#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 10 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:05 AM Cromaglious_: yep
12:07 AM Cromaglious_: were you changing to tool 2?
12:07 AM Cromaglious_: ARGHHhhh0&(*&$%&^&*(*&^%^&*( I WANT TO SPEND MONEY!!!!!
12:07 AM Cromaglious_: sitting here... stewing...
12:07 AM Cromaglious_: damnVA
12:07 AM Cromaglious_: and now I have a FTDI adapter that doesn't want to create /dev/ttyUSBx
12:27 AM Connor1 is now known as Connor
12:35 AM Cromaglious_: oh it finally decided to create one
12:46 AM cncnoob: that was it
12:46 AM cncnoob: It works mostly as I would expect it to now
12:47 AM cncnoob: After my initial touch off all I have to do is change out the tools, no more touch offs required
12:47 AM cncnoob: and yes, I was changing tool 1 and tool 2
12:47 AM cncnoob: Thanks for your help @Cromaglious_
12:47 AM cncnoob: You should treat yourself
12:47 AM cncnoob: I give you permission to purchase whatever you want
12:47 AM cncnoob: just put it on the card
02:10 AM Deejay: moin
02:10 AM Cromaglious_: No card
02:10 AM Cromaglious_: morning DeeJay
02:11 AM Cromaglious_: still compiling kernel
02:12 AM Cromaglious_: Gone through 3 HC-06 bluetooth adapter and none have worked
06:09 AM jthornton: morning
06:09 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
06:10 AM Deejay: hi there
06:10 AM jthornton: these 11 hour days are starting to wear me down
06:10 AM XXCoder: 11/5?
06:11 AM jthornton: 7 to 6-6:30
06:11 AM XXCoder: no, 11/5 is 11 hours, 5 days
06:11 AM XXCoder: mine is 10/4 normally
06:14 AM jthornton: I used to like 3rd shift in the shipyard 12-7 got paid for 8 hours
06:16 AM jthornton: lost power last night during the storm, wife was cooking dinner... good thing we have a gas stove
06:17 AM XXCoder: thats sometimes advange of gas oven
06:17 AM XXCoder: work we backed up cnc machine settings in case it blacks out while running
06:17 AM jthornton: I don't like cooking on an electric cook top you can't regulate the heat well
06:18 AM XXCoder: I just hope it dont black out as theres now nobody at work and a61 is still chugging along in least till 6 am in least. (2.5 hours)
06:19 AM jthornton: must take a long time to make that part
06:19 AM XXCoder: not too long, 75 min each part, 2 each pallet, 2 of em
06:20 AM XXCoder: other mill has somewhat shorter 70 min total one pallet, other one prep so few minutes
06:20 AM XXCoder: one more pallet 2 hours total, dunno which mill it would go to.
06:21 AM jthornton: my buddy has a vmc with two 4 sided pallets
06:21 AM XXCoder: current record is 8 parts one pallet
06:21 AM XXCoder: only 4 hours though
06:21 AM XXCoder: longest ever is 2 parts one pallet, 6 hours
06:22 AM XXCoder: so I only changed parts once each machine.
06:22 AM jthornton: does it swap pallets so you can change them while the other one is getting machined?
06:22 AM XXCoder: I finished 2 books that day. 300 pages each
06:23 AM XXCoder: it moves pallets around also
06:23 AM XXCoder: 24 pallets though we rarely use more than say 8
06:23 AM XXCoder: I stay at workstation, theres 2 pallet process stations there
06:28 AM XXCoder: anyway
06:28 AM XXCoder: Im thinking on what to do this weekend with cnc rputer
06:34 AM XXCoder: you?
06:36 AM jthornton: one of the guys in our over the hill biker gang wants to go to St Louis to celebrate his birthday at Hooters but it ain't looking good with snow on Saturday
06:36 AM XXCoder: ever-washington here
06:36 AM jthornton: Sunday I'll be working on this again http://gnipsel.com/images/cover-tester/husky-cover-tester-17.jpg
06:36 AM XXCoder: rain will not end
06:37 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/cover-tester/
06:38 AM XXCoder: whats it
06:41 AM jthornton: tehy put the black cover on the two pins and it tests the installation of the screw and for the bushing
06:41 AM jthornton: then if ok the nippers cut a sprue off
06:42 AM jthornton: I made the polycarbonate cover for it yesterday but had to take it apart and do a little grinding on the lip
06:43 AM XXCoder: so its machine to do one task?
06:43 AM XXCoder: I guess it'll be used thousands of times in least?
06:43 AM jthornton: thousands of times a day yea
06:44 AM XXCoder: ya, otherwise not worth it
06:46 AM jthornton: yea, I'm actually building it kinda cheap just so they can see what I can do
06:46 AM jthornton: it is a corrective action thing
06:48 AM XXCoder: interesting
07:06 AM XXCoder: jthornton: pretty cool! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoUBJbyZ-8&
07:13 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fErEShd8xM&list=PL1a2HkcVbmAUZj7kHHgoZXyYTGGAmT0D2
07:15 AM XXCoder: pretty cool
07:37 AM XXCoder: trying dried ice cream sandwinch
07:37 AM XXCoder: lets see if its ediable
07:38 AM XXCoder: hmm not bad
08:22 AM JT-Shop: wow I had to print out an address in chinese
08:23 AM XXCoder: fancy
08:23 AM XXCoder: never sold to china
08:24 AM JT-Shop: lol I'm sending them a power supply made in china
08:24 AM XXCoder: long round trip
08:28 AM archivist: they wanted a reliable one from usa !
10:15 AM tumdedum_ is now known as tumdedum
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: all these whiz kids making extrusion printers and still no decent pellet extruder with large (few mm) nozzles
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1847917 looks pretty light
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: https://mahorxyz.wordpress.com/2016/05/13/pellet-extruder/
11:18 AM archivist: be funny to see most printers buckle thying to carry that
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.titan3drobotics.com/pellet-extrusion-3d-printing-on-the-atlas/
11:21 AM gregcnc: shortsightedness
11:22 AM MediocreN: hey, anyone happen to have any experience with bosch / industrial cnc controllers?
11:23 AM MediocreN: having issues moving a cnc from an old school crt to a new lcd panel
11:23 AM MediocreN: cant tell if the board isn't outputting video or what
11:23 AM archivist: use a scope
11:24 AM archivist: is it separate sunc or composite
11:24 AM archivist: sync
11:26 AM MediocreN: This is the relevent info i can find on it atm: going to post links
11:26 AM MediocreN: the replacement: http://www.crt-replacement-monitors.com/sdp/1454255/4/pd-6001643/9104513-2569690/LCD_Monitor_For_BOSCH_CC_220_s_BOSCH_CC220_TRUMATI.html
11:26 AM MediocreN: the manual: http://cncmanual.com/bosch-cc-220-connection-conditions/
11:26 AM MediocreN: 1-25 through 1-35 if the only relevent info i can find
11:28 AM archivist: what did it actually have read/point at relevant info
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: Imagine having this to show customers in your portfolio http://microfabricator.com/articles/view/id/568bda11313944b6388b4567/multistruder-diy-filament-extruder
11:30 AM archivist: quite posh for standard pipe fittings
11:30 AM gregcnc: That's part of a kickstarter campaign? well it was funded for 6kUSD
11:31 AM Chillum: kickstarter, the place with amazing new products you can't buy!
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: http://microfabricator.com/articles/view/id/53f78149313944d6098b4567/reprap-universal-plastic-pellet-extruder-project?utm_campaign=pagename-articles.view&utm_medium=internal&utm_source=related-article
11:31 AM gregcnc: you can buy them eventually, unles they blow all the money and give up
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: sorry contributors, we sent 90% of our funds off the a guy in China and we didn't get our stuff
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: the/to
11:33 AM Chillum: ^^
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: what a stroke of bad luck
11:33 AM gregcnc: it doesn't look like the last guy got far with his pellet extruder
11:33 AM SpeedEvil: http://www.chinalawblog.com/2016/03/china-and-the-internet-of-things-and-how-to-destroy-your-own-company.html
11:34 AM SpeedEvil: IT's quite easy to enter into an agreement with a factory in china where they offer to help you design something, and it turn out you own no rights at all to the designed thing if they decide to sell it to you only at an inflated price
11:34 AM SpeedEvil: Do it more wrong, and they own the rights.
