#linuxcnc Logs
May 27 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:06 AM Crom: Elvis now
12:09 AM Crom: screw it back to beatles
12:21 AM LeelooMinai: Great - I just had an idea for a way of measuring straighness of a linear guide and there's a paper from 2013 with paractically identical solution.
12:21 AM LeelooMinai: So don't have to do any experiments to veryfy it:)
12:21 AM XXCoder: oo
12:22 AM LeelooMinai: It's the same idea I want to use in my 3D probe actually.
12:22 AM LeelooMinai: Easy peasy: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143816613000766
12:22 AM LeelooMinai: I actually tested it to some extent already.
12:23 AM LeelooMinai: But with a phototransistor and fiber optics, but I intended to test simple photointerrupter too.
12:25 AM LeelooMinai: With my setup I was able to detect 2 μm displacements, but it's really just a mater of good op-amp.
12:28 AM XXCoder: thats pretty good
12:29 AM LeelooMinai: The best part is that there's really nothing expensive there.
12:30 AM LeelooMinai: And nothing really complicated from the electronic part even.
12:31 AM LeelooMinai: signal -> filter -> ADC -> process -> profit:)
12:35 AM Crom: sensing one side of the wire... when the fiber optic light source is occluded from the fiber optic going to the photo detector...
12:36 AM LeelooMinai: I put some music wire into the basket when I was ordering from KBC. Not sure if I got right diameter one, but I was thinking about using it to test planarity of axis.
12:37 AM LeelooMinai: Since, well, if you just cross pair of axis with it in 2 or 3 places you have in theory 3 straight lines that also should be coplaner.
12:37 AM LeelooMinai: coplanar*
12:38 AM LeelooMinai: The only issue being checking that, but I was thinking maybe simple electric continuity test or if not, some proximity sensing.
12:38 AM Crom: now that's cool! I wonder if that' translatable to surface detection using the reflection of the output from the fiber open into another at an angle...
12:39 AM LeelooMinai: Crom: Well, I think interrupters can work like that too - there are either direct kind or reflective ones too.
12:40 AM LeelooMinai: I got 40 mil diameter wire - that's 1mm. No idea if that's reasonable or I will need to use some crazy weights to tension them...
12:40 AM Crom: I'm thinking using the fiber optic you can get better control of the light
12:41 AM LeelooMinai: Well, I just looked at the list of paper references at the bottom of that article - the bastards figured the same ideas long time ago it seems:)
12:41 AM LeelooMinai: It's like they have no life.
12:41 AM LeelooMinai: Sit there and figure things out:/
12:41 AM Crom: Turn buckle then run the wire over a height setter ala pivot
12:42 AM LeelooMinai: I have some weights in the basement - like the ones you put on the end of the, err, lifting "rod", no idea what it is called.
12:43 AM Crom: Free weight bar
12:44 AM Crom: Id rather user a turn buckle
12:44 AM LeelooMinai: Right, maybe I got to thick a wire... I don't know:)
12:45 AM LeelooMinai: Right, but then I have to attach that buckle thing ... somewhere.
12:45 AM Crom: You going vertical?
12:46 AM LeelooMinai: Well, I planes to test this method first on the y rails, so thats horizontal.
12:46 AM LeelooMinai: I planed*
12:47 AM LeelooMinai: I will have a straight edge, so I could eye-ball it with the wires, but I am not sure what such visual check is accurate to...
12:47 AM XXCoder: theres few ways to improve compare
12:47 AM XXCoder: longer so small angle show up better for example
12:47 AM Crom: Still think a turn buckle will be easier to tension
12:47 AM LeelooMinai: I know using light can help a bit.
12:48 AM XXCoder: dunno what your system is like
12:48 AM XXCoder: maybe simple magification will help
12:49 AM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Well imagine two parallel round rails. Plan would be to, say crossing them with tensioned wire on both ends and in the middle then you have three lines that you can check for parallelity with a straight edge - if they are perfactly parallel, they willbe same distance from the straight edge no matter the position of it.
12:50 AM XXCoder: interesting
12:50 AM XXCoder: pretty simple in concept
12:51 AM XXCoder: you can probably use magification for looking at wire and marks
12:51 AM Crom: if you can go around the rails. turn buckle to pull each end together on the bottom
12:51 AM LeelooMinai: Yes, well, it was the simplest idea that came to my mind - in theory it whould work, at least geometrically.
12:51 AM LeelooMinai: Right, I guess I can just loop them.
12:52 AM XXCoder: HD camera looking at it very closely?
12:52 AM XXCoder: big tv'd make it much easier to see it.
12:52 AM LeelooMinai: Electron microscope:)
12:52 AM XXCoder: now that is way too close lol
12:52 AM Crom: usb microscope... look at pixels occulded
12:53 AM Crom: That's bic machine vision trick...
12:53 AM LeelooMinai: well, I have RPI camera with close-up lens.
12:53 AM Crom: s/bic/basic/
12:53 AM LeelooMinai: I also happen to have an inspection microscope, but getting it there would be a bit problematic:)
12:54 AM Crom: use the photo dector to keep the camera the same height off the wire
12:56 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I guess I should order those turnbuckle things.
01:00 AM Crom: did I mention how much I hate setting sleeves..
01:00 AM LeelooMinai: I am afraid I have close to none knowledge about sewing:)
01:10 AM Crom: It's not genetic... I know more guys today that can sew than girls
01:11 AM Crom: My poor wife.. when I met her, she didn't have a dummy... only 1 sewing machine and a crappy one at that..... I brought in 6 machines and a dummy ( Dress Form)
01:12 AM Crom: not to mention 3 irons, a ironing board (a good one)
01:13 AM Crom: 1st week I was here.. I replaced 2 boxes of outlets, a box of switches.. flappers and filler valves and wall valves on both toilets... changed 1/2 the lights to CFL's, now hey are all LED
01:14 AM Crom: Changed the brakes on her car and gave it a tune up
01:14 AM Crom: ahhh the days when I was making $600 a week take home...
01:15 AM Crom: now we're living on $859 a month from disability and a grandma trust check
01:16 AM Crom: and the last 5 months it's been less than that...
01:16 AM XXCoder: yeah led FINALLY reached mass market saulation, its everywhere ans reasonable cheap
01:17 AM Crom: I get one dimmable bulb ever trip to ikea.. that's about 2 trips a year.. and I get one janso lamp the $10oone a year as well
01:17 AM Crom: /soone/ one/
01:18 AM XXCoder: heh my oldest led bulbs is now umm 7 years old?
01:18 AM XXCoder: its 5 year warranty definitely very expired (imange, warranty on light bulbs!)
01:19 AM Crom: New tech....
01:19 AM XXCoder: its first use was my room lighting, 5 years
01:20 AM XXCoder: nothing for year, then for last year restroom mirror lights
01:21 AM XXCoder: actually lived here 3 years not 2 hmm i guess its actually 8 years old lol
01:21 AM XXCoder: its early generation so it has BIG cap inside it so it fades out fairly slowly when turned off. LOL
01:21 AM XXCoder: used to be able to walk and get in bed before light completely fades
01:22 AM Crom: The always on lights. One in the kitchen now 2watts,hallway from 26watts to 9watts
01:22 AM Crom: Kitchen was a 5w cfl
01:24 AM Crom: Trying to find some short e11 led bulbs for the dining room fan
01:25 AM Crom: Yay abba
01:25 AM XXCoder: e11 is a nightmare for led :(
01:25 AM XXCoder: I finally bought 3 at $12 each for dining room
01:25 AM XXCoder: its still ok so far
01:28 AM Crom: e11 and e17 is findable.. problem is getting small or short enough... kitchen under counter lights need to be less than 1.3" in diameter and the fan lights need to be short.. no longer than 1.6"
01:30 AM Crom: hmmm... led cob warm white... death lamp $2 each
01:30 AM Crom: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dimmable-E12-E11-E17-G8-BA15D-E14-G4-G9-COB-LED-Silicone-Bulb-Spotlight-110-220V-/391715925091?var=&hash=item5b3416ac63:m:mrwoMbA2YvjG40ONihcipnw
01:31 AM XXCoder: wow
01:31 AM XXCoder: so many types
01:32 AM XXCoder: I got ti-84 cover. its silver edition lol so its weird on more regular ti-84 plus.
01:33 AM XXCoder: but surpising impossible to find black ones for regular plus
01:33 AM Crom: hmm 900-1000lm...
01:33 AM Crom: I prefer the ti-86
01:34 AM XXCoder: heh my ti-84 is over decade old
01:34 AM Crom: about what my ti-86 is...
01:34 AM XXCoder: one I just got looks same but definitely cleaner looking. cheaper than many of more abused ti-84s on ebay.
01:35 AM XXCoder: the silver edition cover cost me just over 4 bucks shipped
01:35 AM XXCoder: so its good all around
01:36 AM XXCoder: I wanted the space cover but 22 bucks little too much lol it'd be around half what I paid for tio-84 itself :P
01:36 AM Crom: hmm $14.95 for 5 warm white LED COB 9w e11's dimmable... still death bulbs
01:36 AM XXCoder: why call it death bulb
01:36 AM Crom: All the schools standardized on the ti-84... bastards
01:37 AM XXCoder: because it rocks hard! lol
01:38 AM Crom: bigclive.com bigclivedotcom on youtube... capacitive droppers... line voltage within finger touching range...
01:41 AM Crom: ahhh they ar covered in plastic
01:41 AM XXCoder: plastic all way down
01:46 AM XXCoder: calforniareached 67% renewable source of power
01:46 AM XXCoder: I cant wait for entire usa to become 100% renewable power, or in least most times.
01:47 AM Crom: Kali could get to 300% if they required easy chairs that collected farts...
02:03 AM Crom: I more want affordable AI...
02:14 AM Gene_home: Yo!
02:14 AM XXCoder: hey
02:15 AM Gene_home: you up 24-7?
02:15 AM XXCoder: nah I'm up 25/9
02:15 AM Gene_home: haha... reprap?
02:15 AM XXCoder: there I am up 23/6
02:19 AM Gene_home: I had question for you on reprap if you arent to busy
02:20 AM archivist: repcrap
02:21 AM XXCoder: glue gun machine yep heh
02:21 AM Deejay: moin
02:22 AM XXCoder: hey
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
02:41 AM XXCoder: hey
02:42 AM XXCoder: off I go to get food lTEE
02:42 AM XXCoder: later
02:45 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
03:07 AM IchGucksLive: till later
03:41 AM * Loetmichel gets his ass in the (Opel Omega) car, driving 200km to get a "new" engine for the 318i convertible... hope that will start once i mounted it in the BMW ;)
04:06 AM XXCoder: heh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TLM4ou0SYg
05:05 AM jthornton: morning
05:06 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:11 AM jthornton: 3hrs till heading for Texas
05:11 AM XXCoder: yay
05:11 AM XXCoder: so you picking me up right?
