#linuxcnc Logs
May 03 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:45 AM Crom: sheeshz didn't even wait 15 minutes
12:51 AM CaptHindsight: he's busy and in a far off land
12:55 AM TurBoss: morning
12:58 AM Crom: morning TurBoss
12:58 AM TurBoss: Hello Crom
01:00 AM Crom: compiling python 2.7.4 then going to see if it works or gives me a keyboard interrupt error
01:00 AM TurBoss: hmmm
01:06 AM archivist: why would python get anywhere near a kb interrupt, that is the OS's job
01:18 AM Crom: if you hit ^c or something like that...
01:18 AM Crom: it's not a keyboardInterrupt... it's an error somewhere else
01:19 AM TurBoss: what about signals'
01:21 AM archivist: ^c will send a signal
01:21 AM TurBoss: I have a example arround
01:21 AM TurBoss: sek
01:24 AM TurBoss: https://gist.github.com/TurBoss/9df83b5709add77760d0a1e8380f27b7.
01:47 AM Goodlord: what kind of installation is this? its asking to partition drive?
01:49 AM archivist: any linux system has some partitioning, swap and main block
01:49 AM Goodlord: ok, im a lifetime windows user lol, im new to linux
01:49 AM CaptHindsight: Goodlord: yes, it's going to install Linux distro on the hard drive, it's not a Windows application
01:50 AM archivist: swap is in a file in windaz
01:50 AM Goodlord: so if i install this, it wont erase the mint op system?
01:50 AM archivist: if it is partitioning probably yes
01:50 AM CaptHindsight: i think you better do some more reading up on this
01:51 AM Goodlord: on linux or linuxcnc?
01:51 AM CaptHindsight: both
01:51 AM Goodlord: i will be
01:51 AM CaptHindsight: you can run it live from the cd or flash drive
01:52 AM Goodlord: ok if i run it live will it be the full application?
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: you'll want to install it if you're going to control some actual hardware
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: yes, it's the Linux distro and all the applications
01:52 AM Crom: udpiouno doesn't work either
01:52 AM Goodlord: thats fine, but basically i would need to dedicate a computer or at leas a hard drive to linuxcnc though
01:53 AM CaptHindsight: you'll want to run the latency test on the computer to see if it is suitable as well
01:53 AM Goodlord: which would be ok old PCs are 10 a penny
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: if the BIOS is compatible
01:54 AM Goodlord: i have had it running from usb stick, i just backed out when it wanted to partition for the full install
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: some BIOSes are broken and don't let you turn off power management or speed stepping
01:55 AM Goodlord: so for now i just run from usb
01:55 AM CaptHindsight: it will wipe out your windows system if you install it
01:55 AM Goodlord: no windows on this computer i only installed linux yesterday
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: i forget if the installer on the live cd lets you install it side by side
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: on another Linux install
01:57 AM Goodlord: sorry for all the newb questions
01:58 AM Goodlord: so lets say i have an stl file, i can open it in this - convert it to gcode? and send it to the machine?
01:58 AM CaptHindsight: what are you considering using LCNC for?
01:58 AM Goodlord: im building a router
01:59 AM CaptHindsight: no you want a slicer or CAM for that
01:59 AM Goodlord: so what does linux cnc do?
01:59 AM CaptHindsight: LCNC takes g-code as input and synchronizes the motion
01:59 AM CaptHindsight: controls the motors
02:00 AM Goodlord: right, so im starting with gcode with this
02:01 AM Goodlord: the other route is with mach3 in windows, i have got the CAD software, but i just like the concept of open source, i want to do it this way
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
02:06 AM Goodlord: i tend to learn these apps by working through tutorials in the app, i guess i need a machine plugged in to learn this, i can still get my head round some basics in the meantime though
02:12 AM archivist_herron: there are simulators too to show machine moves
02:27 AM Deejay: moin
02:29 AM Goodlord: archivist any that run live with linuxcnc?
02:30 AM archivist_herron: linuxcnc come with some
02:30 AM archivist_herron: various machine types
02:31 AM Goodlord: ok thanks
03:40 AM gcardinal: When installed from image - is it actually version 2.7 or 2.7.8 ?.. or how to get current version Im running?..
