engine lathe
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: Well, but I don't have Prime: https://www.amazon.ca/Grizzly-G9655-Granite-Surface-18-Inch/dp/B0000DD0KK/
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: And it still came up as free.
02:31 PM roycroft: my surface plate is from grizzly
02:32 PM roycroft: 18x24
02:32 PM roycroft: iirc, shipping cost as much as the surface plate
02:32 PM roycroft: if not more
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that's why I am confused.
02:32 PM roycroft: aah, that price is really high, even factoring in the exchange
02:32 PM SpeedEvil: It can be worth it for vendors to simply roll the shipping cost in
02:32 PM roycroft: so they built the shipping cost into the cost of the item
02:33 PM LeelooMinai: Well, the plate is not exactly expensive for the size.
02:33 PM roycroft: that plate is US$69.95 on the grizzly website
02:34 PM roycroft: or about CAD$97.15
02:34 PM LeelooMinai: Is it? Heh...
02:34 PM roycroft: so you're paying more for shipping than the cost of the plate
02:34 PM roycroft: which sounds about right
02:34 PM LeelooMinai: I guess I have seen too many overpriced surface plates from better companies.
02:35 PM roycroft: an 18x24 starrett is going to cost you $500 or more, depending on the grade
02:35 PM roycroft: and if it's pink it will be leaning way towards "more" :)
02:35 PM roycroft: i would not say they're overpriced
02:36 PM roycroft: but they are likely of a higher grade than you need
02:36 PM LeelooMinai: Imo anything Starret = automatically overpriced:)
02:36 PM roycroft: i would respectfully disagree with you
02:36 PM LeelooMinai: Well, wait, I just bought a straight edge from them.
02:36 PM roycroft: and you just bought from them :P
02:36 PM malcom2073: Used starret on the other hand... :-D
02:37 PM roycroft: you need a machine room layout surface pate
02:37 PM roycroft: plate
02:37 PM roycroft: which is what you would get with the grizzly
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, so maybe not Starret specifically, but some of them just by a rule has prices from outer space.
02:37 PM roycroft: it's not fair to compare that with a toolroom inspection surface plate
02:37 PM malcom2073: My buddy got a 4x8 surface plate table at auction a while back, I helped him haul it out of there
02:38 PM malcom2073: 4000lbs, about the limit of what my poor tailer could do
02:38 PM malcom2073: trailer*
02:38 PM roycroft: when you buy a surface plate, leeloominai
02:38 PM LeelooMinai: I was just looking at some Grizzly surface plate table for $200+ - that's not bad actually.
02:38 PM roycroft: keep in mind that you need to make a 3 point mount for it
02:38 PM LeelooMinai: https://www.amazon.ca/Grizzly-G9660-Surface-Plate-36-Inch/dp/B0000DD0L8
02:39 PM roycroft: as a rule, the mounting points should be approximately 1/3 of the way in along the long axis
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I was more thinking of this stand for my CNC.
02:39 PM roycroft: i put rails along the top of my surface plate stand
02:39 PM roycroft: and installed fine thread set screws, two in one rail and one in the other
02:39 PM roycroft: then i made some dimples in some pieces of 1/4" steel
02:39 PM Loetmichel_: *maaan, i am getting weak... (and its HOT here.) A few dozen screws to mount that engine lift, then moving the engone from the trunk to the garage and my heart is a 180bpm and all my wind lost me... *shivering knees*... at least i got it done before the rain (now): http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16652&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:39 PM roycroft: little squares of steel
02:40 PM roycroft: and set the surface plate on the squares of steel, with the dimples engaging the set screws
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: How are you goin to drive that car if you put the engine in the trunk? :p
02:40 PM malcom2073: mid-engine conversion!
02:41 PM roycroft: the porsche 914 was a fine machine
02:41 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: i will soon get the BMW from the mechanic, place it in my wifes garage and will change the engine there.
02:41 PM * roycroft has a mechanic that he hires to do that kind of work these days, and likes it that way
02:42 PM LeelooMinai: That reminds me that American Beuty movie where the guy had middle age crysis and bought a car.
