#linuxcnc Logs
May 22 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:04 AM roycroft: i'm thinking i should use a torque wrench to tighten the mounting bolts when leveling the lathe
12:06 AM roycroft: the torque setting should not matter too much
12:06 AM roycroft: but it would probably work better if i torqued it the same every time
12:06 AM Crom: 7" arm is freaking short... my Juki is 10" from needle to the machine
12:06 AM Crom: heh... Family Sew FS188ZZ is the same as a SailRite and it's $750 cheaper too
12:06 AM roycroft: i think i can find a sewing machine for $800 if i'm patient
12:06 AM roycroft: but i want it for $300
12:06 AM roycroft: so i guess i have to be extremely patient
12:09 AM roycroft: i want better than 4 stitches/inch
12:09 AM Crom: vs a new juki DNU1541S $1470 https://www.acesewing.com/JUKI-DNU-1541S-1-needle-Unison-feed-Lockstitch-M-p/sku16805.htm
12:09 AM roycroft: 8 stitches/inch would be a lot better
12:10 AM Crom: It'll do 8stitch per inch.. it won't do 3 stitch per inch
12:10 AM roycroft: i'm looking at a listing for it on ebay that says it does up to 4spi
12:11 AM roycroft: that's the largest value?
12:11 AM Crom: roycroft: in length of stitch
12:12 AM Crom: it'll do 50 stitches per inch... it won't do 3 SPI
12:12 AM roycroft: ok, that's fine
12:17 AM Crom: my juki DDL-5550 does up to a 5.5mm stitch... 4SPI is 6.35mm stitch length
12:17 AM Crom: I usually keep it around 2.5mm or around 10SPI
12:20 AM Crom: save up and get a good machine... $499 + free shipping.. taiwanese and factory QC'd http://www.allbrands.com/products/6568-reliable-barracuda-200zw-replaces-2000u33-portable
12:21 AM roycroft: it's not so much a matter of saving up as cost justification
12:21 AM roycroft: i won't use it that much
12:21 AM roycroft: and so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on it
12:23 AM Crom: I have $250 in the DDL-5550, and $350 Juki MO-2516 5 thread serger
12:23 AM Crom: actually up to $450 now on the Juki since I replaced the old school motor
12:24 AM Crom: ddl-5550 straight stitch
12:29 AM Crom: I gotta time the serger... it's cutting threads
12:30 AM LeelooMinai: Is "straight edge" the name for long parallel-like tool or some other name?
12:31 AM XXCoder: is it followed by "razor"?
12:31 AM XXCoder: guess not
12:31 AM roycroft: it's generally a long ruler-like piece of metal that's very straight
12:31 AM Crom: straight has one side straight, may or may not be parallel to the other side
12:31 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, so what is a name of a pralallel, but 2 feet long?
12:31 AM roycroft: really long ones sometimes are arch shaped
12:32 AM Crom: parallel thats 2' long
12:32 AM Crom: arched shaped are for straight edges not parallels
12:33 AM LeelooMinai: straight edge keeps ending with some carperter rulers:)
12:33 AM roycroft: i have a 24" starrett straight edge that's straight to 0.001"/foot and parallel to 0.001"/foot
12:33 AM Crom: nyc cnc made some 2' cast iron parallels...
12:34 AM Crom: cast iron parallel 2 foot 500mm
12:34 AM Crom: ack.. wrong machine
12:37 AM Crom: $2000 a set
12:37 AM Crom: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/86433547
12:37 AM LeelooMinai: lol, ok
12:37 AM Crom: oh those are granite
12:38 AM Crom: 1 foot for $196 each steel
12:39 AM LeelooMinai: I found some, but 1 mil over 2 feet: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,240,45313&p=56676
12:40 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, 24" starret one is $124 CAD
12:41 AM LeelooMinai: 2/tens over a foot
12:41 AM roycroft: i don't think mine's that accurate
12:41 AM * roycroft checks
12:41 AM LeelooMinai: So 1 dude over two feet - not bad
12:44 AM Crom: hmm 24" is mostly in branite
12:44 AM Crom: granite
12:45 AM roycroft: oh nice
12:45 AM roycroft: yes, it is 0.0002"/ft
12:45 AM roycroft: i thought it was way less accurate than that
12:47 AM Crom: hmm grade AA $1903 each 24" x 2" x 4" granite parallel laboratory grade
12:48 AM LeelooMinai: They had to add that $3 there, didn't they.
12:48 AM roycroft: i think the straightedge i have is fine
12:48 AM Crom: +- .000037
12:48 AM roycroft: and it's about $1803 less expensive than that other one
12:49 AM Crom: 37 millionth
12:49 AM LeelooMinai: Hmm, not even sure if I can use one edge like that - as I recall from some video usually they they use 2 to align pairs of axis.
12:50 AM LeelooMinai: Er, pairs of rails.
12:50 AM Crom: 4' x 8' x 1' +/- 0.00025 surface plate 5920 pounds -- almost 3 tons
12:52 AM LeelooMinai: Those buggers are heavy. I have a small tiny one for $50 from that LeeValley place - I think it's 12 by 18 by 2 or 3 - and when I carry it I can really feel it.
12:52 AM Crom: wow that's only $5312 plus shipping
12:52 AM LeelooMinai: $50 surface plate:) http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32526&cat=1,43513,51657
12:52 AM Crom: 12x18x3 is 81 pounds
12:53 AM LeelooMinai: A, it's 9 by 12 even
12:54 AM LeelooMinai: But 2.5 microns - pretty good.
12:54 AM XXCoder: .0001" not too bad
12:54 AM LeelooMinai: Yes, a good value - can be used for lots of things by a hobbiest.
12:54 AM Crom: nice... I could use one of those... to check all my planes and 1-2-3 blocks
12:56 AM LeelooMinai: Hobbyist
12:56 AM LeelooMinai: Hobbit
12:58 AM XXCoder: hobbies is a hobbit
12:59 AM Crom: hmm I only have a 10" throat on my sewing machine... X is limited to 10" Y could go more
01:01 AM Crom: 250mm x 600mm 10" x 24"
01:15 AM SpeedEvil: If you actually mean a sewing machine - fabric folds
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
01:25 AM XXCoder: yo
01:26 AM IchGucksLive: heavy mashinery this morning
01:27 AM IchGucksLive: 3tons plus
01:28 AM IchGucksLive: in the News DT did his second deal as promised to his friends 100BIl usd wepons sold of his FL golf Friend
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: so the coal guy and the weapon guy is amused 3 more to go
01:29 AM IchGucksLive: go is the point till later keep on nonbitbreaking
01:43 AM Loetmichel: Mornin'. $me just donned the t-shirt with the writing "May the coffee be strong and the Monday short!"... lets seee if the Boss gets a hint when he sees one in a few minutes ;)
01:56 AM roycroft: monday next is a holiday in the us
01:57 AM Loetmichel: thursday is here (so i take the friday off)
01:57 AM * roycroft likes holidays
01:57 AM roycroft: time i can spend in the shop or garden :)
01:58 AM Loetmichel: hmm, i should start running now, had to be at the company half an hour ago ;)
02:15 AM Deejay: moin
04:42 AM IchGucksLive: hi
04:43 AM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: still on
04:44 AM XXCoder: hey
04:45 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: howto drill into a concreteCFK plate on the roof
04:45 AM IchGucksLive: my accudrill is not gone make it thrue
04:45 AM XXCoder: that i dont know
04:45 AM IchGucksLive: hard stuf wrong tool
04:46 AM archivist_herron: an sds pneumatic hammer drill
04:46 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: todays work http://www.garagendach-abdichten.de/faserzement-abdichten/faserzement-eternit-sanieren.php
04:46 AM IchGucksLive: i dont think a hammer will do it
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: cause the roof might break
04:47 AM XXCoder: diamond grinder?
