#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 21 2017

12:02 AM MacGalempsy: with plastic, how critical is heating the chamber?
12:04 AM MacGalempsy: and inert gas injection?
12:04 AM CaptHindsight: depends on the material/s
12:04 AM pfred1: probably not very
12:04 AM CaptHindsight: same
12:04 AM pfred1: plastic is a heck of a lot easier to melt than metal
12:04 AM CaptHindsight: temp ramp down as well
12:04 AM MacGalempsy: im just looking to print a better yoda head :]
12:04 AM pfred1: it is all about the Yoda
12:06 AM pfred1: I recently thought of one great use for 3D printers
12:06 AM CaptHindsight: some plastics need to be held within +/- 1 deg C
12:06 AM MacGalempsy: something small enough to bring out to the rig and mess around with
12:06 AM pfred1: making electrical connectors
12:06 AM pfred1: I could still buy a lot of connectors for what a 3D printer would cost
12:06 AM MacGalempsy: hobbies are notoriously expensive
12:06 AM CaptHindsight: plastic and metal powders
12:06 AM CaptHindsight: then you can print an entire screw driver
12:06 AM pfred1: they shuoldn't be
12:08 AM pfred1: it shuld always experienced correctly
12:08 AM roycroft: speaking of srewdrivers, i need a new set
12:08 AM roycroft: there are no decent craftsman screwdrivers any more
12:08 AM pfred1: I am set for screwdrivers
12:08 AM roycroft: and snap-on are super expensive
12:09 AM roycroft: is there anything good in between?
12:09 AM MacGalempsy: go get that snapon set you always wanted
12:09 AM roycroft: even mac are super expensive
12:09 AM pfred1: I would like a new precision set though must because
12:09 AM roycroft: that snap-on set is $400
12:09 AM pfred1: I hve snap-on screwdrivers
12:09 AM roycroft: but i do like them
12:09 AM MacGalempsy: youre rich. just do it
12:09 AM pfred1: yeh they're OK
12:09 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.kleintools.com/
12:09 AM roycroft: i am not rich
12:09 AM roycroft: not at all
12:09 AM roycroft: i have klein for electrical stuff
12:09 AM CaptHindsight: a bit lower cost than snapon
12:09 AM pfred1: I have some klein nutdrivers
12:09 AM MacGalempsy: rich enough to worry about what color to paint your cnc
12:09 AM roycroft: i have klein nutrunners too
12:10 AM CaptHindsight: they used to be made just outside Chicago
12:10 AM pfred1: I have some deep Vaco nutdrivers
12:10 AM pfred1: they're really nice
12:10 AM roycroft: klein don't make enough of a variety for general mechanic work though
12:10 AM roycroft: i like the feel of the soft snap-on ones
12:10 AM pfred1: heck I didn't even know they made deep nutdrivers
12:10 AM MacGalempsy: i picked up a wahl somewhere and it has a nice hamdle
12:11 AM roycroft: i use deep sockets and a 1/4" driver handle
12:11 AM pfred1: but when I saw them I just had to have them
12:11 AM roycroft: but deep nut runners would be nice
12:11 AM CaptHindsight: then they moved to some 3rd world state
12:11 AM CaptHindsight: Mansfield, TX :)
12:12 AM roycroft: i might just start buying individual snap on screwdrivers as the old craftsman pro ones wear out to the point of being intolerable
12:12 AM roycroft: sears will still replace them, but they don't make decent screwdrivers anymore, so i get crappy ones to replace the good ones
12:13 AM roycroft: and they just sold the craftsman brand, so i doubt that i'll even be able to get crappy replacements for long
12:13 AM SpeedEvil: There is of course another way to replace your screwdrivers with quality.
12:13 AM SpeedEvil: CNC!
12:13 AM SpeedEvil: Would be a fun project.
12:13 AM roycroft: it would cost me more than $40 in time to make a screwdriver
12:14 AM roycroft: so i might as well spend $40 for a snap on
12:14 AM SpeedEvil: I was more assuming something that took a bar and a shape.
12:14 AM pfred1: this box deal put me over the top with screwdrivers http://i.imgur.com/s4hMwTG.jpg
12:14 AM SpeedEvil: And made a hex bit.
12:15 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Hi-Vis-20-Piece-Variety-Pack-Screwdriver-Set/1000135631
12:16 AM roycroft: i really don't like lowes tools
12:16 AM CaptHindsight: Irwin is another https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-8-Piece-Variety-Pack-Screwdriver-Set/1000031055
12:16 AM roycroft: they are in between harbor freight and craftsman in quality
12:16 AM roycroft: similar to the husky brand at home depot
12:16 AM pfred1: I like Harbor Freight professional made in Taiwan tools
12:16 AM roycroft: irwin is probably slightly better than lowes
12:16 AM roycroft: that's the second time today i've seen "harbor freight" and "professional" used in the same sentence
12:17 AM pfred1: least their sockets
12:17 AM roycroft: i shuddered both times :)
12:17 AM pfred1: hey the sockets are decent
12:17 AM pfred1: I have snap-on socket sets too
12:17 AM pfred1: so I know what decent sockets are
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.gearwrench.com/screwdrivers-and-nutdrivers/screwdrivers
12:18 AM pfred1: I have liek a thousand dollar metric snp-on set
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: they still sell Mac around here but only from the trucks
12:18 AM pfred1: 6mm-26mm 3/8s chrome deep set
12:19 AM roycroft: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=&item_ID=645279&group_ID=682253&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
12:19 AM roycroft: that's actually not a bad starter set
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: www.mactools.com/en-us/Screwdrivers-and-Bits/Screwdrivers/SDB12CR/12-PC-Mac-Grip-Combination-Screwdriver-Set-Red- $200
12:19 AM Wolf_: I like gearwrench stuff
12:19 AM roycroft: and it would replace most of my most worn screwdrivers
12:19 AM roycroft: mac are nice, but about the same price as snap on
12:19 AM pfred1: Wolf_ I've heard snap-on makes gearwrench
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: thats because they come to you
12:20 AM Wolf_: they are good on warranty stuff, you can call them and they will mail you replacments
12:20 AM roycroft: blue point are the same as snap on
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: call them when they break
12:20 AM roycroft: literally the same, except for the name
12:20 AM roycroft: same part numbers and everything
12:20 AM pfred1: blue point is stuff snap-on brands
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: they drive out, replace it and then try to sell you a bunch of other stuff
12:20 AM roycroft: that mac set looks nice
12:20 AM pfred1: I have a blue point air body saw made in taiwan
12:20 AM roycroft: i'd like to get my hands on one of those
12:21 AM roycroft: to see how comfortable they are
12:21 AM MacGalempsy: wahl was not correct. these are the ones https://www.wihatools.com/screwdrivers
12:21 AM pfred1: you can get the same saw from harbor freight for like $30
12:21 AM roycroft: i really like the feel of the snap on instinct soft grip ones
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: I don't really care anymore unless they bend or break
12:21 AM roycroft: i have wiha for my electronics screwdrivers
12:21 AM roycroft: they are the brest
12:21 AM roycroft: best
12:22 AM roycroft: i also have a wiha minature torx set
12:22 AM MacGalempsy: 20 for $100
12:22 AM MacGalempsy: their solid handles feel good
12:23 AM roycroft: i don't have any experience with wiha full-size screwdrivers
12:23 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-screwdrivers/=16g2dxn
12:24 AM roycroft: i think of wiha as very precise, but not necessarly very tough
12:24 AM roycroft: but i could be wrong about that
12:24 AM MacGalempsy: https://www.wihatools.com/esd-safe-master-technicians-50-piece-set
12:24 AM roycroft: i suppose if you put a hex shank on a screwdriver, though, you expect someone to abuse it
12:25 AM pfred1: here's screwdrivers that make Snap-On look cheap https://www.amazon.com/HAZET-810SPC-Screwdriver-Burnished-Chrome-Plated/dp/B01HR4OLXI/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1487656507&sr=1-1&keywords=hazet+screwdriver
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.zoro.com/milwaukee-screwdriver-set-slottedphillipssq-8-pc-48-22-2018/i/G9039274
12:26 AM pfred1: I think they may have made screwdrivers for Snap-On for a while?
12:26 AM pfred1: because old Hazets looked a lot like old Snap-Ons
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Screwdriver-Set-15-Piece-246340150/204663546 heh Husky
12:28 AM CaptHindsight: Proto https://www.zoro.com/proto-screwdriver-set-slottedphillips-8-pc-j1208sc/i/G5291115
12:29 AM CaptHindsight: and SK https://www.zoro.com/sk-professional-tools-screwdriver-set-slottedphillips-9-pc-86007/i/G5120963/
12:29 AM CaptHindsight: I thought they were out of business
12:29 AM roycroft: all similarly priced
12:29 AM CaptHindsight: I have SK from the 70's
12:29 AM roycroft: but proto, mac, sk, and snap on are the ones to get if one can afford it
12:30 AM CaptHindsight: was SK known outside of Chicago
12:30 AM CaptHindsight: they were another local that sold throughhardware stores and auto parts
12:30 AM MacGalempsy: yeah. i picked up a set at the fleamarket once
12:31 AM MacGalempsy: they were well made
12:31 AM roycroft: for what i do, craftsman socket sets and combination wrences are fine
12:31 AM roycroft: i have some snap on
12:31 AM roycroft: and they are nicer
12:31 AM roycroft: but not worth the extra cost
12:31 AM CaptHindsight: I recently turned my SK 1/2 driver into a breaker bar
12:31 AM roycroft: my craftsman wrenches are the fully polished ones
12:31 AM roycroft: but still a fraction of the cost of snap on
12:33 AM roycroft: it sucks that i can't take my screwdrivers back to sears and get suitable replacements any more
12:33 AM roycroft: i bought that set in the '80s, and i've replaced almost every one at least once
12:33 AM roycroft: i think the #4 phillips may be the only one i've never repaced
12:33 AM roycroft: replaced
12:34 AM pfred1: I regrind screwdriver tips
12:34 AM MacGalempsy: make them mail you the pro series from the catalog. they will if you ask
12:34 AM roycroft: if they still make them
12:34 AM roycroft: since they sold the brand i'm not sure what the status is
12:35 AM pfred1: I bought this screwdriver at a flea market for a quarter and it was shot to hell http://i.imgur.com/T7GpxTs.jpg
12:36 AM SpeedEvil: pfred1: flat is cheating though
12:36 AM pfred1: SpeedEvil I regrind phillips too
12:37 AM pfred1: when they cam out I flatten them again
12:37 AM roycroft: good screwdrivers have tips that are blasted and vapor coated
12:38 AM roycroft: you can't regrind them and get the same grip that they had from the factory
12:38 AM pfred1: they turn screws so they're good to me
12:38 AM pfred1: I can grind them so they grip great
12:38 AM pfred1: maybe you can't but i can
12:39 AM roycroft: i'm not sure i would agree that you can regrind them and make them as good as factory
12:39 AM roycroft: but regardless, i'd rather just exchange them for new ones when they wear out
12:39 AM roycroft: that's easier
12:40 AM pfred1: maybe the older i get the more convinced i am that steel gets harder as it ages because I'v seen it happen now in my lifetime
12:41 AM pfred1: I've owned some tools for decades
12:41 AM pfred1: like 4 decades
12:42 AM pfred1: I bought a cheap set of Japanese punches when i was a kid they were like rubber than i got them they're not bad now
12:43 AM pfred1: seeing is believing
12:45 AM pfred1: I don't know if any studies of steel crystalizing over time have ever been done at lest I've never heard of it
12:45 AM pfred1: but I've seen it
12:45 AM roycroft: or maybe you were stronger when you were younger :)
12:45 AM pfred1: perhaps
12:45 AM roycroft: i have tools going back to the '70s
12:45 AM roycroft: since i owned them, that is
12:45 AM pfred1: my impression of steel hasn't changed a whole lot I don't think
12:46 AM pfred1: I appreciated steel at an early age
12:46 AM roycroft: i did mostly woodworking when i was younger
12:46 AM roycroft: but always had an interest in machining
12:46 AM pfred1: I have some ancient woodworking tools
12:46 AM pfred1: some of that is crap
12:47 AM roycroft: i have some planes dating from the 19th century
12:47 AM roycroft: i don't equate "old" and "quality"
12:47 AM roycroft: some old stuff is good
12:47 AM pfred1: because they would insert hard steel into the edges
12:47 AM roycroft: some is shite
12:47 AM roycroft: just like new stuff
12:48 AM pfred1: I have an old Cherry plane
12:48 AM pfred1: two cherries
12:49 AM pfred1: I have some old chisels too
12:49 AM pfred1: this is an old chisel http://i.imgur.com/QLrCh.jpg
12:51 AM roycroft: i'm not a tool collector per se
12:51 AM roycroft: i only acquire users
12:51 AM pfred1: ah my two cherries plane is in this picture http://i.imgur.com/shZvn.jpg
12:52 AM pfred1: roycroft once i found out what that James swan chisel was worth I found other chisels to use
12:52 AM pfred1: I picked it up for 50 cents though
12:53 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.carid.com/williams-tools/1390-pieces-mammoth-set-complete-mpn-wsc-1390tb.html?view=308249&gclid=CMGNxODGoNICFQGSaQodIn8BTA ~$31K
12:53 AM roycroft: looking at the sears website, there are still some craftsman professional screwdrivers available, but very few
12:53 AM roycroft: only 13, most of them torx
12:54 AM roycroft: it's obvious they've been discontinued
12:54 AM pfred1: sears is discontinued
12:54 AM roycroft: i have 2 #2 phillips screwdrivers that need to be replaced, and they have zero on their website
12:54 AM roycroft: i'm surprised sears are still in business
12:55 AM pfred1: I think everyone is surprised at this point
12:55 AM pfred1: they won't last the year
12:55 AM roycroft: bah
12:55 AM roycroft: if they go under, trump will bring them back!