03:42 AM archivist_herron: shows the version on axis top iirc
03:43 AM gcardinal: so if its 2.7 it actually is 2.7.0 ?
03:44 AM gcardinal: I guess I need to run upgrade
03:44 AM archivist_herron: usually the first thing recommended to do
03:46 AM gcardinal: Okay, thx
03:54 AM TurBoss: http://kurokesu.com/main/2016/10/30/first-batch-of-touch-probe-tpa2-is-now-available/
03:54 AM TurBoss: a bit expensive but cool
04:01 AM TurBoss: cheaper tha renishaw
04:30 AM nos: here I am \o/
04:59 AM TurBoss: i have a Transformer with 100VA each coil
05:00 AM TurBoss: can I join them in parallel?
05:00 AM Tom_L: if the phases are correct
05:00 AM Loetmichel: tumdedum: if both coils have the same voltage: yes
05:00 AM TurBoss: 0-24 0-24
05:01 AM TurBoss: join 0-0 and 24- 24¿
05:01 AM Tom_L: i did 3 xfrmrs that way
05:01 AM Loetmichel: ... measure it beforehand tho... if you get the pahse 180° wrong you will experience a very fast heating transformer ;)
05:02 AM Loetmichel: sorry, tabfail, i meant TurBoss
05:02 AM TurBoss: :)
05:02 AM TurBoss: okay thanks
05:02 AM Loetmichel: it should usually be 0-0 and 24-24
05:02 AM TurBoss: 100VA 24v gives 4.3 Amps
05:02 AM Loetmichel: but as i said:; measure it beforehand
05:03 AM TurBoss: 200VA 24v gives me 8.3 Amps
05:03 AM TurBoss: what I should measure?
05:03 AM TurBoss: resistance?
05:03 AM Loetmichel: simpelest way would be to connect the two 0V and then put power to the transformer and then measure with an MM on the both 24V connections on AC
05:03 AM Loetmichel: should be 0V between them if all is correct
05:04 AM Loetmichel: if you meaure 48V one coil is the wrong way around
05:04 AM TurBoss: so I should measure 0 with 0
05:04 AM TurBoss: and 24 with 24?
05:04 AM TurBoss: I should get 0?
05:04 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu3.jpg
05:04 AM Tom_L: those are parallel
05:04 AM TurBoss: whoa
05:05 AM TurBoss: nice rectifier
05:05 AM TurBoss: :D
05:05 AM Tom_L: 48 v 18A
05:05 AM Loetmichel: no, you should connect 0-0
05:05 AM TurBoss: ok
05:05 AM Loetmichel: THEN measure 24-24. and it SHOULD be 0V AC
05:05 AM Loetmichel: if its not something is off
05:06 AM TurBoss: ok Thanls
05:06 AM TurBoss: k
05:06 AM Tom_L: at first i wired them parallel at the DC point but decided i could do it before that and save a couple rectifiers
05:06 AM Loetmichel: IF 0V across the two 24V you can connect them and get 24V 9A out of the transformer
05:06 AM TurBoss: fine
05:08 AM * Loetmichel did a nice 80V 20A PSU a whine ago for a servo system... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4760&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:08 AM Loetmichel: same principle
05:09 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4766&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:09 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:09 AM TurBoss: thoose caps are for reactive?
05:10 AM Loetmichel: those are the 80V power rail smoooting
05:10 AM TurBoss: ahhhh
05:10 AM TurBoss: is it unregulated?
05:10 AM Loetmichel: of course
05:10 AM TurBoss: and toroidal?
05:11 AM Loetmichel: the transformers are the two white "disks" on the right
05:11 AM Loetmichel: yes
05:11 AM TurBoss: nice
05:11 AM Loetmichel: was medical equipment, so completely sealed
05:12 AM TurBoss: my rectifier + regulatro can handle 3 Amps
05:13 AM TurBoss: I'm doing overkill using the coils in parallel?
05:13 AM TurBoss: or will keep the trafo cooler?