02:43 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: i am not rich enough for that
02:43 PM Loetmichel_: or to much scrooge :-)
02:44 PM LeelooMinai: Or both:)
02:58 PM roycroft: the clouds are burning off and the sun is coming out
02:59 PM roycroft: i should have been gardening all morning
02:59 PM roycroft: but oh well
02:59 PM malcom2073: It just started raining here :/
02:59 PM malcom2073: Spent the morning outside mowing, got most of it done at least
03:00 PM roycroft: i need to mow my back yard badly
03:00 PM roycroft: and the back yard is about 1/2 in shade
03:00 PM roycroft: so perhaps i'll do that this afternoon
03:00 PM roycroft: and get back to gardening tomorrow
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: busy weekend finding bargains, seems everybody had memorial Day as a deadline to clear out the garage
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: 4' x 8' welding table for $200 made with a ground surface plate
03:40 PM LeelooMinai: o_O
03:40 PM LeelooMinai: How do you make a wedling table with a surface plate? :p
03:41 PM jym: lots and lots of duct tape
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: jym: describing your weekend? :)
03:42 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Rope, lots and lots of rope!
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: hehe
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: magnets
03:43 PM roycroft: cast iron surface plate, not granite
03:43 PM phiplii: velcro?
03:44 PM phiplii: magnets then?
03:44 PM LeelooMinai: 4' by 8' cast iron plate sounds a bit disturbing...
03:44 PM malcom2073: It was
03:44 PM roycroft: disturbing?
03:44 PM roycroft: it sounds awesome to me
03:44 PM roycroft: except i don't have room for it
03:44 PM LeelooMinai: Well, i terms of how it weights, etc.:)
03:44 PM phiplii: 4' by 8'?!
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: you've never seen an iron welding table without holes?
03:45 PM phiplii: how much does it weigh?
03:45 PM roycroft: proabably at least a couple tons
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: about a ton
03:45 PM LeelooMinai: ...
03:45 PM roycroft: really, only that much?
03:45 PM malcom2073: The 4x8 one I had gotten was 4000lbs
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: it was a cast plate with ribbing to save on weight
03:45 PM LeelooMinai: Right, as I thought, that's crazy.
03:46 PM roycroft: yes, they almost always have ribbing
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: was made very similar to a t-slot table on a large mill
03:46 PM roycroft: it's like a very wide, upside down camelback straight edge :)
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: inly this is flat, no t-slot
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: I can still see the path of the grinder
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: they never welded on it, they used it for type setting
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: in later years they used it to store things on so it has a few scratches
03:57 PM LeelooMinai: lol @ Florida passing a bill that will push teaching "alternative" views on science, evolution, etc.
03:59 PM LeelooMinai: Deevolution
04:01 PM Tom_L: big bang theory
04:22 PM phiplii: Out side of a certain group of strong minded enthusiastic people...
04:22 PM phiplii: how common are such views?
04:22 PM phiplii: are they a "vocal minority"
04:22 PM phiplii: or is it quite a common viewpoint?
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: What views?
04:23 PM phiplii: "lol @ Florida passing a bill that will push teaching "alternative" views..."
04:25 PM LeelooMinai: Well, from what I understand it's what the religious people try to do for long time, just using different strategies, the recently did not really work any more. But seems finally they found a way again, using "academic freedom" as a way to push it through.
04:26 PM phiplii: The argument only works if both are presented on a level footing
04:26 PM LeelooMinai: I learned that there's even a "museum" somewhere where they actually show people riding dinosours and things like that.
04:26 PM phiplii: yeah
04:27 PM phiplii: heard about that
04:27 PM phiplii: the Scientologists have a "museum" too
04:28 PM LeelooMinai: I loled at first, then thought about parents taking children to such places for "education" - that's kind of sad.
04:28 PM roycroft: it's not possible to present fiction and fact on a level footing, as though both may be fact
04:28 PM roycroft: one is being affirmed, the other elevated
04:29 PM phiplii: well... not without it being obvious
04:30 PM phiplii: my mum went through the catholic education system
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: All the world is full of wonderful science, and poor child ends up thinking that it's all made up and Earth is 6k yo old - that's cruel.
04:30 PM phiplii: says in her teens she noticed how asking questions was encouraged in some classes... and she was told to shut up and DO NOT QUESTION in others
04:30 PM phiplii: at that point she lost her faith
04:31 PM roycroft: congressman-elect assault and battery from montana is pushing a belief that the world is <10,000 years old
04:31 PM phiplii: I do worry about what great minds have been lost over the centuries through lost opportunity
04:31 PM LeelooMinai: I was lucky, even though I lived in Poland and church having a lot influence there (compulsory religious classes, etc.), I got expelled from the church lectures once after I asked the Priest who created God:)
04:32 PM phiplii: heh
04:32 PM phiplii: Things are very different here - Religion is less of a talking point, but we have religious education
04:32 PM phiplii: it covers all major religions
04:32 PM phiplii: but... sometimes you get a teacher with stronger opinions...