12:55 AM CaptHindsight: cheaper on Amamzon https://www.amazon.com/Williams-WSC-1390TB-1390-Piece-Mammoth-Complete/dp/B001355MX6
12:55 AM CaptHindsight: bring them back bigly
12:55 AM pfred1: I doubt it he's probably never been in a sears in his life
12:56 AM roycroft: i doubt he's ever been near a coal mine in his life
12:56 AM roycroft: but he's going to bring back all the mining jobs
12:56 AM pfred1: he ain't brought them back either
12:56 AM roycroft: it doesn't matter if he does or he doesn't
12:56 AM roycroft: what matters is that he'll say he did
12:57 AM pfred1: perception is reality
12:57 AM roycroft: these days it is, sadly
12:57 AM pfred1: I like how he won the second debate
12:57 AM pfred1: he won because he said he did
12:57 AM roycroft: i guess since we have alternative realities we need alternative facts
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: I'm still getting over the recent terror attack in Sweden
12:57 AM pfred1: but in a day it was true!
12:57 AM roycroft: anyway, we're getting into territory that's uncomfortable for some in this channel
12:58 AM MacGalempsy: sounds like you need a counsellor
12:58 AM roycroft: so we should probably go back to talking about screwdrivers or something
12:58 AM CaptHindsight: fake attacks are the most difficult to get over
12:58 AM pfred1: I like Trump
12:58 AM roycroft: the best way is to just not follow the news closely
12:59 AM pfred1: he's the kind of guy you want in a lifeboat when it is sinking
12:59 AM roycroft: i think he's one of the most despicable persons ever to hold public office in this country
12:59 AM roycroft: and that's saying a lot
12:59 AM roycroft: because we've had some pretty horrible politicians
12:59 AM pfred1: it's the nature of things
12:59 AM pfred1: power always attracts slime
01:00 AM roycroft: it's the presidential paradox
01:00 AM roycroft: anyone who is qualified to be president is smart enough not to want the job
01:00 AM pfred1: the people that want the job the most are the least qualified
01:00 AM roycroft: when we have a great president, either the person grows into the job (everyone does, to a degree, and i expect even trump will grow into it somewhat)
01:01 AM pfred1: that's why I didn't want to see Hitlary in office
01:01 AM roycroft: or the person runs for president out of a sense of duty not ambition
01:01 AM pfred1: she wanted it too badly
01:01 AM Wolf_: I don’t know about most despicable person ever to hold office, lot of them in senate and house...
01:01 AM roycroft: i could tolerate clinton better than trump
01:01 AM pfred1: Trump never held public ioffice before he shot straight to the top
01:01 AM roycroft: but they were both horrible candidates imo
01:02 AM roycroft: i voted for neither
01:02 AM pfred1: roycroft you don't know that you could tollare crooked clinton more
01:02 AM pfred1: she'd have us at war with Russia already
01:03 AM Wolf_: bet clinton would have had us in a ground war with russia by now
01:03 AM pfred1: yup
01:03 AM roycroft: i'd rather be at war with russia than be a puppet of russia
01:03 AM Wolf_: least that would boost the economy
01:03 AM pfred1: just to show everyone who wore the pants
01:03 AM MacGalempsy: how about more cnc talk?
01:03 AM roycroft: but i don't think she'd have us at war with russia right now
01:03 AM pfred1: she's an evil bitch
01:03 AM roycroft: one of my major objections is that she's too much of a hawk though
01:03 AM roycroft: those snap-on sets are discounted decently on ebay
01:04 AM roycroft: that might be the way to go
01:04 AM pfred1: you ever hear the tape of her cursing out a secret service dog handler?
01:04 AM roycroft: how do snap-on handle exchanges?
01:04 AM roycroft: do you just go to the snap-on truck and trade?
01:04 AM pfred1: roycroft ha ha yeah if yo ubought it from them
01:04 AM Wolf_: catch the truck
01:04 AM pfred1: snap-on got real bad with that
01:04 AM Wolf_: have they?
01:04 AM roycroft: but what if i bought it second-hand?
01:04 AM roycroft: how would they know?
01:05 AM pfred1: the dealers are honoring waranties with their regular customers
01:05 AM pfred1: they knowwho their customers are
01:05 AM MacGalempsy: ive heard they are pretty selective on returns
01:05 AM pfred1: they know what you owe them too
01:05 AM roycroft: so if i invest $30k in snap-on gear
01:05 AM roycroft: and then i move to another state
01:05 AM pfred1: you're boned
01:05 AM roycroft: i could be sol if i need to replace anythign?
01:05 AM pfred1: you could be
01:06 AM pfred1: I hear if you deal with the home office you might get someplace
01:06 AM roycroft: so they don't have a lifetime warranty
01:06 AM Wolf_: IMO part of the reason I would go with gearwrech, warranty is good, call them and they ship you a replacement
01:06 AM MacGalempsy: you might be able to mail them in to snapon
01:06 AM roycroft: they have a mercy of the dealer warranty
01:06 AM roycroft: i want to put my hands on the stuff first
01:06 AM roycroft: i don't know where gearwrench is sold around here
01:06 AM roycroft: i've never seen it
01:06 AM roycroft: but i have heard of it
01:06 AM pfred1: harbor freight is no questions asked
01:06 AM roycroft: it looks decent
01:06 AM MacGalempsy: i do know if you get them at the fleamarket and the tool ends with an x that is military and no warranty
01:07 AM roycroft: but until i hold the tool in my hand i don't know
01:07 AM Wolf_: fastenal, sears, some auto parts stores carry gearwrench
01:07 AM pfred1: heck they've sent me stuff without me returnign the broken crap
01:07 AM roycroft: harbor freight is the world's biggest tool lender
01:07 AM roycroft: you go in
01:07 AM roycroft: pay a deposit
01:07 AM roycroft: take the tool home
01:07 AM roycroft: abuse it
01:07 AM roycroft: break it
01:07 AM roycroft: take it back
01:07 AM roycroft: get your deposit back
01:07 AM Wolf_: you left out fix it to make it work
01:08 AM roycroft: that's only for stuff you keep
01:08 AM pfred1: watch the videos on youtube of people breaking harbor freight's swiven ratchet
01:08 AM pfred1: it's hilarious what peole do to that tool
01:09 AM roycroft: i've returned stuff to hf, but hardly anything
01:09 AM roycroft: only things that i thought would be suitable for a job and turned out not to be
01:09 AM pfred1: I've had bad luck with their electric tools
01:10 AM roycroft: i have this weird ethical sense that doesn't allow me to "borrow" things from them
01:10 AM pfred1: them I'd say avoid ike the plague
01:10 AM roycroft: and i have had good luck with some of their electrical stuff
01:10 AM pfred1: yeah like what?
01:10 AM pfred1: their angle grinders are OK
01:10 AM roycroft: i have a bunch of their $20 angle grinders
01:10 AM pfred1: yeah they'
01:11 AM pfred1: yeah they're da bomb
01:11 AM pfred1: but that's it
01:11 AM roycroft: i have one of their saws with the blades that spin both directions
01:11 AM pfred1: I have their professional 4.5 paddle switch angle grinder
01:11 AM roycroft: i can cut 0.120" steel plate like butter with the thing
01:11 AM Wolf_: speaking of saws and tools roycroft http://i.imgur.com/QxaLcVk.jpg
01:12 AM roycroft: i've seen that
01:12 AM roycroft: it has the new 9.0 battery
01:12 AM Wolf_: yup, just got one
01:12 AM pfred1: I have an old 4x6 bandsaw i bought off HF made in Taiwan so possibly a genuine ROng-Fu and it don't owe me a dime
01:13 AM roycroft: http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-75-amp-heavy-duty-double-cut-saw-62448.html
01:13 AM roycroft: that
01:13 AM roycroft: it works decently
01:13 AM roycroft: i got my 7x12 bandsaw at hf for $250
01:13 AM roycroft: the coolant tank and pump were missing, the vertical table was missing, and the motor shroud was cracked
01:13 AM roycroft: the saw works brilliantly
01:14 AM roycroft: i wore out the worm drive gear after a couple years
01:14 AM pfred1: roycroft I'll have to watch for it on sale though Idn't know what I'd do with it
01:14 AM roycroft: bought a replacement for the grizzly 7x12 (which is steel, not brass)
01:14 AM pfred1: know what electric power tool I got off HF last?
01:14 AM roycroft: and it's been fine ever since
01:14 AM roycroft: phred1: it's good for cutting plate freehand
01:14 AM roycroft: and yes, i bought it on sale
01:14 AM roycroft: and then used a 25% off coupon
01:15 AM roycroft: so i got it for like $24
01:15 AM roycroft: the grinders i use a lot
01:15 AM roycroft: the band saw i use a lot
01:15 AM roycroft: my other hf power tools i don't use that often, and don't push them very hard
01:15 AM pfred1: I got one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-oscillating-multi-tool-62867.html
01:16 AM roycroft: yesk i got one of those on sale too
01:16 AM roycroft: i very rarely use it
01:16 AM pfred1: it is handy for those how the hell am I going to do this jobs
01:16 AM roycroft: but it works ok
01:16 AM roycroft: and sure as hell beats spending $300 for a fein
01:16 AM roycroft: that i would barely ever use
01:16 AM Wolf_: I have the m12 version of that
01:16 AM roycroft: if i were going to use it every day i'm sure i'd burn up the hf one quickly
01:16 AM pfred1: though the blade changing on it does suck
01:16 AM Wolf_: and I have my dad’s $300 fein thats about to get listed on-line for sale
01:16 AM roycroft: but i'd get the fein
01:17 AM roycroft: since it sits in a toolbox about 360 days/year the hf one is great :)
01:17 AM pfred1: yeah I used it to cut a square hole in a plastic panel
01:17 AM pfred1: used it to cut this board up against a wall
01:18 AM Wolf_: I’m about to dump about 10 or so tools out of my shop, mostly all getting replaced with m18 Milwaukee stuff, the m12 oscillating works great for flush plunge cuts
01:18 AM pfred1: the variable speed feature is worthless i just run it full out
01:19 AM roycroft: i use mine so seldom i honestly don't remember if the variable speed works or not
01:19 AM pfred1: Wolf_ I still like corded tools for a lot of jobs
01:19 AM Wolf_: slower speed is nice for cutting in old work boxes in drywall
01:19 AM Wolf_: I don’t, but I’m usually working in old ass house with no outlets or out in my yard
01:19 AM pfred1: cordless is great but I still haven't seen a dordless tool with quite the power a tool plugged into the wall has
01:20 AM roycroft: wolf_ will be getting the milwaukee fuel 12x36 lathe with the 150.0 battery when it comes out :)
01:20 AM Wolf_: m18 brushless works nice :)
01:20 AM roycroft: actually, the milwaukee 18v fuel line has more power than their equivalent corded models
01:20 AM Wolf_: my 7 1/4 cordless framing saw works as good as my corded
01:20 AM roycroft: the porta-band especially
01:21 AM pfred1: this is my favorite Milwaukee drill http://i.imgur.com/r6ja1K3.jpg
01:21 AM pfred1: I got it for $15 at a yard sale
01:21 AM roycroft: i wish i had a hole hawg
01:21 AM roycroft: they go for $150 used here
01:21 AM Wolf_: the miter saw doesn’t spin up as fast as a corded but it also only weighs 35lbs
01:21 AM pfred1: I want a hole hawg too
01:21 AM roycroft: tools are way overpriced around here
01:21 AM roycroft: the one you have is pretty decent though
01:22 AM pfred1: I saw a used hole hawg at a flea market and it was beat to death so I passed on it
01:22 AM pfred1: yeah this one's clean
01:22 AM roycroft: i don't do framing/electrical work for a living any more
01:22 AM pfred1: runs like the day it was made
01:22 AM roycroft: i really can't cost justify a hole hawg
01:22 AM roycroft: unless i get it for $15
01:22 AM pfred1: if i can pick one up used for peanuts I'll get it
01:22 AM roycroft: but i won't
01:22 AM roycroft: and if i did
01:22 AM roycroft: i'd flip it
01:23 AM Wolf_: lol
01:23 AM roycroft: i have enough drills
01:23 AM pfred1: heck you just got to get out there and beat the bushes
01:23 AM pfred1: I picked up a porter cable jigsaw once for $5
01:23 AM pfred1: I got a left handed PC circ saw for $10 in the case
01:24 AM Wolf_: sometimes you get lucky, like my tool post grinder...
01:24 AM pfred1: it was missing the retention washer though
01:24 AM pfred1: but i made one
01:25 AM pfred1: I'm telling ya get out there early on Saturday
01:25 AM Wolf_: $3500 tool post grinder for $450, only missing the wheel dresser out of the box
01:25 AM pfred1: your target is 10 cents on the dollar of better
01:26 AM pfred1: once i got a foredom flex shaft tool with a whole organizer of bits for $20
01:26 AM roycroft: oh, sears sell that gearwrench stuff
01:26 AM pfred1: as I was leaving down the driveway the guy said you know what that ost? I said yeah that's why I bought it
01:26 AM roycroft: i'll go check them out there
01:27 AM roycroft: i think i paid $300 for my foredom
01:27 AM roycroft: but that's ok
01:27 AM pfred1: the box of bits was loaded wiht expensive tungsten carbide burs
01:27 AM roycroft: since i bought it i haven't burned out a single dremel
01:27 AM roycroft: so i've saved at least $300 in dremels
01:28 AM pfred1: I got a couple B&D RTX rotary tools
01:28 AM pfred1: they've held up better for me than Dremels
01:28 AM pfred1: plus i got them for ilke $10 a pop
01:28 AM roycroft: i just use the foredom for anything where i used to use a dremel
01:28 AM pfred1: ah the foredom is a bit slow
01:28 AM Wolf_: another score was a Milwaukee 5196 die grinder for $40
01:29 AM roycroft: you probably got the model i ahve
01:29 AM roycroft: which is 1/2 the speed of most of theirs
01:29 AM roycroft: but you can get a 2x handpiece for it
01:29 AM pfred1: finally got too many angle grinders to just leave them piled on my bench http://i.imgur.com/kp1z6OZ.jpg
01:30 AM Wolf_: lol
01:30 AM pfred1: hey I don't like changing attachments
01:30 AM Wolf_: my next thing is to see if I can turn a m18 fuel angle grinder in to a band file
01:30 AM pfred1: I got one of them someplace too
01:31 AM pfred1: th belts are a pain i the ass to keep up with
01:31 AM roycroft: that's why i bought a bunch of those hf grinders
01:31 AM pfred1: the kind of tool you get it use it then get tired of it
01:31 AM pfred1: I even got one of the mini pneumatic belt sanders
01:31 AM Wolf_: I run in to shit on the trucks all the time when I wish I had a band file
01:32 AM pfred1: I got a pile of hand belt sanders
01:32 AM roycroft: i use separate wire wheels for brass/copper, carbon steel, and stainless steel
01:32 AM roycroft: so i have a bunch of grinders
01:32 AM roycroft: knot wheel, cup wheel, grinding wheel
01:32 AM pfred1: gotta have a load of angle grinders
01:32 AM roycroft: for each type of metal
01:32 AM pfred1: I like the big ones too
01:33 AM pfred1: I've kiled so many 4.5s
01:33 AM Wolf_: 7” metal eraser
01:33 AM Wolf_: imo
01:33 AM pfred1: yeah I ain't god's gift to welding that's for sure
01:33 AM pfred1: some beads i lay got to go faster than I put them down
01:33 AM pfred1: that's when a 7/9 rocks
01:34 AM Wolf_: lol, only time I have been stuck grinding welds is when I had some kid that said that he was a cert welder working with me
01:34 AM pfred1: I just don't weld enough so I get out of practice plus I usually end up using soggy rods
01:35 AM Wolf_: first time I had ever seen someone bugger up mig welds so badly
01:35 AM pfred1: I think the rectifier may be blown in my welder now too?
01:35 AM pfred1: it doesn't seem to have the power in DC like it should
01:36 AM Wolf_: my tig box has some issues as well
01:36 AM pfred1: yeah that's what i have a miller econoTIG
01:36 AM Wolf_: really need to bother to figure out whats wrong with it, mine is a 200dx
01:36 AM pfred1: I got no gas so all I do is stick anymore
01:37 AM pfred1: TIG too slow anyways
01:37 AM Wolf_: mostly use the metal glue gun in my shop
01:38 AM pfred1: when I moved i never hooked up with a gas supply house here
01:38 AM pfred1: the closest one is like an hour away
01:38 AM pfred1: I shuold try to change my MIG over to flux core
01:38 AM Wolf_: one I use is a hour away, but they deliver on wed to my area :)
01:39 AM pfred1: well I got no tanks leased with thm or anything
01:39 AM roycroft: i own all my tanks
01:39 AM pfred1: I do too
01:39 AM roycroft: i don't like leasing
01:39 AM Wolf_: sad part is fills w/ delivery charge are still cheaper then the local store
01:39 AM pfred1: but none of them do me any good
01:39 AM roycroft: but if you own your tanks, when you change suppliers they always charge a recert fee on the first exchange
01:40 AM pfred1: because they're for a gas house 4 hours away
01:40 AM Wolf_: my 2 tanks are $72/2yr each
01:40 AM pfred1: meh now i just stick and it does what i need
01:41 AM MacGalempsy: hi Wolf_ how is the probe stuff coming along?
01:41 AM pfred1: I don't do autobody work like i used to
01:41 AM pfred1: here's my first welding love http://i.imgur.com/DqMDg.jpg
01:42 AM pfred1: that's like $1,300 worth of burn outfit right there
01:42 AM Wolf_: MacGalempsy: sitting on my desk, been cleaning shop for the last couple weeks
01:43 AM pfred1: I used to love my oxy-acetylene torches
01:43 AM MacGalempsy: wow. that must have been one dirty shop!
01:43 AM Wolf_: its a damn mess, the garage @ my parents house
01:44 AM MacGalempsy: how far from your place?
01:44 AM Wolf_: been sorting and cleaning up stuff, filled a 20yr dumpster half way up already
01:44 AM Wolf_: 30mins
01:45 AM pfred1: Wolf_ whatcha throwing out good?
01:45 AM Wolf_: nothing good going in the can lol
01:45 AM MacGalempsy: damn. thats a lot.
01:45 AM Wolf_: just shit that has me wondering why the hell my dad was holding on to it lol
01:46 AM pfred1: one man's trash is another man's treasure
01:46 AM pfred1: I got some of the best stuff i own out of the trash
01:47 AM Wolf_: right now have been working on getting rid of excess tools, 3 miter saws, 5 circular saws, fein kit, misc woodworking stuff I don’t need
01:47 AM pfred1: I got this toolbox out of the dumps http://i.imgur.com/19L7U.jpg
01:48 AM pfred1: gave it a coat of paint and it's like new
01:48 AM Wolf_: everything metal is in a pile next to the garage lol
01:53 AM Wolf_: I’ve seen things at the dump that almost made me cry… like a full working rotary punch press tosses in the metal pile
01:54 AM pfred1: where i lived we had a great town dumps
01:55 AM pfred1: I got this vise at the dumps http://i.imgur.com/ajCoh.jpg
01:55 AM pfred1: I made the stand for it though
01:56 AM pfred1: it's amazing what people would throw away there
01:57 AM roycroft: well, i'll go over to sears some day soon and see if they have gearwrench stuff
01:58 AM roycroft: that 20 piece set for $90 would be nice
01:58 AM pfred1: I think they have gearwrenh at home depot?
01:58 AM roycroft: home depot are going all husky and rigid
01:58 AM pfred1: oh
01:58 AM pfred1: I hardly ever buy tools new anymore
01:59 AM roycroft: they own both of those brands and are phasing out other hand tools
01:59 AM roycroft: and would probably phase out other brand power tools if they could get away with it
02:00 AM pfred1: the sad thing is I bought more Vise Grips after I took this picture http://i.imgur.com/tSO6pU2.jpg
02:00 AM Wolf_: lol
02:00 AM roycroft: i don't have that many vice grips
02:00 AM pfred1: when I see US made grips for liek a buck I can't say no
02:00 AM roycroft: but i have a dozen or so, not counting welding clamps
02:01 AM pfred1: because you can't buy US vise grips new anymore
02:01 AM Wolf_: I need to pick up the rest of my kennedy boxes this week…
02:01 AM Wolf_: should be fun to see whats in them
02:01 AM pfred1: I used to score kennedy toolboxes at the dumps too
02:02 AM Wolf_: $500 for 2 bottoms, one mid and one top box
02:02 AM Wolf_: full of hand tools/files/hammers
02:02 AM pfred1: that's where one of my 7 drawer kennedy boxes came from plus i have a nice kennedy hip and cantilever box too
02:03 AM pfred1: that's another thing people rave about at harbor freight is their tool boxes
02:03 AM Wolf_: for the $$ they are ok
02:03 AM pfred1: folks say they're real good
02:04 AM Longbow: Hello
02:05 AM Longbow: I have trouble to get a signal from a Heidenhain ROD 420 encoder
02:05 AM Longbow: It is supposed to be a quadrature TTL. But it gives out only 0.5Vpp
02:05 AM Longbow: Do I have to use some kind of converter maybe?
02:05 AM pfred1: I'd have trouble even saying Heidenhain
02:05 AM Longbow: :D
02:08 AM archivist: Longbow, it it open collector, if so needs a pull up resistor
02:09 AM Longbow: So that means that I can not wire it directly to Mesa 7i77 encoder?
02:09 AM pfred1: archivist how can you tell if it is open collector?
02:10 AM archivist: read the manual
02:10 AM pfred1: I was afraid you were going to say that
02:10 AM archivist: :)
02:10 AM archivist: sometimes there is enough info on the label
02:11 AM Longbow: Which manual did you read? :)
02:11 AM archivist: more than one :)
02:11 AM pfred1: I wonder if you can't just feed the signal through an op-amp and boost it?
02:11 AM archivist: not for open collector
02:11 AM Longbow: I need to wire a pull-up resistor to make it output 5v as TTL
02:12 AM Longbow: ?
02:12 AM pfred1: that should do it
02:12 AM archivist: and is the encoder differential wired A+ A-
02:13 AM Longbow: yes
02:13 AM Longbow: A; A-; B; B-; Z; Z-
02:13 AM Longbow: Using it with MESA 7i77 card
02:13 AM archivist: google the model number to see if it is open collector
02:14 AM Longbow: PDF: http://www.auto-met.com/heidenhain/08PDF/Rotary%20Encoders.pdf
02:14 AM Longbow: ctrl+f: ROD 420
02:15 AM Longbow: I see only TTL
02:20 AM archivist: page 40 has the levels and drive
02:22 AM Longbow: I am looking at page 40
02:22 AM Longbow: It should work as is, only the supply voltage is needed?
02:23 AM Longbow: Am I missing something?
02:23 AM archivist: solid ttl signal,anything else is an error, wiring,short etc
02:24 AM Longbow: Yes, it says square wave TTL signal. But I get a square wave signal of only 0.5vpp
02:26 AM archivist: you have an error in your wiring or measurring
02:27 AM Longbow: It is the factory wiring from Deckel.
02:27 AM Longbow: I am using a oscope to measure the output signal (high impedance)
02:28 AM Longbow: As soon as I connect the encoder to the 7i77 there is no more signal as if it were weak? I have 5v stable supply
02:28 AM archivist: I have seen faulty scope probes,, is the encoder faulty
02:29 AM Longbow: If it was an error with the wiring why it will output quadrature signal? It works as I turn the motor A B 90° shift etc. All well but very low signal
02:30 AM Longbow: I have a Tektronix scope and probes. no problem there
02:30 AM Longbow: And I have 5 of those encoders on this machine and every one has a low output
02:30 AM Deejay: moin
02:30 AM Longbow: maybe I need a RS422 to TTL converter?
02:31 AM archivist: not if they are TTL
02:31 AM Longbow: It says:
02:31 AM Longbow: Differential line driver as per EIA standard RS 422 U H ‡ 2.5 V at –I H = 20 mA U L † 0.5 V at I L = 20 mA
02:31 AM Longbow: on page 41 there is a diagram rs-422
02:35 AM Longbow: As I see it the RS-422 is in fact TTL?
02:38 AM archivist: page 40 clearly gives the voltage levels if you have the right model number
02:55 AM archivist: remember what is in common with the encoders, the power supply and your measurements
02:59 AM Longbow: I will retry later and see what can I do. Thank you for now!
03:01 AM archivist: accidentally leaving the variable gain on the scope turned down is something to catch you out for a while
03:08 AM MacGalempsy: anythink exciting in the uk today?
03:12 AM Longbow: @archivist: I misread the schematic and it is not the Heidenhain encoder wired BUT the Heidenhain LinearScale with 11uA output
03:12 AM Longbow: This machine uses only linear scales to move its axis. The encoders are for tool change + spindel speed.
03:13 AM Longbow: Is it possible to use this linear scale of 11uA to drive the axis? - without a rotary encoder?
03:13 AM archivist: they could be analogue
03:13 AM Longbow: yes 1vpp sin wave
03:14 AM Longbow: it is the LS403 model
03:15 AM archivist: might need a RS485 receiver
03:19 AM Longbow: What about IC Haus converter from Sin to TTL?
03:23 AM archivist: I think those are for resolvers
03:24 AM archivist: https://www.ichaus.de/iC-NV
03:28 AM Longbow: I see.
03:29 AM Longbow: You propose a RS485 converter?
03:31 AM Longbow: or heidenhain exe 935 converter from Sin to TTL?
03:53 AM archivist: dunno, never used those scales or converters
03:55 AM archivist: Longbow, PCW may know when he wakes up
04:13 AM Longbow: ok. I ll wait!
04:22 AM MacGalempsy: alright. The Big Lebowski. second time this week
04:27 AM pfred1: MacGalempsy you abide
04:28 AM MacGalempsy: Mark it zero dude
04:34 AM MacGalempsy: well...57 min until its over. i dont think they will drill until a little after the shift change :D
05:23 AM jthornton: morning
05:24 AM XXCoder: yo
05:31 AM XXCoder: hey twins
06:34 AM jthornton: coffee time\
06:34 AM XXCoder: yay drug time!
06:35 AM archivist: just been walk up the street and deliver post to right address time, useless stand in post girl
06:36 AM XXCoder: ?
06:37 AM jthornton: if it belongs to the neighbors I'll just go put it in their box if is another county road I just leave in my box with the flag up
06:39 AM archivist: there is no flag system here, no picking up from ordinary mortals
06:40 AM XXCoder: im impressed
06:40 AM XXCoder: mail pickups from immortals. wow
06:41 AM XXCoder: or extraordinary morals like president
07:52 AM Longbow: hello, someone did manage to use linear scales 11uA with mesa IO cards?
07:53 AM archivist: you mean sine wave
08:16 AM pcw_home: Longbow: you can but not directly, you need an interpolator (Heidenhain EXE box for example)
08:16 AM pcw_home: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HEIDENHAIN-EXE-602-E-SIGNAL-INTERFACE-MODULE-/171731287880?hash=item27fbfb7f48:g:9gQAAOSwrklVEXv7
08:31 AM gregcnc: this job would be fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fOyHERaWyE
08:39 AM Longbow: Yes Sin wave linear scale
08:43 AM nos_ is now known as nos
09:53 AM jym: Mornin folks
10:25 AM jym: If you toss a 40W 220V Edison bulb on 110V, is it just half as bright?
10:29 AM gonzo_: theoratically, if it were to be the same resistance (not the case) it would be 1/4 the power
10:29 AM gonzo_: as at half the voltage, it would be drawing half the current
10:29 AM gonzo_: so npower would be 1/4
10:30 AM gonzo_: but bulbs chnage their resistance with the temperature
10:31 AM gonzo_: also perception of brightness by the eye is probably not linear
10:31 AM jym: Sure, I get the heat thing, but not sure where you get 1/4 instead of 1/2?
10:32 AM gonzo_: power is V^2 / r
10:32 AM gonzo_: so it's a squared relationship
10:33 AM gonzo_: or think of power as being V x I
10:33 AM gonzo_: (I is current)
10:33 AM jym: 40W/220V=0.181 ohms, 40W/110V=0.363 ohms, apx doubled.
10:33 AM gonzo_: and current is V/R
10:34 AM gonzo_: probably a good starting point is that the resistance is fixed
10:34 AM archivist: because the voltage is low the resistance will not rise enough, so runs cool dies early
10:35 AM jym: archivist: How so? I would think just the opposite, lasts ionger
10:35 AM jym: oh, I get it
10:35 AM gonzo_: on a fixed resistance, current is proportional to voltage. HAlf the voltage you half the current
10:36 AM gonzo_: and 1/2 time 1/2 is 1/4
10:36 AM jym: And I fubared the resistance, it should have been I
10:36 AM jym: I need more coffee, lol
10:36 AM archivist: and bulbs are not fixed resistance at all
10:36 AM gregcnc: jym what are you trying to do?
10:37 AM gonzo_: archivist, agreed, but in terms of a simple lesson in power calculation, it was easier to assume so
10:37 AM jym: gregcnc: Found some neat 220V edison bulbs, but we're on 110V in the states
10:37 AM jym: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Retro-Style-Edison-Bulb-220V-Pendant-Lights-Squirrel-cage-Filament-Lighting-E27-Edison-Lamp-Incandescent-Bulbs/32615050248.html
10:38 AM gonzo_: they are nice, I have some. But supprised they are not avail in 110
10:38 AM gonzo_: you could have your own 220V lighting circuit in the house
10:38 AM jym: And I kinda like half power (20W), but not at the expensise of blowing ut early
10:38 AM jym: out*
10:39 AM gonzo_: though there are also edison style led filament ones avail. Not quite as good, but not bad
10:39 AM archivist: those are running quite cool anyway, may have more gas in them for that state
10:40 AM jym: gonzo_: Yeah, I'm aware of LED ones, but just not really the same thing =)
10:40 AM jym: Also seems the 110V are almost doubled in price.
10:40 AM gregcnc: led filament news to me, but they actually look decent
10:40 AM archivist: add a transformer
10:41 AM archivist: or run across phases for 220
10:41 AM gregcnc: just connect the white wire to the other leg
10:41 AM gregcnc: but seriously, don't to that
10:42 AM jym: haha
10:42 AM gregcnc: small transformer
10:42 AM jym: Well, the wiring in the US is split 220... one leg of 220 to neutral = 110V
10:43 AM gregcnc: jym, i'm in US, but one of the silly people who uses metric
10:43 AM archivist: we know
10:44 AM jym: gregcnc: I'm working on it, but it's been a road less traveled
10:44 AM archivist: but your wiring code probably says NO
10:44 AM gregcnc: my power is high again, machine switched off last night while I was trying to do a setup
10:46 AM gregcnc: it was normal all weekend, damn power co
10:47 AM archivist: faulty regulating transformer near you ?
10:50 AM jym: gregcnc: I had brown outs all night long (bad storm)
11:01 AM roycroft: you need to lock your weed up so your power can't get to it
11:08 AM jym: roycroft: LOL, wrong time of year for that =)
11:11 AM jym: roycroft: You know when it's harvest season when all the mini scissors on the shelves are sold out =)
11:17 AM roycroft: in my part of the world it rains every day of the year, so all the big grow operations are indoors
11:18 AM roycroft: every day is that time of year
11:18 AM jdh: pics?
11:39 AM jym: roycroft: Where you at, south america?
11:45 AM roycroft: oregon
11:46 AM jym: Ah, yeah. I think Seattle has more rain than you, no?
11:47 AM roycroft: no, actually it doesn't
11:47 AM roycroft: seattle is in a rain shadow formed by the olympic mountains
11:48 AM roycroft: it's actually one of the driest parts of the northwet, west of the cascades
11:48 AM jym: ah, I did not know that.
11:48 AM jym: Just heard there is a high suicide/depression in that area
11:48 AM roycroft: even though i'm an hour inland, our climate is dominated by the pacific ocean
11:48 AM jym: ...due to rain/wx
11:49 AM roycroft: prevailing winds are from the west year-round
11:49 AM roycroft: that sounds more like anchorage than seattle
11:49 AM gregcnc: 200USD BT30 spindles? www.ebay.com/itm/192017455947
11:50 AM jym: Well, Washington, not necessarily Seattle itself.
11:50 AM roycroft: i used to live in bellingham, up by the canadian border
11:50 AM roycroft: we got lots and lots of rain there - much more than here in uegene
11:50 AM roycroft: eugene
11:51 AM jym: roycroft: All I know is this rain sucks balls. HAd friends get their home flooded last week for the 3rd time in 6 years. 19" deep
11:52 AM jym: creek overflowed, F&G says you can't touch it, levy broke,
11:53 AM jym: Well, you can, if you get a $2000 permit and then you become 100% liable for EVERYTHING.
11:54 AM jym: Are damond crusted jigsaw blades good for cutting 3" holes in 55gal steel drums?
11:54 AM sync_: no
11:54 AM jym: just stonework?
11:55 AM Loetmichel_: jym: diamond crusted and steel?
11:55 AM Loetmichel_: no way
11:55 AM gregcnc: I used a carbide grit blade to cut a 1/2" tool holder that was hard as shit in the middle
11:55 AM Loetmichel_: they will burn up
11:55 AM sync_: yes jym
11:55 AM sync_: the problem is that diamond is soluble in steel
11:55 AM sync_: or rather carbon
11:55 AM jym: k
11:56 AM Loetmichel_: better get some bi-metal hole sawy
11:56 AM roycroft: the ground is really saturated here
11:56 AM Loetmichel_: you can try with carbide dust tipped ones tho
11:56 AM cradek: how about a cutting torch? angle grinder?
11:56 AM Loetmichel_: it should work better than diamond
11:56 AM cradek: a jigsaw just isn't the right tool
11:56 AM roycroft: we had 3cm of rain yesterday, and another 2cm forecast for today
11:57 AM jym: cradek: Did one with an angle grinder, that just was not pretty in the least, lol.
11:57 AM cradek: yeah I bet
11:57 AM jym: So far this year we've had 36" of rainfall
11:57 AM Loetmichel_: jym: get a plasma torch
11:57 AM cradek: have you tried an air powered nibbling tool?
11:57 AM Loetmichel_: best tool for the task
11:57 AM cradek: they're really amazing
11:58 AM cradek: something like this: http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/2000x2000/157/157794_2000x2000.jpg
11:59 AM cradek: bet there are electrics too
11:59 AM roycroft: or buy one from harbor freight
11:59 AM roycroft: which wil jam the first time you try to use it
11:59 AM cradek: heh yeah one per barrel
11:59 AM gregcnc: www.ebay.com/itm/like/131942279995
12:00 PM cradek: http://www.harborfreight.com/16-gauge-air-nibbler-96661.html
12:00 PM roycroft: yeah, that one will jam when you try to cut 22ga mild steel
12:00 PM gregcnc: heh the that's dirt cheap too
12:01 PM roycroft: it might work on aluminium for a few minutes
12:06 PM cradek: if you just buy 3, you could return them all in one trip
12:06 PM cradek: would save time
12:14 PM jdh: I bought a HF punch set. bolt sheared on last punch.
12:15 PM jdh: free replacement is still in box
12:16 PM R2E4_bevins: Does the encoder scale work with decimals? for example 5092.5?
12:19 PM archivist: scale is often set to a number with decimals in it to get things close
12:21 PM R2E4_bevins: ok, cause I dropped it .25 and didnt see a difference.
12:21 PM R2E4_bevins: 5092.25 to 5092 need 64th inch
12:22 PM R2E4_bevins: must be a calculation based on the scale.
12:24 PM archivist: resolution of your encoder is a limit
12:27 PM gregcnc: encoder counts? screw lead?
01:01 PM R2E4_bevins: I am using G64 P0.001 but the corners have a little curve in them like it is going past then comes back inline. this obviously not the G64 thing, How can I tell Linuxcnc to slow down before a corner?
01:11 PM pcw_home: R2E4_bevins: LinuxCNC's trajectory planner does slow down so that it does no violate acceleration constraints
01:11 PM pcw_home: if you have overshoot is more likely a mechanical or tuning issue
01:11 PM R2E4_bevins: ok
01:12 PM R2E4_bevins: ok, it is suppose to slow down to stay within the tolerence given in G64 correct?
01:12 PM andypugh: Yes
01:15 PM R2E4_bevins: max_acceleration, does that have an effect on decelleration?
01:18 PM sync_: it's the same thing just with a different sign
01:20 PM sync_: andypugh: since you are here and probably thought about that before, I'm wondering if I can abuse the cutter radius compensation to make grinding circular profiles with changing disc diameters possible
01:20 PM sync_: especially if one uses a continuous dresser
01:20 PM andypugh: sync_: I would imagine so.
01:20 PM andypugh: It’s not even really abuse.
01:21 PM sync_: as long as I can change the radius at runtime that would be ok, yeah
01:21 PM sync_: I guess that could require some work
01:22 PM andypugh: G41.1 should recalculate the path for you (I think it’s a queue-buster)
01:24 PM sync_: well, yeah, but when you run a cont dresser you need to do that while cutting
01:24 PM gregcnc: Sync_ what are you doing I want to grind cams doing something similar
01:24 PM sync_: to a previously unknown diameter possibly
01:24 PM sync_: gregcnc: yes, grinding cams is the goal
01:25 PM sync_: I have the math for the cutter contact point figured out but just using the radius compensation would be way easier
01:25 PM andypugh: sync_: How do you get the diameter into the system?
01:25 PM gregcnc: I was thinking that you could use G10 and some variables
01:26 PM sync_: that is to be determined, but you can calibrate the dresser axis at some point and then you get values
01:26 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6dK41_usfQ&t=4s ?
01:26 PM gregcnc: dress some increment, change tool table by said increment
01:28 PM sync_: gregcnc: well yes, but that is inefficient
01:28 PM sync_: and the dresser dresses all the time
01:28 PM sync_: ideally
01:29 PM gregcnc: I didn't realize they are continually dressed
01:30 PM sync_: it basically is a second grinding wheel that you press against the actual one and put a torque on the shaft
01:30 PM sync_: braking it
01:30 PM sync_: andypugh: yeah kind of, how would you feed in?
01:30 PM gregcnc: OK i know of wheel dressers, btu this is done in the process of cutting a part?
01:30 PM sync_: yes
01:30 PM sync_: otherwise the wheel would load up
01:31 PM sync_: as you are possibly removing quite a bit of material
01:31 PM andypugh: sync_: In that case, the offset is calculated by a HAL component that knows the tool diameter.
01:31 PM sync_: yeah that would work
01:31 PM sync_: hmm
01:35 PM gregcnc: sync- how are you generating cams?
01:38 PM sync_: currently I'm just looking at cloing some, but when I designed one I modelled the valvetrain and did dynamic simulations on it until I had jerk curves I liked
01:39 PM sync_: and that were below the maximum surface pressure that would kill it
01:40 PM gregcnc: OK, fairly involved, in CAD soft?
01:40 PM sync_: yes
02:19 PM insomnia is now known as zombieJesus
02:39 PM Jeebiss: Is it normal for my motors to whine a little when being held in certain positions?
02:41 PM gregcnc: servos can hunt a bit
02:45 PM R2E4_bevins: Anyone using inventor with 2.8? The post works with 2.5 but not with 2.8. Is it possible things changed that it wouldnt work in 2.8?
02:47 PM andypugh: R2E4_bevins: Yes.
02:48 PM andypugh: As in, yes I am using that combination. And it works.
02:48 PM andypugh: I assume you are talking abut Inventor CAM? That spits out G-code, and G-code hasn’t changed.
02:49 PM andypugh: So, the question is, “what has changed in your config”
02:49 PM andypugh: G64? G91.1?
02:49 PM R2E4_bevins: config for inventor or config for linuxCNC?
02:50 PM andypugh: Inventor likes to put in a g91.1. But the Inventor preview gets confused by that.
02:50 PM R2E4_bevins: because I have a mill running 2.5 and the same file works for it but doesnt work for 2.8
02:50 PM andypugh: How is the not-working manifested?
02:52 PM R2E4_bevins: "Radius to end of arc differs from radius to start"
02:53 PM andypugh: Are the differences enormous?
02:53 PM R2E4_bevins: rel_err=00.8331%
02:53 PM andypugh: Hmm, no.
02:53 PM R2E4_bevins: oops, err=99.8331
02:54 PM R2E4_bevins: abs?
02:54 PM andypugh: Sounds likke G91.1
02:54 PM R2E4_bevins: There is a G91.1 in there.
02:54 PM andypugh: But should there be?
02:54 PM R2E4_bevins: let me look up what it is...lol
02:56 PM R2E4_bevins: incremental distance mode for I,J and K
02:56 PM R2E4_bevins: Thats the post that decides that. Linuxcnc likes it, Linuxcnc 2.8 dont
02:56 PM R2E4_bevins: Lcnc 2.5 ok, LCNC 2.8 not ok.
02:59 PM andypugh: Nothing has actually changed there.
02:59 PM andypugh: Compare “active G-codes” between the two machines.
03:03 PM andypugh: Who’s that German chap on Youtube who scrapes and uses LinuxCNC?
03:05 PM R2E4_bevins: thats weird then if it works in 2.5 and not 2.8
03:05 PM andypugh: I think that it is almost certain that the two configs just have different active G-codes
03:07 PM R2E4_bevins: I am using the same file on both machines, so the Gcode should set it, unless you are talking default.... Is there a list of default Gcodes what the machine thinks is active?
03:08 PM cradek: where is the gcode?
03:08 PM R2E4_bevins: in the file.
03:09 PM cradek: I meant that I'd look at it if I had a url
03:09 PM cradek: scrolled back and didn't see one
03:12 PM R2E4_bevins: oh sorry
03:13 PM roycroft: a cnc scraper?
03:14 PM roycroft: that would be interesting
03:14 PM andypugh: I was looking for https://youtu.be/SJQtx80euGM?t=2m50s (I found it)
03:14 PM R2E4_bevins: http://pastebin.com/4d7vQ5Xs
03:15 PM cradek: which line is the error?
03:15 PM R2E4_bevins: error says Near line 20
03:16 PM cradek: and what's the full error text?
03:17 PM * Tom_L wonders why you're switching between G19 & G17
03:18 PM cradek: huh loads and runs for me
03:20 PM Tom_L: he must be cutting the corner of a pocket with the G19 active
03:21 PM cradek: yeah it's an entry move
03:21 PM Roguish: hey, anyone know if you can install Fusion360 on more than 1 computer?
03:21 PM Tom_L: no way to view it here
03:22 PM Tom_L: Roguish, i dunno but i did install student versions of acad and catia on multiple ones
03:22 PM cradek: Roguish: please don't ask how to circumvent autodesk bs here
03:22 PM cradek: R2E4_bevins: are you super sure this is the same file that gives you the error?
03:23 PM andypugh: Roguish: If you qualify for the free license, I can’t see why they would acre.
03:23 PM Roguish: cradek: : hey, i'm not try to circumvent anything. that's why i asked. i have also asked autodesk/fusion360 support and am waiting for a reply.
03:24 PM Roguish: andypugh. yes i have a 'free' license.
03:24 PM cradek: ok, I misunderstood, sorry
03:24 PM Roguish: no harm no foul. is ok
03:25 PM R2E4_bevins: yes
03:25 PM cradek: weird, works for me
03:25 PM cradek: still would like to know the full error message
03:25 PM andypugh: Roguish: I think that they allow multiple computers with the not-free version, so can’t see why free would be more restrictive.
03:26 PM andypugh: They let me have a free version of Inventor at home because I have a paid license at work, for example.
03:27 PM R2E4_bevins: Ill post the message
03:29 PM Roguish: just got my $100 thread mill. now gotta test it without busting it.
03:29 PM gregcnc: only one? that's braze
03:29 PM gregcnc: brave
03:30 PM andypugh: As far as I can tell they are trying to grab a huge market share by being generous, before turning evil: (last two panels: https://www.xkcd.com/792/ )
03:30 PM Roguish: yeah, thought about that. might order another just for insurance gonna practice
03:30 PM andypugh: Roguish: Have you read that little thing on f1-2000.co.uk about hos £100 M2 threadmill and the titanium conrods?
03:31 PM Roguish: no. have a link?
03:31 PM gregcnc: threadmilling is fun, hopefully the maker has some good info on feedrates and passes
03:31 PM andypugh: 15th panel down: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods
03:32 PM R2E4_bevins: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/32002-biesse-rover-346-retrofit?start=200
03:32 PM R2E4_bevins: thats the error
03:32 PM R2E4_bevins: cradek:
03:42 PM gregcnc: how is that possible when X is never near -25?
03:43 PM JT-Shop: R2E4_bevins: check the line before that arc in both programs to make sure your in the same starting point
03:44 PM cradek: ok it's saying one radius is .05 and the other is 30
03:45 PM cradek: the gcode you sent me does not do that
03:46 PM cradek: in the program you sent me, X is at 4.95 from the N55 line before this arc
03:47 PM cradek: I see tool length is applied at line N60. Do you have an X offset in your tool table on T1?
03:49 PM gregcnc: we were talking about x offsets the other day
03:50 PM MacGalempsy: afternoon gents
03:50 PM cradek: yes I can get the error if I add a T1 offset of X=29.9584
03:50 PM cradek: the error is absolutely correct and saved you from a crash or ruined workpiece
03:50 PM cradek: check all your tool offsets
03:51 PM gregcnc: the previous discussion was multiple spindles using x offsets in the table.
03:52 PM cradek: that's fine but the gcode is buggy in that situation
03:52 PM cradek: it positions XY, then loads the tool offset, then expects XY to not have moved
03:52 PM gregcnc: it needs a commanded x to get where it needs to be?
03:53 PM cradek: it needs to load the offset and then do all the positioning the offset might have affected
03:53 PM gregcnc: forcing the post to output all axis would work?
03:53 PM cradek: I'd rather fix the ordering but I'm no post programmer
03:54 PM cradek: I just read gcode :-)
03:54 PM gregcnc: right, post could be modified for that too
03:58 PM R2E4_bevins: no offset. Let me double check the file
04:01 PM R2E4_bevins: http://pastebin.com/d61GEVka
04:01 PM R2E4_bevins: Sure it is the right file.
04:03 PM JT-Shop: the offset might be in your tool table not the file
04:04 PM cradek: yes it's the tool table
04:04 PM cradek: check all your tool offsets
04:06 PM R2E4_bevins: wow, your absolutely right. There was an offset in the tool table. I dont know how it got there......
04:06 PM R2E4_bevins: it loads now. Thanks.
04:07 PM R2E4_bevins: I didnt put any of the offsets in yet. Only using one spindle for now, have a small job to get done.
04:07 PM gregcnc: you were the one talking about 3 spindle the other day?
04:07 PM R2E4_bevins: Why didnt it just use the offset? That means I wont be able to use the offset in the tool table?
04:08 PM gregcnc: read back a bit
04:08 PM R2E4_bevins: yes I have three spindles and plan on using th4e offsets but I havent implemented that yet.
04:08 PM gregcnc: the post will need some help, to do what you want
04:09 PM R2E4_bevins: oh, thats unfortunate....
04:09 PM gregcnc: minor changes
04:09 PM R2E4_bevins: thats the post in inventor.....
04:09 PM gregcnc: can be edited
04:10 PM R2E4_bevins: I have to check my post that I use in Aspire
04:10 PM R2E4_bevins: yeah ok, as long I as I know now...... Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.
04:11 PM andypugh: We have seen this before, haven’t we?
04:15 PM R2E4_bevins: so the gcode should have moved to the offset.
04:16 PM R2E4_bevins: Which isfthe tool was actually at that offset it would have moved it to the G54 0,0
04:16 PM R2E4_bevins: because there was and offset in both the X and Y
04:18 PM R2E4_bevins: Which is another story because I didnt knowing put it there.... I did however cut a job testing, and just moved the XY 2" to cut another to test it. At least I know what happened and will see if I can reproduce it.
04:20 PM enleth: soooo, I'm totally fed up with crappy availability of QC30 tooling and I'm going to have the bridgeport's spindle drilled through to install a power drawbar
04:20 PM enleth: just have to find a shop willing to do that for a reasonable price
04:21 PM Deejay: gn8
04:38 PM andypugh: enleth: How hard is it to make QC30>
04:38 PM andypugh: This is bayonet-style, not the notched-taper?
04:40 PM andypugh: Can’t you just modify BT / INT / CAT / ISO? They are all the same taper and dimensions
04:41 PM JT-Shop: https://www.maritool.com/BT30-Tool-Holders
04:41 PM enleth: andypugh: huge PITA and not all holders can be modified, the flange needs to be "just so" or it doesn't work or doesn't have a safe holding torque
04:42 PM andypugh: My mill was delivered at 30INT. I made a drawbar for BT30, then got a cheap job-lot of SK30 holders, shortend one dog, changed the pull-studs and now have 32 slightly hybrid toolholders.
04:43 PM enleth: andypugh: also, you can't really adapt the bigger holders out there, that don't really have a separate "flange" - their whole body is at full diameter, they just have two dog notches ground or milled into them
04:43 PM enleth: you'd have to turn a huge groove into the body, weakening it in the process
04:44 PM enleth: I don't even care what type of drawbar I end up with, there are adapters, I just want *a* drawbar
04:44 PM andypugh: Weakening it to be more weak than a QC30? Or exactly the same weak?
04:45 PM gregcnc: that's what I was thinking, but still a lot of turning in potenttially HARD matl
04:45 PM enleth: possibly weaker, because you just can't get QC30 above a certain tool diameter
04:45 PM enleth: precisely because the wall thickness below the flange would be too small
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I outfitted my quick switch 30 from flea bay
04:46 PM enleth: or sometimes you can, but it sticks out much more
04:46 PM enleth: because the part right by the flange is solid
04:46 PM andypugh: gregcnc: I have machined quite a few Chinese boring bar shanks to be other things. They are cheaper than I can buy the steel, and come with the taper already ground. Win.
04:47 PM enleth: JT-Shop: I noticed people sell hollow CNC spindles sometimes, but they're hard to get and expensive
04:47 PM enleth: and in the US, so I'd have to pay shipping for a 120cm long chunk of steel
04:47 PM JT-Shop: I've seen a Quick Switch spindle before on flea bay
04:47 PM andypugh: enleth: I made my own drawbar. I think it is actually the most reliable thing I have ever made. It’s been no trouble at all.
04:48 PM JT-Shop: ouch, you get over 4 lbs and it gets expensive
04:48 PM enleth: andypugh: and I'll probably make one too, it's not the drawbar that's the problem; it's the fact that my current spindle is solid
04:49 PM enleth: and I don't have a lathe long enough to drill it through myself
04:49 PM andypugh: Clamp a drill in a chuck on the table. Bear down on it. Replace with successively longer drills. Home made.
04:49 PM andypugh: (hole)
04:50 PM gregcnc: i'll buy beer and watch that
04:50 PM andypugh: enleth: How long? Where?
04:51 PM enleth: andypugh: still a high chance that buying drills that long will end up costing me more than having someone who already owns them do it, and I don't have any other use for such drills
04:51 PM gregcnc: a crazy looking tg100 QC30 holder http://www.jurassictools.com/store/product/30-international-tg100-collet-chuck-qc30-collet-holder-m12-drawbolt-thread-used
04:51 PM andypugh: enleth: My drawbar: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical-mill-lathe-project-log/109301-cnc.html
04:53 PM andypugh: In a strange coincidence, Jurassic tools randomly gave me a trade account today. No idea why, I have only bought one thing off of them, ever,
04:55 PM enleth: andypugh: I don't remember the exact length, but the spindle is about 30% longer than a normal (manual) bridgeport spindle and it's solid all the way through until maybe 3cm behind the end of the ISO30 taper, so that the threaded end of a holder has somewhere to go
04:55 PM roycroft: they want you to buy more stuff from them
04:56 PM enleth: which makes it, what, at least 80cm of steel to drill through?
04:56 PM enleth: something in that ballpark I think
04:59 PM enleth: andypugh: besides, old-fashioned job shops charge very little per hour in Poland, so I might be able to get it done below $100 without risking a botched job
04:59 PM * JT-Shop sees if he can make a couple of little cuts on the MIC-6 plate without messing it up
05:01 PM andypugh: driling 80CM is not trivial.
05:02 PM andypugh: Deep-hole boring nearly always rotates the work against a stationary drill.
05:03 PM andypugh: You are definitly looking for a shop that can so “gun drilling” (in Polish)
05:03 PM andypugh: That’s a process name, rather an actually driilling guns.
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: how about cylinder boring?
05:16 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Cylinder boring always has an existing through-hole and the length to diameter ratio is different.
05:17 PM enleth: andypugh: yep, I'm aware of that
05:18 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_drill
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsF2FRc8UIA I forgot about how they did these on Bridgeports
05:18 PM enleth: andypugh: actually if I'm not mistaken, there's a very thin line between gun drills and very long boring bars with a weirdo insert
05:19 PM enleth: I've seen some that were basically long boring bars in all but the fact that the shank is in contact with the walls of a hole being drilled
05:20 PM enleth: and the weirdo insert, that is
05:20 PM andypugh: Conveniently ignoring CaptHindsight’s example, engine cylinder boring is typically done with a through-bar supported at both ends.
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.carid.com/ic/darton-sleeves/items/rs4-500-1-8_6.jpg I recently had to bore some sleeves 4.5" dia x 10" long/deep
05:21 PM andypugh: Thta’s 2:1 length:dia. I imagine the hole in the spindle will be 20:1 or more
05:21 PM enleth: a lot more
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: what do they use in production? Custom machine as you describe or just a special bar supported at both ends on a mill?
05:22 PM enleth: it's supposed to be 13mm dia, AFAIR
05:22 PM andypugh: The bigger you can make it, the more space you will have for spring-washers.
05:23 PM andypugh: I got lucky, on the Harrison the bore is INT-30 collar width the wholw way through.
05:24 PM enleth: andypugh: I can put the washers outside the spindle, against the upper face
05:24 PM enleth: and can't really make the hole much wider - the upper multisplined part is rather thin anyway
05:25 PM enleth: approx. 13mm is what they drilled it to at the factory, for the units that were fitted with a drawbar
05:25 PM enleth: otherwise it's the exact same spindle cartridge
05:27 PM enleth: there's some space right behind the ISO taper socket, where the main bearing registers are, to bore it a bit wider and fit some sort of ejection mechanism, but that's maybe 15cm, if I remember correctly
05:28 PM andypugh: It’s a fun puzzle to take the disc-spring characterestic curves, and the force and travel you need, plus the options of parallel-serial springs to decide on a combination that works. You might find this helps: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_JIG00w1hZ_2KD9WWh3XonWUI20ZkZ1S3nBAszeeYqw/edit#gid=328199094
05:28 PM andypugh: Or maybe not, the useful graphs seem to have disappeared
05:29 PM enleth: I'm not even sure I need those springs at all
05:29 PM andypugh: You need _some_ springs?
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: know a source for the high speed pneumatic valve springs? Like the ones used in F1 engines?
05:31 PM andypugh: No. But you could make them
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: yeah if I had the time, like most things :)
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: chip pic of the day http://image.superchevy.com/f/36411675+w640+h426+q80+re0+cr1+ar0+st0/camp_1104_13_o%2bdarton_engine_sleeves%2b.jpg
05:35 PM MacGalempsy: looks cool
05:36 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: F1-2000 giuy has made his own pnuematic valves, but not updated the site to cover that. Though his tiny spark-plugs are cool: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=ignition_system
05:36 PM enleth: andypugh: the drawbar itself can be made spring-less if the actuating mechanism has a spring in it
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.old-picture.com/american-legacy/012/pictures/Manufacturing-Barrel-Gun.jpg
05:37 PM JT-Shop: well that op came out correct... sure nervous cutting on an expensive chunk of MIC-6
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=ignition_system - the sort of project I wish had a patreon link
05:38 PM andypugh: In his case I don;t have the impression that money is a limiting factor in his projects.
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
05:39 PM andypugh: enleth: But then you need a pull-bearing, and that adds load to the spindle bearing. Self-contained does seem to be the norm.
05:40 PM andypugh: SpeedEvil: Have you seen his house? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mbqOE8Y-0Q&t=340s (and the car)
05:42 PM SpeedEvil: ah
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: need one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaoM4JEIzAk
05:43 PM enleth: andypugh: what about a long nut on the upper end? first the whole thing turns to screw into the toolholder, then the drawbar stops rotating and the nut advances agains the top face of the spindle
05:43 PM enleth: *against
05:47 PM enleth: on a second though, that doesn't even need a spring in the actuator, just a properly dimensioned deep socket wrench
05:47 PM andypugh: At that point you might as well use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8CKZCZWwOI
05:47 PM enleth: seen it, obviously I am going to use some sort of air wrench in there
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: nice boring bar on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFtqEeqNNiY
05:48 PM andypugh: Isn’t that more of a U-drill?
05:50 PM andypugh: I don’t think I could use that, the neighbours would moan about the noise.
05:52 PM Tom_L: you worry about the neighbors?
05:52 PM andypugh: A bit
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: get a barking dog, then when you machine they will be happy that they can't hear the dog
05:53 PM Tom_L: heh
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: I can't get away from barking dogs. the people next door bring their mutt to work now
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: time to bring back the ultrasonic noise maker
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: bark activated
05:55 PM roycroft: i don't mind dogs per se, but i dislike the seemingly 90+% of dog owners who impose their dogs on other people
05:55 PM roycroft: they are worse than parents of infants who think it's ok to let them scream and throw tantrums in public places
05:55 PM roycroft: well, maybe not worse, but more numerous
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: I was at a place where the dogs owner thought that it was funny that his dogs would nose you in the crotch
05:57 PM Tom_L: knee him in the nuts and laugh at him
05:57 PM JT-Shop: around here if your dog annoys the neighbor the dog never comes home
05:57 PM * JT-Shop wonders how MIC-6 is to tap?
05:58 PM Tom_L: anealed it probably sucks
06:00 PM andypugh: Given what it is meant for (jigs and fixtures) it ought to tap well.
06:00 PM Tom_L: 65 brinell hardness
06:00 PM Tom_L: http://www.clintonaluminum.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/CTJ-Comparison-Sheet.pdf
06:01 PM JT-Shop: looks like MIC-6 is not as good as the other ones I've never heard of
06:03 PM Tom_L: 7000 series aluminum, shouldn't be too bad
06:05 PM Tom_L: ever try making a dual boot using easybcd?
06:06 PM JT-Shop: I think I'll go for 65% thread like I do with 7075 if you try 75% you break the tap
06:06 PM JT-Shop: no
06:06 PM andypugh: I have used it a fair bit, not done anything clever, drilled at nominal-pitch.
06:07 PM JT-Shop: if I break off a tap in the plate I'm screwed lol
06:08 PM andypugh: You can dissolve it out, according to Youtube, with Alum. Though I can see that you would prefer not to.
06:10 PM JT-Shop: yea, I prefer not to have to resort to that
06:11 PM archivist: or spark erode it out
06:11 PM JT-Shop: I could take the plate over to my buddy about 30 miles from here and get it edmed out
06:12 PM JT-Shop: best to not have to do that
06:15 PM zombieJesus is now known as insomnia
07:40 PM chopper79: howdy all.....
07:40 PM chopper79: I now have a 99.5% functioning ATC using CL.
07:42 PM chopper79: One issue is still hanging around and that is when T1 is called carousel goes to pocket 1 but then if I call any other pocket it is off by 1 pocket count (tool 9 = pocket 8) using the carousel component. Any clues on what it is?
07:43 PM chopper79: When monitoring the hal pins tool 9 shows up as toll called and it says it is on pocket 9 but the pocket to use ends up being 8.
07:57 PM MacGalempsy: no idea. chopper are you usong the 7i92?
07:59 PM Tom_L: damn, finally got dual boot working
08:00 PM MacGalempsy: nice work
08:00 PM Tom_L: web wasn't alot of help
08:01 PM MacGalempsy: when is it?
08:01 PM Tom_L: i can usually find what i need
08:03 PM MacGalempsy: does anyone see performance difference between the 5i25 and the ethernet based equiv?
08:04 PM MacGalempsy: 7i92?
08:04 PM Tom_L: in theory the buss is gonna be faster
08:05 PM MacGalempsy: ok. looking to put together a new test rig
08:06 PM MacGalempsy: been thinking about a touchscreen with vesa mounted j1900n
08:07 PM MacGalempsy: pcw_home do you have any info about performance diffs?
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Mige-130N-series-1-0KW-best_60394196285.html
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: 1kw ac servo motor for <$200
08:15 PM chopper79: Mac: yes I am using the 7i92
08:15 PM chopper79: sorry for the delay.... beer run
08:16 PM chopper79: Tried to go tp pocket 2 and the carousel did not move it stayed on pocket on and called it pocket 2...haha. Crazy
08:17 PM chopper79: *pocket one
08:17 PM MacGalempsy: sounds like the beer run was premature ;)
08:17 PM chopper79: nope just making sure the fridge is stocked
08:17 PM chopper79: do not like to run out when a beer is called for
08:18 PM chopper79: oh... I now get your comment. Sorry, I do not catch humor to quickly.
08:22 PM MacGalempsy: np. its slow here again.
08:23 PM chopper79: I am figuring that when pocket one is called and the carousel rotates to that pocket the index switch is hit and resets the component to #1 This seem to be true by looking at the hal pin when on pocket #1. The prox switch is the counting switch and does count the pocket each time one is moved. The carousel is not moving off the first pocket.
08:25 PM chopper79: hmmm.... makes me wonder if there is another issue such as when pocket #1 is in position the index switch is contacted and the prox switch is seeing that pocket and causing some weird miss count since they are both true on pocket #1? Gonna try and invert one of switches and see what happens.
08:26 PM chopper79: not switches but signal
08:30 PM os1r1s: Tom_L Do you know if deep groove bearings are the same/equivalent to thrust bearings?
08:30 PM Tom_L: they aren't
08:31 PM Tom_L: but will take more load than regular ones
08:31 PM os1r1s: Ugg
08:31 PM chopper79: Time for a beer now!!!!! Inverted the prox switch signal and pocket to pocket now issues. :)
08:31 PM chopper79: *no
08:31 PM os1r1s: Tom_L Any idea where I would get a 12x28xx thrust bearing?
08:31 PM os1r1s: 12x28x8
08:32 PM Tom_L: vxb
08:32 PM os1r1s: Like this ... 7001B Bearing 12x28x8 Angular Contact Ball Bearings VXB Brand
08:32 PM R2E4_bevins: Chopper: Did you look at skunkworks configs? Doesnt he have the same machine and upgraded with same cards and he is using the same carasel component?
08:34 PM chopper79: Same machine different cards. I got it fixed now. Inverted the prox signal and no issues at all.
08:34 PM chopper79: CL is fun to work with also
08:34 PM chopper79: now that I got the hang of it more.
08:34 PM Tom_L: http://www.vxb.com/Thrust-Bearing-Online-s/209.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=209&show=15&page=1&f-28mm=631
08:34 PM R2E4_bevins: I go to CL before HAL....lol
08:35 PM os1r1s: Tom_L Sorry, I said thrust bearing, but I meant angular contact bearing
08:35 PM Tom_L: what's wrong with the one you linked?
08:35 PM os1r1s: Only thing is it isn't sealed
08:36 PM chopper79: R2E4_bevins: I am going to start using it more and more now that I am getting more familiar with it. I will use hal when I have to but doing thinsa like tool change or other misc I will go to CL.
08:36 PM os1r1s: I've got ones off my machine where one side is blue and one side is black. And I don't know if those are really angular contact bearings or they are deep groove
08:37 PM Tom_L: they should have MFG name and number on the side
08:39 PM os1r1s: I'll have to break out a magnifying glass :)
08:45 PM gregcnc: capthindsight looking for a gun drill? https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/hvd/6013741925.html
08:47 PM enleth: http://imgur.com/gallery/colD1 - modeled the Bridgeport spindle - then decided to render it just for the heck of it
08:53 PM gregcnc: you took the psindle out or you have a rpint?
08:53 PM MacGalempsy: does the 7i84 work directly with the 7i92?
08:54 PM Tom_L: 7i92 has differential io?
08:54 PM Tom_L: rs whatever it's called...
08:54 PM Tom_L: 422?
08:54 PM Tom_L: if it does, it should work
08:54 PM MacGalempsy: yeah
08:55 PM Tom_L: i've got one i'm not using right now
08:55 PM enleth: actually, new link: http://imgur.com/a/o2u42
08:55 PM Tom_L: that's the sserial multi io card right?
08:55 PM MacGalempsy: the description says 7i74 thru 7i78 and 7i85
08:55 PM MacGalempsy: was wondering if it is oversight
08:56 PM enleth: gregcnc: took it out some time ago and made notes, I'm at home now so the dimensions are probably not entirely accurate, but sufficient for design work
08:56 PM Tom_L: unless there's something about it i don't know of
08:56 PM enleth: gregcnc: I can fix them later, F360 will handle that
08:56 PM Tom_L: sserial should work on the rs422? io
08:56 PM gregcnc: you think you can find someone to drill it?
08:57 PM MacGalempsy: was wondering if it would work with a ethernet switch. just get like a 4 port instead of using the db25
08:58 PM Tom_L: don't follow you
08:58 PM MacGalempsy: the 7i76e looks like a better setup
08:58 PM enleth: gregcnc: we'll see
08:58 PM Tom_L: i'd ask pcw about the pro's and con's
08:59 PM enleth: gregcnc: it's actually shorter than I remembered it, I realized that after I found my notes
08:59 PM MacGalempsy: right now im using a 5i25 7i77 and 7i84. but looking to use the ethernet out of the j1900nd3v so i can use a vesa mount case and a touchscreen
08:59 PM Tom_L: i can't imagine how long this would take moving all these files if these weren't ssd
09:00 PM enleth: gregcnc: 48cm to drill through
09:00 PM gregcnc: lathe http://imgur.com/a/CcAT9
09:00 PM MacGalempsy: kind of a portable test rig for when im out working
09:01 PM gregcnc: enleth just make sure it's someone who regularly does that sort of drilling
09:02 PM roycroft: how big is the bore you need, enleth?
09:03 PM enleth: roycroft: 13mm is the factory bore on the hollow version, as far as I know
09:03 PM roycroft: oh, pretty small
09:03 PM roycroft: long bores are best finished with a boring bar
09:03 PM roycroft: but you will have a hard time finding one that small
09:03 PM roycroft: and if you did, it would not be terribly rigid
09:04 PM enleth: I couldn't give two shits about surface finish or diameter accuracy, especially in the upper part, as long as it's coaxial it's fine
09:04 PM enleth: it's just a clearance hole for the drawbar
09:05 PM roycroft: oh, so you could make it a bit oversize
09:05 PM roycroft: to make sure there's clearance
09:05 PM enleth: it's already oversized for clearance
09:05 PM enleth: and the splined part at the top is 26mm in diameter, not much more to take
09:06 PM gregcnc: so ONLY 36 diameters deep
09:06 PM roycroft: it's going to be difficult to make it perfectly coaxial, but that's what making it oversize is about
09:06 PM enleth: splined, so the material is actually half as thick between the splines
09:08 PM enleth: I don't have exact spline measurements with me now so I modeled the spline shape and ratios based on photos and memory, but it has to be pretty close
09:09 PM enleth: and the way it is modeled now, less than 4mm of wall thickness would be left between splines
09:09 PM BeachBumPete: Jeez man every time I try to machine a new prototype I can never seem to get thru the first part without any mistakes it seems lately LOL
09:10 PM gregcnc: well there is the option of drilling from both end and hope they meet
09:10 PM enleth: oh, and the spindle pulls out with the main bearings on, and I'm definitely not taking them off - but that could actually make the job easier
09:10 PM enleth: they should fit in a steady rest nicely
09:11 PM roycroft: the meeting at promontory point worked out pretty well, and that was back in the olden days!
09:11 PM enleth: actually
09:11 PM enleth: R2E4_bevins: are you there?
09:12 PM roycroft: if you drill from both ends and the bores meet, will you install a golden set screw?
09:12 PM enleth: R2E4_bevins: I recall that you either had a CNC Bridgeport with a hollow spindle or knew someone who had one
09:13 PM maddogma: Here's a head scratcher: Using the manual control in Axis, I can turn on the spindle CCW, but not CW. On the MDI, I can issue an M3 or M4 and the spindle works fine. Any ideas?
09:13 PM enleth: R2E4_bevins: if you actually do, can you take a measurement of the through hole diameter at a convenient time and let me know what it is?
09:16 PM enleth: roycroft: I'm actually wondering what the best strategy is to prevent a drill from wandering off center and exiting through the side (or coming close to do that)
09:17 PM enleth: roycroft: the smaller drill you use, the more flexible and prone to going off course it is
09:17 PM enleth: but you have more material left to bore the hole true with another, more reliable tool
09:17 PM enleth: OTOH, the bigger the drill, the less likely it is to wander
09:18 PM enleth: but it leaves less material to correct any problems
09:18 PM pink_vampire: helllo
09:20 PM enleth: so you want the biggest drill that will stay within the boundaries of the final bore along its whole length
09:20 PM gregcnc: drill short depth slightly undersize, bore to your drill size then drill. good drills are going to be the key
09:20 PM enleth: gregcnc: good point
09:20 PM enleth: it's harder for the drill to wander off course if it's being guided
09:20 PM gregcnc: boring places the drill on center which is half the battle
09:21 PM gregcnc: check you tailstock for square in both planes
09:24 PM pink_vampire: is there a way to identify if I have an aluminum 6061 or 6061-T6?
09:24 PM MacGalempsy: the t6?
09:24 PM MacGalempsy: :p
09:24 PM gregcnc: essentially all 6061 IS T6
09:24 PM gregcnc: you'd have to try hard to find any that's soft
09:25 PM pink_vampire: the bar says 6061
09:30 PM pink_vampire: it
09:31 PM pink_vampire: it's says 6061-T6511
09:32 PM pink_vampire: gregcnc: ^
09:33 PM pink_vampire: MacGalempsy: ^
09:33 PM gregcnc: didn't you get a cert for the material to know exactly what you're buying?
09:34 PM MacGalempsy: pink what are you worried about?
09:34 PM MacGalempsy: perhaps a density test?
09:34 PM gregcnc: T6 and T651 or T6511 is basically the same, has somethign to do with cross section size, above x, you get T651
09:36 PM pink_vampire: I got a bar for (almost) free 2"X3" 4f
09:36 PM pink_vampire: '
09:36 PM pink_vampire: length
09:36 PM pink_vampire: and I'm trying to find out what I got.
09:37 PM gregcnc: so you buy frankenmetal and ask on a forum what you bought?
09:37 PM pink_vampire: mmm yeah..
09:38 PM gregcnc: I determine what material I need for the application and buy exactly that
09:38 PM pink_vampire: it cost me 5$
09:38 PM gregcnc: or if i doesn't matter..... scrapbinium
09:38 PM gregcnc: or ebayium
09:39 PM malcom2073: gotta love scrapbinium, though like pink is running into, it's often not labeled if you wanna get it well below scrap price
09:39 PM MacGalempsy: $5 is too cheap, you better sell it to me for 100% profit
09:40 PM gregcnc: pink it's just the same as any common 6061-T6 unless it's from china, then it could be really gummy
09:41 PM pink_vampire: it's says american something (not readable)
09:41 PM gregcnc: $0.17/Lb is free
09:41 PM gregcnc: then starting making stuff
09:42 PM MacGalempsy: yep. cut to small chunks and get that mill making chips
09:42 PM pink_vampire: this is what I'm trying to do now
09:43 PM pink_vampire: to lift it to the power hack saw
09:43 PM pink_vampire: this is soooooo heavy!!! O_O
09:43 PM Wolf_: can’t be that bad...
09:44 PM pink_vampire: I'm 98lbs
09:46 PM pink_vampire: and that thing is almost 12KG!!
09:46 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: ^^
09:46 PM pink_vampire: 26lbs
09:46 PM Wolf_: thats only 28 lbs
09:47 PM pink_vampire: too heavy for me :(
09:47 PM Wolf_: 12.734kg…
09:47 PM Wolf_: thats 1/3rd lighter then the surface plate on my bench
09:48 PM Wolf_: now the surface plate that is sitting on my shop floor on the other hand, thats a heavy pig, I can’t lift the thing directly off the floor, can only tip it up
09:48 PM pink_vampire: how much is the surface plate?
09:49 PM Wolf_: about 280lbs
09:49 PM pink_vampire: WOWWWOW
09:49 PM Wolf_: small one is around 90lbs
09:49 PM pink_vampire: who did you move ir?
09:49 PM SpeedEvil: http://imgur.com/gallery/RT7mHg2
09:50 PM Wolf_: had help getting it in the car, to get it out I slid it out on to a handtruck
09:57 PM Wolf_: I find it amusing that pink_vampire weighs almost the same as my 18
09:58 PM Wolf_: x12x4” surface plate
09:58 PM malcom2073: I helped a buddy of mine pick up a 4x8ft "assembly table", 2" steel plate
09:59 PM malcom2073: By helped, I mean drove a trailer heh. It weighed only 4000lbs
09:59 PM SpeedEvil: Wolf_: she is probably not made of granite though
09:59 PM Wolf_: I would hope not lol
09:59 PM Wolf_: lol malcom2073
10:00 PM Wolf_: funny was me trying to move the big surface plate, I rolled it off the hand truck by accident
10:00 PM Wolf_: that sucked
10:00 PM pink_vampire: it's on the power hacksaw and I'm going to cut 14" from it
10:00 PM pink_vampire: and then to cut that section to smaller sections
10:05 PM MacGalempsy: dang it seems the price of the j1900n d3v went up in price
10:07 PM pink_vampire: MacGalempsy: why do you want the J1900?
10:07 PM MacGalempsy: because it is mini itx and it has a pci slot
10:08 PM Wolf_: they run lcnc pretty good
10:08 PM MacGalempsy: mostly because the one on my mill works
10:08 PM MacGalempsy: i swear the last one was like 150 now they are like 30p
10:08 PM MacGalempsy: 300
10:09 PM MacGalempsy: new egg is out but they are only 90 therr
10:10 PM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/HjKJRxZ.png
10:10 PM Wolf_: nice pink
10:11 PM pink_vampire: thanks :kiss:
10:15 PM Wolf_: =D
10:18 PM MacGalempsy: looks fun. what are you making?
10:23 PM pink_vampire: just slice the material to smaller sections
10:24 PM Wolf_: I need to start designing the next project I stuck in my head right now
10:24 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_:
10:26 PM Wolf_: ^.^
10:26 PM MacGalempsy: its all about the gridded notebook
10:27 PM Wolf_: lol yeah I have a few of those
10:27 PM pink_vampire: I'm taking pics from the next project
10:27 PM MacGalempsy: mini-box.com has the d3v
10:27 PM Wolf_: its not quite ready for paper yet, i’m on v3 already
10:27 PM MacGalempsy: heh. when does it qualify for paper?
10:28 PM Wolf_: when I start running out of changes every time I think about it lol
10:28 PM Wolf_: funny part is its a simple thing, just a brass catcher for shooting
10:29 PM pink_vampire: my next project http://i.imgur.com/q9sO6aI.png
10:29 PM Wolf_: making a box? :D
10:30 PM pink_vampire: no..
10:30 PM pink_vampire: to make something that use that stuff that is in the box
10:30 PM pink_vampire: http://i.imgur.com/aitqObj.png
10:30 PM pink_vampire: the*
10:31 PM Wolf_: nice, that off ebay?
10:31 PM pink_vampire: correct
10:31 PM Wolf_: I think I looked at that set lol
10:31 PM pink_vampire: it was 100
10:33 PM Wolf_: cool
10:33 PM Wolf_: I remember it because of that broken ball lol
10:33 PM pink_vampire: what broken ball???????
10:34 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: all the tips are grate!
10:35 PM Wolf_: oh, is that a disk tip?
10:35 PM pink_vampire: correct
10:36 PM Wolf_: I’ve seen some abused renishaw stuff, I thought it was a broken on lol
10:36 PM Wolf_: on/one
10:37 PM pink_vampire: there is 2 2mm, 2 3mm, 1 0.53mm, 1 8mm, small disc, large disc, sharp point, star.
10:39 PM Wolf_: cool
10:40 PM Wolf_: I’m pretty much stalled until I get my x2 mill running
10:41 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: BUT The most important part is that one that also came with the set https://www.renishaw.com/shop/Product.aspx?Product=A-5000-7534
10:42 PM Wolf_: nice
10:44 PM pink_vampire: I just figure out how to use it correct
10:48 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: http://i.imgur.com/AJYdB6A.png
10:48 PM Wolf_: that I don’t know how to do lol
10:48 PM Wolf_: lol
10:48 PM pink_vampire: why lol?
10:49 PM Wolf_: I mean, that angle stylus attachment
10:49 PM pink_vampire: no..
10:50 PM pink_vampire: I think it's a necklace adapter
10:50 PM Wolf_: thats what I was lol ing at
10:52 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: after all, ruby in that level of quality must to be use as a jewelry
10:52 PM Wolf_: ruby necklace for cnc geeks
10:54 PM pink_vampire: I love the fact that I can change the pendant of necklace. the 8mm ball is soo nice!
10:55 PM Wolf_: hehe nice
10:57 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: now to the real project https://qmarkmfg.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ad.jpg
10:58 PM Wolf_: lol
10:58 PM pink_vampire: lol again?!
10:58 PM Wolf_: looks doable :D
10:59 PM pink_vampire: it is looks about 20mm ruby ball.
10:59 PM pink_vampire: with carbon fiber seam
10:59 PM pink_vampire: and stainless steel heel adapter.
11:00 PM Wolf_: yup
11:00 PM pink_vampire: so how much is for 2 tips like that?
11:01 PM Wolf_: I just wonder how well a ruby ball would hold up walking on
11:01 PM pink_vampire: the ruby tip is nice, but the ceramic tip look more elegant.
11:01 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: YOU DONT!
11:02 PM Wolf_: well, how do you mount the shoe on the CMM =P
11:02 PM pink_vampire: only on a red carpet.
11:03 PM pink_vampire: lets see... I'm 98 lbs.. small feet..
11:03 PM pink_vampire: I think i'm taking it to a wrong direction.
11:04 PM pink_vampire: also red carpet is a wrong idea, the ruby will blend on it.
11:05 PM Wolf_: stainless steel ball tip
11:05 PM pink_vampire: it will get scratch
11:06 PM Wolf_: tungsten ball then?
11:06 PM pink_vampire: carbide or silicon carbide
11:14 PM Wolf_: I still think stainless would be fine for red carpet :P
11:20 PM pink_vampire: Wolf_: so now I just need to find out why I need to be on a red carpet
11:20 PM chopper79: woot!!! Ran my first program on the mill and it included a tool change!! So happy to have this CL finished to handle the ATC.
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: chopper79: are you a CL master now? :)
11:22 PM Wolf_: pink_vampire: yeah, that would probably be a good step
11:22 PM CaptHindsight: chopper79: feel free to add any missing info to the wiki or docs about CL
11:23 PM pink_vampire: CaptHindsight: http://i.imgur.com/AJYdB6A.png
11:23 PM pink_vampire: chopper79: what is a CL?
11:23 PM Wolf_: classic ladder
11:24 PM pink_vampire: and that mean?
11:26 PM Wolf_: PLC- Ladder logic
11:26 PM Wolf_: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadder
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.fargocontrols.com/miniatureinductive.html#3mm who makes a low cost version of these?
11:31 PM pcw_mesa_ is now known as pcw_mesa
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.fargocontrols.com/pdf/sensors/miniatureinductive.pdf
11:32 PM pink_vampire: CaptHindsight: I think you can find stuff like that on ebay
11:33 PM pink_vampire: CaptHindsight: you mean to something like that? http://www.ebay.com/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z-AX-Cylindrical-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Switch-NPN-NC-DC6-36V-300mA-/252672846596?hash=item3ad479ab04:g:ejUAAOSwWnFV9kAb
11:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Inductive_Proximity_Sensors_-z-_Proximity_Switches/3mm_Round_Industrial_Automation/Extended_Sensing_(3mm)
11:37 PM Wolf_: that size + cheap doesn’t seem to be
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: looks like Omron ~$25
11:39 PM pink_vampire: CaptHindsight: try SICK
11:40 PM pink_vampire: what blade I need to use on my power hacksaw for aluminum?
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: nope, 12mm
11:41 PM pink_vampire: the cobalt steel blade that I have now work grate on steel, but it is very slow on aluminum
11:41 PM Wolf_: need more chip clearing for alum (i think)
11:43 PM Wolf_: I usually just use my wood saws for aluminum
11:44 PM CaptHindsight: does Automation Direct ship the same day if you order by noon or?
11:46 PM Wolf_: no idea here...
11:47 PM pink_vampire: I got from them something and the shipping was ok
11:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://granitedevices.com/store/motioncontrol/ioniseries/ionidrives.html wasn't someone from Granite Devices in the channel late last year?
11:54 PM chopper79: CaptHindsight: I would not say I am a CL master now but I have a much better understanding of it. The ATC project was a huge undertaking, but that forced me to learn as much as a I could. I am seeing that you can use CL for many many things.
11:59 PM chopper79: pink_vampire: as Capt stated it is lader logic whihc allows you to do all sorts of cool things. It is basically a graphical representation of relay logic. connecting inputs to outputs and having the ability to do timers, counters, set, and reset. You can actually do some pretty complex things in ladder logic form my research.