05:13 AM TurBoss: I jus wate 1,5 Am
05:13 AM TurBoss: *just
05:17 AM Loetmichel: if you only need 3 Amps once coil at 4.5A should be sufficient
05:17 AM TurBoss: thanks
05:18 AM Loetmichel: and the temperature of the transforemr should stay the same regardless of 1 or 2 coils inn parallel
05:18 AM TurBoss: oh
05:18 AM TurBoss: cool
05:20 AM Loetmichel: rule of thumb is that a rectivied DC from a transforner rises sqrt(2) in voltage and it draws sqrt(2) more current to compensate for that
05:21 AM TurBoss: https://m.imgur.com/q2aWog7
05:22 AM TurBoss: the bridge didn't fit on the pcb :D
05:22 AM archivist_herron: peak current depends on charge time no sqrt involved,
05:23 AM Loetmichel: meaning that the voltage behind the rectifier and smoothing caps will be close to 32V and the current draw fromthe transfomer wehn the regulator is at full 3Amps should be around 4,2Amps at the transformer
05:23 AM Loetmichel: average, not peak
05:23 AM archivist_herron: charge current depends on capacitor size
05:23 AM archivist_herron: average depends on load !
05:23 AM archivist_herron: again no sqrt
05:25 AM Loetmichel: archivist_herron: charge current is irrelevant
05:26 AM Loetmichel: the AVERAGE current in the transformer will be 1.414 times higher than the drawn current if a full bridge rectifier and smoothing caps are involced
05:26 AM Loetmichel: providing the caps are big enough to acually smooth anything
05:27 AM archivist_herron: bollocks, see maths for charge time v cycle time no sqrt involved
05:28 AM archivist_herron: entirely capacitance value and frequency based
05:34 AM nos: https://i.redd.it/nt002e9id9vy.png
05:36 AM archivist_herron: see ripple current http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/circuits/diode-rectifier/rectifier-filtering-smoothing-capacitor-circuits.php
07:43 AM McBride36 is now known as Guest65946
08:08 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:34 AM Guest65946 is now known as McBride36
12:14 PM Crom: well on to a new error
12:59 PM Crom: everyday or so my doggie lets me put her in my lap and I can spend 3 minutes trimmer hair, then that's it she's getting down
02:21 PM LeelooMinai: Any idea if for 5i25+7i76 I can add more than 1 encoder? And if so, does it involve synthesizing new firmware version or can it be done by some configuration from linux?
02:27 PM pcw_mesa: what type of encoder?
02:27 PM LeelooMinai: Aliexpress one: 400 pulses no index, just AB
02:28 PM LeelooMinai: non-differential I guess
02:29 PM LeelooMinai: I know there linuxcnc encoder hal module, but having it handled by FPGA would be more reliable (I hope)
02:30 PM LeelooMinai: The encoder has "DC 5-24V" on it.
02:31 PM LeelooMinai: In dmesg currently I get " Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15", "Smart Serial Firmware Version 43"
02:32 PM LeelooMinai: And list of pins, with 4 stepper stepgens and one encoder.
02:49 PM pcw_mesa: what is the encoder for?
02:49 PM LeelooMinai: For steppers on 3 axis. Right now I have one encoder (for testing,) but 2 more are in the mail.
02:50 PM LeelooMinai: For feedback - if I am losing steps.
02:52 PM pcw_mesa: You can have more encoders on the other connector
02:53 PM LeelooMinai: Which connector? I have 7i76 board.
02:53 PM pcw_mesa: the other 5I25 connector
02:54 PM pcw_mesa: for example if you add a 7I85 or 7I85S you can get 4 more encoders
02:55 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, they seem to be out of stock.
02:56 PM pcw_mesa: The 7I85S is in stock
02:56 PM pcw_mesa: (we have plain 7I85's also but have not updated the store)
02:57 PM LeelooMinai: What is the difference beetween them anyways?
03:00 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, I read - just different combination of features.
03:02 PM LeelooMinai: One more question: when cards have encoder support, what does it involve in terms of hardware? Is there something different than for normal io pins?
03:19 PM pcw_mesa: It depends, you can make a FPGA configuration with plain encoders on P2 for example
03:19 PM pcw_mesa: This would allow you to connect TTL level encoders directly to the 5I25
03:19 PM pcw_mesa: (with associated risks is you connect to something outside the 0 to 5V ranges)
03:19 PM pcw_mesa: s/is you/if you/
03:20 PM LeelooMinai: ok, I understand. To connect that extra card to the second port, seems I need some adapter for the cable, right?