04:33 PM phiplii: I nearly got kicked out of class for answering the question "what would you do if you lost everything like Job?"
04:33 PM LeelooMinai: Find another job? :)
04:33 PM phiplii: by answering get a job at the local warehouse... they take anyone there
04:34 PM phiplii: pack vegetables. Low skill.
04:34 PM phiplii: Always hiring.
04:34 PM phiplii: Turns out it was rhetorical...
04:36 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I was doing this all the time too during the classes - trying to make everone laugh, as the classes were morbid - the teacher/priests had tendency to create a tens atmosphere, where everyone felt guilty and scared (10 year olds or so,) so I guess that did not help my case later either.
04:36 PM phiplii: Catholic?
04:36 PM LeelooMinai: Yes
04:36 PM phiplii: Yeah
04:36 PM phiplii: Fear of god and all that
04:37 PM LeelooMinai: But, after they expelled me, other parents were telling their children to stay away from me:/
04:38 PM phiplii: :s
04:38 PM phiplii: Religion is more of a hobby here - less of a core thing
04:38 PM phiplii: for the most part
04:38 PM LeelooMinai: Good thing my parents were sane, but I now imagine other children with religious parents - that must be pretty tough to work out of such environment.
04:39 PM phiplii: you are who you are because of your parents
04:39 PM phiplii: would you have done the same if they hadn't been?
04:40 PM phiplii: https://creationmuseum.org/
04:40 PM LeelooMinai: lol, they have a website even
04:40 PM LeelooMinai: Life-size Noah's Ark...
04:40 PM phiplii: yeah... their coding isn't great
04:41 PM phiplii: hold the cursor over the lower portion of the buttons
04:41 PM phiplii: as it moves up, the mouseover event...
04:41 PM phiplii: hehehe
04:41 PM phiplii: how on earth did that get through testing
04:42 PM LeelooMinai: You mean blessing? :)
04:43 PM LeelooMinai: The "creation section" is great. Starts with "Creationists love science!".
04:44 PM phiplii: Heh. At least kids have the internet these days
04:44 PM phiplii: Wikipedia ftw
04:45 PM phiplii: For all its faults, it is still an amazing thing.
04:45 PM DaViruz: amen ;)
04:46 PM phiplii: I have a text only backup of it somewhere (which I should update)
04:46 PM phiplii: it has so much information it is a precious thing
04:46 PM phiplii: it is the most sci-fi thing we have
04:47 PM phiplii: the Hitchhikers guide - a little info about everything.
04:47 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know any more. It is, but then one day someone may manage to make it gone or something like that. Afaik they already managed to pass some anti net neutrality laws.
04:48 PM phiplii: Business is probably its greatest threat
04:48 PM phiplii: because you can't make encyclopedias for money any more
04:48 PM phiplii: evening JT-Mobile
04:49 PM phiplii: JT-Mobile: what happened with the door? Code or hardware issues?
04:49 PM JT-Mobile: howdy, coding issues I think
04:49 PM JT-Mobile: we are in Waco Tx today
04:49 PM phiplii: Having fun?
04:50 PM JT-Mobile: I had it working on the desk but when I moved it outside it would not work lol
04:51 PM phiplii: how are the wires connected?
04:51 PM phiplii: solder or scew terminals?
04:51 PM LeelooMinai: lol "Animals you might encounter during your visit include a donkey, zorse, zonkey, alpacas, camels, coatis, goats, wallabies, and more."
04:54 PM LeelooMinai: The murphy law probably states somehwhere that it something is going to break, it will be the first time where it leaves the test environment.
04:55 PM phiplii: true
04:57 PM JT-Mobile: dupont connectors on the breakout board
04:59 PM phiplii: How far away is the power supply?
04:59 PM phiplii: is it a different source to the bench test?
05:00 PM phiplii: if you're running a lower voltage through long cables...
05:00 PM phiplii: you might be struggling to make the minimum
05:00 PM JT-Mobile: everything it within a couple of feet
05:01 PM LeelooMinai: Depends on the current, but yes, if the cables have too small cross-section, you will get voltage drop, but that's easy to measure/check. Length may also cause signal integrity issues.
05:01 PM phiplii: hum. Do you have a HC-06 Bluetooth module?
05:02 PM phiplii: They're great for easily checking debug messages
05:02 PM phiplii: they say 3.3v...
