#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 27 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:07 AM Guest30408 is now known as McBride36
12:47 AM Crom: just said heck with it... just bought http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Jetdirect-EX-Plus3-PN-J2593A-Parallel-Ethernet-Print-server-WITH-Power-Supply-/152048527683 now I have to find a printer cable... with out the end cut off...
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: Morning from Germany
01:02 AM Crom: morning
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: today its Girls Day here in Germany we got around 50 8graders girls to be in CNC 3D art lesson
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: hard day ahead
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later ;-)
01:32 AM Crom: heh TurBoss
01:35 AM TurBoss: Hey
01:35 AM TurBoss: wasup Crom?
01:36 AM Crom: I saw a cnc probe on ebay for $69 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3D-Digitizing-Probe-for-Mach3-Stepper-Motor-Routers-Polished-Ball-tip-/332171759643
01:37 AM TurBoss: cool
01:37 AM TurBoss: checking
01:37 AM archivist: ew home brew in the extreme
01:38 AM TurBoss: too expensive for the quality no?
01:38 AM archivist: yes
01:38 AM archivist: you can knock that sort up yourself
01:39 AM Crom: he says it's repeatable to 0.005"
01:39 AM archivist: barn door repeatable
01:39 AM Crom: I have to play with it to see if I could do that
01:40 AM TurBoss: can yo build on yourself?
01:40 AM Crom: still trying to figure out method of operation
01:40 AM TurBoss: is not a renishaw but.. just for probing...
01:41 AM TurBoss: not a 6k probe :D
01:41 AM archivist: there are far better designs out there
01:41 AM TurBoss: I have to reboot
01:41 AM TurBoss: I'l be back in one min
01:41 AM archivist: never need to reboot!
01:41 AM archivist: get off windaz
01:42 AM TurBoss: :D
01:42 AM pfred1: I had to reboot after an update
01:42 AM TurBoss: is to wire some stuff
01:42 AM pfred1: something about new video drivers
01:42 AM pfred1: well I could have exited X unloaded and reloaded teh modules then restarted X
01:42 AM Crom: well I'm going to bed now nite nite
01:42 AM pfred1: it was easier to reboot
01:43 AM archivist: !later TurBoss http://www.vinland.com/touch-probe.html
01:43 AM the_wench: will tell TurBoss when he/she joins next
01:50 AM the_wench: TurBoss: archivist said http://www.vinland.com/touch-probe.html
01:50 AM * TurBoss is back
01:51 AM TurBoss: I saw it
01:51 AM TurBoss: is cool
01:53 AM TurBoss: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=renishaw&_sacat=0
01:53 AM TurBoss: lol
01:53 AM TurBoss: at work I have on f this machines
01:53 AM TurBoss: is pretty exact
01:54 AM TurBoss: it runbs w95
01:54 AM TurBoss: :D
01:54 AM TurBoss: outputs dfx, stl...
02:04 AM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/PeABr1y lots of epoxy granite for that small spindle
02:07 AM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/Isu6qsc
02:08 AM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/VQupIhe looks like he cast some metal in the epoxy/granite for attaching the rails
02:11 AM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/8AwP4HM too much work for a maker type
02:11 AM archivist_herron: solid
02:12 AM CaptHindsight: the mounting areas need to be machined flat and square to each other
02:13 AM CaptHindsight: I'm looking at ways to make assembly of similar maker-proof as possible
02:16 AM archivist_herron: use gauge plate bolted to the two inserts to hold parallel
02:17 AM CaptHindsight: considered casting on a glass plate
02:17 AM archivist_herron: or use gauge plate with rear anchors to to form the rail area
02:18 AM archivist_herron: users may pick up non flat glass
02:18 AM CaptHindsight: 1/2" or thicker
02:19 AM CaptHindsight: would be easier if people had surface plates at home :)
02:20 AM archivist_herron: gauge plate can be got cheap enough cut to fit the design, ground flat already
02:23 AM Deejay: moin
02:28 AM CaptHindsight: predrilled with anchors
02:29 AM CaptHindsight: it's still going to take some adjusting if you have base and column
02:30 AM CaptHindsight: get them square and parallel to each other
02:31 AM TurBoss: morning
03:11 AM TurBoss: does any one know why ~/.profile is not read by the xfce terminal from the linuxcnc installation disc?
03:11 AM TurBoss: I have to "source .profile" first
03:16 AM pfred1: I think ~/.profile may just be read on login?
03:17 AM pfred1: ~/.bashrc is read when you open a new shell
03:17 AM TurBoss: there is a add ~/bin to path in .profile
03:17 AM TurBoss: I have reloged
03:18 AM TurBoss: and only works if I source .profile
03:18 AM TurBoss: :\
03:35 AM enleth: TurBoss: what he said, use .bashrc
03:35 AM TurBoss: thankjs
05:26 AM jthornton: morning
05:27 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:30 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chicks/chicken-run-1.jpg
07:19 AM trentster: Anyone used IMS MDrive steppers before?