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: my main problem in China is finding competent staff
11:36 AM SpeedEvil: Yeah - that assumes that the person you've found in china is competant enough to screw you, and not just screw up
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: seems I have some crazy western viewpoint on doing actual work and meeting some odd quality standard
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: if I need something made cheaply I just give them the plans
11:42 AM gregcnc: does that work?
11:42 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, you just give them parts to make not entire designs
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: well for something mechanical
11:43 AM gregcnc: i think the world could use better vises that those cheap small grinding vises, same cost, just different design
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: with electronics they will make a board with various results based on where they cheaped out on passives or just left things off
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: like ESD protection
11:45 AM gregcnc: or mains isolation?
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: crappy caps etc
11:45 AM gregcnc: it was tough finding motor run caps not made in china locally
11:46 AM gregcnc: i ended up finding a guy and he even had US made
11:47 AM CaptHindsight: you want a cap that lasts more than 2-3 years?!
11:50 AM gregcnc: if it was a motor I wouldn't care, but this was for the phase converter and I just don't trust it for that
11:57 AM sync_: I was just gonna say, why not use a 3 phase motor but ....
11:57 AM sync_: I'm still amazed that RPCs are still a thing in the us
11:57 AM gregcnc: well this one is digital
12:07 PM sliptonic: We've started playing around with ideas to do lathe turning operations in FreeCAD Path (cnc) workbench. I'm looking for a simple known-good example program that we can test the backplotting with. Ideally something like a chess pawn that has arcs.
12:08 PM sliptonic: I don't have access to a lathe and have never programmed one so I don't trust myself to do it by hand.
12:08 PM cradek: there are many formats of arcs. if you want to be compatible with linuxcnc gcode you should study the linuxcnc docs and then generate all the test cases.
12:09 PM cradek: you will not find an existing program for a real part that uses all of the formats!
12:09 PM sliptonic: I don't need all the formats at this point. radius and offsets is sufficient.
12:11 PM cradek: linuxcnc has a sample gcode program called lathe_pawn.ngc
12:13 PM sliptonic: Oh, awesome. I thought I'd seen it someplace.
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: hi from Germany
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: today i first time did a hevy milling on a real cheesy mashine Oak 1inch by 1inch Toranchial on Trapezional 12x3 and it worked like charme
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: with a 16mm bit
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: 25 wide 25 depth
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: 700mm/min around 2.5mm per Rotation cut
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: cool i will do a video
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: all want only wood carving
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: Text in different NICE fonts
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: made some tests
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: here is the result http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/hs.jpg
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: wood is 110mm wide
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: text is most 50mm and max 5mm depth
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: the carver is limited to the contour wide
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: generated on 14.04 wine 32 Estlcam
01:04 PM Cromaglious_: time tocheck the compile.. see if it's done
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: Question is there a parameter that speeds up the Graphics towards the mill position it is near one second behind the mill on 2.7.8
01:20 PM IchGucksLive: same PC as on 10.04 2.5.3
01:21 PM IchGucksLive: for me the updating to the new system is getting more and more unusable
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: same pc's
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: does it only cut in German? :)
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: have a pic of the machine?
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: the keyboard reacts around .5sec late
01:22 PM IchGucksLive: its the same as always
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: the same as always
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: how busy is the cpu?
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: oh dident check that
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: also i got chashes as the Z moves unexpected
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: never had that on 8.04 and 10.04
01:26 PM IchGucksLive: i will try to find a very old Notebook HDD to get back on 8.04 wirh my home mashines
01:26 PM IchGucksLive: never got in trouble with them
01:27 PM Loetmichel_: hihi, my wife just ordered pizza..."what do you want?" me: no idea, surprise me!" ... I just ate a "32cm american style salami pizza with double extra bacon and double extra cheese"... i think i know why i have such a belly in front of me ;)
01:28 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel_: you need to get outside at that nice day
01:30 PM Loetmichel_: IchGucksLive: its pitch black outside. why should i?
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: grilling in spring
01:30 PM IchGucksLive: full moon
01:37 PM IchGucksLive: hi JesusAlos
01:37 PM IchGucksLive: what a summer day in valencia
01:38 PM IchGucksLive: you hit the 30deg yesterday
01:45 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:54 PM JesusAlos: IchGucksLive: Here, we are 23 deg. of temperature, and waiting for "Las fallas de Valencia" party
01:54 PM roycroft: it's going to be 16 or 17 here again today
01:54 PM roycroft: which is nice
01:54 PM * roycroft has not been to valencia in about 30 years
02:05 PM roycroft: i remember the last night of fallas there were bonfires all over the city
02:06 PM roycroft: a false facade had been built in front of the cathedral and that was filled with fireworks, which were ignited and made a huge spectacle, then the false facade burned
02:36 PM Crom: Linux Linuxcnc 4.9.13-rt12 #2 SMP PREEMPT RT Fri Mar 10 03:54:44 PST 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
02:37 PM Crom: and linuxcnc is working
02:37 PM gregcnc: I can't understand why some retrofits/conversions are done the way they are. Guy found a sweet little Brother mill and decides to gut it and Moch3/clearpath with std 800 count encoders
02:37 PM gregcnc: resolution is an order of magnitude lower than original
02:38 PM skunkworks: because!
02:38 PM skunkworks: Crom, 4.9 is out? when did that happen?
02:38 PM Crom: dracut was required to process the initramd
02:38 PM Crom: skunkworks, NOT EASY!
02:38 PM skunkworks_: Linux skunkworks-PC 4.8.6-rt5 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Mon Nov 7 11:12:16 CST 2016 x86_64 GNU/Linux
02:39 PM gregcnc: i asked him about resolution and still say the machine don't need it?? eh you can only do so much
02:39 PM skunkworks: gregcnc, link?
02:39 PM gregcnc: just some instagram stuff
02:39 PM skunkworks: oh
02:40 PM Crom: download linux 4.9.13 source then go find the linux-4.9.13-rt12 patch... patch it. copy your old config from /boot into /usr/src/linux-source-4.9.13/.config
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: cause Linux too hard, make brain hurt, no want brain hurt
02:41 PM Crom: make menuconfig and make nconfig worked. I never could get gconfig working
02:41 PM Crom: make nconfig is usable
02:41 PM Crom: oh and the Preempt isn't enabled by default either
02:42 PM Crom: down in the processors menu... so you say yes to realtime and then there is a type selection.. I picked the bottom fully preemptable
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I used to hear Mach3 for machine conversions at hackerspaces
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: or some *duino kludge
02:44 PM Crom: make && make modules && make modules_install && make install && apt-get install -y dracut and wait for ever.. around 14 hours on a quad core atom running 1.3ghz
02:45 PM Crom: CaptHindsight, I'm trying out the Arduino mega + ethernet to see how it'll work. I'm also going to put in polar conversion as an option on the mega
02:46 PM gregcnc: I'm sure he could have gone with the 6000count "enhanced" encoders and not run out of bandwidth with the masso/hind thing
02:49 PM skunkworks: Crom, https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/35165705/
02:49 PM skunkworks: That is what I do...
02:52 PM Victor is now known as Guest85870
02:54 PM Crom: ahhh... older kernel.. I downloaded latest linux kernel and started from there
02:55 PM skunkworks: sure - whatever you do.. (you would have to pick what kernel you wanted.. (that was just what I had done)
02:56 PM Crom: this morning is when I saw the Dracut link... I think they were using 4.4.9-rc25 or there abouts
02:57 PM Crom: oh and gmoccapy is working finally!!!!