05:02 PM JT-Mobile: no, just and ethernet module
05:02 PM phiplii: but I've never broken one at 5v. They're cheap enough that I don't mind if I do.
05:02 PM phiplii: and I've been using them like that for years.
05:02 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, that reminded me that I was supposed to check if they have ADALM2000 being sold already.
05:02 PM JT-Mobile: I think it is a code issue because the output for up won't even come on but the down works
05:03 PM phiplii: what is the current code? Is it what I sent back, or somewhere between?
05:03 PM phiplii: I'll have some time - I can load it into a board and check the logic
05:03 PM JT-Mobile: I'm in Texas for a week of over eating and bike riding lol have to look at it on the 5th
05:03 PM phiplii: (tomorrow)
05:04 PM phiplii: heh
05:04 PM phiplii: no problem
05:04 PM phiplii: my parents have scuppered our plans for tomorrow by announcing they are visiting (we were going out)
05:04 PM JT-Mobile: I doubled up the defense on the run and my neighbor is dropping by twice a day to check on them and feed and water them
05:05 PM phiplii: so while they're not here I'll have time to play electronics
05:05 PM JT-Mobile: I switched to a timer due to a thunderstorm closing the door with them outside
05:05 PM phiplii: JT-Mobile: when we went away we had a line of people offering to look after ours
05:05 PM phiplii: they're quite popular
05:05 PM JT-Mobile: if you cobble up some code for an input for up and one for down and an up and down sensor that would be great
05:06 PM phiplii: The rule to remember is don't use "chicken wire"
05:06 PM phiplii: it isn't strong enough to keep out a bloody minded fox
05:06 PM JT-Mobile: once the door works and the lock arrives they are pretty safe in the coop at night
05:06 PM phiplii: We use that two inch square mesh
05:07 PM LeelooMinai: Tesla-based optical recognition engine and lasers imo:)
05:07 PM phiplii: hell yeah
05:07 PM phiplii: my brother works in film / stage / advert props
05:07 PM phiplii: and has made a few auto turrets in his time
05:08 PM phiplii: keep meaning to combine one of the paintball ones with an opencv fox tracking camera...
05:08 PM JT-Mobile: I put 1/2" mesh in some areas and others are a combination of 1" chicken wire and 1/2" chicken wire doubler
05:08 PM LeelooMinai: JT-Mobile: Or you could just get a dog to protect the chicken:)
05:09 PM JT-Mobile: right now there are so many dogs in the area I don't think I need to worry about a fox just the dogs
05:09 PM * Loetmichel has made a chicken coop out of stainless steel mesh meant to be 1" sieves for seperating sand/gravel
05:09 PM Loetmichel: the fox that can pepetrate THAT has to get a medal ;)
05:10 PM JT-Mobile: http://gnipsel.com/images/chicks/coop03.jpg
05:10 PM * LeelooMinai looks around suspiciously
05:11 PM JT-Mobile: http://gnipsel.com/images/chicks/chicken-run-1.jpg
05:11 PM LeelooMinai: I have been on many channels, but I never saw even one person making chicken coops, while here seems everyone does - it's weird:)
05:11 PM JT-Mobile: that has been heavily fortified lol
05:11 PM JT-Mobile: hey nerds like chicken
05:12 PM JT-Mobile: I need to build a bigger more fortified run
05:12 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe it's some rular-area thing, because I never knew anyone holding chickens at their house:)
05:12 PM phiplii: ours is out of something like 2mm wire
05:12 PM LeelooMinai: rural*
05:14 PM Loetmichel: *SPLAT* maan, these mosqitos here are REALLY brazen... sits down on my typing wrist and starts to suck blood... was its death though ;)
05:14 PM phiplii: LeelooMinai: I spent ages looking for a chicken IRC channel, and couldn't find one. Then I logged in here and found you all chatting about chucks
05:15 PM phiplii: LeelooMinai: I live in a city - but I'm a country boy
05:15 PM JT-Mobile: everything I see over here is 2" x 4" opening or 1/2" square
05:16 PM phiplii: ours looks like this : https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2824324872_30d592872d.jpg
05:16 PM phiplii: about either 1.5" or 2" squares
05:17 PM phiplii: Started as a commercial product my missus bought me for my birthday... modified to be stronger / more secure and have a wire floor
05:26 PM phiplii: can you use serial-port-json-server with linuxcnc?