08:50 AM gcardinal: trying to select a vise for my small mill - and not quite sure what clamping force I "need". Is 30 kN sufficient for general hobby use?
09:32 AM nallar is now known as Ross
09:50 AM JT-Shop: prob any quality machine vise will be fine
10:14 AM SpeedEvil: gcardinal: Consider how much that will mar your work
10:15 AM gregcnc: i wonder if it's a X1 or bridgeport and 1/8" tooling or 6" face mills
10:15 AM SpeedEvil: gcardinal: If you're not going to be taking absolute enormous cuts, I suspect quite adequate
10:16 AM gcardinal: Currently I have this one https://smaskin.se/slipning/fastspanning/skruvstycken/precisionsskruvstycke-psn-100x125-mm/ - but I was told that this is not a vise to do CNC machining with since I only clamp it with a hex screw
10:16 AM SpeedEvil: Consider the worst case. Say the effective clamping force is 3kN if it's oily, and then off axis, ...
10:17 AM gcardinal: So I consider switching to this one https://smaskin.se/frasning/fastspanning/skruvstycken/precisionskruvstycke-st/ but not sure if its also a bit "light"
10:17 AM SpeedEvil: Does it clamp your parts firmly.
10:17 AM gcardinal: I think so but I have no way to verify that. it just my feeling on it
10:18 AM gregcnc: grinding vises only work for light machining, that 100mm vise will be plenty for most work
10:18 AM gcardinal: and mac I will ever run will be 2" face mill
10:18 AM SpeedEvil: you can measure it - for example, clamp some round bar.
10:18 AM SpeedEvil: But, 30kN is quite a lot
10:19 AM gregcnc: It's typical for a 4", 100mm vise
10:19 AM SpeedEvil: What are the tool forces involved, and how much force will your machine take without bending alarmingly
10:19 AM SpeedEvil: And yes, 30kn is about what I'd expect of that sort of vice
10:19 AM gcardinal: this is my machine https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/catalog/product/view/id/5779/s/bohr-und-fraesmaschine-f1210-c-hs/
10:20 AM SpeedEvil: Ideally you would be able to reasonably estimate the clamping force actually needed
10:20 AM SpeedEvil: As a general point.
10:20 AM gcardinal: gregcnc okay, thank you
10:21 AM gcardinal: SpeedEvil thx! okay I will try the round bar test and see how it goes - I guess goal is to see if I can pray it out with ease?
10:21 AM SpeedEvil: No, you need to work out how much force you'd need to move it at all
10:22 AM gcardinal: is there a way to tale that without force measuring device of some sort?
10:22 AM SpeedEvil: tapping it with hammer, ... may give you an idea. But, the first vice is not going to generate much clamping pressure
10:23 AM SpeedEvil: And if work shifts it will likely ruin the work, possibly the cutter too
10:23 AM gcardinal: SpeedEvil okay, yes thats what got me thinking about a new vise.
10:24 AM gcardinal: originally I wanted to go with the one from tormach, but shipping price was a bit high
10:26 AM M-comrade: gcardinal - i also have a vice like you mentioned
10:26 AM M-comrade: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1590&category=1963256914
10:27 AM M-comrade: i also have a setup with load cells to measure the clamping force
10:28 AM gcardinal: M-comrade oh cool, do you find it adequate for general use?
10:28 AM M-comrade: its been a while, but IIRC my cutting forces were 35 Newtons, and clamping was ~900
10:29 AM M-comrade: well, mine has a few issues
10:29 AM M-comrade: the pin to clamp down the moving jaw is a PAIN to use
10:30 AM M-comrade: it was my first real vise, and it was on sale on little machine shop, so i can't compare to other vises
10:30 AM gcardinal: yes it is... especially when moving a considerable distance.
10:30 AM gregcnc: I haven't convinced myself to try a china special 3" milling vise simply because I can't grind it myself it's it's really bad. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5590&category=1963256912
10:31 AM gcardinal: gregcnc yes from what I see as the forums its more of a "project" then a ready to use item
10:32 AM M-comrade: which ones?
10:32 AM M-comrade: (sorry, i missed the conversation above)
10:32 AM gregcnc: I really don't understand that. those screwless vises are pretty darn good and cost less.
10:34 AM gcardinal: M-comrade the one gregcnc posted link to at the littlemachineshop (last link here)
10:38 AM skunkworks: :) http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/20160717_213020.jpg
10:38 AM gregcnc: nice! what are you making there
10:39 AM M-comrade: just a random question - would measuring cutting force be useful for any of you guys here?
