#linuxcnc Logs

May 26 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:04 AM CaptHindsight: if you don't want the Rock for prez 46 then FU
12:06 AM CaptHindsight: or don't smoke Tarrlytons
12:11 AM Crom: I Smoke Timeless Time Smokes... Korean... $20 for 3 packs...
12:13 AM Crom: $24 for 3 packs of Marlboro's
12:14 AM * jym gets three cartons for $25
12:21 AM Crom: not is PPeople Republic of Kaliforniastani
12:21 AM jym: Yep
12:51 AM d42 is now known as daz__
12:54 AM CaptHindsight: anything but Russian cigs
12:55 AM CaptHindsight: Crom: the PRK, sounds good
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: but People's Republic of Korea might have taken that already
12:59 AM CaptHindsight: also People's Republic of Kampuchea
12:59 AM CaptHindsight: maybe something more upbeat ....
01:04 AM jym: People Republic of Kangaroo Klonkers!
01:06 AM CaptHindsight: jym: what's the deal out there with this Mexican hate?
01:07 AM CaptHindsight: did they run out of things actually worthwhile to complain about
01:15 AM Crom: almost got my 4th hole drilled on my linear shaft and broke the 4.2mm bril in the hole... took 6 hours to finesse it out...
01:16 AM jym: CaptHindsight: I thought that was in AZ
01:17 AM Crom: https://www.craighuey.com/1960s-teens-video/
01:17 AM Crom: very cool...
01:18 AM Crom: Jack Webb was too cool!
01:21 AM Crom: Harry Morgan was great too!
01:24 AM CaptHindsight: nah, now it's shoot the messenger
01:25 AM CaptHindsight: and old people are worse today then back then, ask any young person
01:29 AM archivist: how do they know they were not there!
01:32 AM Crom: hehe
01:32 AM CaptHindsight: oh don't try to use facts or logic, they have their own alternate versions
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
01:33 AM CaptHindsight: I'm pretty sure that facebook told them so
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: alternatet facts are the best
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: you can turn them into your mind
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: Keep America Beautiful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Suu84khNGY
01:36 AM IchGucksLive: Crom does the PRK try to get out of the union
01:36 AM IchGucksLive: as they also got ther own law on drugs
01:36 AM IchGucksLive: streetlaw and so on
01:37 AM IchGucksLive: Crom they missed out silverster stalone so him for first man
01:37 AM IchGucksLive: and jodi foster for the firast lady
01:38 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: they only elect actors from Austria :)
01:39 AM CaptHindsight: and tings like dat
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: the ministry will b set up by J.roberts,sandra bullock, Williams ...
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: Tactical defence by the Trekside crew and the force of the empirer is the defence
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: i think PRK will get it to the top of the G7
01:40 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: it's more of a combo of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk Idiocracy and Mein Kampf
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: oh isent kims country also prk
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, already taken
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: so kim needs a different shorttherem
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: as in Calafornia living more people
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: so PRC
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: but Kalafornians love to write with K instad of C
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: how would the history of Germany have been different if it was lead by more dumb than evil Nazis?
01:43 AM CaptHindsight: it's more dumb than evil here
01:43 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off today alot of orders need to be made as from Motheres,Valatines,Dads day left over at my brothers shop
01:43 AM CaptHindsight: Memorial Day weekend here
01:43 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: Time takes them all
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: Vikings
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: indians
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: and ofcause the greaters
01:44 AM CaptHindsight: hasn't done much to dumb people yet
01:44 AM IchGucksLive: Romes Egypts Greek,Mayas,
01:45 AM IchGucksLive: till whateyer i can grep a www today
01:46 AM CaptHindsight: Facism Light
01:47 AM CaptHindsight: Facism/Fascism
01:52 AM Crom: Jodi Foster I think is living more in New York... She's still fine looking though
01:53 AM Crom: https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaRightToCarry still waiting for this case to be decided...
02:14 AM gcardinal: Good morning! tryin to find alternative to fushion360 and have been looking into Rhino and RhinoCAM.
02:15 AM gcardinal: There is no direct LinuxCNC / EMC postprocessor - but there is support for PathPilot - is it okay to use it?
02:16 AM archivist_herron: should be ok mostly
02:17 AM gcardinal: ok thx, just out of curiousity is pathpilot = linuxcnc or is there actuall diferences?
02:17 AM archivist_herron: the other alternative is hand coding the gcode :)
02:17 AM archivist_herron: pathpilot is a fork of linuxcnc
02:18 AM archivist_herron: mainly front end differences, not much change in gcode
02:19 AM gcardinal: archivist_herron also trying to learn that:) got cnc programming handbook - not the biggest progress so far
02:20 AM gcardinal: archivist_herron okay thx
02:20 AM Deejay: moin
02:21 AM archivist_herron: gcardinal, for some jobs, CAM is not a lot of use
02:22 AM gcardinal: archivist_herron agreed, and I quickly noticed that. on my machine there is manual handles so I original plan was to use it in manual mode from time to time. however since motors are permemently connected to drivers - they brake after some turning. so need a way to disconnect them on the fly
02:22 AM miss0r: archivist_herron: Do me a handcoded 3D american eagle :D
02:22 AM archivist_herron: miss0r, eff orf :)
02:23 AM miss0r: :]
02:24 AM archivist_herron: miss0r, sow me the open source/free cam for a bevel gear
02:24 AM archivist_herron: show
02:24 AM miss0r: archivist_herron: I've been looking further into converting my old mill to linux cnc.. you know - to get more than 64kb of gcode memory. I've compiled a list, but as it turns out, i'll need parts for roughly 4300EUR :-/
02:24 AM miss0r: err... hmm.. yeah :D
02:26 AM archivist_herron: you have an error in your sums, I have never spent that mush in converting any machine
02:26 AM archivist_herron: much
02:26 AM gcardinal: thats almost a price for a machine
02:26 AM miss0r: i'm afraid not. it has alot of functions. and it is not cheap to convert the signal from the linear scales. thoes converters are almost 1000eur alone
02:27 AM miss0r: (3x300 eur)
02:27 AM archivist_herron: the electronics could be hand made for a lot less
02:28 AM miss0r: No doubt. But I am not a wizard with a soldering iron. I know my way around some electronics. but I don't think I can take on this project without prefab. components. Also, i'm a person with limited time on my hands
02:28 AM gcardinal: miss0r what machine do you have?
02:29 AM miss0r: gcardinal: it's a MAHO 500c
02:29 AM miss0r: with the original philips 321 controller
02:29 AM miss0r: :D
02:30 AM gcardinal: oh very cool!
02:30 AM archivist_herron: re use parts in the control as well
02:30 AM miss0r: its a pretty descent machine. but as I said - its old, and needs an upgrade at some point
02:31 AM miss0r: archivist_herron: absolutly. I haven't looked into used price for the components, i've just compiled a list with factory ned parts.
02:31 AM gcardinal: for that price I would argue that its better to get a second machine and keep this as-is
02:31 AM miss0r: While i'm at it, I was actualy considering doing something to upgrade the spindle. it can run no faster than 4k rpm.
02:32 AM archivist_herron: miss0r, I mean the servo drives and scale electronics in the current control
02:33 AM gcardinal: at least that is my plan is to get second smaller for 32k rpm spindle - for engraving and other small endmill stuff
02:38 AM miss0r: gcardinal: For the engraving jobs I use a RolandDB CAMM-3 PNC-3100 desktop mill. Does a realy nice job
02:38 AM miss0r: archivist_herron: From what i've read online it is not realy possible to use the build-in components that way. its a realy realy special system
02:39 AM gcardinal: miss0r that is a nice machine as well. there is one of that kinda for sale on used makred in Norway now. around 1k usd
02:39 AM gcardinal: however controller on it put me bit off
02:40 AM miss0r: that being said, I don't much feel like having to fiddle alot with the old controller, as I want it to be a fast swap - this machine has daily jobs as is
02:41 AM miss0r: gcardinal: yeah. but theres this guy on a forum i'm on, that sells a pcb you can stick in there, and with the flip of a switch you can choose between controller and LinuxCNC/mach3
02:43 AM gcardinal: miss0r wow thats sounds great! is it an english forum?
02:43 AM miss0r: gcardinal: yeah. on yahoo.. 2 secs i'll link you
02:44 AM miss0r: https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CAMM-3/conversations/topics
02:44 AM miss0r: you need to be a member iirc
02:45 AM gcardinal: miss0r thank you! will check if the machine is sold here and what the price. for the footprint it would be a great addition
02:52 AM gcardinal: miss0r interesting forum - first topic "3d printed collet" - sign of a fun by it self :)
02:52 AM miss0r: Don't get too carried away with the forum - it is _VERY_ slow
02:52 AM miss0r: i'd like to add anote on the machine - the reason someone wants to 3D-print a collect is because they are realy hard to come by.
02:53 AM miss0r: I would just like to mention that
02:53 AM gcardinal: ok, jupp got sense of it
02:53 AM miss0r: I found a local supplyer here in Denmark, that was able to order the collect directly from japan - so they are sold from new, but if I recall correctly it was quite expensive.
02:55 AM gcardinal: miss0r k, guy who is selling machine here have 6 collects in most sizes in the package. so from how it looks it might be OK for what it is
02:55 AM miss0r: absolutly! I have three, and am quite happy about that
02:56 AM miss0r: The thing is, for a machine that size you don't realy need that many, as long as you have 6mm and 3.125mm you can always get tools the desiered size with one of thoes shanksizes
02:56 AM miss0r: perhaps a 4mm as well. thoes are the sizes I have. and you don't realy want to go bigger than 6mm in that anyway
02:57 AM gcardinal: agreed and I only intend to use it for engraving. we had a fun idea / project that we never releazied and that engraving medals after marathon or any sports even right after the finish line
02:57 AM miss0r: gcardinal: one last note I would like to add on the machine: it does not reccomend you work on ferrous metals
02:57 AM gcardinal: miss0r ok, good to know as well
02:58 AM miss0r: also: if you want to move it around, keep in mind it weighs in around 60kg
02:59 AM gcardinal: wow thats more then it looks!
03:00 AM miss0r: its a realy sturdy machine. it can do some nice milling as well.
03:00 AM gcardinal: very cool! I think I will take a drive and see it
03:00 AM gcardinal: I totally underestimated it from my first look at it
03:01 AM miss0r: do that. also: if you want to use the build-in controller, which is realy nice for small engraving projects (VERY FAST), you'll be required to run windows xp or older. (trust me on that)
03:02 AM miss0r: I have a seprate windows XP machine for just for that, I access with remote desktop
03:02 AM gcardinal: miss0r yupp got that setup on my linuxcnc box (dual os) - previously owned high-z cnc and needed XP for that
03:03 AM miss0r: and another thing: the y-axis may feel a bit loose - do not worrie about that, they all have that issue, but it does not effect the milling operation
03:03 AM miss0r: other than that: good luck :) I hope we get another camm-3 owner in here.
03:04 AM gcardinal: miss0r thank you for all the details! will get back after I check it out in person
03:05 AM miss0r: I won't be back here for some hours. if you have a pressing question, you can write me an email if you are interrested, I will answer pretty fast there. PM-ing you the email
03:05 AM miss0r: I have to get going - taking the misses out to get brunch. see you later
03:06 AM * miss0r out
03:07 AM gcardinal: miss0r thank you! have a good one
04:35 AM JesusAlos1 is now known as JesusAlos
04:39 AM rwlloyd: morning everyone, do doubt i'll need to pick some peoples brains today, so i thought I'd log in now
04:42 AM archivist_herron: after a while you stay logged in 24/7
04:44 AM rwlloyd: oh dear.... i think i can understand that, I was wondering how hard it would be to convert my spare 3d printer to linuxcnc to play with a delta configuration last night
04:47 AM archivist_herron: here xchat is on 3 channels, at home about 10-15
04:48 AM XXCoder: 3 servers 9 channels
04:50 AM archivist_herron: at home my bot sits in quite a few channels logging mostly these days
04:59 AM rwlloyd: welp, that wasn't a day wasted, but it doesn't work. Time for plan b, TIMERS! Is there any way to turn the spindle on then have it automatically turn off after a set time period? preferably controlled by a variable in the nc file?
05:00 AM XXCoder: while motionless?
05:01 AM XXCoder: I remember one program that moved in lathe end in very slowly so I have time to suspend so i can buff out burrs while its spinning
05:05 AM rwlloyd: err, no, there needs to be machine motion too, but i can do that with the hal confguration i wrote yesterday. the issue is that i have a quite lethargic laser shutter and i cant decelerate the laser slowly enough to trigger the logic stuff in the hal file.
05:05 AM XXCoder: well
05:05 AM XXCoder: you could always add nonexistant axis
05:05 AM XXCoder: and make motion there
05:06 AM XXCoder: since mm/m or ipm is known you can just set travel distance to whatever
05:06 AM XXCoder: though make sure not to hit nonexistant limit lol
05:06 AM XXCoder: maybe split time to forward and back
05:06 AM rwlloyd: hand on, i'm going to have to concentrate to think about that one.
05:07 AM rwlloyd: hang even
05:07 AM XXCoder: hand hang ;)
05:09 AM rwlloyd: while it's a good thought, im not sure it would work the way i need it to. you see, once the laser is on, it cant stop until the part is completed. and the part has to keep moving.
05:09 AM XXCoder: ah theres no way to do it UNLESS
05:09 AM rwlloyd: if i use an m3 or M5, the motion pauses for too long and i get a double hole, scrapping the part
05:10 AM XXCoder: you create custom mcode that turn on and off laser
05:10 AM rwlloyd: and that would be non blocking?
05:10 AM XXCoder: say m2991 s100 for 100 seconds
05:10 AM XXCoder: I dont know enough about scripts, but there is ponental anyway
05:12 AM rwlloyd: yes, i think that will be the way to do it. the key is that it needs to be non-blocking
05:12 AM rwlloyd: im googleing now....
05:12 AM archivist_herron: rwlloyd, there are some scanning options somewhere, use one as the laser control
05:13 AM archivist_herron: a version of http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rastering_With_A_Laser
05:14 AM archivist_herron: you just want on off so slightly different
05:14 AM XXCoder: isnt scanner great for makeing engrave picture but not cutting parts?
05:15 AM XXCoder: I could be wrong dunno
05:15 AM archivist_herron: well just a state of mind, on off v variable amount and path used
05:16 AM rwlloyd: ok, off to do some reading...
05:17 AM archivist_herron: does give control to mid path though which is what is needed
05:18 AM XXCoder: so it dont have to do basically raster scan, just can get those examples and make what rwlloyd want?
05:20 AM archivist_herron: something like that, will need a dose of thinking
05:20 AM XXCoder: im kinda surpised though. people dont use linuxcnc for laser or what?
05:22 AM rwlloyd: most people use it for things like co2 lasers, this is an industrial pulsed laser doing a pretty niche type of work
05:22 AM XXCoder: ahh
05:22 AM XXCoder: so turn on and off isnt as instant as co2 say?
05:25 AM rwlloyd: oh no, it is, the problem here lies with the way LCNC and an electromechanical shutter combine to cause a motion delay while turning the laser off. I cant have two laser pulses closer together than the others in the part.
05:26 AM rwlloyd: everything has to take place in less than a 30th of a second...
05:27 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:27 AM rwlloyd: yeah,.... just a ballache too!
05:28 AM XXCoder: I bet.
05:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi from a summer day in Germany
05:40 AM XXCoder: hey from starry night wa, usa
05:40 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: did you gert the picture of the elektronic case
05:40 AM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/4achs_elek
05:41 AM IchGucksLive: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/3achs_elek
05:41 AM XXCoder: yeah few times lol
05:42 AM IchGucksLive: rwlloyd: its always good to go for a non g-code version as of timelaps
05:43 AM rwlloyd: say again? what are you refering to?
05:45 AM IchGucksLive: as im in germany i may not got the point you are asking ,you are asking earlyer on a long g-code stop
05:45 AM IchGucksLive: here is my youtube channel on some issues you got https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ
05:46 AM XXCoder: yeah hes trying to figure out how to get laser to turn on or off without any delay since m3 for example is blocking gcode
05:46 AM IchGucksLive: hi JesusAlos getting very african tempos this days around you
05:47 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: user g-code to pinswap
05:48 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: did you see his HAL so he might got a spoindle rpm stepup there
05:48 AM XXCoder: I dont know enough HAL sadly
05:48 AM XXCoder: hey rwlloyd any online copy of your hal
05:48 AM IchGucksLive: and that on the time you are here
05:48 AM IchGucksLive: shame on you
05:49 AM XXCoder: heh I only did very basic hal stuff
05:49 AM IchGucksLive: ROFL as we all do
05:49 AM XXCoder: though eill need to do more when I work on spindle rpm.
05:50 AM IchGucksLive: rwlloyd: is there maybe also a Z move in your G-code not reqiuiered on laser
05:51 AM IchGucksLive: rwlloyd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxBwhehQWE here is mine 5USD laser engraver
05:51 AM IchGucksLive: 48x laser burner
05:53 AM rwlloyd: whoa there pickle. slow down. The Z axis is focusing the laser.
05:53 AM IchGucksLive: rwlloyd: but not moving in the Gcode
05:54 AM jthornton: morning
05:54 AM IchGucksLive: take all Z out
05:54 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:54 AM IchGucksLive: rwlloyd: there are posts for non Z
05:54 AM IchGucksLive: uise them
05:54 AM rwlloyd: no, im not doing that.
05:55 AM rwlloyd: this is in an industrial environment. I wont be programming it long term, so it has to be as standard as possible
05:55 AM IchGucksLive: it is all cam systems can do laser and Foam
05:55 AM rwlloyd: all the fancys timing stuff needs to be done in the background. the operator need not know it's there
05:56 AM IchGucksLive: all this systems even dont use a Z it is fixed on focus
05:57 AM IchGucksLive: and as you deal on lightspeed m3 schoudt have no effect at all
05:57 AM IchGucksLive: use it non separate
05:57 AM IchGucksLive: integreated in first cut sequence
05:57 AM IchGucksLive: as m5 stands out
05:57 AM rwlloyd: have you read the log of the last hour or so?
05:58 AM IchGucksLive: it works on most conversions build here even up to 30m/min
05:58 AM rwlloyd: because to be quite honest, i'm struggling to understand what you're saying, or referring to?
05:58 AM IchGucksLive: i did
05:58 AM XXCoder: IchGucksLive: m3 and its like is blocking call though, it causes pause as laser is turned on and off
05:58 AM XXCoder: in his case it ruins parts
05:59 AM jthornton: T-26h30m till Texas
06:00 AM IchGucksLive: ok lets leve it there im off till 7pm Berlin time
06:00 AM IchGucksLive: never saw M3 blocking a G-code
06:00 AM XXCoder: it causes a short pause
06:00 AM XXCoder: normally for spindle its for spindle to ramp up or slow down
06:00 AM IchGucksLive: not if it is in the moving word
06:00 AM XXCoder: but laser well its different
06:01 AM IchGucksLive: G0 x1 y1
06:01 AM XXCoder: so m3 z1 something it stops faster?
06:01 AM IchGucksLive: g1 X2 m3
06:01 AM IchGucksLive: m5
06:02 AM IchGucksLive: i cand see any Z movement requirered at all in a laser gcode
06:02 AM IchGucksLive: i focus on the part then there is no Z inside as it keeps the focus point till part is done
06:02 AM IchGucksLive: uusing plasma foam ,laser POST
06:03 AM IchGucksLive: How do i focus on a pat without cutting
06:03 AM IchGucksLive: i use a 0,1mm blank metall on a 2W laser
06:03 AM IchGucksLive: so it does not cut
06:04 AM IchGucksLive: to get the focus
06:04 AM IchGucksLive: and a steel ruler to get the X Y offserts
06:04 AM IchGucksLive: good working envirerment
06:04 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off bye
06:05 AM XXCoder: sometimes ich is very hard to follow or misunderstands. hes VERY experenced on cnc but commucation issues makes it virtually impossible sometimes.
06:06 AM rwlloyd: i get that...
06:07 AM rwlloyd: and i was about to rever to pictures!
06:07 AM rwlloyd: revert
06:07 AM XXCoder: he makes few cnc machines a day or week not too sure how often
06:07 AM XXCoder: so yeah lol
06:07 AM XXCoder: he is cnc machine maker for schools in germanyu
06:08 AM rwlloyd: I've made one in the last year.... here it is.... https://imgur.com/a/nXfq8
06:08 AM XXCoder: I like the design
06:09 AM XXCoder: funny your homebrew is bigger than professional machine I run at work
06:09 AM rwlloyd: this is at work
06:09 AM XXCoder: I run office mill haas a lot lately
06:09 AM rwlloyd: we built it ourselves
06:09 AM XXCoder: I sometimes run A61 i ran it for a week while office mill was dead
06:10 AM XXCoder: they decided to say fuck it and move it to another haas, which had perment fixture for certain job
06:10 AM XXCoder: because job is supppper late
06:11 AM rwlloyd: yeah, thats always the way... if the job is late, sod it, thow ALL the resources at it!
06:11 AM XXCoder: how it died was really damn dumb
06:11 AM XXCoder: somehow it allows chips into cast iron back column
06:11 AM rwlloyd: now, back to the matter in hand, im going to go try a few more things to get this late job running!
06:12 AM XXCoder: it then travels up
06:12 AM XXCoder: it triggers induction sensor too early
06:12 AM XXCoder: so spindle is at wrong place when its set z=0
06:12 AM XXCoder: tool corsel then crashes into it
06:12 AM XXCoder: happened couple times before corsel died
06:12 AM XXCoder: then they fixed that, and found out spindle died also
06:13 AM XXCoder: haas really isnt quality sometimes.
06:13 AM XXCoder: heck even old fadal 88 is better designed and it was designed in 1988.
06:15 AM sync: they are cheap and have good service
06:15 AM XXCoder: $50,000 yeah pretty cheap allright
06:16 AM XXCoder: the specific haas model has one bad design flaw besides I menioned - lube system isnt good enough and it will cost $15,000 to repair if it breaks and breaks rails
06:17 AM XXCoder: one im currently using has lube error so it will probably happen, and I warned maintance guy
06:18 AM sync: XXCoder: compare that to a similar machine from another manufacturer
06:19 AM sync: also 50k isn't really a lot of money in the grand scheme of things
06:19 AM XXCoder: thats why i said cheap, most websites never show price though
06:20 AM sync: that's also a nice thing about haas
06:20 AM sync: you can order from their webstore and it costs exactly that
06:21 AM XXCoder: thats a postive I guess
06:37 AM miss0r: gcardinal: Did you have a look at the mill?
06:38 AM gcardinal: miss0r its 2h drive - I arranged a meeting tomorrow - at work today :/
06:38 AM miss0r: gcardinal: ahh - not everyone have the day off, like me :]
06:39 AM miss0r: best day off in a long time: wife= happy, Kid= sleeping, mailserver= back up and running after crash yesterday, me= in airconditioned workshop with a cold soda :]
06:40 AM gcardinal: miss0r ohhh:) perfect - I guess there will be some milling as well ?:)
06:40 AM miss0r: gcardinal: Yeah, but I will wait till later, when the family is asleep - thats where I do my best work.
06:41 AM miss0r: You have me curious; what is it you do for a living, since you have the time to write in here?
06:42 AM gcardinal: I see :) Im a CIO at financial company - we use IRC to talk to our hosting company - thats why I have it at work :)
06:42 AM miss0r: CIO... what does that stand for?
06:42 AM XXCoder: chief iquistor organizer
06:42 AM miss0r: sounds fancy :]
06:42 AM gcardinal: lol :P chief information officer
06:43 AM XXCoder: heh
06:43 AM gcardinal: its fancy for it director
06:43 AM gcardinal: I do programming and have a small team of developers
06:44 AM miss0r: Sweet. its been a while since I did any real programming, now'a'days all i do in that department is PLC based. But my background came in handy, when I had to write a postprocessor for mastercam to be able to talk to the old maho mill
06:46 AM gcardinal: miss0r even I code at least 5-6h a day, PLC and postprocessors is a dream for me :) hope I will learn gcode and be able to do some work manually
06:46 AM gcardinal: even cooler would be to learn python and write a cool gui
06:47 AM miss0r: gcardinal: Don't worry too much about the gcode. if you can do regular programming, gcode will be a walk in the park, assuming you know your trigonometry.
06:47 AM miss0r: or know how to grab a calculator ;)
06:49 AM miss0r: hehe, I actually have alot of titles; Owner, CEO, PR director, floor sweeper, IT manager, HR cheif... the many perks of being self employed :D
06:49 AM miss0r: also, i'm a daytime electrician
06:52 AM jthornton: I know that feeling
06:54 AM miss0r: Nothing lasts forever. I need to go check on the kid. see you around
06:54 AM gcardinal: miss0r thats badass if you ask me:) actually the main reason I got the mill and started on this path is to work a bit more from home and just try to find alternative income which is not programming related
06:54 AM miss0r: and you want to do gcode :>
06:54 AM miss0r: hehehe. see you around
06:54 AM gcardinal: miss0r hehe yeah no reasoning behind it ;))
06:58 AM XXCoder: wow
06:58 AM XXCoder: found more clickspring video! on make channel apparently, so not captioned. :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaRY-58a60A
07:02 AM rwlloyd: ah yes, there are a couple of them. theres a scribe, gyroscope and fire piston i believe
07:02 AM XXCoder: one I linked not captioned which is much sad
07:03 AM rwlloyd: are custom mcodes blocking if you give it a variable?
07:05 AM archivist: try one and see
07:09 AM rwlloyd: yep, just writing one now. never done it before.
07:11 AM rwlloyd: https://pastebin.com/y5RsGRrD
07:11 AM rwlloyd: does that look reasonable?
07:12 AM XXCoder: I dont know enough hal
07:13 AM XXCoder: well structurally it looks ok to me
07:15 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ExQ4utHEo
07:16 AM archivist: rwlloyd, dont need to write an m code when motion.digital-out-00 - (bit, out) These pins (00, 01, 02, 03 or more if configured) are controlled by the M62-65.
07:17 AM sync: XXCoder: just out of curiosity, would a cochlea implant make you hear or are you missing the nerve?
07:17 AM XXCoder: waardensberg syndome
07:18 AM XXCoder: most of people with that has very weak nerve connection
07:18 AM XXCoder: I'm one of quite rare ones that dont have ANY
07:19 AM archivist: needs direct connection to brain then
07:20 AM XXCoder: or nerve splice to use working ear stuff
07:20 AM XXCoder: nothing wrong with my ears unless one of ear infection or loud noise or whatever damaged it
07:24 AM sync: yeah, a brain stem implant would work then
07:25 AM XXCoder: probably but well theres one problem
07:25 AM XXCoder: I never properly grew hearing centers in brain
07:25 AM XXCoder: so its essentally worthless to do this
07:26 AM XXCoder: sure I could hear afterwards but never to level of you guys
07:29 AM rwlloyd: archivist: yeah, i've tried those. by the time the signal gets through the system, everything has stopped. It's the laser shutter that's too slow.... i think timing the pulse train might be the only way to go at this point
07:33 AM archivist: rwlloyd, you can add a delay
07:34 AM archivist: the queue busting mentioned before by others needs a queue sync
07:35 AM rwlloyd: ok. i know those words, but im not sure what you mean. to what can i add a delay?
07:36 AM rwlloyd: ive just tried my custom mcode. all it does is stop the machine in its tracks
07:36 AM archivist: I am also thinking the raster scanning is the easier way to experiment
07:37 AM archivist: I dont know which needs delay, motion or laser
07:38 AM rwlloyd: in the long term, i agree. However, i need to bootstrap this thing until i can get my head round how to implement something like rastering on a rotary axis
07:39 AM archivist: you could also use the motion start signal via a delay to start the laser
07:39 AM rwlloyd: either, I need the laser to turn off automatically, a set time after it turned on
07:39 AM archivist: there is a one shot comp
07:40 AM rwlloyd: or, i need the laser to turn off a small distance before the end of the move, but only on the final move before the m5 command
07:41 AM archivist: lots of comps to play with http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/
07:42 AM rwlloyd: hmmm, the motion start signal might be worth looking into
07:43 AM archivist: by putting a separate short move at the end and having it switched off by m65 before the final short move
07:46 AM rwlloyd: it seems that any mcode that affects the laser or shutter is too slow from my experiments so far
07:48 AM archivist: this is why you need to know that delay and allow for it
07:49 AM rwlloyd: agreed... i guess i should go and find an oscilloscope....
07:50 AM archivist: in printing we had left right delays to offset the image to align vertically as we had bidirectional printing
08:02 AM rwlloyd: was that using LCNC?
08:15 AM gcardinal: small ini quastion, when setting for instance MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0 - what does it actually mean in the real world numbers ?
08:24 AM archivist: rwlloyd, no but the concept is similar
08:25 AM archivist: rwlloyd, we had hardware interrupt to tell the processor when to fire as well
08:26 AM JT-Shop: gcardinal: it's spelled out in the documents configuration axes
08:28 AM gcardinal: JT-Shop sorry for bad quastion, how do I know if 15 inch/s^2 is correct number for my machine?
08:28 AM gcardinal: what is too much and what is to litle. or what is the procedure to come up with good numbers?
08:33 AM gregcnc: that's a fairly complicated question
08:42 AM archivist: there is a slider to experiment in stepcont
08:47 AM JT-Shop: you need to start with the max rpm and the gearing to find the absolute max then back off from that say 25% or so
08:48 AM gcardinal: okay so its trial and error to find max and just back it off a bit
08:48 AM archivist: a bit ++
08:49 AM archivist: you need some overhead for cutting load and slide friction and mass on the axes
08:50 AM archivist: friction shoots up with off center loads
08:53 AM gcardinal: archivist okay, so if I have a config of a weaker machine - and I know that my drivers and stepper motors can do better - I just go with that config as a safe starting point?
08:54 AM archivist: I originally setup like that but later had stalling problems so had to slow it down even more
09:00 AM gcardinal: archivist okay thank you, will keep it in mind. still waiting for my vice so cant really test it
09:13 AM daz__ is now known as d42
09:33 AM CaptHindsight: life hard, sometimes make brain hurt
09:40 AM rwlloyd: welcome to the brain pain club....
09:45 AM CaptHindsight: rwlloyd: what make your laser move? galvo or screw driver stage?
09:46 AM CaptHindsight: driver/driven
09:50 AM rwlloyd: the laser stays still. but the part manipulation is done with a combination of stepper driven screws and stepper driven rotary axis'
09:50 AM CaptHindsight: for your rastering on rotary axis are you wrapping a plane around a cylinder or have plane on top surface of rotary table?