02:58 PM Crom: you have to have limit switches enabled to be able to ignore soft limits
02:58 PM Crom: grrrr
02:58 PM Crom: going to mod table limits to +- 2000mm
02:59 PM Crom: and z to -+200mm
02:59 PM cradek: soft limits are your friends
02:59 PM cradek: they keep you from making mistakes and ruining things
02:59 PM Crom: I have to glue on magnets before I can mount limit sensors
03:00 PM cradek: you can home to a useful position without limit or home switches, and have useful soft limit protections
03:00 PM cradek: mark a position with a sharpie and home there
03:01 PM * JT-Shop was wondering why the touch screen was not working on the BP.. oh yea big storm last night and no power for a couple of hours
03:01 PM Crom: it's homing to X0 Y0 and right now it's about X270 and Y250
03:01 PM Crom: it's just zeroing the axis in the DRO it's not actually homing the gantry
03:02 PM cradek: yes, so jog to 0,0 before you hit home
03:02 PM cradek: then you can set your travel limits to keep you from smashing into the end of travel
03:02 PM Crom: cradek, right not X lower limit is -1mm
03:02 PM Crom: I can't get it to ignore soft limits
03:02 PM Crom: s/not/now/
03:02 PM cradek: you don't want it to ignore soft limits
03:03 PM bpuk: for pcw: I have a setup with a 5i25 + 7i77 - dead drives, switching the drives to pico servo amps - which mesa daughter card will I need for pwm output?
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: Crom: so how what works?
03:06 PM Crom: CaptHindsight, using a arduino mega with an ethernet shield as basically a ethernet BOB
03:06 PM Crom: with linuxcnc
03:08 PM Crom: it'll support 6 axis, 3 to 5 pwm and have room to read encoders
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: like the Mesa boards?
03:10 PM skunkworks: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/152516
03:10 PM Crom: CaptHindsight, kinda like yeah
03:11 PM Crom: I found some code for an uno/nano... working on porting it to the mega
03:12 PM Crom: guy was a crap coder... which makes it hard to convert... you have to find all the hard coded numbers he left around and convert them to defines or const
03:14 PM skunkworks: is the ethernet connection <-> mega realtime enough?
03:15 PM Crom: skunkworks, evidently
03:17 PM Crom: here's the arduino code I started on, there is a .py and a .hal
03:18 PM Crom: http://pastebin.com/j36asyxD
03:18 PM Roivai: I've been working with a similar thing, except with STM32 instead of Arduino. Some <200us roundtrip from LinuxCNC to the card and back is what I get, I suppose it is fast enough for 1kHz thread.
03:18 PM Crom: got a newer one on the other computer
03:19 PM Crom: Roivai, which board?
03:19 PM Roivai: Crom: a custom one
03:19 PM Crom: I'm looking for my Arduino due to play with also
03:19 PM Roivai: some very old story written about it on http://pekka.eu/cnc
03:20 PM Roivai: done a lot since writing that but haven't got the inspiration to update the page
03:20 PM Crom: since I'm not going to be milling in the 0.0001 range to the 0.010" is good enough for me and mails here brb
03:27 PM Crom: oh yeay! allergy pills and poop pills... when you get older.... you take your triumphs where they ocour
03:29 PM Crom: right now I'm using a MKS Gen 1.3 2560 board for testing until the ethernet port gets here... I can't find my current one.
03:35 PM bpuk: pcw_mesa: ignore the above, I've just spotted that the 7i29 has encoder inputs as well. I'll swap the 5i25 for the spare 5i20 and get the 7i29's ordered.
04:04 PM lunada: does a tool length offset automatically get called with a T#M6 now, or do i still have to add a G43H#?
04:04 PM lunada: i just noticed my post for rhinocam doesnt add the G43H#
04:04 PM XXCoder: I'm retty sure g43h# is always required
04:05 PM lunada: thats what i thought.... i have always added it to my programs
04:05 PM XXCoder: that is, if you need too length offset
04:05 PM cradek: yes you need it
04:05 PM lunada: weird that rhinocam actually has what they call an EMC post yet it doesnt add that
04:06 PM XXCoder: in my case I usually dont, since my machine I just set 0 to tool touching stock.
04:06 PM XXCoder: but yeah
04:06 PM lunada: cradek, not sure if you saw the other day, but my issue with positioning ended up being a loose encoder
04:06 PM gregcnc: most included linuxcnc posts are weak
04:07 PM lunada: yea i've only used the mastercam one.... that one was ok, but i think i got it from the linuxcnc site
04:08 PM cradek: lunada: cool, nice to have a definite answer
04:08 PM lunada: this was my first time using rhinocam
04:08 PM lunada: cradek: yep, that was going to drive me nuts if i didnt find something obvious
04:12 PM lunada: ishould probably go back and retune it since i'm sure my ff2 is off since the encoder slipping showed a start and stop overshoot/undershoot condition on halscope
04:19 PM Deejay: gn8
04:32 PM XXCoder: this is awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43LhSUUGTQ
04:46 PM skunkworks_: why does burn chicken taste so good?
04:46 PM skunkworks_: burnt
04:47 PM XXCoder: bvecause you're a god and burnt offerings is good to you
04:50 PM skunkworks_: Well - I like that explanation...
04:51 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i've ever tasted burnt chicken
04:58 PM lunada: isn't burnt chicken just hard as a brick?
04:58 PM Crom: I've known to have a bit of carbon with my chicken
05:00 PM Crom: chicken skin fried just right is nice and sweet, from the carmalized sugers in the fat
05:03 PM Crom: so yeay! Linuxcnc, gmoccapy, linux 4.913-PreemptRT, and debian 8.7 in amd64 are playing pretty well together
05:04 PM Crom: linuxcnc uspace 2.8.0-pre1.2905 amd64
05:05 PM Crom: had to get Dracut which preprocesses the init ram disk for booting. that was my hanging point this morning
05:05 PM Crom: Dracut takes a good 20+ minutes to run
05:10 PM skunkworks_: dracut?
05:10 PM skunkworks_: bbiab
05:11 PM Crom: it's a redhat written util which make an image for thee initial kernel ram drive before your hard drive root fs gets going
05:15 PM skunkworks: Crom, Linux skunkworks-PC 4.9.13-rt12 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Fri Mar 10 16:24:00 CST 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
05:15 PM Crom: wooo hooo... that was fast!
05:15 PM Crom: how many cores and how fast?
05:15 PM skunkworks: 17 quad core
05:16 PM Crom: I'm hearing atom chips run about half the speed of a real processor because of IO bottle necks
05:17 PM Crom: so my 1.4 is probably a .7 to your 1.7
05:19 PM Crom: 1GB of RAM doesn't help either
05:32 PM skunkworks: about 20us latency
06:08 PM skunkworks: it might not play well with the vm's
07:16 PM skunkworks: very decent for rt_preempt
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.winford.com/products/dinm12-15.php this place has some handy IO stuff and adapters
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: and they are in MI vs China
07:37 PM Cromaglious_: hmmm it's behaving
07:40 PM GregB: Hey guys
07:41 PM Cromaglious_: hiya GregB
07:41 PM GregB: This is the first time I've ever run accross LinuxCNC, Can anyone tell me if this is a replacement for Laser Engraving Driver software?
07:42 PM XXCoder: linuxcnc can run most cnc machines
07:42 PM XXCoder: so.. yes I guess
07:42 PM GregB: Basically, I got 4 laser engravers, and due to whatever the fuck they got coded in the software, I have to use one computer per machine. This is space consuming, money consuming, and won't really make it possible for me to automate the delivery of jobs to the machines.
07:42 PM andypugh: GregB: Potentially, but it might be more work than dedicated software
07:43 PM GregB: I live in Linux
07:43 PM GregB: everything is more work than dedicated software
07:43 PM GregB: But, gives you much better control, and freedom.
