#linuxcnc Logs
Mar 31 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:08 AM Cromaglious_ is now known as Crom
12:30 AM SamSagaZ: hey guys, i want to build an mini lathe to make small pieces (maybe max size 100mm) i want to manage it with the PC, someone know some good project or similar?
01:10 AM MacGalempsy: SamSagaZ: did you checkout the LinixCNC forums?
01:13 AM archivist: SamSagaZ, can be easier to start with an ex education cnc mini lathe, ballscrews already fitted
01:13 AM archivist: Emoco or Denford etc
01:13 AM archivist: Emco
01:20 AM Deejay: moin
01:38 AM IchGucksLive: Morning from a Summer Day in Germany
01:41 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: ?
01:42 AM IchGucksLive: does someone know if i can grap the filename from loaded g-code within the system
01:46 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
03:14 AM MacGalempsy: yo
03:14 AM MacGalempsy: everyone behaving?
03:18 AM gonzo_: yes, badly
03:53 AM DavenportGuy: anyone have a favorite usb to eth they use??
05:41 AM XXCoder: heys
05:41 AM XXCoder: missed ich I guess
05:58 AM jthornton: morning
05:59 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:59 AM XXCoder: I finished the itchy fiberglass parts today yay :P
05:59 AM XXCoder: 3 days of that
05:59 AM XXCoder: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kniterate/kniterate-the-digital-knitting-machine?ref=NewsACMar3017
05:59 AM XXCoder: fancy
06:00 AM XXCoder: so hipster
06:00 AM XXCoder: 182k already
06:01 AM jthornton: fiberglass parts?
06:01 AM XXCoder: video shows 2 guys watching open cnc mill running. no protection, and they are so high they could fall into it
06:01 AM XXCoder: stupid.
06:01 AM XXCoder: jt yeah
06:01 AM XXCoder: parts made form fiberglass block.
06:01 AM XXCoder: super itchy.
06:02 AM XXCoder: it needs tooons coolant to be cut properly, and eats tools few times faster than alum
06:03 AM XXCoder: $4,699 for first kniterate lol
06:19 AM jthornton: I bet the glass eats tools, all carbide tooling?
06:20 AM XXCoder: mostly
06:20 AM XXCoder: we use pretty long and thin tool for groove, they lose .0002" to .001" each part
06:21 AM XXCoder: and evenually just throw em away. the rough cut is same tool but it never really get old as it keeps breaking after few parts.
06:21 AM XXCoder: record is 12 parts I think, and flip side record is 2 parts
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:22 AM jthornton: sounds like a pain in the ass part
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: still on
06:22 AM XXCoder: nope
06:22 AM XXCoder: ;)
06:22 AM XXCoder: whats up
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: did you get it that camotics is fixed
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: im in holiday since 8min
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: all exeaminas done
06:22 AM XXCoder: jthornton: making of? its buit pain in ass. but whats 100 times more pain in ass? sanding one feature to 0.500" +- .001"
06:23 AM XXCoder: ich sadly no
06:23 AM IchGucksLive: compile the 1.2.0 version
06:23 AM XXCoder: I p[layed with f-carve, its very light program
06:23 AM XXCoder: bit weird interface and it dont save settings
06:23 AM XXCoder: (could be wine problem not program)
06:24 AM IchGucksLive: what if i give you my 1.2.0 amd64 packed
06:24 AM XXCoder: nah its fine :) thanks thpough
06:24 AM IchGucksLive: can yoiu try this to install
06:24 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
06:25 AM XXCoder: bah my V cutters will arrive tuesday. just time to be useless till friday lol
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: the regional Majar came in today and saw all the cnc stuff
06:26 AM IchGucksLive: now wnats to have a wooden emblem of the regional ident
06:26 AM XXCoder: of course
06:27 AM XXCoder: oh yeah did you see my comment that estlcam author says he will make inlay video in a week?
06:32 AM IchGucksLive: lets see what he understands on inlay
06:32 AM IchGucksLive: best on this is heeks
06:33 AM XXCoder: yeah?
06:36 AM XXCoder: more upgrades to his cnc heh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BtEXiGb_kg
06:38 AM jthornton: ah a new video from MyFordBoy
06:38 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:38 AM XXCoder: its interesting that he never had cnc. I guess he was offered one, he thinks "why not its free and im bored"
06:41 AM IchGucksLive: im off noon
06:42 AM XXCoder: later
06:52 AM jthornton: someone made my frame foot http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1821456
06:52 AM XXCoder: nice
06:53 AM XXCoder: people so rarely post mkes
06:53 AM jthornton: http://www.thingiverse.com/make:319996
06:53 AM jthornton: he put a giant rubber stopper on it
06:53 AM XXCoder: saw
06:57 AM MattyMatt: Myford is one word. https://www.myford.co.uk/
06:57 AM MattyMatt: he's a boy with a Myford, not a Ford :)
06:59 AM * jthornton ignores the grammer police
06:59 AM MattyMatt: just doing my bit for british exports
06:59 AM XXCoder: fancy
07:00 AM MattyMatt: By Britsh. you know it made sense, once upon a time
07:00 AM jthornton: I do know what a myford is
07:00 AM XXCoder: wow
07:00 AM XXCoder: his kiln is getting aged
07:00 AM XXCoder: I wonder how often he uses it, since he made it
07:00 AM MattyMatt: I was surprised to learn that bridgeports were all made in Britain for a while, before they went to india
07:01 AM XXCoder: loved that video series
07:03 AM MattyMatt: doubleboost has a neat casting setup. he keeps his sand in a box like an ice cream freezer
07:05 AM MattyMatt: he does all the setip on sliding boards over the box, so he can sweep it all back into the box
07:05 AM MattyMatt: compact and efficient
07:06 AM * jthornton wonders when the Tarot 680 Pro parts will start hitting the mailbox
07:07 AM XXCoder: bit curious why bridgeport went under
07:15 AM MattyMatt: complacency usually. not enough innovation
07:16 AM R2E4_bevins1: What mode do we have to be in to set DOUT in?
07:16 AM XXCoder: too bad
07:16 AM jthornton: still fighting dout?
07:17 AM R2E4_bevins1: lol, it punches hard...
07:17 AM R2E4_bevins1: and I'm not fast enough to get out of the way.
07:18 AM R2E4_bevins1: I am gettin cant do that (EMC_MOTION_SET_DOUT) in auto mode with interpreter waiting.
07:18 AM R2E4_bevins1: I am guessing I cant do that in auto mode....lol
07:20 AM R2E4_bevins1: I built the whole remap while interpreter in preview mode, and it is working 100%. When I switched to milltask mode it spits at me....
07:28 AM jthornton: what is preview mode?
07:31 AM R2E4_bevins1: maybe I have wording wrong. There are two interpreters at work, one in the UI doing preview and the other one as part of milltask actually moving the machine.
07:33 AM R2E4_bevins1: So if you dont check self.task and exit if it is preview instance when you start linuxcnc it will run the remap and execute code etc......
07:35 AM R2E4_bevins1: the self.task property will be true in milltask instance, and false when in preview.
07:36 AM R2E4_bevins1: So in my remap I check self.task and if it is false I exit. I built my remap without exiting so when I started Lcnc, it would run the remap code right when it starts. I did that for ease of debugging.
07:36 AM R2E4_bevins1: I see now why that was the wrong thing to do.
07:37 AM R2E4_bevins1: cause now it dont work..... lol
07:41 AM jthornton: I installed dRonin on my linux pc but can't figure out how to run it lol
07:41 AM R2E4_bevins1: I dont understand why you cant set DOUT while in auto, and there is very docs on this.
07:42 AM R2E4_bevins1: very little docs
07:42 AM jthornton: I can only add to the docs when I understand how something works :)
07:43 AM R2E4_bevins1: Hopefully I will understand when I get through this....
07:45 AM jthornton: then you can explain it to me and I can add that to the docs
07:46 AM R2E4_bevins1: Who's going to explain it to me? ...lol
07:46 AM XXCoder: the future you
07:46 AM XXCoder: one that did it hard wat
07:46 AM XXCoder: and then invented time machine which is worse
07:49 AM XXCoder: its now buyable. https://www.surreynanosystems.com/vantablack/vantablack-s-vis
07:49 AM XXCoder: but unfortunately "contact us" means very expensive
07:52 AM XXCoder: 40x40x3mm sample 300 euro
07:53 AM XXCoder: dang.