10:39 AM skunkworks: custom heat sink for some equipment
10:41 AM roycroft: i have a 4" imported vise on my mill
10:41 AM roycroft: it works ok
10:41 AM roycroft: the problem with those imported ones is that the movable jaw doesn't pull down as it tightens like a kurt
10:41 AM roycroft: so i put the part in the vise
10:41 AM roycroft: snug the jaw
10:42 AM roycroft: take a small plastic head hammer
10:42 AM roycroft: tap the part down
10:42 AM gregcnc: they don't have the same design?
10:42 AM roycroft: and then tighten another 1/4 turn
10:42 AM roycroft: it's sloppy, gregcnc
10:42 AM roycroft: when i use the above technique the parallels both remain snug
10:42 AM roycroft: if i don't use it i can always pull one of them out after tightening
10:42 AM skunkworks: the kurt vices apply the clamping force differently than our import vices. they do work better
10:43 AM roycroft: my vise was $120
10:43 AM roycroft: a 4" kurt more like $450
10:43 AM skunkworks: you still have to tap - but not as much. and they don't change shape the more you tighten them.
10:43 AM skunkworks: roycroft, these are all used off of ebay.
10:43 AM roycroft: i was making some parts last night
10:43 AM roycroft: i could see right away that they were not going to be square
10:43 AM gregcnc: OK I have a kurt so it's why I'm hesitant to waste time on a import
10:44 AM roycroft: so i retrammed the vise and found it was 0.045" out of line in 4"
10:44 AM roycroft: i investigated and found that one of the hold down bolts was loose
10:44 AM roycroft: because it had stretched
10:44 AM roycroft: i've used this vise for years with those bolts with no problem
10:44 AM gregcnc: that's like eyeball from across the room tolerance
10:44 AM roycroft: but i replaced both of them
10:44 AM roycroft: yes, it's really bad
10:44 AM roycroft: and i could tell by eyeballing that it was off
10:45 AM roycroft: i started making the first part and when "wtf?"
10:45 AM roycroft: i am the only person with access to my shop
10:45 AM roycroft: and i did not move the vise
10:45 AM roycroft: which is why i went looking for something wrong
10:46 AM roycroft: so my advice to folks getting the imports is: 1. do the tap down every single time, and 2. replace the hold down bolts (and probably most of the other fasteners) immediately
10:46 AM roycroft: #2 is the advise i give regarding anything from china
10:46 AM roycroft: they make decent parts in china now
10:46 AM roycroft: but they still don't make decent fasteners
10:46 AM gregcnc: they CAN make decent parts
10:47 AM roycroft: when i get a new piece of machinery, if i have the time i replace all the fasteners right away
10:47 AM roycroft: if not, i replace them the first time i touch them
10:48 AM roycroft: for something like a vise, if you like things to work really smoothly, consider it a semi-finished casting and hardware set, not a ready to use tool
10:50 AM roycroft: i am on holidays through tuesday next
10:51 AM roycroft: today i shall weld up my lathe stand
10:51 AM roycroft: my goal is to have the stand made, painted, and the lathe installed and leveled by tuesday
10:53 AM Jymmm: That's some damn fast drying paint
10:54 AM roycroft: automotive paint does not take long
10:54 AM roycroft: one of the nice things about it
10:55 AM roycroft: if i were using hammerite i'd have to wait a couple weeks
10:56 AM roycroft: the stuff i got is a urethane enamel and doesn't require ir curing
11:44 AM {HD}: Hey people. Anyone have experience with this chipset? https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-Universal-Low-Profile-Components-RC-302/dp/B004B0H69I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1493309586&sr=8-3&keywords=parallel+pci
11:46 AM {HD}: and this? https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-RS232-Serial-Adapter-PCI2S550/dp/B00006B8C0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1493320537&sr=8-3&keywords=serial+pci
11:50 AM pcw_home: Netmos/MOSChip based cards are fine for LinuxCNC parallel port step/dir systems
12:00 PM {HD}: pcw_home: lol, I feel bad you answered. Arnt you 'the' mesa guy?
12:01 PM pcw_home: might be...
12:01 PM jdh: mesa boards will make you faster and more attractive.
12:05 PM {HD}: I want to go mesa boards, I just havent figured out what configuration I want to go yet. I am getting an old machine running to use to build the bigger better machine. When BBMachine is built Ill invest in mesa.
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: {HD}: don't you have working LPT on one board and serial working with a USB --> serial adapter?
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/PeABr1y lots of epoxy granite for that small spindle
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/Isu6qsc
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/VQupIhe looks like he cast some metal in the epoxy/granite for attaching the rails
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: http://imgur.com/8AwP4HM how to make this maker proof?