09:51 AM CaptHindsight: ah make part move not laser
09:51 AM rwlloyd: sort of. except that cylinder is a cone.
09:52 AM CaptHindsight: line art or images/graphics?
09:53 AM rwlloyd: and im not rastering really. thats just a suggested area to look for a solution.
09:54 AM CaptHindsight: if graphics, Blender can make the wrap for you
09:54 AM rwlloyd: essentially, im drawing a spiral down the cone, but using a pulsed laser so I get a hole every 0.25mm. 1 laser shot = 1 hole.
09:55 AM rwlloyd: I've already written a python script to give me gcode for the conical spiral....
09:56 AM CaptHindsight: ah easy one, me have inkjet that print on shapes
09:57 AM CaptHindsight: you no have to worry about wrapping
09:58 AM rwlloyd: no, just turning the bloody laser off in time at the end of the line of holes
09:59 AM CaptHindsight: M64 P- - turn on digital output immediately. The P- word specifies the digital output number.
09:59 AM CaptHindsight: sorry meant M65
10:00 AM CaptHindsight: but if laser have to slow a response then still no good
10:03 AM rwlloyd: no, but if i combine it with an and2 and put it at the start of an extra rotary move, I might be able to get it to keep the axis moving while everything turns off
10:03 AM rwlloyd: is that the correct train of thought?
10:03 AM CaptHindsight: The Origin of Smalltalk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0ef6NhY74
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: me need to see more of machine to make brain think
10:04 AM miss0r: i build a "vaultdoor" some years back. it is installed in my mancave in the basement. it has a keypad for the fast locks. Now I can't fint the keys that can open the door from the outside without having the keypad working... feck!
10:05 AM _methods: ultimate security
10:05 AM miss0r: yeah... I knew for absolut certain that the spare keys were in my nightstand. but I can't find them :@
10:05 AM CaptHindsight: rwlloyd: did something similar when dispensing high viscosity fluids with pneumatic nozzles
10:06 AM rwlloyd: https://imgur.com/a/nXfq8
10:06 AM miss0r: luckily that is only the fast locks. The door can be locked with a big leaver on the inside engaging 2x 32mm stainless rods on each side of the door(4 total) :D
10:06 AM CaptHindsight: OFF to nozzle did not have an immediate effect on fluid coming out from nozzle tip
10:06 AM rwlloyd: YES! pretty much exactly that
10:07 AM miss0r: I wish my life had a google search engine... 'locate keys'
10:08 AM CaptHindsight: M62-M65 and short moves did trick at end of dispense path
10:09 AM CaptHindsight: _methods: you like mammoth?
10:10 AM rwlloyd: ok, im going to go steep my brain in coffee for a bit while i work out what changes to the hal file i need to make. Cheers for the brain power, hopefully i'll get this working by the end of the day.
10:10 AM _methods: yeah not bad
10:10 AM _methods: the snow was pretty good when i was there
10:11 AM _methods: decent skiing for california
10:13 AM CaptHindsight: rwlloyd: https://ibin.co/w800/2aq0JWfJZfXK.jpg the fluid was similar to axle grease at room temp
10:21 AM rwlloyd: you didnt happen to do it with LCNC and have a backup of the hal files to hand do you?
10:22 AM CaptHindsight: it's 800 miles away from me right now, all LCNC
10:23 AM rwlloyd: bugger
10:24 AM rwlloyd: i think im going to be using this as a starting point https://github.com/bjj/2x_laser/blob/master/2x_Laser.hal
10:26 AM rwlloyd: the idea of having M3/M5 as a master on off and using M64 P1 as the shutter toggle. P0 already brings the laser power supply out of standby mode.
10:28 AM rwlloyd: i am correct in thinking that M65 PX doesn't interrupt axis movement?
11:43 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, got my magnetic base, but it has weird contraption on the end instead of "normal" clamp for an indicator. Not sure how it works.
11:44 AM LeelooMinai: Any ideas? : http://i.imgur.com/qeaihGz.jpg
11:44 AM LeelooMinai: The serrated part is not threaded - it's just a dovel/pin.
11:45 AM archivist: knurled means turn or push/pull
11:45 AM roycroft: that's normal, leeloominai
11:45 AM LeelooMinai: Right, ok, but how is this supposed to work
11:45 AM roycroft: unscrew that knurled screw
11:45 AM roycroft: and pass it through the mounting hole on the back of your indicator
11:45 AM LeelooMinai: It's not a screw - it's just a thick "pin"
11:46 AM roycroft: and screw it back into the holder
11:46 AM roycroft: if it's a pin then that's odd
11:46 AM archivist: it clamps in the hole
11:46 AM roycroft: the pin with the knurled knob clamps in?
11:46 AM LeelooMinai: Well, ok, I can unscrew it, I see.
11:47 AM roycroft: or is that a spring-loaded pin?
11:47 AM roycroft: that is meant for a dial indicator, not a test indicator
11:48 AM roycroft: so i have a lathe speed question/issue
11:48 AM roycroft: i got some 12L14 to use for aligning my tailstock
11:48 AM roycroft: it's 1" in diameter
11:48 AM LeelooMinai: No, nothing seems to be spring-loaded there.
11:48 AM roycroft: or, at least, it used to be
11:48 AM roycroft: i cut a piece 32" long
11:49 AM roycroft: i can run it at 140rpm and it works fairly well
11:49 AM LeelooMinai: I will take it apart and make a photo.
11:49 AM roycroft: if i go to 540rpm i get a lot of oscillation and vibration
11:49 AM roycroft: i should be able to machine at 1220rpm, according to my calculations, but i know that i have to slow things down when turning between centers
11:49 AM roycroft: but should i have to run it that slowly?
11:49 AM roycroft: or is something else wrong?
11:50 AM * roycroft is not used to turning long pieces
11:51 AM roycroft: before i removed about 85% of the metal on the lathe dog i made even 140rpm caused a lot of oscillation
11:51 AM roycroft: now it's lean and mean
11:51 AM gregcnc: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/PT22429
11:51 AM LeelooMinai: It looks like this, but no springs there: http://i.imgur.com/r1YCHNb.jpg
11:51 AM JT-Shop: do you have a following rest?
11:51 AM roycroft: no, i do not
11:52 AM roycroft: i need to get one
11:52 AM roycroft: i also don't have a steady rest
11:52 AM TurBoss: hello
11:52 AM roycroft: both are available, but i'm trying to tune up this lathe as best i can before invsting more money in it
11:52 AM TurBoss: I did this :
11:52 AM TurBoss: https://thingiverse-production-new.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/48/ab/5f/0e/88/d5217aec4c3db77daedf161861450be5_preview_featured.jpg
11:52 AM roycroft: just in case there's something horribly wrong with it
11:52 AM JT-Shop: if you just need to work on a small part of the long part a steady rest works
11:53 AM roycroft: and that's all i need to do right now
11:53 AM LeelooMinai: JT-Shop: You unglued some laminate and the pieces were left on? :)
11:53 AM roycroft: i am trying to turn a 0.75" wide section on each end of the piece
11:53 AM roycroft: to check for taper
11:53 AM roycroft: i have the whole middle of the piece turned down smaller than the test areas
11:53 AM roycroft: which, of course, makes it oscillate more
11:54 AM roycroft: and i can do the turning at 140rpm
11:54 AM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: My test indicator has two little mounting pieces with different diameters.
11:54 AM roycroft: the finish isn't the greatest, but it's good enough to mike
11:55 AM roycroft: leeloominai: that mount is for a dial indicator with a tab on the back that has a hole in it
11:55 AM roycroft: not for a test indicator with dovetail mounts
11:55 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, right, I see. I may have to McGyver it then because I got it for the microadjust part.
11:57 AM LeelooMinai: What is this smaller hole there for though? http://i.imgur.com/QQ1KAj9.jpg
11:57 AM LeelooMinai: It has two small holes at 90 degree to the big ones.
11:58 AM gregcnc: the shaft of the dovetail clamp
11:58 AM LeelooMinai: No, those would be the big holes - but there two small diameter ones too.
11:59 AM archivist: use any sized hole to suit your indicator
11:59 AM gregcnc: I must be wrong even though i've used them before for that purpose
12:00 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I wonder if I can just put the test indicator deovetail pin into those small holes and disregard the whole big pin with knob.
12:00 PM gregcnc: eh she must have me on ignore
12:01 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: No, just misunderstood what the "dovetail clamp" is.
12:02 PM archivist: it fits some indicator types
12:03 PM LeelooMinai: My test indicator has two of those clamps - with smaller and larger diameter.
12:03 PM LeelooMinai: So I guess I am fine.
12:03 PM gregcnc: http://rick.sparber.org/Articles/DTI/Image78.jpg
12:04 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Did you find that expensive Noga arm worht 4x price of the Chinese ones?
12:05 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: Right, that looks a bit ancient...
12:06 PM gregcnc: concepts haven't changed
12:06 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but my test indicator uses completely different system of mounting it.
12:07 PM gregcnc: so you do or do not have a mount with a short shaft on it?
12:07 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: It looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/aSFb4kC.png
12:07 PM gregcnc: it has dovetails and
12:07 PM LeelooMinai: And it has two of those cylindrical pins and you can slide them on long and short side.
12:07 PM gregcnc: perfect
12:08 PM gregcnc: if they don't fit the indicator base you bought well, you need more stuff
12:08 PM archivist: justified and ancient
12:09 PM LeelooMinai: archivist: Well, I just go what Chinese mostly sell:)
12:09 PM LeelooMinai: go with*
12:09 PM LeelooMinai: Seems this is the most popular system, so my guess is it's stolen from Mutitoyo or something.
12:10 PM archivist: "justified and ancient" is a song title from before your time :)
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:10 PM LeelooMinai: 1940?
12:10 PM archivist: 1991
12:10 PM LeelooMinai: lol... I was 21 then.
12:11 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, right, I just googled how Mutitoyo ones look and they use the same system.
12:12 PM archivist: and who did they steal it from
12:12 PM LeelooMinai: Chinese are like magic copying machine - Star Trek replicator:)
12:12 PM LeelooMinai: archivist: I don't know... Germans, US?
12:12 PM gregcnc: didn't patents on indicator holding expire a century ago?
12:13 PM LeelooMinai: Like Chinese care about patents:)
12:13 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if patents are a good thing anyways....
12:15 PM LeelooMinai: Probably overall more negative aspects than positive.
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: but we all benefitt in some cases
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: and DT did say today the Germany are bad
12:16 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, sure, that's why I was considering overall scenario.
12:17 PM LeelooMinai: DT?
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: Donald the Boss
12:17 PM LeelooMinai: But did he even once say anything that makes sense? :)
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: blame it on the Germans
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: Why the Hell are Us Coustemer buying German stuff
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: as Us fabrication is thee main target
12:18 PM gregcnc: should we stop?
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: always up to the coustemer itself
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: all your cars have ruined our once great nation
12:19 PM LeelooMinai: I read that he even talked to that Phillipine crazy leader on the phone and casualy mentioned that there are two nuclear submarines near Korea, just to brag - I mean 13 year old would have more sense.
12:20 PM LeelooMinai: Don't they have same basic tests for presidents? Like, I don't know, simple test from gepgraphy, math, basic concepts about politics? :)
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: how many people have died, lost jobs, lost health care, teeth etc because of german cars?
12:21 PM LeelooMinai: 7? :)
12:22 PM archivist: they die of pollution due to cheating german cars :)
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: cheating is the uhmerican way
12:22 PM archivist: yup GM is next on the firing block for that
12:23 PM roycroft: leeloominai: the tests are:
12:23 PM roycroft: 1. native born us citizen
12:23 PM roycroft: 2. 35 years old
12:23 PM roycroft: those are the only two tests
12:23 PM DaViruz: not counting the election
12:23 PM roycroft: what other countries do i do not know
12:23 PM roycroft: the election is not a test - it's a process
12:23 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I don't understand that - you need more credentials to be employed at Walmart.
12:24 PM gregcnc: popularity contest
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: uhmerican cars companies have destroyed the once great USA
12:24 PM roycroft: not necessarily even a popularity contest
12:24 PM roycroft: i think "a process" is the best way to defin it
12:24 PM roycroft: define
12:24 PM LeelooMinai: How can someone that has no idea about basic facts about world, lead the most powerful country.
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: like eating a melon
12:24 PM roycroft: when there may be voting irregularities or back room deals or influences from foreign powers, calling it "a process" is the only accurate way to describe it
12:25 PM roycroft: because that's what our constitution stipulated, leeloominai
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: a melon is not a popularity contest
12:25 PM roycroft: ironically
12:25 PM LeelooMinai: At this point I just assume that nearly all politicians are in fact professional trolls.
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: that would be silly
12:25 PM roycroft: the electoral college was designed as a final check on the vote, specifically to keep unqualified people like trump from becoming president
12:25 PM gregcnc: besides money leads the country
12:26 PM roycroft: yet it is the very vehicle that propelled him into the white house
12:27 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder if it will all lead to a situation like in s-f books. Where power is in hand of some Mega-companies, and 99% of people are poor and hopeless.
12:27 PM Jymmm: roycroft: Not a dahatsu?
12:27 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: bless you
12:28 PM roycroft: i see him more as a hummer kind of guy
12:28 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Thank you kind sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar
12:28 PM LeelooMinai: I guess people who keep voting hope that somehow they are meaner and smarter than others and will get to that 1%:)
12:28 PM roycroft: nyway
12:28 PM roycroft: it is friday
12:28 PM roycroft: and a holiday weekend is coming up
12:28 PM roycroft: so yay
12:30 PM LeelooMinai: I am ordering structural steel parts - seems that butting them is a big portion of their price...
12:31 PM LeelooMinai: The most economical way would be ordering huge long part and cut it, but I have not tools to do that.
12:31 PM LeelooMinai: butting=cutting
12:31 PM roycroft: you need a horizontal band saw
12:32 PM roycroft: there's plenty of room in your basement
12:32 PM LeelooMinai: Or one of those "chop saw" things.
12:32 PM LeelooMinai: With disks instead of blades.
12:32 PM roycroft: i have both
12:32 PM LeelooMinai: Which is better?
12:32 PM archivist: hacksaw and arm muscles
12:32 PM roycroft: if i had to choose i'd choose the horizontal band saw any day
12:32 PM LeelooMinai: Right, they are more expensive.
12:32 PM roycroft: or power hacksaw
12:32 PM roycroft: and quieter
12:33 PM archivist: used off ebay
12:33 PM roycroft: and more accurate
12:33 PM roycroft: and less messy
12:33 PM gregcnc: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1474681136/evezor-open-source-robotic-arm-manufacturing-platf
12:33 PM LeelooMinai: lol, I don't know if I want to cut 6mm steel angle with hacksaw-anything, power or not
12:33 PM roycroft: you can build a power hacksaw
12:34 PM LeelooMinai: Never saw such a thing - sounds a bit suspicious to me...
12:34 PM LeelooMinai: Like some of "redneck" invention:)
12:34 PM roycroft: 361865206621
12:35 PM roycroft: ack
12:35 PM roycroft: http://i.imgur.com/r1YCHNb.jpg
12:35 PM roycroft: and double ack
12:35 PM LeelooMinai: Hacksaw blad connected to truck enginge:)
12:35 PM gregcnc: quick drain his credit card
12:35 PM roycroft: my paste buffer is broken
12:35 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/361865206621
12:35 PM roycroft: that's what i meant to paste
12:35 PM LeelooMinai: Seems I was close...