08:26 AM SamSagaZ: thanks gusy
08:32 AM * Sabotender hugs archivist
08:33 AM Sabotender: hey I am seriously interested in building a quality cnc mill/router and was wondering if someone would be willing to help me buy quality parts for it. There's no rush, so highlight me if you find the time to do so. It would be greatly appreciated
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: What do you mean by 'quality'
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: And what are you hoping to do.
08:36 AM XXCoder: yeh its better to discribve what machine is expected to do than qualty statement
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: The answer for something capable of driving a 6" face-mill across hardened steel and doing 1mm grooves in aluminium is slightly different
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: though both machines might be 'quality'
08:36 AM XXCoder: yep
08:37 AM XXCoder: high qulity nema11 cant drive steel cutting machine for example
08:37 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: well I am working on an EE design and I need to be able to make some prototype chassis for it.
08:38 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: I am just buying a 3D printer, but most of the pre made cnc routers ive seen are either over priced, or crap, with nothing in the middle.
08:39 AM XXCoder: alum chassis?
08:39 AM SpeedEvil: What do you mean by 'make a prototype chassis
08:39 AM Sabotender: basically I need a bit of help with someone pointing at something and saying 'get this, not that'
08:39 AM XXCoder: I can tell only some of it
08:39 AM SpeedEvil: 3d printing, combined with cut aluminium sheet, folded in a vice, and cut with a hacksaw can make a lot
08:40 AM XXCoder: like dont bother with tb6560, tb6600 seems to work well for me
08:40 AM Sabotender: XXCoder: yes, preferably aluminium, but possibly cheaper material first, like a cheap plastic, but eventually aluminium would be good
08:40 AM XXCoder: (stepper controller)
08:40 AM MattyMatt: sheet metal work is likely best done by hand. you need a drill press, hacksaws and files (or a bandsaw if you're posh) and a bending brake
08:40 AM XXCoder: honestly that user case any aliexpress cnc router is likely able to do it
08:40 AM SpeedEvil: A vice and/or vice grips can work for the small stuff, rather than a bending brake
08:40 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: well I want both. the 3D printer would be used for parts that would be difficult for the mill to make
08:40 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: you've not said what you want the mill for
08:40 AM XXCoder: im thinking 1-3 mm thick sheets
08:41 AM SpeedEvil: cutting out sheets prior to bending is rather easier than machining large things out of metal
08:41 AM SpeedEvil: ^thick metal
08:41 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: well I want something that accurate enough to cut blocks of aluminium
08:41 AM Sabotender: nothing harder than that
08:41 AM MattyMatt: you can cut alu on a laser, but not 3mm
08:41 AM XXCoder: ah blocks
08:41 AM SpeedEvil: Then you're looking more at a relatively large and heavy machine.
08:42 AM XXCoder: indeed
08:42 AM SpeedEvil: Think more bridgeport, not 'lightweight CNC router'
08:42 AM SpeedEvil: As in several hundred kilos, and lots of cast iron
08:42 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: well nothing more than an inch or so in thickness
08:43 AM XXCoder: my cnc router probably can do alum blocks but light cuts it would take time :P
08:43 AM XXCoder: and much faster tool wear
08:43 AM SpeedEvil: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-BRJ-Turret-Milling-Machine/201867424417?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3D3e7205e9b46c4eadbf9816bd47c3c4cc%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D322461176015 as a random example of the class
08:43 AM MattyMatt: my plywood machine doesn't like cutting alu. way too much chatter
08:44 AM XXCoder: havent tried mine. im reasonable sure it can do thinner alum but thicker is unknown
08:44 AM XXCoder: thats not very expensive.
08:45 AM MattyMatt: horizontal mills aren't so versatile, but http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ajax-milling-machine/222452769667
08:45 AM MattyMatt: even more not expensive
08:45 AM SpeedEvil: Being willing to take very fine cuts and do multiple passes can convert an inexpensive machine with little capacity into an endless source of frustration and broken bits.
08:45 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: these are pieces that will be sandwiched together and held with screws.
08:45 AM XXCoder: speed indeed
08:45 AM Sabotender: with the pcb and components in the middle
08:45 AM XXCoder: thats why me doing anything alum besides sheets will be fairly rare
08:45 AM Sabotender: not looking to get too crazy here
08:45 AM XXCoder: or just rare lol
08:46 AM XXCoder: sabot it ramps up quickly post-alum sheet
08:46 AM MattyMatt: with a good angle plate, that horizontal mill would work
08:46 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: do you have some pictures of what you're trying to make.
08:46 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: yeah I don't need something that fantastic
08:46 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: sure, moment
08:47 AM SpeedEvil: In general, you can do a _lot_ with a simple $80 bandsaw, aluminium sheet, a very basic brake, screws and a hammer
08:47 AM MattyMatt: with really thin materials, clamping is a pain, so lasers and plasmas start to shine
08:48 AM SpeedEvil: If you want CNC, you can just draw a line on the metal, follow it with the bandsaw while making stepper noises.
08:49 AM MattyMatt: use the 3d printer with a sharpie on to draw the lines
08:49 AM SpeedEvil: But the above mill would (for example) let you make arbitrary shaped 2" deep slots in solid blocks of metal 1/2" or so wide, something that is just impractical often to do by hand
08:49 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1yCW8JVXXXXbSXXXXq6xXFXXX0/220763815/HTB1yCW8JVXXXXbSXXXXq6xXFXXX0.jpg
08:49 AM Sabotender: I want to make stuff like that
08:49 AM XXCoder: fancy
08:49 AM SpeedEvil: If you actually want that sort of thing, you need something more like the bridgeport than a 3d printer
08:50 AM XXCoder: or real cnc mill
08:50 AM Sabotender: really?
08:50 AM SpeedEvil: It's got lots of complex milled features that are not simply replicatable with folded sheet
08:50 AM jym: ...to the tune of Mario Bros https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtGA4phu2X8#t=43
08:51 AM SpeedEvil: Of course, the question then becomes do you actually need that shape.
08:51 AM Sabotender: I dont need that shape, but I need to at the very least need to be able to cut that deep
08:51 AM SpeedEvil: For example, making it in three parts - top, bottom which are mostly flat with holes, and then a side, ...
08:51 AM Sabotender: yes, I can do that
08:51 AM SpeedEvil: Then you're going to need a fairly heavy machine, and are not really going to be able to go with something you can lift.
08:51 AM XXCoder: jym: too bad I'll never be able to enjou that lol
08:52 AM SpeedEvil: If you can make it from folded aluminium screwed together - the screws can be quite concealed often - or extrusions - you can need remarkably little in the way of tooling.
08:52 AM jym: XXCoder: No worries, you really aren't missing all that much.
08:52 AM SpeedEvil: If you want to make it from solid blocks - no
08:52 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: well it is going to be a sandwiched piece with two sides and maybe a third piece in the middle
08:53 AM Sabotender: I really don't think I need anything special to do what I want
08:53 AM MattyMatt: 3 print, lost PLA cast, machine important mating surfaces (on a manual mill)
08:53 AM SpeedEvil: You can buy rectangular extrusions which you can use for the middle part, and then sheet for the top and bottom
08:53 AM Sabotender: what is the bare minimum that I need to cut aluminium that deep?
08:54 AM Sabotender: two pieces, maybe three, that will be screwed together
08:54 AM MattyMatt: you don't need to cut full depth in one go
08:54 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: agreed
08:54 AM SpeedEvil: why are you wanting to cut the middle part, rather than make it from sheet and bend it
08:54 AM XXCoder: but not so cheap that shallow cuts take forever
08:54 AM XXCoder: theres a sweey spot
08:55 AM SpeedEvil: You can also in principle make very nice cases with folded aluminium, welded on the corners and then finished properly
08:55 AM MattyMatt: get a bridgport. make some chips, then decide if EE is really your thing after all :)
08:55 AM SpeedEvil: But that's rather less CNCy
08:56 AM JT-Shop: must be something else wrong with the windblows pc changed the video card and it still shuts down
08:56 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: im not trying to do anythig super fancy here
08:56 AM MattyMatt: I need to jam a new fan on the vid card on mine
08:56 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: what are you meaning by 'not super fancy'
08:56 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/4-piece-aluminum-enclosure-control-box-100-60-13mm-electronics-project-box-szomk-2014-new-customizable/32240942037.html
08:57 AM jym: MattyMatt: 20" whole house fan should work
08:57 AM SpeedEvil: For example
08:57 AM XXCoder: EE = electrics engineer?