05:39 PM JT-Mobile: http://www.academyfence.com/welded-wire/vinyl-coated/2in-x-2in/
05:39 PM JT-Mobile: found this 2x2 welded fence
05:39 PM phiplii: blimey - quite expensive
05:39 PM phiplii: but yeah, that sort of thing
05:40 PM JT-Mobile: yea
05:40 PM phiplii: ah, it is pvc coated
05:40 PM phiplii: mine is just galvanised
05:40 PM JT-Mobile: I can get 2" chain link fence a bit cheaper
05:42 PM JT-Mobile: https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/fencing/chain-link-fencing/50-galvanized-11-5-gauge-chain-link-fence-fabric/p-1444428700086-c-5742.htm?tid=3619020492960901855
05:42 PM phiplii: how much do you figure you need
05:42 PM phiplii: ?
05:43 PM phiplii: the shop up the road from me sells 6m x 0.9m of 1" square for... translated in my head about $25
05:44 PM Deejay: gn8
05:45 PM JT-Mobile: dunno, just thinking about a bigger run for the chickens
05:46 PM phiplii: I need a bigger garden first really :)
05:46 PM JT-Mobile: I'm skipping the garden this year to much to do
05:48 PM Crom: I need to get more soil for my garden boxes
06:02 PM JT-Mobile: I think the ultimate Arduino answer is to use the DS3231 clock
06:03 PM phiplii: Or train the birds to shut the door after them
06:03 PM phiplii: :)
06:04 PM JT-Mobile: I saw a few balance roosts that shut the door when the birds are mostly on the roost and open as they jump off
06:05 PM JT-Mobile: I have one that flys up to the camera mount and roosts up in the top lol
06:05 PM phiplii: :)
06:06 PM JT-Mobile: another option for me is to just get a Click PLC and use that...
06:07 PM JT-Mobile: but I'd rather figure out what is wrong with my Arduino project
06:07 PM phiplii: shouldn't be any issues with the arduino
06:07 PM phiplii: it will just be a bug or a lose wire
06:07 PM phiplii: You're using a nano aren't you?
06:08 PM phiplii: pretty standard
06:08 PM phiplii: has the ATMega328 chip
06:08 PM JT-Mobile: that's what I thought but it just doesn't turn on the output for up
06:08 PM JT-Mobile: yea nano 128 or something like that
06:08 PM JT-Mobile: 168 maybe
06:09 PM JT-Mobile: I have some of each size
06:09 PM phiplii: what is the current draw for the thing you have connected?
06:09 PM phiplii: 168? Interesting - that isn't the usual chip
06:09 PM phiplii: that one has half the memory
06:10 PM phiplii: mostly the same chip though.
06:10 PM JT-Mobile: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SKG6OM4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
06:10 PM JT-Mobile: https://www.amazon.com/XO-ATmega168-MicroUSB-soldered-Compatible/dp/B06WWKML2T/ref=sr_1_26?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1496011215&sr=1-26&keywords=arduino+nano
06:11 PM JT-Mobile: I use the double pole relay to reverse the dc motor and the second one for off and on
06:11 PM phiplii: driving a darlington pair so it shouldn't be drawing too much current
06:11 PM pcw_home: If you have daytime predators, beware that 2" mesh will allow paws/claws to reach in
06:12 PM JT-Mobile: hi peter, afaik dogs are the big daytime threat
06:12 PM pcw_home: weasels, small opposums
06:12 PM JT-Mobile: it's all a mystery to me at the moment
06:13 PM phiplii: take a lot to stop a weasel
06:13 PM phiplii: little buggers
06:13 PM JT-Mobile: I've not seen a weasel but we have them
06:13 PM phiplii: they'll squeeze through a tiny hole
06:13 PM JT-Mobile: 1/2" hardware cloth!
06:13 PM phiplii: back to the laser turret I think
06:13 PM JT-Mobile: are weasels a daytime hunter or night time?
06:14 PM phiplii: day I think...
06:14 PM JT-Mobile: laser mounted on a self propelled
06:14 PM JT-Mobile: with IFOF
06:14 PM phiplii: don't underestimate the birds though - they do fight
06:14 PM phiplii: ours have run off cats
06:15 PM phiplii: although weasels are vicious
06:15 PM XXCoder: and crows MAKE cats fight
06:15 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt-pB1R64mI
06:15 PM phiplii: I think I've seen that...
06:15 PM JT-Mobile: me too
06:15 PM XXCoder: theres other and much worse video
06:16 PM phiplii: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dWw9GLcOeA
06:20 PM JT-Mobile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZerUbHmuY04
06:21 PM XXCoder: crows scientists suspect they have what they call knowledge of theory of mind
06:22 PM XXCoder: for example if crow is burying food, and it spots another crow watching
06:22 PM XXCoder: it will keep burying food but will go back couple hours later when no crow is watching and move it.