12:35 PM roycroft: and it's not redneck
12:36 PM roycroft: that man in the drawing has a lab coat on
12:36 PM LeelooMinai: Could be a butcher gown:)
12:37 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322504068196
12:37 PM roycroft: there's a nice little commercial one
12:37 PM roycroft: a good fixer-upper
12:37 PM gregcnc: there are some big ones out there, why would anyone bother with something so slow?
12:38 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I guess at this point one may as well get that horizontal band saw.
12:38 PM roycroft: it would be a prudent investment
12:39 PM roycroft: you can't cut aluminium with an abrasive disc on a chop saw
12:39 PM roycroft: all you would do is gum it up
12:39 PM LeelooMinai: That hacksaw thng does not seem very versatile.
12:39 PM roycroft: with a bandsaw you can cut almost any metal
12:39 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Yes, I know.
12:39 PM roycroft: you should be able to get a used 4x6 bandsaw for around US$100
12:39 PM LeelooMinai: As I wrote once, I have a small bandaw, but it's close to useless.
12:40 PM sync: roycroft: you don't need a testbar to align your tailstock
12:40 PM LeelooMinai: I guess now I have aversion to band saws because of it:)
12:40 PM sync: there is a nifty trick
12:40 PM roycroft: i just saw a nifty trick last night
12:41 PM roycroft: turn a piece of metal the exact same diameter as the tailstock taper holder
12:41 PM sync: you turn a piece of stock to the same diameter as the tailstock and then just measure on top and on the side for any difference
12:41 PM roycroft: and butt them together
12:41 PM roycroft: yeah
12:41 PM LeelooMinai: lol
12:41 PM LeelooMinai: Hivemind
12:41 PM roycroft: i'm going to give that a go
12:41 PM roycroft: the only problem with that is that it aligns the tailstock close to the headstock
12:42 PM sync: that's usually ok tho
12:42 PM roycroft: that does not mean it's aligned at the far end of the ways
12:42 PM roycroft: well, 90+% of my work will be close to the headstock, so yes, generally
12:42 PM roycroft: but i'd like to try to line it up all along the ways
12:42 PM roycroft: i'm definitely going to use that technique though
12:43 PM sync: well, if you turn for taper you only align it to the back of the ways
12:43 PM gregcnc: if the bed isn't straight how does that help?
12:43 PM sync: unless you verify the alignment of the ways it has the same issue
12:45 PM roycroft: i aligned the ways as best i could
12:45 PM roycroft: and i aligned the tailstock at the far end of the bed
12:45 PM roycroft: my intent is to check alignment at other locations along the bed as well
12:45 PM gregcnc: the proof will be when you actually cut a shaft that long
12:46 PM roycroft: yes
12:46 PM roycroft: and based on my initial turning of a long shaft, i am not going to be doing that until i have a follow rest
12:48 PM roycroft: i'm still curious about the oscillation i was getting
12:48 PM roycroft: whether that's to be expected or not
12:49 PM gregcnc: entire lathe was moving?
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: gregcnc: bad tooling
12:54 PM roycroft: it was vibrating a bit
12:54 PM roycroft: ichguckslive: i was turning a long shaft between centers
12:55 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Wouldn't anti-vibration pads help?
12:55 PM roycroft: a big part of the problem was that i did not have any lathe dogs, so i made one out of a huge piece of steel, and it was unbalanced
12:55 PM roycroft: now i've removed 85% of the steel from the dog
12:55 PM roycroft: and it oscillates a lot less
12:55 PM roycroft: but it still does a little bit
12:55 PM roycroft: if i slow the lathe down the problem goes away almost completely
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: how straight you get it
12:56 PM gregcnc: so it's unbalanced
12:56 PM roycroft: i'm not used to turning long shafts, so i'm just trying to determine if the current situation is "normal" or not
12:56 PM LeelooMinai: Not sure what is the general idea. I know that heavy machines with motors, etc. benefit from anti-vibration pads, but do things like lathes, cncs, etc. benefit too, or they are better mounted rigidly to the concrete floor, etc.?
12:56 PM gregcnc: they will help prevent the floor from transmitting the vibration
12:56 PM roycroft: leeloominai: the problem is that it's a long, relatively thin shaft
12:56 PM roycroft: one end is unbalanced because of the lathe dog
12:57 PM roycroft: the shaft oscillates in the center
12:57 PM gregcnc: i'd say normal, what can you expect if it's unbalanced
12:57 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: But cannot it also cancel some harmonics in the machine itself?
12:57 PM roycroft: when i run it at "high speed" (540rpm) i can see the middle of the shaft whipping up and down a bit
12:57 PM roycroft: ok
12:57 PM roycroft: so i just turn it at slow speed and i'm fine
12:57 PM roycroft: and if i had a follow rest it would probably work a lot better
12:57 PM gregcnc: critical shaft speed, maybe too tight between centers
12:57 PM roycroft: or even a steady rest, if i could use it
12:58 PM roycroft: for tailstock alignment i can't really use a steady rest, because i can't move the cross slide when moving from end to end
12:58 PM gregcnc: stock isn't straight, etc.etc.
12:58 PM LeelooMinai: I mean, say you have some extreme example, a washer machine - I can imagine that it having rubbery feet would be a good idea:)
12:58 PM roycroft: when i got significant improvement by making the dog so much smaller i figured that being unbalanced was the main problem
12:59 PM roycroft: leeloominai: the lathe is on anti-vibration pads
12:59 PM roycroft: well, the lathe stand is
12:59 PM roycroft: and the lathe is firmly bolted to the stand
01:00 PM roycroft: http://www.roycroft.us/LatheOnStand2.jpeg
01:00 PM roycroft: you can see the leveling legs in that picture, with the anti-vibration pads
01:00 PM LeelooMinai: I also had a wird idea of using thick steel wires on four corners of the stand and attach them to the floor - like for a mast/tent/etc. - but not sure if that's sane.
01:01 PM archivist: time to DTI the spindle and then gently lift the spindle nose to check for wear
01:01 PM LeelooMinai: But that should act a bit like a dumpener.
01:01 PM roycroft: i cannot detect any runout in the spindle
01:02 PM LeelooMinai: dampener*
01:02 PM archivist: not runout but clearance
01:02 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: You just need to measure with more decimal places:)
01:02 PM roycroft: with a 0.0005" dti the probe does not move at all, either on the spindle taper or the outside of the spindle
01:02 PM gregcnc: leeloo granite
01:02 PM roycroft: i haven't checked for end play yet
01:03 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: I know - preferably a granit column going from my room, through mom's living room, to the basement, and then further into the rock layers under the house. I got it:)
01:03 PM gregcnc: perfect
01:04 PM archivist: when I say gently lift I mean with a wooden lever to make sure any oil film is squashed
01:04 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i follow you about clearance, archivist?
01:04 PM roycroft: you mean within the bearing housing?
01:04 PM gregcnc: it has taper rollers doesn't it?
01:04 PM roycroft: yes
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.electronicproducts.com/Mobile/Devices/Walabot_snaps_on_to_your_Android_phone_to_let_you_see_behind_walls.aspx
01:05 PM archivist: taper rollers should have 0 play and no vibration
01:05 PM roycroft: ok
01:05 PM roycroft: and runout + end play check would not determine that?
01:05 PM roycroft: as i said, i haven't measured end play yet
01:05 PM archivist: no end play either
01:05 PM roycroft: but that's on my short list of things to do
01:05 PM archivist: some preload allowed
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://walabot.com/walabot-tech-brief-416.pdf
01:06 PM roycroft: i'm not sure what would be the best way to check end play
01:07 PM roycroft: i thought i'd give the outside end of the spindle a little whack with a dead blow hammer
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: now i just need to sell my wall shields to block these
01:07 PM roycroft: set up an indicator on it
01:07 PM roycroft: and then press on the chuck with the tailstock
01:07 PM roycroft: and see if it moves
01:07 PM archivist: push pull no whacking
01:07 PM roycroft: it would be a very gentle whack
01:07 PM roycroft: you think that hand pressure would be enough?
01:07 PM LeelooMinai: CaptHindsight: Impressive. Almost cinematic-like quality and resolution of the image: http://i.imgur.com/6Zmu3OG.jpg
01:08 PM archivist: roycroft, hand pressure often shows up faults
01:08 PM roycroft: i'll give it a go
01:08 PM sync: you can also use a 2x4 to give you leverage
01:08 PM roycroft: i'm far from thinking the machine will be useful
01:09 PM archivist: it is interesting how much stuff springs under a little finger pressure
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: how small can your hands be for this to not work?
01:10 PM archivist: I can get one indicator full scale on a 2" par over 6" with a little finger
01:10 PM archivist: bar
01:10 PM roycroft: i may want to inspect the spindle bearings anyway
01:10 PM roycroft: i have that issue with the oil level going down in the sight glass for the right side bearing
01:10 PM roycroft: and i want to sort out what's going on there
01:11 PM archivist: indicator is rather sensitive though http://www.collection.archivist.info/thumbs/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_13_comparator/IMG_1675_T.JPG
01:11 PM roycroft: it's not noisy, but it's still a little disconcerting
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: how did that lathe turn out to be after drying and cleaning?
01:12 PM roycroft: i just got it on the stand last week
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: is this the lathe? http://www.roycroft.us/LatheOnStand2.jpeg
01:12 PM roycroft: and i was just able to align the ways
01:12 PM roycroft: yes
01:12 PM roycroft: and
01:12 PM roycroft: http://www.roycroft.us/LatheOnStand1.jpeg
01:12 PM archivist: inverted image
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: did you make the stand?
01:13 PM roycroft: it was intended for an australian audience, archivist
01:13 PM roycroft: yes, i did, capthindsight
01:13 PM roycroft: and i'm going to build some drawer units to go in each side
01:13 PM roycroft: and probably install a center drawer
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: no coolant?
01:13 PM roycroft: no coolant
01:13 PM roycroft: at least not at this point
01:14 PM roycroft: the color of the stand is the color i paint all my machines
01:14 PM roycroft: so whenever i get to that point i'll repaint the lathe as well
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: I'm still looking for a small manual lathe that better than the Enco's and similar I got rid of
01:15 PM roycroft: but it's more important that it work well than that it looks good
01:15 PM roycroft: so my focus is on making it work well right now
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft blue?
01:15 PM roycroft: yes
01:17 PM roycroft: i should probably go ahead and order the steady rest and follow rest at this point
01:17 PM roycroft: i think the machine will be useful
01:17 PM sync: that changed quickly
01:18 PM roycroft: although a 3 phase motor and vfd would make me happier, i think :)
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: looks better than some lathes I've sold for 3-4x what you paid
01:18 PM roycroft: not really, sync
01:18 PM gregcnc: people make useful parts with much less
01:18 PM roycroft: i've been leaning towards "it's a keeper" for a few days now, since i started testing it
01:19 PM roycroft: i've still not swung all the way there - it's borderline
01:19 PM roycroft: and i'm not going to order the stuff today anyway
01:19 PM roycroft: probably by the end of the weekend i'll know
01:19 PM gregcnc: what are your concerns?
01:19 PM roycroft: that there might be somthing horribly wrong that i'm not experienced enough to repair
01:20 PM roycroft: but those concerns have waned
01:20 PM roycroft: the ways seem to be quite straight, with very little wear
01:20 PM roycroft: no measurable spindle runout
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/6127443062.html $2500
01:20 PM roycroft: those are the two big things, as far as i know
01:21 PM roycroft: the lathe has been crashed, multiple times, as is obvious by observing the cross slide and top slide
01:22 PM roycroft: that raised some alarms
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: oohh heres one like yours https://janesville.craigslist.org/tls/6143699097.html
01:23 PM gregcnc: mine was crashed who know how many times actual chunks missing from the cross slide and compound
01:23 PM roycroft: yeah, the exact same model
01:23 PM roycroft: and it's not a common machine
01:23 PM roycroft: mine did not come with the 4 jaw or steady rest
01:24 PM roycroft: i just bought a 4 jaw - $133 delivered, and $80 for a chunk of cast iron for a backing plate if i can't scrounge something
01:24 PM roycroft: and the steady rest is $160 new
01:24 PM roycroft: so even adding those two items mine is less than half what the asking price for that one in janesville
01:25 PM roycroft: oh, the janesville one is a 1240, and mine is a 1236
01:25 PM roycroft: i don't need those extra 4"
01:26 PM roycroft: i'd rather have a 13x36 than a 12x40
01:26 PM roycroft: but 12x36 is fine
01:26 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 from Germany
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://janesville.craigslist.org/tls/6139215937.html Bruser turret lathe for <$1k
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: wasn't this up a few months ago? https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/hvo/6146592740.html
01:31 PM gregcnc: it was
01:32 PM roycroft: i'd have bought that were it closer to me
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: recall how much it was back then?
01:33 PM roycroft: like 2200 miles closer :)
01:33 PM gregcnc: last i saw it was 1000, but i'm sure it was more. wonder why it's not sold, they also had a mill
01:34 PM roycroft: https://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/6134324000.html
01:34 PM roycroft: that one has been on cl off and on for months now
01:34 PM roycroft: i bet i could have gotten it for a lot less than $2k
01:34 PM roycroft: florence is only an hour from here
01:34 PM roycroft: but it would have been difficult for me to transport
01:35 PM roycroft: it's a bit more lathe than i can really handle at the moment
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: and it's difficult to make M3 fasteners on it
01:38 PM roycroft: at this point, unless i discover something terribly wrong with the lathe i bought (and i highly doubt i shall), i'l be content with it for quite some time
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/6142127890.html atlas 10" $1250
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: looks like people are dumping their not sold lathes from earlier this spring
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://fortwayne.craigslist.org/tls/6118347935.html
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: Logan Metal Lathe With Electric Z axis, OBO Trade - $1200
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: look at the rust
01:42 PM gregcnc: that's called patina these days
01:42 PM gregcnc: and it costs more
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: red oxide treated
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://fortwayne.craigslist.org/tls/6124162793.html no pics but 24" swing and 9 foot between centyers
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: $1500
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/6113794072.html wow $950
01:49 PM roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311743623847
01:49 PM roycroft: that is very similar to mine, but with a spindle lever on the carriage
01:49 PM roycroft: i like mine better
01:49 PM roycroft: as it was over an order of magnitude less expensive
01:50 PM roycroft: and that ebay one is in the rust belt even!
01:50 PM roycroft: how can someone ask that much for it?
01:52 PM roycroft: now here's some good news:
01:52 PM roycroft: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40060394
01:53 PM roycroft: a 7km beer pipeline
01:55 PM * roycroft needs to go to germany to inspect the pipeline
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: Wacken Open Air (WOA) hard rock festival
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: great name
01:57 PM roycroft: yeah, it's too bad it's headbanger music
01:57 PM LeelooMinai: Wack'em'All
01:57 PM roycroft: the beer would be nice, but the music would be challenging for me
02:05 PM gregcnc: capthindsight i stopped at the brewery in algonquin yesterday
02:07 PM gregcnc: they're in an industrial park
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: yeah, not crazy about them
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: saw your beer over at the Butera near Algonquin and Randal
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: I've needed to use those copper cone gaskets between brass fittings since the factory did not install valves/service ports on a manifold
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: I had a few places where the copper manifold had brass flare fittings that I had to add brass flare fittings to
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.jbind.com/products/product-search-detail.aspx?SKU=A31853 for example
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: When you use a washer you match it to the screw hardness?