07:43 PM GregB: Anyway, Can LinuxCNC help solve my problem?
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: GregB: you still need compatible hardware
07:44 PM GregB: From the looks of it, it's a beast of a system to put together.
07:44 PM andypugh: I am not really seeing why one computer per machine is that much of a problem. Mini-ITX boards are fairly small, and Beaglebone/Pi/CHIP/Udoo are tiny.
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: PC for LCNC and IO for the motors and encoders etc
07:45 PM GregB: Well, part of the problem is that I can't just drop jobs to each machine.
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: GregB: are all the engravers using stepper motors?
07:45 PM andypugh: What is your starting point? I guess it isn’t G-code?
07:45 PM Cromaglious_: you could replace each computer with a raspberry pi
07:46 PM GregB: Frankly, having a windows tablet on each machine isn't that much of a big deal, but having to ask an operator to do anything with the software, that's what I'm trying to eliminate.
07:46 PM GregB: All the software runs on windows and I'm not sure raspberrie's work with that, but they might. I might just look into that.
07:46 PM GregB: CaptHindsight: I believe so.
07:47 PM Cromaglious_: gregb for laser cutters have you looked at smoothieware?
07:47 PM GregB: andypugh: right now, the graphics, I'm just starting to dive into this.
07:47 PM andypugh: We are not going to try to “sell” LinuxCNC to you, nobody makes money from LinuxCNC, so if it’s not a great fit, we will say so.
07:47 PM Cromaglious_: 120mhz micro controller... you can upload files via ethernet
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: well not from LCNC alone
07:47 PM andypugh: Folk are runnining lasers with LinuxCNC
07:48 PM GregB: Well, here's the thing, right now I have 4 machines. I'd like to setup a system to automate job delivery (I got that part handled).
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: Cromaglious_: sounds like a poopieboard, does it have ethernet?
07:49 PM Cromaglious_: if he's trying to go more kiosk type interface
07:49 PM jdh: what is the current interface between the winbox and the laser controller?
07:49 PM Cromaglious_: yep has ethernet
07:49 PM GregB: jdh: not a clue.
07:49 PM Cromaglious_: what laser cutter?
07:49 PM GregB: to be honest, I've never dived into the code or the software ON the machine
07:49 PM GregB: ULS
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: Cortex-M3 LPC1769
07:50 PM jdh: is there a usb cable?
07:50 PM andypugh: GregB: This chap seems happy, using LinuxCNC + someone else’s laser add-ons: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/32399-2-x-laser-build-lps-output-will-not-turn-off-after-the-cmd-to-turn-on-is-sent?start=10#88945
07:50 PM GregB: yes, it's all connected via USB
07:51 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC _can’t_ communicate with USB.
07:51 PM GregB: Well, that sucks
07:51 PM GregB: but there is ethernet as well
07:52 PM andypugh: Fundamental aspects of the USB spec are incompatible with what LinuxCNC is (a motion-controller running on a Linux machine)
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: USB, itsnot real time
07:52 PM GregB: I'm talking about usb to the machine itself,
07:52 PM GregB: are you guys talking internally?
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: he could run LCNC on a PC and have remote GUI over USB :)
07:52 PM GregB: Like the ULS I have has a built in computer.
07:53 PM jdh: linuxcnc would replace the controller in the laser, not the windows pc
07:53 PM GregB: Right, that's sort of what I thought.
07:53 PM GregB: the reason I asked the question.
07:53 PM andypugh: Mach3 worked round that because it would make them money, but it basically moves 90% of what Mach (or LinuxCNC) does onto the USB board, and LinuxCNC doesn’t see the point (money not involved, you see)
07:54 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC _is_ the motion controller. Not a DNC system of GUI to feed commands to external motion controllers.
07:54 PM Cromaglious_: ahhh it's using windows print drivers
07:55 PM GregB: So, I suppose the next question for me would be, do I want to keep the onboard software and find a different UI to handle it,
07:55 PM Cromaglious_: http://www.engraversnetwork.com/files/ULS25-Manual.pdf
07:55 PM GregB: or do I want to replace the onboard Computer.
07:55 PM andypugh: That could work, and might not actually be very hard to write from scratch.
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: handy comparison of 90 SBC's, mostly ARM https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vXQ2HzJTaVIsLDlS_0vPn6oAddR5rw9aas_g8TaGQyM/edit#gid=1330635981
07:55 PM jdh: ULS recommends constant supervision of a laser system during operation
07:56 PM GregB: jdh: Hey, what's life without a few gambles?
07:56 PM andypugh: Not a bad idea. Didn’t someone here need a new house after a laser engraver problem?
07:56 PM jdh: that's why I pasted it
07:57 PM GregB: All 4 machines are right next to eachother
07:57 PM GregB: and someone will be monitoring the machines at all working times.
07:57 PM andypugh: (not a joke, I am pretty sure that someone on this channel had a total-loss house fire)
07:57 PM Cromaglious_: ahhh it's plug and pray... lines less than 0.001" are cut vector, anything thicker is cut raster
07:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fda.gov/downloads/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidance/GuidanceDocuments/UCM095304.pdf
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: he used to be in here, after he moved to CA he hasn't been around much
07:59 PM andypugh: GregB: If you want to build a laser from scratch, or want to replace the existing controllers, we can help. But for your current problem I think that LinuxCNC is not the system you are looking for.
07:59 PM skunkworks: Yes - burned the house down. Lived in a airplane hanger for a while
07:59 PM GregB: andypugh: it's not the system I'm looking for, but it might just be my only choice.
07:59 PM malcom2073: Where is ssi nowadays?
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: malcom2073: took some job in silicon valley, hasn't been back
08:00 PM malcom2073: Hmm, I've heard silicon valley can do that
08:00 PM skunkworks: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/73050-Setting-up-EMC2-on-PC
08:00 PM Cromaglious_: ahhh ca.us granola bar state... Peoples Republic of Kalifornistan
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: also couldn't blame things on obama anymore :)
08:01 PM jdh: why not?
08:02 PM Cromaglious_: GregB those ULS lasers use a windows print driver... it might be some sort of linuxcnc drivable interface... we just don't know...
08:03 PM jdh: if you did replace the controller with lcnc, you would have to come up with a new workflow for design generation that would be most likely more difficult
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: When using DOS based programs, there are a few things to keep in mind. DOS software is not
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: standardized and each application will work differently. When using DOS applications, it is not
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: possible to print through the ULS Windows printer driver and for this situation, the system has been
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: designed to automatically emulate a Hewlett Packard plotter. Plotters use a special language called
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: HPGL which the laser system has been designed to accept. When configuring the DOS based
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: program, select the HP7475 plotter as the printing device. Set the maximum paper size to 17 inches
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: wide by 11.5 inches tall (refer to the DOS software manual for how to configure the printing device).
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: Once configured properly, the laser system should interface with the program very nicely and act just
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: like a plotter. The following are a few points to remember when printing from DOS based programs.
08:04 PM Cromaglious_: ack
08:06 PM Cromaglious_: hmm HP7475 plotter pcl3 probably
08:07 PM jdh: doesn't really help anything
08:08 PM jdh: dunno how old that one is, but old HP plotters were hpgl
08:08 PM andypugh: HPGL is pretty simple. I wrote an STL slicer for 3D printing that output HPGL for my Roland plotter.
08:08 PM andypugh: It was about 100 lines of Octave code
08:08 PM os1r1s: GregB What kind did you get?