05:11 AM jthornton: still can't believe that I can't get that damn chicken door to work
05:11 AM XXCoder: damn it seemed nice, whats wrong now
05:12 AM jthornton: don't know, just can't get it to work... it goes down ok but won't come up
05:13 AM XXCoder: hmm some kind of grit would allow it to slide down since it pushs away, but if upwards it would put grit against moving part therefore stalling it?
05:13 AM jthornton: no, it's a problem with the code
05:13 AM XXCoder: well I kinda assumed sorry heh
05:14 AM jthornton: worked fine in the shop but not in the coop
05:15 AM XXCoder: weird
05:15 AM jthornton: yea drove me nuts yesterday
05:16 AM XXCoder: timer now right?
05:16 AM jthornton: I can't get timer or manual switch to work
05:18 AM jthornton: might get a little rain this morning :(
05:20 AM XXCoder: here is starting to enter "rain, where art thou" period season
05:20 AM XXCoder: it used to rain pretty often in summers
05:20 AM XXCoder: not anymore, not for couple decades
05:20 AM jthornton: and I have no idea what happened to my usage this month it just vanished
05:23 AM jthornton: oh well I fortified the run and coop some more to keep critters out so we will see
05:25 AM jthornton: hear some thunder now lol
05:37 AM jthornton: what blows my mind is the code is dead nuts simple and only a few lines long...
05:38 AM XXCoder: why doesnt it work outside but works fine inside?
05:38 AM XXCoder: thats thing you gonna answer
05:39 AM jthornton: but wait theres more then I bring the arduino back inside and it's not working there either
05:39 AM jthornton: strange for sure
05:39 AM XXCoder: whole door physical thing or just aruino with stepper
05:39 AM jthornton: oh well I'll solve that when I get back
05:40 AM jthornton: no stepper a dc motor and just the nano and a spare relay block and some switches for inputs
05:40 AM XXCoder: strange
05:40 AM XXCoder: well have a safe trip :)
05:41 AM jthornton: thanks
05:41 AM XXCoder: dont forget to pick me yp ;)
05:42 AM jthornton: meet me in Abilene that will be the nearest I get to you
05:43 AM XXCoder: lol
06:26 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ou-nyVd5hw&feature=em-uploademail
06:27 AM XXCoder: lol interesting trick to smooth rod end without a lathe but has drill press
06:29 AM JT-Shop: he didn't show laying out the center
06:29 AM JT-Shop: lol he's using a center bit not a starting bit
06:30 AM XXCoder: yeah thats his goal, to use center bit
06:31 AM JT-Shop: I mean he used a center bit for a lathe tail stock center not a starting bit to start the hole
06:34 AM XXCoder: ahh
06:35 AM XXCoder: so it was essentally a basic lathe lol
06:41 AM JT-Shop: that too
06:41 AM XXCoder: I really need to setup and test the $27 lathe
06:41 AM XXCoder: but I just cant get enough willpower :(
06:41 AM XXCoder: cant focus worth shit
07:01 AM JT-Shop: lol
07:02 AM XXCoder: dunno I really should ask doctor
07:02 AM XXCoder: its been like that most of my adult life
07:20 AM * malcom2073 resists making a focus/eye joke
07:21 AM malcom2073: XXCoder: Is it you that has the combonation
07:21 AM malcom2073: mill/drill/lathe machine?
07:21 AM XXCoder: nah I just has cnc router
07:23 AM malcom2073: Hmm, alright
07:24 AM JT-Shop: see everyone in Texarkana
07:24 AM XXCoder: later jt
07:53 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:04 AM * Loetmichel is back home with an 318i-engine... shouldnt have worried about the space in the trunk... i could have put in two of them and still had no need to fold the rear seats ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16649&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:19 AM archivist: challenge, get it fitted and running by midnight
09:22 AM malcom2073: Nice! How did you wind up loading it in?
09:23 AM malcom2073: Also: +1 to archivist's challenge
09:26 AM Loetmichel: archivist: i dont think so. have to assemble the engine hoist fist AND get the BMW home from the mechanic ;)
09:26 AM Loetmichel: malcom2073: 2 elderly men (me and the seller) and a bit of elbow grease
09:26 AM Loetmichel: its only 120kg or so ;)
09:27 AM archivist: minor problems, get on with it!
09:48 AM malcom2073: Nice
09:48 AM malcom2073: Glad it worked out ok for ya with (hopefully) no injuries
09:49 AM Loetmichel: of course no injurys. as i said: its not that heavvy without the gearbox. ists only an 1.8 liters 4 cylinder after all
09:49 AM Loetmichel: i could have probably lifted it alone in there... not that i will try if i have help ;)
10:54 AM IchGucksLive: hi from a suny germany
10:55 AM IchGucksLive: todaymostly mirror work for concrete masking
10:57 AM roycroft: hello from sunny oregon
10:58 AM tiwake: screw oregon
10:58 AM roycroft: today will be weeding and other gardening chores
10:58 AM roycroft: planting some flowers, i think
10:58 AM archivist: boring
10:58 AM tiwake: needs more industry
10:59 AM roycroft: most of my garden is culinary/medicinal
10:59 AM roycroft: so practical
10:59 AM tiwake: heh
10:59 AM tiwake: garlic?
10:59 AM roycroft: i have some garlic chives in
10:59 AM tiwake: garlic is amazing for almost everything
10:59 AM archivist: pot plants
10:59 AM roycroft: my veggie garden needs to be moved
10:59 AM tiwake: oh
10:59 AM tiwake: so
10:59 AM roycroft: and i'm not growing veggies these days because of that
11:00 AM tiwake: I'm debating to myself over what I should do
11:00 AM roycroft: if i want some pot i can go to the store and buy it
11:00 AM roycroft: i tend to grow things that are not as commonly procured
11:00 AM tiwake: where I work has an old CNC machine that just needs a new controller and not functional until then... I have permission to take it home and fix it, but as long as it stays company property
11:00 AM tiwake: I'm not sure I like that
11:01 AM Phipli: UK isn't so sunny. Last few days have been very hot.
11:01 AM Phipli: so hello from the pub
11:01 AM roycroft: yeah, i hear from a friend near manchester that it's been up around 30 degrees
11:01 AM roycroft: which is fairly normal here, but quite uncommonly hot there
11:01 AM tiwake: the other thing is I could make my own engraving machine
11:01 AM tiwake: but it would likely cost maybe $6,000-$7,000
11:02 AM Phipli: Yeah. No aircon
11:02 AM Phipli: and it was in the teens last week
11:02 AM Phipli: so we were suffering from thermal shock
11:02 AM roycroft: we should get up around 29 today
11:02 AM roycroft: it's a 3 day weekend here
11:03 AM tiwake: 85 here right now
11:03 AM tiwake: supposed to peak just under 100
11:03 AM Phipli: we broke our national "proportion of power generated by solar" yesterday
11:03 AM roycroft: oh, it's a bank holiday monday in the uk
11:03 AM roycroft: so 3 day weekend there as well
11:03 AM Phipli: roycroft : same here. bank holiday on monday
11:04 AM Phipli: sorry - typing not reading :)
11:05 AM roycroft: i was going to pick up some round bar yesterday from the steel yard so i could do more dialing in of my lathe, but did not make it in time
11:05 AM roycroft: and iit won't be open again until tuesday
11:05 AM roycroft: i've some other shop projects i can be working on over the weekend, though
11:06 AM Phipli: can you borrow some?
11:06 AM roycroft: no, i don't know anyone local who would have what i need
11:06 AM roycroft: but as i just said, i have other things i can do
11:06 AM Phipli: or pull an old printer to bits?
11:06 AM Phipli: <nods>
11:07 AM Phipli: might do some more on a silly project for a friend at work this weekend
11:07 AM Phipli: after garden+chicken chores
11:07 AM archivist: get ground steel bar with centers
11:08 AM Phipli: how do you know if it is the saddle or tailstock which is out?
11:09 AM archivist: if parallel and inline you dont care
11:09 AM archivist: I was using a bare here http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bench+harrison
11:11 AM Phipli: any of you ever made a jib strip for a cross slide?
11:11 AM Phipli: how much faff is it?
11:12 AM archivist: jibs are on cranes, gib :)
11:12 AM Phipli: for light work, would brass suffice
11:12 AM Phipli: my bad :)
11:12 AM archivist: a taper one will be interesting a parallel one not too hard at all
11:12 AM Phipli: repeats as above, but with a g
11:13 AM roycroft: jigs?
11:13 AM roycroft: those are for country dances
11:13 AM Phipli: it is a parallelogram - not tapered
11:13 AM Phipli: or alignment tools
11:13 AM archivist: file the top/bottom
11:14 AM archivist: only one face in contact and the adjustment screws
11:14 AM Phipli: it has 3 grub screws - how precise should it be? or can I tweak it close enough?
11:15 AM roycroft: the better it's made the smoother the action
11:15 AM roycroft: it's up to you
11:15 AM archivist: if you already have one, just adjust or scrape the dovetails where the real problems may be
11:15 AM Phipli: It is the get it made or make it question
11:16 AM Phipli: was missing from the lathe
11:16 AM archivist: make it
11:16 AM roycroft: you can make it
11:16 AM roycroft: it doesn't even take a tremendous amount of skill
11:16 AM roycroft: just a bit of patience
11:16 AM Phipli: need to fix my mill first...
11:16 AM Phipli: sigh
11:16 AM roycroft: you can make it with files and sandpaper
11:16 AM archivist: you wont need the mill
11:17 AM Phipli: good files and time
11:17 AM roycroft: and some prussian blue
11:17 AM archivist: just buy a strip the right thickness
11:17 AM roycroft: or even dykem, for this
11:17 AM archivist: stevens blue over here
11:18 AM Phipli: I have some metric stock was planning to skim down a bit to the imperial size
11:18 AM archivist: the real thing TM
11:18 AM archivist: as the back is not in contact file/whatever
11:19 AM roycroft: my cross slide and top slide are pretty tight, fortunately
11:19 AM archivist: my old hobbymat was terrible
11:19 AM roycroft: there's excessive backlash in the cross slide screw (about 0.015")
11:19 AM IchGucksLive: Q does someone know how to get cheep flipdot matrix doe dro display
11:19 AM roycroft: so i'll try to get rid of some of that
11:20 AM Phipli: IchGucksLive : I've seen them second had on ebay
11:20 AM roycroft: the dials on both the cross slide and top slide are really tight, though, and even when i unscrew the set screws so they're totally loose i cannot turn them very far
11:20 AM Phipli: removed from train stations etc.