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: as possible
12:21 PM Jymmm: PU
12:21 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: PU
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: PU or P.U.?
12:22 PM Jymmm: PU Polyurithane
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: polyurethane?
12:22 PM gregcnc: are you designing a planset for a machine?
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: urethanes are much more expensive than epoxies
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: looking into it for DIYers with limited skills and tools
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: little to no experience, no surface grinder or mill
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: well handy enough to attempt to build a machine
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: the problem is getting everything square
12:24 PM gregcnc: i put studs into concrete for my franken mill column and shimmed a linear slide, but it's only 4 posts
12:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2saYF_FLgA low precision line boring with floating bearings
12:27 PM CaptHindsight: what they tend to come up with
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: I've considered shipping squared bolt together frames that you place into a form and fill with epoxy granite
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: the frames would need to be properly handled before casting
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: one drop and it could throw it all off
12:32 PM skunkworks: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/152768
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:33 PM CaptHindsight: nice
12:33 PM {HD}: CaptHindsight: yeah, I had a working solution however it wasn't "clean "
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: what a day
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: questions on questions from little chicks
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: "can we do a Pink pony
12:36 PM gregcnc: capthindsight premachined rails for mounting the linear rails cast into the epoxygranite would be too expensive?
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: you need rails anyway
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: I don't think it would be too expensive
12:38 PM CaptHindsight: good rails aren't cheap
12:38 PM CaptHindsight: well new ones
12:39 PM CaptHindsight: I thought about a low cost laser alignment system as well
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: but I still picture someone casting this on a wobbly uneven work surface
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: another problem is getting a column square on a base if made in two parts
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: same for mounting a spindle square
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: and for a lathe getting the headstock square along with the spindle
12:43 PM gregcnc: for a lathe I'd probably buy a cheap granite surface plate, drill anchor holes
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: but you have a firm grasp of what to do and why
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: how to square it
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: I think shims are too difficult for many
12:44 PM gregcnc: yeah, that could take an entire book to explain
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: and having a bunch of screw jacks defeats the purpose of a granite base
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: screw jack every inch :)
12:47 PM sync_: well, proper alignment is difficult, I like to do it with an autocollimator
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: cheep CNC Complete set http://www.ebay.de/itm/DE-SHIP-SBR20-CNC-Linear-Rail-Set-3-Ballscrew-RM1605-350-650-1050-BK-BF-Bearing-/162478017368
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, the problem is "Machine Alignment for Dummies"
12:48 PM FinboySlick: Long metal structures in EG would probably be troublesome because of thermal expansion and stresses during curing. But I wonder if using metal strands as an aggregate would be interesting (like short 2" bits of steel wire)
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: oh that is easy
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: make one rail eqaul to the table
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: nah, it's doesn't get that hot
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: make a pice of wood with the holes of the rails and the distance
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: mount it as hard as you can
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: moce to one side clamp the rail
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: move to the other side
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: clamp also
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: then move back and forthe with a hammer to get nice and easy movement
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: then if you have what you want go for a fix screw
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: that's just getting the rails to not bind
12:51 PM sync_: usually you put the mirror of the AC on one rail block
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: flat surface is always a MUST
12:51 PM sync_: and get it flat
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: they can still wobble all over, just parallel
12:51 PM sync_: and then use a pentaprism to check parallelism
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5v74lU3KUI&feature=youtu.be
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: it is always made by that example
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: sync_: not sure if they could make sense of what they would measuring
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: even with explanation
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: would be measuring
12:55 PM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/EaxnEKCUREk?t=2m34s say you use studs like this and the form is pre drilled. The rails are bolted to the outside while pouring to align/level the studs, then the rails could be grouted in place. May be what was done here, but hard to tell
12:55 PM gregcnc: maybe issues with curing shrinkage blah balh everything
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yglTpUNokUU they counted on a granite plate to get the bottom flat
12:57 PM gregcnc: it's either going to be use a good reference plane or spend time scraping things flat
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: well scraping is out
12:58 PM sync_: well CaptHindsight, it is like everything in life, you gotta learn it at some point