08:09 PM andypugh: Used the plotter to cut out label paper, assembled the shapes into: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPXuj4R1h7P3oLpKCcGnfS-mFd-qO5nFPeWEY-40VKkLIfDkAhSi7m4YDPVm0JCGQ/photo/AF1QipMVmr3bHqEE3tdGfQASAxl9tV2l6gmFPAPyzOzx?key=dDNfajB5TTZDalphY2dKamtVeDdrcTRJaGZqdmZR
08:09 PM andypugh: Sorry, better link: https://goo.gl/photos/hqLGp6Vg8n6XGDgP7
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX9L0wGlE2w what I envision taking place after answering questions about LCNC and lasers
08:11 PM evilroot: Anybody in the market for a SERIOUSLY POWERFUL 4-Axis Cartesian machine?
08:11 PM * evilroot has a few more bots than will fit in his new lab
08:11 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: 40hp servos on each axis?
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: carves steel by shear will alone
08:12 PM andypugh: (Only used it once, assembling the layers was difficult and boring, made me feel physically unwell. I guess I got a taste of what it is like to have ADHD by pushing even myself to that edge. I am normally well on the other end of that scale, but that job….)
08:12 PM Cromaglious_: gantry moves and the parts jump out the steel
08:12 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: 500W servos actually
08:12 PM evilroot: And agressive leadscrews
08:13 PM andypugh: Pah! You have a _woman’s_ servos :-)
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: have pics?
08:13 PM GregB: Hey guys
08:13 PM GregB: sorry, was checking out the machines
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: what travels?
08:13 PM GregB: and am now caught up.
08:13 PM evilroot: 1m/sec move speed, 60micron X/Y and 40 Z
08:13 PM GregB: os1r1s: Not sure what you are referring to.
08:13 PM os1r1s: GregB Which laser system did you get?
08:14 PM evilroot: I have various sizes, but the most common is 800x600x200mm
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: lead vs ballscrews?
08:14 PM Cromaglious_: ULS
08:14 PM os1r1s: You said ULS, but not sure which model
08:14 PM GregB: Cromaglious_: are you saying that if I was to use a program that was capable of Plotting
08:14 PM os1r1s: ULS also makes versalaser
08:14 PM GregB: Ohh, damn
08:14 PM evilroot: The toolhead can carry up to 15kg
08:14 PM GregB: it just says ULS
08:14 PM evilroot: And rotates
08:14 PM GregB: give me a few, brb
08:14 PM os1r1s: GregB Which model ULS?
08:14 PM Cromaglious_: that's what the ULS model 25 manual said
08:15 PM os1r1s: They do have ones called ULS, but there should be a model too
08:15 PM evilroot: 15 control lines plus 120psi air and two multipurpose air/liquid lines to the toolhead as well
08:15 PM evilroot: Serious industrial machines
08:16 PM GregB: model is VLS
08:16 PM GregB: I think
08:16 PM GregB: damn thing has no labels
08:16 PM evilroot: https://goo.gl/photos/KcBiUiunMypWaScv8
08:17 PM GregB: just pulled it from the software
08:17 PM Cromaglious_: That would be more likey a Versa Laser then
08:17 PM evilroot: https://goo.gl/photos/WQpQXGVXkT8Pwiw88
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: Seiko Cartesian robots
08:18 PM jdh: with controllers?
08:18 PM evilroot: https://goo.gl/photos/T41p6G4EcckVPZzc7
08:18 PM GregB: https://www.ulsinc.com/build/existing-uls-system
08:18 PM GregB: VLS 4.60
08:18 PM CaptHindsight: ballscrews
08:18 PM evilroot: https://goo.gl/photos/yVmGz7rQgUg4UVLQA
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: auction stuff?
08:19 PM andypugh: evilroot: Looks like a plasma/laser waiting to happen. Which continent? How much?
08:20 PM evilroot: I got them at auction a while back yes. And I do have controllers
08:20 PM evilroot: North America, US East Coast
08:20 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: are the encoders on the motors or are there linear encoders?
08:20 PM andypugh: UK, near Europe. Not going to happen.
08:21 PM evilroot: I'm thinking $1800 for one
08:21 PM evilroot: They're on the motors
08:21 PM evilroot: https://goo.gl/photos/wfvHuMnQ13UX316q6
08:21 PM evilroot: Ultra high precision 8-wire quadrature encoders, Japanese made
08:22 PM andypugh: $1800 might be fair, bit wouldn’t tempt me. My last lathe cost less, and that’s 750kg of high-spec machine tool.
08:22 PM Cromaglious_: j,hmmm vls4.6 uses usb2 and a windows computer as a printer
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: little bit of oxidation on the profile bearings
08:22 PM evilroot: These are around 150kg. Very versatile though.
08:22 PM andypugh: evilroot: DC servos. How quaint. :-)
08:23 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: yeah, but not bad at all. Polishes off easily
08:23 PM GregB: Cromaglious_: yup
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: to worn for me
08:23 PM evilroot: They're built like fricking tanks
08:23 PM andypugh: Seriously, they look like a nice bit of kit, but not for me, especially with shipping.
08:23 PM evilroot: Worn?
08:23 PM jdh: 27 yr old DC servo
08:24 PM evilroot: There's no wear, just old grease that looks nasty.
08:24 PM Cromaglious_: hmmm I'd see if you could plot to it from a linux machine using a HP7475 plotter print driver...
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: fasteners are rusty, aluminum case on the motor and the adapter are heavily oxidized
08:24 PM GregB: I could probably do that, BUT
08:24 PM GregB: the machine won't turn on unless connected to a computer.
08:24 PM jdh: how would plotting from linux help
08:24 PM GregB: where it is setup as a printer.
08:24 PM evilroot: CaptHindsight: true
08:25 PM jdh: can you run 4 windows instances in VM's
08:25 PM GregB: I was thinking about that as well
08:25 PM Cromaglious_: he has a problem delivering jobs to the lasers...
08:25 PM CaptHindsight: must have seen some ocean air
08:25 PM andypugh: evilroot: When you come to sell, spend an hour or so with WD40 and Scotchbrite to make the working parts look shiny and “precision”
08:25 PM evilroot: Surprisingly enough they run perfectly even in that state, though I've cleaned up and relubed the ones I use
08:25 PM GregB: I mean, if all else fails, I'll setup a "hotfolder" using Inkscape or some other software on Windows
08:25 PM evilroot: andypugh: Oh totally, but I like to show them as they currently are
08:26 PM GregB: and have it immediately print, after it's gone through the templating software
08:26 PM Cromaglious_: GregB have you tried sharing a laser as a network printer and try to print to it from anoth hachine?
08:26 PM evilroot: If I'm going to spend a few days making them shiny I'll sell them for more, haha
08:26 PM jdh: surely you could script all of that
08:26 PM GregB: The only thing I'm really worried about is that the VM would have to have dedicated access to the USB
08:26 PM evilroot: Even attached a few extruders to one and had it do 3d printing
08:26 PM GregB: otherwise the machine won't even turn on.
08:27 PM evilroot: Totally a waste of the power, but I don't pay for electric heh
08:28 PM Cromaglious_: you put a headless itx windows pc on the laser. and print to it from over the network,,, there are ways to capture print jobs and resend them again
08:28 PM os1r1s: GregB I have a verslaser that I use
08:28 PM Cromaglious_: os1r1s, usb interface?
08:28 PM os1r1s: Mine is a 230, but it is similar to that one I'd guess
08:28 PM GregB: Cromaglious_: I have a print server built off Centos that'll handle the print Queue.
08:28 PM os1r1s: Crom: Yes
08:29 PM GregB: I'm not even remotely worried about the job queue.
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-DUAL-X-Y-Stage-Cartesian-Robot-34-x29-Travel-w-Heidenhain-LIDA-Encoder-/191629961442 $2k or best
08:29 PM GregB: I'm worried about sending them to the machine and the machine being able to take em.
08:29 PM os1r1s: Gregb: Are you trying to get it to work at all, or just trying to make them work with linux?
08:29 PM GregB: os1r1s: Is it just the one, or multiple?
08:29 PM os1r1s: GregB I just have one. It a personal laser at my hiome
08:30 PM GregB: No, I'm trying to setup an automated delivery process
08:30 PM GregB: I want an idiot to be able to play
08:30 PM GregB: and know the job is being done.
08:30 PM os1r1s: It does a lot over the USB
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adept-90400-800mm-550mm-Linear-Axis-XY-Cartesian-Robot-Module-w-Cables-Hoses/161756942138 $855 or best
08:30 PM os1r1s: I don't think its a basic print interface.
08:30 PM GregB: It sets up a dummy printer
08:30 PM os1r1s: It does more. Also controls the air cart and other accessories
08:30 PM GregB: on your computer
08:31 PM os1r1s: GregB The driver does more than that
08:31 PM Cromaglious_: probably sending a hpgpl plot file...
08:31 PM os1r1s: Normal printers don't deal with Z at all. That one does
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-D-TRAN-4-Axis-XM3106B-Cartesian-Robot-Cell-w-Computer-Controller-SRC-320-/162254013196 $2k or best
08:31 PM Cromaglious_: plotter deal with z
08:31 PM GregB: once you click print, you're sending it to the dummy printer, then that converts it into something(I assume plotter or gcode, but don't know what I'm talking about there), then that software mimicing a printer sends the job to the controller on the machine.
08:32 PM GregB: That APPEARS to be how it's working
08:32 PM GregB: feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
08:33 PM os1r1s: The versalaser software picks it up from the print queue and does whatever it needs to do.
08:33 PM os1r1s: And sends it over USB
08:33 PM GregB: yup
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IAI-Corporation-X-Y-Axis-Cartesian-Robot-IS-L-X-MX-20-400-1200-LL-W-T1-INC-SP-/371809523507 $880 or best
08:33 PM os1r1s: But the printer driver does almost nothing with USB. Its really just a dumb interface to get images into their software
08:34 PM os1r1s: Teh VLS software does everything
08:34 PM Cromaglious_: hmmm hpgl to g code on sourceforge
08:34 PM GregB: the VLS Software IS the print driver.
08:34 PM GregB: I forget the technical term
08:34 PM os1r1s: No. Its two different pieces. If you install the advanced driver, you can see the separation
08:35 PM GregB: ok, moot point
08:35 PM GregB: but perhaps you're right.
08:35 PM os1r1s: And I can run the VLS software without ever sending anything through the emulated LPT
08:35 PM os1r1s: And run the laser
08:35 PM evilroot: Interesting
08:35 PM GregB: right, like a daemon
08:36 PM os1r1s: No, in the foreground
08:36 PM GregB: Do you not click the tray icon
08:36 PM os1r1s: Literally I click the green icon, launch the software, and can resend anything that has been sent already
08:36 PM GregB: and click launch to bring it to the front?
08:36 PM evilroot: Though the Seiko is "For Parts Not Working"
08:36 PM GregB: It never stops running, unless you explicitly exit it, right?
08:37 PM os1r1s: GregB Yeah, we are probably saying the same thing. But it doesn't really do anything in the background so I don't really think of it as a daemon
08:37 PM GregB: most likely.
08:37 PM evilroot: Oh, also have several brand new 1000mm pnematic linear motion systems
08:37 PM os1r1s: GregB I would love to run mine on a platform other than windows. So what you are doing is very intriguing.
08:38 PM os1r1s: I have a shit windows box sitting there (and a VM) to print to it
08:38 PM GregB: I have no doubt that if I was to convert a job to the correct format, it would print it just fine.
08:38 PM GregB: the ONLY part I'm worried about, is that the machine will not run, unless the VLS software is running
08:38 PM GregB: and it can only run one at a time.
08:39 PM GregB: unless on a VM
08:39 PM GregB: which just sucks
08:40 PM os1r1s: It does suck from that perspective
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: evilroot: what was the repeatability new? ~0.3mm?
08:41 PM evilroot: .06 X/Y, .04 Z
08:42 PM evilroot: And still is, I tested several
08:42 PM evilroot: Some are better, but they're all within original spec thus far
08:42 PM evilroot: Very good encoders, heh
08:43 PM evilroot: I do have a huge CMM too, but its CRAZY heavy
08:43 PM Crom: ok just ordered a 2GB stick of ram for the linuxcnc computer
08:44 PM evilroot: Thing must weigh a good 1000kg
08:44 PM evilroot: Since the surface plate is 8" thick solid granite
08:48 PM jdh: what were they used for originally?
08:52 PM XXCoder: wow evil is herter
08:52 PM XXCoder: here. root even
09:06 PM andypugh: GregB: I have a USB printer here conected to a Rasperry Pi running CUPS. That converted my USB/Ethernet printer into a WiFi Printer. Would Pi+CUPS work for you?
09:31 PM Crom: probably have to also run the samba cups interface...
09:31 PM Crom: doing straight cups from windows blowz... big chucks!
09:32 PM Crom: DOH! It's git not apt-get... sheeshz... <-- geting old...
09:38 PM andypugh: If I got this for £30, what coud I use it for? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Rivett-Internal-Grinder-/172564858404
09:43 PM XXCoder: andypugh: grinder after massive rebuilding?
09:43 PM andypugh: £30 isn’t a problem. FInding space might be
09:44 PM XXCoder: ahh too bad doc who inside is bigger tech dont exist
09:44 PM andypugh: And, I also have access (200 miles away) to a machine that can do the same thing. I think this is me resisting.
09:45 PM Crom: looks to have decent Y and X travel
09:45 PM Crom: that gear box on the end would be worth it..
09:45 PM andypugh: It’s Rivett. It will be lovely.
09:46 PM Crom: hell for 30 ukp it's worth it for the oilers
09:48 PM Crom: grinder spindle... think it's in ball bearings of plain bearings?
09:48 PM andypugh: Yes, and no. Could you scrap that and keep only the oilers?
09:50 PM andypugh: I actually have a brand-new internal grinding spindle in its tin box. They tend to be plain-bearing because that works better, and they are a replacable module that only costs £1000 or so.
09:50 PM Crom: I see 4 oilers + handles + the right angle gear box
09:51 PM andypugh: (in the context of the work they do, a new spindle module every few years is just a consumable)
09:51 PM Crom: if you had the time, the rods are worth it... strip all you could get off of it then take it to the scrap metal yard
09:52 PM andypugh: Well, yes, but that’s not my style. I have a Rivett lathe. The only space I could find for it is in my living room…
09:52 PM roycroft: so, cazeneuve lathes
09:52 PM Crom: oh that table has a taper adjustment.. that little know below the right motor on the front of the table
09:52 PM roycroft: i'm not familiar with the, but they're allegedly very good lathes
09:52 PM roycroft: and there is one for sale
09:53 PM roycroft: is it potentially worth pursuing?
09:53 PM Crom: itailian?
09:53 PM roycroft: french
09:53 PM Crom: Only if the company is near italy
09:53 PM Crom: ;)
09:54 PM Crom: or near germany
09:54 PM andypugh: (not a joke, here it is. All the girls I know think it is very pretty. https://goo.gl/photos/4N7JwK9CAmvK7dvR9 )
09:54 PM roycroft: i hope that's not a picture of your unit
09:54 PM roycroft: because that would be way too much sharing
09:55 PM roycroft: is that tv off to the side for touchy?
09:55 PM XXCoder: lathe right in living room
09:55 PM andypugh: roycroft: Some Cazaneuve lathes are quite exceptional. Which model is the one in question>
09:56 PM roycroft: HB575
09:56 PM andypugh: http://www.lathes.co.uk/cazeneuve360/
09:57 PM roycroft: it's a bit beyond my budget limit, but it's been advertised for a long time, so the price may be squishy
09:57 PM andypugh: Not exactly the HB575, but some of them really are _very_ fancy manual lathes.
09:57 PM roycroft: and it's in a fairly remote place, but not too far from here
09:58 PM andypugh: How much?
09:58 PM roycroft: they're asking $6000
09:58 PM roycroft: $4000 would be really pushing what i can do
09:59 PM roycroft: https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/tls/6038633904.html
09:59 PM roycroft: that's it
09:59 PM roycroft: it's bigger than i want, but i could make room for it
10:00 PM andypugh: They are a bit special, but the HB575 looks quite a bit less special than the 360
10:00 PM andypugh: They definitely are a top-flight lathe.
10:01 PM roycroft: it would likely be better than any of the asian lathes i've been looking at
10:01 PM andypugh: Absolutely.
10:02 PM andypugh: Part of a class that includes Dean Smith and Grace, Holbrook and Monarch.
10:04 PM andypugh: Looks like the guard travels with the carriage, Not seen that before. What a great ida.
10:05 PM Crom: nice looking lathe.. Andy's in the living is a work of art though
10:06 PM roycroft: i might contact them
10:06 PM roycroft: and work harder on selling one of my vw buses
10:06 PM andypugh: Different things. My Rivett is a museum piece, the Cazaneuve is a top-class working tool.
10:06 PM roycroft: yeah, i noticed that moving guard
10:06 PM roycroft: that's pretty neat
10:07 PM roycroft: especially if you're going to put it in your living room - it would really help keep the chips down
10:07 PM Crom: hehe... if that happened I'd be looking for wife #4
10:08 PM roycroft: you would be beating teh donald if you did that1
10:08 PM roycroft: and he might tweet you donw
10:08 PM roycroft: down
10:08 PM andypugh: roycroft: http://www.lathes.co.uk/cazeneuve-part-2/
10:09 PM Crom: new error.... java.lang.Error: Cannot load com.sun.java.swing.plaf.gtk.GTKLookAndFeel
10:09 PM Crom: what the heck is that?
10:09 PM XXCoder: hmm freecad cam seems better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4JUnB1AHdY
10:09 PM XXCoder: but still eh
10:09 PM andypugh: Quotes from lathes.co.uk:
10:09 PM andypugh: Cazeneuve HB 500 and HB575 - additional pictures on this page
10:09 PM andypugh: Cazeneuve HB Series lathes were truly impressive machines - the 500/700 lathes for example, with centre heights of approximately 8 and 10 inches respectively, had beds that were 15.75 inches wide - and so far exceeded that old rule-of-thumb for a toolroom-class lathe which states that the width of the bed must be at least equal to the centre height.
10:10 PM roycroft: i think i would really enjoy operating that lathe
10:10 PM roycroft: i wonder if i would need to wear a beret when turning
10:11 PM * roycroft looks for the wine glass holder on the lathe
10:12 PM andypugh: You would need to learn the skill of wearing an overcoat without actually putting your arms through the sleeves,
10:12 PM roycroft: and growing a pencil moustache?
10:13 PM andypugh: Another lathes.co.uk quote: Because Cazeneuve machines have always been of the very expensive, super-precision type, impressively detailed and made from top-quality materials assembled with great care, the name is little known outside professional engineering circles - although it certainly deserves wider recognition
10:14 PM roycroft: i had not heard of them
10:14 PM Crom: and wearing the black and white horizontal striped shirt and the pointy boots
10:14 PM andypugh: The one you have found (if it is in good condition, and not worn out) is probably the absolute best lathe within 100 miles of its location.
10:14 PM roycroft: but i knew some folks here, especially them from the east side of the pond, would be familiar
10:14 PM roycroft: not to mention i would have to pretend to take up smoking soas to have a cigarette dangling from my lower lip at all times
10:15 PM roycroft: i should imagine that lathe weighs a ton or so
10:15 PM roycroft: which would make moving it difficult
10:15 PM Crom: at least
10:15 PM roycroft: 1/2 ton i can handle with no problem
10:16 PM roycroft: much more than that and i'll need other means to move it than what i posess
10:16 PM andypugh: HIAB truck. Just factor that in
10:16 PM Crom: rent a fork lift trailer
10:16 PM roycroft: yes
10:16 PM * evilroot yawns
10:16 PM roycroft: it was 19 degrees today
10:16 PM roycroft: and sunny
10:16 PM roycroft: and will be like that several times over the next week or so
10:16 PM andypugh: (AWhat do you call a HIAB Truck in the US?
10:16 PM roycroft: i think i'll spend some time this weekend checking out the vw bus i want to sell
10:17 PM roycroft: and try to get that ready to list
10:17 PM Crom: andypugh, flatbed tow truck
10:17 PM roycroft: the bus should bring in $6k easily
10:17 PM roycroft: which would pay the asking price for that lathe
10:17 PM Crom: shit down here.. busses are going for $12000 in decent shape
10:18 PM roycroft: it appears to be in good, but well-used condition from the picture
10:18 PM roycroft: mine is a '65 standard
10:18 PM roycroft: it's not running
10:18 PM roycroft: and the interior has been almost completely stripped
10:18 PM roycroft: but the body is relatively rust-free
10:18 PM roycroft: and that's rather rare for a '65 these days
10:18 PM Crom: yeah $6K would be a good price
10:19 PM Crom: hehe turn it into a samba
10:19 PM roycroft: i could get $2k locally
10:19 PM roycroft: but $6k or more on thesamba.com
10:19 PM roycroft: bus people back east grab them up as fast as they can find them
10:20 PM roycroft: interesting prospect
10:20 PM roycroft: essentially trading a german bus for a french lathe
10:21 PM roycroft: i'm getting tired of trying to chase down the great deals on the asian lathes
10:21 PM roycroft: and the south bends that i see just don't excite me enough to pay what folks want
10:22 PM roycroft: i find the occasional clausing or hardinge, but they're ususually turret lathes or some other specialty lathe
10:22 PM andypugh: Crom: Not really: A HIAB has a crane that can put the lathe into the right place in the workshop. The one that delivered the Elliot mill to the MC workshop could reach 15m at 4 tons. http://keithrhodes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Fassi-1000-Lathe-Machine-Move.jpg
10:22 PM roycroft: so maybe finding a way to spend a bit more on something like this cazeneuve would make sense
10:23 PM roycroft: and i would not cnc it
10:23 PM Crom: hmmm boom truck would do that.. DOn't know if my crane guy has a folding arm... he has several boom trucks
10:23 PM roycroft: the lathe would go in my garage
10:23 PM roycroft: which has a low overhead door
10:24 PM roycroft: it would be difficult for almost any boom or crane to reach into it
10:24 PM roycroft: the best i could hope for, i think, is a very heavy duty lift gate that could lift it down right in front of the door
10:24 PM roycroft: or just inside the garage
10:24 PM andypugh: roycroft: That Cazaneuve (depending on condition, snd the slides look freaky-good, like recent regrind) knocks anything Asian (except perhaps Feeler, but those are smaller) and Southbend / Clausing into a cocked hat.
10:25 PM roycroft: the pics on lathes.co.uk tell me that cazeneuve make very high quality lathe
10:25 PM roycroft: s
10:25 PM Crom: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/1056624-move-forklift.html
10:25 PM roycroft: the toolholder is rather interesting
10:26 PM andypugh: roycroft: Some booms can reverse the second link and reach into low headroom. The one we had picked the mill out of a standard single-car garage.
10:26 PM roycroft: it appears to have a ratchet indexing thing
10:26 PM andypugh: roycroft: Multifix. I have one on my lathe, about as good as they get
10:26 PM Crom: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/tow-rigs-trailers/663288d1333319318-move-forklift-6217_0.jpg
10:27 PM roycroft: i've never seen one like that
10:27 PM roycroft: i think, andypugh, that you're telling me i should pursue this one if i can find a way to finance it
10:28 PM andypugh: http://www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/
10:29 PM andypugh: roycroft: No, I am not saying that. I am saying that it is about as good a lathe as has ever been made. But only you know if that is what you want or need.
10:30 PM roycroft: the multifix looks like an aloris with a nice indexing feature, although the mechanism is different
10:31 PM andypugh: Claimed repeatability is quite a bit better, as is rigidity.
10:31 PM andypugh: Slightly more trouble to change holders.
10:32 PM andypugh: (you have to make sure you are not between positions)
10:32 PM Crom: multifix is the one Abom79 uses right?
10:32 PM roycroft: on the other hand, i dislike having to rotate the aloris-type toolholders
10:32 PM roycroft: so one could claim it's a wash
10:32 PM andypugh: Crom: Yes.
10:33 PM Crom: roycroft, it's an excellent tool holder... just freaking expensive!
10:34 PM roycroft: and that's a consideration
10:34 PM roycroft: if the lathe does not come with enough toolholders there could be a significant expense procuring more
10:34 PM Crom: if you have a mill you can make more holders
10:35 PM andypugh: http://www.createtool.com make good copies, and their rep (calls herself Nina) responds to emails quickly. Very happy with them, and what they sent me.
10:35 PM Crom: I'd like one, since you can pretty much make sure your tool is at the correct angle.
10:35 PM roycroft: well i can say that that is more lathe than i need, for sure
10:35 PM Crom: aloris.. you gotta fool around and turn them
10:36 PM roycroft: but it may still be within the scope of what i can handle in my shop
10:36 PM Crom: I have a shars axa equivelent...
10:37 PM Crom: though it's a wedge type
10:38 PM andypugh: This is my Create Tool clone, runs about $33 per holder. Not cheap, but bearable. https://goo.gl/photos/qGnS1AaFFm4VnkdBA
10:38 PM roycroft: the wedge types are generally more repeatable than the piston types
10:38 PM roycroft: $33 is not bad
10:39 PM Crom: I need to warm up the handle and tweak it a bit...
10:41 PM Crom: that's an older picture isn't it?
10:41 PM Crom: that lathe has all the motors on it now
10:42 PM andypugh: Multifix is a multi-spline. Repeatability is about the best of all the designs.
10:43 PM roycroft: i really like the looks of that cazeneuve
10:43 PM andypugh: Crom: Yes, my lathe is now fully functional, used it today.
10:43 PM roycroft: and while function is always most important, i place a lot of value on the way a machine looks as well
10:43 PM roycroft: most of the asian stuff really annoys me to look at
10:44 PM roycroft: and a lot of the asian stuff is also uncomfortable to use
10:44 PM roycroft: sharp edges, cheap, undersized handles, etc.
10:44 PM Crom: I'm really looking forward to getting some JMC-motor integrated hybrid steppers..
10:45 PM andypugh: roycroft: That’s why I bought my Holbrook. It _looked_ right. Also the design suited CNC conversion. Converting the Cazaneouve would be a crime, you would be throwing away all the best bits. But you said that wasn’t the plan,
10:45 PM roycroft: correct
10:45 PM roycroft: i would keep it manual forever
10:45 PM roycroft: and buy something else to convert to cnc
10:45 PM roycroft: i absolutely agree that converting the cazeneuve would be criminal
10:47 PM andypugh: Todays project, made on the Holbrook, hobbed on the Harrison: https://goo.gl/photos/MBwRrYioynpQB7H37
10:48 PM roycroft: a 12x36 would be the ideal size for me for a manual lathe, but if it's going to cost me $3k+ for an asian 12x36, that cezeneuve starts to look attractive
10:48 PM Crom: I'm looking forward to gettting a lathe that can do a 0.250" cut and not stop... anything over 0.015" gives me problems on my 1945 Sheldon
10:49 PM andypugh: roycroft: It’s certainly more than twice as good (repeat: If it is in good condition)
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: cartesian robot parts going on poopstarter http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/10/14881310/snapmaker-modular-3d-printer-a-cnc-machine-laser-cutter-kickstarter
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.snapmaker.com/kickstarter-lead.html
10:51 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: That actually looks like really quite a good idea
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: I was witing for someone in China to start making some half way decent linear positioners
10:52 PM XXCoder: 3 days'
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: I'd like to see what they have inside the extrusions
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: PRINT HEAD TRAVEL SPEED 10 - 150mm/s, if they asre leadscrews they won't last long
10:54 PM andypugh: 0424. I should be asleep. G’night all
10:54 PM XXCoder: capt there is movement kits
10:54 PM XXCoder: that thing is just made from 3 of that
10:54 PM XXCoder: i didnt save link to that site
10:55 PM XXCoder: example
10:55 PM XXCoder: https://www.boschrexroth.com/en/xc/products/product-groups/linear-motion-technology/linear-motion-systems/linear-modules/index
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: at $300 for just the 3 positioners with motors it must be belt driven
10:57 PM XXCoder: hm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1QNptYlWto
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: so ok for printing and engraving but no real cutting forces allowed
10:57 PM XXCoder: yeah little ore than engraving
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: mandarin spoken in the background
10:58 PM XXCoder: hmm you can see insides with this
10:58 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCcvn_FF0-A
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: belt drives are cheap
10:59 PM XXCoder: looks like acme or leadscrew
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: won't last long going 150mm/S
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: if it's not a belt or ballscrew
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCcvn_FF0-A the screw is visible
11:05 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: thats what I said!
11:06 PM XXCoder: in fact I even linked video :P
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: ah you want recognition
11:09 PM XXCoder: ?
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: your video didn't show the screw
11:09 PM XXCoder: ??
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: and now you want to argue
11:10 PM XXCoder: what the fuck you talking about?
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: did you pay for 10 minutes or the full 30?
11:10 PM XXCoder: your link was exactly same video and you says mine doesnt show screw?
11:10 PM XXCoder: wtf
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1QNptYlWto no screw
11:11 PM XXCoder: that wasnt my last link.
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCcvn_FF0-A with scew
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: happy?
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: nobody is trying to take anything from you
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: sheesh
11:12 PM XXCoder: im just confused
11:12 PM XXCoder: you seem to be missing my last 2 lines
11:12 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCcvn_FF0-A
11:12 PM XXCoder: <XXCoder> looks like acme or leadscrew
11:13 PM XXCoder: then you seem to think im pissed or something
11:13 PM XXCoder: wtf
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: bbl, hammer in sand time
11:13 PM XXCoder: btw confused is not pissed
11:15 PM XXCoder: someones been hitting sand with hammer too hard
11:15 PM XXCoder: or maybe hitting bottle too hard
11:41 PM MacGalempsy: good evening
11:42 PM Crom: morning
11:42 PM XXCoder: yo mac
11:42 PM XXCoder: hows things
11:42 PM MacGalempsy: back home for a few days
11:42 PM XXCoder: home sweet home
11:42 PM Crom: time to shovel snow or mow grass?
11:42 PM MacGalempsy: yeah, nothing like sleeping in my own bed
11:43 PM XXCoder: or shovel grass or mow snow?
11:43 PM MacGalempsy: tomorrow will be starting the mower and doind a few laps
11:43 PM roycroft: i've needed to mow for a month
11:43 PM roycroft: but it's been so bloody wet i've not been able to
11:43 PM MacGalempsy: my weedeater seized up...
11:43 PM Crom: that'
11:44 PM Crom: s an OPJ here
11:44 PM Crom: Other Person's Job
11:44 PM MacGalempsy: we dont really have opj here
11:44 PM Crom: no money for rent? Mow, dishes, keep front bathroom clean and kitchen and I'll even feed you
11:44 PM XXCoder: hitchiker guide to glaxy had "not my problem" fields
11:45 PM XXCoder: makes people refuse to look at it, better than very hard to do invisiability lol
11:45 PM MacGalempsy: need to layout some preemergent, too
11:47 PM MacGalempsy: all kinds of stuff to do, but it may rain and ruin all plans
11:48 PM Crom: You can see his wood working vid's on Daniel baca https://www.youtube.com/user/deneyael
11:50 PM Crom: more time for me to play with arduino's and cnc