06:23 PM phiplii: Birds are fascinating.
06:24 PM phiplii: They're all brighter than they get credit for
06:24 PM phiplii: but the crows are amazing
06:24 PM XXCoder: yeah scientists is thinking crow is best model for alien intellency and figuring how to commucate to aliens
06:25 PM phiplii: interesting
06:25 PM phiplii: have you seen the stuff about how they can fly faster in a tunnel with one orientation stripes compared to the other?
06:25 PM phiplii: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvGWVSZ9Efc
06:26 PM phiplii: although that is budgerigars...
06:26 PM phiplii: swear I've seen something about crows and the same thing
06:26 PM XXCoder: jt's link dang
06:26 PM XXCoder: crow figured which would sink and which would float and block from eating
06:28 PM JT-Mobile: off for some chicken wings :)
06:28 PM phiplii: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0vDSxF0SD0
06:28 PM phiplii: Enjoy JT-Mobile
06:29 PM XXCoder: phiplii: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35uQCtr4EY
06:29 PM JT-Mobile: kinda like teaching them to use a chicken nipple for water lol
06:29 PM phiplii: yes - saw the rabbit one
06:30 PM phiplii: Chickens keep strict order - they figure that they don't like the rabbits fighting because it will draw attention from predators
06:30 PM phiplii: usually, chickens don't fight too much unless there is an upset in the pecking order
06:32 PM JT-Mobile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68RKNJkarAM
06:32 PM JT-Mobile: bbl
06:33 PM phiplii: late here - probably see you tomorrow
06:34 PM phiplii: yeah. actually, it is already tomorrow
06:34 PM phiplii: should head off
06:34 PM phiplii: nn
06:35 PM XXCoder: JT-Mobile: isnt it males that tend to fight more?
06:35 PM phiplii: XXCoder: Chickens?
06:35 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:35 PM phiplii: (nearly left)
06:35 PM phiplii: yes
06:36 PM phiplii: but females fight establish the pecking order by fighting
06:36 PM phiplii: and will defend the flock
06:36 PM phiplii: males are suicidal in their fighting predators - they'll attack /anything/
06:37 PM phiplii: it is expected that it is to distract the predator while the rest of the flock runs away
06:37 PM phiplii: because the males aren't that much use, while the females can make lots of chicks with only a few cockerels about
06:38 PM * phiplii switches to the tablet
06:48 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:50 PM Phipli: the cockerel we used to have was actually bottom of the pecking order
06:51 PM Phipli: used to get teased by a squirrel.... until he caught it
06:51 PM Phipli: thing managed to get away but didn't tease him again.
06:51 PM Phipli: it used to run up and flick its tail in his face
06:52 PM XXCoder: crazy
06:52 PM Phipli: yeah
06:52 PM Phipli: good pets. Always entertaining.
07:12 PM roycroft: well that was a fruitless excursion
07:13 PM roycroft: i went around to the second hand shops, and even a sporting goods store, in search of cast iron weights that could be made into lathe chuck backing plates
07:13 PM roycroft: there was nothing even remotly fitting the bill
07:15 PM XXCoder: aw
07:15 PM XXCoder: criaglist?
07:15 PM XXCoder: them cast iron dumbells
07:16 PM XXCoder: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083QZA6W/
07:16 PM roycroft: the modern trend seems to be that the larger weights are all "grip" weights
07:17 PM XXCoder: or single one https://www.amazon.com/CAP-Barbell-Standard-Weight-5-Pound/dp/B0029NLDL6/
07:17 PM roycroft: meaning there are voids in them for gripping them
07:17 PM roycroft: rendering them useless
07:17 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAP-Barbell-2-Olympic-Cast-Iron-2-5lbs-100lbs-SINGLE-Plate-Weight-Gym-Lifting-/182273267014?var=&hash=item2a70555546:m:mA31OJ_L_oM-ec7TLf7CfCA
07:17 PM roycroft: something like that might be useful, if it were large enough
07:17 PM roycroft: but then there's the thickness issue - i need 3" thick so i can turn a spud on the thing
07:17 PM XXCoder: did you see link? heh
07:17 PM XXCoder: though not 3"
07:18 PM roycroft: or i need to braze a spud on the weight
07:18 PM roycroft: i need 2" for the finished plate
07:18 PM roycroft: and i thought 1" would be sufficient for the spud
07:20 PM roycroft: although i'm not completely convinced the finished plate needs to be 2" thick
07:20 PM roycroft: my current chuck spins on all the way to the collar on the spindle
07:20 PM roycroft: the register is fairly long, as is the threaded portion
07:20 PM roycroft: and that's where the 2" comes in
07:20 PM XXCoder: I wouldnt know though is there no scrap at appromate size?
07:20 PM roycroft: i've checked my usual sources
07:21 PM roycroft: cast iron scrap is hard to come by
07:21 PM roycroft: steel is a lot more common
07:21 PM roycroft: it will cost me $85+ shipping to get a 3" thick piece from mcmaster
07:21 PM roycroft: i'm hoping to do this for significantly less than that
07:22 PM XXCoder: maybe used anvil with part you can slice off and make into plate? heh
07:22 PM XXCoder: honestly not likely
07:23 PM roycroft: https://www.mcmaster.com/#8926k84/=17tu164
07:23 PM roycroft: not quite $85
07:23 PM roycroft: but close enough
07:24 PM roycroft: 2" is $57.68, and if i could fine some crap cast iron drain pipe i could braze a pice of that onto the blank
07:26 PM XXCoder: 3 of 1 inch blanks?
07:26 PM XXCoder: probably end up more money lol
07:28 PM roycroft: if i had a reasonable way of parting of a big disc like that i could get a 5" thick one, and make two backing plates out of it - i'd only need the one spud for that
07:29 PM roycroft: but parting off an 8" diameter disk might be problematic
07:29 PM roycroft: even with a 60mm bore in it
07:30 PM roycroft: well, the register is 65mm, so i guess that would be the bore size where it's parted off
08:39 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, spent two days (read few hours of real work, ) to reduce the entropy of my room by 0.1% or so - not sure how to feel about it:)
09:50 PM roycroft: the flange on the bolt whose head i was turning down was hardened
09:50 PM roycroft: and i watched my tool burn up as it hit it
09:50 PM roycroft: i hate it when that happens
09:52 PM roycroft: i need to go back later and measure again, but i think my tailstock is within 0.0005" in height alignment with the headstock, and 0.001" out of alignment horizontally when it's at the headstock
09:52 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: whole .1%!@
09:52 PM roycroft: the latter can easily be adjusted, and the former i can live with :)
09:52 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: )
09:52 PM roycroft: fortunately i had some carbide tooling, and was able to finish turning the bolt head with one of those
09:53 PM roycroft: for a school lathe that's been crashed multiple times, it's turning out to be a decent machine
09:55 PM XXCoder: roycroft: awesome!
09:55 PM XXCoder: thats great news indeed
09:56 PM roycroft: yes, it means maybe i'll shut up about it here eventually :)
09:56 PM XXCoder: why? heh
09:56 PM roycroft: this is a cnc channel, not a general machining channel
09:56 PM XXCoder: ehh it is.... ponentally cnc-able. close enough :P
09:56 PM roycroft: but it's the best general machining channel i've found on irc
09:57 PM roycroft: and i do try to keep the lathe talk down when folks are actually taking cnc
09:57 PM roycroft: i interject my stuff during the lulls between the on-topic discussions
09:57 PM roycroft: or at least i try to
09:57 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:06 PM roycroft: also, once i get the lathe dialed in i'll be using it to turn the ends of the ball screws for my mill/drill, so i can complete that cnc conversion
10:06 PM roycroft: so my discussing it is at least tangentially cnc-related :)
10:07 PM * roycroft can rationalize like the best of them
10:09 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:39 PM dioz: what should i do for rain water collection?
10:39 PM dioz: i like green grass
10:40 PM roycroft: collect rain water, if it's legal to do so?
10:41 PM dioz: yah. hard to believe there are places it isn't.
10:41 PM XXCoder: yes, look up legality. its not legal here.
10:41 PM XXCoder: conceptally its simple enough
10:42 PM XXCoder: connect your roof gutters to big box or barrel that has cover
10:42 PM dioz: eves trough to barrels setup parallel
10:42 PM dioz: small pump
10:42 PM XXCoder: there should be chemistry to prevent algae and such
10:42 PM dioz: garden hose
10:46 PM dioz: you guys ever heard of a ram pump? no fuel/ no elecrric mechanical water pump
10:48 PM XXCoder: no
10:50 PM Crom: made a temp mount for my dremel
10:50 PM Crom: http://picpaste.com/20170528_201513-Fvsuf6rb.jpg
10:51 PM XXCoder: aw no more spindle heh
10:54 PM Crom: found a piece of 1/2 thick AL bar.. about 3 1/2" wide
10:55 PM Crom: I have a fair amount of that AL angle... top left is the piece holding my X home switch..
10:57 PM XXCoder: your spindle still need bushings?
10:57 PM XXCoder: still too bad we dont hve any bushless spindle for 52mm
10:57 PM Crom: making 2 crowns.. mucked up... it'a cutting th end... oops... 'll have to solder the fronts together
10:59 PM Crom: just above the dremel on the back set of 12mm linear rail is the old spindle mount
11:01 PM roycroft: these clickspring videos are inspiring
11:01 PM XXCoder: yes!
11:01 PM roycroft: i'm watching the clockmaking ones right now
11:01 PM XXCoder: clickspring is like #1 machinist video I know of
11:02 PM XXCoder: im slowly following the mechinism recreation now, its remake of one made in ancient times lost to sea.
11:02 PM roycroft: the antikythera mechanism?
11:03 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:03 PM XXCoder: someone recreated it in lego
11:03 PM XXCoder: pretty amazing.
11:03 PM roycroft: i'm holding off on that series until he's done
11:04 PM roycroft: there are only a handful of videos right now in the series
11:06 PM XXCoder: I love how he outlines possibilities of how its made and attempts to follow those
11:24 PM LeelooMinai: Found a NYC CYC video about scraping class. HD, bunch of rather heavy dudes and a "master" learning the art:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq3tHyRVNys
11:25 PM Crom: That's a good video
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, those 60fps videos - there's a big difference, at least for me - they are much more life-like.
11:27 PM XXCoder: camerawork make me dizzy :(
11:27 PM LeelooMinai: Almost like you sit there.
11:35 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: nah more like almost like youre a fairly darting around and looking at stuff
11:40 PM LeelooMinai: It's like visiting Ironforge in WoW and seeing dwarves working on weird things.
11:40 PM XXCoder: lol
11:40 PM XXCoder: any of you nes fan?
11:40 PM XXCoder: I wonder if theres cheaper flashable nes cart
11:40 PM XXCoder: so I can flash some game on it and play for while then flash something else
11:41 PM Crom: I was SNES, actually a SNES developer for a while...
11:41 PM Crom: Nintendo wouldn't release our game cuz it wouldn't run on gen 1 consoles
11:42 PM XXCoder: sucks
11:42 PM XXCoder: well you can buy nes cases really cheap lol
11:42 PM XXCoder: so if you figure how to make circuit boards cheap you can make limited run of your unreleased game lol
11:43 PM XXCoder: example https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-For-Nintendo-For-NES-Game-Card-Box-Red-and-White-Machine-Game-Card-Shell-Professional/32804953792.html
11:43 PM Crom: the snes security was a 555 cap/resistor circuit..
11:43 PM XXCoder: err snes lemme see lol
11:45 PM XXCoder: yep theres a bunch. not as cheap as nes
11:45 PM LeelooMinai: I knew that - they like powered scraper more than doing it by hand.
11:45 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Game-Card-replacement-case-for-famicom-SFC-NES-Game-Cartridge-Storage-Box-US-Version/32657469535.html
11:45 PM Crom: to make a test cart.. we ripped the prom off a cart, and put in sockets.. so we could seat our eproms
11:45 PM XXCoder: uv erasable right?
11:46 PM Crom: yep
11:46 PM XXCoder: nice
11:48 PM Crom: used a 12" black light flourencent in a shoe box upside down
11:49 PM XXCoder: so that game was never released eh
11:50 PM Crom: yep... Gordo 106, mutant Lab Monkey side scroll
11:50 PM XXCoder: you still has roms or what?
11:51 PM XXCoder: because preserving games lik that is awesome
11:51 PM Crom: nah... guy I worked with has all that in Ohio
11:51 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSehz0_3thk
11:51 PM XXCoder: lynx version apparently
11:54 PM Crom: I was on the team porting it to the SNES
11:54 PM XXCoder: how close is snes to that
11:55 PM Crom: alot better color, maps where huge...
11:56 PM XXCoder: interesting. hopefully rom can be recovered
11:56 PM Crom: a lot more back ground animations..
11:57 PM XXCoder: heh I cant imange it crazier than it already is
11:59 PM Crom: resolution depending on mode could be up to basically a full NTSC frame though you loose color depth, or reduced pixel count and higher color