08:57 AM SpeedEvil: if you want something servicable but don't really want to get into the machining.
08:57 AM MattyMatt: rip out the old then glue a 80mm one over the hole. turn a 1 slot card into 2
08:57 AM SpeedEvil: Find a suitable extruded case, and machine your holes on it.
08:58 AM enleth: If anyone's willing to help - I'm still looking for someone in the US to help me sell off a servo drive, it's in the US right now, a friend of mine took it with him, I need someone he can send it to, who can store it until I find a buyer and drop it off at USPS when I do.
08:58 AM MattyMatt: suitable extruded case = sardine tin :)
08:58 AM XXCoder: Sabotender: honestly im pretty sure you can do it with cheap BOB, NEMA 34s, 1k watts spindle and decent frame
08:58 AM jym: MattyMatt: Pfff 20" whole house fan, jus use it as a cover replacement
08:58 AM jym: MattyMatt: or, liquid cooling
08:59 AM XXCoder: passive liquid cooling
08:59 AM jym: LN2
08:59 AM XXCoder: utterly reliable if I recall though with some kind of limitions I forgot
08:59 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: sorry I can't answer your questions
08:59 AM Sabotender: I just want to cut aluminum
08:59 AM Sabotender: something similar to the picture I posted
08:59 AM Sabotender: you can ignore the side cuts
08:59 AM MattyMatt: passive aggresive cooling. give it a frosty look
09:00 AM Sabotender: you want exact figures and I can't give it to you
09:00 AM SpeedEvil: The above thing is specifically designed to show off the 'one piece' look.
09:00 AM jym: table saw and carbid tipped blade cuts aluminum awesomely
09:00 AM jym: ...and puts sparkle in your hair
09:00 AM SpeedEvil: The only easy way to make it is with a CNC mill capable of doing fairly deep plunge cuts into aluminium - anything else will tend to leave lines or seams on the case.
09:00 AM XXCoder: something like http://www.anandtech.com/show/10398/raijintek-shows-off-pumpless-liquid-cooling-system heh
09:01 AM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: or do a rough/finish passes
09:01 AM SpeedEvil: You can make functionally identical cases that do not look the same with much simpler hardware
09:01 AM XXCoder: many of jobs at work use roughing then finish to get that clean one cut look
09:01 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: perhaps, yes. But you're not doing it simply on an engraver class machine
09:01 AM MattyMatt: those look like prototypes for IM cases
09:01 AM Sabotender: I am not intersted in cutting aluminium thicker than about 1 in.
09:02 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: 1" thick aluminium implies quite a rigid machine.
09:02 AM XXCoder: speed indeed! thats why I was talking about more stronger nema 34 steppers used for machine. that and 1kw spindle
09:02 AM XXCoder: some necent rail system, rigid metal framework
09:03 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: you need really quite rigid ways or slides, and a very rigidly mounted spindle compared to your typical engraver
09:03 AM MattyMatt: off the shelf, something like a Sable 2015 might do you
09:03 AM XXCoder: my cnc router is very much a engraver lol
09:04 AM SpeedEvil: Working out ways to get a cosmetically acceptable finish with limited tooling is an art.
09:04 AM SpeedEvil: you can make the above bits with a file, hammer, chisel, and several bits of steel ground into the right shape.
09:04 AM MattyMatt: or copy myfordboy, buy a banggood engraver, then go out the garage and upgrade the hell out of it
09:04 AM SpeedEvil: It's not going to be fun, but it can be done.
09:05 AM XXCoder: Sabotender: is that thingy largest size to extent?
09:05 AM SpeedEvil: In order to do it cheaply, you pretty much need to integrate aesthetic design and understanding of the cost of tooling and production, and costs of labour.
09:06 AM SpeedEvil: Plus, are you making one or a thousand
09:06 AM MattyMatt: 3d print it and spray it silver
09:06 AM SpeedEvil: I imagine several people here in channel might be willing to do the thousand for you, so that might be an option too
09:07 AM XXCoder: insomia sucks
09:07 AM XXCoder: laters
09:07 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: night/morning/...
09:07 AM XXCoder: by this point its morning yeah.
09:07 AM XXCoder: time for me to pretend being dead. laters
09:07 AM MattyMatt: shapeways do titanium sintered, if you want fast and good, and don't care about cheap
09:08 AM MattyMatt: €65 per cm³
09:08 AM SpeedEvil: Or gold, if you really don't care about cheap.
09:10 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMP_AfiNlX4
09:10 AM Sabotender: XXCoder: the example picture?
09:10 AM SpeedEvil: you may find this series useful for an overview into various sorts of machining.
09:10 AM Sabotender: yeah that's about as thick as I want to work with. I can even work with 1/2 an inch
09:11 AM SpeedEvil: Why do you think you need to mill this at all?
09:11 AM SpeedEvil: Versus making the case other ways
09:11 AM SpeedEvil: Actually - the above series of videos are proabbly too advanced and not helpful
09:11 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: the thousand? you mean making a thousand? well, possibly, but these are just prototypes.
09:12 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: is this device meant to be cosmetically awesome, or a tool.
09:12 AM Sabotender: I don't understand the question. I think it is because all the other ways I can think of shaping metal, die casts, etc
09:13 AM MattyMatt: does your college have a machine shop?
09:13 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: you mean what I am designing? it is supposed to be end-user nice-looking
09:14 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: it does, but I doubt they would allow me to make things at high number
09:15 AM MattyMatt: for high numbers, maybe diecasting is good, but you need to make the dies
09:15 AM gregcnc: Have you quoted getting them made yet?
09:15 AM SpeedEvil: If you want to make lots, you want to avoid milling large amounts of metal, and concentrate on technologies that lend themselves to mass production without large investments.
09:16 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: example?
09:17 AM gregcnc: I wonder what ever happened to the guy a year ago who wanted to make similar cases in plastic. 9 months later he had a machine that still wasn't running
09:19 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: yeah that's not me
09:19 AM Sabotender: I am not the type of person who makes an investment in something and not use it
09:19 AM gregcnc: neither was he
09:20 AM gregcnc: are you a machinist?
09:20 AM gregcnc: Everyone starts somewhere but if the product is ready to go it may be better to just get the housing made while you climb the machining curve
09:20 AM gregcnc: if this is a path of learning machinig that's a different stroy
09:20 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: casting, injection moulding, ...
09:21 AM SpeedEvil: If you're wanting to make a large production run of milled cases, you end up with needing a lot of CNC
09:21 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: I don't think those are things you can do at home at a decent price. I am not spending thousands of dollars. I dont wnat an industrial device
09:21 AM Sabotender: that is out of the qustion
09:22 AM MattyMatt: make one in the college shop, and see how long it takes you
09:22 AM SpeedEvil: Clever design can make remarkably good looking things inexpensively.
09:23 AM SpeedEvil: Sticking to one idea 'it must be milled' - means in general it's going to be expensive.
09:23 AM MattyMatt: fail fast, fail cheap
09:23 AM SpeedEvil: Finding the right extrusion, finishing it appropriately, and trimming well can be quite cheap and look good.
09:23 AM MattyMatt: sardine tin
09:23 AM MattyMatt: altoids, for servicability
09:24 AM SpeedEvil: Trying to hide indications of the way it's assembled is in general expensive.
09:24 AM SpeedEvil: Make features of it.
09:25 AM * Sabotender sighs
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: Sorry there aren't simple answers.
09:26 AM Sabotender: nevermind, ill do some research elsewhere, because I know a mill CAN cut aluminum. it is not impossible
09:26 AM Sabotender: thanks though
09:26 AM gregcnc: yeah design manufacturing ain't easy
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: It's not impossible.
09:26 AM MattyMatt: so what you need is a mill
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: It's a tradeoff.
09:26 AM Sabotender: you are making it sound as if it is
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: Err - no, I linked to something that would do the above trivially.
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: (when CNCd)
09:27 AM gregcnc: not impossible, get quotes then decide if you can do cheaper youreself
09:27 AM jym: sand casting
09:27 AM SpeedEvil: It is hard to do if you want it cheap, and in a manner that is not simply going to frustrate you and take 50 hours to make one case, and $500 in broken toolbits.
09:27 AM Sabotender: I am asking what I CAN do, at a reasonable price, not what I cannot do.