03:21 PM pcw_mesa: The 7I85 and 7I85S use muxed encoders so thers a lite logic on the card (plus level translators for differential in and +-25V withstand on inputs)
03:22 PM pcw_mesa: yes there's a little flat cable --> DB25F/Bracket thingy
03:22 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, right, makes sense.
03:23 PM pcw_mesa: but you can use the FPGA pins directly if you are careful
03:23 PM pcw_mesa: (always connect grounds between systems before signals)
03:32 PM pcw_mesa: no more than 7V or less than -0.5V on inputs
03:33 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, yes, I guess it's a tradeoff between foolproof setup and one where I will need to be careful.
04:06 PM XXCoder: hey LeelooMinai been a while
04:11 PM Vitran: Hello!
04:42 PM Deejay: gn8
04:48 PM JT-Shop2: trying to cut tin roofing without bleeding is a bit hopeful
04:52 PM roycroft: that's what breeding is for
05:58 PM nallar is now known as Ross
06:14 PM {HD}: I have these pretty sweet drawer slides I just found but I cannot figure out how to take them apart without bending the little metal tabs.
06:14 PM {HD}: I found a whole box of them.
06:18 PM facundo: spanish?
06:27 PM SpeedEvil: {HD}: why do you think you can
06:33 PM {HD}: SpeedEvil: There is no way to get at the mounting holes without doing something...
06:49 PM roycroft: {hd}: i've used some that cannot easily be disassembled, but where the mounting screws on the stationary rails can be accessed by partially extending the movable rails
06:49 PM roycroft: mounting holes, rather
06:50 PM {HD}: roycroft: Yea I have seen ones like that. These are full extension so there are 3 rails and 2 bearing assemblies. I cannot find a combination that allows the mounting holes to align...
06:59 PM Tom_L: zeeshan
06:59 PM zeeshan: hi
06:59 PM Tom_L: what's the latest project?
07:00 PM zeeshan: why do u think im always working on a project :)
07:00 PM Tom_L: because you are
07:00 PM zeeshan: :{
07:00 PM zeeshan: im making a roof rack for the truck
07:01 PM Tom_L: yeah i saw that
07:01 PM malcom2073: lol
07:01 PM Tom_L: i recomended a bigger truck
07:01 PM zeeshan: http://imgur.com/a/i9Ryo
07:01 PM zeeshan: :D
07:01 PM zeeshan: its mostly to mount my 4 spot lights
07:01 PM zeeshan: and light bar
07:01 PM zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/2VvYHOV.jpg
07:02 PM zeeshan: got my winch bumper ready to go in too
07:02 PM zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/7cMpXWU.jpg
07:02 PM zeeshan: the company that made it
07:02 PM zeeshan: did a great job
07:02 PM zeeshan: looks like high quality fab
07:02 PM Tom_L: is that for pulling subaru's out of the drive?
07:03 PM zeeshan: what about you
07:03 PM zeeshan: lol nahh man
07:03 PM zeeshan: i got stuck on a trail by myself
07:03 PM zeeshan: i was stranded
07:03 PM zeeshan: i had to engineer my way out
07:03 PM zeeshan: :(
07:03 PM Tom_L: but you did
07:03 PM zeeshan: yea but it got me thinking, if i accidently got stuck in mud
07:03 PM zeeshan: or something
07:03 PM zeeshan: i'd be screwed
07:04 PM zeeshan: what have you been upto
07:04 PM Tom_L: take plenty of strap cause that cable is only so long
07:04 PM Tom_L: not much really
07:04 PM zeeshan: yea i got lots of towing stuff
07:04 PM zeeshan: tree savers, blankets
07:04 PM zeeshan: d rings, etc
07:05 PM zeeshan: snatch blocks
07:05 PM zeeshan: :D
07:05 PM Tom_L: hang glider in case there's no other way out...
07:05 PM zeeshan: hehe
07:06 PM roycroft: a jetpack would get you out quicker
07:06 PM Tom_L: we could turn this into a bond movie...