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: i try it with a ceramic drill
04:48 AM IchGucksLive: or maybe a glas drill
04:49 AM IchGucksLive: 20 min we will see if the accu is charged
04:49 AM IchGucksLive: i hope this will be for my life the last walk on the roof
04:49 AM IchGucksLive: # all plates tighten
04:50 AM IchGucksLive: ok till later
05:27 AM jthornton: morning
05:27 AM XXCoder: yo
05:34 AM Tom_itx: hey
06:17 AM gcardinal: Installed tormach pathpilot on my controller this weekend - GUI was quite cool
06:19 AM gcardinal: not going to use it - but was interesting to see how it actually is
06:19 AM gcardinal: and I think I would buy a gui of this quality if it was available
06:20 AM gcardinal: and open source
06:25 AM archivist_herron: there is a gui addon see https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM
06:27 AM gcardinal: archivist_herron yes have seen it - cam is nice - but the gui it self for the main app isnt as smooth
06:29 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7k8oaLa-7k
06:33 AM XXCoder: fancy
06:35 AM jthornton: now I won't forget to close the door at night... but mainly so it opens on time while I'm gone
06:37 AM gcardinal: jthornton very cool
06:37 AM jthornton: thanks, I was struggling with an all wood version till I spied the two 2020 rails
06:38 AM XXCoder: 2020 is accurate enough definitely for that use
06:38 AM XXCoder: makes for nice slider sides
06:38 AM gcardinal: and working with 2020 especially from openbuilds is really easy and cheap
09:33 AM Jymmm: Bunny Stampede https://g.redditmedia.com/n79VerTIdnIF5thyTeExdiapvxzzL7DJlWgbQDEQJcA.gif?w=720&fm=mp4&mp4-fragmented=false&s=f2d6879cc74fbb0193f8a3147f0f41ec
10:22 AM thuwrx10: Does LinuxCNC support ARM now?
10:40 AM cradek: I know it runs on some ARMs
10:40 AM cradek: looks like buildbot even builds some arm packages: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
10:40 AM cradek: I don't know any details
10:42 AM mr_boo: i've managed to install linuxcnc on an old computer now and connected it to my wire-winder
10:43 AM mr_boo: the winder looks like this https://imagebin.ca/v/3NM7JQBhXZyP
10:44 AM mr_boo: for synchronization purposes the bobbin is chosen as a fake "x-axis" and the wire guide is y-axis
10:46 AM mr_boo: can i make the x-axis go continiously without deaccelerating while the guide goes back and forth?
10:56 AM cradek: probably the usual blending will give you that behavior
10:56 AM cradek: or close to it
10:57 AM mr_boo: last time i used this machine about ten years ago then every new layer of wire required the x-axis to stop
10:58 AM cradek: linuxcnc doesn't stop at the end of lines, it blends
10:58 AM mr_boo: ah
10:59 AM mr_boo: that behaviour is probably still suboptimal for this application
10:59 AM gregcnc: you're still limited by the stepper acceleration
11:00 AM mr_boo: yes but i think the y-axis can change direction at once
11:00 AM mr_boo: in this setup
11:00 AM mr_boo: no parts in this setup has any mass inertia
11:00 AM gregcnc: so x was a spindle and it had to stop?
11:00 AM mr_boo: back then yes
11:01 AM gregcnc: how was the code written?
11:01 AM mr_boo: i used emc back then
11:01 AM mr_boo: don't remember how i set things up
11:01 AM cradek: you could do your own motion with hal only, for example hook siggen -> stepgen
11:02 AM cradek: siggen can generate sine or triangle
11:02 AM cradek: (but using gcode is probably a lot easier)
11:02 AM mr_boo: does that use g-code commands?
11:02 AM gregcnc: if x continues in the same direction these issues should be negligible, even back then i would think
11:02 AM mr_boo: most of all it made the winding process much slower
11:06 AM mr_boo: i think i'll go for g-code then
11:38 AM roycroft: i need to make a radius turner, and i'm not sure what design will work best for me
11:38 AM gregcnc: cnc?
11:38 AM roycroft: no
11:38 AM roycroft: if it were cnc it would just be some gcode and the right tooling
11:40 AM roycroft: it will be a single point tool - some of the stuff i want to turn is way too big to even think about form tools
11:41 AM roycroft: if anyone has an opinion on a design that works well i'd love to hear it
11:43 AM archivist: for brass ball turning an open tube with a square edge on a rest
11:44 AM gregcnc: simple way is probably mounting a boring head in a spindle
11:44 AM archivist: other way is a radius tool on a peg
11:44 AM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MTcx0gjfgw
11:45 AM gregcnc: http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T24914.html
11:46 AM roycroft: i've seen the boring head method
11:46 AM roycroft: that might be the simplest way to do it
11:46 AM archivist: there is a horizontal version
11:47 AM archivist: no need for a boring head then
11:47 AM roycroft: and i have a boring head for my milling machine
11:47 AM roycroft: i could remove the r8 arbor and use a cylindrical arbor
11:48 AM LeelooMinai: jthornton: I knew that - it looks exactly like a guillotine - you chicken murderer! :p
11:48 AM gregcnc: chicken is tasty
11:48 AM roycroft: some of the turning would be steel, some brass, some plastic
11:49 AM LeelooMinai: Right, chicken - good
11:49 AM archivist: last time I did a ball I did it in two halves
11:49 AM roycroft: i probably won't be turning many complete balls
11:49 AM roycroft: which is why i said "radius turner" in the first place
11:49 AM roycroft: mostly i'll be making knobs that will have radiused ends
11:49 AM archivist: I worked to a former with a graver
11:53 AM archivist: was not easy to take a nice image of http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=5942&subject=22729
11:59 AM LeelooMinai: lol @ the Dutch king - for 20 years he was also "secretly" piloting KLM airline planes.
11:59 AM LeelooMinai: Pretty strange to have a king as the pilot:p
12:00 PM * Loetmichel just nearly nodded off on the commute home. Lucily the Opel Omega has quite a beefy sound system. 13:28 of "yello the race" at "all knobs on eleven" and the drowsiness is "blown away" ;)
12:00 PM roycroft: well, klm are known as the "royal dutch airline"
12:01 PM roycroft: we can take their slogan literally
12:28 PM LeelooMinai: KBC has promotiion and I am still pondering if I want to spend $100 for a straight edge. Do you pepople find those things useful for many things or you use them only occasionally?
12:29 PM jdh: you should hand scrape 3 of them
12:29 PM LeelooMinai: Does not that imply having big surface plate?
12:29 PM LeelooMinai: Because I have only a baby 9x12 one
12:30 PM jdh: afaik, no. that's why you make 3
12:31 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but that was not my question really:)
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
12:31 PM LeelooMinai: "Maybe I should just buy a big ruler"
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: 300 mm
12:32 PM jdh: of course not. the rule is to offer a completely different idea that doesn't quite solve the problem
12:33 PM LeelooMinai: I have been on IRC far too long - I know all the tricks:)
12:37 PM sync: I have one, I almost never use it
12:39 PM LeelooMinai: I was thinking about the rail blocks, you know the usual Chinese ones, and those two grub screws they have again, one on top, and one one side. Since I took one block apart and realized they are for adjustment, and not for lubrication, I started to wonder - is there some knowledge about how to "operate" them? I just made them as tight as I could withhout having it affecting the smoothness of the motion. You think that's all to it?
12:41 PM LeelooMinai: I also noticed that the bearing part itself has a cavity on the top that matches the top grub screw - so it would suggest that maybe one is supposed to use the top grup screw for alignment by tightening it a lot, and then backing off or something like that.