12:58 PM gregcnc: right
12:58 PM gregcnc: not enough time in this world to answers makers's questions about scraping
12:59 PM sync_: putting in steel inserts and scraping them is a good option tho
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: was trying to get away from shipping precast pieces due to weight and cost
01:00 PM gregcnc: those with dedicationa re doing builds like this
01:01 PM CaptHindsight: they could be sourced locally but then you run into getting it square with limited skills and tools
01:02 PM gregcnc: but a simple kit, I haven't figured anything
01:04 PM sync_: well, it is always the problem of wanting precision for non precision money or equipment
01:04 PM sync_: if you don't have the metrology, you are not going to get it
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: why I considered a lower cost laser kit
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: but that might be too difficult for many to use
01:07 PM sync_: I'm always amazed how much a 40mm granite surface plate bends by just pressing lightly on it
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6meHiTTr-o all that work and the spindle is held by plywood
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlj41jGXuHk a gantry design
01:11 PM sync_: yeah and no step in the mounting surface for the rails to bear against
01:12 PM sync_: all the rail mfgs say to do that as it will seriously improve stiffness
01:12 PM gregcnc: I think a later video shows an aluminum mount
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rikqmRTH0Dk yeah
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: yu van grind it with a dinmand plate
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: the average handy person won't have access to that
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: a grave stone maker got the mashine
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: forklift includet
01:17 PM gregcnc: I've always wondered how flat head stones and countertops are
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: this is not about you or me building a machine with an epoxy granite frame, it's about if it's possible to make a kit with instructions for a maker type to build one
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: the maker types that build machines with threaded rods and glue guns
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: and you have to build one to prove that it works well if the instructions are precisely followed or it's your fault that they failed
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: i agree
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: that is quite a chelange to do
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: but you can alo get fiber concrede on precicion
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: ok im out
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: i go to bed as i had a hard Day
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: BYE
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: night
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: heh, a day with a school full of kids
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-metalwork-discussion/143335-laser-alignment-machine-ways-cheap-diy-system.html
02:02 PM Crom: finally installing lcd programs to control my 20x2 lcd
02:35 PM TurBoss: Hello
02:35 PM TurBoss: First piece is success
02:36 PM TurBoss: http://i.imgur.com/67DmyqF.jpg
02:36 PM TurBoss: http://i.imgur.com/6ftWnAu.jpg
03:04 PM TurBoss: Hi andypugh
03:04 PM TurBoss: I have done some pieces
03:05 PM TurBoss: http://i.imgur.com/6ftWnAu.jpg ,http://i.imgur.com/67DmyqF.jpg
03:07 PM andypugh: Seems to be working
03:08 PM andypugh: Intended to be backlit?
03:09 PM TurBoss: no
03:09 PM bpuk: pretty nice lithophane - you seem to have some jaggedness in the edges - could well be the toolpath though
03:11 PM TurBoss: yes is 0.1mm
03:11 PM TurBoss: 1.5 bal nose
03:13 PM TurBoss: 0.1 between paths
03:14 PM TurBoss: seems not sufficient
03:14 PM bpuk: ah, and no finish path around the outsides?
03:14 PM TurBoss: no just parallel finish
03:17 PM bpuk: yup, that'd explain it. if you were doing something like a photograph the effect wouldn't be noticable. but with it being a fairly simple design the toolpath shows a bit
03:17 PM bpuk: good job though
03:22 PM TurBoss: Thanks
03:23 PM TurBoss: bpuk: this is the machine https://youtu.be/LmnhDz7NDb0
03:25 PM TurBoss: an strange issue is that when the machine ends the job and spindle goes off computer self restarts
03:26 PM bpuk: does it do so if you start the spindle, wait a minute, then stop the spindle (when not in a job)
03:27 PM TurBoss: can't try now
03:27 PM TurBoss: will do tomorrow
03:27 PM bpuk: if it does - my guess would be that the spindle stopping is generating enough noise to confuse the power supply of the computer
03:27 PM TurBoss: posible
03:27 PM TurBoss: will move the contactor
03:27 PM TurBoss: is pretty near...
03:28 PM bpuk: which I've seen with failing power supplies - putting my mobile on top of that computer would cause a hard reset
03:28 PM TurBoss: wow
03:29 PM bpuk: if it's radiated EMI, keeping a decent distance between the computer and the machine should help
03:29 PM bpuk: if it's conducted EMI - well, theres options there too
03:29 PM TurBoss: EMI is for?
03:30 PM TurBoss: electronic magnetic impulse?
03:30 PM TurBoss: :P
03:30 PM bpuk: electromagnetic interference
03:30 PM bpuk: but close enough :P
03:30 PM TurBoss: ehhe
03:31 PM TurBoss: I should change the wiring to a shielded one?
03:31 PM bpuk: try and move the computer further away if you can - if it's radiated that should give you a decent chance of fixing it
03:31 PM TurBoss: ok
03:32 PM bpuk: after that - I'd ask on the mailing list, where there are plenty of electrical type people who can give better advice than me
03:32 PM TurBoss: will do now is late to plug the spingle on
03:32 PM TurBoss: ok will do
03:33 PM TurBoss: LinuxCNC is the most active mailing list of the ones I'm subscribed
03:33 PM bpuk: I've got something similar in my workshop - if I start the (manual) mills spindle while the grinder is running, it knocks out the contactor for the grinders gear pump
03:33 PM bpuk: I could probably fix it, but don't care enough - it's rare that I'm using both at the same time
03:33 PM TurBoss: Is not a big spindle is 0.5Kw
03:34 PM TurBoss: :D
03:34 PM bpuk: plenty for softer materials
03:36 PM bpuk: but it's also why I'm thinking EMI + a sensitive power supply rather than causing the mains voltage to drop low
03:36 PM TurBoss: contactor is on the top of the psu :D
03:36 PM TurBoss: so very likely
03:36 PM bpuk: gah! have you got a suppression diode on the contactor?
03:37 PM TurBoss: betwen A1 A2?
03:37 PM TurBoss: no I don't have any
03:37 PM TurBoss: will 1400 ones do?
03:37 PM TurBoss: 1N4000
03:37 PM TurBoss: or how its called
03:38 PM bpuk: you don't usually need them with contactors - but they help with the voltage spike when the contactor opens
03:38 PM TurBoss: its a 220 AC one not DC
03:39 PM bpuk: how are you switching the AC? hand switch?
03:39 PM TurBoss: I can switch to a small relay
03:39 PM TurBoss: another small relay
03:39 PM bpuk: nah, I'd just move it away from the power supply
03:39 PM TurBoss: Ok
03:39 PM TurBoss: the signal is wired like this
03:40 PM TurBoss: hal -> python component -> serial -> i2c -> buffer IC 24v -> 24 v relay -> 220 contactor
03:40 PM TurBoss: :_D
03:40 PM bpuk: that's... a fair chain
03:41 PM bpuk: run out of parport pins?
03:41 PM TurBoss: No I was having a unused relay board
03:41 PM bpuk: fair enough
03:41 PM TurBoss: old domotic experiment
03:42 PM bpuk: *looks at his pile of 'spare' mesa boards and keeps his mouth shut'
03:42 PM TurBoss: 2 parports 5 serial ports
03:42 PM TurBoss: ohhhhhhh
03:42 PM TurBoss: I wan't one
03:42 PM TurBoss: :D
03:42 PM bpuk: I've got this horrible habit of 'upgrading' machines
03:42 PM TurBoss: Ihehehe
03:43 PM bpuk: and then I plan to build a new machine with the old boards - and just... don't quite get around to it
03:43 PM TurBoss: Next machin wil use servors with the argon drives + some mesa card
03:43 PM bpuk: ooh - I'd love to see how you get on with the argon drives - I keep looking at them
03:43 PM bpuk: well, and the ionicube
03:43 PM TurBoss: yes very good pieces
03:45 PM bpuk: last control I did was using ABB ACSM1 - pain in the backside to get working, but very nice once they were
03:45 PM TurBoss: checking..
03:45 PM bpuk: set of 3 20kW servos
03:46 PM bpuk: not something I want to touch again soon
03:47 PM TurBoss: :D
03:47 PM TurBoss: issues configuring?
03:48 PM TurBoss: Havent play with servos
03:48 PM TurBoss: :(
03:48 PM bpuk: issues tuning - the feedback loop was a pair of load cells 4 meters downstream
03:48 PM TurBoss: ah
03:49 PM TurBoss: argon has good tuning tools
03:49 PM TurBoss: and multiplatform...
03:49 PM TurBoss: very good
03:49 PM TurBoss: but I havent see the ionic firmware anywer
03:49 PM bpuk: so they had to work in sorta velocity mode - with a moving torque limit
03:49 PM bpuk: ionicube uses granity as well I believe
03:49 PM TurBoss: ah
03:50 PM bpuk: but if you're looking at smaller servos (<700W) the ioni may be a good fit
03:50 PM bpuk: argon seems better for the larger motors - unless you've got resolvers on them
03:51 PM TurBoss: boss want's heavy
03:52 PM bpuk: fair enough :D
03:53 PM TurBoss: I was also looking at the clearpath
03:53 PM bpuk: not looked at that one
03:54 PM TurBoss: only windows tools for tuning
04:10 PM TurBoss: What I can do now is change the wiring
04:10 PM TurBoss: and tomorrow wil test the spindle
04:27 PM Deejay: gn8
04:28 PM TurBoss: n8
04:29 PM TurBoss: bpuk I have removed the contactor and I'm goint to put a 2.5Kv relay
04:32 PM bpuk: it's worth a shot - might not work - but if it does, easy fix
04:43 PM andypugh: TurBoss: bpuk: Have you seen the stmbl drives?
04:43 PM andypugh: Integrate very nicely with LinuxCNC.
04:43 PM TurBoss: no I havenn't
04:44 PM TurBoss: checking
04:44 PM andypugh: Like, this nicely:
04:44 PM andypugh: 7 float IN 11 hm2_stbl.656b.pos_cmd <== cmd-lim
04:44 PM andypugh: They talk smart-serial
04:44 PM andypugh: (656b is the serial number of my specific drive)
04:45 PM TurBoss: is there a online shop to check?
04:45 PM bpuk: andypugh: not seen those - bookmarked
04:45 PM TurBoss: I found the githup page
04:45 PM TurBoss: is very diy
04:45 PM andypugh: Ah, well, there is the drawback. I dont know if anyone is selling them commercially at the moment.
04:45 PM TurBoss: I like it
04:45 PM TurBoss: can try to build
04:45 PM bpuk: just picked up 7i29's to replace the bridgeport drives
04:46 PM bpuk: so... maybe next servo project
04:47 PM bpuk: don't suppose you know any open-ish drives that'll drive 4kW ac servos - I've got 3 spares that I don't know what to do with
04:51 PM TurBoss: kicad project
04:51 PM TurBoss: cool
04:52 PM TurBoss: thanks andypugh
04:54 PM TurBoss: andypugh did you asemby yours yoursefl?
04:54 PM TurBoss: asembly**
04:55 PM andypugh: No, I managed to scrounge a pre-built one by promising to help with the software. A promise I need to live up to.
04:55 PM TurBoss: :)
04:58 PM andypugh: bpuk: I wonder if the IRAMX30 is pin-compatible with the IRAMX16 used in the STMBL?
04:59 PM andypugh: What is the peak current og yout 4kW servos?
05:00 PM bpuk: would need to check the nameplate - I'd guess 8-10 amp
05:01 PM andypugh: Well, the device in the STMBL is rated at 16A
05:01 PM bpuk: 400v?
05:02 PM andypugh: 600V
05:02 PM bpuk: interesting - I wonder why they claim up to 1kw then
05:02 PM andypugh: Dunno. You could ask them on their IRC
05:02 PM bpuk: probably best
05:02 PM bpuk: thanks
05:03 PM andypugh: Though, actually rene-dev is here too
05:03 PM sync_: bpuk: because there is no reason to claim more currently
05:03 PM sync_: I'll do some actual load testing after I finish my thesis next week
05:03 PM bpuk: aha - so the drive is under rated.
05:04 PM bpuk: good to know - now I just need to find a machine big enough to need those motors :D
05:13 PM miss0r: Finaly completed this horrible custom chock absorber mount for a motorcycle: http://picpaste.com/pics/20170427_233949-G4V7de6v.1493329362.jpg
05:14 PM miss0r: Some of the surface looks somewhat rough, but it is all smooth to the touch :)
05:15 PM andypugh: What material?
05:15 PM miss0r: c45 steel
05:15 PM andypugh: Your design?
05:16 PM miss0r: yeah
05:16 PM miss0r: you can use it if you want :)
05:16 PM * TurBoss is back
05:17 PM andypugh: I don’t understand some of the features, but then I don’t know where (or how) it munts.
05:17 PM bpuk: what's the bike?
05:18 PM miss0r: the two drilled holes are for the chock absorber. the two "wings" furthest out to both sides, are to be marked with a centerpunch and drilled on-site
05:18 PM miss0r: its a honda something :) (I don't know too much about bikes)
05:20 PM miss0r: thats it for tonight. now deburring is done (alot of needle filing). see you around
05:21 PM TurBoss: andypugh so for wire the stmp i need some mesa serial card?
05:22 PM TurBoss: :
05:22 PM TurBoss: oh cool diferential serial
05:22 PM TurBoss: :D
05:23 PM andypugh: TurBoss: I don’t believe so, it was just that smart-serial is convenient for me.
05:24 PM sync_: well you need something that can speak smart serial currently
05:24 PM TurBoss: oh I only know mesa cards :)
05:24 PM andypugh: No analogue-voltage control or step-dir?
05:25 PM TurBoss: https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl/wiki/Pinouts
05:25 PM TurBoss: I'm checking this
05:25 PM andypugh: TurBoss: You can connect an STMBL to the expansion serial port on the 7i76 or 7i77, or hook 8 of them up to a 7i44 or similar.
05:25 PM TurBoss: cool
05:26 PM sync_: andypugh: that is currently not planned
05:26 PM andypugh: I would imagine that step/dir control will come along eventually?
05:27 PM sync_: step/dir works already, but we dislike it
05:27 PM sync_: as you have to derive the signal to get a velocity
05:27 PM sync_: and a single wire failure will make your machine crash
05:27 PM TurBoss: so... what is the recomended wiring?
05:27 PM sync_: sserial
05:27 PM TurBoss: v4 has sserial?
05:27 PM sync_: all versions have sserial
05:28 PM TurBoss: usart?
05:28 PM TurBoss: as the wiki says
05:28 PM TurBoss: is that¿?