02:31 PM gregcnc: i have to remember to buy a case at Binny's
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: I know a nut probably needs to be softer, but not sure about washer.
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I've been mostly drinking sours, lambics and fruit beers
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: the ones at scorched earth did not impress
02:33 PM gregcnc: i'm not too picky, I took home a growler of the porter
02:33 PM gregcnc: just no lawn mowing beer
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: heh
02:33 PM Simonious: live active LENR test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtuzP7Zud4M&feature=youtu.be documentation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puq-FskyCZyFlshjBF4AF53TEB9tzgWQO2My0hVFGsg/edit# data collection: https://plot.ly/~QuantumHeat/29/aura-flow-temperature-power/#plot
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: not a big beer drinker anymore
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: was getting too big
02:34 PM roycroft: i just brewed a robust porter
02:34 PM roycroft: as in saturday last
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: please invite me over if you make any sours :)
02:34 PM LeelooMinai: Simonious: lol...
02:35 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: yeah, I'm highly skeptical, but wouldn
02:35 PM Simonious: 't it be something?
02:35 PM roycroft: i generally use the same grade washers as my bolts/screws and nuts
02:35 PM gregcnc: what's going on in that feed?
02:35 PM roycroft: and same material
02:35 PM LeelooMinai: A guy holding a wooden stick and stirring something in a bucket - looks plausible:)
02:35 PM Simonious: gregcnc: they are measuring water in vs water out, to see if the heating produced by the device is in excess of the energy put into the device.
02:36 PM gregcnc: for clarity they used a potatocam from 1983
02:36 PM LeelooMinai: Wouldn't stirring something put energy in? :p
02:36 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: yes, but not a lot, they are just balancing the temp out in the water.
02:37 PM Simonious: LeelooMinai: if they get a postive result, which isn't likely, it'll exceed that inputted from a stick
02:37 PM LeelooMinai: Well, good luck I guess...
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: from what I've read from the white paper it looks like a banana powered battery
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: but I could be wrong
02:37 PM Simonious: CaptHindsight: the bananna is a radiation calibration source.
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: of cource banana power would be silly
02:38 PM * Simonious shrugs
02:38 PM Simonious: there are real LENR effects, just none that produce more energy than they take to maintain.
02:39 PM LeelooMinai: . <- that's the size of my enthusiasm for this video:)
02:39 PM Simonious: For instance Muon Catalyzed Fusion
02:39 PM Simonious: It's a real thing, but you'll come out behind on it.
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.e-catworld.com/what-is-lenr/
02:50 PM Simonious: It's a laboratory curiousity since it takes more energy in that you'll get out.
02:50 PM Simonious: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2016/ph241/yoon1/
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: body power is the future
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: there was even a film about it
02:53 PM SpeedEvil: The Matrix.
02:53 PM gregcnc: should i pull out of renewable stocks?
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/new-battery-free-implant-powered-your-body
02:53 PM * Simonious chuckles
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IojqOMWTgv8 The Matrix - Battery
02:56 PM gregcnc: am i crazy or is the bucket colder than the surroundings?
02:56 PM LeelooMinai: They created a micro black hole.
02:56 PM Simonious: gregcnc: they are using a bizzarre temperature scale
02:56 PM Simonious: they *should* be using the iron scale
02:57 PM gregcnc: for more clarity
02:57 PM * Simonious nods
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: fartowitz?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: or the even more bizzare supercalifragalisticsuperalidocius scale?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: or similar
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: maybe it's a recursive temperature scale where 20 is 40 and 60 is also 20 when it gets above 100
03:01 PM * Loetmichel_ thinks its interesting how much "mojo" washing machine manufacturers put into their machines. Ours just tried to get the clothes balanced 4 times before giving up instead of going up to 1600rpm to dry them. opened it: fond a leggins knotted around the rest of the clothes into one big ball. removed the knot, started the spinning action again: spins happily up to 1600 rpm. arent i lucky
03:01 PM * Loetmichel_ that the manufacturers spend that machine an unbalance-sensor? ;)
03:03 PM LeelooMinai: The wierdest thing I saw on an appliance, was some "Sabbath" mode on a kitchen stove - had to google around to see if it's not some mistake, but no:)
03:04 PM Loetmichel_: no cooking on saturday for jews, isnt it?
03:04 PM Loetmichel_: or was it just "no activating machines"?
03:05 PM LeelooMinai: From what I read they has whole set of weird rules for machines - I loled throughut it so now I don't remember details:)
03:07 PM Loetmichel_: IIRC ultra orthodox jews are not allowed to oerate ANY machinery on sabbath. not even the lift to their flat. they have to take the stairs if it involves pressing a button...
03:08 PM Loetmichel_: IIRC there is even a lift mode that stops on every level for saturdays in some areas
03:08 PM Loetmichel_: so they can use it without "operating" it
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: "On some holidays, food may be cooked, but turning the heat on is prohibited."
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: They are nuts imo, but whatever I guess:)
03:29 PM Todd_Z_: Have you ever seen what an un-ballanced washing machine can do to itself?
03:30 PM Crom: For those of you with people you're needing presents for who sew. This is a calculator for cutting full circle skirts. I just used it for making bottoms (peplums) for 12 Cossack jackets I just made for a play. https://pastebin.com/0upZ2SwE
03:31 PM Crom: Arduino UNO and a ebay df Robot 16 x 2 LCD display
03:31 PM Crom: with 6buttons
03:31 PM Crom: It works.. It's not pretty.. could use some editing
03:34 PM DrippityDrops: n1 Crom
03:37 PM Loetmichel_: Todd_Z_: yes. especially since the modern machines are no longer 250lbs and 800 rpm but rather 90lbs and 1600 rpm... and more than double the clothes weight capacity
03:37 PM Todd_Z_: This video cracks me up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lIR2NKY98c
03:38 PM Loetmichel_: yeah, no imagine that with double the rpm... ;)
03:40 PM Todd_Z_: We still use an old Maytag toploader at home. (It isn't very fast)
03:41 PM Loetmichel_: <- german. over here the machines were horizontal drums like in your vid since the beginning of them
03:42 PM Loetmichel_: and nowadays there are some out that can do 2400 RPM with 5.5kg clothes in them... its practically shelve dry after that spinning
03:51 PM andypugh: With a terrible lash-up of a power supply my induction heater melts the solder in a pewter pot in no time.
03:51 PM andypugh: https://goo.gl/photos/b5KFx51Sfn71Lcsp9
03:55 PM SpeedEvil: :)
03:58 PM Crom: is there a ring that's soldered in holding the glass?
03:58 PM Roguish: andypugh: there is a little secret to things
03:59 PM Roguish: I have several.
04:00 PM Roguish: the Power supply has to be on before the induction part is on, otherwise the induction thing won't go into resonance and work.
04:00 PM Roguish: especially true if a switching PS is used.
04:01 PM Roguish: i have a switch between the PS and the induction part.
04:02 PM Roguish: the tubing coil is meant to have coolant flowing to cool the coil, but gotta separate the circuits as the water is conductive.....
04:04 PM andypugh-iPhone: Logging in then immediately saying yes to a restart software update was silly.
04:04 PM XXCoder: andypugh-iPhone: welcome to windows
04:05 PM andypugh-iPhone: OS X actually
04:05 PM XXCoder: I love linux, it can update without reboot 99% of time
04:05 PM XXCoder: lol ok
04:06 PM andypugh-iPhone: Blame BAD?
04:06 PM andypugh-iPhone: BSD That is.
04:06 PM XXCoder: BAD?
04:06 PM XXCoder: ah
04:06 PM andypugh-iPhone: iPhone smell chucker
04:09 PM andypugh: As soon as the phone goes to sleep, that client quits.
04:09 PM LeelooMinai: Sad - metric hext nuts are strangly expensive in local stores. It's ridiculous - just noticed that I can get them cheaper from China even for the titanium ones:)
04:09 PM andypugh: It is a silly thing
04:10 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: i thought you were polish?
04:10 PM andypugh: Alibaba.com were offering me silver glitter in ton quantities today
04:11 PM Loetmichel_: since when do poland use imperial?
04:11 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: Well, Polish/Canadian - I live in Ontario/Canada.
04:11 PM Loetmichel_: ah, i see
04:11 PM Loetmichel_: but then again: isnt canada officially metric country?
04:12 PM LeelooMinai: In theory, but in practice, not really - I think mainly because US influence, etc.
04:12 PM roycroft: metric fastners are inexpensive in the us, if you get them from the right place
04:12 PM roycroft: they're outrageously expensive in local hardware stores/home improvement centers
04:13 PM roycroft: metric tooling for machining, however, is fairly cost prohibitive
04:13 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, if you have nice stores online, but in Canada it's a bit worse, especially for hobbyists.
04:13 PM roycroft: which is why i machine in us customary units
04:13 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: i watch a canadian marina guy repair outboards on youtube regulary. he is complaining about the US outboard he gets because he cant get the imperial parts that easily... so i assumed... ;)
04:13 PM andypugh: I found metric fasteners withough too much trouble in SF when fixing the boat. Ace Hardware IIRC.
04:13 PM LeelooMinai: And buying hardware in Home Depot, etc. is not a good idea, yes:/
04:13 PM roycroft: i buy most of my fastners from eugene fastener, which is a local, privately owned shop
04:14 PM roycroft: and metric fasteners are priced quite similarly to their equivalent size us customary fasteners
04:14 PM roycroft: all of which is half or less the cost of us customary fasteners at hardware stores/home improvement centers
04:15 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: Pff... I remember the first time I went to hardware store in Canada and asked about something in cm, they looked at me as if I landed from Mars and said they don't know those units:)
04:15 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: luckily i have a "screw and tools" shop in walking distance here in germany.. and they are stocked with even the exotic ones here... 4/40 for PCs? not a problem. 6/32: same...
04:15 PM roycroft: we in the us also have mcmaster-carr for the truly exotic items
04:15 PM Loetmichel_: of course all the usual metric fasteners also
04:15 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: His name is Eugene Fastener? :)
04:15 PM roycroft: who shipped my most recent order out of la, not reno
04:15 PM roycroft: i do not know the owner's name
04:15 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: maybe its dependant on where you live in canada?
04:16 PM roycroft: eugene is named after our city's founder, eugene skinner
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: Well, I live in Ontario... I mean, not exactly exotic province.
04:16 PM roycroft: and principal skinner is named after our city's founder
04:16 PM andypugh: roycroft: So, it could have been worse.
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: Eugene Skinner...
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: Sounds like some serial murderer nickname:)
04:16 PM roycroft: and on the simpsons, springfield is really eugene
04:16 PM roycroft: and shelbyville is springfield
04:17 PM roycroft: springfield is the city across the river from eugene
04:17 PM andypugh: And they predicted President Trump. So you should be worried.
04:17 PM roycroft: i predicted president trump
04:17 PM roycroft: and i was and still am worried
04:17 PM roycroft: primarily because the democrats are still in denial
04:18 PM roycroft: and have no idea why they lost
04:18 PM Crom: Willamete valley... so beautiful!
04:19 PM LeelooMinai: They lost because that corrupted and dull beats corrupted and outrageous:)
04:19 PM LeelooMinai: because thought*
04:20 PM roycroft: they lost because they are elitist snobs, in large part
04:20 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm... If I have 12.9 screws, I would use something like 10.x nut for them, right?
04:21 PM roycroft: they chose a singularly weak candidate
04:21 PM LeelooMinai: I mean 12.9 hardness
04:21 PM Crom: LeelooMinai: yes
04:21 PM Crom: or you double nut them..
04:22 PM roycroft: which reminds me, nobody answered my question the other day
04:22 PM sync: Double nut does nothing
04:22 PM roycroft: does anyone know how oval-shaped distorted thread nuts are made?
04:22 PM roycroft: do they make round nuts, thread them, then heat them up and squeeze them?
04:22 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: Nuts softer than bolts is the rule. They can be much softer. Have you noticed that you can break steel bolts screwing into aluminium?
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: No:p
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: Did not really break any.
04:23 PM roycroft: you haven't tried hard enough then
04:23 PM Deejay: gn8
04:23 PM andypugh: roycroft: Pretty sure that’s what they do. Actually they probably squash them cold
04:24 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: What about washers? Same hardness as the screw?
04:25 PM andypugh: I have never found graded washers.
04:25 PM andypugh: Though I imagine they exist.
04:25 PM roycroft: i should think that would depend on the application
04:25 PM roycroft: i get grade 8 washers all the time
04:25 PM Crom: roycroft: Hmm.. not sure.... The ones I use are either the little retangle on 3 flats which deforms the inside or they are squeese the threaded portiondeformed on one side to deform the threads on one side at 2 or 4 places
04:25 PM LeelooMinai: Er, I have some that are shiny and soft and black and much harder. When I used soft ones they basically were squashed by the bolt head:/
04:25 PM roycroft: i just used some that are round at the flange end and oval at the other end
04:26 PM roycroft: there are several types of distorted thread nuts
04:28 PM Crom: hmm it eludes me... but I seem to remember a nute with a triangle thread profile... it was like the had a expanding mandle with threads and they shoved a pin into the mandrel to expand the threads into the nut body..
04:29 PM LeelooMinai: The hardest part with China hardware is figuring out what it is. Like nuts are H054 DIN934 Stainless Steel 304
04:30 PM roycroft: philidas nuts?
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: I think H054 may be hardness?
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: 304 is probably steel type
04:31 PM LeelooMinai: But no idea how this all relates to those 12.9, 8.8 etc. grades
04:31 PM gregcnc: stainless often don't meet any spec in that regard
04:31 PM Crom: din 934 is profile.. http://fullerfasteners.com/products/din-934-hex-nut/
04:32 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I figured that 934 is just shape standard
04:32 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: Well, that does not sound very useful:) So how engineers know when to use them?
04:34 PM roycroft: engineers don't - weekend mariners do
04:34 PM gregcnc: when fastener strength is the least concern
04:34 PM Crom: oftimes you say you want stainless, when you actually means stain resistant...
04:35 PM roycroft: i say "304" or "316" or whatever :)
04:36 PM roycroft: so i was looking at standard test bars for lathes (one can spend a lot of money on a pre-made one)
04:36 PM roycroft: it seems that for my size lathe 2"/50mm is the common size for doing tailstock alignment
04:36 PM roycroft: and i made mine out of 1"
04:38 PM andypugh: Here is a thread I have never seen: https://goo.gl/photos/j1Bx5KMeP5TdLzD8A
04:38 PM gregcnc: I think you're overthinking tailstock alignment. put in a long bar, turn near the chuck and near the tailstock center compare diameters adjust as needed for actual work
04:38 PM nubcake_ is now known as nubcake
04:39 PM andypugh: gregcnc: Or use your coaxial indicator in the chuck.
04:39 PM roycroft: i think i have it close enough for now
04:39 PM roycroft: i'm going to try the head butting method though, to check alignment near the headstock
04:39 PM gregcnc: I check during roughing. adjust tail if needed and figure out where i need to lean on it to get the taper out
04:40 PM gregcnc: if not using the tail, i adjust the feet as needed
04:40 PM roycroft: i'm still just a wee bit concerned about the oscillation when i was turning the test bar
04:41 PM roycroft: i've mostly convinced myself that it's not a big deal
04:41 PM LeelooMinai: "but then the ceiling partly collapsed"
04:41 PM XXCoder: wow! crazy. http://mentalfloss.com/article/501060/man-buys-two-metric-tons-lego-bricks-sorts-them-machine-learning
04:43 PM LeelooMinai: 2 tons of lego...