09:27 AM MattyMatt: do they have CNC in the school shop? if so, mill dies for diecasting or plastic IM
09:28 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: and you seem to have set on the idea of a milled case as the only way, which limits your options considerably
09:28 AM gregcnc: your expectations of the product may not be the same as other's
09:28 AM MattyMatt: my machine cost under $500, but it's only really good at milling wood
09:28 AM MattyMatt: of you want a nice oak product, DWID
09:28 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: because all those other methods aren't for an in home studio type thing
09:29 AM SpeedEvil: You never said you were trying to do it in an in-home studio.
09:29 AM gregcnc: milling is fine, but there are guys running 500$ mills at home and 50,000USD mills
09:30 AM SpeedEvil: Milling is basically not an option here for cheap and easy production of what you want in a small shop.
09:30 AM SpeedEvil: Or rather - what you have linked
09:30 AM jym: 3d aluminum printer would work in a home studio, only $80K USD
09:30 AM gregcnc: what is the projected price of this part?
09:31 AM jym: gregcnc: $3.99 with free shipping
09:31 AM SpeedEvil: Making out of extrusion, and sheet, and finishing the edges nicely with a beltsander and polish, for example can come out quite cheap indeed. With modest labour.
09:31 AM gregcnc: yes i hope he's not trying to compete with chinaco
09:32 AM MattyMatt: or apple
09:32 AM gregcnc: exactly
09:32 AM gregcnc: and what are apple made on?
09:33 AM MattyMatt: seems IM to me. I got iphone 3
09:33 AM MattyMatt: plastic is very shiny tho. I suspect delrin
09:36 AM MattyMatt: metal bezel either stamped or diecast
09:36 AM MattyMatt: that's an efficient way to make complex panels, stamp them out
09:36 AM MattyMatt: make the dies in the school shop, then get an arbour press to make clamshell halves at home
09:36 AM Sabotender: okay, last question, what can I expect to do with a machine which costs less than 500USD
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: cut light sheet and engrave it.
09:36 AM MattyMatt: Sable 2015 is $500
09:36 AM Sabotender: what is light sheet
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: Though if MattyMatt has one, he's probably better placed
09:36 AM MattyMatt: naah, my machine is plywood & drawer slides
09:37 AM Sabotender: I really need to be able to cut something at least 1/2 inch aluminium.
09:37 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: Any performance on 1/2" aluminium will be extremely questionable on that size of machine, and involve many, many passes and possibly broken toolbits.
09:38 AM Sabotender: I can sandwich the pieces together to get the complete size, but can't go any thinner than that
09:38 AM SpeedEvil: especially if you're meaning 'milling deep pockets in'
09:38 AM jdh: pockets would take forever
09:38 AM SpeedEvil: Why can't you simply bend sheet for the corners?
09:38 AM gregcnc: seems like that machine does OK with engraving and pcb,
09:39 AM Sabotender: SpeedEvil: because I need strength. thin sheet metal is not going to work
09:39 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: bending 25*5mm aluminium is something that can be done in a vice.
09:39 AM jdh: your budget does not match your needs. change one of them
09:40 AM SpeedEvil: (to make a 25mm thick 'middle part')
09:40 AM Sabotender: so a 500USD machine will not cut into 1/2 in aluminium?
09:40 AM SpeedEvil: Not in a useful manner.
09:40 AM jdh: I have had bad luck bending 3mm aluminum without a lot of heat
09:40 AM Sabotender: if not, I guess I have no choice than to pay exorbitant prices to get someone to do it for me.
09:40 AM SpeedEvil: jym: inch wide
09:41 AM Sabotender: inch thick
09:41 AM jdh: not unless you luck in to a used good machinebfor 500
09:41 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: you don't need inch thick in order to make inch deep in a case.
09:41 AM gregcnc: the prices for prototypes are not exorbitant, they arepresent the real investment it takes to do such work with a profit
09:41 AM Sabotender: maybe I can get lucky and find a cheap used REAL cnc mill that I can use at home
09:41 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: they are pretty ridiculous
09:41 AM jdh: it happens
09:42 AM gregcnc: i asked if you got quotes and you did not reply
09:42 AM Sabotender: especially when there are many modifications in the design between prototypes
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: Sabotender: you bend a 500mm*25mm*5mm into a square, with nice corners, and then you finish the remaining corner with a bezel or connector feature or something, then you attach two faceplates to it.
09:42 AM MattyMatt: cnc mill is just a mill with a computer turning the handles for you
09:42 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: oh sorry I did not see, yes I got quotes
09:42 AM jym: This is frickin awesome... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4CZrnEFxU
09:42 AM Sabotender: and one-offs are VERY expensive
09:43 AM gregcnc: sure, setup programming takes time
09:43 AM SpeedEvil: With glue and a file and sander, you can make it look almost one piece - apart from the glue-line.
09:43 AM SpeedEvil: As an example prototype.
09:44 AM SpeedEvil: Or you can make the edges features.
09:44 AM SpeedEvil: The above engraver certainly can do bend-lines and edge decoration on such a bar.
09:44 AM Sabotender: I'd be willing to start with wood, but this is something I would really like to be able to do at home. I would like to make my own chassis at home, but it looks like it is near impossible unless I have a heavy machine to do it. I think my question is answered. So, what kind of heavy machine would I need to be able to get the kind of work done, at home
09:45 AM Sabotender: if I can get a machine model, I can start looking around for used units
09:45 AM gregcnc: how large is this part?
09:45 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: these are hand held consumer devices
09:46 AM skunkworks_: You are probably looking at $6k
09:46 AM skunkworks_: minimum
09:46 AM skunkworks_: unless you build your own
09:46 AM MattyMatt: tormach?
09:46 AM skunkworks_: yes
09:46 AM skunkworks_: or similar
09:47 AM jym: hammond enclosures and a cnc router would do it
09:47 AM Sabotender: no more than than a couple inches thick, up to 5 or 6 inches long, 3 to 4 inches wide
09:47 AM Sabotender: skunkworks_: how much if I build my own
09:47 AM Sabotender: I'd be willing to build the darn thing if it would save me some money
09:47 AM MattyMatt: small machines tend to lack rigidity
09:47 AM skunkworks_: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3501&category=1241045623
09:47 AM skunkworks_: but will do aluminum ok
09:47 AM gregcnc: what have you built in the past?
09:48 AM skunkworks_: Sabotender, I would spend a day on CNCZONE.CO<
09:48 AM skunkworks_: Sabotender, I would spend a day on CNCZONE.COM
09:48 AM skunkworks_: To see what others have done
09:48 AM MattyMatt: and go make some chips in the school shop
09:49 AM Sabotender: skunkworks_: that is a decent price. Can it cut aluminium at the specifications that I listed? Can it be used at volume?
09:49 AM gregcnc: volume?
09:49 AM skunkworks_: if you are doing production you would need coolant control...
09:50 AM R2E4_bevins1: Anyone know what mode I have to be in to set motion.digital-out-XX? I am getting "cant do that (EMC_MOTION_SET_DOUT) while in auto and interpreter waiting
09:50 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: like, if I needed to make 50. some products aren't designed to make lots of a single item. what is the word for it?
09:50 AM gregcnc: depends how fast you want to make them
09:50 AM MattyMatt: slow
09:50 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: not very fast.
09:50 AM gregcnc: 50 days?
09:50 AM Sabotender: no, that is silly
09:50 AM Sabotender: 50 a week
09:50 AM gregcnc: real questions
09:51 AM gregcnc: so who's going to change tools on this machine?
09:51 AM Sabotender: 10 per day
09:51 AM Sabotender: I will be doing all the work
09:51 AM skunkworks_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veiyUVV4a5I
09:52 AM skunkworks_: $6+k
09:52 AM MattyMatt: he started with a sieg/taig X2
09:52 AM MattyMatt: now he has a haas :)
09:52 AM skunkworks_: :)
09:52 AM gregcnc: how much of his income is from YT?
09:53 AM Sabotender: ah ha! I think the word I was looking for is 'workload'
09:53 AM MattyMatt: very little I'm guessing
09:53 AM MattyMatt: YT might buy his cameras
09:53 AM skunkworks_: That would be my guess. I think he probably does youtube for publicity and free stuff :)
09:54 AM skunkworks_: Tormach does have a high speed spindle option also. Don't know if that is compatable with the 440 though
09:55 AM MattyMatt: that's one advantage to scratchbuild. you have all the options
09:55 AM skunkworks_: You also need a lot of incidentals.. tooling, vises and so on
09:55 AM Sabotender: skunkworks_: so I would need something like that tormach?
09:55 AM gregcnc: at minimum
09:55 AM skunkworks_: in my opinion... Minimum
09:56 AM skunkworks_: (I would buy a used vmc with a dead control.. ;)
09:56 AM Sabotender: I would spend 6K on something like that if, and only if that is the only machining tool I would need. and it has a long life, heavy duty like 10 years+ (with reasonable maintenance of course)
09:57 AM Sabotender: I don't want to spend that much and have it fall apart on me
09:57 AM skunkworks_: read cnczone - there is a tormach forum.
09:57 AM MattyMatt: it's a question of how many parts you could make before it's worn out
09:57 AM skunkworks_: see what others think
09:57 AM Sabotender: skunkworks_: did you see the image of the kind of chassis I wanted to machine?
09:58 AM gregcnc: any of those guys that started with tormach and made it to the point were they own "real" machines lauch about them. except nyccnc (i think he gets paid or is superfanboy)
09:58 AM Sabotender: I just wanted to make cuts for displays, buttons, space for PCBs, etc
09:58 AM gregcnc: lauch/laugh
09:59 AM gregcnc: but it all depends on the speed and quality of machine parts expected
09:59 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: they laugh about the tormach machines?
09:59 AM * JT-Shop tests to see if a different power supply works
09:59 AM MattyMatt: F-14 pilots laughed at F-15 pilots
10:00 AM MattyMatt: tormach is overkill IMO, for 1000 parts
10:00 AM gregcnc: in the end everyone starts somwhere
10:00 AM MattyMatt: but then I chose plywood and drawer slides
10:01 AM MattyMatt: $6k machine for 1000 parts is good value in the long run
10:01 AM gregcnc: if you're set on being a machinist, you have a huge learning curve ahead
10:01 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: well, as I am an electrical engineer, it is either I get into machining myself, or pay for someone to machine something for me every time I need a chassis made.
10:02 AM MattyMatt: yeah cnc doesn't get you out of learning general metalwork. that's something I learned pretty quick
10:02 AM gregcnc: can you make more money doing EE or machining?
10:02 AM Sabotender: it is kind of like I am also a programmer (C and ASM) because it comes with the territory of working with MCUs
10:04 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: I am not sure, as I have yet to make money machining things.
10:04 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: why do you believe a tormach is overkill?
10:06 AM gregcnc: http://tinyurl.com/mbkq93k this guy started with a CNCed G0704 now has a Robodrill
10:08 AM Sabotender: you lot have to trust me when I say that it costs a LOT of money to get a chassis designed and manufactured. It still costs even when you have the complete design specifications. I am already dealing with cost issues with having PCBs professionally manufactured during the prototyping process. They are used to making things at volume. A single six layer PCB prototype (they dont care if it is a prototype or production) runs about 300USD for
10:08 AM Sabotender: one. Sure I can save a little money ordering 100 of them, but that is dumb, what if there is a bug in the design? It means I would be stuck with 99 coasters.
10:08 AM MattyMatt: tormach is good, it's the $6k that would kill me
10:08 AM Sabotender: a robodrill, eh
10:09 AM gregcnc: if you have a marketable product today, you have to consider opportunity cost
10:10 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: I think it would kill anyone who wasn't made of money
10:11 AM Sabotender: tormach 440?
10:11 AM MattyMatt: $110/month finance option on that Sieg
10:12 AM MattyMatt: get Momma to underwrite it
10:13 AM Sabotender: momma is no longer living, and I don't have a sugar daddy either ;-)
10:13 AM MattyMatt: did you inherit her house?
10:14 AM MattyMatt: sorry for sounding mercenary and all
10:15 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: actually I had a house built
10:15 AM Sabotender: well, I won't take up anymore of your time, I wont be able to prototype on a 500usd budget, definitely
10:16 AM MattyMatt: having you own house changes the economics somewhat, if you can afford to hoard broken machines while you restore them slowly
10:16 AM jdh: and have time
10:16 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: I have my own workshop. im self employed
10:16 AM * MattyMatt has opinions about college and free time
10:18 AM MattyMatt: craiglist is the place to look for machines that are too heavy for anyone else to care about, so can be had for a song
10:18 AM Sabotender: I repair consumer electronics for a living.
10:19 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: thats a smashing idea, I was just thinking about that, I just didnt know the names of 'good' machines, and im deathly afraid of purchasing crap
10:21 AM MattyMatt: most big machines can be repaired but that's a whole new rabbithole
10:22 AM MattyMatt: and most old machines can be upgraded to cnc
10:22 AM Sabotender: well I don't mind purchasing new, I am just all about longevity. I want to get good long use out of something, my money's worth, if you will
10:22 AM MattyMatt: but all that needs machining skills to begin with
10:23 AM MattyMatt: surely it only needs to last long enough to pay for itself
10:23 AM MattyMatt: if it's used for production
10:23 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: yeah I am more EE and less machinist. :-P
10:23 AM Sabotender: but as with programming, it is a skill I am willing to learn
10:24 AM MattyMatt: cnc kinda is programming. gcode
10:24 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: also with a unit that hefty, metal isn't the only thing that will be able to work with. I imagine it would be able to cut though wood and plastic like butter
10:25 AM MattyMatt: yep
10:26 AM MattyMatt: they have their own fun things to worry about tho. wood splits and plastic melts
10:26 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: wood catch fire from friction maybe? ;-)
10:26 AM MattyMatt: that has happened to me
10:26 AM Sabotender: lol oh lordy
10:27 AM MattyMatt: and I can't use coolant, because the machine is made of wood
10:27 AM Sabotender: your...cnc machine is made of wood?
10:27 AM MattyMatt: yep
10:28 AM MattyMatt: http://imgur.com/a/DNWJq
10:28 AM Sabotender: ooh impressive
10:28 AM {HD}: MattyMatt: Holy shit...That is awesomly jerry rigged!
10:28 AM MattyMatt: wood machine that cuts wood, not the force multiplier I was hoping for
10:29 AM MattyMatt: I can cut wood myself, obviously :)
10:29 AM Sabotender: I just noticed that everyone else stopped talking the moment we went up to the more expensive gear
10:29 AM Sabotender: ;-)
10:29 AM {HD}: MattyMatt: You even put a 4th axis on it! How well did that work?
10:29 AM MattyMatt: well you showed parts that were obviously made on something expensive
10:30 AM Sabotender: MattyMatt: that was the closest example I could find
10:30 AM jdh: my $1500 + time grizzly will cut .5" aluminum
10:30 AM gregcnc: because 500$ and expensive don't mix
10:30 AM MattyMatt: 4th axis works fine, for little plastic pulleys. when I put a hex on an alu one tho, I tore a tooth off my carbide endmill
10:31 AM MattyMatt: that was the chatter from the machine frame, not the 4th axis fault
10:31 AM gregcnc: a single face mill to finish the face of your part in one pass because it's cosmetically desirable will cost that much
10:31 AM Sabotender: gregcnc: you mean 500USD and aluminium don't mix
10:32 AM MattyMatt: not if speed, finish and tool life are important
10:32 AM gregcnc: what i see is a large gap between expectations and reality.
10:32 AM JT-Shop: MattyMatt: nice!
10:33 AM jdh: my $80 face mill does mirror finish on 6061
10:33 AM JT-Shop: jdh: which one is that?
10:34 AM jdh: shars. 2.5 or 3, can't remember
10:34 AM gregcnc: with holder and inserts?
10:35 AM jdh: yep
10:35 AM MattyMatt: myfordboy's stopped using his flycutter. I liked that. big flat disc
10:35 AM MattyMatt: seems safer than a normal one
10:37 AM MattyMatt: it was like a 1 toothed face mill
10:37 AM MattyMatt: now he has a posh one with inserts
10:38 AM {HD}: I want to do some 4th axis stuff what is your favorite CAD/CAM for setting it up? I think what I use now is most suited for 2d stuff...
10:38 AM MattyMatt: hand written gcode for all 4th axis I've done
10:38 AM MattyMatt: rehearsed in blender
10:39 AM MattyMatt: mill a tooth, rotate, etc
10:39 AM MattyMatt: I haven't seen what F360 can do with it yet
10:41 AM {HD}: I want to make a virgin mary idol on my 4th axis so, I think hand writting gcode might be a little hard for me.
10:43 AM MattyMatt: I'd probably write a script to do the basic copy lathe thing
10:44 AM MattyMatt: but doing the fine details with a V bit, beyond my paygrade I think
10:45 AM JT-Shop: swapping power supplies on the windblows 7 pc seemed to fix it
10:45 AM {HD}: MattyMatt: I was kinda kidding about the virgin mary but, something more like that detail and not just teeth or gears. Ill sniff around on the forums and see what people think.
10:45 AM MattyMatt: I merged my gcode output script with yoyoek's 3 axis profiling one, but I never ported it to blender 2.5
10:46 AM MattyMatt: well, I need horseys for chess sets, now I've got 4 axis :)
10:47 AM MattyMatt: same deal
10:47 AM MattyMatt: exact same deal if you carve a Mormons vs Baptists set
10:48 AM MattyMatt: Fenians v Methodists
10:49 AM {HD}: MattyMatt: Milling custom chess peices would be awesome!
10:49 AM MattyMatt: I'm only tempted if they are lawn chess. giant pieces
10:50 AM MattyMatt: or a condiment set
10:50 AM jym: Giant chess pieces cut from EPS!!! (foam)
10:51 AM MattyMatt: I can get 12" long on my 4th, so pepper and salt are king and queen
10:51 AM gregcnc: lol https://www.instagram.com/p/BSOZfvjAcaF/
10:52 AM {HD}: gregcnc: YES!
10:52 AM MattyMatt: jade rabbit
10:52 AM MattyMatt: voshkod!
10:53 AM MattyMatt: nasa are all metric these days
10:55 AM MattyMatt: and that flag is almost certainly bleached white by now, according to AST
10:58 AM MattyMatt: you need to go and plant some more flags
10:58 AM MattyMatt: past glories are past
10:59 AM MattyMatt: whitworth fasteners are expensive now
10:59 AM MattyMatt: so metric for me
10:59 AM * MattyMatt waves EU flag
11:36 AM DavenportGuy: http://www.motioncontroltips.com/tiny-2-6a-brushed-dc-motor-driver-for-portable-designs/
11:51 AM archivist: proper cnc dont need no battery mode
11:52 AM archivist: 2.6 amps is on the weedy side too
12:19 PM SpeedEvil: I'm idly trying to work out design for a nice cheap small 3000W 240VAC battery supply
12:24 PM MattyMatt: with plutonium or without?
12:25 PM Roguish: coal, Donald says so.
12:26 PM MattyMatt: it's american plutonium. the isotope you need is only made in fast breeders
12:26 PM MattyMatt: is/was
12:27 PM archivist: that Donald is seriously nuts
12:27 PM Roguish: as long as it's 'Merican. it's ok.
12:27 PM SpeedEvil: I thought he'd intended to ban fast breeders by building that wall.
12:28 PM archivist: and the immigration ban that got killed.... rofl
12:28 PM MattyMatt: he has more kids than the average catholic
12:29 PM Roguish: syphilitic dementia is a good rumor.
12:29 PM MattyMatt: it's a legal defence here
12:30 PM MattyMatt: it can cure itself once the verdict is in, if your barrister is any good
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:31 PM MattyMatt: g'day sport
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: someone knows if i can grap the filename within the GUI
12:42 PM archivist: grap is not a word know to man
12:42 PM archivist: known
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: can i get the filename within LCNC
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:46 PM archivist: define "within" in gcode, in the gui, in the many other sections
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: <_filname>
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: var
12:52 PM cradek: gcode doesn't have strings
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: its not for this
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: as there are so many good feathers to use
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: woudt be good to grap the G-code filename loaded
12:53 PM archivist: there is no word grap
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: that woudt realy help on Workarounds
12:54 PM archivist: we really dont know what you are trying to do
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: im scaling the g-code outside by grecode with a user mcode
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: so on my plasmas it is ok
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: as they only have one g-code file
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: but like jesos alos that has coustom files
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: it woudt be good to get the filename
12:56 PM nos: http://i.imgur.com/u0bPORI.jpg
12:56 PM nos: My first parts made on a CNC machine.
12:57 PM archivist: do this externally in some script
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: that is the point
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: did not find a solution on that
12:57 PM archivist: write it
12:59 PM archivist: nos the variation in marks on the surface can point to errors
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: nos: what size is it no indicator
01:00 PM archivist: I think I can see either tool bend or the part moved
01:01 PM nos: archivist: I ran that one in single-block mode, cause I had never done it before.
01:01 PM nos: IchGucksLive: 22mm nominal diameter
01:01 PM archivist: the first parts are fun :)
01:02 PM nos: The machine I used is a Mazak 6 axis lathe, so the rigidity etc should be adequate. :p
01:04 PM nos: It's a school assignment, for becoming a Real Machinist (tm), and I had to program it in G-code as XC milling.
01:05 PM archivist: no lube on?
01:07 PM nos: Some. I sometimes forgot to turn it on, but it really doesn't seem to matter...
01:08 PM nos: I wasn't really concerned as much with surface finish as I was with getting the program functioning.
01:11 PM IchGucksLive: back
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: archivist:
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: "/home/sammel/linuxcnc/grecode/grecode -rot $angel /home/sammel/linuxcnc/nc_files/N7000.ngc -o /home/sammel/linuxcnc/nc_files/N7000_rot.ngc
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: axis-remote /home/sammel/linuxcnc/nc_files/N7000_rot.ngc
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: axis-remote --reload &"
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: This is the M153
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: that rotetes the Whole gcode by angel
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: M153 P45
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: as i got the Filename
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: i can work with real files
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: the network CAM only deports the N7000
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: so the CNC only got oe file from the CAD/CAM system
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: here it is ok
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: as i know that
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: but on G51 G52
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: workaround its not
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: as most hobbyist want there own file name
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: or the file loaded processed
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: "/home/sammel/linuxcnc/grecode/grecode -scale $scalefactor /home/sammel/linuxcnc/nc_files/N7000.ngc -o /home/sammel/linuxcnc/nc_files/N7000_scaled.ngc
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: axis-remote /home/sammel/linuxcnc/nc_files/N7000_scaled.ngc
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: axis-remote --reload &
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: this is SCALE
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: M151 P1.5
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: scales the entirer Gcode by 1.5 and reloads it
01:17 PM archivist: write some python, edit a gui, do something
01:17 PM archivist: dont tell us stuff we dont need to know
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: so MDI Scaling Mirroring and
01:17 PM cradek: linuxcnc already has coordinate system rotation
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: cradek: agree
01:17 PM jdh: and it confuses me every time
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: but no scaling
01:17 PM cradek: this is not a good way to add scaling
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: cradek: also agree
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: but it workes
01:18 PM archivist: write your scaling INTO the gcode
01:19 PM cradek: the splash screen gcode does that
01:19 PM IchGucksLive: archivist: i also agree on that but the Mcode scaling is only a MDI command
01:19 PM archivist: cam is a crutch stopping you from doing the right thing
01:19 PM cradek: if you need to scale a certain program for some reason, that is a good way to do it
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: is there a Vidio on howto splash screen
01:20 PM cradek: (?)
01:20 PM archivist: dont need a video read the code
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: How to do this
01:20 PM archivist: eyes
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: i will search around
01:21 PM archivist: it is a gcode file
01:21 PM cradek: we're talking about the gcode file that AXIS loads by default
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: ah then im out of mind
01:21 PM cradek: that gcode has a scale factor at the top
01:21 PM nos: Fusion 360 is new and interesting though...
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: i thought there is a NGC that scales a other
01:21 PM cradek: you can look in the file and see how the scale factor variable is used
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: that i know
01:22 PM archivist: nos, dont get too hooked on CAM
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: but not practical for a user without kowing what this is
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: ok
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: so its not there Filename let it be as it is
01:23 PM nos: archivist: I've been told not to get hooked on g-code too. ;)
01:23 PM archivist: users can scale in their cad anyway then recreate the gcode
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: only one Filename alowed to LCNC User Mcodes
01:23 PM JT-Shop: well my M5 x 0.5 tap arrived
01:24 PM archivist: M5 huge :)
01:24 PM * JT-Shop wonders why proxes have strange thread pitch
01:24 PM nos: M5 is pretty odd. Why not M6?
01:24 PM nos: Or M4
01:25 PM JT-Shop: because most M4 proxes are smooth and M6 prox is too big to fit
01:25 PM archivist: JT-Shop, fine adjustment
01:25 PM JT-Shop: special taps for each too
01:26 PM nos: IchGucksLive: G20/G21 allows for some intersting scaling too. :p
01:27 PM gregcnc: don't get hooked on cam?
01:28 PM archivist: show me any cam that does gear generation for free :)
01:28 PM gregcnc: yeah CAM is a fad it will blow over
01:28 PM MattyMatt: woodgears.ca
01:29 PM archivist: that is a toy
01:29 PM archivist: I said generation, hobbing/shaping
01:30 PM archivist: not milling a profile with incorrect roots
01:30 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, get your mess picked up?
01:31 PM IchGucksLive: i will mill this http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=114107
01:31 PM IchGucksLive: need more optimise
01:31 PM IchGucksLive: as 500mm width
01:31 PM JT-Shop: well it's neatly organized on the floor lol
01:32 PM Tom_L: heh
01:33 PM archivist: RAM random access metal
01:34 PM JT-Shop: it was pretty random yesterday lol
01:35 PM archivist: I have boxes of offcut RAM
01:35 PM archivist: usually end up with a few cuts finding the bit you want
01:48 PM JT-Shop: yea I always grab the smallest bit of stock to make a part
01:51 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn9
01:51 PM IchGucksLive: 8
03:38 PM Deejay: gn8
05:30 PM andypugh: So I got that printer I was looking at. At first I thought it came with no instructions at all, but then I found an SD card, with all-Chinese instructions. So I just bolted on the head and turned it on. And it booted into a menu system with a chatty, english, setup script.
05:30 PM andypugh: So far it’s a bit dull. Out of the box it seems to Just Print sruff.
05:31 PM malcom2073: How boring, no long, complicated redesign and assembly required?
05:31 PM andypugh: It still has plenty of time to prove to be flaky and useless, but so far it seems to have arrives as a functional thing.
05:31 PM malcom2073: What'd you get?
05:32 PM andypugh: http://www.ctcprinter.com/product_detail.php?ProId=32
05:33 PM andypugh: But, I paid less: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
05:33 PM JT-Shop: an stl file and a slicer and your off to the races, what filament did you get?
05:34 PM andypugh: It came with a roll of PLA
05:34 PM malcom2073: Cool!
05:34 PM malcom2073: yeah Longevity of things like the hotend not clogging will be key
05:35 PM andypugh: I have Fusion360, and that just downloaded Print Studio, and I pretty much instantly set it off printng a mini version of what the CNC mill is machining. The mill is at 18 hours machining time, and counting.
05:36 PM andypugh: The version the mill is making is bigger, and I am making green petal-shaped swarf by the dustbin bag full. https://goo.gl/photos/ffGMbP16FMR9h7iVA
05:37 PM malcom2073: andypugh: foam for a casting mold?
05:37 PM andypugh: Well, pretty dense Sikablock 940. They sell it for making press-tooling for steel…
05:38 PM andypugh: In fact, my block was just such a press-tool.
05:38 PM andypugh: So it’s not super-fast to machine.
05:38 PM andypugh: But it was all I had big enough.
05:38 PM malcom2073: hmm
05:39 PM andypugh: Interesting process, making press-tools with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qc5gZE_XUg
05:42 PM JT-Shop: ah pla is the easy one to print
05:43 PM andypugh: I anticipate mainly making patterns to send to the iron foundry, so don’t need mechanical strength.
05:45 PM malcom2073: cool
05:49 PM JT-Shop: what slicer are you using?
05:55 PM andypugh: Autodesk Print Studio, plugs straight into Fusion360 on my Mac.
05:56 PM JT-Shop: cool
05:57 PM * JT-Shop has 10% of the steel standing back up
06:22 PM andypugh: First print, straight out of the box and default slicer settings: https://goo.gl/photos/9QQAhZG7N5Qv7B6C9
06:23 PM andypugh: This makes no sense at all, I shouldn’t find myself wanting it: https://www.workshopheaven.com/kinex-ultralight-square.html?mc_cid=556fce1024&mc_eid=fbe31f594d
06:28 PM Tom_L: even comes in a gift box... i think you should
06:34 PM JT-Shop: just waiting on the esd's and the fc for the quad
06:34 PM JT-Shop: there is so many acronyms you need to learn to fly a quad
06:34 PM Tom_L: any make any sense?
06:34 PM JT-Shop: starting to
06:34 PM Tom_L: got a hi res camera on it?
06:35 PM JT-Shop: the big one I'm going to use my GoPro
06:35 PM JT-Shop: the little one is a cheap video thingy
06:36 PM JT-Shop: I have a fpv goggle on the way but for the most I'll be flying line of sight I think
06:40 PM JT-Shop: I just want to chase the rooster around some lol
06:43 PM * JT-Shop wonders where Mrs.JT-Shop is...
06:48 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, do you have a good 'diff' program for windows you like?
06:49 PM JT-Shop: diff?
06:49 PM Tom_L: compare 2 files
06:50 PM JT-Shop: hmm, not done that in a long time
06:52 PM Tom_L: me either
06:52 PM * JT-Shop retires to the couch
06:53 PM JT-Shop: well maybe after Zydeco Sont Pas Sale
06:53 PM JT-Shop: by Clifon Chenier
07:02 PM andypugh: I wonder if these joints have applications in assembline 3D printed parts? They are feats of craftsmaship in wood, but trivial to print. http://www.archdaily.com/796918/these-mesmerizing-gifs-illustrate-the-art-of-traditional-japanese-wood-joinery
07:03 PM jym: andypugh: assembline?
07:03 PM andypugh: Is that a word?
07:04 PM jym: andypugh: I dont know, you said it =)
07:04 PM andypugh: Ah, yes, so I did. I meant “assembling” for those times when your printer is too small.
07:05 PM jym: andypugh: Oh, you mean a form of "locking joint(s)" ?
07:05 PM andypugh: Yes, slot-together accurately.
07:06 PM andypugh: Some are just silly-complex, but others might make sense.
07:08 PM jym: andypugh: Ok, I think most know my fondness (disguised as disguest of glorified hot glue guns) of sub $1000 3d printers, but everything I've seen in person is strands overlayed, and they are not very "smooth". You think the courses would work with such intricate joints?
07:08 PM jym: coarseness
07:09 PM andypugh: If the joints were big and the srands were small.
07:10 PM andypugh: Wood is made from strands :-)
07:10 PM jym: andypugh: What about in the case of that square locking pin? And wood can be sanded smooth.
07:10 PM roycroft: blasphemer!
07:10 PM andypugh: FDM can be sanded smooth, or melted smooth with solvents.
07:10 PM roycroft: no japanese jointmaker would sand his joints smooth
07:10 PM roycroft: he would sharpen his chisels
07:11 PM roycroft: and pare them smooth
07:11 PM jym: andypugh: I'd think the thermal expansion with jar the pin loose
07:11 PM jym: would*
07:12 PM jym: andypugh: I'm speakinf specifically of the joints you linked to. There might be OTHER joints better suited.
07:12 PM andypugh: I did make a secret mitre dovetail once, on two pieces of wood that did not meet at a right-angle and were skewed in the other direction (two stair-strings in a not-right-angle-corner. 12” x 3” oak. You can’t see that it is there, but I know it is there :-)
07:13 PM Kevin`: jym: i've made ball joints on a 3d printer that worked perfectly fine. there is another side to the pictured joints though: you should be using a flat plane, registration surface/pin, and chemical welding instead in most cases
07:15 PM andypugh: Googling, I love this metaphor about the mitre dovetail: “The interior can be as gap-toothed as a beaver with a meth habit as long as it is structurally sound and the three miters are tight. Only you will know what secrets the secret dovetail hides.”
07:16 PM jym: Kevin`: I'm just not fond of sub $1000 glue guns, other than the $20 or less ones.
07:18 PM Kevin`: there's a few sub-$1000 printers that are quality without tinkering. very few though.
07:18 PM jym: Kevin`: I've only see two legit use examples, and one of them was a prosthetic for a duck that lost their foot.
07:18 PM jym: I cna't recall the other, so you figure how much of an impression it made on me.
07:18 PM andypugh: I just made my first print with a $250 one, and it Just Worked (tm)
07:18 PM Kevin`: jym: legit examples of what?
07:19 PM jym: glue gun
07:19 PM andypugh: I am almost disappointed, I bought it to learn about the flaws in the process
07:19 PM Kevin`: jym: how do you use a glue tun as a prosthetic for a duck?
07:19 PM Kevin`: gun*
07:20 PM Kevin`: if you mean "i've only seen two legic use examples of 3d printing" you just don't have imagination =p
07:20 PM Kevin`: legit*
07:20 PM jym: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwHo-Ka3dsQ
07:21 PM jym: Ok, I dodn't realize it wasn't a sub $1000 printer at the time.
07:22 PM jym: So whit, now I'm down to one legit use for a sub $1000 glue gun that I cna't remember. lol
07:22 PM Kevin`: that part has no critical dimensions or moving parts. an ebay printer *could* make it
07:23 PM Kevin`: I don't think $1000 is the cutoff though. my printer was something like $400, includes real bailing wire, and has printed far more mechanically demanding parts
07:27 PM roycroft: for $400 do you also get real chewing gum, or just the baling wire?
07:28 PM Kevin`: the nozzle bit came with some gummy bears
07:30 PM R2E4_bevins1: allo?
07:32 PM Kevin`: hi
07:52 PM Cromaglious_: man FIOS and Tmobile Internet has been marginal all day long here
07:53 PM jym: Cromaglious_: How is FIOS marginal? Less than a 500Mbps? <smack>
07:55 PM Cromaglious_: takes 2 connection tries per site. 1st one reports not DNS, the next finds the site then the connection is very slow
07:58 PM andypugh: jym: 13 hours to print a duck-foot?
08:02 PM R2E4_bevins1: Is something broke in the remapping in 2.8 pre?
08:02 PM R2E4_bevins1: with pur python?
08:12 PM jym: andypugh: It's a worthy cause, and I don't think the duck minds waiting =)
08:13 PM jym: Cromaglious_: For DNS, try: 8.8.8.8 and/or 8.8.4.4 (both are google's public dns servers)
08:15 PM Cromaglious_: that's using 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
08:18 PM andypugh: jym: But, they could at least have printed it in Duck-foot yellow.
09:13 PM jym: andypugh: Well, maybe he wanted some bling =)
09:18 PM MacGalempsy: evening folks
09:21 PM Tom_L: evening
09:22 PM MacGalempsy: I see you made it through the storms we had the other night
09:23 PM MacGalempsy: any damage Tom_L?
09:23 PM Tom_L: no not really
09:23 PM Tom_L: couple dead branches fell
09:23 PM {HD}: This is the grinder that is available locally for $600...I don't think I am interested anymore but, I feel like I should ask if the fan is for sale... http://imgur.com/a/uXe7l
09:52 PM {HD}: Laser? http://imgur.com/gallery/8wGTD4l
09:59 PM CaptHindsight: looks like it
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: fiber/fibre laser
10:00 PM TekMason: Hi all. I'm working on a Root 2.1 CNC machine to cut aluminum and circuit boards (I know both ends of the spectrum). Any recommendations links for a spindle?
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: TekMason: this gantry? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV66W9bVTgU
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: the one in the video ^^ is ~400W
10:03 PM TekMason: I'm flexable on gantry. Is a 400W spindle be enought to cut aluminum?
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: well that machine is not really made for metal cutting
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: only very thin sheet
10:04 PM TekMason: I think I am going to use a lead screw for X and Z axis movement
10:04 PM {HD}: CaptHindsight: What material is that machine made out of?
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYxTZAJLHNU belt driven
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: {HD}: ever notice how CNC made for cutting metals are not made with rubber bands?
10:07 PM TekMason: so should I be looking into a 1.0kw spindle?
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: wow the fish eye lens really exaggerates how much that router wobbles
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: TekMason: what thickness aluminum do you wish to cut?
10:08 PM TekMason: inches but slowly
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: like digging a tunnel with a hammer and chisel
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: slowly
10:09 PM TekMason: I got nothing but time ;)
10:10 PM TekMason: any specific recommendations/links?
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: anything more than that tiny spindle will bend the gantry
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: search for 400w spindle on ebay
10:11 PM Kevin`: TekMason: for cutting metal it's extremely important to have a constant spindle speed. power is less important, but always helpful, torque is also helpful
10:12 PM Kevin`: if you get a dc spindle from ebay you also need to attach an encoder to it
10:12 PM Kevin`: a bldc or induction spindle does not require that but is more expensive than an encoder anyway
10:12 PM Kevin`: but also simpler and quieter..
10:12 PM TekMason: I'm thinking variable speed would be best since I will be cutting various materials and using a different cutters
10:13 PM Kevin`: TekMason: you misunderstand. the speed must be controlled by the machine to a constant value. it must not vary under load
10:13 PM Kevin`: variable is probably a prerequisite of that unless you run it directly from mains
10:14 PM TekMason: k gotcha. torque is king?
10:15 PM Kevin`: yep, you want to build a torquey servo motor that runs up to a few thousand rpm
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: how much will this matter mounted on a springy platform?
10:20 PM Kevin`: TekMason: one thing that may not be immediately obvious is there is a fixed ratio between spindle rpm and feed rate (of the gantry system), for a given bit. moving too slowly (or spinning too fast) will cause the cutter to stop cutting and destroy itself, which is somewhat counterintuitive at first. of course, moving too fast or spinning too slow causes extra load on each cut and can cause it's own proble
10:20 PM Kevin`: ms. there's calculators for thus but IMO it's better to do it from Maths first
10:21 PM Kevin`: a higher torque motor allows you to run everything slower and put less stress your bendy frame
10:26 PM TekMason: yep. aluminum can gum up on the bit really wuick
10:26 PM TekMason: quick
10:27 PM Tom_L: feed faster
10:27 PM TekMason: something like this WATER-COOLED 110V 1.5KW CNC SPINDLE MOTOR AND MATCHING DRIVE INVERTER VFD 12A http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WATER-COOLED-110V-1-5KW-CNC-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-MATCHING-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-12A-/261935916654?hash=item3cfc98e66e:g:gG4AAOSwk5FUwgQY
10:28 PM TekMason: I would rather stick to 120v input though
10:30 PM Kevin`: TekMason: those motors do make the system design simple as there speed remains close to the inverters waveform. there's always some slip but it's close enough that they work for metal without regulation
10:30 PM Kevin`: water cooled is also very quiet
10:30 PM Kevin`: their speed*
10:32 PM {HD}: TekMason: You can get a 1.5kw in a 65mm body instead of the 80...If you wanted to go 80 get the one with the er16 collet...
10:34 PM Kevin`: TekMason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAUYFsiuY-8
10:34 PM Kevin`: (not my video)
10:36 PM Kevin`: well, obviously, as it's mach 3
11:27 PM Crom: ugh going through Los Angeles County... 15-91-71-57-210-134-5-101-OUT OF LA!!!!
11:43 PM chopper791: evening all
11:45 PM chopper791: Getting my gear tooth sensor figured out and runing into an issue. My rpm reading is 1000 =995, 2000=1977, 3000=2957, 4000=3945, 5000=4932, 6000=5908
11:45 PM chopper791: Any ideas on what I shoul dlook for to fix this erro?
11:45 PM chopper791: error?
11:47 PM Crom: is it a fixed error ratio?
11:48 PM chopper791: Please explain
11:49 PM Crom: Do you get the same readinga each time?
11:49 PM chopper791: yes
11:50 PM Crom: rpm has a time base... so the timing
11:51 PM Crom: can be off decause of the timer() or something
11:52 PM Crom: 1000 rom is actual or is 995 the actual rom?
11:52 PM chopper791: 1000 commanded = 995
11:52 PM Crom: rpm feed back is via what?
11:53 PM Crom: induction of hall effect?
11:53 PM chopper791: using a quadrature gear tooth sensor.
11:53 PM chopper791: Hall
11:55 PM Crom: PID speed control if I think it I value is low the when it gets close it will be near but not doing the actual rpm
11:56 PM Crom: basically it undershoots the target RPM
11:56 PM chopper791: I would think that if I commanded 1000rpm and the feedback was reading 995 that lcnc would adjust the rpm to make the the spindle 1000rpm.
11:57 PM Crom: but it could be high or low... this is a brushed DC motor?
11:58 PM chopper791: 3ph 7.5kw yaskawa motor
11:58 PM Crom: chopper791: it's the nature of PID if ibe if the vaues is too low it'll come close
11:59 PM Crom: s/ibe/one/