12:42 PM LeelooMinai: But I cannot find any info on how to deal with all of those adjustments.
12:42 PM sync: it's a stupid design overall
12:43 PM LeelooMinai: I noticed that some blocks do not even have those grub screws. Well, most from China have though.
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: what mashine are you on to build
12:44 PM LeelooMinai: To be clear, I am talking about this: http://i.imgur.com/48CGTkE.png
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: oh TBR shown and SBR delived china does kow hor to tread
12:45 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: I already built one - just making some re-aligments after my stepper "crashed" z-axis
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: that is good
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: renewing things best you can do
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: is there ballscrew design
12:46 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, 16mm ballscrews, but 20mm supported rails
12:47 PM sync: the idea is that you can take the slack out with those, but in reality you just make it worse
12:47 PM LeelooMinai: But I like to know a reason for everything, so things like those grub screws bug me and there are really no "instructions" on any of those parts:)
12:47 PM sync: as now the ball cage can rock
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: 20mm rails are good to go
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: what Y distance is the bar
12:48 PM LeelooMinai: sync: Well, that I tried - I mean with all of them off, sometimes I could rock the block a bit, but I could eliminate that with the side one.
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: from rail to rail
12:49 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: I have a fixed gantry - they bed moves in Y direction, the z-stage in X direction.
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: ok
12:51 PM sync: LeelooMinai: if you tighten the screws you will be able to rock the block around the scres acting as a pivot
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: if you can pay for it go for HWIN
12:51 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: It is built like that: http://i.imgur.com/3fAG9IG.png
12:52 PM LeelooMinai: HWIN?
12:52 PM gregcnc: ball linear guides
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: on that setup you can also ove standar to not wasting mashine space
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: just rig the Side posts with 90deg heavy furnigers
12:53 PM sync: yeah, I would change it to regular linear rails
12:54 PM LeelooMinai: Wait, why is everyone trying to change my rails suddenly? :)
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: and on below table servace rail mount you can win a Y distance increse on 30% with no precision loss
12:54 PM LeelooMinai: I was only musing about block adjustments...
12:54 PM * LeelooMinai looks around thinking "what is happening..."
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: get the brest out of it
12:55 PM * LeelooMinai looks suspiciously at IchGucksLive
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: adjusting is triggy as they like tro stall on tiny backforward moves
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: designed by the lcnc group https://www.sorotec.de/shop/CNC-Portalfraesen/
12:56 PM LeelooMinai: Right, well, ok, maybe in the future, but you know, this is my "bootstrap" CNC, that was barely able to put together with simple tools I had, and I need it working to self-improve itself in the future.,
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: wood CNC 1 week to go
12:57 PM LeelooMinai: Then I can CNC better mounts, extra features, etc. I hope
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: the next one is always the better one
12:58 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, but to summarize, the grub screws are there for in theory reducing play.
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: but most its only bigger
12:59 PM LeelooMinai: to reduce play*
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: yes
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: the bearing is not spring it will tighten not loose
12:59 PM djdelorie: wow, steppers are a lot heavier than servos...
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: djdelorie: but cheeper
01:00 PM djdelorie: yeah, I got my box of option #2 today, it was the fastest and cheapest way to get my machine running again while I work on option #4
01:01 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: Well, I don't know - the bearing itself is a tube shape that is split - I was thinking that those grub screws may be able to change the shape of the circular cross-section - it's a possibility.
01:02 PM LeelooMinai: I mean if you squeeze a tube from a side it will become a bit oval.
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: go for it you need to make the same expiriance as we all did
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: are there 3,4,5 ball lanes in
01:02 PM LeelooMinai: 4
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: so it will clamp better on tighten
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: on your design it is always better till your axis is not moving on stepper power
01:03 PM LeelooMinai: Well, seems that tightening to much seizes the block, so it does something - but not sure if it makes the bearing change the shape or just moves it in the block.
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: it will tighten only the bearing
01:04 PM LeelooMinai: Since the bearing tube is split, I bet it changes shape too under force from side.
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: there are all like C7 so you are in 0,05mm to go for press
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: if you have a mesure wrench
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: use it to tighten all 4 bearings the same value
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: Torque wrench?
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: yes
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: I do, but I don't think it will work on grub screws:)
01:06 PM LeelooMinai: I mean it's for not that tiny forces - more like 5-30Nm
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: there shoudt be M5 inside a SBR20
01:07 PM LeelooMinai: Not that I have seen.
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: does it only have 1 on a block
01:07 PM LeelooMinai: There are 4 M6 but that's for the bed.
01:08 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: Mine have 2 small grub screws, no M5
01:08 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: Kind of like this one: http://i.imgur.com/48CGTkE.png
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: the grub screw is M5
01:09 PM LeelooMinai: You have too much faith in Chinese parts - some of them even have mixed sizes of those grub screws - one is smaller, one bigger:)
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: the smaler one is for grease as there are bearing types you can greace
01:10 PM LeelooMinai: Still, I think if I applied 5Nm to those screws, I would just seiz the block in place.
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: and all blocks are standard ISO
01:11 PM LeelooMinai: Here comes lubrication theory again...
01:11 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: I took the bearing off - did not see any holes on it for grease, but maybe that's just Chinese doing weird things.
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: phipli: did you register as last change in UK today
01:12 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: Which port is usually for grease and which one for adjustment?
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: the upper one is for opening and the side one for close
01:13 PM LeelooMinai: What does that mean? Opening and closing what?
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: be aware the bearing is 0,2mm steel not a massive block you can easy break them
01:14 PM LeelooMinai: Well, if I smashed them with a hammer sure:)
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: no it buckels inside
01:14 PM mr_boo: where can i foudn a good tutorial how to make a design in linuxcnc?
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: Make a design?
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: mr_boo: LCNC is a controler not a designer
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: It's not a CAD:)
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: I recommend you install Fusion 360 for design - it is CAD/CAM
01:15 PM mr_boo: so if i want to do something else than the "linuxcnc" logo that comes with the program i must do that in g-code?
01:15 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: Plenty of tutorials for Fusion 360 on youtube.
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: mr_boo: features
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: features
01:16 PM the_wench: NativeCAM https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM
01:16 PM mr_boo: in fact i don't own a cnc mill or lathe
01:16 PM mr_boo: but my homemade cnc wire winder
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: AH ok
01:16 PM mr_boo: maybe cad/cam is a bit overkill for that
01:16 PM LeelooMinai: Come on - NativeCAM is not for design - it's more for ad-hoc stuff.
01:16 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: No, learn it - it's a good investments imo for the future.
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: the freecad is non system related as fusion
01:17 PM LeelooMinai: Even if you don't do CNC - any time you need to design something in 3D, simulate some motion, whatever - even make a model of your house in 3D, you will have a good tool.
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: and on 2D go for qcad
01:17 PM mr_boo: intresting
01:18 PM mr_boo: but i can write my own g-code in linuxcnc right?
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: yes
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: here is my youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
01:18 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: FreeCAD is a noble effort, but in terms of usability and a chance somone new will not jump out of a windows the first day, Fusion 360 is miles ahead:)
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: LeelooMinai: but will kill you on more use then hobby
01:19 PM mr_boo: thanks guys
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: NP
01:19 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: No, why would you think so?
01:19 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: say what? Fusion360 si from autodesk, the company that made autocad... somewht logical that they have a BIT more manpower than an open source project
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: in education i reatched 100 decines 1 Month and it got off
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: please PAY the Education licence on use NO More Access
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: and they store the IP
01:20 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Yes... it is. But not sure what is that about - did I write that Fusion is from company that has 1 person there? :)
01:21 PM Loetmichel: no, but you compared F360 to Freecad, which is a pretty small "no budget" OSS effort
01:21 PM LeelooMinai: IchGucksLive: Not sure what's that about, but Fusion 360 is free unless one makes 100k per year of it or more last time I chacked.
01:22 PM Loetmichel: not really strange that the big company has the better product (yet)
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: im off GN8 its late and im old
01:22 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: ... no, I just wrote that it's far more usable for a novice, and yes, that involves comparison, but so what:)
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: bones on the roof today fixing cracks
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: Bye
01:23 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: My point was only that if I was new, I would choose Fusion over FreeCAD. Well, even if I was not new, I would.
01:23 PM Loetmichel: yeah, no offense. it just sounded like you wanted to diss Freecad
01:24 PM LeelooMinai: That's not fair - I would be dishonest if I told someone that FreeCAD is the best way to go.
01:25 PM Loetmichel: and didnt see the disadvantages of f360 when it comes to "oh, that seems to work for a company... now i have 101k per year from it... so all my designs so far are useless or i have to pay a hefty yearly amount"
01:25 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo did not seem in danger of that to me:)
01:25 PM TurBoss: Freecad user here , even at work, they told me , if you do the work doesn't matter how
01:26 PM TurBoss: I have to say that are very simple jobs
01:26 PM Loetmichel: i even have it on my company computer... and no, we dont make more than 100k with it... so far we dont even make a single buck because i am SO fixed in my corelDraw 8 routine that i cant wrap my head around F360s workflow
01:27 PM LeelooMinai: I like good open source software, and use some, but no one will tell me that FreeCAD is even close to something like Fusion360 in usability, feastures, etc. - which are kind of important for the first experience.
01:28 PM Loetmichel: sometimes its more important for a newb to have a LESS feature rich product at the beginning...
01:28 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Well, that's "weird" - what do you mean... CorelDraw is not even a tool for any 3D CAD design...
01:28 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: yeah, thats why i do all my designs in 2d and "Fold" them in my head
01:29 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: It's not about that - it's about clarity of using features. There may be a lot, as long as everything is logical, consistent, intuitive, has help, etc.
01:29 PM Loetmichel: yeah, what i meant is a "simple inteface" and short learn process
01:29 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: lol, I wish O could design my CNC from a sheet of something and then fold it like a origami:)
01:30 PM Loetmichel: which is IMHO more important than any feature-bloat.
01:30 PM LeelooMinai: an origami even
01:30 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: you kind of can...
01:31 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- that thing is made (by me) entirely of 21mm thick marine plywood.
01:31 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: I understand your way of thinking, but seriously - Fusion 360 is pretty nice and evolves fast. It's pretty balanced imo, no feature bloat.
01:32 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: You realize that you are talking about a tool that is in itself feature bloat, like CorelDraw, and not even created for the purpose you use it for and argue against a tool that is a perfect CAD + CAM tool to use when targeting linuxcnc?
01:33 PM Loetmichel: http://www.auracher-lasertechnik.de/index.php/home-of-the-gp <- and that thing is made entirely of 10mm(8mm?) sheet steel... punched/lasered and bent.
01:34 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: CAD often have "sheet metal" features - I think they even work for it for Fusion 360 right now.
01:34 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: i wouldnt recommend corel draw for any newb to learn cad. its just what i use because i use it for that since version 4.0 came out... thats whats biting me atm. cant seem to wrap my head around the TOTALLY different workflow in f360 (or any other 3dcad)
01:34 PM mr_boo: the kind of tutorial i'm looking for is the absolute minimum complexity example. such as just moving in straight lines at a feedrate
01:34 PM LeelooMinai: Also, Fusion has some extra capabilities if one needs - including simulation, motion study, even analysis of forces, etc.
01:34 PM Loetmichel: after that long a time using corel
01:35 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: I have one for you, just a sec.
01:35 PM mr_boo: i'm totally beginner
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: mr_boo: Here's one g-code total beginner tutorial series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k9LVctI-94&list=PL35sMcDwCf0iXK_K4H_m_V-8HbmI8MS55
01:36 PM LeelooMinai: There are more on youtube.
01:36 PM mr_boo: thanks
01:37 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: had an intern from a highschool a few weeks ago... and had to make a new enclosure out of 1,5mm alumininum
01:37 PM Loetmichel: Rather than designing it again i edited te Gcode direct on the CNC mill in the text editor...
01:37 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Ok, I see... Well, imo that's something you should work on. I mean seriously, when you figure this out, you will say to yourself "why did not I do it years earlier"
01:37 PM Loetmichel: ... the looks of the kid... ;)
01:38 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: That's nice, but you know - that approach does not scale to more complex designs.
01:39 PM Loetmichel: it doesent even scaled well to THAT project
01:39 PM LeelooMinai: You are not going to design F1 car using text editor and g-code:)
01:39 PM Loetmichel: if i had to do a few more dimension changes it would have been simpler to redraw and post.process it
01:40 PM Loetmichel: i think his disbelife stemmed from the fact that i was editing a wall of text and as result a different part fell off the CNC
01:41 PM Loetmichel: he seemed to have problems to visualize the gcodes without the help of the linuxCNC 3d view ;)
01:41 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: In Fusion 360, and CADs that work in simiar way, you can keep your dimension values in a form of table, basically variables with assigned value and units, and then have the whole design magically change itself when you update one of the values - including all complex innterdependencies, alignments, etc. - if one cannot see how awsome it is, one is not an engineer imo:)
01:42 PM Loetmichel: it is awesome. once you have understood how it works in the first place
01:42 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: And look at this at the bottom: http://i.imgur.com/1ZT1qTX.png
01:43 PM LeelooMinai: It's a history of all the operations that you can go back to at any time, change any of those, disactivate, reactivate, etc. - it's like a time machine.
01:43 PM LeelooMinai: And if you change anything anything in the future updates too.
01:44 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Throw that CorelDraw out imo:)
01:45 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: There's a lot of tutorials about Fusion out there - just watch a bit per day, and after a while you will see all the possibilities that emerge, and you will never go back.
01:46 PM LeelooMinai: It may sound a bit over-enthusiastic, but it's not really - not much reason to design in some archaic way.
01:47 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: to be honest: as long as my boss isnt even willing to pay a crash course in F360 for me my enthusiasm in learning how to work with in in my free time is pretty much nonexsistent.
01:47 PM Loetmichel: btw: the corelDraw8 license is my private one.
01:48 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Right, I don't really understand your way of thinking:)
01:50 PM LeelooMinai: I mean, when I was designing my enclosure, I just took the previous model, added things around that, made some motion study to make sure everything moves without hitting anything, then I went into drafting mode, made this in like a minute: http://i.imgur.com/Ja6NSnq.png
01:50 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: at least so much as it consideres working with f26 at the company afterwards
01:50 PM Loetmichel: ... what i do at home is none of his business
01:50 PM Loetmichel: f360
01:50 PM LeelooMinai: Then went to the basement, cut two of those from aluminum, and ready. All that fast, with assurance that I did not end up with some collision, etc.
01:51 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Well, it's worth learning for home work, same way.
01:52 PM LeelooMinai: Imo any maker/hobbist that cannot use something like Fusion360 is doing something suspicious:)
01:52 PM LeelooMinai: I mean you will need to design some 3D parts one way or another.
01:55 PM Loetmichel: so far it worked out ok to design in 2,5d for the last 20 years or so ;)
01:55 PM Loetmichel: that i do in CNC
01:57 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: I see, you are one of those people that keep to old ways. There are many on IRC, I know - same as programmers that still use plain text editors, etc. So basically, a technological conservative:)
01:57 PM Loetmichel: not at all
01:57 PM Loetmichel: i just happen to have learned at the old way and my brain has problems to adapt to F360
01:58 PM Loetmichel: there is a german proverb: "was Hänschen nicht lernt lernt Hans nimmermehr"
01:58 PM Loetmichel: (the things little Hans didnt learn will not be learned by old Hans ever)
01:58 PM LeelooMinai: I am not even saying it's bad, but, well... I am pretty "flexible" and if I see that something has potential to be a better tool, I explore it. It's not always great, as you need time to assimilate new things.
01:59 PM LeelooMinai: I guess best approach is probably somwhere in the middle.
02:00 PM Loetmichel: and the fact that my boss is WAY to cheap to pay for me to get educated with the result of him saving 100s of desighn hours doesent really motivate me at all, can you understand that?
02:00 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: You need to watch some tutorials and at one point change from the "so many new things to waste time on", to "ha, all those possibilities, I could use, that's awsome" :)
02:01 PM djdelorie: "next time I have a decade of free time"
02:02 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: I think you should first explore/research new tools yourself, then go to the boss and explein to him all the advantages, and if he is a sane person, he will put some resources into people learning tools from this millenium.
02:03 PM gregcnc: the boss keeps him undereducated so he can't leave
02:03 PM LeelooMinai: Unless he does not care about productivity and staying competitive, etc:)
02:04 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: the only licensed CAD software in this company is a SINGLE copy of autocad 2000lt at the PC of the woman who takes the telephnoe calls from outside... and happens to be our mechanical engineer.
02:04 PM LeelooMinai: I like the NYC CNC uy in this regard - he seems not being afraid of new things, and it probably already payed up for him.
02:05 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: lol... I thought that Germany is pretty advanced in those areas:)
02:05 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: i can leave at any time. i have experience in nearly any field that involves electronics, IT, electrics, mechacnics, plumbing, bricklaying and carmentry
02:05 PM Loetmichel: carpentry
02:05 PM gregcnc: I worked for a company where 70% of their product could be made with a simple spreadsheet
02:05 PM LeelooMinai: Loetmichel: Do you have a lofting room at your company where people draw stuff on big sheets of paper? :)
02:05 PM Loetmichel: he is just cheap
02:06 PM Loetmichel: LeelooMinai: no, just the one girl that redraws anyting i make for the CNC to a "din-drawing"
02:06 PM LeelooMinai: Being cheap can be expensive - even for poor people.
02:06 PM gregcnc: they never see it and that's fine
02:07 PM LeelooMinai: gregcnc: I would get depressed in such a company pretty fast.
02:07 PM gregcnc: yeah they couldn't keep drafter/designer more than a year or so
02:08 PM LeelooMinai: Probably all left thinking "hell with that - I can as well become a lawyer" :)
02:08 PM gregcnc: it was boring, they paid well for any entry level CAD guy
02:09 PM gregcnc: every once in a wile a custom job came through where you actually had to think
02:11 PM LeelooMinai: Probably soon anyone who cannot take advantage of a computer properly, will be like someone that could not read in the past - just low value overall for companies.
02:11 PM LeelooMinai: At least in a technology-related jobs.
02:13 PM LeelooMinai: Right, what was I even doing... Right, a straight edge...
02:13 PM LeelooMinai: My Yak Shaving master degree at work
02:22 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, laser aligment system - sounds interesting.
02:26 PM LeelooMinai: I guess one could design it at home - some decent laser diode with tight beam and then detector based on an image sensor, so you actually see the beam a thigh resolution as you do the ajustment to get it in the center.
02:29 PM LeelooMinai: Considering that the image sensor dots are at micron size level, that could be pretty accurate, so I guess more of a problem is having coherent and regular beam.
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: Or maybe calibration would be enough as long as the beam stays consistent.
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: thinking is over rated
02:48 PM LeelooMinai: The more you think, probably less happy you will become:)
02:49 PM gregcnc: fat dumb and happy?
02:49 PM LeelooMinai: Well, thin, wise and suicidal does not seem that much better:p
02:50 PM skunkworks: remind me again why I have been too lazy to setup tool tables?
02:50 PM LeelooMinai: The what?
02:50 PM LeelooMinai: The spreadsheet thing in linuxcnc?
02:56 PM LeelooMinai: So far I did not use any offsets from there - I had to touch to the z-top anyways, so did not see the point. So no information from that table was actually used for me in any form.
03:04 PM sync: well, if you determined your part height you can then always change a tool and instanly get working
03:04 PM sync: instead of finding your height again
03:05 PM LeelooMinai: sync: and how do you change tool with ER collet so it is the same "stick out" every time?
03:07 PM LeelooMinai: I guess you could lay it on a flat surface and insert until the end of the endmill hits that surface, but I someohow doubt that the whole collet change and tightening procedure will be very repeatable... Would need to do tests I guess.
03:07 PM sync: by putting index rings on them
03:08 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm...then the nut must be in the same position every time.
03:08 PM Crom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7_RqGB3gMo
03:09 PM LeelooMinai: I use a torque wrench - wonder if that makes the nut be in the same z-position with some good accuracy.
03:09 PM sync: just measure if that is the case?
03:10 PM LeelooMinai: I am thinking though if that could even work - I mean you when you tighten the nut it moves probably with respect to the collet and since the endmill is in the collet, I have a bad feeling about this.
03:11 PM LeelooMinai: Seems a more reliable way would be to have aoutomatic z-touch pad/thing and touch it programatically after a tool change.
03:12 PM LeelooMinai: Don't have one yet.
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: the USPS is very clever, if they lose or damage an international shipment it takes about 2-3 hours of phone time to get your claim paid out in the form of a check
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: the whole process takes about 6-8 weeks and usually 2-3 phone calls
03:31 PM LeelooMinai: Is it pay per minute call? :)
03:32 PM Crom: hmmm I wonder is I took 12" square trussing https://www.usedlighting.com/13287/tomcat-truss-12-x-6-silver?gclid=Cj0KEQjwmIrJBRCRmJ_x7KDo-9oBEiQAuUPKMs5Hg34NodT0YaKyo85PvYhoF8zAgbFTdOoMfO1WOVsaAkwd8P8HAQ
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: Fedex and DHL usually have a check in the mail as soon as they notice that it's missing
03:33 PM Crom: bolt it together and make a big sail cutting cnc hot knife
03:33 PM LeelooMinai: They write you can trusst it.
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: for poly-something sails?
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: lumber will cost you less
03:36 PM Crom: wouldn't be as straight as trussing
04:47 PM JT-Shop: got the port hole installed for the photo sensitive resistor
04:48 PM JT-Shop: now to make a little chicken shelf for the ardweenie
04:51 PM Deejay: gn8
05:09 PM * JT-Shop takes the rest of the night off!
05:37 PM Cromaglious_: hmm
05:39 PM Jymmm: Ok, just got the new trackball in and compared it to the year old one...
05:39 PM Jymmm: Balls are the same, some slight wear, but nothing significant.
05:40 PM Jymmm: The rubys in both are the same, no wear or deformation.
05:41 PM Jymmm: The base, well, that seems to be the issue. The rubys are slightly more inset in the old base, and protrude more in the new one. (which I kinda suspected)
05:43 PM Jymmm: Not sure even how to solve this The base is plastic and the ruby mounts are molded into it.
06:02 PM andypugh: Bah! I stirred a load of skin into the paint that I just painted my 4th axis casting with.
06:13 PM JT-Shop: skin doesn't sound goo
06:13 PM JT-Shop: d
06:17 PM andypugh: Indeed. Flakes and mess. I will need to sand back and then either sieve it, or open the unopened tin (and I would prefer to keep that tin for a bigger job)
06:17 PM roycroft: since that casting is now part machine, part flesh, does that mean it's borg?
06:17 PM JT-Shop: oh you meant paint skin not your own skin
06:18 PM roycroft: i got that, but it seemed more fun to read it as human skin :)
06:20 PM JT-Shop: yea, I'm sensitive to skin breaking on cumadin I leak like a sieve when a small nick happens sorta like the Juila Childs skit on SNL
06:20 PM andypugh: Have _you_ ever tried to dispose of a body? Wait till my fake scrimshaw hits the market...
06:22 PM andypugh: Hope i don’t need to take any blood-thinners ever, I do involuntary body-piercing pretty much every day,
06:22 PM roycroft: well then you should not be drinking red whine while chopping up a chickeh
06:22 PM roycroft: wine, rather
06:22 PM andypugh: My biggest scar is from “When chicken chopping goes wrong”
06:23 PM andypugh: Big knife, swinging to go through the breast bone in one hit, on chicken 20+, and found my thumb instead…
06:24 PM andypugh: Working as a cook in the US too, so all sorts of medical insurance issues.
06:24 PM Tom_itx: andypugh, manchester arena anywhere near you ?
06:25 PM archivist: I am nearer and 60 miles south
06:25 PM Tom_itx: explosions ~3 min ago
06:25 PM Tom_itx: some type of kid's concert
06:25 PM Tom_itx: injuries
06:25 PM andypugh: No, many miles away, but I have family and friends up there.
06:26 PM archivist: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886
06:28 PM andypugh: I have never heard my nieces mention “Ariana Grande” so hopefully they were not there. BBC says “a number of fatalities”
06:28 PM Tom_itx: yeah, sounds bad
06:29 PM roycroft: there are fatalities
06:29 PM JT-Shop: damn
06:29 PM roycroft: "a number of confirmed fatalities"
06:30 PM roycroft: i wonder how many of the injuries/fatalities are from the stampeding and not from the explosions
06:31 PM roycroft: the running away generally causes more problems than the incident itself
06:33 PM andypugh: Aye, could be nothing more than a PA fault causing panic.
06:33 PM andypugh: We had a PA in my college hall with a fault that could bang loud enough to cause pain. (it got retired)
06:35 PM andypugh: No doubt Al-Quiada will claim it anyway. Why wouldn’t they?
06:41 PM LeelooMinai: Any opinion on this setup for measuring x vs xy plane? https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/34832246825/in/dateposted-public/
06:42 PM LeelooMinai: Not sure about the parallel on top of a round surface.
06:42 PM andypugh: Looks wrong to me
06:43 PM andypugh: But maybe I was misinterpreting the photo
06:43 PM LeelooMinai: I am improvising for lack of better tools - just wondering if a parallel placed like that is representative of the rail axis.
06:44 PM andypugh: I hadn’t spotted the parallel. You know what it is a photo of, we don’t :-)
06:44 PM LeelooMinai: Er, the parallel is in the center there obviously:)
06:44 PM LeelooMinai: The indicator touches it.
06:45 PM andypugh: Now you mention it, I can see it
06:45 PM LeelooMinai: That's all I have some parallels and 123 blocks.
06:45 PM andypugh: When I first looked I saw a DTI finger against the wrong face of an extrusion.
06:46 PM andypugh: It’s all just pixels.
06:46 PM andypugh: Seriously, you have significant extra information.
06:46 PM Cromaglious_: getting error 508 in open office bracketting error.. brackets are right.... grr
06:47 PM andypugh: Cromaglious_: OO uses square brackets?
06:47 PM Cromaglious_: =IF(H14<C5,"90 OK",IF(H14<(C5*1.1547),"60 OK",IF(H14<(C5*1.4142),"45 OK",IF(H14<(C5*2),"30 OK","Less Than 30") ) ) )
06:48 PM andypugh: (Or, at least, it did last time i had cause to use it)
06:48 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, I don't know, I guess in theory I could get skewed reading, but then the parallel would need to be at an angle. Meh, I don't know:/
06:49 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: Better test: put the DTI on a traveller, and the parallel on the bed.
06:49 PM LeelooMinai: Right, that won't work - no way to have the block on the rail in fixed position.
06:50 PM LeelooMinai: It will rotate.
06:50 PM andypugh: Or maybe not, without the travellers linked top and bottom, as it is they will rock.
06:50 PM Cromaglious_: semi colons not comas
06:55 PM andypugh: LeelooMinai: You seem to understand what the problems are. Everything right now is just a bit kinematically ambiguous. I think you need to to assemble the machine a bit more before it is possible to take the measurements you want. At that point I think that the DTI should substitute for the tool and be used to probe known-good standards on the the bed.
06:56 PM roycroft: blah
06:56 PM roycroft: 29 degrees and still getting warmer
06:56 PM roycroft: or hotter, i should say
06:56 PM roycroft: and tomorrow the same
06:56 PM andypugh: K? F?
06:56 PM roycroft: c
06:56 PM andypugh: Where?
06:57 PM * roycroft is avoiding work in the garden today because of the heat
06:57 PM roycroft: western oregon
06:57 PM roycroft: i got a lot of work done yesterday, and i need 2 more 3-4 hour sessions, but it's too hot too early in the year for me to tolerate that
06:57 PM andypugh: Look on the bright side, 29 K, F or R are all worse :-)
06:57 PM roycroft: i'll wait until mid-week, when it's giong to drop down to 20 again
06:58 PM roycroft: i've decided that a boring head is the best way for me to make the radius turner
06:58 PM roycroft: but i won't have my lathe leveled until week's end, as i'm awaiting some shim stock
06:58 PM andypugh: Do you have a boring head?
06:58 PM roycroft: i want to align the tailstock and start turning real stuff on it
06:58 PM roycroft: yes, for my mill/drill
06:59 PM andypugh: I like mine so much that I use it when a sensible person would use circular interpolation.
06:59 PM roycroft: it has an r8 arbor with a 1-1/2"-18 threaded connection to the head
06:59 PM roycroft: i can turn a shaft for it once i get the tailstock aligned
07:00 PM roycroft: i use the boring head on my mill/drill all the time
07:00 PM andypugh: https://goo.gl/photos/VVkk9vG73vVgn2KP8
07:00 PM roycroft: that machine is too small to drill holes larger than about 13/16" in steel
07:00 PM roycroft: so i drill to that and then use the boring head to enlarge as needed
07:00 PM andypugh: Slighly crazy back-boring setup.
07:01 PM roycroft: that's a good size bore
07:01 PM roycroft: there's a guy from the midlands who has a youtube machining channel
07:01 PM andypugh: Less-crazy first stage: https://goo.gl/photos/qWK7eCS8NBMCiQbV7
07:01 PM roycroft: he does something called sunday night specials ,or something like that
07:01 PM roycroft: and he made a boring head radius turner that seems to work pretty well
07:02 PM roycroft: doubletrouble? doubleboost?
07:02 PM roycroft: something like that is his youtube nick
07:02 PM andypugh: doubleboost
07:03 PM andypugh: I have seen some of his stuff.
07:03 PM roycroft: his favorite word is "bollocks
07:03 PM roycroft: "
07:03 PM roycroft: he is kind of a hybrid of "do it right" and "get it done"
07:05 PM roycroft: and i'm probably one of few americans who understands most of what he says
07:06 PM roycroft: anyway, i do like my boring head a lot
07:06 PM roycroft: and while it can be slow to bore with it on the mill/drill, i get excellent results
07:06 PM andypugh: I should watch more of him and similar channels. There is good stuff there (like the wobbler bar for centring lathe work to a centre-punch mark) but he is one of those channels that I can see mistakes and incomprehensions in, so aren’t entertaining (I find AvE hard to watch similarly).
07:07 PM andypugh: However, I can watch Clickspring all day long. Everything he does is a notch above my work.
07:07 PM roycroft: i don't know of clickspring
07:08 PM andypugh: Really? You are in for a treat.
07:08 PM roycroft: at this point in my machining career, most folks are a notch above my work
07:08 PM roycroft: but i like being challenged
07:09 PM roycroft: yes, i can tell just by the intro to his first video that i'll enjoy his stuff
07:09 PM andypugh: Clickspring is like Project Binky for production quality, and both are great
07:09 PM roycroft: oh, not his first video
07:09 PM roycroft: but the first video in the antikythera mechanism series
07:09 PM andypugh: Start with the clock ;-)
07:10 PM roycroft: i haven't the time to watch his videos right now
07:10 PM roycroft: but he's bookmarked
07:10 PM roycroft: my laptop has some "download all videos in a youtube playlist" software
07:10 PM roycroft: i'll probably snarf them all with that
07:10 PM roycroft: and add them to my plexmedia player
07:10 PM roycroft: without the ads :)
07:10 PM andypugh: You can watch that to the end this week. But Antikythira is an excercise in waiting
07:11 PM roycroft: and i should say, i did not use to mind so much that youtube had some ads
07:11 PM roycroft: but it's gotten onerous, to say the least, of late
07:12 PM roycroft: now there are ad interruptions several times during the middle of some videos
07:12 PM roycroft: and often times the video gets reset to the start after an ad
07:12 PM roycroft: so i just download and watch offline these days as much as possible
07:13 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s is brilliant TV. it’s weldng and car mechacs, but could go straight to cable-TV the production is so good.
07:13 PM roycroft: he has everything organised into playlists, so that's good
07:14 PM roycroft: i've seen some fo the project binky videos
07:14 PM andypugh: (boast) AvE and Keith Fenner both subscribe to my channel. :-)
07:15 PM roycroft: keith fenner i've seen
07:15 PM roycroft: i've seen some of your stuff too
07:16 PM andypugh: I am not good TV, partly because I rarely speak. And when I do, about 10% of the english-speaking world can understand me.
07:17 PM andypugh: Hmm. Maybe 12%, actually,
07:17 PM roycroft: AvE i'm not sure i've seen
07:17 PM roycroft: iirc you speak rather softly in your videos
07:18 PM roycroft: i don't recall having trouble understanding what i hear though
07:18 PM andypugh: I would rather type than speak. I actively avoid the telephone. At work I walk to desks to talk to folk.
07:18 PM roycroft: i am an american
07:18 PM roycroft: but i've known a *lot* of scots
07:19 PM roycroft: and have watched a lot of scottish cinema and television
07:19 PM malcom2073: That is really well produced
07:19 PM roycroft: i guess learning how to understand scottish english makes all other english accents relatively easy to comprehend :)
07:19 PM andypugh: malcom2073: Which?
07:19 PM malcom2073: andypugh: project blinky
07:19 PM andypugh: Aye, I am not kidding that it could go straight to cable-TV
07:20 PM malcom2073: It could, it feels like something I'd see on spike tv's car-hour
07:21 PM roycroft: yes, i just loaded one of your videos (hobbing on a mini-mill), and once i turn the volume way up i have no problem understanding you
07:22 PM malcom2073: I like andypugh's videos
07:23 PM malcom2073: He's always doing something odd
07:24 PM roycroft: i'm not that good at regional english dialects, but i'd guess you're from the north
07:24 PM roycroft: there seems to be some liverpudlian notes in the accent, but definitely not liverpool
07:25 PM roycroft: and since i'm not very good at regional dialects, i'm probably completely wrong :)
07:26 PM andypugh: Yorkshire.
07:26 PM roycroft: farther north and east than i thought
07:28 PM andypugh: Well, I have been exiled in the south for 17 years. :-(
07:30 PM BeachBumPete: are you talking about the possible terror attack?
07:30 PM roycroft: will you be moving back to northumberland after brexit, when england splits up into smaller regional countries? :)
07:30 PM andypugh: Aye, ‘appen I will.
07:30 PM roycroft: scotland has its own parliament now
07:31 PM roycroft: as does wales
07:31 PM roycroft: the english want an english parliament
07:31 PM roycroft: and once they have one, cornwall will want its own
07:31 PM roycroft: and kent
07:31 PM roycroft: and northumberland
07:31 PM roycroft: etc.
07:31 PM roycroft: and london will still be london
07:31 PM roycroft: and still think it's the centre of the universe
07:34 PM andypugh: I don’t especially like London, but name a more important single city..
07:34 PM roycroft: rome?
07:34 PM roycroft: beijing?
07:35 PM roycroft: riyadh?
07:35 PM roycroft: i would have said washington, dc until recently
07:36 PM andypugh: Politically Washington, financially maybe Stuttgart, It’s just seems to be in the top 5 for everything.
07:36 PM TurBoss: Vila-real!
07:36 PM TurBoss: :D
07:36 PM roycroft: but the us has become increasingly marginalised in the global community over the past few years
07:36 PM andypugh: Don’t worry, we are working hard to marginalise ourselves too.
07:37 PM roycroft: you did a fine job of that with your referendum last year
07:37 PM andypugh: (And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, where people living happy lives is concerned)
07:38 PM roycroft: and the ascendance of iron lady ii did not help matters any
07:38 PM roycroft: angela merkl is considered by many the leader of the free world now
07:39 PM * roycroft would rather make chips than work towards being the greastest country on earth
07:39 PM andypugh: Is she your Iron Lady? I am not clear?
07:39 PM roycroft: being part of
07:39 PM roycroft: she's trying to be the next coming of thatcher
07:40 PM roycroft: fortunately she's not quite succeeding
07:40 PM LeelooMinai: Few weeks ago a read an article how China is investing trillion into clean energy investments around the world - kind of ironic now when compared to what US does.
07:41 PM andypugh: I don’t think so. She is far less of an idealogue. Thatcher was driven by a capitalist dogma that did a lot of harm. (she decided that manufacturing did not crearte wealth, for example)
07:41 PM roycroft: see, i think she's trying to be an idealogue, but not succeeding
07:42 PM roycroft: this is pretty much what i have to say about your election
07:42 PM roycroft: last year we had lousy candidates and got screwed
07:43 PM roycroft: this year it's your turn
07:43 PM andypugh: I am not clear here, are you talking about Merkel or May?
07:43 PM roycroft: may
07:43 PM roycroft: merkel garners a lot of respect
07:43 PM roycroft: sorry
07:43 PM roycroft: i should have been more clear
07:43 PM LeelooMinai: who is may?
07:44 PM roycroft: when i said "iron lady ii" i assumed you'd know i meant your pm, since the original iron lady was british
07:44 PM roycroft: pm of great britain, leeloominai
07:44 PM andypugh: I _like_ Corbyn. I don’t necesarily agree with him, but I would vote for him as my MP. Because the Houce of Commons needs him. But I am not sure I want him as pM.
07:44 PM roycroft: i like him too
07:45 PM roycroft: but he's sadly completely ineffective
07:45 PM roycroft: i like his policies, i should say
07:45 PM roycroft: but he can't even keep his own party together, much less win an election
07:45 PM andypugh: We will see.
07:45 PM roycroft: and that's not all on him, to be honest
07:46 PM roycroft: he's been working hard to restore labour to its roots, but modernised
07:46 PM roycroft: the blairites needed to be driven completely out of the party first
07:46 PM roycroft: and that did not happen
07:46 PM roycroft: tony blair was your bill clinton
07:46 PM andypugh: It is obvious that May will win, like it was obvious that the referendum would go to “Remain” and that you would elect Hilary.
07:47 PM roycroft: that was never obvious to me
07:47 PM roycroft: i was not surprised when trump won
07:47 PM roycroft: i had been warning my democratic friends about that for months
07:47 PM roycroft: and clinton did exactly what i predicted she would do
07:47 PM roycroft: she took the union vote for granted
07:48 PM roycroft: and spent no time campaigning in white, middle class union areas
07:48 PM roycroft: namely, wisconsin, pennsylvania, and michigan
07:48 PM roycroft: all of which were "sure win" states for her
07:48 PM roycroft: and all of which she lost
07:48 PM andypugh: And have you noticed how wierd the French election went? La Pen didn’t get in, but the winner wasn’t mainstream, he leads a brand-new party struggling to find candidates for parliamentary posts. In any normal year _that_ would be extrardinary.
07:48 PM roycroft: and that caused her to lose the election
07:49 PM roycroft: but that followed our election
07:49 PM roycroft: where we allegedly elected someone who would "drain the swamp"
07:49 PM roycroft: but we elected a charlatan
07:50 PM roycroft: whose only swamp draining so far has been into the white house
07:50 PM roycroft: people have had enough of the status quo
07:50 PM roycroft: i was for bernie sanders in our election, btw
07:50 PM roycroft: but you might have guessed that
07:51 PM andypugh: Well they, think they have, without being quite clear what the Staus Quo is.
07:51 PM roycroft: i think it would be tremendous if corbyn won
07:51 PM roycroft: but the chances seem quite slim to me
07:52 PM roycroft: that said, one of the things i really like about british elections is that the election cycle is so short
07:52 PM roycroft: and so full of surprises
07:52 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-8K8Hj8bxE
07:52 PM roycroft: donald trump filed paperwork for his 2020 election before he was even sworn in as president this year
07:53 PM roycroft: blocked from the usa
07:53 PM roycroft: and my uk vpn is currently assigning me a us ip address
07:53 PM roycroft: i was just trying to watch the bbc iplayer a short while ago
07:54 PM roycroft: i should pick another server
07:55 PM roycroft: maybe i'll move to leicester for a while
07:55 PM roycroft: maidenhead is getting boring anyway
08:00 PM andypugh: Oh, I don’t know: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/maidenhead?s=t
08:02 PM roycroft: well dammit, leicester is in the us now too
08:02 PM roycroft: maybe manchester
08:03 PM roycroft: manchester is still in the uk
08:04 PM andypugh: I spend half my time with the internet convinced I am in Germany. Makes Google Shopping useless.
08:06 PM andypugh: Anyway…
08:08 PM roycroft: up to 19 dead now
08:08 PM roycroft: and it's being classified as a "terrorist act"
08:08 PM sync: well 19 confirmed
08:08 PM roycroft: yes
08:09 PM roycroft: i meant "the count is up to 19"
08:09 PM roycroft: not "as many as 19"
08:09 PM roycroft: sorry, i can see how that was ambiguous
08:21 PM SpeedEvil: I like myfordboys recent vid. Approaches part with blowtorch "And now I desolder the part from the fixture"
08:39 PM roycroft: well now that my new test indicator has arrived i decided to finally check for runout of my spindle taper
08:39 PM roycroft: and i cannot measure any
08:39 PM roycroft: this is good
08:39 PM roycroft: i can also disassemble the old one now and see if i can fix it
08:39 PM roycroft: test indicator, that is
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: when using flared brass fittings, when does one use copper gaskets? http://fittingsandadapters.com/coppergasket.html
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: when joining two brass fitting to each other?
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: when joining a flared copper tube to a matching flared brass fitting?
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: when the flares have been made with a pizza cutter and chewed by squirrels?
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: this is for a medium pressure application 300-550 psi
08:45 PM Cromaglious_: may I really need to get my gore calculator up on a sewing site...
08:53 PM roycroft: i've only used copper gaskets when high heat is involed, such as on an exhaust manifold
08:56 PM Tom_itx: CaptHindsight, can't say i've ever used those tube gaskets
08:57 PM malcom2073: That's odd, most flare fittings are self sealing aren't they?
08:57 PM Tom_itx: either flared the end or used a compression slip fitting
08:57 PM malcom2073: The only thing I've used copper gaskets for is brake hose, and that's flat not angled
08:57 PM Tom_itx: 19 deceased so far from concert
08:57 PM Tom_itx: manchester arena
08:58 PM roycroft: yes, and about 50 injured
08:59 PM Tom_itx: https://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/cth/cth_8flrdjts.html
09:02 PM Tom_itx: http://www.fedhillusa.com/webnuts/common%20flares6.pdf
09:02 PM Tom_itx: automotive use DIN flare
09:11 PM roycroft: well i think it's time to officially declare this dti dead
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: I can see using a copper gasket when using a steel flare with steel tubing
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: but a double flare is generally used with a steel tube and steel flare
10:05 PM CaptHindsight: a flare copper gasket could be used with a copper single flare tube and a steel flare fitting
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: this application is for ~500 psi liquid and gas
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: ~3400 kPa
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: so not water or natural gas supply
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: so ~500 psi, brass flare fitting, copper flare tube
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: copper flare gasket or no gasket? that is the question
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: http://secoseals.com/
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: are the gaskets used to insure a seal with shoddy workmanship? e.g. poorly made flare, out of round flare fitting, scratched, scored or dented flare surface??
10:20 PM connor_g1odwolf is now known as connor_goodwolf
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: ah, when brass on brass connections are made the soft copper is used as a gasket
10:29 PM mman1506: rip bridgeport SEM servo :(
10:32 PM mman1506: you were so old...
10:35 PM Tom_itx: CaptHindsight, so back to the single copper flare
10:37 PM Tom_itx: i just forget when they use a 'double' copper flare
10:38 PM mman1506: any recommendations for a good servo to retrofit in?
10:38 PM Tom_itx: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/copper-tubing-when-double-flare-306375/
10:38 PM Tom_itx: CaptHindsight, you might consider a double flare
10:38 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
10:39 PM Tom_L: it takes a little practice
10:40 PM Tom_L: keeps the wall thickness to maintain pressure ratings
10:41 PM Tom_L: due to the thinning of the copper at the flare joint
10:42 PM Tom_L: https://mobiledistributorsupply.com/double-flaring-tool-set-1.html?gclid=CKSw9MSFhdQCFdcagQodLlYBbQ#
10:42 PM Tom_L: that has the inserts for making the double flare
10:44 PM Tom_L: http://avstop.com/ac/apgeneral/image8fq.jpg
10:45 PM Tom_L: http://jeepdraw.com/images/BRAKES9.jpg
10:45 PM CaptHindsight: I was just wondering when to use the copper flare gaskets
10:45 PM Tom_L: i've never heard of them
10:45 PM Tom_L: i've seen them under wood screws sometimes as a gasket of sorts
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: brass-on-brass action
10:46 PM Tom_L: yeah, saw that but never had that situation
10:48 PM CaptHindsight: would make sense for mating any materials harder than copper
10:48 PM CaptHindsight: where keeping a seal is important
10:48 PM Tom_L: right
10:48 PM Tom_L: oil drain plugs used to use copper rings
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: seen them with SS brake lines to aluminum
10:50 PM Tom_L: i can't think of an application that uses it
10:50 PM Tom_L: yeah that would be one
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: brass adapter to brass fitting
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: usually some Rube Goldberg assembly
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.flaringspin.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hNulDpYAts
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: heh 6 pc set $235
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: another racket I see https://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Jacket-60295-Flaring-Eccentric/dp/B003ANPKVI
11:43 PM CaptHindsight: List $125