11:20 AM roycroft: so that's something i need to spend some time on
11:20 AM IchGucksLive: yes bus rear number display
11:21 AM Phipli: seven seg or dots?
11:21 AM Phipli: seven segment is mor common from clocks etc
11:21 AM IchGucksLive: NY city discloses 10 buses a day but cand find parts
11:21 AM Phipli: if that is what you want
11:22 AM Phipli: they're interesting things
11:23 AM seb_kuzm1nsky is now known as seb_kuzminsky
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: Phipli: https://picclick.co.uk/Hanover-S300C-Side-Rear-Flip-Dot-Matirx-Bus-112280279870.html
11:23 AM roycroft: oh no
11:23 AM roycroft: we had an anti-muslim double murder in portland yesterday
11:23 AM Phipli: seen this? https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwi9sJiLt5DUAhVDKcAKHX0UDCkQxa8BCBwwAA&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA
11:24 AM roycroft: a man was abusing two muslim-looking women on a tri-met train
11:24 AM Phipli: roycroft : the was something in the news here I think
11:24 AM roycroft: three men intervened, and two were stabbed to death, whilt the third suffered serious stabbing wounds
11:25 AM Phipli: some people tried to stop someone abusing a couple of young girls on the train?
11:25 AM Phipli: got stabbed _
11:25 AM Phipli: same incident?
11:25 AM roycroft: yes
11:25 AM Phipli: sigh
11:25 AM roycroft: we have our fair share of white supremecists here, that's for sure
11:25 AM roycroft: but this kind of violence is quite unusual
11:26 AM Phipli: we're about to have an election - not the time for this crap
11:26 AM Phipli: drives the undecided types to the right
11:26 AM roycroft: the manchester bombing was timed for the election, i'm sure
11:26 AM roycroft: yes
11:27 AM roycroft: hopefully towards ukip, though, not the toreys
11:27 AM Phipli: generally things are good here
11:27 AM roycroft: because ukip will continue to have little influence
11:27 AM roycroft: so votes for them are mostly wasted votes
11:27 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
11:28 AM Phipli: or police are better at spotting people than they should be, and racism is the exception
11:28 AM Phipli: *our
11:28 AM roycroft: you're much closer to being a surveillance state than we are
11:28 AM roycroft: much much closer
11:28 AM Phipli: I wish we didn't have parties and just voted for the local representative
11:29 AM Phipli: roycroft : yes
11:29 AM Phipli: cctv everywhere
11:29 AM roycroft: i've always been a strong advocate for making government as local as possible
11:30 AM roycroft: i think the federal government should set broad domestic policy, and for the most part, let the states implement it
11:30 AM Phipli: tories removed a lot of council powers in the 80s
11:30 AM roycroft: foreign/defense policy needs to be federal, of course
11:31 AM roycroft: you've had the same consolidation of ideology that we have had, but not quite as severe
11:31 AM roycroft: democrats and republicans here are increasingly difficult to distinguish from each other on policy, and both have moved far to the right
11:31 AM Phipli: until recently our two main parties got closer and closer to the same
11:32 AM roycroft: which is happening with labour and conservatives in the uk
11:32 AM Phipli: there was a backlash within one of the parties
11:32 AM roycroft: starting especially with tony blair on the labour side
11:32 AM Phipli: now things are... complicated
11:32 AM roycroft: yes
11:32 AM roycroft: corbyn is trying to take labour back to its roots
11:32 AM roycroft: but he's the most divisive major party leader in ages
11:32 AM Phipli: but the tories are a better pr machine
11:33 AM roycroft: labour needed a complete and total blairite purge before electing a leader like corbyn, and that did not happen
11:33 AM Phipli: and the media is generally rigjt leaning
11:33 AM Phipli: *right
11:33 AM roycroft: yes, just as in the us
11:33 AM Phipli: corbin was selected by the /party/ not the mps
11:34 AM Phipli: hence issue
11:35 AM roycroft: right
11:35 AM roycroft: the inner party are still blairites
11:35 AM roycroft: but the party itself want to become labour again
11:35 AM roycroft: not neo-liberals
11:36 AM Phipli: left wing voters have been unrepresented for a couple of decades
11:36 AM Phipli: although it seems numbers have diminished
11:37 AM roycroft: again, exactly as is here
11:37 AM Phipli: probably due to their absence in the media and politics
11:37 AM roycroft: we have one major party that is slightly right of center
11:37 AM roycroft: and the other major party that is far right
11:39 AM * roycroft thinks weeding his lavender bed is probably more productive than discussing politics, and wanders off to do so
11:40 AM suavesteve: Try being from N. Ireland, where we haven't had a government for almost 5 months, 'cause of this crap...
11:40 AM Phipli: enjoy :)
11:41 AM Phipli: suavesteve : it would be nice if they all remembered their job was to repredent and look after us
11:42 AM Phipli: *represent
11:42 AM Phipli: sigh
11:42 AM Phipli: anyways
11:43 AM Phipli: so how do you re-turn a morse taper? <distracts>
11:44 AM suavesteve: With a tapered cylindrical grinder?
11:44 AM archivist: I have taper turning :)
11:46 AM Loetmichel: Phipli: between centers and with a CBN tool hard turning would be my guess
11:47 AM Phipli: to harden it at the same time?
11:47 AM archivist: to cut hardened
11:49 AM Loetmichel: to cut it in the hardened state
11:49 AM Loetmichel: no need to anneal, turn, reharden, grind the stuff
11:49 AM Loetmichel: if you can just turn it in the hardened state ;)
11:50 AM Phipli: mmmm carbide?
11:51 AM Phipli: the smell of blue chips and coolant in the morning
11:51 AM archivist: but...cutting a skin off will release some stress and it may bend
11:51 AM gregcnc: is it hard to begin with?
11:52 AM archivist: and why
11:52 AM Phipli: It was a hypothetical / interest only question to distract from politics
11:52 AM Loetmichel: Phipli: cubical boron nitride
11:52 AM Loetmichel: nearly as hard as diamond
11:53 AM Phipli: interesting
11:53 AM Loetmichel: cuts thru 60hrc steel like HSS thru aluminium
11:54 AM Phipli: does it cause any issues with the workbotself?
11:54 AM Phipli: grr
11:54 AM Phipli: Itself*
11:54 AM sync: no
11:55 AM Phipli: do you just anneal? or no need?
11:55 AM sync: no
11:55 AM sync: you turn hard material
11:55 AM sync: otherwise it would not be hard turning
11:55 AM archivist: depends in case or through hardened
11:55 AM archivist: in/on
11:55 AM sync: you only surpass the annealing temp in the cutting zone
11:56 AM gregcnc: what kind of lathe are you using?
11:56 AM archivist: hmmm Hay on Wye festival tomorrow
11:56 AM Phipli: gregcnc - none atm - need to sort the gib strip first
11:58 AM Phipli: but it isn't anything special. Forget the make but some kind of belt drive 1940s thing
11:58 AM archivist: drummond?
12:00 PM archivist: Tyzack, Gammages, Britannia
12:00 PM Phipli: I'm in 'spoons atm
12:00 PM archivist: http://www.lathes.co.uk/
12:00 PM Phipli: but can check later :)
12:08 PM Phiplii: Grayson?
12:08 PM Phiplii: probably?
12:09 PM Phiplii: http://www.lathes.co.uk/grayson/index.html
12:10 PM Phiplii: It has never been operational so I've not spent too much time staring at it
12:13 PM archivist: will only take an hour or three to make a gib
12:13 PM archivist: I will check tomorrow on progress :)
12:16 PM Phiplii: progress will be slow. still in pub :p
12:19 PM tiwake: _methods: you around?
12:20 PM _methods: yo
12:21 PM tiwake: _methods: should I spend $7,000 over a long period and build a nice CNC engraving machine? or should I spend just a little bit and upgrade the controller for a CNC engraving machine for the company that I work for, but will never own it...
12:22 PM LeelooMinai: $7k engraving machine? :)
12:22 PM LeelooMinai: Is it some commercial setup?
12:22 PM tiwake: LeelooMinai: half of the money would be spent on this http://www.artcotools.com/compete-nsk-e3000-series-spindle-system-60-000-rpm.html
12:23 PM LeelooMinai: A, I thought it is some hobby project:>
12:24 PM _methods: um i'd spend the money on myself lol
12:25 PM archivist: a far cheaper spindle would be ok for hobby
12:25 PM LeelooMinai: lol, it's comete-nisk. I read it complete-risk
12:25 PM tiwake: _methods: that is money I'm spending on myself
12:25 PM LeelooMinai: Er, compete-nsk
12:26 PM _methods: i'd spend my money on something i get to keep
12:26 PM tiwake: _methods: I've got to come up with a way to make more money
12:26 PM _methods: hahahah join the club
12:26 PM _methods: male prostitution is ok if you spend the money on cnc stuff
12:26 PM _methods: or at least that's what i tell myself
12:26 PM archivist: retire is the best way to get money
12:26 PM _methods: $20 is $20 hahahah
12:27 PM Phiplii: I expect to die working
12:27 PM Phiplii: too young for real pensions
12:27 PM tiwake: _methods: without a way to make more money I will not be able to build a machine shop for myself in a reasonable amount of time
12:28 PM archivist: tiwake, there are some pretty good homebrew spindles that get to 20k rpm
12:29 PM _methods: robbing banks?
12:29 PM archivist: start earning then upgrade
12:29 PM _methods: just don't get caught
12:29 PM _methods: they frown upon that for some reason
12:30 PM _methods: i mean what did they expect would happen when you stuff a building full of money
12:30 PM tiwake: archivist: it won't be as good/nice as that NSK one
12:30 PM Phiplii: _methods - if you're engraving, it isn't much different to cut PCBs
12:30 PM Phiplii: might give you an extra bit of market
12:31 PM Phiplii: light work for the machine
12:31 PM archivist: tiwake, best is not always the most profitable
12:31 PM Phiplii: but wears tools if you don't take care with the depth
12:31 PM tiwake: _methods: I think I might do both... start with that engraving machine my work place has... I have permission to take it home and do whatever as long as it stays company property... I could toss in the intel atom D510 system I have in it for a controller
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: the D525Mw is the best i own
12:32 PM tiwake: archivist: I don't want to cut my wrists from crappy components and not have a nice thing after all the effort put in
12:37 PM tiwake: iunno
12:37 PM tiwake: I guess I could do both
12:42 PM LeelooMinai: NSK is Japan?