04:43 PM XXCoder: sure did you know that mythbuster needed lots of lego? they got it by only few guys that donated enough to make BIG lego ball for myth test
04:44 PM gregcnc: if the rod was truly straight and was dynamically balanced, then i would be concerned. a piece of rolled steel? not at all
04:44 PM gregcnc: who the hell can afford 2 tons of lego?
04:44 PM XXCoder: 10 eu a pound apparently
04:44 PM TurBoss: XXCoder: hello, the ff7 worldmap finished https://thingiverse-production-new.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/48/ab/5f/0e/88/d5217aec4c3db77daedf161861450be5_preview_featured.jpg
04:45 PM TurBoss: :)
04:45 PM XXCoder: that looks awesome!
04:45 PM XXCoder: what tool?
04:45 PM XXCoder: also what depth?
04:45 PM LeelooMinai: That is a map? I thought it was some laminate glue failure...
04:45 PM SpeedEvil: :)
04:45 PM TurBoss: 2.5mm
04:45 PM TurBoss: dept
04:46 PM TurBoss: and 1.5mm balnose
04:46 PM XXCoder: nice. I used 1/16 ball em and depth of 2mm
04:46 PM LeelooMinai: How long did it take?
04:46 PM TurBoss: 4 h
04:46 PM TurBoss: 0.10 passes
04:46 PM XXCoder: world map looked cool though I acciently renormalized so it was not to scale on heigh. ugh
04:46 PM TurBoss: 24,5cm x 17cm
04:46 PM TurBoss: oh
04:47 PM XXCoder: that is nice and big. so whats your plan with it now?
04:47 PM TurBoss: F1000
04:47 PM TurBoss: send i to a friend that lives at London
04:47 PM TurBoss: -i
04:48 PM TurBoss: +it
04:48 PM LeelooMinai: If I was milling for 4 hours, I would use some nicer material - like maybe some soft metal, like brass - would be much more valuable in the end.
04:49 PM TurBoss: I normally use Krion
04:49 PM LeelooMinai: And I would scale it maybe in z-direction
04:49 PM Crom: Look for Stainless 410, bit less galling than 30x grades.. 18-8 grade stainless is old school at crap...
04:49 PM LeelooMinai: Because now it looks like a shoe imprint or something:)
04:50 PM LeelooMinai: Even better idea - use layers with different colors (laminate), so the top of mountains look snowy, then brown, and "land" green or something.
04:50 PM TurBoss: its a wine box
04:50 PM LeelooMinai: And have the last layer dark blue, so you can mill a bit more to make oceans, rivers, etc.
04:51 PM TurBoss: and casinos with honk...
04:51 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: Trafolite
04:51 PM LeelooMinai: What is Krion?
04:52 PM TurBoss: an expensive materia
04:52 PM TurBoss: l
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: 410 hah, thats not even good enough for cutlery :)
04:52 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: yeah those sheets is buyable
04:52 PM TurBoss: http://www.krion.com
04:52 PM LeelooMinai: andypugh: Cannot one "invent" anything any more:(
04:52 PM XXCoder: sure still can, just hard!
04:53 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: I invent stuff all the time. The hard part is inventing it _first_ :-)
04:53 PM LeelooMinai: I remember once I had an idea about keyboard and then found that Apple has patent on it, and they don't even make anything based on it...
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: and filing first
04:54 PM LeelooMinai: I think they just file zillion of patents for anything, no mater what it is, just in case they can troll someone later:)
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: I'm going to try my new eccentric flare forming tool
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: maybe make a youtube
04:55 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: Looks funky (that Kryon place), but I guess it's not very economic, is it?
04:55 PM gregcnc: HP had a patent for inkjet tech for fuel injection. they sold it some time later to a UAV company
04:55 PM LeelooMinai: Or Krion
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: I need someone to do a really pompous voice over
04:56 PM TurBoss: it isnt
04:56 PM roycroft: get james earl jones
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: lol
04:56 PM XXCoder: I didnt link to krion :) was bit confused
04:56 PM LeelooMinai: CaptHindsight: Trump voice impersonator imo
04:56 PM roycroft: he said pompous
04:57 PM roycroft: not whiney little bitch
04:57 PM LeelooMinai: A, it was TurBoss. CaptHindsight, TurBoss, and XXCoder are all same dark blue color, so - you look all the same to me:)
04:57 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: You are brown, so you are ok.
04:58 PM XXCoder: ah no coloring this end besides yellow for ding
04:58 PM XXCoder: heh at old deaf school we had many color chairs
04:58 PM XXCoder: nobody sits on brown
04:58 PM roycroft: i am not brown
04:58 PM LeelooMinai: The what school?
04:59 PM roycroft: although, with the recent heat wave and sunny spell, i'm tanning nicely
04:59 PM XXCoder: deaf school. school for deaf kids
04:59 PM LeelooMinai: I first thought "a school for old deaf people"...
05:00 PM LeelooMinai: Thought it was a bit weird:)
05:00 PM XXCoder: ah that;d be at galliet, deaf college ;)
05:02 PM LeelooMinai: Heh, Massdrop is a fail - I once created an account there, but they keep ordering some snobish and useless gadgets.
05:03 PM LeelooMinai: I think I will just mark them as junk mail.
05:03 PM LeelooMinai: Good idea, bad results.
05:03 PM roycroft: i had never heard of massdrop
05:03 PM roycroft: i just checked it out
05:03 PM gregcnc: why hasn't it close up yet?
05:03 PM roycroft: and it immediately demanded a facebook or google login
05:03 PM roycroft: so i immediately closed the window
05:04 PM TurBoss: LeelooMinai: Krion -> http://i.imgur.com/aETAvMR.jpg
05:04 PM LeelooMinai: It's a place where people vote for something and then they order it from the producer in large-ish quantity for a discount.
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: ok, so far it has made a beautiful inside polished flare cone with a serrated lip
05:04 PM andypugh: Hmm, went out with work-mates to the pub for lunch, and liked the look of a butternut squash tart thing. Anf had that. I mush have liked the look of such a thing before, because almost exactly the same thing is the only food I have in the house. So lunch and dinner are identical today.
05:04 PM XXCoder: TurBoss: my neice'd love that
05:05 PM roycroft: a butternut squash tart sounds good
05:05 PM TurBoss: :)
05:05 PM LeelooMinai: But most items now seem like some audiphile-like overpriced gadgests.
05:05 PM roycroft: speaking of tarts
05:05 PM roycroft: do you like yorkshire curd tarts?
05:05 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: maybe try http://bobcatinabox.com/
05:05 PM andypugh: If you mean what I think you mean, then yes.
05:05 PM roycroft: i've never had one
05:06 PM roycroft: it's a tart with cheese curd, flavored with rose water
05:06 PM XXCoder: its completely random, computer decides what to buy though budget limited and you tell it what you like
05:06 PM roycroft: traditionally made during whitsuntide
05:07 PM roycroft: they were the technical challenge on a baking show i watched the other day, and looked good
05:07 PM LeelooMinai: XXCoder: I already have that with packages from China:)
05:07 PM roycroft: i thought i might give one a go
05:07 PM gregcnc: so a computer buys stuff for you and you wait for random stuff to appear in the mailbox?
05:07 PM LeelooMinai: At least few per week.
05:07 PM andypugh: Did they use nutmeg? They aren’t right without a hint of nutmeg.
05:07 PM XXCoder: lol ok
05:07 PM roycroft: yes
05:07 PM roycroft: and currants
05:08 PM roycroft: and a shortcrust pastry crust
05:08 PM TurBoss: does any one knows anything about kcf aka kurt?
05:08 PM andypugh: Hmm, not sure about currants.
05:08 PM TurBoss: I think that he is on vacation
05:09 PM * roycroft is not sure if he should use white rosewater or red rosewater
05:09 PM TurBoss: I only know about vodka
05:09 PM TurBoss: white and red
05:09 PM XXCoder: I use mixture of volka and water at all time
05:10 PM XXCoder: 100% water 0% volka
05:10 PM roycroft: white rosewater would seem appropriate for a "yorkshire custard tart", i should think
05:11 PM andypugh: :-)
05:11 PM * roycroft does not wish to revive platagenent inner squabbling
05:12 PM roycroft: that was settled quite a long time ago
05:18 PM pfred1: I know less about python than I know about brain surgery, and all I know about brain surgery is it goes on inside a skull
05:19 PM LeelooMinai: Python is a programming language that is scripting-like, that is pretty "loose" about types.
05:19 PM LeelooMinai: Rather popular nowadays.
05:20 PM pfred1: yeah I think i have a broken numpy
05:20 PM pfred1: flatcam used to run but now it doesn't anymore
05:21 PM LeelooMinai: All python packages sound like names of the dwarves from Snow White:)
05:21 PM pfred1: all it does is throw this error AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'MAY_SHARE_BOUNDS'
05:22 PM pfred1: Google has been less than illuminating about what that means too
05:22 PM LeelooMinai: Probably some dependency/version problem.
05:22 PM LeelooMinai: Or a bug.
05:22 PM pfred1: one guy said he fixed his problem by updating with pip
05:23 PM pfred1: I think I've used pip in the past but I can't even remember how I did it
05:23 PM pfred1: I mean it sounds vaguely familiar
05:24 PM pfred1: what ticks me off is this package used to work
05:25 PM pfred1: hmm hmm the plot thickens I have two numpys installed
05:26 PM pfred1: I have /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/numpy and /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy
05:27 PM pfred1: I think I may be seeing a possible issue here
05:27 PM pfred1: right now I'm using the /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy/core/numeric.py
05:29 PM roycroft: i haven't used pip since my cp/m days
05:30 PM roycroft: happy holiday weekend, all!
05:30 PM * roycroft takes off for the long weekend
05:31 PM pfred1: that just means the place gets flooded with tourists here
05:31 PM pfred1: so not a holiday
05:32 PM pfred1: I forgot to go enjoy the deer in the headlights day which was yesterday
05:32 PM pfred1: you go down the highway and watch all the locals looking like deer in the headlights before the tourists get here
05:33 PM pfred1: its pretty funny
05:34 PM pfred1: by the end of the weekend the population will go up 10X
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: that lathe in Cary is in Johnsburg
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: Clausing 13" X 40"
05:35 PM gregcnc: 6900 series?
05:36 PM XXCoder: pfred1: yeah odd how updates break program
05:36 PM XXCoder: I cant run camotics now
05:36 PM pfred1: I think this was something I did to get camotics running
05:36 PM pfred1: but whatever I did now flatcam won't run
05:37 PM XXCoder: doh
05:37 PM pfred1: yeah tell me about it
05:37 PM XXCoder: whats you do for camotics and what error did it have?
05:37 PM LeelooMinai: I wonder who thought it's a good name for a program:p
05:37 PM pfred1: that's the thi9ng I did it so long ago I can't remember
05:38 PM XXCoder: camotics: symbol lookup error: camotics: undefined symbol: _ZN7QString13toUtf8_helperERKS
05:38 PM XXCoder: this?
05:39 PM pfred1: I don't know much about python but I'
05:39 PM pfred1: I don't know much about python but I'm really starting to hate the stuff
05:40 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: But hate leads to suffering, don't you know?
05:42 PM pfred1: XXCoder is camotics even python?
05:42 PM XXCoder: dunno
05:42 PM pfred1: I just start it with a regular command like no python preface
05:43 PM pfred1: it is a binary executable here
05:43 PM pfred1: file /home/pfred1/Build/CAMotics/CAMotics/build/camotics-deb/usr/bin/camotics
05:43 PM pfred1: /home/pfred1/Build/CAMotics/CAMotics/build/camotics-deb/usr/bin/camotics: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x5e290a5b9592eb660e706303ee2777bdcb98a379, stripped
05:43 PM pfred1: its an ELF
05:44 PM pfred1: Executable Linker Format
05:46 PM pfred1: it is a QT program
05:46 PM pfred1: libQtCore.so.4
05:47 PM pfred1: ldd /home/pfred1/Build/CAMotics/CAMotics/build/camotics-deb/usr/bin/camotics
05:47 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe you have QT version mismatch
05:47 PM pfred1: it looked like a font library issue
05:47 PM pfred1: there are font libs linked in the program
05:48 PM pfred1: libfreetype.so.6
05:49 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:49 PM XXCoder: but unsure how fix
05:49 PM pfred1: it has boost and a bunch of GL junk
05:49 PM pfred1: you can try running gdb on it
05:50 PM XXCoder: how?
05:50 PM pfred1: well what's ldd say about your binary?
05:50 PM pfred1: gdb is kind of a bitch to get to work with GUI programs
05:50 PM pfred1: it's been years since I've tried
05:51 PM XXCoder: camotics: /usr/bin/camotics /usr/bin/X11/camotics /usr/share/camotics
05:51 PM XXCoder: 3 of em weird ok lets pick usr bin one
05:51 PM pfred1: well try /usr/bin/camotics
05:51 PM XXCoder: ok long list whats I look for
05:51 PM pfred1: or file them others may be links
05:51 PM pfred1: red
05:51 PM pfred1: red means broken deps
05:51 PM XXCoder: none are
05:52 PM pfred1: there's the other way to search library files for symbols
05:52 PM pfred1: nm ?
05:52 PM pfred1: again not something I do everyday
05:53 PM XXCoder: "no symbols"
05:53 PM pfred1: yeah you use that on the library in question
05:53 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: On windows I used a nice GUI program I remember, let me see what it is called.
05:53 PM pfred1: ddd ?
05:53 PM pfred1: ddd is the gui debugger
05:54 PM pfred1: data display debugger
05:54 PM LeelooMinai: This one: https://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/900.php
05:55 PM LeelooMinai: But I was cross-compiling with gcc for stm32, so not sure if you can run it on Linux too, but maybe.
05:56 PM LeelooMinai: In some wine or what they use there.
05:56 PM LeelooMinai: The best thing there is that Filter field - it works in real time as you type anything.
05:57 PM pfred1: this stuff is all beyond my pay grade
06:03 PM pfred1: XXCoder your other option is to build a new camotics and cross yoru fingers that a fresh build Just Works™
06:03 PM XXCoder: pfred1: qtconfig not found weird
06:04 PM pfred1: yeah that's a problem
06:04 PM XXCoder: qtconig-4t works
06:04 PM XXCoder: er qt4
06:04 PM LeelooMinai: So usual step #2 on linux - spend next half a day editing files and trying to make it work:)
06:04 PM pfred1: my QT is hashed on this system because i use Trinity as my DE
06:05 PM pfred1: so I've had qtconfig config issues with stuff
06:05 PM XXCoder: ok
06:06 PM pfred1: type which qtconfig
06:06 PM XXCoder: a sec
06:07 PM pfred1: heck I don't have one
06:08 PM pfred1: the only thing I do have is /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/PyQt4/pyqtconfig.py
06:08 PM pfred1: back to python!
06:08 PM pfred1: there's a bunch one for each version of python i have installed
06:08 PM XXCoder: http://dpaste.com/1KHVHK2
06:08 PM XXCoder: check it out
06:09 PM XXCoder: though none of those matches error from camotics. all heek weird
06:09 PM XXCoder: whereis result is qtconfig: /usr/bin/qtconfig /usr/bin/X11/qtconfig
06:10 PM pfred1: yeah there seems to be a pattern
06:10 PM XXCoder: which points to first one
06:10 PM pfred1: I never got heeks to work
06:10 PM pfred1: it looks like heeks might have hooped your system too
06:11 PM XXCoder: ok lets try remove it
06:11 PM XXCoder: its sucky anyway
06:11 PM pfred1: someone told me that heeks got rolled into freecad
06:12 PM XXCoder: that same ldd now has no error
06:12 PM XXCoder: camotics still dont run but good to get rid anyway
06:12 PM pfred1: does camotics work?
06:12 PM pfred1: hmmm
06:13 PM pfred1: run ldconfig -v as root
06:13 PM pfred1: that rebuilds your library map
06:13 PM XXCoder: how should i filter it? very long spam lol
06:13 PM pfred1: nah just try camotics again
06:14 PM XXCoder: same error
06:14 PM pfred1: boo!@
06:14 PM XXCoder: is there a way to do backwards look from symbol to what library
06:14 PM pfred1: everytime you change shared libs you need to run ldconfig
06:14 PM pfred1: it maps the library or something
06:15 PM pfred1: it makes the changes take effect
06:15 PM Tom_L: it's like a windows reboot :D
06:15 PM pfred1: I guess?
06:15 PM pfred1: it is like a shared library reset
06:16 PM XXCoder: scanelf -l -s
06:16 PM pfred1: that's a new one on me
06:17 PM pfred1: I don't have it here
06:17 PM XXCoder: ET_EXEC _ZN7QString13toUtf8_helperERKS_ /opt/Qt5.8.0/MaintenanceTool
06:17 PM XXCoder: I had to install pax-util
06:17 PM XXCoder: I had to install pax-utils
06:18 PM pfred1: seems pretty narrow in scope
06:18 PM XXCoder: its... qt register thing
06:18 PM XXCoder: wtf
06:19 PM pfred1: if it were me I'd just try to build a new camotics
06:19 PM XXCoder: on exit it says uninstaller program...
06:20 PM pfred1: though there does seem to be something else out of whack on your system, maybe
06:20 PM pfred1: it might just be camotics
06:20 PM XXCoder: maybe on both dunno
06:21 PM pfred1: building camotics may yield new clues as to what is going on
06:21 PM XXCoder: maybe but need to go
06:21 PM pfred1: k
06:21 PM XXCoder: thanks much
06:21 PM XXCoder: made little progress :)
06:21 PM pfred1: was interesting for sure
06:21 PM XXCoder: yeah that sybol lookup is awesome
06:21 PM pfred1: try installing freecad
06:22 PM pfred1: see if heeks is in there now
06:22 PM XXCoder: its already installed lol
06:22 PM pfred1: OK
06:22 PM XXCoder: never had heeks though
06:22 PM XXCoder: looking at 0.17
06:22 PM pfred1: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?t=6883
06:22 PM XXCoder: they changed look agaibn
06:23 PM pfred1: As the plans are to port heekscnc as a tool path generator for FreeCAD, Can we have a discussion on current heekscnc problems, and if / how they can be resolved.
06:23 PM XXCoder: or maybe its due to me changing qt setting
06:23 PM pfred1: looks like they started working on it in 2014
06:24 PM XXCoder: I hate how freecad does NOT save toolbars positons :(
06:24 PM pfred1: freecad is something else i can't build on this system because of unmet deps
06:24 PM pfred1: so I haven't seen the latest version
06:24 PM XXCoder: someone said it would take too much memory. I don't get it as it is already movable, it would take same amount of memory
06:25 PM XXCoder: pfred1: enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBDZtt0vWD8
06:25 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Tried Fusion 360 yet?
06:25 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai no
06:26 PM pfred1: the Moon used to orbit at 6,000 miles
06:26 PM XXCoder: in days when earth day length is 18 hours or so lol
06:26 PM pfred1: I'm going to see the eclipse on august 21st
06:27 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: It's free if you don't make more than $100k per year with it. Much nicer - it has CAD/CAM and other tools in one environment.
06:27 PM pfred1: I'm going to ses it in santee
06:27 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai yeah but it doesn't run in Linux
06:28 PM pfred1: here's a neat vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8I25H3bnNw
06:29 PM XXCoder: pfred1: also fun one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY2jv4GWUhQ
06:30 PM pfred1: our disco ball Moon
06:31 PM pfred1: we got so cheated not having a disco ball Moon
06:31 PM XXCoder: if we had disco ball moon at normnal distance we wouldnt be able to see it at all most times
06:31 PM XXCoder: few flashes of earth light refection and sun refection thats it
06:32 PM XXCoder: if it was that close, roache limit would break it
06:32 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: Because Linux is not a best OS for GUI-inensive applications - probably not worth for them to support it. They support Mac/Windows.
06:33 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai why is Linux not the best OS for GUI-inensive applications?
06:33 PM pfred1: GUI-intensive even
06:34 PM TurBoss: Blender3d is a good example of success
06:34 PM malcom2073: nvidia driver support is a nightmare
06:35 PM pfred1: malcom2073 how do you figure?
06:35 PM pfred1: nvidia is exactly the same on Linux as Windows
06:35 PM pfred1: in fact Linux got crippled to reach parity with Windows
06:36 PM malcom2073: pfred1: Try it on a modern laptop, optimus/bumblebee is a huge hassle, and keeping kernel modules and driver versions is a chore in a professional environment
06:36 PM malcom2073: prime* rather
06:36 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: It's just how it is - for different reasons I guess. Too many competing ideas, too many environments, and the result is low numbers of good GUI-based software in comparison to Windows. Seriously, for CAD/CAM work if you insist on Linux, you will suffer and kill your productivity, because you do not think of OS as something that is supposed to let you run applications, as you should imo.
06:36 PM pfred1: ah I am talking about geforce
06:36 PM malcom2073: As am I
06:39 PM malcom2073: pfred1: nvidia was awesome before laptops with intel integrated GPU's. I use it on my old core2duo with a nvidia 260m, but linux hasn't gotten their stuff together yet for the new hardware. Is that the fault of nvidia, or of kernel or distro devs? I don't know, but it's not smooth yet.
06:40 PM pfred1: Linux kernel devs have nothing to do with Nvidia's binary accelerated driver Nvidia writes that
06:41 PM pfred1: Nvidia seems to be pushing more into AI lately
06:41 PM malcom2073: pfred1: They have a lot to do with support of the nvidia kernel module that is companion to the drive though
06:41 PM XXCoder: AI is all rage. laters
06:42 PM malcom2073: Heh AI does seem to be lately, though I don't see how that's relevant to video card drivers
06:42 PM pfred1: being closed source the kernel dev can't so anything with Nvidia's drivers
06:42 PM pfred1: companies only have finite resources
06:42 PM pfred1: more effort in one place means less in another
06:43 PM pfred1: Nvidia is going to go where the money is
06:43 PM pfred1: that is not with PCs anymore
06:46 PM pfred1: I follow Nvidia on G+ and they seem more excited about AI than video adapters lately
06:48 PM pfred1: by a ratio that I'd say is maybe 10:1 ?
06:48 PM pfred1: as in they barely care about video today
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: I had to check what this is about and now reading about tensorflows and other weird things - if this ends up as another monumental Yak Shaving, I will hold you responsible:p
06:57 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai OK
06:57 PM LeelooMinai: And yes, it sounds much more interesting that video.
06:57 PM LeelooMinai: than*
06:57 PM TurBoss: how i can open a load a program from gcode "o"?
06:58 PM TurBoss: this remembers me this -> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
06:58 PM TurBoss: checking
06:58 PM TurBoss: o call
06:58 PM TurBoss: ok
06:59 PM TurBoss: o call -> Call named file
06:59 PM TurBoss: but doc does not show any example
07:02 PM TurBoss: o<myfile> call
07:02 PM TurBoss: okay!
07:03 PM TurBoss: but the called file must be a sub
08:08 PM Crom: ok gore calc updated https://pastebin.com/0upZ2SwE
08:12 PM roycroft: does that calculate the size of the lock box?
08:14 PM Crom: just gores from fabric for full circle skirts/peplums..
08:15 PM pfred1: pastebin is an Ad-block whiner site
08:15 PM pfred1: is there an ad blocker that websites can't detect?
08:16 PM Crom: if you cut twice asmany gores you can do a flamingo skirt
08:16 PM pfred1: because I'm sick and tired of these sites crying
08:19 PM Crom: http://picpaste.com/1495846004612174062077-IucVWs0D.jpg
08:19 PM Crom: My new taller z
08:20 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: Some metal-eating-mouse nom-nomed the top of it:)
08:21 PM pfred1: Crom you took the fan off your spindle?
08:21 PM Crom: That's a dead spindle...
08:21 PM pfred1: ah
08:22 PM Crom: been chucking a 3/8" drill on it to spin it
08:22 PM pfred1: yeah i have the black air cooled one I wonder how long it will last?
08:23 PM Crom: this one lasted quite awhile...
08:23 PM Crom: I think a bad solder joint in the speed control actually did it in
08:23 PM pfred1: the chrome ones are 300W right?
08:23 PM Crom: That's a 400w
08:23 PM pfred1: ah
08:24 PM Crom: looks the same as a300
08:24 PM pfred1: they're weird
08:24 PM Crom: bit taller though
08:24 PM pfred1: you ever try to measure the voltage of the PSU?
08:24 PM pfred1: yeah now that you mention it that one does look a bit longer
08:24 PM Crom: 57v no load I think
08:25 PM pfred1: I put a meter on mine I'll just say it's weird
08:25 PM pfred1: I guess it is DC?
08:25 PM pfred1: but it is not filtered DC really
08:26 PM pfred1: I also measured the current draw too
08:26 PM pfred1: my "500W" spindle is more like a 100W one by my readings
08:27 PM pfred1: I loaded it down pretty hard trying to get it to draw more current too
08:28 PM pfred1: it spins and it cuts though
08:32 PM pfred1: I routed this board with it http://i.imgur.com/YyqiE9R.jpg
08:37 PM pfred1: now I'm making a speed controller for my mill's X axis power drive
08:37 PM pfred1: no CNC
08:43 PM Crom: I'm still trying to find the old spindle I had for this 3040...
08:44 PM Crom: I only have 19,000 cufeet to look through
08:46 PM Crom: hmm 500cu ft a day... that's only 38 days...
08:47 PM pfred1: what are you looking for?
08:48 PM Crom: 300w spindle...
08:49 PM Crom: effen Veterans Administration is dicking my around again...
08:50 PM Crom: s/my/me/
08:52 PM pfred1: that's their job
08:54 PM Crom: hmmm 8-16 to 5-17 9 * 220 + 5 * 400 == a bunch of money... not to mention the 9 years at $1200+ a month...
08:55 PM Crom: and when the pay me... they'll pay in today dollars not what those past dollars are worth now...
08:56 PM Crom: IE they're pay me at the monthly rate back then, not the monthly rate roday.. using todays dollars... they're saving money..
09:01 PM pfred1: maybe
09:03 PM Crom: if milk was $2.19 a gallon back then and a gallon of milk today is $2.69 a gallon... I've lost 22% of my money...
09:04 PM Tom_L: 1.88
09:07 PM pfred1: Crom right now it sounds like you've lost 100% of your money
09:07 PM pfred1: so recovering 82% of it would be great
09:08 PM Crom: I've lost more like 120% of my money... Cuz I could have socked that money in the bank and made money on it... and they are not going to pay interest on it, though they charge me interest on money that I owe them.
09:09 PM pfred1: banks haven't paid interest in years now
09:13 PM roycroft: do any of you folks use those jansj led lamps from ikea on your machines?
09:13 PM roycroft: they're cheap and seem to be very popular
09:14 PM Tom_L: i have 2
09:14 PM roycroft: but at 88 lumens i'm not sure i'd be happy with the brightness
09:14 PM roycroft: if it's focused, though, it could be ok
09:14 PM Tom_L: anddy uses em
09:14 PM Tom_L: -d
09:14 PM LeelooMinai: 88 lumens sounds close to useless to me...
09:14 PM roycroft: are you happy with the amount of light they put out?
09:15 PM Tom_L: one on my drill press i like
09:15 PM Tom_L: other one in a box still
09:15 PM roycroft: i need something for my lathe
09:15 PM roycroft: and i could use something better for my mill/drill
09:15 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: I put a led bulb on my drill press, but normal one, 800 lumens
09:15 PM roycroft: at $10 each + a little remodeling they seem to be a very cost effective option
09:15 PM Tom_L: my previous one was none
09:15 PM Crom: I have 8 of those lights... I tend to use them in pairs
09:16 PM roycroft: the problem is that the nearest ikea store is a couple hours from here
09:16 PM roycroft: i've never been there, actually
09:16 PM Crom: my drill press has a E26 base LED flood on it..
09:16 PM roycroft: i don't mind popping for one at $10 to see what i think
09:17 PM roycroft: but i do mind a 4 hour round trip drive to do so if it's not going to work out
09:17 PM gregcnc: i have a couple of those. on the lathe i found one adequate, on the mill on was now enough one on each side would be OK
09:17 PM roycroft: on a lathe, the light can be right above the tool
09:17 PM Crom: roycroft: order the 12v white smd 5050 LED tape from ebay first...
09:17 PM roycroft: a large area does not ned to be illuminated
09:18 PM gregcnc: and you can angle it to see inside for internal work
09:18 PM Crom: and get a 60mm white ring as well
09:18 PM Crom: stick a bit of clear hose over it and mount it under the spindle
09:19 PM roycroft: the lathe is the primary concern right now
09:20 PM roycroft: a friend recommended these, with mounts that i would make:
09:20 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IDSIBLG/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IOGYBJ88WANX&colid=166KMQJN9SEFK
09:20 PM Crom: take a 1x4 cover it in the LED strip... mount it over the lathe
09:20 PM roycroft: i'm afraid that just one of those might blind me, though, if mounted on a machine
09:21 PM pfred1: prices really are all over the map with LEDs
09:22 PM roycroft: yes
09:22 PM pfred1: you can always make an LED dimmer
09:22 PM Crom: did you watch the Keith Fenner video where he mounted a LED car spot light of his little lathe?
09:22 PM gregcnc: http://www.dieselrc.com/x/temp/ikealight2.jpg
09:22 PM LeelooMinai: I kind of did the same. Bought two led lights they use on cars - 12V. They seem cheap, but well made and have decent lumen ratings. For 12V I just took old PC power supply - I will use it for other gadgets for the CNC too, like Raspberry Pis for the camera, etc.
09:22 PM pfred1: just under drive it
09:23 PM pfred1: it is the brighter that can be an issue with LEDs
09:23 PM Crom: for under spindles http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x60MM-15leds-Bright-1210-3528-Car-Angel-Eyes-Halo-Ring-Light-Headlight-White-/252412068766
09:23 PM pfred1: though there is a way to make them a lot brighter by pulsing them
09:23 PM gregcnc: i have to try a ring for the mill
09:24 PM gregcnc: diffuse light is more useful than a bright single source, you get a lot fo glare
09:24 PM roycroft: pulsing would drive me nuts
09:25 PM pfred1: roycroft yeah it isn't good for area lighting
09:25 PM gregcnc: like tail lights on cars?
09:25 PM pfred1: it is just a weird quirk with how LEDs handle current
09:25 PM Crom: warm white strip + PS 5a in non water proof IP20 $12.08 free shipping 15'4" http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-5050-Led-Strip-Flexible-Lights-5M-300leds-Tape-Lamp-For-Home-Garden-KTV-Xmas-/391701824981
09:25 PM roycroft: i have an old light that i used on the lathe when i took machining classes
09:25 PM roycroft: it doesn't put out a lot of light
09:25 PM LeelooMinai: You can always put a diffuser in front - if you have some old broken LED TV or monitor, you can find diffuser sheets inside.
09:26 PM roycroft: but it has a magnetic base, and flexible shaft for the led mount
09:26 PM roycroft: it worked ok, but not great
09:26 PM pfred1: yeah I took a spent monitor apart there is a bunch of junk with the screen
09:26 PM roycroft: i'd mount it with the led about 1cm away from the tooling
09:26 PM roycroft: i'd like something a little brighter
09:27 PM roycroft: but again, i don't need to have bright illumination on the whole lathe bed
09:27 PM roycroft: i have overhead lighting that's decent
09:27 PM LeelooMinai: In fact, you can often use the whole backlight assembly as a lamp of sorts.
09:27 PM roycroft: i just want a spotlight right on the tool
09:27 PM roycroft: and something with a magnetic base that can mount on the carriage would be best
09:27 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: For spotlight those car lights are pretty good, imo.
09:27 PM Crom: The strip of LED's.. you could cover a 4' 1x8" pretty well... or use an old shop light with a diffuser... rip the guts out and LEDfy it
09:28 PM LeelooMinai: Good value that is - you only need to MacGyver 12V source.
09:28 PM roycroft: i've used the strip leds for several projects
09:28 PM roycroft: they are great
09:28 PM roycroft: but not suitable for focusing light on the tooling on a lathe
09:28 PM roycroft: a spotlight mounted on the carriage is ideal for that
09:29 PM LeelooMinai: You could even attach them to Chinese indicator holders and have nice magnetic lamp with articulation:)
09:30 PM roycroft: i'm thinking of making a bracket for an articulating indicagtor holder that would hold one of my high intensity flashlights
09:30 PM roycroft: but for $10, that ikea thing is appealing :)
09:30 PM gregcnc: I have 6000 lumens of t8 right over the lathe it's hardly enough anymore
09:30 PM Tom_L: their shipping will double the cost nearly
09:30 PM roycroft: 6000 lumens 2cm above the tooling would be more than enough, i'm sure :)
09:31 PM roycroft: that's why i was talking about going to the ikea store, tom_l
09:31 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Er, I don't get that 80 lumens - that sounds bad. I mean my flashlight has probably 6x more...
09:31 PM gregcnc: when we would go to Ikea you'd see tags from all the surrounding states in the lot
09:31 PM roycroft: that ikea thing really is very popular
09:33 PM gregcnc: I killed the light on the lathe and I miss it now
09:33 PM Crom: build your own http://www.mylampparts.com/Departments/FLEXIBLE-ARMS.aspx
09:33 PM LeelooMinai: For $20 you can get 10000 lumens flashlight on Ali:)
09:34 PM gregcnc: yeah i need to replace my flashlights and batteries
09:35 PM pfred1: this is kind of cute https://www.banggood.com/5W-Magnetic-LED-Work-Light-Car-Repair-Lamp-Camping-Reading-Lighting-White-p-1098972.html?rmmds=search
09:36 PM roycroft: i try to order things from us vendors as much as possible
09:36 PM roycroft: us made when i can afford it
09:37 PM roycroft: i like keeping my money as local as possible
09:37 PM gregcnc: https://frelux.com/
09:37 PM LeelooMinai: roycroft: Futile at this point:)
09:37 PM * roycroft is not a globalist, but is also not militant about it - he is pragmatic about it
09:37 PM gregcnc: it's not
09:37 PM roycroft: only if you believe it is
09:37 PM gregcnc: i check where everything is made
09:37 PM roycroft: and i do not hold that belief
09:38 PM pfred1: I like the Chinese
09:38 PM Crom: mod a desk lamp... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Satco-57-061-Gooseneck-Desk-Lamp-with-13-watt-GU24-2700K-Mini-S-Free-Shipping-/222427616832
09:38 PM roycroft: i do as well
09:38 PM roycroft: which is not to say i refuse to buy things made overseas
09:38 PM roycroft: but i make informed choices when i buy things
09:38 PM LeelooMinai: You don't have to mod it really - just put a LED bulb inside.
09:38 PM gregcnc: too big
09:38 PM gregcnc: LEd doesn't need a reflector
09:39 PM roycroft: i have a lamp very similar to that satco, but with a mag base, that i use on my mill/drill
09:39 PM LeelooMinai: If it's made to replace a normal bulb, it will work with reflector.
09:40 PM Crom: https://www.ebay.com/p/?iid=332205116130&&&dispItem=1&chn=ps
09:40 PM gregcnc: uhoh i like that
09:40 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: 2W - that will be not very bright.
09:41 PM LeelooMinai: I would not even buy anything without lumen specs.
09:41 PM LeelooMinai: Because it may have some cheap and nasty leds that will kill your eyes with blue-tint.
09:42 PM LeelooMinai: Also, with cheap driver you may get flicker, etc.
09:42 PM Crom: I have old goose necks on my sewing machines... I just need to put new tops on them...
09:42 PM Crom: https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+sewing+machine+light&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipwIT1_o7UAhUh74MKHQgwD-IQ_AUICigB&biw=1680&bih=856
09:43 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai cheap driver you say, like a capacitive dropper? http://i.imgur.com/nv30lkc.jpg
09:44 PM pfred1: that's how I make indicator lamps now i just replace one of the LEDs with a regular diode
09:45 PM LeelooMinai: Well, you cannot really hope for anything nice in those cheap lamps. That's why I prefer to have a nice PSU for anything that needs 12V and distribute it to lights like those for cars.
09:46 PM pfred1: neon bulbs are too expensive anymore
09:46 PM roycroft: they are
09:46 PM roycroft: i have some neon lamps, and i love them as indicators
09:47 PM roycroft: but i use leds for almost everything these days
09:47 PM pfred1: meh a crappy old LED with a cap dropper is pretty good the flicker adds to it
09:47 PM roycroft: leds also use a tiny fraction of the power that a neon lamp requires
09:47 PM roycroft: but they just don't look the same, and never will
09:47 PM pfred1: yeah i know
09:47 PM roycroft: aesthetics are not meaningless
09:47 PM gregcnc: where were neon used?
09:47 PM pfred1: neon bulbs are like a buck a pop today
09:48 PM roycroft: for decades they were standard indicators
09:48 PM pfred1: like everywhere in old illuminated wall switches
09:48 PM LeelooMinai: You can get them in different Kelvin ratings - they can have warm light, more like incandescent bulbs too.
09:48 PM gregcnc: ah hah
09:48 PM pfred1: the indicator in power strips
09:49 PM pfred1: I got piles of suitable LEDs and caps lying around here
09:50 PM roycroft: it would be nice to be able to mount a light directly to the cross slide
09:50 PM roycroft: and avoid the magnetic mount
09:50 PM LeelooMinai: pfred1: If you don't mind 60Hz flicker:)
09:50 PM roycroft: mag mounts attract swarf and it's really hard to clean the swarf off of them
09:50 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai on an indicator lamp I like it to flicker
09:51 PM pfred1: to me it is indicating even better then
09:51 PM Crom: http://picpaste.com/1495851629108174062077-3ZM1Xchz.jpg
09:52 PM pfred1: roycroft put a bag on it
09:53 PM pfred1: pull magnet out of bag and swarf falls away
09:53 PM LeelooMinai: Or make a hole in some plastic cup or whatever.
09:53 PM LeelooMinai: So the base is shielded.
09:53 PM gregcnc: i guess it's time to watch cartoons
09:53 PM pfred1: but I know what you mean about swarf on magnets
09:53 PM gregcnc: screw the mag and bolt it down
09:54 PM LeelooMinai: Weld it:)
09:54 PM gregcnc: that's a little drastic
09:54 PM pfred1: I welded today
09:54 PM gregcnc: for a light
09:54 PM Crom: http://picpaste.com/1495851807380174062077-huL7Xz5n.jpg
09:54 PM pfred1: for a table
09:55 PM Crom: First is my ikea zip tied to the original light gooseneck and the second is my 2 light on my serger (which isn't running right now)
09:57 PM roycroft: i usually wrap the mag base lights in cling wrap
09:57 PM roycroft: but it would be better to just not have the problem at all
09:57 PM LeelooMinai: Well, the plus is you can move it around if needed.
09:58 PM pfred1: roycroft don't machine ferrous metals then
09:58 PM pfred1: problem solved!
09:58 PM gregcnc: isn't that why it's flexible?
09:58 PM roycroft: i'm trying to sort this out right now because i'm already weary of dragging an extension cord across the floor to plug in the lathe
09:58 PM LeelooMinai: Or don't machine at all:)
09:58 PM roycroft: i want to install an overhead receptacle for it
09:58 PM Crom: Old dead hard drive magnets are great on sewing machine's hold feet, pins, sockets, seam rippers...
09:58 PM roycroft: and i need to know how to wire it
09:58 PM gregcnc: yes job it out
09:58 PM pfred1: LeelooMinai that's not really a valid option
09:58 PM roycroft: easiest and preferred it to just extend the 250vac single phase circuit that i use for my woodworking tools
09:59 PM roycroft: but if i'm going to get an ac-powered lamp i'll probably need split phase, not single phase
09:59 PM pfred1: that's what I did to run my CNC spindle PSU
09:59 PM pfred1: they wanted $6 more for 120V
09:59 PM gregcnc: I think many will handle 240V
09:59 PM roycroft: which would require both an additional circuit and an extra wire, so more $$
09:59 PM pfred1: I tapped out of my table saw
10:00 PM pfred1: 240V
10:00 PM pfred1: halfway thrugh I was ike I should have just paid the $6
10:00 PM roycroft: i can't get 125vac out of my woodworking tools circuit
10:00 PM roycroft: only 250vac
10:00 PM Crom: no neutral on your machine?
10:01 PM roycroft: no
10:01 PM roycroft: no need for it
10:01 PM pfred1: there's some new code
10:01 PM roycroft: i'm running the motors at 250vac
10:01 PM Crom: how hard would it be to run a neutral?
10:01 PM roycroft: extra wire, extra circuit
10:01 PM pfred1: they want 240V circuits to have neutral and ground
10:01 PM roycroft: not hard
10:01 PM roycroft: but an expense
10:01 PM roycroft: i could always get a transformer and tap 125vac off of it
10:02 PM roycroft: for a lamp it could be a very small transformer
10:02 PM Crom: that's probably cheaper...
10:02 PM roycroft: cheaper than a new circuit and a 4 wire cable, yes
10:02 PM pfred1: I don't like xformers going all the time
10:03 PM roycroft: or i could make a flashlight holder for the lathe
10:03 PM roycroft: and not have to worry about power at all for the light
10:03 PM Crom: mount a transformer in the chassis electric cabinet and have a dupllex outlet somewhere on the back side of the machine to plug into?
10:04 PM Crom: I'd never have a shop without neutral... I like my lights...
10:04 PM roycroft: i'm talking about one circuit
10:04 PM roycroft: not the entire shop
10:04 PM Crom: Then again, I do all my own wiring..
10:04 PM roycroft: so do i
10:04 PM roycroft: but that doesn't mean i overwire
10:05 PM roycroft: my welding shop, for example, is not an "official" building
10:05 PM roycroft: and i do not have any permanent power there
10:05 PM roycroft: when i weld, i have a 100' 6ga extension cord that i use
10:05 PM roycroft: the cost difference between a 3 wire 6ga cord and a 4 wire 6ga cord is pretty significant
10:05 PM roycroft: like $200
10:06 PM roycroft: so it's 3 wire
10:06 PM roycroft: the welding gear is all 250vac
10:06 PM roycroft: so i have zero need for split phase on that stuff
10:06 PM Crom: ahhh.....
10:06 PM Crom: still nice to have 120v for lights...
10:06 PM roycroft: i pull a 125vac extension cord out there for lights
10:06 PM roycroft: it's actually suspended overhead
10:07 PM roycroft: but i plug it in to a receptacle in my garage shop every time i use the welding shop
10:07 PM Crom: Task lighting.. not general lighting
10:08 PM roycroft: 90+% of the time when i'm in my welding shop i'm forming, cutting, grinding, painting stuff
10:08 PM roycroft: all of which only require 125vac
10:08 PM roycroft: i only pull out the big extension cord when i actually need to weld something
10:08 PM roycroft: it's very heavy, btw
10:09 PM roycroft: i store it rolled up on a metal garden hose reel cart that is on wheels
10:11 PM Crom: I'd think so... My rear patio, I tapped into my A/C circuit (which doesn't work, the A/C not the circuit) and I have 4 outlets on the two legs... I haven't had to wire a 240 out there yet...
10:12 PM roycroft: my brew system is split phase, because i need to peel off 125vac for several things
10:12 PM roycroft: and one of the heating coils is 250vac
10:12 PM roycroft: so i have a big, fat 4-conductor 6ga cable for that
10:13 PM roycroft: i can't really tap into that circuit for the lathe though, because it's 50a
10:13 PM roycroft: and it would be really expensive to bring 50a to the lathe, where 20a will suffice
10:14 PM Crom: no sub panel to a sub panel?
10:15 PM roycroft: that costs money too
10:15 PM roycroft: extending the single phase circuit is the cheapest way to go
10:20 PM Crom: I'm a pack rat... I have extra wire, thhn solid, stranded, extra boxes, I have 2ea 4 circuit NEMA 3R panels stashed, extra romex, 200' of thhn 6ga in black, 100' in white and green (yep made the boss buy 6ga ground... getting low on 8ga bonding wire though... Daughter used 30 ' for a cosplay costume...
10:21 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: She was a lampshade? :)
10:22 PM roycroft: i have a lot of stuff too
10:22 PM Crom: arm bracers, leg bracers, teria
10:23 PM roycroft: but unless i'm really broke, if using existing materials would result in a substantial overbuild, i'll usually get what is appropriate
10:26 PM Crom: I ended up with the 6ga, cuz... bossy.. measured wrong... needed 130' not 100, another time, he got 6ga, when it called for 2ga -- 103' with 70amps hanging off the end...
10:27 PM Crom: That darn inspector, measured long runs...
10:55 PM Crom: Hmmm I hate resetting sleeves... at least they nee to be 5" shorter so I have material to play with
11:00 PM Crom: It's getting to a point.. we buy patterns... never take them out.. just look on the layout sheet/instruction sheet, and make our own...
11:05 PM Crom: more and more, we are finding patterns that have you cut 2 pieces of cloth, to sew together... exact same grain, and they lay flaat when sewn together... meaning, it was something to make the pattern copyrightable... we just cut it as one piece... if the seam is needed... we put a seam where it goes by folding the cloth over and running a seam right at the edge with like an 1/16" or less between the fold and the stichting.. or we just top stitch it...
11:34 PM Crom: There has to be a better voice input method than hitting the microphone every time you want to type something
11:35 PM Crom: And it takes up to 2/5ths the screen so it's hard to read the responses.
11:54 PM tiwake: https://dallas.craigslist.org/sdf/tls/6136879552.html
11:57 PM Crom: morning DrippityDrops
11:59 PM Crom: listening to the the Beatles