05:28 PM andypugh: sync_: I can see that, but people will want to use step-dir, because that’s a no-extra-hardware option.
05:28 PM sync_: andypugh: that is their problem, currently
05:28 PM sync_: ;)
05:28 PM TurBoss: sync_: is the USART sserial?
05:29 PM sync_: smart serial works over the usart, yes
05:29 PM TurBoss: ok was confused thanks
05:30 PM sync_: one could use the parallel port to wiggle out serial, but eh
05:34 PM sync_: also andypugh, the stmbl is not really made for legacy hardware, so you have to get some extra hardware anyway to get the signals out of the machine
05:35 PM TurBoss: ok so the 6I24 -> 7I44 -> stmpl ?
05:35 PM TurBoss: *stmbl
05:36 PM TurBoss: but sync_ said that are other cards...
05:36 PM TurBoss: ok checking
05:40 PM TurBoss: sync_: I can't find the electrical specifications
05:40 PM sync_: what for?
05:41 PM TurBoss: for the stmbl
05:42 PM TurBoss: max Watts ?
05:42 PM sync_: it says right there
05:44 PM sync_: but we have tested it to around 1kW
05:44 PM TurBoss: ah found it
05:44 PM sync_: but it should push 3kW cont just fine
05:44 PM TurBoss: thanks
05:44 PM TurBoss: my goal is of 900W
06:22 PM tiwake: anyone use plasma cutters before?
06:24 PM Cromaglious_: hmm i could see serial being helpful... send the parameters to the drive then strobe dtr to tell the motors to start running their programs
06:25 PM Cromaglious_: tiwake, yes.. not much but enough
06:26 PM tiwake: Cromaglious_: speeds and feeds and hight between head and cutting surface?
06:27 PM Cromaglious_: speeds and feeds come out of the plasma cutter manual and heights... tweaking is up to you.. start off 10% under their recommended speeds
06:28 PM tiwake: Cromaglious_: how about different materials... read that they could in general cut anything that is conductive... does that include graphite?
06:30 PM Cromaglious_: you can try... hmmm plasma cutting a pour hole or notch in a graphite crucible
06:30 PM tiwake: I have a feeling it won't work unless its a metal, or something that behaves like a metal
06:31 PM Cromaglious_: graphite is more a semiconductor though
06:31 PM tiwake: what? no... graphite is very conductive
06:31 PM tiwake: lol
06:33 PM tiwake: also, the guy running the makerspace here did not know what three-phase power was
06:33 PM tiwake: this is not a good sign
06:34 PM Cromaglious_: heh... we have 3phase nothing that uses it...
06:35 PM Cromaglious_: have a buddy with an inveter duty motor and a 3phase cap starter for it if I need 3 phase at home... it's a 5hp
06:36 PM tiwake: I'm tempted to not even do anything with the makerspace here because of the guy who runs it
06:36 PM tiwake: so abrasive
06:37 PM Cromaglious_: My wife is on the board here...
06:38 PM tiwake: they have a CNC plasma cutter, but nobody who knows how to run it
06:40 PM Cromaglious_: sheesh... it's a plasma cutter with a cnc table... the hard part is getting the lead in and lead outs working in your cam software... but you said you have the DesignCAM from the table company... so it's just sitting down and figuring out the software more than anything
06:40 PM tiwake: right
06:41 PM Cromaglious_: hell... copy the software and borrow the dongle and take it home and play with it...
06:43 PM tiwake: he would not likely let me turn the machine on to look at the software until I go though the safety junk "super strict policies in place..."
06:44 PM Cromaglious_: yeah... with most id10t carriers you need super strict safety ploices in place...
06:45 PM tiwake: carriers?
06:45 PM Cromaglious_: ID10T Carrrier == Idiots == Stupidios
06:46 PM Cromaglious_: Cretins, idiot, imbecils, morons
06:46 PM tiwake: mormons
06:46 PM Cromaglious_: hehe...
06:46 PM tiwake: I like how close those two words are
06:51 PM tiwake: Cromaglious_: so you know about makerspaces and how they are typically set up?
07:15 PM SLOMakerspace: Hey folks, I'm poking around upgrading our CNC to one of our better computers here in our Makerspace. Can linuxcnc be installed on an existing, newer ubuntu install? Specifically 17.04?
07:53 PM Cromaglious_: oh that's right... set the computer to sleep after 2 hours...
07:54 PM Cromaglious_: err 1 hour
07:55 PM Cromaglious_: now set to 5 hours
07:56 PM Cromaglious_: hmmm picoLCD trying finger out how to mesh it with HAL so I can use it as a pendant...
08:41 PM McBride36 is now known as Guest53143
08:42 PM Guest53143 is now known as McBride36