07:08 PM roycroft: we've officially tied our all-time record high for the day
07:08 PM roycroft: and we've had below average highs for weeks
08:28 PM {HD}: burr
08:40 PM {HD}: I want to make this with my drawer slides... https://youtu.be/7hJEuWAfSPY?t=5m13s
08:40 PM {HD}: Do you think he is using traditional slides just on the back of those panels?
08:48 PM roycroft: i anticipate he's using bottom slides on both the top and bottom
08:49 PM roycroft: i would make those pull-outs two sided
08:49 PM {HD}: roycroft: That is why I thought he was using traditional slides on the back...because if you had top/bottom slides you would make it 2 sided.
08:50 PM roycroft: i'm done with prep work on my lathe stand
08:51 PM roycroft: only 5 days behind schedule :)
08:51 PM {HD}: lol
08:51 PM roycroft: i'm off to market for dinner food now
08:51 PM roycroft: but when i return i'll start reconfiguring the shop for painting
08:51 PM roycroft: i should be able to paint tomorrow
08:52 PM * roycroft is running up on his deadline quickly, and he's already extended his deadline by a week twice
08:53 PM roycroft: i'm done painting the leveling leg mounts though!
08:54 PM roycroft: so there is some progress at least
09:01 PM LeelooMinai: Weird - _ am looking at the output of that Chinese encoder I have and it seems to output negative voltage on movement - -400mV or so.
09:01 PM LeelooMinai: And it's connected to 5V DC
09:20 PM Tom_itx: what type of output? open collector?
09:20 PM Tom_itx: or maybe it's just not working right
09:21 PM LeelooMinai: I have no datasheet for it - I am just changing to another measurement method and will see again.
09:29 PM Tom_itx: i'd try adding pullups to it
09:29 PM LeelooMinai: It seems that the output sits at 378mV and go to 0 at movement.
09:30 PM Tom_itx: ^^
09:30 PM Tom_itx: acts like open collector outputs
09:31 PM LeelooMinai: Right, seems like that - the minus of Chinese stuff - no docs.
09:31 PM LeelooMinai: But the build at least seems decent.
09:32 PM LeelooMinai: 10kΩ maybe?
09:34 PM Tom_itx: good place to start
09:34 PM Tom_itx: then lower it maybe
09:40 PM LeelooMinai: 25 or so μs rise time with 10k
09:41 PM LeelooMinai: Not sure what to aim for.
09:41 PM Tom_itx: showed some square wave signal though?
09:41 PM Tom_itx: try 3.3k or so
09:41 PM LeelooMinai: Yes, now it's sane - between 0 and 3.3V it seems
09:42 PM Tom_itx: must be open collector then
09:44 PM LeelooMinai: I saw some empty pads on the pcb there close to AB out - probably I can put smd pull ups directly there.
10:21 PM pcw_home: If you use a Mesa encoder card, it will have built on 2K ohm pullups to 5V
10:21 PM pcw_home: built in
10:23 PM LeelooMinai: What about the 7i76 encoder?
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://tulsafintube.com/fin-tube-finning/ anyone have a source for similar fin tubes?
10:34 PM pcw_home: LeelooMinai: same
10:48 PM Tom_itx: http://www.nationwidecoils.com/products/?campaignid=125354767&adgroupid=25923747727&feeditemid=&targetid=kwd-3763231141&loc_physical_ms=9024248&matchtype=e&network=g&device=c&devicemodel=&creative=189543877904&keyword=fin%20tubes&placement=&target=&aceid=&adposition=1t1&gclid=CMuhwrOj1dMCFQmOaQodreYOpg
10:48 PM Tom_itx: http://www.fintube.com/index.html
10:49 PM Tom_itx: http://tex-fin.com/
10:50 PM Tom_itx: CaptHindsight, how large?
10:50 PM LeelooMinai: Hmm, wired encoder to mesa, but I see no activity in the scope nor hal config window.
10:54 PM LeelooMinai: Correction, the hal config does not update. The watch shows encoder working. But still not sure why the scope does not show anything for pin 15/16 where AB are - or maybe it's normal?
11:01 PM LeelooMinai: Ok, all sorted out - it was 5i25 pin 15/16 not 7i76
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_itx: size of a soda can
11:17 PM Tom_itx: i suppose some of those are a bit big then