12:42 PM tiwake: _methods: should I do something else?
12:42 PM LeelooMinai: Seems it's one of the companies Chinese like to clone.
12:43 PM tiwake: _methods: I suppose I could maybe get a second job... but enh.. iunno
12:43 PM LeelooMinai: A, they do bearinggs, duh, I knew that
12:49 PM _methods: yeah i guess you could buy your own stuff to upgrade your work machibone then just pull it off and put it on your own machine once you get it bought and built
12:51 PM tiwake: _methods: they are more about hoarding than being douches... I don't expect it to be a problem, and likely won't care if I keep the machine for years...
12:51 PM tiwake: they are kind of strange like that
12:51 PM _methods: well that's easy then use theirs
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqx9w80diKo power sculping on chees
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: the Rot achsis got a 5Deg backlash
01:21 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm...
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: but on 20USD its ok
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 from Germany
01:23 PM LeelooMinai: I am guessing it's some "display" chess, because no one would play with little sculpted heads:)
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: its only for education use
01:24 PM LeelooMinai: Right
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: no use at all
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: students love it
01:26 PM IchGucksLive: and ones a year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjMJOfCyDaA
01:26 PM IchGucksLive: robocam goes mad
01:29 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:54 PM * LeelooMinai scratches the head
02:16 PM Loetmichel: hmmm... just watched an episode of ST:voyager (S3E02) ... Jaeway said "i would be grateful to ride shotgun with that bunch"... i had to google the meaning of that. Is that a still used expression in american english today?
02:17 PM SpeedEvil: yes
02:20 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: It measns sitting next to the driver (but in past it was the person steerring horses) with, well, a shotgun for protection (like from robbers, indians, etc.:)
02:20 PM SpeedEvil: telemarketers
02:20 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: i know. i jsut wanted to know if that still is in use today
02:21 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, I heared it quite a lot - it's a well-known saying
02:21 PM LeelooMinai: A bit western-like, but people use it:)
02:23 PM LeelooMinai: Unfortunatelly in English idioms are everywhere and without looking some up they don't make any sense. And I am sure even native English speaking people use many having no idea what they are based on...
02:24 PM LeelooMinai: Few I had to look up / reasearch, I remember that were confusing to me was "red herring" and "no holds barred", for example. But once you look their history, they start making sense:)
02:24 PM Loetmichel: no hold barred is new to me ;)
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, lol, it actually is pretty logical, once you see that hold = a vertical log they used in the past to block doors and barred is a verb that denotes that they are in place. So "no holds barred" preaty means "unlocked gate" aka no restrictions, etc.
02:28 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/kyoto-japan-march-security-guard-blue-uniform-locks-large-wooden-entrance-gate-to-nijo-castle-kyoto-japan-29899397.jpg
02:28 PM LeelooMinai: ^ barred gate with a hold
02:28 PM Loetmichel: "full access"
02:29 PM Loetmichel: i get it
02:29 PM mman1506: it works! http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Touch-Revolution-K21A-0101-A0-Wide-Touch-Screen-Industrial-Monitor-LCD-21-5/172412152465?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
02:30 PM LeelooMinai: Well, from what I have seen is more like "no limits" - like in a fight, when you say "no hold barred" you would mean that no rules, no restrictions, just full steam ahead.
02:30 PM LeelooMinai: no holds*
02:30 PM Loetmichel: mman1506: nice. would be to large for my CNC setup at home tho ;)
02:30 PM mman1506: if your looking for a touchscreen buy this! they are nearly out
02:30 PM LeelooMinai: mman1506: It does? I will have it in dew days too - win:)
02:30 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- thats a 15" display there, and its already too large ;)
02:31 PM mman1506: i can see :D
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: Well, is it 1920 though?
02:31 PM mman1506: yep
02:31 PM mman1506: looks ips too
02:31 PM mman1506: luckily my cnc is quite a bit larger
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: I meant that 15 inch one. I got excited about that one I ordered because it's full HD. So when I x1vvnc remotely I will aso have nice big screen.
02:32 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14313&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- since then i made one myself out of a 12" thinkpad display (1024*786) and a cheap chinese dvi->lvds converter
02:32 PM mman1506: https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18491795_1500259976659896_1903444543162762868_o.jpg?oh=56ca08da88fbd3432443339c7d0ac0b6&oe=59E79D46
02:33 PM Loetmichel: mman1506: THAT looks a bit "stuffed" ;)
02:33 PM LeelooMinai: Looks like a perfect place to work - if you are a hobbit 10cm tall:)
02:33 PM mman1506: The pic makes the garage look tiny it's actually decent sized
02:34 PM mman1506: mill will still take up like an 1/8th of the garage
02:34 PM mman1506: but that's alright
02:34 PM mman1506: it was cheap
02:35 PM Phiplii: Loetmichel : in the uk, people shout "shotgun" to claim the front passenger seat
02:36 PM Phiplii: there are all sorts of rules governing when you can
02:36 PM Loetmichel: Phiplii: i know. i just didnt knew that is still used, considering it originated from the american "wild west" stage coaches
02:37 PM malcom2073: king of the hill is my favorite response to shotgun
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: I would shout BFG! :)
02:39 PM Phiplii: dominating....
02:39 PM Phiplii: to switch to ut
02:40 PM Phiplii: the Redeemer was the UT hidden gun wasn't it
02:40 PM LeelooMinai: rampage...
02:40 PM Phiplii: great fun
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: as kids we would call it first to ride in the front seat of the car
02:40 PM Phiplii: UT2004 is still fun
02:41 PM Phiplii: CaptHindsight : that sounds like it means something else
02:41 PM LeelooMinai: Well, the seat by the driver is same as shotgun seat in those stage coaches, so it at least makes sense:)
02:41 PM Loetmichel: Phiplii: i used to get a "headshot" and "cylly is (on) a killing spree" quite often.
02:41 PM Loetmichel: to an extend that i got kicked frim multiple servers for "aimbotting"...
02:41 PM Phiplii: :)
02:42 PM Loetmichel: i wsnt tho
02:42 PM Phiplii: we went and spied to a housemate once to make sure they weren't cheating
02:43 PM Phiplii: tricksy hobbits
02:43 PM Phiplii: they weren't either. just unfairly good
02:43 PM Loetmichel: <. used to headshot enemys acros the map with the plasma pistol ;)
02:43 PM LeelooMinai: "but he wasn't there because he went to our house to see if we spy on him" :)
02:44 PM Phiplii: *housemate*
02:44 PM Loetmichel: Phiplii: i know that feeling from the other perspective
02:44 PM Phiplii: :)
02:44 PM Loetmichel: its quite puzzeling sometimes to see the enemy just be "stupid"
02:45 PM Phiplii: I was always good with the railgun.... but rusty now
02:45 PM LeelooMinai: I liked the flak cannon - you did not have to aim or anything, just shoot directly or even towards a wall and it would probably hit anyways:p
02:45 PM Loetmichel: <- "maaan thats toooo easy! Put some ffort in it please!"
02:46 PM Loetmichel: which game had that crossbow with the exploding arrows again?
02:46 PM Loetmichel: HL?
02:46 PM Loetmichel: those were nice if you had enough ammo
02:46 PM LeelooMinai: I guess I did not play that one.
02:46 PM Phiplii: if you're going to use the flak cannon, aim at the floor in front of them
02:47 PM LeelooMinai: Just aim - as long as it's not perpendicular to a wall, it's fine:)
02:47 PM Phiplii: don't remember the exploding arrows
02:47 PM Phiplii: Played L4D2 for the first time in a while this week
02:47 PM LeelooMinai: Phiplii: Probably you were unconcsious from the blast:p
02:48 PM Phiplii: can't believe it is 10 years or so old
02:48 PM LeelooMinai: What do you mean, it's already 2007?
02:48 PM * LeelooMinai checks the calendar and faints
02:49 PM malcom2073: I vaugly remember exploding arrows
02:49 PM Phiplii: :) boss was taking the piss because I keep writing 2015 in a log book
02:49 PM Phiplii: it is /almost/ 2015
02:50 PM Phiplii: 0.01% error
02:50 PM LeelooMinai: Seriously, the older you get, the faster the time goes - I knew that, but did not know it's such a radical difference.
02:51 PM Phiplii: summer holidays :)
02:51 PM Phiplii: how many years did they last?
02:51 PM LeelooMinai: when I was ten I remember thinking "Whooole weeek?!" and now a week is like it was one day:)
02:52 PM Phiplii: :)
02:53 PM LeelooMinai: Er, just took those rubber + cork anti-vibration pads from the box - holy cow, they smell - I mean I literally taste them now.
02:54 PM LeelooMinai: I hope they are not toxic.
02:54 PM LeelooMinai: I think I will shrink-wrap them:)
03:03 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm my plan to organize my room did not work that well - probably because I bought a lot of boxes and stacked them in the corner feeling good about the effort.
03:04 PM malcom2073: Heh I know them feels
03:06 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: and then you get stuck with stacking ht eboxes again and again to get to your stuff
03:06 PM Loetmichel: i know that feeling...
03:07 PM Loetmichel: took me nearly three years from this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3069&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:08 PM LeelooMinai: I hate the day when I have to clean the floor from different hardware, gadgets, etc. - it takes me ages, since I have to think about everything I find there: "Hmm, what is it for, is it for some old project, let me see, I need to check my project directory... o, new YouTube video, must see it"
03:08 PM Loetmichel: to this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=1149
03:08 PM LeelooMinai: The second one requires login.
03:09 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11492&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:10 PM Loetmichel: forgot half the link ;)
03:10 PM Loetmichel: sorry
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: Well, much better, yes.
03:10 PM Phiplii: hum
03:11 PM Phiplii: time to find a bus
03:11 PM Loetmichel: also those frames are from industrial high load shelves
03:11 PM Phiplii: laters folks
03:11 PM Loetmichel: they are good for half a metric ton per shelve board
03:50 PM phipli: and home
04:00 PM Loetmichel: phipli: thats a short commute
04:42 PM Deejay: gn8
04:44 PM phipli: Loetmichel, public busses are quite good here - that includes walking across town, talking to a neighbour while waiting for the bus and the trip home
04:48 PM Phipliii: cycling to work is 12 minutes which is nice
05:19 PM roycroft: well, i got my primary task done before succumbing to heat stroke
05:19 PM roycroft: and it's only 26 at the moment
05:19 PM roycroft: but we have about 3 more hours of warming today, so it might hit 30 yet
05:20 PM * roycroft is enjoying a nice pint of bitter while pondering going back out and tackling another gardening task
05:20 PM roycroft: oh, and i pulled a stump today that i was not planning on doing!
05:20 PM roycroft: so i'm ahead of schedule
05:24 PM JT-Mobile: Phipliii, had some problems with the chicken door had to abandon it till I return
05:25 PM JT-Mobile: hello from Texarkana TX
06:04 PM tiwake: JT-Mobile: you moving there? or vacation?
06:08 PM JT-Mobile: vacation
06:09 PM JT-Mobile: touring Texas for 10 days
06:10 PM tiwake: JT-Mobile: lemme know when you get to lubbock
06:17 PM JT-Mobile: we are not going that far west :)
06:17 PM tiwake: well, I've never been any further east
06:17 PM JT-Mobile: we are going to Waco tomorrow
06:17 PM tiwake: thats not quite true
06:17 PM tiwake: JT-Mobile: going to the DFW area?
06:18 PM JT-Mobile: no, skipping that going straight from Texarkana to Waco
06:18 PM tiwake: fail
06:18 PM tiwake: why even go to texas then?
06:19 PM JT-Mobile: BBQ, Mexican...
06:19 PM JT-Mobile: trying to avoid large cities lol
06:20 PM tiwake: every city is a large city
06:20 PM LeelooMinai: Vacation in Texas... For some reason that sounds pretty scary to me:)
06:20 PM tiwake: if its more than 50,000 people, its a large city
06:21 PM JT-Mobile: ya
06:21 PM tiwake: LeelooMinai: only if you hate guns
06:21 PM JT-Mobile: don't hate guns
06:23 PM LeelooMinai: Well it's a bit confusing to me: on one hand all the news around suggests that Texas is pretty backwards state, but I know that some pretty cutting edge companies, like Texas Instruments, are located there...
06:23 PM malcom2073: So, what has this taught you about the news?
06:23 PM tiwake: its the fake news depicting conservatives as knuckle dragging half-apes
06:24 PM LeelooMinai: I was not saying "suggest" as in "they are misleading":)
06:24 PM * JT-Mobile never looks at the "news"
06:24 PM gregcnc_ is now known as gregcnc
06:27 PM _methods: log log its fun for girls and boys
06:28 PM LeelooMinai: O, look, that's me at the top.
06:34 PM LeelooMinai: tiwake: Conservatives, democrats... Seriously, I don't know who "invented" political parties, but I find the whole idea a fail. Instead of working on issues one by one, people end up in internal battles that benefit no one and validate making stupid decisions as long as they hurt the oither side.
06:35 PM Cromaglious_: LeelooMinai, so true... but look at the idiot we elected down here... I even voted for him, because I could not stomach have her or Bernie in there...
06:35 PM LeelooMinai: It's all wrong, messed up, and will end bad - I am giving up on finding any logic in politics.
06:35 PM Cromaglious_: LeelooMinai,The only logic is follow the money...
06:36 PM tiwake: LeelooMinai: http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/obama-lowers-sea-levels-but-sadly-discovers-atlantis-t2168.html
06:37 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I don't know what that site is, but the first impression is not good:)
06:37 PM tiwake: it explains the history of everything
06:37 PM LeelooMinai: lol, right...
06:37 PM tiwake: as discovered in the ancient historical artifacts found in atlantis
06:39 PM Cromaglious_: Look at King John back in 1200 something in england... lost the ENTIRE english treasury in a river. speaks something about how much money was around back then.... not much...
06:39 PM LeelooMinai: Cromaglious_: With Bernie at least you would have a chance to not be thrown under the bus by rich people.
06:40 PM LeelooMinai: Now it's kind of too late.
06:40 PM Cromaglious_: I've lived in socialist countries... no thank you...
06:41 PM tiwake: a proper progressive socialist... oh what fun it is to be valued the same as everybody else
06:41 PM roycroft: it's never too late, leeloominai
06:42 PM * roycroft is off to try to find a hunk of steel
06:42 PM roycroft: i remembered a scrap yard that's open today
06:44 PM phiplii: tiwake : would you really call 50,000 a city?
06:45 PM tiwake: phiplii: I grew up in a city of 5,000
06:45 PM tiwake: an order of magnitude less
06:45 PM phiplii: heh
06:45 PM phiplii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Davids
06:45 PM phiplii: Smallest we've got
06:45 PM phiplii: for history reasons and stuff
06:46 PM phiplii: Population 1,841, but it has had a Cathedral for most of a thousand years
06:46 PM phiplii: which along with a couple of other things makes it officially a city
06:47 PM LeelooMinai: Cromaglious_: But that's absurd... You don't think that his plan was to make US "socialist"? That's neither the case nor even remotely possible. He is more about government not beying run by money, taking care of peoples health, etc. All this would end up with would be probably a chance to avoid total corruption and decay of government with time, if US got lucky. Anyone who thinks that Bernie = socialist/comunnist US, must be on
06:47 PM LeelooMinai: mushrooms or something imo:p
06:48 PM Cromaglious_: Capital "city" of North Dakota is I think 8900 people...
06:49 PM phiplii: weird
06:49 PM phiplii: I live in what is considered a small city
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: But, that bus is gone now.
06:49 PM phiplii: at ~250,000 people
06:49 PM Cromaglious_: I'm in a "small city" 110,000
06:50 PM LeelooMinai: In 1800 250k would probably be a big city:)
06:52 PM Cromaglious_: London was 500,000 in 1700, 1 million people in 1800, 6.5 million in 1900, 8.6 million today
06:53 PM LeelooMinai: Somehow no one seems doing anything about overpopulation - don't know why that is, but what is the plan here? Obviously if it will grow and grow, all you will get is more and more people starving, being poor, etc. and eventually some catastrophe, being a global war or other consequence.
06:53 PM phiplii: time to go to mars?
06:55 PM Cromaglious_: new york in 1800 was 80,000, 1900 3.4 million, 2010 8.2million
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: All of it will explode probably in not so far away future. You cannot have people multiplying idefinitely and getting more and more idiotic when it comes to economy, politics, etc.
06:58 PM phiplii: its ok
06:58 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, it's wonderful:p
06:58 PM phiplii: as there gets less food to go around it gets more expensive to feed kids
06:58 PM phiplii: so people will have less kids
06:58 PM LeelooMinai: Right, like that seems to stop anyone...
06:58 PM phiplii: heh
06:59 PM phiplii: hum
06:59 PM phiplii: it does seem to be tomorrow
07:50 PM andypugh: What would be a nice way to connect up a 4th axis? I seem to need some sort of connector that is swarf and coolant-proof when un-mated and that offers 3 high-current pins + 6 differential encoder, 6 differential Hall and (potentially) limit switches.
07:52 PM andypugh: 13W3 is at least 2 pins short, and is not particulary rugged.
07:53 PM jdh: 2 connectors.
07:58 PM andypugh: Pragmatic
08:04 PM andypugh: The current servo-driven 4th axis connects to one of the pair of 13W3 connectors I put on the side of the control box.
08:05 PM andypugh: I probably could use that, with the encoder fully-differential and the Hall-sensors not.
08:08 PM Loetmichel: andypugh: i would suggest a speacon/powercon for the powerlines and a second military/aviation type round connector with a bajonet sleeve
08:08 PM Loetmichel: THAT is "rugged"
08:08 PM andypugh: I was tending towards Speakon. I use them a lot
08:09 PM Loetmichel: or, if thats to expensive: use mutliple neutrik XLR connectors. they are aviable up to 7 pins... and quite rugged
08:10 PM cpresser: andypugh: if you have nop space limitations, also check out harting connectors
08:10 PM cpresser: http://www.harting-usa.com/uploads/pics/Han_Rectangular2_470x256_01.jpg
08:10 PM Loetmichel_: i must warn you though: the military plugs are a PITA to crimp/put together...
08:10 PM Loetmichel_: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9012&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:10 PM cpresser: and similar ones
08:11 PM andypugh: Logical choice might be the same M23 connectors as my other servos use.
08:11 PM andypugh: But would need to make blanking caps
08:13 PM Loetmichel_: that picture was a "fun job" btw. and a rush job to... "make half a dozen mil spec DVI cables. TH is pinout. Delivery guy comes tomorrw at 0700 to get them and ship them to the swiss customer"... said my boss at 1700 hours...
08:13 PM Loetmichel_: i nearly did it
08:13 PM Loetmichel_: the delivery courier only had to wait half an hour ;)
08:14 PM andypugh: I got one of these, and my Lemo and M23 connector populating life was transformed
08:14 PM andypugh: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007G5QBDC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
08:15 PM Loetmichel_: but that was the time i noticed that i am not 20 anymore... took quite a toll on me to work thru the night ;)
08:15 PM andypugh: Unlike the expensive ones, that one is adustable.
08:15 PM Loetmichel_: i have one of the original ones intended for these plugs
08:16 PM andypugh: I can’t see why you would get this one instead: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/DIY-Tools/Platinum-Tools-13010C-Point-Indent-Crimp-Clamshell/B00GS6XTLW/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1495932113&sr=8-12&keywords=indent+crimp
08:16 PM Loetmichel_: the crimping wasnt the bad part.
08:17 PM Loetmichel_: getting the DVI pairs onto the plug in a way that doesent change the wave imedance was a challenge though
08:17 PM andypugh: DVI through the wrong connectors ought to specify bad picture quality as a risk.
08:18 PM roycroft: awesome
08:18 PM roycroft: i found some bolts whose shanks fit in my headstock spindle and whose heads are big enough to turn down to the size of my tailstock spindle
08:18 PM roycroft: at $0.50 each, i got two, so i can have a second go if i get overzealous in my turning
08:19 PM * roycroft likes when things turn out well like that
08:19 PM andypugh: I have no idea what you are describing.
08:19 PM roycroft: a tailstock alignment technique
08:20 PM roycroft: mount a piece of round in a chuck in the headstock
08:20 PM andypugh: What is a tailstock spindle? Where do bolts need to fit in either? Why do the heads need turning down?
08:20 PM Loetmichel_: andypugh: thats why i said: it was a challenge to get it thru
08:20 PM roycroft: turn it down to the exact diameter of the tailstock spindle
08:20 PM roycroft: or whatever you call the thing with the morse taper in the tailstock
08:20 PM Loetmichel_: we have the neccessary equipment to measure reflection and stuff at these frequencys
08:20 PM roycroft: but the tailstock to the piece that's in the chuck
08:20 PM roycroft: run an indicator across both to check alignment
08:21 PM andypugh: I think it’s a “ram” ocasionally a “quill"
08:21 PM roycroft: oh, ok
08:21 PM roycroft: sorry
08:21 PM roycroft: i guess that makes more sense, since it is not supposed to spin around
08:21 PM Loetmichel_: isnt quill the thing on a drill press or vertical knee mill?
08:21 PM roycroft: instead of a spindle it would be a holdsfastle
08:22 PM roycroft: holdfastle
08:22 PM andypugh: You could use this as an excuse to buy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/DIY-Tools/Dial-Co-Axial-Centering-Alignment-Indicator-Rotary-table/B00CIR0PTO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495932683&sr=8-1&keywords=coaxial+indicator
08:22 PM roycroft: i don't want to buy a coaxial indicator at the moment
08:22 PM roycroft: it's on my list of stuff to get, but not near the top
08:22 PM andypugh: Loetmichel_: Yes, I think “quill” is wrong, but sometimes used.
08:22 PM roycroft: it's analagous to a quill
08:23 PM roycroft: it holds a tapered toolholder
08:23 PM roycroft: it moves along its axis fairly precisely
08:23 PM roycroft: it does not rotate
08:23 PM roycroft: all those are things it has in common with a quill
08:24 PM roycroft: it's even in the same axial orientation as a drill press/milling machine quill
08:24 PM Loetmichel_: only that the tool in a quill rotates
08:24 PM Loetmichel_: (is driven usually)
08:24 PM roycroft: well in a drill press/milling machine, the spindle rotates
08:24 PM roycroft: but the spindle is moved axially by the quill
08:25 PM roycroft: a random lathe manual i grabbed describes it as the "tailstock quill"
08:26 PM roycroft: so i'll go with that, since both the lathe manual and andypugh prefer that nomenclature
08:27 PM Loetmichel_: who am i though to question a native english speaker...
08:27 PM roycroft: we question each other quite often
08:28 PM roycroft: feel free to join in the inquisition
08:29 PM roycroft: as is often said, the us and england are two great nations, divided by a common language
08:31 PM Loetmichel_: thats a quote from twain IIRC
08:31 PM Loetmichel_: ah, google says shaw, sorry ;)
08:32 PM roycroft: and a big puddle notwithstanding
08:34 PM Loetmichel_: <-learned oxford english in school... only to get it totally twisted by the 1000s of hollywood films/series i watched. ;)
08:34 PM Loetmichel_: ... not to mentoin the talk here on IRC ;)
08:34 PM roycroft: i enjoy learning different dialects
08:34 PM roycroft: and i'm pretty good at them, from what i'm told
08:35 PM Loetmichel_: fun fact: i tend to soak up even the local dialects here in germany to a certain extend
08:35 PM LeelooMinai: In the future this quote may need to be modified to "two great nations, one of them even bigly" :)
08:35 PM roycroft: my high school german teacher was from hannover, and when i went to germany after that folks thought i was from hannover, not the us
08:35 PM roycroft: so that affirmed that i'm a good mimic
08:35 PM Loetmichel_: takes me two weeks and i stat to use the same mannerisms als the locals if i move to a new location
08:35 PM roycroft: two great nations, bigly divided by a common language
08:36 PM roycroft: two great nations, bigly divided by a terrific common language
08:36 PM Loetmichel_: <- still cant sake the "moi moin" (good morning, traditional greeting for all day in the northnortheast corner of germany) i contracted while i was at the navvy ;)
08:36 PM roycroft: two YUUUUUUUUUUGE nations, bigly divided by a terrific common language
08:37 PM Loetmichel_: shake
08:37 PM LeelooMinai: lol @ Trump shoving the NATO guy and fixing his suit
08:37 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: have you seen "kingsmen"?
08:37 PM roycroft: yes, i have
08:38 PM Loetmichel_: that was loveley how eggsy moved and talked in the pub at the end ;)
08:38 PM Loetmichel_: VERY funny
08:40 PM roycroft: i was somewhat embarrassed to be an american during the bush regime
08:40 PM roycroft: but i'm becoming ashamed to be an american during the trump regime
08:41 PM roycroft: anyway
08:41 PM LeelooMinai: I know Bush was not a good president, but I kind of liked him - for some reason I saw him as somone playing some comedic role, and he knew that, but he seemed to have some sense og humour:)
08:41 PM roycroft: i'm going to make dinner in a bit, and then i might turn down that bolt head and see if the tailstock seems to line up
08:42 PM roycroft: he was somewhat self-deprecating
08:42 PM roycroft: as a human being i do not dislike dubya
08:42 PM roycroft: but his policies were mostly horrible
08:42 PM LeelooMinai: I read that when the Trump ceremony ended and people were leaving he said to someone "That was some weird shit" - lol, I can see that.
08:44 PM roycroft: bush has done a lot of work to stop the spread of aids in africa
08:44 PM roycroft: i do give him credit where it is due
08:45 PM roycroft: what ceremony?
08:45 PM roycroft: the inauguration?
08:45 PM LeelooMinai: Yes
08:45 PM roycroft: that's the first inauguration in my life since i have memory that i did not watch
08:45 PM roycroft: but i read bits of the speech later
08:45 PM LeelooMinai: He was there - they even loled at him entangling himself with some plastic cover when it started raining.
08:46 PM roycroft: it was the darkest, gloomiest thing i've ever heard from a us president
08:46 PM roycroft: i could not bring myself to watch it, and i'm glad i didn't
08:46 PM roycroft: it was almost post-apocalyptic
08:46 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I think many people did not watch it as they were in shock and overloaded at that time - so probably went to drunk themselves to death or something like that:)
08:47 PM roycroft: they had 2-1/2 months to get used to it
08:47 PM roycroft: he was elected on 8 november, and not sworn in until 20 january
08:47 PM LeelooMinai: There are some people one cannot get used to:p
08:48 PM LeelooMinai: some things&
08:48 PM andypugh: Loetmichel_: My German teacher disn’t know the answer to this question (She is vegetarian) What is the difference between hähnchen and hühnchen. Do you really have male and female fowl as different meats?
08:50 PM roycroft: we have tom turkeys and hen turkeys
08:50 PM roycroft: they are marketed by gender like that
08:51 PM roycroft: as a not bird eater, i don't know the difference, other than biologic
08:51 PM roycroft: i *think* toms are preferred
08:51 PM roycroft: but i'm not certain about that
08:52 PM roycroft: it's important to not let the trump crap become normal, leeloominai
08:52 PM roycroft: his outrageous acts must continue to outrage us
08:53 PM roycroft: but that said, folks need to accept that he is the legitimately elected president for now
08:53 PM roycroft: they need to shift from "i can't believe he is president" to "i hate that he is president"
08:54 PM LeelooMinai: Well, ok, you don't have to tell me that, but, there's something fundamental and disturbing happening in many places - not really sure what's at the core of it, but I don't think it's just republicans vs democratys.
08:55 PM LeelooMinai: democrats*
08:57 PM LeelooMinai: From my point of view is like two groups of people. Semms one has a "let the weak/different die" attitude and the other "weak/different should be helped/embraced" one. Not saying one is more valid than the other, but it seems to be the main theme in all the divisions.
08:59 PM LeelooMinai: And of course the exteme versions of those two leading to all sorts of hate/outrage.
09:00 PM Loetmichel_: andypugh: usually not
09:00 PM Loetmichel_: grill chicken is ALWAYS female
09:00 PM roycroft: sadly, the division is more tribal then philosophical, imo
09:00 PM Loetmichel_: the names are for the male and female bird tho
09:01 PM roycroft: which explains why the two major parties are so similar in policy
09:01 PM roycroft: although they claim to be vastly different
09:01 PM andypugh: Right, so the gender is based on how it is cooked? I guess that saves DNA-testing at the table ;-)
09:02 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: isnt there already speak of an inpeachment in your country?
09:02 PM LeelooMinai: There's whole investigation going on afaik.
09:03 PM LeelooMinai: New thing being they found that that Kishner guy ask Russians once to give him a secure channel I think to Putin, which is a bit weird:)
09:03 PM Loetmichel_: andypugh: male chicken tends to have a strong taste. So they are usually not used as human food
09:03 PM LeelooMinai: Or Kushner
09:04 PM Loetmichel_: only the different names remain these days
09:04 PM andypugh: Loetmichel_: Really? First I have heard of that, thought very few male chickens live much after hatching.
09:04 PM roycroft: chicken tastes like chicken, doesn't it?
09:04 PM Loetmichel_: andypugh: exactly
09:04 PM roycroft: there is talk of impeachment, loetmichel_
09:05 PM roycroft: but that is a prolonged process
09:05 PM roycroft: the last time we had a president who committed real impeachable offenses was in 1973, when nixon covered up the watergate breaking
09:05 PM LeelooMinai: I think it's a process in itself - that is it's a kind of trial and not verdict.
09:05 PM roycroft: breakin
09:05 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: as far as i know males are supposed to be a bit more "game" like than females
09:05 PM roycroft: it took 18 months from the time the news broke until he resigned (hours before being impeached)
09:06 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVf6KXVIZ5I shows the males being sent down the mincing chute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVf6KXVIZ5I
09:06 PM roycroft: yes, impeachment is not removal from office
09:06 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: forgot clonton already?
09:06 PM roycroft: no
09:06 PM roycroft: i said "real impeachable offenses"
09:06 PM andypugh: They don’t _say_ that.
09:06 PM roycroft: the clinton impeachment was a witch hunt that provided a lame excuse
09:06 PM roycroft: i say that a someone who did not and does not like clinton
09:07 PM Crom is now known as Cromaglious_
09:07 PM LeelooMinai: I think it needs to be something from a set of concrete offences, like "obstruction of justice", which is what is more likely to be used with Trump it seems.
09:07 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: while i agree, i was under the impression that it fits the prude double standards in the US when it comes to anything sex related...
09:07 PM roycroft: the us constitution provides for impeachement for "high crimes and misdemeanors"
09:07 PM roycroft: that is the exact language in the constitution
09:08 PM roycroft: it is up to the house of representatives to define "high crimes and misdemeanors"
09:08 PM Loetmichel_: and what nearly "felled" hil wasnt the intern sex in the first place but his denial of it
09:08 PM roycroft: a blow job in the oval office does not qualify, imo
09:08 PM Loetmichel_: am i right?
09:08 PM roycroft: here is my take on sex scancals, loetmichel_
09:08 PM roycroft: i find then distasteful
09:08 PM LeelooMinai: To be fair, when you look at what they had on Democrat presidents and compare it with Republican ones, it does not look good for the latter:)
09:08 PM roycroft: i do not like it when elected officials engage in such acts
09:09 PM roycroft: because it demeans their office and diminishes their ability to do their jobs
09:09 PM roycroft: it is not a moral judgement
09:09 PM roycroft: however
09:09 PM roycroft: there is a HUGE difference between the two major parties regarding such acts
09:09 PM roycroft: republicans tout themselves as "family values" and "moral" people
09:10 PM roycroft: who deplore such things
09:10 PM roycroft: yet when they get caught they always are forgiven
09:10 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: maybe we europeans are a bit more relaxed in that department... look at berlusconi for example... but i meant that it WASNT the act that caused problems for clinton but the fact that he denied it. he lied to the conrgress
09:10 PM Loetmichel_: at least that how i understood it
09:10 PM roycroft: democrats don't pass judgement on such things
09:10 PM roycroft: they don't care
09:10 PM LeelooMinai: I remember how they "news" about stupid things like Obama eating some food or wearing that and that - in comparison to today it just looks silly.
09:10 PM roycroft: yet when they are caught in such a scandal republicans make it like a war crime
09:11 PM roycroft: it's the hypocracy that offends me
09:11 PM roycroft: not the act
09:11 PM roycroft: loetmichel_: much of our nation is rather two-faced, sadly
09:12 PM roycroft: this is literally the way the right rationalises things
09:12 PM LeelooMinai: It would be nice if all the polititians were saying things straight, but it's not going to happen I think. Well, maybe Bernie is close to that, but that's just "anomaly".
09:12 PM roycroft: "it's all right if we are caught in a sex scandal, becase we, like everyone, are sinners, but we see that we have sinned, and ask forgiveness
09:13 PM Loetmichel_: hmmm
09:13 PM Loetmichel_: thats a bit much religion for my taste to be honest
09:13 PM roycroft: "but democrats are godless heathens, and when they have sinned they demonstrate no remorse, and therefore are dammed"
09:13 PM roycroft: republican party = extrememe fundamentalist christianity
09:14 PM roycroft: our vice president cannot have dinner with a woman alone
09:14 PM roycroft: even in a public restaurant with dozens/hundreds of other people around him
09:14 PM roycroft: because it's a dishonor to his wife somehow
09:14 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: hmmm dont they know that nearly all world religions condem the "nonbelievers" to hell? so in a sense we are all sinners and heaven would be empty
09:14 PM roycroft: if that's not a textbook definition of nuttery i don't know what is
09:14 PM roycroft: and not just dinner
09:14 PM roycroft: even a meeting
09:15 PM jdh: most religion is, except it is excused by 'god'
09:15 PM roycroft: say the belgian ambassador to the us is a woman
09:15 PM roycroft: our vice president cannot have a private meeting with the belgian ambassador to the us
09:15 PM jdh: won't
09:16 PM roycroft: our vice president proclaims (and has done so dozens, if not hundreds of times) "i am a christian, a conservative, and an american, in that order"
09:16 PM roycroft: in my mind that disqualifies him from holding public office
09:16 PM roycroft: he needs to be an american first
09:16 PM roycroft: not third
09:16 PM Loetmichel_: for all I care "mama merkel" could fuck thru the whole G8 presidency.. as long as she does her job while doing that its just none of my business
09:16 PM roycroft: theocracies are never good things
09:17 PM roycroft: exactly
09:17 PM Loetmichel_: thats a thing she has to clear with her husband.
09:17 PM Loetmichel_: (unlikely as that would be ;)
09:20 PM LeelooMinai: So, the conclusion is "we are all going to die"
09:20 PM LeelooMinai: Because it does not seem it will get better in the future:)
09:20 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: sooner or later yes. i prefer later ;)
09:20 PM LeelooMinai: I forgot "a horrible and sudden death":p
09:21 PM roycroft: speaking of sex scandals
09:21 PM roycroft: what did you do that pissed off your wife so much she kickdd you out of bed in the middle of the night so you're on irc, loetmichel_? :)
09:21 PM Loetmichel_: i never got there in the first place
09:22 PM roycroft: so even worse
09:22 PM Loetmichel_: and its not what i did... she has a slight cold... i can hear her snore from here ... three rooms away
09:22 PM roycroft: aah, it's all on her then
09:22 PM roycroft: ok
09:23 PM LeelooMinai: Right, and tommorow Loetmichel_ will find on her phone and app called "snore simulator"
09:23 PM Loetmichel_: no need to try to to sleep there
09:23 PM * roycroft just realised that he forgot to bid on a nice straightedge, and the auction ended a half hour ago
09:23 PM roycroft: but i checked and the winning bid was ridiculously high
09:23 PM roycroft: so i'd not have won anyway
09:23 PM LeelooMinai: I ordered that Starret 24 inches one
09:23 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: no. her phone isnt that loud
09:23 PM roycroft: the auction was for a 26" one, leeloominai
09:24 PM roycroft: i think the 24" starrett that i have is fine for almost everything
09:24 PM LeelooMinai: And other things, like that blue substance and a set of "scrapers" for $11 - not sure if they will scrap anything, but maybe? :)
09:24 PM roycroft: but if i could get a 36" one cheap i'd go for it
09:24 PM roycroft: it sold for $104 + shipping though
09:24 PM Loetmichel_: corect me: is a straightedge a steel ruler or more a triangle?
09:24 PM roycroft: the former
09:24 PM roycroft: a long, very straight piece of metal
09:25 PM Loetmichel_: tapered?
09:25 PM roycroft: i was going to bid $50 for it
09:25 PM roycroft: they are sometimes beveled, sometimes straight
09:25 PM LeelooMinai: l-shape would be amchinist square, and precision straight edge would be basically like an oversized parallel.
09:26 PM roycroft: the starrett is straight and parallel to 0.0002"/ft
09:26 PM Loetmichel_: ah, si not ven marked with inches or CM?
09:26 PM roycroft: you can do the translation if you wish :)
09:26 PM LeelooMinai: I got that 23 inches Starret for equivalent of $75 USD, so not bad.
09:26 PM Loetmichel_: so not even
09:26 PM roycroft: no, it's just a straight piece of metal
09:26 PM Loetmichel_: i see
09:26 PM LeelooMinai: Ruler would have marks, straight edge may have some, but usually not.
09:26 PM roycroft: yeah, that's a decent price, leeloominai
09:27 PM LeelooMinai: There are, hmm, precise rulers like that and they call them I think, precision drafting rulers.
09:27 PM * Loetmichel_ needs a bigger "Anschlagwinkel" soon
09:27 PM roycroft: beveled straight edges sometimes have rule marks
09:27 PM roycroft: i've never seen a non-beveled one that does
09:27 PM Loetmichel_: and a "00" one at least
09:27 PM andypugh: Depending on the applucation you might want a “camelback” But that has become a hard thing to search ebay for: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brown-Sharpe-Camelback-straight-edge-72-x-2-1-4-Machinist-tool-/361443313465?hash=item5427b34739:g:oGMAAOSwmtJXY1ig
09:27 PM Loetmichel_: the 2 foot one i have isnt big enough sometimes
09:27 PM LeelooMinai: Right, a beveled one with marks is more like a ruler. At this point it's potato/tomato:)
09:28 PM roycroft: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/metrology/metrology-products/precision-measuring-tools/precision-rules-straight-edges-parallels/Straight-Edges/380-24
09:28 PM LeelooMinai: Right, cast ones have crazy prices from what I have seen.
09:28 PM Loetmichel_: a camelback is for scraping, correct?
09:28 PM roycroft: that is what i have, and what i think leeloominai got
09:28 PM roycroft: a camelback is generally used as a reference for scraping, yes
09:28 PM LeelooMinai: No, a camelback is for holding water when hiking/cycling:)
09:29 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: hrhr
09:29 PM Loetmichel_: +aa
09:29 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, that's the one 380
09:29 PM andypugh: That is why I mentioned the difficulty of eBay searching
09:29 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/361443313465
09:30 PM LeelooMinai: I hesitated, but then concluded that it's a good investment - even though sync suggested that he does not use straight edge much:)(
09:30 PM roycroft: i don't use mine that often
09:30 PM roycroft: but i've had it for a good 15-20 years
09:30 PM roycroft: and when i need it it is quite useful
09:30 PM LeelooMinai: I mean maybe I can even use that edge + scrapping things and make other edges from something.
09:31 PM Loetmichel_: thats how we do it here in germany usually (the hobbyists)
09:31 PM roycroft: a lot of metrology toos are not used often
09:31 PM roycroft: but when needed are indispensable
09:31 PM roycroft: tools
09:31 PM Loetmichel_: get 3 steel plates and a scraper and som prussian blue ( if i name that correctly) and make some on our own
09:32 PM Loetmichel_: you can scrape to perfect flatness if you have 3 surfaces
09:32 PM roycroft: it's prussian blue in the us
09:32 PM andypugh: That one is showing as $600 to buy, + $1240 shipping.. !
09:32 PM roycroft: i was informed that it's stevens blue in the uk
09:32 PM andypugh: No, “Micrometer Blue”
09:32 PM roycroft: it's only US$156 to ship within the us
09:32 PM LeelooMinai: Which reminds me that I had another idea to make y rails planar. What if I just put my small surface plate in-between them and just indicate from the surface plate to both rails with arm+indicator...
09:33 PM andypugh: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stuart-Engineers-Micrometer-Blue-Marking-38-gram-Tin-/190405691880?hash=item2c551049e8:m:mMui6QU77myBJcKVoEiAIhw
09:33 PM LeelooMinai: That is so simple, that makes me wonder if there's something wrong with this idea, but I cannot see anything.
09:34 PM roycroft: i believe it was archivist who was saying earlier that prussian blue is called stevens blue on your side of the pond
09:34 PM andypugh: Stuarts,
09:35 PM roycroft: so it's scottish
09:35 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: Make what? Flat plates?
09:35 PM roycroft: which means it's not crap
09:35 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: There is a special tool that does much the same thing. Waymaster, Way King, that sort of name
09:35 PM LeelooMinai: I don't think I had anything in my life "made in scottland":)
09:35 PM andypugh: Whisky?
09:36 PM LeelooMinai: lol, I don't drink:)
09:36 PM LeelooMinai: They probably had to fight for their country most of the time, so not much time left for anything else.
09:37 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: They didn’t _have_ to fight, they _chose_ to.
09:37 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: Does what? My surface-plate alignment idea?
09:37 PM andypugh: Yes
09:38 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, somehow no one ever mentioned it when I asked how to make rails planar - like 100 times by now probably:p
09:38 PM LeelooMinai: I see Waymaster tires
09:38 PM LeelooMinai: That's probably not it
09:39 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/47296-A-very-handy-gizmo-for-scraping-and-general-evaluation-of-equipment
09:40 PM LeelooMinai: Cannot one just usse straight edge instead of that whole contraption?
09:40 PM andypugh: You need both
09:41 PM andypugh: It all depends on what you are trying to measure
09:41 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I meant with the surface plate... But I guess my table has square shape and is reasonably small. With longer rails that would not work.
09:42 PM LeelooMinai: Still, 2meter straight edges are probably not easy to get too...
09:42 PM roycroft: what you really need to do is start making parts on your machine
09:42 PM roycroft: and if they're good enough, not worry about aligning it better
09:42 PM LeelooMinai: But, I talked (kind of to myself,) about an idea and paper I found how to do it.
09:43 PM andypugh: You can recondition a box-way lathe with just a suface plate (I have done it)
09:43 PM LeelooMinai: With close to 1 micron accuracy: with those music wires and interruptors going into filter, amplifier and ADC.
09:43 PM andypugh: V-ways make life hearder
09:43 PM andypugh: (harder)
09:44 PM LeelooMinai: This one: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143816613000766
09:45 PM LeelooMinai: I found it yesterday, but it's same as what I am doing with my 3D probe.
09:46 PM andypugh: Straight-edges get more expensive non-linearly with length: http://www.teng.co.uk/59-000-050-59-000-200-linear-steel-straight-edges-din-874-1.html
09:46 PM LeelooMinai: Duh, no kidding:)
09:46 PM andypugh: Thouugh I have the 1m length variant of those, and paid £50
09:46 PM roycroft: i should think they are non-linearly more difficult to make with length
09:47 PM LeelooMinai: Most tools seem to work that way.
09:47 PM LeelooMinai: Unless they are so expensive from the start, like laser based ones, that they cover every case.
09:47 PM andypugh: I have wondered for a while how you make accurate squares.
09:48 PM LeelooMinai: Like machinist squares?
09:48 PM andypugh: But then I made these: https://goo.gl/photos/o2PgaApXqsYJTFTW9
09:48 PM XXCoder: andypugh: yeah calipers go up with price FAST with length
09:48 PM andypugh: And suddenly it was obvious
09:48 PM XXCoder: I used 3 feet length one before, and it cost more than cheap car
09:49 PM andypugh: You can make a flat by making 3. (you scrape A to B, B to C, C to A, and so on).
09:49 PM LeelooMinai: 3 feet callipers - that sounds on the verge of being wrong tool used or something:)
09:49 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: Those are scrape marks?
09:49 PM andypugh: Once you have a flat, then scraping 3 squares to each other on your flat gives you squares.
09:50 PM XXCoder: dunno I was told to use it, then they later changed mind and told me not to later. lol (I was still new and training job)
09:50 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: No, those are where the foundry cut the gates off
09:50 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Maybe it was some kind of hazing:p I already imagine them hiding around and loling at "the guy with 1 meter callipers":)
09:51 PM XXCoder: dunno maybe lol
09:52 PM roycroft: i think i've seen a video of you boring those parts, andypugh
09:52 PM LeelooMinai: I watched a scraping video 3 years ago probably... Now forgot the whole procedure, just know the basic idea.
09:52 PM andypugh: But, I decided to check how square I got the castings by putting them face-to-face on the mill table. No-gap means they have the same angle. Checking in sequence means that that angle is 90 (rather than 90.1 and 89.9)
09:53 PM LeelooMinai: I certainly do not plan to scrap that big surfaces - just small parts maybe.
09:53 PM XXCoder: LOL https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/607922259/basic-man-life-changing-basics-for-under-20
09:54 PM andypugh: Here is a 3-foot micrometer (actually seems cheap) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitutoyo-model-104-204-OD-Micrometer-Set-30-36-001-Carbide-Anvils-FQ42-/292077448487?hash=item44012c2d27:g:gvEAAOSwDmBY5QcT
09:55 PM roycroft: a 3' micrometer should not need to be that expensive
09:55 PM roycroft: the 3' standard used to calibrate it is another story
09:55 PM XXCoder: its because its essentally same gear as smaller ones
09:55 PM XXCoder: just need good and rigid C
09:55 PM andypugh: That one has the set of standards, I think
09:55 PM XXCoder: caliper is different as it have to be uber accurate to travel that far out and still stay under certain precision level
09:56 PM XXCoder: *stay under error level
09:56 PM roycroft: yes, a caliper needs to be accurate throughout the entire range from zero to whatever
09:56 PM andypugh: 1000mm digital calipers are hardly expensive at all nowadays: http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/1000mm-40-digital-caliper.html
09:57 PM XXCoder: http://assets.machine-dro.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/8/image/56969bb131e7f6de9ec78c697c28dd3e/h/e/head_1.jpg
09:57 PM roycroft: but you can take a 6" dial caliper and put a 2.5' extension bar on it
09:57 PM LeelooMinai: I was thinking - cannot you just make straight edge from a piano/music wire stretched in some metal frame?
09:57 PM XXCoder: weird thumb scroll
09:57 PM andypugh: http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/2000mm-80-digital-calipers.html 2000mm ones are still not cheap
09:58 PM LeelooMinai: Like in that paper, but having it portable - I mean just some steel long base and at the ends something to stretch the wire with.
09:58 PM XXCoder: I dont know that brand
09:58 PM andypugh: While we are here: Have you heard of “pi tapes"
09:58 PM XXCoder: no
09:58 PM XXCoder: "UKAS Certification (10 Day Service) +136.32 (+163.58 Incl. VAT)"
09:58 PM roycroft: the real expense would be setting up the temperature-controlled environment needed to ensure that the super long caliper is accurate
09:59 PM XXCoder: roy yeah the buyoff room is pretty cool now LOL
09:59 PM andypugh: A pi tape is a tape measure which reads diameter when wrapped round a circumference
09:59 PM XXCoder: in winters its little warmer
09:59 PM XXCoder: inspector that work same shift as me always wear coat because that room is colder than he can stand
09:59 PM XXCoder: coat year around
10:00 PM roycroft: well that's good
10:00 PM andypugh: They often have a vernier scale on the end, so can read to .05 / pi mm. Which is good enough for anything big enough to use a pi tape on
10:00 PM roycroft: because that means he'll also wear gloves when measuring things
10:00 PM roycroft: and is body heat will not affect the measurements
10:00 PM XXCoder: for me its neteral temperate
10:00 PM XXCoder: not that cold roy
10:00 PM andypugh: 20C is standard isn’t it?
10:00 PM andypugh: That’s hot for me
10:01 PM roycroft: hydrometers are calibrated at 15 degrees
10:01 PM XXCoder: 68f is neteral to me
10:01 PM LeelooMinai: That's cold for me - I like more 24 or 25
10:01 PM roycroft: and you're canuckistani?
10:01 PM roycroft: 24 or 25 is alabama room temperature, not ontario
10:01 PM roycroft: 18-20 is fine for me
10:02 PM andypugh: My job involves a lot of work in cold-rooms at -30C. I don’t like -30, but am OK with -20.
10:02 PM roycroft: 15 and i'll wear a sweater, not turn on the heat
10:02 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I got here from Poland, but I don't know 20 is far too low.
10:02 PM roycroft: i did not think poland was that warm
10:02 PM LeelooMinai: It's not, it's just me I guess:)
10:03 PM andypugh: I was too lazy to put the gear on and spent 15 minutes a5 -15C in shirtsleeves last weekend. I regretted it, but then I was expecing 5 minutes, and that would have been OK. But: Computers.
10:03 PM roycroft: i'm not a huge fan of cold temperatures
10:03 PM roycroft: but
10:03 PM roycroft: one can always put more clothing on
10:03 PM roycroft: there is only so much clothing one can remove
10:04 PM roycroft: so given the choice, i'd take cold over hot
10:04 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I don't know. Just read this for office environments: "A general recommendation is that the temperature be held constant in the range of 21-23°C (69-73°F). "
10:04 PM andypugh: I set my central heating to 17C. But then I am tight-fisted.
10:04 PM LeelooMinai: So I am close to that 23:)
10:04 PM roycroft: i'm really starting to feel fatigued after working out in the garden for several hours today with temperatures in the upper 20s
10:05 PM roycroft: i paced myself well
10:05 PM roycroft: and did not feel too bad while i was out working
10:05 PM roycroft: but now that i'm settling down it's catching up
10:05 PM LeelooMinai: well, another thing is humidity - it changes that 24 into hell:)
10:05 PM roycroft: i made cold food for dinner tonight
10:05 PM roycroft: which helps on a hot day
10:07 PM roycroft: greg allman passed today :(
10:09 PM LeelooMinai: Did not know him - "not that kind of music"
10:09 PM roycroft: i grew up with the allman brothers
10:09 PM roycroft: never my favorite band
10:10 PM roycroft: but i've been listenting to them since the '60s
10:10 PM roycroft: listening
10:42 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: if you have 3 surfaces you can make ANY plate perfectly flat by scraping
10:44 PM Loetmichel_: ... its just a LOAD of work
10:44 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, maybe, maybe not:)
10:44 PM Loetmichel_: you basically use any surface agains each other as a reference for scraping
10:44 PM Loetmichel_: and iterate that process a few times
10:45 PM Loetmichel_: in the end you will get 3 exactly flat surfaces
10:45 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: CNC + camera + mill non-blue areas with tiny increments - less work?
10:45 PM Loetmichel_: could work
10:45 PM Loetmichel_: but is not as much "fun" ;)
10:46 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, I guess if you are 125kg scraping metal with primitive tools may seem like fun...
10:48 PM LeelooMinai: I will probably get tired adter scrapin 1 square cm
10:48 PM XXCoder: http://engineeronadisk.com/V2/book_implementation/engineeronadisk-110.gif
10:48 PM XXCoder: essentally this
10:50 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm