#linuxcnc Logs

May 23 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:09 AM Crom: just received the 9 piece tap wrench m3,m4,m5,m6 taps and grill bits. Tap wrench will not work with the M3 or M4 taps
12:12 AM CaptHindsight: nice
12:12 AM Crom: http://www.ebay.com/itm/302186324493
12:12 AM CaptHindsight: isn't that handy :(
12:12 AM Crom: I'll have to find a cut off blade for my angle grinder and trim it down...
12:12 AM CaptHindsight: sold by Phuk Yuu
12:12 AM Crom: lol
12:15 AM Gene_home: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1830738289/maslow-cnc-a-500-open-source-4-by-8-foot-cnc-machi
12:15 AM Gene_home: http://sienci.com/product/sienci-mill-one-kit/
12:19 AM Guest78562: Gmoccappy HELP please where do I find a list of the files I need to use for V2.x been looking at the instructions and trying but seems like there is a collections of files tha tneed to be in your congig folder
12:21 AM Crom: Guest78562: which linuxcnc you running?
12:21 AM Crom: I only got gmoccapy working under 2.8.0-pre1 beta...
12:21 AM Guest78562: totally banging my head against the wall here
12:21 AM Guest78562: tried PNCConf 3 axis
12:21 AM Guest78562: than change the INI to GMO and the other edits
12:22 AM Guest78562: when I run I get no errors but doews not start
12:22 AM Guest78562: when I start in terminal
12:22 AM Crom: I have a Parallel port BOB
12:22 AM Guest78562: is only msgs I get
12:22 AM Guest78562: jungle@linuxCNC ~ $ cd linuxcnc
12:22 AM Guest78562: jungle@linuxCNC ~/linuxcnc $ linuxcnc
12:22 AM Guest78562: LINUXCNC - 2.8.0~pre1
12:22 AM Guest78562: Machine configuration directory is '/home/jungle/linuxcnc/configs/Mesa_XYZA'
12:22 AM Guest78562: Machine configuration file is 'Mesa_XYZA.ini'
12:22 AM Guest78562: Starting LinuxCNC...
12:22 AM Guest78562: Found file(REL): ./Mesa_XYZA.hal
12:22 AM Guest78562: Found file(REL): ./custom.hal
12:22 AM Guest78562: (0, ' = ', '/usr/bin/gmoccapy')
12:22 AM Guest78562: (1, ' = ', '-ini')
12:22 AM Guest78562: (2, ' = ', '/home/jungle/linuxcnc/configs/Mesa_XYZA/Mesa_XYZA.ini')
12:22 AM Guest78562: **** GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO ****
12:22 AM Guest78562: Preference file path: gmoccappy_preferences
12:23 AM Guest78562: ('found kinematics module', ['trivkins', 'coordinates=XYZA'])
12:23 AM Guest78562: ('Entry =', 'trivkins')
12:23 AM Guest78562: ('Entry =', 'coordinates=XYZA')
12:23 AM Guest78562: ('found the following coordinates', 'xyza')
12:23 AM Guest78562: ('Number of joints = ', 4)
12:23 AM Guest78562: 4 COORDINATES found = xyza
12:23 AM Guest78562: axis x = joint 0
12:23 AM Guest78562: axis y = joint 1
12:23 AM Guest78562: axis z = joint 2
12:23 AM Guest78562: axis a = joint 3
12:23 AM Guest78562: Combi_DRO_y = joint 1
12:23 AM Guest78562: Combi_DRO_x = joint 0
12:23 AM Guest78562: Combi_DRO_z = joint 2
12:23 AM roycroft: stop that
12:23 AM Guest78562: Combi_DRO_4 = joint 3
12:23 AM Guest78562: self.widgets.window1.show()
12:23 AM Guest78562: task: main loop took 0.121195 seconds
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** GMOCCAPY INFO ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** gmoccapy screen 2 found ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** GMOCCAPY INFO ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** Invalid embedded tab configuration ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** No tabs will be added! ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** GMOCCAPY INFO ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** audio available! ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** GMOCCAPY ERROR ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: **** Did not find a parameter file in [RS274NGC] PARAMETER_FILE ****
12:23 AM Guest78562: Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
12:23 AM Guest78562: Running HAL shutdown script
12:23 AM Guest78562: task: 76 cycles, min=0.000003, max=0.121195, avg=0.009272, 1 latency excursions (> 10x expected cycle time of 0.010000s)
12:24 AM roycroft: STOP THAT!
12:24 AM Guest78562: jungle@linuxCNC ~/linuxcnc $
12:24 AM Guest78562: I poster this on LinuxCNC Forum last night but for some reason I can not access forum today or the forum is down
12:24 AM Guest78562: the gmo under sim section they work and startup fine
12:24 AM Guest78562: so gmo sim works
12:24 AM roycroft: stop spamming
12:24 AM roycroft: what is wrong with you?
12:24 AM Guest78562: my stuff does not
12:24 AM Guest78562: lol there is a thought
12:24 AM roycroft: use a pastebin site if you think you need to show stuff like that
12:24 AM Guest78562: what do you mean stop spamming
12:24 AM Crom: use pastebin
12:24 AM Guest78562: I am not
12:24 AM roycroft: you are
12:24 AM Guest78562: trying to get help on GMO V2
12:25 AM roycroft: you were causing massive scrolling
12:25 AM Crom: dumping multi line from config files is called spamming
12:25 AM Guest78562: i search to see what pastebin is
12:25 AM roycroft: please use it in future
12:25 AM Guest78562: aha
12:25 AM Guest78562: sorry
12:25 AM Crom: one earns...
12:25 AM Crom: one learns...
12:25 AM roycroft: you are obviously new to this
12:25 AM Guest78562: yes
12:25 AM roycroft: so i'll give you a pass this time
12:26 AM Guest78562: I am an airbus pilot
12:26 AM Guest78562: with an interest in CNC
12:26 AM Crom: wooo bus driver...
12:27 AM roycroft: i wonder when uber is going to start booking private pilots
12:27 AM Crom: well even the smallest Airbis is a bit big for uber
12:28 AM roycroft: i'll invest in cesna stock when uber start their airline business
12:28 AM roycroft: actually, lear will be where the money is
12:29 AM Crom: Good friend of mine was a gas station driver.. KC-135
12:29 AM Crom: cesna is owned by boeing now...
12:30 AM Guest78562: Goodjob
12:30 AM Guest78562: I am out ion the Jungle
12:30 AM Guest78562: VIETNAM
12:30 AM Guest78562: try building a CNC in vietnam LOL is a nightmare
12:30 AM Crom: I was stationed in Malaysia with the Peace Corps
12:30 AM Guest78562: been using Mach3 but need much better now
12:31 AM Guest78562: moving onto a BC head
12:31 AM Crom: Guest78562: you get to Honk Kong?
12:31 AM Guest78562: Mach 3 falls apart there
12:31 AM Crom: Hong Kong
12:31 AM Guest78562: Mach 4 has steep learning curve and all closed source
12:31 AM roycroft: i'm watching some videos of a guy restoring an old leblond lathe
12:31 AM Guest78562: Crom you are in HK
12:32 AM roycroft: and he keeps setting his tools down on the ways
12:32 AM roycroft: it makes me cringe every time
12:32 AM Crom: I'm in the Peoples Republic of California
12:32 AM Guest78562: I am building this machine for 1 job to build a retirement Catamaran
12:33 AM Guest78562: I am a part time Naval Arch. and not trying the manufacturing side
12:33 AM Crom: Guest78562: look at JMC-motion.com for closed loop steppers
12:33 AM Guest78562: Cool
12:34 AM Guest78562: I have leadshine now
12:34 AM Crom: JMC-MOTOR.com is thier english site
12:34 AM Guest78562: aha
12:35 AM Crom: I would stick with AXIS right now... 2.8.0 should be released within the year...
12:35 AM Guest78562: I am impressed with Linux Mint Cinamon
12:35 AM Guest78562: and LinuxCNC is running fine
12:35 AM Guest78562: got 6 axis working with AXIS
12:36 AM Guest78562: but the Gmoccappy is not only in simulate
12:36 AM Guest78562: even with just 3-axis
12:37 AM Guest78562: trying to find a defenitive list of all the files that needs to be copied into the home folder
12:37 AM Crom: yeah I could never get gmoccapy working in 2.7.8
12:38 AM Crom: there is also touchy and gscreen
12:38 AM Guest78562: i compiled 2.8 Master last night and gmo sim works
12:39 AM Guest78562: i posted a detailed list of all i did on the Forum
12:42 AM Crom: cnc3040.pref custom.hal custom_postgui.hal autosave.halscope cnc3040-800.pref pyvcp_options.hal postgui_call_list.hal tool.tbl cnc3040-800.hal linuxcnc.var cnc3040-800.ini
12:43 AM Crom: that's the file list of my config dir I using for GMOCCAPY
12:44 AM Guest78562: where did you get these files from
12:45 AM Crom: ~/linuxcnc/configs/cnc3040-800/
12:46 AM Crom: run stepconf wizard and select gmoccapy
12:46 AM Guest78562: aha
12:46 AM Crom: if you are running 2.8.0
12:46 AM Guest78562: i am running Pccnconf as I have MesaIO
12:47 AM Crom: I don't know if pccconf does gmopccapy
12:47 AM Guest78562: i have the 6i25 and 2-7i76
12:47 AM Guest78562: ther is nothing in it that say anything about gmo
12:47 AM Crom: I'm running Parallel port BOB
12:47 AM Guest78562: ok
12:48 AM Guest78562: i will try stepconf and see if it will generate a starting point
12:50 AM Guest78562: Sir roycroft thanks for the pass today is the second time ever using IRC
12:51 AM roycroft: i think you've figured that part out now :)
12:51 AM Guest78562: i need to grow some hair
12:51 AM Guest78562: i got none to pull out
12:51 AM roycroft: grow an heir instead
12:51 AM roycroft: more fun
12:51 AM roycroft: at first
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: heir cut?
01:34 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:38 AM IchGucksLive: Guest78562: still on
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: guten morgen Deejay
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: till later
02:05 AM Guest78562: Does Gmoccappy V2.x work with Mesa 5i25 and 7i66 Stepcong has a gmo tick box but Pncconf has no GMO tick boxes when running the Wizard
02:12 AM archivist_herron: the gui should be unrelated to the config program, else just copy any item needed from one to the other hal/ini
02:18 AM Deejay: moin
02:19 AM TurBoss: hello!
02:29 AM archivist_herron: Guest78562, remember the configurations programs are just for getting basic settings, for detailed configuration use an editor on the hal/ini files
04:59 AM Tom_L: moin
05:03 AM TurBoss: hello
05:03 AM XXCoder: yo
05:03 AM TurBoss: o/
05:11 AM rwlloyd: Good morning/afternoon/evening all. I've come to talk about timing issues on an industrial laser system I've built.
05:13 AM rwlloyd: Does anybody have any idea how to stop the crntroller from pausing motion while it turns the spindle off? I'm using M3 and M5 to torn a pulsed laser on and off. But I'm getting a double pulse when the laser turns off, so essentially, there is a 0.1s pause!
05:29 AM jthornton: M3 and M5 are what we call queue busters that stop motion
05:29 AM archivist_herron: this guy has done a lot with laser see his methods http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Micges_Laser
05:30 AM archivist_herron: ew what happened to his page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Laser_Beam_Compensation
05:31 AM jthornton: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rastering_With_A_Laser
05:31 AM XXCoder: jthornton: for first time one of my tools failed certificationm
05:31 AM XXCoder: aw
05:32 AM jthornton: at work?
05:32 AM XXCoder: its nice older fowler dial caliper. I just ordered a replacement
05:32 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:33 AM archivist_herron: rwlloyd, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LaserBeamCompensation
05:47 AM rwlloyd: Thanks, I'll take a look. I've managed to fudge it for now, added a rapid move on the same line as the m5
05:48 AM XXCoder: jthornton: lol this is cheapest but I don't really want it. :P https://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Case-Cover-Titanium-Graphing-Calculator/dp/B00JALV7T8/
05:50 AM jthornton: yea I would not want that either lol
05:50 AM XXCoder: "rare forest green" 48 sold.
05:50 AM XXCoder: more than 10. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Forest-Green-Protective-Slide-Cover-TI-84-Plus-Silver-Edition-and-84PlusC-/201648416617
05:50 AM XXCoder: lol
05:52 AM rwlloyd: archivist_herron Thanks for the links, while they're interesting, I don't think they'll help.
05:54 AM rwlloyd: jthornton, is there any way you can achieve the same kind of effect without stopping motion? I've used M3 and M5 because it saves me from rewriting some fairly complex postprocessors. I suppose a python script to scrape them after initial post is not out of the question though.
05:56 AM jthornton: M3 and M5 are queue busters
05:58 AM jthornton: XXCoder: I like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guerrilla-Hard-Slide-Case-Cover-for-TI-84-Plus-TI-84-Plus-C-Silver-Edition-TI-89-/262873328504?hash=item3d3478ab78:g:PBUAAOSw~AVYtK4V
05:58 AM XXCoder: me too. its expensive though :P
05:58 AM jthornton: yea
05:59 AM XXCoder: best so far http://www.ebay.com/itm/TI-84-Plus-Silver-Edition-Cover-/292099742253?hash=item4402805a2d:g:HGEAAOSwj85YLzcs
05:59 AM XXCoder: its not fancy but ya know if it covers it covers.
06:01 AM XXCoder: pretty cool https://www.amazon.com/TI-84-Plus-Faceplate-Holster-Zebra/dp/B005LZXQVE/
06:01 AM XXCoder: but pimp just arent me
06:02 AM jthornton: that's my color lol https://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Faceplate-Instruments-Graphing-Calculator/dp/B00CPK9AIG/ref=pd_sbs_229_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00CPK9AIG&pd_rd_r=A5A2E8MRP0EKFQKMEG3Y&pd_rd_w=Imeav&pd_rd_wg=j5vPc&psc=1&refRID=A5A2E8MRP0EKFQKMEG3Y
06:03 AM XXCoder: just faceplate
06:03 AM XXCoder: man price is insane
06:04 AM XXCoder: woww https://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Case-Cover-Titanium-Graphing-Calculator/dp/B00D5Q9L2O/
06:04 AM XXCoder: high price too :P
06:06 AM archivist_herron: rwlloyd, queue buster means dont do it with m3 m5
06:06 AM jthornton: yea I like that one
06:07 AM XXCoder: if the plain one dont work out I will pimp out my ti-84 :P
06:07 AM XXCoder: itsb cheapest that isn't so girly
06:07 AM XXCoder: surpised black isnt more common.,
06:08 AM rwlloyd: yep. got that. Just wondering what it's better to do it with? is it better to do it with a digital output? or even the S number connected to M3?
06:10 AM archivist_herron: I would try to find how micges does it
06:11 AM archivist_herron: how jt starts stops plasma is probable similar but dunno
06:13 AM jthornton: no, the plasma starts before the motion starts
06:13 AM jthornton: and is on until the motion is finished
06:13 AM XXCoder: seriouslu this is a wtf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAYI5YQXcAENp4o.jpg
06:14 AM XXCoder: trump: I feeeel the power. Guy in middle: "really? I feel nothing so far" Left guy: "I think I feel it, a little."
06:15 AM archivist_herron: jthornton, I would think a user may want similar, to get a hole before the traverse
06:15 AM rwlloyd: I'm the other way round. I have to start motion before I can fire the laser. I'm drilling holes on-the-fly at 10hz
06:16 AM XXCoder: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0l5YsoopKPo/hqdefault.jpg ;)
06:22 AM rwlloyd: with laser cutting, you'd be correct, however for laser drilling, and possibly welding, you only want the laser to fire once you're moving, lest you get one spot too hot.
06:23 AM archivist_herron: and an offset depending on speed to get alignment right
06:23 AM XXCoder: well
06:23 AM XXCoder: I wonder if can define custom M code for laser turn on and off
06:23 AM archivist_herron: time to melt
06:23 AM XXCoder: that way theres no pause
06:24 AM jthornton: and the chicken door opens by itself
06:25 AM rwlloyd: wait a minute... you can do that? I mean, add a delay to a custom Mcode?
06:25 AM jthornton: and they are all out before the door gets half way open lol
06:26 AM archivist_herron: rwlloyd, dunno, but I am thinking of my experience of ink in flight(printers) and hops in flight( hop weighing machine)
06:31 AM rwlloyd: Welp, I feel another learning curve approaching. I think it's time to build a simulation machine. I dont suppose you have any experience of vismach and custom kinematics do you? I've managed to build a 5 axis, XYZAB with the B sat on the A axis.... apparently, that's fairly unique!
06:31 AM rwlloyd: I'll have to get my head round that before I can sort this timing issue. The machine is running production as we speak
06:35 AM archivist_herron: I have played with vismach but not deeply, my 5 axis does usually get custom mounting for jobs and the maths lives in the gcode not in the kins
06:35 AM XXCoder: is there even docs on vismach?
06:36 AM archivist_herron: the source is the doc
06:36 AM XXCoder: interesting
06:37 AM archivist_herron: A on B and a funny angle http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1633.JPG
06:40 AM rwlloyd: Not proper ones that I've seen. As for the Maths, I'm wondering if I can adapt the ac and bc kinematics in the dev branch. The machine is in a multipurpose industrial env. All of the configs have their own tooling that drops in place. the maths needs to stay in the kinematics to avoid confusing the operators unfortunately.
06:41 AM rwlloyd: Yep. that's the sort of head-fuckery we're talking about. In my case, conical spirals normal to the surface to begin with.
06:42 AM archivist_herron: I want to add another axis to rotate A
06:42 AM trasz: seb_kuzminsky: ping.
06:42 AM XXCoder: A with another A on it eh
06:43 AM archivist_herron: C I suppose as it is rotary
06:43 AM archivist_herron: but when going off conventional, normal rules dont apply
06:43 AM rwlloyd: C would be rotating around the Z axis
06:44 AM archivist_herron: that setup was for bevel gear tooth generation
06:44 AM rwlloyd: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/kinematics/xyzac-trt-kins.c
06:44 AM rwlloyd: you can use this and just add the offsets in your hal file i believe
06:45 AM rwlloyd: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/ja/html/motion/5-axis-kinematics.html#_tool_length_compensation
06:56 AM rwlloyd: shit... have i scared you both off?
06:56 AM mr_boo: hi
06:56 AM archivist_herron: I am using a form tool in some way so I want tool centering not length
06:57 AM archivist_herron: I got side tracked here at a contract job
06:58 AM mr_boo: what file extentions do g-code files have and should they be located in the "config" folder?
06:58 AM mr_boo: i'm absolutely new to linuxcnc
06:58 AM archivist_herron: it has a default of .ngc
06:59 AM mr_boo: ok
06:59 AM rwlloyd: no worries, I'm running jobs too. YOu can do tool centering, im sure, but you'll still need tool length. I just used that link because it skips all matrix maths.
06:59 AM mr_boo: and should be located in the project directory together with the .hal .var and .ini files?
07:00 AM archivist_herron: rwlloyd, I need it on a centre line in mid air hence the pointer to the left in image http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1634.JPG
07:00 AM archivist_herron: mr_boo, keep gcode in a separate directory
07:02 AM mr_boo: when i made a new configuration with stepper config it made a folder which i named to "wirewinder" since i'm gonna control a wire winder
07:03 AM archivist_herron: I thought you did this a long while ago
07:03 AM rwlloyd: yep. I understand, in that case, your tool length would be from the point of the z offset to the centreline of your form. I think.... I've only been looking at this stuff for a week or two.
07:03 AM mr_boo: ah now i see the "nc_files" folder
07:03 AM mr_boo: this is where the .ngc files go to right?
07:03 AM archivist_herron: yes
07:04 AM mr_boo: i'm about to make my first minimalistic foo.ngc
07:04 AM archivist_herron: I remember your guitar pickup coils project
07:04 AM mr_boo: holy smoke
07:04 AM mr_boo: that was ten years ago
07:05 AM rwlloyd: BAck in a bit. Time to measure the 10,000 holes I just drilled!
07:08 AM XXCoder: with cmm hopefully, rwlloyd lol
07:12 AM mr_boo: i like the tutorials from
07:12 AM mr_boo: Tom Stikkelman
07:13 AM mr_boo: why are some g-code lines like this without spaces "G91G28Z0"?
07:14 AM archivist_herron: produce from CAM not designed for human reader
07:14 AM mr_boo: ah
07:14 AM mr_boo: but it is the same as writing "G91 G28 Z0" on the same line?
07:15 AM XXCoder: yeah whitespace dont matter
07:16 AM archivist_herron: a hand written gcode file with comments and variables will be very different
07:16 AM mr_boo: i would like to get a real cnc mill but the price tag is way beyond my capabilities
07:17 AM mr_boo: however if i could get me a good xy-table i could probably build the rest myself
07:17 AM mr_boo: i've got a very small workshop
07:48 AM rwlloyd: xxcoder, actually, no. It's a fairly stable process, so we dont actually measure all 10k, just a random sample and then apply maths.
08:02 AM archivist_herron: mr_boo, written in a style that is more readable http://www.archivist.info/cnc/standard_clock_n_teeth.ngc
08:04 AM mr_boo: archivist_herron: so you're a watchmaker?
08:10 AM archivist_herron: erm.... was a clock maker for a while with occasional watch parts
08:12 AM mr_boo: i could see that the photo you showed was really small scale zoomed in
08:37 AM mr_boo: can i add an acceleration parameter for a linear feed G1?
08:38 AM gregcnc: no, but what are you trying to achieve?
08:38 AM mr_boo: wire-winding
08:39 AM mr_boo: starting the bobbin with a quick jerk might break wire
08:40 AM gregcnc: you can reduce the acceleration for that axis in ini
08:41 AM mr_boo: will it do deacceleration also?
08:41 AM gregcnc: one and same
08:41 AM mr_boo: thanks this'll do
08:41 AM gregcnc: coordinated movments will be limited by this axis
08:42 AM sync: interestingly, that will not reduce the jerk
08:42 AM gregcnc: limited by the ability of the stepper
08:42 AM gregcnc: stepper has minimum acceleration
08:43 AM mr_boo: didn't know they had a minimum value
08:43 AM gregcnc: sync does microstepping help here?
08:47 AM mr_boo: my wire winding machine doesn't have any real coordinates
08:47 AM mr_boo: can i fool linuxcnc so it doesn't need to rewind the imaginary tool?
08:49 AM sync: gregcnc: no, because linuxcnc only support constant accel
08:49 AM sync: which means infinite jerk
08:50 AM archivist_herron: mr_boo, try the wrapped rotary mode
08:51 AM mr_boo: archivist_herron: restarting linuxcnc did the trick also
09:00 AM mr_boo: can linuxcnc understand "while" statements?
09:02 AM mr_boo: tried the "while" example here unsuccessfully http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCGCodeIFGOTOWHEN.htm
09:03 AM archivist_herron: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#ocode:looping
09:03 AM archivist_herron: use the real docs not other sites
09:04 AM archivist_herron: gcode varies across controls
09:05 AM mr_boo: ok thanks
09:38 AM gcardinal: is there an editor with code highlight in gcode? win / mac / linux
09:44 AM archivist_herron: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/30840-new-syntax-highlighting-for-gedit
09:56 AM gcardinal: archivist_herron oh cool, thank you!
10:02 AM roycroft: aah, my shim stock delivery date has been pushd up to tomorrow
10:02 AM IchGucksLive: hi
10:03 AM roycroft: hello
10:04 AM Jymmm: Hello from hot/cold EARTH!
10:05 AM roycroft: hot is the word for here today
10:05 AM roycroft: as in 29 degrees
10:41 AM Jymmm: roycroft: That's it?! between 35 and 39 last couple of days
10:45 AM roycroft: it's unseasonably warm for us
10:45 AM roycroft: near the record high
10:59 AM Jymmm: ah ok
11:42 AM Loetmichel_: hmmm
11:43 AM Loetmichel_: thermometer says 26.2°c outside right here in the middle of germany (and blue sky)... and i STILL have no working engine in the 318i convertible :-(
11:53 AM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel_: Not a problem imo:) http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/10_cars/flintstones.jpg
11:54 AM Loetmichel_: "yabbadabbadoooo!"
11:56 AM Deejay: only 21°C here
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel_: what happened to the last car with all the trips to the mechanic?
12:04 PM Loetmichel_: i am still driving it daily
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: did you get everything working well or just putting up with it?
12:05 PM Loetmichel_: the "fun car" i bought last month (1999 BMW 318i convertible) managed to throw a rod two saturdays ago...
12:07 PM Loetmichel_: the station wagon works well now, but i need new tyres and i think some rubber sleeve in the front suspenion gave way... it steers slightly to the left or the wheel turns right when you let go and step on the brakes
12:07 PM archivist: get newer cars with less miles on them
12:09 PM Loetmichel_: newer cars dont have what i want. neither looks nor practicability
12:12 PM archivist: you need a speed limited truck, carry crap and lasts
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: new gimmicks fir flaring tools https://youtu.be/ztEa3M3656o?t=30s
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: eccentric vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hNulDpYAts
12:45 PM LeelooMinai: What is that "flare" for?
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: what if you combine heat with the eccentric?
12:49 PM sync: flare connections, like in hvac
12:50 PM LeelooMinai: Right, googled by now.
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: hi LeelooMinai
12:51 PM LeelooMinai: I guess copper is so soft that acts as a seal when it compresses
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: you might wonder on that material
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: it is the hardest to chip
12:52 PM LeelooMinai: What material?
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: copper
12:52 PM LeelooMinai: Right, you mean it's very "plastic"?
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: i only kow that the EDM people only got special tools to chip the E-copper
12:53 PM LeelooMinai: Because I don't think it's "hard" by any means:)
12:53 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: it is very ductile
12:54 PM Loetmichel_: if its 99.9% copper
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: maybe in this days it is different but 35years ago it has been a nightmare on Elektrodes milling
12:54 PM Loetmichel_: it does work-karden though
12:54 PM Loetmichel_: work-harden
12:54 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I guess materials like alu, copper, etc. are hard to cut with tools, not because they are hard, but they tend to clog/stick to the tools and make them fail this way.
12:55 PM Loetmichel_: right
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: Titanium is causing firer at the mashine that is realy hard stuff
12:55 PM Loetmichel_: IchGucksLive: only if you are in a hurry
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: the tool is alays in a harry rotating
12:55 PM Loetmichel_: if you keep the feeds/doc reasonable you will never have a titanium fire
12:56 PM LeelooMinai: What is next step after machining titanium - machining WC? :)
12:56 PM Loetmichel_: WC?
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: Water C
12:56 PM gregcnc: you don't know WC?
12:56 PM LeelooMinai: Chemical symbols 101:)
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: WC stones are also hard to get sculöpong on
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: sculping
12:57 PM Loetmichel_: Did you mean tungsten carbide?
12:58 PM gregcnc: I thought WC was common for tungsten carbide in EU
12:58 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, thought that's common name, but maybe not.
12:58 PM Loetmichel_: gregcnc: at least for germans, Tungsten is called "Wolfram" here
12:58 PM Loetmichel_: dont know for poland though
12:58 PM LeelooMinai: In my tool DB I use WC for those millbits.
12:58 PM Tom_L: LeelooMinai my bud used to machine tungsten
12:58 PM Tom_L: give that a try
12:58 PM sync: machining tungsten is not too difficult I hear
12:58 PM gregcnc: you are in germany right? we aren't talkign water closets
12:59 PM Loetmichel_: i just imagined in an english channel it would be called tungsten, so i didnt make the connection
12:59 PM LeelooMinai: Right, wolfram in Poland too.
12:59 PM sync: you can get tungsten copper tho for EDM
12:59 PM sync: which machines better than pure copper
12:59 PM LeelooMinai: Well, english or not - I mean W is tungsten in chemical chart in English too.
12:59 PM Tom_L: i'd imagine anything machines better than pure copper :D
12:59 PM Loetmichel_: sync: tungsten isnt THAT much of a problem
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: sync: berilium is the stuff you want
01:00 PM Loetmichel_: Tungstn carbide however is a "bit" on the hard side ;)
01:00 PM sync: what for? edm? not really
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: now i hear that grafite electrodes are most comen
01:00 PM gregcnc: I turned some pure copper recently, not terrible
01:00 PM sync: yes, graphite is common
01:00 PM sync: but W-Cu is also not uncommon
01:00 PM LeelooMinai: What I mean WC is chemical formula name in English too - one W atom and one C attom, lattice I believe.
01:01 PM LeelooMinai: Probably packed crystal like structure making it so hard.
01:02 PM LeelooMinai: But, never heard anyone milling carbide... It's mostly processed by grinding, right?
01:02 PM Tom_L: mercury is a challenge to machine too
01:03 PM Tom_L: LeelooMinai, we machined tungsten with tungsten carbide
01:03 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: You just need to have your shop on Arctica and it's easy:)
01:04 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: So I guess one was some softer "klnd? Or was it some kamikadze milling...
01:04 PM Tom_L: it was quite brittle
01:04 PM Tom_L: if you dropped it, it would crack
01:04 PM Tom_L: wing ballast
01:04 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe you could have some kind of endmill with diamond powder embedded or something.
01:05 PM gregcnc: pure tungsten vs tungsten carbide.....
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: EDM too
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: sync: I see there's also something called WC-Co - cemented carbide.
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: Though Ws higher melting point is a problem
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: It's used, well as used, in bulb filaments for that reason, right?
01:06 PM Loetmichel_: LeelooMinai: nearly all tungsten carbide tools are made with cobalt as a "filler" for the sintered carbide.
01:08 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I have some drills that have cobalt added - what does it really do though?
01:08 PM LeelooMinai: I mean why would they add it to carbide tools and steel ones too?
01:09 PM Loetmichel_: they dont "add" it to carbide
01:09 PM Loetmichel_: its carbide dust "glued together" in a matrix of cobalt
01:09 PM LeelooMinai: Well, I mean in that WC-Co formula, it's there.
01:10 PM gregcnc: tungsten carbide tools are WC powrder sintered with a binder, Co
01:10 PM Loetmichel_: it just acts as a kind of solder
01:10 PM LeelooMinai: So like cement in a concrete?
01:10 PM Loetmichel_: yrs
01:10 PM Loetmichel_: yes
01:10 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but then what is it about in drill bits that have cobalt added?
01:11 PM LeelooMinai: It's only 9% or something.
01:11 PM gregcnc: those are steel alloys
01:11 PM Loetmichel_: i think in steel alloys it acts as a "surfaces hardener"
01:11 PM Loetmichel_: but my mtallurgy classes are loooong gone
01:11 PM LeelooMinai: Right, so it has different purpose there.
01:12 PM djdelorie: 9% or 0.9% ?
01:12 PM LeelooMinai: No idea even waht pure Cobalt is like.
01:12 PM LeelooMinai: I think it was in 5%-9% range - not 100%, but let me see.
01:12 PM gregcnc: machinery's handbook is 1000+ pages of this sort of trivia
01:13 PM gregcnc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_steel
01:13 PM LeelooMinai: Right, 5 to 8% - I used cobalt drills when making my CNC frame. Probably not necessary, but I got them from Ali and thought why not.
01:14 PM gregcnc: were than also tin coated with gold paint?
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: gregcnc: toda ive seen steel rides the forest
01:14 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: No, they are pretty good - you think Chinese don't have any good tools? :)
01:15 PM gregcnc: no
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: If you know what you are buying and did research, you will get what you want - not for rock bottom price, but still for 1/3 of the cost from US, etc.
01:16 PM gregcnc: I still send as little of my money there as possible
01:16 PM Tom_L: i think they probably keep them
01:16 PM LeelooMinai: And I used them to drill those rather thick 1/4 inch steel angles I have on the frame - no problem there, did not dull or anything.
01:17 PM gregcnc: anything that passed a customers spec went to the customer. everything else doesn't go to scrap except to sell to less discerning customers
01:17 PM LeelooMinai: I must say though that they are not as forgiving as HSS ones. Somewhere between HSS and Carbide I would say - I manged to break one.
01:18 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, so I still wonder what pure Coblat is good for - nothing? :) Maybe is reactive too much or somethig.
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: ChinaCo rule #1 ^^
01:19 PM LeelooMinai: CaptHindsight: At least they seem to take clean energy seriously:p
01:20 PM gregcnc: when their air and water is clean we can believe that
01:21 PM LeelooMinai: Well, sure, in the past they may done bad things, but at least look into the future.
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: it's whatever the guberment decides, like the weather
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: officially it's never over 40 C there since then different work roles come into effect
01:23 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it kind of exist as a "block of metal" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt#/media/File:Kobalt_13g.jpg
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: it's good to be the king
01:24 PM LeelooMinai: But seems to be used only for alloys and in the past for some blue pigments, so I guess not useful for any direct use.
01:25 PM IchGucksLive: GN8 from Germany im off
01:25 PM LeelooMinai: CaptHindsight: Who's a king now?
01:27 PM Tom_L: king of who's castle?
01:27 PM LeelooMinai: I don't know... He wrote that it's good to be the king:)
01:28 PM Tom_L: and it is
01:28 PM LeelooMinai: Not necessarily.
01:28 PM LeelooMinai: You may end up with your head cut off and other inconveniences:)
01:29 PM Tom_L: have good friends in other countries
01:29 PM LeelooMinai: Or someone will poison you.
01:31 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, so I read that that cobalt addition to steel makes it a bit stronger, but mostly it's about making it heat resistant it seems.
01:31 PM LeelooMinai: Up to 600 deg C
01:33 PM Tom_L: so you can press a bit harder on the drillpress handle before it glows
01:34 PM sync: well, the cutting edge is subjected to a lot of heat stress
01:35 PM sync: which is why you want cutting tools that resist heat well
01:35 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I guess you should not have a situation where there's too much heat anyways, but, at the edge it will happen with cooling or not.
01:35 PM Tom_L: yeah i've seen those slo-mo videos of cutters... it's amazing they cut at all
01:35 PM sync: LeelooMinai: coolant is kind of misunderstood
01:36 PM sync: it does not really cool the cutting tool
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Coolant cools imo - what's there to understand:)
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it cools something - material?
01:36 PM sync: rather it lubricates the surface so chips don't gall as easily and keeps the workpiece cool so it is dimensionally stable
01:36 PM Tom_L: ^^
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: it's there to make the part slippery when you remove it from the vise or fixture
01:37 PM Tom_L: yeah so you slice your hand off
01:37 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, ok, but potato tomato - if the material is heated it will also transfer the ehat to the tool and that will surely not be good as it will make it softer.
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: machining is pretty boring if you ask me and coolant is there to just liven things up
01:38 PM sync: no LeelooMinai
01:38 PM LeelooMinai: sync: What do you mean no - HSS when hot will dull in no time.
01:38 PM sync: sure, but that is not due to the work heating up
01:38 PM LeelooMinai: ...
01:39 PM LeelooMinai: I am saying that hot tool is bad.
01:39 PM Tom_L: depends :)
01:39 PM Tom_L: carbide likes heat
01:39 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, maybe not a blowtorch, etc.:)
01:39 PM LeelooMinai: Tom_L: It does?
01:39 PM sync: a hot tool to some degree is fine, machining hardened stuff works that way
01:40 PM sync: but most of the heat generated will be in the chip
01:40 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Then it's not the hot tool that helps there, but the material being hot, no?
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPP_7nyrMw if the video was at full speed the chips would come off faster
01:40 PM sync: the material is not hot, only in the zone where it is cut :P
01:41 PM sync: which is the important destinction to make
01:41 PM LeelooMinai: sync: I see... so that's one of those discussions where one needs to make some point and it ends up with "not at the quantum-mechanics level!" :p
01:42 PM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1K5QjR3hyU
01:42 PM Tom_L: LeelooMinai, in that video notice what part comes off blue hot
01:42 PM sync: well, it is the fundamentals of how cutting tools work LeelooMinai
01:42 PM sync: I'm sorry that physics work that way
01:42 PM LeelooMinai: sync: They work by using heat to cut?
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRuSYQ5Npek Iscar Chip Formation
01:43 PM gregcnc: like cutting cheese with a butter knife
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: Diamond Turning Copper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAvfrrlMZg4
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: you need more diamond tooling
01:45 PM Jymmm: ...and cowbell!
01:45 PM gregcnc: I have some for high silicon AL project on my list
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I'm building a similar lathe with leftover parts from an Apple project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRz8y4BNEuw
01:46 PM LeelooMinai: Show off - made a mirror finish on a copper and waves to it in the camera.
01:47 PM gregcnc: Cool, I'd love to see it run if it's not a secret squirrel project
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: you can never have enough cowbell
01:47 PM LeelooMinai: Diamon turnic acrylic doome is cool too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWbz0Wf2rM#t=59.826939
01:48 PM LeelooMinai: Diamond-turning*
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: there is a similar air bearing on ebay for cheap. lmftl
01:48 PM sync: they pop up all the time
01:49 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I wonder if non-diamond turning acrylic would work bad, or they just have some super-precision lathe there that makes everything so smooth.
01:49 PM sync: I like how all of the diamond turning lathes use moore coordinate grinders as a base
01:50 PM gregcnc: depends how good a finish and shape you want
01:50 PM LeelooMinai: SO the ffinish is due to the diamond being sharp?
01:51 PM LeelooMinai: It's not like acrylic is hard by itself.
01:51 PM LeelooMinai: I mean what if they just used carbide?
01:51 PM gregcnc: try it
01:53 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, just a sec
01:54 PM roycroft: carbide isn't and can't be very sharp
01:54 PM roycroft: it's hard to get a really nice finish like that with brut force tooling
01:54 PM roycroft: brute
01:55 PM sync: the problem is the relatively big particle size in carbide
01:55 PM sync: which is why you can sharpen hss sharper
01:56 PM roycroft: yes
01:56 PM roycroft: if you want a mirror finish you need something with a microfine edge
01:56 PM roycroft: not big chunks of carbide scraping away at the part
01:57 PM sync: and single crystal diamonds can be atom layer sharp
01:57 PM roycroft: and i should imagine that diamonds can hold a better edge than hss
01:57 PM sync: as the only limitation is the lattice
01:57 PM roycroft: exactly
01:58 PM roycroft: not all carbon is the same :)
01:59 PM sync: you only have the diamond structure in diamond, same as Si or Ge
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: so that explains why my HF Dymond end mills cut so poorly
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: what a waste of $30 for the set
02:08 PM gregcnc: but it was from china and the price was good
02:09 PM gregcnc: try one of these next time http://tinyurl.com/mcogb73
02:09 PM sync: I'm actually suprised how well PCD coated carbide works
02:10 PM gregcnc: pcd coated?
02:10 PM sync: yeah
02:11 PM sync: I have not really found out if they are lying and it is just dlc, but they claim pcd
02:11 PM gregcnc: which?
02:11 PM sync: wouldn't suprise me tho if that worked
02:11 PM sync: ha, they changed it to dlc
02:11 PM sync: garant dlc
02:12 PM sync: same with zirconia, works really well in non ferrous stuff
02:13 PM gregcnc: I've seen that coating recently, must be different than the typical CVD diamond caot
02:14 PM sync: I don't think so
02:15 PM sync: I suppose they managed to make it stick
02:17 PM sync: gotta get my TiN setup running again and try something more fancy
02:17 PM gregcnc: i forget who , but someone makes helical endmills with PCD cutting edges
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: is it just me or am I noticinga trend where you send someone an email with >10 or so sentences and they respond with questions or statements that show that they didn't read what you just sent them
02:29 PM gregcnc: If you sent it in a tweet or instagram post, it may be more conducive to absorbtion
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: yes, my concern
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: I'm not sure how they get any work done
02:30 PM gregcnc: otherwise TLDR, you didn't answer my questions so I'm asking agian
02:31 PM jdh: what?
02:31 PM gregcnc: i think haiku is also accepted
02:31 PM jdh: I try to number questions or sections
02:32 PM jdh: otherwise they only answer the one easy question you didn't need as much
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: so sending them a spec sheet with 40 specifications for them to fill out is just absurd now huh
02:33 PM jdh: though I just emailed a weld power supply vendor with about 10 unnumbered sections because it was obnoxious
02:34 PM gregcnc: I would think it would weed out the serious customers pretty quick
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: but this was from someone with "senior engineer" in his title :)
02:36 PM gregcnc: seems appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8utmmWoBSBY
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: what level is above that? Most Holy? Really really senior? Just shy of the top gut we got?
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: what sad is that I rarely meet anyone that gets these videos anymore
02:41 PM gregcnc: even the great empires fall
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: "he probably doesn't even know what a degree is"
02:44 PM gregcnc: "i think that's what i actually think"
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: that was great as well
02:45 PM Jymmm: degree... that stuff you rub on your pits so you don't stink?
02:45 PM Crom: ROTFLMAO
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: I often ask people if they actually think that they think what they think
02:46 PM Crom: All the example people never got thier degree...
02:48 PM gregcnc: capthindsight I need to use that, but on occasion I ask did you think before you let that spill out of your mouth
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: again maybe just me, but when I was a kid the older people used to tell us that grown ups tend to think before they speak
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: I stopped experiencing and hearing that decades ago
02:51 PM LeelooMinai: Nowadays you can hear the parents saying to their children "Do your homework, or you will be like Mr President!"
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: Ageism and idiocracy for the win
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: but the pendulum should swing back the other way in 50 years
03:35 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, is it normal for a test indicator to show differently depending if you slide the end sphere into a round rail, and then different when you retract it (seeking the highest value.)?
03:37 PM LeelooMinai: On one hand seems bad, but on the other when I think aoubt it, different forces are at work (in opposite directions, ) so, maybe that's ok?
03:38 PM LeelooMinai: Or it means that the indicator is low quality? I don't know:/
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: http://www.amerimoldexpo.com/
03:41 PM gregcnc: may be fun to wander around
03:41 PM sync: LeelooMinai: it means the indicator is broken
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.btm-mfg.com/blog/fastener-tech-2017
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: lots of metal and material suppliers for mould making
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: fastener tech is not as exciting
03:44 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Right, but you know, if you say "it's broken", it may mean "it's not $1k mitutoyo grade," so does not tell me much:)
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: http://anyflip.com/pbzy/iopy/
03:44 PM gregcnc: mit, interapid are only 250USD
03:46 PM LeelooMinai: sync: You did not even ask how much is off, so I assume that was just to make me sad:p
03:47 PM sync: no
03:48 PM sync: there cannot be any difference unless there is backlash in the gearing or the bearing surfaces are oversize
03:49 PM gregcnc: building precision euipment without precision tools is always tricky
03:49 PM LeelooMinai: Meh - that's a strange theory. There will always be some difference, unless you have a perfect tool that does not exist.
03:49 PM LeelooMinai: I just don't know what is "normal" for this case.
03:49 PM sync: well, the geartrain is preloaded
03:50 PM sync: and usually the play in the shaft is in the µm range
03:50 PM sync: you do notice the direction you use it
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: ...
03:50 PM sync: but the difference usually is very small
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: What do you think I use it to measure mm:)
03:50 PM LeelooMinai: The scale is in μm-s
03:51 PM sync: µm per second?
03:51 PM gregcnc: are to to guess the error?
03:51 PM LeelooMinai: What is "second"?
03:51 PM gregcnc: are we
03:51 PM sync: µms = micrometer seconds
03:52 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: Well, if you read from begenning, you will see that I asked if some play is normal, and the immediate answer was "it's broken", so don't blame me now:)
03:52 PM gregcnc: you never state the error
03:52 PM LeelooMinai: sync: μm-s, that is "micrometers"
03:52 PM gregcnc: my indicator appears to have X.xxum error when aoject is approached from different sides, is this acceptable......
03:52 PM sync: so µm
03:53 PM sync: there is no -s suffix
03:54 PM gregcnc: sounds much like CORE math homework the train leaves with 48 people 20 minutes larter is in NY city. how many apples were eaten on the train in the mean time
03:54 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: I asked general question first - a sane person would maybe answer "yes, there's usually some error" and give an example, but no, you have to blame me:)
03:55 PM gregcnc: didn't you indicator come with a manual inspection report and proper usage?
03:56 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: Aren't you in UK?
03:56 PM sync: http://sync-hv.de/~tmp/schleife_test.mp4 LeelooMinai
03:56 PM LeelooMinai: That's not a test indicator...
03:56 PM sync: just for your reference, if your indicator reads to µm, it should have sub 1µm play
03:57 PM LeelooMinai: I am talking test indicator - the one with lever.
03:57 PM sync: same principle applies
03:57 PM sync: they usually have more inherent play due to the bearing
03:57 PM sync: but if it is not broken it should read the same
03:58 PM LeelooMinai: There's no "same"...
03:58 PM sync: sometimes you see an error from side to side, but you should be able to adjust that out
03:58 PM LeelooMinai: It has a needle.
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: Your, the bus driver
03:58 PM gregcnc: lol
04:00 PM sync: you can test it LeelooMinai, use your surface plate and some gauge blocks and move them in different directions
04:01 PM * LeelooMinai sighs
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: ever search for deals on refrigeration pumps used in reclamation units?
04:02 PM LeelooMinai: sync: gregcnc is just mean, that I know, but not sure now about you:)
04:02 PM XXCoder: or 123 blocks I guess
04:02 PM sync: good
04:02 PM gregcnc: but how accurate are your blocks?
04:02 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Like from frig/freezers?
04:03 PM LeelooMinai: I don't need 123 blocks - I am already having that test indicator over round rail - I wrote it at the beginning.
04:03 PM gregcnc: send the indicator for calibration, then you will know if it's any good
04:03 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Or are you talking the pump that REFILLS the refrigrants?
04:03 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: yeah I was talking with sync though yeah you bought up topic orginially. just come in
04:03 PM * Jymmm upgrades LeelooMinai to 456 blocka
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: recovers it from a compressor and stuffs it into a tank
04:03 PM LeelooMinai: I am moving the level perpendicular to the rail axis and it deflects showing me highes curvature point - I slide it in and then out.
04:04 PM gregcnc: oops will stay out of it
04:04 PM LeelooMinai: lever*
04:04 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Yeah, no I haven't
04:04 PM gregcnc: send an invite nex ttime
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: just checking before I do
04:04 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: are yu making one?
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: if they put it into a reclamation unit it's $$
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: and it's just a pump/compressor with a manifold
04:05 PM sync: CaptHindsight: ime they are just a regular compressor
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: sync: yes
04:05 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Eh, just hit the local junk yard and pull one from a frig/freezer
04:07 PM gregcnc: i have a robinair vac pump
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: need to recompress old refrigerant
04:08 PM gregcnc: ok
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: and put it into a tank
04:09 PM sync: I find it funny that you have to recover r134a when it comes out of a refrig unit
04:09 PM sync: but air horns just expand it into the air
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tls/6134336554.html compressor, manifold, gauges with some presets for $2500 used
04:11 PM LeelooMinai: sync: I am doing this: http://i.imgur.com/UXMDUwz.png
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: oh just found one for $150
04:11 PM Deejay: gn8
04:14 PM sync: this has to produce the same value
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: I somehow don't believe that.
04:16 PM LeelooMinai: Wouldn't that break some laws of physics.
04:16 PM Jymmm: laws are meant to be broken!
04:17 PM JT-Shop: well my hopes of putting a valve on the wash tank have just been smashed... the plug is M14 x 1.75
04:17 PM Jymmm: weld in a new one
04:17 PM Jymmm: drill and retap
04:19 PM sync: LeelooMinai: the error you should have should be below the resolution of your indicator
04:19 PM sync: my µm indicator also lies
04:19 PM sync: http://sync-hv.de/~tmp/schleife_test2.mp4 see here
04:19 PM XXCoder: LeelooMinai: that kinda looks like vinyl record player lol
04:20 PM Jymmm: XXCoder: Liek you would know ;)
04:20 PM XXCoder: I do know
04:20 PM LeelooMinai: That's what I do - store heavy metal song on the rail rod and then play it out with a teest indicator as a pick up.
04:20 PM Jymmm: XXCoder: lies, all lies
04:21 PM * Jymmm lol @ LeelooMinai
04:21 PM XXCoder: lol
04:21 PM LeelooMinai: sync: That seems like a different scenario though.
04:22 PM Jymmm: LeelooMinai: You don't play banjo by ear do you?
04:22 PM LeelooMinai: Not that I know of
04:23 PM Jymmm: LeelooMinai: Okey, just checking. Thought I heard deliverance coming from your direction.
04:23 PM LeelooMinai: What deliverance... Opeth Deliverance? :)
04:24 PM Jymmm: LeelooMinai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0
04:25 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I guess that's not the deliverance I had in mind...
04:25 PM Jymmm: gotcha
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: sync: So, I went looking around, for specs on some good indicators, and look at this: http://www.ichiban.com.my/products/2664/SK-Digital-Dial-Test-Indicator
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: It's a one micron indicator and has 4 μm backlash error and 3 repeatibility
04:30 PM LeelooMinai: That's not "same" to me...
04:32 PM LeelooMinai: Same with mutitoyo: http://www.mitutoyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Dial-Test-Indicators-web.pdf
04:33 PM sync: yes, they do have relatively large values in spec, but in practice unless it is broken in your measurement mode will produce the same values
04:35 PM LeelooMinai: Right, but I don't think mine is broken - since I see 101 microns on entry and 102 microns on exit and it has 2 micron graduation
04:35 PM LeelooMinai: It's not perfect, but that's better then the specs of those expensive ones.
04:37 PM Gene_work: any ideas for Bobcad 29 post processor for LinuxCNC router
04:37 PM Gene_work: http://bobcad.com/support/post-processors/
04:37 PM LeelooMinai: The surface plate by itself is only to 2.5 microns though, so... that kind of error is kind of meaningless anyways - too small.
04:38 PM _methods: a stock fanuc post should get you going
04:39 PM _methods: generic fanuc
04:41 PM LeelooMinai: To be honest I kind of did not think that an indicator can be too precise, but this one is what I do now.
04:42 PM LeelooMinai: And it has 0.2mm range and positioning it at the right place is pretty painful.
04:43 PM LeelooMinai: Not having those micro-adjustments arms does not help either.
04:49 PM Crom: almost finished on my back seat drink holder and power port
04:51 PM Crom: would have been alot easier with a working cnc
04:56 PM Jymmm: If you wanted easy, you would have bough them and had them installed.
05:04 PM Crom: heh
05:07 PM LeelooMinai: I just got from China some positioners or what they are. Pretty cheap, but just tested them and they work well - I will use them for some experiments, but seems I can easily get 1/10th micron precision "by hand" with them.
05:09 PM LeelooMinai: I think it's part of some microscope stage (?): https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/34720106481/in/dateposted-public/
05:11 PM LeelooMinai: Of course the thread fits into 123 block "kind of". Probably it's a metric thread that happens to be close.
05:11 PM LeelooMinai: But this was just to see if they work fine.
05:12 PM LeelooMinai: I want to use them for designing my 3D probe - when doing electronics and testing the response, etc.
05:15 PM andypugh: <showing off> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/harmonic.html
05:17 PM Crom: Attemping to drill my linear shafts for the M5x0.8 screws...
05:18 PM LeelooMinai: Crom: rradially?
05:18 PM Crom: original shafts were drilled 30mm deep and tapped to 20mm deep WTF!
05:19 PM andypugh: Crom: I guess you won’t have a mill until you have drilled the shafts? But ideally you would mill the counterbores first.
05:19 PM LeelooMinai: Er, so axially - wonder why, as usually blocks and bearings are used, no?
05:19 PM Crom: not cross drilling...
05:20 PM Crom: these are the Z axis guide shafts
05:20 PM LeelooMinai: A, ok, still not sure why you need them tapped.
05:21 PM Crom: this 4.2mm twist drill should actually be a 4.3mm but that's what they sent me..
05:21 PM Crom: if they are not tappe they fall off the machine
05:22 PM LeelooMinai: Not supported?
05:22 PM Crom: there is a M5 at the top and bottom
05:23 PM Crom: they are blocks would be nicer
05:23 PM Crom: s/they are//
05:24 PM LeelooMinai: I have supported rails and they sit on aluminum supports that have holes in there... so your setup must be weird...
05:25 PM Crom: now I need some 5mm grub screws
05:25 PM Crom: yeah my 12mm shafts are un supported
05:26 PM LeelooMinai: Ordered a magnetic base with micro-adjustment, but of course a cheap one - I hope it will work, because it has some weird adjustment on the arm instead at the base.
05:27 PM Jymmm: It works
05:27 PM LeelooMinai: Looks like this: azon.ca/gp/product/B00UM6CJ2Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:27 PM LeelooMinai: Er, https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00UM6CJ2Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:28 PM Jymmm: They work, not great, but they work.
05:28 PM LeelooMinai: Well, $20 CAD - not much risk:)
05:29 PM LeelooMinai: That djustment looks like taken from some compass...
05:29 PM Crom: old shafts are 120mm long... hmmm I could use those as the spacer
05:30 PM Crom: m5 grub screw 20 or 25mm long... threaded into the shaft, then into the top of the X carriage
05:31 PM LeelooMinai: And how are you going to adjust the position of the axis with them...
05:37 PM Crom: shims
05:37 PM Tom_L: good show andypugh
05:37 PM roycroft: i want my shims
05:37 PM roycroft: they arrive tomorrow
05:37 PM roycroft: i'm ready to start using my lathe
05:37 PM roycroft: but i can't until it's leveled and set up
05:44 PM LeelooMinai: I am spending the second day just measuring stuff and clearning to turn screws here and there and tap things in places until what I see is really what I intended - "who would have thought squaring CNC up could be so complicated"
05:46 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: I would expect it to be :-)
05:47 PM LeelooMinai: You are useless for a president then:)
05:51 PM LeelooMinai: It's partly because OCD caused me to buy all the measuring tools with 1 micron resolution and now when I move a screw "OMG, the indicator changed the reading"
05:51 PM LeelooMinai: Should buy 1 mil ones and be happy and oblivious.
05:57 PM DrippityDrops1 is now known as DrippityDrops
05:59 PM jdh: yes, then buy the others
06:09 PM Crom: squaring a cnc isn't complicated... It's mind numbing boring and tedious...
06:11 PM SpeedEvil: If it can be squared
06:18 PM LeelooMinai: You can always square it better - just a matter of measurement precision:)
06:21 PM SpeedEvil: I was meaning it's complicated if it's bent
06:28 PM LeelooMinai: What is bent can be unbent!
06:29 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, time for a break and Robot Wars 5
06:31 PM LeelooMinai: One of my YouTube recommendations: http://i.imgur.com/ldDVTCC.png
06:31 PM LeelooMinai: Almost want to click it.
06:34 PM Vitran: I was put on a job that I don't know how to feel about it. The job is to get the Hardinge LinuxCNC to working status in 4 weeks.
06:34 PM Vitran: I get company time to do it too
06:36 PM Vitran: Current status is wiring the control board
06:37 PM LeelooMinai: I guess depends if whoever estimated that 4 weeks is competent or not...
06:38 PM LeelooMinai: Or they rolled a dice:)
06:38 PM malcom2073: Heh, I declined to linuxcnc a hardinge a couple months ago, the thing was pretty physically shot though
06:38 PM Vitran: The machine worked on arrival
06:38 PM malcom2073: Interestingly enough, 4 weeks was about what I estimated to do a retrofit
06:39 PM Vitran: It was from my company old company and I had used it. The problem was when I rehooked it up it wasn't happy
06:39 PM Vitran: The second PLC board was in E-Stop mode and I was working on it from October to February on the forums to fix it
06:40 PM Vitran: It is also my first machine, so I am learning how to setup the computer side of LinuxCNC
06:40 PM Vitran: *first non stepper motor driven LinuxCNC
06:45 PM Vitran: Here is what it looks like right now http://i.imgur.com/BjnM9u0.jpg
06:45 PM malcom2073: Nice
06:46 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: Should I advertise that wire terminating system from China again? :p
06:46 PM Vitran: What one? The barrier strip? I have a massive box of them
06:48 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: E, no, I mean this one, I got addicted to it by now:) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-One-terminal-box-HSC8-6-4-6-4A-6-4B-6-6-6-6A/32803101801.html
06:48 PM LeelooMinai: I have the "hex" pattern crimper one.
06:49 PM Vitran: Looks nice
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: You put those tubular pieces on the end of the wire, crimp, and you have a perfect ending to go into those terminal blocks on controllers.
06:50 PM LeelooMinai: Without risking crashing the strands, etc.
06:50 PM Vitran: I have a pile of crimps, just on the table. I wanted to use them but they were too big for the space
06:51 PM Vitran: I spent ~$100 on getting 5 amp fuses and crimps, then realized I am using 1.2A max, the power supplies are short protected, and the crimps don't fit
06:51 PM LeelooMinai: I also tried "crimping" the plastic part - it's possible, so they can become smaller.
06:53 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: No idea about pricing for those CNC jobs - I am just a "poor hobbyist":)
06:53 PM LeelooMinai: If not China, I would probably not be able to do any CNC.
06:53 PM Vitran: Here is a dumb question I haven't figured out yet and it is giving me a bit of cold chills thinking about it. AFAIK the 7i77 has analog voltage output for the servos, but I can't find where that is selected.
06:54 PM sync: you can get them without the plastic tho
06:54 PM sync: I have the same style just from knipex, they work nice
06:55 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Hmm, I had an idea of ones having heatshrinkable collars - that would be great.
06:55 PM LeelooMinai: Must see if Chinese sell bare ones.
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: Selected? I have 7i76, but the docs must be showing which place it's at, no?
06:56 PM sync: you can also just buy them locally
06:56 PM sync: they are cheap everywhere
06:56 PM LeelooMinai: Right, at Walmart:)
06:57 PM sync: there are probably none with heatshrink
06:57 PM sync: but usually you wouldn't need it
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: From what I see, they are marked DRV0 up to 5 on the PCB.
06:59 PM Vitran: LeelooMinai: The 7i76 is for step/dir stepper motors. The 7i77 says it is for analog servo motors.... Oh dear. Am I screwed?
06:59 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, for steppers you need 7i76
06:59 PM roycroft: best to get bare crimp connectors and put your own heat shrink tubing over them when you need that
07:00 PM LeelooMinai: Right, sure
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: Well, or at least 7i76 is what I have - Mesa has so many different boards and kind of confusing site about them, so I don't know about all the possibilities.
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: They should design it in some clearer way imo...
07:01 PM LeelooMinai: First time I was shopping I spent like an hour just trying to figure out what I want:)
07:02 PM LeelooMinai: But their boards are nice.
07:02 PM Vitran: It does say six analog control of servo motors and six +-10V analog outputs.
07:02 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that's not for steppers.
07:04 PM Vitran: Found it. Six channels of +-10V analog servo interface on connector TB5
07:05 PM LeelooMinai: Vitran: http://i.imgur.com/HW8AB1k.png
07:05 PM Vitran: yep.
07:15 PM LeelooMinai: lol @ US new "budget blueprint"
07:15 PM LeelooMinai: Massacre
07:15 PM LeelooMinai: https://i.cbc.ca/1.4028005.1489697566!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/budget.jpg
07:28 PM Vitran: When defence takes up what, 70% of all the US funding, a 10% increase is everything else
07:28 PM LeelooMinai: I also read that there's extra 800 billion cut to healthcare...
07:29 PM LeelooMinai: 1.6 trillion in total
07:33 PM DrippityDrops: what is the device called which would do this conversrion; if im producing varying ac input voltage and want it regulated 120ac. is this like an ionverter or regulator power surge? variable input transformer?
07:34 PM Vitran: power stabilizer
07:34 PM DrippityDrops: thank you
07:34 PM DrippityDrops: too much terminology in this field of work
07:34 PM DrippityDrops: hard to pinpoint vocabulary
07:34 PM Vitran: I know someone who has a power stabilizer for his amplifier stack as he claims it draws too much power
07:36 PM DrippityDrops: okie another question for you then
07:36 PM Vitran: shoot
07:37 PM DrippityDrops: if I have 120ac and convert it to dc with one of these http://www.mouser.com/images/fairchildsemiconductor/images/gbpc12.jpg
07:37 PM DrippityDrops: its not going to output at 120vac is it?
07:37 PM DrippityDrops: dc*
07:38 PM DrippityDrops: its going to end up being higher or lower than 120vdc right?
07:39 PM Vitran: It will be 0-60VDC in bumps.
07:39 PM Vitran: https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Felectrosome.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FBridge-Rectifier-Input-Output-Waveforms.jpg&hash=edf134ce45e0415dbb246abbe4d6fedc
07:40 PM Vitran: But the true maximum voltage will be higher than 60V. I think it is 60*sqrt2. Peak voltage is above 120
07:41 PM DrippityDrops: well I had one hooked up yesterday and im not sure why but it kept outputting at 160vdc and I was expecting something like 60vdc or like half of the input voltage
07:42 PM DrippityDrops: is it bad or am I missing something?
07:43 PM Vitran: Thowing this out there, but if you put the AC into the DC +- lines it would have a peak DC voltage of 170 on the AC input lines
07:44 PM Vitran: (120*1.4=169.7)
07:44 PM DrippityDrops: i guess I could have but I used the notch corner of the block as dc+ and the one angular to it as the -dc
07:44 PM DrippityDrops: out of pure habit I suppose
07:45 PM * LeelooMinai scratches the head
07:45 PM Vitran: Did you check the AC converter to 240?
07:45 PM DrippityDrops: my input lines were just a 110 outlet
07:45 PM Vitran: sorry, did you check the input lines?
07:45 PM Vitran: hmmmm
07:45 PM DrippityDrops: it was just floating in the air tho
07:45 PM DrippityDrops: ungrounded with centerscrew
07:45 PM LeelooMinai: Weird - I put an indicator on the x-rail and moving the z-stage around - I get 10 microns deflection on the rail, but the z axis changes by 200...
07:45 PM DrippityDrops: I wonder if that could even matter I doubt it
07:46 PM Vitran: Can you check the rectifier? Logically something is wrong here
07:46 PM DrippityDrops: I suppose I should learn how to do such a thing
07:46 PM DrippityDrops: or just get another one since cost < time
07:47 PM Vitran: Check the diode directions with a multimeter
07:47 PM DrippityDrops: I didnt know if maybe there were rectifiers that somehow altered the output
07:47 PM DrippityDrops: yeah maybe im not getting DC on the output
07:47 PM DrippityDrops: maybe its like ac/dc
07:48 PM Vitran: They are just a square of diodes.
07:48 PM DrippityDrops: Im betting the output voltage is not truly dc
07:48 PM DrippityDrops: but actually a burnt out rectifier bleeding ac
07:48 PM Vitran: It will not be. Usually you put a capacitor on the output
07:49 PM DrippityDrops: oh, will the cap maybe regulate somehow? I was afraid to add cap because it said 100V
07:49 PM DrippityDrops: I just assumed attaching it would create some kind of EMP grenade
07:50 PM Vitran: I had a durr moment.
07:51 PM Vitran: It may not divide the power. I'm going to check again
07:51 PM DrippityDrops: no worries im no less lost than before :)
07:51 PM DrippityDrops: every other setup I had just worked so it was never an issue. but this appears to be a problem and im afraid to attache cap
07:51 PM DrippityDrops: and amp
07:52 PM DrippityDrops: it just seemed like everytime I had attached a rectifier before it cut the voltage in half when it went to DC
07:53 PM DrippityDrops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier#Voltage-multiplying_rectifiers
07:53 PM DrippityDrops: >>>
07:53 PM DrippityDrops: ???
07:54 PM Crom: yep... I'
07:54 PM Crom: m going to have to get some more Cat 6 cables
07:54 PM Crom: the Cat 5's aren't holding up to Gigglebit speeds
07:55 PM DrippityDrops: Vitran: thanks for the time spent on this I need to head to the shop and get some more done. I will get the P/N from my rectifier and do some research tonight!
07:55 PM Vitran: kk
08:15 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I have been stopped by a measurement puzzle.
08:17 PM LeelooMinai: I have surface plate on the table. z-plate rading over x-axis. And, when I measure the distance from the surface plate to the top of bottom rail, I get 10 microns, but when I measure what happens with the z plate - it moves 100 microns out of z position.
08:17 PM LeelooMinai: I even attached indicator to the plate and watched if the plate moves in respect to the bottom rail, but no...
08:18 PM LeelooMinai: Trying to think what else may be happening.
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: 2" into concrete and I hit rebar and knock all the carbide teeth off the bit
08:30 PM LeelooMinai: I am talking about those two distances measured: http://i.imgur.com/XwEUJ4S.png
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: not my day :(
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: and it was only a 2.5" dia core bit
08:30 PM LeelooMinai: The rail one is off only 10 micron off on both sides, but the plate one changes 100 microns when I move in x.
08:31 PM LeelooMinai: And, the plate does not move in respect to the rail - I verified it.
08:31 PM LeelooMinai: "How can it even be possible"
08:32 PM Crom: LeelooMinai: the rails are twisted... as you get further towards one end the Z starts leaning back or forward
08:32 PM Crom: you need another surface 90 degrees to your plate..
08:33 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I guess that makes geometric sense...
08:33 PM LeelooMinai: I have only lame carpenter square, but I guess it may be ok for just comparative test.
08:35 PM Crom: yep
08:36 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I think this may be the reason. Wonderful... Step 10: untwist the rails.
08:37 PM Crom: squaring a cnc isn't complicated... It's mind numbing boring and tedious...
08:39 PM LeelooMinai: Well, each one is build differently and has different adjustments, etc. At least home built ones usually, so, it's not really that easy for me - especially since I probably don't have all the tools that would work best for this.
08:39 PM LeelooMinai: So for example, making two rails planar is a big problem.
08:40 PM LeelooMinai: I don't even have a good plan of assuring that.
08:45 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe I can MacGyver some method.
08:46 PM LeelooMinai: Like attach an indicator to the top of that carpenter square.
08:47 PM LeelooMinai: If I lay the short edge on the surface plate and touch one of the rails with the other...
08:47 PM Crom: grrr... really need some cat 6 cables
08:48 PM LeelooMinai: But if they are twisted on one side it will touch one, on the other other, so fail:/\
08:49 PM Crom: feeler gauges?
08:49 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, so maybe indirect approach - just manipulate the screw that will move the rail and see how it affects the reading.
08:50 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I have feeler gauge somewhere - I knew one day they will be useful!
08:50 PM * LeelooMinai looks around the room
08:50 PM LeelooMinai: "somewhere"
08:51 PM Crom: on my 3040 the axis are perpendicular to each other, good enough...
08:53 PM Crom: less than a degree angle wise...
08:54 PM LeelooMinai: micro-degree? :)
08:54 PM Crom: thinking about drilling my linear shafts off center a bit so I can use it as an encentric
08:54 PM Crom: umm... probably less the 7/8 of a degree
08:55 PM LeelooMinai: That sounds... deadly?
08:55 PM Crom: it works good enough right now...
08:56 PM LeelooMinai: I mean one degree will translate to something pretty bad even over 10mm
08:56 PM Crom: when I get a real mill then I'll worry about microdegrees
08:57 PM Crom: with a 6mm endmill... i was getting 2mm deflection.... not really worried about it
08:58 PM LeelooMinai: lol, nice trolling:p
09:04 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, my thinnest gauge is 6 micron and I cannot even put it there - weird.
09:04 PM LeelooMinai: Somehow I find it unlikely that a carpenter squere and my setup is that good.
09:04 PM * Jymmm cuts LeelooMinai in half and now it's only 3micron!
09:05 PM Jymmm: ...thick!
09:06 PM gregcnc: 6 micron feeler?
09:06 PM Crom: can you turn the square around and measure using the back edge so if there is lean it's going the other way
09:08 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, success - I detected 11 micron gap.
09:08 PM SpeedEvil: Put your feeler guage in it
09:08 PM Crom: ahhh... get it down to 5.5microns each side
09:09 PM Crom: err tight 6micron each way
09:09 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: Well, is that unusual?
09:09 PM LeelooMinai: SpeedEvil: Right, not that easy - would need to put it under the rail:) I just need to adjust the beams under the rails.
09:10 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, maybe I cannot read what's on those feelers. Chinese technology, but they have something lasered or whatever on them.
09:12 PM gregcnc: the smallest I have is 40 micron, so you must have sprung for the super expensive set this time
09:12 PM LeelooMinai: Right, probably a reading fail on my part.
09:12 PM gregcnc: http://www.jus-rite.com/howbigisamicron.html
09:13 PM malcom2073: Do you maybe mean mil instead of micron?
09:13 PM LeelooMinai: Let me see: .004 .006 .102 .152 on the smallest - that looks like range in mils and microns, so, oops
09:13 PM LeelooMinai: I better measure it to see.
09:14 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: I know what microns is, just never really used that feeler gauge - it's the first time.
09:15 PM LeelooMinai: Right, the micrometer tells me 106 microns
09:16 PM LeelooMinai: So 4 mil, sounds about right, but I wonder why they have that 152 there.
09:16 PM LeelooMinai: It's a bit big span for a range, no?
09:17 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm...
09:17 PM LeelooMinai: Maybe it's for the thick part?
09:18 PM LeelooMinai: Aha... the thick body has 151 microns...
09:18 PM gregcnc: you have tapered thickness gauges
09:18 PM LeelooMinai: well, the end seems to be ground on 1 cm length or so.
09:18 PM CaptHindsight: 6 micron feeler gauge would have to be made of graphene composite or it would tear or crumple too easily
09:19 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I did not really analyze it, just looked at 11 and made wrong assumption.
09:19 PM LeelooMinai: But, at least I know now about those gauges.
09:19 PM gregcnc: well 6 micron stuck out so I said something, hopefully it wasn't mean
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: heartless batard
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: Bâtard, a type of bread similar to baguette
09:21 PM LeelooMinai: Well, that took long, but at least I traced from measurements to the reason, so it was a good experience.
09:22 PM LeelooMinai: On the other hand, for cheap gauges from China, they are not bad - seem only few microns off.
09:24 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I wonder how square is that carpenter square. It's a steel one, some reasonable brand - I guess they may be pretty accurate, no? I mean they probably have some machines that stamp maybe from some form?
09:28 PM Jymmm: LeelooMinai: Just reverse it to see how square it is
09:29 PM Jymmm: LeelooMinai: That's also how you can check a level too
09:30 PM LeelooMinai: Right, I do that with levels
09:34 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, has Johnson USA on it CS2 - I wonder if that's some accuracy standard
09:34 PM LeelooMinai: E, seems like model only
09:35 PM LeelooMinai: I have a machinist square, but it's tiny - 4 inches I think
09:37 PM LeelooMinai: Do they make a monster versions, like with straight edges?
09:38 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I see largest to be 12 inches or so, so maybe other techniques can be used at larger distances.
09:40 PM roycroft: teh ebay wants way too much money for lathe dogs
09:40 PM roycroft: and i need some
09:40 PM roycroft: i think i'll make one for my most immediate need
09:41 PM roycroft: but i really like the tear-shaped cast iron ones
09:41 PM roycroft: i like how they look and i like how they work
09:41 PM Crom: roycroft: make you own... big bolts + nut and some decent bar or shafting... and weld away...
09:41 PM * roycroft probably needs to go to more garage/estate sales
09:42 PM roycroft: i can make them with two rectangular bars, cutting v notches in the center of each, and with a bolt on either side
09:42 PM roycroft: and a bolt going perpendicular to the bars going through the end of one
09:42 PM roycroft: that's what i'll do immediately
09:43 PM roycroft: but i want a nice set of them for general use
09:43 PM roycroft: and i think i'm going to need to make a dog driver plate for my lathe eventually
09:43 PM roycroft: so another big piece to turn
09:44 PM Crom: my grandpa's were all shop made.... some pretty, some not
09:44 PM roycroft: oh well, making tools and jigs is a great way to hone one's skills
09:44 PM dioz: sup roycroft ?
09:44 PM Crom: they all got sold grrr
09:44 PM roycroft: dinner, soon
09:44 PM dioz: wanna know what i just did?
09:45 PM roycroft: did you make peace in the middle east?
09:45 PM Crom: did you get a piece of middle east?
09:45 PM dioz: making stacked gore elbows with sheet metal
09:45 PM roycroft: i just did!
09:45 PM roycroft: i got a noga indicator holder, made in israel
09:45 PM dioz: i love me some line development
09:45 PM dioz: roycroft: you good at all with freecad?
09:45 PM roycroft: gore elbows?
09:46 PM dioz: stacked gore elbows
09:46 PM Crom: I'm been making Cossack jackets last 4 days... 360 degree gored peplums...
09:46 PM dioz: like... elbows for round duct
09:46 PM roycroft: i don't know what freecad is
09:46 PM roycroft: i use autocad and solidworks
09:46 PM roycroft: mostly autocad
09:46 PM dioz: yah those are expenaive though
09:46 PM roycroft: although i should mostly use solidworks
09:46 PM roycroft: yes
09:46 PM roycroft: i needed them for work
09:46 PM roycroft: and work paid for them
09:46 PM roycroft: so i'm fortunate there
09:46 PM dioz: well gloat more why don't you
09:46 PM dioz: gloater
09:47 PM roycroft: but yeah, several thousands of dollars each
09:47 PM roycroft: i have old versions
09:47 PM roycroft: work did not pay for support
09:47 PM roycroft: and i don't need them so much for work any more
09:47 PM dioz: so yah i want freecad
09:47 PM dioz: cuz... free
09:47 PM roycroft: so i use what i have
09:47 PM dioz: brb
09:47 PM roycroft: and i've always run them in virtual machines, because i'm not a windows person
09:48 PM roycroft: so even if the old versions don't run on new versions of windows, i can keep running the vms with the old versions of windows
09:48 PM roycroft: and i think it should be illegal to put a windows machine on the internet, so i don't worry about ransomware or other malware
09:49 PM * roycroft does not think he was gloating, and if it was perceived that he was, he apologises
09:50 PM LeelooMinai: I have one of similar, but longer, and of course chinese:) http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/A-0AAOSwKytZI5c0/s-l1600.jpg
09:50 PM roycroft: time to put the prawns on the barbie
09:50 PM LeelooMinai: I am thinking of using the adjustable part and put it against my small machinist square to "calibrate" right angle on it.
09:51 PM roycroft: how accurate do you need to be?
09:51 PM Crom: roycroft: I'm with you there... I really need to gt VMS running on my machines
09:51 PM roycroft: you can probably get it to within 0.003" or so doing that, assuming your machinist square is pretty square
09:51 PM LeelooMinai: I am thinking 10 microns or half a mil maybe?
09:52 PM roycroft: that's fairly ambitious
09:52 PM LeelooMinai: Well, it's from KBC - I don't think they sell non-square machinist squares
09:52 PM roycroft: for an adjustable square
09:53 PM LeelooMinai: Well, no, my small square is 4 inch machinist square. I want to use it to calibrate the adjustable one to 90 deg.
09:53 PM roycroft: anyway, barbie time
09:53 PM roycroft: don't take this wrong
09:53 PM roycroft: but the prawns are more attractive than this channel right now :)
09:54 PM LeelooMinai: Barbie, prawns, ok, fine - no idea what it means, but ok:p
10:19 PM Crom: porky chops and falafuls
10:20 PM Crom: barbie == charcol or propane grill, prawns -- shirpish creature
10:20 PM Crom: shrimpish
10:36 PM Crom: drill bit lasted 1 hole...
10:44 PM Crom: heh walmart.com $3.26 + $5 shipping https://www.walmart.com/ip/CHICAGO-LATROBE-46466-Jobber-Bit-4-30mm-Cobalt-Steel/485393616
10:49 PM Crom: I'll see if I can sharpen it...
11:03 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, my cobalt drills do not look like that - they are goled-ish
11:03 PM LeelooMinai: golden-ish
11:08 PM tiwake: LeelooMinai: its just a coating, on cobalt drills it does not matter unless its TiN or similar
11:19 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, thought that's the natural color of that alloy or something.
11:19 PM Crom: hss-co drills are so much more durable
11:20 PM tiwake: LeelooMinai: no, the natural color is that dull gray, unless its a good surface grind with really fine grit
11:20 PM tiwake: (or a proper polish, as it polishes nicely too)
11:29 PM Gene_home: XXCoder: Yo!
11:32 PM dioz: roycroft gimme a autocad and solidworks license
11:33 PM tiwake: dioz: https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Download
11:34 PM LeelooMinai: Or: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview